Ukraine: U.S. Campaign Stuck Without Russian Intervention And German Support
Two days ago a mob, supported by the fascists Right Sektor, killed over 30 federalist Ukrainians in Odessa by pushing them from their camp into a building and then setting fire to it. Those who escaped the massacre, not the perpetrators, were rounded up by police. Today pro-federalism people besieged the police headquarter in Odessa until the police released those it had earlier arrested.
In the east some military and National Guard units under government control were in sporadic fights with federalists but right now the government forces seem to be again in retreat. There were attacks on private bank outlets in the east because the owner of the bank, a well known oligarch, is suspected of financing the fascist Right Sektor paramilitaries.
The U.S. plan for Ukraine seems to be to bait Russia into an occupation. This would destroy EU-Russia relations, embolden NATO and help the U.S. to keep the EU as a secondary partner under its control. There would be lots of economic upsides for the U.S. in such a situation. Selling more arms and increasing energy market shares are only the starters.
There are two reasons to believe that this plan will fail:
First: Russia will not take the bait. The people requesting more local autonomy in Ukraine are perfectly able to take a stand on their own. Should a few die, like in Odessa, even more will rise up. Except for the Right Sektor people now included in the National Guard there are no loyal troops for the Kiev coup government to use against the people. The huge mistake the coup government made, repeating a U.S. mistake made in Iraq, was to dissolve the federal riot police Berkut. Those now unemployed trained fighters, together with experienced former Soviet soldiers, are the military backbone of the federalists. There is therefore no need for Russia to openly intervene. The Kiev coup government is already a dying entity.
Second: Many people in Europe have recognized the nefarious U.S. scheme and are protesting against their politicians' slavishness in following the U.S. lead. The political pressure against Russia bashing is building. Every pro-NATO/anti-Russian report in the media, and there are lots of them, gets trashed in the comment sections. Some of the European elite are openly turning against the U.S. induced anti-Russia propaganda. Even the most staunch transatlantic tabloid in Germany, Bild, today reports (original here) that the CIA and FBI with dozens of agents are running the show in Kiev. The report is based on "German security sources" which lets me believe that the German government is looking for ways to counter Washington's moves. The German Foreign Minister Steinmeier just called (in German) for a second Geneva conference to solve the situation.
Without Russian intervention and without German support the U.S. campaign against Russia is unlikely to reach its secondary target of isolating Russia. The primary target, Sevastopol harbor in Crimea, was already lost when Russia reunified with the island.
What is left to do then for Washington is to create more chaos in Ukraine and to hope that somehow out of total chaos some new chance may arise to stick it to Russia. For lack of real direction that strategy is also unlikely to succeed.
Posted by b on May 4, 2014 at 15:34 UTC | Permalink
« previous page | next page »http://cannonfire.blogspot.ca/
Infamy: Why is our media lying? - good article at cannonfire on the ukraine situation..
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 4:11 utc | 102
@101 - Phantastron
i was thinking about the full time mantra of 'sanctions' and what it means psychologically to the average person who doesn't spend any time examining the events going on in ukraine..
anyone taking a superficial glance at the media will automatically conclude russia did something bad.. this is the reason we hear about 'sanctions' 24/7. the truth of the matter is exactly the opposite, but the important message is to keep on drilling home to ordinary people who the bad guys are..
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 4:21 utc | 103
Posted by: Grieved | May 5, 2014 12:10:46 AM | 100
nothing new...this is the Hitler Biglie method...now standard procedure in the MSM
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 4:23 utc | 104
the death toll in Odessa has been put at about 116 in some tweets ive seen...but this figure is being hidden from the world
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 4:24 utc | 105
Infamy: Why is our media lying? - good article at cannonfire on the ukraine situation..
Posted by: james | May 5, 2014 12:11:35 AM | 102
what else are they good at?
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 4:25 utc | 106
In the previous 100 comments 17 of them were posted by "Brian". Does any one have any idea what he is trying to say? I usually skip "Brian" since it is difficult to know what he is trying to say. But this thread it is hard to avoid his comments. Yet I still do not know what he is trying to say.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 5 2014 4:25 utc | 107
@106
Distraction.
Even if they told truths, they would be distractions from other truths.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 5 2014 4:28 utc | 108
107
You know theres this little thing called 'reading', and most of his comments are replies to other people so thats part of why you dont understand what hes saying.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 5 2014 4:29 utc | 109
@ToivoS #107:
What bothers me is multi-page posts that are simply copied from something you can read by following a link. brian's posts are usually very short, so I see no harm in them.
RT on the provocation in Odessa
Someone badly wants civil war.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 4:44 utc | 111
@106 - brian - did you read the article? i don't understand your question which appears directed at me.
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 4:57 utc | 112
Posted by: Phantastron | May 5, 2014 12:11:20 AM | 101
"It is noteworthy that the Western MSM has covered the willful murder of 40plus people in such a low key and convoluted fashion that the average reader is hardly aware that anyone was murdered in Odessa on Friday. Or if they are aware they believe that the deaths were caused by the "rebels" or "terrorists" or Russian secret agents."
This western engineered massacre in Odessa was done to try and entice a Russian invasion (similar tactic to the Georgian massacre in South Ossetia in 2008). As the goal is Russian intervention, the west doesn't want the trigger to be highlighted so they can claim the Russians invaded out of sheer malice to acquire territory. Exactly as these war criminals spun the Russian defense of South Ossetia where they ignored the western terrorist invasion of that country and spun it as a Russian invasion of Georgia. This is the same crap from the subhuman western ghouls, who are the most diabolical, blood sucking group of war criminals to have probably ever existed on this planet.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 5:02 utc | 113
Posted by: ToivoS | May 5, 2014 12:25:38 AM | 107
"In the previous 100 comments 17 of them were posted by "Brian". Does any one have any idea what he is trying to say? I usually skip "Brian" since it is difficult to know what he is trying to say. But this thread it is hard to avoid his comments. Yet I still do not know what he is trying to say."
It looks like you're being TOO effective, Brian, in getting information posted that debunks the west's disinformation. Expect the "usual crew" to be along to demand you be banned and accuse you of being an anti-semitic nazi.
Congratulations. ;)
Thanks for, and please do keep up the great work.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 5:08 utc | 114
@somebody #111:
Thanks for the link. So it emerges that the pro-regime demonstrators were provoked to start killing anti-fascist demonstrators by some third, covert group. I will wait and see how this account plays in reliable places (Russian media and blogs, in this case) during the next few days.
As for your conclusion that someone "wants a civil war", I think that that's a bit of a leap. I think that most informed observers agree that what USG wants is a Russian military intervention. Civil war would be the fallback plan. It is like Iraq: I think the original neocon plan really was to turn Iraq into an Arab Germany or Japan, a modern, "democratic" vassal state of the Empire. Sectarian strife and a failed state is an acceptable outcome for the neocons, but a worse one.
As for the Kiev regime itself, the reason it launched this act of terror might have been that it thought that the terror might weaken the will of the anti-fascist resistance. You never know with these people: no rational person would ever be a Ukrainian nationalist. (Even Heidegger was seduced by Nazism for a while. Could a Heidegger be seduced by Ukrainian nationalism, even for a moment? Of course not. Any reasonably educated person knows that there is no such thing as a Ukrainian nation, as Helmut Schmidt, among others, has pointed out.)
Link to Russia's Public Chamber to sue Kiev in EHRC for Odessa tragedy
Russia's Public Chamber deputies are planning to file a lawsuit with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), demanding that the Kiev government be called to account for the mass murder of civilians in Odessa and in other Ukrainian cities, Public Chamber deputy Georgy Fyodorov told the Izvestia newspaper.The filing of a suit with the ECHR is being initiated by both the Public Chamber members and Internet users. In the Internet, a group of citizens has already launched a mass campaign for the collection of signatures to the petition to the European Court. The activists are calling on the ECHR to call Ukraine's authorities to account for crimes against their own people.
The text of the petition reads as follows: "As of now, the rights of a large proportion of citizens in the State of Ukraine are not upheld by anyone inside that state! People are kidnapped and taken away to an unknown destination without any chages brought against them. They are robbed and killed with impunity. Agencies that are responsible for the maintenance of law and order keep inactive. The self-styled government is stirring up and contributes to fomenting interethnic hatred and genocide against part of its own people!"
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 6:25 utc | 116
Posted by: Demian | May 5, 2014 1:18:45 AM | 115
Well you somehow destroy your argument by claiming the right of being a people for some but not for others - another ingredient for civil wars. Because who is to decide but the peoples themselves?
I think the original neocon plan really was to turn Iraq into an Arab Germany or Japan, a modern, "democratic" vassal state of the Empire. Sectarian strife and a failed state is an acceptable outcome for the neocons, but a worse one.
One is the sell, the other is reality. Or how would you explain the track record of neocons?
There are more than four or five players in Ukraine with sometimes converging, sometimes diverging interest.
Both incidents of shooting at both parties point to Andriy Parubiy - as he was the one who put the fighters hidden in a football crowd in place (and set up the victims in the case of Euromaidan). He is an Orange revolution veteran and bound to work for the CIA.
The police in Odessa now officially works with fascist death squads. That way people automatically begin to organise to "protect themselves" with defense and offense getting easily blurred.
It is a classic destabilization technique tried in Latin America, Iraq, Libya, Syria ... now Ukraine.
The people planning this are strategically challenged anyway, as all this will lead to is OSCE in Ukraine - with Russian membership (see Yougoslavia), ie Russian troops officially in Ukraine.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 6:36 utc | 117
+117 this here is - the story of Russian peacekeeping in Georgia - and this is what it will come down to in Ukraine.
So when Kyiv heats things up in Odessa they will get Russian troops there.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 6:56 utc | 118
RT has picked up the news about the western agents with red armbands.
Link to Provocation gone wrong: Murky forces instigating Odessa violence?
"Nationalists made their way towards the center of the city chanting “Glory to Ukraine” and “Death to enemies,” as well as “Knife the Moskals (derogatory for Russians).” Some people in the group wore ultra-nationalist movement insignia. They were armed with chains and bats, and carried shields.
The violence started when the pro-Kiev crowd was met by what looked like anti-government activists. They were wearing St. George ribbons – identifying them as pro-autonomy – and red bands around their sleeves. Some of the riot police officers present at the scene were wearing the same red bands around their sleeves.
Then the visibly smaller group of alleged anti-Kiev activists started to attack the march, apparently provoking the demonstrators. Footage then shows a smaller group men wearing red bands luring the pro-Kiev crowd into a different direction.
At some point, the police line opened up to let the men wearing red bands through and closed back up again. A video then shows a man standing behind the police lines shooting at the pro-Kiev crowd.
The provocations succeeded in triggering clashes, as both sides began to throw stones, and shots were heard."
RT didn't talk about the red armband agents spotted inside and on the roof of the Union trade building, or the murders by these freaks inside, but the news of their role is getting out now.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 6:58 utc | 119
@somebody #117:
you somehow destroy your argument by claiming the right of being a people for some but not for others
I am not going to try to convince you of anything; I'm just going to tell you where I'm coming from. This is not completely off-topic, I think, because it may shed some light for some people on how Russians think.
My parents were Russians who grew up in Latvia. This means that they existed in an environment with three cultures: German, Russian, and Latvian. Since German and Russian are both world languages and cultures, whereas the Latvian language would be dead by now if a German pastor had not written down Latvian folk tales in Latvian (thus interfering with the native culture, which would have died out if left to its own devices), obviously my parents, as Russians, learned German, but could not take anything Latvian seriously. My father was forced to leave his Russian school and enter a Latvian school, by the way, by the fascist nationalist Latvian "government", because his mother was Latvian; we are seeing the same fascist nationalist policies in the Ukraine today.
The question you pose, what nationality has a right to exist, is not that hard to solve. You look at Europe, and you balance the advantages produced by linguistic diversity against the costs of creating a Babel scenario. There is no doubt as to what the principal languages of Europe are: German, French, English, Russian, Spanish, and Italian. After that, which other languages should be allowed to persist in the best of all possible worlds is a matter of fine tuning.
Posted by: Demian | May 5, 2014 3:12:52 AM | 120
People decide that for themselves. Russians (and Germans, and US Americans) pay for their laziness in learning other people's languages and respecting their world view by being hated - it is as simple as that.
It is not just a country problem - you get it in international companies. Officially the language is English, but the real decisions are taken in informal meetings in the mother tongue of the people on top.
It is pretty ridiculous when you consider how a country like India copes with many languages
There are 15 languages on a Rupee banknote.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 7:32 utc | 121
Admittedly I'm exploiting a tragedy, but for the cause the dead fought for:
CNN insults the burned to death protesters by summarizing them as 'pro-Russian'. They were in fact pro-federalists, who wanted a referendum on turning Ukraine into a federalist republic with greater powers for the regions. Like Switzerland.
Under this crappy article: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/
The question you pose, what nationality has a right to exist, is not that hard to solve. You look at Europe, and you balance the advantages produced by linguistic diversity against the costs of creating a Babel scenario. There is no doubt as to what the principal languages of Europe are: German, French, English, Russian, Spanish, and Italian. After that, which other languages should be allowed to persist in the best of all possible worlds is a matter of fine tuning.Posted by: Demian | May 5, 2014 3:12:52 AM | 120
The above is nonsense and you're in denial. There is no reason at all that the European languages other than those six should disappear. It is wise and best for children that they are educated in and become fluent in their first language, their mother tongue. That mother tongue can be Icelandic for all any other country cares, it's irrelevant. And English then is more or less the world's second language, for those who want to travel and do business with the rest of the world. The preceding works well and is already the de facto end game. Preserves every mother tongue and is efficient for doing international business.
Children are educationally disadvantaged when they are prevented from learning in their mother tongue and forced to learn in a non-native language. That is one of the legitimate fears of the protesters in eastern and southern Ukraine.
122) I guess "anti-Kyiv" would be correct, also "anti-fascist", no one knows what people stand for except that they oppose the "Kyiv government".
Robert Parry: Will Ukraine Be NYT’s Waterloo?
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 7:56 utc | 124
A bit OT, but for anyone interested here's an article about the defence cuts in USG.
http://journal-neo.org/2014/05/05/the-us-defence-cuts-myth-and-reality/
Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 5 2014 8:14 utc | 125
Posted by: somebody | May 5, 2014 3:56:39 AM | 124
what does the Kiev regime stand for? that they oppose
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 8:22 utc | 126
@121
'People decide that for themselves. Russians (and Germans, and US Americans) pay for their laziness in learning other people's languages and respecting their world view by being hated - it is as simple as that.;
so the most loved are those with the most languages! and the rest of us with only 1 are hated....
what shoddy reasoning
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 8:25 utc | 127
@fairleft #123:
Well, that was a rough formulation, and I said that I wasn't intending to convince somebody. (Haha, you can have fun when a user chooses a pronoun as his handle.)
I don't think that what I wrote was nonsense, and I'm certainly not in denial. I can easily revise my position to take your objections into account.
All parents have the right to preserve their mother tongue and to raise their children into that mother tongue. However, since children are not only of interest to their parents, but also to the state which they belong to, which should aim to maintain a well functioning economy, children should also be taught a language which allows them to become productive citizens. In other words, if you are Latino, sure, talk to your baby in Spanish. But if you want your child to fit into the wider American society, you will have no objections to him or her learning English to the same level that he/she knows Spanish.
In countries that formerly were part of the Soviet Union, Russian is the equivalent of English: it is the language that everyone speaks. Thus, when the "Ukrainian government" makes Ukrainian the sole official language, it is in denial of basic linguistic, economic, and political realities. Not I.
To repeat a poll finding that I have mentioned before: 83% of Ukrainians find it easier to use Russian rather than Ukrainian for anything other than talking to their cat or dog. Thus, the Kiev junta hanging on to its position that only Ukrainian should be a language officially recognized by the state is nothing but fascists being fascists.
Posted by: brian | May 5, 2014 4:22:37 AM | 126
what does the Kiev regime stand for? that they oppose
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 8:38 utc | 129
Video-summary of some crimes and some nazis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDOWt9V2bjs#t=751
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 8:58 utc | 130
Posted by: brian | May 5, 2014 4:25:11 AM | 127
I am describing the arrogance of living/working in any region of the world taking your country/culture with you like a snail shell without attempting to understand/respect the local culture or language.
I know this is very hard for any people. But it is the reason colonialism/occupation/global companies do not work. In the end power has to be given to locals, locals have to be integrated into the empire.
The viability of empires/global corporations is decided if they manage this integration - or not. Nationalist language policies exploded the Austrian/Hungarian empire and Western Ukrainian politics share a lot of history with that.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 8:59 utc | 131
The most ridiculous language/culture clash in Europe is in Belgium.
"We won't fall into madness, like Serbia and Croatia," says Jeroen Vermeiren, a Flemish bookseller just outside Brussels. "But it creates great emotions on both sides.""It's surreal, absurd," says Thiéry. "And it's not democratic." He sits at the very heart of the conflict, in the town hall of Linkebeek, a comfortable town that is home to 5,000 and sits astride the city limits. He is a French-speaking Walloon, born and bred in Linkebeek, who has been elected mayor with 66% of the local vote in a town that is 85% francophone.
But Linkebeek is in Flanders, not Brussels. The Flemish interior minister has barred him from being mayor because he sends out election literature in French to French-speakers, and not in Dutch, as required.
Linkebeek's municipal life is consumed by petty challenges, demonstrations and taunts. Separatists deface bilingual street names. The language police show up at monthly meetings of the local council. If the proceedings are conducted in French – 13 of the 15 councillors are French-speakers – the session is deemed invalid.
At the local primary school, French-speaking kids are downstairs, Dutch-speakers upstairs. The curriculums are different. The public library is denied Flemish government funding unless 55% of the books are in Dutch.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 9:05 utc | 132
What does the red arm symbol say?
What does the organge symbol say?
Some people wearing both.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 9:27 utc | 133
someone tell YAHOO news...Crimea is part of Russia: http://news.yahoo.com/russian-bombers-fighter-jets-seen-over-crimea-143320553.html;_ylt=AwrTWVXoVWZThysAFHrQtDMD ....when Russia has bomberrs flying over Tokyo or Berlin or NY or London ...THEN they can worry
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 9:53 utc | 134
English translation of the dark scenario of trade union building killings - pravy sektor in there before the fire - with photographs.
Provocateurs on the roof and in the crowd.
Inside photographs must come from first responders in the building - police, fire fighters?
Someone must know who the pregnant woman is and be able to confirm time and place.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 10:25 utc | 135
billmon @billmon1 6h
Horrible stories going around in Russian media: Many more killed in Odessa trade union hall than reported, & not just by fire & smoke. (1)
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 10:50 utc | 136
GrahamWPhillips @GrahamWP_UK 13h
1/2 Changed name of my blog from 'Brit in Ukraine',for obvious reasons do not wish to be associated with Ukraine now. http://grahamwphillips.com/
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 11:06 utc | 137
Roza Kazan @rozakazancctv 10h
#Donetsk People's Republic has announced formation of their own armed forces: over a thousand people already signed up
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 11:08 utc | 138
Nina Byzantina @NinaByzantina · 4h
Funny thing is, Russian media sites are full of anti-Putin comments, but I see neither banning, nor whining. :) @herodfel @WimLuyckx
Nina Byzantina @NinaByzantina · 4h
The way this article painfully reaches shows just how much Western mainstream media is afraid to lose its hegemony. :) @VrezhT @herodfel
Nina Byzantina @NinaByzantina · 4h
:) The trend is that if it's pro-Russian, then it's a conspiracy, but if it's pro-mainstream-Western, then it's authentic. @KhalidUmar33
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 11:10 utc | 139
Posted by: brian | May 5, 2014 6:50:09 AM | 136
maybe you should quote him in full
billmon @billmon1 6h
.@Ronnie_Baker This one doesn't leave much room for "both sides are doing it." If reports are true, Odessa was pure fascist butchery. (1)
.@Ronnie_Baker If false, then Russian media is stoking the fires of a communal civil war, ala Syria. (2)
.@Ronnie_Baker If -- very big if -- Russian media (with or without a government role) is deliberately spreading false atrocity stories...(1)
.@Ronnie_Baker ...it would put them on par with "hate radio" in Rwanda in 1994. (2)
It comes down to Cui Bono - who wants this to become civil war? It is obvious that there was shooting at both sides just like on Maidan.
I also wonder if there is any connection to this news and if Kolomoisky is the only one doing it - dead or alive.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 11:11 utc | 140
more praise for RT
Catherina @Catherina_News 5h
@PaulaSlier_RT Can't thank u enough 4 amazing job ur doing & entire RT crew. Never seen such great work reporting & sticking to truth. A+
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 11:15 utc | 141
There is also this bit of information
Local mass media quoted a source in the Interior Ministry as saying that militants from the special task force battalions Vostok (East) and Shturm (Storm) clad in civilian clothes had been involved in the killings and beatings in Odessa. Reports said they were manned with nationalists ready for mass clashes and sponsored by Ukrainian oligarchs Igor Kolomoisky and Pyotro Poroshenko.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 11:16 utc | 142
Way-back there @3 I suggested that "From the Russian point of view, the only thing that could happen which would be better would be for the nutso fascists to actually cross the border into Russia with guns blazing."
Justin Raimondo, in a new post today at Antiwar.com, is predicting that an armed assault on Russia by Right Sector is the next phase: "Phase three of Kiev’s terror campaign: attacks by Right Sector in Russia itself. Yes, and you can tell them you read it here first …"
Russia has so far successfully resisted attempts by the US and the EU to confront the Ukraine fascists with force. Smart move on their part, as any military incursion into Ukraine by Russia would be just the excuse for US and EU to turn the local civil war into a full-bore war between Russia and "the West." But if the idiots financing and arming Right Sector send them into Russia --- well, that is entirely different. It would be a case of Russia being invaded and Russia responding defensively. If the Russians continue to display their skills, they will wait until Right Sector has penetrated five to 10 miles into Russia, and THEN the Russian Army will squash them.
Posted by: George | May 5 2014 11:16 utc | 143
Jihad goes to Ukraine?
S. Arabia Relocating Takfiri Fighters from Syria to Ukraine
TEHRAN (FNA)- Saudi Arabia has sent a large number of Takfiri fighters in Syria to Ukraine to fight the pro-Russian protesters in the European country.
"A large number of terrorist Takfiri fighters in Syria, who bear Saudi and Chechnian nationalities and receive financial and military backup from the Saudi intelligence agency, have been transferred to the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on several planes to help the Ukrainian army in its fight against the pro-Russian population," an Arab security official told FNA on Sunday on the condition of anonymity due to the secrecy of the issue.
"The forces have been immediately dispatched to Kramatosk city in Eastern Ukraine, and are now fighting beside the Ukrainian army forces against the pro-Russians under the name of militias who support the government," the source added.
The source explained that Saudi Arabia seeks to take revenge from Russia and pro-Russian people in Ukraine due to Moscow's support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the war on rebel groups.
Last Summer, former Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar reportedly offered Russian President Putin a deal, saying if Russia abandoned Syria, Saudi Arabia would protect the Sochi Olympics from Islamic terrorists. Putin angrily rebuffed the offer. In January, two terrorist bombings, for which the Saudis were blamed, happened only 400 miles away from the site of the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia.
According to the leaked diplomatic account of last summer’s meeting, Bandar sought Russia’s cooperation on several Mideast concerns, including Syria, and told Putin, “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us.”
Putin reportedly responded, “We know that you have supported the Chechen terrorist groups for a decade. And that support, which you have frankly talked about just now, is completely incompatible with the common objectives of fighting global terrorism that you mentioned. We are interested in developing friendly relations according to clear and strong principles.”
Besides safety for the Sochi Olympics, Bandar raised the potential of Saudi cooperation with Russia on oil and other investment matters, saying, “Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets,” according to the diplomatic account.
A source close to the Russian government said in January that this mix of overt inducements and implied threats infuriated Putin who barely kept his anger in check through the end of the meeting with Bandar. Putin viewed Bandar’s offer to protect the Sochi Olympics as something akin to a Mafia don shaking down a shopkeeper for protection money by saying, “nice little business you got here, I’d hate to see anything happen to it.”
Putin then redoubled his support for the Syrian government in response to Bandar’s blend of bribes and warnings. The source said Russia also issued its own thinly veiled threats against the Saudis. The Saudis may have substantial “soft power” – with their oil and money – but Russia has its own formidable “hard power,” including a huge military, the source said.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930214000824
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 11:18 utc | 144
Re #45, #46, #53: the arms dump - there's a very detailed story on it here. Whoever holds it has an incentive to describe it as outdated, implying that it is unusable, and conversely, whoever is unable to gain control of it would have an incentive to describe it as highly usable. So this very detailed description is probably worth noting. Re the Odessa fire, I have gathered quite a lot of stuff, mainly from Saker blog. This is how I put it in my latest blog post on it:
I don’t like to do this but (in this video) you can hear a woman inside the building screaming for help as she is raped by Pravy Sektor thugs, and two minutes later they hoist their flag in the window of the next room. This is all going on while the three exits are blocked by firebombs but the rest is untouched. Admittedly, that leaves a question: let’s assume that the Pravy Sektor thugs, or what amounts to a Pravy Sektor death squad, went in before the entrances (three, I believe) were sealed behind them with firebombs; but then, how did the Pravy Sektor thugs get out?
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 5 2014 11:45 utc | 145
@brin - could please stop posting what seem to be random out of context tweets of whoknownswho?
If you have to say something say it in your own voice please.
PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT 24m
Meanwhile, Russian media reports that Italian businessmen called on EU not to impose sanctions on Russia. German businessmen did it earlier.
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 12:13 utc | 147
how exactly is my own voice relevant...? im not in ukraine?
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 12:14 utc | 148
@brian - I ain't in Ukraine either. I still have an opinion and don't repost out-of-context tweets from elsewhere.
---
Interesting that this is from U.S. Carnegie. It seems to agree with my thinking that this is a trap for Russia: Ukraine Burning
Kiev’s main problem is not so much the local militias or any Russian meddling. Rather, it is the rapidly worsening socio-economic situation and the growing disenchantment of many Ukrainians with the results of the February revolution, which, if anything, have strengthened the oligarchical rule in the country. Potentially, this could lead to a new Maidan, and a new revolution.
...
Ever since the Kiev revolutionary coup of February 21-22, Putin has been resolute and ruthless, but also calculating and careful. He might well avoid falling into the fast trap where his many enemies would wish to see him, and hold off long enough before the bulk of the work is done for him.
Posted by: George | May 5, 2014 7:16:31 AM | 143
Russia has so far successfully resisted attempts by the US and the EU to confront the Ukraine fascists with force. Smart move on their part, as any military incursion into Ukraine by Russia would be just the excuse for US and EU to turn the local civil war into a full-bore war between Russia and "the West." But if the idiots financing and arming Right Sector send them into Russia --- well, that is entirely different. It would be a case of Russia being invaded and Russia responding defensively. If the Russians continue to display their skills, they will wait until Right Sector has penetrated five to 10 miles into Russia, and THEN the Russian Army will squash them.
I am not sure where Russia's interest lie frankly - as b. noted in an earlier post there even was a meme at one stage that Pravy Sektor work for Russia - proving what they had been saying about Ukrainian fascists all along.
West Ukraine is something like a quarter of the population - there is no way, they can dominate all of Ukraine in a civil war.
Whilst Eastern Ukrainian oligarchs for sure don't want to be taken over by Russia, the population presumably would not mind, as in more security, higher pensions and wages.
Pravy Sektor in Eastern Ukraine just makes the population fight.
I guess the US intends to engineer some Lithuanian, Polish, West Ukrainian Union along historical borders, whilst Russia will claim the rich Eastern part.
It is only the EU who will have to foot the bill and Eastern oligarchs (whose businesses are in danger of being taken over) that are interested in Ukrainian unity. Kyiv politicians for sure aren't as they would have to share power and income.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 12:30 utc | 150
@149
Of course it's a trap for Russia!
So was Syria - the aim was never really to "win" against the Syrian Gov, merely to draw them into an increasingly vicious barbaric conflict so that they could be portrayed as "The new Hitler". Then Russia's image could be blackened using "guilt by association".
The whole point of these low-intensity conflicts being fomented by the US/Israel/EU is to blacken the name of Russia once again.
So the same game that was played in Syria is now being played in Ukraine.
The whole point of this Ukraine conflict is to draw Russia into an increasingly vicious barbaric conflict so that they can now be portrayed as "The new Hitler".
The US and Russia cannot ever come into direct conflict, (due to Nukes) so proxy forces are necessary for the US to "confront" a resurgent Russia, forcing the Russians to re-act which can then be portrayed as "Russia aggression" for the couch-potato idiot-box addicts.
For that to happen, no "win" is necessary for the Islamo-loons in Syria, nor for the Nazi-Loons in Ukraine. All that is required is merely for the US/Israel/UK/EU to ensure the continuation of these vicious barbaric conflicts, forcing the Russians to re-act.
That is why the US/Israel/UK/EU has verifiably merely drip-fed Arms finance and supplies to the Islamo-loons in Syria, turning on and off the tap when required, to make sure that the Islamo-loons cannot win in fact.
Sounds counter-intuitive, but that is what they are doing nonetheless.
The US calculated that the Russians would eventually have to re-act in both Syria and Ukraine, and they were not wrong, and when they have reacted the "game is on".
Luckily for the world the Russians have reacted very cleverly, refusing, so far, to rush in armoured up to the max.
BUT, the Russians cannot avoid re-acting in some measure, because of the need for access to warm-water ports amongst many other reasons.
For the last decade the US name has been mud, as it murders it's way across the globe and especially the Arab world.
So, just as the US created the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in order to, quoting Zbiggy, "give the Russians their own Vietnam", they have also created/financed/trained/supplied the Islamo-loons and Bandera-Nazi-loons in order to "give Russia it's own Afghanistan, it's own Iraq, it's own Pakistan" etc etc
The whole point is not to "Win!" but to keep the slaughter going as long as possible, in order to make the Russians look as bad as possible.
Keeping the slaughter going and blackening the image of Russia IS the "Win!"
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 12:58 utc | 151
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 8:58:49 AM | 151
Also denying Europa and Russia the advantage of a common economic zone.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 13:05 utc | 152
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 8:58:49 AM | 151
Also denying Europa and Russia the advantage of a common economic zone.
Posted by: somebody | May 5, 2014 9:05:53 AM | 152
Wow, for once we agree. quelle surprise
I forgot to mention in my rant above that, also, Germany is the one of the main targets in all this.
If Germany were an actual Sovereign nation, and not a mere occupied Zio/US vassal territory, then they could actually, for once, act in their own interest, but since Germany is nothing but an defeated occupied vassal state of the Zio/US Empire, unless they want to risk the wrath of Zio/US Empire (something they have experienced twice in the last 100 yrs) there seems little they can do to help prevent themselves from falling over the edge of the abyss the Zio-Us empire is pushing them toward
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 13:20 utc | 153
In case you missed it:
Russian bombers, fighter jets seen over Crimea
AFP, May 4 2014
SIMFEROPOL - Several dozen Russian planes including what appeared to be strategic bombers and fighter jets have been spotted in the sky above the Moscow-controlled peninsula of Crimea, witnesses and experts said. According to Russian media, Putin is to visit Crimea on Friday after the main military parade on Red Square when Russia celebrates its victory over Nazi Germany in WW2. A local aviation expert told AFP on Sunday that he had sighted a number of planes over the peninsula's main city of Simferopol on Saturday, including supersonic heavy strategic bombers and heavy military transport aircraft. He said he had also seen refuelling tankers and MiG-29 jets. Another expert, Alexei Savich, who was shown footage of the aircraft, said a Sukhoi Su-34 fighter jet could be seen among the planes. He also identified the tankers and military transport planes. Many local residents have also seen the aircraft rumble over the peninsula including in Simferopol and the neighbouring town of Bakhchisarai. Local resident Arzy Khaibulaeva told AFP:
It was a bit scary. Children were frightened. They were flying low, and some were refuelling in mid-air.
Savich told AFP:
Moscow is most likely bringing in some serious military aircraft, ramping up its military presence on the peninsula.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 5 2014 13:20 utc | 154
PS:
After all, they wouldn't want to end up like the Japanese, now would they?
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 13:23 utc | 155
I am not sure where Russia's interest lie frankly
Posted by: somebody | May 5, 2014 8:30:53 AM | 150
Russia's interest lies in not getting suckered into a boots-on-the-ground very expensive disastrous war
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 13:25 utc | 156
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 9:20:33 AM | 153
It is not black and white. US is a multi headed beast as Germany (or Russia, or any country).
No one in this country forces the media (or politicians) to overlook the fascist tendencies of the orange revolution nor fascist hooliganism in Germany. They bring this on themselves.
Same as the US brings this stupid strategy on themselves. They are big enough to be able to isolate themselves but isolate is what they do.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 5, 2014 9:20:47 AM | 154
May 9 is Russian victory day marking the signing of the capitulation of Germany after World War II. German victims of fascism celebrate that day, too, though nowadays presumably their off spring are celebrating.
Anyway, Putin intends to be in Crimea to celebrate this and the weapons show presumably is for this event. What is planned for the rest of Ukraine is anybody's guess.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 13:37 utc | 157
somebody
Cant imagine the security for Putin to go to Crimea. Also may 9 would mean alot to Russia this year one bet.
Good of course, that should make obama know he cant do whatever he likes without a response.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 13:54 utc | 158
Olivier Fehr @oliviernfehr 23m
#Poltava Berkut not going to #Kramatorsk for #Kyiv regime @Darifma
Steiner @Steiner1776 21m
#Ukraine #Poltava #Berkut units refuse #Kiev orders to go to #Kramatorsk to fight people via @oliviernfehr & @Darifma
e
Steiner @Steiner1776 23m
#Ukraine Right Sector #PravySector members caught & arrested by self defense in #Donetsk pic.twitter.com/DhAW9D7PVs
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 13:54 utc | 159
here a source i use of some in context tweets
https://twitter.com/PaulaSlier_RT
the 'out of context tweets' of that ex BBC fellow are in context as they show a liberal sensibility at work mediating what you and others read
Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 13:58 utc | 160
The Odessa incident was not an unfortunate fire. It was a planned massacre. - see several posts above, other links could be posted.
As posted weeks ago, again, the main aims:
Baiting Russia to move forward in some way.
Keeping the EU under the domination of the US and *at all costs* preventing more rapprochement EU-Russia.
Not allowing anyone to ‘join’ in whatever way Russia (see also Obiman’s eastern pivot, relevant as well.) All this btw will probably ease pressure on Iran a bit, rehab it somewhat?
Ukraine is to be pro-West even if only half the country. That might be a ‘loss’ but it is better than nothing, and imho, not quite off the cuff, but close!, Koup-Kiev-Gov is not only prepared for this but now slowly accepting it, as they have no means to enforce. Failing that, chaos and civil war, proxy-war, escalation.
If ‘new border’ is upheld it will have to be defended by UN peacekeepers, foreign forces. etc. (See Yougoslavia.)
In the last 20 years, what region (different defs.), country, has asked to join another? None.
All break-away efforts have been for ‘autonomy’ (e.g. Catalonia, Flanders, Scotland, etc.), or have had ‘partition’ put on them (e.g. Sudan.)
Though entry to EU has been a big point (another story.)
And yet there are a bunch of ppl who want to be part of Russia?
An unprecedented, extraordinary, crushing loss of face.
Posted by: Noirette | May 5 2014 14:18 utc | 161
Posted by: Noirette | May 5, 2014 10:18:04 AM | 161
In the last 20 years, what region (different defs.), country, has asked to join another? None.
German reunification? Historically you could make the case with Ukraine, however, that is more than 20 years ago ....
Ukraine's recent history as independent country is 23 years - i.e one generation, GDR were two generations.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 14:27 utc | 162
PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT 48 min
Hearing unconfirmed reports that a girl was killed in #Slavyansk by a stray bullet. Colleagues also say a woman was killed by sniper.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 14:30 utc | 163
It is not black and white. US is a multi headed beast as Germany (or Russia, or any country).
No one in this country forces the media (or politicians) to overlook the fascist tendencies of the orange revolution nor fascist hooliganism in Germany.
actually it is pretty black and white in regards to who really controls what goes on in Germany - when you say "No one in this country forces the media (or politicians) to overlook the fascist tendencies of the orange revolution nor fascist hooliganism in Germany" you are as usual, and very very predictably for you, ignoring the massive elephant in the room - Germany is a defeated vassal state of the Zio-US Empire, currently occupied by the Militaries of the US and UK, (the main mailitary-wings of the Zio-US Empire) - thus no meaningful opposing power-block is ever allowed to develop that would challenge the current ruling power, the Zio-US Empire
Last politician I can recall that made the miscalculation of thinking that Germany was NOT an occupied defeated vassal state of the Zio-US Empire was Jürgen Möllemann, and he ended up dead very very shortly after making that miscalculation
You of course, being who and what you are, will of course immediately claim that there was nothing at all untoward in the death of Möllemann, but then that is why so many here so often consider you to be dishonest ;-)
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 14:37 utc | 164
scalawag @119 wrote:
"RT has picked up the news about the western agents with red armbands."
Here is a link showing a very confused individual: a yellow/blue Ukraine tag, a St George tag, a red armband, and a smoke? grenade. A classic, and dumb, false flag operator.
Posted by: Yonatan | May 5 2014 14:37 utc | 165
yonathan
165
Dont forget the keffiyeh scarf too lol
A pro russian, pro maidan, anti-russian and anti-maidan, pro palestinian?
Seriously whats the point with this? Could only be "false flag" right?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 14:46 utc | 166
Anonymous @166
Yeah, I saw that but thought my combination was sufficiently bizarre as it stood!
Posted by: Yonatan | May 5 2014 15:01 utc | 167
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 10:37:19 AM | 164
You overlook the fact that you cannot control a country by occupation. Or the Soviet Union was still in Afghanistan/Eastern Europe take your pick, the US had friendly relations with Iraq, neither by just "winning" a war, or Western business people could travel safely in Libya.
So no matter how transatlantic Angela Merkel pretends to be, there are a lot of things she just will not do - like pooling European debt or gas. Or agreeing to Russian sanctions that really hurt (as a matter of fact Europe does different sanctions from the US). Or stop phoning Putin. Or embrace McCain. Or get involved in US politics.
You might have noticed that despite all US/Canadian/Polish shale gas propaganda no one in Europe seems to be buying. You also might notice that European tax payers spend a fraction of the US/or Russia on defense whilst most European countries do have decent cheap health service and free education.
If German media does not report on facts it is laziness, lack of resources, conformism, corporate bias, party control of public television. Not censorship.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 15:08 utc | 168
Russian Embassy, UAE @RusEmbassyUAE · 1mNew facts about May 2 #Odessa slaughter: >200 killed, many - by bullets, not blaze. #RightSector militants entered building before the fire.
For some reason it is the Russian embassy in Abu Dabi who tweets this. But it seems official now.
I don't see how this can not become a huge issue.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 15:25 utc | 169
You overlook the fact that you cannot control a country by occupation.
And you of course, predictably for you (of course, otherwise you wouldn't be you, would ya? ;-) completely ignore the very very relevant fact that before the country in question was occupied it had already been twice defeated and once utterly destroyed by the occupiers, prior to the latest military occupation
Under those circumstances controlling Germany becomes a lot lot easier.
If German media does not report on facts it is laziness, lack of resources, conformism, corporate bias, party control of public television. Not censorship.
Posted by: somebody | May 5, 2014 11:08:27 AM | 168
yeah, let's just ignore the relevant fact, which you already know, and I already know you know, that one of the biggest News orgs in DE, Axel Springer Verlag, actually has written into the contract of all it's reporters, that they MUST never do anything that would be detrimental to the zio racist state of Israel
Under those circumstances, when support for Israel is a contractual obligation, it becomes a damn sight harder for any real independent media to emerge
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 15:40 utc | 170
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 11:40:16 AM | 170
You happen to forget that no one is forced to work for the Springer Verlag - there is lots of competition - and no one is forced to read their stuff.
You also choose to forget Germany is very much the root cause for the founding of Israel. To say it cynically so you understand - the "souvereign" fascist Germany was zionist to the core.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 15:54 utc | 171
The speculation among the Russian bloggers about there being many more murdered in Odessa appears to be confirmed now.
Link to Kiev conceals deaths in Odessa fire, 116 killed - Ukrainian lawmaker
"The interim Ukrainian authorities are hiding from the public the true death toll in Friday's tragedy in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa, which actually claimed 116 lives, a member of the Odessa regional council told RIA Novosti Monday. "According to our data, there were 116 people killed in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa. Killed, not just "dead". "We don't use the word "burned" or "suffocated", because autopsies are not being performed, since the people have bullet wounds to the head," Vadim Savenko said.
Most of those who died in the House of Trade Unions had burns on their heads and forearms, he added.
"It means that the people had been burned by combustible mixtures, so that it would be impossible to identify the bodies," he said, adding that he obtained the information from anti-Kiev activists, "people who were inside the House of Trade Unions."
The interim Kiev authorities have carried out a cover-up of the scale of the tragedy so that the world community wouldn't know that a punitive operation against pro-federalization activists had been carried out in Odessa, the lawmaker said."
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 16:13 utc | 172
@ 57
and yet again, (cos otherwise you wouldn't be you, would ya?) you ignore the other massive elephant in the room - no German can ever hope to meaningfully publicly criticise the Zionist Racist state of Israel without being the target of false and malicious allegations of Anti-Semitism, (usually from blatantly dishonest individuals such as yourself) :-)
So any commercial News organisation in DE willing to meaningfully publicly criticise the Zionist Racist state of Israel is risking commercial suicide under those circumstances
And under those circumstances, Occupation and control become very easy indeed
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 16:28 utc | 173
Why arent RT posting the scenes from the building?
Any news on those "snuff" movies posted some weeks back? They seems to be realistic after past weekend massacres..
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 16:31 utc | 174
i agree with lol and somebody @ 151, 152 and 153.. this is much along the same lines of b's commentary too. i think the propaganda is one of the main features of this ongoing war too.. although russia has some success with rt and etc, it needs to keep extending it's following in order to offer an alternative viewpoint which many ordinary people are not getting, especially in certain areas of the world.
@170 - interesting commentary i was unaware of as well. thanks.
brian - still no response from my question to you @ 112.. i think what b is asking of you is that you share some personal perspective, as opposed to random tweets. this would imply engaging with others here in some type of meaningful dialogue..
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 16:43 utc | 175
One of the "random out of context tweets of whoknownswho" writers that Brian has been quoting now has a $10000 bounty on his head.
Link to $10,000 a head: Radicals put a bounty on UK journalist in Ukraine
(Warning: the article includes tweets from several "whoknownswhos", read at your own risk.)
"Ukrainian radicals have put a bounty out on RT stringer Graham Phillips, who is currently working in the east of the country. Also a camera-man working for RT in Odessa has been informed about being on the radicals' radar.
“Myself I have received threats putting a bounty on my head to be kidnapped and that has been offered from [the city of] Dnepropetrovsk, as I understand, connected to the Right Sector,” Graham Phillips confirmed while reporting live from the city of Slavyansk.
The Right Sector reportedly offered $10,000 for the capture of “a Russian spy.”
The ultra-nationalists also have a cameraman working for RT in the violence-gripped city of Odessa on their radar, RT's Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan confirmed in a statement.
“Our camera-man-stringer in Odessa received a call from the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU). [They] said that he is now on the radar of the Right Sector. [His] former colleagues gave him up. SBU said that the Right Sector now has all his phone numbers and addresses. They gave him up for his anti-Maidan views which he never kept secret,” Simonyan posted on her Twitter.
RT's Editor-in-Chief’s statement comes after the channel’s correspondent Irina Galushko said on her Twitter that the camera-man she is working with had received threats.
On May, 4, RT’s correspondent posted:
Irina Galushko @IrinaGalushkoRTcam'man i'm working with just informed his addresses and contacts are in hands of Security Service, Right Sector and Nat'l Guard #Odessa
10:41 AM - 4 May 2014
Foreign journalists working in Ukraine have been subject to an unfolding witch-hunt in Ukraine with assaults and intimidation of reporters intensifying recently."
With Dnepropetrovsk being the source of the bounty money, that means Israeli oligarch Igor Kolomoisky is the war criminal providing the bounty. He has already heavily funded right sector recruitment and operations.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 16:46 utc | 176
173) Let's face it, nothing holds Germany's conservative elites back from criticising Israel - they do not want to.
The elites who want to - criticise.
So now here it is - Yarosh threatened it before - Odessa gas pipeline targeted in clashes.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 16:50 utc | 177
Link to Ukraine's SBU plots provocations in Odessa on May 9
"Head of Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) Valentin Nalivaychenko has given the SBU department in Odessa several days to curb pro-Russian protests in the city, the RIA Novosti news agency reports quoting a source in Ukrainian law enforcement bodies.
"The head of the SBU department for the Odessa region has received Nalivaichenko’s order to create conditions within days for a special operation to suppress pro-Russian elements in Odessa," the source said.
The SBU is planning to plant its "moles" among the protesters to provoke riots, including on May 9, and to forge evidence of alleged Russian arms supplies through Orthodox churches in the Odessa region, the source said.
Once the riots are provoked, the source said, Right Sector militants, posing as outraged city residents, and specially trained riot police will be brought in to quell them."
Preparing more massacres, the west will heartily approve, no doubt, as the west is running these Ukraine death squads, just like they run them in Latin America and elsewhere.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 16:58 utc | 178
can i read rt on my own, or do i need some help by some posters here? lol... geez, i think i can do it on my own!
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 17:12 utc | 179
scalawag
Time for that brave journalist to go home perhaps? It isnt worth it when you have nazis after you and a corrupt police.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 17:14 utc | 180
Link to Dozens injured, fatalities on both sides in ongoing military op in Slavyansk (VIDEO)
"There were fatalities among both Kiev loyalists and local militia members after government troops renewed the crackdown on the defiant eastern Ukrainian protester stronghold of Slavyansk. Over a dozen of people have been killed, including some civilians.
There was a shooting on the outskirts of Slavyansk as pro-government troops raided a protester checkpoint on Monday.
At least 10 self-defense fighters and their unarmed civilian supporters have been killed in the latest clashes, the commander of Slavyansk self-defense, Igor Strelkov, told RIA Novosti.
“We suffered losses – about 10 people, including civilians, 20-25 people were injured. I do not know the losses of our adversaries; clearly they are smaller than ours, they have armor. Most of our losses came from plainclothes [troops], disguised as civilians. We fell into their ambush near a petrol station,” Strelkov said.
The Ukrainian Interior Ministry said four of its troops were killed and some 30 others injured in Slavyansk during Monday’s attack. There are also casualties among the civilian population of the city, the ministry added.
A Ukrainian army helicopter was downed by heavy machine gun fire and crashed into a river in the Slavyansk area, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry press service has said in a statement. The aircraft, identified as Mi-24 helicopter, was hit at 14:30 local time (11:30 GMT) while doing a target run during a combat mission, the statement said. The pilots survived the crash and have been evacuated."
The bandera nazis continue to terrorize local civilians with random sniping attacks and indiscriminate fire from their "military" personnel. Several of the reported deaths were from these.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 17:17 utc | 181
O's and Merkel's press conference had some interesting tidbits after 20 minutes of blah, blah. This first question was loaded with a propaganda point as below:
....
PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think we’re going to take two questions from the U.S. press and two questions from the German press. We’ll start with Lesley Clark.
Q: Thank you, Mr. President.
With violence today in Ukraine, you’ve said today that Germany and the United States are united in efforts to de-escalate. But have you been able to reach any common ground with the chancellor on sectoral sanctions, particularly the energy — the Russian energy section — sector? What’s next if you’re unable to?
And to Chancellor Merkel, reports in the U.S. press have suggested that you’ve said that you believed President Putin may not be in touch with reality. Is that what you’ve said? Is that what you believe? And could you give us — you talked to him earlier this week. Could you give us a little more insight into what he might be thinking? And do you believe that he’s a threat to Europe? Thank you.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, obviously, every day we’re watching the events in eastern Ukraine and southern Ukraine with deep concern. And I think that what you’ve seen over the course of the last several months in the midst of this crisis is remarkable unity between the United States and the European Union in the response.
We have, at the same time, offered a diplomatic approach that could resolve this issue. We have been unified in supporting the Ukrainian government in Kiev, both economically, diplomatically and politically. And we have said that we would apply costs and consequences to the Russians if they continued with their actions. And that’s exactly what we’ve done. And you saw just over the course of the last week additional sanctions applied both by the Europeans and the U.S.
The next step is going to be a broader-based sectoral sanctions regime.....
CHANCELLOR MERKEL: (Through interpreter.) It is, I think, obvious to all that there are very different assessments on what happens in Ukraine. On the one hand, you have the United States and Europe; we’ve always taken our decisions together; and on the other hand, the Russian appreciation and appraisal of the situation.
I hope that Russia will live up better in the future to its responsibilities. But we need to see deeds match the — matching out their words....
[this is perhaps a fois pas?, exactly what Russia offered to Ukraine/EU. okie]
PRESIDENT OBAMA: I’ve said from the start that Russia has legitimate interests in terms of what happens next door in Ukraine. Obviously, there’s a deep and complicated history between Russia and Ukraine. And so of course Mr. Putin’s views should be taken into account.
What can’t be taken into account is Mr. Putin’s suggestion, both through words and actions, that he has the right to violate the sovereignty of another country, to violate its territorial integrity, to dictate the economic policies or foreign policy of a sovereign country.
That’s not acceptable. Our view has been from the start has been that the Ukrainians should be able to make their own decisions. And I’m very confident that if Ukrainians were allowed to make their own decisions, then they will choose to have a good relationship with Russia as well as a good relationship with Europe, that they’ll want to trade with Russia, and they’ll want to trade with Europe....And one of the biggest concerns that we’ve seen is the Russian propaganda that has been blasted out nonstop suggesting somehow that the Ukrainian government is responsible for the problems in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian government has shown remarkable restraint throughout this process. The notion that this is some spontaneous uprising in eastern Ukraine is belied by all the evidence of well- organized, trained, armed militias with the capacity to shoot down helicopters.
Generally local protesters don’t possess that capacity of surface-to- air missiles or whatever weapons were used to shoot down helicopters, tragically.
We’ve seen the attempts of OSCE monitors, who were approved not just by Europe or the United States, but also by Russia, being detained. And somehow Russia is suggesting that Kiev is responsible for that.
We’ve heard Mr. Putin say, well, Kiev has to do a better job of reaching out to Eastern Europe — or eastern Ukraine. You’ve seen attempts by Kiev, in a very serious way, to propose decentralization of power and to provide for local elections, and for them to offer amnesty to those who have already taken over these buildings. None of that has been acknowledged by Mr. Putin or the various Russian mouthpieces that are out there.
You’ve also seen suggestions or implications that somehow Americans are responsible for meddling inside Ukraine. I have to say that our only interest is for Ukraine to be able to make its own decisions. And the last thing we want is disorder and chaos in the center of Europe.
(hard to listen to this much hypocrisy. okie)
Posted by: okie farmer | May 5 2014 17:22 utc | 182
Posted by: Anonymous | May 5, 2014 1:14:46 PM | 180
"Time for that brave journalist to go home perhaps? It isnt worth it when you have nazis after you and a corrupt police."
Yeah, it might be a good idea for journalists in the Ukraine to remain anonymous at this point, so the bandera nazis (and the western security services running them) will have a harder job trying to target them.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 17:25 utc | 183
@182 - okie... obama quote "The notion that this is some spontaneous uprising in eastern Ukraine is belied by all the evidence of well- organized, trained, armed militias with the capacity to shoot down helicopters." would have a lot more integrity if he said the same thing about the maiden protests in kiev where nuland and who knows how many cia members were helping things on the ground.. in this quote the hypocrisy is on full display for anyone paying only a modicum of attention.
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 17:29 utc | 184
RT reports a $10000 bounty on the head of a Brit journo.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5 2014 17:48 utc | 186
Globalresearch has now covered has now posted the evidence on the Odessa massacre that Russian bloggers and media have been exposing. It's now going to be more difficult for the western fascists to continue their propaganda scam. And for their internet tools, also.
Link to How Neo-Nazi Thugs Supported by Kiev Regime Killed Odessa Inhabitants. Photographic Evidence
"The following text and photos were sent to Global Research. They indicate a carefully planned agenda to incinerate people inside the Trade Unions building.
The images as well as reports suggest that the death toll was significantly higher than that published by the media.
The Western media has been involved in acts of coverup and distortion, describing the self-proclaimed Neo-Nazi Brown shirts as nationalists and “honest patriots”. Western governments have casually blamed the atrocities in Odessa on “pro-Russian paramilitaries”.
The Neo-Nazi thugs are directly supported by the Right Sector and Svoboda which play a central role in the coalition government. The Right Sector is supported by Washington.
The Neo-Nazi mobs in Odessa bear the hallmarks of US sponsored terrorism (e.g Syria) trained to commit atrocities against civilians. America’s Neo-Nazi Government in Kiev is a reality. Confirmed by Germany’s Bild: “Dozens of specialists from the US Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation are advising the Ukrainian government”
Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research Editor, May 5, 2014"
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 17:51 utc | 187
173) Let's face it, nothing holds Germany's conservative elites back from criticising Israel - they do not want to.
The elites who want to - criticise.
Posted by: somebody | May 5, 2014 12:50:39 PM | 177
Oh dear - I knew it wouldn't be long before you started being your usual not-very-honest self, and of course you proved me correct :)
When you claimed "The elites who want to - criticise." you were of course being your usual completely disingenuous self
As i stated quite clearly @ 173
no German can ever hope to meaningfully publicly criticise the Zionist Racist state of Israel without being the target of false and malicious allegations of Anti-Semitism, (usually from blatantly dishonest individuals such as yourself) :-)
You of course, being the disingenuious chaap that you are, decided to reply with a mere link to an article in German, a language which most people here do not read - and you also disingenuously (as usual) provided no quote from the article in question.
Why would that be, I wonder.
Oh that's an easy one to answer, it's almost always a certainty that when the dishonest person in question replies to someone else's point with a mere link, and no quote, he usually is completely and deliberately misrepresenting what ever piece of "evidence" he is presenting.
This untrustworthy disingenuous individual calling himself "Somebody" says "The elites who want to - criticise." and ignores the evidence in the very article he linked to that, as I stated earlier, any German politician that criticises Israel immediately gets attacked with dishonest allegations, (usually, but not exclusively, regarding of "anti-semitism")
to demonstrate just how dishonest he really is, I provide below a Google Translate of the most relevant bit of the article , that shows just how he has deliberately misrepresented the contents of the article.
Google trans.In the evening, Gabriel finally apologizes : "If my formulation has led to misunderstanding , I would equate Israel and its government with the old apartheid regime in South Africa , I'm suffering the wanted and I did not explicitly because this comparison against Israel more . would be unjust and the old South Africa against trivializing . "
Meanwhile CDU General Secretary Hermann Gröhe by Gabriel has demanded an apology for his " verbal total failure ." " This comparison is a scandal and an embarrassment to the Chairman of People's Party ," said Gröhe World Online"
As anyone can see, even from the badly-translated excerpt above - the Politician in question was immediately forced into a retraction of her statement regarding Israeli Apartheid.
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 17:52 utc | 188
The western fascists are attempting to censor Russian media by having their Google outfit list them as "attack pages". I just went to vz.ru and this popped up instead:
Reported Attack Page!This web page at www.vz.ru has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.
It then offered a couple of buttons labeled:
Get me out of here! & Why was this page blocked?
I clicked the latter and was taken to this page:
Safe Browsing
Diagnostic page for vz.ruWhat is the current listing status for vz.ru?
Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.
What happened when Google visited this site?
Of the 1241 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 0 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2014-05-04, and suspicious content was never found on this site within the past 90 days.
This site was hosted on 1 network(s) including AS25532 (MASTERHOST-AS).
Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?
Over the past 90 days, vz.ru did not appear to function as an intermediary for the infection of any sites.
Has this site hosted malware?
No, this site has not hosted malicious software over the past 90 days.
How did this happen?
In some cases, third parties can add malicious code to legitimate sites, which would cause us to show the warning message.
Next steps:
Return to the previous page.
If you are the owner of this web site, you can request a review of your site using Google Webmaster Tools. More information about the review process is available in Google's Webmaster Help Center.
Is there any part of the western establishment that is not being run by totally corrupt, subhuman scum?
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 18:14 utc | 189
Next, using the Google translater to translate the vz.ru front page, I got this instead of a translation:
ErrorWe believe the page you requested will try to harm your computer or steal your personal information. Visit it at your own risk.
Please choose from the following:
Go back to the previous page
Back to Translate
See original page
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 18:18 utc | 190
Posted by: lol | May 5, 2014 1:52:14 PM | 188
He is a politician. He said what he said in a very strong way. All he took back was a the comparison with the "old South African apartheid regime" - which he calls worse - he did not take back the word apartheid.
So ...
By the way, he would not have said it if he did not expect it get him votes.
This here is Die Linke Gregor Gysi on German history and what it means
Wenn ein Palästinenser oder Israeli einen binationalen Staat fordert, ist das sein gutes Recht. Es darf auch in Ecuador jeder einen gemeinsamen Staat für Palästinenser und Juden fordern. Aber nicht in Deutschland.
Translation: If a Palestinian or Israeli demands a binational state, they have the right to do that. Everybody in Ecuador has the right to do that. But not in Germany.
Explanation: A country cannot kill parts of its population and then feel free to take the moral high ground with the descendents of those who survived.
Posted by: somebody | May 5 2014 18:26 utc | 191
google - a big part of the problem and owners of youtube as well.. can't remember the right wing think tank that the ceo sits on, but anyone who thinks google is nuetral or impartial is a bigger fool then i give them credit for.
Posted by: james | May 5 2014 18:28 utc | 192
Regarding this question of how it could possibly be that Germans who criticise Israel and/or Zionism are branded anti-Semites, I think the correct angle to pursue is the one that was always emphasized by Neturei Karta, to wit that the Zionists were covert allies of the Nazis throughout the 20th century and still are, as is being proved again today in Ukraine. Nazism is on the march across Europe again, courtesy of both the US and Israel. One shouldn't be deceived by Israel's pose of standoffishness and even timidity regarding Ukraine, which is an old trick of theirs and not very convincing, since we have documented evidence of Israeli military (or 'ex'-military) actually organizing at Maidan, and also we have the grotesque article in JTA trivialising and making jokes about 'Yido-banderism'. One of the most significant and profound aspects of this dreadful phenomenon, the emergence of a Nazi party in power in a most sensitive border area between Europe and Russia, site of countless Nazi massacres during WW2, is that it reveals the real collusion between Nazis and Zionists. I think now that this covert collusion must have been exactly the same before, during and after WW2. The Zionists and the Nazis were in collusion throughout the 20th century, one would infer, and still are in collusion. This is a startling finding and worth emphasizing. By the way, does anyone know how I can stop those annoying 'suggested by' links from sliding into the screen at the lower left during RT youtube videos? Wherever I look on the web, they confuse these with 'channel suggestions', which are something else, and which you can turn off relatively easily.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 5 2014 18:28 utc | 193
@ 191
This dishonest individual spends time making comment after comment telling me that there is nothing at all stopping any German from criticising Israel and how there is no attempts at censorship whatsoever in Germany regarding criticism of the zionist racists - and then, after it is repeatedly shown time & time again that there in fact is plenty stopping Germans criticising Israel, he links to an article, again in German, (a language which most people here do not speak) with a headline that immediately discredits every word he has said on the subject so far.
The headline in questions when translated into English, reads: "We have to set limits of criticism"
Seriously, dude, just fuck off with your lies and bullshit
Come back to me when you can manage a comment that isn't chock full of lies and bullshit - any expectation by anyone that you will, just once, engage in an honest manner, is just a complete waste of time
Posted by: lol | May 5 2014 18:38 utc | 194
Posted by: scalawag | May 5, 2014 2:18:37 PM | 190
This is a very common tactic. Malware gets inserted into the target site which then gets scanned by Google's malware search engine and then the site gets blacklisted.
Or, the site gets reported as malicious and then it's up the target site to get itself off the blacklist.
It's like your guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Tactics like this have proved to be pretty much the only way the powers that be, can get at us. Like all this censorship of the Web bullshit that they have the major service providers doing on behalf of the security state.
But unfortunately, it seems it's only when they come knocking at our doors that we realize what's going on and by then, it's too late.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5 2014 19:07 utc | 195
Not only is Google trying to block vz.ru, they are also blocking sites linked to the vz.ru site.
It's obvious that the attack site is actually Google.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 19:12 utc | 196
RE:
To access this site, all you have to do is click on the small print in the bottom righthand corner of the window and you'll be on the home page. Bingo!
Is the site infected? I dunno and I don't particularly care if it is. I have all kinds of defensive crap installed on my Mac which hopefully will take care of it for me.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5 2014 19:12 utc | 197
Whoops! It 'Ignore this warning' which I did of course. You only live once.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5 2014 19:13 utc | 198
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5, 2014 3:07:59 PM | 195
Look again at the page I copied from Google.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5, 2014 2:14:05 PM | 189
It says 0 attacks. No malware. The Google attack site warning is completely fraudulent.
Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 19:18 utc | 199
Posted by: scalawag | May 5, 2014 3:18:10 PM | 199
I agree, why are acting as if I don't believe you?
Posted by: William Bowles | May 5 2014 20:01 utc | 200
The comments to this entry are closed.
It is noteworthy that the Western MSM has covered the willful murder of 40plus people in such a low key and convoluted fashion that the average reader is hardly aware that anyone was murdered in Odessa on Friday. Or if they are aware they believe that the deaths were caused by the "rebels" or "terrorists" or Russian secret agents. Why else would the West be calling for increased sanctions? Talk of sanctions actually occurs within the context of a number of the "reports" of the deaths.
After a week of, at best, disinformation on the deaths by the MSM the whole business will fade into oblivion. In the minds of the masses there will be nothing or else the vague awareness that something bad happened which was caused by rebels or Russian sympathizers. And this pretty well is what the managers of the masses by way of the MSM want.
Posted by: Phantastron | May 5 2014 4:11 utc | 101