Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 02, 2014

Ukraine: IMF - Lose The East And Get More Money

One wonders which U.S. politician or functionary visited Ukraine yesterday. After CIA Director Brennan had visited Kiev the coup government of Ukraine launched an "anti-terror" campaign against federalists in the east. That soon pattered out. Then Vice President Biden visited Kiev and the next day another "anti-terror" campaign was launched but stopped after Russia mobilized some troops and threatened to invade. This morning a third "anti-terror" campaign was launched when some Ukrainian security forces encircled and attempted to storm the city of Slovyansk. Who initiated this?

This attempt soon ran into problems. Civilians blocked or held up (vid) troop movements. But supported by helicopters some troops managed to capture a few outlying road barricades. Then at least two of the helicopters were shot down by MANPADs. It was not expected that the armed federalists had such weapons ready but it is also not very astonishing. When the Soviet Union was dissolved Ukraine ended up with a fully equipped force of some 700,000 men. Today, 23 years later, the Ukrainian military force has some 70,000 men. What happened to all the equipment? Most of it was sold off to third countries in shady deals but a lot was just taken away or sold by corrupt officers to anyone who would pay a decent price. I would therefore not be surprised to see more higher level weapons in the hands of the federalists who include some veterans of the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan and other well trained former soldiers and police forces.

The attack on Slovyansk stopped at the city gates with the city itself still in the hands of the federalists. For now the situation there seems to be quiet. Meanwhile there were clashes in Odessa between pro-Kiev and anti-Kiev rioters.

The IMF, which has approved a huge $17 billion loan to Ukraine, gave an ominous warning. Consider yourself to be one of those ruling Ukrainian oligarchs who hope to pocket significant parts of these loans. What would you think after reading this:

Ukraine is at risk of a prolonged recession and may need an extension of its $17bn bailout should tensions with Russia and unrest in the east of the country escalate, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
"A long-lasting disruption of relations with Russia that depresses exports, investment and growth, or a loss of economic control over the east that reduces budget revenue, would require a significant recalibration of the programme and additional financing, including from Ukraine's bilateral partners," it says.

Translation: "Dear oligarchs, screw up the relations with Russia and lose the east and you will get more free money." Such IMF talk is not designed to help with any de-escalation.

I do not expect the coup-government's move on Slovyansk to result in any success. The only gain from it will be more support for the federalists and greater alienation in the east. Anecdotal reports from journalists crossing government checkpoints pointed out that the interior ministry troops used in this government operation were pretty pissed about the orders had received from Kiev. They wonder how fighting against a significant part of the population is supposed to help the country. Then again - they likely did not get the above IMF notice.

Adding: Obama mentor and Russophob Zbigniew Brzezinski seems to push for escalation of the situation as he envisions U.S. weaponized "urban resistance" in Ukraine against an (unlikely) Russian invasion. His rant includes this most hypocritical beauty:

Above all the president must clarify why we cannot tolerate an international system in which countries are invaded by thugs and destabilized from abroad.


Also of note: Both, the Washington Post and the BBC have started to use the term "rebels" to describe the federalists.

Posted by b on May 2, 2014 at 15:12 UTC | Permalink

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They may have been "pissed" but they managed to drive an APC right over someone who stood in their way. Not surprisingly, that someone is dead., in its irriatingly placatory style, says he "failed to get out of the way as the APC changed direction." This is the same that describes a right-wing mob in Odessa wearing football colours as "soccer fans." I suspect they are constantly being reminded by their august editor-in-chief or her owners that they must not hand sticks to the west hyenas by writing the minutest phrases or expressions that can be quoted in the west propaganda as manifesting "bias". But what this really demonstrates in my view is the quasi-instinctive way in which bourgeois interests all over the world club together against proletarian unrest, a class loyalty that overrides the nationalism they have to pretend to show for their own various national audiences, who naively expect their support in national struggles. The empire always wins, because it already owns everything in the world, so nationalist struggles are in reality of little interest to it. Ownership is all.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 15:20 utc | 1

Remember, once these funds are unblocked ($17 billions), Gazprom will get its $2.2 billions!
You gotta love this dilemna!

Posted by: FKA | May 2 2014 15:26 utc | 2

If the federalists can down two helicopters before the military can even breach the city limits this doesn't leave a lot of hope for the Kiev junta. The U.S. doesn't care about victory; at this point it is clearly planning on another cracked state a la Libya and Syria.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 2 2014 15:47 utc | 3

The members of Pravyi Sektor all probably served in the Ukrainian army at one time or another - incorporating them into the units that appear to be part of the Ukrainian army would not be difficult or take very long. So I suspect the "troops" outside Slovyansk are nothing more than Pravyi Sektor thugs in military uniform fulfilling their wildest wet dream of recreating the Waffen-SS to kill russians. They seem to have overlooked how that turned out last time.

Posted by: blowback | May 2 2014 15:48 utc | 4

Moscow also hiked the price of gas for Ukraine to $485 per thousand cubic meters from $268.50, and threatened to limit deliveries if Kiev does not respect that new price and repay a debt of $3.5 billion.

Oettinger met with Ukraine's and Russia's energy ministers, Yuri Prodan and Alexander Novak.

Novak said that because Ukraine did not pay for gas deliveries in March and April, Russia's state-owned gas monopoly, Gazprom, will demand prepayment for June deliveries to be made by end May. If the prepayment is not made, it will limit supplies to the levels contracted only by other European countries that receive their supplies through Ukraine.

Ukraine will take the price issue to a European arbitration court this month, Prodan said.

Posted by: Virgile | May 2 2014 15:50 utc | 5

nice quote from ziggy.. these morons never look in the mirror.

Posted by: james | May 2 2014 15:55 utc | 6

Noam Chomsky | Red Lines in Ukraine and Elsewhere
Russia's annexation of Crimea was an illegal act, in violation of international law and specific treaties. It's not easy to find anything comparable in recent years - the Iraq invasion is a vastly greater crime.

But one comparable example comes to mind: U.S. control of Guantanamo Bay in southeastern Cuba. Guantanamo was wrested from Cuba at gunpoint in 1903 and not relinquished despite Cuba's demands ever since it attained independence in 1959.

To be sure, Russia has a far stronger case. Even apart from strong internal support for the annexation, Crimea is historically Russian; it has Russia's only warm-water port, the home of Russia's fleet; and has enormous strategic significance. The United States has no claim at all to Guantanamo, other than its monopoly of force.

One reason why the United States refuses to return Guantanamo to Cuba, presumably, is that this is a major harbor and American control of the region severely hampers Cuban development. That has been a major U.S. policy goal for 50 years, including large-scale terror and economic warfare.

The United States claims that it is shocked by Cuban human rights violations, overlooking the fact that the worst such violations are in Guantanamo; that valid charges against Cuba do not begin to compare with regular practices among Washington's Latin American clients; and that Cuba has been under severe, unremitting U.S. attack since its independence.

But none of this crosses anyone's red lines or causes a crisis. It falls into the category of the U.S. invasions of Indochina and Iraq, the regular overthrow of parliamentary regimes and installation of vicious dictatorships, and our hideous record of other exercises of "upholding peace and stability."

Posted by: Virgile | May 2 2014 16:00 utc | 7

When the fascist coup regime falls... who in the Ukraine would or should honor the IMF debt?

Why is Russia (or anyone else for that matter) a member of the IMF?

Posted by: Eureka Springs | May 2 2014 16:01 utc | 8

Russia's annexation of Crimea was an illegal act, in violation of international law and specific treaties.
Chomsky is an asshole, tailor-made for the US pseudo-Left. The putsch was an illegal act. Bourgeois law does what its owners tell it to do, so legality is meaningless.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 16:07 utc | 9

@8 Indeed. Annexation seems to be The lie. Difficult to call a popular vote with overwhelming turnout, overwhelming approval by the Crimeans themselves some sort of annexation by Russia. All while ignoring the fact a fascist US coup prompted this action to begin with.

But then Chomsky is getting old... He finally lost me when he endorsed Obama in the last election.

Posted by: Eureka Springs | May 2 2014 16:21 utc | 10

b, do you have info to verify your statement about the MANPADS? I suggested several threads back that anti-tank and MANPADS would be essential for the federalists to have any chance against a well equipped assault. I looked at several videos of the aftermath of the helicopter shootdowns, but nothing showing HOW there were shot down.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 16:31 utc | 11

Rowan Berkeley @1
RT is attempting to gain credibility the way that, until Hutton etc, the BBC did, by deliberate understatements and attempts to appear objective. In other words they sacrifice the short term gain of news propaganda for the enduring benefits of credibility.
It is a very shrewd move on their part and it is paying off: RT is becoming a major factor in international news coverage, and a real thorn in the flesh of the MSM whose credibility is evaporating rapidly (as I keep on saying.)

@8 Chomsky is often, as he is here, a very powerful advocate for honesty and an enemy of the warmongers. Who ever ordered him to be "tailor made" deserves our gratitude. He is often wrong but if you think he is an "asshole" (a particularly American euphemism/insult) you have very elevated standards.

As to your analysis of the law: what happened in Kiev was illegal in the sense that it breached the constitution. It was very much like the Hitler appointment by Hindenburg or Mussolini's march to Rome: underneath all the PR 'legalism' it was about thugs intimidating legislators into voting or abstaining. What was the Rada vote? Did anyone dare vote against the appointment of the Speaker as "President"?

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 16:32 utc | 12

...Zbigniew Brzezinski seems to push for escalation of the situation as he envisions U.S. weaponized "urban resistance" in Ukraine against an (unlikely) Russian invasion..."

He's got it the wrong way round. He must realise this. Russia isn't going to invade, because it doesn't need to. In sharp contrast to the CIA's colour revolutions, such as Maidan, where the support is inch deep and most of the crowds are silly youngsters clueless and inexperienced, the resistance in Odessa and the Donbas seems to be solidly rooted in the working class. There's much less noise than there was in Kiev but a lot more action. The 'Cossacks' seem to be streaming over to the workers' side, in a way that they did not in Maidan.

This is why I suspect the "government" forces attacking are full of foreign mercenaries and oligarchs' bodyguards as well as the fascists: there is nobody else willing to put his life on the line for the scum working for the US and the bankers. They would be nuts if they did.

Maybe Kiev is just going through the motions hoping that something will come of their efforts. Their problem is that with every passing day it will become tougher for them to penetrate the military and social defences that the revolutionaries are erecting. Yats and Brennan have "missed the bus" if it ever came at all.

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 16:45 utc | 13

Zbig, "...still might be possible to design it along the lines of the relationship that Russia has with Finland, which is not a member of NATO but enjoys full participation in Europe as best it can, even as it enjoys also a normal relationship with Russia. Obama should convey clearly to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States is prepared to use its influence to ensure that a truly independent and territorially undivided Ukraine pursues policies toward Russia similar to those so effectively practiced by Finland: mutually respectful neighbors, wide-ranging economic relations both with Russia and the European Union, but no participation in any military alliance viewed by Moscow as directed at itself – while also expanding its European connectivity. The Finnish model may be the ideal example for Ukraine, the EU and Russia."

Read more:

Zbig is now taking Kissinger's proposal.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 16:57 utc | 14

Here's another aspect of the oligarch's frittering away of the IMF's money:

"Right Sector leader [presidential candidate Dimitry Yarosh] denied receiving funding from oligarchs. "We're not using oligarchs' money in politics, but when a war is on, we do not object to their funding the army."

So yeah, the IMF is going to fund war by channeling funds through the oligarchs. I think that most would call that "fascism." Nice of the IMF to encourage this.

Posted by: JC | May 2 2014 17:03 utc | 15

Zbig refers twice to the "international system" - "...Ukraine crisis is the most important challenge to the international system..." in addition to b's quote above.

I can only assume he's talking about US hegemony over the whole world.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 17:08 utc | 16

More delusional bullshit about weaponized "urban resistance" against a Russian invasion from the UK Royal United Services Institute:

Ukraine Crisis: The Strategic Importance of Slavyansk

Kiev knows that it has a strategic reserve of Kalashnikov assault rifles and other light weapons stored in Ukraine as a mobilisation reserve dating back to Soviet times. It has hinted quietly but strongly in back channels between Ukrainian and Russian military establishments that it might be prepared to open this strategic reserve of weapons to an eastern Ukrainian population prepared to resist any Russian military incursions. Since the stockpile consists of up to five million weapons, the prospect would be a nightmare for Russian military planners if they realistically prepared to move into eastern areas of Ukraine. The prospect of civil war and an anti-Russian insurgency on an unprecedented scale with unpredictable consequences represents a real – if extremely dangerous – bargaining chip for Kiev.

In reality, if the population of eastern Ukraine were to get their hands on the weapons they would use them to resits not Russia but the Kyiv junta and their Pravy Sector invasion force.

The stockpile is real. The standoff started already on March 18 when the people of Slavjansk decided to prevent Pravy Sector fascists from gaining access to the weapons.

As for 5 million Kalashnikovs, nobody needs them. Even 5000 would be far too many for this conflict. It is better to use baseball bats. (...and maybe some surface-to-air missiles.)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 2 2014 17:09 utc | 17

Posted by: Virgile | May 2, 2014 12:00:37 PM | 6

"Russia's annexation of Crimea was an illegal act, in violation of international law and specific treaties. It's not easy to find anything comparable in recent years - the Iraq invasion is a vastly greater crime.

But one comparable example comes to mind: U.S. control of Guantanamo Bay in southeastern Cuba. Guantanamo was wrested from Cuba at gunpoint in 1903 and not relinquished despite Cuba's demands ever since it attained independence in 1959."

Chomsky has completely lost the plot. For decades, this man has called for peaceful "people power" as a way to change things instead of armed clashes. But confronted with an example of this in Crimea, he immediately follows the west's fascist line. The man is a total hypocrite. That piece was sloppy attempt to spin western propaganda into something "progressive" for the phony "left" R2P'ers to rally round and deceive those who have not bought into the scam.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 17:10 utc | 18

i agree with rowans assessment @8 and bevins @11.. the law is made by those in power and will be pushed or pulled accordingly. chomsky saying crimea was illegal while keeping his mouth shut on the illegality of the coup gives clarity on chomsky.

Posted by: james | May 2 2014 17:11 utc | 19

I think I was wrong about the guy run over by the APC being dead. I think they just crushed his legs. That could kill by itself, massive loss of blood, massive CNS shock etc, but anyway, I think he's alive. So let's hope that. We don't get anything out of anybody being dead, and that's a fact. Sorry if I jumped the shark.


Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 17:16 utc | 20

Possibly OT:

Pentagon to Destroy $1 Billion Worth of Ammunition [???]

April 29th, 2014

The Pentagon plans to destroy more than $1 billion worth of ammunition although some of those bullets and missiles could still be used by troops, according to the Pentagon and congressional sources.

It’s impossible to know what portion of the arsenal slated for destruction — valued at $1.2 billion by the Pentagon — remains viable because the Defense Department’s inventory systems can’t share data effectively, according to a Government Accountability Office report obtained by USA TODAY.

But possibly not OT - after all, what are the chances that little of this alleged "spare Ammo" will actually be "destroyed"?

What might be the likelihood that it will instead be quietly shipped off to some place like Syria, to supply the Islmao-nutter NATO-created/supported Terrorists operating there? Or maybe even to Ukraine (but probably not Ukraine because a lot of the weapons in use by both sides in Ukraine seem to be Russian. I don't know much about the differences in calibre, if any, between NATO Weaponry and Russian weaponry, but if Mr Pragma were here he probably could give us chapter and verse on that subject)

Posted by: mgm | May 2 2014 17:16 utc | 21

okie @ 12 - thanks for the article. more fear mongering from a master fear monger-er.. too bad him and kissinger can't just disappear in the sunset. they keep on trying to make there version of reality connect in reality but it never happens!

Posted by: james | May 2 2014 17:17 utc | 22

re: Pentagon to Destroy $1 Billion Worth of Ammunition [???]

Proffered reasons, offered as a means of explanation as to why large amounts US Military stockpiles of ammunition are being shuffled around/disappeared, should be looked at with a very high degree of scepticism, especially since the US-NATO are conducting so many Wars-by-Proxy at the present time

Posted by: mgm | May 2 2014 17:22 utc | 23

okie farmer #9
Re: I looked at several videos of the aftermath of the helicopter shootdowns, but nothing showing HOW there were shot down.

At least one was shot down with a MANPAD missile. I will not go looking for the original video, but it is included in this music video from a few hours ago (starts at 13 seconds).

There is some more material I and others have collected on Facebook here:

Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 2 2014 17:22 utc | 24

Petri, I still don't have any clarity about the shootdown. That was a MANPAD in your video, but it didn't show the strike. I remember copters being shot down in Afghanistan with rifle fire, and like one of the helicopters shot down today - not destroyed, with a survivor.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 17:36 utc | 25 Ukrainian military may be storming Slavyansk under drugs - activists

"The self-defense forces who are opposing the assault on Slaviansk by the Ukrainian law enforcers this Friday claim that the Ukrainian soldiers are acting strangely, as if they are under the influence of some drugs.

"These people are overexcited, I personally witnessed a few episodes of unexplained aggression and merriment. As if they are fed pills with food, or something else," a pro-federalization activist told RIA Novosti, after observing the Ukrainian security forces at the abandoned protesters' checkpoint.

Previously, social networks and media reported that psychostimulants could have been given to people on Maidan under the guise of sports nutrition.

Specialists of the Kiev detoxication clinic Socioterapiya diagnosed the Euromaidan participants with signs of withdrawal symptoms, the so-called "cold turkey," which happens when an addict stops using drugs.

Nevertheless, these people deny having ever used drugs. The method of pumping up soldiers with psychotropic substances is a long known one, in particular, it has been has been practiced by the US military.

This helps to create a feeling of euphoria and invincibility, and also allows people to function better without rest for several days."

Captagon? This is one of the drugs provided to the terrorists attacking Syria, and was also given to terrorists in Libya before that. Syrian Perspective and SANA have recorded numerous instances of this drup being found among captured terrorist supplies.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 17:37 utc | 26 Captagon® is jihadists’ main weapon

"While the Western and Gulf media lead people to believe that jihadists get their nourishment primarily from the verses of the Koran, the seizures made in Syria show that in reality, they feed on Captagon.

In two days, the Syrian Arab Army took hold of a car full of Captagon tablets and a tank truck containing a ton.

Captagon (Fenetylline hydrochloride) is an amphetamine that causes euphoria and numbs the pain. Mixed with other drugs like hashish, it constitutes the basic feed ration for the jihadists. Combatants neither feel their own suffering nor the suffering they inflict on others. Therefore, they can commit all sorts of atrocities, laughing.

Contrary to popular belief, the jihadists are not driven by religious concerns, but by the quest of immediate pleasures. They are mainly recruited among hooligans and prisoners.

Manufactured in 2011 by NATO in a laboratory in Bulgaria, Captagon is now manufactures throughout the Middle East, including the Syrian territory."

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 17:40 utc | 27

Germany is whoring out again to obama, threaten sanctions

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 18:18 utc | 28

@24: Amphetamines? What else would one expect from neo-Nazis? Adolf Hitler and Methamphetamine:

In Hitler's Wehrmacht, methamphetamine tablets branded as Pervitin were liberally distributed to German fighting troops throughout the War. Amphetamines are "power drugs" that reduce fatigue, heighten aggression, and diminish human warmth and empathy.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 18:27 utc | 29

@lysias #26:

This could just be propaganda ("just", in the sense of being made up). The Kiev fascists have nowhere near the sophistication of the Nazis. And I'm not sure if US spooks had enough time to organize Uki military/mercenaries to follow jihadi practices.

Posted by: Demian | May 2 2014 18:34 utc | 30

Have a look at this report: Ukrainian troops begin special operation in Slavyansk (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

Then observe how the western MSM spins it: Ukraine: Many insurgents killed in Slovyansk

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 18:39 utc | 31

Well as to the amphets, all sides used them in WWII. Spitfire pilots were juiced up with Benzedrine for the battle against the Luftwaffe, and later for the long bomber flights against Germany. Also British commandos used them on cross-channel raids. No surprise that they are fed into the other brands of fanatics now.

Posted by: JohnE | May 2 2014 18:57 utc | 32

The Vineyard of the Saker has a fairly comprehensive report of what happened today. Ukraine SITREP May 2nd, 17:37 UTC/Zulu: "The Mouse that Roared"

He notes that the action around Slaviansk was very limited, like previous attempts by the Kiev junta nazis and mercs, and the heavy action took place in Odessa. This RT report confirms this. 4 dead in Ukraine’s Odessa as pro- and anti-Maidan rallies clash

As before, footie fans operating with bandera nazis spreading mob violence and terror. Where ever fascists need a mob of drooling psychopaths, they can always count on the local footie fans to show up in droves to help out. The footie fan and the nazi have been shown to be natural allies time and time again. Both are made up of the worst elements of society.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 18:58 utc | 33

That yahoo article had this: "One of the helicopters was hit by a surface-to-air missile, the Ukrainian Security Service said, calling it a sophisticated weapon that undercut Russia's claims the city was simply under the control of armed locals. The agency said its forces were fighting "highly skilled foreign military men" in Slovyansk."

If "one" was hit, what about the other one?

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 19:01 utc | 34

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts in an article at titled “Washington Drives The World To War” states:

"Washington knows that the Russian government cannot stand aside while one of Washington’s puppet states attacks Russians. Yet, Washington is pushing the crisis to war.
The danger for Russia is that the Russian government will rely on diplomacy, international organizations, international cooperation, and on the common sense and self-interest of German politicians and politicians in other of Washington’s European puppet states.
For Russia this could be a fatal mistake. There is no good will in Washington, only mendacity. Russian delay provides Washington with time to build up forces on Russia’s borders and in the Black Sea and to demonize Russia with propaganda and whip up the US population into a war frenzy. The latter is already occurring."

And a little further on he says:

"In my opinion, Washington does not want the Ukraine matters settled in a diplomatic and reasonable way. It might be the case that Russia’s best move is immediately to occupy the Russian territories of Ukraine and re-absorb the territories into Russia from whence they came. This should be done before the US and its NATO puppets are prepared for war. It is more difficult for Washington to start a war when the objects of the war have already been lost."

Does anyone here have an opinion as to Roberts’ claim that Russia will be making a fatal strategic mistake if it does not immediately move to incorporate Russian territories of Ukraine?

Posted by: Phantastron | May 2 2014 19:02 utc | 35

huh. "Ukraine reported many militants killed or wounded", and "Turchynov later said the insurgents suffered significant losses, including many killed or injured." The AP editor just turns that into "Many insurgents killed" without even quote marks, like it was an established fact. That's not even up to the minimal professional standards thT AP and Reuters regard themselves as international benchmarks and exemplars for. It's interesting towards the end that they turn the welfare of all the various west network newsbabes into a story in its own right. Soon we'll get Lara Thing being raped by masked pro-Russian insurgents, know wot I mean.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 19:04 utc | 36

Phantastron, Roberts makes lots of wrong calls. He's pretty good outlining the neocon/neoliberal nexus but he is not very good on tactical OR strategic thinking.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 19:09 utc | 37

Now we're in for some widespread killing, unless jesus or buddha or someone like that walks in from the sea:

38 people die after radicals set Trade Unions House on fire in Odessa

At least 38 anti-government activists died in fire at Odessa’s Trade Unions House after suffocating with smoke or jumping out of windows of the burning building, Ukrainian Interior Ministry reported. The building was set ablaze by the pro-Kiev radicals. Earlier, a live video stream from inside the building showed disturbing scenes of supposedly dead bodies lying around the rooms with thick smoke in the air and blood stains on the floor. Most of the bodies filmed had St George ribbons attached to their clothes, distinguishing the victims as pro-Russian or anti-Kiev activists. The person filming said he counted up to 25 dead bodies on the upper floors alone. As the house was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills of several floors, possibly preparing to jump. Reports claim that those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by football ultras and the Right Sector. The riot police lines standing beside the building were apparently doing nothing to prevent the violence, the photos showed. Police officers reportedly said they cannot do anything because they were “unarmed.”

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 19:11 utc | 38

Rowan, do you suppose that the Slaviansk op was a diversion? Meaning: Saker, when he said, "that the action around Slaviansk was very limited, like previous attempts by the Kiev junta nazis and mercs, and the heavy action took place in Odessa." to me implies pretty good tactical planning.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 19:19 utc | 39

@JohnE #29:

Yeah, I guess use of amphetamines is pretty much standard practice by all militaries nowadays when they have their back against a wall. So I take back that VoR might have made that up.

Posted by: Demian | May 2 2014 19:20 utc | 40

Posted by: Phantastron | May 2, 2014 3:02:29 PM | 32

"Does anyone here have an opinion as to Roberts’ claim that Russia will be making a fatal strategic mistake if it does not immediately move to incorporate Russian territories of Ukraine?"

Yeah, the Russians shouldn't do it, unless it becomes a dire necessity to save lives, not a pre-emptive move to fend off a speculated NATO invasion. So far, the west has been trying to get Russia militarily involved in the Ukraine, but they have made no serious move to actually have NATO invade. The mob violence in Odessa is a more serious threat to the people in the Ukraine than NATO troops (or Ukrainian troops) are. if this kind of mob violence spreads, as I'm sure the west is doing everything it can to make sure it does, that could lead to Russian intervention. But Russian occupation of hotbeds of this violence could also give the bandera nazis/footie fans another reason to continue their terrorist activities in less open and overt ways. We will have to wait and see if the west manages to set the country on fire this way. It's too early still, to tell how this stage in the west's strategy will pan out.

I still think the Russians, by not moving into the Ukraine are taking the correct approach.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 19:21 utc | 41

@blowback: you'd be surprised how few Ukrainians, Nazi or otherwise, served in the post-independence military. They bribe their way out of serving.

Posted by: sid_finster | May 2 2014 19:25 utc | 42

Also with regard to Robert's view that Russia should annex the Ukraine, or regions in the east, is that there is probably not the sort of consensus there to be part of Russia, as there was in Crimea. I'm sure such a move to incorporate part or all of the Ukraine back into Russia would still meet with a lot of resistance from Ukrainians wanting to remain independent. It could even heighten anti-Russian feeling, and further divide Ukrainans.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 19:32 utc | 43

The old farts are calling for a federated Finlandized Ukraine. I agree this is the only sensible way to avoid a hot war between NATO and Russia which will inevitable end in a nuclear holocaust. That Kissinger and Brzezinski are ignored by the Elite is proof that they want regime change and a destabilized Russia.

We are descending into insanity as Western and Eastern Oligarchs pound at each other’s heads while stomping to death the people underneath. The world is lurching towards Armageddon.

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 2 2014 19:35 utc | 44

THe BBC has a small, very sparse report on the fire:

Dozens killed in Odessa clashes

At least 31 people have been killed in a fire in an official building amid violence in the city of Odessa in south-west Ukraine, local police say.

The deaths came as pro-Russian protesters clashed with Ukrainian government supporters in the city.

A far cry from the RT story.

Officials said some people were overwhelmed by smoke and others died after they jumped from the building.

Earlier President Oleksandr Turchynov said many separatists had been killed in a government offensive in Sloviansk.

Activists have seized scores of government buildings and detained observers in eastern Ukraine.

The fire broke out in Odessa's Trade Unions House, the regional office of Ukraine's interior ministry said. It did not give details of how the blaze started.

Earlier, at least three people were killed in clashes between the pro-Russian and pro-Kiev protesters in the city - the first eruption of violence in the south after weeks of mounting unrest in Ukraine's east.

Posted by: William Bowles | May 2 2014 19:44 utc | 45

Rowan, do you suppose that the Slaviansk op was a diversion? Meaning: Saker, when he said, "that the action around Slaviansk was very limited, like previous attempts by the Kiev junta nazis and mercs, and the heavy action took place in Odessa." to me implies pretty good tactical planning. Posted by: okie farmer | May 2, 2014 3:19:44 PM | 36
I haven't read what he has to say, yet. I doubt it because I don't think the physical diversion of what I might as well call leftists from Odessa to Slavyansk would be any greater than the diversion of rightists. The leftists, to call them that again, don't have superior means of transport compared to the rightists, by any means. So it would not physically make sense to talk about their being physically decoyed out of Odessa to Slavyansk, thinking Odessa secure. One of the keynotes of the leftist revolt, to call it that yet again, has been people defending their own immediate localities, with very limited armed assistance, rather than flying squads of fighters rushing hither & yon in response to attacks. People fight where they are, and the armed help they do receive takes the form of small squads who arrive and stay, presumably for the duration. That's my impression, anyway.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 19:45 utc | 46

@32 I think he is being dramatic here. I think Russia needs to bide time.

World opinion is important. If Russia moves now, it might hurt public opinion of it in BRICS nations

Obviously western nations are going to hate it whatever it does, but Russia cant afford to make itself look bad to the BRICS. Or BICS since R obviously is out of the picture but the acronym falls apart that way.

If Russia intervenes now, it will look like an 'agressor'. It needs to wait until there are actual massacres, then it can move.

Cynical perhaps, but not nearly as cynical as anything the west does, and who knows? Theres still a chance this can all be resolved by the East Ukrainians themselves. We dont know how much fight West Ukraine has, they might give in and call Uncle soon.

The way I see it, the West is trying to get Russia to take action on purpose. It seems to me like obvious bait.

PCR is falling for it, good man that he is, but Putin is too wise for this. He knows sweet bait when he smells it. He will only take a grab at it when he knows he can get it without triggering serious repercussions, like he did in Crimea.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 2 2014 19:47 utc | 47

Rowan @35
What took place in Odessa is exemplary of fascist takeovers. A Trades Union HQ was surrounded and set on fire by fascists. As a result dozens have been killed or injured.
Is there anyone calling himself or herself a member of the "left" who does not now understand what this is all about?
And, as has been the case for a century once more all the bourgeois institutions, the political parties, the governments and the military alliances are backing the murderous fascists.
Ukraine has the potential to become what Spain and Vietnam were to earlier generations.

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 19:50 utc | 48


By 'Pro Kiev Radicals' RT means Neo Nazis.

Great. Nazis burning buildings. Again.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 2 2014 19:50 utc | 49

I looked at saker's latest and he wrote it before this happened. He is not a great one for running updates. So I stand by my opinion that it would make no sense to talk about 'diversion' of leftists from Odessa to Slavyansk. In any case, it's 550 km, IIRC. That's about 10 hours drive, under these conditions.

Bevin, just one thing: they were damn fools to trap themselves in there, with no pre-ascertained means of emergency egress, whether through back doors if not surrounded or over roofs if surrounded. They must have gathered there spontaneously, out of sentiment. In other words, none of them was thinking tactically, at all.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 19:56 utc | 50

I had the same thought. A wooden building.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 20:03 utc | 51

Brzezinski must think Ukraine is lost to the west. He would never advocate finlandization unless he though the likely outcome was even worse (from his russophobic perspective).

Posted by: shargash | May 2 2014 20:04 utc | 52

Still western media persistently call the kidnapped military inspectors OSCE-staff. Obviously they know what's what by now, they even have talking heads stating the facts in interviews, yet the headlines continue to lie. Shameless bastard propagandists. BBC/AJ/and every stinking national tv-channel in europe.

Posted by: Alexander | May 2 2014 20:04 utc | 53

Gotta agree with scalawag @16 - Chomsky's line that the annexation of Crimea was a violation of law and treaties, and then compare it to the US occupation of Guantanamo is absurd on many levels. When you get lost in the legalisms -- and maybe Chomsky was just acting as a ironist -- the annexation of Crimea crosses a "red line", whereas the invasion of Iraq or war in Vietnam did not!?

In any case, the real point is what is omitted here. In fact, the US has violated the sovreignity of the Ukraine for years, beginning way back in Soviet times, and as far back, at least, as the end of WWII. Covert funding of psyops and other covert actions, via recruitment of fascist-nationalists like Mykola Lebed as CIA assets, is well-documented, though rarely written up. Many millions of dollars, if not billions, were spent to destabilize and intervene in Ukraine, long understood by US rulers as a strategic country on the road to occupying or at least containing Russia. With the USSR gone, we can now see the naked nationalism (imperialism) that was behind the anti-communist Cold War rhetoric.

Whetted by the fact they could militarily intervene with a free hand around the world, butchering millions in the process in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, etc., the US and their allies (sometimes shaky allies) want to remove what they see as their two main obstacles, Russia and China. As a result, we see the US acting belligerently against both, uniting with reactionary forces while proclaiming they fight for democracy, though the fact they torture and unite with fascists belies such fantasies.

I wish I could see a good way out of this.

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | May 2 2014 20:06 utc | 54

Some real crazy statement by swedish FM
laughing at the dead basically

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 20:07 utc | 55

Posted by: ProPeace | May 2 2014 20:07 utc | 56

Fucking Duff again. He pulls all this stuff out of his ass.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 2 2014 20:14 utc | 57


There is a international law known as Force Majeure. The understanding of force majeure in international law, as well as in many nations, is that it must pass three tests:

1- Externality The defendant must have nothing to do with the event's happening.

2- Unpredictability If the event could be foreseen, the defendant is obligated to have prepared for it. Being unprepared for a foreseeable event leaves the defendant culpable.

3- Irresistibility The consequences of the event must have been unpreventable.

Posted by: HAHA | May 2 2014 20:16 utc | 58

Now kiev regime attack Kramatorsk, seems like the nazis are on drugs today, going all day/night?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 20:23 utc | 60

Italian soldier in ukraine?! Blackwater?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 20:26 utc | 61

"use the term "rebels" to describe the federalists."

Well, no worse than your all-purpose rhetorical flummery that everyone in Kiev is a "fascist."

Posted by: slothrop | May 2 2014 20:29 utc | 62

I think there are two aspects to the Russian annexation of the Crimea. First is the great power, national security aspect. If Russia seized the Crimea solely to protect its naval base, IMO it would have been illegal, if understandable. If the US found itself in that position, there is no question the US would do whatever it took to protect its bases. Look at Cuba or Diego Garcia (one of the lesser Anglo-American crimes against humanity).

Second is the humanitarian aspect. The people of the Crimea exercised their right of self-determination and asked to join the RF. It doesn't really matter if it was against international law; states make law to protect themselves, and rights always trump laws. It also doesn't matter if the Russians suggested the idea to the Crimean people or even agitated for it. It only matters whether it was the will of the Crimean people, and every evidence is that a super-majority of Crimeans wanted to join Russia. It is disappointing that Chomsky confuses the two aspects.

Posted by: shargash | May 2 2014 20:30 utc | 63

Rowan Berkeley 47 said:

"He is not a great one for running updates."

Jesus Fucking Christ, man, some of us still have real lives!

Posted by: john | May 2 2014 20:30 utc | 64

Quite a collection of rightwing nut cases bellying up to the bar these days.


Posted by: slothrop | May 2 2014 20:34 utc | 65

The Odessa massacre

This is how a pro-Erdogan Turkish "Anadolu Agency" newspaper reports the event: "At least 38 dead after pro-Russia militants set a building ablaze in Odessa, Ukraine."

Posted by: Virgile | May 2 2014 20:36 utc | 66


svoboda, right sektor arent facists? Nutball!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 20:38 utc | 67

@Virgile #63:

The Wikipedia article "2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine" quotes Voice of America

Posted by: Demian | May 2 2014 20:42 utc | 68

The Odessa massacre: The victims were pro-russians (UK media version)

Dozens killed by smoke as Ukraine moves closer to civil war
Ukraine teetered on the brink of civil war tonight as dozens of protesters were killed by smoke fumes in a night of carnage in the Black Sea port city of Odessa.

By: From Will Stewart, in Odessa
Published: Fri, May 2, 2014

Separatists holed up in a trade union building were forced to jump from windows after it was set on fire by pro-Ukrainians.

There were "many bodies lying on the ground covered with Ukraine flags", reported URIAN news agency which cited emergency sources saying "not less than 30 people are dead".

Another account claimed 38 were killed, many by smoke fumes but others suffered bullet wounds.

Posted by: Virgile | May 2 2014 20:48 utc | 69

And Ha'aretz in Israel is reporting more than 40 dead in fire in Odessa. More than 40 killed in fire, clashes in Ukraine's Odessa. Well, that's the headline. If you look at the story, you see the story reports 38 dead in the fire and more than 40 total dead in Odessa.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 20:49 utc | 70

FOCUS News Ticker gives more details:

21.12 Uhr: Nach den blutigen Zusammenstößen zwischen prorussischen und Kiew-treuen Demonstranten in Odessa sind bei einem Gebäudebrand möglicherweise mehrere Dutzend Menschen getötet worden. Das ukrainische Innenministerium spricht von 38 Toten, wobei 30 von ihnen durch Rauchgasvergiftungen und acht weitere an Verletzungen gestorben seien, die sie sich durch panische Sprünge aus Fenstern zugezogen hätten. Das Feuer sei auf "kriminelle Brandstiftung" zurückzuführen.

Well, if the Ukrainian Interior Ministry is actually talking about "criminal arson," I guess that's something. Unless they blame the pro-Russians.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 20:54 utc | 71

I might be wrong about Russian intervention. It might have started. The Vineyard of the Saker has a new sitrep up about the Odessa massacre. In this he brought attention to a Spanish twitter user: Ukraine SITREP update - May 2nd, 20:14 UTC/Zulu: massacre in Odessa

"Also, and with some reluctance, I want to inform you about one interesting but unverified source (caveat emptor!): there is a Spanish speaking air traffic controller in Kiev who regularly tweets info about the events in the Ukraine here:

Now I personally never use Twitter (or Facebook), but a reader has called my attention to this guys who seems to have some pretty good information. According to him, some "military in Kiev" had requested the help of Russia, after which some Russian cargo plane has flown near Donetsk. According to him, radio intercepts indicate Russian paratroopers. The aircraft then turned around. What that a para drop? Finally, he reports that Ukrainian military aircraft have been challenged by Russian interceptors and have had to withdraw. Now, since all this is based on radio communication it could be fake or just somebody trying to create a panic. But for those of you who understand Spanish I wanted to pass you the info so you call follow this directly on Twitter."

Spainbuca's latest tweets seem to indicate (from Google translation) a second cargo aircraft flew near Donetsk and one had headed towards Odessa.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 20:54 utc | 72

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov’s Trip To Latin America May Be Aimed At Irking U.S.

Russia has been trying to further its influence in Latin America for a few years now. Trade between Moscow and the region has grown exponentially in the last decade, reaching $16.2 billion in 2012 from $5.5 billion in 2000, according to numbers from the Sistema Económico Latinoamericano y del Caribe (Latin American Economic System, or SELA).

Russia has also expressed its interest in establishing military bases in Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela. “We are close to signing agreements,” Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in February. “Russia is looking to expand its global influence.”

Posted by: Virgile | May 2 2014 20:54 utc | 73

Guardian story indicates Right Sector was involved in the storming of the trade unions building in Odessa:

"At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance," said one pro-Ukrainian fighter, 20, who said he was a member of the extreme nationalist group Right Sector.

"They had guns and they were shooting … Some people jumped from the roof, they died obviously," he said.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 20:58 utc | 74

Posted by: Virgile | May 2, 2014 4:54:57 PM | 70

"Russia has also expressed its interest in establishing military bases in Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela."

Read soon after that was reported that Nicaragua announced Russian bases in Nicaragua would be against their current constitution so bases would not be possible at that time, or something similar to that effect.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 20:59 utc | 75

The Guardian story spoke about the pro-Russians in the building tossing Molotov cocktails at the pro-Kiev attackers, so somebody may eventually say that is what caused the fire. But the story of El Pais is quite clear that the pro-Kiev forces set fire to the building:

El Gobierno interino de Kiev no solo tiene dificultades para atajar la rebelión prorrusa en el este, como demostró la desigual ofensiva de este viernes en Slaviansk; también le estallan en las manos nuevos focos de violencia, como el que este viernes arrasó un edificio en Odesa (sur), con un balance de 38 muertos, según fuentes policiales. Manifestantes prorrusos que habían reventado una marcha por la unidad de Ucrania se refugiaron en un edificio oficial, denominado Casa de los Sindicatos, al que los partidarios de Kiev prendieron fuego. Pocas horas antes, otras cuatro personas habían perdido la vida en choques registrados durante la manifestación.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 21:07 utc | 76 Радикалы позируют с сожженными заживо ополченцами

(translation using Google)

"Radicals posing with burned alive militias

LifeNews published the first video from the burned house unions in Odessa, which killed 38 people.

The footage can be seen inside the building go Maidana supporters who torched house and trade unions, and remove the bodies. In this survey accompanied catty comments, and they killed cynically called "squints."

May 2 in the afternoon there was a confrontation between Odessa Antimaydana activists on the one hand and the fans of Odessa and Kharkiv football clubs and radicals of the "right sector", as well as activists Evromaydana - on the other. As a result of the confrontation turned into a real massacre.

On-site collisions several thousand radicals, many of whom were armed, shouted: "Glory to Ukraine!", "Death to the enemies", "Moskal knives." Radicals used firecrackers, smoke grenades, batons and Molotov cocktails, via which they set fire to the building House of Trade Unions.

Total, according to Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine in a fire killed 38 people : 8 people jumped from the windows of the building and broke another 30 poisoned by carbon monoxide, another 50 injured, 10 of them police officers."

Video also.

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 21:14 utc | 77

BBC world service said both sides were tossing Molotov cocktails, didn't attribute either group for the fire. I'm inclined to believe El Pais, why? because throwing petrol bombs around by the people in the building would be more than foolish - suicidal.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 2 2014 21:20 utc | 78 Снайперы открыли стрельбу по мирным жителям в Славянске

(cleaned up Google translation)

"Snipers opened fire on civilians in Slovyansk

In neighboring Andreevka is a fierce battle between the militias and fighters of the "right sector."

As the correspondent of LifeNews reports, Slovyansk empty, people are afraid to go out. From rooftops snipers are aimed fire at anything that moves.

- In Slovyansk fighting resumed. Main threat snipers. I hope I can get to the hotel. However, it is not clear how this can be done. As for the armor, it is not in the city - said our reporter.

According to him, the snipers shoot first tracer bullets, and then opened fire. Likely shooters are radicals from the "right sector", which entered the day by pretending to be civilians."

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 21:24 utc | 79

RT report both says it was the pro-Kiev people who set the fire and indicates that the Right Sector was involved:

The Trade Unions House was set on fire by pro-Kiev radicals after they surrounded and destroyed the tent camp of anti-government activists that stood in front of the building on Odessa’s Kulikovo Field Square. It was torched in a storming attempt after some of the anti-Maidan activists rallying in the square barricaded themselves inside the building.

Thirty of the victims were found on the floors of the building having apparently suffocated to death with smoke. Eight more died after jumping out of the burning Trade Union House’s windows, according to police.

Earlier reports of the clashes in Odessa said that both sides used Molotov cocktails and, allegedly, gunfire. Part of the pro-Maidan activists reportedly bore insignia of the radical Right Sector group.

Posted by: lysias | May 2 2014 21:25 utc | 80

Of course its the right sektor that was behind this,
lets say somone from anti-kiev groups dropped a molotov IN the house, you really believe they couldnt run away from such 1 case fire incident?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 21:29 utc | 81


FBI warns flow of US militants into Syria growing, another 9/11 could happen...

This public service announcement looks like the US is either covering their ass or priming the pump for the possibility!

After decades of destruction globally, the US has made a lot of enemies, if they could, they would spark the gasoline, knowing it would likely ignite a US Russian confrontation.

Sorry, Can not dismiss Duff!

Posted by: HAHA | May 2 2014 21:35 utc | 82

English speaking mercs confirmed to be involved in the attacks on Ukrainian people. US, EU’s support of Kiev’s tactics blocks peaceful resolution of Ukraine crisis – Russia

"The West has cut all paths to a peaceful solution of the Ukrainian crisis by supporting the Kiev authorities and their violent crackdown on protests in the eastern part of the country, Russia’s envoy Vitaly Churkin told the UN Security Council.

Catastrophic consequences are inevitable if Kiev authorities do not stop their “criminal venture,” Churkin stressed at the emergency UNSC meeting summoned by Moscow on Friday.

He pointed out that Kiev has flagrantly violated its obligations that were established under the Geneva agreement on April 17. The "punitive measures" carried out by the government are evidence of Kiev’s inability and unwillingness to fulfill these obligations, he added.

“Particular concern is raised by data that, during the punitive operation of the Ukrainian military and illegal ultra-nationalist groups, English speech was heard on air, and among the assailants on Slavyansk, English speaking foreigners were seen,” the Russian UN envoy said."

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 21:36 utc | 83

Chomsky at #6:

First of all, it isn't illegal for a part of a country to break away and democratically decide to declare independence from the rest of the country. International law doesn't take sides in such stuff. So, Crimea declaring independence was not illegal under international law.

Second, it isn't illegal under international law for one country to democratically decide to unite with another country. So Crimea's choice to unite with Russia was not illegal under international law.

Okay, Chomsky is very old, so I forgive his recent b.s. He's more or less 'trotted out' to say stuff now, and I think we all know he's not the independent actor/thinker he was ten or more years ago. It will happen to all of us ...

Posted by: fairleft | May 2 2014 21:37 utc | 84 Ukrainian army launches assault on Kramatorsk

"Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.

“The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.

Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military’s special operation has resumed in the nearby town of Slavyansk. The headquarters of the people’s self-defense is under snipers’ fire, according to Itar-Tass. There are reports of injuries among protesters.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said that two military personnel were killed on Friday in the village of Andreyevka, not far from Slavyansk, Donetsk region. According to the ministry, they came under an attack with the use of small arms.

“The violent military confrontation is ongoing. To date, information about the deaths of two Ukrainian servicemen has been confirmed,” the ministry said in a statement, as quoted by Interfax-Ukraine."

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 21:39 utc | 85

I question russians spying in ukraine, they seems to be 2 steps behind all the time, Ithought they were better than this really.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 2 2014 21:47 utc | 86

NATO Declares Russia Nr. 1 Adversary, Starts Troops Buildup

No surprise here if you followed my diaries about decisionmaking by NATO instead of in the European capitals. The U.S. - Russia relations have deterioted in a rapid pace. It follows many speeches and announcements at the Atlantic Council in Washington DC and NATO HQ in Brussels.

Posted by: Oui | May 2 2014 21:59 utc | 87

The Kerry bot has apparently been switched over to its "bitchy New York waiter" setting. Kerry's refusal to discuss Ukraine is irresponsible approach - Russia's FM

"Kerry's refusal to discuss in a telephone talk with Lavrov the situation in southeast Ukraine indicated the irresponsible approach of the United States, a Russian Foreign Ministry source said.

US Secretary of State John Kerry asked for a telephone talk with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Syria, but when the U.S. side knew that Russia proposed to include the Ukrainian issue, Washington postponed the talk, the source said.

"Such an approach clearly indicates that the American colleagues are not interested to look for a way out of the explosive situation fraught with unpredictable consequences and actually play into the hands of the current leadership in Kiev," the diplomat noted."

Posted by: scalawag | May 2 2014 22:01 utc | 88

According to this, the troop buildup may have begun much earlier (note the tanks going through Vienna on April 7th, eastwards.) One wonders where they are now?

Posted by: Austrian | May 2 2014 22:01 utc | 89

I write about the Odessa tragedy and the Western media's deliberate 'confusion' on who caused the fire here: At least 31 die in Odessa after pro-regime rioters set trade union building ablaze.

Posted by: fairleft | May 2 2014 22:21 utc | 90

Eurosceptic with full support for Israel and nationalism meets Sophie&Co on Russia Today:

Dutch MP Geert Wilders: EU cares about expansion, not Ukraine

Grrr, a first for Wilders making sense … I need a break.

Posted by: Oui | May 2 2014 22:27 utc | 91

" worse than your all-purpose rhetorical flummery that everyone in Kiev is a "fascist."

Nobody is suggesting this, except the fascists themselves. What is undeniable is that the Kiev regime has a fascist activist core.
This is not surprising: Bankers and socialites hoping for invitations to the US Embassy, corrupt oligarchs and political speculators never risk their own necks. The fascists, on the other hand, live to kill those they hate.
The situation in Kiev then is very clear: the junta, supported by the IMF, NATO, with special interest from the fascistic neighbouring Baltic, Polish and Swedish governments, the western media (running interference, publishing lies, confusing evidence), are paying the fascists, including mercenaries and intelligence service personnel, (MI6,Mossad, CIA etc) death squads. And snipers.

The Monroe Doctrine, updated by Bush, has come to eastern Europe: tremble in fear before us or we will kill you and your families.

Indonesia, Chile, Iraq, Afghanistan and now Ukraine.

The sick thing is that those responsible, in Washington, are patiently watching, from a safe distance, to see how many children they will have to kill, how many women they will have to rape, how many community centres full of civilians they will have to incinerate, before Russia heeds the cries of the victims. And hands them a few fat talking points for the propaganda mill to grind up.

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 22:27 utc | 92

I should add that "Those responsible" are headed by Barack Obama. If any one man is responsible for, inter alia, the snipers in Maidan Sq and the arsonists in Odessa it is he. His step father would be proud of him.

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 22:33 utc | 93


Read your article, well done.

Language differences makes it difficult for us in the west to understand what is taking place in the videos. RT needs to run an English translation on the bottom of the screen as people talk. The west knows this and takes full advantage.

They analyze the videos and modify their spin of the events only as far as what is plausible from the videos.

Posted by: HAHA | May 2 2014 22:36 utc | 94

Wtf with the Godon Duff piece? Obama is the POTUS!!! He probably helped Bush set up the shadow govt within the shadow govt that well he spent at the WH with Bush before moving in, an effort to keep convincing liberals he's a swell guy just sandbagged by Republicans every step of the way, and in no way responsible for, oh, I don't know LIBYA and SYRIA and every other war mongering, Wall Streeting, neocon neoliberal fascist corporatist move he makes, thus neutering lefty opposition to the permanent war state. O-pologists. Nothing worse. Blaming Bush 6+ years later, you gotta be kidding me. And Chomsky can suck it too, while I'm at it, establishment contrarian that he is.

Posted by: Colinjames | May 2 2014 22:41 utc | 95

92: Chomsky's horrid book on JFK was the clincher. ("JFK would have been just as bad as LBJ because, and who cares who shot him?')

Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 2 2014 22:55 utc | 96

Posted by: bevin | May 2 2014 22:56 utc | 97


In an article titled, The American Deep State, Deep Events, and Off-the-Books Financing, written by, Peter Dale Scott. Scott writes, "... the deep state and its overworld are, and to some degree always have been, supranational. In the 1950s, for example, if Allen Dulles as CIA Director wanted to fly a U-2 over Russia on a certain day, and Eisenhower said no, Dulles would simply turn to his British counterparts in MI6 to get permission from Macmillan, and Dulles would get his way."

Duff OK: Obama Not so much

Duff has the right idea, someone else is overriding the controls!

Posted by: HAHA | May 2 2014 22:56 utc | 98

They must be pretty depraved,this coup leadership,to ally themselves with US,at this point in time.I mean,isn't the blood trail enough to reveal our utter dishonor?I'm sure even the Ukrainian nationalist rank and file don't like US,but I guess their hate for Russia supersedes it.
Squints;Racial?Mongol genetic influence?The Mongols laid waste to Ukraine also,did they not?

Posted by: dahoit | May 2 2014 23:17 utc | 99

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