Ukraine: IMF - Lose The East And Get More Money
One wonders which U.S. politician or functionary visited Ukraine yesterday. After CIA Director Brennan had visited Kiev the coup government of Ukraine launched an "anti-terror" campaign against federalists in the east. That soon pattered out. Then Vice President Biden visited Kiev and the next day another "anti-terror" campaign was launched but stopped after Russia mobilized some troops and threatened to invade. This morning a third "anti-terror" campaign was launched when some Ukrainian security forces encircled and attempted to storm the city of Slovyansk. Who initiated this?
This attempt soon ran into problems. Civilians blocked or held up (vid) troop movements. But supported by helicopters some troops managed to capture a few outlying road barricades. Then at least two of the helicopters were shot down by MANPADs. It was not expected that the armed federalists had such weapons ready but it is also not very astonishing. When the Soviet Union was dissolved Ukraine ended up with a fully equipped force of some 700,000 men. Today, 23 years later, the Ukrainian military force has some 70,000 men. What happened to all the equipment? Most of it was sold off to third countries in shady deals but a lot was just taken away or sold by corrupt officers to anyone who would pay a decent price. I would therefore not be surprised to see more higher level weapons in the hands of the federalists who include some veterans of the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan and other well trained former soldiers and police forces.
The attack on Slovyansk stopped at the city gates with the city itself still in the hands of the federalists. For now the situation there seems to be quiet. Meanwhile there were clashes in Odessa between pro-Kiev and anti-Kiev rioters.
The IMF, which has approved a huge $17 billion loan to Ukraine, gave an ominous warning. Consider yourself to be one of those ruling Ukrainian oligarchs who hope to pocket significant parts of these loans. What would you think after reading this:
Ukraine is at risk of a prolonged recession and may need an extension of its $17bn bailout should tensions with Russia and unrest in the east of the country escalate, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
...
"A long-lasting disruption of relations with Russia that depresses exports, investment and growth, or a loss of economic control over the east that reduces budget revenue, would require a significant recalibration of the programme and additional financing, including from Ukraine's bilateral partners," it says.
Translation: "Dear oligarchs, screw up the relations with Russia and lose the east and you will get more free money." Such IMF talk is not designed to help with any de-escalation.
I do not expect the coup-government's move on Slovyansk to result in any success. The only gain from it will be more support for the federalists and greater alienation in the east. Anecdotal reports from journalists crossing government checkpoints pointed out that the interior ministry troops used in this government operation were pretty pissed about the orders had received from Kiev. They wonder how fighting against a significant part of the population is supposed to help the country. Then again - they likely did not get the above IMF notice.
Adding: Obama mentor and Russophob Zbigniew Brzezinski seems to push for escalation of the situation as he envisions U.S. weaponized "urban resistance" in Ukraine against an (unlikely) Russian invasion. His rant includes this most hypocritical beauty:
Above all the president must clarify why we cannot tolerate an international system in which countries are invaded by thugs and destabilized from abroad.
Ahem.
Also of note: Both, the Washington Post and the BBC have started to use the term "rebels" to describe the federalists.
Posted by b on May 2, 2014 at 15:12 UTC | Permalink
« previous page | next page »"The US wants war":
http://usawatchdog.com/united-states-definitely-wants-war-in-ukraine-paul-craig-roberts/
Posted by: Willy2 | May 3 2014 11:24 utc | 202
scalwag in #177 has pasted in a PRO-MAIDAN youtube description which twice states that "pro-Russians" used live fire. It goes out of its way to make this allegation, first this:
Recall now in Odessa at the procession of football fans and supporters for Evromaydana united Ukraine was attacked a few hundred people with St. George ribbons armed with bats, shields and guns. As a result of the gunshot wound killed a young man.
and then, worse:
Medics at the scene said the pro-Russia fighters were also shooting from the roof. At least five bodies with bullet wounds lay on the ground covered by Ukraine flags as fire engines and ambulances arrived at the scene.
This is obviously a version with a purpose. I shall be very watchful regarding these allegations.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 3 2014 11:27 utc | 203
the killer of 38 people in Odessa
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152415722753659&set=a.62154938658.89554.691108658&type=1&theater
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 11:37 utc | 204
I want to see this happen
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1613815_10152276940673659_1801135311_n.jpg
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 12:11 utc | 205
Danish and other Scandinavian mercenaries/special-ops/commandos bear a huge responsibility for overthrowing Ghaddafi and deaths of thousands murdered Libyans. Denmark is completely different country because of this murderous fucktard Rassmussen who has some very dark history behind him. NATOzification of Europe has accelerated since the GLADIO times due to the false flag genocidal operations like assasination of Olof Palme (and other offcials opposing the ZioAngloUS hegemony), Madrid 2005, London 2007, Breivik (murdered youth were anti-Israeli and pro-Palestine activists, see the photos from the day beforethe massacre), killing in the Jewish school in touluse falsely attributed to Mehra, "knife attack" in Woolwhich. It's called "strategy of tension" to terrorize the European population into submission. Apparently bears fruits.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 3 2014 12:18 utc | 206
@brian "Cuban crisis" staerted with USA deploying the Jupiter nuclear missiles in Turkey.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 3 2014 12:30 utc | 207
ProPeace
Denmark, Sweden, Poland seems to be the most crazy regimes on Ukraine/Russia in north europe/scandinavia. Completly insane.
Remember all these regimes would lick the arse of obama anyday.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 12:33 utc | 208
I don't know if anybody's posted this yet: Pro Ukraine goons surronding the Hose of the Syndicates in Odessa, throwing molotov cocktails and firing arms. 36 people dead inside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IVXm9nnY-AQ
Posted by: -yan | May 3 2014 13:35 utc | 209
Guys,calling Chomsky names here is being silly. I think what he tried to point out (and I believe he has been able to do that to a good affect)..is that for US 'red lines' extends all over the world, while for Russia, its red lines lie in its immediate vicinity and US has a problem with that too. Basically he was highlighting West's hypocrisy.
And he's even mentioned that Russia has far better grounds for justification for the action it took in Crimea.
Posted by: Grivko | May 3 2014 13:52 utc | 210
Just for the record, and particularly for those of you who are interested in Jewish/Zionist issues, I want to introduce you to Jeffrey Blankfort, an old Marxist from California, distinguished for being one of the two individuals who successfully sued the ADL for paying ex-cop Ray Bullock to spy on him, with the assistance of the then apartheid-era south African secret service, BOSS, which is a whole story in itself. Blankfort tore Chomsky to shreds in a lengthy and exhaustive analysis a long time ago, and here it is:
http://www.leftcurve.org/LC29WebPages/Chomsky.html
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 3 2014 14:17 utc | 211
Fuck Noam Chomsky the gate-keeping fucking weasel.
Awwwh, but he's done such good work over years! Well, Obama was a fucking community organizer should we still give him the same benefit of the doubt, too?
Let's review Chomsky's recent "errors" - I won't even touch upon his blatant whoring for the official 9/11 fairy tale - but in the last year Chomsky has now said:
1) Syria was a civil war and that the country was committing "suicide"
2) the apartheid genocidal state of Israel was not involved whatsoever in Syria etc and was just sitting on the sidelines as there was just NO way they could countenance a jihadist Syrian government
3) the annexation of Crimea was illegal
Umm, and yet the fake leftists here would have us brush all of this aside - 3 completely nonsensical statements that defy reality and are easily proven with - I don't know, what? - about 5 minutes of web-surfing or one minute at MOA - and still revere this doddering old gatekeeping fuck just because he's done so much for us. Holy fucking nonsense.
And then the fake left in the US and the West wanders in circles pounding their puds lamenting and wondering WHY OH WHY the are so ineffective, why they just can't seem to get any momentum, why intelligent people don't fucking take them seriously anymore.
Hint: it's because they continue to coddle people who are OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY working for the very Establishment the fake left claims said vanguards like Chomsky are working against. Gee, love really does die hard.
Two further things:
1) In each of Chomsky's "errors" we are talking about war crimes and the needless murder and mayhem they entail. These situations are not some fine academic points divorced from reality and which merit the polite "difference of opinion" amelioration the fake left consistently falls for and promotes concerning nearly every world crisis. Yes, yes, every situation (read: war crime commission) is just too complex for the peons to understand and we should have old Noam lead us all in a nuanced conversation/debate (looking at you Edward Snowden/Hillary Clinton/Glenn Greenwald) about the finer points of what's going on. Thanks guys for clearing everything up for us. You're swell.
2) We are talking about topics that are supposedly in NC's wheelhouse so the fact that he is SO WRONG should be an even LARGER clue for the fake left fanboys. So, he spent his ENTIRE CAREER documenting the nefarious actions of the American deep-state etc but lately as the American war on aggression - i.e., the GWOT - is kicking into its next more dangerous phases - i.e., where we start directly confronting Russia - NC somehow just jettisons all of this learning/erudition blah blah blah and starts writing complete fucking nonsense which his fanboys tell us should just be ignored. That's great. I mean, when I ask my Uncle Bob - an auto mechanic - about Ukraine and Syria and he tells me exactly the same nonsense the MSM is pushing I figure, oh well, what should I expect.
But when we ask NC - Mr. "Anti-Establishment" (read: professor emeritus and one of the most prestigious universities in the US) himself - about Syria and Ukraine and he tells us basically the same thing that Uncle Bob the mechanic tells us, why, I guess we shouldn't think that weird.
Fuck him. If NC doesn't want to help people being murdered/raped/maimed and stolen from anymore - FOR WHATEVER REASON - then fuck him.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 3 2014 14:27 utc | 212
Catherina @Catherina_News 23m
RT @itass_en: #Odessa residents block regional police building, demand punishment for deaths
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730337
Steiner @Steiner1776 22m
@codycoyote37 They are most likely members of national guard which is composed of Pravy Sector so yes nazis.
Retweeted by Steiner
Petr Shelomovskiy @stopnarcotics 25m
The crowd agrees that police is more like Right Sector rather than real police.
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 14:32 utc | 213
Adding:
this should read "the American war OF aggression - i.e., the GWOT, etc."
The US is already so successfully fighting terror, one can only imagine the wonderful results if they took the fight to aggression as well.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 3 2014 14:34 utc | 214
yes indeed: RT reporter is praised....Ukraine is proving the making of Russia Today!
judith @moriarty107 4h
@PaulaSlier_RT You are doing a brilliant job, journalism with integrity. But,please stay safe.
PaulaSlier_RT
@PaulaSlier_RT
@moriarty107 thank you - appreciate the message!
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 14:40 utc | 215
Stop hating on chomsky, he have done more than anyone of you critics will ever do in life.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 14:41 utc | 216
Stop hating on chomsky, he have done more than anyone of you critics will ever do in life.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3, 2014 10:41:45 AM | 209
sycophantic little weasel - water off a duck's back, eh.
I drop by here on occasion for the opinions of a few commentators. JSorrentine rarely disappoints. Not the usual dilettante.
Posted by: DM | May 3 2014 15:07 utc | 217
"“From now on, Russia has factually lost its influence on these people, because it will be impossible to persuade them to lay down arms against the background of a direct threat to their life,” he said, stressing that under such circumstances no country is able to do this."
Notable development in rhetoric..
Posted by: Tea | May 3 2014 15:10 utc | 218
At this moment, NATO is conducting in Ukraine an anti-Russian war by proxies: Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine:
300 Citizens of Poland and the Baltic states get Ukrainian passport to participate in the fight against militias, and these citizens are already on the spot in Ukraine as commanders and advisers.
Citizens of Poland and the Baltic countries receive Ukrainian passport to participate in the fight against militias in the south- east of Ukraine as warlords. This was reported by a source in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.
" Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and head of the SBU Valentin Nalyvaychenko , each in his line on April 29, sent instructions to the State Migration Service urgently produce passports of citizens of Ukraine for three hundred citizens of Poland and the Baltic countries ," - said the source RIA Novosti news agency .
According to him, "the citizens of these countries are already implementing a function of field commanders and advisers paramilitary units in the south -east of Ukraine to fight the militias ."
Original article : http://russian.rt.com/article/30439 # ixzz30eoNtwpY
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 15:10 utc | 219
I don't see how JSorrentines excessive amounts of vitriol are necessary. Im not a big fan of Chomsky but all this name calling seems immature.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 3 2014 15:16 utc | 220
Considering US and NATO. support for Al Queda type terrorists in Syria who have massacred tens of thousands, no one should be surprised by their support for right wing radicals in Ukraine. Just as in Syria bloodshed in Ukraine is likely to get MUCH worse if these policies persist.
Posted by: Andoheb | May 3 2014 15:35 utc | 221
Howard Amos @howardamos 7h
A few angry people are now attacking television crews. Journalists retreating.
-------------
the locals recognise cause and effect
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 15:47 utc | 222
McCarthy was a fool chasing an existing international conspiracy that he did not understand. The global evil cabal was playing both sides during the Cold War, the people he was after were not "communist" per se, but supported the Soviet Union as another social experiment designed by their masters (Nazi Germany was yet another one, Mao's China too, same Pol Pot, ...) to see which totalitarian regime sutis best their plans for world domination (making trillions in the process of conducting these ongoing social engineering experiments). Later their destroyed Soviet Union, and after its fall set their plan of one world government dominated by NATO, with the modified US model as their pick for the global control system for next few decaeds, i.e. US middle class destroyed and the police state fully implemented, that we can call "fascism with a human face" with citizens mind-fucked to be happy consumer-slaves not caring much about others. The 9.11.2001 coup de etat in the US was an important step in that plan, when they took over the power and have never released it, as we can clearly see now in Ukraine, where they blatantly undermine Obama's administration struggle to cooperate with Russia.
I would not call CIA members "celebrities"... Wisner, Frank | Operation Gladio
The FBI Director, J. Edgar Hoover, became jealous of the CIA's growing power. He described the OPC as "Wisner's gang of weirdos" and began carrying out investigations into their past. It did not take him long to discover that some of them had been active in left-wing politics in the 1930s. This information was passed to Senator Joseph McCarthy who started making attacks on members of the OPC. Hoover also gave McCarthy details of an affair that Wisner had with Princess Caradja in Romania during the war; Hoover claimed that Caradja was a Soviet agent.
Hoover and Senator McCarthy succeeded in forcing CIA director Allen W. Dulles to dismiss one of his key staff members, Carmel Offie in 1953 over Wisner's objections.
Joseph McCarthy also began accusing other senior members of the CIA as being security risks. McCarthy claimed that the CIA was a "sinkhole of communists" and claimed he intended to root out a hundred of them. One of his first targets was Cord Meyer, who was still working for Operation Mockingbird. In August, 1953, Richard Helms, Wisner's deputy at the OPC, told Meyer that Joseph McCarthy had accused him of being a communist. The Federal Bureau of Investigation added to the smear by announcing it was unwilling to give Meyer "security clearance". However, the FBI refused to explain what evidence they had against Meyer. Allen W. Dulles and both came to his defence and refused to permit a FBI interrogation of Meyer.Joseph McCarthy did not realise what he was taking on. Wisner unleashed Mockingbird on McCarthy. Drew Pearson, Joe Alsop, Jack Anderson, Walter Lippmann and Ed Murrow all went into attack mode and McCarthy was permanently damaged by the press coverage orchestrated by Wisner.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 3 2014 15:48 utc | 223
Howard Amos @howardamos 11h
Eyewitness account from pro-Russian inside trade union building yesterday (Rus): http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/sofa_/1312398-echo/ …
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 15:52 utc | 224
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 3, 2014 10:27:12 AM | 205
Despite being in complete 100% agreement, sometimes I wish you wouldn't do things like that
It always leads to yet another boring, uber-verbose pseudo-intellectual "rebuttal" by this site's premier completely ineffectual pseudo-intellectual utterly gullible lefty schmuck, Canada's leading dissident, Professor Bevin himself, ensconced in his imaginary pseudo-intellectual Ivory Tower
I'm sure that, whatever our sins are, none of us deserves being forced to yet again endure yet another bout of such ivory-tower ordurous vomit, tbh
Posted by: lol | May 3 2014 16:10 utc | 225
and of course it's always the usual gang of fake-lefty suspects that end up loudly supporting these obvious fake-left CIA stooges - the bevins & the gimp77s of this world are either the most gullible individuals on the planet or else the most dishonest.
Their persistent endless shilling for obvious fake-left CIA stooges such as Greenwald, Juan Cole, Sy Hersh, and now of course old Chompsky himself, the most fake of fake-left, is just tiresome at this stage.
Posted by: lol | May 3 2014 16:16 utc | 226
Gee, why do I hate on poor old Noam and the other "lions" that the pseudo-left that they keep coddling no matter how absurd, establishment or nonsensical their statements may be?
Hmmm, if only we could have some sort of example or precedent on the RIGHT that would better illuminate the situation. Y'know, an instance or two where the Right in the US/West continued to coddle fucking Establishment right-wing gatekeepers/"serious thinkers" even while they espoused the most murderous and inane bullshit.
Yup, too bad we just have NOOOO record of the Right continuing to pay attention and listen to folks and in doing so allowed their inaccurate and failed notions to carry on WAAAYYYY past their shelf-life.
Yup, thankfully, there are just no examples to show us how fucking disastrous NOT calling out bullshit wherever it may be appear can be.
Not to put too fine a point on it, fake lefties, but remember when after the fallout of the Iraq War and such when the Right purged its ranks of all of those people who dreamed up all those murderously shitty ideas? When those self-same serious folk would no longer be invited onto the TV shows and given column space to continue to spout their nonsense? Yeah, that was awesome, huh? It sure saved mankind A LOT of needless death and destruction, huh?
Oh well.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 3 2014 16:21 utc | 227
Friday in Toronto - Shill vs Shill -
- Cartoon Friday: Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf, in honor of the #munkdebate
Twitter suggests there's a debate being broadcast between a major asshole, a major grifter, and a major war criminal. Meh.—
(@BLCKDGRD) May 03, 2014
So as I post, this debate in Toronto is already fifty minutes underwazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Of course, I’m skipping it – I made plans already to more enjoyably shoot carpet staples into my gums –but this hashtag, #munkdebate, at least offers a helpful guide to assholes on Twitter, and yeah, I mean on both sides. Do the rubes ever get tired of earnestly following this nonsense? I realize that life affords upper middle class white people ever fewer opportunities to get deep up inside their colons, but can they just, like, do more yoga or something? Must they be so publicly credulous and dull?
Shills debating in Toronto? - best place for em, imo
Posted by: lol | May 3 2014 16:44 utc | 228
Another take over by the protesters see here LIVE.
http://rt.com/on-air/donetsk-protesters-security-hq/
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 17:08 utc | 229
Believe it or not, I bummed my way across the former Soviet Union in 1967 by train and crashed on railway stations from Leningrad to Kiev and ended up in Odessa before catching a ship to Istambul. Whilst sketching on the Potemkin Steps (I was at art school then and my sketchbook went everywhere with me), I got slapped on the wrist by an irate woman for being left-handed.
What I do remember of my time there was that Odessa was a very beautiful city, tree-lined streets and the inevitable parks (it was summer) and plenty of pink champagne. We stayed in a hotel straight out of Chekhov called the Krasnya, where we had our own, personal babushka who tested my bathwater with her elbow.
That the city should now be the scene of an atrocity and one directly engineered by the West, fills we with sadness and anger and shame frankly, that 'my' leaders are nothing more barbarian sociopaths.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 3 2014 17:50 utc | 230
http://rt.com/on-air/donetsk-protesters-security-hq/
This doesn't work anymore
Posted by: William Bowles | May 3 2014 18:05 utc | 231
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/ukraine-sitrep-update-may-3nd-1445.html Ukraine SITREP update - May 3nd, 16:20 UTC/Zulu: "the mysterious Russian soul?"
"What happened in Odessa yesterday is much worse than what the initial reports had indicated: it was truly a deliberate and blood-curling massacre. To summarize:
In Odessa the pro-Russian demonstrators had never seized a building, all they did was erecting a small tent city and hanging out there. Hardly any violence had taken place. Yesterday, the neo-Nazis finally made their move:
1) They bussed in large numbers of Right Sector thugs.
2) They then got the local football hooligans (paid by oligarchs according to some reports) to begin a nationalist demonstration.
3) The Right Sector thugs then joined the hooligans and together they viciously attacked the pro-Russian tent city: the tents were torn down and the anti-regime demonstrators viciously beat up to a pulp. The local cops stood by and watched.
4) The anti-regime demonstrators ran literally for their lives towards the building of Unions which had been their normal rallying point at which point they were surrounded and the building set ablaze.
5) Those attempting to leave the building were severely beat up and many murdered. Many were shot while standing in the windows to flee from the flames.
6) The neo-Nazis did not let the firefighters through.
7) With each jumping demonstrator or each person shot in the windows the crowd would scream "Glory to the Ukraine! Glory to he heroes!" Many took souvenir videos. For them, this was a joyful, liberating event.
8) The Ukrainian social networks flooded with joyful messages congratulation the "heroes" in Odessa and promising more of the same to the accursed Moskals.
9) The Western and Ukie press reported the events as a "clash" with "casualties" but with no reference to any one party causing this massacre.
10) The last fatalities figure was at 46. But with many dying from smoke inhalation and, especially, burns, it will probably go up."
Posted by: scalawag | May 3 2014 18:05 utc | 232
@230- william bowles. thanks for the note. that is indeed sad. your link at 231 no longer works.
Posted by: james | May 3 2014 18:29 utc | 233
@brian & scalawag:
Will you PLEASE include links properly?
The way to do it is explained above the area where you write a comment, underneath "Allowed HTML Tags". See the line that starts with a left angle bracket and then "A HREF"
The bandera nazi attack on Slavyansk has started.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_03/Shots-heard-near-Ukraines-Slavyansk-residents-prepare-for-storming-7251/ Shooting heard near Ukraine's Slavyansk, residents prepare for storming
"The relative calm in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk has been broken by shots on the outskirts of the city, and residents are preparing for the storming by the Ukrainian army, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported on Saturday.
Federalization supporters, who are on duty on the roadblocks around Slavyansk, say they are waiting for the storming in the coming hours.
The attack is widely expected following the departure of the OSCE inspectors, who were freed by federalists earlier in the day. Saturday was rather calm in Slavyansk which seemed to return to peaceful life. Some shops opened in the city and people started queuing to stock up with food in preparation for the storming."
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_05_03/Ukraines-battlefield-Slavyansk-Kramatorsk-Odessa-attacked-by-Kievs-forces-LIVE-UPDATES-5943/ Kiev intensifies military op in Eastern Ukraine LIVE UPDATES
See also this site for updates on the situation:
http://www.km.ru/world/2014/05/02/protivostoyanie-na-ukraine-2013-14/738931-spetsoperatsiya-v-slavyanske-khronika Спецоперация на востоке Украины: хроника
"Special operation in eastern Ukraine: Chronicle"
Posted by: scalawag | May 3 2014 18:34 utc | 235
Why did they release the "OSCE" team?! Makes no sense!
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 18:41 utc | 236
This here is an interesting account of what happened in Odessa.
Yes, I know what radio Free Europe is. The account is still interesting
- for the description of the role of social media - obviously it is a very easy tool to create rumors and get two sides to attack each other (not that a football crowd has a problem there)
- it seems likely that some interested party has again been shooting at both sides
- the attack of the "pro Russia" tent camp was orchestrated as revenge
Now who is it who is working hard for civil war in Ukraine - to actually happen?
Posted by: somebody | May 3 2014 18:59 utc | 237
Stating the obvious - something Western Main Stream Media seems to be unable to
Throughout these events, the average consumer of Atlanticist media could have been forgiven for demonstrating complete ignorance of a number of critical facts. These would include the fact that the putsch regime had come to power on the coat tails of a far-right mob and the fact that the regime had placed the former leader of a gang of neo-nazi football hooligans in charge of National Security. But perhaps even more importantly, the average viewer of CNN or the BBC would have been largely ignorant of the fact that there were many millions of Ukrainians who not only played no part in this process, but who in fact had every reason to be strongly opposed to what had happened in what was, at least at that point, still their country too.This ignorance was understandable, because all the Atlanticist media had really proffered was a montage of events designed to conform to the typical Atlanticist narrative structure deployed in situations where regime change is in Atlanticist interests. The storyline in these situations is a simple form of civilizational chauvinism - the victory of 'western civilisation', as represented by the USA, EU and NATO, is morally and historically ineluctable. All those who resist are morally bankrupt and will lose. This is what has happened in the Ukraine, and what is inevitable and right must therefore be for the good.
...Does Kerry realise that whereas possibly 100,000 Ukrainians fought with the Germans in WW2, around 2 million fought with the Soviet Union and that, in the Donbas, this is part of a shared historical tradition, ingrained for generations and strongly associated with the pan-Russian identity, that makes the presence of fascists in the Ukrainian putsch regime highly inflammatory. It seems that the one thing that the Atlanticist bloc cannot face up to is that if you were to ask the rebels and their supporters what it is they are fighting against, they would tell you they are fighting against fascism.
And in the Ukraine the US government and the EU are on the same side as the fascists.
Posted by: somebody | May 3 2014 19:19 utc | 238
Yes, Chomsky is a gatekeeper. Granted, a gatekeeper of the far left to keep that portion of the herd grazing on that side of the hill, but still a gatekeeper. Peter Dale Scott very politely (too politely for my tastes) takes apart Chomsky's position on JFK's murder.
Pundits positions on the JFK assassination is the touchstone I look for to separate the wheat from the chaff (although the next task is separating fake conspiracy theorists from actual researchers). The murder of JFK was a CIA coup to take full control of US foreign policy. It worked. Even if you want to deny differences in Kennedy's foreign policy or want to point out his early political career, it's irrelevant. He was murdered to take control of the US, and that's what happened. You can argue that it wouldn't have been better if JFK had not been killed, but it couldn't have been much worse.
Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 3 2014 19:22 utc | 239
@Bob in Portland #239:
I think JFK and the Unspeakable makes a very convincing case, and the position you express should be the consensus among people who make a certain amount of effort to inform themselves.
I read somewhere that the term "conspiracy theory" was coined by the CIA in an effort to dampen public skepticism of the Warren Commission report. I don't know if that's true or not. In the case of the JFK assassination, the position that the CIA was behind it is not just a theory anymore, as far as I'm concerned. As for the next most significant conspiracy theory, those concerning 9/11, I believe there is less clarity.
New attacks by the military
http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/
this cant be done by ukraianins themselves, nato lead these troops.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 20:14 utc | 241
Does kiev want war with Russia, it seems so more and more.
Need some new leaked recordings now.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 20:19 utc | 242
@Anonymous #242:
Jason Ditz at Antiwar.com was saying weeks ago already that Kiev wants war with Russia. Kiev/USG knows that Ukrainians in the southeast will never accept living under fascists. Thus, if it can get Russia to invade, it will be able to blame Russia for the breakup of the Ukraine. Without a Russian invasion, the blame for the breakup of the Ukraine will fall on Kiev.
Demian
True, ukraine will be a mess if the military keeps on, so Russia wont need to intervene and still win. However alot of civilians might get killed, maybe a civil war, I dont know right now.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 20:48 utc | 244
@244 - anoynmous - same deal in syria and libya, and iraq and. etc. etc. etc.. those in position of powers doesn't seem to give a shite about any of it.. makes some of us think so much of everything is driven by money and exploitation.
Posted by: james | May 3 2014 21:11 utc | 245
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3, 2014 2:41:24 PM | 236
"Why did they release the "OSCE" team?! Makes no sense!"
Good question. The Russians pushed hard to get their release. I'm guessing the west was going to "sacrifice" the spies and blame the federalist side/Russians for it, and the Russians found or figured that out. The death of the spies could have been used for a major propaganda coup to justify increased barbarity by the bandera nazis. Releasing the spies pre-empted such a nazi/western strategy, much like Syria disposing of its CW deprived the west of many planned pretexts to attack that country like they did Libya. One needs to remember, that in the west now, with total lockdown on the media, they can pretty much do anything they want, then have their sychophantic media spin it 180 degrees, and only a minority of westerners will know what's going on.
Posted by: Demian | May 3, 2014 2:33:05 PM | 234
OK, I'll give it a try.
Link to Western spin doctors work for Kiev to spread false information about Ukraine's events
"A credible source in Russia’s government agencies has drawn attention to the recent change in the form and tonality of the Kiev authorities’ actions in the information sphere.
"It is formed not at all by Ukrainian citizens, but by specialists who arrived from abroad. The PR group for the so-called "anti-Russian actions" involves American experts - as far as we know, shoulder straps show through the suits and sweaters of some of them. There are also European spin doctors, in particular, from Belgium who back during the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia had tried to persuade the world of "the Russian aggression" and even achieved some success for a time," the source says, TASS reports.
"Some of these specialists that are currently working in Kiev under the umbrella of the SBU (Security Council of Ukraine) are well known to us. We also know that one of their tasks is to send disinformation to a large number of mass media outlets in the United States and Europe," he noted.
He said that this work is focused primarily on the European public opinion. "Here it’s more difficult to mislead journalists. The main strategy is also clear: everything that takes place in the south and east of Ukraine is inspired, prepared and implemented by Moscow, specifically - by the FSB (Federal Security Service), GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate of the RF General Staff) and the like," the source said."
Posted by: scalawag | May 3 2014 21:22 utc | 246
As anyone else mentioned if this was Libya, nato, US wound have bombed Ukraine by this time.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 21:30 utc | 247
@scalawag #246:
Thank you, scalawag! I'm not sure I'm not the only one who appreciates that. That looks much nicer.
I forgot to say that if someone pastes a bunch of different links, to YouTube for example, as people sometimes do, obviously just pasting the raw links, without any html code, is fine.
There's an information war going on at English Wikipedia, too. After the WaPo wrote that the pro-Kiev demonstrators started the union building fire, Wikipedia reflected that for a while, but now it is back to just repeating Uki propaganda. And judging by what someone at the Englsh Wikipedia noted, Russian Wikipedia's Ukraine articles are dominated by "liberals", too. When will Putin the authoritarian shut down Russian Wikipedia for being a CIA psy-op?
Scalawag
Right, I mean what did they get in return for releasing these people? Nothing but an attack by the kiev fascists.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3 2014 21:49 utc | 249
Posted by: Demian | May 3, 2014 5:39:12 PM | 248
Wikipedia is wasted bandwidth. One might as well fret over Fox "news" reports.
Posted by: Anoynmous | May 3, 2014 5:49:14 PM | 249
"Right, I mean what did they get in return for releasing these people? Nothing but an attack by the kiev fascists."
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'll be thick and repeat what I speculated. Holding on to the spies would not have stopped the attack, it was going to happen irregardless. Releasing them prevented a possible pretext generation of the nazis/western special forces killing the spies, blaming the other side, and using that to hype a nazi generated bloodbath of easterners, ala Latin America death squads-historical bandera terrorism, to be cheerlead by the western regimes and media.
Posted by: scalawag | May 3 2014 21:58 utc | 250
Link to ‘Why do they hate us so much?’ Southeast Ukraine seeks to understand new regime
"It is difficult for local residents of southeastern Ukraine to understand that their own country is trying to attack them, just because they have different viewpoints. Contact with soldiers loyal to Kiev is common and some of the troops understand the pro-Russian Ukrainians’ predicament.
However, it is not just in the south east of the country where displeasure has been voiced over the last few months about what has unfolded in Ukraine. One man speaking in the port city of Odessa said, “Around 80 percent of the people here are against Maidan. The rest are either misled or don’t live here permanently.”
There is a sense of lawlessness in the country, with those in the south east feeling particularly vulnerable. Those living in cities like Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa feel they have no protection from the police against attacks by Ukrainian Right Sector radicals.
A referendum and an exit from control by Kiev seems like the only viable option."
The western assault on the people of the southeast seems to have 2 goals.
1) To prevent that referendum. Should such an independence referendum be voted on, and pass there, the people could then invite Russian protection, like South Ossetia and Abkhazia have done. The west wants desperately to prevent such a scenario, since that would completely foil their planning.
2) Create chaos in order to draw Russian into a military occupation of the region, for reasons that are obvious.
Posted by: scalawag | May 3 2014 22:15 utc | 251
@250
Irregardless isnt a word. You mean regardless.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 4 2014 0:01 utc | 252
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however.
Posted by: lol | May 4 2014 0:05 utc | 253
Posted by: Massinissa | May 3, 2014 8:01:25 PM | 252
"Irregardless isnt a word. You mean regardless."
Is that all you are about?
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 0:12 utc | 254
@254
No?
@253
Regardless is already a negative, so adding another negative to it is absurdity. Its no more a word than any other slang term.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 4 2014 0:39 utc | 255
Former USAID advisor “very proud” watching carnage in Odessa | PandoDaily
If the pro-Russians’ deaths weren’t awful enough, the gloating on Twitter by supporters of Ukrainian nationalists has been absolutely sickening. For example, @EuroMaidan — the main pro-Ukraine Twitter handle for the pro-EU Maidan Square revolutionaries since that protest movement started last November — mocked the torching of pro-Russians by tweeting “the roof the roof the roof is on fire” accompanied by a photo from Odessa of a burning pro-Russian tent camp, torched by Ukrainian nationalists, next to the building where the 38 pro-Russians died in the fire:the roof the roof the roof is on fire pic.twitter.com/DXzEPf2w21
— ЄВРОМАЙДАН (@euromaidan) May 2, 2014
The @EuroMaidan handle has 122,000 followers, including just about every journalist and political figure interested in that region. Another @EuroMaidan Tweet during the bloody events yesterday depicted Russians as cockroaches getting swept away by a EuroMaidan broom colored in the EU blue-and-yellow, with the Ukrainian trident symbol:
pic.twitter.com/x69y6IQdaN
— ЄВРОМАЙДАН (@euromaidan) May 2, 2014
But perhaps the most shocking tweet I’ve seen so far came from Anders Aslund, a Peterson Institute senior fellow who, in the 1990s, helped design Russia’s catastrophic privatization programs, and who helped shape US and IMF policy towards Russia during privatization, working closely with USAID. When I was in Russia, Aslund used to pen drivel like “Amnesty The Oligarchs” — and now, thanks to his Peterson fellowship, he’s aligning himself with billionaire Pete Peterson, Nixon’s former commerce secretary, who wants to privatize America’s social safety net.
Here is what Aslund tweeted about pro-Ukrainian nationalists’ “victory” in Odessa yesterday, where at least 38 pro-Russians were killed when Ukrainian mobs set fire to their building (the latest death toll figure rose to 46):
Odesa made me very proud today. Tough people there. Wont take any BS from Russia.
— Anders Östlund (@andersostlund) May 2, 2014
That shouldn’t be surprising, given USAID’s history of working with fascist killers, but it does still sicken.
The Twitter-orgy of Ukrainian nationalists gloating over the mass-deaths of pro-Russians in Odessa sickened a lot of journalists and observers I know and follow, most of whom are sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause.
Posted by: ProPeace | May 4 2014 0:44 utc | 256
The fight is now in Kiev, moderate to orders from Germany and voluntary sectors to ultra timoshenko orders with Polish support : spainbuca
What about yesterday is not casual, on Monday he wanted to dismiss the interior minister and shows the influence of timoshenko
Military Aircraft Based on kiev, were painted with distinctive white oak coat of Ukraine
At present high military Ukraine are already out on the border area Donetsk, talks with Russian army
You can confirm that the military cargo planes that flew near Odessa, carrying cargo and not personal, I suppose arms
Envelopes aircraft near donetsk, still can not rule out carrying paratroopers
The vast majority of mercenaries are Polish
If dead on the side of Kiev militias occurs, we will see the front pages of newspapers
The substance with which the fire was caused yesterday, there is not in ukraine and yes in Poland
The order of the slaughter timoshenko yesterday gave the morning, I told happened here and then echos
And today orders are the same as those yesterday
After a conversation, makes me think that the Russian army can intervene within hours
Posted by: ProPeace | May 4 2014 1:01 utc | 257
Pedantic misdirection aside from the usual characters, the nazis under control of the west continue their drive to prevent dissent in the Ukraine.
Link to Ukrainian army attacks eastern cities of Mariupol, Konstantinovka
"The Ukrainian military has started an operation against pro-autonomy activists in the city of Mariupol, southeastern Ukraine, as well as the town of Konstantinovka, according to local self-defense activists.
The troops have moved into Mariupol and have surrounded an administrative building held by anti-government protesters.
There are a few hundred activists inside the building. They told RT that the army is warning them that if they do not leave the building in the coming minutes, they will be fired at and the building will be seized.
“I am in the center of the city, there are a lot of ambulances outside the local administration building, gunfire is being heard, armored vehicles have entered the city and are moving towards the center,” witness Tatyana told RT by phone. “People are going there as well, to prevent the soldiers form shooting. We are hoping they won’t shoot at civilians, though from what we’ve seen before, we are not sure anymore.
Mikhail Krutko from the self-defense headquarters told Interfax news agency: “Residents are unarmed, they blocked roads in the city center, built up barricades from tires and other things not to let hardware pass. They set tires on fire.”
People on the ground told RT’s Paula Slier that there are 300-500 anti-Kiev protesters there and they are unarmed. There have so far been no reports of injuries.
“There is no fatalities so far, but I can’t say anything about the number of injured. Right now police have returned from the scene, but people in dark uniforms can be seen in other parts of the city,” another witness named Dmitry told RT.
A bank building has been set ablaze in Mariupol, local news website 0629 reported.
At the same time, a convoy of Ukrainian APCs has forced its way through self-defense checkpoints near the Donetsk Region town of Konstantinovka. Shots and alarm can be heard inside the city.
There are reports that at least two people have been killed, Paula Slier says. The TV building has reportedly been seized by the army and all transmissions are currently off-air, she adds.
Self-defense units earlier seized the security services headquarters in the town.
Ukraine's acting interior minister, Arsen Avakov, has confirmed that a special operation is underway in the town of Konstantinovka, adding that several soldiers have been injured.
Menawhile National Security Council secretary Andrey Parubiy has said that Kiev is planning to begin special military operations in other regions of Ukraine after it completes its current operations in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.
Over the past few days, Ukraine has stepped up its military operations in southeastern Ukraine against pro-autonomy activists. The main opposition strongholds include Kramatorsk, Slavyansk, Lugansk, and others.
In Lugansk, self-defense forces have declared a state of emergency and full mobilization amid Kiev’s punitive military operation in the region on Saturday.
At the same time, outraged residents of Kramatorsk have lashed out at troops entering the city's streets. The Ukrainian military is currently occupying the city of Kramatorsk following an assault early on Saturday, a local self-defense unit said. Activists said that 10 people died in fighting overnight and two others were “killed by snipers.”
Meanwhile, clashes between pro-nationalist radicals and anti-Kiev activists have intensified. On Friday, more than 45 anti-Kiev protesters were killed in Odessa; some died in clashes, while others died from burns or suffocation after being trapped inside the House of Trade Unions building by the ultra-nationalist Right Sector group.”
Hey no sweat, though, their English likely wasn't approved by Massinissa.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 1:08 utc | 258
how to outrage 'allies'? send in McCain
Debby @debby_lowery · 17h
Outrage in Berlin over 'vicious' McCain attack on Merkel http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-berlin-over-vicious-mccain-attack-merkel-005159930.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory …
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 1:20 utc | 259
@258
Parubiy is likely the mastermind behind the Kiev snipings/
He was also in Odessa some days before the massacre....and someone above mentions snipers in odessa...said to have been pro-russian(UNlikely!)
put these together and what do you have?!
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 1:24 utc | 260
@258
Its not a matter of 'approving'. And its not as if I think a slang word is more important than people being murdered by fascist Banderites.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 4 2014 1:28 utc | 261
Posted by: brian | May 3, 2014 9:24:27 PM | 260
No doubt the sod was involved, but Parubiy is a brown-nosed gofer. An Ukrainian version of Luis Posada Carriles or one of 100's of similar subhuman garbage in the employ of those nice guys and gals running the west. A low level, expendable employee.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 1:48 utc | 262
Ukraine's Election Is Irrelevant The president will change, but the parliament won't—and that's the problem
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117627/2014-ukrainian-presidential-election-almost-irrelevant
Posted by: Virgile | May 4 2014 2:13 utc | 263
Hey, are you ready to kill Ukrainian women to be a new and modern "Ukrainian" soldier?
Link to Before sending in soldiers Donbass oblige shoot women
(Google translation)
If you don't get off on that shit, you fail the test and the west doesn't want you to be an Ukrainian death squaddie.
Many thanks to Ukraine's masters who worked all this psychological profiling stuff out in their western think tanks to weed out humanness in their potential employee applicants. Here's to applying regular commercial employee profiling tests to weeding out potential humans in the army (and helping eradicate the Commie/Palestinian sympathetic unionists) - coming to a western country near you). Who says that policies in the "private sektor" cant be used in the "public sektor", our neocon buggery is now confirmed. If one cant have an army determined to slaughter women and children, what is the point of it all?
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 2:22 utc | 264
"(Google translation)"
Typo, it's my own sarcastic interpretation.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 2:24 utc | 265
Obama shows paradigm shift in Ukraine
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-shows-paradigm-shift-ukraine
Calls by conservative on Capitol Hill, largely from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), for more U.S. involvement fell on deaf ears, as the White House starts to understand that Kiev’s post-revolutionary leaders aren’t backed by a majority of Ukrainians, certainly not in Eastern Ukraine.Instead of blaming only Russia for unrest in Eastern Ukraine, the White House has finally got two sides of the story. Most Russian-speaking citizens in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine don’t back the Feb. 22 coup that drove Yanukovich from power. Watching 31 bystanders go up in smoke in Odessa shocked Washington into the very real possibility of civil war. Lavrov’s call to the U.S. to stop Kiev’s current march toward civil war offers what could be the last ditch attempt to avoid more bloodshed. Two more Ukrainian soldiers killed in Slovyansk attests to the bitter divisions among pro-Russian separatists that don’t accept Kiev’s authority. “Today the international community must stand together in support of the Ukrainian people as the cope with this tragedy,” said State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf, refraining from the kind of finger-pointing that irked Moscow.
...
After over two months of blaming Moscow, the White House finally recognizes that Kiev’s current leaders don’t represent the vast majority of Ukrainians. “The violence and mayhem that led to so many senseless deaths and injuries is unacceptable,” said Harf, refusing, for the first time, to assign blame. Secretary of State John Kerry has refrained from his critical barrage against Putin and Lavrov, seeing a more balanced view of Ukraine’s crisis.Resisting calls to escalate the conflict from Capitol Hill, the White House finally pivoted in the right direction, refraining from pointing fingers at Moscow. Lavrov’s call for White House help to restrain Kiev may be too late as Turchinov and Yatsenyuk look more desperate trying seize control over Eastern Ukraine. “We call on all sides to work together to restore calm and law and order, and we call on the Ukrainian authorities to launch a full investigation and bring all those responsible to justice,” said Harf, referring to recent deaths in Odessa. Calling on Kiev to do its part to halt the violence, the White House put Turchinov and Yatsenyuk on notice to stop the provocation or face a halt to U.S. support. Blaming only Moscow for current unrest denies the fact that Kiev’s post-revolutionary leaders don’t enjoy wide popular support. “The violence and efforts to destabilize the country must end,” said Harf, putting Kiev on notice.
Posted by: Virgile | May 4 2014 2:27 utc | 266
It looks like there may well be an Egypt-like development in Ukraine: A military coup will put an end to the Ukrainian mafia that has pushed for a quick election to legitimize their hold on power. Maybe the Ukrainians will get an Ukranian Morsi in power and we can assume what will happen next or even before that farcical election takes place.
It may take a year and many death to see a result...
Posted by: Virgile | May 4 2014 2:46 utc | 267
Posted by: Virgile | May 3, 2014 10:46:29 PM | 267
"Maybe the Ukrainians will get an Ukranian Morsi"
They already got that. The creature is called a Yats. And the Ukrainian "Muslim Brotherhood" are the bandera nazis. The west is running the same basic play script, with same roles for the puppets, just different manipulated, greedy, bigoted suckers playing them. That's all.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 3:03 utc | 268
Mayor of Slavyansk confirms a number of reports that last night at Andreyevka, close to the place where, during the day, local civilians stopped Ukrainian BRTs, the Right Sector executed about a dozen of civilians with another 30 receiving various gun shots ... after the Ukrainian army unit pulled aside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sph6Fp2n7-k#t=35
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 3:49 utc | 269
http://de-de-de.livejournal.com/117125.html
Pascal Wegener via Andrej Sidenko
3 hrs
Please share this with your Russian-speaking friends! Here are the names of the Satan-loving sluts who helped burn those innocent people in Odessa:
Khristina Yizhak http://vk.com/yozhikontour
Katerina Olegivna http://vk.com/kvi1o4ka88
Alla Kolesnik http://vk.com/id14613516
Darya Marien http://vk.com/daria_marien
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 3:50 utc | 270
@268
yes: Morsi was ready to have the egyptian army invade Syria...the egyptian military said NO and had him removed....rightly
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/09/312975/morsi-ousted-to-stop-plan-for-syria/
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 3:52 utc | 271
@brian #271:
That's a very interesting piece. I didn't know that angle on the Egyptian coup. I'll have to start following press.tv. (I don't trust al Jazeera.)
Do you recall that the NY Times published a chronology of how the coup transpired, with the most dramatic moment being when someone telephoned Susan Rice and got the go ahead from her to go ahead with the coup? I actually tried to get that into Wikipedia, but because I couldn't find any other source that mentioned that phone call, I couldn't.
Now I wonder whether that story was not just invented and published to reassure Americans that USG was not caught by surprise by the coup.
Lots of Twitter time tonight.
First - calls in Russia are growing for Putin to intervene. The pressure from inside Russia is building.
Retweeted by the Communist Party Igor Korotchenko @ i_korotchenko 20h The Kremlin needs to understand a simple thing: a compromise with the U.S. is no longer possible. States will conduct war against Russia on its complete destruction
Second - isn't the fact that Twitter doesn't have a very simple method of translation (which would be easy enough, Google does it) just a big giant win for US propaganda?
Third - I finally found this. It is an interview with former CIA agent Phil Agee about CIA/Far-Right connection during the Cold War. It is most certainly applicable to what is happening in Ukraine today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfeOF0tiPPE&feature=youtu.be&t=33m16s
Posted by: guest77 | May 4 2014 5:21 utc | 273
Link to Радикалы в Краматорске расстреляли юную медсестру и троих ее друзей
"Radicals in Kramatorsk shot a young nurse and her three friends
From her injuries 21-year-old Julia Izotova died on the spot.
During the assault the roadblock in Kramatorsk Natsgvardii militants and SBU killed Woman-nurse and her three friends. Machine on which the young people wanted to leave to a safe place, gunned. Everyone who was in the car, did not die in place. According to an eyewitness, two bullets hit the girl through the rear window of the car.
Julia Izotova was only 21 years old girl graduated from medical school and worked as a nurse, provided first aid to the wounded militia."
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 5:47 utc | 274
@272
Al Jazeera is Qatari.
Press tv is Iranian.
Qatar is a US/Israeli client state.
Press Tv isnt the best, but between the two of them, obvious which is better.
And you know, Al Jazeera was pro-morsi and anti-assad so its obvious where its biases lay.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 4 2014 5:56 utc | 275
@guest77 #273:
Re your first point. Yeah, I read that there are increasing calls on Putin to intervene. Nobody knows what he's going to do because (1) he can read intelligence briefs whereas we can't; (2) he throws ideas around with his advisers, so when he makes a decision, there are many more good minds involved in making it besides his; (3) he is a wily operator.
I think Putin will allow the Ukraine to fester for an indefinite amount of time. This means that more Ukrainian citizens will be killed by the crazies, but one must keep in mind that any military intervention is going to get innocent people killed, too. (Crimea was unique in several respects.) I thought that the person who made the following remark at the Saker might have been on to something:
Putin’s ‘grand strategy’ is to ‘wedge’ Germany and the UK from the US. To win the ‘moral’ war and to set the scene for an intervention (or a ideally a counter coup), only when it becomes politically advantageous.
So the Kiev fascists will have to show their true colors some more before Putin makes a move.
Tatiana Modica Yulia Timoshenko is discussing a massacre of WW2 veterans.This will lead to unimaginable catastrophe. Please share asap.
Внимание, Тимошенко на заседании планирует нападение на ветеранов Великой Отечественной Войны. Немедленно перепост по всем каналом, она в Одессе.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPSBJyDb1uM
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 6:10 utc | 277
Related to the above posts. What would a Russian ground invasion of the Ukraine possibly look like?
Link to A small clarification to the previous SITREP
I keep referring to this gentleman's posts like I'm doing PR for him, but the truth is, he seems to have some of the best insight into this conflict I've seen on the web.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 6:15 utc | 278
@272
many people have been fooled by events in egypt,thinking: Morsi : democracy...Sisi...SU bacedk army...but Syria is always the issue that most clearly shows the character of people:
Morsi also backed the sending of jihadis to syria:
'On Saturday, President Mohamad Morsi announced that Egypt has shuttered its embassy in Damascus and has severed all diplomatic ties with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's rogue government. The Egyptian president also declared support for a no-fly zone in Syria, in conjunction with President Obama's proposal for arming the opposition and a partial no-fly zone, and in a statement last week gave virtual carte blanche to any Egyptians seeking to fight "jihad" in Syria. '
...
'Now, the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood is dominating the external opposition National Coalition of Syrian Opposition and Revolutionary Forces, or Etilaf, with no small help from Qatar, which has also been very supportive of President Morsi and the Egyptian Brotherhood. '
etc
http://www.policymic.com/articles/49131/bashar-al-assad-mohamed-morsi-calls-for-jihad-against-syria-should-we-care
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 6:17 utc | 279
being a democratically elected leader like Morsi was doesnt mean is is agood guy. If Obama decided to attack Canada or Mexico, should he be allowed to send an army to reduce Toronto or ottawa to ashes or should he be removed from office?
again:
'President Mohamed Morsi voiced unfaltering support for the Syrian uprising against the regime of President Bashar Al-Assad in a speech on Saturday. He accused the Syrian regime of subjecting its people to “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” in his vow to provide financial aid and moral support to the Syrian rebels.
“We hear your call, Syria,” said President Morsi at the start of his speech. The president condemned Al-Assad’s regime for using foreign aid against its own people and pledged his commitment to “the liberation of the Syrian population.”
http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2013/06/15/egypt-to-aid-syrian-rebels/
war mongering and lying to get a war..the egytians did good to have him removed
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 6:21 utc | 280
Posted by: Demian | May 4, 2014 1:58:04 AM | 276
Putin has a lot of internal problems to take care of. Ukraine for sure was designed as a template for a covert attack on Russia, the liberal fascist football hooligan alliance a model to be replicated and Russia has a lot of right wing chauvinistic nut cases herself that might be used for civil war.
For comic relief
The sole function of Europe - Museum
Posted by: somebody | May 4 2014 6:21 utc | 281
Does anyone have any clue about what the eastern ukrainian oligarchs stances are? E.g. I understand that Ahmetov is the main force in the donezk region - what's his view on separatism, referendum and relations to russia? What's going on in Charkiw after Kernes has been shot?
My guess on Ahmetov would be, that he's generally tolerating the antimaidanists and "pro-russian" (literally) shifts, but only under the premise that donbas remains a legal part of ukraine - also, I haven't heard a word about "annexation" or integration of ukrainian regions to russia.
Any insight on this 'd be very welcome ;-)
Posted by: peter radiator | May 4 2014 6:40 utc | 282
scalawag
How is the muslim brotherhood the banderas when its sisi that made a coup and killed 1000s people? Stupid.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 4 2014 6:58 utc | 283
Just disgusting,
"OSCE" spies welcomed by german ministers!
http://rt.com/news/156588-osce-observers-freed-ukraine/
Posted by: Anonymous | May 4 2014 7:08 utc | 284
Posted by: peter radiator | May 4, 2014 2:40:08 AM | 282
Sorry Peter, but what the oligarchs want is not driving what the people of the south east want. They are tired of being under the jackboots of these foreign aligned robber-barons and want nothing to do with them anymore. I know that doesn't answer your question, but the oligarchs you refer to are the same sort of oligarchs running the west, to everybody elses detriment. The proclaimed views of a Soros, Rockefeller, Saban or Rothschild is rather meaningless to those without memberships to their country clubs. Note the following:
Link to Мариуполь - предварительная сводка за ночь на 4 мая 2014
(Google translation)
"Mariupol - preliminary summary for a night on May 4, 2014
Mariupol. Summary of events per night:
- Storming the city executive committee failed;
- Troops arrive, probably in the morning assault again;
- Central Branch burned "Privat";
- According to preliminary data not killed, wounded about unknown kidnapped at least two defenders Executive Committee
Further details ...
Events before midnight.
Once Ukrainian troops appeared on the outskirts, GO headquarters included siren. Then there was the storming of the city executive committee with automatic weapons. An eyewitness reported that it was "the right sector." Opposite the building in the grass lay people in black uniform. They shot at unarmed people. Then the protesters left the building and became a human shield in the square, on the barricades. Activists blocked the burning tires central avenues. Further, there are conflicting information:
Deputy of Donetsk Regional Council of People's Republic Irina Voropaeva reports federalization supporters said they did not intend to leave the City Council building occupied by April 13.
Also there is a participant in the events has the text: "We do not need it nafig building! Hear the people, we want justice, we want freedom! We are opposed to the occupation of our land by foreign military, mercenaries We junta against the criminal!"
After midnight:
Mariupol police lifted the cordon, which at some point (it is not clear) exposed. It is known that many police officers were close by and for "the Wedding Palace" also be placed in the school № 2. By City MO SWAT team moved. In the eastern region rode the car window of a woman shout shouting "Mariupol get up!"
In the courtyard in front of the Board were armed men "right sector." They kidnapped at least two defenders. Possible collection point PS - area of the old church on the "Novoselovka", where there are non-residential buildings. In the city continue to arrive Ukrainian armed forces. "Tanks" (possibly BTR / BRDM), which moved along the road from the "Mangushev" stayed in the country in the "Amstor" (about a dozen cars). Most people do not sleep at night, but sat on apartments and houses, without going outside.
No information about the dead.
Reminder:
Supporters of federalization occupied the building in Mariupol city council on Sunday April 13 after a protest, which was attended by about a thousand people. Police officers retreated under the onslaught of protesters. After that activists took control of the City Council building, erecting barricades in front."
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 7:09 utc | 285
@somebody #281:
Thanks, that was really enjoyable! Fursov is really Russian. He really does represent a certain strand of Russian thought. (Thankfully, he didn't mention Stalin this time.)
Maybe Fursov is what the American old-school leftist journalist Chris Floyd had in mind when he made the bizarre claim that Putin's Russia is "hysterically nationalist".
Forgot some in the above, which relates to Peter's question of oligarch POV:
"Close to midnight, protesters smashed and burned Central Branch "Privat" villain Kolomoyskogo. Even if the building is insured and then it is not such a case. Sure, Sunday at Beni will be bleak."
The bank and HQ of the local oligarch, trashed and burned. That is what the people generally think of those oligarchs.
Posted by: scalawag | May 4 2014 7:20 utc | 287
Posted by: Demian | May 4, 2014 3:13:49 AM | 286
Just because they are paranoid does not mean the West is not out to get them ...
Posted by: somebody | May 4 2014 7:55 utc | 288
How the civil war in Odessa was staged - from April 25.
Chief of the regional police department Petro Lutsyuk has demanded earlier that Odessa authorities should take away armed activists sent from Kiev as the latter destabilize the current situation in the region. “As a large number of people who were left in Kiev without supervision gathered in the city, it was decided to dispatch these formations to the city of Odessa. We do not need this. They came and created an unstable situation,” Lutsyuk said at a session of the regional council that opened on Thursday. In his words, the people “have set up 12 checkpoints in the region with an unclear legal status at which more than 500 people are on duty in shifts.”Local media report numerous conflicts flaring up at these checkpoints. Odessa residents and guests of the city complain that they are stopped, checked and their money is extorted, meanwhile, numerous conflicts are sparking up that end in brawls, there were several incidents when glasses of checked cars were broken by clubs. Last week the police have spotted an arms depot in Odessa that belongs to radical nationalist organization Right Sector. The weapons depot contained cartridges, cold steel, clubs, incendiary bottles and smoke-puff charges .
Volodymyr Nemirovsky appointed as governor of Odessa Region by Kiev authorities spoke in protection of checkpoints which, in his view, “are needed to control police’s activity.”
Petro Lutsyuk has been dismissed after the Odessa killings.
Posted by: somebody | May 4 2014 8:33 utc | 289
Gaaaaaawd!!! JFK Conspiracy!! AIPAC!! 9/11 a false flag attack ...c'mon...MoA is better than this...Chomsky is no God/Demi-God/Gr8 Intellectual...and he'll be the first person to tell that to you...
Please use an iota of your brain and you'll bee able to see through this shit....
1) Who cares who killed JFK..really...?? Was he any good to the South Vietnamese?? Hell no. He was just another Obama-like character. Check Bernard Fall and others. Look at what had already done by 1965 to South Vietnam and to Cuba.
2)AIPAC: lets do a thought experiment. Lets assume there are no lobbies. Do you think that the American policy towards Israel will change??? I don't think so. The lobby explanation is too simplistic and their impact is exaggerated.
3)9/11 false flag attack: OK, this is pure loony territory (just like nobody landed on the moon kind). I'm not even going to give an argument here.
Friends, there are real conspiracies out there. Conspiracies the are robbing us of our environment,our economy and what not. Focus on them!!!
And yes please, kindly stop the name calling. You don't have too agree with Chomsky one bit!! But calling him a names on an anonymous forum is childish!!
Posted by: Grivko | May 4 2014 8:51 utc | 291
Posted by: somebody | May 4, 2014 4:33:45 AM | 289
Great stuff, the kind of post that makes this site essential. Put it under my MyFDL post.
I do not cite Chompsky as an authority normally because I disagree with too many things he has said. However, he remains one of our great radical voices against the horrors of US capitalism and western imperialism in general. What is crazy with much of this thread is that he is being held up as some kind of secret agent acting on behalf of US imperialism and responsible for the west's efforts to move Ukraine into NATO. This attack on Chompsky is totally nuts. Where do you guys come up with such unreasonable conspiracy theories?
Somehow, it looks like every left wing nut and right wing troll have descended on the Moon's comment section to, in effect, render these comments utterly useless, at best, and discrediting it completely, at worse.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 4 2014 9:36 utc | 293
Interesting bit of information from German n-tv
Russlands Außenminister Sergej Lawrow warnte am Tag nach den Krawallen in einem Telefonat mit seinem deutschen Amtskollegen Frank-Walter Steinmeier vor einer Welle der Gewalt in der Ostukraine. Er habe die Sorge, dass nach der Freilassung der OSZE-Geiseln die ukrainischen Truppen nun zum Großangriff gegen die Separatisten übergehen, sagte Lawrow nach Angaben seines Ministeriums. Beide Minister hätten ihre Bereitschaft bekundet, gleichberechtigte Verhandlungen zwischen der Zentralmacht in Kiew und den "Repräsentanten" im Südosten des Landes zu ermöglichen, hieß es in Moskau. Die Gespräche sollten unter Führung der Organisation für Sicherheit und Zusammenarbeit in Europa (OSZE) geführt werden.
Brief translation According to Moscow, Lavrov phoned Steinmeier to express his fears that Ukrainian troops now would start an offensive against separatists after the military observers had been released. Both ministers (Lavrov and Steinmeier) agreed to enable equal negotiations between Kyiv and representatives of the South-East under the leadership of OSCE.
Posted by: somebody | May 4 2014 9:51 utc | 294
Those fcking bastards!
German report: US agents in Ukraine
http://rt.com/news/156692-ukraine-cia-fbi-agents/
Posted by: Anonymous | May 4 2014 11:53 utc | 295
Steiner @Steiner1776 16m
#Ukraine #Sloviansk Under self defense control again. Tanks heading towards ukr. army checkpoint http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNk3SUfIX4M …
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 12:52 utc | 296
Steiner @Steiner1776 26m
#Ukraine #PravySector armbands found left behind in captured army base in #Lugansk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qzfh0cJg3M … via @Catherina_News
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 12:53 utc | 297
PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT 4m
#Odessa: Ppl are crowding near the #Police office and waiting. No representative come to talk with them yet. pic.twitter.com/BfdOJ1wspy
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 12:55 utc | 298
RT @RT_com 3m
#Odessa: Anti-govt protesters block Interior Ministry building, chants demanding 'give our children back' heard http://on.rt.com/pivjlz
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 12:57 utc | 299
PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT 8m
#Odessa: People are demanding #Yazenyuk to visit the scene of the #massacre and to 'face them'. They're chanting: '#RightSector go away'.
Posted by: brian | May 4 2014 12:58 utc | 300
The comments to this entry are closed.
Frédérique Hitzert With Mykolas Alutis: I have been an Erasmus student and I have participated in around 30 projects of exchange funded by different EU programmes. I practically only watch BBC News and TV5 Monde. Something went wrong with me because I feel ashamed for the killings made by pro-european youngsters yesterday in Odessa and I am asking to the Russians or the Chechenyans or the Cubans or the Chinese or the fans of F.C Barcelona to intervene immediatly in Ukraine to protect civilians and to take the responsibles for that atrocity to the International Criminal Court. Please share.
List of videos where you can see with your own eyes what happened on 2/05/2014 in the city of Odessa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNpYYJTirOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNpYYJTirOY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbrcfdYM05g
Posted by: brian | May 3 2014 11:20 utc | 201