Is this the beginning of the end? There is another indication that there might be some push back in the US against our current policy. The ambush story yesterday where six Ukrainian soldiers were killed and an APC and an ammo truck destroyed was hardly covered in the NYT and the WaPo. Even RT played down this story by burying it in an article that didn’t feature the battle in the headline. I also didn’t notice any State Dept statement denouncing Russia for the incident. This ambush should have been a bigger news story. It sounds like someone in Washington as well as Russia might be trying to lower the temperature.
If the current Kiev regime is announcing their willingness to talk it means they were probably pressured by Washington. I still think that Russia and US will have to come to terms before any progress can be made.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 14 2014 18:44 utc | 3

I just posted this on last thread, but it contradicts (as of yesterday anyway) the guardian’s piece.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/05/14/ukra-m14.html
Hence Steinmeier’s one-day visit, in which he held talks with acting Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov and Rinat Akhmetov, one of the country’s richest and most powerful oligarchs, whose operations are based in the rebellious southeast of the country. After meeting briefly with Yatsenyuk at Kiev’s main airport, Steinmeier told reporters that both Kiev and the rebels in the east had to engage in a “national dialog” to ensure elections that would usher in “an atmosphere that points Ukraine forward.”
Yatsenyuk, however, made clear in his remarks that his government rejected holding talks with the separatists, whom he called “terrorists.” Later on Tuesday, after meeting with European Union officials in Brussels, Yatsenyuk thanked the OSCE but said Ukraine had drawn up its own “road map” for ending the crisis.
A joint statement by Yatsenyuk and Turchynov issued Tuesday was more blunt. It declared: “We are ready to talk to all those who pursue legitimate political goals, who are prepared to advance them by legal means and who have no blood on their hands.”
Separately, Turchynov pledged that his government would continue its “anti-terrorist” operation to put down the rebellion in the east.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 14 2014 19:10 utc | 5

Kiev may claim that it is hold talks according to the OSCE’s “round table” format, but Lavrov said in an interview 2 days ago which I have a link for somewhere that the US and Kiev were blocking the OSCE recommendations being ‘unveiled’, because Russia would not agree to the changes that US/Kiev demanded in them, but wanted to stick to them just as the OSCE had proposed them. So evidently, the OSCE’s actual proposals would have admitted duly elected representatives of the ‘separatists’, without insisting that they dissociate themselves from all military actions against Kiev as a precondition.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 14 2014 19:20 utc | 7

Posted by: okie farmer | May 14, 2014 3:10:33 PM | 5
Yeah, it is obvious the CIA is backing this lot, telling them what to do. It is personally risky for them though as the National Guard already is on tape shooting on civilians.
Ammunition for Special Forces Airlifted for Slaviansk Operation

The Communist Party of Ukraine earlier called on the Kiev authorities to stop the special operation in eastern Ukraine and endorse federalization in an effort to avoid casualties in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
The Party of Regions has also demanded that Kiev stop the special operation in the southeast of the country.
A prominent parliamentarian, Oleksandr Yefremov, said he is considering turning to international courts to bring to justice those responsible for the crimes, adding that “military actions that result in deaths among civilians cannot be called anything other than a military crime.”

If the CIA keep this up, Germany will not going to make it.

Is the West, in particular Europe, ready for this? It does not look like it. There is a rift between the United States and the EU, but, more importantly, there is also one among the EU’s 28 member states. Germany, again, is the swing state. Should Berlin come around, Europe could come around too.
But Germany is itself deeply divided. The country’s current relatively robust position is Chancellor Angela Merkel’s personal achievement against the wobbliness of much of her own party, her coalition partner, the population, and large parts of the foreign policy establishment. No great preconditions for firmness.

Posted by: somebody | May 14 2014 19:24 utc | 9

Well, somebody, there’s this in the article:
“…Then, the EU, like all involved, was taken by surprise by the Euromaidan demonstrations. It had no choice but to support the antigovernment protesters, who actually took Western values seriously and stood up for them. Today, the EU’s goal is to enable Ukraine to exercise its sovereign right to choose where it wants to go politically. This collides head-on with Moscow’s goal, which is the exact opposite.”
And
“…Contrary to common myth, the West went out of its way to establish a cooperative relationship with Russia after the end of the Cold War. From the EU and NATO to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, from the Council of Europe to the WTO, the West bent over backward to invite Russia in and to accommodate Russian interests. No other non-Western country enjoys the same privileges of closeness and recognition.”
Which leads me to believe the speculation in the article is just pro-west propaganda. The only valid pint he made was the paragraphs you posted. Most of the article is just bullshit.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 14 2014 19:43 utc | 11

@5 okie quote “Separately, Turchynov pledged that his government would continue its “anti-terrorist” operation to put down the rebellion in the east.”
at least they have learned the talking points from the usa/cia well.. the murdering continues thanks those brilliant strategists whose only strategy appears to be to sowing discord..

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 21:26 utc | 13

Here’s another one, guys. This time it’s about Vicky Nuland’s testimony on Ukraine before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Nice to see that the Empire is such good, capable hands!
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/14/the-senate-and-ukraine/

Posted by: James Patrick | May 14 2014 21:44 utc | 15

Patrick, I watched that hearing on C-span, the whole lying thing. Made me nauseous to watch it.
JSor, you’ve got Clinton exactly right – both of them.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 14 2014 21:59 utc | 17

bill clinton was in the news saying his wife doesn’t have brain damage either.. after his episode with lewinsky, i guess he can say/do whatever he wants. who really takes him seriously anyway?
that is very reassuring bill, lol..
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/05/14/227447/bill-clinton-hillary-does-not.html

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 22:04 utc | 19

Bill Clinton’s unwarranted war crimes against Serbia establish his anti-Eurasian credentials is an especially poignant way.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 14 2014 23:37 utc | 21

@20 – can’t negotiate with ‘terrorists’ dontcha know? lol..

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 23:53 utc | 23

Here are some photos of the oligarchs in action – http://ukrafoto.com/reportages.php?id=20886
Whenever this is over, however it turns out, when history can take a step back and assess it will confirm, once again, that no matter how “radical” and “populist” any right wing movement professes to be, it always ends up serving its wealthy masters.
What must those Right Sektor goons tell themselves when they see this? Oh – they don’t see it. They are rounded up, to a man, and sent to fight “the slanty eyed Russians” in the east while the same old oligarchs prepare to rip them off and sell the country, lock stock and barrel, to the US and the IMF.
Fucking Fools.

Posted by: guest77 | May 15 2014 0:11 utc | 25

I shall be on the lookout for any further claims that the “roundtable” (or pear-shaped table) talks in Kiev are in any sense OSCE-enabled or approved, because the fact is that they are not. Kiev has at no point undertaken to follow the OSCE roadmap as produced the the Swiss chairman Burkhalter, and not even the wallowing liars in the White House and State Dept can claim that these pear-shaped talks have any relation to anything he proposed. But would they even know the difference? RT.com appears not to know the difference, or to have read Lavrov’s interviews, because it says:

Kiev will host OSCE-backed talks aimed at defusing the violence in the country. Representatives of the defiant Donetsk and Lugansk regions, whom the Ukrainian officials call terrorists, were not invited. The negotiation is chaired by acting Yatseniuk and is expected to be the first in a series of discussions of the political crisis in Ukraine. They are part of an OSCE roadmap to stop the bloodshed. German Foreign Minister Steinmeier called on Tuesday for Ukraine to invite the rebel provinces to the talks, but Kiev refused.

This is absolutely inaccurate, and makes me wonder, not for the first time, which side RT.com is on.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 0:40 utc | 27

A log for the fire…
http://pando.com/2014/05/14/sorry-america-the-ukraine-isnt-all-about-you/

Posted by: S Brennan | May 15 2014 3:44 utc | 29

Please excuse the expression ‘acting yatsenyuk’ above.

No this is actually pretty good, ’tis high time Yats to become a common noun.

Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 15 2014 4:12 utc | 31

This Moscow Times article explains what Hunter Biden et al is needed for

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that the U.S. was determined to help Ukraine find billions of dollars it says were stolen by Yanukovych and his aides.

as Burisma received those oil fields without public tender from – you guessed it – Yanukovich.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 4:53 utc | 33

@Demian #33:
Speaking of the Boston Marathon bombing “investigation”, this just in from the Guardian:
FBI agent cleared in killing of Boston suspect’s friend had controversial past

Posted by: Demian | May 15 2014 5:17 utc | 35

Posted by: okie farmer | May 15, 2014 1:24:41 AM | 35
This was the first of Angela Merkel’s “round table” discussions and they are supported by OSCE. Round table discussions I suppose means to get anyone prepared to talk to each other on “round tables” with OSCE support. The talks included the opposition party of the regions that used to represent Ukraine’s South East and the Communists. The talks are agreed with Russia.
Fact is, the oligarch backed party of regions is now in competition/conflict with the separatists who are backed by – let’s call them Russian connections. Far enough from the Russian state for deniability.
Russia now has two sides to hedge and chose from.
The elections of May 25th seem to be doomed as they would need control of the whole of Ukraine to be legitimate.
Subtle war mongering – in German

Ob das eine Anspielung auf die Ukraine war? Im Kosovo sorge der Nato-Einsatz für Frieden in einer einst gespaltenen Gesellschaft, sagte die Verteidigungsministerin im deutschen Feldlager. Das könne man „auch mal als Beispiel nehmen“.
Die Nato hatte 1999 nach Vertreibungen und Berichten über Gräueltaten an der albanischen Bevölkerungsmehrheit in der damaligen serbischen Provinz Kosovo mit Luftangriffen interveniert. Nach dem Krieg folgte der jetzige Nato-Stabilisierungseinsatz KFOR, an dem heute noch rund 4900 Soldaten aus 32 Ländern beteiligt sind. Deutschland ist mit 700 Soldaten der größte Truppensteller. Mit 15 Jahren ist es der längste aktuelle Bundeswehreinsatz. Von der Leyen machte klar, dass sie die Mission auch nach so langer Zeit noch für gerechtfertigt hält. „Wichtig ist, dass wir jetzt hier in diesem Land unbeirrt Flagge zeigen“, sagte sie.
Das Kabinett hatte am Mittwoch eine Verlängerung des Einsatzes um ein weiteres Jahr beschlossen.

Brief translation: Should this have meaning in the context of Ukraine? NATO in Kosovo contributed to peace in a split society, defense minister Ursula von der Leyen said in the German NATO camp in Kosovo. NATO has intervened in Kosovo in 1999, after ethnic cleansing and reports of massacres in then Serbian Kosovo on the Albanian majority. The war was followed by NATO KFOR stabilization troops, where even today 4000 soldiers from 32 countries are participating. The 700 German soldiers are the largest contingent. The 15 years are the longest deployment of Federal German troops so far.
From war to defense to peace and stability. Orwell would be proud.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 5:54 utc | 37

“…Contrary to common myth, the West went out of its way to establish a cooperative relationship with Russia after the end of the Cold War. From the EU and NATO to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, from the Council of Europe to the WTO, the West bent over backward to invite Russia in and to accommodate Russian interests. No other non-Western country enjoys the same privileges of closeness and recognition.”
“Which leads me to believe the speculation in the article is just pro-west propaganda. The only valid pint he made was the paragraphs you posted. Most of the article is just bullshit.”
All of the article is just bullshit. The west’s bending over backwards to accommodate Russia consisted of “shock therapy” as applied by Jeffrey Sachs and the Harvard Boyz, Anders Aslund and Anatoly Chubais, and all of them should have been paraded in front of a firing squad. The savings of ordinary Russians were wiped out (including those of my in-laws), inflation achieved escape velocity and life expectancy for Russian men fell by an unbelievable six years.
http://josefsson.net/arkiv/990101_the_art_of_ruining_a_country.html
But long before that, in March of 1954, the USSR applied to join NATO. The west told it to pound sand, because the proposal offered the USA only observer status, and besides, the west felt the USSR’s intent was to “disrupt NATO”. The USSR went away and discussed, and offered a modified proposal which gave the USA full participation. The west (represented by Britain, France and the USA) told them in May of 1954 to go pound some more sand because their joining would be incompatible with NATO’s democratic and defensive aims. And those who had the little twinkle in their eye which would one day become Lockheed-Martin rejoiced.
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/molotovs-proposal-the-ussr-join-nato-march-1954

Posted by: Mark | May 15 2014 6:07 utc | 39

The wheels are coming off for Kiev, because if it cannot hold the country together – as it manifestly cannot – it will have lost a huge chunk of its tax base, and that means it will have no chance of paying back the IMF loan. Therefore – and the IMF has been quite candid about this – any further desertions from the Great Kiev Rolling Happiness Project will mean “restructuring” of the loan package. I’m sure I do not have to tell a sharp lot like the M of A commenter section what that means.

Posted by: Mark | May 15 2014 6:13 utc | 41

somebody@36
These paragraphs were at the en of that globalpost piece:
“…Ukraine’s authorities are hoping to push a de-centralization plan under which greater powers would devolve to the regions and allow them to hold back a portion of taxes for direct use in improving infrastructure and conditions for local businesses.
They hope this will defuse local grievances — and cut some of the ground from under the separatists.
But the plan’s architects are keen that they do not allow discussion of ‘federalization’ — an idea pushed by Russia and the separatists — which they fear would lead to too-great autonomy and weaken the grip of the central government.”
I agree with both of Mark’s posts above, too. It looks to me like the Kiev junta’s ‘wheels are coming off’.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 15 2014 7:03 utc | 43

This was the first of Angela Merkel’s “round table” discussions and they are supported by OSCE. Round table discussions I suppose means to get anyone prepared to talk to each other on “round tables” with OSCE support. The talks included the opposition party of the regions that used to represent Ukraine’s South East and the Communists. The talks are agreed with Russia. Somebody, #36

No, no no no no. They are not “supported by OSCE.” OSCE has refused to make any comment whatever regarding them (though that story is carefully written to obscure this fact, it cites it so as to ignore it, in fact)). Nor are they “supported by Russia,” as far as I know. Lavrov’s statements stand, as I quoted them before. I hate having to hunt back and forth for the links, but this is fairly important, so I shall do it again. OK, this is what Lavrov said 2 days ago:

It’s a pity that some people in Washington and Kiev are against including the regions in a dialogue. That is why, despite our own agreement to it, the roadmap prepared by the OSCE chairman has not been confirmed. This is further proof of Kiev’s failure to realize the need to engage in dialogue with its own people. We are convinced that this must be done as soon as possible. I am not sure it can be done in the near future, but we believe it is extremely necessary to call for a national dialogue on the basis of the proposals elaborated by the OSCE chairman. This needs to be done simultaneously with investigations into the crimes that have been committed, as also envisioned by the proposals of the OSCE chairman. Nothing will work without involving the opponents of the regime in a direct dialogue on solutions to the crisis, and the people I have talked to, including Kerry and Steinmeier, call for the use of the Geneva principles in a direct dialogue between the Ukrainian parties.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 8:20 utc | 45

I suppose they’re just trying to keep Brennan happy.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 8:49 utc | 47

Secretary of State John Kerry said in a meeting with the French foreign minister that the delivery of the vessels would not help the political situation in eastern Europe.
and
Ukraine Opens Talks, but Not With Separatists
Posted by: okie farmer | May 15, 2014 4:13:38 AM | 43
outside of israel., noone does chutzpah like the US regime

Posted by: brian | May 15 2014 9:14 utc | 49

Okie, I found the original of that part of the story, it’s Reuters. Haaretz have rolled several stories into one, hence the compound credit “AP/Reuters”. So if anybody wants the original for that bit, it’s here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/14/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-russia-idUSBREA4D0FY20140514
Unlike the Haaretz edit, it tells us what this conference thing was. It’s called GLOBSEC. Dontcha just love that soviet style terminology?

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 9:47 utc | 51

Ukrainian Euro right wing openly argues for a split of the country as it would ensure their electoral victory.
So yes, that is what they were driving at with their punishment actions.
Unfortunately for them there is this Burisma map
Crimea gone already. Yanukovich’s tender possibly illegal.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 10:14 utc | 53

54) Looks like the separatist movement closely follows Putin’s definition of language as the decisive factor.
Let’s face it, the separatists are just the same language/right wing nutters as the Kyiv lot. They probably also share the anti-oligarch stance.
The political/electoral map is different and none of the right wing ethnic fools have a chance to survive a fair election. But they have a great chance to destroy the country in a civil war fuelled by “security” services.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 11:29 utc | 55

@Rowan Berkeley (54):
I first noticed years ago, in 1991, during the abortive coup in Moscow against Gorbachev, that some in the media were referring to the coup-plotters as “right wing,” and that annoyed the hell out of me.’Right wing?’ I thought. ‘But they’re communists! How can they be right wing?’
Since then, this tendency seems to have become more common in certain sections of the media and academia in the US–the very indiscriminate, and often misleading, use of terms such as ‘right wing,’ ‘left wing,’ ‘reactionary,’ ‘radical,’ etc. It seems that some people have stripped these terms of any ideological content, and that they have now just become swear-words to be used whenever you want to denigrate somebody else in the eyes of a certain demographic.
This is exactly the kind of thing that would make Orwell come unhinged.

Posted by: James Patrick | May 15 2014 12:05 utc | 57

@RowanBerkeley – prev. #102 Did you receive my email send ca. 10hrs. ago? Posted by: Oui | May 15, 2014 7:23:36 AM | 55

Yes I did, but I destroyed it unopened. I do not open uninvited attachments. I’m not a fool.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 12:30 utc | 59

Well, I’m damned. What will Lavrov say to this?

OSCE Chairperson-in-Office commends Ukraine for successful launching of Roundtables on National Unity
OSCE, May 14 2014
BERN – Referring to today’s first roundtable on national unity, held in Kyiv, OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss Foreign Minister, Didier Burkhalter, welcomed the successful launch of a nationwide dialogue, led and owned by Ukraine. He expressed his hope that an inclusive national dialogue will contribute to stabilizing the situation towards the upcoming elections on May 25y. The launch event, chaired by two former Presidents of Ukraine, Leonid Kravchuk and Leonid Kuchma, allowed for constructive and engaged discussions and set the tone for the following editions to take place in the regions, Burkhalter said. The high-level part of this process shall be supported by Ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger, the Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office for National Dialogue Roundtables. The OSCE is ready to assist the Ukrainian authorities with its expertise and organizational support through joint efforts by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission and the OSCE Project Co-ordinator’s Office in Ukraine.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 12:41 utc | 61

Oui, that’s not the source, that’s just an earlier instance. It started earlier than that, elsewhere. I don’t even think anyone became involved in its due to that posting. It’s a specific individual who has been harassing me by doing this, on and off for a couple of years. But he uses TOR-enabled sock puppets, so it isn’t possible to identify all his sock puppets as deriving from the same place, as in fact they do, namely the town of Tzfat, or Safed, in northern Israel.

Surely, dividing people on ethnic lines is by definition a right wing reactionary project. Posted by: somebody | May 15, 2014 8:45:11 AM | 62

Yes, but I know people who can rationalise it as a form of poetic justice, while regarding themselves as in a sense the inheritors of left-wing values. I know that sounds oblique. I’m not talking about just any people, I’m talking about a specific people, who customarily think in that way. And I know them well. Too well, it seems.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 12:53 utc | 63

Ukroboronprom – see link – a ‘state’ monopoly that includes 134 cos. – arms producers all, has stopped exporting to Russia, on order of the Kiev Koup Gvmt.
Losses are mounting up day by day, millions, and cos. will have to fire or even close down. The head of this conglomerate, Yuri Tereshenko, has said that the Gvmt. will have to find funds to compensate for the losses before a long-term solution is found (!!) like selling more to the NATO/Thailand… hmmm. Meanwhile Russia has to find other providers, and has, in reprisal, blocked the export of airplane parts that Ukr. needs to maintain its fleet. -from Swiss press.
Ukroboronprom is linked to another State Co. Ukrspecexport .. These big Arms cos. are State-cum-oligarch run, and wind one into another, the same names appear again and again. In the link, you can see the names of many subsidiary cos.
http://www.ukrspecexport.com/index/index/lang/eng
wiki lays it out in part:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Defense_Industry_(company)
in Eng. from DW (Germany) 7 May
http://www.dw.de/the-faltering-kyiv-moscow-arms-alliance/a-17617661
FT has other detail, April 2, (this link may not work or bring up a subscription screen)
Title is: Russia’s reliance on Ukraine for military hardware raises fears
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9cc89022-c87b-11e3-a7a1-00144feabdc0.html

Posted by: Noirette | May 15 2014 13:03 utc | 65

Oui, #67, #68: Raz is not a particularly unusual name. I am not trying to identify Razes. We shouldn’t even be discussing this person, if person he be. It’s a waste of thread space and a scatterer of the general readers’ attention, which is what usually gets the victim of such stalking eventually banned, rather than the stalker being banned: the fact that the victim keeps using thread space to talk about it, or respond to suggestions such as yours about it, and so on. So kindly drop it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 13:29 utc | 67

Plus, van der Lubbe was deranged and of low intelligence. A perfect patsy.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 15:40 utc | 69

@ somebody 33.
The Kiev Koup Gvmt. in March 2014, awarded, ad hoc, some FF (mostly nat gas / fracking) concessions, notably to Exxon-Mobil and Shell, OMV (Austria) and Nadra (Ukr. co.), in ‘partnership schemes’, several off the coast of Crimea. Many are now reportedly in limbo. (?) – Swiss Press
Chevron has been active in Ukr. for a long time (see Condoleeza-Yats buddy-buddies) as has Shell. – Google
On 12 May Barroso met with ‘representatives’ of the present Ukr. Govmt. to plead for European participation in the Ukr. gas industry (the US seems to be taking the largest slice of the cake? Eff EU?) – News
Very opaque, and without inside knowledge impossible to figure out. The ‘facts’ above do not contribute to an overview. Most everything is kept secret, what appears in the media is coded leaks that are aimed at insiders, they can grasp the meaning, plus are alerted to what may be bruited about, what they must justify, sort of cat-n-mouse game.
Hunter Biden being parachuted at Burisma board is, imho, merely a way of imposing on a national co, a US hand, an emissary of the new masters.
I doubt the Ukr. ppl are well informed by their media / blogs / pols-gvmt / co. bosses, but idk. Some on the ground will grasp but have no voice.
Lack of information, transparency, etc. is a major contributor to internal strife, as ppl have nothing to refer to, discuss, question, so appeal to their hearts, ethnic belonging, favorite person, leader, ancestor, neighborhood, etc. A staple of ‘divide to rule.’
So – sacrificing Ukranians while behind the curtains different parties negotiate, at board meetings, suited and tied and with laptops ..in a hotel in Kiev.. or elsewhere…while on the streets looting is gathering pace. (In Donesk etc. car dealerships have been broken into and all the cars stolen.)

Posted by: Noirette | May 15 2014 15:48 utc | 71

Posted by: Noirette | May 15, 2014 11:48:42 AM | 73
Noirette, Burisma Holdings is not a national company, it is a shell connected to Privat Group of Kolomoisky.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 16:12 utc | 73

@ 75.
What is or is not private or public is moot. For ex. Le Figaro and Le Monde, French papers, are supposed to be independent press but are heavily subsidized by the French Gov.
Gazprom is probably ‘controlled’ by Putin, but it is nominally a private Co. with the State as a major shareholder. And so on.
I don’t know about Burisma precisely, so thank you for the detail, but … hey… what about the rest of my post? And what do you think the relations between a ‘private’ co. in Ukraine and the oligarchs in Gvmt., or in the shadows thereof (as they own the cos.) or about other ties, visible or not? Sincere question, I’d really like some info. Do you have some overall pov?

Posted by: Noirette | May 15 2014 16:50 utc | 75

Posted by: Noirette | May 15, 2014 12:50:41 PM | 77
1) Holding Company

Holding companies allow the reduction of risk for the owners and can allow the ownership and control of a number of different companies.

but do not get too excited of their prospects

The following diagram shows the three main hydrocarbon basins in Ukraine and the principal pipeline/transport infrastructure in the country. Natural gas and oil production began in Ukraine in the 1880s but the three key basins remain only partially explored. This is due to Ukraine’s historical reliance on imports as well as relatively high costs for developing indigenous production due to the physical depth of the gas reserves

ie. they need a conflict with Russia for being competitive with their gas.
Press describes Burisma holding as one of the few private energy companies of Ukraine.
Anti corruption action centre Ukraine

The AntAC envisions the recovery of stolen assets as one of the most effective way in fighting grand political corruption. We are currently working on a pilot case of recovery proceeds of corruption stolen by a former prime minister of Ukraine, who was convicted for money laundering and extortion in the United States.

This is their twitter account
UK – government – Home Secretary talking on the recovery of stolen assets – April 29, 2014
fun interview with Kolomoisky – badly translated

It is rather strange to hear that you are! They see you as a cynical and often step over the agreement. And now the man with the image wants to play the role of a fighter for justice and the arbitrator.
— (Long silence) You know the difference between a hamster and a rat? The difference in the PR software. Hamster so small, cute, pet, children love, are played. A rat — disgusting filthy animal from which the women faint. A difference in only one — in the PR software.

So US/EU now are talking to the oligarchs (and doing business with them) whilst US and EU policies prescribe anti-corruption and Maidan people believed in that promise and get used by it against who is the “enemy de jour” or in the words of Kolomoisky “the hamster or the rat”.

Posted by: somebody | May 15 2014 17:55 utc | 77

@70
The best part of the promulgation of the rejection of “conspiracy theories” e.g., Kennedy, 9/11, Reichstag fire is that what we are implicitly being told by these fucking gatekeeping hacks is that it is childish/immature/stupid/crazy to view major critical turning-point events throughout history as the machinations of like-mind groups of people attempting to moves human events along a commonly desired path and that rather the more sober/serious assessment of history – i.e., the one the gatekeeping whores preach about – is that we all live in a fantastical world filled with super-heroes and super-villains who time and time and time again – through their unique combinations of genius, luck, hatred, etc – single-handedly precipitate said events and forever change the course of human history – but often in ways that do ultimately seem to benefit a conspicuous cabal of shadowy players. Funny dat, huh?
Yup, in our Marvel Comics reality that the “serious” and “high-minded” among us say that we inhabit, nothing ever happens if it weren’t for the heroes and villains in our midst, their individual pluck and determination to alter the course of human history for often no better reasons than they were “lonely” or “hated us for our freedom” or whatever stupid fucking comic book shit they put into the mouths of the characters plucked from the Cult of Personality Division at the Ministry of Truth.
We who DON’T think reality is made up of the actions of individual super-heroes and super-villains are the idiots and crazies, got it?
Now, shut the eff up, crazy immature peon, go rent “Thor IV”, “Ironman VII”, “Spiderman XIII”, “The Avengers IX”, and LEARN something about how the REAL world works, mkay?

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 15 2014 18:26 utc | 79

somebody, anonymous – Kolomoisky leaked tapes
The Saker’s latest post has a translation of one of them.

Posted by: Yonatan | May 15 2014 19:52 utc | 81

Seems like a dumb ultimatum that goes out within the hour, what can they do against the army? nothing!

Posted by: Anonymous | May 15 2014 20:27 utc | 83

In fact, that second call is much more convincing than I thought it would be when I first read a brief synopsis of its contents. But I am still not convinced by it. It looks too perfect. It looks as if it was made in order to be intercepted.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 16 2014 8:30 utc | 85

“Illuminate” and “vouch for” to whom? If you mean, to the recipient of the call, this Yan Epshtein (his choice of how to spell his name speaks volumes, by the way), then you’re just confirming the official version, the received version, the version that will doubtless appear in whatever MSM may care to pick this up, if any do. But what I’m suggesting is that:
(a) the first call, the wonderfully graphic threats to Tsarov (based on a non-existent fact, apparently, in that it appears the soldier wasn’t Jewish at all, and certainly Epshtein would be right to say nothing happened in the synagogue regarding him) was genuine, but
(b) the second call was staged in order to be intercepted, which means that Noginsky (a Kiev official whose job is to promote trade with the FSU) and Epshtein (undoubtedly an Israeli official) collaborated in order to stage it, and
(c) the ex-Birkut and now pro- People’s Republic of Donetsk “cyber warriors” were somehow handed it on a plate, by some double agent, the purpose being
(d) to conceal an actual alliance between Israeli intelligence and Kolomoisky!

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 16 2014 16:07 utc | 87

L Bean, you seem to be agreeing with what I initially said, which was that the phone call was made (or simulated) in order to be intercepted. That is my key claim, and it’s one I fully expect all sorts of people to reject, saying it’s an example of my perverse and unhealthy preoccupations, etc. But if you accept the call was made in order to be intercepted, then as far as I’m concerned, you’re very welcome to tweak the implications in any direction you think makes sense. There are two things that I detect in all this, in my perverse way. One is the desire to dissociate “the Jews” (of Odessa, most of all); the other is, to exculpate Tymoshenko, because they specifically say she didn’t authorise the slaughter, only a mass beating. We have a leaked audio which also tends in that direction:

In this meeting Yulia Tymoshenko gives directions on what is to be accomplished. “First the veterans need to be attacked. There needs to be bloodshed. Odessa needs to be brought to its knees at the time of the championship (Soccer). We have to coordinate everything now.” Question to her: “On the 3rd through the 5th?” This is the gist of the translation.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 16 2014 17:24 utc | 89

That’s quality video, I must say. I get the impression that, particularly in the first few minutes after the camera reaches its final position, in front of and somewhat to the left of the building, you can see the members of the murder squads suddenly break into a run (in ones and twos only, not all at once) and head around the building via the open space on its left side, presumably to gain entry through some back access known to them. The camera does not pan after these people, and only ever offers one brief shot of the open space to the left side of the building towards which these people run. It would have been foolhardy, I suppose, for the camera-person to walk towards that space and investigate it. On the other hand, nobody seems concerned by the presence of the camera. Nobody makes any attempt to ascertain the identity of the camera-person. Perhaps s/he was wearing a reassuring pro-Ukraine emblem of some sort.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 16 2014 18:37 utc | 91