Who “Interferes” In Iraq?

June 21, 2014

a. The act or an instance of hindering, obstructing, or impeding.
b. Something that hinders, obstructs, or impedes.

This lack of self-awareness of U.S. functionaries is embarressing:

Iran has sent "small numbers" of operatives into Iraq to bolster the Shiite-led government in Baghdad, but there is no sign of a large deployment of army units, the Pentagon said Friday.
…
"There are some Iranian revolutionary operatives in Iraq but I've seen no indication of ground forces or major units," [Pentagon spokesman Admiral John] Kirby told a news conference, apparently referring to Tehran's Quds force, the covert arm of the Revolutionary Guard Corps.
…
"Their interference in Iraq is nothing new," Kirby said.
…
President Barack Obama announced Thursday plans to send up to 300 US military advisers to Iraq but stopped short of ordering air strikes against ISIL forces, though he left the door open to that possibility.

What is Iran hindering, obstructing or impeding?

How does the Admiral characterizes U.S. deployments to Iraq?

Posted by b on June 21, 2014 at 07:07 UTC | Permalink

Comments

@97. Or maybe Jordan doesn’t want to be liquidated? Maybe Crimea wants to be part of Russia? Maybe Turkey won’t accept an independent Kurdistan? Maybe Muktada’s forces will trash ISIS? Maybe the Iranians really would close the Straits of Hormuz if they are attacked? The best laid Yinon Plans of mice and men….

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 20:18 utc | 101

@ 91-97 (not incl. 95)
Those latest few comments were like listening in on the conversation at the dumbest “Think-tank” ever,
Yes, but using militant Sunni jihadists to do so and assuming they can be contained ultimately while Israel expands?
Worse than inept.
Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 21, 2014 3:20:10 PM | 93
LOL
these militant Sunni Jihadis that supposedly hate Israel, and have been sitting right next to it in war-torn Syria, while being armed to the gills, for the past year or so, but somehow forgot to lift so much as a finger against their supposed foe, the Zionist state of Israel?
Oh yeah – I’ll bet the IDF high command is absolutely terrified of those guys alright

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 20:20 utc | 102

The other matter regarding Yinon and Jordan is that the peace treaty between Israel and Jordan was signed in 1994; the Yinon plan dates from 1982.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21, 2014 4:17:14 PM | 100
the Israelis of course have never been known to break a treaty or a ceasefire.
We are talking about the same Israel here, right?
There’s not some other “Israel” knocking around, that no one told me about, is there?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 20:22 utc | 103

@90 Of course I do you twerp. I suppose I should have put observers in inverted commas to help you.
Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 3:07:31 PM | 91
ops – silly me I forgot completely that extremely boring people, such as yourself, rarely have much of a sense of humour
I’ll try not to make any more jokes when addressing you in future, dh. Clearly, trying to parse them stresses you out too much.
My apologies for all the stress caused by you being confronted with some humour

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 20:27 utc | 104

@100
Well, Camp David Accords were signed between Egypt and Israel in 1978. Thus co-opted. Jordan took a little longer to co-opt.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 21 2014 20:33 utc | 105

@103
And?
The Yinon plan was based on a certain set of assumptions, including that the only available natural gas would be in Sinai. All that the Yinon plan tells us is the mentality of the Israeli elite; the calculations are based on 32 year old data, that is largely defunct, especially in light of the Gaza gas field. While divide and rule is expected, there have been multiple forms in the last 32 years. Until the latest crisis, Iraq was already de facto divided, with a puppet regime and a laughable military. Normally, when a treaty is renounced, some benefit must result; what might that be in the Jordanian case? Is the Mukhabarat threatening Israel?

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21 2014 20:44 utc | 106

from Debka
http://www.debka.com/article/24024/Netanyahu-to-Obama-IDF-on-the-Jordan-is-sole-security-guarantee-against-ISIS-for-Israel-Hashemite-kingdom-and-Palestinians
are these as reconcilable as a dispensationalist’s reading of the Book of Revelation?
Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 21, 2014 3:07:59 PM | 92
What Israel talks about doing, and what it actually does are 2 very different things – and using debka as a ‘source’ is hilarious
For example if Israel really wanted to launch Airstrikes against Iran, at any time over the last 20 years or more that they have been loudly talking about doing it, it would have done so by now
There’s been decades of tough-talk about Israel launching Airstrikes against Iran, but absolutely no action on that subject
You Ineptitudes really need to learn the difference between “talk” and “action”.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 20:47 utc | 107

Even Jordan’s natural resources are not exactly helpful to Israel—the gas is generally toward the Iraqi border, and the oil is so shitty that it has one seventh the specific energy of coal.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21 2014 21:02 utc | 108

Normally, when a treaty is renounced, some benefit must result; what might that be in the Jordanian case? Is the Mukhabarat threatening Israel?
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21, 2014 4:44:03 PM | 106
You might benefit from reading some of the works of Jabotinsky.
He had LOTS to say about “East Jordan”
Frm well before 1948 the Zio-Nazis had clear designs on steal as much of the land EAST of the River Jordan as they could get away with too. – loath though I am to link to Wiki, see for example – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_East_Bank_of_the_Jordan

“Two Banks has the Jordan – This is ours and, that is as well.”

Menachim Begin, founder of LIKUD, a group which were brought back into the fold just in time for the slaughter of 1967, was a BIG fan of Jabotinsky.-
Likud is now led by Benni Nethanyahu – Benni Nethanyahu’s Father is a BIG fan of Jabotinsky.
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that Benni is also a fan of Jabotinsky
Here’s a youtube link to a video of a speech by the Arch-Zio-Nazi himself, Jabotinsky, filmed in 1934 (12yrs AFTER the establishment of Trans-Jordan, and 14 yrs before the establishment of the Zionist state) where he is STILL waffling on about his desire to grab Trans-Jordan, EAST of the river Jordan.
It’s in Yiddish and there’s no subtitles available, but anyone that has a smattering of German can clearly understand that he is talking about Trans-Jordan and “Water Sources”.
Yiddish Jabotinsky 1934 Jewish Palestine – ייִדיש – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErYszt-b7OQ
Note the description:

Jewish Eastern Palestine,

a Jewish state extending on both sides of the Jordan River.

So the idea that Israel would have no profit from taking out Jordan is seriously flawed

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 21:04 utc | 109

@103
And?
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21, 2014 4:44:03 PM | 106
actually it appears I misunderstood the gist of your comment @100 – apologies for that

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 21:11 utc | 110

Looks like the ISIS’s onslaught has hit a brick wall. They’re only vibrant in “Sunni” dominated villages up North. Their march towards the capital has almost evaporated.
Goes to show the stupidity of the guys that control these groups. A guerilla group trying to fight like a conventional force, taking over huge swathe of land is a sure recipe for disaster. As their actions have shown in Syria, they can’t hold on to territory for much longer.
The impending mass slaughter of ISIS/ISIL and their affiliates/supporters will make Syria look like picnic.
The rally today in Sadr city of Muqtadar’s men and many other similar armed groups should make any ISIL/ISIS planner crap their pants.
Stay tuned. This war will end with the destruction of the Suadi dynasty.

Posted by: Zico | Jun 21 2014 21:20 utc | 111

Pretty sure whoever controls these groups (lets call the controllers “the Empire” just for a laugh eh?) don’t expect them to hold, for very long, the territory they have over-run.
Most of that territory is basically desert, and of not much use if you use if you fight using Guerilla tactics, cos there’s hardly anywhere to hide – I’m pretty sure that the Empire, the controllers of ISIS, knows this already
This war will end with the destruction of the Saudi dynasty.
Posted by: Zico | Jun 21, 2014 5:20:51 PM | 111
you might be right

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 21:29 utc | 112

The rally today in Sadr city of Muqtadar’s men and many other similar armed groups should make any ISIL/ISIS planner crap their pants.
Well if a new war in Iraq, involving Iran and Shiite groups, is the Empire’s aim with their ISIS proxy, then “Muqtadar’s men and many other similar armed groups” will make them very very happy indeed, won’t it?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 21:36 utc | 113

@113 Alternatively if Muqtadr’s forces trash ISIS the Empire will be very unhappy. You seem to be floundering a bit today.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 21:44 utc | 114

24
“…in order to protect the oil installations of Chinese and Russian companies or face a sky high oil price that threatens to kill their economy.”
What makes you think US-IL-KSA is trying to hold down oil prices and ‘save the economy’? Every single piece of evidence is exactly the opposite, since Cheney kicked off the 21st Century Oil Wars with his ‘Yellow Cake’ schtick, and spiked oil from $15 a barrel to $147. Wouldn’t you think he’d be worried about ‘killing the economy’? He made $500 MILLION off that one oil war! The Saudis rake in ONE BILLION DOLLARS A DAY in excess oil profits now. Do you think they care about ‘saving the economy’? Seriously?
The competing oil industries have had to pour trillions into keeping current oil production barely flat at ever-increasing marginal costs. North Sea is falling off. Mexican Gulf is falling off. Fracking is a last ditch effort. Alberta has already cut back several large tar sands projects because the price of oil is too LOW. Canada just created their own civil war approving the pipeline to Kitimat, that’s how desperate they are to reach more demand.
There is no ‘economy’ to save. All Fed quantitative easing did was spike asset classes and balloon the power of creditors and rentiers over a pauperized population. QEn introduced crushing inflation in food and energy costs, which Obama will spike again with a National Carbon Tax guaranteed to bump food and energy by 18% …and that’s their own projections! Wait, wouldn’t you think he’d be worried about ‘killing the economy’? Seriously?
Prices rise and demand falls in theory, but if demand is cratering, and Mil.Gov.Sci.Edu tax revenues and Big Oil profits are monopolies dependent on high asset and oil prices, then of course, destroy competing the oil supplies and spike the price of oil! Add a Carbon Tithe! Spike asset prices! Monopolize! Privatize! Bring in 40,000,000 H-1B and Blue Visa workers! QEn+1!! Wait, wouldn’t you think he’d be worried about ‘killing the economy’? Seriously?
It’s not a ‘free market’. There is no ‘level playing field’. These are not ‘democracies.’ The Western economies are crashing. Government drones and oiligarchs will spike prices to keep their cashflow even and meet their operating expenses. They can’t cut taxes and pump their way out of a global demand collapse, so they . will . do . the . opposite.
“Looting!! Looting, Eli, you boy! Drained dry, I’m so sorry.” (from ‘There Will Be Yellin’)

Posted by: chip nikh | Jun 21 2014 21:45 utc | 115

Did you think your song and dance and your superstition would help you, Eli? I am the Third Revelation! I am who the Lord has chosen!
Stop crying, you sniveling ass! Stop your nonsense. You’re just the afterbirth, Eli.
You slithered out of your mother’s filth.
They should have put you in a glass jar on a mantlepiece. Where were you when Paul was suckling at his mother’s teat? Where were you? Who was nursing you, poor Eli? One of Bandy’s sows? That land has been had. Nothing you can do about it. It’s gone. It’s had.
You lose.
Drainage! Drainage, Eli, you boy. Drained dry. I’m so sorry. Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that’s a straw, you see? Watch it. Now, my straw reaches acroooooooss the room and starts to drink your milkshake. I… drink… your… milkshake!
I drink it up!

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 21 2014 22:07 utc | 116

Franklin Lamb has an article out today on the capabilities of ISIS where they claim to have nuclear devices
“Do you think that we do not have access to nuclear devises? The Zionists know that we do and if we ever believe they are about to use theirs we will not hesitate. After the Zionists are gone, Palestine will have to be decontaminated and rebuilt just like areas where there has been radiation released.” These beasts in human form are totally delusional, just as in Syria they will be confronted by such overwhelming force, both Sunni and Shia their gains will be rolled back, hopefully as other comments have suggested the medieval perverts in the GCC end up hanging from lamp posts.http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/06/21/will-isis-create-al-sham-caliphate-and-liberate-palestine/

Posted by: harry law | Jun 21 2014 22:21 utc | 117

Captured ISIS rats..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxykIFt527c
Man, how did they get all them brand spanking new pickups and stuff? I mean, these things cost quite a bit so who’s paying for them?

Posted by: Zico | Jun 21 2014 22:30 utc | 118

ISIL funding becomes increasingly self-sufficient
Precise estimates of ISIL’s wealth are difficult to make, but evidence suggests that the organization’s influence is strengthened by its multi-faceted funding design — a complexity that, according to Duke University Professor David Siegel, makes the organization “better able to resist governmental efforts to limit its funding.” ISIL, as such, is a terrorist organization whose self-sufficiency and diversification give it prolonged staying power.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-350973-isil-funding-becomes-increasingly-self-sufficient.html

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 21 2014 22:33 utc | 119

@113 Alternatively if Muqtadr’s forces trash ISIS the Empire will be very unhappy. You seem to be floundering a bit today.
Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 5:44:12 PM | 114
Well THAT would all depend on what the Empires actual aim is, wouldn’t it, you silly little boring man
Unlike you I don’t presume to know exactly what those aim might be. You and the other Ineptitudes however keep acting as if you can predict exactly what the Empire’s aims are in unleashing ISIS on Iraq, and make silly assumptions based on that. – this is why so much of this is a mystery to you and your ineptitude friends.
It’s simple enough really – I said the Empire may want just to start a new war in Iraq – they may not give a damn what happens to ISIS in that process, as long as the new war gets started, the Empire may be happy enough.
Your problem (well one of them anyway 😉 is you make too many assumptions, most of which later turn out to be wrong. After years and years of doing so, you still are as clueless as you were on day 1 – more so in fact because you still hang on to assumptions that are patently false, such as ISIS NOT being a tool of the Empire.
Chip nikh gives a wonderful example of this above
“…in order to protect the oil installations of Chinese and Russian companies or face a sky high oil price that threatens to kill their economy.”
What makes you think US-IL-KSA is trying to hold down oil prices and ‘save the economy’?
People like you make silly assumption like the one chip nikh is relying to, and that is why you are almost always wrong on this stuff

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 22:39 utc | 120

Captured ISIS rats..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxykIFt527c
Man, how did they get all them brand spanking new pickups and stuff? I mean, these things cost quite a bit so who’s paying for them?
Posted by: Zico | Jun 21, 2014 6:30:56 PM | 118
ISIL funding becomes increasingly self-sufficient
Precise estimates of ISIL’s wealth are difficult to make, but evidence suggests that the organization’s influence is strengthened by its multi-faceted funding design — a complexity that, according to Duke University Professor David Siegel, makes the organization “better able to resist governmental efforts to limit its funding.” ISIL, as such, is a terrorist organization whose self-sufficiency and diversification give it prolonged staying power.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-350973-isil-funding-becomes-increasingly-self-sufficient.html
Posted by: Virgile | Jun 21, 2014 6:33:35 PM | 119

some people really will believe anything if it is printed in a newspaper

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 22:41 utc | 121

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 22:45 utc | 122

You’re a funny guy foff. You accuse other people of what you do yourself.
I don’t assume anything. I just try to understand what’s going on with the information I have. Unlike you I don’t have superior visionary powers so I avoid making unequivocal statements….as per your post #86 where ISIS is clearly an ‘Empire Proxy’. Later modified to ‘lets call the controllers “the Empire” just for a laugh eh?’

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 22:48 utc | 123

you really are a very boring man, dh. All evening I’ve read your (sarcasm trigger warning!! for the humourless and boring) cracking oneliners and haven’t seen an interesting or original thought in any of them
as per your post #86 where ISIS is clearly an ‘Empire Proxy’. Later modified to ‘lets call the controllers “the Empire” just for a laugh eh?’
Oh dear – there ya go with the complete humour failure again. This humour thing really does perplex you, don’t it?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 22:54 utc | 124

OK I think I’ve got it now. So when you contradict yourself that’s humour right? When other people do it they are liars.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 22:57 utc | 125

maybe I should insert some smileys, just for you dh.
That way you might be able to navigate through the complexities of a comment or two, containing some very mild humour, without ending up utterly perplexed, eh?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 22:58 utc | 126

No, no…..not smileys please. So childish. Just keep posting your usual stuff. I get lots of laughs out of it.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 23:00 utc | 127

125
ok, you assumed it was a contradiction, because you are a humourless boring individual and again assumed that everyone else is also as humourless as you are
See what happens when you go around making these silly assumptions, dh?
I tried to warn you earlier about the inadvisability of that, but at the time you were more interested in proving just how boring and humourless you were

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 23:01 utc | 128

Oh my god. This is the dumbest comments section I have ever seen on MoA.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 23:02 utc | 129

Now you’re getting repetitive. Can’t you come up with anything new?

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 23:02 utc | 130

oh no – dh has been involved in some comments section waaaaaay dumber than this

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 23:03 utc | 131

@129 Sorry Massinissa. I broke my own rules and got into a conversation with our leading troll. b should ban both of us.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 23:05 utc | 132

@132
Honestly Cold is worse a troll than anyone else here… Just saying.
Or at least in my opinion he is.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 23:07 utc | 133

@132 Yes but Cold at least has a point of view ….however noxious it may be. foff is just out to cause disruption.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 23:11 utc | 134

yes and I broke my earlier promise to not use humour when addressing the humourless and boring Mr dh,
Mea Cula for all the confusion it caused you dh.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 23:14 utc | 135

Cula = Culpa obviously

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 23:15 utc | 136

@Somebody @30..
Its a gimmick. He will get sick of it a little after everyone else does. I have noticed other far more competent polemicists that “OMFG” pushing the idea that this is all a sinister 4th dimensional chess-like attack on Syria, Iran,Hezbollah and Russia simultaneously. That the “ISIS” is a diabolical but calculated move,long planned and arranged by the MOTU in the US State Dept. and Pentagon, and is achieving PRECISELY the effects they intended…pardon me, (lol) …I don’t buy that garbage. Mike Whitney has been pushing this nonsense in his past 2 or 3 columns and he even admits, he bases this hypothesis on nothing but a hunch. US “foreign policy” is a COMPLETELY reactionary mess. Its the results of several powerful economic interests (which don’t always mesh), In – power, professional, “shadow government” factions competing, and hugely funded “expert policy”/opinion factories competing with each other to get noticed and all of it amplified and reverberated by an elitist corporate-echo chamber media amplifying the noise. Washington foreign policy and the global monopoly capital interests it serves are staying up late working out how best to 1. exploit the present mess, and 2. contain It. This is definitely the work of the Imperialist Washington led axis, but It points to the ultimate failure of their war policy and not to some fantasized, hyperbolic clockwork precision.

Posted by: Marc | Jun 21 2014 23:57 utc | 137

So its the usual “acknowledge the obvious conspiracy that even the blind can see, but then immediately disparge those behind it, so that you can continue to ignore it” facesaving excersize again from “marc”
It goes like this : “Yes Isis is ultimately Washingtons creature, and therefore there is a conspiracy, but dont worry cos theyre all thick as two short planks in Washington, so its a conspiracy of ineptitudes!”
I think marc is the 5th or 6th person today to roll that one out.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 0:20 utc | 138

You tell ’em foff. And don’t forget the Yinon Plan. A lot of people believe in that. They can’t all be deluded.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 0:33 utc | 139

@1
”What is your programme?’ I ask the Sunnis. ‘Maliki is corrupt and his army is sectarian, fine, but what is the programme? A Sunni region? And who will lead it? Isis?’;’
once again ‘corruption’ is used as an excuse to regime change and feel good about it..even the ‘religion of peace'(TM) is not immune to this fraud

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 0:46 utc | 140

‘PNAC and The Neocons will be blamed for blowing up the moon a thousand years from now. Just you wait and see.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 21, 2014 4:15:47 PM | 99’
they are ambitious! the moon people have been forewarned…thanks to neocon Cold and hole in the head…

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 0:48 utc | 141

@ “OMFG” @ like-a-rash-anywhere-on-this-thread
“face saving” ??? what in the fuck ARE you talking about, you goofball? I’m not being paid to post comments on MOA.
As for this –
“It goes like this : “Yes Isis is ultimately Washingtons creature, and therefore there is a conspiracy, but dont worry cos theyre all thick as two short planks in Washington, so its a conspiracy of ineptitudes!”
all I have to say is, you must be from “freerepublic” or “dittoheads USA! USA!” in your origin, or somewhere like that, because you cant read. I at no point anywhere in my comment made the statement you just made for me and placed in quotes (quotes are just that) .. You aren’t paraphrasing anything I said either. In fact, I don’t think you have your mind,(such as it is) around much of anything, except that one note you keeping hitting. The great Machine fantasy of yours where Washington controls every thing on Earth directly, simultaneously with laser-like precision, from a computer monitor in the oval office.. I never said ISIS is Washington’s creature “OMFG”. That’s what YOU keep saying. That’s your idea, lil’ buddy, not MINE. What I said is essentially this : Washington couldn’t rule Iraq when it had 100,000 troops there. There’s NO FUCKING WAY they are “doing this” now. What I said is, “this” all happening despite a trillion dollars and all of Washington’s most fervent wishes, hopes and dreams. Washington THOUGHT they could control their nasty liver eating cannibal armies but they cant. Your machine fantasy wont help them get it all back in the jar. That is what’s called an opinion. Just like all your obsessive commentary form an opinion. Time will show which opinions are correct guesses. The big problem with your opinion is it relies on spectral evidence. Whatever happens you can (and surely will) continue to insist, that its all a secret “op” and we are all fools and so on etc.,etc., Do that enough though and you will be exposed as a hyperbolic crank at the least. This is YOUR show “OMFG”..lets see what happens next.

Posted by: Marc | Jun 22 2014 0:53 utc | 142

@109
I’m familiar with Jabotinsky, from long ago. That requires a growing population, whether by immigration or birth rates. Israel is having a problem with that. Play the role of a Zionist strategist for a moment—you cause shit to disturb in the area; the population flees sufficiently. If you have sufficient settlers, you hold the territory. Those folks that flee become refugees, get involved in military matters, and suddenly you have a population that makes an effort to get their land back. If no-one’s there to keep it, what happens? What if the successful retaking of the land gives the Palestinians ideas, and there’s no mukhabarat to keep things in check, because the local state has been destroyed?
And here a bit of familiarity with more recent Zionist thought might help a bit, Jordan is Palestine. This line gets thrown around quite a bit, and Zionists have been running with it since the 1950s, at least.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 22 2014 2:09 utc | 143

b, you know your blog is doing something TPTB don’t like when it attracts all these trolls.
@143 Your point?
keep on keeping on OMFG… you seem to have hit a nerve with some of these trolls.
@134, everybody has a pov ~ what kind of statement is that?
@125, no contradiction on OMFG’s part, he repeated the same point. But you know that. Don’t you?

Posted by: crone | Jun 22 2014 2:37 utc | 144

Posted by: crone | Jun 21, 2014 10:37:58 PM | 144
Well said.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 2:48 utc | 145

@144 foff is definitely on shaky ground with his ISIS as Empire Proxy theory. He was trying to laugh it off. But I’m sure he’ll keep pushing it. He may have a point but 90% of his posts are ad hominem insults designed to disrupt. I’m surprised you can’t see that.
ISIS as Saudi proxy maybe but if ISIS is expecting any help from the Empire (other than verbal attacks on Maliki) I think they will have a long wait.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 2:51 utc | 146

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 10:51:23 PM | 146
I notice you post links to extensive documentation of your hasbara. 😀

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 3:02 utc | 147

@147 What links? I hardly ever post more than a few lines.
What’s your opinion on the ISIS/Saudi connection? What do you think the 300 ‘observers’ will be doing in Iraq? So you see an independent Kurdistan emerging? How involved is Iran?

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 3:06 utc | 148

Mondoweiss has a thread on ‘hasbara’ – for those of you posting here not acquainted with same, take a look
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/hasbara-household-word.html

Posted by: crone | Jun 22 2014 4:02 utc | 149

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 11:06:50 PM | 148
What do you think is US foreign policy?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 5:01 utc | 150

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22, 2014 1:01:23 AM | 150
What do you think is US foreign policy considering this repeat of history, this time done by a guerilla force

Kuwait, which borders Iraq, has pushed fellow Arab Gulf states to take a strong stand after the public release of a map attributed to the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, or ISIS, that showed the militant group it pushing through Kuwait’s oil fields to build an Islamic caliphate across the Middle East.
“Kuwait is on the front line in here. They are the ones who have the most worry,” said Abdulkhaleq Abdulla, a Gulf expert and political scientist in the United Arab Emirates

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 5:51 utc | 151

Posted by: crone | Jun 22, 2014 12:02:05 AM | 149
“Mondoweiss has a thread on ‘hasbara’ – for those of you posting here not acquainted with same, take a look”
ToivoS was deflecting criticism of the practice there. Some people seem to have no sense of shame at all. 😀

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 6:24 utc | 152

@150 My first thought was that it’s a Saudi project aimed at Iran but maybe it’s a Sunni/Baath rebellion. I tend to agree with people who say the US was surprised by it.
Kuwait certainly should be worried. So should the Saudis. I can’t see the US helping ISIS but Iran will surely help Maliki. Lots of unknowns. How strong is ISIS? Will the Kurds protect Kirkuk?

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 6:35 utc | 153

Posted by: dh | Jun 22, 2014 2:35:33 AM | 153
Do the US insist on the unity of Iraq or do they support a breakup in “Sunni”, “Shiite”, “Kurdish” parts?
Kurds want to know this

The kind of sovereignty you advocate for the Iraqi state (which in itself is in many ways simply an illusion) has brought only decades of despair and destruction for all Iraqis. This is why I would like to ask you, on behalf of all of the victims of the Iraqi state, to stop toying with our lives and our future — especially considering that you see yourselves as proponents of democracy and human rights.
The sole factor that could and should keep Iraq together is the will of its people — not your foreign and national interests.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 6:52 utc | 154

‘Do the US insist on the unity of Iraq or do they support a breakup in “Sunni”, “Shiite”, “Kurdish” parts?’
I hope you don’t think I have the answer. That young lady is dreaming if she thinks Iraq will just be left alone.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 7:12 utc | 155

Posted by: dh | Jun 22, 2014 3:12:43 AM | 155
The problem is that the US does create reality. When Biden comes up with hypothetical solutions and the New York Times draws hypothetical maps, local actors calculate their chances and make it come true.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 7:17 utc | 156

Putin can’t let Maliki fall, not that he will, but he might. Putin needs, must shore up Maliki and Iran should offer (if it is able) Iraqi-Shiite forces more than a token of Quds forces. The USA has to be kicked out of Iraq, this country’s presence their is a cancer.

Posted by: Fernando | Jun 22 2014 7:24 utc | 157

Reading the comments on MOA, it is clear once again why Jews deserve to rule; you folks couldn’t find your way out of a wet paperbag.

Posted by: West Coasting | Jun 22 2014 7:33 utc | 158

Posted by: Fernando | Jun 22, 2014 3:24:52 AM | 157
Yep, looks like the US has just lost a puppet

“We have great respect for Russia’s policy (on Iraq), which is clearer and more responsible than that of a few other counties, Mr. Mosawi said in an exclusive interview with the International News Agency Rossiya Segodnya. The Iraqi official urged other nations to follow in Moscow’s steps and condemn terrorism.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_22/Putin-reiterates-Russias-support-to-Iraq-government-in-clearing-republic-of-terrorists-4458/

might have lost a few countries, too

Saudi’s Foreign Minister Saud bin Faisal said that his Russian counterpart is ready to support a peaceful transition in Syria Saturday, according to Agence France Presse.
Russia’s FM Sergei Lavrov met with the Saudi FM in Jeddah Saturday to discuss the developing situation in Iraq as well as the ongoing conflict in Syria.
A Saudi spokesman for Al Faisal told AFP that Lavrov has agreed with Riyadh “to work together to apply the Geneva I agreement that provides for a peaceful transfer of power in Syria.”
Both ministers also were “[keen to] preserve the independence and territorial integrity of Syria,” according to the spokesman.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 8:37 utc | 159

And another interesting take from Russia on US politics

The reason for Washington’s unwillingness to deal with Iran’s intervention in Iraq is that Iran is fighting a war that America is unable to fight. For Obama, sending ground troops to Iraq would be a political disaster and an implicit recognition of the fact that the Iraq war is not over. American presidents can’t admit their failures and, willingly or not, Teheran is now working hard to save Obama’s face. Iran’s leaders are fully aware of the implications of their intervention in Iraq and they know that Obama would be happy to see them succeed in quashing the Sunni jihadists but would like to retain American control over Iraq’s political establishment. Of course, for Iran this is unacceptable and its leaders are doing their best to force the US to offer meaningful concessions to Iran.
President Rouhani has already announced that he reached an agreement with the US and this agreement looks like a full capitulation from the US. If Rouhani’s statement is true, then Iran will be allowed to enrich uranium and the sanctions will be lifted. It seems that the White House is willing to pay a hefty price in order to convince Iran to quash the jihadist threat in Iraq. Of course, Israel will be livid and will use all of its lobbying power in order to topple the diplomatic deal between Iran and US but its chances of success are slim.

So Russia is now offering Saudi Arabia a deal in Syria and in Iraq?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 8:53 utc | 160

@109
I’m familiar with Jabotinsky, from long ago. That requires a growing population, whether by immigration or birth rates. Israel is having a problem with that.
Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21, 2014 10:09:25 PM | 143
Mr Meyer – all those massive families that the Zio/Religious loons have been paid by the state to have? They will all grow up and have just as many kids as there parents did. That is why he state has been paying them to have massive families of 6 or 7 or 8 children. And those religious/Zios? They are as fanatical as it comes, and you can be pretty sure that they ALL are familiar with the works of Jabotinsky too.
And here a bit of familiarity with more recent Zionist thought might help a bit, Jordan is Palestine. This line gets thrown around quite a bit, and Zionists have been running with it since the 1950s, at least.
as stated before: there’s a BIG difference between what Israel says, and what Israel does, but you seem to forget that simple fact every time you broach the subject.
After all Israel has been talking about it’s “desire for Peace” for as long as I’ve been alive, and we all know that that is complete bollix. We all know, or should do, that Israel has no “desire for peace” and never has had. So just because Israel states that “Jordan is Palestine” certainly does not mean that they actually really believe that the Palestinians should get to have Jordan.
Your apparent trust in Israel statements re Jordan is more than a little naive IMHO.
==============
I hope you don’t think I have the answer. That young lady is dreaming if she thinks Iraq will just be left alone.
Posted by: dh | Jun 22, 2014 3:12:43 AM | 155
Oh i doubt anyone thought that YOU might have an answer dh. After all in between struggling with your complete inability to recognise the mildest of humour and all your time spent coming up with those (trigger Warning!!) “Cracking oneliners” that you spoil us with here at MOA, where would you get the time to do some actual thinking?
So I’m pretty certain that no one here expects anything from you except more of those (trigger warning!!) truly “Cracking oneliners” that you spoil us, non-stop with here at MOA, when you’re not boring the shit out of everyone with your whinging like a little baby.
I can’t see the US helping ISIS but Iran will surely help Maliki. Lots of unknowns. How strong is ISIS? Will the Kurds protect Kirkuk?
Posted by: dh | Jun 22, 2014 2:35:33 AM | 153
Yah – All those humvees, all that cash etc etc that they made sure their agent, Tarkhan Batirashvili/Umar al-Shishani, got his hands on, would be no help at all at all.
Nope. Certainly not. I can’t imagine what Mr Batirashvili/al-Shishani might find to do with all those Humvees and all that cash. Can you, dh?
@144 foff is definitely on shaky ground with his ISIS as Empire Proxy theory. He was trying to laugh it off.
No dh. I was specifically laughing at YOU and your complete inability to recognise mild humour – remember? Surely your memory’s not that bad, dh, We only discussed this a few short hours ago.
But I’m sure he’ll keep pushing it. He may have a point but 90% of his posts are ad hominem insults designed to disrupt. I’m surprised you can’t see that.
(Trigger Warning!!) Whereas your posts have been designed purely to enlighten as any one can see

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 9:06 utc | 161

Washington THOUGHT they could control their nasty liver eating cannibal armies but they cant.
Posted by: Marc | Jun 21, 2014 8:53:28 PM | 142
How the hell do you know?
You fools keep stating this shit, and completely ignore the possibility that the Empire may actually want ISIS doing exactly what it is doing.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 9:08 utc | 162

What’s your opinion on the ISIS/Saudi connection? What do you think the 300 ‘observers’ will be doing in Iraq? So you see an independent Kurdistan emerging? How involved is Iran?
Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 11:06:50 PM | 148
note how when any one challenges the most boring unimaginative man on earth, Mr dh himself, to back up his crap oneliners with something other than more crap oneliners, he suddenly turns all inquisitive and blurts out a short series of questions designed to deflect from the fact that all he contributes here is crap oneliners and an inability to recognise humour

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 9:13 utc | 163

“Proud” Erdogan does not want to provoke ISIS

The government imposed a gag order on coverage of the hostage crisis on Tuesday with a court ruling that came two days after comments by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan criticizing the media and asking what they were trying to achieve by “provoking ISIL.” Erdoğan asked the media not to agitate ISIL by writing or talking too much about it. Rights groups, journalists, political parties and journalists associations were outraged by the court order, whose opponents are calling it bold-faced censorship.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-350854-isil-crisis-reshapes-middle-east-puts-ankara-in-hot-seat.html

Posted by: virgile | Jun 22 2014 9:25 utc | 164

Pretty obvious that turks have no problem with isis, what a crazy regime that is.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 22 2014 9:49 utc | 165

Posted by: virgile | Jun 22, 2014 5:25:46 AM | 164
:-)) look here

“If any harm is done to any of our citizens, it will not go unanswered,” Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davoglu warned ISIS on Thursday, cautioning that “no one should test Turkey.”
Both sides are holding to a ceasefire at the tomb of Suleiman Shah – the burial place of the grandfather of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire – in a Turkish exclave on the Euphrates River, completely surrounded by the northern Syrian province of Aleppo and 10 kilometers south of Syria’s border with Turkey.
Though it has the tomb’s site surrounded, ISIS does not fire on and allows the Turkish army to pass through its territory to rotate its troops every few months.
“What is happening at the Suleiman Shah Tomb certainly requires coordination,” Adnan al-Hoseini, a Syrian journalist from the village of al-Oiba, five kilometers from the tomb of Suleiman Shah, tells Osama Abu Zeid.
Q: In March, Suleiman Shah was at the center of the leaked Turkish Ministry of Intelligence recordings, which supposedly forced Turkey to shut down YouTube.
Then, an official was quoted as looking for a reason to intervene in Syria, and proposed rallying in “self-defense” around the tomb. Did that influence relations between Turkey and ISIS in the area?
That was just for the benefit of the international community, that the tomb was in danger, to show the world that it also has religious sites [in Syria] that must be defended.
It’s similar to Iran’s intervention in Syria to protect the Sayeda Zeinab shrine in Damascus.
Q: Are ISIS and the Turkish government coordinating the presence at the Shah tomb?
There might not be coordination between the two in every meaning of the word, but what is happening at the Suleiman Shah Tomb certainly requires coordination.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 9:59 utc | 166

LOL!
Isis threat justifies greater spy powers, says [Israeli agent] Liam Fox

state has duty to protect citizens, and public will accept greater surveillance powers

============
Double LOL!!
David Cameron: Isis is planning to attack UK

Prime minister says Islamist fighters in Iraq will ‘hit us at home’ if Britain does not help stabilise regime

========
Triple F’n LOL!!!
British Isis fighters will launch attacks on UK, says Kurdish intelligence chief

Kurdish military intelligence chief has warned “if the situation gets worse for us, believe me, it’s going to get worse for the Europeans as well”

===========
Oh booga booga –
ISIS comin to get ya!

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 10:33 utc | 167

Somebody,
Yep, that’s the idea: the US monster will accept Europe as a sacrifical offer to quench its thirst (and that includes its great “associate countries” such as Israel, Ukraine,and very soon Turkey, where it will be so easy to embezzle millions in some bogus academic-scientific research projects -check “Minerva” that even include ‘security’- with the little help of the European Commission bureaucracy.)
And at this condition only (TAFTA) they may let Russia expand its zone of interest on a field of ruins where djihadists show up clean-shaved daily on TV screens to remind the world we need every penny of every workers’ income to fight the war on terror…
I start to understand why Hollande never had an interest in fixing the problem in France’s suburbs (directly related to the lack of education-funding). He just needs to provide recruits, that’s his job in the deal.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2014 10:44 utc | 168

When ISIS were operating 500 miles West of where they are now, being helped by the Empire with training, finance and supplies, no one here had ANY problem with the notion that ISIS was operating as a tool of the Empire.
Oh BUT stick em 500 miles East of there, help them out once again by giving them the opportunity to grab lots and lots of US supplied Humvees, and bags and bags of luvverly cash and suddenly its “OMFG the Empire’s gonna be real P’d off with these ISIS guys now, ISIS has turned from a proxy force into an enemy force!!!!”
Some people will believe anything so long as it helps them to continue to avoid dealing with reality

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 10:47 utc | 169

So far, French Le Monde does respect Erdogan’s embargo!
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2014/06/12/la-turquie-est-en-contact-avec-des-groupes-irakiens-pour-negocier-la-liberation-des-otages_4437233_3214.html
No news in this paper since June 12th.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2014 10:51 utc | 170

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22, 2014 6:44:18 AM | 168
AM I the only one that notices that Zina’s rely to Somebody doesn’t actually refer to anything he posted?
Instead it’s seeded with her/his/it’s fave talking points
eg:

“Europe will be sacrificed!!” – to whom or what? I can only presume “Muslims” given the sly little points she tries to insert in the next 2 paragraphs, and given that that Zina doesn’t provide any info on Whom/What what she is referring to, and given that it IS Zina I’m talking about here.
“they may let Russia expand its zone of interest on a field of ruins where djihadists show up clean-shaved daily ” – ah “dijihadists” – what Zina post would be complete without a ref to those scary “dijihadists” that are allegedly coming to get us Europeans, eh?
“I start to understand why Hollande never had an interest in fixing the problem in France’s suburbs” – when the delightful Zina says “the problem in France’s suburbs” she-he-it means “Muslims” once again, but just doesn’t have the honesty to actually come out and say so, because then everyone might notice that “Muslims” is ALL that Zina posts about here.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 10:58 utc | 171

:-))
Turks, Qataris have 48 hours to leave Libya – Haftar aide
Saudi and UAE media support for Libyan coup attempts

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 11:24 utc | 172

@171
I dont think youre right OMFG. If the problem in the suburbs is Muslims, how is that related to ‘lack of education funding’? I think youre straw manning here.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 22 2014 11:24 utc | 173

plus
US – Saudis narrow split over Syria

The Saudis have been willing to give aid to a broader range of Syrian opposition groups, including some the U.S. considers dangerous Islamic militants, in their eagerness to oust the Assad regime.
Senior U.S. officials said their goal is to provide assistance to moderate Syrian rebels not just as a “counterweight” to the Assad regime, but also to extremist elements of the opposition.
…
The U.S. and Saudi Arabia were at odds last year over whether the U.S. should launch a military strike at Syria over its alleged use of chemical weapons. Mr. Obama threatened but then decided against a strike, instead pursuing a diplomatic resolution spearheaded by Russia for the removal and destruction of Syria’s chemical weapons stockpile.
There is also unhappiness in Riyadh over American negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program, which the Saudis consider a grave threat, and over the lukewarm approach Washington has taken toward Egypt’s military-led government.
Political analyst Khaled Al Dekhayel said the Saudis and Americans appeared to have narrowed their disagreements on Syria, but the Obama administration’s determination to reach a deal on Iran’s nuclear program, an effort that may include discussion of the fate of Iran’s allies in Syria.
“I think he is using Syria as a bargaining chip with the Iranians,” he said. “But at the same time he has to satisfy the Saudis and other allies in Turkey and Jordan.”

Something has got to give.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 11:31 utc | 174

@171
I dont think youre right OMFG. If the problem in the suburbs is Muslims, how is that related to ‘lack of education funding’? I think youre straw manning here.
Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 22, 2014 7:24:44 AM | 173
Perhaps then you should read up a little on France.
Anyone that knows anything about France knows that “the problems in the French Suburbs” is code for “Muslims in the Banlieues!!”
Nobody Ever Talks About One Of The Biggest Problems In France

Who lives in the banlieue?

mostly Arab or African, often Muslim and poor.

increasingly they are second- and third-generation immigrants, descended from guest workers who arrived in the 1960s and ’70s.

Thirty-nine percent of the residents are under age 25, and youth unemployment tops 40 percent (compared with 20 percent and 22 percent, respectively, nationwide).

the suburbs are zones of separation.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 11:42 utc | 175

Perhaps Massinissa you can explain to me then what Zina’s 168 is supposed to be a reply to?
because I can’t see any connection between what Somebody posted and Zina’s alleged “reply” – In fact I’d go so far as to state that there definitely is no connection between anything Somebody in his comments previous to Zina’s supposed “reply”
and she/he/it clearly intended people to believe that 168 was some sort of reply to something posted here,
So if you think I’m strawmanning when I say that 168 is merely a sly attempt by Zina to turn the conversation around to Zina’s fave topic of how dangerous/horrible Muslims are, then please point out for me what exactly Zina is replying to.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 11:50 utc | 176

France calls for increased investment from Qatar

The French leader’s two-day visit came on the heels of the latest meeting of the so-called Friends of Syria group of governments opposed to the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, highlighting the common cause found between Doha and Paris over the past few years.
Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim al-Thani, Qatar’s prime minister, said close economic co-operation between the two states was founded on shared goals.
“We have achieved a notable advance from traditional to strategic relations supported by close points of view,” he said.
Both France and Qatar played leading roles in supporting the rebels in Libya and have found common cause in pushing western and Gulf allies towards a more hawkish position on the Syrian opposition.
Qatar’s sovereign wealth fund has built minority stakes in companies such as media group Lagardère, and water and waste management services provider Veolia. French companies have also been prominent in Qatar for years, led by oil and gas giant Total, which has a 75-year history on the peninsula.
As part of his drive to attract more money from the Gulf, Mr Hollande said the two states had agreed a compromise agreement over a new joint-investment fund that would resolve a “misunderstanding” surrounding controversial Qatari plans to invest in the French suburbs.
Qatar has been embroiled in a scandal after a plan to invest in businesses in largely Muslim suburbs led to accusations that Doha was trying to influence the French Muslim community.
The two countries sought to draw a line under the scandal by signing a new Franco-Qatari fund to invest €300m in small and medium-sized French companies. The new fund will not target specific areas of France, but will target suburban companies.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 11:51 utc | 177

Maybe you can help
Can you tell us what Zina is allegedly “replying” to in @ 168?
It obviously cannot be 177, now can it 🙂

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 11:54 utc | 178

True?
Iranian forces arive in Kirkuk
Source is Kurdish

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 11:54 utc | 179

People who have nothing else to do than posting 70 “comments” on MoA thread each day should try to look for options about getting a brain.
I am saying that Hollande is fully involved with the US and the UK in not letting the French Muslims -who indeed live in majority in the suburbs and indeed in majority don’t get jobs (that’s France idea of “integration”)- get a better education that would prevent him to believe fairytales about the Mahdi and going to Syria and Iraq to kill innocent people and put a few pics on FB. I think it is not only about “getting rid of the young extremists” as it is the case for KSA, but more like providing recruits to fight in the US war.
Now please, you should really look for some help out there. Bipolars get very good medication these days and there are many things to do apart from posting 70 times a day on MoA.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2014 12:29 utc | 180

@180
Wait… Theres no jobs available… But you say that the problem is that theyre not educated.
The reason they go off to become jihadis is because THEY DONT HAVE JOBS. Thats how it is with jihadis both in the Middle East and France. Of course ‘Socialist’ Hollande is probably too busy union busting or other capitalist things he does to actually do any kind of keynsian job creation.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 22 2014 13:57 utc | 181

“Thirty-nine percent of the residents are under age 25, and youth unemployment tops 40 percent (compared with 20 percent and 22 percent, respectively, nationwide).”
Gee, sounds to me that if France wanted less Jihadis the government would reduce unemployment to give potential jihadis something better to do.
But golly gee, that would hurt the french capitalists I guess. Cant give the Mr. Market a sad.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 22 2014 14:01 utc | 182

whatever reason they have
this here is
– Crocker in the Washington Post

We would be foolish to think that ISIS will not plan attacks against the West now that it has the space and security to do so. This is a more formidable force than Osama bin Laden’s group that brought us 9/11. Its fighters are experienced, completely committed to their cause, well armed and well financed. As many as 2,000 of them hold Western passports, including U.S. ones, so there’s no need for visas. This is global jihad, and it will be coming our way.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 14:06 utc | 183

Yes yes Zina – everyone that realises what a horrible little Anti-Mulsim racist Zina is, is clearly nothing other than Bipolar – cos apparently only Bipolar people would have a problem with Zina’s constant anti-muslim “concern trolling” disguised as commentary on M.East events. So far I have seen you use that stupid little line on about 10 different people – it’s grows very stale when you use it all the time, in every situation, you silly little tart.
little Zionist racist propagandist that you are, you pretended to “reply” to something that was never posted here – your 168 is a “reply” to nothing at all, despite your presence that it a rely to something that was posted here.
BUT it is a nice opportunity for YOU to slip in your favourite talking points about all those horrible muslims taking over Europe.
It contains all of your little fave discussion points and coincidentally enough, the fave talking points of the French Anti-Muslim/Immigrant Right, the Jewish Supremacist Pam Geller and her crew, and the Anders Behring Breivik types as well, doesn’t it Zina?
It’s got “Europe being sacrificed” – a fave of the Pam Geller “Muslims are taking over Europe” racist fan-club, and Anders Behring Breivik Type racists, and of course the Le Pen Right Wing in dear old France.
It’s got “dijihadists” + “Russia expand its zone of interest on a field of ruins” – what is THAT a ref to Zina? Dijihadist + Ukr? Now THERE is a Zio-Con-type bullshit talking point if ever I saw one.
And lastly of course some concern-trolling regarding “the problem in France’s suburbs” which every one who knows anything knows is code for the French, but especially the French Anti-Muslim Right, to refer to those horrible horrible “Muslims in the Banlieues!!” – your pretence to actually be concerned about the plight of these people is laughable – the only concern you seem to have is when are you going to be able to get rid of them.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 14:15 utc | 184

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 22, 2014 9:57:08 AM | 181
So any idea yet just exactly WHAT Zina was pretending to “reply” to in 168?
Surely you must have worked that out by now?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 14:16 utc | 185

So far no one is able to provide ANY info on what Zina was pretending to “reply” to in her 168 –
cos it certainly was disguised as a “reply” to something –
yet curiously no one seems to know what –
and Zina certainly hasn’t provided an answer to that question, despite having ample opportunity to do so – she’d rather rant about Bipolars in an effort to disguise he Anti-Muslim racism it seems.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 14:21 utc | 186

This is a snowball that will grow into an avalanche
Radek Sikorski – US ties are worthless

WARSAW, Poland (AP) – A Polish magazine said Sunday it has obtained recordings of a conversation in which Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski says the country’s strong alliance with the U.S. “isn’t worth anything” and is “even harmful because it creates a false sense of security.”
In a short transcript of the conversation, a person identified as Sikorski by the magazine Wprost tells former finance minister, Jacek Rostowski, that Poles naively believe the U.S. bolsters their security. Using vulgar language, the person argues that such beliefs are nonsense, and that the Polish-U.S. alliance alienates the Russians and Germans.
There has been no official confirmation that it is Sikorski who speaks in the conversation.

Popcorn!

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 14:35 utc | 187

ok. the issue is settled now

Iran’s top leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Sunday he is against US intervention in neighboring Iraq, where Islamic extremists and Sunni militants opposed to Tehran have seized a number of towns and cities, the official IRNA news agency reported.
“We strongly oppose the intervention of the US and others in the domestic affairs of Iraq,” Khamenei was quoted as saying, in his first reaction to the crisis.
“The main dispute in Iraq is between those who want Iraq to join the US camp and those who seek an independent Iraq,” said Khamenei, who has the final say over government policies. “The US aims to bring its own blind followers to power since the US is not happy about the current government in Iraq. ”
Khamenei said Iraq’s government and its people, with help of top clerics, would be able to end the “sedition” there, saying extremists are hostile to both Shia and Sunni muslims who seek an independent Iraq.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 14:53 utc | 188

The Poles have recently been subject to some interesting black-propaganda – prior to this latest round of Tapes, there were recorded conversations of the head of the Central bank talking to a Gov Politician asking to have the Finance Minister removed.
Lots of people thought that the target of the Black Propaganda was the Finance Minister but if you look up his Bio he is clearly deep in with Wall Street, and has some very very suspicious connections in the finance world in general — at least very suspicious if you happen to be a Pole concerned with the Economic independence of Poland, so I’m pretty sure he was not the target.
And lo and behold it is the head of the Central Bank that has lost his job.
Now we have Sikorski on tape and the propaganda is that Sikorski is supposedly now mouthing Anti-US statements.
Well anyone that knows Sikorski and who HIS connections are knows that this is bullshit – Sikorski is DEEP in with the Neo-Cons. Very very deep-in indeed – so the idea that he has suddenly turned Anti-Empire is complete and utter nonsense
SO I have no idea what the game is here, but it certainly isn’t what the media are claiming it is. But then it never IS, is it?
Add to all of that, that some people consider the plane crash that caused the death of the Polish President a few years back, to have actually been a covert op to take out, not the Prez but the then head of the Polish Central Bank.
The US and Euros want Poland to switch to the Euro.
Poland quite rightly imho, doesn’t want to do this, as it would probably result in economic suicide
The dead Central Banker was very strong against it, and possibly so to is the recently sacked Head of the Central Bank.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 14:53 utc | 189

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22, 2014 10:53:50 AM | 189
1st tape you mention was no international conspiracy just corrupt party politics – the central bank person was supposed to inflate the currency pre election for a boom to enhance the leading party’s chances.
Polish economy is completely insignificant – no one apart from themselves care if they join the Euro yes or no. If they join the Euro they will no more be able to influence the election this way.
Radek Sikorski just tells privately what everybody knows. As he is aspiring for an EU position he might have leaked the tape himself.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 15:20 utc | 190

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/06/22/podcast-dahr-jamail-on-isis-maliki-how-the-us-helped-create-this-growing-regional-war/
Is Dahr Jamail drinking the cool aid?

Posted by: Fast Freddy | Jun 22 2014 15:26 utc | 191

Mina, please, get your math straight.
The serial poster only published 60 posts out of 190, not 70 as you falsely claim!
Almost 1/3 of the thread hijacked, very good work…

Posted by: citizen x | Jun 22 2014 15:31 utc | 192

Re Yinon and Israeli total fertility: Israeli fertility is equal to that of Egypt, i.e. about 3. Not exactly a rate that will allow for colonization in any short order. Moreover, if they take Jordan, they gain relatively little water, as most of (HK) Jordan’s rivers empty into the Jordan river—they will compete with their own if they take that land, and Zionists have much larger water consumption than the Arabs, per capita. Jabotinsky was not necessarily a good strategist.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 22 2014 15:36 utc | 193

Libya is showing the way to avoid ‘interference’

TURKS, QATARIS HAVE 48 HOURS TO LEAVE LIBYA: HAFTAR AIDE
Published : 22.06.2014 12:53:27
Turks, Qataris have 48 hours to leave Libya: Haftar aide
BENGHAZI – An aide to renegade Libyan general Khalifa Haftar said that Turkish and Qatari nationals have 48 hours to leave eastern Libya, threatening “measures” against those from both nationalities to be arrested after the deadline.
“Turkish and Qatari nations should leave the area stretching from Musaid crossing in the far east to Sirte within 48 hours starting Saturday night,” Haftar’s spokesman Mohamed Hegazi told Al-Tadamoun press agency.
“After the deadline, anyone from the two countries would be arrested and face due measures,” he added, without elaborating on the measures in question.
According to Hegazi, the move came after Haftar’s camp received information that Qatari and Turkish nationals are operating in the region as intelligence agents.

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 22 2014 15:37 utc | 194

181
You need to be uneducated to believe that the Messiah is going to show up in Syria when the final great fight between the Messiah’s friends and their enemies led by the Antechrist start (Google it). Of course the problem is with jobs, but the reason why you don’t get jobs when you’re from the French suburbs is than you’ve been to 3rd rate schools. You have the same problem in the US and it is getting pretty everywhere now. It is not only the Muslims in the suburbs who are striving to find a job (basically almost everyone is in France, because the system has reached a point of complete sclerosis).
But the problem gets worse when some people are targeted to become cheap recruits…

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2014 16:06 utc | 195

They Posted by: citizen x | Jun 22, 2014 11:31:09 AM | 192
Well then perhaps YOU, with your wonderful math skills, can tell us what Zina’s cleverly disguised set of Pam Geller-like talking points @168 was a “reply” to..
Cos Zina certainly ain’t saying

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 16:07 utc | 196

the reason why you don’t get jobs when you’re from the French suburbs is than you’ve been to 3rd rate schools.
actually it is mostly because many French people, especially those like you Zina, are very racist

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 22 2014 16:10 utc | 197

@ 92
This was indeed Israeli policy until the treaty signed in 1994 between King Hussein and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (yeah, the guy who was later assassinated).
Here is Col. Lang:
” Until Jordan signed the treaty, the Israelis continuously tried to destabilize Jordan as well. they lied about the country all the time and they insinuated that anyone who liked the Bedouin in Jordan must be at least bisexual. The Jordanians have the custom of kissing each other on the cheek. “Ah, you like the kisses. Now I see why you defend them.” I have a long memory. pl”
You might argue that the hardline Israeli national security objectives as described in plans like the Yinon Plan didn’t always win the argument in Israel or that there was at least some serious debate occasionally (thus the Jordan Treaty and the Oslo process). This is a long discussion, but this all ended anyway with Rabin’s assassination. Since then, there has been no opposition to the hardliners.
Btw, I read a lot of the comments in several threads and I must say, people really like that “Ineptitude” bs. This peanut gallery confuses publicly stated objectives with actual objectives. Three points help to clarify this:
1)Fact: There is no daylight between Israeli national security objectives and neocon policy prescriptions.
2)Fact: No matter how “wrong” the neocons supposedly prove to be after the fact, Israel’s adversaries keep getting blown up one way or the other. To illustrate further, here is Wesley Clark:
“He said: “Sir, it’s worse than that. He said – he pulled up a piece of paper off his desk – he said: “I just got this memo from the Secretary of Defense’s office. It says we’re going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in five years – we’re going to start with Iraq, and then we’re going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.””
Does it look like the neocons are incompetent? Not according to THAT agenda.
3) Fact: Even though they are so easily proven as the “people constantly wrong”, they keep getting rewarded with professorships, “freedom” chairs in think tanks and huge speaking fees while still being the darlings of the MSM. This means that someone must be finding them useful, most importantly the Lobby network including the usual billionaire “donors” who still fund them and their “think tanks” or PACs.
In short, the fact that regime change and destabilization never seems to end up the way neocons predict publicly is a feature, not an accident that supposedly proves they don’t know what they are doing. They are propagandists. They sell regime change wrapped up in any way you can think of. Any rationale will do as long as it will convince enough useful idiots to get the job done. Then, they’ll move to the next target. These guys play the long game and are totally and utterly shameless as far as intellectual honesty goes. To further illustrate how ridiculous it is to take anything they say seriously, and how theirs is truly the “art of deception”, here is Max Boot in the Weekly Standard a few days ago:
“It is true that Bush’s mismanagement from 2003 to 2007 aggravated the situation, especially his foolish decisions to disband the Iraqi Army without sending enough U.S. troops to fill the vacuum and to purge Baathists from the government in a process that was hijacked by Shiite militants such as Ahmad Chalabi.”
It is incredible, isn’t it? The call to disband the army and the de-Ba’athification of Iraq was THE necocon policy prescription of the period and it was them who told Bremer to enforce it, with Bush revealing in a later interview that he had no idea how this happened (!) because he thought the plan was to keep the army. So here we have the neocons hijacking policy and disbanding the army, yet Max Boot has no problem blaming Bush(!).
And Chalabi? He was their man, still is and they are still promoting him today. I rest my case.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/06/the-torment-of-the-neocons.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef01a3fd1deea8970b
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/26/wes_clark_and_the_neocon_dream/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/obama-s-iraq_794950.html?page=2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_Provisional_Authority_Order_2

Posted by: Alan | Jun 22 2014 17:43 utc | 198

Terrific post Alan. Thanks.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 18:04 utc | 199

A blowback jihad hit in Spain was pivotal in removing Spanish troops from the Iraq War.
Fact is, if only 10 percent of world jihadists at any given time are other than dependable tools of the Empire, that would be enough
to cause major problems for the American-Israeli imperial machine, such are the overwhelming odds re numbers involved.

Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 22 2014 19:08 utc | 200

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