Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 08, 2014

Ukraine: It's Now For The Long Run

From a February 2008 wikileaked cable by the U.S. embassy in Moscow:

Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.

Russia decided to not intervene, for now, and to leave the poison cocktail the "west" created boiling and in the "west's" responsibility.

Putin's offer from yesterday was not accepted within the Ukraine. The coup government announced to continue its "anti-terrorism" campaign against federalists in the east and the federalists in Donetsk and Lugansk announced not to cancel their referendum.

Elsewhere Putin's offer was somewhat accepted. It had, as Putin had announced, already been coordinated with the German chancellor Merkel and today the OSCE as the relevant organization presented a yet to be published roadmap to Russia.

If there is no serious offer of federalization in the roadmap Russia will let the Ukraine issue boil on a lower flame. The social-economic upheaval that is sure to come will in due time swamp away the coup government. Russia can always use its economic and energy leverage to hasten or slow down that process.

The whole case of Ukraine is no likely to be a longer run issue and, unless some unforeseen massacre takes place, I expect no further immediate action from the Russian side.

Posted by b on May 8, 2014 at 14:32 UTC | Permalink

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b, I would add, that the coordination between Putin and Merkel was intended to get to that Presidential election. Putin can deal with Poroshenko - just another oligarch, which Putin's been dealing with for 20 years, both in Russia and Ukraine. What Putin cannot deal with is the coup govt - nor anyone else.

It's going to be very interesting to see that "roadmap".

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8 2014 15:07 utc | 1

I do not see May 9 going well

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 15:15 utc | 2

Which is to say that the struggle within Ukraine becomes critical. The military struggle in the east, to protect themselves from western fascists using NATO to build a strong centralised, fascist, state will have to be linked to a political struggle to re-define society, to expel oligarchy, to repossess public property and to create a democratic society.

By moving in this direction not only will enormous popular energies be liberated, also the authoritarian, class divided and uninhabitably unjust dystopia being constructed by the IMF will crumble of its own accord as people see that there is an alternative, which is both accessible and viable.

If there is a referendum it can only be a very modest first step, to protect itself the Ukraine must plunge into a period of incessant election and recall to revive the old trraditions of collective deliberation and government, which after 1905 found expression in the soviet experiment.

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2014 15:18 utc | 3

Well done b. Not to nit pick but by fasten I think you meant "hasten" or to speed up. Fasten means to tie as in fasten your seat belt. AFAIK it is cognate with the German "fest" meaning bound together but my German is rusty so not sure.

Posted by: Lysander | May 8 2014 15:21 utc | 4

Doesn't matter what happens with the referendum. You know who will say it was rigged.

Posted by: dh | May 8 2014 15:27 utc | 5

The problem is that massacre is all foreseeable.

Because that is the only way the Kiev regime can survive. As you said, in the longer run, there is nothing but trouble for the Kiev regime. Their survival depends on starting a civil war and getting full support from Europe and the US as a frontline garrison state in the new cold war with Russia.

They never intended to rule Ukraine. They want to destroy Ukraine, and build a new nationally pure nation shorn of that impure Russian speaking parts from the ashes and dead bodies of the manufactured disaster.

It is the same deal they had with Nazi Germany. It is also the same deal South Korea got, another garrison state on the front line of the old cold war. Because of the status as a frontline garrison state, South Korea could escape the worst of neo-colonial exploitation. There, once the Kiev regime achieve that special status, the IMF loan will be revised, becoming less onerous, and they will get lots of aids. At least, that is their calculation.

If Russia can persuade Europe and especially Germany to destroy their hope for the full support once the civil war starts, then it may be prevented. However it is not yet certain if Russia will succeed.

Posted by: PuppetMaster | May 8 2014 15:28 utc | 6

It looks to me like Putin's actual comments have been scrubbed from most news reports. Yesterday, the NY Times ran an article with his comments about " direct dialogue, genuine, full-fledged dialogue between the Kiev authorities and representatives of southeast Ukraine."

But now, it looks like they have removed them from their updated article.
It looks like the bigwigs do not want the little people to know what Putin actually said.
Has anyone else noticed this?

Posted by: plantman | May 8 2014 15:43 utc | 7

Donetsk and Lugansk will hold referendum on May 11 as planned

There's a photo of stacks of the referendum forms.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 15:50 utc | 8

plantman, 7

you got link to that times article?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 15:57 utc | 9

I think Putin's announcement yesterday was predicated on the knowledge that even a junta military campaign unrestrained by the threat of a Russian ground invasion is going to be unable to secure eastern Ukraine. So Putin is playing to Europe, as b suggests, looking magisterial while allowing the U.S. and its Kiev junta toadies to overextend themselves in an orgy of civil disorder and bloodshed.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 8 2014 16:01 utc | 10

So the Odessa atrocity is rumored to go back to the same Fatherland (Timoshenko) MP Pashinski who was seen packing a sniper rifle into his car on Maidan.

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 16:09 utc | 11

b- thanks for the article and 2008 wikileak cable reminding us how NATO is an obvious part of the puzzle here.

@3 - bevin quote "The military struggle in the east..."

unfortunately since the cia and other top reps from the usa have visited kiev, what you refer to is now being defined as 'terrorist' activity. someone is determined to not find a happy solution to any of this, or what i believe are the legitimate aspirations of those wanting to distance themselves from the leadership in kiev. we will see how it goes.

Posted by: james | May 8 2014 16:15 utc | 12

Well,if this referendum is held,you can bet the right sector will try to impede its implementation,closing polls or violently preventing attendance.
Is all this Obombas anger at being exposed and humiliated over Syria provocations?Wouldn't surprise me,he's definitely ego centric.

Posted by: dahoit | May 8 2014 16:35 utc | 13

"Is all this Obombas anger at being exposed and humiliated over Syria provocations?Wouldn't surprise me,he's definitely ego centric."

Barrack Banana is a hapless clown and im not sure that golf playing fag is for real, but his white masters do have pretty big ego´s, yes.

Posted by: mikey | May 8 2014 16:49 utc | 14

In a piece today, the NY Times gives a link to another obviously fake recording:

In the conversation, riddled with expletives, Mr. Boitsov suggests canceling the referendum and Mr. Barkashov insists that it must go forward, by saying that it is ridiculous to consider holding a real vote. “Are you going to walk around and collect papers?” he asks incredulously, his words punctuated by curses. “Are you insane?”

“Let’s say that 89 percent voted for the Donetsk Republic and that’s it,” Mr. Barkashov says.

Unsurprisingly, comments on the recording are switched off at YouTube. The Yuki regime are dumber that Keystone cops. All they know how to do is to kill unarmed civilians.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 16:55 utc | 15

Interesting analysis of what occurred in Trade Building in Odessa (warning contains graphic pictures)

http://ersieesist.livejournal.com/813.html?nojs=

Posted by: WG | May 8 2014 17:08 utc | 16

@13, dahoit no need to fall into the traps of the West in personalizing this. If this is in any way a result of someone's anger in Washington, DC it's the result of the anger of the permanent government that Obama wriggled out of Syria.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 8 2014 17:13 utc | 17

Dear b,
typo: "a lower falme" ? you mean "flame" ?

Posted by: Mina | May 8 2014 17:29 utc | 18

this is good: Diane Johnstone at
http://www.counterpunch.org

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2014 17:38 utc | 19

The way forward for the Ukrainian people is not federalization and/or neutralization, it is the overthrow of the Maidan regime, not just the neofascist wing of the bloc, but the oligarch wing as well. I don't understand how Putin is wise not to move into the east, and get sucked into a trap. A neofascist Ukraine in NATO is the trap he should have wanted to avoid. When he moved into Crimea, he already "fell" for the alleged bait. After the resistance is finally crushed, there will be a permanent problem of disputed territory in Crimea. His short-sightedness in grabbing something seemingly easy and his political cowardice in acceding to neofascist rule has reduced Putin to a Yanukovych, uneasily temporizing with the unappeasable but allied with the oligarchs against the people.

Posted by: stevenjohnson | May 8 2014 17:40 utc | 20

@Bob In Portland #15:

Obama personalized this:

Asked whether he can get ‘big stuff done without having a good personal relationship with Putin,’ Obama responded by noting that ‘I know the press likes to focus on body language and he’s got that kind of slouch, looking like the bored kid in the classroom.’

I don't think we've ever had a president with such poor manners.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 17:44 utc | 21

The economist repeats the Odessa Tymoshenko accusation

Local pro-Ukrainian activists claim to have “reliable” information that both Hennadiy Trukhanov, the pro-Russian candidate for the mayor's office in Odessa, and Aleksandr Dubovoy, ostensibly a pro-Ukrainian who heads the former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko's election campaign in the city, had placed paid fighters in the crowd. They say that later, individuals unknown to anyone in Odessa's pro-Ukrainian movement were seen chanting Ukrainian slogans outside the burning building.

What the pro-Russians might gain seems obvious: the fight led to an escalation of tensions, greater sympathy for the pro-Russian side, and intimidation among the pro-Ukrainians, who have cancelled their regular demonstrations in Odessa for the moment. Mr Dubovoy's involvement might seem incongruous, but it is increasingly common in Ukraine to hear speculation that Yulia Tymoshenko wants to sabotage a presidential election she cannot win.

Supporters of the "Maidan" movement that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych and put the current pro-Western team in place are inclined to doubt their pro-Russian opponents' narrative of a nationalist massacre in Odessa - and with good reason. Their position is sadly undermined, though, by the government's failure to carry out a satisfactory, independent investigation into the shootings of 82 Maidan militants on February 20th.

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 17:52 utc | 22

@20 - humm. that koolaid tastes good, lol..

Posted by: james | May 8 2014 18:05 utc | 23

Demian

I bet michelle have obama in a leash when hes home because of the puppet clown he really is.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 18:08 utc | 24

@Anonymous #24:

Michelle and her mother need to be kept on a leash themselves:

Beijing hotel workers already 'fed up' with Obama entourage – and the first lady's mother is 'barking at the staff'

Michelle Obama and three of her family members are staying in a $8,350-per-night Beijing presidential suite, but despite a 24-hour butler and other perks that come with the lodging, her entourage has inconvenienced 'pretty much everyone' and made the hotel staff 'fed up,' a well-placed hotel staffer has told MailOnline.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 18:18 utc | 25

There are two important elements that need to be seen in the context of Putin's statements yesterday. #1 The Odessa massacre horrified some European leaders. #2 The Europeans nixed demands by Obama to impose more sanctions against Russia. Chancellor Merkel is leading this non-confrontational approach and in this she is seconded by president Hollande. France has a $50 billion exposure to the Russian economy. Merkel has distanced herself from blindly following Obama's lead. Merkel went to Washington on a mission dictated by German industrialists and business leaders who are close to Putin. She was rebuffed by Obama on three counts. She demanded an end to NSA spying and snooping, she demanded the Gold reserves to be returned to Germany and she demanded for Obama to talk to Putin and find a settlement. She returned empty handed on all of her demands. Obama is risking isolation except for NATO's mouthpieces and Kiev's putschists. Kerry will have to come around with a different approach.

Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 8 2014 18:37 utc | 26

Finally, a good English language account of the massacre:

Western cover-up of the Odessa massacre

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 18:38 utc | 27

BTW, German's call Merkel Nipples

Posted by: HAHA | May 8 2014 18:42 utc | 28

@Sun Tzu #26:

[Merkel] was rebuffed by Obama on three counts. She demanded an end to NSA spying and snooping, she demanded the Gold reserves to be returned to Germany and she demanded for Obama to talk to Putin and find a settlement.

Do you have a link(s) for the latter two? I only heard about the first, and she domestically downplayed whether she would get much on that score.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 18:49 utc | 29

Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 8, 2014 2:37:54 PM | 26

#1 The Odessa massacre horrified some European leaders. This is very likely. Merkel asking Obama for some accommodation with Putin is likely, too, though press releases emphasise their unity on Ukraine. The gold reserve stuff is plain silly.

It is also very likely that the massacre also horrified a large part of the pro Maidan crowd - and that they suspect the "heavenly hundred" and the Odessa massacre were planned by the same perpetrators.

This here is pro Maidan Kyiv Post on the Massacre - interviewing two of the survivors.

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 19:13 utc | 30

From the above Kyiv Post link

Meanwhile the Ukrainian State Security Service says toxic chemicals were used in the Trade Unions House fire, and the violence was orchestrated and financed from outside with the connivance of local police who, along with emergency services, did not arrive at Kulykove Pole Square until hours after the clashes began.

Those youtube videos are just too clear for denial.

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 19:15 utc | 31

Basically, fuck this shit. Novorossiya is the revolution. We can fight it out on the streets in every city, every country and knock these motherfuckers on their asses. All we need is the internet and a weapon for each man, woman and child . . . then we can move on to implement a process of direct democracy to facilitate anarchist and communist ideals.

May 9 Victory Day

Posted by: anonymous | May 8 2014 19:28 utc | 32

Re: the Johnstone article

Sure, the West must attempt to understand Putin etc etc but even MORE important people in the West - especially those living in the US - need to understand just what the leaders of the US are: inhuman psychotic war criminal monsters that could give a rat's ass about strangling pregnant women, gassing a bunch of fucking children, incinerating entire peaceful cities, slaughtering entire rural villages,leaving behind DU for generations of birth defects, blowing up a bunch of their own citizens, locking millions of their own citizens for life for no fucking reason etc etc etc and on and on and on.

I agree that to understand Putin is important - I'm not arguing - but the hard work that is critically needed before any thing can change is that Westerners need to understand just who the leaders of the United States are and what their MO is: needless cold-blooded murder and assorted crimes over and over and over again.

People need to viscerally understand that they are dealing with inhuman monsters with a loooong track record of some of the most horrendous crimes in the history of Western civilization - made even more so as they were 1) committed in the name of "freedom/democracy" and 2) nearly every modern Western leader - to a person - has condoned - either vociferously or silently - these war crimes.

I was just reading a fake left poster on another site talk about why he's not that angry anymore about all the shit the US does - i.e., he always knew the US wasn't "free" "democratic" etc - and how he was now just too cynical to get riled up anymore. Motherfucker, for the ability to be able to slap someone's fake left bitchy little ass through a monitor.

Hey, fake fucking left, yeah you with all of your fucking bourgeois know-it-all-ism and your fear of coming across as "moral" as it might smack of religion or something - heaven fucking forbid - the reason you should still be fucking pissed even if you are cynical - and believe me you can't get much more cynical than myself - is because - hello? anyone home? - INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE STILL FUCKING BEING NEEDLESSLY MURDERED/RAPED/MAIMED/TORTURED AND STOLEN FROM!!!

Is it that too fucking hard for the fake left to understand? That being pissed about people getting needlessly murdered/raped/maimed/stolen from does NOT mean you're a fucking priest/rabbi/reverend or what have you? That it's possible - nay your duty as a human fucking being - to still get fucking pissed about said crimes even after having witnessed the same crimes being committed over and over and over again for decades?

Holy fuck, the propaganda is so effective on the fake left here in the US it STILL blows my fucking mind.

Gee, do ya think fake lefties that your bourgeois "numbness" to the continued crimes of our overlords just MIGHT be part of the propaganda battery's design? That after a while continued exposure to said crimes could be counted on to "soften" up people's "moral" sensibilities and turn them into a sophisticated compliance? Do ya? Do ya really? Holy fucking A.

Jesus fucking christ, quit being so ineffectually analytical about everything, quit trying to beat our aloofly murderous overlords at THEIR game and get righteously pissed off at the shit you are forced to witness living in this is cesspool instead of taking it not just like a bunch of obedient little bitches but a bunch of obedient little bitches that think they are not taking it because they're "savvy" little bitches. Pathetic.

A while back someone asked so who are the "real" left:

Answer - and I'm not, mind you, a religious person in any respect: you shall know them by their deeds.

And if writing on blogs is your "deed" fake lefties at least show us that you're not the emotionless pissant drone TPTB want you to be.

/rant

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 8 2014 19:38 utc | 33

Re: the Johnstone article

Sure, the West must attempt to understand Putin etc etc but even MORE important people in the West - especially those living in the US - need to understand just what the leaders of the US are: inhuman psychotic war criminal monsters that could give a rat's ass about strangling pregnant women, gassing a bunch of f*cking children, incinerating entire peaceful cities, slaughtering entire rural villages,leaving behind DU for generations of birth defects, blowing up a bunch of their own citizens, locking millions of their own citizens for life for no f*cking reason etc etc etc and on and on and on.

I agree that to understand Putin is important - I'm not arguing - but the hard work that is critically needed before any thing can change is that Westerners need to understand just who the leaders of the United States are and what their MO is: needless cold-blooded murder and assorted crimes over and over and over again.

People need to viscerally understand that they are dealing with inhuman monsters with a loooong track record of some of the most horrendous crimes in the history of Western civilization - made even more so as they were 1) committed in the name of "freedom/democracy" and 2) nearly every modern Western leader - to a person - has condoned - either vociferously or silently - these war crimes.

I was just reading a fake left poster on another site talk about why he's not that angry anymore about all the shit the US does - i.e., he always knew the US wasn't "free" "democratic" etc - and how he was now just too cynical to get riled up anymore. Motherfucker, for the ability to be able to slap someone's fake left bitchy little ass through a monitor.

Hey, fake left, yeah you with all of your f*cking bourgeois know-it-all-ism and your fear of coming across as "moral" as it might smack of religion or something - heaven forbid - the reason you should still be f*cking pissed even if you are cynical - and believe me you can't get much more cynical than myself - is because - hello? anyone home? - INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE STILL F*CKING BEING NEEDLESSLY MURDERED/RAPED/MAIMED/TORTURED AND STOLEN FROM!!!

Is it that too f*cking hard for the fake left to understand? That being pissed about people getting needlessly murdered/raped/maimed/stolen from does NOT mean you're a f*cking priest/rabbi/reverend or what have you? That it's possible - nay your duty as a human f*cking being - to still get f*cking pissed about said crimes even after having witnessed the same crimes being committed over and over and over again for decades?

Holy f*ck, the propaganda is so effective on the fake left here in the US it STILL blows my effing mind.

Gee, do ya think fake lefties that your bourgeois "numbness" to the continued crimes of our overlords just MIGHT be part of the propaganda battery's design? That after a while continued exposure to said crimes could be counted on to "soften" up people's "moral" sensibilities and turn them into a sophisticated compliance? Do ya? Do ya really? Holy fucking A.

Jesus f*cking christ, quit being so ineffectually analytical about everything, quit trying to beat our aloofly murderous overlords at THEIR game and get righteously pissed off at the shit you are forced to witness living in this is cesspool instead of taking it not just like a bunch of obedient little bitches but a bunch of obedient little bitches that think they are not taking it because they're "savvy" little bitches. Pathetic.

A while back someone asked so who are the "real" left:

Answer - and I'm not, mind you, a religious person in any respect: you shall know them by their deeds.

And if writing on blogs is your "deed" fake lefties at least show us that you're not the emotionless pissant drone TPTB want you to be.

/rant

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 8 2014 19:42 utc | 34

Posted by: anonymous | May 8, 2014 3:28:25 PM | 32

Listen, do you really want to do a rerun of Ukraine's history, I mean really all of it?

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2014 19:42 utc | 35

Germany whoring out again on nsa!
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2542373/pg1

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 19:52 utc | 36

I'm with you, JSorrentine. The bourgeois left have run out of poses to strike. Obama and Ukraine represent an end of the line. You can tell Elizabeth Warren is being boosted to keep folks on the reservation. But the Deep State will rumble on even if Pussy Riot is at the top of the Democratic ticket.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 8 2014 20:01 utc | 37

@35
No, not whoring. Merkel is trying to save Edward Snowden's life. Why on earth would the German Green Party want to make Snowden immediately extraditable to the US by bringing him to Berlin to "testify" about NSA "spying". I read about that push by the Greens month or so back. I can only assume they knew better, but were trying to score political points.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8 2014 20:19 utc | 38

okie farmer

Stop defending Merkel, read the article she does it for america say so.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 20:29 utc | 39

hey, JSorrentine, why do you use an * in place of a u (sometimes) when you write fuck, or fucking?

Posted by: john | May 8 2014 20:35 utc | 40

Anonymous, I read the article. She didn't say a word, "Officials say a personal invitation for US whistleblower to attend hearing would put 'grave strain' on US-German relations."
I'm not defending Merkel. She's in a tight situation on many issues with US. She's probably the only friend Putin has in the EU. I actually despise her for many things, most especially for defending the neoliberal putchists who have taken over the ECB, European Commission, and the European Council.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8 2014 20:43 utc | 41

okie farmer

Ok. If you cant see how Merkel is bowing towards America by refusing to even grant Snowden an interview, with that link, nothing will.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 20:48 utc | 42

@somebody #30

Precious Metal Abroad: Why Germany Wants to See its US Gold

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York continues to hold 1,536 metric tons of German gold -- or nearly half of Berlin's reserves. However, not even the owners are allowed to view their own gold. According to the Federal Audit Office report, the Fed explained that "in the interest of security and of the control process" no "viewings" are possible. In 2007, following numerous enquiries, Bundesbank staff members were allowed to see the facility, but they reportedly only made it to the anteroom of the German reserves.

Statistics World Gold Council

Posted by: Oui | May 8 2014 20:53 utc | 43

@okie farmer #39:

My views on Merkel are essentially the same as yours.

As for Snowden, a while back I made a comment quoting a former German official saying that Germany could not guarantee Snowden's safety if he came to Germany. (This of course has nothing to do with Germany being an occupied country. As several people helpfully remind us, Germany is not an occupied country.) And of course that official wasn't thinking about rendition. No, USG would extradite Snowden if he came to Germany.

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 20:59 utc | 44

hey, JSorrentine, why do you use an * in place of a u (sometimes) when you write fuck, or fucking?

Posted by: john | May 8, 2014 4:35:01 PM | 38

In case Putin's reading. He doesn't want to injure Vlad's sensitive ears. Putin doesn't suffer potty mouths.

Vladimir Putin signs ban on 'foul language' in films, books and performances

Vladimir Putin, Russia's president, has signed a Soviet-style law banning swearing in films, television broadcasts, books and public performances. In a move harking back to the cultural conservatism of Russia's Communist years, books containing "foul language" will have to carry a special warning, and offenders may be subject to fines of up to £830. The text of the new law “bans the use of obscene language while ensuring the rights of Russian citizens to the use of the state language, and protecting and developing language culture,” the Kremlin said in a statement. Films containing banned words may be refused distribution, while actors using prohibited language face performance bans of up to three months....

More at link

What a shame. Generations of Russians will never get to see Scarface. Talk about tragedies, that's a tragedy; watching Scarface is a right of passage that should be available unencumbered for all the world.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 8 2014 21:06 utc | 45

Russian media now report minor false flag attacks at a checkpoint at Russian/Ukraine border.
Just as people warned about the other day!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 21:18 utc | 46

hey b, wasn't it like a week ago or something that you and pretty much everyone else was saying that the coup government had acknowledged defeat, that it had lost control over its forces in the east?

Posted by: john | May 8 2014 21:20 utc | 47

now that Pragma is gone there's only JSor to remind us what it means to be a human being

Posted by: Cu Chulainn | May 8 2014 21:22 utc | 48

Sorrentines rant is all very well - but he won't do anything other than rant - like all of us here - they know where you live.

Posted by: bridger | May 8 2014 21:24 utc | 49

Anonymous, that article "proves" nothing. But Merkel's press conference with O last weekend proves a lot - basically that she is subservient to USG - much more than your article. Have a look at the transcript:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/05/02/full-transcript-obama-merkel-press-conference/

She's not alone in the West, not a single Western leader has said an honest word about what's going on in Ukraine, and as JSorrentine has pointed out "... inhuman psychotic war criminal monsters..." (and that's certainly what they are) hasn't been mentioned by any leader either. In politics sociopaths rise to the top.

One of my other beefs with Merkel (among many), when she was in the second year of her first term, she proposed that Germany should declare itself a "Christian Nation". DW published my letter condemning her for that. And you know what - she quit.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8 2014 21:34 utc | 50

okie farmer

So first you say I am wrong and then say she is "subservient", which of course is just my point?
Merkel havent done anything about nsa/snowden instead she do what obama wants her to do.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 21:46 utc | 51

On one of the earlier posted Ukraine discussions, a couple of days ago I posted an article about a plot exposed to use right sector goons disguised as anti-junta people with "Russian" uniforms and weapons, to create a new provocation at a Ukrainian border station and make it look like Russians did it. It looks like the nazis went ahead with a modified version of their plan.

Link to Unidentified assailants attempt to seize crossing point on Russian-Ukrainian border

A group of armed men wearing black uniforms attempted to seize control of a customs checkpoint on the Ukrainian side of the border between Ukraine and Russia, the head of the Russian Customs Service Andrei Belyaninov said Thursday, RIA Novosti reports.

"A provocative act took place at the Izvarino customs checkpoint on the Russian-Ukrainian border," Andrei Belyaninov said.

"A group of unidentified people wearing black uniforms and St. George ribbons set the customs office on fire and fled the scene," Belyaninov said.

Izvarino border crossing point is located in Ukraine's eastern Luhansk region, which has recently become a hotbed of a violent standoff between the Kiev regime and pro-federalization supporters.

Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 21:51 utc | 52

@48: Why do you call Putin "Vlad"? Don't you know that the nickname for Vladimir is "Volodya"? "Vlad" is a Romanian name.

Posted by: lysias | May 8 2014 21:53 utc | 53

No, Anonymous, I'm trying to tell you the article you linked to is bullshit.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8 2014 22:04 utc | 54

Link to Lawmaker calls for CIS human rights court to try Ukrainian violators

"A senior Russian MP has suggested the Commonwealth of Independent States set up its own Court of Human Rights to investigate the events that led the current Kiev regime taking power and the actions of pro-Maidan radicals against federalization supporters.

MP Leonid Slutskiy of the Liberal-Democratic party caucus said he supported other Russian lawmakers in their intent to present a lawsuit against the Ukrainian authorities to the International Criminal Court in the Hague, but added that the CIS – the Russia-led economic and political bloc uniting many of the former Soviet republics – could set up a criminal court of its own in order to judge on everything that took place in Ukraine from February this year.

“Representatives of the so called Kiev authorities who have ordered a punitive operation in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, and who turn a blind eye at the massacre in Odessa, must be tried and convicted as war criminals. This is a repetition of the WWII tragedies, a second Katyn and a second Auschwitz. Only in the Odessa case this is the extermination of [Ukraine’s] own people,” Slutskiy was quoted as saying by the RIA Novosti news agency.

“In connection with this I can only support the suggestion to address the International Tribunal in the Hague and to the European Court of Human Rights. We should also again think about founding a separate Human Rights court within the CIS framework,” the parliamentarian said.

Earlier this week MP Mikhail Markelov (United Russia) told reporters that he was preparing an official request to the Foreign Ministry to start suing Ukrainian authorities in the Hague in connection with the massacre in Odessa on May 2."

An international court to try western war criminals. Works for me.

Posted by: scalawag | May 8 2014 22:09 utc | 55

@35

Believe it or not I think there's some sort of "fuck" counter on b's site. My post was bitcanned originally but once I took away a couple of "u's" my post appeared.

Remember: nobody cares how much you fucking know unless they know how much you fucking care.

@47

Yup, they know where we all are but I'd rather them know that we're all fucking pissed off rather than complacent sophisticated dupes. Anger - even if only expressed in written form - affects people a bit differently than calmness and can get a point across more effectively at times. Of course, the fake left tells us over and again how such emotions only inhibit "real" progress and that expressions of how pissed off one is at repeatedly getting fucked/being a passive party to war crimes will only hinder polite "realistic" conversations about the compromises/concessions that us peons will inevitably have to make ONCE AGAIN to our overlords. The Left hasn't been angry in DECADES and once it stopped being angry and started being "reasonable" (read: Third Way, neoliberal, etc) the end was nigh. If the past is any precedent, they're going to murder/beat/jail/steal from us anyways so why not at least let 'em know that you really really believe they are inhuman fucking scum?

OT: A great example of the propaganda used to help bring about this workers' "alienation from anger"(h/t: Marx): what was that like really popular movie series that repeatedly told everyone over and over again that being angry was going to the "dark side" and that if one got angry it really was because he/she was afraid and all sorts of other such horseshit nonsense that an entire generation of people just lapped up? That to be a true "warrior of the good" was to be an unemotional, logically drive pussy who saw that taking a light-saber up the ass from a bad guy was the cool thing to do and which allowed one the possibility - oh boy - of being a super-kewel blue ghost in someone's head some day? It's on the tip of my tongue....

Gotta run.


Posted by: JSorrentine | May 8 2014 22:32 utc | 56

Okie farmer

So now she isnt subserviant?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2014 23:02 utc | 57

Draftees mutinied in the Vietnam War. Getting yourself killed in an unwinnable forever war is pointless. To keep fighting colonial wars the US Army was made over as a volunteer force with privatized security and logistic. After eleven years and soldiers pulling five and six tours in two endless wars, the volunteer army is exhausted and is unfit for another attempt at regime change. The neo-conservative/neo-liberal deep state has hired barbarians to keep their wars going; Jihadists in Syria and neo-nazis in Ukraine. They no longer have the people’s support for their wars. Like Rome, the Ottoman Empire and all the Chinese Empires, the USA has lost the mandate from heaven and is collapsing before our very eyes. The new barbarians will turn on the American Empire as they always have done before.

Vladimir Putin has avoided a nuclear war for now. The only question left “is he playing the long game”. If so, he will form alliances with China and the BRICs for a second world payment system and try to avoid the death throes of the American Hegemony.

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 8 2014 23:24 utc | 58

Gee, the apartheid genocidal state of Israel's role in Ukraine gets curiouser by the minute.

Remember yesterday when I quoted that the Head Rabbi of Ukraine, Yaacov Dov Bleich, who had this to say:

“All of the violence, and when I say all, I mean every single case of violence of Ukrainian against Ukrainian has been instigated and implemented by the pro-Russians – initiated, implemented, instigated.”

And who hardly could contain his excitement as to how the Ukraine "crisis" was going to boost the apartheid genocidal state of Israel's aliyah numbers?

Why, it looks like the Rabbi is also helping "organize" - nudge, wink - "former" Israeli IDF soldiers in Ukraine into merry bands of pro-Ukrainian-neo-Nazi vigilantes.

Arieli said he set up the task force — which now has its own Facebook page – at the request of Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi of Ukraine, following a series of anti-Semitic attacks that occurred in Kiev and beyond in the wake of a bloody revolution that erupted in November over former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych’s alleged corruption and perceived allegiance to Russia.

Awesome!!!


Posted by: JSorrentine | May 8 2014 23:34 utc | 59

@VietnamVet #56:

the US Army was made over as a volunteer force with privatized security and logistic.

I hadn't seen those as related before. Was there any reason to privatize security and logistics when the switch to a volunteer force was made, other then giving some Republican military officers the chance to become rich? Aren't military contractors (mercenaries) significantly more expensive for the Pentagon than soldiers?

Posted by: Demian | May 8 2014 23:39 utc | 60

Holy shit!

A montage published by Politikus.ru yesterday purports to show that Danish "OSCE inspector" John G.O. Christensen captured in Slavyansk and later released was one of the Maidan snipers in Hotel Ukraine seen on the Ruptly video.

More analysis in our research wiki on Syrian and now Ukrainian massacres: Ukraine 2014: Whodunit?

Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 8 2014 23:51 utc | 61

54 JSorrentine

Anger - even if only expressed in written form - affects people a bit differently than calmness and can get a point across more effectively at times.
Ha ha, no. It gets you dismissed. People don't take you seriously, even if you are 1000 percent correct.
Rants are a tool.

Posted by: VRainov | May 8 2014 23:52 utc | 62

"It gets you dismissed."

Only bourgeois fucks "dismiss" people especially if those people are somehow 10x more correct than is humanly possible.

You've learned your lessons well, young Jedi. The force is strong in this one, Master Yoda.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 9 2014 0:07 utc | 63

Demian @ # 58,

Monetary constraints at the Pentagon? What a strange idea.

The military contractors are neither in the chain of military command - they have other masters - nor are they subject to the the Universal Code of Military Justice. Thus, they are independent from the official military command structures, and can act on the basis of rules of engagement set by their paymasters. Additionally, they operate in a grey zone regarding any enforceable constraints on their actions under international customary laws of armed conflict. Very liberating, eh?
Also, the substantially higher pay for mercenaries guarantees a ready stream of men - already trained at taxpayer expense - to maintain a ready reserve of "flexible" fighters. When you want a death squad, who ya gonna call?

Logistics contracting? Now that is where the pigs get their snouts down in the trough.

Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | May 9 2014 0:08 utc | 64

Demian@58

Costs of a government employee and a contractor are about the same for the same work. The worker gets fewer benefits since the money is diverted to the corporate executives and political contributions. It is the same for the cooks, mail clerks and supply truck drivers.

The guy who volunteers knows he is off to war and isn’t going to question the orders he gets from his superiors. Also, the smaller the army the less impact the war has on the population. Even so, a couple million Americans have cycled through Iraq and Afghanistan. There is still no real opposition to the wars since they all volunteered or were hired for it.

There is profound difference when mercenaries are hired to fight the wars. The horror in Odessa is America’s responsibility; even though no one in Washington DC may have ordered it, they support the barbarians who did it. The neo-liberal/neo-conservative Deep State can’t tell the truth anymore, they have to lie. No humane person could possibly support them.

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 9 2014 0:40 utc | 65

@JerseyJeffersonian & VietnamVet:

Just for the heck of it, I looked up the number of military personnel the US and Russia have. The US has 1,429,995 active personnel (got to man that empire of bases) and 850,880 reserves; Russia has 766,000 active personnel and 2,035,000 reserves.

Since it's silly even to even consider that, I'll link to this post by the Saker which considers the US and Russia as rival military powers.

(Not required reading for you two. :-) )

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 0:58 utc | 66

Posted by: james | May 8, 2014 2:05:04 PM | 23

"@20 - humm. that koolaid tastes good, lol.."

For somebody who constantly plays the role of Miss Manners, grammer school "hall monitor" and self appointed "teacher's pet", that isn't a very polite, nor civil thing to say to the person. If you disagree with what they wrote, at least be adult enough to say what it is you disagree with and explain why.

Otherwise, you're just trolling like any other right wing agent provocateur.

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 1:06 utc | 67

This 'long run' is not going to be for long. A real crisis will hit within a few months.

There is no going back from this, there will be no negotiations or backing off, this is war. The US/UK/EU is not going to back down (with the possible exception of a German split, about the one thing that could derail this but I give that little chance).

This is simply the logical culmination of the neo-con strategy from the 90's onwards. Iraq was designed (as they stated) to indirectly control the EU, Russia and China (by controlling the ME oil). That was a bit of a failure.

But, ever creating their 'own reality' (re Rove's statement) and never learning, they are now going for Russia and China directly and they are not going to back off. The internal logic of their ideology (and it;s barriers to objective facts) cannot let them.

Now within their ideology this is how they interpret objective data, this is what they really think:
If Russia tries diplomacy then it is weak, therefore attack it more.
If Russia uses military force, then it is a threat (but also weak), therefore attack it more.
Because Russia is weak/threat/weak... then only total surrender is possible.
Within the logic of these beliefs there can be no other interpretations.

At the same time this ideology blinds everyone to the actual facts about their own capabilities, for example (despite its failures) there is a massive overestimation of Western military and economic capabilities within the policy elites. They honestly believe that they are so strong that they can ‘win’ and, because they are so strong the other side will surrender (or they can be subverted/balkanised, etc). Anyone within the system that disagrees with that will be ignored (let alone anyone outside it).

Now I have long argued (for many years) that this ideological ‘dynamic’ of the US (and now it's UK/EU satraps) means a race between total economic collapse or nuclear war.

There can be no other outcome. It has far too much momentum now and this ideology is so strong and dominant that no one can halt it.

If anyone doubts this, just take a look at the data, for example just today. A full scale declaration of economic war (noting also the Hague stated that Russia would be taken out of the OECD the other day) there is no going back from this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/exclusive-west-draws-up-plan-to-disarm-russias-energy-supply-threat-9341096.html

“Britain is drawing up plans with the US and other European countries to “disarm” the threat of President Vladimir Putin using Russian gas and oil supplies as “a weapon” against Ukraine and its Eastern European neighbours. Britain is drawing up plans with the US and other European countries to “disarm” the threat of President Vladimir Putin using Russian gas and oil supplies as “a weapon” against Ukraine and its Eastern European neighbours.”

So Russia and China's only hope for survival (and this is a battle for survival for the world now) is to engineer a total US/EU economic collapse, with, perhaps, such a stunning military defeat, at some key point, that reality actually gets through to some US heads. And they will have to engineer it. Because inevitably there will be a military confrontation at some point and if the 'mindset' of the US/UK/EU elites is not shaken enough (by a very harsh dose of reality) it will escalate rapidly because they will miscalculate totally until the nukes fly.

And there is not much time left now. I give it months. Appropriate, 2014 a hundred years since that other great miscalculation, 1914. July is my pick (August at the latest).. also appropriate don't you think.

Posted by: oldskeptic | May 9 2014 1:07 utc | 68

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 8, 2014 7:34:05 PM | 57

"Why, it looks like the Rabbi is also helping "organize" - nudge, wink - "former" Israeli IDF soldiers in Ukraine into merry bands of pro-Ukrainian-neo-Nazi vigilantes.

Arieli said he set up the task force — which now has its own Facebook page – at the request of Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi of Ukraine, following a series of anti-Semitic attacks that occurred in Kiev and beyond in the wake of a bloody revolution that erupted in November over former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych’s alleged corruption and perceived allegiance to Russia."

Nice find. One finds Israeli fingerprints all over the place in post coup Ukraine. From the chosen oligarchs, to the usual trainers helping the fascists perfect their terrorism.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 8, 2014 7:51:21 PM | 59

"A montage published by Politikus.ru yesterday purports to show that Danish "OSCE inspector" John G.O. Christensen captured in Slavyansk and later released was one of the Maidan snipers in Hotel Ukraine seen on the Ruptly video.

More analysis in our research wiki on Syrian and now Ukrainian massacres: Ukraine 2014: Whodunit?"

There has been a lot of speculation that those snipers were foreign mercs, instead of Ukrainian fascists. Given all the CIA/Mossad/Eu spooks running around in the Ukraine, helping out those friendly bandera nazis with just about everything, it would not surprise me to find out the maidan snipers were being run directly by experienced westerners sent there specifically to organise the terror professionally. The maidan sniper team had a lot of tech support, associates coordinating protestor movement to get the right kill zones, and camera people to record it for the media (remember that Iranian woman set up by Israeli agents for random murder, and snuff filming, that was a "big hit" in the western media?). this is besides the obvious international western back-up and propaganda support, so they were obviously not rogues.

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 1:43 utc | 69

@66

The best part of the fucking insanity detailed in your link:

Under the G7 proposals, support would be given to build several new liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals across Europe, while the US would lift restrictions on the export of shale gas.

Japan is also understood to be prepared to re-start some of its nuclear plants that were mothballed in the wake of the Fukushima disaster. Japan is now one of the largest importers of LNG, which has pushed up prices to record levels.

So, the American and Japanese - as well as the rest of the world's - peons are supposed to take it in the pants once again - i.e., rivers of flammable drinking water as far as the eye can see and what 2? 3? more Fukushimas - just so the psychotic American war criminals can rule the galaxy blah blah blah blah...

And yet when our "leaders" tell us this shit in all earnestness we're NOT supposed to scream/laugh them off the stage and into a fucking funny farm?

We're supposed to debate and discuss these types of plans? Treat them like there's some there there?

Holy eff.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 9 2014 1:50 utc | 70

Holy shit! A montage published by Politikus.ru yesterday purports to show that Danish "OSCE inspector" John Christensen captured in Slavyansk and later released was one of the Maidan snipers in Hotel Ukraine seen on the Ruptly video. More analysis in our research wiki on Syrian and now Ukrainian massacres: Ukraine 2014: Whodunit? Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 8, 2014 7:51:21 PM | 59
Petri, that montage contains no pictures of snipers at Maidan, sniping. In any case, such a photo would be a fairly probable photoshop, and if it were actually the case it would be an inexcusable breach of opsec on the part of the planners of the Maidan provocations. I am surprised that you should pay attention to such an idea.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 9 2014 2:27 utc | 71

OT

Bruce Willis, looks remarkably like John McCain now.

Link">http://lifenews.ru/static/posts/2014/5/132880/97f353e86e94717b98394165ef5a6dae.jpg">Link to Willis and Emma Heming

And he is only 59? That debilitating American inbreeding, again?

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 2:41 utc | 72

I should add that the weaker the US/UK/EU get in reality, the more desperate and ideologically 'pure' they are becoming. You can see this with the UK, which is slashing it's armed forces (because it is broke) but as it does so it becomes ever more bellicose and ideologically neo-con.

This is classic 'cognitive dissonance' amplified by 'group think'.

This is one of the reasons why this is such a dangerous time right now, because their internal 'mental models' are diverging from reality at an ever greater rate.

As reality tries to 'break in' they move further and further into an emotionally comfortable fantasy world and because of that the probability of them making the final miscalculation approaches one.

Posted by: oldskeptic | May 9 2014 2:43 utc | 73

That got messed up. :)

Link to Willis and Emma Heming

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 2:44 utc | 74

Scalawag, I would be grateful if you could post a link the story of a couple of days ago about the stolen uniforms or whatever it was that alerted self-defense groups to the probability of another false flag action. I remember it, but I just can't find it. Rt.com is really a miserable entity, unable to break away from its al-Jazeera-like apeing of western newsicle standards, and it doesn't have video of the border event, though it indexes it under video, nor a link back to the earlier story, and I'm sick of it. I now have bookmarks on RIAN, UNIAN, VoR, etc, which are better and more to the point than RT.com with its infotainment formula.

By the way, isn't it interesting that RT.com's chief reporter in Ukraine should be a Zionist Jewess, Paula Slier? Isn't it rather peculiar that she can drive through Right Sector checkpoints with impunity, though they must know exactly who she is? Doesn't it suggest yet again that things are not what they seem regarding this supposed anti-Semitism of Right Sector? I think we should be absolutely clear that Right Sector is no more anti-Semitic that al-Qaeda is. We're being fooled again, but with a new wrinkle.

We are supposed to get caught up in the mock battle between neocons saying phooey, right sector do what we tell them (which is true) and the Jewish phony left saying OMG they're gonna kill all the Jews again (which is bullshit). At the same time, to take an example, the concrete facts reported about Odessa by the latest of the red-hot Jewish leftists, 'George Eliason' (whoever he really is, and I don't believe his bio) in OpEd News, are actually true. It's just the Jews in Peril angle which is false. We really need a formal model for this, because it's a structural paradigm that keeps recurring, aimed at discrediting or neutralising several threats to the dominant narrative at the same time.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 9 2014 2:45 utc | 75

At least the FAZ is decent enough to feature a story on the Victory Day celebrations which Putin will visit in the Crimea. (It observes that few Ukrainian flags will be seen, and what flags do appear, will not be seen for long.)

Meanwhile, from the Guardian: Ukraine: siege mentality pushes south-eastern region to precipice of civil war

events in Odessa, Ukrainian military operations and the designation of the separatists as "terrorists" have all brought more and more people over to the side of those fighting. On Thursday a steady stream of locals brought donations of food to the occupied town hall; an elderly lady gave what she said was her last 10 hrivnya (50p) to the cause.

Of course, the Guardian can't bring itself to admit that the Kiev government's being dominated by fascists is not just Russian propaganda, or that the massacre in Odessa ("events" in Guardian jargon) was performed by these fascists.

I guess the next two turning points will be how the independence referendum goes, and how Russia responds to it.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 2:50 utc | 76

I want to develop what I said in #73. The peculiar sort of double disinfo thing I was describing isn't aimed at us in general, I realise now. It's aimed specifically at Jews themselves, the Jewish public. What it does is divide them into two groups which can only talk past each other, because their frames of reference are slightly askew. One group, which would otherwise have been the old 'Jewish revolutionary left', is obsessing about Jews in peril, as described. The other group, the neocons and their fan boys and girls in the universities who are more interested in getting a slice of the Leo Strauss power pie than in making the world a better place, are smirking to themselves about the cleverness of using tame neofascists to achieve forcible regime changes all over the place. But what is concealed from the first group is visible to the second, and conversely. Perhaps Louis Proyekt would care to comment on this.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 9 2014 2:57 utc | 77

(#73, #75, continued): We could just regard this as a long-term disinfo structure designed back in the days of Leo Strauss himself, or made explicit to the young neocon acolytes at that time, designed to draw the entire Jewish Left off in the wrong direction, by constructing an entire false worldview for them, according to which the Marxists are the ‘real’ anti-Semites. But putting it in one sentence like that over-simplifies it slightly. Behind it is an old Jewish right-wing argument based on religion. (Strauss was, in a peculiarly cynical way, very pro-religion, simply because religion is always a rightwards force. From that point of view, Marxism actually is ‘anti-Semitic’, because it threatens the supposedly unique religious status of ‘the Jews’. This is the underlying truth, but it has to be dramatized in case after case, to make left-wing Jews frightened of non-Jewish Marxists, always terrified that these non-Jewish Marxists are ‘anti-Semitic’ in a racial sense, which is of course entirely untrue. Marxists are ‘anti-Semitic’ in the sense that they deny that Jews are any different from anyone else – not in the sense that they have a sneaky racial anti-Semitism concealed beneath their Marxism. There is a story here so complex that it would need a book-length exposé to really do justice to it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 9 2014 3:16 utc | 78

"Well,if this referendum is held,you can bet the right sector will try to impede its implementation,closing polls or violently preventing attendance."

How about destroying the ballots? I heard they set the printing house in Donetsk on fire, but there are no details here, just that over a million ballots were destroyed.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_08/Unknown-attackers-destroy-referendum-ballots-printing-equipment-in-Donetsk-3924/

Nice little referendum ya got here....be a shame if something wuzta....happen to it.

Posted by: Mark | May 9 2014 3:36 utc | 79

@Mark #77:

I'm waiting for the Kiev media to say that it was the "separatists" who destroyed the ballots, because they realized that independence from the fascist Kiev junta is deeply unpopular in Donetsk, so they didn't want to be embarrassed in front of the whole world by not having enough votes.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 4:01 utc | 80

"Britain is drawing up plans with the US and other European countries to “disarm” the threat of President Vladimir Putin using Russian gas and oil supplies as “a weapon” against Ukraine and its Eastern European neighbours."

That so? While making up this fiendish plan, best remember to count out the 7th-biggest oil exporter and supplier of a fifth of the EU's gas. Norway's oil boom has "tailed off years ahead of expectations", and had they not put by a massive rainy-day fund, they would be in a hard place now. Not dirt-farmer hard, but high wages and benefits have made Norwegians so slothful that living without those petrodollars is going to be tough.

Shell has cancelled a multi-billion dollar gas project, and StatOil is slashing spending and rethinking its advanced projects.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/08/uk-norway-economy-insight-idUKKBN0DO07520140508

I don't think Russia needs to worry overmuch. Especially if Putin lands a big gas deal with China this month, which would replace most revenue lost if the gas to Europe were shut off.

http://rt.com/op-edge/157400-russia-china-deepening-cooperation-ukraine/

Then he can tell the EU to suck it, and they can play their mad-political-scientist games all alone.

Posted by: Mark | May 9 2014 4:24 utc | 81

Demian @78

That's quite possible, because the Kiev Kabal has become spoiled from having its wildest lies received with wide-eyed acceptance by the western press, and then uncritically circulated as if they were gospel. No whopper is so big that the western media will say "I'm not printing that, it's too obviously a lie". So Kiev has gradually become accustomed to blaming Russia to the extent that I fully expect a complaint along about October that Putin has stolen the leaves from Ukraine's trees.

Posted by: Mark | May 9 2014 4:35 utc | 82

Posted by: Oui | May 8, 2014 4:53:56 PM | 41

Yes, the Bundesbank interview from their website stated they saw the gold and are relocating part of it - remolding the barrels into modern quantities on the way. The only hypothetical scenario where the gold would be needed is to buy foreign currency not being able to use Euro or buy goods not being able to use any currency.

It is a stupid discussion designed for the stupid people.


Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 5:43 utc | 83

Posted by: okie farmer | May 8, 2014 4:19:27 PM | 36

I agree with you that Snowden risks being snatched by the US on German ground. He could be legally extradited as an American citizen anyway. However you can use video link nowadays and I am pretty sure this will be done as Germany has no interest in getting into a legal row with the US. It is also possible for German parliamentarians to travel to Russia and interview him there (I suppose they would enjoy that even more).

The big thing about interviewing Snowden is that he has the facts and is prepared to talk about it - which means talking about the activities of the German secret services who are fully integrated into the eaves dropping - against German law.

Merkel does not want this discussion in Germany - as simple as that.

And yes, Germany is part of the US led NATO alliance, that does not mean, however, that they have to do as told, and that the legal framework of the US and of Germany could be overridden by deep state structures. And it does not mean US secret services can eavesdrop on the legislative that is supposed to control them.

What is does mean is that Germany is completely integrated in NATO logistics, so even if they disagree in actions at one point, the support will still be there, like in the Iraq war.

German politicians had a chance for neutrality twice - when offered by Stalin for reunification, and when Gorbachev offered it. The majority of West Germans did not want it then - it may not have been realistic in the 1950's though Austria got it, it was certainly realistic in negotiations with Gorbachev if Kohl/Germans had insisted on it. It simply was irrelevant for most people. The cold war is over and the attempts to spark a second one seem to fail.

The NSA spying is a problem US and German citizens share.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 6:13 utc | 84

Yeah, but the net effect of Snoden is to make Usaians, in particular, feel more helpless than ever before, such that if they might otherwise have been interested in mounting some sort of citizens' resistance to the fascist government, they will no longer ever dare to suggest meetings etc to their friends either by phone or by internet. As a universal psyop, it has been very effective in crushing resistance. So maybe Putin, merkel etc are perfectly aware of that and just consider it a sort of tar baby they would rather not touch, quite understandably. Looking at the abysmal Greenwald/ Omidyar business, it's hard not to conclude that the whole damn thing is fake.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 9 2014 6:22 utc | 85

@Rowan Berkeley #83:

You're missing the most obvious aspect of this farce. Putin was recruited by the CIA when he didn't join the Pioneers at the usual age, tipping off the the all-knowing American spy agency that he could easily be turned by the Land of Freedom™. Why else would Putin give Snowden asylum, unless he were a CIA mole and in on the psyop?

If anyone doubts that Putin is a CIA mole, I ask you this: why else would all Western media demonize him from the very start of his first term as president? Obviously, to make people in the Russian government and Russians in generals think that Putin is a loyal Russian, as opposed to a servile American agent. The whole ruse couldn't have worked more perfectly. And Putin—Put-in—get it?—is lauging all the way to the bank. Just like those other mercenary but loyal servants of the Empire, Snowden and Greenwald.

Posted by: Demian | May 9 2014 6:58 utc | 86

Posted by: Demian | May 9, 2014 2:58:19 AM | 84
:-))

Especially considering Snowden's phone in to Putin's open question session and Putin's answer that Russia only spies on citizens within the legal Russian framework.

Russian humour I suppose ...

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 7:37 utc | 87

somebody, exactly right:

"Merkel does not want this discussion in Germany - as simple as that."

Agree with the rest of your analysis too.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 9 2014 7:39 utc | 88

Mark (re4 #79), it doesn't matter that it is physically impossible, what matters is that they believe it and will factor it into their decision making. As I stated they are in complete cognitive dissonance, where their emotionally satisfying fantasies dominate their thinking .. any relationship to reality is optional.

This is reinforced within the system itself (the system being the whole economic, political, national security/military system), where you have a sort of 'Chinese whispers echo chamber'.

Where someone in the system states some propaganda, and even knows that it is the case. But it reverberates around within the system itself, and others ..within the system itself .. then believe it. If there are enough of them, especially at the higher levels, then this then becomes the perceived reality.

This is a self referential system and the scope for miscalculation is obvious.

Here is the scary thing, people like Kerry and Cameron actually believe a lot of the nonsense they spout. To not do so would be too emotionally challenging.

In other words, the system makes up propaganda, then believes it.

The classic example of this is the whole US shale gas nonsense. Now anyone that has even cursorily studied it knows that it is a ponzi scheme, because the depletion rates are so great that you require ever greater investment to just stay still in production terms.
But there are a huge number of people in the US Govt (and UK) that actually completely believe the hype and that it will make the US a massive gas exporter (and hence no need for Russia).

This is an emotionally satisfying belief for them, hence they take this with little skepticism. It means they do not have to make hard (and adult) decisions about diplomacy. To sit down with Putin and make a deal. They can just carry on their merry little neo-con way....

Where it gets scary is that it emboldens them to make decisions as though actually is real, such as Hague calling for Russia to be pushed out of the OECD and Cameron's nonsense. And within their own 'echo chamber' a skeptical voice saying 'there is no US gas' will get no traction, and this idea then amplifies. Carried on to its logical end and you will see the EU sanctioning gas from Russia, totally based on a fantasy that US gs will miraculously appear out of nowhere.


Make no mistake, a large number of the US/UK/EU system elites are so divorced from reality now that if they were a poor person they would be classed as clinically insane.

Posted by: oldskeptic | May 9 2014 7:44 utc | 89

@oldsceptic #66, 71

I agree with you but hope we are wrong. Here's the latest post by the Saker - if you haven't read it-
which shares some of your conclusions.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/remembering-important-lessons-of-cold.html?m=1

Posted by: bassalt | May 9 2014 7:48 utc | 90

Link to Chemical weapons used against self-defense in Mariupol - pro-federalization activists

"The leaders of the "Donetsk People's Republic" claimed that self-defense forces in Mariupol came under a chemical attack when the City Council building was being stormed by Kiev-controlled armed units. "Kiev bears the entire responsibility not only for their state agencies' actions, but also for the actions by citizens who illegally apply means of chemical warfare," the statement says.

"Armed groups controlled by Kiev used unidentified chemical weapons on May 6 while storming the City Council headquarters," the foreign ministry of the "Donetsk People's Republic" said in a statement, posted in the Donetsk "people's governor" Pavel Gubarev's Facebook account.

"The defenders of the City Council have left the contaminated area. Many of them had their breathing systems damaged, which is likely to have consequences and probably be a danger to their lives," the statement says.

The statement urges the world community to condemn the use of a toxic choking gas in Mariupol and to take comprehensive measures to subject the Kiev authorities to international isolation."

The authors also urged Russia to influence the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons into organizing a full-scale probe in Mariupol into the use of chemical weapons by the Kiev authorities."

The Ukrainian leadership has not commented on the information, Interfax reports."

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 8:07 utc | 91

The only purpose of owning physical gold in your own vault is to hedge against a complete loss of confidence in the fiat money system. Fiat money is printable and thus cheap to produce. While gold exists in limited inventories. Gullible people and dishonest bankers like to push the fiat money system foundation. They dislike any questions about who owns and who can prove they own their gold reserves. They take it as a personal affront because it automatically questions their integrity and most importantly their IQ.

It is disingenuous to expect LNG shipments from Qatar or from American fracking operations to replace pipeline Natural gas supply. This is because the compression for liquefaction stations consumes parasitic energy equivalent to 10-30% of the energy content in the natural gas. The percentage varies depending on size and efficiency of the compression system. Thus, the natural gas delivered by refrigerated marine vessels can not compete in value with pipeline delivered Natural Gas. Furthermore, brand new refrigerated tank farms near the Port terminals and in close proximity to the pipeline distribution network will have to be designed, specified, tendered, built, commissioned and eventually amortized for these conceptual ideas to have any practical value.


Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 9 2014 8:08 utc | 92

@66 oldskeptic,

i lean towards agreeing with you.. stick around as you have an interesting perspective. to quote you "Now I have long argued (for many years) that this ideological ‘dynamic’ of the US (and now it's UK/EU satraps) means a race between total economic collapse or nuclear war."

i have always maintained war=money. no war, no money... but it is really a phony type of money, or funny money not backed up by anything other then people's confidence in it. the monetary system is corrupt and bound to fall at some point.. the us/uk are leading the charge under the fed reserve/boe.. they have made the eu into much the same.. economic collapse is most likely, but it will be scary to watch just how it unfolds.. a financial purge is long overdue. 2008 was a small blip on the radar.

Posted by: james | May 9 2014 8:18 utc | 93

Bassalt, read it. And here is the thing. The current US/UK/EU elites have learned ...nothing .... from the Cold War ... except that they won it by 'resolute action', 'facing down the USSR' at every point ... and a massive military build up.

They forget things like 1983 where one man was between us and our atoms bouncing around the stratosphere.

What has changed in the rise and ideological domination by the neo-cons. In the Regan Govt, they were called the 'crazies' and no one listened to them (and even then all those 'realists' back then nearly got us all killed).

These people are now the foreign policy elite in the US and UK. There are no countervailing voices, no other centres of power... they ARE the centre.

There have been 3 occasions where they nearly ended it all.

(1)2007 when the US was about to attack Iran, except the linked Israeli attack in 2006 against Lebanon totally failed and the US military elite rebelled.
(2) Georgia in 2008, when Chaney (the real US president) wanted to back it with US troops, yes US against Russia. The fact that it was a US controlled state and the attack (the Russian call it 08/08/08) was when Putin was at the Chinese Olympics (see the parallels anyone to the Ukraine?)seems to have escaped everyone. Personally I think Bush the Elder rang his son and gave him his orders ... and for once Bush, the Child, overruled Chaney

(3) Syria, when the US Navy was faced by superior force from the Russian Navy off the coast. This was a classic cold war face off and the US blinked.

What, do you all think the US backed down on attacking Syria at the very, very last minute (2 days roughly) just because some truth over a false flag operation came to light ... are you all stupid?
That was the excuse.... the reality the USN was about to go into a shooting war and a lot of their shiny ships were about to become scuba dive sites. And the US army, which knows how weak it is (barely able to put a couple of combat brigades together) did not want to have to go in (which they knew would happen) and face the Syrian Army and worse (shudder) Hezbollah. And, this is rare thing, even the USAF was reluctant because it is also so ran down now that it is afraid of taking the losses which would have happened.

So there was, in a similar way to 2007, a real reluctance, bordering on a rebellion from them. I suspect, reading Hersh's article, a lot of 'behind the scenes' effort by the US military to kill the 'Syrians did it' story.

Now the Ukraine. It is ZERO coincidence that they pressed the button on it at that particular time, though they had been building towards it for years:
(a) After the humiliation over Syria...killing the Russian ability to interfere in the Med is a #1 neo-con priority.
(b) The Govt has accepted a better economic offer from Russia in their 'bidding war;' with the EU.
(c) Putin was at the winter Olympics (once is an accident and all that).

Posted by: oldskeptic | May 9 2014 8:25 utc | 94

90/91

Yep. People should read up on Bretton-Woods and its changes.

On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold. This brought the Bretton Woods system to an end and saw the dollar become fiat currency.[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became a reserve currency used by many states. At the same time, many fixed currencies (such as GBP, for example), also became free-floating.

So no, your respective currency is backed by Dollar notes not by gold.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 8:27 utc | 95

@93 - yes.. regarding the link @66 from oldskeptic.. the west under us/uk/eu want to prevent russia from using energy as a weapon against ukraine.. the us has been using it's leverage with printing money in the very same manner, only much worse.. and to top it off, they want to enforce sanctions too - it is all about using financial weapons that they have control over.. the double standards are fascinating.

Posted by: james | May 9 2014 8:33 utc | 96

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 8, 2014 10:45:13 PM | 73

"Scalawag, I would be grateful if you could post a link the story of a couple of days ago about the stolen uniforms or whatever it was that alerted self-defense groups to the probability of another false flag action."

Here:

Link to В Донецк привезли российскую военную форму для провокаций

Translation by Yandex

In Donetsk brought Russian uniforms for provocations

Source RIA in power Agency reported that ammunition and identity are planning to use in the simulation of attacks on the Ukrainian border guards.

According to an anonymous interlocutor of Agency, the Russian form and forged documents were taken from Khmelnitsky.

- The SBU sent from Kyiv to Donetsk about twenty people from the bodyguard of the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk region Kolomoisky. In Donetsk, the group met representatives of the "Right sector". The group was accompanied by the cargo, which consists of around 200 sets of military equipment of the Russian military, and about 70 of the forms of identity cards of officers of the Armed forces of Russia, - said the source of RIA.

According to the source, form and documents required for use in the simulation of attacks on the Ukrainian border guards:

- The task to carry out an attack on the Ukrainian border guards in uniform Russian sample and record what is happening on the camera, " he said.

Poor translation. A source in the junta told RIA about a plan to use 20 body guards of Kolomoisky and an unspecified number of pravi sektor to stage an attack of an Ukrainian border post and blame the Russian military. They were to dress in Russian army uniforms, use Russian army issue weapons and have fake Russian military documents.

Posted by: scalawag | May 9 2014 8:35 utc | 97

Posted by: james | May 9, 2014 4:18:50 AM | 91

Actually I think because economies have become so interdependent, and the small arms advantage to big weapons systems proven in Iraq and Afghanistan, a big war is unlikely, as even the most stupid leader (and I agree with the echo chamber stuff, oldsceptic) must realize it will be lose lose for his constituency very fast. And scaremongering for the costs of preparing for one would be stopped fast by any voter.

Like considering this US air sea battle with China

What remains to be seen is if the military starts tossing money towards Air-Sea Battle, or if everyone will end up stepping back, taking a deep breath, and ask why China would attack the U.S. unprovoked when it holds $1.6 trillion of our debt and whose economy is intrinsically linked with ours.

Or Europe considering the economic costs of a new cold war.

Its time to restrict the toys for the guys. And time for real people to know how defend against a proxy civil war - as this obviously is the new type of warfare.

Posted by: somebody | May 9 2014 8:41 utc | 98

You should read what country owns what, at least in paper, and more importantly check out the countries that are aggressively hoarding gold. The list starts with the BRICS but includes many others.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/world/gold/gold.html

Posted by: Sun Tzu | May 9 2014 8:55 utc | 99

Petri Kohn

Re: "osce" guy was a sniper!
Wow thats definately him! Atleast hes face is identical seen from the side.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 9 2014 9:07 utc | 100

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