Ukraine: No "Western" Interest In Investigating MH17
After all the propaganda about the downed MH17 flight, screams about alleged looting and demands of access to the site, one would have expected some serious attempts to immediately investigate the case.
But hardly any are made:
At the field in Ukraine where the exploded remnants landed, there are no guards and no recovery workers, no police officers and no investigators. Early Thursday evening, there were almost no people — just two curious 12-year-old girls looking at part of the tail of the Boeing 777.
...
“There’s no one out here,” said Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, whose monitoring mission has been on the site every day since Friday. As for the arrival of international experts, “it’s not like our door is being broken down.”
After the U.S. blustering "we have evidence" that Russia did it and then showing nothing of it - "just trust us" - the U.S. seems have lost all interests to really find out who's ammunition downed the plane. Russia had early on called for an international investigation and it was Russia alone so far which presented real evidence on the case. U.S. ships with very capable missile defense radars were in the Black Sea over the last weeks and likely have very detailed track records of every flight and missile launch up to several hundred of miles away. None of those have been made public. We can guess why.
And those "looting" claims?
There were a few new faces at the site on Thursday. Three Australian investigators worked in the field, joining three Malaysians. Before departing Thursday, the Malaysians said that they were surprised at the amount of access they had to the site and that they felt safe, Mr. Bociurkiw said.There have been widespread reports of looting, but Mr. Bociurkiw said his monitoring group, which has now spent more time at the site than any other, had not seen any. The Malaysians said they had seen valuables in the fields untouched, he noted, including a bottle of duty-free perfume, auto parts, backpacks full of belongings, a watch and some jewelry.
Those claims of looting were false just as the claims of mishandling the remains of the victims were false.
But the White House will not take back one any of those false claims. It continues its anti-Russia campaign is coming up with new claims for which again no facts are presented to back them up:
American officials, citing military intelligence, including satellite images, warned that Russia appeared to be preparing to arm the rebels with more high-powered weaponry — including tanks and armored vehicles — than it had previously supplied. In Kiev, a military spokesman said that Ukrainian troops were coming under increased fire from the Russian side of the border and that the Ukrainian military had recently shot down three Russian surveillance drones. One was used to target a Ukrainian base near the town of Amvrosiivka, which then quickly came under heavy rocket attack, the spokesman said.
Again these are just claims. Not one of the "satellite images" cited was presented.
But the main stream media fall for such nonsense and market it without inserting even the least bit of doubt.
Clearly the powers who be do want a war with Russia. A cold one for now but a hot one, destroying Europe's production capacities, would even be better for rather tepid U.S. economy.
Posted by b on July 25, 2014 at 17:17 UTC | Permalink
next page »thanks b.. yes this seems to be the way the western media operates. be the vehicle for whatever some us or western official has to say without substance( just infer substance) and then when it looks like the plane was shoot down during some ongoing military exercise with ukraine and the usa/nato - make like it is over and nothing happened as it was the wrong side responsible for the death of these innocent people.. we are being lied to regularly, but the thing i find most discouraging is this.. someone, or a number of people know what happened here and they ain't saying as it implicates them..
Posted by: james | Jul 25 2014 17:39 utc | 2
If the byline for all this Yankee-inspired anti-Putin hokum were allowed to just write itself from the lexicon of public opinion, it would look something like this...
New American Century descends into Dog Day Afternoon farce.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 25 2014 17:48 utc | 3
http://whatistheconstitution.org/ww3-awacs-in-nato-drill-nearby-mh17-777/
http://www.n2yo.com/news/?n=2365
click on more and it takes on to another site with more info. The satellite in the second story was over the sight when the plane went down according a press release from the Russian AF.
Yep, Amerikas neo-cons trying to drum another war to finish off Main Street people all around the world money wise.
Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 25 2014 17:49 utc | 4
This a pattern that we've been frozen in since April. Kiev/U.S. make some outlandish claim that is dutifully waved through to the front page of the Western press. This in order to stampede Europe into applying sector-wide sanctions. Merkel makes noises that real stinging stuff is coming down the pike that will make Putin's oligarchs feel real pain. And then nothing ever materials. Hit repeat.
The problem is the clocking is ticking in Kiev. Eventually the IMF diktats will have to be put into effect. Then the troops will have to be brought back from Novorossiya to police the Maidan. That's why Kiev/U.S. is upping the ante with MH17 and now stories that the Pentagon is dusting off its war plans for Russia.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jul 25 2014 18:02 utc | 5
Pentagon, Jul 25, 2014
Dempsey: Russian Attacks Change Europe’s Security Landscape
ASPEN, Colo., July 25, 2014 – Russia’s decision to fire artillery from within Russia onto Ukrainian military positions transforms the security environment throughout Eastern Europe, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said here yesterday.
“You’ve got a Russian government that has made the conscious decision to use its military force inside of another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives -- first time, I think, probably, since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey said at the Aspen Security Forum.
State, Jul 24, 2014
Marie Harf
Deputy Spokesperson
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
MS. HARF: We .... have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions. This is just some pieces of info I’ve been able to get from our intelligence friends for you. I can’t tell you what the information is based on.
Sydney Herald, Jul 25, 2014
MH17: Five-nation 'coalition of the grieving' set to supply forces to secure crash site
A five-nation "coalition of the grieving" is expected to supply the forces to secure the 50-square-kilometre crash site of Malaysian Airlines' downed MH17. The multinational force is expected to be led by the Dutch, who lost 193 nationals in the bringing down of the plane, while Australia could serve in the deputy role.
Malaysia, Germany and Britain are the other three nations that are expected to contribute to the security force, with Malaysia having lost 43 people in the tragedy. Security forces from the Netherlands and Australia worked closely together for years in Oruzgan province, Afghanistan.
from Netherlands:
11 Air Manoevre Brigade is an unique entity within the Dutch armed forces. It is a cooperation bond of the Tactical Helicopter Group of the Royal Airforce and 11 Airmobile Brigade (Air Assault) of the Royal Army. These two entities can operate separately, but preferably together. Their fully integrated operations form a force multiplier (in that case one add one is not two, but three).
The last years much work has been done to fully integrate operations of 11 Airmobile Brigade (Air Assault) and the Tactical Helicopter Group into an well oiled machine.
Well the "government" of Ukraine has broken up, and unsurprisingly not a word of it has been mentioned in the corporate press. Those of the "alt" media who have commented suggest our man yats was crestfallen that the slate of IMF extortion/theft provisions were not voted through. Svoboda and Right sector are in this to kill the "Moskals" and for no other reasons. They have been kenneled and now they are expected to just rubber stamp the "Jew banker" plot to wring everything they can out of the hides of the folk? Summer is barely half over and its shaping up the way any sane person might have expected it to. I have to think that, repulsive as he is "Yats" must be deeply troubled by the MH17 shoot down, the fact that it hasn't been hung around the neck of "Putin" yet and welcomed the opportunity to step out the way ?( maybe all the way to Switzerland with other notable Ukrainian oligarch-criminals?)
Posted by: Marc | Jul 25 2014 18:11 utc | 7
IMO, that the US is changing the subject away from MH17 likely means that the US knows (i.e. has hard evidence of) who did the shooting, and it wasn't the Donbass rebels or Russia. When the truth finally comes out, the US will say "Who cares about MH17? Look at all the other evil things the Russkies are doing!" And if that fails, they'll find something else to distract the rubes. "Look over there! Ebola!"
Posted by: shargash | Jul 25 2014 18:27 utc | 8
I had to hit the link that Don Bacon @ 6 supplied to make sure that the "Coalition of the Grieving" wasn't an Onion story. Unbelievable. There is absolutely, as b's excerpt of the Sabrina Tavernise NYT story documents, nothing that needs to be secured. This is all a ruse to put a Western military footprint in Novorossiya. Because despite what the junta says they cannot conquer the Donbass. What is amazing is how uniformly the lie is repeated that the crash site is being intentionally and malignantly corrupted by Russia. Joe Goebbels would blush.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jul 25 2014 18:34 utc | 9
@ shargash. Yes, that's what I suspect. Well, I actually suspect that false flag okeydoke is beginning to fray, so it's on to the next thing.
Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jul 25 2014 18:35 utc | 10
@8 Yes, domestically this will be the case, but regardless of intentions, this crisis was used by the U.S. government to win contracts for the MIC in the wake of Snowden and the domestic opposition to new spending. The U.S. won't even be in contention for business world wide after this fiasco.
Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Jul 25 2014 18:42 utc | 11
The US media has really stepped up its lying over the events in Ukraine, and to a level it seems to me far advanced of how it pushed even the so-called Arab Spring. "Oh what a tangled web we weave" certainly is the case here. and it will be that much more difficult for the US to extract itself when the Ukraine Crisis finally reaches it climax...
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 25 2014 19:10 utc | 13
The US media has really stepped up its lying over the events in Ukraine, and to a level it seems to me far advanced of how it pushed even the so-called Arab Spring. "Oh what a tangled web we weave" certainly is the case here. and it will be that much more difficult for the US to extract itself when the Ukraine Crisis finally reaches it climax...
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 25 2014 19:10 utc | 14
@8 Agree. Also, US did an immediate walk back of the *Russia did it* meme just after the Russian intel was released. And the US never actually acknowledged the fact that Russia had a presser to releas evidence.
Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jul 25 2014 19:11 utc | 15
...as it most certainly will as it did in Syria - and the muppet elite of the USA finally have to make the choice between standing down and shutting up and doing the right thing, or starting World War Three.
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 25 2014 19:13 utc | 16
@16 guest77
Never underestimate the craven war ambitions of the neo-libercons.
Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jul 25 2014 19:19 utc | 17
@ 7 Maybe Yatsenyuk has a conscience. Or he's the first to admit that the lie won't hold and is distancing himself from Parubiy and the boys who shot the plane down.
Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jul 25 2014 20:00 utc | 18
Don Bacon #6. What was interesting about the Harf press conference where she announced that Russia was shelling Ukrainian positions in Donbas was the reaction of the reporters. They grilled her awhile for the evidence. Then they began mocking her. One even asked if she would at least give them a youtube link supporting the story. This question was a snide reference to the youtube link she provided in an earlier press conference that showed the rebels with a SA6 battery. She started to get pissed by the end of these questions.
The reporters working these stories know they are being fed bullshit. Their papers leave that part out.
Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 25 2014 20:08 utc | 19
Here are some more clues from Pepe Escobar courtesy of the Saker blog. The fingerprints of Mossad, known for past horrendous misdeed, might be appearing -
"The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine suggests a shape charge from an air-to-air missile – and not a Buk; that’s consistent with the Russian Ministry of Defense presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian SU-25 shadowing MH17. Increasingly, the Buk scenario – hysterically peddled by the Empire of Chaos – is being discarded. Not to mention, again, that not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used."
Way beyond the established fact of a Ukrainian SU-25 trailing MH17, plenty of unanswered questions remain, some involving a murky security procedure at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport – where security is operated by ICTS, an Israeli company based in The Netherlands and founded by former officers from the Israeli Shin Bet intel agency. And then there is the unexplained presence of “foreign” advisors in Kiev’s control tower.
Posted by: curious | Jul 25 2014 20:26 utc | 20
As b says,if we had ships in the Black Sea,they most definitely know from where and what and this delay means they've got squat.Right now,some SD turd is running some subterfuge or lie up the flagpole and is waiting for the morons salute.
And please,I know Yankee is a euphemism for American,but these people aint American,they are ivy league miseducated fools,and Zion is running our show.
Gallup poll on Palestinian and Israel;The better educated,the more they were for Israel.Unbelievable,the brainwashing.
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 25 2014 20:28 utc | 21
I think the chance that Yats is suddenly getting a conscience is pretty remote, especially seeing that he declared his willingness to be the suicide Prime Minister of the "Most Unpopular Government" Ukraine has ever had, and was willling to slither into the government over the corpses of 100 Ukrainian citizens.
Now - is he suddenly getting scared knowing that the Maidan Nazi are behind him, ready to turn him into a human Challah bread, Russia is ahead of him preparing the indictment and gallows, and the US is far far far away and known for letting their friends twist in the wind the moment they've achieved whatever selfish objective they sought? Knowing the crimes he'll eventually have to answer for - on top of "premeditated murder of 100 Ukrainian citizens on Kiev" and "Human Rights abuses throughout the South East" now includes the downing of an airliner full of European nationals?
That's far more likely, I think ;)
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 25 2014 20:46 utc | 22
The Dutch Have Gone Mad [More Mad]
BREAKING NEWS: Mayor of Dutch Town threatens Putin's daughter because of MH-17.
One sees a slow process of nations moving towards another war, is this what my dad felt when he undertook an adventurous bike ride through Rhineland, passed through Mannheim, Strasburg and Freiburg into Basel Switzerland in 1935. He wasn't at ease from his analysis of radio broadcasts. Just like my interest to listen and watch the propaganda from all sides, I see my dad late at night with his ear to a Philips short-wave radio and dial from one station to the next. He listened to all major capitals in the western world.
At the pace the western powers have utilised military power instead of succesful diplomacy, the world has become a dangerous place. I believe another major war is on the horizon as the hawks are clearly in a majority. Just now learned of another example of a person of leadership, jumps the shark and has gone mad!
This is totally unacceptable, the daughter of Putin has lived a secluded life near Leiden and in no way deserves to be threatened. This is not fitting in any society, certainly not in The Netherlands which claims to be tolerant to persons of all political views, faith and gender. The country of Islamophobe Geert Wilders has changed forever. Mark Rutte, the petty PM of the liberal conservative VVD party has grown biceps the last week agitating Putin and listening to instructions from the White House. Plenty of rhetoric, he lacks in deeds promised to search for bodies at the crashsite near Donetsk. Today he even apologised for keeping parliament in the dark of his plans to send armed guards/forces into rebel area of Ukraine. Unbelievable what a bunch of crap.
Unbelievable, a “Coalition of Grieving” is going to secure the crash site. This can only be accomplished by force. The Washington Times reported that America was sending military advisors to Ukraine. The US government charges that Russia is firing artillery in Ukraine. “Yats” resigns. The Cauldron of War is boiling over. It is the Guns of August all over again. The war between NATO and the Russian Federation is about to get hot.
The human tragedy is that the ruling elite who are driving the globalization of war ignore history that there has never been a shooting war between two nuclear powers because it will inevitably to result in a nuclear exchange. Unlike 100 years ago, this world war will kill the human race.
There is absolutely no indication of negotiations to secure the crash site, end the war or back down from the brink of destruction.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Jul 25 2014 20:51 utc | 24
But this is just par for the course in the war criminal U.S.
Investigate an event that has major geopolitical implications especially as the US itself is the one promulgating a horseshit narrative? Fuck it.
On the flip side:
Here's how the US police "investigate" events involving their own citizens.
300 people blown out of the sky most likely by a fascist junta of its own creation? Boring.
1 non-violent black man minding his own business on the street? Choke the fucker to death in broad daylight surrounded by a crowd.
Gee, who could have possibly taught US police to be such inhuman monsters?
Oh, that's right, they've regularly been going to Israel to be trained by the "best".
Why, from the looks of things, American citizens won't have to wait too long for the police to start "policing" - read: destroying - suspect neighborhoods for "terrorists" - read: poor, minorities - who are "hiding and plotting" - read: barely surviving - throughout urban American.
Operation Protective Chokehold, anyone?
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 25 2014 21:00 utc | 25
Despite the conclusion by US intelligence that there is no evidence of Russian involvement in the destruction of the Malaysian airliner and all lives onboard, Washington is escalating the crisis and shepherding it toward war.
Twenty-two US senators have introduced into the 113th Congress, Second Session, a bill, S.2277, “To prevent further Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign states in Europe and Eurasia, and for other purposes.” https://beta.congress.gov/113/bills/s2277/BILLS-113s2277is.pdf The bill is before the Committee on Foreign Relations.
Note that prior to any evidence of any Russian aggression, there are already 22 senators lined up in behalf of preventing further Russian aggression.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 25 2014 21:06 utc | 26
More from the Craig story:
Title III deals with military and intelligence assistance for Ukraine, putting Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova on a NATO track, expediting US natural gas exports in order to erase European and Eurasian energy dependence on Russia, preventing recognition of Crimea as again a part of Russia, expanding broadcasting (propaganda) into Russian areas, and again “support for democracy and civil society organizations in countries of the former Soviet Union,” which means to use money to subvert the Russian federation.
They really seem to be on the warpath. :-((
Posted by: Fran | Jul 25 2014 21:08 utc | 27
I have been wondering lately, is there still anything left of the UN. It seems that the US is deciding everything unilaterly, no involvement of UN in anything and the EU seems to go along with this. The UN isn't even used as a cover up anymore - 'they' don't even try to hide their intentions anymore.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 25 2014 21:12 utc | 28
@23
Someone from the US elite better get on the horn right quick.
Do you know how many of their fucking war criminal progeny are out galavanting around the globe?
So the children of US/NATO war criminals are fair game, now, too? Oh well.
Seriously, they all have gone mad.
The neoliberal West has gone from fascist technocracy to kakistocractical maniacracy in the span of a few short years.
What a breath of fresh air.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 25 2014 21:12 utc | 29
@27
The 60 PAGE bill that PCR reference's is ALSO par for the US false-flag course as the PATRIOT Act similarly appeared out of fucking nowhere only days after 9/11 and it just happened to have all sorts of detailed and copious "goodies" buried deep within it.
Yup, I sure bet the retards in the US Congress were the authors of that shit. (roll eyes)
This bill's been sitting around in some think tank drawer from WAAYYYYY BEFORE Maidan just waiting to see the light of day. If it hadn't been MH17 something else would have just "happened" to foster its "appearance" in Congress...oh and also have given the "Coalition of the Grieving" something to else to weep about. Again, as embarrassing as they are murderous.
Burn in hell all of you fucking war criminal subhuman scum.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 25 2014 21:28 utc | 30
I'm suddenly starting to worry about another false flag. Maybe the crash scene investigators get shot up by the NDF? That could draw NATO in.
Posted by: Kraken | Jul 25 2014 21:47 utc | 31
Two other points:
The Australians sponsored the UN Security Council resolution Monday, which demands a full independent investigation of the plane shoot-down. The Australians are claiming that the insertion of international military and police to the crash site is authorized by this resolution.
Dempsey announced today a major NATO force projection into Poland, and he did so at a conference of Defence Industry contractors. I'm sure his clients were appreciative.
Posted by: jayc | Jul 25 2014 21:59 utc | 32
3
New American Century descends into Dog Day Afternoon farce,
with GMO Kibble Entre and Full Spectrum Dominance main course,
under the Reign of the 'Given Wisdom' Pharisaic Scientocracy,
and with Seven Generations of Interest-Only Perpetual Debt
We are all Gazans now...
Posted by: chip nikh | Jul 25 2014 22:42 utc | 33
If I were advising the Putin administration I would be arguing strenuously that NOW is the time (not maybe next month )to invest in buying some Svoboda, Jobbik "patriots" to blow things up in the western regions. The, clearly -seen-its-better-days US foreign policy apparatus wouldn't agree to a soft breakup ie., federalization? ? ? Then smash those borderlands into about 10 pieces and let Europe divide them up however they will... THAT would knock uncle Shylock right out of the picture.
Posted by: Marc | Jul 25 2014 22:47 utc | 34
Company In Which Joe Biden's Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-25/company-which-joe-bidens-son-director-prepares-drill-shale-gas-east-ukraine
Just who is behind Burisma Holdings - why none other than our favorite scumbag zionist oligarch Kolomoisky. Must pay for the coup after all.Who just happens to be behind this whole fucking thing, icluding MH17.
http://antac.org.ua/en/2012/08/kings-of-ukrainian-gas/
The owners of Ukrnaftoburinnya, Pari, and Esko-Pivnich were finally confirmed through first-hand sources. Oleh Kanivets worked as CEO of Ukrnaftoburinnya for two years. He confirmed who actually controlled the above-mentioned companies to “Slidstvo.Info”.
- The Privat Group is the immediate owner.
Thus, Ihor Kolomoisky managed to seize the largest reserves of natural gas in Ukraine.
Posted by: pantaraxia | Jul 25 2014 22:49 utc | 35
Perhaps someone in the DOD should send a strongly worded memo to the State Dept and Administration politely reminding them that Russia still has HUNDREDS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS pointed at the US. Since that point has obviously escaped thier notice.
Perhaps a hot war isn't such a good idea, no?
Posted by: Thepanzer | Jul 25 2014 23:08 utc | 36
7
Arseniy Yatsenyuk is just a Zionist chess piece, like Michael Chertoff.
Like Ahmed Chalabi, although Chalabi is a titan compared to Yatsenyuk,
and Chertoff is just the smegma on Yatsenyuk's schmeckel, nevertheless,
look at where Cherthoff and Chalabi are today. Then we can infer that
we'll be seeing more of Yatsenyuk in the future, free of any war-crimes
tribunals, (outside of Kuala Lumpur, that is) and fat with $Bs from MIC.
Yatsenyuk is after all a parliamentarian, and so he must step down under
parliamentary rules for failing to forge a coalition. He's not gone yet.
This is the 'crisis exhaustion' phase of 'Shekhinah (Shock and Awe)',
the part of the Swallowing Feast where the Great Python waits for its
victim to exhale, ...then tightens, exhale, tightens, exhale, tightens.
Ukraine is gone, I'm so sorry, and all those within her.
The Glory of Shekhinah (Shock and Awe)-
"Now when Solomon had finished praying, fire came down from heaven and
consumed the burnt offering of MH17, and all the human sacrifices to
their Aramaic Goat G-d."
Maybe you can understand the symbolism of an upsidedown 'My Pet Goat'?
There is also a Talmudic meaning to 17, and 7-17, the day the plane
was shot down, if you want to get into cabalistic numerology, like
Romans 9-11 discusses the salvation of Israel: Where although there
has never been a time when the whole nation has believed in G-d, His
Word, His prophets, His promises, yet the invisible nation of Israel,
a true Israel, that elect people, that holy remnant, which is spoken
of in the Old Testament, and to which alone the decree of election
refers to as 'The Chosen', are promised rule over the world.
R9-11: The Chosen shall rule with an iron rod (and helicopter gun ships).
R7-17: Now then it is no more I that do it, but Satan that dwelleth in me.
Posted by: chip nikh | Jul 25 2014 23:34 utc | 37
Someone speaking Russian? Apparently this BBC report has been deleted from the news site.
Evening of July 23 bloggers drew attention to the fact that the material BBC journalist Olga Ivshyna dedicated Boeing 777 crash Malaysia Airlines in Ukraine, suddenly disappeared from the site.
OT From the Intercept... The NSA’s New Partner in Spying: Saudi Arabia’s Brutal State Police And Emptywheel wrote... NSA Got Into Bed with the Saudis Just Before Our Technical Cooperation Agreement Expanded
With actual NSA docs...!
Graham Philips has been abducted by Uhrainian forces. His facebook account has been hacked, does any of the western media colleagues write about this correspondent and his life is in dabger?
A journalist released from the ANNA news agency, who was captured along with RT contributor Graham Phillips, told RT that they were abducted by the Ukrainian army and tortured and beaten. Phillips’ fate remains unknown. The RT stringer was among 4 people taken hostage in besieged Ukraine’s Donetsk – report
This idiot Dempsey, sounds as though he's talking into a mirror:
“At a time when some folks could convince themselves that Putin would be looking for a reason to de-escalate, he’s actually taken a decision to escalate,” Dempsey said. “Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”
or:
“At a time when some folks could convince themselves that the US and NATO would be looking for a reason to de-escalate, they've actually taken a decision to escalate,” Dempsey said. “The US may actually light a fire that they lose control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these American activities.”
Can anyone deny that the second would be far more accurate? Playing with fire? How many have died in the catastrophic arsons the US has left across the Middle East? A million? How about in Georgia - where the US convinced a poor country of 4.5 million to spend its budget on a military aggression against its giant neighbor? And now how many will die in Ukraine for the same reasons?
If you can track historical eras by seeing the same players make the same moves, then clearly we are still in the era started by the CIA in 1948 in Italy, an era where the United States thinks it can use its power to pervert the national wills of peoples, and thrust them into horrifically bloody warfare so as too...save the world from communism/save the world from ethnic conflicts/save the world from narcotraffickers/save the world from saddam hussein/save the world from terrorism/save the world from saddam hussein/save the world from dictators/save the world from Putin? The difference is, the world has had it.
How long does the US think they can play with this script and win? And are they now so perfectly deluded, that they can see in others only their own nefarious actions?
I think Gen. Dempsey just became the poster-child for neurotic projection. I do hope that the brave Russian people give him the treatment he deserves.
And then this crap:
I think that the Russian military is probably reluctant -- -- you know, this is risky for me to say this, and 10 of them could end up in a gulag tomorrow -- but I think that the Russian military and its leaders that I know are probably somewhat reluctant participants in this form of warfare,” he said.
Yuk yuk... the Gulag? I'm starting to realize that this "Aspen Security Conference" is a chance to fill in the ultra-rich nitwits in the US on what the majority of their (ever dwindling) tax bill goes for. Replete with all the stupid propaganda trappings, bad jokes, half-truths, and other flag-wavy bullshit designed to convince the super-rich that they should be very very careful to only complain about the quarter of their tax bill that goes to support students, poor people and the elderly - and definitely not complain about the part that is going to fight "Putin"!
Anyway, Gen. Dempsey - "probably somewhat, of the ones I know" isn't the most sure-footed and convincing appraisal I've ever heard, but it might good enough for the super-wealthy dicks who are desperate to get out of your boring conference and back to the comforts of their other summer home. Or maybe the super-rich are on to you military knickle-draggers, you whose highest aim seems to be reenact the cold war as a nuclear war, and these guys are just ducking out and buzzing their accountants - desperately trying figure out how to move to Canada and bounce out on the rest of their US taxes (you'll be waving wooden sticks at the Russians then, Dempsey).
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 25 2014 23:54 utc | 42
Its clear that Yats the Rat in a fit of self-indulgent petulance, but the circumstances surrounding the resignation sound "http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/25/372758/ukraines-pm-resigns-after-main-parl-collation-collapses/">fairly profound:
This forced Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenuyk to resign immediately as he lashed out at lawmakers for failing to pass laws on energy and on increasing armed forces budget.
A rejection of both the neo-liberal agenda AND the bloody military campaign? Or am I being too optimistic?
(also, seeing these Ukrainian MPs in their folk get-up is so corny. Do they really dress like this? Or is dressing like a 18th Century kulak supposed to indicate just how "Ukrainian" you are?)
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 26 2014 0:05 utc | 44
Oops: "Its clear that Yats the Rat quitin a fit of self-indulgent petulance"
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 26 2014 0:05 utc | 45
@22 guest77. that sounds more likely. i agree.
@43 colinjames. thanks for the link.
Posted by: james | Jul 26 2014 0:28 utc | 46
@pantaraxia - #35 :: I had already done some digging ...
Deadly Mix In Ukraine Politics and Corruption [extended info in this article in which I have added links to all references – Oui]
Sounds quite familiar, the scavengers after the fall of the Soviet Union have now landed in the Ukraine, the American way!
Devon Archer, a business partner of Hunter Biden's, also joined the Burisma board claiming it was like 'Exxon in the old days'. He was akso a Democratic bundler and former adviser to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign [Contributed over $100,000 – Sitaro Group]. Both Archer and Hunter Biden have worked as business partners with Kerry’s son-in-law, Christopher Heinz.
David Leiter, a former Senate chief of staff to Secretary of State John Kerry, signed on to work as a lobbyist for Burisma on May 20, 2014, about a week after Biden announced he was joining the company, according to lobbying disclosures filed this month. [Contributed over $100,000 to Kerry's campaign in 2004]
○ Ukrainian Employer of Joe Biden’s Son Hires a D.C. Lobbyist
And here's why there is no public outrage in Malaysia.
(Counterpunch):
"And what about Malaysia and Indonesia? Indonesia lost 12 people on that ill-fated flight.
Most of the Southeast Asian countries are historically “client” states of the West, with hardly any independent, non-corporate media. Indonesia has been exactly that since the 1965 ‘events’. Malaysia, pushing for an independent course under Dr. Mahathir’s rule, is presently being lured by the US, which is trying to establish military bases there, or to at least gain access to existing Malaysian ones.
Suddenly, a great amount of US funding has been unleashed, to win over Malaysian intellectuals, some of the most shamefully subservient in the region. Several have already began departing for conferences, cultural exchanges and writer’s retreats, to destinations all over the United States, all expenses paid.
In Kuala Lumpur, there was deadly silence after the downing of MH17. Not one writer or filmmaker that I know and contacted wanted to go on record. One mistaken word and the entire rosy dream of Western ‘funding’ would go up in flames. . . ."
Posted by: x | Jul 26 2014 0:49 utc | 48
@ guest @ 44
"Overly Optimistic" ? I don't know..Yats is the repugnant end product of a fortune spent by the US tax payer for cultural/economic/Ideological indoctrination in the areas of its "national interest" ? Its entirely possible that Yats really believes the libertyfreedomdemocraticfreemarkets bullshit..Why not ? Plenty of Americans still believe in that nonsense. Maybe after getting a close up look at the truth from inside of the operation, on the shitty, Ukrainian end of the stick, he's not up to playing along. Not when the game gets very ugly and nasty - ugly as in shooting down a plane full of innocent bystanders to blame your opponents to get your way.
Posted by: Marc | Jul 26 2014 1:34 utc | 49
Oui @41 From RT... 'Because I work for RT': Graham Phillips deported from Ukraine
I'm not sure what's up with Dempsey. I'm pretty sure that he has more sense than to believe what he said about Russia. My guess is that that was for domestic consumption, to show the US crazies that USG is not giving up, despite its propaganda case concerning MH17 having collapsed.
Some Anglophone indie media are saying that downing MH17 let the junta gain the advantage militarily, but I don't get that impression from the Colonel Cassad (current, Russian) blog.
It's pretty hard for me to believe that NATO countries would actually send troops to the crash site in Novorossiya to "secure" it. Russia would have every right to consider that an act of war, and to act accordingly.
It is odd that there is such anti-Russian hysteria in Holland at the moment, as Oui has observed. Could this be the fever breaking? With the US backing off on its accusations against Russia regarding MH17, it becomes pretty obvious that the whole US/Ukie story about MH17 was a lie. With a lie as big as that, it's not too much of a jump to conclude that the idea that Atlanticism is good for Europe is also nothing but a big lie. When people who have built their careers on promoting that lie see that it has been exposed, I suppose it is to be expected that their initial response is to reaffirm it more hysterically than they have ever done before.
@ guest 77 #42
General Dempsey was okay on Syria, countering Kerry's demand to bomb that country. But now that he's been invited to Aspen Dempsey, and coming from the same West Point class as the pretentious Generals Petraeus and Alexander, has foolishly convinced himself that he knows something about politics, although in the military for forty years he knows almost nothing about nearly everything. But he believes somehow that he is qualified to expound on the current Russian president. Of course he isn't qualified, he especially knows nothing about Russia, and gives that ignorance away by contending things that he knows, or should know, are untrue.
This wouldn't be a problem except that the US has a stupid president who listens to generals, unlike when Harry Truman served.
"It's the fellows who go to West Point and are trained to think they're gods in uniform that I plan to take apart".--Harry S Truman -- and he did (General MacArthur)
I'm convinced at this point that it was Ukie Jet Fighters that Killed MH17 . The US from the almost before the doomed plane hit the ground has been hysterically insisting that it was a SAM missile battery that did it, without any evidence at all. There are the Russian military radar recordings of the Ukie fighters, one of which entered what appeared to be a common attack pattern _ a near vertical climb toward the 777 from underneath it - just like a shark hunting a seal. The there is Petro Dollarshenko's initial accusations (obviously before PR had been coordinated) that it was "Russian fighter planes" that did it. In a briefing same day Strelkov Remarked it was Ukie fighters that did it. There are (allegedly) hundreds of eyewitnesses on the ground that saw it happen - they have been silenced/ignored. ..It was an air to air shoot down. The Ukrainian govt. and their Washington overseers are responsible.
Posted by: Marc | Jul 26 2014 2:35 utc | 53
Don @52 "It's the fellows who go to West Point and are trained to think they're gods in uniform that I plan to take apart".--Harry S Truman -- and he did (General MacArthur)
I've dealt with about a dozen West Point grads in my 20 yrs of service, and everyone of them were pompous pricks...!
@Marc: that's an interesting take, it is hard to know what a character like this thinks - a Pinochet, a Porfirio Lobo, a Pedro Carmona. Are they true believers? Pathetic sycophants? Power hungry-fiends? Only time will tell... (Unless of course you got ahold of their Top Secret CIA personality profiles. Then it would all be there in black and white!)
@Demian: It was certainly for domestic consumption. My feeling is that everything about this is to give the US military a big foe to fight, a foe that will keep those trillions coming...
@Don: Another General dragged into the "rock-star" mentality? it must be a blast, to come up an Irish kid with immigrant grandparents and suddenly find yourself with the super-rich elite hanging at your every word - I sure hope his spread in Rolling Stone (or, perhaps, the emails sent around by his lover) are a little less revealing.... If he thinks the war in Syria would have been too much to handle, what exactly does he consider a war right on Russia's border? I have no evidence of this except I think it is ingrained in American Thinking: I'm sure he thinks that "Civilized Europe" is a different game from "those Violent Middle Easterners". That things in the Ukraine could not possible get as hot as things got in Syria. And I think he'd be wrong. He ought to be prepared for a real resistance, and real push back from the people in the East, and Russia too. After all, the Middle East for Russia has always been a place they pushed for their interests, but now we're talking about places that, 30 years ago - would be the American equivalent of Pittsburgh and Western Pennsylvania. Does he really think there are Russian generals who are pissing their pants over a USA that wouldn't even push their (claimed, I don't think they were real one bit) interests in Syria?
I respect Harry Truman, but he found himself up against forces far, far bigger than himself, that he simply he could not control. Despite his best efforts, he lost against Taft-Hartley, the CIA, and, indeed, those gods in uniform whom he never took apart. Do you think that's fair or no?
He fought hard enough (kept it in the people's consciousness well enough) that even Eisenhower - who was very aggressive internationally (Guatemala, Congo, Iran) and certainly a virulent anti-Communist - was still enough of a forward thinker that he warned against the Military Industrial Complex. And then we get to Kennedy that those forces whom Truman could not control finally won - even if "victory" meant giving into the ultimate anti-democratic measures (a cold blooded murder on a sunny Dallas Friday). This was the death of the "international" spirit of the FDR administration. The death of the spirit in America that, probably, would have stopped the Vietnam War....and because of that, every war fought since to "get over Viet Nam".
And I suspect that Obama is precisely the other end of that link of chains - not a president, striving strongly against the worst instincts of worst power sectors of his country, but a president who enables and reinforces those worst instincts. Obama will certainly go down in history as the president who launched the most aggressive string of covert action campaigns in history (assuming trends continue, and Russia and China are able to put a halt to this nefarious trend). Though perhaps that's an improvement of the naked violence (no reference to his shower self-portraits, I promise) of George W. Bush.
Glad to see you back, Don. You're one of the reasons (along with bevin) I got the nerve to talk here. Not that you should suffer the blame for that ;)
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 26 2014 3:18 utc | 56
Russian mea culpa
The 'only' independent paper in Russia Новая Газета begs forgiveness from The Netherlands for downing MH-17 on frontpage in chocolade letter headline.
From article in Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant.
Donetsk. 07/25/2014-23:20
Comment: Nothing was from Strelkov today. Journalist A. Barkov posted summary of today:
Ukrainian breakthroughs this night in the city were neutralized by combatants.
Combat continues near Russia’s border in settlement Marinovka. The trap was shut few days ago. In the next phase, the combatants liquidate the caldron near the border with Russia from Marinovka trough Aleksandrovka. Lots of armored equipment is there in the caldron – estimated are 120 self-propelled artillery units, more than 100 armored carriers, also a lot of infantry.
The opponent attempts to unblock the caldron Marinovka-Aleksandrovka. From the other hand, the Ukrainian military attacks Donetsk from north in the area of airport to divert combatant forces from the caldron.
In the morning of July 25, 9 a.m. (Moscow time) the city (Donetsk) is sunny and calm.
Posted by: Fete | Jul 26 2014 3:58 utc | 58
@Oui #57:
That is too funny. I hadn't even heard of that newspaper. It no doubt represents the notorious "fifth column" of which Alexander Dugin and others speak.
As I've probably said before, my first language is Russian. Still, since I've had relatively little occasion to speak Russian other than with my parents, and no formal education in Russian other than what amounted to Bible class, my Russian is limited, although fluent.
That said, I can read all the major Russian news Web sites and blogs, and even understand Russian internet snark, without any problems. However, I can barely make heads or tales out of what appears in Новая Газета: it is as if they are writing from another planet. The best way I can find to describe it is that Новая Газета is like Commander Powell from Dark Star.
Yats was furious also that parliament wouldn't rubberstamp cash for the war. The two parties bailed from the coalition at the behest of Poroshenko, so they could call another election. Who knows what funny business they'll be up to in their efforts to get rid of recalcitrant MPs. Perhaps Vickie Nuland will give them a hand.
I'm shocked at how compliant the Europeans have been. Obama must have put it to them that they had to choose... US or the evil Russkis. Who or what will be Archduke Franz Ferdinand this time? How better to celebrate the centenary?
Posted by: chuckvw | Jul 26 2014 5:34 utc | 60
@chuckvw #50:
I'm shocked at how compliant the Europeans have been.
My hope is that the Europeans are now going through a learning process. That goes both for the "common people" and for elites.
Demian, I must say, that I am often amazed how critical the "common people" are againt the US. Also if you read the comments on german newssites there are a lot of critical commenters and more and more often they are now attacking the newssites for their biased reporting.
What I am worried is, that on one side the internet helps the people to be informed. But I am wondering if on the other side it is also a hindrance. Commenting might be a stress and anger release so that people do not feel the need to go out on the streets to demonstrate as much anymore, or at least less. When I think back to the build up of the Irak war, there were huge demontrations around the world - but now?
Posted by: Fran | Jul 26 2014 6:17 utc | 62
@Demian
I can only hope that you're right.
@Fran
They seem to have learned from Iraq and stepped up their total immersion propaganda game. Look at most of the leftish media people. They have bought the fried ice cream. It really seems to be a nightmare unfolding...
Posted by: chuckvw | Jul 26 2014 6:33 utc | 63
European Pilots Association - Some countries had been warned - some not
Pilots Association: Intelligence services knew that flying over Ukraine was dangerous A small number of countries already knew about the risks of a missile attack over Eastern Ukraine before the 17th of July, but kept this information to themselves and only told their own airline companies, said Nico Voorbach, the chairman of the ECA, the European pilots association, to RTL Nieuws. According to the European Cockpit Association, airline companies in the US, Canada, the United Kingdom, France and Australia were “warned of the fact that should they fly over this region, no matter at what altitude, their planes could be the target of acts of war.” At high altitude "It was about which anti-aircraft warfare or missiles were used by the separatists and other militants in the area and that there was a risk that these missiles could reach commercial airliners at high altitudes,” Voorbach told the research team of RTL Nieuws. According to Voorbach it was know that “they were in the hands of people who would use them against Ukrainian or Russian planes, and therefore also against other planes flying over, the so-called collateral damage.”
Posted by: somebody | Jul 26 2014 6:42 utc | 64
@chckvw
I agree with you about the media people - but what I am talking about is the common people, who seem not to be buying the PR. They are angry but the angre is not translating into action. What I wonder if the ability to express ones opinion in forums and on newssites is pacifiying the anger enough as to keep it from creating real action on the streets.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 26 2014 6:46 utc | 65
@Fran #62:
When I think back to the build up of the Irak war, there were huge demontrations around the world - but now?
Yes, millions of people demonstrated against invading Iraq, but the media ignored that, and those demonstrations made no difference.
I am afraid I have essentially no experience with activist politics. The only demonstration I ever went to was (in the US) against the US placing Pershing missiles in Germany. I marched with a few of German trade unionists. "Petting instead of Pershing!" But that made no difference.
I think that both "common people" and elites have a sense of how their society feels, as a whole. The Soviet Union collapsed without mass demonstrations or riots. European societies, as a collective hole, may come to understand that Atlanticism has become nothing more than fascism and predatory capitalism, as Soviet citizens came to realize that the ideology upon which their society was built, Marxism-Leninism, was bullshit.
Today's Europe is to the Empire (US power/Amerikanische Macht) as Warsaw Pact countries other than the USSR were to the USSR. The fall of Soviet power began in central Europe; the fall of American inverted totalitarian power must likewise begin in Europe.
The value's not in being there -- it's weeks old and all the juice has leaked in any case -- the value is in the msm screaming and bullying strategy about being there and in control etc.
Posted by: X | Jul 26 2014 7:17 utc | 67
Here is a scenario that could have either been planned or else just presented itself to a desperate pilot. The jet fighter may have been trailing MH17 at a lower altitude when it was legitimately targeted. The fighter pilot knows the BUK has been launched and that he either evades it or dies. He hits his afterburners and climbs directly towards MH17 with the missile closing in but passes close by using the airliner like a basketball player uses a pick. The airliner is giving off more of the signals that the rocket is following and so is hit instead. That's how it will be in my movie.
Posted by: Dagdog | Jul 26 2014 7:28 utc | 68
Look here, another shill reporter who just happens to be in the right spot at the right time:
AP joining in the fray …
By Yuras Karmanau and Peter Leonard
SNIZHNE, Ukraine (AP) - It was lunchtime when a tracked launcher with four SA-11 surface-to-air missiles rolled into town and parked on Karapetyan Street. Fifteen hundred miles (2,400 kilometers) to the west, passengers were checking in for Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
PS It's clear from which side AP correspondent Yuras Karmanau is reporting!
Great luck, Yuras was there at Maidan Independence square:
○ 70 protesters killed, 500 wounded in Kiev, medic says
AP EDITOR'S NOTE — Yuras Karmanau has covered Ukraine, Belarus, Russia and other ex-Soviet nations for The Associated Press since 2000. He was among the first journalists to witness the carnage in Kiev on Thursday [Feb. 20, 2014] and describes the horrific scene.
Yuras Karmanau from Belarus is listed as "Independent Writing and Editing Professional." His writing has been published by the Times of Israel and The Scotsman.
I was there!
AP reporter Yuras Karmanau poses for a photo in front of a stage on the Independence Square, the epicenter of the country's current unrest in Kiev, Ukraine, Thursday, Feb. 20, 2014. Karmanau reported on Thursday’s violence in Kiev that left dozens of people killed and hundreds wounded, the bloodiest day in Ukraine’s post-Soviet history. (AP Photo/Sergei Chuzavkov)
Posted by: Oui | Jul 26, 2014 4:08:09 AM | 69
It does not matter. If the "rebels, secessionists" fired the shot at the Malaysian airliner, they did so by mistake. Another issue, is their fight legal or is the "Kyiv government" legal. There is no international consent on this since Western countries supported the armed Syrian uprising.
The de facto responsibility is with the people who knew about the capability of the rebels, about the war zone and still kept the airspace open.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 26 2014 8:21 utc | 71
And this is who the West supports and accepts as EU members - I find just one word - DISCUSTING!
Estonia Explains Denial of Entry to Russian Journalists | World | RIA Novosti
The TV channel reported earlier the same day that special correspondent Maxim Gritsenko and cameraman Vyacheslav Amelyutin, who arrived in Estonia to cover the annual gathering of veterans of the 20th Waffen-SS division, were detained at passport control in Tallinn airport without any explanations.
Bold mine
Posted by: Fran | Jul 26 2014 8:41 utc | 72
64
It only takes a small group of operatives, then a widespread psyop campaign, to soften up an event horizon for The Big Magic Show. That's what a magician does: they have this long rap about how you better think about flying high over Ukraine, (even though every airline already does, and did, on the same flight path as MH17), but you've planted in their minds that the separatist rebels are likely to shoot them down.
Then you pull a pigeon out of your armpit, and all the other pigeons in the room go, 'coo, coo, coo'. Like stealing candy from babies, and the same thing goes for MSM massagination, (although YouTube has those pesky time:date stamps, it still doesn't matter), you have already planted the seeds that 'Putin needs to go!'. Remember that? 'Assad needs to go!'
Go where? To a hole in the ground, like Saddam. To a necktie party arranged by Big MIC.
Where is HRH Clinton, as the Zionists pound Gaza and the stack of dead childrens's bodies climb to the heavens? She's nowhere, because it's not part of the Empire's magic act. It's part of sending in the clowns, it's part of 'eradicating the cockroaches'. You won't find anyone coming to Gaza's aid, I'm afraid, nor will anyone come to Ukraine's aid either.
Resistance is the only way. Protest is puerile, you just target yourself and your family.
V for Victory, as the Zionists used to cheer, when they got their Promised Land in WW2,
and now it's C for Corporate, and they're taking over the entire Earth as their Domain.
Blogging about it is like playing shuffle board on the Titanic.
What about that missing nuclear cruise missile from Minot?
Whose Empire magic act are they saving that one for?
Posted by: chip nikh | Jul 26 2014 8:43 utc | 73
Demian @66 - agreed, however the demonstrations gave Schröder and Mitterand support to refuse the Iraq war. Now you can argue that there is no Schröder nor a Mitterand in todays politicians and I would have to agree again.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 26 2014 8:52 utc | 74
The vehicles stopped in front of journalists from The Associated Press. A man wearing unfamiliar fatigues, speaking with a distinctive Russian accent, checked to make sure they weren't filming. The convoy then moved on, destination unknown in the heart of eastern Ukraine's pro-Russia rebellion.
No shit! Speaking with a distinctive Russian accent! Damn, why not? It's Eastern Ukraine and nearly everyone is Russian-speaking, you don't fool me. Sorry, no photo this time of me sitting on a SA-11 launcher under the motto: I'm from AP and we don't sneak photos deep in rebel territory. The rebel had to remain 'unnamed' so you can depend on the same source again.
This storytelling is grabbing the headlines in all western media outlets: What happened? The day Flight 17 was downed.
Make sure old man McCaine gets a copy and his friend Joe Biden and messenger boy John Kerry as well.
@ JSorrentine - 29
Thanks for kakistocracy. Nice.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 26 2014 9:28 utc | 76
Yuck - Petro Poroshenko: Ukraine needs the U.S. to respond to Russia - The Washington Post
Posted by: Fran | Jul 26 2014 9:34 utc | 77
57
Chocolate letter? Uh exactly how is that "chocolate letter"?
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 26 2014 10:31 utc | 78
If this Austrian news is correct Ukraine parliament does not support (ie pay for) war in Eastern Ukraine.
Translation of supposed Yatseniuk quote:
By stepping down, Yatseniuk said, he wanted to highlight the fact that the parliament refuses to support the Ukrainian army, that the parliament refuses to go to war and fight for Eastern Ukraine, that the parliament refuses to tax those who can contribute to the war effort.
I wonder why mayors are targeted now. Are they the ones organizing conscription?
Posted by: somebody | Jul 26 2014 10:48 utc | 79
WARNING of imminent WWIII!
I now think MH17 crashed exactly where it was planned, right in the center of Donbass. The cities form an protective ring around it but the crash site in the middle of field is the perfect spot for an Ukie / NATO airborne invasion.
The Retired Russian air force colonel Aleksand Zhilin claimed the NATO plan was to crash the plane in the Southern Calderon so that the Ukie troops now trapped there could be relieved by airborne NATO forces. He said that this plan failed as the plane somehow diverted north and landed in NAF held area.
Zhilin says that based on the Russian ATC radar data – confirmed by the transponder data stored in the FlightRadar24 database – the plane flew some 10 km past the crash site, somehow magically turned around and crashed coming from the east. The pattern of debris however proves the exact opposite: the plane came from the west.
http://ai-zhilin.livejournal.com/1419422.html
The fact is, that the GPS data received by MH17 and forwarded to Russian ATC by its transponder beeps and to the FlightRadar24 database through its automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) beeps is 20 km from where the plane was at the time.
This can only be explained in two ways:
1) The false GPS data came form an escort fighter spoofing HM17
2) MH17 was fed false GPS by the GPS jammer on the escort fighter.
https://twitter.com/PetriKrohn/status/492944857405878272
Both of these techniques were on the menu in the NATO SeaBreeze exercise. RIA Novosti now reports that GPS manipulation had been observed in the area.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140725/191270394/Pilots-Reported-Problems-with-GPS-in-Ukraine-Prior-to-MH17-Crash.html
***
This is exactly the kind of end result that NATO would like to achieve with their false-flag MH17 attack. The security threat posed by these troops / "unarmed" police can only be offset by a tenfold number of *armed* Russian troops. (Or a Russian no-fly, no-drive zone over all of Donbass.)
One must assume that the real mission of these troops is to prepare the lading zone for a NATO or Ukrainian airborne offensive, or alternatively, an Ukrainian armed breakthrough. It does not matter if the troops are unarmed. Their role is to act as the eyes and ears of the invading force. They will hide in the bushes – looking for "evidence" – and report on the movement of Novorossiyan forces with their satellite communication gear.
Australia has "promised" to send 200 armed troops. These are already in the UK I hear. With whom did they agree about this mission? Kiev? I do not think anyone asked Novorossiya or even Russia. How the hell do they think they will get in? On the heels of the of a Ukie tank battalion?
(It is more likely the Australians would need to spearhead the tank battalion, and act as the infantry protection Ukie tanks are desperately lacking.)
To quote the Malaysian pro-NATO press:
“You need radar, reconnaissance, commandos, anti-tank weapons, attack helicopters... Well, that’s starting to look like a small-scale war,” Klep told Dutch broadcaster NOS.
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/securing-mh17-site-a-dangerous-tightrope-act-experts-warn
***
We are now waiting for direct US and NATO aggression on the Ukraine and Novorossiya. Russia needs to make the choice now; whether defend Novorossiya or allow total NATO occupation of the Ukraine.
It is clear that all NATO actions are aimed at provoking Russia to act militarily. This would allow the US to isolate Russia from its "International Community". It is widely believed that this is a trap and Russia should not fall for it.
Yet other are saying that Putin has a cunning plan, and after two years of US occupation Russia would somehow magically turn the tide. Maybe
On the other hand, NATO very much wants all of Ukraine. They very much hope that Russia will not intervene and kill their troops. (Russkies killing Russkies is always a good thing.) They want to occupy Ukraine without any effort.
Russia is now between Scylla and Charybdis. Both alternatives are horrible. To decide Russia must resolve which is the outcome NATO wants – and chose the other.
Russia must understand that NATO is now the reincarnation of the Third Reich.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 26 2014 11:59 utc | 80
@ JSorrentine | Jul 25, 2014 5:00:07 PM
Yes, there's definittely a "cultural" problem with American people:
They are stupid and convinced they are "right", no matter what opinion they hold BTW, which may be of any kind or flavor, they are rrrright...
RIGHTEOUNESS + IDIOCY is a lethal cocktail!
Posted by: acrimonious | Jul 26 2014 12:06 utc | 81
@Dagdog | Jul 26, 2014 3:28:27 AM
"That's how it will be in my movie"
Yeah, yeah, yeah, cretinous trolls/psyops trying to sow confusion by spreading asinine hypothesis.
Did you notice that this isn't a MSM website and that this kind of idiocy won't stick and won't justify your stipend?
Posted by: acrimonious | Jul 26 2014 12:49 utc | 82
@Fran - #72
I promised a bit of digging but got carried away …
○ Estonia Celebrates Annual Waffen SS Division Heroes
In the Shadow of the Bronze Soldier
In May, 2007, I wrote a paper on the nostalgia for the Nazi-era collaborators in the Baltic States, especially as manifested in Estonia by the ex-prime minister, revisionist historian and Milton Friedman prize-winner, Mart Laar. [Interesting representation on the selection committe for the award: i.a. Anne Applebaum. Damn, she gets around between the Orange Revolution and marrying Poland's neocon FM Radek Sikorski. He became British citizen and war correspondent in Angola and Afghanistan (1986-89) reporting from the partizan side. – Oui]
Since Mr Laar acts as an adviser to the Georgian President, Mikheil Saakashvili, as well as a propagandist on his behalf in the American media, it seemed appropriate to republish the paper.
The US wants to use Netherlands and Australian police and military forces to "stabilize/secure the MH17 crash site" but Ukraine politics has reportedly gotten in the way. I'm sure that the US is working on it, top priority.
Dutch Embassy in Washington, Jul 25
Prime Minister Mark Rutte, July 25
"As you know, the international context in which we must operate is unclear and the security situation in eastern Ukraine is very fluid. This means that the Dutch government has to act cautiously, while at the same time maintaining a great sense of urgency.We're now exploring options to further stabilize the area so that we can bring back the bodies of the remaining victims. The government is submitting a letter of notification to parliament with a view to exploring modalities for support in implementing the UN Security Council resolution adopted last Monday.
"Besides looking at how we can create a stable environment, we're also seeking ways to strengthen our commitment on the ground so that we can do our work properly."
Sydney Herald, Jul 26
Kiev, Ukraine: The chaotic state of Ukraine’s politics has stalled the mission to send an international police taskforce to secure the MH17 crash site.The mission may not get permission to land on Ukraine soil until after an extraordinary session of the Ukraine parliament, currently scheduled for next Thursday.
...On Friday, Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced Australia would send 100 additional police and some ADF soldiers to Europe to join a Dutch-led international security force, whose mission is to secure the site, in separatist-surrounded territory in Ukraine’s far east.
The US along with Netherlands and Australia are using UNSC Resolution United Nations S/RES/2166(2014), Adopted by the Security Council at its 7221st meeting, on 21 July 2014, to support the sending of armed troops to "secure/stabilize the MH17 crash site."
But the Resolution says nothing about foreign military forces securing the crash site.
"The Security Council . . .Supports efforts to establish a full, thorough and independent international investigation into the incident in accordance with international civil aviation guidelines;" ...is what they are using to justify an "international security force."
Don Bacon #84
In Western terminology "MH17 crash site" is synonymous with "Novorossiya."
"Stabilizing" or "securing" it is synonymous to "restoring law and order" i.e. turning the area over to the Kiev junta.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 26 2014 14:28 utc | 86
on the the tripwire...
Sydney Herald, Jul 26
...Australia already has flagged the deployment ‘for no more than a few weeks’ of about 180 personnel – comprising 150 members of the Australian Federal Police and perhaps 30 members of the Australian Defense Force. And an additional 150 Australian officials are already in Europe, working remotely on the investigation.The Dutch will lead the force with Britain, Germany and Malaysia also expected to send military and or police contingents for a total force that Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte reportedly estimated would number several hundreds.
@Don Bacon - #84/85
The Dutch government refuses to meet with Donetsk anti-Kiev rebel leaders. FM Frans Timmermans met his counterparts before the coup d'état on Maidan Square, this 'friendship' continues. He prefers a meeting in Kiev at 800 km from the crash site, than an attempt to come close at 30 km from Russian border.
see my diary - Mark, Don't Ever Complain Again! [Dutch PM Rutte] .
Malaysia is a non-aligned state and representatives made the initial deals for security and the removal of bodies. The Dutch, as 'leader' of the international group of forensic experts, had no one to investigate the scene for a week. The Dutch do have contact with the OSCE observer team who informs the Dutch government on the local situation.
In the last 2 or 3 days, Dutch forensic experts have been flown in (24) who will be supported by unarmed military police (Marechausee). Primary goal is to retrieve all bodies or body parts for return to Hilversum, The Netherlands. Only when their lives feel threatened will the Dutch add armed special forces. I do recall that the Donetsk leader Borodai specifically stated he had no objection to Dutch military police carrying weapons. Mark Rutte said yesterday it would make the mission more complicated.
Former De Volkskrant editor–in-chief Broertjes (Labor party – PvdA) has threatened Putin's daughter living with her partner in Leiden. Nice going, any Ukrainian extremist could be triggered to harm her. Incitement to hatred and violence.
○ The Dutch Have Gone Mad [More Mad]
Dag dog;Interesting take,but not backed by evidence,as the US Navy would have that evidence and sent it on to idiot central,the WH,and it would then be in all the MSM,24,7,but probably WO the UKie jet.(s)
Harry Truman sucked the big one,and was responsible for nuking civilians,cold war rhetoric,Israel and the CIA.Totally in over his head.and the worst POTUS since Harding? and only outdone in idiocy by the last two morons.
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 26 2014 14:59 utc | 89
@ oui #88
Only when their lives feel threatened will the Dutch add armed special forces.
That's not the plan. See above.
@22:i see yats' future as an apartment dweller in a west bank settlement...
Posted by: bfrakes | Jul 26 2014 15:23 utc | 91
It looks like strong economic sanctions are coming from the EU as Grieving Dutch minister made Europe re-think Russia sanctions.
Intense lobbying by Washington, including a warning by President Barack Obama that the plane downing should be "a wake up call for Europe", had done little to change that mentality.But like a supportive family, EU partners rallied around the bereaved Dutch, putting national economic interests aside and for the first time going beyond asset freezes and visa bans on individuals to envisage curbs on entire sectors of the Russian economy that could turn the screw on President Vladimir Putin.
Gruesome images of bodies strewn across fields after the downing of flight MH17 appear to have persuaded some of the opponents of sanctions to take a more decisive, if painful, stand against Russian detribalization[sic] of Ukraine.
Within days of Timmermans' address, senior EU diplomats had agreed the broad outlines of potential sanctions on Russian access to EU capital markets, defense and energy technology.
Previous sanctions on Iran had hurt EU economic growth, since trade is a two-way street, helping to slow EU GDP growth to 1.3%. These new sanctions, if enacted, might put it in negative territory. It would be a twofer for the US, slowing two major rival economies, Russia (3.8%) and EU, thus (relatively) aiding the US economy which (unlike EU) has little trade with Russia.
news report
The Pentagon and American intelligence agencies are developing plans that would enable the Obama administration to provide specific locations of surface-to-air missiles controlled by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine so the Ukrainian government could target them for destruction, American officials said.
So we know that probably it's already being done.
@Don Bacon - Dutch military police
"The Dutch will lead the force with Britain, Germany and Malaysia also expected to send military and or police contingents for a total force that Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte reportedly estimated would number several hundreds."
This statement is NOT according to the facts on the ground in The Hague!
Perhaps Australia and Britain wil provide the armed military, the Dutch will not. The forensics experts have traveled to the crashsite near Donetsk, where the government forces continue their advance on the city. Major roads have been blocked.
The police chef from Amsterdam, Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, will lead the mission to return bodies, bagage and personal items from the passengers.
From the article, the 40 military police will remain in Kharkiv as the security situation near Donetsk has deteriorated. This morning Dutch forensics team were unable to reach the crash site. Rebels have closed down the highway from Donetsk to Horlivka to the north, which city is now under control of government forces.
From the website of Prime Minister Mark Rutte …
○ 40 members of Dutch military police to join efforts in Ukraine
Sounds to me like Kiev is using the flight investigation personnel as "human shields" ...
Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 26 2014 16:33 utc | 95
DutchNews, Jul 25
Dutch commandos poised to leave for eastern Ukraine: Telegraaf
The Netherlands is poised to send its most elite soldiers to secure the crash site of Malaysian Airways MH17, the Telegraaf reports on Friday.The paper says all leave for the commandos of the 11 Luchtmobiele Brigade based in Schaarsbergen and Assen has been cancelled and that soldiers will leave for eastern Ukraine this weekend.
In addition, Dutch special forces currently in Mali are being recalled and sent on to the area around Donetsk, the paper says, without quoting sources.
The aim of sending troops is to ensure the 23 Dutch crash investigators and 40 unarmed military police officers can do their job, the paper says.
see my #6 above on 11 Luchtmobiele Brigade
Sounds to me like the US/Kiev side are using the MH17 crash as cover to insert foreign military into Novorossia. Now that the human remains are gone and the black boxes have been removed, what is the purpose of deliberately adding foreign troops to the site if not to secure a military foothold? If anything, adding foreign military on Novorussian soil will shift the crash investigation site into a more legitimate military target for the self defense forces.
Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jul 26 2014 17:31 utc | 97
SkyNews, Jul 25
International special forces are preparing to go to the Ukraine, perhaps as early as this weekend. A detachment of Australian SAS has arrived in the UK within the past 24 hours, Sky News has learned. If authorised, they will help secure the crash site of MH17 in eastern Ukraine along with international partners. They are currently working with British and Dutch special forces - all three nations lost citizens in the disaster.
WWI -- killing Archduke Ferdinand
WWII -- Pearl Harbor
WWIII -- securing the MH-17 crash site??
(probably not, but nobody can predict what might happen now in this reckless adventure)
@Susan Sunflower
It appears the Ukies aim to reach and recapture Donetsk, including the crash site. I just followed the news from Kharkiv. The 40 Dutch military police and the Australians are held up in a hotel. The passage to Donetsk is not secure due to the attack of government forces. There will be a news conference any moment.
For another indication, I watched Australian parents at the crash site this afternoon, their daughter of 25 years - Fatima - was a crash victim. Australian PM Abbott warned the parents NOT to go, due to insecurity and the bad guys who are anti-Kiev. The propaganda war continues.
Like I have written now so often, handling affairs with Kiev at 800 km won't get you to the crash site at the Russian border. Only the non-aligned Malaysian were in Donetsk to hammer out a deal to retrieve the bodies of the victims. The Dutch stink.
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Michael Bociurkiw:
http://spitfirelist.com/news/michael-aka-mykhailo-bociurkiw-the-international-institute-of-islamic-thought-and-the-downed-malaysian-airliners/
Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jul 25 2014 17:30 utc | 1