Ukraine: The Association Agreement Is Likely To Fail

June 27, 2014

The temporary truce in Ukraine will soon be over and the Ukrainian army will then try to squash the insurgency by all possible means. It is unlikely to achieve that.

Today the coup president signed an EU association agreement in Brussels. The preferred trade status with Russia will thereby be over and the Ukraine will fall into a deep depression. Its industry is not competitive against western European ones and it can not be sustained without the Russian markets. The most knowledgeable engineers and workers, especially from the big weapon producers, will move to Russia and leave the Ukrainian industry to rot.

As Mark Adomanis correctly remarks:

The association agreement has always been seen in highly politicized and symbolic terms as a “civilizational choice” in which Ukraine would be able to leave behind its dark, eastern past and march forward into the safety and comfort of the European Union. This was a huge mistake. In reality the association agreement has nothing to do with culture or history and is much more basic: a highly technocratic bit of economic liberalization. There is no “European” way to end gas subsidies, and no “civilized” way to cut pensions. These steps are either taken or they are avoided. Since economic liberalization is not very popular in Ukraine, since Ukrainians continues to express extremely left-wing economic views, the struggle to implement free trade is likely to be long and nasty.

The agreement will still have to be signed off, and then implemented, by a new Ukrainian parliament. I seriously doubt that will happen.

Meanwhile the fighting in the east will continue and, when the coming push by the army fails as it is likely to do, will see further steps towards more independence for the eastern regions.

Posted by b on June 27, 2014 at 14:32 UTC | Permalink

Comments

I ran across a Russian language Wiki that is about Russian pop culture. Here is the Yandex translation of the article on Americans.
I wonder if there’s an equivalent of this in other countries.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 29 2014 23:10 utc | 101

#100 interesting that you bring up the Latvians. I agree that they are very similar to the Ukrainians — basically peasant cultures without much else. Ukraine should see what has happened to the Latvians over the last 15 years. After fleeing from the Soviet Union they have been begging to part of Europe. They joined eagerly into the neo-liberal economy. They sold many of he assets to western corporations. They went into debt against mostly Swedish banks and in 2008 when the financial crisis hit their government willingly honored those debts to stay in the good graces of the west. Their economy took the biggest hit of all after 2008. One result is that the debt burden is so heavy that most money produced there now goes to paying interest. The population of Latvians have dropped by 10%. The loss is due to the younger potentially more productive members having emigrated to other European countries for paying jobs. Some demographers are beginning to predict that the Latvian language will be dead in a few generations. Latvian will soon join Livonian and Old Prussian as another extinct language. All because of their fear of Russian culture and their fleeing into the arms of western capitalists.
Look at the positive side of things. Let the Galician provinces of Ukraine flee into the waiting arms of Europe — who knows, that might also turn the Ukrainian dialect into an extinct language.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 29 2014 23:23 utc | 102

Here’s something I ran into in a link in that satirical Russian Wikipedia I mentioned. It is from 2008. So the current Ukrainian genocide has been a long time coming. I honestly don’t think the Americans can be blamed for it. Ukrainian nationalists hate Russians with a passion, and that’s not something that the Americans could have taught them so quickly.

Life in Ukraine is increasingly reminiscent of a surreal picture, Recalling the terrible ghosts of the past, where there is no logic of the events and, bigotry and ignorance ruled. …
Dear readers, I draw your attention to what happened. The MINISTER of CULTURE named the mother tongue of millions of their fellow citizens a DOG’S language. Which, by the way, pay taxes for the maintenance of the Cabinet of Ministers in General, and Mr Minister Vovkun in particular. Yes, even if the Minister would call any other language, no matter what, whether or Hawaiian Urdu, dog, it would show its full service mismatch, as a man of culture could not in principle make such a statement. In a normal country such verbal diarrhea would result in automatic dismissal and personal ostracism of such a person in the environment normal people, because such rhetoric from the mouth of a bureaucrat is suitable in the Third Reich, but not a democratic state that aspires to enter the European family of Nations.
We have let this fact go unnoticed. Most of the media kept silent, as did many politicians. Although the website Observer (hm, who had a newspaper named Der volkische Beobachter?) is quite a popular Internet resource read by hundreds of thousands of people. But there was no noise. Everything is in order. The person in charge of culture believes half of the population to be dogs. For who, except dogs, would speak to each other in a “dog” language? There are no attempts from the government to force Vovkun to retire, or to force him to apologize, or to publicly refute the statement of Dobkin [who related in an interview what Vovkun said in a closed meeting].

The western media are in effect collaborating with Nazis when they keep from their readers than a genocidal hatred of Russians is completely mainstream among Ukrainian nationalists. Germans especially should be particularly ashamed of this. By supporting the “government” in Kiev, the German government is supporting exactly the same people that it repeatedly says that the Germans are grateful to the Americans for being liberated from.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 30 2014 2:40 utc | 103

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 06/27/2014-01:11
Question: The Ukrainian militaries have carried out a chemical weapon attack on combatants positions.
Strelkov:

Two combatants are in sever conditions (poisoned by phosphorus vapors), sent to “Donetsk”. One – in very severe. At the moment (30 minutes to 11 p.m.) , shelling of “Slavkurort” (“Slav-resort”) is under way. 240 mm howitzers are put at work. There are few sites of intense conflagration there.

Question: Any foreign mercenaries among prisoners.
Strelkov:

So far these have not been captured. Positively, there are some within fallen. But alive – none. Because, you know, we defend rather than attack; therefore, number of prisoners is small.
Boom! From “Karachun”. There a battery of “Akatsias” (“Acacia”, self-propelled 152 mm howitzer) was again installed.

Posted by: Fete | Jun 30 2014 3:10 utc | 104

New York Times

MOSCOW — The leaders of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France spoke by telephone on Sunday about how to stop the fighting in eastern Ukraine, which has continued despite a cease-fire called by the government that insurgent leaders said they would join.
No concrete new steps to end the violence were announced after the call, which included three presidents, Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine, Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and François Hollande of France, and Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. But the four leaders agreed to keep talking over the coming days. That appeared to further reduce any chance that the European nations would soon impose new sanctions against Russia for doing too little to end the insurrection in eastern Ukraine, where rebel leaders include a number of Russian citizens.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 30 2014 4:05 utc | 105

“By supporting the “government” in Kiev, the German government is supporting exactly the same people that it repeatedly says that the Germans are grateful to the Americans for being liberated from.
Posted by: Demian | Jun 29, 2014 10:40:12 PM | 103″
Again: Germany is an occupied country and has nothing to say at all. When you talk of germany, you cann call Washington or London directly if you have any questions.

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 30 2014 13:20 utc | 106

Rumour that polish FM is going to be next EU fm.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 30 2014 15:53 utc | 107

Poroshenko has unilaterally ended the cease-fire

“Ukrainian Armed Forces, National Guard, and other units would never allow themselves to use force against peaceful people. They will never assault the residential quarters. Ukrainian soldiers and guards will be risking their lives, so as not to expose threats to women, children and elderly people,” Poroshenko said, adding, “such is the eternal nature of the Ukrainian military valor.”

Yukie nationalists are something else. They are obsessed with everything Ukrainian being “eternal”. And a shibboleth of theirs is that “The Crimea always was, is and will be a part of Ukraine.” Poroshenko said that in his “inauguration” speech, and I saw a Uki English Wikipedia editor write exactly the same thing. Honestly, the original Nazis were much more rational than these people. At least Germany had sovereignty under the Nazis. The Ukis don’t even have that. The only reason they can continue their genocide of Russians is because the Americans are allowing and encouraging them to do that.
There are a series of articles today about the military situation at the Colonal Cassad web site. Here is the Yandex translation of the concluding one. The basic conclusion is that in order to defeat the freedom fighters, the fascists need to have a superiority in forces of an order of magnitude, something which they do not have. (I’m pretty sure that the US military and the CIA aware of that, even if the junta isn’t.)

In other matters, such a strategy and [a Blitzkrieg destroying the resistance] was not visible in the actions of the command of punitive operations. The basic concept of punitive operations is reduced to the occupation of the best positions for artillery fire, which aim to terrorize the people and to destroy the city infrastructure. The global significance of this activity was built on the expectation that any militia, seeing itself powerlessness to prevent such attacks, will leave the cities, or enraged civilians will expel militias from the cities with little help (in the form of wiping-up operations of dissidents) from the VSU and NGU.
The second direction of the activities of the armed forces of Ukraine were diverse variations on the theme of the notorious plan “Anaconda” era of the Civil war in the USA. Block tried simultaneously and Donetsk, and Lugansk, and Slavyansk in particular and the Donetsk region in general. In addition to the brilliant spraying forces were achieved some success. As a result of these actions the junta could take control of Mariupol and Krasnyi Lyman. Today, however, such actions can pose a threat only to garrisons militia force in several dozen fighters.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 30 2014 23:40 utc | 108

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 06/30/2014-16:35
Strelkov:

It is half an hour of stern and random (at areas) shelling of the city by howitzers. Data of victims is being clarified. The opponent tanks cut the road between “Nikolayevka” and “Nikiforovka” south-east of “Rai-Aleksandrovka”.
Communication with “Seversk” was again interrupted. In the course of brisk battle, we sustained three “three hundredths” (wounded) from an attacked block-post. One – severely. Opponent positions on the hind slops of “Karachun” were shelled. At the moment, results are uncertain.
Preliminary data show that following precincts of “Slavyansk” were hit: “Pozharka” (settlement “Artem”), “Mashmet” and “Tselinniy”. One civilian killed, three other wounded. Multitude of destruction. Likely, number of victims is larger. Clarifying. The positions of combatants were not hit at all.

Posted by: Fete | Jul 1 2014 3:41 utc | 109

Refugees from the bandera nazi war on Novorossya describe their experiences:
http://tinyurl.com/n9za2vl Situation report evacuees from Auslander
A few passages:
“First, a caution.
All identifying information such as street names and numbers, personal names, places of work etc is redacted. These people are in danger simply because of who they are. We must protect them but we must also get their story out. The information they gave was detailed and voluminous, far more than what is written here.
My last day at school my friends told me Aellona was dead. Her mother sent her out to find bread. She went to shops. All were closed. She was walking home. A bomb fell right beside her. My friends say she was in pieces. I liked her, she was my friend. Now she is dead. Why? What did she do? I miss her. She was very nice.
Young women and girls began to disappear. We heard a scream one morning. There was the sound of a car running away and a woman started to scream. We went out. The woman was screaming someone took her daughter 13 years. Just one shoe was on street. She had gone to get water. It was two weeks before I left. No one has seen the child in two weeks. I know her mother. More young women and girls have been taken, where to we don’t know but we women know why. They are all young and pretty.
[Following is two version of the same event, by a child and woman there]
[Child]:
My (sibling) could not walk anymore, —- is small. I carried and my mother carried —-. The other woman told us to be strong, soon we would be safe. She carried her child. We came to a road and we walked along the road. We came to a block post, I saw the Ukraine flag. I was afraid. My mother told me to be silent. Young soldiers stopped us, they all had guns. I looked and I saw the Russian flag on the other side of the water. A soldier took the other woman’s passport and started to yell at her with mat. She kicked him and he fell. She told us to run to the other side. There was a lot of cars going across the bridge. Why were the soldiers yelling at us with mat? I did not understand but we all ran.
The soldiers on the other side shouted to us to come, they pushed us through their line, yelling at us to hurry. I was not afraid of these soldiers.
[Woman]:
We found the river. I looked at map again and I see we are 2 kilometers from a bridge. We turned and follow the river. We came to a road and walked down the side of the road. There was a few cars going in both directions. No one stopped to help us. Soon I saw the border, I could see the Ukraine flag. I loved Ukraine. I was born in Ukraine. After what Ukraine did to my city, my friends, after Ukraine killed so many of us for no reason, I hate Ukraine. I hate that flag. I could see the Russian flag on the other side of bridge. I told the other woman to follow me to border. Let me talk to border guard.
There was 3 guards on the walk place, the others were searching cars on road. One guard saw us and started to laugh. He said to his friends we were moskali running away. I told him no, we were going for holiday and our car broke. He asked my passport. He looked at propeeska and got angry. I shouted to the woman and children to run across the bridge. The guard tried to hold my arm. I kicked him hard between legs. I ran after the others with my child in my arms. We are in Russia.”

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 6:01 utc | 110

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/lifenews.ru/news/135850 Strelkov told about the chemical attack of the Ukrainian military
“According to the chief of the army DND, per night in hospital with symptoms of poisoning have three militias.
The chief of the army of the South-East Igor Strelkov confirmed the use of the Ukrainian army chemical weapons. In his words, during the day, under the Slavic poisoned three people. He added that, if the militia was not masks, victims would be much more.
on 29 June, two people were poisoned in Semenovka. Immediately after the start of shelling of ammunition with a chemical substance, the use of which is formed clouds of toxic gas, the way the militia began to wear gas masks. If we were not equipped with individual protection means, the number of victims would be much more, ” said Shooters.
He said that the gas attack on militia cannot be called a “timid attempts”. According to Strelkova, it is targeted attacks. During one of these attacks at the roadblock near the armature-insulator plant suffered militiaman, who hadn’t managed to put on a gas mask. Shooters added that in DND there was no truce, despite the reached with Kiev on 23 June agreement.
– We have a truce and was not as such. Full-scale hostilities began in the morning of 30 June, and is used not only artillery, – said the commander of the army of Donbass.
According to him, on the morning of 30 June, the Ukrainian military has snachala conducted reconnaissance, and then tanks moved on Nikolaevka. Town is under fire mortar and tank guns. Four of militia were wounded.
– With high probability we are waiting for massive artilleriiskii fire to show that the truce is over. First of June we will wait for air strikes. Shells Ukrainian military this week brought a lot, ” continued Shooters.
The term truce declared by the Ukrainian President, Petro Poroshenko, will expire on 30 June 23 hours Moscow time. According to lider LNR Valery Bolotov, after that Kiev will start the global Stripping in DND and LNR.
The Ukrainian military is not the first time use of prohibited ammunition fired DND. on may 11 they applied phosphate mines during the bombing of the outskirts of Slavyansk.
Shells, nachinaniya white phosphorus was used in combat in Vietnam. In 2004 shells with white phosphorus was used by the U.S. army in Iraq, during the battle for the city of Fallujah. In mid-2006, during the second Lebanon war, similar munitions used by the Israeli army.”
Video here:
http://lifenews.ru/news/135850 Стрелков рассказал о химической атаке украинских военных
Other info I’ve seen says the CW gas has chlorine gas properties. The nazis of the west had their cannibal terrorists (or special service actives operating covertly) gas Syrian. Now they use their nazis to gas Novorussians.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 6:12 utc | 111

I arrived a bit late for this one… (world cup distraction, national ego & all that)
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/06/30/the-ascension-of-morons/
^ But the illustration (metaphor) is pretty good, same wave-length

Posted by: Ronald Thomas West | Jul 1 2014 14:25 utc | 112

article from the nyt
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/28/world/europe/ukraine-signs-trade-agreement-with-european-union.html?_r=1
and their sources
http://www.epc.eu/members_list.php
… petro poroshenko foundation…

Posted by: ivanho | Jul 1 2014 15:01 utc | 113

Yukie nationalists are something else. They are obsessed with everything Ukrainian being “eternal”. And a shibboleth of theirs is that “The Crimea always was, is and will be a part of Ukraine.” Poroshenko said that in his “inauguration” speech, and I saw a Uki English Wikipedia editor write exactly the same thing. (..) The only reason they can continue their genocide of Russians is because the Americans are allowing and encouraging them to do that. Demian at 108.
I underestimated the true, deep, vicious hate the ‘Western’, Galicia part of Ukraine feel towards Russians (Russia, Russian speakers, Eastern part of Ukraine.) I ‘knew’ it was there – certainly in pockets of hotbeds, as nationalist folklore, reactionary populism, as a calling card for violence to gangs, and so on – but seeing it now so nakedly displayed without any restraint is surprising. A beast unleashed. I suppose the blessing of the US-EU is a tremendous encouragement. Open up the floodgates so to speak.
Ukrainia! Ukrainia! When will they realise they are being manipulated?
Poroshenko stumbled badly at the Crimea part of his speech. I think he did not want to include it but was obliged to put it in.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1 2014 15:47 utc | 114

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 07/02/2014-2:27
Comment: Strelkov reported ongoing bombardment of “Kramatorsk” by rockets from systems of salvo launching “Grad” (“Hail”). The target are residential quarters of the city, there still more than 100 thousands have not been evacuated.
Strelkov:

Today’s night, their “favorite target” is “Kramatorsk”. Striking with only short intervals by “rocket systems of salvo launch” and howitzers. Specifically aiming at residential quarters. Crowds of people are there – the city had not been comprehensively evacuated… Tomorrow, tens of thousands “fresh” refugees will come up.

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 07/02/2014-19:51
Strelkov:

Today, we successfully accomplished two battles.
The combatants under command of Mosgovoy in outskirts of “Seversk” repelled Ukrainian attack on “Seversk”, crushed and dispersed a reconnaissance armored group. 2 armored carries were burned and left on battlefield, 3 other scattered “in all directions”. The opponent lost substantial personal as well.
Our “Nonas” (self-propelled mortar) assaulted an opponent column at the entrance to block-post “Kombikormoviy”. With high likelihood, it can be claimed destroying of 3 tracks of artillery ammo and 2 fueling cisterns. In retaliation, the opponent massively shelled “Slavyansk”, “Semenovka”, “Cherevkovka”, having inflicted due destruction to industrial plants and residential sector. No losses among the combatants.
The second “Nona” is restored one, which was shot then captured in outskirts of “Yampol`”.
At noon, a truck with humanitarian aid was hit by fire. It barely escaped on pierced tires. Smothering us by “gaunt hand of starvation”… Here are still 40 thousands of residents – all supplies are strictly by humanitarian aid… Not to mention the wounded…
Ukrainians have amassed forces in one of directions. Lined up as to parade. Seemingly, mind to attack. Cannons, cannons, cannons… cannons everywhere, and “rocket salvo systems”. Must commence soon.

Posted by: Fete | Jul 2 2014 4:19 utc | 115

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1, 2014 11:47:17 AM | 114
The manipulation is historical. Part of it was done by the Bolscheviks who fought against their own nationalists, reverted by Stalin and reconfigured by Chrustchev.
No surprise kids are extremely confused – in this interview for example the kid finds it difficult to name the enemy though sure that there is one.
There is a large element of marketing, too. Trying to be someone special, having an adventure. And the reference to the grandparents, it is never the parents.
But it is not these kids who are forcing Poroshenko’s futile hard line. The long term plan seems to be to depopulate an area for fracking and remove/kill the politicians who could prevent the fracking. Trusting that US economic warfare makes the calculation too painful for Russia and trade partners to go against their plans.
US strategists plan very short term. Long term there will be a backlash. There already is.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 5:06 utc | 116

There goes Hungary – We will build South Stream

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 5:40 utc | 117

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1641232.html Terror in Kharkov
“The junta happily says http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/3385991-v-kharkovskoi-oblasty-s-aprelia-zaderzhany-314-separatystov-hubernator that from the beginning of April in the local fascist torture chambers thrown over 300 people. About the same characters, which in January-February arms were twisted, about the fact that in Kiev during the riot police detained more than 100 people and screaming about the unprecedented repression against the civilian datingwalk.com”, now happily applauded terror against its own citizens, unlike Donbass, the vast majority of detainees in Kharkiv, did not take up arms, did not go to kill the Nazis and their hangers-on, they just had a different opinion, they dared to disagree with coup
Thus, a significant part of Kharkovites were in the internal conditions of the occupation, when violence and terror junta has long been repeatedly surpassed all explicit and imaginary crimes of the regime. And as it turned out, for maganoy audience there is nothing wrong in terror, persecution of dissidents and their destruction. They reserve this right for themselves and extremely upset when this right apply to them.
I won’t be here once again to indicate that the Kharkiv citizens themselves largely responsible for this situation, when they could not throw off Kernes, to keep the Kharkiv Oblast State Administration and to create armed units. An example Kharkiv’s just indicative, as the Nazis came to the city, terror suppressed exactly civil protest, which in many aspects and has not gone beyond a simple disagreement which “seeks to Europe”, suppressed massively grabbing activists and public figures dared to think differently and actually dared to think.
In this respect, the examples of Odessa, Kharkiv, Mariupol and other cities, where mass was enough disagree with the fascist coup in Ukraine, clearly indicates why the Donetsk and Lugansk not want to hear about it, to remain under the authority of this regime. Drank some freedom from “independent”, people voluntarily will not be possible again to wear the collar and silently endure everything that the Nazis were doing in Ukraine. How I love to broadcast libertarians – slave tasted freedom, will not voluntarily agree to wear the collar.”

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 5:52 utc | 118

Ukrainian war of “language and ethnicity” and the corporate identity of Russia inc.

In 2008, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that “Ukraine is not even a state”, after labelling the breakup of the Soviet Union as the “greatest geopolitical disaster of the last century” in 2005. In January 2009, when the Russian “gas war” against Ukraine reached its peak, Putin routinely ridiculed Ukrainian identity, calling it a matter of “lard and vodka” [“сало и горилка”] (“Moser Gaskrisendiskurs”). In addition to the Soviet past, Putin has at times used symbols of Russian Tsarist imperialism to underscore Russia’s view that Ukraine was part of its “sphere of interest.” In May 2009, he “gave Russian journalists an unexpected reading tip: the diaries of Anton Denikin, a commander in the White Army, which fought the Bolsheviks after the revolution in 1917,” and a person known for his hatred of so-called “Ukrainian separatism.” Putin referred to Denikin and his attitude toward so-called “Great Russia” and “Little Russia” with great sympathy and emphasized “that no one should be allowed to interfere in relations between us; they have always been the business of Russia itself” (“Moser Language”: 123–179).
At a conference on “The Russian Language on the Boundary of Millennia,” Putin’s then wife Lyudmila declared in her speech:
“The confirmation of the borders of the Russian world is also the assertion and strengthening of Russia’s national interests. The Russian language unifies the people of the Russian world—the aggregate of those who speak and think in that language. The borders of the Russian world extend along the borders of Russian-language usage” (“Gorham”: 28).

and

Contrary to widespread beliefs, Ukraine is not a bilingual state inhabited by two ethnic groups. It is not a monolingual or multi-ethnic state either. Ukraine, like many other countries of the world, including the Russian Federation, is a multi-ethnic and multilingual country.
According to the most recent Ukrainian population census of 2001, “ethnic Ukrainians make up 77.8% of the population,” while the by far largest minority of the country are ethnic Russians (17.3%). Other ethnic groups are small: Belarusians (0.6%), Moldovans (0.5%), Crimean Tatars (0.5%), Bulgarians (0.4%), Hungarians (0.3%), Romanians (0.3%), Poles (0.3%), Jews (0.2%), Armenians (0.2%), Greeks (0.2%), Tatars (0.2%), etc. (see “Opinion”). Ukraine is thus in fact a multi-ethnic state” (ibid.), but this multi-ethnicity is admittedly of a quite specific nature: not only owing to the large percentage of Russians, but also due to the fact that Ukraine is officially considered home to as many as 130 ethnic groups. Notably, the large majority of these groups are made up of dispersed individuals who happened to settle in Ukraine during the Soviet period. Many Ukrainians in fact have multiple ethnic identities, while the censuses offered one nationality option only.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 6:33 utc | 119

Pipe dreams.
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/vz.ru/news/2014/7/2/693730.html Media: Germany and the United States interested in the establishment of a gas hub in Ukraine
“Companies from Germany and the United States, planning to go with shale gas in the Eastern European market, are interested in creating gas hub in Ukraine, said the Deputy head of Naftogaz Alexander Todiychuk.
He explained that the gas hub for such companies is the opportunity to gain a foothold in the region. “Our UGS interesting and sellers, and buyers of gas. Therefore potentially all those interested in the establishment of the hub, they say about our high potential in this business”, – said the Deputy Chairman of the Board of the Ukrainian company in an interview to the newspaper “Kommersant”.
Todiychuk added that Naftogaz “first of all it is important to provide quality services for the storage and transport”. “Because working with UGS will be different: someone will upload, and someone is to raise the gas. In the new conditions it will be practically at the same time. The accounting system should simultaneously work to download and gas lift. Now, the initiative group studies and legal, and technical aspects of operation”, – noted the top-Manager.
In his opinion, the main advantage to create a hub in Ukraine is “a network of existing UGS, which do not require large investments, it allows you to make very attractive storage costs. In addition, the gas from these underground storage facilities can be supplied in at least eight countries.”
At the same time the Deputy head of Naftogaz reported that may be necessary to finish Interconnector (connecting pipelines for operation. “If with Hungary and Slovakia we have enough of pipeline facilities, with Poland we need a separate Interconnector capacity 7-10 billion cubic meters of gas, which in the future we are planning to build. The idea is to associate a terminal for liquefied natural gas in Swinoujscie with Ukraine,” said Todiychuk.”
Those shale gas deposits are predominantly east of Kiev. Guess what that region is now called? Fracking is like slash and burn agriculture in a rain forest, a very few useful years, then squat and a ruined environment for many years. It is an energy extraction version of the financial ponzi schemes the Israeli mafia banksters are so fond of.
Since the shale gas is gaseous flim flam, this Ukrainian gas hub scam is also a fraud. Unless these German and Ukrainian companies are planning ahead for a future in which they see Russian and Central Asian gas under western control, in which case using the Ukraine as a central distribution point makes economic sense.
Perhaps Merkel’s wonton duplicity towards Russia, and Europe, is not due to pressure from the usual western fascist sources, but due to her own association with the forces in Germany aligned with these modern day nazis? In other words, the obese cow is a very willing actor in the proceedings.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 6:47 utc | 120

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2, 2014 2:47:27 AM | 120
It is all about fracking and the sums involved,
everything else is just layer upon layer to cover the criminality.
Merkel is presiding/navigating a split of her party and with her coalition partner on partnership with Russia this is what will be mostly in her mind.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 7:10 utc | 121

fracking legislation in Germany – planned for 2014

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 7:16 utc | 122

NATO fighting for fracking – Rassmussen

Russia ‘secretly working with environmentalists to oppose fracking’
Nato chief, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, says Moscow mounting disinformation campaign to maintain reliance on Russian gas

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 7:19 utc | 123

http://www.fourwinds10.net/resources/uploads/images/Merkel%20as%20Nazi%20-%20Greek%20poster%201.jpg Poor Angela

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 7:20 utc | 124

Hmmmm…judging by the “somebody” spam, I must have struck a nerve. ;D

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 7:23 utc | 125

somebody | Jul 2, 2014 3:10:05 AM | 121
1) Economically the fracking-business is peanuts. The hype around it is highly symbolic for population control and the overall plan to kill off half of worlds populace.
2) You misrepresent german policy. There is no “split” neither in the coalition nor conservative party. For example Merkel made one of the importunate hopeful successors, Norbert Röttgen, Chairman of Foreign Policy Commitee for the americans to play with. Yesterday Röttgen announced in “Deutschlandfunk” positively new sanctions “today” – because the EU “must keep to it’s words”. So Röttgen wasn’t informed and led offside, making himself a fool. BTW: Schäuble did this by telling the press, “surely” there will be new sanctions, eventually, perhaps next week – against a wider range of russian representatives.
This is tradition. All the conservative party offspring outside Bavaria is made blistering atlanticists – and educated to german Realpolitics, as soon, as they take any important office. “Zu Guttenberg” was made a warning example for those, who break this rule, seriously trying to act as american governors.

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 2 2014 8:08 utc | 126

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 2, 2014 4:08:13 AM | 126
1) Agree, but there are billions invested. The money made by banks does not mirror the economy. Before a bubble bursts bonds are sold off to the “stupid money” in Europe (or the government, if it is too late for that). See Lehmann. The planned German legislation on fracking is real.
2) Better example would be Mißfelder,
Guttenberg was transatlanticist I understand.
CDU/CSU has always tasked themselves with integrating the – very real – 20-30% German nationalist right wing. This right wing has always been anti-american. The same right wing being pro Putin Russia is a new development.
Have a look in Youtube, there is a lot of bat crazy anti-american, pacifist, anti-establishment, ecologist, pro Russia, right wing militant fusion stuff out there. CDU will find it very hard to bridge this in election campaigns. Same as Social Democrats who compete for voters with the Green Party and Die Linke.
3. Rasmussen freaking out about Russia funding Greenpeace is telling. In fact, Russia’s policy in Ukraine/Novorussia seems to be a fusion of Western regime change policies with historic communist uprisings/takeovers (People’s Republics, nationalisation of industries). I guess, Russia developed a national and international oligarch ngo policy of her own.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 9:02 utc | 127

The Weimar triangle (France, Germany, Poland) now has shrunk to a duo, by the way – presumably the Strasbourg duo.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 9:25 utc | 128

somebody | Jul 2, 2014 5:02:16 AM | 127
“Interesting” *kicher*. You could refine your thougths with the latest piece of Brzezinski, Confronting Russian Chauvinism . Russians are chauvinist, holy mackerel! Got to counter it with urban warfare all over Europe! Zbishek managed to get along with one single lie, claiming, russian chauvinism was expansionist, not defensive and isolationist.
But the scope of his “unknown unknowns” is vertiginous, he has not a single clue what is going on in Russia. Same could be true for you, somebody.

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 2 2014 12:26 utc | 129

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 2, 2014 8:26:47 AM | 129
Sorry, it is Putin’s official Foreign Policy Doctrine

In Ukraine, as you may have seen, at threat were our compatriots, Russian people and people of other nationalities, their language, history, culture and legal rights, guaranteed, by the way, by European conventions. When I speak of Russians and Russian-speaking citizens I am referring to those people who consider themselves part of the broad Russian community, they may not necessarily be ethnic Russians, but they consider themselves Russian people.
…
I would like to make it clear to all: this country will continue to actively defend the rights of Russians, our compatriots abroad, using the entire range of available means – from political and economic to operations under international humanitarian law and the right of self-defence.

It is a military doctrine, too.
The Russian answer to the Responsibility to Protect – if you consider yourself Russian.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 13:57 utc | 130

This here is what it is about – I don’t suggest to worry about Russian immigrants to Germany.
Russian population in post Soviet states

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 13:59 utc | 131

somebody
No he merely say that if russians become mistreated Russia will respond, that is according to international law btw.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 14:43 utc | 132

Somebody,
I wonder, why you get that silly. Perhaps you’d like to have a look at the “Concluding Paper “Ukraine: Diagnostics of the National (in)Security” of NATO Liaison Office in Ukraine 2013. You can get it here. Then you may tell the audience more about military doctrines.
And who was and is still taking Russians (alleged “Russians”, self-identifiing Russians and anybody with ties to russian economy, academics, policy) hostage in blackmailing deals between NATO and Russia? Is ist Russia, or the states and countries surrounding her? Who is trying to instigate ethnic cleansing wherever a meaningful Russian population lives?

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 2 2014 15:49 utc | 133

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2, 2014 10:43:39 AM | 132
Yes, it is the Responsibility to Protect, selectively, unilaterally, without UN mandate, just because Russia says so. No criteria, what constitutes “mistreatment”. A high crime rate targeting Russians might qualify.
If this is taken literally, there is a Russian fifth column in Germany – even a German-Russian fifth column – that could justify any act of agression should Russia decide they are mistreated.
– just to show the absurdity of the doctrine, I do not believe this to be Putin’s intention nor to happen.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 16:12 utc | 134

somebody
No I meant that protecting its citizens worldwide is more or less accepted according to international law. Have nothing with “selectivity”.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 16:25 utc | 135

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2, 2014 12:25:54 PM | 135
He did not say so, did he? He said

using the entire range of available means – from political and economic to operations under international humanitarian law and the right of self-defence.

“self-defence” is the universal Orwellian speak for acts of war.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 16:36 utc | 136

@114 noirette quote “Poroshenko stumbled badly at the Crimea part of his speech. I think he did not want to include it but was obliged to put it in.”
that is an interesting observation. thanks for sharing that.. i think porky is in a bad way and will continue on his particular war path, but that it will not be a positive outcome for him, or ukraine. perhaps he realizes he is between a rock and a hard place?

Posted by: james | Jul 2 2014 16:45 utc | 137

somebody
What is it that you dont understand? If Russians anywhere are threatened he said all means are available, which is perfectly ok statement.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 17:20 utc | 138

Some update: new ceasefire?:
http://rt.com/news/170012-lavrov-ukraine-talks-peace/

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 17:43 utc | 139

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2, 2014 1:20:00 PM | 138
Well, Russia does have nuclear weapons ….

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 18:06 utc | 140

somebody
You are saying Russia is going to use its nukes now

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 18:24 utc | 141

I am saying Putin’s foreign policy doctrine is a threat if taken literally and NATO’s policy of poking the bear is criminally adventurous and incompetent.
You can only hope Russians act rational.
Foreign policy should not be founded on hope.
This is Russian defense policy.

In an interview with Izvestia, Patrushev declared that in Russia’s new security doctrine, “We will adjust the preconditions for using nuclear weapons to repulse aggression that employs conventional weapons, and this applies not only to large-scale wars, but also to regional and even local wars.” In addition, Patrushev said the doctrine would include a “provision for possibly employing nuclear weapons depending on the circumstances and the intentions of the probable adversary. In critical national security situations, a pre-emptive nuclear strike against an aggressor cannot be ruled out.”

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 18:56 utc | 142

somebody
Why wouldnt it be taken literally, the quote is nothing special, US have had the same views for decades.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 19:31 utc | 143

I dont get why Russia agree to have osce-team on the bordering land, that dont help the rebels.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 19:43 utc | 144

@Anonymous #144:
I’m pretty sure that that was conditional on the continuation of the so-called cease-fire.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 2 2014 20:05 utc | 145

OSCE just voted a very negative resolution against Russia (@interfax).

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2014 20:30 utc | 146

From Colonel Cassad

Slavyansk today has become completely surrounded. Seen in terms of the current situation, without a deblocking strike from outside, the defeat of Strelkov’s group will be only a matter of time – it will just run out of ammunition, and the city will begin to have serious problems with medicines, food and water.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 2 2014 21:39 utc | 147

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 07/02/2014-22:59
Strelkov:

The opponent, although slower than unticipated, continues to fulfill the had planned goal of encircling “Slavyansk”. Today, the opponent, bolstered by great number of artillery, unsparing shells, and big quantity of tanks, attacked “Nikolayevka”. The fire was directed to the combatant positions as well as residential quarters, and, purposely at the aqueduct, which carries water to “Kramatorsk” and “Slavyansk”. Thus, both cities left without water and, except for wells, may be rivers, other sources for the cities simply do not exist. Such a humanitarian catastrophe, seemingly, fits the framework of fighting “the terrorism”.
Further, the opponent attacked our positions in “Semenovka”. There we fought a fairly heavy battle. Taking into account that the opponent piled hail of shells, we sustained several killed and several wounded – total loss is more than 10 people. In the course, of fight our combatants succeeded to destroy one tank. The combatant who did unfortunately fell (died). Practically, however, the opponent mission was just reconnaissance by way of combat. That is, tomorrow, or even today the battles on this direction will continue.
So far we could hold to “Nikolayevka”, and “Semenovka” as well. In spite, the opponent hails the shells on “Slavyansk” and neighboring “Kramatorsk”, which are both under the fire at this very moment. Altogether, the number of killed and wounded among civilians is difficult for me to say.
We continue to fight, now in full encirclement, and, well, will fight to the end. … Because we clearly understand that behind us Russia. If Russia loses here, this will not be just a defeat of a bunch of combatants. This will be a defeat of Russian people and Russia…

Posted by: Fete | Jul 3 2014 5:00 utc | 148

Ray McGovern just came out with some of the best anglophone, non-Russian analysis of the situation in the former Ukraine that I have seen for some time:
The Risk of a Ukraine Bloodbath

As Ukrainian air and artillery strikes increased on Tuesday, so did diplomatic activity among the Europeans with the U.S. playing no discernible role in the peace efforts. There was no sign, for example, that Secretary of State John Kerry was invited to a hastily called meeting in Berlin on Wednesday involving the foreign ministers of Germany (Frank-Walter Steinmeier), France (Laurent Fabius), Russia (Sergey Lavrov), and newly appointed Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin.
This marginalization of the U.S. is a consequence of a well-founded suspicion that Poroshenko’s fateful decision to “attack” came with Washington’s encouragement. The continued provocative behavior of Secretary Kerry, Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland and other U.S. hardliners comes despite the fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin still holds the high cards in this regional standoff. …
While the focus over recent days has been on Poroshenko’s decision to end the ceasefire and go on the offensive, Putin has continued to rely on diplomacy as his primary tool, especially with European officials fearful of the economic consequences of a full-scale confrontation between Russia and the West. Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov has made considerable headway in getting at least Berlin and Paris to join Moscow in trying to restrain Washington in its apparent eagerness to stoke the fires in Ukraine.
Speaking on Russian TV on Saturday, Lavrov said, “Peace within the warring country [Ukraine] would be more likely if negotiations were left to Russia and Europe,” adding, “Our American colleagues … according to a lot of evidence, still favor pushing the Ukrainian leadership towards the path of confrontation.”
That evidence is increasingly evident to Europeans. What is new is their apparent willingness to slip softly out of their accustomed lockstep subservience to the U.S. in such matters. …
Toward the end of his speech [on French TV last month,] Putin … drew attention to the spread of “radical, neo-Nazi” elements not only in the fledgling states of the former USSR, “but also in Europe as a whole.” He warned that “social contradictions … can be a breeding ground for … the growth of extremism.”
Putin added that even in seemingly stable countries ethnic and social contradictions can suddenly escalate and become ripe for external players “to seek illegitimate, non-democratic regime change, with all the ensuing negative consequences.”
Putin seems to be challenging the Germans and French, in particular, who have had direct experience living under fascism (and who now have their own home-bred fascists to deal with), to decide whether they really wish to acquiesce in the brutal suppression of southeastern Ukrainians with the help of admirers of the late Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera and other Ukrainian fascists who helped Hitler cleanse Ukraine of Jewish and Russian “vermin.”

For some reason, McGovern does not read a recent speech of Putin’s to be making threats, the way one of our resident Russophobes, “somebody”, does. But then, McGovern is a retired CIA officer who specialized in Russia.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3 2014 5:02 utc | 149

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3, 2014 1:02:33 AM | 149
Considering that Marine le Pen supports Putin against the EU and the potential of a German pro-Putin anti-Merkel anti-EU right wing splitting her party, it is a threat. There are no ethics involved. Putin tells Europe to stop funding “democracy”/regime change in ex-Soviet states and Russia, or he will step up funding European dissent. Go through the EU’s Eastern Partnership initiatives and you know what he is talking about
It would be back to the cold war with a different set of ideologies. It already is when a German conservative careerist MP specialising in Foreign Policy cannot be in US and Russian networks at the same time and good relations with both countries are the stated aims of his party.
The US is trying to pressure Europe at the other end. This here is the present Ukraine US ambassador and a former ambassador to Ukraine suggesting Financial Sector sanctions on Russia that would force Europe to comply against their will.
I understand the EU association agreement has been agreed with Russia. – I guess mainly the clauses on security cooperation have been clarified. The EU has a huge interest to make economic cooperation work with the Eurasian Union – the US try to stop that.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 7:22 utc | 150

somebody

, or he will step up funding European dissent.

Haha please, there is no truth in that sentence.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 7:40 utc | 151

Illustration to #151
This here is the German National Democratic party – right wing/fascist fringe
Brief translation: Chancellor Merkel is the wrong person to admonish the Russian Federation on the right of demonstrations for the Russian opposition. We cannot demonstrate in Germany either.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 7:49 utc | 152

somebody
Yes? You said that Putin support anti-eu parties, you are wrong, he havent done that.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 8:08 utc | 153

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 3:40:23 AM | 151
Call it potential regime change blowback.
On the ground, there is stuff like this: Russian Germans, NPD and “Eurasia”
Brief translation: 600.000 Russian Germans live in North-Rhine Westfalia, the majority of them conservative and nationalist. The (German ultra nationalist) NPD leadership decided on cooperation to get their votes – 2.5 million Russian Germans live in the Federal Republic of Germany. Since 2008 there has been a working group for Russian Germans within the NDP.
Aiming for an antisemite-antiamerican German-Russian union, in March 2007 the “German-Russian peace movement” was founded, closely allied with the NPD and with cooperation from Russian Germans against NATO and in favor of close Russian-German cooperation. One of the founders was the old nazi Herbert Schweiger who in the 1940’s had been killing his way through Russia as a member of the Waffen-SS.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 8:31 utc | 154

somebody
Yes? You still dont provde any evidence that Russia actively support these german parties.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 8:59 utc | 155

@somebody #151:

Aiming for an antisemite-antiamerican German-Russian union

Lumping together antisemtism with anti-Americanism (a.k.a people wanting to be freed from oppression by the Empire) is a recent neocon hasbara innovation. Once again, you have shown your true colors.
The Russians have unambiguously shown themselves to be friends of the German people, by withdrawing their forces from the GDR, whereas the USG has unambiguously shown itself to be the main enemy of the German people, since USG did not dismantle NATO after the Soviet Union dissolved. Yet you prefer to be oppressed by the Empire to living as a free person, with Germany and Russia being equal partners, as opposed to what is now the case, with Germany being a colony of the US.
As I said before, in the same way that their American occupiers have brainwashed Germans into not being able to imagine what it is like to be free, since the breakup of the USSR, the Americans have encouraged Ukrainian fascists to impose on Ukrainian citizens the idea that all of the Ukraine’s woes are the fault of Russia.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3 2014 9:07 utc | 156

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 4:59:19 AM | 155
Russia has cloned George Soros and Saudi Arabian private citizens.
This here from Austria as an example.

The Freedom Party (FPÖ) has taken part in a secret meeting with other western European right-wing populists, as well as the leader of the Russian Eurasian movement, according to a Swiss newspaper.
FPÖ leader Heinz-Christian Strache and chairman of the Vienna FPÖ Johann Gudenus are said to have joined the meeting on Saturday at Vienna’s Palais Liechtenstein.
The Tages-Anzeiger reports that the event was hosted by the Russian oligarch Konstantin Malofeew and his foundation Saint Basil the Great. Alexander Dugin, known as the chief ideologue of the Eurasian Movement, is also said to have attended the meeting.

This here is the Foundation of St. Basil the Great

The Saint Basil the Great Charitable Foundation was established in Moscow in 2007. The Foundation runs the following main programs: ‘Heart of a Child’ (surgeries, complex diagnostic examinations and rehabilitation for children with congenital heart defects), ‘Child and Youth Education’ (financing of educational establishments, preparation and publishing of educational literature), ‘Orthodox Church Aid’ (construction, repair and restoration of churches and monasteries), ‘Live, Little Baby!’ (a programme designed to reduce the numbers of abortions in Russia), and ‘Aid for Pushchino Science City’.

Same Malofeev and charity who presumably support Novorussia in Ukraine”.
Of course there is plausible deniability, there always is.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 9:47 utc | 157

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3, 2014 5:07:05 AM | 156
German NPD is clearly antisemite. They try to cover it by saying “we are allowed to critizise jews” – of course it is possible to critize individual acts or acts of groups, to “critizise jews” is stereotyping ie racism.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 10:04 utc | 158

somebody
Are you slow or something?
YOu said:

, or he will step up funding European dissent.

You havent produced 1 single evidence that Putin funding these groups.
Stop spreading anti-russian propaganda.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 10:10 utc | 159

Does Russia really believe kiev will stop its massacres?
Maybe Russia should start with sanctions against ukraine?
http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 10:22 utc | 160

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 6:10:48 AM | 159
A reunion meeting of right wing parties sponsored by a Russian charity is not enough ground to build on?
The following is a threat, no? Like saying, I would hate to see something happening to your nice business?

Putin added that even in seemingly stable countries ethnic and social contradictions can suddenly escalate and become ripe for external players “to seek illegitimate, non-democratic regime change, with all the ensuing negative consequences.”

The invention of gunpowder did not help anybody after everybody knew how to use it. This is the new type of warfare – face it.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 11:00 utc | 161

somebody
Oh christ,

, or he will step up funding European dissent.

Show evidence that “he” (Putin) fund these groups or shut up!
You are refer to a anti-russian article to begin with, stop spreading lies – “face it”.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 11:11 utc | 162

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 7:11:29 AM | 162
step something up

1. to make something more active. I hope we can step the pace of business up in the next few days. We can step up business considerably by putting out a larger sign.

does not mean to do personally. Might be just a phone call.
But I am wondering – why do you assume Russian and US “toolboxes” of state craft, international relations and cold warfare are different? How would you describe that difference?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 11:49 utc | 163

somebody
Haha more craziness, now Putin make secret phone calls. Come on man, this is ridiculous. You have zero proof for your arguments that are similar to mrs psaki’s right now.
I havent said they are different, in fact I dont know how Russia act and obviously you dont know either since you havent given any source for your claims.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 12:33 utc | 164

Somebody,
“But I am wondering – why do you assume Russian and US “toolboxes” of state craft, international relations and cold warfare are different? How would you describe that difference?”
Don’t know, what Anonymus thinks, but on this level of generalization the answer is simple.
Russia fights for the stability of its federation, and for this aim, it has fulfill two corresponding tasks:
1) Strengthening the central power, but
2) Leveling contradiction between the regions, that partly is to be done by giving the regions more of a say.
The US seeks to sabotage both Russian strategies (it wants domination of finance and westernized Petersburg (Moscow) elites) and the overall aim.
So US means and strategies are overall destructive, while Russias ar overall constructive and get destructive mainly in defensive actions against destructive patterns of the West.
Evidently on the ideological level defensive actions often look offensive, see “russian chauvinism”, but this belongs to the surface that changes the core only in the extreme cases – for example in case of open war.
In Ukraine the US instigated, backed, lead and fortifies open warfare against russian interests – and you blame the RF for the results, that are inevitable, as long as the US don’t prevail and destroy the statehood of the RF.

Posted by: TomGard | Jul 3 2014 13:17 utc | 165

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 8:33:30 AM | 164
The internet is your friend.

DUBAI — Arab officials have been briefed in Moscow on the new emerging Russian national security doctrine, which focuses on the global uprisings and revolutions that have affected the Arab world and other regions like Ukraine.
The doctrine holds that the US and its allies are engineering revolutions and uprisings in key areas around the world to destabilize governments and replace existing regimes in order to establish control and exploit natural resources. Furthermore, the doctrine treats the US as a dangerous nation that seeks to dismantle the Russian statehood…
“The Russians are interpreting US interference in countries like Ukraine and across the Middle East like Egypt, Syria, North Africa and even Venezuela as operations to take their natural wealth and convert their population towards a western leaning oversight,” he said.
“The Russians, by announcing this new doctrine in such clear terms, are announcing their intent to counter this activity [of destabilizing governments by popular uprising] by conducting additional research and analysis, ultimately coming out with counter policies,” he said.
Shoygu claims that color revolutions are engineered by information operations troops, special operations forces and private security companies. Those operations, he said, create leadership gaps and chaos…
Officials at the conference were also briefed on how Russia will counter these operations using their own information operations to stabilize governments.
Shoygu said the use of networks and information is paramount in order to counter US and western influences.
This includes arms sales to countries in conflict, alliance building with major military and economic powers, and the creation of an alternative economic system that decouples Russia’s allies from western financial systems.
It was unclear as of presstime how the delegates reacted to Shoygu’s assertions.
Karasik said Russia’s new doctrine will challenge the relationships between the US and Middle East and North African (MENA) states.
“Middle East and North African states will probably be forced to choose which one and only more sophisticated states will be able to balance,” he said. “Overall, Russia seems to hope that the global color revolutions doctrine will sit well with MENA states who blame the USA and the West for the broken states of the region — Syria, Iraq and Egypt,” he said.
Russia has also been noticeably growing close relations with the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries and other Arab states even after the beginning of the Syrian uprising in 2011.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 14:00 utc | 166

somebody 166
Nowhere does it say that Russia found these “anti-eu” groups.
Nowhere does it say anything about Russia using the same tactics as the US.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 14:19 utc | 167

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3, 2014 10:19:07 AM | 167
I am pretty sure Russia did not found these groups, I suspect they cultivate them as they find them useful.
Russia is trying to find ways to counter US tactics. According to the quoted article eg like this

Officials at the conference were also briefed on how Russia will counter these operations using their own information operations to stabilize governments.
Shoygu said the use of networks and information is paramount in order to counter US and western influences.
This includes arms sales to countries in conflict, alliance building with major military and economic powers, and the creation of an alternative economic system that decouples Russia’s allies from western financial systems.

This would have to include countering stuff like this

Global games of regime change describe coordination games of incomplete information in which the status quo- i.e. a currency peg, a bank’s balance sheet, or a political regime, – is abandoned when a sufficient fraction of the population attacks it. So far all previous work has treated the population as an infinite, homogeneous mass of individuals, each with a private noisy signal of the fundamentals, without any regard for the potential patterns of communication that admittedly exist amongst individuals. In this paper I propose an approach to introduce networks of communication within this class of games so as to draw some implications the network topology might impose on the outcomes of the game.

I hear the US tested something on facebook recently.
It is a new type of warfare.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2014 15:32 utc | 168

Strelkov has issued a very pessimistic report:

They will not stop at Slavyansk. On the contrary, as soon as it takes – will attack with a vengeance. Shells they harvested in the months ahead, morale is high (they know its great advantage and see our weakness). They really are going to finish the campaign on 12 July. Completely. That is to go to the border and to smooth out the main towns. Today only the 3rd number. Before 12 February, we just will not last. Do not forget that it is a MILITIA that is fighting. For it the capture by the enemy of Slavyansk will be a heavy moral blow.
Ukry continue to smash Nikolaev TPP. The plant burns. In Nikolaevka under fire “Tornadoes” some of the building destroyed by the Foundation – they just “happened”. The city is surrounded by armored vehicles on the high places, and on any movement “at the bottom” (the town in the valley by the river) opens the destructive fire of artillery.
* * *
“So, there will be several million refugees and “glorious victory” Okraji. Without the direct military support of Russia we will not be able to resist. While there is still hope for Russia’s support the – the militia will fight on. If that hope disappears – it’s all over”.

It does not look like Putin’s diplomatic efforts with France and Germany to get the junta to agree to a new ceasefire will come to anything. Of course, the Americans will make the junta ignore them. In any case, the Uki soldiers have tasted the blood of Russians, and they like it.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3 2014 20:55 utc | 169

Demian
I dont see what Russia is doing now, seems like ukraine have taken the lead and RUssia have no say whatsoever anymore.
Isnt it time for Russia to start sanctions against kiev?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 21:16 utc | 170

@169. Can’t figure this Strelkov guy at all. A most unusual leader. Too honest. Or maybe he just wants to appear weaker than he is.

Posted by: dh | Jul 3 2014 21:18 utc | 171

dh
Or more likely they really need help, dont you think?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2014 21:31 utc | 172

@Anonymous #170:
Part of the Russian game in the Ukraine crisis has always seemed to be getting the German government to see things Russia’s way (i.e, as how they really are). Judging by McGovern’s piece that I linked to above, Putin may have finally succeeded at that, but it doesn’t look like that is going to be of any help to Novorossia.
@dh #171:
Yes, he does seem to go through moods, but I don’t think he’s making up that Slavyansk is surrounded.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3 2014 21:36 utc | 173

I’m sure they do. And I’m sure lots of young Russian soldiers would be happy to help. But as everybody knows if Putin throws his weight behind them he will be condemned for invading a sovereign country.

Posted by: dh | Jul 3 2014 21:39 utc | 174

As I said before, if Putin lets the fascists get away with this, then all his talk about Russian being the main impediment to the US being able to maintain a multipolar world would have been just so much hot air.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 3 2014 22:18 utc | 175

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/politikus.ru/events/23369-ukrainskie-voennye-s-gory-karachun-obstrelyali-i-vzorvali-sobstvennyy-sklad-boepripasov.html Ukrainian military with mountains Karachun attacked and blew up its own magazine
“Received a message from militia, which States that in the night of 3 to 4 July Ukrainian artillery attacked and blew up its own magazine, the blast was very powerful. The assistant of the commander of the militia of the city of Slavyansk and defense Minister Donetsk national Republic Igor strelkov commented on this event: The valiant defenders of korochun all decided to make the planned adjustment of its security zone, accidentally hitting one of its ammunition depots. Illumination is not worse Las Vegas happened.”
The photo with the article is priceless.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4 2014 0:11 utc | 176

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/lifenews.ru/news/135972 The head of the General staff of Ukraine wounded in the fighting in the South-East
“Mikhail Kuzin holds the post of commander of the Armed forces of the neighboring country since February 2014.
The President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko said that the head of the General staff of the Armed forces of the country have received a contusion and a concussion during the hostilities in the South-East. Now he is in the hospital. Oleksandr Turchynov, as acting President of Ukraine, has appointed Michael Cucina commander in chief of the Armed forces of Ukraine on 28 February.
Kuzin was born in the village of Freedom Berehovo district of Transcarpathian region in 1957, but studied in Russia. In 1978 he graduated from the Annunciation higher tank command school. In the Armed forces of Ukraine Mikhail Kuzin is from December 1992.
From 2004 to 2010 he served as commander of the Western operational command of the land forces of Ukraine. Currently, he is the rank of Lieutenant General.
On the third of July during the meeting of the Verkhovna Rada by the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko was appointed as the chief of the General staff of the Armed forces of Ukraine Lieutenant General Victor Murzenko, whose candidature was suggested before.
At the same meeting, the head of Ukraine informed, that will submit to the Parliament for the post of the defense Minister’s candidacy Colonel General Valery Geletey, and will appoint the first Deputy head of the presidential administration on power issues Yuriy Kosyuk.”

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4 2014 0:28 utc | 177

@177 Geletey is a tough talker. He’s going to take Crimea back he says. Must be sure of NATO backing.

Posted by: dh | Jul 4 2014 0:45 utc | 178

The Russians are well aware that (besides the UK), Poland is the Empire Trojan horse in Europe, and that Poland will always betray Europe.
Pravda: Germany digs a whole for its “favorite” Poland

The value of the Weimar triangle of Germany, France and Poland after the failure of the February agreement falls, each pulling in different directions. France on Tuesday took 400 Russian sailors for training on the ship “Mistral”. Moreover, the European heavyweights after the abolition of the armistice begin to understand that the war in Ukraine will drag on, threatening Europe with a second Syria, and the poles are not the people who are going to bring the war to an end.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 0:55 utc | 179

@171 dh.. i think he wants to appear weaker then he is. wikipedia page on him, which may have some bs propaganda to it, but a bit of a window into who this person might be..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

Posted by: james | Jul 4 2014 0:55 utc | 180

@dh #178:
NATO might hate Russia, but it is not crazy like the Ukies are.
(Sorry, above “Germany digs a whole” should be “Germany digs a hole”.)

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 0:59 utc | 181

As someone pointed out at The Saker, Novorussia has the distinct advantage of being right up against Russia, making it easier to evacuate wounded and non-combatants, as well as continuing to supply men and material heading west. Ukrainian bombardment is also having the effect of creating hideouts and sniper nests in territory they will have to hold to win the fight.

Posted by: ruralito | Jul 4 2014 1:35 utc | 182

@james #180:
All Wiki articles on the Ukraine crisis consist of little else than bs propaganda, since they are dominated by Canadian Ukie crazies. It never even occurred to me to see what fantasies they may have written about Strelkov.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 1:53 utc | 183

@183 – any reality to some of the data on that page from your pov demian? thanks.

Posted by: james | Jul 4 2014 1:55 utc | 184

@jaben #183:
What “pov” would that be? I just proceed under the assumption that what is printed in the Russian media is true, but anything said by the Uki government or media is a lie. Do you have problems with this “pov” of mine? (This is not to say that the rebels might sometimes be not quite truthful when it comes to conditions on the battlefield; this is to be expected in all military conflicts.)
All claims about Strelkov that are made by the Uki “government” and “press” that are not confirmed by the rebels can be safely taken to be lies. Glancing through that article, I didn’t find any reports that were attributed to the rebels or to the Russian government, the the only trustworthy sources here. If there’s something in the article that the government of the RF or the rebels confirm, then it can be assumed to be correct, but I just don’t have the stomach to go through those articles any more, so filled are they with blind Yuki hatred of all things Russian.
I actually get most of my Russian language news about the conflict from Novorossiyan blogs nowadays, although I wouldn’t even consider using those as a source at Wiki, since my edits would be instantly attacked by the Banderite Nazis controlling the articles.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 2:25 utc | 185

@Demian 185
The wiki articles typically become more sensible after the payments to the editors cease, i.e. after the conflict ends. A project that would be worth pursuing, but for which I’m too busy, would be to take a typical wiki page during a conflict, and show the massive shift three years later, so as to drive home that the empire does control information sources during ongoing conflicts.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jul 4 2014 2:52 utc | 186

@Johan Meyer #186:
You say that articles become more accurate after a conflict has ended. That’s very interesting. That makes me think that it’s not worth trying to maintain some sanity in the articles on the Ukraine crisis: as far as I’m aware, few people go to Wikipedia to learn about a developing or ongoing story. I certainly don’t but I have edited articles about current events sometimes, in cases which especially unmasked the nature of the Empire.
It may be difficult to ever get the articles on the Ukraine to be mostly accurate, since my impression is that there are enough Ukrainian fanatical ultra-nationalists living in Canada so that it is not necessary for the PTB to pay people to edit the articles so that they are written from the fascist point of view.
By the way, a comment on the Saker pointed out the following article at the Kyiv Post, currently the one most prominently displayed:

Rising Deaths, Fury, Agony
This article is written in the following way: the rebels and residents of southeastern Ukraine say this; the Kiev government says that. But the Kyiv Post is an English language publication intended for Western audiences. It takes a strong pro-junta line, although this particular article in surprisingly “balanced”, to use the Fox News term. I really doubt whether any Ukrainian language media reports the events in Novorossia in this way. I used to make an effort to read articles in Ukrainian, but I am so disgusted by what the Ukraine has become that I can’t stand the sight of Ukrainian any more. (I can still read Ukrainian when Russians write in it to make fun of Ukies, of course.)

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 3:25 utc | 187

demain
on the general comment on fanatic ukee’s in canada – while there is truth to that, suggesting they run wikipedia is a very long stretch of the imagination. of the 37 linked footnotes to the article, many of them imply numerous countries as sources, including russia, ukraine and further away.. none come from canada. one or two from australia and a few bbc, but mostly what look like russian and ukrainian sources.. say want you want about the article, but suggesting it is a bunch of fanatical canuck ukrainians editing the page reminds me of the story of Pinocchio, which i might have to start calling you if you keep it up!

Posted by: james | Jul 4 2014 3:33 utc | 188

@jaben #188:
The Canadian Ukies are the ones who cite the Ukie language sources. I never suggested that they cite any Canadian sources. If you seriously want to look into this, you have to look at who makes the edits, and then see how they describe themselves on their user pages. The most active editor of the Ukrainian articles is such a rabid nationalist (although he describes himself as being Canadian) that he actually wrote his name out in Cyrillic, something which probably no more than 5% of readers of English Wikipedia understand. (He stopped doing that a few weeks ago, since a lot of people started complaining about how biased his edits are.)
I looked through the references, and followed the Russian ones, and none of them supports the idea that Igor Strelkov is a certain Igor Vsevolodovich Girkin, something which the very title of the article claims. (If a source is Ukie, it is no more reliable if it is in the English or the Russian language than it is if it is in the native language of Ukie fascism, Ukrainian.)
I don’t deny that “Strelkov” is an obvious pseudonym. But I seriously doubt that Ukie or American intelligence can figure out what his real identity is, so I doubt even more that his real identity would work its way into the English Wikipedia. I’m almost certain that Russian intelligence knows who he is, since to me, he comes across as a Russian citizen, but I simply don’t have the background for it to be worth my speculating about what Strelkov’s relation to the Russian government might be. I do hope we will live to learn about this one day.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 4:15 utc | 189

@188
Wiki on Igor Girkin: Igor Vsevolodovich Girkin (Russian: Игорь Всеволодович Гиркин), also known as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov (Russian: Игорь Иванович Стрелков), born on 17 December 1970,[1] is a Russian citizen from Moscow[2] who commands the Donbass People’s Militia paramilitary group and is the key figure behind the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine.[3][4] Strelkov was charged by Ukraine authorities with terrorism[5] and is currently sanctioned by the European Union for his leading role in the insurgency in eastern Ukraine.[6] According to Ukrainian and EU authorities, Girkin is a retired Russian military intelligence GRU colonel who has previously participated in the 2014 Crimea crisis.[7][8][6]
Russia Today say: “It also target Ukrainian leaders of the protest movement in the east of the country, including Igor Strelkov, a Ukrainian militia commander in Slavyansk, who Kiev claims is actually a Russian military intelligence officer named Igor Girkin. Kiev failed to provide any proof of the claims, and its previous US-endorsed evidence of alleged Russian military presence in Ukraine proved to be false.”
http://rt.com/news/155620-eu-japan-sanctions-russia/
previous US-endorsed evidence… being key words here

Posted by: crone | Jul 4 2014 4:15 utc | 190

@189 and 190
thanks. i am aware of all this and the fact we have no hard facts.. however, i don’t rule out some of the stories have some validity to them. it is rather difficult get concrete facts in any realm that specializes in secrecy with a direction connection to warfare..

Posted by: james | Jul 4 2014 4:25 utc | 191

Slavyansk. 07/03/2014-21:22
Question: The enemy procures Soviet era aircraft and armored hardware in countries of Eastern Europe.
Strelkov:

Ukrainians have bought about 20 different types Soviet made aircraft in Romania and Hungary. Likewise, Soviet tanks and other armored hardware are being bought. Anyone anticipating “forthcoming disappearance” of enemy aviation, so that the war would end by itself, should be disappointed.

Question: The scenario if Russia would not meddle in.
Strelkov:

Means several million refugees and “glorious victory” of Ukraine. Without direct military aid from Russia we are not able to withstand. As far as hope of Russia support exists, the combatants fight. If this hope fades – that is it.

Question: The combatants are sufficiently equipped by weapons.
Strelkov:

Having we been broken, You will be unpleasantly surprised how much artillery and tanks of the enemy will go farther on.

Russian Spring
Slavyansk. 07/03/2014-18:48
Question: The enemy keeps on wiping out “Nikolayevka .
Strelkov:

Ukrainians press on smashing up the power plant next to “Nikolayevka”. In “Nikolayevka” under fire of “Smerches” (“Tornado” rocket salvo systems), some residential building are flattened – they just “folded in”. The city is surrounded by armored hardware from heights, and if anything moves “below” (the city is in river valley), the artillery opens annihilating fire.

Question: The junta is almost ready to yeld.
Strelkov:

This is dangerous delusion. They will not stop in “Slavyansk”. But quite opposite, gaining the city, their efforts to advance will double. The shells are stashed for months in advance, the combat spirit is high. They indeed plan to wrap up by June 12. Completely. That is, regain control over the border, purge (cleanse) major cities.
Today is only 3rd. It is certain, we will not hold up until 12th. Do not forget, those who fight here are COMBATANTS. For them, the defeat of “Slavyansk” will have grave moral impact.

Posted by: Fete | Jul 4 2014 4:45 utc | 192

Posted by: dh | Jul 3, 2014 8:45:28 PM | 178
And Obama pressured Merkel into repeating that there will be sanctions if Russia does not solve the problem, BNP was made an example not to violate US unilateral sanctions or be punished by the Dollar, Poroshenko decided the Ukrainian constitution should continue to have Ukrainian as sole state language and Breszinski threatened to arm Ukrainians for urban warfare but excluded NATO membership.
It has a strong smell of 1930’s currency, trade and identity wars – we know how Europe and Russia ended up then.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2014 4:45 utc | 193

Posted by: james | Jul 3, 2014 11:33:46 PM | 188
Posted by: james | Jul 4, 2014 12:25:23 AM | 191
Are you defending or excusing the propagandists at wikipedia? 😀 I’ll have to agree with Damian about wikipedia, it’s wasted time looking for info there due to it being completely infested with biased editors who are essentially just writing ad copy and disinformation. Piss on ’em.
—————
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.kp.ru/daily/26251.4/3131140/ Hope BASS, Radio Komsomolskaya Pravda, Daria ASLAMOVA, The correspondent “KP” from Slavyansk: “Complete hell. People want to run”
Daria Aslanova told as exports from the besieged city convoy with wounded children [audio, video ]
In Slavyansk fighting continues between the Ukrainian security forces and militias. On the eve it became known that the national guard under bombed orphanage for preschoolers. From the event on radio Komsomolskaya Pravda passes our correspondent Darya Aslamova.
According to her, currently the city there is no connection, all the roads are cut off. People in Slavyansk waiting for help.
– Dasha, you are now moved in various cities. You were in Slavyansk?
– Yes. Yesterday we went on a humanitarian convoy in Slavyansk.. the So-called “road of life”, because all the roads cut. People need food. And there is no light. We were carrying a generator, because we need at least be included. No communication with any Slavic. And yesterday was cut off last March, there was just a battle. And we seven hours could not be reached, then under the bombing was going to Slavyansk to help. Through some fields… People go through is all because Slavyansk fully lined.
Complete hell. And here from Slavyansk we took yesterday wounded. Already carried at night. People want to escape. Many wounded, many children. We walked column. We had a convoy of four cars, full of wounded children. And now walked through the fields. And still we saw. It was the most terrible moment, probably, in my life, when we tried to slip. Thank God that all slipped. From this strange roads on tracks of the cars raced with a speed of 140. I don’t know how we made it out, but he left.
– You tried to shoot?
– Yes. Of course. They immediately start bombing. Is the mortar shelling. They try to cut all the roads. We found a guide who through the fields we were lucky. And the system such that the machine behind the machine. They see these machines. When the first machine was immediately goes explosion. We must wait. We are waiting for the green stuff, then one by one, trying to slip intervals that were not able to zero in the machines. And that’s the most terrible, because there’s a huge machine stuffed with people. All in the dark. Children cry. Don’t understand what is happening. On tracks of the rushes with great speed, and around the explosions.
– Dasha, occasionally there is a phrase in the phrase “humanitarian disaster”…
– Absolute humanitarian disaster! Yesterday I was lucky. It was a totally peaceful machine. This huge machine, so a perfect target. We were lucky diapers for children, tea, sugar, groats. The generator is the most important for them. Lucky wool, medicines, syringes. There’s nothing there. Elementary. Nothing there!
All fours to the eyeballs. It cannot tracks to go. Three tons. Need to break through. Drivers who go every day in Slavyansk on these roads. The car is absolutely prostrelennoe, on her holes like rats in cheese… As if it’s cheese. The whole machine prostrelennoe. And these drivers who the real heroes, they erupt every day in Slavyansk. Mate-verbal abuse, with vodka… I just shocked.
“Did you hear something, comment on some people? Would you believe it, that the militia and the army national guard of Ukraine will cease to shoot each other and peaceful people?
– In Slavyansk about’ve never heard. They have no communications, no Internet, no water, no electricity. Therefore, all our news to them do not reach. And they really don’t care, because there is a war. But according to the spirit of the people who came there, they are well armed, it really gives hope that Slavyansk will be held. The question is a humanitarian catastrophe. Need to break through the corridors.
Yesterday the last corridor was cut off. How will they? Yesterday they saw us. They and this road has been spotted. The Slavyansk right road.
– You said that was carrying the wounded. The wounded in the city of Slavyansk, Donetsk Hospital… at least has a function? I understand that not everyone can carry.
“I think maybe something and functions. Because it was not the objective. We took people, especially heavy. Was the first ambulance with heavy, and our car was lehtoranta children. Yesterday I saw bombed completely orphanage that was left to guard two completely insane woman. They just went mad from fear.
– What was said Pavel Astakhov, that, indeed, was bombed children’s home – is it true?
– Completely bombed the orphanage. Two women-the governess, they left. You know, maybe, it is ridiculous to someone that might sound, it is important to them – they guard… “And suddenly marauders comes. There the furniture inside honey.” I look at her and realize that people just went crazy! And here it is… And she had nowhere to go. She says, “And I have nobody in the whole world! What am I going to do?”.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4 2014 5:13 utc | 194

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4, 2014 1:13:00 AM | 194
Well, if you only search for information that agrees with you think anyway, you might as well stop looking you already know it all.
Russia comes up with a proposal that makes sense. With some Russian humour.

Lukyanov emphasized in the interview that the USSR was no more.
“Russia is a different state, a participant of international processes and we want to have a say, we have national interests which we intend to defend,” he said.
“This caused the West to overreact, on the verge of hysteria. But you cannot ignore the ‘Russia factor’ in the world,” the official added.
Lukyanov told reporters that all nations should gather and reach an agreement finalizing the Cold War. He suggested that it is done at a global congress of all major players and said that the only existing organization for such task is the UN and its Security Council.
“Otherwise, we will have no rules of the game, no agreements. Violations will happen without concrete obligations, and the world will become less manageable and more chaotic,” he said.
Lukyanov also touched upon the current situation in Ukraine and mentioned that US advisors were actively helping the Kiev regime.
“I am talking about intelligence specialists and people from US power structures. Of course, these people do not limit themselves to advice, they are developing a strategic line that the authorities are following strictly in making their decisions,” he noted.
The official also recalled that Russia also used US advisors during the reforms of the early ’90s and said that the results of this cooperation could be a warning to everyone who decides to repeat it.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2014 5:23 utc | 195

@194 – neither.. keeping an open and curious mind might not be something you are interested in, but some of us are! perhaps you are hoping to be part of a chorus line singing the lines all the time.. oh and don’t forget to cut and paste from the same friggin site on a regular basis.. that requires real mental effort, or else i am sure you wouldn’t be doing it so regularly!

Posted by: james | Jul 4 2014 5:23 utc | 196

Posted by: james | Jul 4, 2014 1:23:15 AM | 196
“keeping an open and curious mind might not be something you are interested in”
Not your wikipedia sort of open mind, that’s for sure. 😀
BTW, I wouldn’t look at the following picture. It’s not wikipedia editor approved.
http://ic1.static.km.ru/sites/default/files/imagecache/640×640/b2ce9516a8ff22f2f200a39447256.jpg

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4 2014 5:41 utc | 197

@james #196:
I have never been so glad that I know Russian as I am now. Just a few years ago, I was thinking that all my knowledge of Russian and Russian culture was basically a waste, since I hadn’t kept up, and wasn’t aware that Russia had bounced back from the Yeltsin years. I was getting my information about Russia from the Western media, so I more or less took for granted that the main thing that happened in Russia under Putin is that it had moved back into its old authoritarian mode, although there were some positive developments, such as order being more or less restored.
I only became interested in following events from a Russian point of view again after the USG overthrew the legal government of the Ukraine using unapologetic fascists, and what was even worse for me, all EU governments said that that was fine and dandy. So, since Russia was the only European government which called that coup what it was, I was forced to come to the conclusion that the only European country which now stands for the values of European civilization is Russia.
So it’s not about being pro-Russian: taking Russia’s side is, in the current European context, the most direct way to be opposed to fascism and the neoliberal rape of the planet.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 5:58 utc | 198

Posted by: somebody | Jul 4, 2014 1:23:10 AM | 195
“you already know it all.”
Sorry, but there is only one know it all allowed per website, and that obviously is you. 😉
————————
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/www.vz.ru/society/2014/7/3/694003.html Forced to leave
“Refugees from Donbas in Russia can get a special status
“If the people under them almost perfect, but we understand that effective humanitarian circumstances difficult for him to return home, he may apply for granting the status of temporary protection, which is given for a year with the possibility of extension. People who have received refugee status or temporary asylum, shall during their stay in Russia to hand over their passports. If a person decides to abandon this status, he returned documents, and he is serving a home. Refugee status allows the person to get in Russia, pension, medical care and educate children in school.”
Hmmm, I wonder if I could convince them I’m a refugee…

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 4 2014 5:59 utc | 199

This is how fascists are created at a young age:
The children of the Ukraine are fascists: A new age of fascism in the world
The video shows a bunch of adolescent girls being taught by their male instructor to make Nazi salutes and chant Banderist slogans. I can’t make anything out of what they shout, other than “Glory be to Ukraine!”
Somehow, I do not think that American Girl Scouts walk in procession shouting, “USA! USA! USA!”. Of course, I could be wrong, but I hope I’m not.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 4 2014 6:51 utc | 200

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