Ukraine: Continuing Thread …

May 5, 2014

There was little significant news from Ukraine today. Fighting around various checkpoints outside of Slovyansk continued with casualties reported on both sides and of civilians but no movement of the lines.

I do expect some more serious diplomacy over the next days but the continued amateurish behavior of the State Department, discussed here, lets me believe that there will be no progress in solving the situation without more conflict.

Allegedly: A ~~polite green man from Russia~~ ~~Putin's Spetsnaz special force enforcer~~ Ukrainian woman awaiting fascists in Slovyansk.

Posted by b on May 5, 2014 at 18:35 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Nothing good comes from the state of denial department.

Posted by: jo6pac | May 5 2014 18:58 utc | 1

maybe she can find a green uniform to wear. i am sure some benevolent cia agent can give her one..

Posted by: james | May 5 2014 19:02 utc | 2

b
You are stupid, you can clearly see she is spetnaz, in fact that is putin’s neice, how cant you know that? In fact putin personally took the photo in Ukraine!(irony)

Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2014 19:17 utc | 3

@3
Niece? You lie: It is Putins daughter, and she is here personally commanding the Russian military!

Posted by: Massinissa | May 5 2014 19:47 utc | 4

Are the bodies of the victims in Odessa going to undergo forensic testing?
This is critical.
Many looked they were shot and burned afterwards.
Many are burned in rooms where there is no sign of fire damage.
What the hell is going on?
These bodies must be examined.

Posted by: plantman | May 5 2014 19:48 utc | 5

Link to West waging media war against Russia to shift responsibility for Ukraine – German gov’t consultant
“The US and Europe are using media to shift their responsibility for Ukrainian crisis on Russia and fortunately there are such news outlets as Rossiya Segodnya and RT telling people the truth, Christoph HA6rstel [Hörstel], a Government Consultant and Publicist in Germany, told RIA Novosti Monday. “We have in fact a pre-running media war with lying against Russia and this is just a cover-up for a kind of economic war that is going on.
Fortunately we have RIA Novosti, fortunately we have Voice of Russia [both outlets have now merged into Rossiya Segodnya International News Agency] Fortunately we do have Russia Today, but that is not enough to tell the people who are definitely completely misinformed by our media on the real situation in Ukraine, to wake them up and make them withdraw their political support of these warmongers sitting in Berlin, Paris and London today and of course mainly in Washington,” he said.
The US is supporting the illegal government in Kiev and its punitive operation against protesters because Russia is developing too well for Washington’s interests, the consultant said. The US also doesn’t want to see Moscow having good relationship with Europe, he added. “They are pushing down the ruble, they are pushing down the important economic activities, they are trying to hurt Russia financially, economically,” Christoph HA6rstel [Hörstel] said.
As the result of this policy, Washington is sending military aid and CIA agents to Ukraine and letting more blood be spilled, he added. “And now we have in fact fascist groups being incorporated in a so-called anti-terror mission, which is for my feeling is terror mission against the people’s defense forces, for example, in Slaviansk, and Odessa as well,” he underlined.”
Back in Dec ’13 Hörstel claimed the west was engaged in regime change in the Ukraine:
Link to Western countries trying to fabricate regime change in Ukraine – German gov’t consultant
And as later revelations proved, he was correct.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 19:50 utc | 6

Balkanization is proceeding slowly but according to the playbook. Putin’s Russia has been invited to join in the carnage, feast and spoils. So far, he’s playing his part quite well. Meanwhile, his Russian Oligarch friends watch care-freely from their mansions in Florida. Too bad no one’s burning down their houses.
Burning Down The House

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 5 2014 19:56 utc | 7

@5
“The interim Ukrainian authorities are hiding from the public the true death toll in Friday’s tragedy in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa, which actually claimed 116 lives, a member of the Odessa regional council told RIA Novosti Monday. “According to our data, there were 116 people killed in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa. Killed, not just “dead”. “We don’t use the word “burned” or “suffocated”, because autopsies are not being performed, since the people have bullet wounds to the head,” Vadim Savenko said.”
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_05/Kiev-concealed-deaths-in-Odessa-fire-116-killed-Ukrainian-lawmaker-6461/

Posted by: Massinissa | May 5 2014 20:04 utc | 8

According to the Vineyard of the Saker, the bandera nazis have made their most determined attack yet on the defenders in the east.
Link to Ukraine SITREP – May 5th, 17:37 UTC/Zulu: this time the junta means business
“From the reports coming out of the eastern Ukraine it appears that a real, coordinated, attack has been launched on Slaviansk. The attackers use the following tactic: a group of men in plainclothes (Right Sector? Foreign mercenaries? SBU?) attack a checkpoint pinning down the defenders. The checkpoint is then surrounded on both sides by armored personnel carriers and heavily armed infantry. Mi-24 helicopters approach from the air and a heavy joint attack of all forces is launched. Assault-rifles, 23/30mm guns, unguided/guided rockets, anti-tank weapons, mortars, snipers and grenade-launchers are engaged. At this point the defenders have no other option but to try to withdraw under fire and the checkpoint is taken.
This time around the junta means business.
That is not to say that the defenders do not resist. At least one Mi-24 has been reported shot down by machine-gun fire over a river and the junta has confirmed 4 fatalities on its side (compared to 10 fatalities amongst the defenders).”
Each attack, the bandera nazis use more force and they use greater indiscriminate fire on civilians. It seems to me that the main thrust of these attacks is to try and draw Russia into the Ukraine. Each time that fails, the west increases the scope of their terrorism.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 20:07 utc | 9

@ catcher in the lie
Who’s inviting “Putin’s Russia” (is there a worse thing than Obummer’s America?)
to join in the carnage and how? And what is he playing? Oh – not to forget his
oligarch friends. Why are you smearing around here instead of cleaning up your own
mess?!

Posted by: slirs | May 5 2014 20:12 utc | 10

The bandera nazis may be planning a major assault overnight or tuesday am against Slavyansk.
Link to Журналист: К Славянску идет колонна техники длиной в десяток километров
(Yandex translation)

Journalist: Slavyansk is a column of vehicles with length in a dozen kilometers
To Slavyansk, Donetsk region of Ukraine there is a column equipment, including artillery, long dozen kilometers, said the journalist Dmitry Steshin with reference to a German colleague.
“Friend, a German journalist who the third day can’t get in Slavyansk and graze on the same block, reports briefly: “From Raisins [town Изюма] there is a column technology [mechanized, armor] with a dozen kilometers in length, many artillery, hold on!” Hold on, this will never happen!” – said Stesin in Twitter.

Life also is reporting on this bandera nazi column, and info about the day’s events.
Link to Колонна бронетехники ВС Украины движется в сторону Славянска
(Yandex translation)

A column of armored vehicles of the armed forces of Ukraine is moving towards Slavyansk
In the evening of the fifth of may at the entrance to the Slavyansk was spotted a column of heavy armored vehicles and troops.
Ukrainian military continues to tighten the ring around the city, but the militia still keep their positions and not allowed the national guard under and “Right branch” in the territory of the settlement.
During the whole day on the outskirts of Slavyansk were armed clashes. In the morning in the Semenovka Ukrainian military used artillery against civilians. Later the Kyiv authorities have sent a heavy military equipment for the destruction of the blocking elements at the entrance to the Slavyansk: two helicopters opened fire on the train, closing the road vehicles. However, militia repulsed and knocked out one of the helicopters. The pilots managed to take the car away from the fire, but to fly to the aerodrome they could not.
It later emerged that shot down the helicopter was destroyed by the fighters of the Ukrainian air force. According to militia, the military took this decision to the technology has not given to the supporters of federalization.
Right in Slavyansk the situation remains tense. The streets were deserted. All offices and shops are closed. Male population is building barricades. In different districts of the city heard the shots.
According to the headquarters of the people’s militia, Slavyansk managed to get about 30 militants “Right sector”. The self-defense activists believe that these are the same nationalists, who previously worked in Cherkasy region. Militias are preparing to provocations by radicals.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 20:36 utc | 11

The propaganda war is undoubtedly going in the right direction. There are articles all over the MSM contradicting the official, but incredible, narrative.
Among interesting signs of the way the winds are blowing are articles at Common Dreams by Parry and Anatole Lieven and three pieces at Counterpunch.
There is a good piece about the increasing impotence of the MSM at Open Democracy, too.
Just as happened over the false flag “sarin” attacks in Syria the truth has come out relatively quickly. Quick enough to interrupt the war planning.
The MSM simply no longer has the power that it used to have both to frame debates initially and to fence them in, thereafter.
In many senses the internet had replaced the old left alternative media, the old Socialist Dailies and weeklies, for example. Since they too restricted discussion, sometimes within ludicrously narrow boundaries, the current dispensation, in which there is almost freedom of speech on the net, is a real improvement.
For the imperialists this is just one more proof that capitalism and freedom are totally incompatible. Their propaganda techniques, developed over generations to work through media, easily controlled by commerce and license, is now obsolescent.
As Parry’s Truthdig story points out the NY Times is now evidently distrusted by a majority of those who read it. So, judging by the comments (always skewed in favour of government) is The Guardian.
If as seems likely the current US strategy in Ukraine is to provoke Russia into intervening, by carrying out the sort of massacres the west accused Ghadaffi of nothing more than thinking about, the strategy has not just failed but blown up in their faces.
The US has already had the best coverage it will get of its role in the Ukraine, from now on the truth will start pouring out, thanks to intercepted phone conversations, hacked emails, video monitoring of all that occurs and, finally, the desperate attempts of the MSM to salvage credibility by “discovering” stories that they had previously ignored.
And today the Russians published a scholarly, well referenced White Paper detailing the events which have taken place in the Ukraine: a stark contrast to the cheap demagogy and falsification that Washington spews out to an international audience of gum chewing red-baiting thugs that only exists in its fevered imagination and the gated neighbourhoods around it.

Posted by: bevin | May 5 2014 20:40 utc | 12

There rumours of sightings of significant Russian air armor over Simferol yesterday. Is there any likelihood that the Russians might bomb the armoured columns if it becomes necessary? This would probably obviate the need to send in troops, and it would, as they sau, send a message to Kiev, American style. Drones, of course, would be an even better message.

Posted by: Knut | May 5 2014 20:51 utc | 13

Yesterday in Odessa, protestors stormed the interior ministry that was holding pro-federation prisoners. These were survivors of the Odessa massacre, kidnapped by the junta. The junta released around 60 of these survivors, another 40+ were taken to someplace in central Ukraine. Some of the local police refused to defend the interior ministry building from the protestors demanding release of these junta held survivors. This is video of those police throwing away their riot shields and walking away.
Link to Одесский “Беркут” – сложил щиты и демонстративно ушел из оцепления
(Yandex translation)

Odessa “Berkut” – folded sheets and demonstratively left the cordon
04.05.2014 In Odessa stormed the building of the interior Ministry with a demand to release activists intimidades policemen threw shields and refused to defend the building of the police Department.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 20:54 utc | 14

Earlier, the deaths of 20 pro-Russian forces were reported according to Dutch news agency ANP. Here is a second source via Kyiv Post.

As many as 20 separatist casualties in Sloviansk firefight
(May 5, 2014) – Quoting a rebel commander in Sloviansk, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that pro-Russian separatist forces may have suffered as many as 20 casualties in a firefight with Ukrainian troops this afternoon.
The Wall Street Journal quotes the commander as saying “The fighting is still under way. We have managed to stop the enemy from advancing deep into the city but it was with great difficulty. We have a lot of victims—maybe more than 20 people.”
Igor Strelkov, one of the separatist leaders in eastern Ukraine, told the Russian state media outlet RIA Novosti that “We lost around 10, including peaceful residents, and 20-25 were wounded.” Strelkov said that Ukrainian troops suffered fewer casualties because “they all have armor.” — Isaac Webb
RT: Dozens injured, fatalities on both sides in ongoing military op in Slavyansk (VIDEO)

Posted by: Oui | May 5 2014 20:55 utc | 15

Posted by: Massinissa | May 5, 2014 4:04:24 PM | 8
The slaying of these people is beyond criminal.
It’s evil.

Posted by: Tea | May 5 2014 20:58 utc | 16

@14
Another sign of a conflict being imposed upon these people from outside forces.

Posted by: Tea | May 5 2014 21:00 utc | 17

Link to WHITE BOOK
ON VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS
AND THE RULE OF LAW
IN UKRAINE
(NOVEMBER 2013 — MARCH 2014)
81 page official document of evidence compiled by Ministry of Foreign Affairs
of the Russian Federation.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 21:20 utc | 18

Saw at the SF Chronicle that Kiev is sending in their elite national guard unit to calm things down in Odessa. Since Yarosh was bragging about how he recruited the Right Sector for the national guard that should calm down things there.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 5 2014 21:22 utc | 19

The picture of that woman with the rifle is so sad. Yugoslavia again. Curse those evil men with those dark cold hearts.
Laurels and cheers for brave ones like this woman standing up to the cohorts of evil.
She has bigger balls than many so called men I know.

Posted by: Fernando | May 5 2014 21:22 utc | 20

plantman @5
A video camera operator for ‘Euromaidan PR’ managed to get in while police were examining the bodies. The whole site should have been sealed off.
‘Euromaidan PR’ makes its position clear. It regards the victims of the massacre as terrorists.

Posted by: Yonatan | May 5 2014 21:48 utc | 21

She has bigger balls than many so called men I know.
I agree. She’s much braver than the armed male pro-Russian separatists who have to hide behind masks like cowardly terrorists. Or, within that sub-culture, is she not worthy of a mask because she’s merely a woman? Either way, good on her for not being frightened like a coward to show her face to the light of day. She should serve as a lesson to all those so-called pro-Russian freedom fighters who don the Ribbon of St. George but not their faces.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 5 2014 21:56 utc | 22

Posted by: Bob In Portland | May 5, 2014 5:22:09 PM | 19
Hopefully the Pravy Sector NG will not make it back to Kiev.

Posted by: Tea | May 5 2014 22:08 utc | 23

EU Elections Coming UP
I wonder how events in the Ukraine will be influencing European voters.

Posted by: Tea | May 5 2014 22:12 utc | 24

BEGONE, Donkeyhole.
Good grief, Kalithea gets banned and this jackass is still around?

Posted by: L Bean | May 5 2014 22:17 utc | 25

‘Allegedly: A polite green man from Russia Putin’s Spetsnaz special force enforcer Ukrainian woman awaiting fascists in Slovyansk.’
thats a really good disguise

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:30 utc | 26

‘I agree. She’s much braver than the armed male pro-Russian separatists who have to hide behind masks like cowardly terrorists. Or, within that sub-culture, is she not worthy of a mask because she’s merely a woman? Either way, good on her for not being frightened like a coward to show her face to the light of day. She should serve as a lesson to all those so-called pro-Russian freedom fighters who don the Ribbon of St. George but not their faces.
‘
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 5, 2014 5:56:28 PM | 22
pot kettle black
cold and hole in the head>..masks were de rigeur at euromaidan by the antrirussian neonazis!
indeed…your nickname is a mask,,,,care to show you have balls and use your real name? No?

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:32 utc | 27

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 5, 2014 3:56:37 PM | 7
so far Putins russia has resisted Cold and hole in the heads invitation…still waiting for him/her/it to remove mask

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:35 utc | 28

just to annoy B today:
krimea and russia courtesy of Michelangelo
Russian Market ‏@russian_market ·3h
中國來的公司將在克里米亞及俄羅斯大陸之間搭橋 pic.twitter.com/FpC0IJIrgk

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:40 utc | 29

Warlord arrives in Estonia
Russian Market ‏@russian_market 4h
Secretary General of NATO arrives to Estonia as NATO’s record 6,000-strong drills kick off there

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:42 utc | 30

wannabe cockeral canada sends military aid to neonazis
NATOSource
‏@NATOSource ·5h Canadian Troops in Poland for Multinational Exercise. #Russia #NATO #Ukraine #Harper #Canada http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/canadian-troops-in-poland-for-multinational-exercise … pic.twitter.com/Ln0H8CjryU

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:44 utc | 31

US nazi allies post bounty on journalist…what will Amnesty/HRW say?
RT @RT_com · 7h $10,000 a head: Radicals put a bounty on UK journalist in #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/NFMT7F8VcM http://on.rt.com/t9ca5z @GrahamWP_UK

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:46 utc | 32

@brian – could please stop posting what seem to be random out of context tweets of whoknownswho?
If you have to say something say it in your own voice please.
Posted by: b | May 5, 2014 7:46:35 AM | 146

Posted by: james | May 5 2014 22:47 utc | 33

PaulaSlier_RT ‏@PaulaSlier_RT ·1 hr
Video of traumatised family of Irina, 30, who was killed by a sniper while standing on her balcony smoking http://twitpic.com/e30zek

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:52 utc | 34

Posted by: james | May 5, 2014 6:47:30 PM | 33
LOL not sure if that is irony or unintended comedy

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 22:53 utc | 35

This is going to end badly for the fascists and Obama. The more force they use, the more people will join the fight. This is not going to be Yugoslavia where NATO air power will rule the skies.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 5 2014 23:13 utc | 36

Oh, oh. The Russians have finally done it. They crossed that final red line. The ultimate sacrilege in American eyes. No special privileges for McDonalds.
Link to Russia’s Omsk governor excludes McDonald’s from investments list

“As a patriot of my country, I am against spreading McDonald’s products in the Omsk region. We are not going to lease this American network any working space”, Nazarov said, stressing that McDonald’s is just an ordinary fast food company, so there is no point in providing it with any favorable and beneficial conditions.”

Unbelievable insolence. Send in Nuland and the banderas.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 23:28 utc | 37

Max Tucker works in Kiev for Amnesty intertional..and shows his and AIs support for the neoliberal/neonazi JUNTA by attacking RT journalist Graham Philiops
Catherina ‏@Catherina_News ·6h
#AmnestyInternational in full attack mode vs media not regurgitating G7 lies. WAKE UP NOW! #G7 BENT on war! https://twitter.com/MaxRTucker/status/463365786481201152 …
Steiner
‏@Steiner1776 ·6h @Catherina_News I think @GrahamWP_UK should sue @MaxRTucker for that statement. He clearly did it to discredit him without any proof.

Posted by: brian | May 5 2014 23:36 utc | 38

@37
Oh for GODS SAKE, B already TOLD you to stop.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 5 2014 23:48 utc | 39

Posted by: brian | May 5, 2014 7:36:16 PM | 37
The Maxim Tucker tweet:

“Wondering who this @GrahamWP_UK is, suddenly most beloved of @RT_com? Turns out he’s an incoherent sex tourist rejected by @KyivPost! Amazed”

I agree with Steiner, the Tucker deserves to be sued, along with Amnesty Interfascist.

Posted by: scalawag | May 5 2014 23:49 utc | 40

Those conscientious war criminals running the west have added environmental/ecological warfare to the list of their other war crimes against Russia.
Link to Урожай риса в Крыму полностью погиб из-за нехватки воды
(partial Yandex translation)

The rice harvest in the Crimea died due to water shortages
Polushkin also reminded that Ukraine had provided up to 85 percent of the needs of the region in fresh water with the North-Crimean canal, which connects the main channel of the Dnipro Peninsula.
At the moment, Kiev provides the Crimea only four cubic meter of water per second at the rate of 80-85 cubic meters. The authorities of the Republic have repeatedly conveyed to the Ukrainian colleagues documents for conclusion of the agreement the supply of water at world prices. However, the Kyiv officials find excuses for refusing to resolve the situation.
In this connection, the Ministry of environmental resources and ecology of Russia intends to develop individual plans of water supply for each area of the Peninsula. However, a full solution to the problem will take about two years. Vice Prime Minister of the Crimea Rustam Temirgaliev sure that the behavior of Ukraine is nothing but revenge.

Not enough water to supply agriculture in Crimea. This reminds me of the way the Israelis abuse the people in the Palestinian territories by shutting off water supplies or setting severe limits on the supply.

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 0:18 utc | 41

@18,
That White Book is stunning. The Russian government produced that?

Posted by: MRW | May 6 2014 0:20 utc | 42

How the White House redefined Mayday and celebrated the Odessa Massacre and its global press blackout
May 1 Presidential Proclamation — Loyalty Day, 2014
May 2 USAID invests $1.25 million in ‘media and press freedom’ in Ukraine
May 2 Rose Garden press conference with Merkel, praising Kiev ‘restraint’
May 3 Correspondent’s Dinner, mocks Putin
May 2, 2014 will be marked as the moment when the high water mark of UKUSA imperialism crashed and started rolling out to sea.

Posted by: anonymous | May 6 2014 0:47 utc | 43

the most terribly beautiful images since the Spanish Civil War.

Posted by: guest77 | May 6 2014 1:54 utc | 44

brain – when they are under 40 lines and you don’t ruin the page with long links, i quite like the info.

Posted by: guest77 | May 6 2014 2:01 utc | 45

Hmmmm! The Spetsnaz soldier in the photo looks just like Annie Oaklievitch. Look at the way she’s holdin’ that AK and then try to tell me she doesn’t know how to use it.

Posted by: Deke Solomon | May 6 2014 2:02 utc | 46

That gal has the longest trigger finger I’ve ever seen!

Posted by: ben | May 6 2014 2:10 utc | 47

re the LONG trigger finger – probably a Maidan Photoshop, widening of the lady to make her appear more brutish and unattractive. ‘cos you know them Russians are just asian savage mud race people, after all. /snark

Posted by: L Bean | May 6 2014 2:25 utc | 48

b writes: I do expect some more serious diplomacy over the next days but the continued amateurish behavior of the State Department, discussed here, lets me believe that there will be no progress in solving the situation without more conflict.
That seems like a contradiction. How can one engage in diplomacy with the US given their actions over the last few months. It is more than amateurish (though that it is) I think we have to accept that they have some agenda in mind that is not being pursued by diplomacy. Maybe provoking the Russians into taking some military action that the US will try to use in a propaganda campaign to stop the Eurasian economic plan that Putin has been pushing.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 6 2014 2:29 utc | 49

bevin @12
I certainly hope you are right bevin but I do not share your optimism. But perhaps you can provide some clarification. You say:
“There are articles all over the MSM contradicting the official, but incredible, narrative.”
I presume you intended to write “internet” where you have “MSM” in this sentence.

Posted by: Phantastron | May 6 2014 2:41 utc | 50

Posted by: Phantastron | May 5, 2014 10:41:34 PM | 48
“I presume you intended to write “internet” where you have “MSM” in this sentence.”
Freudian slip, most likely. 😉

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 2:45 utc | 51

@45 Pretty sure thats part of the gun bro.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 3:14 utc | 52

scalawag @ 49 Gee thanks scalawag. You understand bevin so well that you even can provide a psychoanalytic account of why he/she made the mistake!
Getting back to bevin @12 – you mention a lot of good articles papers in your post. But if good available articles were an indicator that the MSM would lose the propaganda war then the MSM would have lost the war a long time ago. But it did not! What is also required is for the general, uninformed public wanting to be informed and, as a result, to seek out the good available articles. Furthermore, a well-written paper will never prevail over the evening news as presented by CNN or Fox on people’s televisions, which is a major source determining people’s beliefs. The truths and insights, as presented in the articles you mention, do not readily lend themselves to a propagandistic treatment it seems to me. And without such a treatment the majority of people will remain unmoved and so the MSM will prevail.

Posted by: Phantastron | May 6 2014 3:26 utc | 53

Posted by: Phantastron | May 5, 2014 11:26:04 PM | 51
“49 Gee thanks scalawag. You understand bevin so well that you even can provide a psychoanalytic account of why he/she made the mistake!”
I’ve known him for something like a dozen years…
Don’t be such a primadonna, it’s self-degrading. 😉

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 3:32 utc | 54

Hey scalawag,
I just looked at the Russian Wikipedia’s article on the Odessa massacre. It is as ridiculous as English Wikipedia’s article on the same subject. Can you explain to me why? Don’t Russians edit Russian Wikipedia?

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 3:32 utc | 55

Posted by: Demian | May 5, 2014 11:32:55 PM | 53
“I just looked at the Russian Wikipedia’s article on the Odessa massacre. It is as ridiculous as English Wikipedia’s article on the same subject. Can you explain to me why? Don’t Russians edit Russian Wikipedia?”
Are you serious? 😀

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 3:34 utc | 56

Less pompous people would dismiss the human rights report as worthless, not because it says anything untrue, but because all the int’l bodies to whom it could be submitted belong to the US and its allies. Even if the UN General Assembly discussed it, they wouldn’t get a majority to endorse it, and in any case it wouldn’t get much publicity in the western MSM, so what use would it be, in practical terms? None.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 6 2014 3:39 utc | 57

Assume American funded Russian NGOs write Russian wiki. Who else has all that time on their hands? Real people don’t.

Posted by: L Bean | May 6 2014 3:40 utc | 58

Link to Putin Signs Law on National Card Payment System

MOSCOW, May 5 (RIA Novosti) – Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed into law a bill to create a national card payment system, the Kremlin press service said Monday.
The Russian parliament approved the bill last month.
Plans to establish a national card payment processing system emerged in response to Ukraine-related sanctions that saw several Russian banks denied service by global powerhouses Visa and MasterCard, troubling the general public and raising concern over the security of the country’s financial system.
As a reaction to Crimea reunifying with Russia in mid-March, the US introduced targeted sanctions against Russian officials and Rossiya Bank, considered by the US Treasury to be a private bank for many Russian government officials.
Following the move, Visa and MasterCard stopped client operations for cardholders at Rossiya Bank, SMP Bank, as well as their subsidiaries Sobinbank and Investkapitalbank with no prior notice, causing a serious drop in the consumer confidence of the banks.
According to Russian Central Bank estimates, building the infrastructure for the launch of the national payment system may take up to six months, but the distribution of the cards to the public could take up to two years.
Visa and MasterCard have announced they were concerned about the future of their business in Russia in light of the new legislation.

As well they should be. Maybe they can join McDonalds in a class action lawsuit. 😉

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 3:42 utc | 59

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 5, 2014 11:39:33 PM | 55
“so what use would it be, in practical terms? None.”
That’s a reasonable point, given the cynicism in the west now. The Russians are laying down a legal framework outside of western Orwellian/Goebellsian fantasy reality played out among their deranged officials and their even more psychopathic media parasites. The Russians are not doing it to change the minds of these people, or their warped alternate reality. It may seem pointless now, but documenting the nazi crimes of the 30’s, hasn’t turned out to be pointless, despite western pretense at the time they didn’t occur. What would happen if every NYC detective never bothered recording the facts of mafia crimes because they knew their corrupted, bought off bosses would simply bin the results? You’d end up with present day NY.
Even it looks like futile effort, doing the right thing is still doing the right thing. Especially if no body knows about it.

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 3:59 utc | 60

First witness accounts of Odessa massacre
Children died. people were killed by “demonstrators” not by the fire.
Western silence is deafening.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 4:01 utc | 61

Posted by: scalawag | May 5, 2014 11:59:53 PM | 58
“Especially if no body knows about it.”
Especially if no body ELSE knows about it.

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 4:02 utc | 62

@59 Link is giving me some kind of server error.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 4:03 utc | 63

scalawag@52
Uh uh I guess I offended you and so you attack me. A common practice I guess especially when people are not face to face.

Posted by: Phantastron | May 6 2014 4:10 utc | 64

@62
Even when people ARE face to face, people often get agressive and combative if they feel they have been insulted intentionally, even if its just a misunderstanding in reality.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 4:19 utc | 65

Massinissa@63
That.s true. But my impression is that on blogs where one’s identity is shielded and one’s interlocutor is far away ad hominem flows a lot more freely.

Posted by: Phantastron | May 6 2014 4:29 utc | 66

Let’s argue about this “misunderstanding” and get all drama queen about it, for a couple hundred posts and totally prevent discussion of relevant material, shall we? That’s how you guys work it here, right?

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 4:43 utc | 67

Quick simplistic comment on Cold War 2.0. How can anyone who’s read more than 1 or 2 books possibly hate Russians? As anyone knows, Russia and Russians have produced some of the greatest literature, science, music, etc. ever – and have the most incredible soulful characteristics, humor, warmth. As an American I have been into Russia all my life without ever having visited or barely met any Russians.
It is painful to experience the imitation diplomats, politicians, military and corporate pigs running this anti-Russian con game, and they are damaging the perceptions of future generations.

Posted by: anonymous | May 6 2014 4:48 utc | 68

@65 Coming from the one attacking others out of spite I dont find that sarcasm very convincing.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 4:57 utc | 69

“How can anyone who’s read more than 1 or 2 books possibly hate Russians?”
Americans dont spend their leisure time reading, and when they do, its usually Game of Thrones, not Crime and Punishment. And god knows Americans are too busy watching the news talk about Katy Perry to do something like read a history book.
And have you not noticed that like 33% of Americans, give or take, still think the Russians and Chinese are commies? When Michelle Bachmann was saying during the 2012 campaign that “Americans are concerned about the rise of the Soviet Union”, although theres no Soviet Union anymore and its fun to accuse her (correctly) of complete ignorance of the world, she was still pretty much right: Much of the south IS concerned with the rise of the soviet union and havnt gotten the message that the Russian Federation is capitalist…
Im only being partially sarcastic here. And I can diss the south since im from here and have first hand experience.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 5:03 utc | 70

Link to ‘They need only blood’: Slavyansk woman killed by sniper fire on her balcony (GRAPHIC)

A 30-year-old civilian woman died after being shot in the head by sniper fire while standing on her balcony in Slavyansk. RT’s Paula Slier visited shocked relatives of the victim, who say a Ukrainian army sniper is responsible, though they don’t know why.
Slier arrived to the small Slavyansk apartment just hours after Irina was murdered, a large pool of blood still marking the floor of the balcony. A hospital nurse earlier confirmed that the woman died of a gunshot wound to her head.
The apartment, located on the sixth floor of a small block of flats, appeared to be away from the recent fighting in Slavyansk, and no barricades or checkpoints could be seen anywhere near the area.
Irina, who was head of a department at a technical college in Slavyansk, never took part in any protests or fighting. However, when standing on her balcony and waiting for her husband to come home from a nearby garage, the woman was targeted by an unidentified sniper. Neighbors said they heard a popping sound coming from the trees opposite her window.
Slier spoke to the family of the victim, still in shock and disbelief at what happened.
“She was just standing there, waiting for her husband to come back home…Why was the girl killed?!” Irina’s mother-in-law, who says she treated her like a daughter, told Slier.
“She did not even come outside. She was not standing at any barricades. She was for a unified Ukraine and for friendship with Russia,” the woman said, sobbing hysterically.
“I rushed into the room and saw my wife lying on the floor with a bullet in her head,” Irina’s shocked husband said. “We called an ambulance. She died in hospital.”
“What was he [the sniper] doing in the trees? Fighting those with automatic rifles in hands? No, just sneakily scored a kill and is happy about it,” Irina’s father-in-law said.
After months of violence in Ukraine, neither can comprehend why there is so much hate against eastern Ukrainians from the coup-imposed government, or what Ukrainian troops are doing in the region.
“We want only peace, we want a functioning economy, we want normal pensions and decent salary for working people. And they are killing us,” Irina’s mother-in-law told Slier.
PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT
Blood on spattered balcony fall – 30 year old Irina was standing here when shot by sniper #Slovyansk
11:52 AM – 5 May 2014
Moreover, the version of events presented by the invariably pro-Kiev local TV channels is simply appalling, her father-in-law said.
“You just watch this TV of yours…Only the Ukrainians are goodies, the rest are fools. All of us here are ‘thugs,’ ‘separatists,’ dubious ‘Russian agents’ are everywhere – but those that they call so, they are not killing us, they protect us. And those who have come…it is them who are killing us. We didn’t have anything like this until they came here,” he told Slier.
The locals feel the Kiev regime is not seeking dialogue with eastern Ukrainians at all, and instead have firmly chosen the path of violence and repression.
“Nobody will tell the truth. They need only blood, all of them,” Irina’s father-in-law said.
Kiev has intensified attacks on Slavyansk and other protester-held cities in eastern Ukraine since Friday morning. So far, government troops have managed to blockade transport to and from Slavyansk, but haven’t made significant territorial gains, preferring hit and run tactics, killing and injuring dozens of people. At least 10 self-defense fighters and their unarmed civilian supporters were killed in the latest clashes on Monday.

Incidentally, PaulaSlier_RT, the RT journalist reporting from the Ukraine, is one of the “whoknowswhos” the western establishment frowns upon quoting here.

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 5:12 utc | 71

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6, 2014 12:03:43 AM | 61
just tested it. works for me.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 5:18 utc | 72

@anonymous #66:
I’m an American born ethnic Russian, with Russian being my first language, and I’m not particularly worried that US elites going on about evil Putin and evil Russia is going to “damage the perceptions of future generations”. Polls indicate that the current anti-Russian propaganda isn’t taking. Also, USians have kind of been inoculated against Russophobia by the Cold War. Then, they were told that Americans quarrel was with communism, not Russians.
If you look at popular culture, namely movies and TV, Russians don’t get portrayed as an inscrutable Other. The FX TV series The Americans was renewed for a third season on April 14, amidst all the hysteria about Russia’s savage annexation of Crimea. In this series, both KGB agents who are in deep cover, acting just like real Americans, and KGB agents who work in the Russian embassy in Washington, are portrayed as smarter and more cultivated than their FBI counterparts.
Finally, the American people have been lied to too many times. I think I’m not the only one who thinks that the disillusionment with Washington is at an all time high. So when politicians tell Americans that Putin is the latest Hitler, I think most Americans just tune that out. Add to that that you have an American perennial like Pat Buchanan suggesting that God is on Russia’s side (infuriating so-called progressives).

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 5:19 utc | 73

Link to Ukrainian Crisis Was Always About Containing Russia

NATO, Nazis, and the “Expansion of Europe”
So what is NATO doing with Nazi militants in Ukraine? The same thing Adolf Hitler was doing – establishing “breathing room.” While the West attempts publicly to portray the crisis in Ukraine as Europe reacting to Russian aggression, behind semi-closed doors they are very open about their agenda in Ukraine and elsewhere along Russia’s peripheries – it is and always was about the expansion of Europe and the containment of Russia.
Recently the corporate-funded NATO think tank, the Atlantic Council, celebrated what it called, “anniversaries of crucial importance to the transatlantic community, including the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, the 15th anniversary of NATO’s first post-Cold War enlargement, and the 10th anniversary of the “big bang” enlargements of both the European Union and NATO.” These “enlargements” all took place after the fall of the Cold War – in other words, after NATO’s mandate for existing expired. Yet the alliance continued to grow, and not only did it grow, in tandem with the European Union, it did so directly toward Moscow’s doorstep with every intention of eventually absorbing Russia as well.
In fact, many of the same organizations standing behind the unelected regime in Kiev, have been directing unrest within Russia as well. And in turn, Russian opposition leaders backed by Western-cash and diplomatic support have vocally supported the regime in Kiev.
In reality, what we have witnessed over the past several months is not “Russian aggression,” but the premeditated destabilization and overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine, and a resulting, and continuously escalating confrontation with Russia as Moscow reacts to the reappearance of Nazis along its borders, backed by NATO and the EU.

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 5:30 utc | 74

@scalawag #72:
Yes, this is nothing but an Atlanticist Drang nach Osten. It’s pure evil when the Germans do it, but utterly benevolent when the Anglos do it.

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 5:37 utc | 75

Forbes does propaganda (and saves money)
This here is a very thoughtful Russian inquiry on human rights in Crimea
No, it has not been deleted.
It also quotes real believable numbers of the Crimean referendum.

According to almost all survey participants and citizens :
– The vast majority of inhabitants of Sevastopol voted in a referendum to join Russia ( 50-80 % turnout ) , Crimea according to various sources for joining Russia voted 50-60% voter turnout with a total of 30-50 %

This is what Forbes reports

Putin’s Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 15% Voted For Annexation
The website of the “President of Russia’s Council on Civil Society and Human Rights” posted a blog that was quickly taken down as if it were toxic radioactive waste. According to the Council’s report about the March referendum to annex Crimea, the turnout was a maximum 30%. And of these, only half voted for annexation – meaning only 15 percent of Crimean citizens voted for annexation.

The guy reporting this is a “contributor” not a “journalist”. Forbes gets him for free.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 6:01 utc | 76

@70 Working for me now. Must have been problem on my end.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 6:07 utc | 77

@71 “Add to that that you have an American perennial like Pat Buchanan suggesting that God is on Russia’s side (infuriating so-called progressives).”
Not that I have much love for Progressives, but wouldnt it be conservatives who would be more angry about that? I mean, Progressives are largely agnostic.
And that Townhall site is Republican im pretty sure. Speaking of which, all the commenters are trashing Buchanan even though, well, I dont believe in God but I have my money on Putin coming out ahead at least in the short term.
Funny how its these commenters who are probably more delusional than the one theyre criticizing of being delusional, but oh well, thats America.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 6:13 utc | 78

@somebody #74:
Can you read Russian? I don’t recall your giving a link to something in Russian before. Thanks, by the way.

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 6:13 utc | 79

@73
EVERYTHING is good when America does it.
Imagine if Russia drone bombed Chechnya or maybe one of the stans on its borders. Obama and the American MSM would be FURIOUS, FURIOUS, even though Obama does it in half a dozen countries all the time and noone gives a shit except some libertarians and some fringe lefties.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 6:16 utc | 80

Posted by: Demian | May 6, 2014 2:13:53 AM | 77
Link via correct German reporting in Süddeutsche Zeitung check/translation via Google translate.
I hate automatic translation but with counter checks it works.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 6:20 utc | 81

#77
These days I really wish I could understand some russian. I noticed that, when I found myself watching RTs livestream with growing interest, I felt how nice it would be to do some further reading / research in russian… sigh. (Im not somebody, but german, too)

Posted by: peter radiator | May 6 2014 6:27 utc | 82

Really, if you get right down to it . . . the reason Americans hate Russians/Communists . . . to whatever extent that is real . . . is that if you had to put 2 armies with equal supplies on a desert island, which side do you think would win? And . . . as a 3rd party, which side would you rather live with either way?
As an American, I’d choose the Russian side.

Posted by: anonymous | May 6 2014 6:28 utc | 83

Link to «42 сгоревших трупа – так теперь выглядит свобода на Украине»
(Yandex translation)

“42 the burned corpse – so now looks freedom in Ukraine”
Kyiv, May 05 (Navigator, Natalia Starokojko) – a Painful death 42 Odessa, burned alive in a House of trade unions “fighters with separatists”, – instant destroyed the myths that 23 years aired official Kyiv.
About it in a newspaper column for “Navigator” writes Ukrainian blogger Natalia Starokojko.
Friday night. For some it is an occasion to relax and unwind with friends. For someone start a family weekend. And for forty-two Odessites it was the night of the real hell. About a hundred supporters of federalization has been trapped in the house of trade unions in Odessa, where they had taken refuge, fleeing an angry mob of fighters for the unitarity of the country. Over people there, mocked, beaten, raped, poured flammable mixtures and set on fire. We can only guess, how painful was the last minutes of the inhabitants of the tent city.
Some were rescued from the fire jumped out of the window, and below them were finished two-legged creature, wrapped in Ukrainian flags. People can hardly be called. People can’t scream out, “It is not the woman! Women home with the children, and this is the separatist!”, at that time, how cute College girls close to bottled Molotov cocktails and bring them to their comrades in the struggle, all in the same long-suffering Ukrainian flag.
Odessa citizens died accompanied by the Ukrainian anthem, sing their executioners. Despite numerous broadcast from the place of events, the capital of the most tried not to notice the events of the second of may. In the Studio Savik Shuster routinely gathered vechornyci Maidan and the political elite to talk about the presidential race and widely advertised illusion Russian military aggression. During the conversation was announced, and news about the dispersal of the camp of supporters of the Odessa Republic. The audience erupted in applause and cheers. To what extent have degraded our society, if we are pleased with such news? What democracy and freedom we are trying to impose, if because of political differences, people began to kill on the spot, and the society approves of such actions?..
In Ukraine, the freedom to have their political views degenerated into riots, the loss of the human person and in forty-two burned bodies. So now looks freedom in Ukraine.
The Russian-speaking population plays the role of a second-rate. Their right to self-determination and influence on the country’s life from now on amounts to permission to use the Russian language in everyday life. If someone disagreed, and means more to him go on tour on the “friendship train”, and the smallest beginnings of opportunism utaplivajutsja in the pavement March unity.
How long can survive the state in this form? How many lives of its citizens Kyiv is ready to pay for the apparent unity? Now many concerned about these issues. The current policy of the government is the dictate of power. The suppression of popular opinions military might, backed up by systematic lies of the media. So try to get acceptable “picture” and for foreign investors, and for the IMF. and for still loyal to the authorities of the population.
The horror of the Odessa event level, avoiding the word “people” and “citizens”. The victims called “coloradony”, “terrorists”, “fashistami” and “separatists”, shyly turning away from the fact painful death ordinary citizens. What is this all for?
Ukraine has died together with activists in the House of trade unions. I think that these deaths were notorious “point of no return”… When the St.George ribbon trampled into the blood of women, and the poets idealists die from burns, unable to close their eyes to it and live as if nothing had happened.
All that we built in the years of independence, had collapsed in one moment. What kind of tolerance towards each other can be discussed if in Odessa “fighters with separatism” was strangled pregnant woman, and of her Cabinet was thrown out of the yellow-blue flag? This panel is now the blood of the victims of Odessa citizens, it is the banner of the country, where people for their political views hammer bits and burned alive at the stake.”

Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 6:35 utc | 84

but wouldnt it be conservatives who would be more angry about that? I mean, Progressives are largely agnostic.

As an atheist myself, I didn’t intend that the God part be taken literally. What I had in mind is that American conservative man love for Putin seems to be a recurring theme among “progressives”. (And indeed, I did read an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about how Putin is a more effective leader than Obama.)

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 6:37 utc | 85

Posted by: peter radiator | May 6, 2014 2:27:22 AM | 80
Just learn, it will be good for your brain. Loads of Russians in Germany to teach. Russian got two more cases than German, but in a few years …. :-))
The Russian report under the above link also has the following intriguing information

Inhabitants of Crimea voted not so much for joining Russia , as for the termination, in their words, ” of the corruption and lawlessness of the dominating Donetsk thieves and henchmen.” Inhabitants of Sevastopol vote for annexation to Russia due to fears of illegal armed groups in Sevastopol higher than in other regions of the Crimea.

That would be Yanukovich’s clan? Sounds like similar motivation to Maidan but different attempt at solution.
So how come people with a similar problem are made to fight each other on language, historical fault lines and geopolitics?

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 6:41 utc | 86

Add to 84, I got to the propagandistic Forbes falsification of the Russian report via Radek Sikorski’s (Polish Foreign Minister) twitter account retweeting this guy – keeping some distance by carefully not linking to the piece himself – so they are trying to push that meme.
Fact is Russia did a complete thoughful human rights review of Crimea, including the likely correct outcome of the referendum, and intends to act on it.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 7:00 utc | 87

Posted by: anonymous | May 6, 2014 2:28:50 AM | 81
As an American, I’d choose the Russian side.
Be careful what you wish for. I depends on the situation.
I suppose things have changed, but Russian soldiers used to be treated badly by their own officers. Lots of US atrocities come from the fact that overkill is used to ensure the safety of their own troops. A lot of damage is done by the privatisation of the US army, too, fostering criminality and corruption in the occupied countries.
So in retrospect Afghans presumably prefer Russian occupation to US occupation.
Eastern Europe does not remember Russian troops favourably simply for the fact that in those times the Russian standard of living was much lower than in Europe whilst the life style of US troops was much higher than in Europe. In the GDR they kept Russian troops in the barracks so they did not notice that the country they occupied had a higher standard of living than their families at home. There were Russian deserters trying to survive in German woods who just could not take the treatment by their officers any more.
There were US deserters during the Vietnam and Iraq wars but they did not have to live in the woods but traveled to Sweden.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 7:16 utc | 88

@scalaweg #72 and @Demian #73 – Atlantic Council
○ US Foreign Policy Set by Neocon Think Tanks
The past few days I have been writing about the sources of US foreign policy in the Obama administration.
Once again, just like Vietnam War and the Rand Corporation, there are high level think-tanks who advocate policy of national security, international relations, NATO, defence in Europe and people involved with the Atlantic Council. Read also “DNI Publication ‘Global Trends 2030’.”
○ NATO Amb. Ivo Daalder at Atlantic Council
Even as the crisis in Ukraine continues to defy easy resolution, President Obama and his national security team are looking beyond the immediate conflict to forge a new long-term approach to Russia that applies an updated version of the Cold War strategy of containment.
Just as the United States resolved in the aftermath of World War II to counter the Soviet Union and its global ambitions, Mr. Obama is focused on isolating President Vladimir V. Putin’s Russia by cutting off its economic and political ties to the outside world, limiting its expansionist ambitions in its own neighborhood and effectively making it a pariah state.

Posted by: Oui | May 6 2014 7:19 utc | 89

Interesting reading in two parts:
Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev

f the US State Department’s Victoria Nuland had not said “Fuck the EU,” few outsiders at the time would have heard of Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, the man on the other end of her famously bugged telephone call. But now Washington’s man in Kiev is gaining fame as the face of the CIA-style “destabilization campaign” that brought down Ukraine’s monumentally corrupt but legitimately elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

FOCUS | Part II: Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev

s the new US ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt was taking the measure of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych in September, Bill and Hillary Clinton visited historic Crimea. The region was still under Kiev’s control, though the Russians held a long lease on bases in Sebastopol, where they keep their prized Black Sea Fleet.

I don’t know if this will be a double posting, as the first try did not show up.

Posted by: Fran | May 6 2014 7:33 utc | 90

Demian
Not only wikipedia but alot of commententing on RT etc, no surprise though.
I assumed the russian wiki would be better though (havent seen it).
How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation

Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 8:14 utc | 91

@somebody
Diaspora terrorists haven USA …
Northern Ireland (IRA) – Chechnya (freedom fighters) – Iraq (Chalabi) – Iran (MEK) – Libya (Khalifa Hifter) – Syria (SETF) – Ukraine (UCCA)
Andrij Dobriansky is an executive at Ukrainian Congress Committee of America (UCCA)

Remarks on the Conference ‘Ukraine’s Choice’ (2004) — By Krystyna Litton
On Friday, December 10th, the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) held a conference entitled “Ukraine’s Choice”. The conference attempted to assess Ukraine’s geopolitical orientation, civil society, and economy after the presidential elections.
The AEI is one of the largest public policy think tanks in Washington, DC. The conference was also sponsored by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, Freedom House, the International Republican Institute, the National Endowment for Democracy, and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
Among speakers were well know politicians and researchers such as Zbigniew Brzezinski, Radek Sikorski, Vyacheslav Briukhovetsky, the chief of staff for Viktor Yushchenko Oleh Rybachuk, Adrian Karatnycky of Freedom House, Paula Dobriansky and others.
…
Any relationship? WhoIs Paula J. Dobriansky … appears to be daughter of anti-communist Lev E. Dobriansky.

Posted by: Oui | May 6 2014 8:26 utc | 92

Interesting reading:
Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev

f the US State Department’s Victoria Nuland had not said “Fuck the EU,” few outsiders at the time would have heard of Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, the man on the other end of her famously bugged telephone call. But now Washington’s man in Kiev is gaining fame as the face of the CIA-style “destabilization campaign” that brought down Ukraine’s monumentally corrupt but legitimately elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

FOCUS | Part II: Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev

s the new US ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt was taking the measure of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych in September, Bill and Hillary Clinton visited historic Crimea. The region was still under Kiev’s control, though the Russians held a long lease on bases in Sebastopol, where they keep their prized Black Sea Fleet.

Hope I am not spamming – my first to trials didn’t show, despite saying they have been posted. Or am I on a “no-post” liste? 🙂

Posted by: Fran | May 6 2014 8:31 utc | 93

Slowly getting closer to truth – interfax.ua – official Ukrainian source

Forty-eight people remain unaccounted for following the May 2 events in Odesa, southern Ukraine, where several dozen people were killed, the 1+1 television station reported on Tuesday, adding that unidentified dead bodies are still lying in the city’s morgues.
“Apart from the 46 dead, another 48 people were reported yesterday as missing. Two dozen unidentified dead bodies are still lying in morgues,” the TV channel said.

So 46+48=94 plus 24 unidentified bodies (included or not in the 48) would be close to the Russian numbers.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 8:32 utc | 94

@Oui #89:
Don’t bother posting links to BoomanTribune. I don’t think anyone here wants anything to do with that Russophobic blog. And I don’t care how long you have been there. You can post diaries at EuropeanTribune or at FDL.
The decent thing to do is to help the Obama zombie blog BoomanTribune understand that it is one of the living dead, so that it can accept its death and rest in peace.

Posted by: Demian | May 6 2014 8:41 utc | 95

@Demian #91
I have written at all 3 blogs U mention and I have been at BT and ET from the very beginning in 2005. @BooMan I have my own space and support base in the community. I receive a lot of kudos on international issues and the community is open to my criticism of members of the Obama administration.
I prefer to “agitate” with news from another viewpoint and inform than preach to the choir. The lone voice …

Posted by: Oui | May 6 2014 9:15 utc | 96

Damn – things are not going according to plan

Breedlove said that until a week ago, he thought the most likely military response from Russia would be to send in troops to southern Ukraine and secure a land bridge to the peninsula of Crimea – which voted in March to join Russia – before possibly pushing on toward the Black Sea port of Odessa and then further west toward Moldova.
“Today I would tell you I don’t think that’s the most likely course of action … I think now that Putin may be able to accomplish his objectives in eastern Ukraine and never go across the border with his forces,” he said.
“Now I think probably the most likely course of action is that he will continue doing what he’s doing – discrediting the government, creating unrest, trying to set the stage for a separatist movement,” and that would make it easier to cement Moscow’s military and economic hold on eastern Ukraine, Breedlove added.
“In that case, I think it’s the most troublesome for NATO because if the forces do not come across the border, my guess is that many will want to try to quickly go back to business as usual, and I, for one, do not believe annexing Crimea is business as usual.”

Tell you what Breedlove, Putin might even offer to return Crimea to a federation of Ukrainian and Russian citizens.

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 9:28 utc | 97

somebody 93
I recomend all people here read somebody’s post at 93!
Well now we know for a fact that US/NATO want war with Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 9:42 utc | 98

Lavor live now!
http://rt.com/on-air/lavrov-ukraine-europe-council/

Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 11:10 utc | 99

French Le Point – Ukraine seen from a CIA/Pentagon point of view

D’après lui, d’autres acteurs à Washington auraient même tout intérêt à jouer le durcissement, sans pour autant entrer dans une confrontation directe avec la Russie. “Si Obama ne veut pas s’engager en Ukraine, le Pentagone estime que cette crise peut remettre en question les nombreuses réductions des budgets alloués à la défense”, explique le spécialiste. “Du point de vue des services de renseignements américains, elle permet de reléguer au second plan médiatique les turpitudes de la NSA (scandale des écoutes, NDLR) et les déboires de la CIA (soupçonnée d’avoir espionné le Sénat américain qui enquêtait sur l’agence). Enfin, alors que l’Otan s’apprête à se retirer d’Afghanistan et que se pose la question du rôle de l’organisation, l’affaire ukrainienne permet de resolidariser ses membres derrière les États-Unis”.
D’ailleurs, le secrétaire américain à la Défense, Chuck Hagel, n’a-t-il pas exhorté vendredi les 28 membres de l’Otan à investir davantage dans leur défense pour faire face à Moscou “sur le long terme”

Translation: The Pentagon believes that the conflict could allow to question numerous defense budget cuts, the CIA thinks the conflict deflects from the NSA scandal and the CIA listening in on the US senate. Finally, as NATO is beginning to leave Afghanistan, and this puts into question the role of the organisation, the Ukrainian crisis permits to re-solidarize its members under the leadership of the United States.
Didn’t the US defense minister Chuck Hagel admonish the 28 NATO members to invest more into defense to be able to face Moscow in the long term?

Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 11:29 utc | 100

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