Ukraine: No "Western" Interest In Investigating MH17
After all the propaganda about the downed MH17 flight, screams about alleged looting and demands of access to the site, one would have expected some serious attempts to immediately investigate the case.
But hardly any are made:
At the field in Ukraine where the exploded remnants landed, there are no guards and no recovery workers, no police officers and no investigators. Early Thursday evening, there were almost no people — just two curious 12-year-old girls looking at part of the tail of the Boeing 777.
...
“There’s no one out here,” said Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, whose monitoring mission has been on the site every day since Friday. As for the arrival of international experts, “it’s not like our door is being broken down.”
After the U.S. blustering "we have evidence" that Russia did it and then showing nothing of it - "just trust us" - the U.S. seems have lost all interests to really find out who's ammunition downed the plane. Russia had early on called for an international investigation and it was Russia alone so far which presented real evidence on the case. U.S. ships with very capable missile defense radars were in the Black Sea over the last weeks and likely have very detailed track records of every flight and missile launch up to several hundred of miles away. None of those have been made public. We can guess why.
And those "looting" claims?
There were a few new faces at the site on Thursday. Three Australian investigators worked in the field, joining three Malaysians. Before departing Thursday, the Malaysians said that they were surprised at the amount of access they had to the site and that they felt safe, Mr. Bociurkiw said.There have been widespread reports of looting, but Mr. Bociurkiw said his monitoring group, which has now spent more time at the site than any other, had not seen any. The Malaysians said they had seen valuables in the fields untouched, he noted, including a bottle of duty-free perfume, auto parts, backpacks full of belongings, a watch and some jewelry.
Those claims of looting were false just as the claims of mishandling the remains of the victims were false.
But the White House will not take back one any of those false claims. It continues its anti-Russia campaign is coming up with new claims for which again no facts are presented to back them up:
American officials, citing military intelligence, including satellite images, warned that Russia appeared to be preparing to arm the rebels with more high-powered weaponry — including tanks and armored vehicles — than it had previously supplied. In Kiev, a military spokesman said that Ukrainian troops were coming under increased fire from the Russian side of the border and that the Ukrainian military had recently shot down three Russian surveillance drones. One was used to target a Ukrainian base near the town of Amvrosiivka, which then quickly came under heavy rocket attack, the spokesman said.
Again these are just claims. Not one of the "satellite images" cited was presented.
But the main stream media fall for such nonsense and market it without inserting even the least bit of doubt.
Clearly the powers who be do want a war with Russia. A cold one for now but a hot one, destroying Europe's production capacities, would even be better for rather tepid U.S. economy.
Posted by b on July 25, 2014 at 17:17 UTC | Permalink
« previous pageI have a feeling the coalition of the grieving forces are going to get shot at. And I'm pretty sure who will get blamed for it.
Posted by: dh | Jul 26 2014 18:48 utc | 102
@yellowsnapdragon @ 97
That seems like something they might try, except the SDF aren't going to NOT shoot at them if they are in between or standing with Ukie forces.. And the govt's. of Australia the Netherlands and know this and so does uncle shylock. There is no way, even now at the height of the propaganda offensive under way that the western publics are going to countenance "boots on the ground" in another war -especially a civil war in Europe.Obama and Merkel might think they can run a Kosovo-like atrocity but Russia cannot, and will not allow that to happen. Although It may very well be that we've gone past the point where public opinion carries any weight at all with the globalist ruling class. Things aren't going to get better, they are going to get worse, whatever we do. The direction the US/EU axis, the bankers empire is the destruction of human civilization though, through nuclear war or continued environmental destruction. Short of their being stopped by the masses, there is no other possible outcome.
Posted by: Marc | Jul 26 2014 19:33 utc | 103
Putin is playing it cool so far. Australian P.M. Abbott phoned him today, and they didn't seem to have a falling out.
Putin, Abbot call for giving experts unhindered access to Boeing 777 crash site
Meanwhile, Russian Colonel Cassad writes that the junta is going to start committing terrorist acts in Donbass and blaiming them on the resistance.
Oui is right: the Dutch are crazy:
MH17: Australia and Netherlands wait on Kiev to ratify police missions
A contingency plan being worked on in the Netherlands would put a group of armed special forces troops on standby to travel to the region if anything went wrong. A source told Dutch paper De Telegraaf that if they did enter east Ukraine, they might also consider a mission to seize the separatists' main commander, Igor Strelkov.Although it is not believed that this is a serious plan, the Russian news agency Life News was reporting it as its top story on Saturday, in a sign of how delicate an operation this is. It is easy to imagine things spiralling out of control if, for example, the Dutch delegation were to be caught up in fighting in the area.
Demian
Lousy dutch, I cant even find their small state on a map and now they are going to send their cia to murder people in ukraine?! Pathetic people. But also show how west again trying to use this situation to plant spies in ukraine.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 26 2014 20:40 utc | 106
KHARKIV, Ukraine – Jan Tuinder heads military police force of 40 men. In addition another 20 forensic experts arrived last night in Kharkiv. They will be held up until Thursday, July 31. The written agreement between three nations [presumably Australia, Netherlands and Ukraine], needs to be ratified by the National Parliament which is on recess/holiday. Thursday they will resume with a closed session to vote on the mission so it can proceed to Donetsk where the hostilities are getting worse. Jan Tuinder says he will use the time for 'preparations' as a large group of experts are due to arrive.
○ Netherlands, Ukraine Discuss Deployment of Police Mission to Boeing Crash Site
These persons are at the crash site, waiting for the experts to arrive …
○ Dutch NOS correspondent David Jan Godfroid
○ Angela and George Dyczynski, Australian parents of their daughter Fatima
@Anonymous #106:
Area of Novorossiya: 53 km**2
Area of the Netherlands: 42 km**2
Russians are speculating that the flight recorders (which are in the possession of the British) and the flight control recordings (which are in the possession of the Ukie secret police) will be doctored to be cosistent with each other.
Presumably, Russia has recordings of the exchanges between Ukie flight control and MH17. I wonder what Russia will do if the "international inestigation" publicly releases evidence Russia knows to have been falsified?
One thing is for sure, if ukraine junta is behind this, the west/ukraine will never admit, so I guess it will be as in Syria/chemical.
western/ukraine "investigation" will keep the claim that rebels did it without no proof.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 26 2014 21:16 utc | 111
Seven Dutch investigators were unable to reach Donetsk due to hostilities in the region …
○ NRC News
News is fluid, Frans Timmermans says it is possible for the team to travel tomorrow, no ratification is needed. Is he aware the cabinet in Kiev resigned, is there any leadership?
Indeed, it's a madhouse here. The Dutch papers are thrilled how well Rutte and Timmermans perform as statesmen on the international stage. They have spoken with Putin and Obama! For performance they flunked.
@crone #112:
That's a decent article. It is odd that the Israeli attack on Gaza would start/intensify on the same day that MH17 was shot down. As I've remarked before, Israel was probably given a heads up about the downing. But it just occurred to me that it might not even have been USG that did that, but whatever Yukies were behind it. BTW, I think we have to assume that not everyone in the junta was in on the plot. (According to the Spanish air traffic controller, the Ukie military wasn't in ot it: the Ministry of the Interior has its own forces.)
@Oui:
Thank you so much for keeping us informed about how this is playing out in Holland. Please continue to do so.
I suppose that the hysteria should come as no surprise, given that a Dutch newspaper published those ridiculous cartoons of Muhammad. (I regularly say things like "Islam is a Christian heresy" and "it is a bad religion", but I found the publicatin of those cartoons to be a completely uncalled for and disgusting provocation.)
I lived in Rotterdam for a year, but hardly got to know the Dutch, because of the language barrier. To be honest, I found the Dutch to be pretty clannish, totally unlike the Germans, who are very open, to Americans and Europeans at least (and that include Russians). That hardly anyone understands Dutch but the Dutch is one of Holland's strengths, which is why your current reports are so invaluable.
@Demian
That's the least I could do. A hostile world were Islamophobia is sowed by the likes of Geert Wilders in support of Eretz Israel. 9/11 has been exploited to play out the neocon dream and Obama furthers the chaos.
The world was simple under George Bush, the axis of evil consisted of three nations: North Korea, Iraq and Iran. Today I can name a dozen nations the U.S. perceives as a threat. Well done guys, your military aggression reaps what was sowed. Ally Israel teetering on that same balance.
○ 'Black box findings consistent with missile blast'
(CBS News) – The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."
They are finding more evidence, though, of the sort of blast holes through the plane that an exploding missile might make. The Dutch say their full team will concentrate on this sort of specific find. Covering the vast crash site systematically would be too difficult, and security arrangements are still uncertain.
The issue is: Who's in charge? Any deal cut with the central government in Kiev has zero value in an area it doesn't control. As for the rebels who do control the countryside, they haven't been around the crash site for days.
The war between the rebels and the central Ukrainian government has been intensifying. The window for getting to the crash site to gather evidence may be closing.
Who is leaking so-called informatiom and to what propaganda purpose?
○ Poroshenko to Obama: ""We need a reliable partner and ally to help fuel our nation."
Shale gas anyone? Just call Hunter R. Biden, your local supplier.
In the SITREP at the Saker today:
"10. Information has been found implicating the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt, of being involved extensively in the planning and execution of false flag 'terrorist' operations in Ukraine to be blamed on Novorossiya. This is the same Geoffrey R. Pyatt who was extensively involved in the coup d'etat that installed the current illegal government in Ukraine. The information is not 100% confirmed at this time. Further investigations are being done concerning this information. "
Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jul 27 2014 0:46 utc | 117
Gleb Bazov, who has been providing priceless translations of videos and documents, has some detail at his site of the upcoming false flags. It will involve the massacre of civilians on a large scale.
The only antidote to the false flag is the prior-dated timestamp. Please spread these forecasts as far and wide as you can before they happen - they appear to be coming very soon.
URGENT: UPDATED – Warning of Impending Terrorist Acts by the Kiev Junta, July 26, 2014
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 27 2014 1:41 utc | 118
@yellowsnapdragon #117:
Information has been found implicating the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt, of being involved extensively in the planning and execution of false flag 'terrorist' operations in Ukraine to be blamed on Novorossiya.
I find that to be quite plausible. The MH17 false flag op was too sloppy for the CIA to have been behind it, IMO.
Evidence of involvement would be very good. Information implicating Pyatt would probably stop the whole operation in its tracks and prevent civilian deaths. Without Pyatt exposed, I doubt the attacks would be postponed because Kiev has too much to gain by drawing NATO troops into Ukraine in response. That said, I'll wait to see the details.
Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jul 27 2014 2:31 utc | 120
@yellowsnapdragon | 120
Evidence of involvement would be very good. Information implicating Pyatt would probably stop the whole operation in its tracks and prevent civilian deaths. Without Pyatt exposed, I doubt the attacks would be postponed because Kiev has too much to gain by drawing NATO troops into Ukraine in response. That said, I'll wait to see the details.
Its nearly impossible to get direct-proof evidence, while even taped conversations or emails which hint to such involvement would be dismissed and ignored by the West and their media.
Like hacked emails with UK hiring Russian-speaking Ukrainians (small World, isnt?) to do false-flag sarin attack in Syria, it was completely ignored in the West. Same with islamists caught in Turkey with sarin, on their way to Syria. One might think, what else proof one needs? Truth was ignored, false allegations remains.
Or Ukraine itself, I was very much surprised a lot of Westerners still believe all this chaos started because of "evil Russia meddling", its like confirmed Nuland taped conversations and West sponsored violent overthrow of government never happened.
Therefore short of Pyatt's public guilt admission nothing will change, and false-flag op will continue.
Posted by: Harry | Jul 27 2014 4:20 utc | 121
Agent provocateur Pryatt in April …
○ U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Confirms Anti-Semitic Pamphlets Are 'Real Deal' in Donetsk
Deception by provocateurs. Clearly a false flag operation no one heard about until used by John Kerry during today's press conference after Geneva talks. The Banderists have support in Galicia, north-west Ukraine in city of Lvov, not in pro-Russian Donetsk.
Donetsk. 07/27/2014-03:24
Comment: According to messages from Strelkov, the Ukrainians are gearing up to breach the caldron toward settlements Atrantsit and Krasniy Luch… on foot. They have lost all hardware.
Persistent attacks take place at Donetsk, Gorlovka, Stakhanov and Lugansk. Merely to deflect the combatant forces away of the caldron “Marinovka-Aleksandrovka-border of Russia”, where great Ukrainian forces are trapped. Due to harsh attacks, the Ukrainians have advanced to the fringes of Gorlovka.
Posted by: Fete | Jul 27 2014 6:06 utc | 123
@Harry - #121
Agent provocateur Pryatt initiatives (social) media …
○ Meet our man Pyatt who put together the coup in Kiev
A small stub in article …
Hromadske's biggest funding in that period came from the Embassy of the Netherlands, which gave a generous $95,168. As a departing US envoy to the Hague said in a secret cable that Wikileaks later made public.
○ Geoffrey R. Pyatt, a Senior Foreign Service officer, arrived in Kyiv on August 3, 2013
Who Is Geoffrey Pyatt? From 1992-94 and Economic Officer and Vice-Consul in Tegucigalpa, Honduras from 1990-92. Prior to joining the Foreign Service, he worked with The Inter-American Dialogue, a Washington-based think tank that brings together leading citizens of the Americas.
This just anout sums up the leaders that are/were part of the Inter-American Dialogue think tank …
Francis Fukuyama defended the Bush administration's ambitions to unilaterally attack Iraq in defiance of international law and institutions. "Europeans argue that they are trying to build a rule-based international order, and they are horrified by the Bush administration's announcement of a virtually open-ended doctrine of preemption against terrorists or states that sponsor terrorists," wrote Fukuyama in a September 2002 Washington Post op-ed. But, he argued,
"Americans are right to insist that there is no such thing as an 'international community' in the abstract, and that nation-states must ultimately look out for themselves when it comes to critical matters of security."
Sign of the times - the most left wing commentary on Ukraine and Gaza is made by the CEO of Unilever - according to Bloomberg
Unilever Chief Executive Officer Paul Polman, a Dutchman who was in India’s Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel in Mumbai during a 2008 terrorist attack, told Bloomberg TV the problems in Ukraine and elsewhere “have their roots in poverty and in exclusion.” Polman said his company, which gets about 3 percent of revenue from Russia, has no plans to pull back from the country.“We have our long-term plans in every country, including Russia, and they are not changing right now,” Polman said.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2014 7:02 utc | 125
@somebody
wow! Obama has to 'worry' about the mid-term elections this fall and Dem 'prominent' HC is already undercutting BHO with more vigorous right-wing foreign policy rhetoric for '16. Not looking back to 68 years of horrible choices [for the people, not corporate America].
John Kerry is already reaping what the White House in 2011 sowed, the U.S. Embassy personnel have been evacuated by road from Tripoli across the border under heavy armed guards, helicopters and a marine vessel off the coast.
How simple was U.S. policy under George Bush with just 3 states in the Axis of Evil. Great achievement Barack.
Sounds positive...
MOSCOW, July 27 /ITAR-TASS/. Russia has set up a group of experts to join an international probe into a Malaysian airliner crash in east Ukraine, the Russian Transport Ministry press office said on Sunday. ...
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/742464
Posted by: x | Jul 27 2014 10:26 utc | 127
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/07/27/us-retreats-post-haste-from-libya/
How many more states will they destroy before running away?
Posted by: Mina | Jul 27 2014 10:32 utc | 128
@#97 -- agreed. I assume it is largely a token effort for domestic audiences to cover for the obvious sense of impotence in cultures/societies which traditionally see themselves as the dominant 'leaders'. It is about tagging the post the way dogs do, imo. Abbott is desperately low in the polls and deployed search aircraft and ships at huge public cost around the Indian ocean long after it made any sense to do so -- all he got was some msm attention to help ratings. Not sure about the Dutch.
Posted by: x | Jul 27 2014 13:30 utc | 129
BREAKING NEWS: KIEV WANTS TO OWN CRASH SITE ASAP
From German ARD/WDR tv journalist: Demian von Osten @demianvonosten
Sprecher des nationalen Sicherheitsrates in #Kiew sagt:
Ukr. Armee will Absturzstelle erobern. #mh17
"Ukraine Army wants to capture crashsite MH-17"
○ Heavy shelling in Torez on the #MH17 site, people sheltering in basements
Posted by: Oui | Jul 27, 2014 9:36:28 AM | 130
yep, it is against the security council resolution demanding a cease fire.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2014 14:02 utc | 131
Guess, this is the reason that Kiev has to call a mobilisation:
‘Refusing to kill their own’: Over 40 Ukrainian soldiers flee to Russia — RT News
"At around 20:30 Moscow time, 41 Ukrainian soldiers left their military bases and arrived at the Ukrainian border crossing checkpoint Izvarino. They appealed to the militia there for help to with cross into the Russian territory, in connection with the fact that they do not want to fight against their own people,” Malaev said.
All of the soldiers were able to cross into Russia at the Donetsk checkpoint, the spokesperson added.
Meanwhile, a Russian hospital near the Ukrainian border has been treating wounded Ukrainian soldiers. Some of them have expressed their unwillingness to fight for the Ukrainian army, blaming mobilization laws for forcing them to do so.
And this is not the first time this happend.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 27 2014 14:23 utc | 132
@ somebody #131
yep, it is against the security council resolution demanding a cease fire.
S/RES/2166(2014)
The Security Council...Demands that all military activities, including by armed groups, be immediately ceased in the immediate area surrounding the crash site to allow for security and safety of the international investigation
The Coalition of the Grieving (COGFOR) seems to be having second thoughts.
Posted by: dh | Jul 27 2014 16:42 utc | 135
@dh - #135
Same conclusion in The Netherlands, Rutte did say his gut feeling was, like so many of his countrymen, to go in with military might. The military say that's not a wise decision …
PM 'Madman' Rutte just informed the media and in a written statement Dutch Parliament
"They can't secure the site," Abbott said. "It's kilometres long and wide [35 km²]. They could escort Australian officials and provide close protection, but this is a civil task rather than a military task and it's a terribly volatile area."
"We don't have the language skills or knowledge of the area."
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There are reports of Catastrophic Desertions in the Ukraine army. If true, this would be part of the reason for the "coalition of the grieving" troop preparations. If not true, it's still excellent propaganda.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 26 2014 18:35 utc | 101