Ukraine: Putin Offers A Truce
The President of the Russian Federation keeps pressing for a peaceful solution in Ukraine:
We think the most important thing now is to launch direct dialogue, genuine, full-fledged dialogue between the Kiev authorities and representatives of southeast Ukraine. This dialogue could give people from southeast Ukraine the chance to see that their lawful rights in Ukraine really will be guaranteed.In this context, we appeal too, to representatives of southeast Ukraine and supporters of federalisation to hold off the referendum scheduled for May 11, in order to give this dialogue the conditions it needs to have a chance.
The announcement was made in a press conference with OSCE President Didier Burghalter.
I understand this to be an offer for truce which will be followed as long as the coup government is willing to actively negotiate with the federalists. It will be canceled should the coup government be unwilling to talk and continue with its "anti terrorist" campaign.
The offer is likely part of a more complex deal negotiated through the OSCE. The coup government has made zero progress. The federalist movement is growing after the Odessa massacre in which at least 36 of them were killed by a right wing mob. The coup government has little to gain but much to lose, half of the country, should it reject a deal.
But what are the external interest behind the coup puppets? The U.S. may like to continue and even escalate the confrontation while core European country have interests to calm everything and everyone down. Who of those will win?
Posted by b on May 7, 2014 at 16:54 UTC | Permalink
next page »Amerika carries on with the program they now have going to keep the Russians on guard and to take down the economy of Europe. The Ukraine become the new Cyprus. The dead uncle milton freidman plan on taking away any programs helping the middle class of all nations. Serfs up.
Posted by: jo6pac | May 7 2014 17:13 utc | 2
It's possible the US is having second thoughts and will accept the offer. It strikes me as madness not to. The US does not have the where with all to impose it's will on that part of the world, and the military know it.
Posted by: Knut | May 7 2014 17:16 utc | 3
All War(fare)is deception. Keep your opponent guessing. In Judo, aikido, jujutsu keep your opponent off balance (exercise kuzushi). Do the unexpected. Do not do what your opponent expects. An olive branch offer is perfect. But NATO-Kiev says Russian forces have not moved. Actually, more assets are being moved into the theater.
Here is how this is playing out in other people's mind
Russia is moving assets to Crimea for Victory Day. These assets consist of air to air fighter jets, ground attack fighter jets, Strategic bombers, transport and attack helicopters, paratroopers and SAM batteries. As Putin will attend, there will be a no-fly zone declared for the celebration. This is a test run.
Those assets will stay there and will be ready for use after the Donbass referendum.
Once it is known that the referendum supports independence, the new republic can immediately request protection from RF.
Russia can impose a no fly zone on all of Eastern and Southern Ukraine without much warning or preparation. Note how FM Lavrov has dismissed calls for a Geneva 2 meeting.
The New republic can defend itself against the armor brought by Kiev with anti-tank weapons, rocket propelled grenades, Improvised Explosive Devices installed in culverts. Tanks and APCs have a soft underbelly.
With the Grads (multi-rocket launchers) it is another story. These have to be neutralized before they can fire their first shot. Grads brought against an urban conglomerate of civilians are nothing more than a terror weapon for causing indiscriminate mayhem. This is where satellite pics and intelligence from RF can help pinpoint the location of the multi-rocket launchers. Small teams of Cossacks and/or Chechen war veterans will then go hunt them down and disable these before hostilities break out. Notice how the Ukranian helicopters were grounded after a few were shot down?
The armor that Kiev brought to the fight has their eastern and southern flanks exposed leading to a virtual encirclement by RF. The Ukrainian army can see that too. For the most part they will refuse to fight and switch allegiance to side with the Donbass independent republic.
NATO and Kiev will screech but can do nothing more as there will be no Russian land invasion. This is The art of war 101. Why Invade if you can surround your foe and intimidate him to believe there is no use for war? All War and intimidation is deception.
NATO's Breedlove has recognized this scenario for Russia achieving her objectives without a land invasion. Washington is now threatening an all-out-war of sanctions if Russia recognizes the upcoming independence referendums in South Eastern Ukraine.
Russia accommodates this request, and gains political brownie points with the Europeans, on the urging by the OSCE. Russia asks the Donbass to postpone the referendum. This is doable but it is a request subject to acceptance by the Donbass security people. They could use some time to better organize the hastily declared referendum. Next time it could include all of the South including Odessa.
If Kiev reneges and continues pressing on, Russia has the justification to declare a no fly zone and take out the Grad launchers. NATO-Kiev would crumble and "old Europe" will not shed a tear.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 7 2014 17:23 utc | 4
I had been wondering how the antimaidan people would have been able to hold a vote on the referendum. The referendum could only be held in the few cities and towns, the bandera junta would prevent it in most of the regions. Probably only a minority of people there would have been able to vote on it. Postponing the vote could allow the necessary time for getting the process better organized and set up across the southeast so everybody could take part. Provided the junta pulled back and didn't interfere in the process. A very big if.
The main thrust of the junta's attacks in the southeast has been to provoke Russia into entering the Ukraine. The junta have not seriously attempted to take control of antimaidan occupied territory. They pick off checkpoints, briefly enter towns to drive antimaidan people from an occupied government building or two, then withdraw back outside the town or village. Doubtful the junta will back off, even if they agree to do so, they have not come through on any of the things they agreed to in the past. Negotiating with these goons is like negotiating with the mafia or Israelis. As long as the goal of the west is to destabilize the Ukraine and try and use the situation there as part of their campaign to isolate and eventually destabilize Russia, the western terrorism there will continue.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 17:30 utc | 5
This referendum on 11 what is that about? I havent been follow on that issue.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 17:39 utc | 6
Russian President Vladimir Putin has dismissed as groundless the claims that Moscow holds the key to resolving the Ukrainian crisis. "As for the key to resolving the problem being in Russia - it is a ploy of our Western partners which has no grounds to it," he said at a press conference following his meeting with OSCE Chairman-in-Office Didier Burkhalter. Putin said that Russia cannot be regarded as a party of the current conflict in Ukraine."As soon as our colleagues in Europe or the US drive one situation or another into a blind alley, they always say that now the key to resolving the problem lies in the hands of Moscow and it bears the entire responsibility," the Russian leader added.
"As regards what will suit Russia and what won't suit Russia. We are not a party of this conflict. The parties are inside Ukraine," Putin said, Interfax reports.
However, Putin reaffirmed that Russia was still ready to contribute to the Ukrainian settlement. "Russia is ready to make a strong contribution to the Ukrainian crisis settlement and influence the Geneva process in the most positive manner," he said.
There are no Russian troops left on the Ukrainian border, said Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"They kept telling us they were concerned about our troops on the Ukrainian border - we pulled them [the troops] back; they no longer stay on the Ukrainian border but are in their bases and at training ranges," Putin said.
"This can be easily verified with modern means of reconnaissance. Everything can be seen," Putin underscored.
Russian President Vladimir Putin opposes double standards in the attitude to the sides in the Ukrainian conflict and says he understands people in southeastern Ukraine who try to defend their rights the way the rights have been defended on Maidan.
"I understand people in southeastern Ukraine who wonder why people in Kiev were allowed to do what they did - to stage a coup, to arm themselves and to seize administrative bodies, the police and military units - why [Kiev] was permitted to do anything while they were still unable to guarantee their interests and lawful rights," Putin said on Wednesday after negotiations with Swiss President Didier Burkhalter.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 17:40 utc | 7
Russia is actually counting on the banderites not taking the bait of her olive branch offer. Russia knows the banderites fear they could loose momentum. The hyenas and the sharks smell blood and move in for the kill. The banderites think they have the RF and the Donbass on the run. They are in for a big surprise. This is all pure deception as all warfare is. Big mistake! A lot of heavy duty hardware is being moved to the Crimea as we speak. Cossacks and veterans of the Chechen war are moving in.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 7 2014 17:45 utc | 8
b
The problem with these and other recent comments by Putin or Lavrov is that the US could misread these as weakness or lack of resolve and not as an attempt to de-escalate.
Currently, the US has no reason to stop pushing the coup government to carry out the military operation. If Russia intervenes, the US will be able to justify acceleration of its Isolation policy against Russia. If Russia does not intervene, the US will continue the previous policy of creeping NATO expansion and isolation of Russia and take Ukraine for very little direct cost.
The Russians have no good answers to this. Russia should move forward with providing the rebels with weapons - they are accused of providing anyway. Then when the rebels are able to hold their own, push for negotiations.
Right now it seems that the junta is being told by their CIA mentors that they can win, and the MSM will continue to minimize all missteps by the junta and exaggerate all accusation against Russia.
The EU is hopelessly confused and crippled, and the US will use their allies within that organization to undermine any effort at having a coherent policy which differs in anything more than style with the US position, here I am referring to the Poles and the Baltic states, as well as the UK. The Germans are not willing to pay any political or economic cost, but will always choose political expediency to economic gain - as they have always done when it comes to the Americans.
Putin read the situation perfectly, but he did not see it coming and he continued to believe the Americans were playing clean, even though he should have known better.
The Chinese think they are being smart by not speaking more loudly, but they need to understand that the Americans are still stuck in a cold war mindset and they see Russians as the defeated soviet rump state, that should not think it is anything more than resource rich patch of dirt which should accept its new role as a "gas station" for the west. They have repeatedly and consistently violated all cold war agreements with the USSR because they believe Russia is weak, both politically and economically. The Chinese need to be more robust in their support for Russia in order not to be left to fend for itself should American designs on Russia succeed. Color revolutions for Russia and China are the American dream.
Don't forget, America is the shining city on the hill, ultimately they see themselves as the saviors of mankind and believe they have the solution to all problems if people would just know their place...
Posted by: OAB | May 7 2014 17:48 utc | 9
Putin has endorsed the presidential election, and condemned any referendums.
You may argue that it is conditional, but like his conditional acceptance of the deescalation agreement, there is not the slightest reason to expect it would be interpreted as anything but a flinch. This endorsement is an even bigger flinch. Putin has telegraphed yet again that he is not going to fight the neofascists, that all he wants is Crimea. My best judgment is that a purely military asset like Sevastopol is of vastly less importance than the consequences of a neofascist regime on Russia's borders. But then, I'm not one who's trumpeted Putin's ability or bravery.
If I was to guess, Putin is deluded to think that the money will make the EU come to an arrangement and that the US will exclude the neofascists from Kyiv, leaving a bunch of oligarchs. Putin is used to oligarchs, he's got very little problem with them.
Posted by: stevenjohnson | May 7 2014 17:59 utc | 10
Russia is moving assets to Crimea for Victory Day. These assets consist of air to air fighter jets, ground attack fighter jets, Strategic bombers, transport and attack helicopters, paratroopers and SAM batteries.Source, please.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 7 2014 18:16 utc | 11
"...the Americans are still stuck in a cold war mindset and they see Russians as the defeated soviet rump state, that should not think it is anything more than resource rich patch of dirt which should accept its new role as a "gas station" for the west. ..."
There is much truth in this, but Lavrov and Putin are totally aware of it. They are not surprised by US stupidity and crudeness. Their appeal is to world opinion.
The underlying reality is that the US did not "win" the Cold War, the Soviet Union, for reasons previously mentioned, imploded. (The US is in the position of a hunter returning from the woods with carrion and claiming to have killed a bear that died of old age and hardship.)
If people like McCain wish to delude themselves into believing that they and their generation triumphed in a war, it is hard to stop them. On the other hand if they believe that, having "won" once they can do it again at leisure they are likely to be disillusioned quickly.
The longer this goes on and the more restrained and sensible Putin and Lavrov appear to be, the sooner the Germans and the rest of Europe will reach the tipping point at which NATO begins to crumble. Those who believe otherwise, and that Germany is unable to pursue its national interests when it chooses, are wrong. The economic attractions of taking up a position at the end of a new railway route which brings freight from Pyongyang to Hamburg in 14 days-coming soon- are very real. In the year in which China re-assumes its position as the world's largest economy, German industry salivates at the prospects.
The notion that Germany is under military occupation is risible, it is full of foreign troops no doubt and bases, but their presence depends upon the agreement of the ruling class, who have, on the whole, very much enjoyed having them there. Not only are they paying guests but they are hostages too when Dr Strangelove gets ideas.
Finally, regarding the referendum. Holding one on May 11 is undoubtedly impracticable. But equally incredible is the idea that Presidential elections on May 25 can be held. And yet the MSM looks forward to them-and the election of another oligarch- confident that it is intended only as a coronation to give the Nazi/US government the credibility it needs to sign off on IMF loans, invite NATO in for provocations and pave the way for that same sex union between Nuland and Tymoshenko that Cathy Ashton knew was coming.
Posted by: bevin | May 7 2014 18:17 utc | 12
It is actually a very schrude move: he isn't talking to the Americans or the UN where the US has a veto anymore, he's talking to the OSCE, where it doesn't. And since he openly ignored Merkel in her latest escapade against a parade in Crimea I seriously suspect he's trying to drive a wedge between EU elites.
Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 7 2014 18:18 utc | 13
"... a new railway route which brings freight from Pyongyang to Hamburg in 14 days..."
And, of course freight from points in between, which is to say the eurasian landmass, at similar speed.
Posted by: bevin | May 7 2014 18:21 utc | 14
Putin is used to oligarchs, he's got very little problem with them.
That's true. He's so used to them he's one of them now. The entire country's his asset to do with what he pleases. He allows his Oligarch friends to rape it and export their capital gains for warmer climes. Like South Florida.
I've been feeling nostalgic the last couple of days so I decided to visit the past. I've had.....
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 7 2014 18:22 utc | 15
In other news the People's Governor of Donetsk and the nominal leader of the People's Republic of Donetsk, Paul Gubarev has been released in exchange for the three SBU Alpha team member captured in Gorlovka two weeks ago. Also two other members of the People's Militia have been freed.
This will somewhat complicate issues. So far Denis Pushilin, the chairman of the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) council has been very successful in leading the resistance and especially good in managing public relations. Gubarev has been in captivity for two months. Pushilin and Gubarev now need to coordinate their leadership.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 7 2014 18:28 utc | 16
Here is America we don't seem to be getting much information about the warfare on the eastern front, but it seems that the Ukrainian army is having an awfully tough time retaking the east. While I think that is partly because of the resistance of the local population, that still would not slow down an army.
So I suspect that there is a lot of resistance within the army. I would like to see more news about this.
Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 7 2014 18:29 utc | 17
Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 7, 2014 2:18:38 PM | 13
You are right. The US is not accepting it, Kyiv does not want to stop "fighting terrorists" so Putin can promise what he wants to without consequence.
The US does not want this solved, but wants as many costs to Russia as possible.
US and Canada are OSCE members. The organization works with consensus, it concentrates on security.
It will end with some sort of peace keeping.
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 18:33 utc | 18
Putin of putting forth a very sensible plan here. The big unknown is the US -- will they agree or reject it. The latter is more likely and the rejection will take the form of adding some unacceptable conditions.
If that happens, hopefully it will work to drive a wedge between the EU and the US. If the US does agree to this it will be very interesting to see how Kiev reacts. Of course, they can't really defy the US here. But they will have one massive headache with the Right Sector who it seems provides the most effective fighters supporting the current government. US policy members must also realize that we have unleashed a barely controllable force with those Right Sector militias.
All in all I think the US will have to reject this offer. To accept it would be the same as admitting all of our policies in the Ukraine over the last six months were a mistake. How many failures can the US experience in such a short time.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 7 2014 18:41 utc | 19
@CNH #15
All your Georgian friends are also active in Kiev … roses, orange, uprising. Even the well informed and funded NGOs are doing great on US aid. :-)
For Toria Nuland, her failure under Bush/Cheney in 2004 and her 2nd chance under Obama/Rice may be personal. Her grandparents were from Byelorussia, moved to New York where her father forced a name change Nuland (née Nudelman), see his book Lost In America – A Journey With My Father
Link to Odessa city: the truth that is to be hidden
The author pulls a lot of the details together into one narrative of the Odessa street fighting and later massacre at the Trade Union building. It's in English.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 18:58 utc | 21
Re Dennis Pushilin: His Wikipedia entry has this to say (though I have no idea as to its veracity):
Denis Pushilin (Russian: Денис Пушилин, born on May 9, 1982) is a leader of the Donetsk separatists and self-proclaimed chairman of the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) council.
Pushilin worked for the 1990s Russian Ponzi scheme company MMM, which has cost its customers millions of dollars.[1][2] Pushilin has an account on YouTube where he is seen agitating for MMM as recently as March 5, 2014.[2] Until he suddenly appeared as a leader of the separatists, Pushilin was virtually unknown in the region, giving rise to speculation that like most of the separatist leaders he was an agent of Putin's government.[3]
Posted by: William Bowles | May 7 2014 18:59 utc | 22
Whoops! Shoulda given the url for thems that wants it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Pushilin
Posted by: William Bowles | May 7 2014 19:00 utc | 23
"...There are no Russian troops left on the Ukrainian border, said Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"They kept telling us they were concerned about our troops on the Ukrainian border - we pulled them [the troops] back; they no longer stay on the Ukrainian border but are in their bases and at training ranges," Putin said.
US is denying that Russia pulled their troops back, just heard the denial on radio news. It shouldn't take long for some satellite images to settle it.
Posted by: okie farmer | May 7 2014 19:02 utc | 24
@Oui #1p
All your Georgian friends....
I have no Georgian friends.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 7 2014 19:06 utc | 25
The rulers of the United States are some of the most aggressive, murderous people the world has ever seen. Just ask the people of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, North Korea, Indonesia, Japan, Chile, Uruguay, Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Greece, El Salvador, Guatemala, Iran, Egypt, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Angola, Cuba, etc. etc.
The move to take over the security services in Kiev, begun actually some years ago, is now complete. The right-wing death squads are being trained. Even a NATO allied rump Banderastan is a victory for them. They do want to overthrow Putin, and take over the prostrated Russia they thought was theirs after the collapse of the Soviet Union (a "collapse", by the way, that was facilitated by a decades-long, multi-billion dollar military and covert campaign that was relentless... not that Stalinist criminality and stupidity didn't lay the basis for such a collapse).
The U.S. will never stop until it believes it is truly ruling the world. When the Germans and others wake up enough to protest, it will be too late for them. But since the U.S. rulers are recklessly aggressive -- such is how I read pushing the Ukraine issue right now -- there may soon be no more world for them to take over, the Germans to relish, the Russians to connive over for their own nationalist reasons, the Chinese and Japanese to bicker over spume-washed rocks.
Anyone who believes that NATO/Russian war is not possible, or that it wouldn't lead to full-scale nuclear war, is living in totally understandable but dangerous state of denial. The future is extremely bleak. The WWI left understood the issue as a future of either socialism or barbarism. If I were a betting man, I'd place my money on the latter right now, while hoping against hope I am wrong.
Americans in particular are due for a very rude awakening. If 9/11 "changed everything", the long-awaited WWIII will really rock your world.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 7, 2014 2:59:17 PM | 21
"(though I have no idea as to its veracity)"
Jesus, why waste the time? It's wikipropagandia or wikislanderia, take your pick. While you're at it, why not post what Fox says about the man?
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 19:19 utc | 28
Europe's 9/11 (from WSWS)
7 May 2014
In an interview Sunday in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung, NATO General Secretary Anders Fogh Rasmussen compared the annexation of Crimea by Russia with 9/11 and the “war on terror.” This comparison says more than Rasmussen and the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung perhaps intended.
For over twelve years, the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 have served the US government as a pretext for illegal wars and a massive buildup of its military forces. In the name of the “war on terror,” the US has attacked Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya; abducted, tortured and murdered suspected terrorists; spied on billions of people around the world; and built up the structure of a police state in America.
With the crisis in Ukraine, which they provoked, the ruling circles of Europe and, in particular, Germany, are embarking on a similar path. They are pursuing definite economic and geopolitical interests: pushing back Russia and expanding their influence in the Black Sea region, the Caucasus and Central Asia. They are also using the crisis to attempt to overcome deep-rooted popular opposition to militarism and build up the state apparatus in preparation for future class struggles.
Speaking to the newspaper, Rasmussen called for a massive rearmament by Europe’s NATO members. “Stop running down your defense spending, turn the trend around and step by step invest more money in defense,” he demanded.
“What has happened in Ukraine must be a wake-up call for Europe,” he said. Russia had increased its defense spending by 30 percent, while some European NATO members had cut their spending by 40 percent.
The general secretary of the world’s biggest military alliance threatened Russia with “serious consequences” should it further destabilize Ukraine or provoke a conflict with a NATO member. The Russians, he said, cannot “have the slightest doubt that we consider an attack on one member as an attack on all of us.” He claimed that NATO’s deployment of troops, combat aircraft and naval units to Eastern Europe was a policy only of “deterrence.”
Leading German politicians immediately supported Rasmussen. The security policy spokesman for the Social Democratic (SPD) parliamentary group, Rainer Arnold, criticized NATO member states on the grounds that they had in recent years “lowered their military capabilities in uncoordinated fashion, driven only by financial constraints.” This must end, Arnold demanded, insisting that NATO “ensure effective conventional deterrence.”
Arnold suggested establishing multinational units and deploying them in Eastern Europe. The German army could “contribute its expensive special skills” and participate with its Tiger helicopter, the new Puma infantry fighting vehicle and the Boxer armored personnel carrier. The foreign policy expert of the Christian Democratic Union, Andreas Schockenhoff, agreed and added that in addition to providing armored units, the German army could help in preventing cyber-attacks and organizing naval deployments.
Washington and Berlin deliberately provoked the crisis in Ukraine, mobilizing ultra-right, fascist forces. The February 22 coup that brought to power the government of President Turchynov and Prime Minister Yatsenyuk was directed by Washington and Berlin, with the fascists of Right Sector and Svoboda playing leading roles.
The Western imperialist powers expected the unelected regime in Kiev to encounter popular opposition and provoke a Russian reaction. In a country where 6 million were killed during the Nazi occupation—including 1.5 million Jews—a government glorifying Nazi collaborators such as Stepan Bandera would inevitably provoke deep disgust.
The recent massacre in Odessa makes clear the barbaric character of the forces being mobilized by imperialism. Right Sector goons and other supporters of the Kiev regime torched the Odessa Trade Unions House on May 2, where hundreds of opponents of the regime had sought refuge. Dozens died in the blaze, and many were seriously injured as they tried to escape the flames by jumping out of windows. On the ground, the fascists cheered and hooted with glee. According to some reports, many of the victims were murdered by right-wing militias before the fascist mob set the building on fire.
The spineless and unscrupulous German media has taken up the job of covering up these facts, while depicting Russian President Putin as responsible for the escalation of the crisis.
The more evidence emerges demonstrating that the Kiev regime is rejected by large sections of the Ukrainian population, the more bizarre the media’s attempts to turn reality on its head.
On Monday, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung warned its readers “not to lose sight of the fact that Moscow is carrying out its undeclared war against Ukraine by stoking up and manipulating real conflicts in Ukrainian society on social issues as well as over linguistic, cultural and historical questions.” The conflicts are real, indeed, but they are being inflamed above all by the aggressive intervention of the Western powers, not Russian manipulation.
Rasmussen’s comparison of the crisis in Ukraine with 9/11 is a warning to workers across Europe. It shows that the provocative actions of the Western powers are directed not only against the Ukrainian working class and Russia, but against the entire European working class. They are to provide the pretext for a massive military buildup, for war, and for the establishment of a police state.
Rasmussen is an expert in this respect. He is the author of a book tellingly entitled From Social State to Minimal State. During his period as prime minister of Denmark, a country once famous for its tolerance, he transformed the country into a fortress against foreigners. Under his leadership, Denmark was one of the few European countries to send troops to Iraq in 2003.
We appeal to all those seeking to oppose war and militarism to support the European election campaign of the Socialist Equality parties in Germany and Britain and build sections of the International Committee of the Fourth International in Europe. It is the only political tendency to consistently oppose war and militarism.
Peter Schwarz
Posted by: okie farmer | May 7 2014 19:24 utc | 29
Wish Putin would stop calling his opposites "colleague" and "partner". "Couterparts" would suit. Someone in his position must interrogate every word he is oblighed to utter.
Posted by: ruralito | May 7 2014 19:24 utc | 30
okie farmer
Ok that shows nato havent learned one bit yet, these people are crazy, so much hate.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 19:26 utc | 31
Posted by: ruralito | May 7, 2014 3:24:20 PM | 28
"Wish Putin would stop calling his opposites "colleague" and "partner". "Couterparts" would suit."
I could think of some much more colorful that would fit those war criminals far better than that. ;)
--------------
Link to NATO continues eastward aggression: Analyst
“If Kiev cannot aggravate the situation into a more dangerous one, we always have NATO to call on,” he wrote.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 19:28 utc | 32
stevenjohnson | May 7, 2014 1:59:50 PM | 10
cite: If I was to guess, Putin is deluded to think that the money will make the EU come to an arrangement and that the US will exclude the neofascists from Kyiv, leaving a bunch of oligarchs.
The neofascists either will become oligarchs or locals with at best local power in Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Rivne, Ternopil, where they come from. Remember, there wasn't revolution, it's the same procedure as every year of regime change in Ukraine since 1994.
Reading on RT it seems that Russia have almost capitulated, even the kiev facists like Putin's statements today..
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 19:34 utc | 34
@scalawag, of course. But Putin and his supporters don't have the luxury of blabbing what ever enters their heads. Neither should they suck up by pretending they're in some sort of collegial relationship with the ghouls and killjoys of the West.
Posted by: ruralito | May 7 2014 19:35 utc | 35
Link to Ukraine to completely halt fresh water supply to Crimea
Ukraine intends to cut off the supply of fresh water to Crimea by erecting a dike made of sandbags across the North Crimean channel, Itar-Tass reports.According to eyewitnesses, cranes and other construction machinery were spotted 40 km from the border between Crimea and Ukraine, near the Armyansk-Herson interstate.
Following the reunification of Crimea with Russia, Ukraine decreased the flow of fresh water down the North Crimean channel to a third of the regular amount since April 14, and on April 24 closed off the channel’s sluicegates completely.
That is the kind of thing Israelis do to Palestinians. Coincidence?
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 19:52 utc | 36
The evidence connecting Parubij to one of the shooting thugs of Odessa massacre
http://antifashist.com/latest-news/24631-hunta-ispolzovala-v-odesse-karatelej-kotoryh-razyskivalo-mvd-pri-janukoviche.html
leaves me wondering, if Parubij has been framed as a scapegoat. He is an amateur, but amateurs tend to be even more careful where and whith whom they are seen and filmed, than professionals.
Has anybody asked himself, why the FSB, having good relations with former SBU-Chief Yakumenko (Yaku left for Russia after the Putsch) let Parubij and Nalivaichenko go on preparing the massacre of Institutskaya until it allegedly was too late to stop them? Could be a conspiracy gone wrong.
"It is actually a very schrude move: he isn't talking to the Americans or the UN where the US has a veto anymore, he's talking to the OSCE, where it doesn't. And since he openly ignored Merkel in her latest escapade against a parade in Crimea I seriously suspect he's trying to drive a wedge between EU elites."
Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 7, 2014 2:18:38 PM | 13
I completely agree.
Posted by: Tea | May 7 2014 20:32 utc | 38
Posted by: TomGard | May 7, 2014 4:00:07 PM | 35
"leaves me wondering, if Parubij has been framed as a scapegoat"
Doubtful. Parubij has also been connected to the snipers at maidan. I think this guy is the scapegoat:
Link to Аваков: Экс-глава одесской милиции объявлен в розыск после побега из Украины
Partial translation using Yandex.
Avakov: Former head of the Odessa police wanted after escaping from Ukraine"Fuchedzhi at 5.00 PM (local time - approx. OPINION) crossed the border of Ukraine and hiding from the investigation. He wanted," said Avakov, reports RIA "Novosti" with reference to UNIAN.
Avakov added that in Odessa Prosecutor's office arrested three of the police. Now they are being taken in Kiev.
In turn, the assistant Minister of internal Affairs of Ukraine Anton Gerashchenko admitted that Fuchedzhi escaped to the territory of Transnistria.
Earlier it was reported that Colonel Dmitry Fuchedzhi was detained.
He was suspended from his duties because of the massacre on 2 may.
Him accuse of inactivity at the time, when on the streets there were real battles between supporters of federalization and euromayday, then the right radicals set fire to the building of the House of unions with their opponents and beat those who were lucky to leave. The result has killed more than 40 people.
At Fuchedzhi also put the blame for the liberation of the supporters of federalization, who were detained in the House of trade unions (may 4, when people are released, he was the acting head of the regional police Department).
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 20:32 utc | 39
Rising antisemitism in Ukraine
http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/jews-preparing-to-evacuate-ukraine/
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 20:36 utc | 40
Posted by: TomGard | May 7, 2014 4:00:07 PM | 35
Parubij is no amateur. He is in the Orange Revolution business since 2004 and
in the years leading up to the Ukrainian independence in 1991 Parubiy was an independence activist and was arrested for holding an illegal rally in 1988.[2] In 1991 he founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok; the party combined radical nationalism and some neo-Nazi features (by its name and the "Wolfsangel"-like sign)
He was responsible for sending people on the Maidan to the positions where they got killed (and led the offensive on the police) he is reported to have been in Odessa the night of the trade union building killings. Odessa politicians accuse Tymoshenko's election team. Parubij belongs to her party.
Some Ukrainian oligarchs seem to fight against the US
But to Mr. Firtash and his legal team, his arrest is yet another example of American overreach. He vociferously proclaimed his innocence in the office interview, and his lawyers also described the case against him as flimsy, largely built on a failed effort by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to pressure a former employee of a company involved in the titanium mining deal into false testimony. The lawyers also say American officials tried to block the transfer of funds sent by Vasily Anisimov, a Russian oligarch, to pay Mr. Firtash’s bail.
No, no, Mr. Firtas is not a down and out Yanukovich ally, no
Shortly after his release from jail, Mr. Firtash helped set up talks at a luxury hotel here between two leading pro-Western Ukrainian presidential candidates: a fellow business titan, Petro Poroshenko, and a former champion boxer, Vitali Klitschko. The two men quickly reached a deal to unite behind Mr. Poroshenko, who is generally well-regarded in the West and now holds a commanding lead.
By the way, Poroshenko used to work with Yanukovich, too.
Do the US know what they are doing?
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 20:38 utc | 41
Yes, NATO likening the Crimea annexation to 9/11 was a nice touch. Yup, I guess we shouldn't pay any attention to that OLD FUCKING 9/11 SHIT since like no one is still using it to justify even more war crimes today, right? Retarded.
The WSWS also has a nice piece on how the US is covering for the slaughter in Odessa. Although the nonchalance with which these murderous war criminals continue to lie and promulgate their own psychotic reality to our fucking faces is nothing new to anyone here it is - I feel - good to remind yourself now and then as to just how little these fucking war criminals care about you, your ability to see through their lies and the fact that they are ONCE AGAIN proven to be mass-murdering war criminals.
Marie Harf is a murderous war criminal cunt who at the very least should be rotting in a prison cell for the rest of her natural life.
But I'm sure the benefits are great.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 7 2014 20:43 utc | 42
The article has this liberal stench about it, but some ideas are definitely worth considering.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/05/05/how_putin_is_reinventing_warfare
Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 7 2014 20:44 utc | 43
EP declare the right sector a terrorist outfit? Will the west allow such treason to their cause?
Link to Евродепутат потребовала от ЕК объявить «Правый сектор» террористами
Partial Yandex translation.
The MEP has demanded from the EC to announce the "Right branch" terroristsThe Deputy of EuroParliament from Latvia Tatyana Zhdanok has suggested colleagues on the EP to maintain its request to the Commission to declare the "Right branch" terrorists and to oblige Kiev to defeat this organization.
In case of acceptance of such decision account of this organization and its leaders will be frozen, radicals "Right sector" will be banned in EU countries, and governments of different countries will cooperate in order to political isolation and physical arrest of militants, transmits ITAR-TASS.
According to Zhdanok, "the customary prohibition of activity is not enough - the necessary routing of this extremist organization with its disarmament of insurgents, arrest activists and judgment of them."
"Temporary Ukrainian authorities do not dare to take this step, for various reasons, including because of the sympathy of the ruling politicians to "the Right sector," stressed the MP.
The Deputy of the Odessa regional Council Vadim Savenko said that the victims were 116 people, but "the Ukrainian authorities, the command was given to conceal the dimensions of the tragedy"that the information about it has not reached the world community.
At the same time, the media reported that after clashes in Odessa 48 people were missing, and in morgues still lie unidentified body.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 20:55 utc | 44
Anonymous:
I don't think you do that article justice unless you include the quote from Ukraine's chief rabbi Yaacov Dov Bleich who had this to say:
“All of the violence, and when I say all, I mean every single case of violence of Ukrainian against Ukrainian has been instigated and implemented by the pro-Russians – initiated, implemented, instigated.”
Wait a second...but where are all of those Ukrainian Jews supposed to go, Yaacov?
Most of the Jews living in Ukraine are now filling out paperwork to prepare for emigration to Israel if necessary, Ukraine’s chief rabbi, Yaacov Dov Bleich, said Sunday in a radio interview.While he stopped short of calling for mass evacuation, Bleich said he is encouraged by those Ukrainian Jews who are making Aliyah, or emigrating to the Jewish state, to “take care of themselves.”
So, Rabbi, us observers out here should just think NOTHING of the fact that you are directly fucking supporting the neo-Nazi/anti-Semitic Ukrainian coup government that is helping boost the apartheid genocidal state of Israel's ever important aliyah numbers, you lying fucking POS, huh?
Wait, JSorrentine, could I have that article about Zionist collaboration with the Third Reich and Mussolini once again? Y'know, that collaboration between the Zionist predecessors of the current Likud party et al and European fascists/anti-semites of yesteryear and which had as its major aim the increased emigration of Jews to Palestine?
Sure, no problem.
Yeah, I bet those Israeli investigators have the whole Odessa thing all CSI-ed out by now, right, morons? Holy shit.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 7 2014 21:06 utc | 45
This from der Spiegel:
Poroshenko welcomes Putin's StatementPyotr Poroshenko, the most promising candidate for the presidential election in Ukraine, welcomed Putin's remarks. During his visit to Berlin, he said: "Things improved a lot after the statement of President Putin in Moscow. I think this is great news for the stabilization of the situation in Eastern Ukraine."
German Chancellor Angela Merkel had received Poroshenko. After the conversation in Berlin, she spoke, with regard to the planned presidential election on May 25, in favor of "a willingness to talk and have dialogue." "The OSCE should play a strong role," said government spokesman Steffen Seibert. Merkel is known to have called for a "dialogue at roundtables" Ukraine is in conflict, in which all parties which act peacefully can participate.
Putin said in Moscow, he supported the proposal Merkel at a "round table" of all parties to the conflict , including the pro-Russian separatists. The Kiev government rejects talks with the "terrorists" so far.
Two interesting things. (1) Front-runner Poroshenko's language is markedly less bellicose towards Russia than is the putsch regime's. (2) If Merkel is indeed saying that the federalist resistance should be included in talks, then her position is closer to that of GRF that it is to that of the USG and its puppet putsch regime.
I also think that Merkel's receiving Poroshenko (meet the new boss, same as the old boss) indicates that Germany intends to play a leading role in Ukraine.
JSorrentine
I missed that, I picked up the news from another site.
Thats stupid comment by the rabbi indeed, stupid of me not seeing this.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 21:21 utc | 47
Many anti-junta people in the Southeast are hesitant to postpone their referendum.
Link to «Проведем 11 числа, как и задумано»
Partial Yandex translation.
"We will hold the 11th day, as planned"Not all the rebels of the South-East of Ukraine supported the call of Vladimir Putin to postpone the referendum
"Most against transfer"
Co-Chairman of the government of the self-proclaimed Donetsk national Republic Denis Pushilin reported that this proposal will be submitted to the people's Council DND on Thursday.
Self-defense of Donbass unilaterally will not lay down their arms, given the aggressive actions of the Ukrainian authorities, said the other co-Chairman of the government of the Donetsk national Republic Miroslav Rudenko. "It is still difficult to speak about the addition of the weapons and any negotiations, too many people died," said he. As a member of the government of the Donetsk national Republic Alexander Vaskovsky immediately said that the move scheduled for may 11, the referendum is not necessary.
Member of the coordinating Council of national liberation movement of Donbass semen Kuzmenko also admitted that they do not understand why to postpone the referendum.
"We need more likely legitimized and as soon as possible to create a new state. The postponement of the referendum, we will deliver in a dead end all located in the region of law enforcers. They couldn't help us until we vote. According to the laws of Ukraine they can't stand on our side, because in this case will go against the law, the observance of which have a duty to protect. Most members of management do not agree with the proposal to postpone the referendum," said one of the leaders of the people's militia in an interview to the newspaper the SIGHT.
"May be, and Vladimir Putin have worries about whether we will be able to organize the defence of voters and polling stations. We realize that, but most still against the transfer," said Kuzmenko.
"11 the number for the Donetsk and Lugansk regions is a symbol of freedom and fight for our values. Today will be a very long discussion about migration," said Kuzmenko. According to him, the power unit is also fully formed, created mobile groups. "We'll see. If we see, roughly speaking, up to 9 number that will be able to hold a referendum, will hold its 11th day, as it was planned," said one of the leaders of the resistance.
"Putin is a good man, a true peacemaker. But Kyiv authorities to conduct a dialogue with us is not collected. Against us, they mobilized all forces. The farther we will delay the referendum, the more they will have opportunities to break us. 't[? article typo - maybe "we shouldn't"?] dialogue with them," admitted Kuzmenko.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 21:23 utc | 48
Posted by: Demian | May 7, 2014 5:16:31 PM | 43
Interesting - Poroshenko - in the German version of DER SPIEGEL sounds very different.
Maybe this was before Putin's speech. It was before he talked to Merkel.
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 21:26 utc | 49
IF Switzerland is admired for its system of government, then why haven't any other countries adapted such a system?
Translate all of Swiss law into Ukrainian, and you are all set.
Posted by: John | May 7 2014 21:29 utc | 50
JSorrentine
Actually there is some better stories on antisemitism, google, set to this week. And those sources dont blame eastern ukraien for violence.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 7 2014 21:36 utc | 51
More witness evidence that people were murdered inside the Trade Union building by means other than the "official" version of smoke inhalation.
Link to Odessa tragedy survivor: ‘Many people strangled after escaping the fire’
According to the witness, pro-autonomy activists wanted to hide from the radicals by barricading themselves in the building.“On our way up the stairs, we were taking plywood sheets inside so that we could block the doors and prevent them from getting into the building,” she says.
However, the crowd of pro-government supporters who were trying to enter the building was quickly becoming bigger.
“They were coming from everywhere,” she added.
According to Tatyana, the radicals started hurling Molotov cocktails, after which the first and the third floors of the House of Trade Unions burst into flames.
Tatyana also recalled that the outraged crowd outside was shouting that they wouldn't let anybody out.
“They were also throwing firecrackers, so people in the halls were sitting on the floor, blinded.” She added, “At that moment you realize there is no way to help these people so you'd better rescue yourself.”
Public services such as police and fire brigade were not rushing to rescue the injured people.
“The police were idle not doing anything,” she recalls. “When firefighters arrived it was too late – too many people had already died, even though the closest fire station is 700 meters away from the site.”
According to the numerous videos released in the Internet, many victims of the Odessa massacre received bullet wounds. On some of the videos a man in a bulletproof vest who introduces himself as sotnik Mykola (“sotnik” is what Maidan group leaders in Kiev call themselves) is shooting several times in the direction of the burning House of Trade Unions.
“Have a look at the video,” says Tatyana, pointing to the footage where Micola is pictured. “This armed man in a vest is carrying a gun.”
According to her, the shooting started in Grecheskaya Street, in the north of the city.
Tatyana said that after the pro-government activists managed to enter the burning building, “many people were strangled. I didn’t know how they [pro-government activists] were able to get through the fire but they did,” she added.
She recalled that the radicals “finished off some of the people who managed to escape, and threw from the windows those who didn’t, to kill them on the ground.”
“17-year-old hooligans were finishing people with bats,” she added.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 21:39 utc | 52
Posted by: John | May 7, 2014 5:29:12 PM | 47
:-)) It does not work like that. There have to be people in power who actually want to follow laws.
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 21:48 utc | 53
Putin's strategy and tactics are impeccable. Having said almost nothing, he has further exposed the US and the EU. Most importantly he is giving the anti-fascist resistance the space to create their own energy and stand on their own.
Posted by: anonymous | May 7 2014 21:49 utc | 54
The "Kyiv government" does not like the way the conflict is framed
oh no, no, no we have no civil war, just terrorists ...
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 21:53 utc | 55
Posted by: Demian | May 7, 2014 5:56:39 PM | 53
I swear I saw it and I read it ... :-))
Let's hope someone put pressure on them.
The Odessa massacre narratives are beginning to worry me.
I can follow the red band policemen provocateur conspiracy, I also agree that the trade union building fire was preplanned including the murders (Poroshenko even mentioned a special gas being used), however, the red band provocateurs had cover by some 200 to 500 fools who planned to clash with a football crowd. Who in their right political mind would organize something like that?
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 22:13 utc | 57
scalawag 36, somebody 38
Sorry, I should have been more precise.
As Noirette said in the other thread, the Odessa massacre was really sophisticated work of a death squad. Sophisticated, because the fabrication of the partly burnt victims, some of them executed, was meant to be obvious, notwithstanding, that this "meant to be obvious" is as obvious, as the fabrication itself. But that doesn't matter, because it belongs to "second level" consideration that never manages to get through to a broader public. So everybody is happy having "discovered" and understood, there was this fabrication, without noticing this is evidence of a terrorist "third party", that is, the mission-concept and supervision by a work of sophisticated secret service personell. Compared to those ppl Parubij, with all his merits, is a petty criminal. Any mid-level drug pusher would have the cleverness to achieve, what Parubij has done on maidan and before.
And now there comes up unrefutable video-material linking him with one of the petty thugs, that Mykola, seemingly a kind of gangleader, but on the place just spraying bullets around, that must have fallen short of the building, possibly injuring his buddies, and hopping around like Rumpelstiltskin, who is surely enough not part of the death squad - operation. But, as of the irrelevance of second level thinking, nobody will notice the inconsistency and link him and Parubij to the whole of the massacre.
So the CIA - if the CIA was the third party designing the operation - is out of sight. But was it CIA? Here comes in Yakumenko, telling, he knew for long - and then should have been able to substantiate - that Nalivaichenko and Parubij worked out of the US-embassy and set up the "Maidan self defense" at a time, when Berkut was denied live ammunition.
hm?
And, somebody, I didn't understand your hint at Firtash and Poroshenko, could you elaborate, plz?
Another article on the missing Odessa police deputy chief.
Link to Бывший замначальника одесской милиции сбежал за границу
Former Deputy chief of the Odessa police fled abroadActing head of the MIA of Ukraine Arsen Avakov stated that ex-Deputy chief of the Odessa police Dmitry Fuchedzhi wanted, says on its website.
According to him, early in the morning he "crossed the border and went into hiding from investigation". What country went law enforcement Avakov has not specified. He also said that in the framework of the pre-trial investigation arrested by three police officers.
It is reported that contributed to escape Fuchedzhi abroad assistant acting head of the interior Ministry Anton Gerashchenko. According to journalists, former Deputy chief of the Odessa police disappeared in Transnistria.
At the same time employees of security service of Ukraine detained one of the alleged organizers of the riots on may 2. It was the 26-year-old local resident, who is the "leader of one of the radical groups".
According to the Agency, the young man had hidden in a rented apartment. He also used the means of conspiracy: changed the appearance, had no means of communication, did not go to the street".
Under the pretext of the tense situation, the new Ukrainian government sent to Odessa police battalion "Kyiv-1", formed of volunteers. It is alleged that the unit has already begun to ensure public order. In addition, the battalion will be performing the tasks in the framework of the punitive operations against the residents of Eastern Ukraine.
on may 2 in clashes with militants "Right sector" and the football ultras, as well as the arson of a House of trade Unions were killed, according to various sources, more than 40 people. According to some media reports, the number of victims was more than 100 people. According to eyewitnesses of the fire, the guards did nothing to help the victims and to pacify radicals who beat who tried to escape from the fire activists.
After the incident the Governor of the Odessa region was appointed Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, comrade billionaire Igor Kolomoisky Igor Palitsa. The police chief was General-major Ivan Katerynchuk declared its political neutrality.
Seen a lot of speculation the guy is dead. Comments after this article discuss this. Avakov is the junta "official" who arranged the demise of that right sector goon Aleksandr Muzychko when he became a liability (or too independent?). Getting rid of the juniors privy to the Odessa falseflag would be his style. Initially, Ukrainian media was claiming Fuchedzhi had been detained/arrested. Later, Ukrainian "officials" said he wasn't detained, but came in for questioning. The 5am the next day, he's disappeared across the border. Let's see if Fuchedzhi shows up outside the Ukraine.
Posted by: scalawag | May 7 2014 22:21 utc | 59
@Sun Tzu I agree with your analysis. Very well done, I was thinking along these line but you filled in some missing pieces.
I wonder how the important card of Yanukovych would be played - it is necessary to establish continuation of the legitimate government in order to start the hunt for the murderous putchists and their terrorist enforcers to later prosecute them. But Yanukovych has not much credibility left among the people because of his handling the crisis. Maybe new "Rep. of SE Ukraine" declares inheritance of the legitimate Kyev government and allows for necessary legal steps. Yanukovych will step down and transfer legal power to some more popular/capable/robust leader?
Posted by: ProPeace | May 7 2014 22:41 utc | 60
East Ukraine referendum postponement to be put to vote May 8 http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730823
Posted by: Mitar | May 7 2014 22:44 utc | 61
Posted by: TomGard | May 7, 2014 6:18:05 PM | 55
Sorry, I do not follow you either. The work of death squads is always done by locals. Pravy Sektor/National Guard fit the bill and Parubij directs them.
I think part of the lack of shyness to be filmed is due to the fact that these people feel covered by the Ukrainian state - recognized as legal by European countries and the US.
What I am saying about Firtash and Poroshenko is simple. If we assume that Firtash backed Yanukovich and now backs Poroshenko who used to work with Yanukovich, and Poroshenko is the remaining candidate for EU/US as Tymoshenko is coming across more and more unstable, what did Victoria Nuland spend the 5 Billion on?
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 22:44 utc | 62
Alex Jones is IMHO a double agent and my new observation is that by listening to his broadcast you can indirectly learn which side is winning. It's subtleties in his mix and the way he talks that give it away, and he has certain very well information sources that he doesn't reveal. At present I rest assured that Russia "got this" and there is fucking way the NATO scumbaggery can gain any advantage. My biggest concern is how to minimize the collateral damage.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 7 2014 22:56 utc | 63
somebody | May 7, 2014 6:44:33 PM | 58
Your consideration on Firtash and Poroshenko works with the assumption, that Yanukowitch was a Russian proconsul. He was not. Or, the other way round, as far as he represented russian interests, he did this also by activly promoting EU-Association-treaty while halting NATO-Integration. So, which path Firtash and Porochenko will follow from now, seems independent of their former affiliations to me. The cards have been riffled.
Death squads are mostly - not always - locals, right, but in sophisticated cases advised and led by professionals - like it was done in Chile, Honduras, Nicaragua etc. But never mind, I won*t insist, it isn't that important at this stage.
So Putin makes a "peace" speech, coincidently Poroshenko is having a meeting with Merkel. Poroshenko an Merkel indorse Putin's offer. What happy coincidences!
Posted by: okie farmer | May 7 2014 23:27 utc | 65
Rather disgusting article (in terms of the horrifying pictures) at progressive website OpEd News called Odessa--The First Pogrom--The Obama Genocide by George Eliason
Link should be here Odessa--The First Pogrom--The Obama Genocide
The gangster in chief is now just like his idol Ronald Reagan and has his own death squads.
Not that any of this will see the light of day in the US state-corporate media. They are still high off of jacking each other off at the White House Correspondent's Dinner over the weekend and pointing out US sanctioned war crimes like this will not get them a return pass for next year's soiree.
Posted by: Donn Marten | May 7 2014 23:29 utc | 66
@Donn Marten #62:
Hm, that article says, "Women were raped." I haven't seen that claim made by any Russian sources.
Since the flow of gas is E-W, what stops E Ukraine from turning off the valves at the Dniepr?
Posted by: Cortes | May 8 2014 0:08 utc | 68
Posted by: Donn Marten | May 7, 2014 7:29:50 PM | 62
"Link should be here Odessa--The First Pogrom--The Obama Genocide"
Definitely. Thanks for posting that article. It has lots of info that English speakers don't have ready access to. It's good to see the information is making it past the usual censorship monitors of alternate western media. The info about the sort of CW gas involved is interesting. One witness from inside the Trade House building claimed after they had barricaded themselves inside a room, a colored smoke was seen coming from under the door that literally took their breath away. It should be investigated to find out if the evidence of CW at the Trade Union building matches that in Maripol. The junta wouldn't be a trusted investigator, but hopefully people might be able to get samples outside the Ukraine where they can be tested by non-western investigators.
Posted by: Demian | May 7, 2014 7:39:57 PM | 63
"Hm, that article says, "Women were raped." I haven't seen that claim made by any Russian sources."
I've seen more than a few, in the same context as in the Opednews article you are trying to discredit. Some of these have been posted on this site. Perhaps a bit more reading of the info, rather than trying to manipulate it, is in order?
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 0:16 utc | 69
my posts on Ukraine
Apr 16, 2014 9:50:46 AM | 132 ("Obama urges...") and
were questioned by "somebody" (sic)
now you know the source:
http://rt.com/news/156840-ukraine-human-right-abuses/
Posted by: Cu Chulainn | May 8 2014 0:25 utc | 70
Posted by: Demian | May 7, 2014 7:39:57 PM | 63
"Hm, that article says, "Women were raped." I haven't seen that claim made by any Russian sources."
Both of these sources have been posted at MoA:
Link to How Neo-Nazi Thugs Supported by Kiev Regime Killed Odessa Inhabitants. Photographic Evidence
Link to Как убивали одесситов в Доме Профсоюзов - детали сценария... +18
Variations of this information, similar reports and discussions of it are widespread on the Russian internet. Attempts to discredit it are likewise common on Ukrainian pro-junta sites.
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 0:30 utc | 71
'If I was to guess, Putin is deluded to think that the money will make the EU come to an arrangement and that the US will exclude the neofascists from Kyiv, leaving a bunch of oligarchs. Putin is used to oligarchs, he's got very little problem with them.
Posted by: stevenjohnson | May 7, 2014 1:59:50 PM | 10
tell that to Khodorkovsky or Berezkovsky etc
Posted by: brian | May 8 2014 0:34 utc | 72
@scalawag #65:
Sorry, I missed that. I don't follow all links that are posted here; if rape was mentioned in the body of a post, I didn't see that.
I tried posting a link to a Russian site describing the Trade Union building massacre, one I know I've seen on this site previously, but MoA is now blocking posts with links to that site from showing up.
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 0:53 utc | 74
he Kremlin, according to Barack Obama, is stuck in the "old ways," trapped in Cold War or even 19th century mindsets. But look closer at the Kremlin's actions during the crisis in Ukraine and you begin to see a very 21st century mentality, manipulating transnational financial interconnections, spinning global media, and reconfiguring geo-political alliances. Could it be that the West is the one caught up in the "old ways," while the Kremlin is the geopolitical avant-garde, informed by a dark, subversive reading of globalization?
Oh, that's nice. So the propagandists at FP are now claiming that Putin is the master of secret war, duplicity and subterfuge - even though we've seen the west running wars by all these means and more (including just plain ol' regular "war") for over 40 years now?
Of course, the first rule of information warfare is to accuse your opponent of all of your crimes so... this all makes a lot of sense.
Posted by: guest77 | May 8 2014 1:00 utc | 75
Posted by: guest77 | May 7, 2014 9:00:57 PM | 70
"Of course, the first rule of information warfare is to accuse your opponent of all of your crimes so..."
The way of the west. Their way of creating "reality" (Movietone News, anyone?), even before their stooges in nazi Germany were "invaded" by Polish etherials. Good thing that ole Bernays bugger taught chicks how to smoke and convinced Americans slaughtering people for oligarchs' profits in the WW1 bloodbath was the moral thing to do.
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 1:12 utc | 77
I guess the Saker isn't over his stomach bug: he's upset at Putin's latest move.
Pepe nails what's going on, as usual: The IMF goes to war in Ukraine
@guest77 #70:
To me, the White House is getting to sound increasingly irrelevant. I hope that's not just wishful thinking. I think Obama needed a breakthrough in relations between USG and Germany, but it didn't happen when Merkel was in Washington last week.
Request to all readers, writers, thinkers, communicators:
From now on, let's demand that 'pro-Russians' be referred to with the term that corresponds to reality:
'anti-fascists'
In the aftermath of Odessa, and today's events, noone can dispute this term. Let's insist in every blog, journal, video, newsletter, email, phone call . . .
Thanks.
Posted by: anonymous | May 8 2014 1:21 utc | 79
As Dniepr flows N-S, would annexation of Belarus open the possibility of major diversions to affect areas in the tradional downstream areas like Kiev?
Posted by: Cortes | May 8 2014 1:23 utc | 80
Western damage control in overdrive. We in the west are so fortunate to have these professional social engineers protecting our naive mental facilities. God knows (though which one?) how prone we are to "bad thoughts" without such altruistic "parental" direction.
"They show, it is claimed, signs of torture; women victims have been raped. There is no evidence to support these claims, but they fester in this atmosphere of malignant hatred and suspicion which is so bitterly dividing Ukraine."
Coincidentally...oh, hey, Demian, what's up?
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 1:40 utc | 81
@scalawag #76:
Can you give a link to a Russian language article saying that women were raped? I don't think b would block a Russian Web site; it's probably the generic blogging software that does it. So maybe you could write out the link, substituting 'dot' for '.'?
Incidentally, the top "world" story at Google News is presently this: Clinton condemns Nigerian kidnappings. Did anyone notice American "leaders" condemning the slaughter in Odessa? That none did, as far as I know, shows that Western leaders know very well who did it.
Google "Mommy Odessa" and the whole story of rape (of a pregnant woman) followed by strangulation by telephone wire should become abundant:
Posted by: Grieved | May 8 2014 2:17 utc | 83
Do you know more about claims (2 seemingly independent comments) on the Saker's site about suicides (by hanging) of the "Right Sector" death squad members coming back from Odessa?
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 2:17 utc | 84
The fact the OSCE is used in an attempt to bring a truce speaks volumes. The OSCE has been rendered worthless by the US who don't want peace & cooperation in Europe but only more conflict. (Source: Willy Wimmer, former aid of german chancellor Helmuth Kohl). Is the US desparately seeking to buy time ?
Posted by: Willy2 | May 8 2014 2:20 utc | 85
Posted by: Demian | May 7, 2014 10:03:15 PM | 77
"Can you give a link to a Russian language article saying that women were raped? I don't think b would block a Russian Web site; it's probably the generic blogging software that does it. So maybe you could write out the link, substituting 'dot' for '.'?"
I posted the link in two differently worded posts, both disappeared. The blocking setting works on the words in the link, not the "dots", and yes, it is manually set by the site host. You could look the comments up yourself, here, where Russian links are posted (provided they have not also now disappeared, ;), or you could search online. I realize this requires "work" above and beyond the call of normal duty, but you could always submit an extra expense form, and maybe even claim it as overtime. ;)
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 2:37 utc | 86
Posted by: stevenjohnson | May 7, 2014 1:59:50 PM | 10
Putin suggested the referendum be posponed not dropped...hard to hold a referndum in the current climate in Donbass
Johnson needs to troll with more subtlty
Posted by: brian | May 8 2014 2:41 utc | 88
Posted by: ProPeace | May 7, 2014 10:17:48 PM | 79
"Do you know more about claims (2 seemingly independent comments) on the Saker's site about suicides (by hanging) of the "Right Sector" death squad members coming back from Odessa?"
I have not seen anything about that. There has been hundreds of comments at that site in the last few days. Could you show where the comment is, or duplicate where the info comes from if it was a link?
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 2:43 utc | 89
Putin just hinted that May 25 would be a better choice;)
Putins speech
http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/7143
Posted by: brian | May 8 2014 2:44 utc | 90
Other Points of View: RUSSIA REPORT: PUTIN
IMF Loan to Ukraine in SDR, not US Dollars
JaysAnalysis Called It: IMF Plan to Loot Ukraine Revealed
S. Arabia Relocating Takfiri Fighters from Syria to Ukraine
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 3:08 utc | 91
The problem is that the Kiev regime wants to lose half of their country.
From the moment they took power, the Kiev regime was systematically weakening and dismantling the state institution force. They disbanded the riot police, Berkut, and disbanded the 25th airborne brigade which refused to shoot the unarmed protesters in Slovyansk. They are replacing the police and army with right wing militias.
I don't think this action is out of stupidity or desperation. It is part of plan to start a civil war which will force the Russian speaking part of Ukraine to leave.
A Kiev regime guy was kind enough to explain their plan.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/ukraine-donetsk-pro-russia-militants
Todorov – a supporter of Ukrainian statehood – said he was deeply pessimistic about his country's future. He said he doubted presidential elections due to be held on 25 May would take place, at least not in the east. And in Kiev, he suggested, there was a growing feeling that Ukraine would be better off dumping its troublesome eastern provinces and creating a modern European country without them.
I don't think dumping the eastern provinces is a reaction to the recent development there. It was their plan all along.
They learned their lesson from the Orange revolution. They cannot secure their power and move Ukraine to the west with the Russian speaking parts within Ukraine. Therefore they are going to lose them this time.
They want bloody destruction of Ukraine and form a new pure Ukraine nation from the ashes without the eastern parts. And they will blame it on Russia. Also they count on the full support from Europe and the US once Ukraine explodes in blood and becomes the frontline state in the new cold war with Russia.
Therefore they will not participate in any negotiation which will preserve united Ukraine.
They can be stopped only by Europe saying in no uncertain terms that they will not get any support from Europe for their plan for divided and nationally pure Ukraine.
However European leaders are still meekly following the US leads, hoping that the procession to the slaughter house will stop at the gate. They behave like a deer caught on headlights. When will they wake up?
Posted by: PuppetMaster | May 8 2014 3:09 utc | 92
@PuppetMaster: You may be right Zion Splits Ukraine
Also hasbara has become awfully silent recently, here, on other independent English speaking fora and on the Polish Internet, e.g. gazeta.pl, comparing to the levels from a 1 week ago. It's weird. Something's up.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 3:25 utc | 93
'And in Kiev, he suggested, there was a growing feeling that Ukraine would be better off dumping its troublesome eastern provinces and creating a modern European country without them.'
what exactly is a 'modern european country'? is this a reference to gemany or to greece?
'modern european countrise' handed power to the US thru the Brussels puppet institution... is that what he is looking forward to?
Posted by: brian | May 8 2014 3:26 utc | 94
to Demian 77
you remember our little exchange yesterday Demian about the way "the saker" supressed my comments as I questioned his reasoning?????.....I quote from his blog today...
"I don't know about you - but I am personally unimpressed to say the least about the numbers of men who turned up to fight against the junta. Yes, some did and they are fighting hard but, again, this is not South Ossetia by a long shot. I did see small groups of determined men fighting back, but I did not see large hordes of infuriated miners organizing a mass demonstration or, even less so, attacking the junta's forces. Did you?
So where the hell is everybody? Sitting at home and waiting for the outcome?
That knowledgeable gentleman should be asked to post the quote he supressed and see if there are any similarities with his analysis of today!!!!!!!!.....
Posted by: Tantin | May 8 2014 3:26 utc | 95
Very interesting about PutinRUSSIA REPORT: PUTIN
Curious: IMF Loan to Ukraine in SDR, not US Dollars
Recall Stiglitz: IMF Plan to Loot Ukraine Revealed
Saudis digging their own grave: S. Arabia Relocating Takfiri Fighters from Syria to Ukraine
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 3:32 utc | 96
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 3:39 utc | 97
Let me put forward a theory regarding Fuchedzhi. First of all, we agree he managed the false flag "red armband" group. He ordered his police to let them through to attack the football supporters, then to let them back out when the football supporters chased them, then to close lines so that the football supporters would head for the trade union building and the peace camp in front of it, blaming "pro-Russians" in general for the attack they (the football crowd) had just experienced, and trash everything, while the red armbands (now no longer pretending to be "pro-Russian" but instead looking like Right Sector again) went ahead with the wet work. OK?
Now, Fuchedzi must have thought he was going to get a nice promotion, and indeed there were rumours in the immediate aftermath that he would (I saw them in eglish translations of the event). But instead his masters in Kiev doublecrossed him. They told him, now you have to take the rap for letting the "pro-Russians" attack the football crowd. You have to go into court, admit your dereliction of duty, even admit you were bribed or seduced by Russian agents (Olga the beautiful spy, maybe). You have to reinforce the public myth that the "red armbands" were real "pro-Russians". Then, and only then, we will quietly spirit you away to a dacha somewhere and you can enjoy a modestly affluent retirement.
At this point, Fuchedzi realises that he should never have gotten into bed with these serpents, and he does a runner, just like in the movies.
:-)
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 8 2014 3:57 utc | 98
The way Putin treats Russian people reminds me of the movie "Jerry McGuire". Possibly soon the people in the West will start asking their leaders "why aren't you treating us like Putin is treating his people?" (similarly to one of the last scenes in the movie).
Posted by: ProPeace | May 8 2014 4:09 utc | 99
Posted by: ProPeace | May 7, 2014 11:39:12 PM | 91
Thanks.
Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 4:21 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I find unlikely that a minimally credible referendum could go ahead in just 4 days from now. I don't see signs of a strong enough organization to do it now.
Posted by: z | May 7 2014 17:03 utc | 1