Gaza, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq.
Other issues here please.
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July 18, 2014
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@88
its over on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/jorge.alberich/posts/10203428867779743
Posted by: brian | Jul 19 2014 8:09 utc | 101
Incredible Provocation’ – Fidel Castro condemns Ukraine and Israeli regimes
‘Incredible Provocation’
Fidel Castro Ruz
July 18, 2014 1:07:24
http://www.granma.cu/cuba/2014-07-18/provocacion-insolita
Posted by: brian | Jul 19 2014 8:12 utc | 102
Hiba Syriana shared a link.
9 hours ago
Ecuador’s government on Thursday decided to call its ambassador in Tel Aviv, Guillermo Basante, with immediate effect, as reported by the Foreign Ministry in a statement, given the gravity of the situation in the Middle East by indiscriminate army Israel against the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza
http://lainfo.es/en/2014/07/18/ecuador-calls-its-ambassador-in-israel/
Posted by: brian | Jul 19 2014 8:26 utc | 103
brian
You arent that bright are you? Anonymous is as anoynmous as your nick.
Please respond to Timmur’s videos, could you do that?
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 8:41 utc | 104
There’s so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqok5m4lqeE
Posted by: Robert | Jul 19 2014 9:06 utc | 105
You arent that bright are you? Anonymous is as anoynmous as your nick.
Please respond to Timmur’s videos, could you do that?
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19, 2014 4:41:23 AM | 102
brighter thsn your dim bulb
Brian is my name,..whats yours?
Posted by: brian | Jul 19 2014 9:39 utc | 106
Doctah charlie #5:
If the airliner was shot down intentionally, then the cui bono issue must be considered.
If, on the other hand, those who shot it down thought they were shooting down a different plane, a plane of their enemies, then it becomes not a cynical move in a chess game played with innocent lives, but merely a blunder such as often happens in the fog of war
No. It stills remains a matter of pointing a questioning finger at the US/junta. Why? I happen to think the mounting evidence points to a deliberate f.f. op. by the US carried out by the junta (mercenary fighter pilot delivering the fatal blow).
But if, suppose, the ever-less-likely case of it being an accident by the resistance actually does prove to the true, there are several pointers that the junta deliberately created the conditions and baited a trap for the resistance:
—The air was being cluttered with chatter about transport aircraft in the area.
—The liner was drawn into an area where it wouldn’t have been expected.
—Two fighters were observed closely following the following the liner. Three craft flying in close formation at high altitude = there’d be no question of it being military action.
Therefore still a cynical move by the junta, even if you subscribe to the accident view.
Posted by: Petra | Jul 19 2014 9:40 utc | 107
Some US politicians are lunatics…Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R – NH) centered on the sanctions front, demanding Iranian-style sanctions against Russia for the “act of terrorism.” And if you think that’s as far as sanction-mongering goes, you’ve clearly forgotten Rep. Peter King (R – NY).
Rep. King not only demanding sanctions but an outright embargo on all of Russia, including banning all flights from leaving Russian airspace. King lamented that the Europeans needed to “show some guts” and go along with his act of war. http://news.antiwar.com/2014/07/18/obama-slams-russia-over-plane-as-gop-hawks-beat-war-drums/
Posted by: harry law | Jul 19 2014 9:53 utc | 108
brian
You are slow, so I tell you this, “brian”, tell me your last name and adress.
Do you get it now? You are anonymous.
Obviously you cannot reply to Timmur because you are afraid that he might be right, thats not a mature standpoint.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 9:56 utc | 109
I can hear the tumbrills rolling..
France the first country in the world to ban pro Palestinian rallies.
Anyone who turns up to an illegal demonstration now faces up to a year in prison, and a 15,000 euro fine.
If they hide their faces to avoid being identified, this sentence can be increased to three years, and a 45,000 fine.
Even those who publish details of an illegal rally on social media face up to a year in prison, and a 15,000 euro fine.
This can be increased to seven years and a 100,000 fine if the postings lead to violence. link to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697194/Outrage-France-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html I suspect they would like to bring back the guillotine. I hope they march, and smash the Zionist loving gobshites.
Posted by: harry law | Jul 19 2014 11:28 utc | 110
NYT Changes Headline: Four Young Boys Killed Playing on Gaza Beach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZW6rLsc7rE&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dQublA3BP-FcKsHtKtSAKIq
Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jul 19 2014 12:06 utc | 111
Loss of Antonov AN-12 Would Match Date Fake Audio
That would fix the date of the audio recording the Kiev junta used in the false flag operation of July 17.
Ukrainian Antonov-26 military transport plane shot down by rocket
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) July 14, 2014 — A Ukrainian military transport plane [Antonov AN-12 turboprop] was shot down along the country’s eastern border with Russia but all eight people aboard managed to bail out safely, the defense ministry said.
More evidence that CounterPunch is hip to the ‘Clean Break’ theory of Zio-chaos in the ME: Planned Chaos in the Middle East—and Beyond, by Ismael Hossein-Zadeh.
Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Jul 19 2014 12:34 utc | 113
Sorry guys. Not sure what happened to the link. Here it is: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/18/planned-chaos-in-the-middle-east-and-beyond/
Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Jul 19 2014 12:35 utc | 114
a personal note – my wife’s dutch colleague, mentioned previously – we were relieved to learn that he and his family had a later flight, on a different airline – his wife is indonesian and they are combining a trip to the AIDS conference with visiting the grandparents
Robert, #103 – extremely apt – ‘we are fools to make war on our brothers in arms’ – knopfler’s music conveys the tragedy of the human condition so beautifully that one can, for a while, believe that life is good, despite everything
Petra, #105 – the ‘baited a trap’ hypothesis is too elaborate, with too many chances for things to go wrong – if kiev wanted the airliner to be shot down, and then to blame it on the anti-kiev forces, for reasons fully discussed here already, then the simpler thing is just to do it themselves
‘some bodies had been dead for a while – not enough blood, too stinky’ – this is a ludicrous, irrational, and pointless attempt to minimize the number of people killed – ‘i shot the sheriff, but i did not shoot the deputy’ – and maybe, in the fictional reggae song, the deputy WAS a victim of ‘friendly fire’ – but in the case of the airliner, it did NOT leave amsterdam with corpses in some of the seats
and this brings up a point discussed on CNN last night – i write from the eastern u.s. time zone – you have three hundred bodies, some dismembered, scattered over a large area in the summertime – they continue to putrefy and become ever more dangerous to people in the vicinity – and apparently no entity on the ground with capability to take control of the area, collect the remains, bodybag them, refrigerate them, identify them and return them to their families
not mentioned on the tv show, but a thought that i had – pretty soon the most practical alternative might be a collective funeral pyre – many people would be even more upset, of course
may the creative forces of the universe have mercy on our souls, if any
.
Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jul 19 2014 12:50 utc | 115
The greatest tragedy is the decapitation of expertise in the struggle against HIV/AIDS. The world has easily lost a decade’s worth of knowledge that was aboard that plane. That may well be several millions of lives lost. Those who actually caused this loss must be held accountable, even if justice is found summarily in front of a wall.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 19 2014 13:11 utc | 116
@98
“isnt it strange you dont use your name?”
What the fuck is your problem?
People are looking for sources of information on a massive international crisis and this dimwit is babbling about what name people are posting under.
Either shut the fuck up about ‘names’ or get the fuck off this site.
Posted by: FuckShit | Jul 19 2014 13:18 utc | 117
@98 I dont use my real name either. I stole one from an african king who died 2150 years ago or around that. You can find him on wikipedia.
Posted by: Massinissa | Jul 19 2014 13:32 utc | 118
MH17 was on a different route. Behind it, over the Warsaw airspace, the Russian president flight was returning from Brazil after the Brics created the Bank of Development. Who and why someone decided to change the MH17 route?
I wrote something in Italian: http://www.formiche.net/2014/07/19/mh17-la-storia-quadra-affatto-molto-piu-grave/
But it is good the article by the DailyMail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html
niqnaq has figured it out
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/it-would-be-simpler-just-to-say-that-kiev-used-a-buk-on-the-boeing-themselves/
it would be simpler just to say that kiev used a “buk” on the boeing themselves
Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Jul 19 2014 14:08 utc | 120
i think that for the Americans sake
there had better be inconclusive proof that flight MH-17
was downed either by
a)separatist rebels (accident or no accident) or
b) by Russian military personnel
any other conclusion is going to lead to a
massive split(call it a parting of the waves)
between EU and US
Posted by: chris m | Jul 19 2014 14:15 utc | 121
THIS videoclip (and its copies on youtube) gets alot of talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0
It is said this showing BUK being transfered away by the kiev regime im that region the airplane got fired at.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 14:38 utc | 122
chris m
Really? West are already blaming Russia like every other time.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 14:58 utc | 123
The Yellow Media are creating a Doctor Strangelove situation. They do not seem to grasp the idea that the war between Russia and the USA toward which they are groping will destroy both countries altogether. Once more, a war between the USA and Russia WILL DESTROY BOTH COUNTRIES and much of the rest of the world.
How about the Yellow Pat Lang doing Putin’s bidding for him? Lang has a history of picking on people of lesser size, but when confronted with someone or something at least his size or larger (as is the case with Putin’s Russia), he backs down like a Yellow Coward, or better (or worse) yet, he switches sides and aids and abets the other side.
Lang is wrong, of course, there will be no escalation because behind the scenes, as I’ve indicated on numerous occasions, it’s Business As Usual, but that won’t stop Lang’s delusions of grandeur. If he and his sycophantic mentee commentator Tyler have their way, it’s imperative there be no nuclear war since their hope is America remain intact so they can implement a Franco-like American post-collapse regime with Lang at the helm.
For those of you quoting and linking to Castro, Pat Lang has boasted to me in email about how he and his helped murder Che in Bolivia and that he’d be happy to serve the same fate to me. Anti-Americanism makes for such strange bedfellows, don’t you think?
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jul 19 2014 15:13 utc | 124
between EU and US
Posted by: chris m | Jul 19, 2014 10:15:31 AM | 119
I sure as hell hope so, and I sincerely mean that. I want the EU countries to feed themselves, one by one or The Whole Megillah, to Putin. This way, Russia’s sure to win the next World Cup since Germany’s team will now be relabeled Russia. A lot of relabeling goes on in that part of the world — there’s no reason to think it will cease any time soon. What will Germany be called in twenty years — maybe Prussia again, who knows.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jul 19 2014 15:28 utc | 125
Regarding comment 120 – alleged transfer of BUK:
SouthFront has commented on this;
“In Ukrainian publics distributed video where militias allegedly trafficked to the RF side BUK, which was shot he Malaysia plane. But on the video Krasnoarmeysk city, visible billboard with advertising car dealership on Dnipropetrovsk st, 34. May 11, and city is still under the control of the junta troops conducting “ATO”. Questions?”
Posted by: RobertB | Jul 19 2014 16:27 utc | 126
BTW
For those that missed the move of VR –to–> RIA-NOVOSTI, This is the link to Russian news and opinion in English. Click on the “RADIO” link on the top of the page to follow the following programs: Burning point & Red Line.
Poroshenko (and others) seem to be pushing hard on a “monsters desecrating the corpses” meme this morning … and Obama has declared the rebels responsible. I can only hope that the more cynical European population will recognize and respond appropriately to this pandering and American overreach. As of yesterday, anyway, the consensus was that targeting a clearly marked commercial passenger plane was done in error — by whomever.
Putin categorically claimed that no surface-to-air rocket launchers crossed from Russia into the Ukraine (but given his extensive knowledge of the black arts, doubter apparently believe he could materialized them wherever and whenever, at will, with a shake of his magic wand) — while — on the other hand — the Daily Mail claims to have photos not only of a BUK in the vicinity (Ukraine claims it had none in the rebel-held areas or adjacent) prior to the shoot down, but then — as far as I can tell — allegedly being driven back over the border into Russian territory missing two of its rockets ….
Daily Mail (yes I know untrustworthy tabloid)
The general consensus is that this is all Putin’s fault because the Ukranian Civil War would have been all over by now without his material support to the rebels … one might, of course, say the same thing about the various third parties supporting the rebels in the civil war in Syria.
Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 19 2014 16:51 utc | 128
Read the righteous writing of Pepe Escobar for further information:
http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/
Posted by: madisolation | Jul 19 2014 17:01 utc | 129
Susan
EU have the same view as america, you should know that by now.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 17:08 utc | 130
One of the paradoxes in modern day America is that although we reference our “War of Independence” constantly, the population has been indoctrinated to consider all rebellions illegitimate (and all of those borders drawn on maps to be inviolate) while European history, having actually been the site of two world wars and various now-largely-forgotten empires, is “different.” While “America” emerged enormously stronger (invigorated even) from the two World Wars, Europe lived with the destruction (both physical and social) in the aftermath of both wars for decades.
While Americans who have been taught to view geopolitical conflicts as extended sporting events, in which the victor is always the most righteous (because God decides these things and God loves us — and — despite the existence of deep pocket sport franchises annually engaging in lopsided outcome almost-assured competitions).
Many Americans, as far as I can tell, truly believe, in fact, that might makes right. I’m doubtful the Europeans hold that sentiment dear.
Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 19 2014 17:30 utc | 131
finishing thought: I wonder if the European population considers maintaining the unity of the Ukraine something worth fighting for … Americans tend to be very concrete about such things (see our Prison Industrial Complex) and believe that if someone “breaks the rules” they must be punished and, in contrast, might well support a war based solely on that principle. I’m hopeful that European experience will temper the outrage here — no matter how much Poroshenko and Obama attempt to fan the flames.
Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jul 19 2014 17:34 utc | 132
Paul Craig Roberts has his own view about MH17:
Sanctions and Airliners — Paul Craig Roberts – PaulCraigRoberts.org
NOTE: Photos are now available of the wreckage from the Malaysian airliner crash. Notice the extensive debris and the large section of fuselage. You are observing remains of an airliner that was hit with a missile at 33,000 feet and fell to impact land. Remember, no such debris was present at the site where the airliner is alleged to have hit the Pentagon and at the alleged crash site in Pennsylvania of the 4th 9/11 hijacked airliner. Give that some thought. No doubt but that the 9/11 Commission will conclude that only Malaysian airliners leave debris.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 19 2014 17:35 utc | 133
@ 127
thanks for the link to Pepe…
@ 128 I disagree… protests are being held all over the EU today… are there any being held in America?
—————-
As for the ban in France, at first glance I thought the same as a poster upthread. However, a full reading reveals that France is very divided population/support between zionists and muslims. Remember the synagogue episode recently? Police have banned the demonstration fearing a repeat of violence. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that it is not a ban against pro-Palestinian supporters per se. ymmv
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 17:42 utc | 134
crone
Protests against what?
I am speaking about EU stance on this, they blame Russia, who are you talking about?
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 17:58 utc | 135
crone 132
Actually it is why else ban it specifically?
More on this here:
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/synagogue-attributed-semitism.html
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 18:00 utc | 136
@ 133
Well, your statement was very general… seemed applicable to any topic. Apologize if I misunderstood.
As for protests, I was speaking of pro-Palestinian…
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 18:03 utc | 137
I searched, but unable to find via google, any pro-Palestinian protests in US today. Here are links to those around the globe:
In Pictures: Global Gaza solidarity protests
Pro-Palestinians rally across France despite protest ban
‘In our thousands, in our millions, we are all Palestinians’: Global anger grows as 15,000 protestors mass outside Israel’s London embassy
In Turkey, rioters attempt to storm Israeli consulate; Polish pro-Palestinian demonstrators assault Jewish tourists Read more: Protests worldwide as Gaza offensive intensifies
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 18:05 utc | 138
Malaysian Airliner Disaster in Ukraine Must Be Investigated Objectively – Putin
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140718/191005003/Malaysian-Airliner-Disaster-in-Ukraine-Must-Be-Investigated.html
Posted by: Paty Kerry | Jul 19 2014 18:12 utc | 139
crone 135
No problem I was talking about the view of EU on the crash though.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 18:16 utc | 140
what i find really shocking is the international support for israels actions.. that really blows my mind..
Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside… and international politicians want to show their support for israel.. talk about having your head up your ass..
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/military-destroyed-hospital.html
Posted by: james | Jul 19 2014 18:36 utc | 141
What big deal about AIDS researchers killed? They only good for degenerate homosexuals, enemies of the family and God. Death to Western liberal trash.
Posted by: Igor | Jul 19 2014 18:48 utc | 142
@ 134
Yes, I read the article at Mondo earlier (I read everything at Mondo!)
@ 136 I posted article indicating that protest has gone forward despite the ban…
I don’t know what I think about the rationale behind the ban… so much going on these days, hard to keep up ~ at least for this old lady!
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 19:19 utc | 144
Some (or most?) of the violence in Paris was by Jewish vigilantes, who police decided not to arrest. Video evidence provided in the link.
Samantha “War Criminal Cunt” Power tweets that the airline disaster is just like a Dutch 9/11.
Burn in hell, murderous cunt, burn in hell.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 19 2014 19:26 utc | 146
Posted by: crone | Jul 19, 2014 2:05:37 PM | 136
Many news links say there was a protest in New York on Saturday. But they might be mixed up and thinking of the one held a week ago. If true, it’s a low point for U.S. democracy and a high point for the dominance of pro-militarist propaganda and paranoia about the surveillance state.
@ 145
yes fairleft… and I watched the video you linked @143 ~ why no arrests? (rhetorical ? of course) No consequences means they are in effect given permission to continue attacking protesters… Hollande should know that “hope” doesn’t do a damn thing (just look at America after all that HOPE more than six years ago)
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 19:54 utc | 148
crone
Yes there are too much right now I agree with that, scary when you think how few that actually question whats going on, I mean if WE here at MoA feel overloaded…majority have no idea whats going on they just read the MSM.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 19 2014 19:54 utc | 149
BBC decided to say nothing about the tens of thousands protesting Israels’ assault on Gaza. At least according to the Respect Party website.
from Mondo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KtmUL4IVIq4
Jodi Rudoren’s latest New York Times article, “A Push Into Gaza, but the Ground Has Shifted,” is chock full of claims that Benjamin Netanyahu is being tempered in his ground invasion into Gaza. The piece seems designed to lead the reader to believe there’s reluctance and caution going forward from the Israeli side. She even quotes Einat Wilf, a former center-left member of Israel’s Parliament saying that Netanyahu’s actions are “prudent”. As if the Israeli political discourse is logical.
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israel-in-pickle.html
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 20:05 utc | 151
Story that appeared at the top of Google News for several hours today:
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17: Rebels hamper access to crash site
Meanwhile, in this video, the Premier of the DPR said that international investigators are staying in Kiev and have not yet arrived and only say they will arrive tomorrow afternoon, that Kiev appears to be delaying their arrival and has not offered to create humanitarian corridors. He is afraid that Kiev is trying to sabotage the investigations. He is outraged that the international community is delaying removal of the bodies, which are in 30° temperatures. In general, it appears that the investigators want to have as little to do with the rebels as possible and are dragging things out.
In one case, a body fell through a woman’s house and fell onto her bed. The rebels tell her it has to stay there until international investigators arrive. The junta continues with its shelling, so conditions at the crash cite are precarious.
The only people who have arrived so far are OSCE observers; no experts capable of carrying on an investigation have arrived. The investigation seems to be completely politicized against the rebels. Boroday is adamant that the rebels do not have a usable medium range missile system and is very angry.
@ 150
During the run-up to attack on Iraq in late ’92 and early ’93, http://stopthewar.co.uk/ was my go to spot… they’re extremely organized. And when Geo Galloway was kicked out of the Labour Party for opposing Blair wrt Iraq, he joined the Respect Party and eventually became its leader (here’s link http://www.respectparty.org/ ) I have the greatest ‘respect’ (no pun intended!)for all of them.
BBC has gone to H#$* They’re been/are being protested all over UK
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hundreds-protest-against-bbc-proisrael-bias-of-gaza-coverage-in-cities-across-the-uk-9609016.html
http://www.nottinghampost.com/Hundreds-protest-BBC-s-pro-Israel-bias-Gaza/story-21655983-detail/story.html
zerohedge has informative piece:
Death Toll Hits 330 As Israel Uncovers 13 Tunnels, Faces “Suicide Donkeys”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-19/death-toll-hits-330-israel-uncovers-13-tunnels-faces-suicide-donkeys
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 20:20 utc | 153
From the BBC website….http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28383460
Posted by: dh | Jul 19 2014 21:01 utc | 154
question: videos/photos showing the bodies of passengers, show no evidence of burning. Is that unusual?
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 22:06 utc | 155
Posted by: dh | Jul 19, 2014 5:01:00 PM | 154
I’m pretty sure the Respect Party is referring to TV news coverage in Britain, which I can’t monitor but presumably Respect did.
Just posted this over at the horrible Guardian:
The hysterical coverage by the Guardian is expected but still scandalous. What are you trying to do, start a war?
There _is_ international access to the crash site, and OSCE observers are there. The actual experts are sitting in Kiev, unwilling or not allowed to go to the site although no one is stopping them.
About this Guardian article, for which comments are not permitted:Putin’s hard line on MH17 will only push Russia into an ever-tighter corner
So calling for a full and independent examination of the circumstances of the crash is a ‘hard line’? Sounds instead like judicious common sense.
Stop the pro-war, anti-Russia hysteria and let’s find out what really happened to MH-17 before we try, convict, and invade Russia.
Also posted 342 Palestinians, 5 Israelis Killed in Gaza Conflict; Media Disinfo or No Info a few minutes ago. So much disinfo right now, so little time …
@ 154
Here it is dh @ Respect Party’s website
http://www.respectparty.org/2014/07/19/tens-of-thousands-march-through-london-the-bbc-is-silent/
There’s a report as well as a screen shot of BBC’s website:
” Crowds of tens of thousands gathered in Central London today to protest at the on-going military actions of Israel in the Gaza Strip. Estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000, making this one of the largest demonstrations in recent years in Britain.
Not that you’d know it had even taken place if you relied on the BBC – that’s the British Broadcasting Corporation, I remind you. Despite the fact that this demonstration to highlight the war crimes currently being perpetrated against Palestinian men, women and children in the Gaza Strip brought central London to a virtual standstill all day, the BBC have instead decided that reporting on a small outbreak of food poisoning at Glasgow’s Commonwealth Games village is a more important story than the mobilisation in London”
There’s more of the article…
Then there’s this https://www.facebook.com/ukrespectparty?ref=stream
I think Respect is referring to a news blackout in UK.
Posted by: crone | Jul 19 2014 22:42 utc | 158
E. Ukraine Airspace Was Closed to Level 32,000 ft
Eurocontrol says flight MH-17 was 1,000 ft above closed airspace
LONDON (Reuters) – A Malaysian airliner which crashed in Ukraine was flying at 33,000 feet, some 1,000 feet above a closed section of airspace, an agency responsible for co-ordinating European airspace reiterated.
“According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar,” Brussels-based Eurocontrol said.
“This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 (approximately 32,000 feet) but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying.”
Since the crash, all airspace in eastern Ukraine has been closed up to an unlimited height, the statement said.
[See my earlier comment the MH-17 flights had been flying at 35,000 ft, starting on July 16 this was lowered to 33,000 ft in appoach to Donetsk region – Oui]
European Authorities’ Statements on Downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17
Eurocontrol, the European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation issued a statement regarding MH17:
Our thoughts are with the families and friends of those on board. According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar. This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying.
Since the crash, the Ukrainian authorities have informed Eurocontrol of the closure of routes from the ground to unlimited in Eastern Ukraine (Dnipropetrovsk Flight Information Region). All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected by Eurocontrol. The routes will remain closed until further notice.
The European Aviation Crisis Coordination Cell is being activated to coordinate the response to the impact of the airspace closure.
FAA releases a new Notice to Airman (NOTAM) on July 18, 2014
Posted this in response to disinfo in a question under my Guardian (use the link, it’s a great one for combating the ‘rebels are blocking access’ lie):
Last heard where, from whom? Kiev is delaying transporting the experts to the site. The Donetsk People’s Republic representatives have said the experts are allowed onto the site. Why is Kiev holding up on transporting them? Here is the real news:
Fourteen representatives from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) arrived at the site on Friday to conduct inspection there, he said.
Borodai had held talks with the OSCE representatives and the two sides agreed to set up a security zone at the site in order to facilitate the investigation. Insurgents will guarantee the safety of all the international investigators and do their best to help the probe.
According to information offered by the Ukrainian side, Borodai said, 16 experts from Malaysia and 14 others from Britain are expected to arrive in Kiev on Saturday.
Borodai urged arrival of the experts at the site as early as possible because it is difficult to preserve the bodies of the victims under a temperature soaring over 30 degrees Celsius.
CNN Report: Did surface-to-air missile S-200 take down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17?
I haven’t seen an analysis from air defense experts, but the BUK-M1 has a 70 kg (154 lb) warhead which is triggered by a radar proximity fuse.
When the target is within the lethal radius of the weapon’s warhead, a proximity fuse, usually radar, detonates the warhead, commonly a high explosive/fragmentation type and destroys the target. Most weapons have miss distances of the order of metres.
How does the damage inflicted by a BUK missile compare with the S-300 long range version with comparable payload but higher speed and semi-active radar homing (SARH) guidance mode. Can be fitted with two warheads: 70-100 kg high explosive – 5V55K or 145 kg high explosive – 48N6 S-300PMU1.
Ukraine holds military parade on Independence Day – Aug. 26, 2008
BUK-M1 mobile air defence systems of the 11th Air Defence Regiment of the Western Air Command; Vega air defence systems of the Kiev 6th Air Defence Brigade; and a division of S-300PS surface-to-air missiles, which can shoot down aircraft and missiles flying at 4,000 km per hour at the range of up to 90 km and height of up to 30 km.
Ukroboronservice to upgrade additional Ukrainian S-300PS air defence system
(May 20, 2014) – Ukraine’s state enterprise Ukroboronservice is in talks to upgrade an additional S-300PS surface-to-air missile (SAM) defence system for the Ukrainian armed forces.
If the talks are finalised, the company will repair the system and extend its service life by seven years before handing it over to a unit of the Ukrainian armed forces’ air force by the end of June 2014.
The company recently delivered an upgraded S-300PS air-defence system to the air force, following an intermediate repair on life extension by a total of five years.
In addition to this, the company is also expected to hand over an upgraded Buk-M1 mobile air defence system to the service early next month.
Ukroboronprom acting director general Yuriy Tereshchenko said the actions towards strengthening the sky space of the country is an important focus of the concern’s activity.
“Under the conditions of stable financing, Ukroboronprom’s companies are able in sufficiently close perspective to upgrade air defense system of Ukraine qualitatively,” Tereshchenko said.
During the upgrade of the next Buk-M1 system, the company specialists are expected to mount the system on an advanced Ukrainian radar station, developed at State Enterprise Scientific and Production Complex, Iskra, instead of a Russian-built station.
Code-named SA-10 Grumble, the S-300PS has an operational range of 90km, and was introduced to the Soviet armed forces in 1985. The system features 5V55R missiles, and is designed to lock in on a target following launch using an active detection system that steers the missile directly at the target.
Developed by NPO Almaz Bureau, the S-300 is a mobile, long-range air defence system designed to detect, track and destroy incoming cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and high and low-flying strike aircraft.
When Isreal is Mighty
writer Yossi Gurvitz on Isreal’s religious zionists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY
some excerpts:
Rabbinical Judaism …defines only jews as humans…. And everyone else is some level of ‘other’, that must be pushed aside…
There must be cleansings. Religious laws prohibits contact with non-jews… Other laws prevent you from treating them fairly. There is no prohibition on stealing from a non-jew – except in order to “keep the peace”. …
Religious zionists have a serious problem with the fact that there are any non-jews here. … And look, now they are starting to talk about genocide….You have the book “Torat Hamelich” (King’s Torah), which tells you that you can kill children…. And its no wonder it became a best-seller.
…Now the situation for the Christians, on the other hand, will be really bad… they are idolaters, and you have to kill them, even if they do not resist jewish rule. In Jerusalem, religious seminary students have a despicable
habit: they urinate and defecate on churches… Spitting on clergymen on the street is something that
happens regularly. If the priest has the gall to hit the person back … then he is deported, quietly… Christianity,
which is the historical arch-enemy of Judaism, is going to get a serious beating…
Posted by: pantaraxia | Jul 19 2014 23:40 utc | 166
Maybe the London protestors are too well behaved…
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28388457
Posted by: dh | Jul 19 2014 23:50 utc | 167
@138
http://www.northjersey.com/news/world/local-community-shows-support-of-palestinians-1.1054058
Very bland reportage…..the comments following the article are very indicative of the mentality and understanding of the situation…..
Posted by: georgeg | Jul 20 2014 0:10 utc | 168
MH17 Shootdown Shows Chaff Was Deployed & The MH17 Shootdown interesting read.
Posted by: Banray | Jul 20 2014 1:02 utc | 169
Comment hijacked from another forum, wrt I/P
“The feeling of powerlessness is contagious, but one alternative is to clarify that this should be question of civil rights and equal citizenship, with Gaza as Soweto writ large.
The basic Israeli Jewish fear is rather like that of the old South African establishment, or even that of the Roman patriarch Cato the Elder: “Allow women to become your equals, and they will be your superiors.”
One writer, Jewish if I am correct, put it bluntly that there three possible types of solutions in Palestine/Israel — with variations, I’d add, but with his alternatives very telling.
The Tasmanian Solution (total genocide or ethnic cleansing of the indigenous inhabitants, here Palestinian Arabs) is impractical — or so we hope.
A South African solution (equal citizenship) is the sane choice.
The third alternative, sooner or later, is an Algerian solution — where the Zionist immigrants end up by leaving.
Economic and political symbiosis, where Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews could join in an Israel with a new constitution based on equal citizenship, is a way to break out of the conflict as it has been defined for the last 67 years. It may not succeed, but I’d call it the last, best hope for peace — and worldwide support for that direction might have an impact on the immediate parties.”
Posted by: crone | Jul 20 2014 1:03 utc | 170
Robert Parry’s US intelligence contacts told him something interesting:
Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, I’m told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels who have been resisting the regime in Kiev since elected President Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown on Feb. 22.
According to a source briefed on the tentative findings, the soldiers manning the battery appeared to be wearing Ukrainian uniforms and may have been drinking, since what looked like beer bottles were scattered around the site. But the source added that the information was still incomplete and the analysts did not rule out the possibility of rebel responsibility.
I think that that this is coming out so early shows that the neocon/Ukie psy-op is going to run into trouble.
@169
Banray, THANKS for those links… really interesting. Am sharing them!
Posted by: crone | Jul 20 2014 1:50 utc | 172
@Demian – 171
Are we seeing a replay of the Ghouta incident in Syria with the politicians going crazy based on some very fragmented, flimsy, intelligence, and the higher-ups in the army and some factions of the 3-letter spooks services force a climb-down?
Posted by: Philippe | Jul 20 2014 2:31 utc | 173
@crone #172:
Unfortunately, the author of the article at the second link seems to be a bit of a nut. His bête noir appears to be the Deutscher Veranstaltungsdienst (which he only refers to by the acronym DVD; I had never heard of it). In this article he writes, “I am increasingly swinging towards the view that AIDS was created by the DVD as a bio-weapon.” He also claims that the shootdown of MH17 was ordered by DVD, not by the USG.
Hello! Germany is a colony of the US! German intelligence agencies can’t carry out conspiracies to control the world in order to indulge the whims of nutty German intelligence officials!
@Philippe #173:
Sure looks to me that we are seeing a replay of the Ghouta incident. It remains to be seen whether US spooks are going to be able to influence USG to climb down. I can see where US spooks would have an interest in doing that though, since this op strikes me as pretty obvious and transparent, so I believe it can backfire fairly quickly. To repeat, at least US and Russian intelligence probably have a pretty accurate picture of what happened, and who did the shooting.
I am beginning to think that Obama himself is a zombie (I hope that that does not come across as racist), like his dead-end followers.
Mondo has a transcript of State Department press… apparently family members of the murdered/burned Palestinian teen have been arrested and are being detained by IDF… additional comments about Turkey…
Ms. Psaki reminds me of Ari Fleischer…
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/relatives-jerusalem-concerned.html
Posted by: crone | Jul 20 2014 3:00 utc | 175
@Banray #169:
Yes, both of those links are very interesting and well worth looking at. Although the guy at the second link has nutty ideas, as I said, I think that the arguments he makes as to why the rebels could not have shot down the airliner are perfectly sound.
As for the first link, with its point about chaff being seen coming down at the crash site: that confirms the line that Colonel Cassad has been taking, that two fighters were pursuing MH17.
The plot thickens.
via Global Research
Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?
Update: The later part of this article refers to information provided by the Kiev Spanish air controller. Since posting this article, we have received reports to the effect that the twitter report of the Spanish Air controller at Kiev Borisol airport is “fake” and that the twitter message were sent out of London.
We will be investigating the matter.
immediately after the downing of MH17, an adviser to the Ukrainian Minister of Internal Affairs Mr. Anton Gerashchenko stated categorically that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 MH17:
“had been downed by an air defense missile system Buk” (without however mentioning who was behind the missile operation)
According to the Ukraine Interfax News Agency Anton Gerashchenko, “said on Facebook that the plane was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher.” According to the Strait Times:
Mr Gerashchenko was quoted as saying: “A civilian airliner travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has just been shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft system… 280 passengers and 15 crew have been killed.”
How could he have known what type of missile system had brought down the plane? His statement contradicts that of the Ukrainian military.
Gerashchenko runs a ministry of interior propaganda program at the http://www.stopterror.in.ua website. See also http://uacrisis.org/anton-gerashhenko/
How could he have been privy to this information of a military nature prior to the conduct of an investigation on the ground? Unless the Ministry of the Interior was directly involved.
It should be noted that the Ministry of Interior, largely under the control of the two Neo-Nazi parties Svoboda and Right Sector is responsible for “internal” military operations directed against rebel forces in Lugansk and Donbass, in coordination with the Armed Forces. The Ministry oversees both The Interior Troops of Ukraine (Внутрішні війська України, Vnutrisni Viys’ka Ukrayiny (VVU )) as well the National Guard (integrated by Right Sector militia).
The Spanish Air Controller’s Report at Kiev Borisol Airport
According to the controversial report of the Spanish air controller at Kiev Borisol airport there was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17 flight which took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine warzone.
The Spanish air controller intimates that the order to down the aircraft came from the Ministry of the Interior (Ministry of Internal Affairs) and not from the Military.
He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it was downed.
“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”
It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish air traffic controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region.
What is of significance is that the announcement of the downing of the aircraft (by a missile) by Kiev was almost immediate.
According to the Spanish air controller, the air control tower was informed of the downing of the aircraft at 12.00 hours, approximately ten minutes after it disappeared from the radar screen (11.50 hours). How could they have known unless they had concrete details on how it was shot down?
con’t http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukraines-ministry-of-interior-behind-the-downing-of-malaysian-airlines-mh17/5391909
Posted by: crone | Jul 20 2014 5:58 utc | 177
@crone – #177
Similar deductions reported here …
○ Pepe Escobar: It was Putin’s missile?
○ V.M. Molotov: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation
○ Zero Edge: Final Moments Of Flight MH-17: The Russian Side Of The Story
Just today Israel have killed 40 palestinians,
http://rt.com/news/173708-israel-gaza-ground-operation/
This is nothing but a genocide.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 20 2014 9:28 utc | 179
Listening to Weekend Edition this morning I got inkling of why they call it National Pentagon Radio. The host was interviewing someone at the crash site of the airliner in Eastern Ukraine, and made two inferences: 1) Rebels are stealing bodies, and 2) (and this was so clever), he repeated an accusation by Kiev that rebels were altering the crash site. The on-site person said yes, indeed, people had said that wreckage seen the day before was not present the following day.
Got that? Here’s what we know: A reporter gave second-hand knowledge of missing debris. The host allowed the Kiev accusation through without a rebel response. The inference of the news report: Rebels have altered the crash site. But what do we know for certain? Nothing. Agents of CIA, MI6, or Kiev could have as easily removed debris, stolen bodies, altered the crash sites.
NPR is subtly inferring the the rebels shot down the airliner. Nice job, apparatchiks!
Posted by: Mark Tokarski | Jul 20 2014 15:38 utc | 180
Alexander Borodai, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AuZ1Ok3s_I
A Soldier’s Mother in West Ukraine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurwhSvJ8uM
Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Jul 20 2014 16:02 utc | 181
“I’m [Robert Parry] told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels who have been resisting the regime in Kiev since elected President Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown on Feb. 22.”
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/07/this-countrys-going-to-war-ttg.html
Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Jul 20 2014 16:04 utc | 182
Consortium’s
Parry says he heard from some CIA analysts that it might have been drunken Ukrainian soldiers who shot down that jet.
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 20 2014 16:19 utc | 183
Some good news for a change: 13 Israeli scum soldiers killed overnight in Gaza, 2 of them apparently traitorous US scum.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way to hell, war criminals.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 20 2014 16:26 utc | 184
From Zero Hedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-20/over-50-killed-gaza-israel-shelling-fiercest-1967-war
Finally, the reason why it is all about to get much worse, is that in an interview with Cannel 2 TV, the Israeli Minister of Intelligence and Strategic Affairs Yuval Steinitz said the military may take control of Hamas-controlled territory for several months to “dismantle the terror army.” Needless to say such an act would provoke a firestorm, literally, of desperation from Hamas which would almost certainly lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent bystanders in the latest sharp escalation of a conflict that goes back countless years.
Posted by: pantaraxia | Jul 20 2014 16:35 utc | 185
I don’t see how the black boxes can identify where and who fired the shot,although they will determine time and possibly,from clues, where it hit.(or possible pilot comments)Unless they are omnipotent machines.
Fairleft;Well as few Arabs or Muslims are even allowed to pierce all the Hebrew rubbish(good one!) we are inflicted with,aren’t you being a little pedantic or maybe even a little fork tongued in critique of one of the few honest voices left as crumbs by the serial lying MSM?
I do acknowledge that some Arabs and alleged Muslims can not be paragons of truthiness either.(Al Jazeera in particular,after Col K i don’t go there anymore,ugh.)
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 20 2014 16:52 utc | 186
israeli use human shields
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Israel
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 20 2014 17:12 utc | 187
Is there a war crime that Israel hasn’t committted?
Israel using flechette rounds in Gaza.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 20 2014 18:30 utc | 188
israel is a bully.. it’s interesting how many countries are siding with the bully.. i thought bullying was a problem being addressed in the public sphere.. letting it happen on an international level and not addressing it, or worse – supporting it – it truly pathetic..
Posted by: james | Jul 20 2014 19:06 utc | 189
latest article from”>http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/the-department-of-making-shit-up-welcomes-new-rising-star-daniel-bilak/#more-3015>from the kremlin stooge from the kremlin stooge.
Posted by: james | Jul 20 2014 20:54 utc | 190
@ 188
appreciate the link… am sharing.
————-
via Pat Lang
As sad as it is to say, the main effects of this round of fighting in Gaza will be found; 1- in the worldwide political damage done to Israel for the callous massacre of civilians and 2- the impact on Israeli and more importantly American popular opinion of a high Israeli military body count. Throughout previous Israeli operations intended to “mow the grass,” in Gaza, the IDF has operated with impunity, able to continue from day to day without major fear of the likelihood of its own casualties in dead and wounded. If these present reports are correct, that has changed. The American people have many admirable characteristics but their inability to see virtue in “losers” is not one of them. An ability on the part of the Hamas/IJ fighters to inflict casualties on the IDF would raise the public image of the Palestinians in America. According to the Israel FB page, Hamas now says that it will equip large numbers of Gazan youth with grenades and send them against IDF forces in suicide attacks. The Israelis do not seem to understand how potent a weapon that would be. pl
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-20/gaza-death-toll-soars-beyond-400/5610270
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/20/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FP00U20140720
some very good comments there
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/07/belgium-centenary-reprise-dinant-1914-gaza-2014-by-wp.html#comments
Posted by: crone | Jul 20 2014 23:13 utc | 191
Found this quite mindboggling Interpol puts ex-governor of Kharkiv region Avakov on wanted list & Avakov: Interpol to help identify Malaysia Airlines Boeing crash victims All is well and forgiven?
Posted by: Banray | Jul 21 2014 0:10 utc | 192
hey JSorr, cheering death on either side is despicable. FYI.
Posted by: lizard | Jul 21 2014 2:34 utc | 193
No, it’s really not, you fucking prude. Think people were squeamish about cheering on the deaths of Nazis in WWII? Here’s a hint: No, they weren’t. Oh but the new fake left says that I can’t say certain things, right?
Get fucked.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 21 2014 3:41 utc | 194
Nope, since we’re all politically correct and shit I guess we are all forced to equalize the deaths of a trapped indigenous population who are being slaughtered with the deaths of the aggressor volunteer army of the genocidal Israelis, right?
Can’t say what I really think, right? That the people fucking RESPONSIBLE for this inhuman slaughter deserve – at the very least – the deaths they’ve been handed, right?
Seriously, go fuck yourself, you brainwashed stoolie.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 21 2014 3:46 utc | 195
And then retards like yourself wonder why oh why no progress is ever made towards the betterment of mankind and peace and all that shit we all want, well here’s another fucking clue:
It’s because you’ve all been so brainwashed/pussified that you aren’t – even in the face of the most horrible and inhuman atrocities – able to pick a fucking side due to the fake moral equivalency that’s been rammed into your mind.
Don’t fucking tell me who I can’t be glad is dead, you fucking pissant.
Oh but just you meant…fuck you
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 21 2014 3:54 utc | 196
Meant to be:
Oh, but you just meant….
Seriously, what is it with the fake left and their belief that they can tall others how they should fucking feel in the face of life’s horrors?
What, you’re…what? A fucking psychologist? Elie Wiesel? MLK? Gandhi? Fuck off.
People who spend their time on this planet slaughtering people etc don’t deserve a second fucking thought when they die by their own petards or is that too fucking complicated for you to understand?
The deaths of defenseless Palestinians IS DEFINITELY and INFINITELY more despicable than the deaths of their murderers. Sorry, I had to put it in print so as to hurt your “morality” but that’s life.
Jesus fucking christ.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 21 2014 4:03 utc | 197
Adding x2:
I understand that the Israeli army is not volunteer but those who serve can resist serving without being jailed/killed that’s why I called it “volunteer”. I felt like I had to add this before the know-it-all scolds wasted everyone’s time with rebuttals that deflected away from their own cowardice in understanding that if fate cuts short the lives of murderers and killers that does not mean us survivors have to sit around and be polite about the deceased’s worthless existences.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 21 2014 4:13 utc | 198
My two kopeks on the Malaysian airliner disaster:
The United States and the Kiev government are morally capable of doing such a thing, but both are probably aware that it would be a useless stunt (it could be assumed that it wouldn’t make any changes to the political situation, and indeed it hasn’t). In addition, it would be an extremely risky stunt because the Ukrainian firing the missile might have subsequently defected and blabbed. On the whole, I find this unconvincing.
In which case, since the Eastern Ukrainians are known to have the weaponry capable of shooting down high-altitude aircraft, since their air-traffic-control has been disrupted by the war, and since they have a strong motive for shooting at any aircraft which approaches since it might be a strike or supply plane for the Kiev forces, that seems the most likely answer.
The behaviour of the parties concerned is unsurprising. Of course the Eastern Ukrainians would deny. So would the Russians. What have they to gain by telling the truth if it harms them? Of course the Kiev government would bullshit. What else have they done throughout the war? Of course the Americans and their satellites would bluster. What do you expect from them?
Meanwhile, if I were a Kiev air force pilot I would be thinking seriously about mutiny, because it looks increasingly as if flying over the Donbass is going to become suicidal.
Posted by: The Creator | Jul 21 2014 4:43 utc | 199
So Israel kill what? 90 people in a massacre but UN cant condemn it!?
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 21 2014 6:35 utc | 200