Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 22, 2014

Hamas Win Leaves Netanyahoo and U.S. Position In Shambles

Hamas just won a major victory. The U.S. airlines Delta, USAir and United have suspended indefinitely all flights to and from Israel. This after a rocket fired from Gaza exploded somewhere near the Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv. After MH-17 came down in Ukraine the sensitivity of possible flight casualties during a conflict has dramatically increased. No airline wants to be the next to loose a plane to some errant missile. This practically closes the only international airport Israel has and will increase the pressure on Israel to accept some of Hamas' conditions for a ceasefire.

That will still take a while though and the slaughter will for now continue. Neither Hamas and the population of Gaza nor the Netanyahoo government and the people in Israel are so far willing to offer any concessions. On both sides the people push their governments to continue the fighting.

There is also no real international pressure for a ceasefire yet. Kerry and his UN clown Ban Ki Moon are in the region and are trying to find a solution that favors Israel. But there is no solutions without accepting Hamas' demands. They will have little luck to find some united Arab push for a compromise or to pressure Hamas. The only parties that could negotiate on behalf and in support of Hamas are Qatar and Turkey. But the Turkish soon-to-be-dictator Erdogan is no longer talking to Obama and has other problems.  The chickens are coming home to roost as "smugglers" from the Islamic State have started to kill Turkish soldiers on Turkey's border to Syria. Qatar is disliked by all other Arab Gulf states plus especially by Egypt for its support of the Muslim Brotherhood.

But Egypt is the other country next to Israel and the U.S. that will have to make concessions to Hamas. The wide opening of the Rafah border that is needed to lift the siege on Gaza can only be done when Egypt fully agrees. Kerry will want to achieve that but when he met the Egyptian dictator Sisi today he and his stuff were made to undergo security controls before entering the palace in Cairo. That was a significant snub and more were likely made during the talks.

The U.S. is simply no longer in a position where it can effectively create political solutions in the Middle East. As Chas Freeman analyzes the Obama administration has, over the recent years, managed to make the mess in the Middle East even messier than it usually is. Its addiction to Israel (and its utter hypocrisy) has ruined its own position:

From the outset, Israel used the “peace process” as a distraction while it created facts on the ground in the form of illegal settlements. Israeli expansionism and related policies have now made Israel’s peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians– and, thus, with Israel’s Arab neighbors – impossible. The United States created the moral hazard that enabled Israel to put itself in this ultimately untenable position. Forty years of one-sided American diplomacy aimed at achieving regional and international acceptance for Israel have thus perversely produced the very opposite – increasing international isolation and opprobrium for the Jewish state.

We will now “cover Israel’s back” at the United Nations as its ongoing maltreatment and intermittent muggings of its captive Arab population complete its international delegitimization and ostracism. We will pay a heavy political price for this stand globally, in the Middle East, and very likely in escalating terrorism against Americans abroad and at home. It may satisfy our sense of honor. But it more closely resembles assisted suicide than a strategy for the survival of Israel and our own position in the Middle East.

With Ben Gurion closed Netanyahoo will soon have to somehow end the war he started, with U.S. support, for no sensible reason. His political position in Israel will then be very weak and even more crazy people than him will come to rule. That again will further reduce the political might of the United States and the region may then, left to itself, finally be able to find a new sustainable balance.

Posted by b on July 22, 2014 at 16:49 UTC | Permalink

next page »

We could fill a plane with dead bodies and have it crash over Gaza and blame it on Hamas!

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 22 2014 17:08 utc | 1

Can we just say it, Netanyahu is not just a genuinely awful person, he is genuinely awful at making war. He backed Hamas into a corner, attacking Hamas in the West Bank, closed off all exits to Gaza, and launched a brutal campaign. Sun Tzu had a bit to say about the danger of a strategy of forcing your enemy into a situation where his only choice is to fight or die. Unsurprisingly, Hamas in fighting incredibly hard.

Recognizing that Hamas has heavily fortified Gaza with underground tunnels, what does Netanyahu do? He orders the Israeli military to destroy them, i.e. locate and frontally attack the enemy's prepared fortification. Tactically, this is about the stupidest thing that could be done.

Third, for a politician, he is running a terrible propaganda campaign. Complaints that dead Palestinian children are "telegenic" do not exactly resonate around the world. Likewise, Israel has been flooding twitter (and everywhere else) with cartoons to "prove" that Hamas hides behind civilains. Seriously? Did he think the cartoon-bomb-at-the-UN episode went so well that he wanted to replay it?

Finally, he believed his own propaganda about the unstoppable IDF. If he couldn't understand strategy or tactics or even propaganda, he could at least have been honest with himself about Israel's real capabilities. But he hasn't been. Has anyone noticed the IDF casualty lists? I haven't seen all the names, but I've seen ranks up to Lt. Col, but nothing below Sergeant. That tells me the conscripts are being held back, and these genuinely are professional soldiers (Israel's elite) fighting in Gaza. And their still being mangled. Netanyahu deluded himself (or was deluded by his generals) about what Israeli troops could actually do.

In short, Netanyahu is truly terrible at every aspect of warmaking.

Posted by: Bill | Jul 22 2014 17:13 utc | 2

U guys have to watch this

Posted by: Nini | Jul 22 2014 17:22 utc | 3

Israel just shelled a school in Gaza

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 22 2014 17:37 utc | 4

bill @2

He's a fascist.
His party is a fascist party.
His ideology is fascism. Einstein told the world about these people seventy years ago.

So, of course he's deluded and incompetent. That is the great thing about fascists: they destroy themselves by about the tenth year of the Thousand Year Reich because they really believe that their enemies are inferior and defenceless in the face of one of the most demoralised, undisciplined, trigger happy mobs that ever had the gall to pull on uniforms and call themselves an army.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2014 17:38 utc | 5

Malaysian Airlines will still be flying into and out of Israel. The Malaysians aren't afraid of a little old rocket fire. They're brave suckers, I'll give them that — but they're leading the way into this brave new world we're entering where the entire globe will be a war zone, so if you want to fly you'll just have to press forward through the missiles and hope one doesn't hit you — and people will — just you wait and see.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jul 22 2014 17:48 utc | 6

That is the great thing about fascists: they destroy themselves by about the tenth year of the Thousand Year Reich

I guess Israel is a record-setter then, right? Its longevity is more than double Nazi Germany's tenure and it's approaching the shelf life of Communism at approximately seventy years. But yes, there are expiration dates on these things — they're hard to read though without your spectacles.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jul 22 2014 17:52 utc | 7

Wonder why b thought it worth citing Charles Freeman, who is so weasly with the plain truth. He sounds as if he has never heard of Oded Yinon or the neo-cons, whose plans the US is following to the letter. Freeman goes nattering on as if there were some fragment of the American state outside Judaic control.

Posted by: sarz | Jul 22 2014 17:52 utc | 8

Or Israel could just murder all the Palestinians and be done with it. That is where this is heading, within my lifetime I think. If the Israeli state murdered 70% of all the Palestinians in a 1 week period, what would the world do exactly?
That's right, nothing.

Armed resistance is fine and good, it gives your dignity a lift and lets others far from the front lines praise you but it is slowly creating a generation of Israelis that are ready to kill all the Arabs they can lay their hands on. I think we are 25 years away from an Armenian solution in Israel/Palestine.

Maybe afterwards there can be peace, just ask the Anatolian Armenians.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Jul 22 2014 18:13 utc | 9

The US and Israel have been sowing chaos for decades. Since they want to break all the secular regimes then they'll eventually be left dealing with religious fanatics like ISIS in the resulting power vacuum.

If ISIS survives, consolidates, and continue snatching land to the west eventually it will border Israel.(it could take a decade or two, or maybe less if ISIS thrives) I know it sounds wacky but the prestige effect for ISIS to directly fight Israel would be huge. It wouldn't even matter if they "won" just ongoing low-intensity attacks would be a huge recruitment tool and psychological hammer against the remaining secular regimes that have let their brother muslims get beaten to a pulp by Israel for decades. (in that scenario I wonder what will happen with sunni/shia relations? or would ISIS pummel the Shia in the region prior to the Israelis, or both at once?)

The Israelis may come to miss the "good old days" of fighting rational actors like hamas. Bonus points since their vaunted nuke capability will be useless...

Posted by: thepanzer | Jul 22 2014 18:21 utc | 10

@2 I'm a believer that malice breeds incompetence and empathy breeds ability. The empathetic know their actions have effect and react accordingly. The malicious don't care about consequences because they aren't wired that way.

Lincoln, Washington, Grant, and even a Churchill made mistakes, but they moved to address or understand why they went wrong. The malicious don't care. It's the fault of someone else, and they don't bother to learn.

America's Iraq adventure is both evil and incompetent for this reason. Even Obama's current propaganda is so obvious because he and his ilk can't even grasp they are being challenged or wrong because they don't care how their actions affect others. If anything goes wrong, it's the fault of hippies, Nader, etc..

Posted by: NotTimothyGeithner | Jul 22 2014 18:29 utc | 11

B says "Netanyahoo will soon have to somehow end the war he started." That is going to be hard for him to do. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that the Israelis are ready to negotiate. They are still floating the whimsical idea of having a team of international inspectors police Gaza hunting for rockets and tunnels. And then I read where Dennis Ross said Qatar could be relied on to buy off Hamas. Now Kerry is saying a ceasefire will proceed any negotiations. That is how bad it is going for Israel.

Netanyahu is no doubt praying for divine intervention. But it is not coming, as b lines out. There are no legitimate brokers: Erdogan is dealing with his new neighbors Islamic State and Kurdistan. Qatar is a shell. Sisi will not be trusted by Hamas. Abbas is spent. The Obama brain trust should start planning for blow-back.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jul 22 2014 18:32 utc | 12


perhaps regular readers here know this, but as i have only recently returned here from a several year hiatus, in response to recent events, i will share what is news to me - the original host at the progenitor of this site, Billmon, is now tweeting - you can read his postings at

sometimes he wants to post something a bit larger - such as

which i will take the liberty of copying and posting here

Apocalypse Now and Then

"Today, Secretary of State John Kerry announced that the United States is providing $47 million to help address the humanitarian situation in Gaza."

Captain Willard: "It was a way we had over here for living with ourselves. We'd cut 'em in half with a machine gun and give 'em a Band-Aid. It was a lie. And the more I saw them, the more I hated lies."
Apocalypse Now

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jul 22 2014 18:47 utc | 13

thanks b...

interesting quotes from chas freeman..

b quote "...but when he(Kerry) met the Egyptian dictator Sisi today he and his stuff were made to undergo security controls before entering the palace in Cairo."

i suspect kerry going to egypt now is especially dangerous.. while the usa might have the support of it's present choice of dictator for egypt, the populace probably have a very different view of things..

Posted by: james | Jul 22 2014 18:56 utc | 14

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jul 22, 2014 2:47:45 PM | 13

Yes, thank you. It's always good to know what T. Rowe Price is thinking.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jul 22 2014 18:59 utc | 15

I think for once, Gilad Atzmon's short piece on the situation was pretty much right on the money. What, exactly was Netanyahoo's objective? Win a war on Gaza? Win what exactly? Short of entirely exterminating the people of Gaza (no doubt a preferable 'final solution'), this is an invasion the Zionist state cannot possibly win.

In his speech to the nation Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged yesterday that the war on Gaza is a battle for the existence of the Jewish State. Netanyahu is correct. And Israel cannot win this battle; it cannot even define what a victory might entail. Surely the battle is not about the tunnels or the militants’ underground operation, the tunnels are just weapons of resistance rather than the resistance itself. The Hamas and Gaza militants lured Israel into a battle zone in which it could never succeed and Hamas set the conditions, chose the ground and has written the terms required to conclude this cycle of violence. The End of Israel By Gilad Atzmon

Unfortunately, Gilad goes no further with his analysis due to his (understandable) hatred for the Western left, especially the Jewish left which appears to want to keep its cake and eat it. However, it's a pity Gilad has thrown the truly revolutionary baby out with the bathwater by not entertaining a real class position on the issue.

As the only just and viable solution is the return of the land to its rightful inhabitants, the Palestinian people, I think that the Israeli left (and the rest elsewhere) have to put a One (Palestinian) State back on the table, something I've always advocated. You have to be completely blind or stupid not see that the 'two-state solution' was never, ever an option on the Israeli side.

Posted by: William Bowles | Jul 22 2014 19:20 utc | 16

you're welcome, cold n. holefield - and thanks for supplying the info you have wrt to billmon's employer - although my investment needs are currently met by my affiliation with the vanguard group

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jul 22 2014 19:20 utc | 17

@ 13 Thanks, mistah charley ~ I'm always interested in what Billmon has to say...

Posted by: crone | Jul 22 2014 19:27 utc | 18

Anshel Pfeffer writes for Haaretz and agrees with me - somewhat: Will the threat to Israel's only international airport be a game-changer?

If the suspension [of flights] is extended indefinitely, for as long as the rockets are flying, ... it would create an intolerable situation for the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.


the psychological effect on Israelis will be significant and this could have a longer-term implication for Israel's economy.


Around 90 percent of all entrances and exits to Israel from abroad are through Ben-Gurion. This is one of the national infrastructure's most crucial links; Israel's oxygen tube reaching out of a hostile neighborhood.


This may prove to be a game-changer in a conflict which is now entering its third week. It could provide further impetus for the government in seeking a speedy ceasefire with Hamas, but that seems doubtful.

Even a partial suspension of operations at Ben-Gurion is a major coup for Hamas, which has been so starved of any real achievements ...

Accepting Hamas' terms for a ceasefire now is unthinkable. It is much more likely that, faced with the prospect of more rockets cutting Israel off from the international air routes, the government will be inclined to order a much more devastating blow, a wider ground operation to occupy the rocket-launching sites or even directed at Hamas' underground headquarters, with dreadful implications for the people of living above.

I don't think that the last graph is right. The French foreign minister already called for ending the slaughter. A huge campaign with lost more casualties than now would bring a HUGE even official delegitimization of Israel. I don't think Netanyahoo is willing to pay that price.

Posted by: b | Jul 22 2014 19:29 utc | 19

No Israel is winning, some hours ago Ashton EU FM, just today called for palestinians to stop shooting rockets while she defended Israel.

Why would israel be losing?! They have been doing this for decades!

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 22 2014 19:56 utc | 20

@19 What is an 'official delegitimization' of Israel? A UN resolution that isn't vetoed by the US?

Posted by: dh | Jul 22 2014 20:00 utc | 21

WSJ Op-Ed Defends Killing Gazans in Eerily Familiar Language

Posted by: crone | Jul 22 2014 20:09 utc | 22

the panzer @ 10

The reality of ISIS, spelled out by Christof Lehman, is different from what you imagine. It is unlikely they would challenge Israel or Saudi Arabia. But, who knows -- these creatures sometimes get a life of their own. Like Hamas.

ISIS Unveiled: The Identity of The Insurgency in Syria and Iraq

U.S. Embassy in Ankara Headquarter for ISIS War on Iraq – Hariri Insider

Posted by: sarz | Jul 22 2014 20:14 utc | 23

About the "there is no one that can negotiate", I think people are forgetting that if this carries on for a while, there might be a Kurdistan that could play mediator (not that they would want to touch that can of worms)!

Posted by: Simon H | Jul 22 2014 20:23 utc | 24

"Will the threat to Israel's only international airport be a game-changer?" If it was I am surprised Hamas wasted 1000? fire cracker "rockets" blowing up the desert. When one man with a medium mortar [range approx 3 miles rate of fire 12 rounds a minute]could hit Ben Gurian airport or other choice economic targets with every round a guaranteed hit. How many Hamas operatives would need to be in place in the belly of the beast to create economic meltdown in Israel, for a fraction of the cost of the "rockets?"

Posted by: harry law | Jul 22 2014 20:26 utc | 25

Netanyahu Compares Hamas to ISIS – AQ – Boko Haram

Netanyahu was the arrogance himself, after he managed to ditch Obama and Kerry on the wayside, he was clearly bored by UNSG Ban Ki-moon. As in his best days, Netanyahu came with his ferocious war rhetoric without any visible goal.

UN's Ban arrives, says no country would allow rockets to rain down on its cities

(Ynet News) - Ban praised the Israeli people, saying that “even in the darkest hour the people of this country have such a tremendous capacity for generosity and good.” He then urged Israelis not to despair of the peace process, saying “there is no viable alternative to a two-state solution. No closure, no barrier will separate Israelis and Palestinians from a fundamental truth: you share one future.”

Netanyahu directly responded to ban regarding the two-state solution option, saying that Hamas is just another manifestation of violent, Islamic extremist organizations like ISIS, al-Qaida, Hezbollah or Boko Haram.

Hamas's grievance, he said, “is that we exist. They don't want a two state solution. They don't want any solution.”

Posted by: Oui | Jul 22 2014 20:32 utc | 26

Netanyahu knows better than considering all terror groups similar. By mimicking the United States and CIA intelligence, throughout its history Israel and the Mossad have made use of the enmity between groups to create havoc. My recent post - Hamas rooted in the Muslim Brotherhood.

See my diary - The Root of Israel's Military Response in 'Search for Peace' - JDL.

Posted by: Oui | Jul 22 2014 20:34 utc | 27

Interesting. Blowback for Israel from Yukes/US shooting down airliner.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 22 2014 20:48 utc | 28


What blowback?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 22 2014 21:06 utc | 29

@ 24

Israelis are good friends with Kurds.

Posted by: crone | Jul 22 2014 21:07 utc | 30

"..You have to be completely blind or stupid not see that the 'two-state solution' was never, ever an option on the Israeli side..."
William Bowles@16

It was never an option, except to opportunists looking for a chance to surrender what was not theirs, to the Palestinians either, because it left the matter of the Naqba unresolved. Which means that it left millions of Palestinians without homes and without justice.

Gilad Atzmon has been treated abominably by much of the fake left. Anyone with his courage and sincerity deserves to be listened to with respect.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2014 21:21 utc | 31

@ 31

Yes bevin... agree with you

Posted by: crone | Jul 22 2014 21:23 utc | 32

the 2 state solution was a perfect recipe for israel only.. politics at it's finest, or worst depending on your perspective.. thanks every usa leader for as far back as my memory goes, excluding carter perhaps, but i think he even went along with this concept. someone correct me if i have that wrong..

@19 b quote "A huge campaign with lost more casualties than now would bring a HUGE even official de-legitimization of Israel."

official schmishal.. everything coming out of officialdom is bullshit for the most part.. politicians for essentially turned the concept of legitimacy and officialdom on its head..

Posted by: james | Jul 22 2014 21:53 utc | 33

That is the great thing about fascists: they destroy themselves by about the tenth year of the Thousand Year Reich because they really believe that their enemies are inferior and defenceless in the face of one of the most demoralised, undisciplined, trigger happy mobs that ever had the gall to pull on uniforms and call themselves an army.

Not fair to the Wehrmacht. It may have been undisciplined and trigger-happy in the way it treated partisans and civilians who belonged to the wrong groups, but it was an extremely effective military force, as I have often been told by U.S. Army veterans who fought against it.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 22 2014 22:04 utc | 34

3;A good representative for the Muslim people,armed with facts.Nice video.
Yes,ISIS is our Hamas,as is the Taliban,and they sprang from the head of terrible punitive and unjust policie,as religious conservatism rears its head in people under duress.
And I don't think they are any more brutal than decapitation by hellfire or whatever missile.Dead is dead.And they worry me not one bit.(but they worry the monsters)

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 22 2014 22:15 utc | 35

And in 45 and before,there was almost no history of religious fundamentalism,unless maybe the Mahdi,in Sudan,and you know who instigated him into being,GB.They never learn.
Someone mentioned the left in America.Huh?Well at least they mention there is a left(I can't find it,though) today,which they never mentioned prior to the big one.
Screw left right anyway.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 22 2014 22:20 utc | 36

Nina # 3,

I think it was slightly off thread but I did watch it all the way through and was blessed with an ah ah! moment.


Posted by: juannie | Jul 22 2014 22:31 utc | 37

Slightly off-topic, a nice find by Tariq Ali:

It was not by accident, but by design that the British decided to create a new state and it wasn’t Balfour alone. The Alternate Information Center in Beit Sahour, a joint Palestinian-Israeli organization promoting justice, equality and peace for Palestinians and Israelis recently put up a post. It was a quote from The Bannerman Report written in 1907 by the Prime Minister of Great Britain, Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman, and, as it was strategically important it was suppressed and was never released to the public until many years later:

“There are people (the Arabs, Editor’s Note) who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources. They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions. These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another … if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world. Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.”

Posted by: Demian | Jul 22 2014 22:59 utc | 38

Kerry promises $47 million in humanitarian aid for Gaza--$25 per person. Wow!

Meanwhile, Israel gets at least $3 Billion per year--$600 for every Jew...

I am underwhelmed by US generosity to Gaza. And the aid will almost certainly have to pass through--you guessed it--Israel, which means it will surely get siphoned off...a shawarma for every Gazan!

Posted by: JohnH | Jul 22 2014 23:03 utc | 39

Uh-oh, Maliki has lost the support of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani...!

Iraqi Leader Maliki Loses Backing of Shiite Figure and Iran for New Term

-Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is losing political support for his bid for a third term from core backers, including the country's Shiite religious establishment and ally Iran, say Iraqi officials.

The shift, officials said, is prompting members of the premier's own alliance to reconsider their support and dimming the prospect of his stay in power.

In recent days, high-level delegations of Iranian military officials and diplomats held a flurry of meetings in Baghdad and the Shiite religious capital Najaf, where they were told that Mr. Maliki, a Shiite, has lost the confidence of all but his most loyal inner circle, Iraqi officials with knowledge of the meetings said.

One Iraqi official briefed on the meetings said Iranian representatives signaled during their visit that Tehran has " really started to lean away from Maliki as a candidate."

Also critically, Mr. Maliki's bid to stay in office has, say prominent Shiite politicians, run into opposition from Iraq's top Shiite spiritual authority, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who has become central to the grinding talks between political blocs to form a government.

Posted by: CTuttle | Jul 22 2014 23:15 utc | 40

"Israeli soldiers deserve Nobel Peace Prize: UN envoy"

Well sure, after Obama won it, the field should be wide open to all sorts of murderers.

At this point you could nominate Jeffrey Dahmer and the leaders of Los Zetas and nobody would bat an eyelash.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 22 2014 23:26 utc | 41

Hey man it is called only Persian Gulf not "Arab Gulf". Please fix your mistake, I hope it's a mistake.

Thank you

Posted by: Persian gulf | Jul 22 2014 23:36 utc | 42

I don't have a crystal ball or anything, but if I had to guess, I don't think that IS would ever bother to challenge Israel. As a careful creation of the Saudi Royals, the US Intelligence, and surely Israel itself, it seems clear that their main target is the Shia and the main goal of that bloodletting being to shred the Ummah into its constituent pieces. It's a classic divide and conquer strategy.

After all, imagine if Israel faced, in 10 years, not a ruined Syria, a throttled Iraq, a neutered Egypt and wrecked Libya - but faced the four of them, united and flushed with oil money and in an alliance with the BRICS? Do you think there would be chance for Justice in Palestine if that was the situation? Likely so.

But IS, the seed planted by the US during the Cold War and a force that bloomed with its invasion of Iraq, has destroyed all of that. That's the effect they've had, so why not assume that was the goal? They're the perfect Western cat's paw - if left unchecked, their actions will split the Muslim world completely, rendering resistance to Israel even more ineffective, a challenge to the Saudis ever further away.

They're a lot like the US - they only strike those they think they can beat easily. And like any good fascist, their real enemy are the people under their control. They want to spend their time chopping off the heads of truck drivers and repressing people under some obscurantist religious code, not face off against the Israeli Army. After all, there's plenty of people to torture in Mosul and Aleppo while they spend their allowance from the Saudi patrons. Who wants to risk that fighting Israel? Those who aren't in it for the murder and mayhem are in it for the Saudi paycheck.

If they are funded by the Saudis, then we should expect them to do the Saudi's bidding, and follow the Saudi's rules. And the Saudis are the Israelis best friend in the region. Anyway, who can doubt that the Saudis would be pleased to see al Aqsa destroyed, its one less genuine competitor for the Disney-fied, cash-cow version of Islam they're building in Mecca.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 23 2014 0:17 utc | 43

CT@ 40

So the Persians are cutting bait, I wonder who their next stooge will be, Ahmed Chalabi, or will they accept defeat and go home taking al-Sistani with them?

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jul 23 2014 0:48 utc | 45

@40 If 'officials said' it and WSJ reports it I guess it must be true. Still perhaps we should wait to hear from al-Sistani himself.

Posted by: dh | Jul 23 2014 0:52 utc | 46

wow @ 45 It should be interesting to see who will satisfy both the Shi'a Irakis, Al Sistani, and/or Gen. Qassem Suleimani...!

dh @ 46 I agree that we do need to verify it...! ;-)

Posted by: CTuttle | Jul 23 2014 1:43 utc | 47

CT@ 47

I doubt the Iraqi people have any more say in their government than we do here but the Iranians seem to call the shots in Baghdad.

I wish we had the folks at Gorrilas Guides available to inform these conservations.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jul 23 2014 1:52 utc | 48


My elliptical, not to say muddled, style often misleads: the military to which I was referring was the IDF, which is essentially a garrison force, carrying out para-military police duties.

This article by James Petras is well worth reading.

This article from Qatar is only too credible:

It would be interesting to learn why, apart from the undeniable fact that there are worse candidates, Maliki is felt to deserve another period in office.
What Baghdad needs is a government in which al Sadr's tendency has real power- a revolutionary government ready to take the fight to Iraq's enemies by empowering the masses, whose natural resources Maliki has been giving away to business cronies.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 23 2014 1:57 utc | 49

Netanhjahu has reasons why will continue to bomb Gaza:
- Egypt has changed course under Al Sisi. They no longer tacitly support Gaza & Hamas. So, Egypt tacitly supports Israel when it bombs Gaza. It approves those actions.
- Netanjahu knows that the US is setting up a deal with Iran and that's something the spoiled brat called Israel doesn't like. It would mean Israel will lose influence in Washington DC.
- Obama has gave some strong hints that the US wants Israel to change it attitude towards the Palestinians. The bombing of Gaza could be the regarded to be the (negative) reply to those hints.

I expect to see more unrest in Egypt in the coming weeks, months. The egyptian government was forced to cut subsidies.

Posted by: Willy2 | Jul 23 2014 1:58 utc | 50

i cannot help but conclude that hamas has been betrayed and that israeli and gaza civilians are paying the is quite obvious that we are looking at the endgame being played out with both sides trying to come away consolation trophy.israel must remain on full alert and be ready to confront any possible attacks coming from the sinai

Posted by: wes | Jul 23 2014 2:46 utc | 51

The truth is out and all over Russian TV. BUK would blow the plane to pieces and you would not have the debris field so small. An AtoA missle(s) were launched which disabled the plane and it crashed largely in one piece. I linked to posts showing rod damage to the left wing a few days ago...typical damage from AtoA..and they showed the cockpit sprayed on the left side with holes. The attack was aided by changing the airliner's course and altitude. The BUKs in Donetsk were backup and were quickly moved out afterwards.

Posted by: nardami | Jul 23 2014 3:08 utc | 52

re 49
This is the correct link;

Posted by: bevin | Jul 23 2014 3:14 utc | 53

If, as seems likely, the PA is a casualty of this Gaza offensive-Abbas is completely discredited and thrown out by the PLO- this will indeed prove to be a big defeat for Israel.

And one wholly characteristic of a regime which has long since lost touch with reality. The assassination of Arafat and his replacement by the corrupt Abbas and his kleptomaniacal cronies, like the empowerment of Yeltsin in Russia, was the sort of plan which could only succeed in the very short term. And nothing was more calculated to upset the PA applecart and its gestapo than these campaigns against Gaza.

As goes the PA so too will go the wider Arab world: Sisi is exposed as an empty uniform, the stalking horse for Mubarak's return from the dead, and the other states and the blowhard jihadists, are yet to be heard from while the IDF is otherwise engaged and the chance to prove their bona fides is staring them in the face.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 23 2014 3:34 utc | 54

Posted by: lysias | Jul 22, 2014 6:04:53 PM | 34
"Not fair to the Wehrmacht. It may have been undisciplined and trigger-happy in the way it treated partisans and civilians who belonged to the wrong groups, but it was an extremely effective military force, as I have often been told by U.S. Army veterans who fought against it."

Well, the German army was NOT undisciplined and trigger-happy re civilians. In regards to insurgents, the rules of warfare in this connection were quite different from today. Certain practices which were permitted back then have since been outlawed. Though certain parties certainly continue to carry out many such practices, such as the J's using collective punishment against the palestinians, with impunity. You see, you gotta have proper credentials to do it...
BTw, an undisciplined and trigger-happy military CANNOT BE effective. The German military was not only effective, it was the MOST effective of WWII. But the war went the way of the bigger battalions.

Posted by: Luca K | Jul 23 2014 3:56 utc | 55

Posted by: William Bowles | Jul 22, 2014 3:20:34 PM | 16
U wrote:
"I think for once, Gilad Atzmon's short piece on the situation was pretty much right on the money."

Uhh? For once??
Gilad's writings are mostly excellent. What bothers
people is he says what's on his mind, which
is so refreshing in this ridiculous PC world we live in, and in so doing rattles the cages of lots of people. Take a look at this one:

You continue:
"As the only just and viable solution is the return of the land to its rightful inhabitants, the Palestinian people, I think that the Israeli left (and the rest elsewhere) have to put a One (Palestinian) State back on the table, something I've always advocated. You have to be completely blind or stupid not see that the 'two-state solution' was never, ever an option on the Israeli side."

I agree. In fact Israel should never have been created; at least not where it was and not without all J's going to live in it... otherwise, what's the purpose? It only creates so many new and more dangerous problems.
But u see, the problem with the one state solution is that the J's know such an entity would be very problematic in practice. While the J's advocate open borders/multicult for others they damn well know that s*it does NOT WORK. Even more so in this case, after all they have put the palestinians through. Expect the zios to fight to the finish for their pet project and lets hope that they do not bring WWIII about while at it.

Posted by: Luca K | Jul 23 2014 4:15 utc | 56

I also concur with juannie @ 37, thanks nina@3 ...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 23 2014 4:57 utc | 57

Nini @ # 3 Thanks for that. It was quite good to watch . . . no flys on that lad so to speak

Posted by: kiwicris | Jul 23 2014 5:15 utc | 58

Demian @ # 38 Good mfind !! Never seen that before. Of course language like that is always embargoed till it doesn't matter / the participants are dead

Posted by: kiwicris | Jul 23 2014 5:33 utc | 59

@b: Hamas is as you know a branch of Muslim Brotherhood and just another creation of the usual suspects, so expecting Egypt to open up the border for them is a rather strange line of thinking. Not going to happen just like that.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 23 2014 5:45 utc | 60


What is the blowback for israel as you called it?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 23 2014 7:04 utc | 61

Still, I'd be surprised if the airport remained on the red list for very long. Netanyahu must be panicking. he telephoned Obama last night, to insist that the FAA change its decision. This is a stab at the heart of Israel, if it remains in force. 90% of passage in and out of Israel goes through Ben Gurion.

Necessarily Netanyahu must do everything in his power to get the airport back in full action. Equally Hamas would be well advised to target it more than Tel Aviv. They've got a real lever there, for the first time.

Posted by: Alexno | Jul 23 2014 8:58 utc | 62

The Gaza tragedy is overwhelming the mainstream media’s anti-Russia warmongering effort. MH17 to most people seems like a mistake, and to most people — without a very healthy dose of ‘Putin is the devil’ propaganda, which they aren’t getting enough of because the massacres in Gaza keep getting ‘too much’ attention — it will seem an absurd basis for a cold or hot war.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 23 2014 9:16 utc | 63

@Anonymous #61:

I merely meant that the downing of MH17 is making airlines jittery about flying into warzones.

"Blowback" was probably not an appropriate term to use, since my present impression is that MH17 was downed by a Ukie political faction, very possibly without the foreknowledge of USG or Israel.

@fairleft #63:

As I've indicated on the current Ukie thread, my impression now is that the downing of MH17 was a rogue Ukie op, which the junta itself and USG were not informed of beforehand.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 23 2014 9:35 utc | 64

Alexno @ "Equally Hamas would be well advised to target it more than Tel Aviv. They've got a real lever there, for the first time." Totally agree, the "villa in the jungle" would cease to exist if the resistance targeted the economy of Israel, for that they would need operatives inside Israel operating in cells. {not that many] This brave individual has the right idea [but strictly small potatoes.

Posted by: harry law | Jul 23 2014 9:37 utc | 65


Actually it was a good term to use, it was rather me that didnt catch it the first time :)

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 23 2014 9:49 utc | 66

@62 "They've got a real lever there, for the first time."

More likely it is a case of Obama pulling some levers.

I mean, get real: the FAA would not make such a politically-charged decision without first running it past the Obama Administration.

This is simply a gentle reminder to Israel just how effortlessly the USA can hurt Israel, and done in such a way that Netanyahu can't use his usual trick of getting his puppets in Congress to scream in pain.

After all, no American politician would dare to make light of the danger of airline flights into and out of a war zone - not after what just went down in the Ukraine.

This is one situation where Obama can grab Bibi by his balls, and Obama must be loving every minute of it.

Posted by: Johnboy | Jul 23 2014 10:00 utc | 67


This interesting news clip on Breitbart, regarding the FAA issue:

US Senators say it's time for 'mercy flights' to Tel Aviv

By Matt Spiegel

AMSTERDAM Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:32am EDT

(Reuters) - US Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham said on Wednesday that it was still unclear how the FAA injunction on US air flights into Tel Aviv will affect the Israeli financial system, however they say they are sponsoring a bill in the Senate, ' the spirit of JFK's Berlin air drops...", to continue the shipment of ten $1 million dollar shrink- wrapped bales of $100s every day to the beleagured capitol of Israel, courtesy of the US taxpayers' last life savings, that are never coming back.

Speaking to reporters, McCain invoked images of Israel trapped between the hordes of Bud™-thirsty Muslims and the deep blue sea, when he said, "As a US senator on the Tel Aviv baaksheesh payroll, it's my job to courier America's last life savings to my masters in Israel, even if we have to charter the Budweiser Express!"

Senator Graham compared the 'vicious FAA blockade by the Obama Administration' to the Berlin Wall, promising to 'bring down that wall' with twice daily airdrops of $5 million dollars directly into the Knesset, using high-tech US military laser guidance systems and HALO parachute delivery to foil Hamas missiles.

No timetable was given for when their bill would be introduced to the Senate, or the cash air drops begin, due to logistics issues over redelivery of the millions to Arizona and South Carolina 'for safe keeping'.

Posted by: chip nikh | Jul 23 2014 10:05 utc | 68

Demian @64:

" impression now is that the downing of MH17 was a rogue Ukie op, which the junta itself and USG were not informed of beforehand."

But to what end? And are there rogue Ukrainian ops that wage war without the approval of the USG or Kiev? I'm not disagreeing with your assumption. I just haven't heard of rogue Ukie ops.

Posted by: madisolation | Jul 23 2014 11:08 utc | 69

@ Robert: why should old news mixed with yet another propaganda stunt be a "must read"? It's not like we never heard of oil interests and it's not like we don't already know that the empire is anti-Russian.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 23 2014 11:26 utc | 71

How stupid of me, I who thought killing 700 people was a warcrime.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 23 2014 12:08 utc | 72


I don't think that Obama makes any independent decisions, but you may be correct in your assessment that the cabal that runs the USG has made the airport call in order to tamp down 'yahoo's violent rage.

After all, bombing hospitals and schools full of little girls (even if they are brown) isn't going to play well with any publics' sentimentality for very long. (Though the FOX News Crowd continues to foam at the mouth).

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Jul 23 2014 12:26 utc | 73

[Netanyahu's] political position in Israel will then be very weak and even more crazy people than him will come to rule.

That's an interesting and, hell, optimistic dynamic. As crazier people take charge, a country weakens. So Israel weakens, and the same thing likely will happen again (remember when Cheney was President?) in the US in 2016. The world is gonna have to go through some sh!t over the next 7-10 years, but once we're through it and Israel/US are knocked off their world hegemon throne, life in the new multipolar world will be _much_ more peaceful and at least a little more prosperous.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 23 2014 12:32 utc | 74

Qatar's emir visit to Saudi Arabia: a deal about Gaza vs Syria?

Qatar is facing a dead end on Gaza. It has rejected the insulting ceasefire proposed by Egypt so as to prevent Al Sissi to obtain a political victory but it has been unable to get a better deal for its Moslem Brotherhood proteges in Gaza.

Egypt supported by Saudi Arabia stands on its firm position: eliminate the Hamas political power in Gaza as it is one of the few Moslem Brotherhood groups still in power in the Arab countries. Its goal are close to Israel who wants in addition a total demilitarization of Gaza.

Qatar and Turkey are under growing pressure by the international to get Hamas to agree on a ceasefire.
Turkey is busy in its election, its relation with the USA apparently strained. Iran is helping some groups on Gaza but it is not in agreement with Qatar about Syria. Qatar is cornered and its relation with the GCC members are very low.

Coincidence? In Syria the 'president' of the opposition coalition, a Qatar choice has been sacked. It seems that Saudi Arabia wants to end the role of the failing SNC created by Turkey and Qatar 3 years ago with a majority of Moslem Brotherhood members. Saudi wants to have free hands to deal with Syria without Qatar continuing to support ISIS and the FSA.

It may seem that Qatar and Saudi Arabia may stuck a deal:
Qatar gets off its hand from Syria. In exchange Saudi Arabia pushes Egypt for a ceasefire that would fulfill most of Hamas's conditions.

Qatar will then invest heavily to rebuild and develop economically Gaza to tackle poverty and despair.

The question to ask is: What are Saudi Arabia plans for Syria? A deal with Bashar Al Assad to allow him to crush ISIS or another deal to allow the rebels to topple Bashar Al Assad?

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 23 2014 13:28 utc | 75

Jim White has a good piece on the, much vaunted and incredibly costly, Iron Dome system, which is designed to shoot down American economies.
Evidently it is almost totally ineffective in its other purpose-hitting rockets from Gaza.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 23 2014 14:39 utc | 76

Why persist in calling this a war? It is a disgusting, murderous, evil occupation.

That some of the occupied would fight back is not enough to call it a war. It is not an armed conflict carried out between Nation States, as Palestine is not a State (as a supermarket employee just informed me recently, re. some labelling issue, and he was quite right), OK one should not be picky about the definition of ‘war’, it is some politically (or other - ..) defined group against another.

Gaza is de facto and confusedly, or according to some, indubitably de jure under the control of Israel.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 23 2014 15:13 utc | 77

Noirette, neither Palestine nor Israel are states. Both are artificial recent creations of the british empire. That land used to be southern Syria and Israel at least existed ages ago there. As opposed to that, Palestine was invented by brits in when it was still their colony (early 20th century) and named after the long-extinct Phillistines that you may know from the bible.

If you're after truth, you need to know both sides of the story, as well as many historical facts. Fact is, that is Syria if anything. Also in Syria they have no problems with domestic Jews, which would solve that problem too. In the end, everyone would be happy except for the british empire and their dialectic puppets (MB/Hamas on one side and the masonic mafia playing Israeli government on the other). Synthesis = Vatican and "UN" get the land and fwck all the involved minions, while joyfully working on their third temple and world government plans there AND making us poorer here due to the "crisis", raised prices for oil/gas, taxes etc. Hell, we already have forced labor in the middle of EU today (google 1-euro-jobs in german press).

The rest is just diversion, regardless of size (although they didn't mind two world wars etc. either). Good old divide and conquer paired with bread and circuses.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 23 2014 15:59 utc | 78

would you guys view this video and help it go viral? a Palestinian woman word artist...

We teach life, Sir

Posted by: crone | Jul 23 2014 16:44 utc | 79

The deal is simple, the Palestinians don't have to win. They simply have to survive. Anytime they survive, they become much stronger than before.

What the Israelis are doing is just deliberately murdering civilians to scare them into turning against Hamas and other resistance groups in the strip. Kinda like bombing them into submission. They're gonna need a lot of bombs if they really think this will be over by Saturday.

Bibi has painted himself into a corner. His stated objective was to stop the rockets and also destroy Hamas. NONE of these objectives have been achieved other than wanton civilian massacre. His only hope now is for the US and the pliable Arab rulers to save him with some ceasefire deal.

Thing is, anytime they(Israelis) try this aggression, the opposite of what they'd hoped for happens.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 23 2014 16:47 utc | 80

Rafeef Ziadah ... a truly gifted lady.

See her latest, Hadeel.

Posted by: david | Jul 23 2014 17:12 utc | 81

Noirette, neither Palestine nor Israel are states post at 77 by T2015.

This is a completely ridiculous statement. In the sense that Israel is an internationally recognised country while Palestine is not. Well the definition of a ‘State’ can have many ins and outs and loopholes, like say in Cyprus. That borders were drawn arbitrarily in the past is not an argument for or against Statehood.

If you're after truth, you need to know both sides of the story, as well as many historical facts. Fact is, that is Syria if anything. Also in Syria they have no problems with domestic Jews, which would solve that problem too.

I wrote nothing about Syria. As for knowing both sides of any story, or historical facts, I’m quite up to speed in my own mind, though of course some might disagree with my posts or povs. I did not touch on Jews in Syria, though I don’t see what problem could be solved as you state as they have no ‘problem with domestic Jews.’ What does that mean? What does that have to do with anything about Gaza? What ‘problem’ could be solved with Syrians, say, not detesting Jews?

Your post was an incoherent garbled mess. Heh I’m quite fired up to post on here again to get trolls like this out.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 23 2014 17:16 utc | 82

The statistics buried in the last 2 paragraphs here are really interesting.

Posted by: ATH | Jul 23 2014 17:16 utc | 83

re 77

Both are artificial recent creations of the british empire. ... As opposed to that, Palestine was invented by brits in when it was still their colony (early 20th century) and named after the long-extinct Phillistines that you may know from the bible.

It's always nice to see hasbara on MoA. It's so rare, and doesn't usually last long.

Palestine is a very ancient name for a country, going back to Bronze Age in the 2nd millennium BC, long before the Hebrews invaded. The name of the country as Palestine has existed since Roman times on a permanent basis. It was not invented by the British. You are talking through your hat.

Posted by: Alexno | Jul 23 2014 17:19 utc | 84

Thank god for traitorous fucking billionaire scum like Michael Bloomberg! If it wasn't for his courageous efforts for his homeland then people might actually stop visiting the fucking shithole of war criminality, apartheid and genocide that is the state of Israel.

JFC, what a fucking douchebag.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 23 2014 17:51 utc | 85

Zionists have done/do everything they can to change history... the books, the stories, even the maps.

@ 80 Thank you David for that link. She is wonderful... I am so moved.

Please tell me how you posted the link - this old woman is not hi-tech by any means!

Posted by: crone | Jul 23 2014 17:54 utc | 86

Not sure about its validity but...

Obama Sending 2,000 Troops to Gaza Strip by Newpower

Documents leaked on the Internet on Monday revealed that President Barack Obama has asked the Pentagon to ready approximately 2,000 combat-ready soldiers for a possible deployment to the Gaza Strip, to aid Israel in their fight against Hamas and the Palestinians.

Posted by: william bowles | Jul 23 2014 20:08 utc | 88

JFC, there is no depth to which the murderous stupidity will not plumb.

Hamas building tunnels to attack Israeli kindergarten (with cartoon).

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 23 2014 20:12 utc | 89

@ 88

William that's a fake report...

"An article saying President Barack Obama will send 2,000 soldiers to Gaza amid Israeli tensions is fake.

The article was published on the National Report, which is a self-appropriated “satire” website."

Posted by: crone | Jul 23 2014 20:30 utc | 90

Posted by: crone | Jul 23, 2014 4:30:08 PM | 90

has a ring of authenticity about it though, but on reflection, if the story broke on Monday, and was authentic, then by now the media would be full of it.

Posted by: william bowles | Jul 23 2014 21:17 utc | 91

@64: Rogue Ukie op? Then why does it so obviously serve the U.S. objective of overriding European objections to sanctions against Russia? Why was it timed to obscure the news coverage of Israeli war crimes in Gaza? Would rogue Ukie operatives have cared much about those things?

Posted by: lysias | Jul 23 2014 21:20 utc | 92

UN leader send his best wishes to Israel
What a crazy world we live in huh?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 23 2014 21:24 utc | 93

I still suspect MH17 was diverted from Malaysia Air's normal flight path to over the combat area by meaconing. Now I learn that a military exercise, BREEZE 2014, involving the U.S. that included the use of electronic warfare and electronic intelligence aircraft as well as "commercial traffic monitoring" was going on in the Black Sea at the very moment the airliner was shot down. Wayne Madsen: MH-17: Beware of the «Chameleon».

Posted by: lysias | Jul 23 2014 21:48 utc | 94

International Anger Mounts Against Israel

Ecuador has recalled its Ambassador from Israel, Chile has suspended its free trade agreement negotiations. Bolivia’s President Evo Morales and Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro have called the assault on Gaza genocide and “extermination”, with Maduro demanding that the UN address the: “systematic violation of the Human Rights of the Palestinian population in Gaza by the State of Israel and adopt the necessary measures to halt those violations.” Venezuela severed all relations with Israel after its last massacre, “Cast Lead” over Christmas and New Year 2008-2009.

Meanwhile, amid massive protests in South Africa, the African National Congress in Parliament (who suffered their own long years of apartheid) is calling for the Israeli Ambassador to leave with “immediate effect” and for the South African Ambassador to Tel Aviv to be immediately recalled.


Many countries are threatening boycotts and recalling their Ambassadors, and sending Israeli ambassadors home

... Norwegian Dr Mads Gilbert stated on Democracy Now:

" This was truly a massacre, and the injuries were just horrible … Children came in without heads and totally dismantled by the shelling of the residential areas."

On the same day, Monday July 21st, Obama merely said weakly that he had “serious concerns.” Pathetic!

Posted by: crone | Jul 24 2014 3:58 utc | 95

From my new myFDL post, '703 Palestinians, 35 Israelis* Killed in Gaza Conflict; Israel Reservists Refuse to Serve':

One reason, in my humble opinion, that the war is falling apart for the Israeli leadership, and is ‘getting away’ from its simple apparent purpose, ‘do something about those missiles’, is that you can’t do anything (just) about the missiles. Israel has three realistic (which doesn’t mean civilized) choices: 1) destroy Gaza and kill or deport all its Palestinians, 2) do nothing and accept the missiles in the way people accept traffic accidents (which kill far more people in Israel than missiles from Gaza do), or 3) negotiate a long-term peace agreement with Hamas (notes: not with the PLO; Egypt is the worst possible intermediary). Instead of choosing one of those three, Israel has chosen something else, and the backfiring sound can be heard all around the world.

Posted by: fairleft | Jul 24 2014 5:14 utc | 96

@ Noirette #81: "Well the definition of a ‘State’ can have many ins and outs and loopholes, like say in Cyprus. That borders were drawn arbitrarily in the past is not an argument for or against Statehood."

We are not talking about the same topic. Again, neither the current british plane carrier called Israel nor the so-called Palestine are genuine states of the original peoples with any real history. And of course the Muslim Brottherhoiod/Hamas is no genuine representant of any palestinean peoples or anything such.

Both entities were carved out of Syria, a stolen and colonized land. There never was a "Palestine" there nor are there any living Phillistines left there. Both populations are (80-90%) historically recently imported by the colonists, the original peoples are pretty much extinct.

Then, everyone is talking about jews and palestieans, but noone mentions the other minorities there. Also quite a pointer for a case of bad hegelian dialectics.

We don't have such a case in Cyprus, Cyprus is a real country with genuine peoples etc., not even remotely comparable except that part of it is occupied by a foreign force.

"I wrote nothing about Syria. As for knowing both sides of any story, or historical facts, I’m quite up to speed in my own mind, though of course some might disagree with my posts or povs. I did not touch on Jews in Syria, though I don’t see what problem could be solved as you state as they have no ‘problem with domestic Jews.’ What does that mean? What does that have to do with anything about Gaza? What ‘problem’ could be solved with Syrians, say, not detesting Jews?"

Of course you wrote nothing about Syria, because you are also one of the snake oil salesmen selling the black-and-white divide-and-conquer bullshit devoid of pretty much any facts, but very pumped-up emotionally. Typical propaganda nonsense, beginner level.

"Your post was an incoherent garbled mess. Heh I’m quite fired up to post on here again to get trolls like this out."

My dear, feel free to exactly point out the "incoherent" parts of my posts, with your contrary standpoint to support the presented facts (but please google "fact" before you post anything).

Needless to say, resorting to nonsensical ad-hominem attacks quite clearly displays which one of us is a troll here. At least you paid shills could try being a bit more polite in your lies-ridden sales pitch.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 24 2014 8:58 utc | 97

^^ nevermind the typos, have no time for spell-checking

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 24 2014 8:59 utc | 98

Oh and: the problem that would be solved is the very problem we have in Israel with jews and palestineans. In Syria, palestineans would be in a moslem majority and thus treated fairly, while jews would be a respected minority and also could live well.

Only the imperial masonic puppets and british would-be-muslim terrorists would suffer, but both PEOPLES would be free and safe in Syria.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 24 2014 9:02 utc | 99


Noirette is right, under international law Palestine (Gaza, Westbank) is occupied by Israel. If you cannot accept this, gtfo troll.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 24 2014 9:05 utc | 100

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