Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 22, 2014

Iraq: The U.S. Has No Role In This

The ISIS/former Baathist/Sunni alliance in Iraq is consolidating its position in north-west Iraq. It has captured border post towards Syria and now also towards Jordan. The last item will let red lights flash in Washington and elsewhere.

The ridiculous position of the United States, supporting, arming and training Jihadi insurgents in Syria while seeing them as a danger in Iraq and elsewhere, is coming more to the front. What are we to think of such lunatic headline? Kerry Arrives in Cairo on Trip to Help Form New Iraqi Government

Nobody wants Kerry's "help". The threat thereof unites even strong antagonists. Iran as well as the Saudis are against any U.S. intervention or "help" in Iraq. The Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki would probably like some U.S. support for his disintegrating army but will rather go it alone if such support is connected with demands for him to leave his position.

And is Kerry really asking Sisi, the new brutal dictator of Egypt, for support? What could that jailer of a bancrupt nation do? He will neither be for Maliki nor will he support the Jihadists. There is no alternative to those two in sight. Sisi will simply take the bribes Kerry brings in support of Israel and leave it at that.

There is nothing Kerry can do for Iraqis. Unites States policies in the Middle East have run their course. Their impotence was shown through two lost wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its incompetence demonstrated in the contradictoriness of "promoting democracy" on one side while supporting radical religious dictatorships in the Gulf. A step out of that would be an U.S.  alliance with Iran but such a radical policy change would likely be ripped apart within Washington's polical circus.

It is not only in the Middle East where U.S. polices lead to disillusions of allies and to shaking of the head by foes. Consider what even the neoconned Polish Foreign Minister thinks of U.S. "friendship":

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski, generally viewed as a leading ally of the United States in Europe, said in a mysteriously-leaked recording Sunday that the alliance between the two countries is “not worth anything.”

“The Polish-American alliance is not worth anything. It’s even damaging, because it creates a false sense of security in Poland,” Sikorski says on an excerpt of a longer conversation set to be published Monday morning in the magazine Wprost, which is reportedly between Sikorski and former finance minister Jacek Rostowski.
“We are gonna conflict with both Russians and Germans, and we’re going to think that everything is great, because we gave the Americans a blowjob. Suckers. Total suckers,” Sikorski says, according to a translation of the account for BuzzFeed.

The U.S. should stay out of Iraq. Local forces there will battle it out and the sponsors of each side will find their common interest and some agreement. They already agree on one major point. The U.S. has no role in this.

Posted by b on June 22, 2014 at 16:12 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Oh goody, another post for the usual gang to hijack with their ad hominems and conspiracy theories. After reading the comments on the Who "Interferes" In Iraq? thread I think that henceforth I'm going to just read the posting and not bother with the comments. Wading through more than 150 personal attacks coupled with ½ arsed conspiracy theories to get to (if you're lucky) one informative link is a complete waste of time and life's too short. Pity, this used to be a very good site.


Posted by: Dubhaltach | Jun 22 2014 16:33 utc | 1

It still is a good site -- b does awesome work -- but the comments section is a zoo :(

Posted by: Colin | Jun 22 2014 16:41 utc | 2

All these theories(Zionism,NAC,Yinon plan etc.)are well documented,so most of us here believe they are factual,but some people keep trying to impugn the obvious.Must be a national branding thing.
Kerry stopping in Egypt;Are these idiots that tone deaf and stupid,to legitimize this murderous thug with an appearance at this time?Mass death sentencing doesn't scare
US off?
And Israeli killed on border of Golan? by terrorists?That and now disappeared kidnap story;Where is it today?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 22 2014 16:47 utc | 3

another angle to this

In what appeared to be an attempt to put pressure on Washington, Egyptian officials and pro-government news media have in recent months amplified the hype over a potential Egypt-Russia arms deal, spurring speculation in Cairo that Russian arms could replace U.S. weapons if Washington continues the hold-up.
Both American and Russian analyst have said that’s unlikely — if only because Sissi’s government does not have the cash to pay for the shift.
Feb, 2013
Iraq to go ahead with 4 Billion Russian arms deal
Feb, 2014
Iraq signs deal to buy arms from Iran
Under pressure Iraq denies Iran Arms Deals
May, 2014
US plans nearly 1 Billion arms deal with Iraq
June, 2014
The Kremlin and the Kingdom - Contradictory Signals
Thus, just as the poor state of Saudi-Russian relations will not prevent Riyadh from buying Russian arms for Cairo, even large-scale Saudi purchases of Russian arms for Egypt will not lead to any appreciable improvement in ties between Moscow and Riyadh.
Also read somewhere, fits in here, continous Middle East conflict means it is an ideal testing ground for weapons systems and warfare techniques.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 16:56 utc | 4

@3 "All these theories(Zionism,NAC,Yinon plan etc.)are well documented,so most of us here believe they are factual,but some people keep trying to impugn the obvious."

They aren't theories they are facts. Whether they make for effective strategy is debatable.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 17:03 utc | 5

somebody, the "ideal testing ground" was a preferred argument of the Pentagon in 1991 to justify Bush senior war on Iraq. It was "discarded" after that short war - I think because it was too damned honest.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 17:13 utc | 6

The Polish Foreign Minister quote is a classic. The neoliberalcon alternate reality has collapsed and the Obama Presidency is in tatters. Someone high up in the US government must have told the Poles that if Russia invades Eastern Ukraine NATO would not counter invade Western Ukraine; thus, his rant. Russia knows this and will invade shortly unless the Ukraine cease fall actually starts. NATO will do nothing except sanctions and we may avoid WWIII.

Iraq is a disaster. Iran has told the USA to leave. Once the Shiite Militias realize that they are not going to get American Close Air Support; any Americans left in Iraq who the militias run across will be shot instead of being beheaded by ISIS.

Note: I am only commenting because this post has not yet been bullied into a bar fight.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Jun 22 2014 17:15 utc | 7

Boy, this piece from the Guardian slams home b's comment about Sisi.
Egypt’s hidden prison: ‘disappeared’ face torture in Azouli military jailGuardian interviews with former detainees reveal up to 400 Egyptians being held without judicial oversight amid wider crackdown on human rights

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 17:18 utc | 8

@8 Kerry just gave Sisi a bunch of money. So that problem's fixed.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 17:25 utc | 9

“We are gonna conflict with both Russians and Germans, and we’re going to think that everything is great, because we gave the Americans a blowjob. Suckers. Total suckers”

Damn. What an honest description coming from neocon, now I have seen everything.

P.S. An idea of US having nothing to do with their and puppets created jihadis terrorizing Iraq is pure nonsense, and the fact its perfectly in-tune with US geopolitical goals and history, is of course, all coincidence. /sarcasm

Posted by: Harry | Jun 22 2014 17:28 utc | 10

Excellent post, b. Apart from the thrilling content, I'm awarding you the HW Blue Ribbon for most-improved talent in English - for contradictoriness - a word worth more than a thousand pictures, and a million Full Spectrum Dumbinences.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 22 2014 17:32 utc | 11

I was sort of half asleep, but BBC overnight broadcast here in the NYC metro area seemed to focus on the contradictions inherent in the US approach to Syria and Iraq. Did anyone catch that report?

Also, according to an article on FAIR, Chelsea Manning of the State Dept. leaks fame and now long jail term, wrote that when he was in Iraq his higher ups told him to not worry about the Maliki government's spying on Sunnis and arrests/incarcerations with no due process. It was all OK with the US back then. Indeed, the US forces and government assisted Maliki in these actions.

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 22 2014 17:36 utc | 12

@10 where it goes pear-shaped is when the puppets get too successful. What happens if the jihadis take a run at Kuwait or Saud? How about if the new ISIS state gets a nuke or two?

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 17:36 utc | 13

If ISIS wants me to take it seriously, it needs to set it sights on Dubai and tear that abominable monstrosity to the ground. But that won't happen. It's far easier to ravage the Small People because, well, because that's what cowards do. If New York City and the Twin Towers were symbolic, what the hell would these contradictory Jihadists call Dubai and its Burj Khalifa?

Come on, pussies, show us what you're made of. Dubai taunts your hypocrisy. Do you have the strength of your portended conviction, or are you yet another trojan horse masquerading as Jihadist rebels? I'm betting the latter, and everyone has a piece when it suits their purposes. Dubai, for now, will stand — on its mountain of debt called credit and this scumbag's head, unfortunately, will remain on his shoulders — for now.

Big Head Alert — It Will Take Several Chops

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 22 2014 17:44 utc | 14

Blowjob and Suckers? That's what I call an answer to Victoria Nudelman!
And: Kerry - Sisi - Hitlary - Maliki - Bibi - what's the difference?
Hail to the Ketchup/Money/Oil - Kings!
Manning, Assange, Snowden - you're not forgotten!

Posted by: slirs | Jun 22 2014 17:47 utc | 15

Posted by: Harry | Jun 22, 2014 1:28:52 PM | 10

You posted essentially what I was going to post.

The ISIS terrorists are a western proxy army (mainly working for Israeli interests through the USA and their Gulf colonies). If the west stopped supporting their ISIS terrorists, Iraq wouldn't be having these problems. It's very simple.

Sikorski's comment about subservience to the Americans is interesting. A neo-con not wanting to be part of the American "exceptional" dream is unusual. A sign that things may not be so cosy between the fascists of "New Europe" and their American sponsors. Or, perhaps, he's just personally grown tired of sucking American ding dongs?

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 17:48 utc | 16

@14 Dubai will be in their sights. Check out the Abbasid Caliphate.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 17:49 utc | 17

Harry @ #10,

I suspect that Sikorski, up-and-coming pet-Polish darling of the US Neocons and R2Pers, while uttering salient basic truths in a somewhat disingenuously contextualized way, is mainly trashing current US policy as part of the broader Neocon campaign to set the stage and assure their triumphant return to 'official' control of US defense, security, intel, and foreign policy affairs come the 2016 US elections. I very much doubt Princess Nuland and the rest of the ghouls have any problem with these remarks of his being made public. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the 'leak' was intentional.

Posted by: Stephen J | Jun 22 2014 17:51 utc | 18

Just watched a Reuters video that said "official estimates of Shia volunteers is 2 million".

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 17:51 utc | 19

OT, but RT is showing an excellent ww2 documentary right now.

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 22 2014 17:54 utc | 20

could not agree more b., US SHOULD stay out of Iraq. Question is WILL they?

Putin has offered to aid Maliki... will be interesting to watch events unfold ~ from afar, that is. If you're in Iraq, it is going to be same ol' same ol' - slaughter of people.

Appears the dying empire is choosing the 'Samson' option.

Posted by: crone | Jun 22 2014 17:54 utc | 21

Posted by: jawbone | Jun 22, 2014 1:36:07 PM | 12
Maliki more or less took over from where the US left

James Steele - Americas Mystery Man in Iraq
Guardian documentary, connects Shiite death squads directly to Petraeus

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 17:55 utc | 22

Maybe to lead these zombies into trynig to attack Kuwait or KSA is what is wanted, because the economic crisis in the US and Europe is so bad that "they need a good war".

Posted by: Mina | Jun 22 2014 18:02 utc | 23

Okie farmer @ "Just watched a Reuters video that said "official estimates of Shia volunteers is 2 million". The Shia take their shrouds into battle, I suspect most of the Sunni in Iraq will side with them, they will not need the help of the "indispensable and exceptional" nation, so at least the wedding party's will be safe.

Posted by: harry law | Jun 22 2014 18:18 utc | 24

"They aren't theories they are facts. Whether they make for effective strategy is debatable."

Netanyahu on Meet the Press today essentially ignored the ISIS phenomenon in fearmongering about America making sure Iran
doesn't get the bomb.
This tells you Israel still regards the Moscow-Damascus-Hezbollah-Baghdad-Tehran axis as more of a threat than militant Sunni jihadists.
But it also tell you American foreign policy hasn't been effective. If it had been, the Iraq War would not have resulted in Iranian victory and Amer-Israeli defeat. Indeed, an easy triumph in Iraq would have tempted the US to turn the screws on Iran big time by 2004-5.

Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 22 2014 18:18 utc | 25

Well said. I'd like to add that the global monopoly finance regime presently in power in the capitalist west, is running into the end of its road and its plan. They planned to rely (throughout a "new American century") on neocolonialism. But relentlessly extracted raw materials, and rapaciously exploited workers of "the developing world", and keeping a boot on the neck of workers at home, requires constant application of military/police force. They are faced with the limits of their power pretty quickly. Its 2014 an the "new American century" looks like its over. They can still take down everyone else with them. The posture towards Russia and China (but especially Russia) is a clear reminder of that.

Posted by: Marc | Jun 22 2014 18:19 utc | 26

No, I think it is Sikorski's American wife that gave him the blowjob. This leak may be bad for marital affairs!

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 22 2014 18:23 utc | 27

from Press TV:

The commander of Iran's Basij Force says the US government is using Takfiri militants in Iraq as a means to cause division in the Middle East region.

“The terrorist and anti-Islamic ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) is the US’s instrument for sowing discord among Muslims in the region,” Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Naqdi said on Sunday.

He said the United States and Israeli regime seek to use “fanatics and anti-Islamic groups” to “damage” the Islamic community.

Naqdi said the US resorts to “terrorist and anti-human operations by its mercenaries” anywhere it is defeated by a nations’ willpower.

“The ongoing upheaval and events in Iraq are indicative of the failure of the US’s meddlesome policies in Iraq,” said Naqdi.

The ISIL terrorists have overrun most of one province and parts of three others north of Baghdad.

The terrorists also captured four cities as well as a border crossing with Syria during Friday and Saturday clashes in Anbar Province.

On Saturday, a military parade was held in Baghdad in solidarity with the Iraqi army, which is engaged in heavy fighting against the terrorist group, the ISIL. The parade was called by senior Iraqi cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Days ago, Iraq’s top Shia cleric, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, called for the people to join the battle against the terrorists and defend the country. Iraqi media say more than two million people have so far voiced their readiness to join the fight.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has repeatedly blamed Saudi Arabia and Qatar for the security crisis and growing terrorism in his country, and denounced the Al Saud regime as a major supporter of global terrorism.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 18:25 utc | 28

Hear, hear! The glomofinregime, or the MIC running wild.
And their posture towards their own people is a clear reminder as well.
Watch out! - there's more to come..."if you have propagandist or inflammatory content there will be a search (operation)" - check Ramallah RT raid.

Posted by: slirs | Jun 22 2014 18:37 utc | 29

Oh great, just great... just pop in and give a mass executioner over half a billion in cash and weapons... all whilst asking for "support". The hangman and the red mister have lunch. And people still argue over stupid or evil? *spit*

Posted by: Eureka Springs | Jun 22 2014 18:59 utc | 30

Al Jazeera America has gone rogue :-))

Of course both regimes are beset by internal divisions between more "liberalizing" urban middle-class elements and advocates of a strict conservative version of traditional Islam. But the threat that ISIL represents to both groups in both countries could lead them to favor quieting down other kinds of struggles. There are presently such struggles between various non-ISIL forces going on in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen and elsewhere.

There are in addition other elements pushing towards this kind of reconciliation. Both regimes share a dismay about the uncertain but continuing interventions of the United States and European countries in their region. The Saudis have lost faith in the reliability of past alliances, and are coming closer to the Iranian view that the western world should allow the regional forces to settle their own differences. Both regimes are also unhappy about the constant and somewhat unpredictable role of Qatar in the region. And both regimes are unhappy at the inability to move forward with the creation of a meaningful Palestinian state. Both regimes cast a wary eye on the secular military regime now established in Egypt. And finally both regimes want to see some kind of political resolution of the conflicts in Afghanistan.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 19:01 utc | 31

This link has a nice video, interviewing several well informed spokemen, who lay out, beginning with Afganistan to the present day, how US got itself into the conflicted shape it's in the Middle East.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 19:03 utc | 32

nice post b. thanks.

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2014 19:04 utc | 33

somebody, imo you left out a more important quote,
The fundamental issue that has pushed the public struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran has been a competition for the dominant geopolitical role in the region. What could change this now is precisely the rise of ISIL, which represents a grave menace for both states. The one common interest of the regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran is their need for relative stability within their states and within the region as a whole.

This sounds like propaganda to me. Does al Jazeera not know that ISIL is a funded entity of KSA, trained by CIA in Jordan?

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 19:19 utc | 34

June 22th IRAQ SITREP by Mindfriedo

Chronicle of events in Iraq.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 19:23 utc | 35

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22, 2014 3:19:59 PM | 34

ISIL is considered a terrorist organisation by KSA

When clerics have political power you have to control the clerics to be safe. A takfiri group can declare anybody else apostate, including Saudi rulers.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 19:48 utc | 36

A takfiri group can declare anybody else apostate, including Saudi rulers.

How about the Kremlin — have the takfiris declared it an apostate? If not, they're not playing fair, are they?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 22 2014 19:54 utc | 37

The commander of Iran's Basij Force says the US government is using Takfiri militants in Iraq as a means to cause division in the Middle East region.

Oh, well, if the commander says so then it must be so. I'll wait to hear what EF Hutton says, because when EF Hutton talks, people listen.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 22 2014 19:58 utc | 38

playing fair? haha...

[edited - b]

Posted by: john | Jun 22 2014 20:02 utc | 39

@39 Cold has these old fashioned concepts. I bet he was shocked by the abuse at Abu Ghraib.

Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2014 20:07 utc | 40

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 22, 2014 3:54:37 PM | 37
To clarify - a takfiri group can call any other takfiri group apostate.
I would keep an open mind on who is in control of ISIS if at all.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 20:12 utc | 41

With the ISIS gains in Western Iraq and the border to Syria closed, Juan Cole points out that Iranian materiel support route for Hizbullah has now been effectively cut off - a major plus for the Zios.

Has this been the Big Picture reason for the US inaction?

Posted by: chet380 | Jun 22 2014 20:14 utc | 42

Posted by: chet380 | Jun 22, 2014 4:14:29 PM | 42
Teheran has Damascus and Beirut airports.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 20:17 utc | 43

Kerry: US ‘not responsible’ for crisis in Iraq, Libya

Cant this horsefaced man just shut it?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 22 2014 20:25 utc | 44

john, your ha ha fucked up this tread.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22 2014 20:26 utc | 45

I would keep an open mind on who is in control of ISIS if at all.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22, 2014 4:12:03 PM | 41

I am — believe me. Jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. Some of the far "Right" sites are reporting the judge who sentenced Saddam to death has been captured and executed. I think it's malicious rumor, but if true, why would America want to execute the judge who did their bidding and sentenced Saddam to death? It doesn't add up. So much doesn't add up. I'm with b though. The U.S. should stay the hell away. Let RIC (Russia, Iran and China) play umpire.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 22 2014 20:34 utc | 46

Saudi Arabia - al Arabya - and the Iraq government accuse Baath

Top ISIS leaders revealed

The Independent thinks Iran will let Maliki go.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 20:46 utc | 47

Syria jihadists now using Humvees seized in Iraq

"Beirut (AFP) - Jihadists fighting in Syria's war put to use for the first time on Sunday American-made Humvees that they seized during a lightning offensive in Iraq this month, a monitor said.

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIL, used the armoured vehicles to capture the villages of Eksar and Maalal in Aleppo province, which borders Turkey, said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights."

Yes, "captured", sure they were. Convenient way for the west to supply their terrorist cannibals in Syria for the Israeli war effort there. It becomes more obvious with each passing day that these ISIS terrorists are simply an extension of the west's war (for Israel) against Syria.

Posted by: john | Jun 22, 2014 4:02:02 PM | 39

Bad enough you feed the troll, but you also helped it out by screwing up the board for every one else with your haha... childishness.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 22 2014 20:56 utc | 48

hey, okie farmer, whaddya say we all cut it short this time around?

Posted by: john | Jun 22 2014 20:57 utc | 49

Posted by: john | Jun 22, 2014 4:57:58 PM | 49
you split the screen for most of us by producing one long word without line-break.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 21:02 utc | 50

@john #49:

whaddya say you stop fucking up threads?

Posted by: Demian | Jun 22 2014 21:05 utc | 51

@fuckwit Demian:

this is the first one i ever fucked up.

Posted by: john | Jun 22 2014 21:12 utc | 52

F'n LOL!!

For all the Ineptitudes out there - how moronic does this crap have to get before you lot stop ignoring reality

Someone predicted a few days ago that ISIS and the Syrian Gov would be tied together by the Empire's propagandists and sure enough here they are

One of the Empires propagandists here at MOA posted this Imperial Propaganda at Jun 22, 2014 4:46:21 PM | 47

Top ISIS leaders revealed

    Recent reports have also established links between ISIS and the Syrian regime.

According to documents revealed by the Syrian National Coalition,
several field commanders of the al-Qaeda affiliate were former military or intelligence officers of the Syrian army.

These commanders have been coordinating military operations with the Assad’s forces,
providing them with information about rebel fighters and facilitating the recapture of areas previously
controlled by the rebel Free Syrian Army.

Of course the Empire's propagandists didn't actually reveal ISIS's Top commanders,
which is why the resident propagandist here linked to that piece,
because OF COURSE, they made no mention at all of the Empire's agent
that was given all the Humvees and Cash by the US in Mosul.
Mr Tarkhan Batirashvili a.k.a. Umar al Shishani

The resident propagandist OF COURSE neglected to mention any of this,
when he linked this propaganda @47

Posted by: IneptitudeMyArse | Jun 22 2014 21:38 utc | 53

If it didn't involve megadeath it would be quite funny. Massive mic schemes for years and springs elaborate plan at opportune time. Then watches it all get trashed in a slow mincer by enlightened untermensh.

Posted by: bridger | Jun 22 2014 21:52 utc | 54

Posted by: IneptitudeMyArse | Jun 22, 2014 5:38:06 PM | 53

Do you think it is likely a Georgian has a real leadership role in an Iraqi/Syrian enterprise?
Is his Arabic good enough?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 21:56 utc | 55

I think it likely that the Empire's agent is only ONE of many

and I think it likely that ISIS is riddled with the Empire's agents,

AND I think it very likely that the higher one goes the more likey one is to encounter agents of the empire

cos that's how it's done

And I think it likely that Al-Baghdadi, the alleged ringleader,
is not actually a person, but is in fact a completely fictitious character

You of course think none of these things, but then you're a complete lying knobhead, as we all know by now ;-)

Posted by: IneptitudeMyArse | Jun 22 2014 22:03 utc | 56

I recommend reading Pepe Escobars "Burn, Men in Black, burn" in OEN.

Posted by: slirs | Jun 22 2014 22:06 utc | 57

Posted by: IneptitudeMyArse | Jun 22, 2014 6:03:31 PM | 56

I am keeping an open mind.
AND I think it very likely that the higher one goes the more likey one is to encounter agents of the empire,
then surely any empire can run such an organisation, maybe even any state security service or even non state security service.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 22:07 utc | 58

@ 58 "I am keeping an open mind."

More like a sieve...

Posted by: crone | Jun 22 2014 22:25 utc | 59

funny though, how you completely neglected to mention the Anti-Assad propaganda when you posted that bullshit @47

Some might put it down to forgetfulness, but the more observant here know you for what you really are

Posted by: @ the Propagandist | Jun 22 2014 22:25 utc | 60

sub head on the story the idiot propagandist linked to @55
"Tarkhan Batirashvili, Ethnic Chechen, Leads Group Deeply at Odds with Western-Backed Rebels in Syria"

No mention at all of Mr Batirashvili in the propagandist bullshit propaganda @47

Posted by: @ the Propagandist | Jun 22 2014 22:29 utc | 61

'And is Kerry really asking Sisi, the new brutal dictator of Egypt, for support?'

lets take alook at Sisi
1. it was Sisi and the egypt army who prevente Morsi using the army to attack syria

'Morsi’s call for Holy War against Assad came just three days after US Secretary of State John Kerry, at a meeting of the Principals’ Committee of the US Government, tried to ram through an immediate bombing campaign against Damascus, but had to settle for the option of arming the Syrian terrorist opposition, leading many observers to conclude that the Egyptian president was acting as part of a US anti-Syrian strategy.

June 15: Morsi Breaks Diplomatic Relations with Damascus

The beginning of the end for Egypt’s first elected president came in mid-June, when he attended a militant Islamist conference “in support of the Syrian uprising” at a 20,000-seat indoor stadium in Cairo. As the packed hall chanted and applauded deliriously, Morsi announced: “We have decided to close down the Syrian Embassy in Cairo. The Egyptian envoy in Damascus will also be withdrawn. The people of Egypt and its army will not leave Syrians until their rights are granted and the new elected leadership is chosen.”


2.president Assad was happy with Sisi
keep in mind this is Huff post, US media ,

' Syria's embattled president on Wednesday praised Egypt's protests against their leader and said his overthrow by the military means the end of "political Islam."

President Bashar Assad, who is seeking to crush a revolt against his own rule, said Egyptians have discovered the "lies" of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Assad was not seeking to crush a revolt against his rule...but the US media finds it hard to tell the truth..,.and only ever does so inadvertently

so NO Sisi is nota 'brital dictator' : that was morsi

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 22:36 utc | 62

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 22, 2014 1:18:35 PM | 8

the Guardian?

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 22:38 utc | 63

via the Syrian Perspective


Posted by: crone | Jun 22 2014 22:39 utc | 64

Posted by: slirs | Jun 22, 2014 1:47:40 PM | 15

but for Sisi, Syria would now be under egyptian army attack.

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 22:39 utc | 65

if americans ever had the balls to revolt against their leaders misrule, youd see US prisons piling up with the patriots, and we'd be talking about the brutal US dictator

Posted by: brian | Jun 22 2014 22:42 utc | 66

Posted by: @ the Propagandist | Jun 22, 2014 6:29:39 PM | 61

I guess, you are upset.

There is the
case of Algeria.

It is very difficult to detect deception.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22 2014 22:43 utc | 67

not upset at all

just calling it like I see it

I'm not the only one that's noticed what you are -
a class-A bullshit artist, here to purposely mislead

Posted by: @ the Propagandist | Jun 22 2014 22:47 utc | 68

It is very difficult to detect deception.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 22, 2014 6:43:54 PM | 66

Where you are concerned it's actually not that difficult at all

Posted by: @ the Propagandist | Jun 22 2014 22:52 utc | 69

Just to remind the gullible doubting-Thomas fools exactly WHY the Saudis MUST bankroll ISIS on behalf of the Empire

see from 0:46 in this video

Posted by: Network | Jun 22 2014 23:08 utc | 70

Sisi is the least bad leader for Egypt. Authoritarian but secular. In many ways he resembles Bashar Al Assad.
If it wasn't for the venomous USA, Egypt, Syria and Iran would be the best allies

Posted by: virgile | Jun 23 2014 0:14 utc | 71

israel finds excuse to strike Syria: war crimes

Posted by: brian | Jun 23 2014 0:17 utc | 72

The ISIS PR team is mocking the US by using Michelle Obama with a twit-pic of her holding a sigh that reads "#bringback our Humvee", priceless.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jun 23 2014 0:47 utc | 73

Jew-nazi-central attacks Syria openly. Has the God's special goatbuggers declared war of Syria now?

Israel strikes 9 military targets in Syria

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 23 2014 2:02 utc | 74

This from Glen Ford and TRNN:

Posted by: ben | Jun 23 2014 2:56 utc | 75

Posted by: Network | Jun 22, 2014 7:08:50 PM | 69

I do wonder how this Gulf funding works.
Can you order attacks and ISIL gets paid per atrocity video?
Do you put up a collection box in a mosque?
Or is it extortion of local businessess, smuggling and hostage taking.
There was a lot of hostage taking when ISIS/L took over. It is good business.
But whatever the method - the people who pay do not know whom they pay.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 3:07 utc | 76

Why Condemning Israel and the Zionist Lobby is So Important

"War or Peace:

Critical study of the lead up to the US invasion of Iraq, US involvement in providing arms to Israel (cluster bombs, two-ton bunker buster bombs and satellite surveillance intelligence) prior to, during and after Israel's abortive invasion of Lebanon, Washington's backing of the starvation blockade of the Palestinian people and the White House and Congress' demands for sanctions and war against Iran are directly linked to Israeli state policy and its Zionist policy-makers in the Executive branch and US Congress. One needs to look no further than the documents, testimony and reports of AIPAC and the Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations to observe their claims of success in authoring legislation, providing (falsified) intelligence, engaging in espionage (AIPAC) and turning documents over to Israeli intelligence (now dubbed 'free speech' by liberal Zionists).

If, as the overwhelming evidence indicates, the ZPC played a major role in the major wars of our time, wars capable of igniting new armed conflicts, then it ill behooves us to dilute the role of the Zionist/Jewish Lobby in promoting future US wars. Given Israel's militarist-theocratic approach to territorial aggrandizement and its announced plans for future wars with Iran and Syria, and given the fact that the ZPC acts as an unquestioning and highly disciplined transmission belt for the Israeli state, then US citizens opposed to present and future US engagement in Middle East wars must confront the ZPC and its Israeli mentors. Moreover, given the extended links among the Islamic nations, the Israel-ZPC proposed 'new wars' with Iran will result in Global wars. Hence what is at stake in confronting the ZPC are questions which go beyond the Israeli-Palestine peace process, or even regional Middle East conflicts: it involves the big question of World Peace or War."

Bad as zionist influence was 8 years ago when that was written, it's worse now.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 23 2014 3:10 utc | 77

This article is a simple explanation of the position that b takes.
Many empires, including both Rome and, for example, the Ming dynasty in China have
fallen when the mercenaries that they used against their enemies turned against them.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 23 2014 3:23 utc | 78

Well, to follow the "conventional wisdom"(?!) of this thread then I guess we should all be awaiting the next fantastical
physics-defying attack a la the false flag event of 9/11 by the the latest "mercenary" group - that supports Assad now, naturally -
that the US supported by then which turned against them, right?

That's right, boys and girls, the "serious" people on one of the "savviest" geopolitical sites on the Internet has echoed the
calls/predictions of their war criminal leaders and now expect ANOTHER bit of "blowback" to take place b/c those darn crazy fucking jihadists
have just gotten out of control ONCE A-FUCKING-GAIN!!

Wow, so all of you EXPERTS and DEEP THINKERS now have come around to the EXACT SAME POSITION as the
David Cameron and John Kerrys of the world. BRAVO! You're really doing great work! Keep it up!!!

And I guess it's just INCOMPETENCE that has made you smarties start echoing the very same people you claim to be so critically analyzing

Cameron, Kerry and the apartheid genocidal Israelis - as they bomb Syria as we speak - all expect blowback and
so do 9 out or 10 serious people at MOA.

Gee, that's fucking amazing, huh?

And you all are just so fucking clever, huh? And the war criminals are all so inept.

Holy fuck.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 23 2014 3:52 utc | 79

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 22, 2014 11:52:16 PM | 78

Hey, number one job requirement for the AZZ is defend Israeli interests, so, well, naturally they gotta do all that.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 23 2014 4:07 utc | 80

brian 62,
That press tv article was accurate as far as it went.
But what was unmentioned was that Sisi's coup was to
intended to protect Isreal - in the Sinai where Morsi had
allowed MB death squads to operate, and MB support for Hammas
in the Gaza Strip was irritating Bibi no end,
and the fact that KSA could not allow
Qatar to have an MB facilatated victory
in Syria. Rather like, "Fuck Qatar", this is our proxie war
and you're not in it.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2014 4:22 utc | 81

Plus, brian, the US was happy to have Qatar funding MB
proxie jihadists in Syria - US didn't care. But, KSA did.
When the coup came, it showed KSA was more responsive to Israel
than to US. I can't remember when I first understood KSA is Israel's
most important ally - too long ago - but every move KSA makes is approved
by Bibi, Mossad, et al.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2014 4:34 utc | 82

Posted by: JSorrentine | Jun 22, 2014 11:52:16 PM | 78

As has been documented in a London court
the Saudi government blackmailed Tony Blair
with the threat of bomb attacks in London.
They also bribed him.
Algeria reportedly does the same with French politicians.
This will be the tip of the iceberg.
ISIL reportedly has something like 2000+ Jihadis with European and US American passports.
Though some of them will be on a watch list, most of them won't as they simply traveled to Turkey,
went to a recruiting organization
and crossed the border.
Once they entered the European Union at any entry point it is unlikely they have to show their passport again. It is possible to
cross from Turkey to Greece without showing a passport.
They have friends and relatives in Europe.
They can go into sleeper cells, find a job, go to the local mosque.
If we are lucky, Syria/Iraq will be the most exciting time of their youth they will tell their grandchildren about.
Chances are that Syria bullies European countries into cooperating Algerian/Saudi style.
I am not going into the morals of it.
Europe did not confront Turkey on the recruiting charities and might even have supported the recruiting.
But yes, the better they have been trained in Syria and Iraq, the more the threat.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 4:47 utc | 83

Iraq need an Iraqi general Haftar to crush the Sunnis Islamists once for all

Renegade General Khalifa Haftar Launches Offensive in East Libya
Haftar's troops, backed by tanks and rocket launchers, attacked several suspected camps of Islamists
in western areas of Benghazi on Sunday, forcing dozens of families to flee.
War planes could also be heard circling above the city.
Haftar slams Qatar, lauds Egypt

At a news conference held outside Benghazi, Haftar praised Egypt's new president, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi,
as the right man for the job. Egypt has cracked down hard on the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood,
which Haftar on Sunday branded as an “international spy network”.

Haftar also accused Qatar of fueling Libya's chaos.
“There is no doubt Qatar supports the militias in Libya,” he said.

Separately, he told Arabiya television Qatar was hampering the formation
of a national army and police force in Libya.

Posted by: virgile | Jun 23 2014 4:48 utc | 84

Posted by: somebody | June 23, 2014 at 12:47 AM

But yes, you are right, everybody saw this coming and our politicians did not care.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 4:50 utc | 85

Posted by: virgile | Jun 23, 2014 12:48:02 AM | 83

Yes, Haftar seems to be part of the Saudi against Qatar/Turkey/Obama cleaning up drive.
Which makes me wonder if they fund ISIS
or the Baathist Sufi Army

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 4:56 utc | 86

I think KSA has demonstrated to US that they're the "team"
to side with. Having taken down MB in Egypt, now taking down MB in
Libya, creating ISIS for Syria/Iraq - impressive list of accomplishments
in little less than a year. And of course, silent, but fawning approval
in Israel.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2014 5:07 utc | 87

@80 - 86

Are y'all smokin' crack, or what?

Posted by: crone | Jun 23 2014 5:25 utc | 88

bevin, that's a good article by Ford:
Without the jihadists, the imperialists could only bomb Gaddafi and sanction
Assad – but on behalf of whom? An armed “opposition” had to be created on the
ground, which only the Salafists could effectively provide. The wholesale unleashing
of the jihadist dogs of war was a sign of profound imperial weakness in the Arab
world, where the U.S. is hated with a kinetic intensity and the monarchs shiver at
the thought of what their own people would like to do to them – and what the jihadists
will do to them, if the young warriors are not exported and kept busy.

The jihadists cannot be controlled by their imperial enablers – as the U.S. ambassador
to Libya learned, in his last moments – not reliably, in the short term, and not at
all in the long term. The contradictions of the relationship are now acute,
the unraveling has begun, and the U.S. has no substitute for the services the jihadists
provided to Empire.

I agree with the last sentence but dubious about the first. Right after Bandar
was replaced, the interime intelligence chief announced that KSA was going to put
together a "professional fighting force" consisting of "40,000 men", which is what
I assume ISIS is.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2014 5:33 utc | 89

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23, 2014 1:07:12 AM | 86

The KSA / Israel alliance was spinned by Condoleeza Rice
to counter the "Shia crescent"
when the US found that they were outfoxed in Iraq by Iran
and Saudi Arabia threatened to fund Sunni insurgents.
The US Saudi alliance has been very fragile after 9/11 with the Neocon "Shia strategy".
The 2006 Lebanon war was the first attack on the "Shia crescent" to restore "balance".
Saudis are correct to feel threatened by the Iranian Revolution as the ideology is related to the Muslim Brotherhood.
The alliance, engineered by Condoleeza Rice, is very artificial though.
Saudi Arabia has no diplomatic relations with Israel
and are unable to do so without changing their fundamental ideology, whilst Israel, despite Netanyahu's PR campaign,
has no problem cooperating with Iran,
and Iran has no problem with its
comparatively large Jewish community.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 5:57 utc | 90

from the Daily Telegraph in 2006

Any Saudi intervention in Iraq would be fraught with
difficulty because foreign al-Qa'eda fighters loyal to the Saudi-born
Osama bin Laden are dedicated to bringing down the House of Saud.

The abrupt resignation this week of Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi
ambassador to Washington, after just 15 months in the post is believed
to be connected to his opposition to the suggestion that the kingdom might intervene in Iraq.
The kingdom's hardening position is a reaction to what some
Bush administration officials refer to as the "80 per cent solution" in Iraq
— a US state department proposal to abandon moves to woo Iraq's Sunnis,
who make up 20 per cent of Iraq's population of 26 million.
Mr Bush was at the Pentagon yesterday to discuss Iraq with senior generals,
many of whom favour a "surge" in troop numbers in Iraq, particularly in Baghdad.
The president responded coolly to proposals by the independent Iraq Study Group
last week to begin a gradual "draw-down" of US forces. Philip Zelikow,
a senior aide to Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state,
is said to be the author of the "80 per cent" proposal,
which argues that US attempts at reconciliation between Sunnis,
who dominated Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and Shia are too ambitious.
But Miss Rice is understood to oppose the plan and it has met stiff
opposition from Zalmay Khalilzad,
the US ambassador to Baghdad, and military commanders in Iraq.
Miss Rice instead favours the creating of a "Sunni crescent"
in the Middle East based on Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the Gulf
states while building links between moderate Sunni tribal and provincial
leaders in Iraq and Nouri al-Maliki's Shia-led government.
This would isolate Shia-dominated Iran and Sunni-dominated Syria.

Saudi Arabia is particularly concerned about the growth of Iran
and its client Hizbollah, which is also supported by Syria, in Lebanon.
The NeoCons now come out in force that it is all Obama's fault. It is ridiculous.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 6:24 utc | 91

ISIS, the Kurds taking over Kirkuk and the recent "israeli retaliation" look very much like the beginning of seriously "redrawing of the map" to me. Refugees all around and are there any "UN" personel left on the golan?

Posted by: peter radiator | Jun 23 2014 6:26 utc | 92

from wsws:

Democracy and the debacle in Iraq
23 June 2014
Over the past two weeks, the Obama administration and the foreign policy
establishment in the United States have moved rapidly to exploit the
crisis in Iraq to intensify military operations throughout the Middle East.
Hundreds of US military “advisors” are on their way back to Iraq even as
the American ruling class plans air strikes against Syria and maneuvers
aimed at undermining Iran.

The propaganda that emanates from the political establishment, uncritically
reflected in the media, is sickening in its cynicism and hypocrisy. While
divided over tactics in the pursuit of global power, the different factions
of the state and military apparatus are united on at least one issue: they
bear no responsibility for anything.

Obama’s secretary of state, John Kerry, dispatched to the Middle East to plot
with US allies and threaten adversaries, summed up the general sentiment when
he declared at a press conference in Cairo (where he met with US-backed Egyptian
dictator Abdel Fattah al-Sisi): “The United States of America is not responsible
for what happened in Libya, nor is it responsible for what is happening in Iraq today.”

According to Kerry’s interpretation of history, the American military “shed blood
and worked hard for years for the Iraqis to have their own governance.” While the
United States selflessly promoted democracy, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria
“crossed the line from Syria.”

ISIS, Kerry continued, “have attacked communities and they are the ones marching
through to disrupt the ability of Iraq to have the governance it wants.”

As always, American government officials speak as if no one knows anything and they
can peddle blatant lies without consequence. But Kerry’s narrative is contradicted
by facts that have found their way into even the media’s coverage of events.

First, while the US may have been caught off guard by the rapidity with which the
Iraqi state has disintegrated over the past several weeks, it is by no means
unfamiliar with ISIS. The Islamic fundamentalist group has received funding from
the US and its autocratic Gulf allies as part of the imperialist-backed insurgency
against President Bashar al-Assad in Syria. Once again, the United States is
reaping what it has sowed.

Moreover, ISIS’s advance in Iraq is certainly seen by sections of the American
(and Israeli) ruling class as a positive development to the extent that it undermines
the influence Iran exerts over the government of Iraq and its current president,
Nouri al-Maliki.

Despite Kerry’s protestations, it is understood throughout the world that the United
States is principally responsible for the catastrophe that threatens to plunge the
entire region into generalized civil war.

The complete absence of any accountability for the crimes of American imperialism has
been on graphic display over the past week in the political reemergence of former Vice
President Dick Cheney, the criminal mastermind behind the Bush administration’s foreign policy.

Cheney appeared Sunday on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” to agitate for
the reinvasion of Iraq. Criticizing the Obama administration for not moving quickly
enough, Cheney declared, “When we’re arguing over 300 advisers when the request had
been for 20,000 in order to do the job right, I’m not sure we’ve really addressed the problem.”

Cheney added that a “broad strategy” was needed, including “helping the resistance
up in Syria, in [the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria’s] back yard, with training
and weapons and so forth,” and intensifying the military campaign in Pakistan and
Afghanistan. Seeking to deflect suggestions that he had anything to do with the
present crisis, Cheney said, “If we spend our time debating what happened 11 or 12
years ago, we’re going to miss the threat that is growing.”

Nothing testifies so clearly to the dysfunctional state of American democracy
than the fact that Cheney is still paraded before the public as a distinguished
authority on foreign policy. He exemplifies the absence of any real legal or
political accountability for the crimes committed by the ruling oligarchy. Even
in the midst of a major foreign policy disaster, there has been no call for even
the formality of congressional hearings into the history of the US intervention
in Iraq and the so-called “war on terror.”

It should be recalled that in the midst of the Vietnam War, the US Senate Foreign
Relations Committee held a series of hearings between 1966 and 1971, referred to
collectively as the Fulbright hearings. These hearings took testimony from a wide
range of expert witnesses, including prominent opponents of the war. Kerry himself
took part, as a veteran advocating an end to the war. At that point in American
history, there still existed a certain conception that the public had some right
to know how foreign policy was made.

Nothing of that remains today. Foreign policy is carried out exclusively behind
the backs of the people. It is decided by a criminal cabal that operates with
full knowledge that there will be — at least from within the political establishment — no
consequences for its actions. These are the features of a political system thoroughly
corrupted by unrestrained militarism and extreme social inequality.

There is an urgent need for the creation of a new mass movement against imperialism and
war. Such a movement can develop only on the basis of the political mobilization of the
working class. The struggle against the new catastrophes that the ruling class is
planning must develop outside of and in opposition to the Obama administration, the
Democratic and Republican parties, and the political agencies and institutions of the
capitalist state.

A renewed antiwar movement can succeed only to the extent that it is rooted in the
independent interests of the international working class, armed with a socialist
program, with the aim at wrenching power out of the hands of the financial oligarchy
and its cast of political conspirators.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 23 2014 6:33 utc | 93

Apparently Israel and ISIS are now a team, with Israel covering ISIS' back in Syria ... Israeli Air Strikes Pound Multiple Syrian Army Sites.

Posted by: john francis lee | Jun 23 2014 6:50 utc | 94


The Ford article rings true. The House of Saud saw the Shiite crescent stretching from Lebanon through Iraq to Iran and paid to have a Jihadi Army it split apart. Bandar Bush succeeded; too well it turned out for his wellbeing. Israel got the USA to support “moderate” Jihadis to fight Hezbollah in Syria.

The neoliberalcons maneuvered the Poles to start a second front in Ukraine to destabilize Russia. Jihadis and Nazis were the only ones willing to do the fighting. The Paymasters thought they could control the mercenaries but they were delusional. ISIS and Right Sector have gone off on separate rampages doing what they wanted to do all along; burn and kill.

The not so psychotic financiers and politicians threatened with World War III with an escalating civil war next door to Russia are backing down. ISIS is heading south perhaps they will make it to Riyadh to do some serious beheading. Besides Pakistani troops; China and Russia can provide the pilots and planes to bomb the ISIS columns. All the House of Saud needs to do is price oil in Renminbi. As Polish Foreign Minister Sirkorski said; the alliance with the United States is “not worth anything”.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Jun 23 2014 7:11 utc | 95

Sooo... Sikorski, a known US-assett and married to a US-polish Anne Appelbaum, another US-asset writing for Washington Post etc., is supposedly anti-US now? The guy who went to Ukraine to push the Nazis into power?

Not very believable, sorry.

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 23 2014 7:23 utc | 96

Posted by: peter radiator | Jun 23, 2014 2:26:04 AM | 92

Should get interesting. I was under the impression Hezbollah is on the Golan, too.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 7:40 utc | 97

This is the Israeli report - Ynet - don't know if it is true but does not sound as if they are preparing the population for war - they are quoting Syrian sources

Syrian military officials have said that in the past 24 hours their forces attacked terror centers in Ophania village in northern city of Quneitra near the Syrian Golan heights area, SANA news agency reported. According to Syrian government reports, some 40 rebels of Qatari, Jordanian and Saudi Arabia nationalities were killed in the area. Syrian opposition sources reported that in the past day the area has seen intense battles between the sides, and Monday saw an Israeli killed not far from the area along the Israel-Syrian border.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 23 2014 8:26 utc | 98


Golan is syrian land but taken by Israel, not sure how hezbollah could be in the golan too?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 23 2014 8:36 utc | 99

So the concescus amongst the Fake-Left pseudo-intellectual Brain-Trust @ MOA is thatISIS-In-Iraq it's the fault of virtually everyone except the Empire?


Just . . . .WOW

Some bunch of Anti-Imperialists you lot turned out to be ;-) . . . as predicted.

I guess when you convince everyone here to believe what Cameron and Kerry claim to believe then your job will be done, eh?

I hope there a bonus in it for you, bevin. That at least I could respect,

Posted by: LOLSTFU | Jun 23 2014 8:45 utc | 100

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