Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 30, 2014

The Islamic State Proudly Presents ...

The Caliphate of Caliph Ibrahim (Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi) and the Islamic State's Ministry of Culture is delighted to reveal its five year plan for global domination.


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The Caliphate and the Islamic State's Ministry of Culture also proudly present their centerfold model for Ramadan 1435 AH.


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Posted by b on June 30, 2014 at 17:46 UTC | Permalink

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Well they are thinking big aren't they.

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 30 2014 17:59 utc | 1

Gee, then I guess if they only end up balkanzining the fucking countries that the apartheid genocidal Israeli scum set out to do in the Yinon Plan or later iterations, why, then it'll LOOK LIKE we stopped that evil ISIS short, huh? Huzzah!

Yup, this fucking "caliphate" thing is pretty fucking clever if you're Israeli/Zionist scum because then when everyone "settles" for the break up of just Iraq and Syria it'll look like the world was able to put the fucking ISIS genie back into its bottle. Hurray!

Why, I bet/guarantee that there are going to be some pockets of ISIS "resistance" that will be just TOO "DIFFICULT" to deal with so TPTB will "unfortunately" have to redraw the maps to take those areas into consideration. Oh well, can't win them all, right? Shucks.

BTW, now that those apartheid genocidal settlers have turned up, let's all remember what war criminal Bibi told us last week - remember, this was BEFORE they found the bodies:

Pointing to the mayhem in Iraq, Netanyahu on Sunday called for the establishment of an independent Kurdistan as part of a broader alliance with moderate forces across the region, adding that Israel would have to maintain a long-term military presence in the West Bank even after any future peace agreement with the Palestinians.

But I'm sure the MSM will cut away from the World Cup and keep us filled in as to any further illegal WB incursions, right?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 30 2014 18:03 utc | 2

@JSorrentine - You give way too much credit to the Israelis. They are minor players though big in propaganda. If you really want to analyses politics, instead of ranting over the ever same object, you will have to think much wider.

Posted by: b | Jun 30 2014 18:10 utc | 3

come on now, that map is made by rumors, western intelligence.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 30 2014 18:10 utc | 4

I guess the map is a joke (of Khaama.net). IS wouldn't call Turkey ANATHOL; they would call it Rum (after Roman).

Posted by: Alexno | Jun 30 2014 18:15 utc | 5

Interesting that Sicily gets a break. It was an Emirate under the Fatimids.

Posted by: dh | Jun 30 2014 18:23 utc | 6

@6: The Famitids were Shiites.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 30 2014 18:30 utc | 7

Those damn dirty Russians. Even the Islamic State only has eyes for half of Crimea.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Jun 30 2014 18:32 utc | 8

@7 OK but they built Cairo. That seems acceptable to the new Caliph.

Posted by: dh | Jun 30 2014 18:35 utc | 9

well at least the centerfold model is sitting with a gun as opposed to the koran which is obviously no coincidence.. i don't get what any of their actions have to do with religion.. in fact the religion of these folks is the very same as the religion of a number of other folks who love hiding behind the skirt tales of religion when in fact it is the power of the gun that they really venerate..

Posted by: james | Jun 30 2014 18:37 utc | 10

LOL Spain is part of there five year plan? Good luck turning that into an Islamic State. Got to admit it takes balls to threaten to invade Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Egypt within a 5 year timeframe.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Jun 30 2014 18:38 utc | 11

Another predominantly Muslim region that is missing is Sinkiang. The Uighurs are mostly Muslim (Sunni Muslim, in fact).

Posted by: lysias | Jun 30 2014 18:39 utc | 12

What interests me, now that Iraq is putting together its air force, what with the recent Russian delivery of the SU-25s and Iran's pledge to return the fighter planes that Saddam stowed there prior to the U.S. invasion, is IS's ability to hold all those highways.

Soon it would seem that there will be city fighting like in Aleppo. Then we can look forward to Kerry complaining about Maliki's use of barrel bombs on the poor minions of Baghdadi.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jun 30 2014 18:39 utc | 13

It took balls to invade both the Byzantine Empire and Sassanid Persia at the same time. The Arabs did, though, and what's more, they won.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 30 2014 18:40 utc | 14

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/28/shimon-peres-isis-israel_n_5540587.html

Aparrently Shimon Peres likes ISIS, or shall I say, the Islamic Caliphate, and thinks Israel and the Arabs could be united by ISIS against 'common threat', IE Iran.

Or at least, he did, 2 days ago, before ISIS came out with this crazy map without Israel on it.

Crazy bastards, with this Islamic Caliphate shit theyre alienating ALL potential geopolitical allies, including Israel.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 18:43 utc | 15

But Im curious, is this map real, or is this some kind of practical joke like the centerfold model?

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 18:46 utc | 16

"Sham" on the map includes not only Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, and Israel, but even the Sinai Peninsula.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 30 2014 18:48 utc | 17

You know what I just realized?

Dumb shits forgot to put Indonesia on their map.

You know, the country with the largest muslim population in the world?

Why would they put Spain and the Balkans on there, which dont have any muslims, or very few at any rate (Albania, Kosovo), but forget the largest muslim country in world?

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 18:48 utc | 18

one has to give isis credit from operating with a level of propaganda that is usually only reserved for the big dog in the west, lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 30 2014 18:50 utc | 19

Such maps are just jokey stuff.

This one, unsurprisingly, resembles maps from the past.

the Umayad or Arab (or … depending on description) Caliphate, 660 + >750.

off the top of goog, 2 ex.

http://www.zonu.com/fullsize-en/2009-12-31-11546/The-Umayyad-Caliphate-661750.html

http://islamiccoins.ancients.info/umayyads/Umayyads_small.JPG

What is not clear is what exactly the shadings mean on the ground. To kick an open door in.

The map posted integrates much of N. Afr. because “religion”.


Posted by: Noirette | Jun 30 2014 18:52 utc | 20

@20

It might not be a coincidence that those parts of Eastern Europe shown on the map are also the parts of Europe the Ottomans had.

But again do we know if this map is real, or is this some kind of joke? Did ISIS really make this?

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 18:56 utc | 21

LOL

Posted by: Marc | Jun 30 2014 18:57 utc | 22

@21 ISIS publish a weekly web report. I haven't got time to go looking but maybe the map is in there.

Posted by: dh | Jun 30 2014 19:01 utc | 23

This would be the maximum historical extent of "the Caliphate" (the Ottoman Empire was a separate entity from the early medieval Caliphate) which includes two periods which don't overlap. The ottoman empire controlled the areas of the Balkans and the steppes much later, after most of the Spanish Reconquista. And they were culturally and politically two completely disparate entities.T

Posted by: Marc | Jun 30 2014 19:01 utc | 24

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30, 2014 2:46:45 PM | 16
psst. It is a joke.

"Al Qaeda was the bad guy who didn't control anything in Anbar," Gray told Business Insider. "When Petraeus told the tribes we'd pay them double what al Qaeda paid, suddenly overnight no Americans were getting killed because the sheikhs said 'we're backing the American guys.'"

But the long-term impact of funding the sheikhs and the Sunnis in Anbar — without creating a more inclusive national government — was that the possibility still existed of a future uprising against the still deeply resented Shiite-led government in Baghdad.

"The longterm downside of funding the sheikhs was you fund a revolution," said Gray. "You have all the sheikhs out west flexing their muscles because they're the ones really in control. ISIS, that's just a front for the sheikhs to get what they want."

Posted by: somebody | Jun 30 2014 19:02 utc | 25

What is the Islamic State's policy for the cancellation of a timeshare property contract in Barcelona?

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Jun 30 2014 19:02 utc | 26

massimia at 21 I have no idea who made it, it looks like a joke to me, so looked up the largest Caliphate of the past. I don't think all this has any importance whatsoever.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 30 2014 19:07 utc | 27

@3

So, am I to understand that the apartheid genocidal state of Israel does NOT still control many of the corridors of power in the United States? Is the US NOT a major player in this whole ME shit storm going back decades?

Then where does the fault in my logic lie? Why shouldn't looking to the Israelis/Zionists be considered a completely logical conclusion especially as this is the ONE ANGLE that no one in the Western MSM seems to talk about?

Note: the last point is one of the reasons I do seem to repeat myself: because through all of the "analysis" it seems that Israel and the Zionist US just seem to come off as simply "incompetent" or "sitting this one out" and people just leave it at that. They buy into the minor narratives that are presented in the MSM - as they are MEANT to propagandistically - and thus are successfully deflected away from the CONTINUED attention that needs to be paid to unabashed and serial war criminal states.

Nope, everyone will analyze this situation from the aspect of every single little regional player but when it comes to looking at it from the POV of the sole regional nuclear power and its nuclear superpower bitch/enabler, why, then we should dig deeper?

Shouldn't what the two most POWERFUL players - i.e., the US and by extension the apartheid genocidal state of Israel - in the region be looked at FIRST? Sure, it's interesting to understand the inside baseball of what other countries are doing but looking at the historical track record of destruction that these two players have accumulated, I don't see why the power struggles of minor players should be much of a concern - i.e., over the last few decades Iran, KSA, Syria etc other players have not instigated and waged aggressive war leading to the death/maiming/displacement of millions of people. The US and Israel have therefore they are both MAJOR players.

Let's say what I describe above does indeed happen or let's say that a balkanization does occur: should we then continue to ignore that this result was the decades-long design of the region's sole nuclear power that enjoyed near unmitigated support by the meddling superpower the US? Will we have to consider yet another shadowy "event" in world history that in the end - once again - furthers the Zionists' agenda?

Lastly, as I have noted here before, the reason why I seemingly incessantly keep my eye on this angle of the story is because NONE of the people in the American Establishment/power have changed/retired/gone to prison/died etc so that the worldview of said Establishment has not really changed much over the last two decades especially in considering the mandatory sycophancy of new Establishemt recruits.

Show me where in the last 20 years or so - post Cold War - that the US has really undergone a noticeable shift away from their current trajectory? Show me the new blood and new ideas that have gripped the minds/imaginations of the Establishment, their minions and their think tanks?

I see no change in thought. I see no change in personnel. I only see the continued domination of a Zionist mindset in the US and the continued commission of war crimes that seemingly only have TANGENTIAL value to the US elite but very well fall within the cost of doing business when viewed from the Zionist camp. Certainly, the achieved aims of certain Zionist goals may only be secondary consideration of the US elite but the fact that they are considerations AT ALL is enough in my mind to warrant said continued attention.

I certainly read and enjoy people's - yours and others - posts on how the various factions are fighting/jockeying in this situation but I will tell you from being American that although the US PTB are NOT incompetent they couldn't give a FUCK LESS about ANY of the this inside ME baseball shit. They know the cardinal rules: support the MIC and support Israel (what difference?) and anything beyond that is small cookies and not on their radar whatsoever. They wait for someone from WINEP/AIPAC to tell them how to vote. Not incompetent but incurious.

P.P.S. I would personally LOVE to exist in a world where people did NOT feel the need to have to continue to draw attention to the machinations of the Zionist US/Israel but that point in time is not here yet by a long shot.

Just remember, according to the MSM:

1) global banking/finance is an intricately complex system that has many players and should NOT be looked at as simply a system of exploitation and theft by TPTB. Let the "experts" tell you what sense to make of it, peons.

2) the US political system is an intricately complex system that has many players and should NOT be looked at as simply as a system of theater and power-entrenchment by TPTB. Let the "experts" tell you what sense to make of it, peons.

3) US foreign policy in the ME is an intricately complex system that has many players that should NOT be looked at as simply as strategy by which the Zionist PTB are putting into motions plans that benefit their most powerful/connected members. Let the "experts" tell you what sense to make of it, peons.

Gotta run.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 30 2014 19:13 utc | 28

@24 I know that, but the Umayyads never controlled Eastern Europe.

Specifically those parts of Eastern Europe.

Look at the Umayyad Caliphate map again and notice that neither Greece, Turkey or Eastern Europe were part of the Umayyads.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 19:15 utc | 29

When you add Turkey, Greece, eastern europe, and of course central Africa, this is much larger than anything the Umayyads ever created.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 19:16 utc | 30

Thanks b, LOL.

Posted by: ben | Jun 30 2014 19:21 utc | 31

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Jun 30, 2014 3:02:33 PM | 26

Don't worry. If you are an apostate it is cancelled automatically.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 30 2014 19:27 utc | 32

Running:

And just to remind people of the laughable propaganda that TPTB push, I suggest entering the following into your favorite browser image search:

bin laden's mountain fortress

Yes, it's laughable. Yes, it's retarded. But it's a purposeful and serious bit of propaganda just the same.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 30 2014 19:28 utc | 33

well ... it is a serious joke.

ISIS/IS German propaganda material - pdf - education and consumer protection

including telephone number for complaints ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 30 2014 19:37 utc | 34

@34

Thats nice but, for those of us who dont speak German, what does it say?

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 20:15 utc | 35

I think this is the English version - Islamic state report - an insight into the Islamic state

Posted by: somebody | Jun 30 2014 20:39 utc | 36

somebody in that daily mail piece there's more "returning jihadis":


Yesterday Home Secretary Theresa May said it is believed about 400 young men have left the UK to join ISIS in the Middle East.
She warned these jihadists are now 'just a few hours flying time' from striking Britain, adding that they will 'want to attack us' when they return.
Mrs May said Islamist fighters had carved out a 'safe haven' in the Middle East - with 'advanced technology and weapons' capable of threatening the UK.

She said the terror threat was now 'on the doorstep of Europe' and was the most serious since 9/11.


Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 30 2014 21:05 utc | 37

I agree completely with JSor...

ISIS is a sham, as far as being self-organized, etc. They have been trained and created as a psyop terror campaign... imho

Israel definitely has a hand in ISIS, as does USG

As for giving Israel credit... not enough folks are aware of the power zionists yield. They certainly run the USG... imho

Posted by: crone | Jun 30 2014 21:12 utc | 38

I bet that homo in the centerfold has a thong under his dress. I'm also guessing that quite a few of you are having difficulty containing your erections — especially those of you who are Russian.

Maybe ISIS can come out with a clothing line. A free crucifixion with every order over $100. Nice socks to match the dress. Maybe eventually they'll get a little more daring with colors.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 30 2014 21:20 utc | 39

cold one - isn't that a pic of you?

Posted by: james | Jun 30 2014 21:37 utc | 40

@39 Or maybe they can team up with Madonna and get some serious brand recognition. Maybe even get on Colbert.

Posted by: dh | Jun 30 2014 21:44 utc | 41

@39

Is that all you can do to add to the thread? Ad Hominem atacks?

BTW, according to that link @36, they DO have a clothing line: Shirts, hoodies, baseball caps, as well as toy plushies for the kids. All this shit is from Indonesia.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 21:51 utc | 42

Im upset that Guardian shows some pictures of the English version but doesnt link to it. Hard to find it in Google.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 21:52 utc | 43

Oh, its a magazine pamphlet thing. I guess thats why its not online.

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 30 2014 21:53 utc | 44

dh@41 ISIS Hoodies and T Shirts for sale on line as Islamist 'Brand' goes global.http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-hoodies-t-shirts-sale-online-islamist-brand-goes-global-1453715 But just like your local football team they changed their logo to IS, so you would need to buy more merchandise, to stay "with it".

Posted by: harry law | Jun 30 2014 22:10 utc | 45

245 I can't keep up harry. Events move so fast. Great to see Tony Blair telling us how to fix it. I was lost without him.

Posted by: dh | Jun 30 2014 22:22 utc | 46

But just like your local football team they changed their logo to IS, so you would need to buy more merchandise, to stay "with it".

I thought Bill Clinton had "IS" trademarked after the ballyhoo surrounding his impeachment deposition? If so, ISIS owes him royalties. I wonder if he'll accept the House of Saud on a platter versus dollars — they're royalty (the House of Saud) afterall, are they not?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 30 2014 22:51 utc | 47

Who could have imagined that our resident troll is a homophobe? More blasts from the benighted 1950's. When some people claimed to like Catcher in the Rye.

Posted by: lysias | Jun 30 2014 22:56 utc | 48

I hear Dubya is painting a portrait of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Reprints will be available in a few weeks at the ISIS online store. I can't wait. b asked where ISIS will go next. I think the answer is now plainly obvious — Disney World. And it'd be nice if Universal could create a theme attraction around this organization much like they did with Harry Potter. The marketing potential of this phenomenon is endless — the sky and beyond is the limit.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 30 2014 22:58 utc | 49

ISIS is really making a joke of Sunni Islam.

The Syrian government is coming out of that crisis admired and respected by all the Sunni who call themselves moderates.
Get ready for Syria rejoining the Arab League...

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 30 2014 23:27 utc | 50

J.Sorrentine @28
"...So, am I to understand that the apartheid genocidal state of Israel does NOT still control many of the corridors of power in the United States?..."

No. Israel does not still control many of the corridors of power in the United States. Nor did it, ever. They are all controlled by the ruling class which has been running the country since the 1780s.

The burden of your rant would seem to be that Israel controls the United States, at least in so far as its Mid East policies are concerned, but you weasel in the vague modification "many of the corridors of power", presumably in the belief that nobody will see the difference between influence and control.

Israel has plenty of influence over the US, though not anything like as much as the US has over Israel, but it certainly doesn't control it.

To assert that it does, incidentally, is to do what you accuse others of doing, and let the war criminals in Washington off the hook.

Let's spell it out: the US invaded Iraq on its own account, with its own aims and within its long practised foreign policies. It did not do so because Tel Aviv ordered it to.

"Is the US NOT a major player in this whole ME shit storm going back decades?..."

Yes it is. Is anyone suggesting otherwise? Anyone, that is, other than those who cast the US in the role of a zombie power totally under the control of Israeli agents.

The nature of the relationship between Israel and the US is related to the fact that Israel is a colony, still expanding, in a country with which its people have only a vague mythological connection. It is a US colony, entirely dependent on US military, financial and diplomatic support, without which it would not last a month.

As to ISIS: the notion that Israel controls it is simply nonsensical.

No doubt Israel benefits or hopes to benefit from its current operations, in much the same way that it benefited, during the Iran Iraq war, from Saddam's actions. But Israel no more controlled Saddam than Saddam had any connection with Bin Laden, despite the fact that Bin Laden included US sanctions against Iraq in his indictments of the US.

Such is the nature of international relations: often states are quite mistaken.

For example no state, it might be argued, has more clearly benefited from the crisis in Iraq than Russia. Suddenly it is being wooed by the Iraqi government, it seems to ask for nothing for assistance (in contrast with the overbearing and dangerous US), it pins down thousands of Chechen fighters who might otherwise challenge it, the pressure of NATO expansion in Ukraine is obviously relieved, the possibility of including Iraq's oil reserves, plus Iran's, in a Sino-Russian trading bloc and undermining the dollar's reserve status, increases. And so on...
But only a certifiable lunatic would suggest that ISIS is a Russian creation, or a Syrian regime front (as some have claimed, outlandishly).

I don't have the time or space to deal with the Yinon plan, which Sorrentine waves about like a talisman, suffice it to say Yinon's followers ought to be careful about what they wish for.

The large (Sykes-Picot) states, carved out by imperialists, were designed to be easily dominated. Merely keeping them together-see Syria- takes enormous energy.

Such states, historically, have only threatened Israel during the period in which Nasser's populist socio-economic policies underpinned an Arab nationalist strategy which threatened the imperialists (at the time largely British) and Israel. Since Nasser's demise, following defeat by the imperialists in Yemen and the 1967 war, the large states have posed no danger whatever to Israel, nor did Egypt even when the Muslim Brotherhood was in office.

In other words Israel loves these large states full of minorities capable of being played off against each other, ruled by militaries whose overwhelming interest is to hold down the populace while it is being raped.

It is not a coincidence that the one movement Israel fears in the region is the representative of a largely rural impoverished minority in the one state which is pre-divided, along Yinon's lines, namely Hezbollah in Lebanon, which causes Israel more grief than all the air forces and armies of the Arab League.

And will always do so, because it alone mobilises the masses and is rooted not in weird theologies, or aping of the white man's ways (and garb) but in communal self defense and solidarity.

Yinon's plan may seem to be coming to fruition but there is little in the current crisis for Israel to take comfort in.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 1 2014 0:51 utc | 51

@51

Bull manure...

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2014 1:36 utc | 52

@51

I can't wait 'til JSorrentine responds to your post.

You are a zionist, aren't you? I suspected you were, but this post is so full of hasbara it's a dead giveaway.

Yes indeed... going to sit back and have a nice glass of wine when JS rips this apart.

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2014 1:45 utc | 53

@51

I usually start to read your rebuttals of my posts with some mild excitement knowing that I will at least get to counter each of your erroneous points but today - point after point of yours - I came away sad truly now understanding the depth/totality of your MSM-conditioning.

Seriously, the entire history of the American neocons as radical Zionists, their command of US foreign policy before and during the GWOT, the inexorable power of AIPAC, the apartheid genocidal state of Israel's treachery concerning US foreign policy/espionage, the buildup of the Christian Zionist front in the US and the overwhelming adherence to said ideology by the US military elite and rank-and-file all are well-documented. There's just no disputing a single of these facts.

Then you go on to actually give credence to the official 9/11 story including references to OBL's demands as if those are worth a bucket spit and then end with the farcical nonsense that the nation that CREATED Hamas and funded/utilized any number of radical mercenary groups throughout its sordid history actually is WORRIED about ISIS? Are you serious? I don't think you are which leads me to my next point.

Either you're just baiting me to waste my time and energy with obviously ridiculous posts like these - I've thought about that before - or you really do have some serious gaps in knowledge. Either way the effect on me is the same. Meh. I truly don't even feel the need/desire to waste my time rebutting you because it would be as useful debating someone about whether I think Hillary has a shot in '16. There's no point as the person is too engrossed/interested in the quotidian ramblings/musings/analysis of the bourgeois press etc and thus when situations are viewed from a larger context there is demonstrated a gross inability on their part to jettison said "complexifying" nonsense and view the situation as it fits the facts.

With that said, I will speak to a couple things and then run:

Oh, so even though until very recently in the West - especially the US and still true largely - polite conversation could not even MENTION Israel and the Zionist bent of nearly every single member of the US Establishment what REALLY is happening according to you is that Israel is NOT powerful. The "gag rule" that has been in effect for nearly 3 decades really belies the fact that Israel/Zionists are actually the BITCHES of US foreign policy, right? The standing ovations and unanimous Congressional votes, the billions in foreign/military aid decade after decade - with NOTHING IN RETURN to show, no "obedience", etc. - have been a HUGE RUSE that - for some unclear reason - has been put into effect to hide how LITTLE influence Israel has in the US. Wow.

And you think I engage in conspiracy theories? Holy shit.

Lastly, by continually including mention of the war criminal apartheid genocidal Israelis and their ilk in the US I don't see how I am letting any one off the hook as I am increasing awareness as to the number of gallows/jail cells that will be needed once/if they are prosecuted for their crimes. I've explained quite clearly that I don't take to the "following orders" defense so if the US war criminals are "following Israeli orders" or not they and the Israelis are ALL guilty of war crimes of their own accord anyways. So there's that bit of your nonsense addressed.

Really, I had previously considered taking the advice of others and not responding in any length to your pabulum but I can see that there really isn't reason for the expenditure of time anymore.

Millions of people are dead/maimed/homeless DIRECTLY because of the influence of Zionism/Israel on the affairs of the ME vis a vis the United States and to say otherwise and lay the blame at policies/politicians that are a century old and/or dead is REALLY letting the still living/breathing war criminals off the hook if we are going to be honest about what you're saying.

Too bad I can't tell - nor longer care - if you are anymore or ever were.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 1 2014 2:03 utc | 54

@bevin #51:

To assert that [the Israel lobby has significant influence over US Middle East policy], incidentally, is to do what you accuse others of doing, and let the war criminals in Washington off the hook.

Let's spell it out: the US invaded Iraq on its own account, with its own aims and within its long practised foreign policies. It did not do so because Tel Aviv ordered it to.

So Walt and Mearsheimer are conspiracy theorists? Because the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq is what prompted them to write their article.

Also, nobody has claimed that Israel "ordered" the US to invade Iraq. That is not how the Lobby works. Finally, the idea that the Lobby causing the US to invade Iraq lets USG officials off the hook is obviously a specious argument. So we have one straw man argument and another specious argument, in three consecutive sentences. Hasbara is becoming as crude as the propaganda of the Empire itself.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 1 2014 2:10 utc | 55

Having read crone's post I will add this:

Notice, bevin, I didn't claim you were hasbara or any such thing because I do feel that since your posts have been such obvious flame-bait for me as of late - gee, I do remember something about b threatening to ban me from the site because I came down too "hard" and personal on you once - that when addressing you I do purposefully steer clear of my usual curse arsenal or accusations of "hasbara" or any such stuff that could be used as an ostensible reason for kicking me off. Yeah, we're done.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jul 1 2014 2:14 utc | 56

@JSorrentine #56:

I don't see how anyone can argue that the tail doesn't wag the dog (to use Uri Avnery's formulation), given that the USG hushed up the USS Liberty incidesnt. It's really quite impossible to imagine USG "turning the other cheek" if any of its other "allies" deliberately killed 34 of its sailors and naval officers.

You really need to be completely brainwashed not to think that the USS Liberty incident settles the matter when it comes to the power of the US Israel lobby. And that was in 1967. The Lobby has only grown more powerful since then. (It's power may have peaked, but that's kind of a moot point, since the Empire's day's appear to be numbered.)

Posted by: Demian | Jul 1 2014 3:21 utc | 57

via the History Channel

Jun 8, 1967:

Israel attacks USS Liberty

During the Six-Day War, Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats attack the USS Liberty in international waters off Egypt's Gaza Strip. The intelligence ship, well-marked as an American vessel and only lightly armed, was attacked first by Israeli aircraft that fired napalm and rockets at the ship. The Liberty attempted to radio for assistance, but the Israeli aircraft blocked the transmissions. Eventually, the ship was able to make contact with the U.S. carrier Saratoga, and 12 fighter jets and four tanker planes were dispatched to defend the Liberty. When word of their deployment reached Washington, however, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them recalled to the carrier, and they never reached the Liberty. The reason for the recall remains unclear.

Back in the Mediterranean, the initial air raid against the Liberty was over. Nine of the 294 crewmembers were dead and 60 were wounded. Suddenly, the ship was attacked by Israeli torpedo boats, which launched torpedoes and fired artillery at the ship. Under the command of its wounded captain, William L. McGonagle, the Liberty managed to avert four torpedoes, but one struck the ship at the waterline. Heavily damaged, the ship launched three lifeboats, but these were also attacked--a violation of international law. Failing to sink the Liberty, which displaced 10,000 tons, the Israelis finally desisted. In all, 34 Americans were killed and 171 were wounded in the two-hour attack. In the attack's aftermath, the Liberty managed to limp to a safe port.

Israel later apologized for the attack and offered $6.9 million in compensation, claiming that it had mistaken the Liberty for an Egyptian ship. However, Liberty survivors, and some former U.S. officials, believe that the attack was deliberate, staged to conceal Israel's pending seizure of Syria's Golan Heights, which occurred the next day. The ship's listening devices would likely have overheard Israeli military communications planning this controversial operation. Captain McGonagle was later awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic command of the Liberty during and after the attack.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/israel-attacks-uss-ilibertyi

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2014 4:52 utc | 58

Do people read the posts of JSorrentine? Just wondering.

Posted by: Django | Jul 1 2014 5:25 utc | 59

A very lengthy article about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty here

Excerpts:

"The lesson of the cold-blooded attack on the USS Liberty was that there is nothing the Zionist state might not do, to its friends as well as its enemies, in order to get its own way."

"On the 45th anniversary of that attack, this post is providing the complete text of Chapter Two of the three-volume American edition of my book Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews. The chapter is titled The Liberty Affair – “Pure Murder” on a “Great Day”.

My American publisher expressed to me the view that it is “the most revealing, the most riveting and the most important chapter in the whole book.” My own view is that it assists real understanding of what the Zionist state of Israel is – a monster beyond control."

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2014 5:27 utc | 60

@crone #58:

"Eventually, the ship was able to make contact with the U.S. carrier Saratoga, and 12 fighter jets and four tanker planes were dispatched to defend the Liberty. When word of their deployment reached Washington, however, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them recalled to the carrier, and they never reached the Liberty."

The satirical Russian Wikipedia I mentioned before has an article on ZOG (they actually write this using the Latin script, instead of Cyrillic):

ZOG (engl. Zionist Occupation Government) … World-wide, naturally. It should be noted that the ZOG never directly orders anyone what to do – it merely insistently advises, encourages and, most importantly, predicts. Someone who does not listen to such advice quickly disappears from the horizon, for some reason.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 1 2014 5:36 utc | 61


bevin makes much more sense than the one trick pony JSorrentine. He may be a Marxist or something, but he makes his points with clarity and logic.

Posted by: Ivan | Jul 1 2014 6:08 utc | 62

Posted by: crone | Jun 30, 2014 9:36:37 PM | 52

Yup.

Posted by: crone | Jun 30, 2014 9:45:26 PM | 53

Yup.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 30, 2014 10:03:11 PM | 54

Nice take-down. :)

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 30, 2014 10:14:26 PM | 56

The AZZ network supports their own.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 6:25 utc | 63

http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-abd-belarus-send-sukhoi-jets-to-iraq-slams-west-over-syria/5389100 Russia and Belarus Send Sukhoi Jets to Iraq, Moscow Slam West Over Syria

"But that seemed to be too little, too late for Russia’s Foreign Ministry, which pinned the blame for growing instability in the Middle East on the West in a statement on its website on Saturday.

The ministry condemned the latest United Nations Human Rights Council resolution on Syria as “one-sided and politically biased” for placing the blame solely on Syrian government forces.

The resolution fails to acknowledge “the threat to human rights from jihadist gangs whose actions are aimed at destabilizing the situation in the entire region,” the ministry said, adding that Russia’s proposal to condemn the bloodshed by ISIL was ignored.

Such moves by countries including Britain, Germany, Italy, France and the U.S., give reason to believe that their goal is not to stop the crisis, but to ”continue destabilizing the situation in the country regardless of the consequences,” the statement said.

“Fewer and fewer countries are ready to follow those who continue their irresponsible course of action for a violent power change in a sovereign state, neglecting the interests of regional security and playing into the hands of terrorist groups leading the war in Syria, Iraq and other countries in the Middle East,” the statement said."

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 6:37 utc | 64

Flashback

US Army General Wesley Clark, talks about the future plans to invade 7 Muslim Countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz5fZziMWEE

Posted by: Paty Kerry | Jul 1 2014 6:56 utc | 65

@ Massinissa: "Why would they put Spain and the Balkans on there, which dont have any muslims, or very few at any rate (Albania, Kosovo), but forget the largest muslim country in world?"

Dude, learn some geography and history... Turkey went till Bosnian/Croatian border during the Ottoman Empire. Bosnia has some 35-40% muslims and Kosovo some 75%. Albania is also almost purely muslim, with just a few catholics here and there.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1 2014 7:03 utc | 66

The author of this piece from Information Clearing House is obviously channeling JSore:

A Feast For Maggots
The Hounds of War: a Dedication to Our Leaders

By William A. Cook

June 29, 2014 "ICH" - Each morning we wake to the rabid wail of old defeated warriors, now no longer in halls of power, who prowl the studios of our infotainment industry and the commercial temples of our ministers of war to yelp and whine one last time before they succumb to the inevitable: a feast for maggots. How sad to witness that ancient soldier, Senator John McCain, shuffle before the cameras, one last glorious moment before the klieg lights finally go out, saliva dripping from his lips in curdled drops—“more war!, more war!, more war!”
How ironic to hear our former snarling Vice President, Dick Cheney, risen from the dead with a new heart, yet oblivious to the suffering and destruction he brought to the world, growl again for “more war! more war! more war!” How ignominious for Paul Wolfowitz to crawl from his cave to tell the American people to finish what he had brought to Iraq, a blessed democracy welcomed with flowers from the people there, his glorious little war that would be paid for by Iraqi oil profits.

How repugnant to watch Bill Kristol grovel before those he urged into war, not the dead soldiers or the dead Iraqis who suffered his disastrous thoughts turned into reality, but those he deceived into believing this was a war America should have fought only to realize it was built on deception and lies, all hidden as necessary for America’s security when in fact it was a war of proxy for his true country, Israel. How demented these hounds of war, defending the indefensible, blaming those who defied them, the brilliant intellects that strike hard the word processing keys as they sit in air conditioned offices surrounded by award plaques given to their brilliance by AIPAC and PNAC, and all the other think tank clones that keep wars going ensuring an incestuous birthing of rapid, deceitful, boastful articles to manage public opinion to their will.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38946.htm

Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 1 2014 7:18 utc | 67

Saudiphile CIA director behind ISIL rise: Analyst

An American author and investigative journalist says CIA director John Brennan who is “a known Saudiphile” has played a key role in the creation and rise of the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/369304.html

Posted by: Paty Kerry | Jul 1 2014 7:22 utc | 68

Oh and YET AGAIN we have the usual band of idiots screaming "Israeeeel did it aaaalll!!1" including the faking of moon landings... yeah, it's not like the Liberty was there for spying or such, they were just going for a walk into the area which was at war. Who in his sane mind would expect an unidentified ship to be attacked in such a situation? Gosh.

Of course they always provide "well-dicumented" proof of their claims... which is an article by the next idiot on some blogspot hangout. Dumbfwcks.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1 2014 7:25 utc | 69

@T2015 #69:

Who in his sane mind would expect an unidentified ship to be attacked in such a situation?

The Liberty was well identified. Go away, hasbara troll. With bevin I was joking, with you I am not.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 1 2014 7:38 utc | 70

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-bombs-gaza-sites-hours-bodies-israeli-teens-055135800.html Israel bombs Gaza sites hours after bodies of Israeli teens found

"Israeli aircraft bombed dozens of sites in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, the military said, and troops opened fire and killed a Palestinian during an arrest raid in the occupied West Bank, Palestinian medics said."

Israeli Jews practicing collective punishment, just like the nazis did in their occupied territories. History repeats. Same kind of master race, same view of the untermenschen.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 8:03 utc | 71

It's not like you'd know shite about history. As I often said, there is no Israel. It is an outpost of the british empitre, ruled by the masonic British-bred mafia.

This is some history, at least for those who DO bother reading:
http://emperor.vwh.net/history/br.htm

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1 2014 8:19 utc | 72

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1, 2014 4:19:01 AM | 72

So T2015 invokes it's "all a Brit plot" the same way bevin invokes "it's all an American plot" to hide and excuse Israeli/zionist Jewish influence. Coincidence, or a variation on the same hasbara deflection strategy?

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 8:39 utc | 73

British Empire is not UK nor the "brits". Why do I have to repeat things five times till you understand them?

For "those who DO bother reading" as I said. You are not the sort, you're a non-thinking consumer of cheap propaganda for dummies.

And stop calling me "hasbara", or I'll start calling you a nazi. Which would in your case at least be true.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1 2014 8:48 utc | 74

bevin's response to JSor dissimulates oligarchal domination of US policy w. the country of Israel; assuming good faith it suggests bevin has little direct experience of how the US govt operates

Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Jul 1 2014 9:00 utc | 75

Posted by: Django | Jul 1, 2014 1:25:50 AM | 59

"Do people read the posts of JSorrentine? Just wondering."

Posted by: Ivan | Jul 1, 2014 2:08:28 AM | 62

"bevin makes much more sense than the one trick pony JSorrentine. He may be a Marxist or something, but he makes his points with clarity and logic."

Israel Shamir wrote a piece about these sort of Israeli spambot smear tactics. He calls them the SWARM.

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng9.htm Carter and the Swarm

A good description of the way Jewish zionists attempt to drown out the voices of those they don't own. What they do in macro against well known people, they also do in micro on blogs as this. The tactics used by "Django" and "Ivan" are common place, on many Jewish sites and across the western msm, that kind of debate is almost all there is thanks to organized hasbara.

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 1 2014 9:08 utc | 76

The US claim the reasons the F16's have not arrived in Iraq yet [ordered in 2011] are..“The United States remains committed to delivering the F-16s to Iraq as quickly as possible,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Monday, blaming some of the delay on the “completion of required financial and administrative details, which the Iraqi government has been slow to complete.”[Time Magazine]. The US must think everyone is as stupid as they are.

Posted by: harry law | Jul 1 2014 9:48 utc | 77

T2015,I read that emperor thing. Not bad hasbara, as hasbara goes. But I didn't have to go but a few paragraphs into before I realized Jarod Israel was telling HALF the story, no mention at all of the world powers that were supporting the Jews, except one small sentence about US. Then a few more paragraphs in, it be came clear that the Brits were trying to recreate in Palestine what they had created in India and their other colonies with 'divide and rule'. Even though the Brits didn't continue much control over Palestine after their Mandate expired, the last section makes perfectly clear that the Brits looted the hell out of the country, and still have proxy looting going on today.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 1 2014 10:13 utc | 78

@ okie: yeah, he is telling the OTHER half of the story, the half that's usually never being communicated.

I don't believe we will ever find the "whole" story on anything, anywhere. It's always a puzzle.

Posted by: T2015 | Jul 1 2014 11:00 utc | 79

from Indian Punchline:

ISIS plants a thought in Iraqi Sunni mind
In a panel discussion on Iraq developments last night on a Malayalam television channel, a Muslim intellectual from Malabar pointed out that during the so-called Moplah Rebellion in 1921 (an armed uprising against the British colonial rulers and Hindus) a Caliphate was declared in the town of Manjeri (in present-day Muslim majority district of Malappuram in Kerala). The Manjeri Caliphate of course proved short-lived, as indeed many such misadventures in Muslim history. To be sure, the fate of the Caliphate announced by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [ISIS] in Iraq cannot be any different from the Manjeri Caliphate.

In fact, the Caliphate proclaimed by the ISIS is already being ridiculed across the Muslim Middle East. But its real significance lies elsewhere in two directions.
One, a Himalayan metaphor has surged highlighting the failure of the US’ war in Iraq. Unfortunately, the man to take the flak for the sins of the past happens to be the incumbent president Barack Obama. From this point onward as the metaphor of the Caliphate gets played out on TV screens in the American homes, Obama’s hands are tied; he not only has to ‘act’ on Iraq but also has to be visibly seen ‘acting’.
Secondly, and more importantly, a terrible beauty is born on the Iraqi Sunni consciousness — the tantalizing idea of a political entity for themselves in an otherwise Shi’ite majority land. The ISIS has planted a thought that may refuse to fade away easily.
Put differently, Iraq’s fragmentation has taken one big step forward this weekend with the announcement by ISIS of the islamic Caliphate. Many trends are converging here — Iraqi as well as regional trends.
The Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani declared on Friday that there is no way the Peshmerga will vacate Kirkuk which they occupied in the wake of the ISIS’s appearance in Mosul on June 10. Interestingly, he said this in Erbil in the presence of the visiting British Foreign Secretary William Hague. The poignancy of the setting, in historical terms, cannot be lost on the region.
Even more significantly, when the visiting US secretary of state John Kerry was asked about the Kurds’ demand for independence last week in Erbil, he neatly parried the question and refused to be critical.
Again, on Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has no reason to be shy like Hague or Kerry, took the bull by the horns and openly voiced support for Kurdish independence in Iraq.
Indeed, Kirkuk sits on a sea of oil and its possession radically transforms the future of Kurdistan from being a rugged, economically non-viable land into a second Kuwait on the planet. Barzani is losing no time to boost Kurdistan’s oil exports by including the fabulous oil fields of Kirkuk as his newfound assets. He may now even dispense with the revenue-sharing arrangement with Baghdad.
Enter Turkey. Kurdistan’s oil exports depend on the transit route via Turkey and Ankara sees a new paradigm shaping up in regional politics. Turkey is already a major presence in the economy of Kurdistan. Its exports to Kurdistan exceed all of its exports to Iraq.
The Turks get oil at subsidized price from Kurdistan, camouflaged as ‘transit fee’ while Barzani makes a quick buck on the quiet and it has been a ‘win-win’ situation for both sides.
Ankara has ignored the protests by Baghdad that Turkey is violating Iraqi sovereignty by having such a torrid affair with Kurdistan directly while bypassing the federal government, which the Iraqi constitution expressly forbids. Frankly, Turks couldn’t care less, because Barzani is now willing also to be a collaborator in finding a settlement for Turkey’s longstanding Kurdish problem.
Ironically, if Prime MInister Recep Erdogan, who is putting forth his candidacy on Tuesday for the upcoming presidential election in Turkey, is reasonably confident of winning in the first round without the need of a bruising runoff by winning 50% of the votes, it will be thanks to the Kurdish votes, which Barzani would organize for him in return for his pledge that as an elected president in Ankara, he will move forward on Kurdish autonomy.
All in all, Erdogan and Barzani have one hell of a Faustian deal. With Kirkuk oil thrown in, it is veritably a match made in heaven. Both are big-time operators in mixing politics with money — and are ruthless practitioners of power.
The upshot of all this is that Turkey is in the same camp as the US, Britain and Israel as a ‘friend’ of Kurdistan. There was a time when Turkey used to lose sleep over the spectre of an independent Kurdistan shaping up near its borders, but that has become a thing of the past.
On the contrary, Ankara harbors ambitions of taking an independent Kurdistan under its wings. Turkey estimates (rightly so) that for its sheer survival, an independent Kurdistan will heavily depend on its goodwill and support and therefore, the umbilical cord that ties Erbil to Ankara can never really be severed.
Suffice to say, the Sunnis of Iraq are witnessing with mixed feelings the phenomenal success of the Kurds in capitalizing on the windfall of the Arab Spring and the systematic decimation of Iraqi nationalism by Washington through the period of US occupation since 2003 by superimposing on Iraqi nationalism the new matrix of politics based on confessional affiliation. The Iraqi Sunnis are bound to draw the appropriate conclusions at some point — if they haven’t already: ‘Why not for us too, what the Kurds have achieved?’
Without doubt, the Caliphate on the fertile lands sandwiched between the Tigris and Euphrates will be short-lived. But a Sunni state that borders Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria would be an altogether different geopolitical proposition.
Make no mistake, Saudi Arabia is also a hugely ambitious regional power with a barely-disguised agenda of regional hegemony — like Turkey has — and it also has had a long history of territorial disputes with its neighboring countries, including Sunni countries such as Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen.
In sum, when it comes to Saudi Arabia and Iraq, there are all the ingredients present of a highly problematic relationship full of ambiguities and seamless possibilities alike. Which is where right on its borders a subservient Sunni state emerging on the territory of present-day Iraq would suit Saudi Arabia exceedingly well — although the tendency among the Western analysts is to fathom the obscure Saudi mind exclusively in terms of its rivalry with Shi’ite Iran.
By M K Bhadrakumar – July 1, 2014


Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 1 2014 11:09 utc | 80

Even before the Israelis started their attack on the USS Liberty by firing heat-seeking missiles at the ship's broadcasting antennas, they were jamming the radio frequencies on which it broadcast, both U.S. Navy frequencies and the International Distress Frequency. They obviously were well aware that the Liberty was a U.S. ship.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 1 2014 14:20 utc | 81

Why shouldn't looking to the Israelis/Zionists be considered a completely logical conclusion especially as this is the ONE ANGLE that no one in the Western MSM seems to talk about? Sorrentine.

(The MSM are of course the pits.)

Why is this issue so hard and so contentious? (No need to answer.)

Israel is the 51st state, but a dependent and tinpot one. (If the US lets it go, it is dead or will change.) The two are tied together in a sick, symbiotic relationship, where mutual influence forms a whole, rather than one partner doing the bidding of the other, or ordering the other, etc. Israel as a belligerent outpost with all the trappings of colonialism up close and dirty (as the Palestinians are right there amongst them) suits the US no end as a deformed societal mirror, as a plucky outsider battling Islamist hordes (or what not), so is a tool in foreign policy. Israel, in return, to maintain its pride or self - standing has to indulge in manipulation and influence of the stronger partner, otherwise it is just a minion, a powerless nobody. So manipulate it does, and moreover crows about it, exaggerates when it can, uses trickery, and certainly more (…) etc. “Americans are foolish idiots and we are smarter!”

At an individual level as metaphor, a marriage made in hell, where both parties egg each other on, and both appear to find some advantage while exploiting the other. Until the relationship collapses.

At a more group level metaphor, it is like the relationship between a Mafia-type organisation and a corrupt state. The two blend, meld, part of the ties are occult, a poisonous circle of influence and secrecy is set up, with both parties protecting the other in cases of ‘leakage.’ (As does the married couple when they are hauled into court for child abuse.)

What the quarrels obscure is, imho, the real role of the US, as well as the fact that the whole show is run by monied and powerful interests in various ‘industries’ - arms, finance, big Corps, drugs, trafficking of various kinds .. So in a way, it is a distraction.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 1 2014 14:53 utc | 82

Yep, the US intend to let/have Iraq slide into civil war.

The Obama team knows that Iraqis will not trust Mr. Maliki to share power seriously. They are maneuvering to find alternatives. It will be more difficult than ever to persuade Iraqi Sunnis to accept a federal Iraq, given recent history; even the Kurds seem inclined to go their own way.

Words will not bring Iraqis over from the separatist dark side. Only the hell of civil war can bring them back, in time, to political solutions. And only then can Washington help the Iraqis do what they should have done a decade ago.

There are 800 US soldiers in Iraq now up from 300, there will be more.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 1 2014 15:06 utc | 83

bevin,

i often enjoy your posts, but i find myself at odds with you on your viewpoint that israel and the usa aren't obviously intertwined in an unhealthy way, or that israel has no significant impact on usa foreign policy.. i think you do yourself a dis-service by suggesting anything like this - if i read your comments @ 51 correctly..

Posted by: james | Jul 1 2014 15:59 utc | 84

Posted by: james | Jul 1, 2014 11:59:54 AM | 84

Save your breath. Bevin can smell (and smear) an anti-Semite at 1000 paces...
...with his eyes closed almost as tightly as his mind.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 1 2014 18:10 utc | 85

There was a time when this was the sanest place on the internet. Regularly we could read Billmon's intelligent analyses and the comments of an array of well informed bloggers. Now the Moon of Alabama seems to have been taken over by mindless drooling fruitcakes who rave at each other like demented apes imprisoned in cages. You lot spitting out insults at each other and engulfed in your paranoid fantasies must have been taken over by lizards or poisoned by chem trails or something. Even Slothrop and Debs is Dead seem to have abandoned this madhouse. I'm off. Not going to come back to Bedlam to laugh at the loonies. Not fun. Bye.

Posted by: emmeyekayee | Jul 1 2014 19:18 utc | 86

@ 86

It is the hasbara bots who are the problem (they are an army of folks bent on spreading disinformation, and they are aware it is disinformation)... and the fact that they still can't get used to being called out. As an American, I am dog-tired of my relatives and friends dying for a zionist agenda. Really tired. So, I will continue to call it as I see it. If you don't feel you can scroll on past the discussion you abhor, then that's your problem, as I see it. This blog is just as good as the good ol' days of Billmon. Just as much real information, links and excellent articles by b as ever.

We all make our own choices. I choose to call disinformation when I see it.

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2014 22:13 utc | 87

bevin vs sorrentine.....


"Then you go on to actually give credence to the official 9/11 story including references to OBL's demands as if those are worth a bucket spit and then end with the farcical nonsense that the nation that CREATED Hamas and funded/utilized any number of radical mercenary groups throughout its sordid history actually is WORRIED about ISIS?"

Bevin underestimates Zionist influence/control and, of course, the Formidable Conspiracy hobbyists somewhat overestimate it, but particularly its intimated seamless garment of victories since the Empire proved vulnerable at home.

Why, yes, Israel has worried about Hamas, at times, once it left its grip.


With Iran, Russia & China on-side, Syria has the best war-fighting assets in the world. That's why Obama has been so timid since October 2013.

Hoarsefeather was right, and , of course, this comment hints what with all the finessed manuevers the fact remains that the US and Israel have been losing in increments since 9-10-2001.


Posted by: truthbetold | Jul 1 2014 23:14 utc | 88

crone

george says hi

Posted by: wes | Jul 1 2014 23:24 utc | 89

@crone #87:

As an American, I am dog-tired of my relatives and friends dying for a zionist agenda. Really tired.

I'm exactly the same way. Maybe I'm a bad person in this respect, but my positions on Israel are determined mainly by what I think is good for Americans, not by the injustice that Israel continually perpetrates on the Palestinians. I guess I am self-centered in that respect.

Also, Israel is not the only country that has continually engaged in an illegal occupation for decades. Turkey is illegally occupying Cyprus, but nobody ever brings that up. Sure, the Palestinians have suffered immeasurably more from Israel's actions than Greek Cypriots have from Turkey's actions, but that does not mean that Turkey should be given the free ride it is getting on Cyprus. At the very least, it should be a scandal that a NATO country is illegally occupying a country and has no intention of leaving it.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 2 2014 0:22 utc | 90

islamic states, are known to be hostile and tax non muslims #religionofpeace Shia will simply be eliminated.

Posted by: brian | Jul 2 2014 0:35 utc | 91

comment picked up from PL's blog:

"Michael Oren was US born and educated in the "best" American schools that raw talent could reach and money could buy. He emigrated to Israel where he bacame a career IDF intelligence officer specializing in analysis of the United States. He is an apologist for the repeated and unproked Iraeli air force and navy attacks on the USS Liberty, a naval vessel engaged in collecting Egyptian military signals off the Sinai coast during the 1967 war. He served as Israeli ambassador to the United States. I was told by a senior CNN figure that Oren gave up his US citizenship before taking up his post as ambassador. That means that he had been a dual national while serving as an IDF intelligence officer.

Yesterday CNN announced Oren on the air by describing him as "CNN's Middle East Analyst."

Does CNN have a balancing Middle East Analyst or is Oren, an obvious Israeli agent, the whole story?

Can CNN still be considered an Americn news source? pl


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oren

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_Nasr

"Oren is not a US citizen anymore. He had to renounce his US citizenship when he represented Israel as its Ambassador in DC ( same thing for the current Israeli Ambassador to the US). So we have an Israeli as the propagandist of Bibi at CNN. The octopus is spreading its ..."

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/07/michel-oren-cnn-analyst-on-the-middle-east.html


Posted by: crone | Jul 2 2014 1:58 utc | 92

"Millions of people are dead/maimed/homeless DIRECTLY because of the influence of Zionism/Israel on the affairs of the ME vis a vis the United States and to say otherwise and lay the blame at policies/politicians that are a century old and/or dead is REALLY letting the still living/breathing war criminals off the hook if we are going to be honest about what you're saying."

it is just that saying it is the influence of Israel that makes America commit these crimes, that people are dying for a Zionist agenda is only at best half true, and seems to ignore America's violent history. The country that did Vietnam needs prodding to kill? I doubt it. The Israelis deserve all the blame for their crimes, but for simpletons like crone who sqwak "Zionist Crimes! Zionist Crimes!" When America is at least half to blame is just giving into an ignorant American exceptionality myth that, despite all the evidence, America is, deep down, really the shining city it has always claimed itself to be.

Not that Israel doesn't commit crimes - it does. Not that it doesn't have massive influence over US foreign policy - it does. But it doesn't do it all. And in no way can it be made solely to blame for the crimes of the US.

Anyway. Crone and scalawag really need to get a room. Last time there was this much body heat between two commenters one was OMFG and the other was OMFG pretending to be someone who gave a shit about anything he said.

JSourtime's war against Bevin is pretty dumb, Bevin is making points, JSnore is merely reiterating his for the thousandth time using more All Caps. Do I read his posts? I scan them, tossing out the all caps, the curse words, the cliches, invented words like "propagandistically", the internet memes and with the sentence that remains I usually think "when this kid turns thirteen, he's going to be interesting."

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 2 2014 2:02 utc | 93

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-destruction-and-political-fragmentation-of-iraq-towards-the-creation-of-a-us-sponsored-islamist-caliphate/5386998 The Engineered Destruction and Political Fragmentation of Iraq. Towards the Creation of a US Sponsored Islamist Caliphate

"The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham: An instrument of the Western Military Alliance

First published by GR on June 14, 2014.

Update July 1, 2014: The creation of the US sponsored Islamist Caliphate has been announced. The Islamic State of Iraq and Al Cham (ISIS) has been replaced by the Islamic State (IS). The Islamic State is not an independent political entity. It is a construct of US intelligence. (M.Ch. July 1, 2014)

The Western media in chorus have described the unfolding conflict in Iraq as a “civil war” opposing the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham against the Armed forces of the Al-Maliki government.

(Also referred to as Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) or Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS))

The conflict is casually described as “sectarian warfare” between Radical Sunni and Shia without addressing “who is behind the various factions”. What is at stake is a carefully staged US military-intelligence agenda.

Known and documented, Al Qaeda affiliated entities have been used by US-NATO in numerous conflicts as “intelligence assets” since the heyday of the Soviet-Afghan war. In Syria, the Al Nusrah and ISIS rebels are the foot-soldiers of the Western military alliance, which oversees and controls the recruitment and training of paramilitary forces.

The Al Qaeda affiliated Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) re-emerged in April 2013 with a different name and acronym, commonly referred to as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). The formation of a terrorist entity encompassing both Iraq and Syria was part of a US intelligence agenda. It responded to geopolitical objectives. It also coincided with the advances of Syrian government forces against the US sponsored insurgency in Syria and the failures of both the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and its various “opposition” terror brigades."

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 3:52 utc | 94

http://www.ivaw.org/blog/ivaw-statement-crisis-iraq IVAW Statement on the Crisis In Iraq

"Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) – an organization comprised of individuals who served or continue to serve in the US Military following September 11, 2001 – calls on Congress, the President, and his administration to reject the use of violence and militarism in response to the current outbreak of violence in Iraq.

Many of our members deployed to Iraq during the recent US occupation. Those of us who were there know first hand that US military solutions in Iraq do not serve the interests of the Iraqi people. We advocate for the self-determination of all people, in this case the people of Iraq. Any solution to this crisis must come from them.

When the United States invaded and occupied Iraq, the formerly secular country was destabilized. The United States and the Department of Defense intentionally created and agitated sectarian divisions that would not have otherwise existed. The result of this is what we see today, and Iraqi civilians are paying for it.

Iraqis have been paying with their lives for this war since March 2003. After 10 years of US occupation they were left with little relief. Their economic infrastructure was destroyed and new work to repair it has been awarded to US corporations and contractors, instead of to Iraqis. Iraqi labor unions face frequent retaliation, and an entire generation of children has been born with severe birth defects in places like Hawija. No one has been held to account. No effort has been made to clean the waste left behind.

When it comes to arming “freedom fighters” the US has a tendency to act as a fair-weather friend; today’s freedom fighter becomes tomorrow’s terrorist and justification to pursue an illegal invasion. Instead of creating more chaos, we should be solving the problems that already exist. Instead of installing another puppet president, the United States should be cleaning up environmental contamination, investigating allegations of torture, and allowing democracy to blossom in both government and labor, without US intervention."

Posted by: scalawag | Jul 2 2014 4:13 utc | 95

Posted by: crone | Jul 1, 2014 6:13:41 PM | 87
Posted by: Demian | Jul 1, 2014 8:22:03 PM | 90

Ever noticed that red rag a torero waves in a bull fight?
Well, you are like the stupid bull going for the rag not for the torero.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 5:31 utc | 96

@scalawag #93:

Everything in that article sounds plausible to me. Do you know if any reports presenting the same account are appearing in the mainstream Russian press (as opposed to Russian language blogs)?

@somebody #95:

Sorry, your comment is not helpful at all, unless you stop with the obfuscation and clearly state who you think is the rag and who is the torero in this case. The only sense I can make of your comment is that you are joining in the chorus denying that the Israel lobby has any significant influence in the US.

Posted by: Demian | Jul 2 2014 5:47 utc | 97

Posted by: Demian | Jul 2, 2014 1:47:44 AM | 96
I thought that was clear
It is the American political elite (1% of 320 million discount kids and babies/ruling elite of 1-2 million) that is sending "your relatives and friends" to the wars (actually since Vietnam they have been careful to avoid that scenario) = the torero
Israel - a country of maybe 2 million Zionists at most (discount kids and babies, Jewish orthodox, dissenters, Palestinians)/with a 1% ruling elite of 20.000 = the red rag
You = the bull

Posted by: somebody | Jul 2 2014 6:14 utc | 98

@ 97

yes, you are singing in the chorus...

Posted by: crone | Jul 2 2014 13:13 utc | 99

Are b and bevin American citizens?If they were,they would see the overwhelming presence of ZioBS foisted on US daily,weekly and yearly.Every major news org are Zionist controlled.Every
TV station and radio are also.We are inflicted daily by crumbbun serial liars spewing more total BS,despite their track record of abysmal failure.Our PBS and Nat.Radio are infested with these monsters of their id,the banksters and big pharma are just parasites eating our young and old in their pursuit of mammon,and all being assisted by our political quislings.
You have no idea of the absolute lockdown of intelligent discourse,which of course is being blocked as it doesn't fit these crazy propaganda fed monsters of reality,from A to Z in America.Sorrentine is right on.And Django,I'll make sure I don't read your posts after that inane comment,you must be a member of the tribe of overweening pride and underdeveloped souls.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 2 2014 14:24 utc | 100

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