Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 09, 2014

Ukraine: Today's Incursion Into Mariupol

Alex Thomson of the British Channel 4 News reports from Mariupol:

[I]t seems clear that Ukrainian forces unleashed their guns upon Mariupol today and appear to have achieved precious little beyond alienating further the sizeable element of the population which wants rid of them altogether.

The city council of Mariupol was and is occupied and barricaded by federalists. There was also one bigger police station that was friendly with the federalists. It allegedly was held by Berkut riot police forces which had been abolished by the coup government. Today several BMP light tanks and BRT armored personal carriers drove into the city. Some unarmed civilians tried to hold them up. The city streets were flagged in anticipation of today's yearly victory parade which is held to commemorate the end of the long and bloody fight against the German nazi regime.

The BMPs seem to have driven up to the police station and took it under fire. Pictures showed a lot of damage and the building going up in flames. In some street nearby one BMP broke down and the troops it carried seem to have proceeded to their target on foot. While they were moving through the city unarmed civilians were shouting at them. At some point the troops opened fire and several people were killed and wounded. At least one man with a pistol was shooting back - videos from different perspectives: 1, 2, 3.

The whole operation in Mariupol today makes no sense to me. Why use hit and run tactics? Why use so few, badly trained troops. Why on such a sensible day? The interior minister of the coup government announced that 20 "terrorists" were killed in Mariupol. Journalists and hospital staff counted only three dead. Why is the coup government exaggerating the number of dead?

I am slowly coming to the opinion that the Kiev government and its CIA handlers are intentionally pouring oil into the fire. Do they know what they are doing? Do they know that they will have no chance to win should the east really rise up against them?

To them and everyone I recommend to read this probably first sane piece on Ukraine in the U.S. foreign policy media: Six Mistakes the West Has Made (and Continues to Make) in Ukraine. Excerpt:

Historians of the future will wonder greatly at the forbearance that Russia has shown in wielding its potentially vast influence (the ease with which Crimea was taken by Russia should be highly instructive), in contrast to the boldness verging on recklessness with which the United States and EU have sought to manipulate the political outcome in Kiev.

Recognizing the indigenous nature of Ukraine’s current problems, which often go back to promises left unfulfilled by past Ukrainian governments, is therefore a necessary first step toward dealing with them realistically. But it is only the first step. The next is to apply meaningful pressure on the interim government to do what it has thus far refused to do—establish a government of national unity.

Posted by b on May 9, 2014 at 16:48 UTC | Permalink

next page »

May 9 Victory Day

From Amerika: down with the fascists of the US and EU. Solidarity with East Ukraine and Russia. The time for political analysis is through, the moment of violent revolution has arrived. We will ever accept fascism in the US, Germany, Ukraine . . .

Power to the people!

Posted by: anonymous | May 9 2014 17:18 utc | 1

While the piece could be viewed as "sane", it's a little too much "good cop" for me.

Obviously what the Fulbright Scholar maintains is seemingly logical but I ask then "Why are you, Nikolai, not commenting on why someone such as yourself would have to make such seemingly logical arguments in the first place?"

Isn't that a little bit bigger of a story?

I mean, you expect us to believe that NO ONE in the massive echelons of US Establishment power couldn't come to the same conclusions that you have? That what has transpired in Ukraine were just some more American "oopsies" that fractured yet ANOTHER sovereign nation and that has gotten a bunch of people killed already?

Thus, the continued campaign of war crimes - Iraq, Libya, Syria, now Ukraine - is once again given the rational "difference of opinion" slant/veneer by people like Petro who paint these current actions not as the furtherance of despicable and PREMEDITATED strategies of people - US war criminals - who have long ago abdicated any semblance of human compassion/understanding but rather as the unfortunate unforeseen outgrowths of said war criminals' misunderstandings of geopolitics/history.

Americans in general may be fucking stupid but THAT stupid? All of them? For that long? About information that is readily available online and in print?

I don't want to endanger Professor Petro's tenure but he could write just one more essay his ENTIRE CAREER about US foreign policy and what American leaders should understand/do. It'd be one sentence long and he'd just have to change the country name for each iteration:

My Last Essay

by Nicolai Petro

To improve the conditions in [insert country here], the United States should quit fucking instigating murderous war criminal activity in [insert country here] as this would best play to [insert country here]'s long history of not wanting to have a arrogant murderous foreign nation commit crimes within its borders.

The End.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 9 2014 17:20 utc | 2

You hit the nail on the head, JSorrentine. Petro's wondering why USG keeps on making "mistakes" in the Ukraine is like Robert Parry being puzzled that the NY Times keeps on doing sloppy reporting about countries that the US itching to attack.

As for b's implicit question:

I am slowly coming to the opinion that the Kiev government and its CIA handlers are intentionally pouring oil into the fire. Do they know what they are doing?

I guess b doesn't read the Saker. One of Saker's theories (I don't think he claims that it's probably true) is that the CIA and western Ukraini elite know that they could never have a stable country within its present borders unless they give up their extremist anti-Russian policies. They'd rather hang on to the latter than preserve the present borders of the Ukraine. So, since they know they can't hang on to the southeast, they intentionally pour oil into the fire" to provoke a Russian intervention, so that they could then blame the breakup of the Ukraine on Russia.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 17:49 utc | 3

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 9, 2014 1:20:33 PM | 2

I agree. Looking at the twitter feed of the US embassy I would say the US still tries to get Russia to invade so they then can get West Ukrainian crazies to start a Guerilla war.

So the forces that are trained in Kiev and Western Ukraine employ the guerilla war techniques that don't make sense in the situation.

Whilst Russia waits for the second wave of the revolution - which will come if the "Kyiv government" cannot fulfill any promises.

As Russians have been bored stiff with the history of the Bolschewiks in school books they - and the older Ukrainian generation - know everything about the dynamics of it and they have role models no end. If this is allowed to run full course it will be the end of the oligarchs, too.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 17:50 utc | 4


Yep, Hitler had jews, kiev facist government have russians.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 18:00 utc | 5

Why is the coup government exaggerating the number of dead?

The reason is their Amerikan pay masters pay by the body, I'm guessing.

Posted by: jo6pac | May 9 2014 18:08 utc | 6

here's a little bit more seeping into the MSM. I'll only ever hear about these articles from comment threads and independent sites in the future. I was long lost to MSM but this Ukraine business put the final nail in every last one of them. And this author knows this, and points to a current watershed, a pivot time for public trust in media.

Samantha Power’s brazen hypocrisy: Media swallows propaganda, but here’s the truth about Ukraine -

Posted by: Grieved | May 9 2014 18:11 utc | 7


Posted by: john | May 9 2014 18:13 utc | 8

The video from Mariupol makes it seem as if the junta has recruited drunken teenagers, bent on a destructive "joyride," to operate the tanks. This is not a coordinated effort to take the city. This is terrorism.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 9 2014 18:19 utc | 9

@Anonymous #5:

On that topic, see the following, if you haven't read it yet:

Saker: Ukrainian nationalism - its roots and nature

Optional reading:

Follow up to my post about the roots and nature of Ukrainian nationalism

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 18:20 utc | 10


They want to show that they are powerful enough to deter the 'terrorists' by killing 20. It is naive and ridiculous. It just shows that the Kiev junta has no clue whatsoever on how to deal with a situation that seems to have taken them and their western supporters by surprise. It is always astonishing to see how little the West knows about people possible reaction's in the countries that they wish to shape to fit their hegemonic desires.
Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt and now Ukraine show the level of either cynicism or plain incompetence of the West foreign policies and their media.

Posted by: Virgile | May 9 2014 18:22 utc | 11

So on Victory Day the Nazis' hell spawn return to remind all of those bored students what exactly is at stake when fascist haters go unchecked. Huh.

Now there's an object lesson for you. Brings to life all of that sterile book learning concerning long ago history. Turns out that it isn't so long ago after all.

Do these Gallician asswipes have any idea what they are playing at?

Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | May 9 2014 18:22 utc | 12

somebody | May 9, 2014 1:50:19 PM | 4

At least some of the "bored stiff with the history of the Bolschewiks" russians will remember the role, the Dulles - brothers played in the installation of a weak, much hated and brutal puppet-regime under Ngô Đình Diệm in South Vietnam. Within three years it hat pummelled nearly all the local gentry outside Saigon to a reservoir for former quite weak and disorganized Viet Minh. This was a gambit JFK refused to play and when JFK was killed, Johnson led the opening to middleplay with the Gulf of Tonkin false flag.
Phase 1 is much the same with Yatseniuk and (perhaps) Parubij. Any kind of dissent with the puppet regime and their masters will be "russian terrorism" and pauperization caused by ending of russian gas-flow and russian taking of east ukraine, even if the RF takes nothing more than commodities, as they did before. The Kind of terrorism executed in Mariupol, especially the bombing of local authorities in police HQ, annexes the eastern oblasts to russia without russian action, will or consent.

And this is not very difficult to discern, somebody, hm?

Posted by: TomGard | May 9 2014 18:30 utc | 13

It is funny. Actually it is not. But interesting how this is intentionally framed.

English wikipedia makes Pavel Gubarev - who was freed in a hostage exchange, and presumably is the leader of the Donbass uprising supported by Russia a pan slavist nationalist/fascist apart from being a member of the "pro-Russian" Progressive Socialist Party which English Wikipedia describes as communist.

Gubarev is an advocate of Pan-Slavism.[4] Gubarev was a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group

German wikipedia has different information.

Here the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine is simply a split of the Socialist Party of Ukraine, had supported Yanukovich in 2010 and supports the entry of Ukraine to the Eurasian Union and neither NATO nor EU.

Her founder - in German - is a member of the Russian National Front which is a Russian civil society union.

In English Wikipedia she is a member of Dugin's Eurasian Union.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 18:33 utc | 14

Why use these tactics? Perhaps the soldiers (Pravyi Sektor hooligans?) had been told they would be welcomed with flowers. Assuming the APC broke down, and looking at video 3, it would seem they had a better chance of being lynched.

Posted by: dh | May 9 2014 18:48 utc | 15

@somebody #13:

English Wikipedia is infested with rabid Uki nationalists living in Canada. They take every opportunity to slip something anti-Russian in into the Ukraine articles, regardless of whether there's any truth to it.

@Grieved #7:

Patrick Smith is about the only person worth reading at Salon these days, but I think that he's wrong in claiming that Morsi was Egypt's Yanukovych. I think a better analogy is that Morsi was Egypt's Yatsenyuk, with the Muslim Brotherhood being the equivalent of Right Sector and Svoboda. Patrick is convinced, based on a single NY Times story, that the USG was behind the coup that removed Morsi, but that's not at all clear. An alternative account is that Morsi wanted to invade Turkey, and the Egyptian generals removed him for that reason. Morsi pursued neoliberal policies, unlike Yanukovych, but like Yatsenyuk. Because he wanted to join in the USG's covert war on Syria, and because he accepted the Washington Consensus on economic policy, Morsi was Washington's man, so Washington had no reason to remove him.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 18:52 utc | 16

thanks for the update b. thanks for the article as well. regarding his point 5. "Labeling protesters in the East and South “pro-Russian” and “separatists.”
i think the idea with the help of the cia - a very american approach - is to label them terrorists. then you can do whatever the fuck you want with them with no concern for any type of judicial process.

i disagree with jsores overview for this reason.. someone coming out and stating the absolute "TRUTH" is a bit of a joke in real life. it is like someone saying they found "GOD" and everyone else ought to just wake the fuck up. shit happens in stages. not everyone can be a member of the 'fanaticleft'.. you have to make room for those in the middle including those in the fakeleft too, lol..

Posted by: james | May 9 2014 18:54 utc | 17

Who would win the May 25th presidential election? Poroshenko? A possible compromise candidate between Germany and Ukraine (and against the crazy interests of the US neocons)?

The current attacks by so called Ukrainian army are not serious, they are just plain terrorist provocations and useless harassment.

Posted by: ThePaper | May 9 2014 19:05 utc | 19

People here that live in europe should vote for Russia tommorow in the eurovision contest just to irk obama, nato et.c :)

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 19:19 utc | 20

Posted by: Demian | May 9, 2014 2:52:17 PM | 15

My take is he was removed by an Israeli/Saudi Arabian/Egypt army/Russian collaboration.
What ended the US Muslim brotherhood strategy was the attack on the embassy in Benghazi.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 19:21 utc | 21

You hit the nail on the head.Dont forget the European states whish depend on this fucking
barbarian 2.0 version of hegemony and always play the good cop.And ironically every time the US fucks up so badly you can see a wave of anti-Americanism in europe.Its not only the "US war criminals - who have long ago abdicated any semblance of human compassion/understanding" but rather all the people in the so called free world who vote this asholes and more important pay for them with taxes and thair dignity.
Imagine one of this exidents in the last 25years (Yoguslavia,Irak,9/11,Irak,Afghanistan,Colour+Arab Revolutions,Syria)had happened in one of the NAM-Nations.

Posted by: Some1 | May 9 2014 19:24 utc | 22

plus 19) the above Forbes link on Benghazi also fits the situation with Kiev Fascists

I believe there is one overarching question that we, as a free nation citizenry, must grapple with. Do we approve of policies that aid and abet terrorist organizations (as defined by our own State Department) and their associates to overthrow leaders, some of whom have been our allies, through secret decrees accomplished outside of congressional authority? Like it or not, this is exactly what is happening.

Herein lies the real danger. Islamists have been broadcasting hostile intentions against the U.S. and our facilities for years. For Islamists involved in the Arab Spring, democracy is a tactic… not end goal. Their hope is to use a democracy theme to gain control of government, dismantle the very institutions and laws established to prevent tyranny, and then grab power.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 19:25 utc | 23

I would suggest that a broader view of US strategy is to weaken all of Europe and bring it back in line of dependence on the US.

Posted by: BakerPete | May 9 2014 19:34 utc | 24

By sowing chaos across great swathes of the world (which is quite inexpensive to do) the American elite keeps the general population under control. The general public is provided, through the MSM, evidence of how much better off and safer they are in the US. Who's going to cause trouble?

Posted by: BakerPete | May 9 2014 19:39 utc | 25

Kiew appointed Kherson mayor tries to explain to Kherson inhabitants that Hitler had tried to save them from communism.

German translation of the speech in the description below the video.

Germany supports this putsch government.

People throughout the video keep shouting "shame". I agree.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 19:40 utc | 26

Hello b, any idea why the "armed anti-Kiev protesters" occupied the police station in Mariupol on "such a sensible day"?

Posted by: J.R. | May 9 2014 19:57 utc | 27


Why wouldnt they storm the neo nazi regime police, on this day?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 19:58 utc | 28

re 19. You joke. Morsi was removed by the Egyptian military, who control 40% of the economy. They were not about to lose their control. Other factors, as you mention, were supplementary.

Posted by: Alexno | May 9 2014 19:59 utc | 29

Posted by: Alexno | May 9, 2014 3:59:16 PM | 27

The US did not object. That's what the other factions were needed for.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 20:02 utc | 30

@ b: "I am slowly coming to the opinion that the Kiev government and its CIA handlers are intentionally pouring oil into the fire."

Gee b, ya' think?

Posted by: ben | May 9 2014 20:04 utc | 31

I've watched the video of the Nazi mayor's speech. The most striking element is that many shouted in opposition, but only one - a young woman with a baby - went and tried to act, taking away the guy's microphone. Some goons manhandled her in front of the crowd, baby and all, and yet they did not all surge forward to help her out. The guy went on with his speech.

I guess that's symbolic of society at large - one in three hundred maybe feels personally called upon to act, the others are sheep bleating in outrage and cowardice. Not very encouraging.

Shame indeed.

Posted by: Austrian | May 9 2014 20:05 utc | 32

@Alexno #27:

And you know that the military were "about to lose their control" if Morsi stayed in power how, exactly?

@somebody #28:

Erdogan needs to go the way of Morsi. Unfortunately, unlike Morsi, Erdogan has purged a lot of generals, so that probably won't happen anytime soon.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 20:13 utc | 33

The nazi mayor video didnt make any sense with subs. Around 4 he starts talking about Gaza too?
We need a proper translation here.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 20:15 utc | 34


I fully agree with you. When the Egyptian army commanders realized that Morsi was going to take away from them a large share of the industries they have been controling and benefitting grandly of for decaded, they decided it was time to kick him out as they knew they had the enthusiastic support of the GCC minus Qatar.
Morsi was not a smart diplomat. He was totally overwhelmed by the complexity of the political games in the region ( Iran, Saudi Arabia, USA, Qatar, Syria etc..)

Posted by: Virgile | May 9 2014 20:16 utc | 35

@Austrian #30:

Thanks for watching the video for me. I had to stop watching it because Ukrainian sounds so awful.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 20:16 utc | 36

Bald provocation, blaming the separatists and Russia for the Crimea massacre, is what the U.S. neocon embassy in Kiev is into these days:

As many of you said, this is not stupidity. It's what Victoria Nuland wants, and she's the boss. What she likely wants first is the May 24 election to take place in most of Ukraine, and she wants to make a shambles of the autonomy/independence referendum in the Donbass. The not-so-petty harassment and intimidation in that region is about the latter.

I also think Nuland has come to understand that she has to incorporate the Pravy Sektor and Svoboda onto her 'team', cuz they're killers. And you can only do that by incorporating their goal of the destruction and removal of the Russian ethnicity and its language from Ukraine. This evil goal, if worked at slowly but steadily, can be achieved over two or three decades. I don't know if neocons think in those lengthy time spans. Hopefully they'll rush things and provoke a very strong reaction that breaks up Ukraine.

Posted by: fairleft | May 9 2014 20:18 utc | 37

Posted by: Austrian | May 9, 2014 4:05:47 PM | 30

You can be sure he had body guards around him. You don't want to start a brawl with your grandparents present. People there were dressed up for a memorial.

The woman was using her kid as human shield.

NATO is shocked, absolutely shocked by Putin's methods

The operation has been described by local intelligence officials as "soft power with a hard edge" and includes a range of Cold War espionage tools. His Baltic neighbors say, for example, that he has deployed agents provocateurs to stir up their minority ethnic Russian groups which make up 25% of the population in Estonia and as much as 40% of the population in Latvia. They say he has established government-controlled humanitarian front organizations in their capitals, infiltrated their security services and energy industry companies, instigated nationalist riots and launched cyber attacks. The goal, says the Estonian Ambassador to the U.S., Marina Kaljurand, is "to restore in one form or another the power of the Russian Federation on the lands where Russian people live."

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 20:20 utc | 38

re 28. The US did not object.

As you say, the US position was secondary.

Posted by: Alexno | May 9 2014 20:21 utc | 39

Posted by: Virgile | May 9, 2014 2:22:15 PM | 10

I totally agree;)

Posted by: jo6pac | May 9 2014 20:22 utc | 40

There are any number of possible explanations of the policy being pursued by the Right Sector in eastern Ukraine.
One of them mentioned here weeks ago is, in some ways the most obvious: western Ukraine could not survive as an autonomous state. It would almost certainly be swallowed up by Poland. If this is the case then one explanation of what look like attempts to split off the east is that the Poles are behind it.
The truth is that Ukraine has never been an independent state in the modern era. For most of the time it has been part of the Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom, which since the successive partitions of the C18th has been split between the three Empires, Russia, Prussia and Austria.
In "A Personal Record" the Polish born author Joseph Conrad recalls the mutual hatred he saw around him when he revisited his ancestral estates in the Governorate of Kiev. The peasants seized on every opportunity that Polish nationalism gave them to attack the houses of the Polish landowners who exploited them-under Tsarist government-so ruthlessly.

Posted by: bevin | May 9 2014 20:28 utc | 41

Demian @15
" An alternative account is that Morsi wanted to invade Turkey, and the Egyptian generals removed him for that reason."

Syria I presume you mean? Not Turkey, surely?

Posted by: bevin | May 9 2014 20:32 utc | 42

For the occasion of Victory in World War II Day, the Saker has come out with an expression of quasi-religious Russian nationalism. I am not going to link to it.

Like Andrei Fursov (linked at #8), Saker claims that Nazism is inherently Western. That the Ukrainians have picked up where the Nazis left off would seem to contradict that.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 20:33 utc | 43

* The raid was done by National Guard - the newly created force of Maidan activists, nationalists and assorted hoodlums. They were organized specifically to terrorize Russian population, and most of the attacks are done by them. They often wear black uniforms; army wears green. The army is very lukewarm about the whole civil war, at most they man roadblocks. Thus poor training of attackers.

* The siege organizers have a deadline of 11th - the referendum date. We might see increasingly stupid and erratic violence tomorrow. Maybe even artillary strikes against cities. Anyway, the APCs also scouted approaches to city schools - apparently they planned to raid them on 11th to disrupt voting.

Posted by: Andrey Subbotin | May 9 2014 20:35 utc | 44

@bevin #40:

Sorry. Yea, Syria, of course. Morsi makes me think of Erdogan. Both are Islamicists.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 20:36 utc | 45

The important point to retain is that it doesn't cost the US anything to impose sanctions. Only the EU pays.

Posted by: Alexno | May 9 2014 20:47 utc | 46

@Bevin #40:

The Poles being behind this is the most interesting thing I've heard all day. I don't suppose you have any evidence? I wonder if ProPeace has views on that; he's a Pole living in Poland, isn't he?

I think the best outcome at this point would be for Ukraine to be absorbed by Russia and Poland, with some small western parts possibly going to countries like Slovakia. The Poles could serve to allay the virulent hatred held by nationalist Ukrainians for Russians and all things Russian. Poles don' like Russians of course; but I'm not sure they dislike Russians more than they dislike Germans. For all I know, they may dislike everyone but the Americans, whom they see as their benefactors. Poles and Russians know how to live with each other, but these Kiev nationalists are just completely crazy.

It is at times like these that I miss having Nora around…

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 20:50 utc | 47

OT but can anyone direct me to that video showing the aftermath of the trade building massacre? It was posted here the other day but I can't find it now. TIA

Posted by: L Bean | May 9 2014 20:56 utc | 48

Poland plans to reform military brigade with Ukraine and Lithuania

Poland’s defence ministry has announced it will re-launch plans to establish a joint Polish, Ukrainian and Lithuanian military brigade.

The ministry said defence ministers will meet this week to discuss the formation of the brigade that would straddle Nato’s eastern border and bring Ukraine’s armed forces closer to the Western fold.

Plans for a joint brigade had originally been struck in 2009 but had failed to make significant progress due to foot-dragging by Ukraine’s previous government, and difficulties in Polish-Lithuanian relations.

But the Ukraine crisis appears to have provided fresh momentum to the organisation of the brigade.

“Last week Ukraine’s deputy defence minister visited Nato headquarters and returned to the idea of the Polish-Ukrainian-Lithuanian brigade,” said Pawel Kowal, a Polish MEP who, in 2007, was the first to advocate the benefits of forming the multi-national brigade.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 21:04 utc | 49

@ 47

Netanyahoo is Lithuanian, isn't he?

Posted by: crone | May 9 2014 21:23 utc | 50

Christ, do these poles never stop?! Such a pathetic warmongering regime.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 21:26 utc | 51

Another day, another fascist massacre in East Ukraine. Another round of anti-Russia propaganda from the US, Germany and the EU. Another - 1000s? - waking up globally to the reality, what it is, what we're gonna have to fight, and that we are gonna have to fight it out in the streets. People standing in front of tanks and APCs, no weapons, it's cool, but we must arm ourselves and defend ourselves. From the streets of Mariupol to Washington, DC, and then on to Red Square.

Power to the people!

Posted by: anonymous | May 9 2014 21:26 utc | 52

@somebody - #13

Agents SSU arrest Pavel Gubarev in Donetsk

Popular uprising looming in eastern Ukraine

(RT) - Early Thursday morning [06.03.2014] a special group of the Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) that arrived from Kiev conducted a hit-and-run operation and arrested Pavel Gubarev on charges of an attempt of power seizure, an exactly the same accusation used by the opposition leader against the self-proclaimed government in Kiev.

See my earlier post here.

Posted by: Oui | May 9 2014 21:57 utc | 53

Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) slogan in Eastern Galicia: "Poles beyond the San" – 1944

Ethnic cleansing of Poles in Volhynia and Galicia

Posted in my diary - Ukraine's Holodomor of 1933 and the Maidan Revolution.

Nazi Collaboration by Banderists in East Galicia

Posted by: Oui | May 9 2014 22:10 utc | 54

Kiev-appointed Governor from Tymoshenko's party: Hitler had good motives. Mostly a Google translation of the German at the youtube site:

Kherson, Ukraine
Traditional rally, end of the Homeland War, liberation from fascism
Governor of Kherson - Mr. Odartschenko (Fatherland Party):

“Dear friends, today on Victory Day we remember the events that took place during the Homeland War. We remember how people fought against aggressors attempting to occupy their country. The armies of the aggressors justified occupying foreign territories and making people slaves. Their main justification was that they were liberating the people living in the territories that Hitler was planning to occupy. If you deal with the history, and on television, there are many films on the subject ... His [Hitler’s] main goal was to free the people from communist oppression and the tyrant Stalin.

(People chanting shame shame!)

That was the original motivation for Hitler to attack and attempting to occupy an independent state. But people were able to unite and defend their homeland. You have shown to the aggressor that we can and will fight back for our homeland. The same thing is happening today at the borders of Ukraine. The aggressor attempts, under the pretext ... that here people would be suppressed ... trying ...”

(Woman with child rips the mic and throws it away, people still chanting “Shame!”)

Posted by: fairleft | May 9 2014 22:23 utc | 55

Wow, thanks for that, fairleft. (I can't view YouTube subtitles on my Unix box.)

I had no idea it was that bad. (Although I should have realized, because gathering people into a building and then burning them alive in it was one way that Nazis murdered people. I forget what the name of the Belorussian city is where the Nazis did that.)

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 22:28 utc | 56

not everyone can be a member of the 'fanaticleft'.. you have to make room for . . . those in the fakeleft too, lol..

Posted by: james | May 9, 2014 2:54:38 PM | 16

And even for those in the Clueless Ass-Clown Left (C.A.C.L.***) too, by golly :)


*** Pronounced "cackle" apparently, or so i'm reliably informed by my alleged MI6 paymasters

Posted by: lol | May 9 2014 23:00 utc | 57

True to form, the western war criminals spin a tale that is 180 degrees away from reality:

Link to US blames Russia as Kiev unleashes armored vehicles against civilians

And randomly fire on kids to create terror:

Link to Child wearing St. George's ribbon shot in Slavyansk

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 23:01 utc | 58

@54: The Holocaust in Belarus:

The Battalion Dirlewanger on July 21, 1943, during Operation Hermann, chased the inhabitants of the village of Dory together with the priest into a church and burned them alive there. Only men able to work were let out of the church, women only if they left their children behind. At another place hundreds of selected children, two to ten years old, were locked in freight cars and left to their fate until half of them had died. While von Schenkendorff in 1942 called for measures against the soldiers, the generally organized sequence of the destruction of villages shows how little was left to chance.

Posted by: lysias | May 9 2014 23:03 utc | 59

@lysias #57:

Thanks for that. That made me do a Google news search, which produced this:

Frants Klintsevich, deputy chair of the Duma Defence Committee, drew historical parallels with the current events in Ukraine.

“The European Union and America refuse to understand the explosive situation in Ukraine and do not want to figure out what is good and what is bad because they simply can’t benefit from that. They want a civil war,” he said.

Klintsevich recalled that “during the Great Patriotic War [1941-1945], SS battalions manned with Ukrainian nationalists commanded by fascists destroyed the village of Khatyn in Belarus, burning the elderly, women and children alive”.

“Practically 70 years on, the decedents of those fascists did the same. They blocked people inside the Trade Union House and set it on fire,” he said.

“Why does Europe support such atrocities?” the MP asked.

Wikipedia: Khatyn massacre

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 23:27 utc | 60

Not only war criminals in full nazi style, the subhumans running the west, and those they use as their puppets, are incredibly petty and vindictive.

Link to Medical jet due to pick up badly wounded RT stringer denied landing in Ukraine

"A German medical jet which was to be hired by RT TV channel in order to pick up RT’s stringer, critically wounded during a military operation in Mariupol, was denied landing in the eastern Ukrainian city, gripped by unrest.

A 23-year-old cameraman on RT’s Ruptly team was wounded during the armed assault of Kiev’s army on Mariupol police HQ on Friday. Currently he is fighting for his life in hospital, doctors say that he is in a serious condition. In spite of his bulletproof vest the cameraman sustained a serious injury in the abdomen."

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 23:36 utc | 61


On 10 June, Diekmann's battalion sealed off Oradour-sur-Glane, having confused it with nearby Oradour-sur-Vayres, and ordered all the townspeople – and anyone who happened to be in or near the town – to assemble in the village square, ostensibly to have their identity papers examined. In addition to the residents of the village, the SS also apprehended six people who did not live there but had the misfortune to be riding their bikes through the village when the Germans arrived.

All the women and children were locked in the church while the village was looted. Meanwhile, the men were led to six barns and sheds where machine guns were already in place.

According to the account of a survivor, the soldiers began shooting at them, aiming for their legs so that they would die slowly. Once the victims were no longer able to move, the soldiers covered their bodies with fuel and set the barns on fire. Only six men escaped; one of them was later seen walking down a road heading for the cemetery and was shot dead. In all, 190 men perished.

The soldiers proceeded to the church and placed an incendiary device there. After it was ignited, women and children tried to escape through the doors and windows of the church, but they were met with machine-gun fire. A total of 247 women and 205 children died in the carnage. Only 47-year-old Marguerite Rouffanche survived. She slid out by a rear sacristy window, followed by a young woman and child.[3] All three were shot; Marguerite Rouffanche was wounded and her companions were killed. She crawled to some pea bushes behind the church, where she remained hidden overnight until she was rescued the following morning. Another group of about twenty villagers had fled Oradour-sur-Glane as soon as the soldiers had appeared. That night, the village was partially razed.

The SS unit involved in this atrocity in France (part of the Das Reich division) had earlier served on the Eastern front, most recently in 1943 in the retaking of Kharkov and the aborted attack on the Kursk salient.

Posted by: lysias | May 10 2014 0:02 utc | 62

OT (but not entirely). I just watched Zero: An Investigation Into 9/11, which is recommended by Paul Craig Roberts. I would say that everyone should watch it. Here is one fact it mentioned that I didn't know, as explained by Robin Cook:

Bin Laden was … a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, those people were sent to Kosovo. Now, instead of mujahideen, the USG is using Ukrainian neo-Nazis to try to defeat the Russians.

Posted by: Demian | May 10 2014 0:25 utc | 64

Civilians gunned down in Mariupol.

Posted by: misha | May 10 2014 0:49 utc | 65

Link to The Ukrainian Banderastan - as ugly as it is pathetic

This entire mini-civil war is constantly oscillating between being a farce and an abomination.

Yesterday I saw a video of Yulia Timoshenko warning Putin that the glorious Ukrainian people will topple his regime, I kid you not. As for Nuland's favorite Ukie - "Iats" - he was on the "frontlines" somewhere near Slaviansk "encouraging to troops".

But my all time favorite is a guy called Oleg Liashko, a flamboyant "pedo-cum-homo sexual" (now "married" to a Russian woman) who dresses in fashionable black "kind of combat" fatigues and then interrogates captured "terrorists" like TV producers or, more recently, an "ex minister of Defense" of the Donetsk Republic. Then the videos are uploaded to YouTube, apparently in preparation for the upcoming Presidential election (to bolster Liashko's macho credentials I suppose).

Liashko is just one particularly colorful specimen from a full gallery of freaks. If you are interested, I can introduce you to some other rather amazing Ukie nationalists like the notorious Irina Farion (an ex-commie turned nationalist) or Valentin Nalivaichenko, probably the highest ranking CIA agent in the current junta.

Several times I have referred to this regime as a "freak show" and I did not mean that as an insult, but as a statement of fact. The folks which have seized power in Kiev are quite literally freaks and so far, they have not succeeded in doing anything at all. Nothing.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 1:01 utc | 66

@Demian #62

I avoided 9/11 until Snowden - and whatever he is in terms of the secret picture, the sheer scale of what he revealed enlarged the scale of what I realized the US was capable of. Because of Snowden, suddenly everything was true.

So I had some backtracking to do. For 9/11, the 5-hour documentary "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" was available for free download (here) and that was perfect to bring me up to speed - I recommend it for anyone who hasn't watched it.

Thanks for the info, I'll look for Zero.

Posted by: Grieved | May 10 2014 1:07 utc | 67

@52 Think of the bullshit that surrounds these events in the West today. Do you dare to imagine it was easier to divine the facts in the 30s?

Grover Furr – The “Holodomor” is a myth. Never happened. This myth was invented by pro-fascist Ukrainian nationalists, along with the Nazis. Douglas Tottle demonstrated in his book “Fraud, Famine and Fascism” (1988). Arch Getty, one of the best historians bourgeois (ie, no Marxist and non-communist), also has a good article on this. Robert Conquest is what gives the old version that the Soviets deliberately caused the famine in Ukraine. No shred of evidence that might confirm this vision, so such a test has never come to light. The myth of the “Holodomor” persists because it is the “founding myth” of rights of Ukrainian nationalism. Ukrainian nationalists invaded the USSR along with the Nazis killed millions of people, including many Ukrainians. His only “excuse” is the propaganda lie that “freedom fighters” against the Soviet communists, who were “worse than Nazis.”

Posted by: ruralito | May 10 2014 1:18 utc | 68

. . . hate to say it, but America / EU has lost before it started. EU lost by playing the US game. The problem with America is, the best Americans have always been the anti-Americans, i.e., criminals, revolutionaries . . . Thomas Paine, Fred Hampton, Edward Snowden . . . and the Native Americans pretty much blow them all away. But when it comes to the political, corporate Americans, they are fucked when it comes to competing with Russians. The State Department should read the Guardian comments. If they can discern which comments are actually coming from Russians, they will find that the Russians are smarter, more creative, kinder, etc. Notably, they are more honest. They will tell you straight up that Spetznaz GRU and volunteers are on the ground. They tell you straight up that Russia will never cede those territories and cities. And they are more generous, they are happy to live in a world with the West, they have no interest in empire or death. The US and the EU are fucked.

Posted by: anonymous | May 10 2014 1:21 utc | 69

It is very, very difficult to see some all intelligent guiding hand directing US foreign policy. What we are seeing today is that Obama has lost control of events. His policies were mostly inherited from what came before. Today he and Kerry are struggling to give it some coherence. The failures are just too frequent right now to think there is any strategic coherence at all. This is the background to current Ukraine crisis. The US lost the war in Iraq (i.e. failed in its objectives, the Iraqis also lost big time, it was Iran who emerged stronger). We all know how our Syrian policy has flopped and Assad, in spite of numerous claims US leaders that Assad was done, is going to win his war. Libya we "won", but the country is now in the process of breaking apart and our allies their in Benghazi killed our ambassador. We have zero influence over events there so it is hard to define that as victory. Even such an insignificant piece of real estate of South Sudan (that US intervention carved out of Sudan) has turned into a total fiasco. Kerry's efforts to mediate the Israel/Palestine conflict is in complete taters. Obama's much heralded pivot to Asia (to contain China) looks like a complete joke.

So where does Ukraine fit into this picture. I have thought from the beginning that Obama and Kerry did not want to see this crisis. Where they failed is that they let a neocon control the state department portfolia on Eurasian affairs. That was inherited policy and Obama and Kerry know they own it. That has spun out of control. So how does the admin deal with it. The only rational thing is to accept Russia's suggestions for a negotiated settlement, which federalism and neutrality for Ukraine. Big problem here. To accept the Russian offer would be to admit that US policy towards Russia and Ukraine was a big mistake from the beginning. If we tried now to reverse our policies in Ukraine, the ultra right wing forces would rebel and probably reveal that the coup government we set up does not control the armed militias on the ground.

If that were revealed it could only be interpreted as another major blunder by the US and also seen as a defeat for the US. The US is on a losing streak right now and cannot afford to be seen as a loser in Ukraine. After all, Ukraine is a much bigger strategic objective than are all of the other failed examples listed above. Even all of the states in the EU would be forced to admit that they are being led by a paper tiger. The stakes in this game are even bigger than Ukraine. Why it is US "credibility" though out the whole world!

Posted by: ToivoS | May 10 2014 1:34 utc | 70

@anon #67 - thanks, that was good to hear

More (heartening) real life on the ground in two videos:

The celebration in Slaviansk, despite the bullshit. Note Pavel Gubarev, the "people-elected governor" of the Donetsk region speaking: Slaviansk

Then, in the city of Zaporozhie, where the parade was canceled and forbidden, one guy holds it anyway: and the crowd went wild (relatively)

People - you gotta love 'em

Posted by: Grieved | May 10 2014 1:42 utc | 71

sorry here's the link to the the one-man parade

Posted by: Grieved | May 10 2014 1:44 utc | 72

@66: Re the Holodomor, I just happen to be reading at the moment Margret Boveri's Wir lügen alle: Eine Hauptstadtzeitung unter Hitler, about her experiences as a writer for the Berliner Tageblatt in the 1930's. I have just gotten to her chapter on Paul Scheffer, who was editor of the BT from 1933 to 1937. He happens to have been the BT correspondent in Moscow in the 1920's. I have just gotten to articles of his from 1929 and 1930 that very much confirm the reality of the Holodomor.

Ironically, Scheffer was a friend of Walter Duranty, the New York Times correspondent who notoriously denied the reality of the famine.

The Berliner Tageblatt, by the way, was the leading liberal newspaper in Berlin under Weimar.

Posted by: lysias | May 10 2014 2:00 utc | 73

@Joe6pac The reason is their Amerikan pay masters pay by the body, I'm guessing.

Indeed. Just like in Colombia.

Posted by: guest77 | May 10 2014 2:00 utc | 74

Both the USA and the EU whined and bitched like schoolgirls about Putin going to Sevastopol for the Victory Day celebration, calling it a provocation. You really have wonder about the freaks put in leadership roles in the west. They only seem capable of two modes: pathological lying and obnoxious "New York waiter syndrome". A combination of this and, er....this.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 2:09 utc | 75

@lysias: "I have just gotten to articles of his from 1929 and 1930 that very much confirm the reality of the Holodomor." I don't think anyone denies that a famine occured. I think what people deny is that it was a planned, premeditated genocide against the Ukrainian people. People also have a problem with numbers like those of Robert Conquest (oh, the company you keep...) who inflate the numbers millions past anything even the Orange Revolution kangaroo court on the subject could rig up.

That's all. No one is saying "it did not happen". But it is a nice thing for people to say other people are saying.

Posted by: guest77 | May 10 2014 2:19 utc | 76

Damn l.o.l, this Ukrainian Nazi mayor is stealing your best bits: "Hitler had tried to save them from communism." He probably followed with "The Nazis only stayed 4 years! What's wrong with that?!"

Have you considered, given the severity of the copyright infringement, going all J "boom goes the dynamite" Sorrentine on him? Because that was really not very f'king retarded at all.

Posted by: guest77 | May 10 2014 2:19 utc | 77

This Week's Comment w/ George Galloway.

Posted by: guest77 | May 10 2014 2:46 utc | 78


You’ve got it exactly right. In addition to his Russian reset being tossed aside, Barrack Obama was humiliated when Vladimir Putin forced him to back down from bombing Syria. From the facial expressions and postures, these are two men who do not like each other. It may border on hatred.

The USA is acting like it is in a hot war with Russia. The media has not mentioned it, but I am sure a Presidential Directive has been signed placing Russia on the list of States targeted for regime change; joining Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea for not kowtowing to Washington DC.

The neo-liberal/neo-conservative deep state is pushing war across the globe. Chaos has spread to Europe. North America is next. With the pull back of troops, Russia has avoided a nuclear war for a while, but not forever. The only way mankind will survive is to take sovereignty from the Elite and return it to the people.

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 10 2014 3:03 utc | 79

@71, read this while your at it

The starving girl, it turns out, wasn't found in 1932 or 1933, nor in the Ukraine. Her pictures was taken from a Red Cross bulletin on the 1921-22 Volga famine, for which no one claims genocide. Rather than an emblem of persecution, the photograph advances the most cynical of swindles -- a hoax played out from the White House and Congress through the halls of Harvard to the New York State Department of Education. Pressing every pedal, pulling all the strings, is a Ukrainian nationalist lobby straining to cloak its own history of Nazi collaboration. By revising their past, these émigrés help support a more ambitious revisionism: a denial of Hitler's holocaust against the Jews.

Posted by: ruralito | May 10 2014 3:04 utc | 80

John @ # 4 More of a meal than a tidbit John ‹(•¿•)› but well worth the effort. Cheers

Posted by: Chris in Ch-Ch | May 10 2014 3:06 utc | 81

Posted by: fairleft | May 9, 2014 6:23:29 PM | 53

In all fairness, I think the mayor is trying to make the following argument;
Every invader claims good intentions just as Hitler intended to free Ukraine from communism, now Putin claims to free suppressed Russians in Ukraine. The answer to all this is to fight for independence.

This argument would play well in West Ukraine where they celebrate Stepan Bandera an May 9, the mayor is utterly tone deaf and stupid to use it in South Eastern Ukraine where they remember different massacres - which incidentally involved a lot of burnt down houses.

As this is a war of images what do the images of those burning buildings signify in passed down memory? The "Kyiv government" is visually proving they are fascist.

The think tank "intellectuals" who have designed this for 20 years should be publicly exposed for ridicule.

This train wreck has been planned since the "Orange Revolution", Tymoshenko, who comes from Eastern Ukraine learning Ukrainian and wearing her symbolic braid is part of it. There are lots of EU think tanks based in Poland who worked on this kind of revisionist history to create "Ukrainian nationalism" only to find out now after all those years that it does not play that well in Ukraine's East and South.

There has been a very thorough Western attempt to turn the narrative and give to the Russians the role of the Nazis and to the Maidan the role of resistance fighters in league with Polish and Jewish people. There was lots of EU money spent on it, the German Heinrich Böll Stiftung of the Green Party got involved and lots of academic foundations.

All this intellectual dishonesty has now ended in "Kyiv" military punishment attacks against South Eastern Ukrainian cities.

And yes of course the newly formed "National Guard" gets provoked by "South Western" resistance just as Nazi atrocities were "provoked" by partisans.

But let's go to the legal talk. People have a right to fight against occupation and they have a right to fight against an illegal unconstitutional regime.

Having said all this, Russia does have a soft power problem as long as they are not prepared to discuss the dark sides Stalinism and Russian colonialism openly.

If Erdogan can offer condolences to Armenia after a hundred years, Putin should be able to do similar acts of understanding other people's feelings.

German politicians seem to think they can act unaware of the devastation Germany has wrought in Ukraine before. Someone should cure them of their amnesia before it is to late.

Posted by: somebody | May 10 2014 4:57 utc | 82

The west is trying to spin that the anti-coup protestors in Odessa were the ones behind the massacre there. Somehow, these people managed to recruit the acting police chief and a big chunk of the police force there. And if you believe that, I'll sell you the Tower Bridge, too. We were discussing the police chief who "decided" to disappear after being arrested/called in for questioning. It seems their "prime suspect is a man nicknamed Captain Cocoa. He was active in investigating pedos. This frame job by the nazis might have to do with their boy molesting Oleg Liashko freak. CC might have made an enemy of that freak. The famous and pretty chief prosecutor in Crimea is currently investigating Oleg Liashko for pedophilia. This article discusses the western propaganda about the massacre, as well as the missing police chief.

Link to Капитан Какао и его команда

Partial translation by Yandex.

Captain Cocoa and his team

In addition, on Thursday continued to develop the scandal surrounding the disappearance of the former acting head of the Department of internal Affairs in Odessa region, the head of the public security police Dmitry Fuchedzhi. It was his many believe the true organizer of the massacre in the House of trade unions.

On the eve of the Colonel wanted after escaping from [to - Transdenistra] Russia, said Wednesday the acting Minister of internal Affairs Arsen Avakov. However, observers noted that earlier the government reported that Fuchedzhi was detained. Conflicting reports have raised concerns that the Colonel could be really dead.

Regarding the likelihood that the ex-head of the Odessa police Dmitry Fuchedzhi escaped, there are big doubts. Odessa political consultant Vadim Acercas indicates that Colonel, as far as is known, silently obeyed Alexander Oak [Александру Дубовому] - MP and a close ally of Yulia Tymoshenko's representative in the region. Given that Tymoshenko is interested in disruption of the election campaign (as it loses Petro Poroshenko), under such statements some reason.

"The probability that Fuchedzhi killed secretly, very high. Dmitry Fuchedzhi, directly subordinate to the "guideline" Odessa security forces Oak, locked myself in position, the levers of execution of orders. Including those for which law enforcement officers had been dormant during the tragedy on 2 may," said Acercas.

"Oak is known to be one of the most approximate to Turchinov people. The scandal may seriously hurt positions Tymoshenko's rating is so low. Fuchedzhi knows (I am deliberately this time, as all sincerely hope that he is alive) a lot about events that may be of interest to international courts is from the beginning of the era avramidou in Ukraine and to "Odessa Khatyn". The power of such witness imperative inconvenient," said the expert.

Article too long to post entirely, the translation link for the rest:

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 5:10 utc | 83

Continued from Posted by: scalawag | May 10, 2014 1:10:56 AM | 81

I posted the translated info on the missing police chief, which is the last part of the article. The bulk of the article is a discussion of the nazi frame-up BS. Also, something went wrong with posting the link for the translation. It was cut off, though I know I wrote it out in the post. Here it is again, see if it goes through.

Link to Captain Cocoa and his team

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 5:18 utc | 84

The Washington Post is capable of understanding what Crimea's Putin speech means in the context of Russian history.

Angela Merkel came out against any May 9 parade in Crimea.

Der 9. Mai sei für Russland als Erinnerung an den Sieg über den Nationalsozialismus ein sehr wichtiges Datum, sagte die Kanzlerin in Berlin. "Ich finde es schade, wenn ein solcher Tag genutzt wird, um in einem solchen Spannungsfeld eine Parade abzuhalten.

Translation: May 9 is an important memory for Russia as victory over National Socialism, the chancellor said. I think it is a shame that such a day should be used for a parade in such an atmosphere of tension.

Concerning Ukraine, German politicians seem to suffer from amnesia. Whatever she was trying to do by saying this, she made things worse.

Posted by: somebody | May 10 2014 5:48 utc | 85

@somebody #80:

Russia does have a soft power problem as long as they are not prepared to discuss the dark sides Stalinism and Russian colonialism openly.

Wait, what's this all about? Are you saying that you won't be satisfied until you get Königsberg back?

Posted by: Demian | May 10 2014 6:05 utc | 86

The missing police chief had been taken Kiev before he disappeared.

Link to Глава Одесской ОГА назвал побег Фучеджи упущением украинских силовиков

The fact that the former deputy of Odessa regional police colonel Dmitry Fuchedzhi escaped - omission of Odessa and Kiev siloviki. This was stated by the newly appointed head of the Odessa Regional State Administration Igor Mace, passes Ukrinform.

"Disappearance Fuchedzhi not happened in the Odessa area, it happened in Kiev. If this was the case in the Odessa region, then I would've done any personnel conclusions, and I would ask them about the country's leadership. What happened in Kiev, I I do not understand. This brings some old mechanisms. I'm sure it will all be revealed, and the authorities that it is now investigating, we will tell the truth - I'd like to believe it, "- said Mace.

As reported by the "Observer", May 6 in the net there is information that the former head of the police department of the Odessa region detained and arrested.

May 7 Head of Research Affairs of Ukraine in Odessa region, Ivan Katerynchuk said that Fuchedzhi summoned for questioning.

Odessa later edition of "Timer" reported that Fuchedzhi is on the run.

Interior Ministry denies responsibility, stressing that Fuchedzhi already detained as a civilian.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 6:14 utc | 87

@8 john - the tidbit is Andrei Fursov's comments which have been posted to this site a few different times and in different formats, once by rowan berkeley and another time by someone else.. at any rate - a good overview for anyone who hasn't already seen it..

Posted by: james | May 10 2014 6:21 utc | 88

84) :-)9 not really. A lot of people were just victims nothing else. A lot of people were both - perpetrators and victims. It does not make sense to produce victims again.

I think Putin should open the archives - all of them. There is a hell of a lot to be learnt from them. He should also support real historians - not the type used for the corporate identity of Russia inc.

As the EU has been supporting some kind of anti-Russia inc. to do the real stuff would give him some soft power advantage - people are not stupid.

Anyway, here now are the real polls of Ukraine - you guessed it, they are a mess

French President François Hollande has warned of “chaos and risk of civil war” if the Ukrainian election is postponed. He added that Moscow had to be pressured to ensure the vote takes place to elect a president “legitimate in the eyes of all”.

But Hollande — with his own problem of how to recover votes from the muscular French right who would defeat him if a French election were called now — already knows the meaning of the Ukrainian poll. No outcome can be legitimate to all.

The whole poll is interesting. They really wanted to know what they are dealing with.

It also has the following interesting bit of information

If the presidential election goes ahead on May 25, half the voters of eastern Ukraine will not vote. Of the half who do, half will vote for the frontrunner and US-backed candidate, Petro Poroshenko.

So who from abroad is backing the present "Kyiv government"?

Posted by: somebody | May 10 2014 6:22 utc | 89

Red Cross staff have been detained in Donetsk on suspicion of espionage.

The one thing that's been exposed during the various crisis since the "Arab Spring" is the collusion/link between Western intelligence agencies and all the "feel good" "humanitarian" organizations.

In Syria, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Even UNHCR have been caught pants down on several occasions, fronting and coordinating with what will be considered terrorists organizations in any sane country.

In Syria, anywhere Red Cross or any of these "humanitarian" agencies visited to donate aid, terrorist attacks(car bombings, suicide attacks) increased in those areas.

I'm not surprised they're now viewed with suspicion anywhere they go. The fact that the West is prepare to destroy/abuse all forms of legal/legitimate international order/institutions shows how desperate they've become. The UN is now reduced to joke status. Nothing gets done without tacit US approval.

But I'm glad, because as this BS continues more and more countries will wissen-up and form their own organizations that work..

In other news, Ecuador orders USAID to get out of the country. USAID is heavily involved with the Maidan fascists.

Posted by: Zico | May 10 2014 6:48 utc | 90

What real polls? Businessinsider quote polls paid by Canada and formulation of questions and high likelihood of fake data makes them irrelevant. Or more accurately, relevant for West's propaganda to discredit upcoming voting ("outcome of the balloting to be held in Donetsk and Lugansk is already irrelevant to the majority of regional voters"), etc.

Posted by: Harry | May 10 2014 6:50 utc | 91

Posted by: somebody | May 10, 2014 1:48:14 AM | 83

Link to SOS

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 6:56 utc | 92

The hit and run makes perfect sense.

That's what you do when you don't have local political support.

Hit and hold, and you have several hundred Babushka's surrounding you, creating a siege.

Hit and run, and you attempt to wear down the Opfor, but too many civilian casualties , and you grow the Opfor.

Posted by: Jay | May 10 2014 7:13 utc | 93

Harry, my post agreeing with you about the absurdity disappeared. I was critical of the western dis-media and unfortunately compared it to [the sacred cow's media] reporting on Palestinian issues. That's twice today the a post was flagged for "evil" words or links. More MoA censorship, again. These kinds of "subtle" means to censor dialog is the usual on zionist "progressive" sites.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 7:16 utc | 94

Zico | May 10, 2014 2:48:19 AM | 88

You could also add to your list the case of the CIA infiltrating the vaccination program in Pakistan in order to collect blood samples in their search Bin Laden,s children. Exposure of that case has so discredited vaccination programs that Pakistan is seeing a resurgence in polio.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 10 2014 7:22 utc | 95

Posted by: Jay | May 10, 2014 3:13:09 AM | 91

"Hit and run, and you attempt to wear down the Opfor, but too many civilian casualties , and you grow the Opfor."

The opfor? WTF is that? Not all of the people looking in here are alumni of the US or Israel army.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 7:22 utc | 96

Posted by: scalawag | May 10, 2014 2:56:19 AM | 90

Yep, it is the obvious result. Problem is they support this type of narrative with their policy and their stupid ahistorical statements.

German politicians cannot win this. If they support Russia's position Poland will cry Hitler-Stalin.

It is an information war. For some reason, possibly sheer stupidity, possibly because they are not in control of their neo nazi backers, possibly because they find a split of parts of the country advantageous to their parochial interests, the visuals the "Kyiv governement" offers to the media help the Russian narrative.

Posted by: somebody | May 10 2014 7:29 utc | 97

Posted by: somebody | May 10, 2014 3:29:22 AM | 95

"If they support Russia's position Poland will cry Hitler-Stalin."

Poland has absolutely zero influence on anything.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 7:33 utc | 98

Like Ireland.

Posted by: scalawag | May 10 2014 7:34 utc | 99

Posted by: scalawag | May 10, 2014 3:16:05 AM | 92

It is an automatic filter. Have mercy on b. he cannot scrutinize every post by himself.

Posted by: Jay | May 10, 2014 3:13:09 AM | 91
Posted by: scalawag | May 10, 2014 3:22:43 AM | 94

Another word for it is collective punishment

Poland is the transatlantic outpost, remember?

Posted by: somebody | May 10 2014 7:38 utc | 100

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