Ukraine: Kerry Urging For “Evidence” Of Russian Involvement

June 5, 2014

Somewhat funny.

April 8 – U.S. and NATO Warn Russia Against Further Intervention in Ukraine

Secretary of State John Kerry accused the Kremlin of fomenting the unrest, calling the protests the work of saboteurs whose machinations were as “ham-handed as they are transparent.” Speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he added: “No one should be fooled — and believe me, no one is fooled — by what could potentially be a contrived pretext for military intervention just as we saw in Crimea. It is clear that Russian special forces and agents have been the catalysts behind the chaos of the last 24 hours.”

Russia (recommended reading)

QUESTION: But, Mr President, the United States and the White House claim they have evidence that Russia intervened in the conflict, sent its troops and supplied weapons. They claim they have proof. Do you believe that?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Proof? Why don’t they show it? "Any evidence?" …

June 5 – Obama, Seeking Unity on Russia, Meets Obstacles

Secretary of State John Kerry also spent time talking with Mr. Poroshenko, privately urging him to provide evidence of Russian involvement with separatists with which to confront Russian officials.

What a lying piece of shit.

Posted by b on June 5, 2014 at 14:48 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Indeed.
I particularly liked this bit of commentary from earlier:
“We’re seeing ridiculous stories to that effect, like one in the New York Timesheadlined “Russians Revealed among Ukraine Fighters.”
No kidding—Russians are among the members of an ethnic-Russian militia in a Russian-majority area of Ukraine, bordering Russia? Scary stuff!”
http://pando.com/2014/05/30/war-nerd-whats-happening-in-eastern-ukraine-is-very-simple-rational-and-straightforward/
Strangely this relatively reasonable piece appeared in the Times:
http://nyti.ms/1ovYsIG
“Any government has the right to assert its writ on its own sovereign territory. But this “anti-terrorist operation” is being conducted in regions where the population was already overwhelmingly opposed to the government in Kiev. A mid-April poll found that over 70 percent of the population in both Donetsk and Lugansk consider that government “illegal.” A separate survey indicated that 80 percent believe it does not represent all of Ukraine.”

Posted by: Oddlots | Jun 5 2014 15:31 utc | 1

This seems part of a campaign for increased sanctions that had mixed results yesterday in Brussels at the G-7 meeting. Russia must be blamed for a legitimate uprising by Donbass citizens. How else to rationalize further sanctions? Also, as the ATO atrocities mount — the junta will attempt to make an example of Slovyansk — they can be dismissed as Russian provocateurs hiding among civilians.
All of this is reminiscent of how Israel treats the Palestinian Authority. But Russian is not the PA, and Putin is not Mahmoud Abbas.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jun 5 2014 15:37 utc | 2

Good post b!
And if you dont believe these leaders today you are called a conspiracy idiot!
Shameful world we live in.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 15:44 utc | 3

Same story in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon,…and the western media mimics his garbage.

Posted by: Amar | Jun 5 2014 15:58 utc | 4

John Kerry is an absolute disgrace to American diplomacy, but what can you expect from a man who gets a facelift before taking his new job? The tightening of all that sagging skin has only succeeded in making him look like the monster he is.

Posted by: Gareth | Jun 5 2014 15:58 utc | 5

thanks b!
the putin interview with radio europe 1 is great.
what kerry says is a direct reflection on the usa and him personally.. relying on others ignorance is a losing approach..

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2014 16:18 utc | 6

I need more explanation of this “dark tactics of the 20th century.”
From the AP reprinted by CNBC(Comcast 1/6 Media Group)
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101730098

Posted by: Jum | Jun 5 2014 16:23 utc | 7

Kerry turns out to be as big a liar and a more discordant shrew than Shrillary.
The “Boys will be Girls” face of Yankee diplomacy?
Betcha we’ll see Kerry stamp his little foot next week…

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 5 2014 16:34 utc | 8

When Obama and Kerry begin wondering what went wrong with the half-baked plots of the world’s 2nd ex-superpower, they need only reflect upon how fervently they believed that ‘encircling’ Russia and China, simultaneously, was a brilliant idea.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 5 2014 16:55 utc | 9

Mild but possibly useful in waking people up:
http://cips.uottawa.ca/media-bias-frames-western-reporting-on-ukraine/

Posted by: Oddlots | Jun 5 2014 17:22 utc | 10

I hate to get sexist and all that, but…
the nest is threatened, so we can pull out the stops in good conscience
it aint called “hysteria” for nothing
mama’s boys, drama queens and adrenaline junkies
.
watch this space for pending operations in bulgaria, now that the ukraine operation has failed to stop south stream

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 17:27 utc | 11

this prominent peak oil lady says we need a matriarchy and intervention from a “higher power” to get out of this pickle
the last time i looked, she hadnt specified what kind of “higher poweer” she had in mind… but if she’s referring to some kind of western-style god, she might be in tjrouble…
…seeing as how her god, after watching the antics of the empire for the last couple hundred years, might decide to intervene on the “wrong” side

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 17:34 utc | 12

flickervertigo
Isnt it stopped? I heard different statements on this.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 17:35 utc | 13

“Isnt it stopped?

the south stream?
Bulgaria seems to be defying the EU –European commission– Serbia, hungary and Austria seem to be in favor of the pipeline, those elections in the EU point to common people coming to their senses about geology, geography, economics and energy
.
well, I guess we could start another big war in Europe –Europe vs Russia– to stop south stream
that’d be good, wrecking two potential centers of resistance to neocons’ global hegemony…
…nevermind the “benevolence”

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 17:41 utc | 14

flickervertigo
Yes southstream you said west failed to stop the project.
Latetly I have heard different statements on this, is there any new statements that you refer to regarding this failure to stop it?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 17:47 utc | 15

bulgaria seems to be occupied by the US… so maybe the combined military and political pressure will change bulgaria’s mind…
too soon to telll… but it all –the elections, geology, geography, economics, europe’s need for energy– it all bodes ill for the neocon project
here’s a map… kinda helps you to see the layout
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img842/8264/fimw7.jpg

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 17:50 utc | 16

“any new statements that you refer to regarding this failure to stop it?”

all i’m doing is google news, searching: south stream pipeline

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 17:53 utc | 17

It is clear the EU is trying to stop it (being in NATO’s pocket), but the countries concerned have not accepted that so far. The day before yesterday (June 4) the Austrian Presse reported that Serbia is planning to start construction in July.
http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/energie/3816316/Serbien-baut-South-Stream-im-Juli?_vl_backlink=/home/wirtschaft/energie/index.do

Posted by: Austrian | Jun 5 2014 18:02 utc | 18

i dont know what to think about biden’s son becoming a director on the board of ukraine’s biggest private gas producer…
that company ought to do pretty good if russia is successful in cutting ukraine out of the gas distribution pattern, which is the object of south stream –bypass neocon trouble
biden’s a neocon, a PNAC signatory… and now biden’s son is in position to make big bucks if russia bypasses ukraine
could that be a sign that the neocons have given up on stopping south stream for the time being?
who knows

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 18:04 utc | 19

This is awkward:
Secret tape of obama’s weight training in poland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExQcrf80OSI
obama having problem lifting light dumbells haha?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 18:14 utc | 20

well, yeah
the biggest dumbell obama tried to lift in poland was radek sikorski
poland is the great white hope of europe
oh yeah

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 18:20 utc | 21

poland rejects russia’s plans to expand the yamal gas pipeline through poland, so the plakistanians leave pipeline transit money on the table
so russia may expand nord stream from two string to four
depends, i guess on whether anybody paid any attention at all to the european elections

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 18:34 utc | 22

The Bulgarian president would like Bulgaria to be occupied by US troops. He is good bootlicker, must be part Polish. His desire is shared by few, and most of those few are funded by western NGOs such as Open Society. The rest are just brainwashed souls lost in the depths of the unrelenting neoliberal/neocon propaganda. The fact though is that most political parties that matter are controlled by former communist party hacks and funded by former communist oligarchs. These have many Russian ties and by extension Russian interests coincide with their own business interests. The South Stream has graft opportunities aplenty so the Bulgarian PTB will not he easily dissuaded from dropping the project. The problem comes from the punitive sanctions the Eurocrats will impose, those hurt the interests of the BG elites. They will play for time, letting Ukraine blow over and the Eurocrats calm down before proceeding with the pipeline.

Posted by: OIFVet | Jun 5 2014 18:51 utc | 23

Yes, the American Government and Corporate Media are lying. Lately the news is getting hysterical.
Corporate media cannot talk about the Nazi Coup in Kiev, the Right Sector rampage through Eastern Ukraine, or the likelihood of nuclear holocaust if NATO and Russia get in a shooting war. Instead, the reporting has been about Veterans dying because they could not get appointments and lately the return of the only prisoner of war from Afghanistan. Politicians of both parties said he should have been left there.
Nobody is saying how crazy this is. No sane persons would join the military now with a European War threatening and the contempt the Elite hold for soldiers. The only people who will fight for the flailing American Empire are Nazis and Jihadists who will in the end turn around and happy kill any Americans left they run across.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Jun 5 2014 18:52 utc | 24

for updates on South Stream and other gas info.
http://www.naturalgaseurope.com/

Posted by: Paul | Jun 5 2014 19:00 utc | 25

i guess the will of the people has nothing to do with anything… all we got to do is preserve the illusion of democracy so we can blame the people for the inevitable shit sandwich
“hey! …you’re to blame for this mess! …you voted for these clowns!”

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:01 utc | 26

@1: The paragraph about the opinion of the people in Donetsk about the legitimacy of the current government in Kiev is a mistranslation. Per Yandex:

If, after ten years, fugitive ex-President Viktor Yanukovych decided to return to Ukraine (as hinted remaining in the country of his fiduciaries), the honourable prisoner of Rostov-on-don, Russia would have to follow the advice Kuchma. 70% of the adult population of the South-East does not consider Viktor Yanukovych as the legitimate President of Ukraine. There is not a single region, where the belief in the illegitimacy of the ex-guarantor would be less than half. The nature of exclusion of Yanukovych in some regions may be different. Most likely at the Donbass he never forgive betrayal. In other areas – the suppression of the local elites Donetsk personnel; collection of business; costs “looking”; loose the power of the security forces; and also because of betrayal. But if Donbass “father” gave his escape, the other, in the past loyal to it – with all of his presidency.
Only every fifth inhabitant of the eight areas sees in Yanukovych’s legitimate President. And then, this figure is so high for the reason that in Donetsk region in him still see the guarantor 32,4%, and in Lugansk to 27.6%. So, if Viktor Yanukovych decides to return, as claimed, “on the bayonets of the Russian army”, the bunker even in Donbass must be underground. But… according to experts psychology of the mining region, if Yanukovych will take hall and the hat before countrymen – many can and forgive: it’s better this helmsman than any

Posted by: g_h | Jun 5 2014 19:06 utc | 27

i guess the will of the people has nothing to do with anything… all we got to do is preserve the illusion of democracy so we can blame the people for the inevitable shit sandwich
Has it ever been otherwise?

Posted by: OIFVet | Jun 5 2014 19:07 utc | 28

Hoarsewhisper #9 that’s beautiful, I might even repost that an other sites, with attribution of course. Anyways, two good pieces concerning the real ham-handed hypocritices and the double standards of US foreign policy
http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-backs-state-terror-against-eastern-ukraine/5385668?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=obama-backs-state-terror-against-eastern-ukraine
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-vs-syria-the-only-standards-are-double-standards/5385719
It absolutely drives me crazy hearing Obama and Kerry lecture the world about human rights and democracy and foreign intervention and on and on you all know the drill, while the distance between their actions and their words can only be measured in light years. Many, many, many light years.

Posted by: Colinjames | Jun 5 2014 19:08 utc | 29

“otherwise”
what we’ve got to be on our guard about is the creeping realization that we’re all in this pickle together
maybe the global nervous system is being rewired… that’s dangerous to the people who are stuck in obsolet tribal philodophies

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:12 utc | 30

“No Returning to G8: Russia” !!!
The lil’ g’s are no longer relevant!! Bring in the developing countries…
http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/no-returning-to-g8-russia/

Posted by: Rd. | Jun 5 2014 19:13 utc | 31

i took years and years of spanish in high school and college
in my last class, we had to read cervantes in the original medieval spanish… completely useless if you’re ordering ia beer in a tijuana bar
but the light came on, and cevantes was a miracle
maybe if enough people learn english, we can realize how alike we are, all of us

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:21 utc | 32

New RT Crosstalk with exaclty this issue (lying western media)
http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/163488-orwellian-jen-psaki-media/

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 19:21 utc | 33

from saker’s – “National guard/right sector entered Railroad Hospital Krasni Liman and shot dead 37 wounded Donbas Army soldiers and civilians and at least 1 hospital worker. Confirmed.”
isn’t going into a hospital and doing this a war crime?

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2014 19:23 utc | 34

Ok this is getting ridiculous, new threat against Russia. Note how they talk to Russia, not only lying but talking to it like its a 3-yr old child.
Obama, Cameron give Putin a month to meet Ukraine conditions, or face further sanctions
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.597235

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 19:27 utc | 35

the big question, to me, is, how desperate are the neocons and imperialists?
are they hysterically, suicidally desperate?
if they are, then it’s gonna be bad
.
are they capable of listening to reason, or are they terminally sick?

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:38 utc | 36

flickervertigo
These people are sick, they are brainwashed by their own lies.
Yes this might end very bad, I thought west would grow up by now, how dumb of me.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 19:41 utc | 37

we wont know until the nukes start flying
then it will be too late

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:43 utc | 38

I’m hoping that this “nuclear primacy” “first strike” Russia china business is a bluff
cover for the looters
we can handle looters
a global nuke war?

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:46 utc | 39

the racial supremacists cite their accomplishments as evidence of their racial superiority…they twist darwin to justify their actions
but it’s their “accomplisments” that got them into this pickle
clever people, but not very wise

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:53 utc | 40

i mean, when you yap about darwin’s “survival of the fittest”, maybe the fittest humans are those that can get along with other humans

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 19:57 utc | 41

OT:
Why, lookee what we have here!!!
ECB imposes NEGATIVE INTEREST rates!!!

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 5 2014 20:02 utc | 42

Kerry is shameless. Remember how eager he was to fabricate an excuse to bomb Syria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4c4YuAUByw&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dT2wtgz9sahhHa2lF1YsPiq

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Jun 5 2014 20:20 utc | 43

ukraine’s government site report that the “leader” (or something similar, not sure about translation) of poroshenko’s election campaign have been killed today.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 20:34 utc | 44

it’s handout day here at the old folks’ home/”community action agency”… people park their nice cars outside the window, go in empty -handed and come out with boxes of food
they leave their car windows cracked and their little dogs yip and yap hysterically
i shouldnt complain… it’s just people taking care of people

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 20:35 utc | 45

I have his evidence right here.
From Dima In East Ukraine

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 5 2014 20:39 utc | 46

@ #46:

airstrike was putin. not ukraine jets. russian missiles. blame Київ.

That’s your “evidence”? Pathetic.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 5 2014 21:05 utc | 47

Obama said they have evidence that Russia intervened in the conflict and supplies weapons. Whereas the US [fuck the EU, Nuland] spent 5 Billion dollars interfering in the conflict and Obama has just promised Poroshenka 5 million dollars for military equipment. You could not make this shit up.

Posted by: harry law | Jun 5 2014 21:07 utc | 48

“No idea” why Psaki disappeared – Churkin

“Russia’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin said he did not know what happened to Jennifer Psaki, the spokesperson for the US Department of State.
Earlier on Thursday a number of Russian media outlets reported that Psaki, who recently made a number of rather controversial statements, resigned from her post.
Despite that, Churkin said that he hoped that Psaki “will show up again.” “I’ve always enjoyed listening to her talk,” he remarked.

One can always hope…

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 5 2014 21:20 utc | 49

gooogle news earch: Yatsenyuk block south stream pipeline
google seach: nuland “yats is the guy”

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 21:21 utc | 50

we dont like to talk about impending energy shortages, do we?
much nicer–less threatenuing– to get bogged down in details of imperial shitheadedness
sooner or later, though, you got to wonder what caused the imperial shitheadedness in the first place

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 21:27 utc | 51

energy export browser
http://mazamascience.com/OilExport/

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 21:34 utc | 52

Obama: Scotland should stay in UK
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/05/barack-obama-suggests-scotland-should-stay-uk-independence?CMP=twt_gu
Obama, you should have stayed in kindergarden.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5 2014 21:39 utc | 53

oh my goodness… it’s falling apart
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
.
if the “higher power” intervenses, whose side will it be on?

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 21:45 utc | 54

@49
Can we call this “the reverse Liz Wahl” Can we please?

Posted by: Oddlots | Jun 5 2014 21:49 utc | 55

it gets tiresome unless you drink… if you drink, it gets comical…
…unless you drink too much
because hangovers are nurder

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 21:55 utc | 56

that poem above is yeats
…written in 1919 or so
after the balfour declaration
.
that’s the problem with poets and songwriters
sometimes they don’t know what they’re talking aobut

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5 2014 22:06 utc | 57

Awesome interview;I applauded at least twelve times.(But I never once rose off my stool,shouting heil!)Kidding aside.he is awesome.Seriously.Now where’s our American version?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 5 2014 22:50 utc | 58

Great Pepe Escobar article a Must Read, where he documents the rise of US/EU doing ‘Stupid S**t’ all the time: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38695.htm
Snippet:
“Don’t expect logic in what I called a few weeks ago, before the rise of stupid s**t, the Obama administration’s juvenile delinquent school of diplomacy; I don’t like you, I don’t wanna talk to you, I want you to die.
The counterpart to stupid s**t has been The Emperor ordering his European vassals to get their act together, stop with this silly talk of economic crisis, and shell out way more cash for their NATO protection. If that feels like coming straight from the playbook of Scorsese’s “Goodfellas,” that’s because it is. Only nervous poodle Poland and some other Eastern Europeans – and none of the top EU nations – devote at least 2 percent of their GNP to defense. Washington is acridly demanding an increased pound of flesh – and gold.
And right on cue, NATO’s outgoing secretary-general, the vain, vapid Dane Anders “Fogh of War” Rasmussen, praised The Emperor’s wisdom.
By the way, it’s never enough to remember that all-powerful NATO has had its collective behind royally kicked in Afghanistan by the Kalashnikov-armed descendants of generations of true mountain (and desert) warriors.”

Posted by: oldskeptic | Jun 5 2014 23:23 utc | 59

Western fascists invade Russian air space.
In CRH Kuibyshev district delivered Ukrainians, wounded in airstrike on a checkpoint

“Aviation national guard intruded in air space of Russia
Today, June 5, in the Central district hospital of the Kuibyshev district of the Rostov region the doctors ferried the injured citizens of Ukraine, who were found in the border village Repicheva. About it donnews.ru told the head of the Kuibyshev district Alexander Krivorotov.
– The wounded several people. To the morgue and delivered one corpse. Who are these people, I am safe to say not undertake. I will assume that these wounded employees of Ukrainian border crossing point, which today bombed Ukrainian aviation. However, now it does not even matter who they are, the main thing is to save people, said Krivorotov.
How occurred RAID, watched the inhabitants of Kujbyshevo.
– We clearly saw how the aircraft bombed item. Once it hits there was white smoke, then black was overcast. And more importantly: the aircraft flew in area of Russia, it’s for another entry point unfolded over our fields. Why is nobody on our side did not respond, it is not clear, – noted Alexander Krivorotov.
Half an hour after the fire the head sent to the farm Raykovtsy between two old posts, ambulances and the police. There they found the wounded Ukrainians.
In CRH of the condition of the wounded commented sparingly: “go”operation. It is known that one of the men seriously hurt.
Alexey Novikov”

Original in Russian:
В ЦРБ Куйбышевского района доставлены украинцы, раненые при авианалёте на пункт пропуска

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 5 2014 23:26 utc | 60

@59
Information Clearing House does NOT provide original content. The article you linked was originally posted at rt.com . ICH does provide attribution, (sometimes) although in a subtle manner. Please link only to the original article and let the clicks accumulate where they should and readers are aware of the source of information being ingested.
Thanks.

Posted by: b4real | Jun 5 2014 23:39 utc | 61

Great catch on Kerry

Posted by: Valtin | Jun 5 2014 23:39 utc | 62

More MoA censorship.
I posted an article about a Ukrainian aircraft crossing into Russian air space while it attacked a Ukrainian border post and it disappeared. I removed the links and tried again, it still disappeared.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 5 2014 23:43 utc | 63

http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/rusvesna.su/news/1402006192
“In the evening of 5 June, the air force of Ukraine violated the air border of the Russian Federation.”

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 5 2014 23:45 utc | 64

Above is a translated link to a mirror of the same article posted at Russian Spring.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 5 2014 23:48 utc | 65

Oh b4real, don’t be hard on Tom at ICH, he does a great job pulling stuff together.
He only lives off donations, does no advertising, no $ for click through.
He is a good guy and does good work.
I’ve never had any problem going to the original sources, but because he is so good at pulling sources together I often use him (and know he makes no money from it) as a link for others to read.
Also I suppose I am trying to encourage people to check out his site, he often picks up stuff from all sorts of obscure places that would often never see the light of day.
So give him a break and don’t lump him in with those other sites that are the way you describe.

Posted by: oldskeptic | Jun 5 2014 23:54 utc | 66

tje [point of b4real’s post is that the piece originally appeared in rt
that’s supposed to be a black mark
too bad rt is a more reliable souce of information than the imperial media

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 6 2014 0:01 utc | 67

I’ll just add: Pepe Escobar’s (in particular) stuff appear all over the place.
That was a RT piece. A lot, but not all appears in Asia Times, then there is his stuff for TomDispatch and so on.
So it can be difficult to track all his articles. Tom at ICH does that really well.
I don’t have the time to track all Pepe’s stuff, let alone others like him.
So I think it is fair to credit Tom for doing that and that’s where good aggregator sites like ICH really do add value.

Posted by: oldskeptic | Jun 6 2014 0:08 utc | 68

the problem is, russia occupies what little remains of the moral high ground
they’re trying to rehab their county after decades of soviet dark ages, and they’re using the oil and gas money to do that
that became a problem when russia repossessed russian energy and media from russian neocons, seeing as how neocons must control russia if they’re to establish their global hegemony
.
NATO did that big expansion after russia purged the neocon russians… here’s that map again… pay attention to the dates of NATO expansion, keeping in mind that russia had finished purging the neocons by 2004
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img842/8264/fimw7.jpg

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 6 2014 0:15 utc | 69

what it boils down to, is… if russia occupies the moral high ground, it can afford to tell more truth than the empire can
the empire is locked into lies… not only by necessity, but by philosophy
the empire is simply too chickenshit to survive

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 6 2014 0:21 utc | 70

Kerry and Hillary, the two failed candidates to the US presidency have shown that the Americans were wise not to elect them: They made a shams of the US foreign policy, and Obama is getting the blame.
Yes, he should get the blame. He should have avoided to give to these two morons the consolation award of secretary of State.
Hillary and Kerry are finished, the only thing left to them is facial surgery and memoirs.

Posted by: virgile | Jun 6 2014 0:51 utc | 71

you got to wonder sometimes… is it stupidity or arrogance or some unconscious compulsion towards self-destruction?
they attempt to glorify pussy riot… after pussy riot hijacks a big church in russia
meanwhile, the US deathwish christians are supposed to be great suporters of the neocons
so how do you explain the glory of pussy riot to US deathwish christians?

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 6 2014 0:58 utc | 72

we got these political commissars and game theorists and think tanks and imperial media
it looks like this pussy riot kind of stuff –the lies, the false flags, the utter chickenshitedness– seeps into the mass consciousness no matter what
and that’s why the bedrock belief is “might makes right”
it doesnt matter what people think as long as you are mighty enough to make them pay their taxes
it’s getting tiresome again, and i’m out of beer
g’night, all

Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 6 2014 1:09 utc | 73

“they’re trying to rehab their county after decades of soviet dark ages”
I’m sure we’re on the same page more or less, and I do hate to start a fight, but this is total bullshit.
The Soviet Union could have pulled out of their troubles if Yeltsin didn’t dismantle a great country. The Russians aren’t rehabbing from “soviet dark ages”, they’re rehabbing from the first (and possibly one of the worst) neo-liberal muggings in history (delivered by Rubin and Summers, with that drunken bum Yeltsin puking on himself in the corner).
The “soviet dark ages” – its awfully hard to imagine what the alternative was: the progressive forward-looking era of czardom or the neo-liberal social nightmare? Let’s not forget that Putin – who everyone is mighty impressed with for good reason – is a product of the Soviet system.
Gorbachev didn’t even have the balls to stand up to Yeltsin – Yeltsin literally punked him by taking the mic in front of the Supreme Soviet (or some other political meeting, I forget which, but certainly he deserved the fabled Gulag for that, no?… so much for the secret police state in which no one dares speak!) but if he had them, likely the Union would have survived and been in far better shape if it didn’t go through the dismembering, decay, and social collapse that neo-liberal free market “shock therapy” brought to it.

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 6 2014 1:11 utc | 74

no one is censoring you scalawag. this is a known issue since I’ve ever been here – a few years at this point. Happens to everyone, even yours truly. It will eventually appear – it has nothing to do with links either.
The only thing that seems to work is to wait an hour and try again, it definitely detects flooding of similar posts.
http://everything.typepad.com/blog/2013/05/combating-comment-spam-an-update.html

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 6 2014 1:14 utc | 75

I know some hate the Twitter posts, but this is from the leader of the Russian Communist Party.
Gennady Zyuganov @ G_Zyuganov · Jun 2
To protect compatriots in Ukraine from liberal fascism # Russia should recognize de facto # DNR and # LC http://kprf.ru/party-live/cknews/131873.html

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 6 2014 1:53 utc | 76

#68 flickervertigo Thanks for reposting that map. This time I studied it. You’re right, we tend not to mention, or reason in terms of, the energy supply that lies at the root of every war and movement of soldiers since oil was discovered. (and I enjoyed your stream of posts)
and #73 guest77 agreed for sure – a big story of tragic proportions there. I suspect it was careless words on flicker’s part, fwiw.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 6 2014 2:04 utc | 77

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 5, 2014 9:14:51 PM | 74
The post disappearance has happened to me several times. Sometimes they show up 24 hours later, sometimes never at all. A couple of days ago, the previous time it happened, the post never did show up. It had a link to the Vineyard of the Saker blog. Today it happened around 7:30 MoA time, between “oldskeptic #59” and “b4real #60”. After I noticed it didn’t stick, I posted #62, #63 & #64 in quick succession, and they all stuck. Something in the original post, with the original Russian site linked, got flagged by MoA.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 6 2014 2:14 utc | 78

They also have a plan for Right Sektor financier Kolomoisky:

Proceedings: The Communists want to liquidate the entire business in Russia Igor Kolomoisky
MPs demand to liquidate the enterprise Ukrainian oligarch who financed the activities of extremists “right sector.”
Communists intend to liquidate the Russian business Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky, which finances militant extremist organization “Right sector.” First deputy chairman of the Duma Committee on Nationalities Valery Rashkin and deputy chairman of the Duma Committee on Public Associations and Religious Organizations Sergei Obukhov appealed to the Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika requested to identify all organizations, departments, branches and representative offices on the territory of our country, which are controlled by Igor Kolomoisky and submit to the appropriate jurisdiction for the immediate declaration prohibiting their activities and subsequent liquidation (text of the letter is at the disposal of “Izvestia”).

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 6 2014 2:32 utc | 79

Russian Spring
Slavyansk.
Strelkov:

Manifold suffered “Semenovka” is in the midst of battle again. The opponents are attacking by tanks and motorized infantry. So far, we manage to repeal. One tank shot withdrew on its own… indestructible Soviet equipment. Unless by anti-tank cannon, knocking off is not easy. Possess none of those…
The fight is in area of “Pit-field” – our (from “Slavyansk” garrison) combatants are preemptively attacking a column poised for assault. The opponent has suffered significantly. Damaged by fire arms and emergency landed a helicopter Mi-8. So far, holding position there as well.
Welcoming re-enforcement from Donetsk/Lugansk or other “frontiers” appears not viable.
Apparently busy filming drills with rockets and cannon-guns. To rise spirits, so to say.

Russian”>http://rusvesna.su/news/1401966710/”>Russian Spring
Slavyansk.
Question: Recent commentaries suggest Ukrainian military is reading to blow bridges.
S
trelkov:

They are reading for many things. Today, the howitzers pounded a power plant in “Nikolaevka”. If succeed, the North of Donetsk and a part of Lugansk will blackout. In spite that no single combatant on that territory.

Question: A storage of ordnance in “Slavyansk” was destroyed.
Strelkov:

Not true.

Question: Volunteer-Israelis from battalion “Alia” have arrived.
Strelkov:

Have seen no one. Neither Chechens.

Question: “Grad” (rockets) fired at “Semenovka”.
Strelkov:

Indeed, “Grad” rockets were used on June 3. But one rocket after another. Salvos were not fired…
Retaining positions on the city boundaries, the Ukrainian army transfers troops elsewhere. Where, is not known…
“Slavyansk” is calm, just no water. Ukrainian military damaged waterlines where we can not reach. Water distribution and sewage are out of commission. Deliver in barrels. Attempts by a repair crew to fix were thwarted by the military…

Posted by: Fete | Jun 6 2014 3:25 utc | 80

i guess the will of the people has nothing to do with anything… all we got to do is preserve the illusion of democracy so we can blame the people for the inevitable shit sandwich
Posted by: flickervertigo | Jun 5, 2014 3:01:33 PM | 26
… which drives a big wooden stake through the politically-correct theory that Obama called off the plan to bomb Syria back to the Stone Age because of Public Opinion – and nothing whatsoever to do with Russia blasting Obama’s cruise missiles out of the sky on September 3, 2013 …. from Russia.
BTW, what have Kerry & Obama done with that ‘table’ they used to keep their military option on (since Sept 3)?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 6 2014 3:25 utc | 81

@42 jsore – thanks for the link on the negative interest rates.. wow! getting penalized for saving is the nature of the ponzi scheme isn’t it? now it is just more out in the open..
@59 oldskeptic – thanks for the link to pepe’s latest..

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2014 3:52 utc | 82

Guest77 is correct, FlickerVertigo
Here’s more real world gov cuts/austerity by the IMF rightwing policies in Ukraine in 2004 from University of Ottawa, Canada’s Russian Studies PhD Professor Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/imf-sponsored-democracy-in-the-ukraine-2/5360920
&
& more details including coup-led Svoboda & fascist parties implementing it http://www.globalresearch.ca/regime-change-in-ukraine-and-the-imfs-bitter-economic-medicine/5374877
“The price of bread increased overnight by 300 percent,
electricity prices by 600 percent,
public transportation by 900 percent.
the standard of living tumbled
According to the Ukrainian State Statistics Committee, quoted by the IMF, real wages in 1998 had fallen by more than 75 percent in relation to their 1991 level.( http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2003/cr03174.pdf )
By 1998, the deregulation of the grain market had resulted in a decline in the production of grain by 45 percent in relation to its 1986-90 level. The collapse in livestock production, poultry and dairy products was even more dramatic.
(See http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2003/cr03174.pdf )
The cumulative decline in GDP resulting from the IMF sponsored reforms was in excess of 60 percent (from 1992 to 1995).”
==
Austerity & cuts in gov spending as advocated by IMF & Western powers (ie Austrians (and rightwing) in 1990s-2000s Bulgaria, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, Ukraine, Greece, Italy, Poland resulted in
unemployment increasing to 14% to 25%
(dropping
only because of mass emigration of millions of unemployed people leaving the country, population dropping from 9 million to 7 million) (though Poland was ‘saved’ in that it got $150 BILLION in foreign aid from EU)
25% to 60% drops in production of food & goods, resulting in massive inflation of 600% to 1600%,
GDP drops in 15% to 25%,
poverty rates increasing by 1000%
, poverty rate as high as 80% in Georgia,
in the 1990s to 2000s –see links below for verifiable empirical data/evidence
and
in the US
50% poverty rates in New York in the 1900s-30s until FDR came along with increases in gov spending social programs
Before FDR, gov spending was under 3% to 7% of GDP & unemployment increased to almost 25%.. under FDR, gov spending went up 10%
&
dropped unemployment rate to 9% (or 14% if not counting gov job works program as employed as the BLS did)
..
unemployment rate dropped to about 1% under the 30%-40% gov spending of WW2.
Ever since WW2, US gov spending has thus always remained at abot 18% to 25%+ –ie, to keep unemployment rate lower than Great Depression, gov spending has always stayed at almost double Great Depression levels.
Evidence/empirical
data from charts at bottom page by Economics PhD UCSanta Cruz Steve Kangas, former Republican & Air Force captain, military intelligence analyst http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm
===
More details & empirical data/evidence on the worst effects of austerity:
disaster in Bulgaria http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnstarikov.ru%2Fclub%2F37677&edit-text=
disaster in Baltics Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fivolin.ru%2Frabstvo-21-veka-pochemu-pribalty-stali-evrotadzhikami&edit-text=
More disaster Baltics http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnnm.me%2Fblogs%2Fscheissenman46%2Fpochemu-pribalty-stali-anglotadzhikami%2F
How & why austerity damages a country http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fivolin.ru%2Fwhy-not-be-a-liberal-patriot-2&edit-text=&act=url

Posted by: www.MythFighter.com | Jun 6 2014 4:17 utc | 83

The Soviet Union had a violent crime/murder rate that was HALF of the US because it had low wealth disparity/inequality until after 1991 when USSR adopted capitalism –but
instead of Social Democray like Gorbachev wanted, his political enemy corrupt kleptocrat Boris Yeltsin won
&
adopted ‘rightwing’ Shock Doctrine Republican Milton Friedman-style economics as impelemented in Chile of mass cuts in gov spending, austerity, & mass privatization which resulted in disaster of 25%-60% drops in production & GDP, 1600% inflation, & 1000% increase in poverty )
1) Soviet Union gov hired almost everyone, having about a 1% unemployment rate
2) Salaries varied by profession/skill & experience but most salaries were within about 68% of the national average so not many poor but not many rich.
The salary was high enough for my Ukrainiani wife’s engineer dad(who worked on Soviet Union/Russia’s space program)
to
own a 4-bedroom suburban house in Kharkov,Ukraine & own his own car while the mom(who had a degree in engineering) could afford to stay home to take care of the kids.
3) Because Soviet Union & China were on a gold-standard & no commercial banking industry, the money supply was tightly controlled (no loans/money creation to consumers/businesses to spur investment nor demand, which was why it was slow growth/stagnant
&
the only bank gave only tight loans to state-enterprises), there was almost 0% inflation. You could buy ice cream or bottle of soda for 5 cents in 1980s.
4) It had a generous welfare system for the elderly or disabled or those unable to work -there was no unemployment insurance since almost everyone was hired by gov /gov work programs
5) There was much gov spending (and hiring) on infrastructure maintenence (almost no graffiti, good landscaping, etc
6) After 1991 when the Soviet Union disbanded & adopted the West’s rightwing monetarist polices of massive cuts in gov spending, mass privatization with millions of workers(including police) laid off, 25%-60% drops in production & massive inflation,
violent crime rates skyrocketed into having one of the highest in the world as
the power vacuum vacated by the gov allowed Mafiaso’s/oligarchs & organized crime to move in (until Putin came to power & reversed them -he is considered Russia’s FDR, which is why according to independent pollsters, he has a 75%-80% approval rating for decade)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_Soviet_Union
for more details from former officer(Major) NATO military intelligence officer/analyst who worked with the Pentagon as well as Russian hi-command in Moscow living in Russia for 15 years http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/search?q=russia+ukraine

Posted by: www.MythFighter.com | Jun 6 2014 4:18 utc | 84

USA spoke against investigate the actions of the security forces in the East of Ukraine

“The American authorities refused to support the calls of inquiry into the actions of the Ukrainian military in the Eastern regions of the country. It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the statement by the representative of US state Department Marie Harf.
“We have no credible evidence confirming reports of human rights violations by the Ukrainian government,” said Harf. It also stated that it was unacceptable conduct moral Parallels between the actions of the military and militias. At that, first she called defenders of their people and territory, and the second – “separatists, supported by another government” and havoc. “These are not equivalent, and trying to call them means to interpret the situation fundamentally wrong,” – said the representative of the state Department.
Some time ago the head of Russian foreign Ministry Sergei Lavrov has stated that punitive operation in the East of Ukraine “has gone beyond all limits”. He put a special emphasis on the fact that the victims of the air raids and artillery increasingly becoming a peaceful people.
The Commissioner of the foreign Ministry of Russia on the issues of human rights Konstantin Dolgov said that Ukraine has broken records in recent years by human rights violations. He also expressed hope that the Kyiv authorities together with the international community will contribute to the unbiased investigation of these violations.
In his turn, President Barack Obama has said that Ukraine should solve their problems. But he asked the Russian government to use its influence in the South-East of the Republic for the settlement of the conflict, and to convince the militia to lay down arms. He again threatened RF another sanctions if it will “provoke” Ukraine.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 6 2014 5:03 utc | 85

@scalawag #84:

“We have no credible evidence confirming reports of human rights violations by the Ukrainian government,” said Harf.

I guess Ms. Harf does not consider the NY Times to be a credible source.

military campaigns also come with risks, namely of alienating what is left of the moderate civilian population in the troubled areas. At a funeral on Wednesday for Alexander Gizai, one of the eight people killed by a Ukrainian airstrike two days before, anger hung in the air.

Or maybe USG policy is that a regime using airstrikes against its own people is perfectly fine, and not any kind of human rights violation (not to mention a war crime), just so long as the regime is a US puppet.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 6 2014 5:14 utc | 86

This link may seem absurd but giving it some sort of “verbal life” might be useful as an alternative to present reality.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jun 6 2014 5:27 utc | 87

Turchynov knows nothing about surrendering captured the Ukrainian frontier guards

“Oleksandr Turchynov, who served as acting President of Ukraine, has once again shown signs of inadequacy and idiocy. He intends to close the border with Russia in Donetsk and Lugansk national republics. Turchynov believes that after closing the border supply of weapons and manpower to help the militia will be eliminated.
Turchynov not explained how he would do it, and what to do it for him. Obviously, not reported. It is impossible, because in the same Lugansk people’s Republic of border guards surrender to the militia whole border guards defend, sometimes just going home without a fight.
Sooner or later, to cover the border to his hated Russia, acting President of Ukraine will need to act independently.
Looking forward manifestation of patriotism from Turchynov.
#SaveDonbassSkyFromNazi”

Two more border posts surrendered on thursday.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 6 2014 6:37 utc | 88

Ukrainian MP kicks out Russian journos from parliament, calls them ‘spies’ (VIDEO)
Lyashko, the Ukrainian nazi under investigation for his molestation of adolescent boys, has one of his hysterical episodes.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 6 2014 18:30 utc | 89

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 5, 2014 3:27:55 PM | 35
In the Haaretz article, Ben Rhodes is referred to as “Obama foreign policy adviser Ben Rhodes.” Here’s how you get to be a foreign policy adviser:

Rhodes then attended Rice University, graduating in 2000 with majors in English and political science. He then moved back to New York, attending New York University and graduating in 2002 with an MFA in creative writing.

The guy is just a campaign speechwriter, paid to obfuscate, simplify and mythologize for the dupes’ consumption; whoever is in charge in the Obama White House prefers that kind of advice over realism or anything that would make its brain hurt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Rhodes_%28politician%29

Posted by: fairleft | Jun 6 2014 20:10 utc | 90

For movie fans “Come and See”
For novel fans “Life and Fate” by Vasily Grossman
For semi-decent western history “Russia’ War” by Richard Overy.

Posted by: Cortes | Jun 6 2014 23:45 utc | 91

Remember the western “al CIAda” merc who cannibalized a dead Syrian soldier? Here is one of the western nazi mercs in the Ukraine.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 7 2014 2:16 utc | 92

Westerners don’t just hire ghouls…
Harvard warns its readers of human-skin bound book
Yes, that’s right. Some American ghoul had a book bound with human skin.

“The book is stored at the university’s Houghton Library together with other rare and antique works. The book, which dates from the 1880s in France, is “a meditation on the soul and life after death” and was a present from the author to his friend, Dr. Ludovic Bouland.
Bouland, a noted doctor and bibliophile, had it bound with skin from the unclaimed body of a female mental patient who had died of a stroke, according to two blog posts on the book that were written by Heather Cole, assistant curator of modern books and manuscripts, Boston Globe says.
Bouland even left a note in the book giving a rather metaphoric explanation of the process.
“A book about the human soul deserved to have a human covering,” he wrote.
However, the practice of binding a book in another person’s skin used to be common. Called anthropodermic bibliopegy, such a creepy binding has occurred at least since the 16th century .”There are many accounts of similar occurrences in the 19th century, in which the bodies of executed criminals were donated to science, and the skins given to tanners and bookbinders,” the library’s blog entry.”

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 7 2014 7:34 utc | 93

A shortcut to reign received

“At the event in honor of destination Poroshenko, it was pretty predictable.
The thesis that the Crimea was and will remain Ukrainian, very funny given the absence of any practical opportunities (well, except for nuclear war) to change its current membership. With the condition that loyal present Kyiv population in Crimea half-crippled all these empty words are meant to amuse “heroes of Maidan”, which does not want to admit that they themselves destroyed the country and put it in the civil war.
Regarding allegations that Ukrainian will remain the only state language, it is very visual confirmation that civil war will continue for svidomij illusions die yet a lot of people. The persistence of the Bandar-log in terms of language, was one of the fundamental fault lines in Ukraine.
All the ideas associated with the federalization, constitutional reform and the overcoming of the split of Ukraine, during March-may 2014 dismembered, drenched in blood, buried in a shallow grave and rammed a bulldozer. Discuss them now really makes no sense, the case will be solved weapons.
Reasonable ways to keep falling site in mass killings and open terror in the fascist junta in Kiev, just no, this serves as a guarantee of further bloodshed.
In all this, according to Poroshenko blame Yanukovych. These accusations very funny, because on the one hand fascist propaganda strongly proves that Yanukovych is not legitimate and does not control, and on the other side ascribes to him the evil plans of large-scale character. Schizophrenia tell you? No, it is Ukraine.”

I wonder what is up with the guard collapsing?

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 7 2014 9:14 utc | 94

scalawag @94 “I wonder what is up with the guard collapsing?”
It’s a relatively common problem.
Soldiers fainting whilst on parade

Posted by: Yonatan | Jun 7 2014 14:50 utc | 95

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