"Their interference in Iraq is nothing new" Kirby said. This reminds me of what US politicians said at the height of the US invasion of Iraq, then they complained about "foreign" [Iranian] interference in Iraq. [the US interference was not foreign of course]. Today we had some wise words from a Sunni MP "A veteran Sunni politician and a member of the parliament warned that Sunnis were once again making a pact with the devil. "This will lead to a chaotic and fragmented Sunni war," he said. "'What is your programme?' I ask the Sunnis. 'Maliki is corrupt and his army is sectarian, fine, but what is the programme? A Sunni region? And who will lead it? Isis?'

"Whatever happens the Sunnis of Iraq are the biggest losers," the MP added wearily. "In Syria the Sunnis can win if they clean their midst of foreign jihadis but in Iraq the Sunnis will lose whatever happens. They are a minority against the Shia and now they allowed the jihadis and Isis into their areas".http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/20/baghdad-sunni-fighters-we-are-ready-for-zero-hour

Posted by: harry law | Jun 21 2014 8:30 utc | 1

Posted by: harry law | Jun 21, 2014 4:30:59 AM | 1

I agree. But

They are a minority against the Shia and now they allowed the jihadis and Isis into their area

Not if this becomes regional. Then it is Iranians against Arabs. And Shiites will have to choose their identity.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 9:13 utc | 2

somebody

Lol you believing Iran will start attacking arabs now? As Harrylaw said, this is a minority takfiri group and will always be.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 21 2014 9:16 utc | 3

3) add
when Israel and Iran were friendly

This is not ancient history. Both pre- and post-Revolutionary Iran had extensive military and economic ties with the Jewish state. As recently as two decades ago, each country considered the other a vital friend in a region filled with hostile enemies. Conflict between the two may be bitter, but it is not, and never was, inevitable.

Iran informally recognized Israel in 1950, becoming the first Muslim-majority country after Turkey to do so. With few allies in the region, Israel welcomed Iran’s modest support. That support increased when England and the United States overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran in 1953, installing in its place a more Western-friendly regime. The new regime, headed by the Shah, was so aligned with the United States that a deal was stuck granting the Persian nation a huge nuclear energy program, as well as large quantities of plutonium and enriched uranium — two pathways to a nuclear bomb.

The Israeli-Iranian alliance was a part of the Shah’s pro-Western orientation. “The Shah looked at Israel as a way to establish friendly relations with the U.S.,” says the Rand Corp.’s Dalia Dassa Kaye, co-author of a recent monograph on Iranian-Israeli relations. Israel saw Iran as a way to escape its regional isolation. “They were bound by common enemies: the Soviet Union, and Arab nationalism, especially Iraq,” says Kaye.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 9:18 utc | 4

@3

The idiot only found out yesterday that Iranians are not Arab, and now hes gone and cooked up a whole moronic war scenario, just based on that one piece of info

What a fukin asshole

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 9:32 utc | 5

Will the Iraqi Shiites fall in the trap which has been avoided by Asad and the different Shiite minorities in Syria?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27953312

Moqtada Sadr and Maliki belong to Ahmadinejad's time, not to Ruhani's. The Qom/Najaf rivalry must be behind that.

Any condemnation of ISIS actions from the Qatari/Saudi/Kuwaiti cooks?

The West is trying to get from Iraq what it didn't achieve through Syria.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 10:01 utc | 6

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 21, 2014 5:16:44 AM | 3

Lol you believing Iran will start attacking arabs now? As Harrylaw said, this is a minority takfiri group and will always be.

Do you think that the Iraqi army after they "melted away" will fight to retake Mosul?

What was the purpose of "melting away" in cooperation with the Kurds?

According to Western and Gulf media this "minority takfiri group" has just overrun most of the geographic space of Iraq.

I don't believe that either. So something else is going on. All this Shiite or Sunni minority/majority talk (which I don't buy either) only applies if you accept colonial borders.

Obama now has the following options
- send US military back into Iraq for peacekeeping in force (not just 300 to protect the embassy and Green Zone)
- support Iraqi (not trusted, intentionally kept weak, therefore Iranian ground forces as offered by Iran
- do nothing
- offer incentives to the local parties involved to fight ISIL (what Petraeus did, but where promises were not kept)

None of the above are really options, it is lose lose for the US.
All I am saying is that the Sunni triangle might have a plan.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 10:05 utc | 7

""The Sunni Triangle" might have a plan"

This bullshit propaganda gets more and more retarded as it progresses

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 10:08 utc | 8

Over running most of geographic space of iraq isnt nearly as significant as the average idiot might like one to belive.

Clearly the average idiot has not read any history and knows even less about the geography of Iraq.

The areas ISIS is alleged to have overrun is for the most part empty desert region. A bunch of not very bright drunk football hooligans could achieve the same effect by grabbing a few pickups and a few AK47s and just driving around shooting things that move.

Historically that area has been overrun countless times, by every army that ever went there, no matter how incompetent they were, because its mostly empty desert

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 10:15 utc | 9

somebody

Yes this is a minority the fact that isis could take mosul is because of the badly conduct of the iraqi army, not so much that all sunnis that you seems to believe love isis.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 21 2014 10:28 utc | 10

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21, 2014 6:15:32 AM | 9

The strange thing about that "desert area" - it also has kept armies fighting for years ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 10:36 utc | 11

This guy is a total moron, or a total lying disinfo artist. Or both.

2 days ago he was ranting about IranIraq coperation and calling it "Arab Nationalism", then he was infomred that he was talking bullshit because Iranians are not Arab.

So now, a mere 2 days later, armed finally with just one very very basic fact, ( Iranians not being Arab,) the complete f'n turdbrain has cooked up an entirely different line of completely misleading bullshit based on some moronic notion that the Iranians, not being arab and all, are about to go on an arab-slaughtering spree.

He really is a dishonest piece of shit,

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 10:38 utc | 12

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21, 2014 6:38:36 AM | 12

Lets face it, the world is too complex for propaganda ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 10:47 utc | 13

Lets face it, youre alying piece of shit deliberatly trying to mislead people.

You do it every time any big happens, you flood this place with bullshit theory after bullshit theory, all easily proven to be bullshit btw, and back up your bullshit with links to articles that usually dont say what you claim they say

None of this is accidental. You do it very deliberately. It may be that you do it because youre just basically a lying asshole, or it may be that there are more nefarious reasons for you lying bullshit. I don't know.

A more deceptive disreputable individual would be hard to find

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 10:55 utc | 14

Lets face it: you're just a human bullshit-producing machine

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 11:03 utc | 15

:-))

Latest NBC title

Iraq's Shiites, America's newest allies, prepare for battle

scroll down to bottom for the video

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 11:12 utc | 16

The strange thing about that "desert area" - it also has kept armies fighting for years ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21, 2014 6:36:32 AM | 11

No

that is the city of Fallujah - it is not the "Desert Area" referred to by me, and most certainly it is also not the totality of the geographic area YOU were referring to when you stated "this "minority takfiri group" has just overrun most of the geographic space of Iraq.", so don't go and now pretend that Fallujah is what you were referring to when you made that statement

The city of Fallujah was/is basically a destroyed city, mostly a big city-sized ruin inhabited by the remnants of a defeated and destroyed population that suffered horrendously under the US Empire's 2007 onslaught.

The ISIS taking of Fallujah is no great military feat, since there wasn't much in the way of Military forces opposing them there anyway, and the population are too demoralised and defeated to even think about organising to oppose the Empire's proxy army known as ISIS

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 11:31 utc | 17

suffered horrendously under the US Empire's 2007 onslaught. = suffered horrendously under the US Empire's 2004 onslaught.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 11:34 utc | 18

Qatar's traces are all over

http://angryarab.blogspot.de/2014/06/aljazeera.html

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 11:47 utc | 19

300 American 'advisers' to Iraq is COIN doctrine at its best (or worst, depending on perspective) .. Iraq is an especially interesting study in what the USA (and other western democracies) do best (with blow-back packaged for profit by the highly effective 'terror' fear-mongering label)

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/05/26/counterfeit-coin/

It's a long and old story; effect regime change (with insurgency in some cases), prop up new regime against subsequent insurgency with deals to acquire resources (oil & mining especially) on the cheap and profits all around. Works everywhere money can buy a corrupt regime (with arms)

Posted by: Ronald Thomas West | Jun 21 2014 12:14 utc | 20

:-))
Sunni militants seize a second Iraqi town in Anbar

Foreign Companies in Basra evacuate workers

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 13:05 utc | 21

@13 Lets face it, the world is too complex for you to understand it...

OMFG is too brusque with his rhetoric for my taste, but his ideas are much better than yours have proved to be.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 13:07 utc | 22

Even in Basra? Some ISIS commandos infiltrating from Kuwait have been announced or what? (the same happened last year during ramadan, when Basra which had been sort of quiet witnessed a huge suicide bombing campaign). Reminder: ramadan starts next week.

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 13:29 utc | 23

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21, 2014 9:07:38 AM | 22

There is nothing to understand. The US have pulverised Iraq and Syria to such a degree that they will have to do the peacekeeping eternally in order to protect the oil installations of Chinese and Russian companies or face a sky high oil price that threatens to kill their economy.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 13:36 utc | 24

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21, 2014 9:29:28 AM | 23

from 2011

The JRTN Movement and Iraq’s Next Insurgency

] Many former Ba`athists and Ba`athist-affiliated tribal shaykhs lost status after 2003 and continue to be legally ostracized by the Islamist parties in the south. These outcasts sometimes assist former regime elements in carrying out attacks in the south, such as the attacks over the last year in Basra Province. Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri also maintained close ties with a number of southern tribes, to whom he acted as benefactor during the Saddam years.

This has been in the works for a long time. Some people have been asleep.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 13:49 utc | 25

in order to protect the oil installations of Chinese and Russian companies or face a sky high oil price that threatens to kill their economy.

it should read

in order to destroy the oil installations of Chinese and Russian companies or to rationalize and justify the artificially high price of oil that provides a bountiful ROI for the WWON (World Wide Oligarch Network).

It doesn't matter whether the Iranians are labeled as Persians versus Arabs — both are inadequate descriptors for the purposes of analysis and really distractions. Iran, like so many other players, is an opportunist first and foremost. It seeks to take advantage of any opportunity that manifests no matter how heinous the means. That means they have, and do, get in bed with some of the most vile characters to walk the face of the Earth.

Posted by: Cold N Holefield | Jun 21 2014 13:52 utc | 26

@cocaine hole
Some of the most vile characters to walk the face of the earth? Sounds like you are stuck in the past---Pahlavi has been out of power for three and a half decades---that mirror beckons, and I doubt they'll take you up on your offer.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21 2014 14:01 utc | 27

"OMFG is too brusque with his rhetoric for my taste, but his ideas are much better than yours have proved to be." Massinissa@22

OMFG is a troll.

This sockpuppet, clearly British, probably operating out of a Call Centre run by spooks, is now on his sixth or perhaps eighth nom de plume in the past year. His purpose is to channel the discussion in anti-American and anti-Jewish directions. Hence his insistence that theories relegating US involvement to a secondary level be rejected.

The spooks and provocateurs welcome another site in which US power is celebrated-albeit in an indirect fashion- by insisting that Washington directs everything, understands all and must be blamed, solely, for everything that happens.

What they don't want is for the internet to become a forum for the wide range of ideas and possibilities, the rational consideration of which results in accurate and reliable analysis.

Propaganda doesn't work on people who think critically. It is designed to overwhelm the feeble defences of those used to restricting debate, insisting on narrow conformity and doing as they are told...

..of course, I might be completely mistaken and OMFG might just be a foulmouthed, British bully with very limited knowledge of the world, and masses of cheek, or chutzpah.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2014 14:16 utc | 28

"... anti-jewish directions"

I have never once seen OMFG say anything truly anti-semitic, only anti-zionist.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 14:26 utc | 29

Hes certainly a bully, but accusing him of anti-semitism doesnt seem accurate.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 14:27 utc | 30

Posted by: Ronald Thomas West | Jun 21, 2014 8:14:38 AM | 20

I started reading your blog, it does not rhyme though with what I have heard of the Vietnam War and Latin America. Maybe you should quote the year and the place you describe.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 14:33 utc | 31

@28 I find them both boring but at least 'somebody' has something to say. foff is a one trick pony. Basically all he does is accuse people of lying. If it wasn't 'somebody' foff would find another poster to attack.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 14:36 utc | 32

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21, 2014 10:27:44 AM | 30

I think bevin is refering to earlier incarnations. My experience is that you can wind him up easily when you suggest that Zionism might not all powerful or the US empire could be simply stupid

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 14:37 utc | 33

"The West is trying to get from Iraq what it didn't achieve through Syria.

Posted by: Mina"

I guess it's Saudi Arabia who wants to redo the "Morsi coup" but this against Shia Al Maliki to take over Iraq as it failed to take over Syria...

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 21 2014 14:45 utc | 34

Obama: ‘Fantasy’ to Think Syrian Rebels Could Have Beaten Assad with U.S. Arms

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-fantasy-to-think-syrian-rebels-could-have-beaten-assad-with-u-s-arms/

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 21 2014 14:47 utc | 35

I must say I've found the last few threads to be practically unreadable from all this "too brusque rhetoric" - in fact the near-total saturation of ad hominem attacks. I suppose driving people away is the intent, but it's a shame because this can be a useful resource for people like me trying to learn some things.

Ad hominem is automatic invalidation in any discussion. As I say, it's a shame.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 21 2014 14:49 utc | 36

@33 Interesting. It didn't occur to me that you might be winding him up. Good work. I must apologize for calling you boring.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 14:50 utc | 37

How cute! The Counterpunching Donkey Donger trio of bevin( obviously "panzer"), his lying disinfo pal "somebody" and the most boring man on earth dh, all having a little love-fest.

Bevin/Panzer accuses anyone that says nything intelligent of being either a spook or an anti-semite because he's never had an original thought himself and is suspicious of anyone that does have them

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 14:57 utc | 38

@38 Yes foff we all met up in a cyber cafe and decided to have a go at the silliest poster on the board. Waste of time really. You will probably take it as a compliment.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 15:02 utc | 39

Seems fairly clear to me, it's all laid out in Brookings Middle East Memo #21 and the Yinon plan. Partition Iraq, put the Sunni monkey wrench in the Shia crescent, weaken Iran and Hezbollah, continue to bleed Syria, foment never ending sectarian/ regional war to keep them all fighting each other for Israel's security (as they see it). Divide and conquer, Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline never happens (not any time soon at least), and as an added bonus you get the new face of terror in the form of too-radical-for al Queda (so the story goes) in Isis- fear them, fear them mightily! Possible false flag to come, MAYBE a NATO intervention or even full invasion of Syria, doubtful I think but if we see the Assad-works-with-Isis meme being pushed, then you can bet that's coming, which may not be necessary but I think that would send a clear signal it's guaranteed. All options are on the table right? Isn't that our military doctrine boiled down to six words? Or is it, shoot first and ask questions later? Questions like, what do we do after the freedom bombs have destroyed every last vestige of civil institutions and infrastructure? Only after the question our neo-conts apparently always ask themselves first... What could POSSIBLY go wrong? But this whole fiasco involves basically every country in the middle east as well as NATO, Israel, and Russia- especially now with Putin's unqualified support for Maliki coming a day after every msm outlet and imperial congress critter declared in unison "Maliki must go". Where this goes from here is pretty much an open question imo, chaos and bloodshed in the near term being about the only sure thing. High oil prices and increased profits for weapons manufacturers too I suppose. All in all how this shakes out is going to shape the middle east for decades to come and have world-wide consequences, which you can say about almost anything to a point- but I believe this situation in particular carries with it extremely important, wide ranging effects on the future.

Posted by: Colinjames | Jun 21 2014 15:19 utc | 40

What they don't want is for the internet to become a forum for the wide range of ideas and possibilities, the rational consideration of which results in accurate and reliable analysis.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 21, 2014 10:16:19 AM | 28

Certainly little chance of that around here given the drivel you have been posting under your various pseudonyms - there is absolutely nothing "reliable" in your childish "Imperial Ineptitude" nonsense - the only reliable thing that could be said about it is that we can rely on it being wrong

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 15:20 utc | 41

@ 21.

What are the odds that the Aswat Al Iraq Basra article is spin tank hokum?

This sentence can mean whatever one wants it to mean...
"The source added that most of the companies minimized the number of their personnel, including oil companies, like BP and Exxon Mobil."

i.e. "like BP and Exxon Mobil" is very different from "including BP and Exxon Mobil"
Could a Chinese (or other non-Empire) oil co be described as "like BP and Exxon ... and still be accurate?
Chinese oil outfits were chased out of Libya by Shrillary & Sarkozy's R2P vandals and mass murderers. Have they been chased out of Iraq too?
Last time I heard, non-Empire entities were winning more and 'better' Iraqi oil exploitation contracts than those aligned with Iraq's Western 'saviours.'

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 21 2014 15:22 utc | 42

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 21, 2014 11:22:30 AM | 42
this is Reuters - Exxon and BP evacuting "non essential" production people

They are all there, including China, Russia, India ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 15:32 utc | 43

Paper supporting OMFGs thesis that this is intentional policy:

http://notthemsmdotcom.wordpress.com/

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 15:34 utc | 44

Seems fairly clear to me, it's all laid out in Brookings Middle East Memo #21 and the Yinon plan.

Posted by: Colinjames | Jun 21, 2014 11:19:54 AM | 40

Yes, but it doesn't matter to the Zio-Donkey Donging contingent if it has all been clearly laid out years ago.

The only thing that matters is whether or not things like the Yinon Plan negate their childish "Imperial Ineptitude" nonsense.

Since it obviously does negate that stupid thesis, therefore the existance of things like the 30yr old Yinon Plan simply MUST be ignored, or denied, in favour of convincing everyone of "the troof!" of the childish and inaccurate "Imperial Ineptitude" nonsense

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 15:37 utc | 45

omfg/foff - whatever.. both you and jsore talk down to people or a regular basis, implying everyone except you/jsore are capable of seeing the 'truth'. i have a huge problem with that, aside from truth being a lot more complicated then some bible puncher might suggest. both you and jsore are indeed one trick ponies.

the fact you regularly resort to swearing, something a juvenile would fall back on for affect, doesn't speak highly of your approach either.. skip the bullshit and offer some informed content. leave the attacking of others out of it. it makes both you and jsore look bad.. oh, i know - you probably don't give a fuck..

b, if he is paying any attention to this thread today, would be wise to ban you..

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2014 15:38 utc | 46

The ‘wars’, occupations, in Afgh and Iraq were entered into for purely financial purposes.

Pentagon, Army, defense, arms contractors, security, etc. plus civil society in re-construction, telecoms, NGOs, wheat and agri globalisation (Australia for ex. was right hand man to Bremer to sell its wheat.) To take an example of the trickle-down Italy sold endless pipes, toilets, and marble bath rooms (big industry in It) that never arrived. Much of this fraud was paid by the tax-payer, but not only.

There was stiff competition for contracts, went thru bribery, underground deals, etc. and many Cos. that entered there failed as it was all a question of ‘influence’ and ‘knowing the right ppl’ as well as understanding the terrain, etc. The risk was high, those who took it and failed can weep, that is the credo of adventuring entrepreneurs. McCain and the like want nothing but more subsidies for more ‘intervention’ as it is all gold, easy money.

Nobody cares about Iraqis, the Gvmt, Maliki, Islam, terrorists, Shia vs. Sunni, whatever, that is a given. The only point is to squeeze the last blood out of the stone, so while the Iraqis can no longer pay for anything, they can’t buy meds or clean water or hamburgers or tampax or fresh apples … So the only profit to be made is by another military spree. For more killing..

Dead bodies, imprisoned ppl, devastated regions present an oppo for profits to many. Short term of course.

I realise this only one particular angle and doesn’t cover/explain the whole scene. I mention it because it is neglected here.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 21 2014 15:43 utc | 47

It is a "divine troof" for the Ineptitudes like Bevin/Panzer that the Elite are just really really f'n stoopid. They have convinced themselves that THEY are really really smart and that our rulers are really really dumb

SO having to revisit that "religious troof" of theirs is completely anathema

although I suspect that in the case of Bevin the real issue might be that he would paint as anathema any idea not originating from over-educated pseudo-intellectuals like himself, no matter how good or accurate it is.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 15:43 utc | 48

@46

I agree that OMFG is annoying as hell and a pain in the ass to read.

But what he is saying on Iraq is still largely the truth: ISIS and groups like it are official US policy, not some kind of 'accident' made by imperial incompetence.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 15:46 utc | 49

Being rude or even being a bully is not the same as being incorrect

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 15:47 utc | 50

From the paper I linked to: "Yet contrary to all such critical imperialist false concepts, a correct analysis reveals the antagonism within Iraq is in fact entirely political and a result of the principal aspect of the contradiction: the age-old imperial policy of fomenting and excacerbating sectarian and ethnic antipathy to divide, destroy, and dominate the productive forces – a policy employed with varied, yet invariably brutal and reactionary results in Iraq since the US invasion of 2003."

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 15:48 utc | 51

both you and jsore talk down to people or a regular basis,

James

Actually james with the exception of a small number of commenters here, almost all the other regulars do talk down to others when it please them to do so - certainly the likes of Bevin/Panzer has no problem doing so, but like the bitchy little queen that he is, he gets very very offended and upset when he has the same treatment handed out to him.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 15:48 utc | 52

Being rude or even being a bully is not the same as being incorrect

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21, 2014 11:47:23 AM | 50

anyone I have bullied has at some point attempted to do the same to me, and always before I ever did anything of the sort to them - I just bully back harder than they expected, which causes them to whine like spoiled little brats

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 15:50 utc | 53

@49/50 Massinissa - i agree with you on this and have agreed with omfg on a number of occasions for the same reason. the attacks get tiring though.

@52 omfg. i agree with you in this, and am guilty from time to time too. when reading today's thread though, i found your multiple posts to be over the top in this regard. why not let others say their piece, however ignorant you might think them to be, without resorting to attacking them for saying it? it's possible to say your thoughts without doing this.

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2014 15:59 utc | 54

JSorrentine and OMFG are my two favorite commenters here. Others are more outraged by their style than their content? And never can contradict their facts?

Alrighty then.

Posted by: just me | Jun 21 2014 16:01 utc | 55

ok james I'll take on board what you say but it does seem funny, and slightly pathetic tbh, that all the ranting by the Ineptitudes is related to style or tone rather than disputing facts

If they are that fragile then perhaps the internet is not the best place for them - though as I said earlier, imho they're really not that concerned with tone because they have no problem lowering the tone whenever it suits them, they just don't like it when they get the same returned to them, and they certainly don't like being ridiculed in the same manner they like to ridicule others (Cold N H for example ;-)

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:09 utc | 56

just foff more likely.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 16:10 utc | 57

@55/56 - obviously content is what we are looking for, else we wouldn't bother being here. many times i find other posters offering useful links that i wouldn't have found, or perspectives i wouldn't have considered. for that i can thank everyone including omfg. i have made my comment - primarily about style and tone - which i think does have some impact on everything too, but ultimately the content is what i am interested in. cheers james

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2014 16:14 utc | 58

just foff yerself, dh ;-)

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:17 utc | 59

@ 59 I was thinking of doing just that foff. Got a few jobs to do. Before I go can I get your take on the 300 advisers Obama just sent to Iraq. Any idea what they will be doing there?

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 16:24 utc | 60

Before I go can I get your take on the 300 advisers Obama just sent to Iraq. Any idea what they will be doing there?

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 12:24:15 PM | 60

The usual, I should imagine

the strategy has worked quite effectively for them countless times over that last 50 yrs or so, despite what the Ineptitudes would like to con us into believing, so "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I guess would be their motto

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:29 utc | 61

261 Thank you but I was hoping for something a little more specific. Death squads etc. no doubt but who will they be targeting? Sunnis, Shiites or intransigent Kurds?

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 16:36 utc | 62

Ok, well you pop a 100 dollar Euros in the post and I'll write ya a 5 page essay on the subject, deal?

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:41 utc | 63

Postal Address

OMFG Mansion,
Hubble Rd,
Cheltenham GL51 0EX,
United Kingdom

you sort out the 100 Euros and I'll pop that in the return post for ya

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:45 utc | 64

Hmmm. Sounds like a cop out. My guess is the advisors will be assessing the state of Iranian involvement.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 16:46 utc | 65

@62

Whose to say its not all of the above?

Im assuming it wont be Kurds though. Seems to me they will just indiscriminately kill Sunnis and make it look like the shiites did it and kill shiites and make it look like the sunnis did it to get them both pissed at eachother. Ala Kiev.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 21 2014 16:47 utc | 66

#43
And it is certainly unrelated to the Indian and Turkish hostages at the hands of ISIL in Mosul, of whom the Western press is very reluctant to talk about

#47
Is it neglected? You believe some here don't realize from where and which whose money the weapons are bought?

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 16:54 utc | 67

damn it Massinissa

you ruined my scam - I was going to print out 5 A4 sheets with nothing but "all of the above" written repeatedly on every line and post it to poor old dh

Now I'll have to find another sucker for that 100 Euros

Seems to me they will just indiscriminately kill Sunnis and make it look like the shiites did it and kill shiites and make it look like the sunnis did it to get them both pissed at eachother. Ala Kiev.

That is pretty much what they did before, when they were in full-occupation of Iraq, and as I said earlier : "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I guess would be their motto

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 16:54 utc | 68

Secret U.S. Plan to Aid Iraq Fizzled Amid Mutual Distrust
The Obama's Administration Devoted Only a Handful of U.S. Specialists to the Task.

Instead of providing Iraqis with real-time drone feeds and intercepted communications from the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, the militant group that has overrun parts of Iraq, U.S. intelligence specialists typically gave their Iraqi counterparts limited photographic images, reflecting U.S. concerns that more sensitive data would end up in Iranian hands, these officials said.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 17:00 utc | 69

yeah cos if it appears in the WSJ it simply MUST be true!!

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 17:07 utc | 70

Your generalizations don't help foff. Massanissa at least tried to explain what the 300 observers will be doing. My understanding is that Americans in Iraq rarely venture outside the Green Zone. These 300 observers won't know the good guys from the bad guys and they'll be viewed as spies by everybody. Iraq is still very much a tribal society. Apart from finding a few drone targets it's hard to see what they will be doing.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 17:22 utc | 71

Germany seizes offshore bank documents including those of the Ben Laden family
http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2014/06/21/des-milliers-des-donnees-bancaires-suisses-saisies-dans-un-port-allemand_4442949_3234.html

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 17:25 utc | 72

There are some sure media signs that the plotters are not on the same page.

eg The consistency in Main Stream Media that is used to frame the narrative as ISIL/terrorists taking over - see this NYT map visualizing a huge area - indicating that the public is being prepared that action has to be taken

versus earlier attempts to frame a Baathist "Sunni Spring" - see Daily Telegraph last year and ISIL being supported by tribal and Baathist groups with support of the population - Rudaw now

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s (ISIS) lightning advance into Mosul stunned the world, but its ability to continue to control the city — and even prompt residents to return — is entirely reliant on its cooperation with local Sunni militias and tribes.

The city of Mosul, home to some 2 million people, has been under full control of ISIS and Sunni militia groups, including those led by former Baath army chiefs, since June 10. The International Organization for Migration reported that 500,000 Mosul residents fled the city for the Kurdistan Region as well as other parts of the Nineveh province including the outskirts of its capital, Mosul.

If the figures are correct, that means just one-quarter of Mosul’s population fled. In fact, the Barzani Charity Foundation, an NGO headquartered in Erbil working with the IDPs, told Rudaw Network that many are heading back to Mosul, following reports that the city is relatively safe — though under ISIS control.
...
Atheel al-Nujaifi, who has served as Nineveh governor since 2009, fled the city as ISIS swooped in. He has told Rudaw and other media outlets that the militants treated locals better than the Iraqi Army had.

In an interview with Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, one Mosul resident welcomed the Iraqi army's retreat.

"We suffered a decade of raids, killings, displacement, and bombardment," he said. "Now, members of the Iraqi army have decided to withdraw from the province to let the people live in freedom, while the newcomers, through loudspeakers in the mosques, have told the people that they do not want anything but for everyone to live his life, and that they will provide services."

Should Mosul’s armed groups continue their efforts to win over the public and provide locals with more support than Iraqi army did, it could take months or years for the Iraqi army to recapture Nineveh province and the city of Mosul — or perhaps it never will.

According to Death Penalty Worldwide, “The majority of individuals imprisoned and sentenced to death are Sunni Arabs who remain a minority group in Iraq.”

Tariq Hashimi, a prominent Sunni leader and the former Iraqi vice-president, is among them. Now in exile in Turkey, an Iraqi court in September 2012 sentenced Hashimi to death in absentia for orchestrating terror attacks on officials and security forces. (After ISIS and Sunni Iraqi tribes took over Mosul, Hashimi welcomed what he called “the revolution” on his Facebook page.)

A few months later, then-Finance Minister Rafi al-Issawi, also a prominent Sunni politician and one of the last Sunni Arabs remaining in Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s Shiite-dominated government, survived an apparent assassination attempt shortly after the Iraqi army raided his office and arrested 150 of his staff members. He resigned in March 2013 during mass anti-government protests in Sunni-majority areas such as Falluja, Anbar and Mosul.

The protests against Sunni persecution remained relatively peaceful until the Iraqi government accused the demonstrators of colluding with Al-Qaeda and Baath Party operatives. In April 2013, security forces attacked a protest camp in the town of Hawija in northern Iraq; the ensuing gun battles between Sunnis and the security forces killed nearly 50 people.

Rudaw is connected to the Kurdish president. Which makes the sympathy even more interesting.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 17:29 utc | 73

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 1:22:55 PM | 71

could you write us a 5 page essay explaining all of your reasoning in minute detail please - otherwise it's hard to take you seriously as a "serious" pundit.

You can send to bill to my empolyers at the address given above @64

Thanks

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 17:35 utc | 74

While the crackpots of the earth get united to start betting on which side the Mahdi will take, it is business as usual in Palestine
http://angryarab.blogspot.de/2014/06/in-western-media-this-is-referred-to-as.html

Posted by: Mina | Jun 21 2014 17:37 utc | 75

Listening to BBC about 3 hours ago there was a reporter explaining that "tens of thousands of Shias were amassing downtown, shouting 'Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!'" Then the reporter interviewed a youngster with broken English who said "This is the new Madhi army!"

Talked to a woman neighbor a minute ago who said that on TV it looked like there might be 200,000 in that crowd.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 21 2014 17:49 utc | 76

Colinjames@40

Yinon Plan would be accomplished by a coalition of Israeli, Saudi, and US neocons, all of whom have some interest in deconstructing Iraq. That seems to be what is happening with the ISIS offensive in Iraq. Cheney, et al, surely partner with Bandar in ISIS ownership whether overtly or covertly.

What is less clear is Obama's intention in the Iraq conflict. Obama held months of secret talks with Iran last year that pissed off neocons. Obama never bombed Syria, which pissed off neocons. Both developments caused a rift with Saudi Arabia. Obama's response to ISIS (beyond demanding Maliki resign, which clearly wasn't going to happen) is as neutral as he can practically be. What Obama is *doing* may be more preferential to the Israeli/Saudi/Neocon side, but we haven't seen results of Obama's actions yet.

Meanwhile, Putin strongly supports Maliki. Gotta wonder if, in addition to the Yinon plan, the Israeli/Saudi/Neocon plan is to open a second front in a war against Russia since Putin refuses to take the bait in Ukraine. After all, for neocons, the grand prizes in the Great Game are Russia and China.

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jun 21 2014 17:59 utc | 77

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 21, 2014 1:49:52 PM | 76

they seem to have paraded a group of suicide bombers, which must look really comforting to Western audiences.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 17:59 utc | 78

The idea that in the US support for the Yinon plan can only be found amongst Neo-Cons, is one of the best cons going.

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 18:08 utc | 79

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jun 21, 2014 1:59:08 PM | 77

Saudi neocon is unlikely (other than self hating) as neocons intended to split Eastern Shiite provinces. Neocons did have a Shiite strategy.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 18:08 utc | 80

BBC has this report. It containstwo interesting videos.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27953312

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 21 2014 18:18 utc | 81

The point is that US policy positions are not monolithic. There is likely some palace intrigue in the Obama admin right now between hard core neocons and more moderate neocon leaning players. Internal conflict would explain the schizophrenic reversals in foreign policy like the failure to bomb Syria after months of run up, secret six month talks with Iran, the love hate reports of Obama/Putin, etc. ISIS's offensive is not a ME issue alone, it is global and ought to be seen in the greater context of the New Cold War, depolarization, BRICS, etc. etc.

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jun 21 2014 18:32 utc | 82

MoA troll culture ebbs and flows, but I still lurk through threads for the names I appreciate, like Bevin and Noirette. so thank you non-trolls for adding to the conversation and helping me understand the deadly games the plutocrats are playing as the world burns.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 21 2014 18:35 utc | 83

Vile Iranians.whistle.Could you document their vileness?If you bring up the CIA thug holding,I'll rap your knuckles for woodenheadness and fail you for the semester.
Somebody;The day the Jews and Zionist retire their Purim revenge hatefest,maybe then the Iranians will realize the monsters wish to be friends.If their was good relations prior to the shah,it was Zionist manipulation,they have no honor,and despise the concept.
We want to end the Shia regime,it's a total embarrassment and bad taste in the mouth to the ill laid plans of the neolibcon monsters that they are allied to Iran.Absurdity writ large,as in whose fault would that be.

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 21 2014 18:42 utc | 84

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jun 21, 2014 2:32:19 PM | 82

agreed. plus external groups try to influence with changing success.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 21 2014 18:43 utc | 85

like Bevin and Noirette. so thank you non-trolls for adding to the conversation and helping me understand the deadly games the plutocrats are playing as the world burns.

Posted by: lizard | Jun 21, 2014 2:35:39 PM | 83

but your hero Bevin/Panzer claims that all the Empires deadly games are merely the result of nothing but their own Ineptitude.

Given that ISIS, just like Al-CIA-duh before it, is clearly an Empire Proxy, How does claiming it's all the result of Ineptitude help anyone understand anything?

If anything it is more likely to entirely mislead people

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 18:48 utc | 86

@82 Right. The Sunday talk shows will no doubt be loaded with experts telling us about the Putin/Maliki Axis. Kurdish independence will be glorified. Anybody's guess what they say about ISIS.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 18:49 utc | 87

Anybody's guess what they say about ISIS.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 2:49:16 PM | 87

They'll say that ISIS is the direct result of Maliki's "failure as a leader"

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 18:53 utc | 88

@88 I'm hearing that already. On the other hand I'm not sure they want Maliki gone. Still wondering where the 300 observers are going to fit in. Can't see them lasting long in Fallujah.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 18:58 utc | 89

@88 I'm hearing that already.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21, 2014 2:58:14 PM | 89

Well you'll be hearing more of it on Sunday, then.

Still wondering where the 300 observers are going to fit in. Can't see them lasting long in Fallujah.

You realise that the observers ain't actually there to "observe", right? :)

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 21 2014 19:01 utc | 90

@90 Of course I do you twerp. I suppose I should have put observers in inverted commas to help you.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 19:07 utc | 91

from the Yinon Plan

http://members.tripod.com/alabasters_archive/zionist_plan.html

"There is no chance that Jordan will continue to exist in its present structure for a long time, and Israel's policy, both in war and in peace, ought to be directed at the liquidation of Jordan under the present regime and the transfer of power to the Palestinian majority."

from Debka

http://www.debka.com/article/24024/Netanyahu-to-Obama-IDF-on-the-Jordan-is-sole-security-guarantee-against-ISIS-for-Israel-Hashemite-kingdom-and-Palestinians

are these as reconcilable as a dispensationalist's reading of the Book of Revelation?

Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 21 2014 19:07 utc | 92

"The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must 1) become an imperial regional power, and 2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states."

Yes, but using militant Sunni jihadists to do so and assuming they can be contained ultimately while Israel expands?

Worse than inept.

Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 21 2014 19:20 utc | 93

@ 92 I guess they can liquidate Jordan after they've destroyed ISIS which we all know is an Empire Proxy. Or maybe it's time to rethink the Yinon Plan. foff is the resident expert on that.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 19:21 utc | 94

@93
Not inept. Remember Saudis are part of the "plan". The Saudis are funding all the jihadists groups in the world as far as we can tell. Plus at this moment they are on their way to destroying the MB - totally if they can - they've already damaged it considerably.

When the Yinon Plan is realized, all the Saudis have to do is cut off support for their jihadis. And they will, Saudis are Israel's most important ally, and vice versa.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 21 2014 19:50 utc | 95

@94 Mind you I think foff confuses the Yinon Plan with the Ten Commandments.

Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2014 19:51 utc | 96

@94
Or more likely, Israel uses available opportunities to achieve goals that are stepping stones. And if one moves away from a biblical interpretation, Yinon's writings would have been part of a larger discussion in Israeli security discussions. At any rate, ISIS won't be attacking Israel, even without Jordan, as they want to attack Iran. And again, as has been obvious for a while, most of the 'oppositional groups' Palestinian and otherwise are coopted---go read e.g. those shredded embassy documents; at that time Palestinian leaders were telling the US that they regard the USSR as a bigger threat than Israel, i.e. they were lackies of their funders. Right now their funders are USA, Saudi, and probably Qatar and Israel. If they do something goofy, they'll get bombed---the life of an imperialist stooge appears not to be too easy.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21 2014 19:59 utc | 97

Who "Interferes" In Iraq?

I think the better question at this point is who doesn't interfere in Iraq? For those who aren't, if there are parties that aren't, they're missing out.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 21 2014 20:13 utc | 98

@94 Mind you I think foff confuses the Yinon Plan with the Ten Commandments.

PNAC and The Neocons will be blamed for blowing up the moon a thousand years from now. Just you wait and see.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 21 2014 20:15 utc | 99

The other matter regarding Yinon and Jordan is that the peace treaty between Israel and Jordan was signed in 1994; the Yinon plan dates from 1982.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 21 2014 20:17 utc | 100