Ukraine: Continuing Thread ...
There was little significant news from Ukraine today. Fighting around various checkpoints outside of Slovyansk continued with casualties reported on both sides and of civilians but no movement of the lines.
I do expect some more serious diplomacy over the next days but the continued amateurish behavior of the State Department, discussed here, lets me believe that there will be no progress in solving the situation without more conflict.
Allegedly: A polite green man from Russia Putin's Spetsnaz special force enforcer Ukrainian woman awaiting fascists in Slovyansk.
Posted by b on May 5, 2014 at 18:35 UTC | Permalink
« previous page | next page »PS Chinese spies ( i mean journalists)
were around during NATO/EU/US bombing of Belgrade.
Thats why the US bombed Chinese embassy
(or was that a mistake?)
Posted by: chris m | May 6 2014 11:40 utc | 102
I don’t know if he read Chris Floyd: Now’s the Time to Demonize Putin, but he did read one sentence and, I don't know:
fairleft “And you have to note the timing of Floyd’s loony Russophobia: He’s decided to publish his rant as a U.S.-handpicked fascist regime in Ukraine, installed by a coup d’ etat, is killing its citizens (it calls them terrorists), while the regime and the entire Western media are blaming all the deaths and injuries on a Putin/Russia completely absent from the scene.” From: http://my.firedoglake.com/fairleft/2014/05/04/chris-floyd-nows-a-great-time-to-demonize-putin/
Chris Floyd Jesus Herbert Walker Christ, how tired one gets of the raging black-and-whitism of internet discourse. As if to say a word against Putin is “loony Russophobia.” (And “timed “– with malicious intent, of course, because I’m obviously directed by the CIA — to coincide with depredations by the Ukrainian regime: a regime whose far-right elements and American-fomented origins I’ve denounced in no uncertain terms over and over.) But nope, there can only be “good guys” and “bad guys” in big cartoon hats, in any situation, anytime, anywhere. And if you write a couple of sentences that fall outside the cartoon, why then you’re a ranting “Russophobe” and so on. I mean really, what’s the fucking point? I’ll just put up a crayon drawing next time. Carefully timed according to my orders from John Kerry, natch!
fairleft Sorry to disappoint you, but your timing was terrible and this sentence is ridiculously over the top: “Now Putin, who emerged from the dark nexus of power blocs that saved Yeltsin, fills this moonscape with empty symbols that play upon the fears and resentments of a battered people: hysterical nationalism, cartoon history, blustering machismo, fake religiosity, and “traditional values” more aligned with American Tea Party tropes than anything that has actually existed in Russian culture.” Perhaps you mistook Putin for a blustering nationalist like Alexei Navalny or Vladimir Tor, or anyone from this 2012 Moscow march opposing Putin’s rule: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/International/2012/Nov-05/193849-russian-right-wing-nationalists-rally-against-putins-rule.ashx#axzz30qtugUz7
I recomend all people here read somebody's post at 93!
Well now we know for a fact that US/NATO want war with Russia.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6, 2014 5:42:20 AM | 94
read it, and can't see why anyone would would think that it is some sort of 'must read!'
it's just the usual 'blah blah blah' anyone would expect from a professional NATO Murderer
In fact if anything it suggests, contrary to what you seem to be suggesting (if I have correctly understood the intent of your comment above), and as I and others said in another thread, that Zio-US Empire is NOT seeking any sort of direct face-to-face military confrontation between NATO-forces and Russian-forces, and that this whole 'game' is just to sucker Russia into putting boots-on-the-ground in Ukraine. (which would constitute a 'war' I suppose, just not the face-to-face NATO vs Russia war you seem to be claiming NATO is seeking)
for example the bit highlighted @93 reads
, I think it's the most troublesome for NATO because if the forces do not come across the border, my guess is that many will want to try to quickly go back to business as usual
My reading of that suggests that it confirms what I and others said earlier that the main aim of NATO right now is simply to con Russia into invading but not to confront them direct with 'official' overt Zio-US Empire forces
All I see there is Breedlove expressing the hope that Russians WILL cross the border with Mil forces
I don't read anything there that suggests NATO might directly confront Russia with NATO Mil forces, if or when the Russians invade Ukraine. (but maybe that is not what you were suggesting)
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 11:56 utc | 104
Original Chris Floyd article, with comments at bottom: http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2389-smoke-and-mirrors-the-roots-of-russian-revanchism.html
Didn't the US defense minister Chuck Hagel admonish the 28 NATO members to invest more into defense to be able to face Moscow in the long term?
Posted by: somebody | May 6, 2014 7:29:31 AM | 96
So maybe the whole thing is partly just a 'buy more of our shit weapons systems . . . or else. And btw, nice house ye got there, shame if anything were to happen to it" type sales pitch
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 12:02 utc | 106
fairleft
I like your blog and good job with this "chris floyd" never heard of him, which basically means he have nothing interesting to say.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 12:13 utc | 108
lol
Its a must read since as I just said show Nato want war with Russia. If this isnt a must read for you, so be it.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 12:14 utc | 109
lol
Its a must read since as I just said show Nato want war with Russia.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6, 2014 8:14:28 AM | 105
"Nato want war with Russia." - and how is that somehow new info? NATO clearly wants Russia involved militarily in Ukraine, but it's not like we didn't already know that.
@103
Wrong guy, I'm not he. Mr P had some interesting viewpoints
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 12:33 utc | 110
Interesting reading:
Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev
f the US State Department's Victoria Nuland had not said "Fuck the EU," few outsiders at the time would have heard of Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, the man on the other end of her famously bugged telephone call. But now Washington's man in Kiev is gaining fame as the face of the CIA-style "destabilization campaign" that brought down Ukraine's monumentally corrupt but legitimately elected President Viktor Yanukovych.
Part II: Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev
s the new US ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt was taking the measure of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych in September, Bill and Hillary Clinton visited historic Crimea. The region was still under Kiev's control, though the Russians held a long lease on bases in Sebastopol, where they keep their prized Black Sea Fleet.
This story could also explain why in September 2013 the US Navy website offered jobs for "School"-renovations in Sebastopol, Crimea. Should have saved the link, as I can't find the page anymore.
Posted by: Fran | May 6 2014 12:37 utc | 111
Solicitation Number: N33191-13-R-1240Notice Type: Cancellation
Synopsis:
Added: Apr 15, 2014 5:18 am
Due to the current climate in Ukraine, the subject solicitation is hereby cancelled.
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 13:01 utc | 113
I'm putting this here in full:
Odessa Massacre Was Clean-Up Operation by Kiev: Councilman
May 6, 2014 richardrozoff Leave a comment Go to comments
Russian Information Agency Novosti
May 6, 2014
OPINION: Odessa Massacre Was Clean-Up Operation by Kiev
MOSCOW: Odessa regional councilman Vadim Savenko has told RIA Novosti in an interview that last Friday’s massacre in Odessa bore the hallmarks of a Kiev-organized “clean-up” operation against anti-coup protesters.
“According to our data, these so-called ultras were in fact active servicemen of the Shtorm and Dnepr-1 battalions who were disguised as football fans. They are recruited from far-right nationalist organizations at the expense of [chief of the Dnipropetrovsk regional administration] Kolomiysky,” Savenko said.
The councilman said the attackers had been dressed as football fans and later put on defense equipment, bulletproof vests and took out firearms when they moved in on the camping protesters.
“Those were punitive units of sorts that operate across southeastern Ukraine, and they joined in the brawl,” Savenko explained.
He also said that crime rates in Ukraine had soared since the US-backed regime took control of Kiev and styled itself as the country’s new government.
“We don’t regard them as an authority. We regard them as a junta that seized power illegally. They pretend to be something else and are trying to convince Western Europe and America that they control the situation in the southeast,” Savenko said.
He added the regime had been striving to hush up the rampant crime rates in the country that are 3-4 times higher than official ones. “It’s 1919 we are living in now,” the Odessa official said, referring to the period after the Russian Revolution.
Last Friday, Ukraine saw the bloodiest violence since the February overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych, with dozens killed in clashes across the country. The highest casualty toll was seen in Odessa where officials say 46 people, including women and the elderly, were torched alive, suffocated or jumped to death after being blocked inside a blazing building where they tried to hide from a gang of Molotov-cocktail-carrying football fans and Right Sector radicals. Police did nothing to prevent the unrest and murder, according to eye witnesses.
Posted by: William Bowles | May 6 2014 13:05 utc | 114
lol
I and alot of others have never seen nato admit that.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 13:11 utc | 115
@Anonymous no. 104
I've read Chris Floyd's empire burlesque blog for years and I was flabbergasted when I read that one post about Putin. It was really out of place from his normal work.
Imho, it was a very poor reflection on what had previously been an interesting and informative blog. I've just got to shake my head on that one.
Posted by: sleepy | May 6 2014 13:19 utc | 120
re 83 Came across this little news item. Apparently Salmond (who wants Scottish independence) had the nerve to say something nice about Putin. He was soundly castigated by Pussy Riot. You can't make this stuff up.
Posted by: dh | May 6 2014 13:20 utc | 121
Posted by: dh | May 6, 2014 9:20:21 AM | 115
They want Putin to be the new Hitler. Anybody off script needs to be reminded.
The Chris Floyd piece is correct. It explains why Russians really, really do not want freedom thank you very much and if you call Putin a dictator they could not care less. They even might tell you that Stalin was better than Jelzin. He also explains that Putin is doing a Western/US imitation, from exceptionalism, to the glorification of history, to color revolutions.
Posted by: Fran | May 6, 2014 8:37:53 AM | 107
Thanks for the links, they show how predictable the conflict was. Some people were not listening.
The Sevastopol school story is real fun - turns out it is part of EUCOM
U.S. and Ukrainian officials celebrated the completion of two of eight humanitarian aid projects in the Ukraine where a bilateral partnership between U.S. European Command and the government there is improving the lives of Ukrainian citizens.In Sevastopol, the officials joined together to officially open a dental clinic for veterans and other senior citizens, and a Perevalsk Boarding School for Orphans and Children with Genetic Disabilities welcomed a new gymnasium when the same facility was on the verge of closure two years ago.
...
“We worked with U.S. AID to identify the project, and then once it started, it became a partnership as the local authorities did their best to complement it with their efforts — buying the municipal buses adjusted for handicapped people and making a bus stop across the clinic,” said Lyudmyla Kyrylenko, humanitarian assistance program management assistant for EUCOM’s Bilateral Affairs Office in the Ukraine.
...
The United States attaches great importance to the success of Ukraine’s transition to a democratic state with a flourishing market economy, and U.S. policy remains centered on realizing and strengthening a democratic, prosperous, and secure Ukraine more closely integrated into Europe and Euro-Atlantic structures. U.S. assistance to Ukraine is targeted to promote political, security, and economic reform and to address urgent social and humanitarian needs.
You cannot make this stuff up.
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 13:41 utc | 122
dh
Note that not one of those human rights groups have ever condemned the kiev junta or their murdering!
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 13:51 utc | 123
@115
"THE husband of one of the jailed members of the Russian feminist punk bank Pussy Riot has condemned First Minister Alex Salmond for saying he admired "certain aspects" of Vladimir Putin's leadership."
"Certain Aspects"? So if you even publicly question the media consensus that Putin is Hitler, its politically incorrect now? I mean my god, its not like Salmond was even saying Putin was a good guy or anything.
Posted by: Massinissa | May 6 2014 14:07 utc | 125
@119 It certainly doesn't bode well for independent thinking in Scotland.
Posted by: dh | May 6 2014 14:24 utc | 126
The Odessa House of Unions was a massacre, and a planned one.
- I have not read all the comments on Ukr. so some of this type of material may have been posted previous.
Luckily, there are now ppl on the case right away (see one link below, a F trans of a live.journal Ukrainian. Warning: gruesome to the extreme.)
Now, it is very easy to be misled by video and picture analysis that is either ‘fake’ or ‘heartfelt but sloppy’, taking over this or that with odd matches, conjectures, etc. Lots of fake analysis of the Boston bombings out there, was a set-up btw. I mention it deliberately.
But for this, which I haven’t looked into really (contrary to the Ghouta attacks) the pictures speak for themselves.
These people were shot, stabbed, strangled, beaten to death.
Some were then doused in inflammable liquid and set on fire, on upper body, presumably to accredit the ‘fire’ explanation. At the same time - imho, no proof is possible - there was some ‘stage setting’ in the sense that the dead were dragged and positioned to make for more dramatic pictures, in what has now become a tradition.
> The pix all show real dead ppl, but not in their ‘proper context’.. Some are peculiarly naked or missing some of their clothes, there are various explanations for that.
So, who took these pictures?
Why did the photographers make efforts towards cinematic horror and drama?
Of course, to shock, horrify, and put blame on the designated perps. At the same time, it is in your face provocation - it shouts - see the horror, and see how we present it, and we don’t care if it looks strange?
This type of photography has a long history, Holocaust (end ww2) for ex. for recent, which worked at the time, but today ppl are far more sophisticated and technically savvy, also know far more about forensics and generally ‘what things should look like’ and are on occasion more skeptical.
Interesting difference. The ‘rebels’ in Syria cobbled together fake pictures, videos, plus telephony testimony (which ppl tend to forget as it is garbled in other langs. and the image is tantamount..) Despite their meets and courses in Istanbul to learn about presentation and propaganda, of course didn’t instruct them to kill living ppl, just err err :) the ‘West’ reacts to this stuff ;)
While the advice prob went against their core values concerning false witness and false images, which was part of the point imho, they went ahead gleefully but yet with half a heart. If that makes sense. Clumsy stage management. (And it didn’t work. Ppl say because of Putin’s strategy, but imho the evidence played a big role.)
Odessa .. we see real butchered ppl, if somewhat arranged, the horror is graspable. An escalation of violence for the cameras...Gore porn.. It blasts ‘real serious’ as opposed to ‘sketchy, fake’...
Posted by: Noirette | May 6 2014 14:30 utc | 127
anonymous @ 41 posted some dates / events, in May, but stopped at May 2.
Almost right now (6 May here while I write), in a few days will be the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis.
Which is logged at like 7 - 9 May, depending.
So is next w-end to be brutal in the Ukraine?
Posted by: Noirette | May 6 2014 14:43 utc | 128
The Vineyard of the Saker now has a video up with English transcript showing how the Odessa massacre was organized.
Link to Crucial investigation into the role of the junta in the Odessa massacre (MUST READ!)
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 15:01 utc | 129
Golden Dawn statement:
Ukraine is Washington’s pretext for a conflict with Russia. The threat of conflict is evident from the flood of propaganda in the Zionist media. Putin is demonized daily as Saddam Hussein and Qaddafi were earlier, while known Zionist newspapers like the Washington Post and New York Times, present daily 'evidence' Russian troops are ready to invade Ukraine. The only things missing are the weapons of mass destruction in order to have a complete repeat.
The events in Ukraine demonstrate clearly that American imperialism has launched a strategy, the first unsuccessful steps which were Syria and Iran, weakening and elimination of Russia as a Great Power. Russia is the most serious obstacle to the American imperialism to assert its hegemony in the Middle East, East Mediterranean, and Eurasia.
https://news.vice.com/article/i-know-you-are-a-fascist-but-what-am-i
Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 6 2014 15:04 utc | 130
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/crucial-investigation-into-role-of.html
Good report but I dont agree with the ending:
"Considering all in all there was hardly anyone to plan the massacre but the crowd excited by the blood and impunity couldn’t stop."
Sometimes crowd can indeed spin out of control, but Odessa massacre was anything but. It was carefully planned and precisely executed operation from A to Z. Crowd was just a "front" and served as a cover for the real action, much like in Maidan.
The way red-bands instigated both sides, then surrounded pro-federalists, and killed them from inside and outside the building, the cold-blooded mass execution in concert with the police and fireman... I dont see any coincidences (or getting out of hand) there.
Despite very gruesome and disturbing massacre, other aspect is even more important in the long run: it was a huge strategic mistake and miscalculation on neonazis part. Odessa unlike Donetzk or Charkov wasnt that much pro-autonomy, it was mostly neutral with minorities pro and against. If referendum even happened, I'm not sure federalists would have gotten majority of votes. Neutrality is in the past now. While massacre was intended for scaring and intimidating pro-federalists (even sloppily incriminating them), but the real outcome is - a lot of Odessites became very furious at Kiyev, and if referendum would happen now, Kiyev would hardly like the outcome. Sure they can suppress the referendum (for now) and persecute dissent, but you cant suppress rising nation for long. This anti-Kiyev sentiment will get more and more speed, massacre plus persecution plus rapidly deteriorating living conditions will make the outcome inevitable - either Odessa will get autonomy or break apart from Ukraine altogether.
Another aspect, those undecided in other south-eastern regions got clear picture whats waiting for them, and joining federalists as we speak. Kiyev couldnt have sent worse message if they wanted to, its really weird. If their intention was to get Russia's invasion, that wont happen, what Kiyev achieved is people's resolve to get independence or die trying.
Posted by: Harry | May 6 2014 15:17 utc | 131
Posted by: Noirette | May 6, 2014 10:30:00 AM | 121
There is video somewhere filmed inside the trade union building immediately after the fact, so the people who entered also filmed. There is lots of video from outside from journalists and private. When you see videos of the demonstrations half of the crowd is fighting, the other half filming.
The brutes (there must have been real sadists among them) who did this were proud of what they did. I don't think the bodies were arranged, it is very easy to do dramatic photos from a scene like this.
The massacre itself obviously was provoked and staged. The football crowd and the shots that killed them (two I think) were a cover to make sense of what happened at the trade union building.
I wonder if the Odessa House of Trade Unions counts as "Government building" and if the massacre is closely connected to this here.
Ukraine’s largest bank, Privat bank, promised to pay US$10,000 for every “Moskal” – which is an insulting word used by Ukrainians to refer to Russians.“Anyone who furthermore arrests a Kremlin-backed saboteur and passes him to the National Resistance Headquarters in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast will receive $10,000. Freeing any government building will lead to a $200,000 reward, disarming separatists of their weapons could to allow earn an additional $1,000-2,000” - Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Administration press officer Kateryna Shovkova told the Kyiv Post.
The bank was founded by the country’s third richest man, Kiev-appointed governor of Dnepropetrovsk, Igor Kolomoysky
It would be interesting to know if the money has been collected.
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 15:25 utc | 132
Posted by: Harry | May 6, 2014 11:17:08 AM | 125
I agree, that is why I am even prepared to accept that Russian Secret Services did it (I don't think so, it would be a huge risk not worth taking).
I think, as in Kiew, it was planned by the oligarchs, in Kiew because they wanted to ensure there would be no power share with Yanoukovich, in Odessa, because they fear to be overtaken by Russia.
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 15:34 utc | 133
somebody @ 126, yes, ok, thx, whatever. murky.
------------
Afaik no one has referred the Ukr. Diaspora in Canada and the US.
It is “strong and vibrant community” :) ;) ..
One article:
When you slow dance with the devil you can’t see his face.
worth reading .. but i didn’t write it ok, just posting.
from the site: http://www.ukrainiandiaspora.ca/
Another organism of interest is the USUBC, the US-Ukraine-Business council.
the board of directors:
Out of allowed no. of links, so that will have to do.
Posted by: Noirette | May 6 2014 15:55 utc | 134
Posted by: Harry | May 6, 2014 11:17:08 AM | 125
Good report but I dont agree with the ending:"Considering all in all there was hardly anyone to plan the massacre but the crowd excited by the blood and impunity couldn’t stop."
Sometimes crowd can indeed spin out of control, but Odessa massacre was anything but. It was carefully planned and precisely executed operation from A to Z. Crowd was just a "front" and served as a cover for the real action, much like in Maidan.
I agree, essentially. I think in the video the end was talking about the crowd outside, who were beating survivors escaping the building and aiding junta agents who were shooting at people in the building, or trying to escape the smoke by sitting on ledges outside it. The video didn't go into much about the junta agents who were inside the building executing people. That was the 2nd part of their falseflag op., it mainly was covering the 1st part, which was getting the footies pissed off and getting/leading them to to federation protest camp outside the union building.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 16:12 utc | 135
I am absolutely convinced that US wants to drag Putin into war since all other efforts look like going completely out of bounds. Libya, Syria, Iraq - what a mess!
This time may be one time too many.
The whole FU EU 5bln$ coup in Ukraine is becoming a complete media disaster and everyday the "National Guard" or what (CIAFBI)mercenary or fascist scum do their ugly work will be a nail in Kerry's coffin.
This morning I was stunned about the reports on bavarian public radio - have they eaten chalk?
Or is it a real turning of the tide?
The Rada in Kiev is short from turmoil, let's see how far Turchinov (Russia is at war with us!)goes to save his arse. I mourn the dead and hope for a peaceful solution.
Anything new from the Ketchup Boy or his carrot Psaki?
Posted by: slirs | May 6 2014 16:18 utc | 136
@124 Louis Proyect .. from the link at bottom of your post. "But the real lesson is that if a person either claims they are fascist or screams about someone else being fascist, then it's probably pretty safe to ignore them."
it would be great if people took the same approach to the western media that are demonizing putin and russia 24/7 as well, but alas that wasn't your point was it?
Posted by: james | May 6 2014 16:20 utc | 137
Link to Odessa tragedy is provocation organized by Kiev – experts
Some Western experts are convinced that what happened in Odessa on May 2 was a provocation organized by Kiev with the tacit approval of Washington and Brussels.Nebosja Malic, a Serbian historian and political analyst, told the Russia Today television: "According to all the evidence that I have seen, the entire thing in Odessa was a giant false flag operation. It was a provocation, it was one of those stage massacres that the pro-Western forces from Bosnia to Kosovo, now Ukraine excel at staging, intended to draw Russia to overreact to commit military forces so that the coup government as well as its sponsors in the West could have justification in saying, 'Oh that is the case of Russian invasion, and everything we have been saying is correct.' I believe that the fact that they are willing to stage such a horrendous atrocity shows the depth of their desperation at this point."
"We have proof that the West is instigating this. And just the other day, Catherine Ashton, the EU's commissioner for foreign policy, pretty much gave a green light to the extremists from Kiev. She pretty much said they had a right to establish law and order within the borders of the country. I would say that the EU has blood on its hands, especially Catherine Ashton. It's the same thing they did in Yugoslavia in the 90s, when they started encouraging radicals, extremists, secessionists. They could do no wrong. On the other hand, legal authorities in Yugoslavia could do no right. Well it’s almost the same thing, but the other way around now in Ukraine," echoed Serb political analyst Aleksandar Pavic.
In the opinion of Eric Draitser, an independent geopolitical analyst based in New York City, the Odessa massacre and the so-called "counterterrorist" operation in eastern Ukraine are part of the US-backed policy pursued by the Kiev regime.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 16:31 utc | 138
Posted by: Noirette | May 6, 2014 11:55:24 AM | 128
from your link (thanks)
I have written about Mr. Kolomoisky in a few of the articles I have published. He was the Oligarch who said about the protests in southeast Ukraine: "Give them what they want. We can hang them later." Both he and another Oligarch were reported on the news today, because they are hiring mercenary groups to quell any protests and maintain order in the regions they control.
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 16:34 utc | 139
Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 6, 2014 11:04:27 AM | 124
R2P is the new way to sell mass murder to a western public no longer motivated enough by the 9/11 falseflag and war on terror nonsense to support western wars of aggression. R2P worked for you guys in Yugoslavia, so you revived this despicable propaganda in order to sell your post Iraq War wars. By all measures of morality, promoting R2P is as much a war crime as Goebbels promoting nazi aggression and genocide. The results are the same for the victims. Just so you know...
-------------
Link to Russia does not organize color revolutions, let alone brown-hued ones - FM Lavrov
Russia does not promote regime change and color revolutions in other countries, said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. "We don't do regime change, we don't do color revolutions, let alone brown-hued ones like those in Ukraine," he told a press conference after a session of the Council of Europe Committee of Ministers. At the same time, Russia is not walking away from contacts with the current Kiev authorities, Lavrov said. "We are not walking away from contacts with our Ukrainian counterparts, and one result of such contacts was the Geneva Statement of April 17," the minister said.Western partners are not ready to agree to the equitable participation of southeastern Ukraine in the national dialogue, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.
"Practical steps can be taken only by the Ukrainians themselves if they are not restrained from cooperating with each other. Alas, our Western partners are not ready to agree to the equitable participation of southeastern Ukraine in the national dialogue," Lavrov told a press conference in Vienna.
Disagreements had been growing in Ukraine but, clearly, "the Western partners in the EU and the US actively used them to promote their unilateral agenda, their unilateral interests in disregard of the interests of the entire Ukrainian people," the minister stressed.
"We honestly speak about that, in particular, with our American and European colleagues. They claim this is not so. But if this is not so, then anything is possible and let us not tear Ukraine apart between the East and the West but pool efforts and help start the dialogue, which can coordinate practical steps towards the fulfillment of all agreements and statements," Lavrov said, Interfax reports.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 16:51 utc | 140
further to that "Kolomyski has used Privat's "quasi-military forces" to enforce hostile takeovers of companies, sending a team of "hired rowdies armed with baseball bats, iron bars, gas and rubber bullet pistols and chainsaws" to forcibly take over a Kremenchuk steel plant in 2006"
at least the guy is consistent. and this is one of the oligarch's that the new gang in kiev thought would be worth leading in eastern ukraine because he is 'good with money'? great..
Posted by: james | May 6 2014 16:53 utc | 141
Demian, I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly about "The Americans" on FX. It's brilliant propaganda. The Russians are shown as smarter and more capable, yes, but to their detriment, because in being so capable at their 'job' they are also ruthless murderers, uninvolved parents, adulterers, and probably most importantly, masters of disguise(the show is really far-out fantastical and Disneyfied wrt 'spycraft')etc. All for 'The Motherland'. It's EXTREMELY Anti-Russian, in the most comprehensive way possible given the audience. It shows Russians to be duplicitous, soulless automatons who when all is said and done will kill you when TSHTF. Plus you will never know where they are lurking - they could be your neighbors!! The show's premise is that the KGB groomed teenagers to be American and then send them there in pairs as married couples, where they will eventually have 'American' children who never suspect their parents' real occupation, etc. Ludicrous, but TV gold.
The show's creator Joe Weisberg is a former CIA agent and his brother works for WaPo's Slate(Foreignpolicy.com).
We are being programmed. Look at the timing. It's a 'good' show w phenomenal acting, so no one will raise these points.
Posted by: L Bean | May 6 2014 17:00 utc | 142
RT report that military have "started"/kept on fighting today.
http://rt.com/news/157184-mariupol-ukraine-assault-military/
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 17:51 utc | 143
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6, 2014 8:13:42 AM | 108
Thanks. Chris Floyd's writing style is incendiary in a good way for the first 5-10 columns, then gets wearying. He should pull back a bit and think once in awhile. Think about timing, for instance, and about whether he got up on the wrong side of the bed the morning of 'big column'.
The Crimea Referendum 15 % myth
It appears that Professor Gregory is intent on deceiving his readers about the vote in Crimea and its legitimacy, probably as part of the widespread campaign to deny the people of Crimea their legitimate rights to self-determination and to demonize Russia in the process.Professor Gregory and Forbes should give a full account of this episode. In addition, the institutions to which Professor Gregory belongs, including the Hoover Institution at Stanford, the University of Houston where he is Cullen Professor of Economics and the German Institute for Economic Research in Berlin where he is a research professor should have a close look at what this deception says about his intellectual integrity.
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 18:01 utc | 145
About Booman Tribune, et al
Eurotrib is also not accepting citations from any source except mainstream media such as NYT
Posted by: Stevesim | May 6 2014 18:22 utc | 146
Chris Floyd, like all the former Moscow Times journalists has a real blind spot concerning Russia. This is a pity because it means he has a hole in his brain. Though it is not quite so big as the one in Louis Proyect's.
There is a desperate rearguard action being fought by the pro-imperialist "left" who have painted themselves into a political corner by their support for the imperialist cause in Libya, Syria and now the Ukraine. This one of the few positive aspects of this bloody and dangerous revival of fascism: the credibility of large sections of the pseudo Marxist left has dissolved. This clears the ground for real revolutionary action from a generation untrammelled by the cowardice and defeatism of a leadership which never lost sight of the reality that parasites have a vested interest in ensuring that their hosts don't die.
There is an interesting, in some ways weird piece by Floyd Rudmin
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/
at Counterpunch today. It has a very moderate tone, which will offend some people and endorses compromises that most of us would find unnecessary but he is very good on one area in particular:
"...5) Investigate all oligarchs for financial crimes. The motivation for many of the original Maidan Square protesters was to rid Ukraine of corrupt government run by oligarchs, for oligarchs... European and US financial crime units and tax authorities should investigate all Ukrainian oligarchs. All of them. Pro-European oligarchs, pro-Russian oligarchs, and ordinary gangster oligarchs. The acting government of Ukraine is again in the hand of oligarchs. For example, Igor Kolomoysky was given Dnepropetrovsk to govern, and Sergey Taruta was given Donetsk to govern. Both are billionaires. Even Arseniy Yatsenyuk, acting leader of Ukraine, has explained that he himself had €47,000 ($65,000) of bank interest income. Presuming a high return of 3% interest, then he has around €16 million ($23 million) in bank deposits. That is not counting real estate or other investments. How did a civil servant in a poor nation acquire that kind of wealth? Someone should inquire. All financial crimes, by any of the oligarchs, no matter what their positions of power or where they have stashed their cash, should be prosecuted. Stolen money and unpaid taxes should be recouped to Ukraine’s national budget...."
Rudmin has a touching faith not only in international institutions such as the UN but in the US government's honesty. But the facts he elicits are significant. How did Yats the career civil servant amass such wealth? And how much of the $5 billion that the US government paid for regime change went into his pockets?
The desperation of the "West" and their fascist clients to conquer the Ukraine stems from the fact that the stark reality of Ukraine's situation, apparent to every honest person in the country, is that this wealthy state has been robbed blind by oligarchs. The blindingly obvious solution to the country's economic difficulties is to repossess the wealth that the oligarchs have stolen and use it for the general good.
That is as clear to the gum chewing Obama fans who ate Victoria Nuland's poisoned cookies as it is to the Gorkyan beauty at the top of this post.
So clear that the oligarchs and their friends -the capitalist class of western europe, the City of London and Wall St- see it too. That is why they are cheerfully employing their Nazi friends to protect their ill gotten gains.
Parry's piece on the Nazis and the oligarchs, which recalls Reagan's public embracing of these people, "Ukraine's Dr Strangelove Reality", is at Common Dreams.
Posted by: bevin | May 6 2014 18:26 utc | 147
Whaaa? Proyect is back?!?. What happened LP? Last time we heard from you, Dec 12, 2013, you had this to say:
"Thank you for confirming my suspicions that Moon of Alabama is a pole of attraction for scum. Bye-bye."
Posted by: ruralito | May 6 2014 18:50 utc | 148
Proyect was here not too long ago, a few hours after someone mentioned him in a post.
So obviously he spends most of his time googling himself. Which explains a lot.
Posted by: L Bean | May 6 2014 18:58 utc | 150
@fairleft no. 144
At heart, I think Chris Floyd is an anarchist, or at least someone who thinks no political figure should be placed on a pedestal, and that governments themselves by nature are incapable of representing anyone but the entrenched interests of their nation. And that would include Putin. My basic sentiments agree with that.
None of which excuses his lame efforts of "balance" between Putin and Yeltsin, or the implied "balance" between Putin and the Ukrainian coup government.
Posted by: sleepy | May 6 2014 19:10 utc | 151
Great idea by Donetzk Republic
freeze all debt payments owed to a bank. Might catch on in "the West".
Posted by: somebody | May 6 2014 19:38 utc | 152
good summary, for french speakers
http://www.les-crises.fr/ukraine-la-politique/
Posted by: Mina | May 6 2014 19:48 utc | 153
This will not be helpful:
Ukrainian parliament votes against autonomy referendum — RT News
The Ukrainian parliament has voted against holding an all-nation referendum which would pave way to giving more autonomy to the regions – one of key demands issued by protesters in the country’s south-east.
Posted by: Fran | May 6 2014 19:48 utc | 154
Preliminary investigation shows that the it was, of course, the pro-Russian "rebels" who started the fire and thus were the cause of the horrific events in Odessa.
Seriously - and this is not even for those complete fucking retards - after all of the needless murders and war crimes they have supported over and over again - like Proyect whose existences do indeed make this planet a worse place for millions of innocent people as they directly condone said Western war crimes and then provide cover for those who commit those crimes - I just have to ask this again and again and again of every single person of conscience on the left or right - fake and otherwise: is this enough for everyone to stop pulling their fucking punches when speaking to the murderous war criminality of the US and its puppets, a criminality that has gone on for fucking far too long or do we have to continue to march along the path of complete and utter moral degradation on our way to offing ourselves as a species before we hear hear a unified chorus of "enough"?
As I have tried to point out before ANY KIND OF MITIGATION of these crimes and said responsibility for those crimes should be screamed down and those people making such claims should be rightfully labeled fellow war criminals. The US started this, the US funded this, the US ONCE FUCKING AGAIN is responsible for every single horrific image you see in the above link.
Anyone using ANY AMELIORATING NONSENSE in their discussion of these crimes should be viewed as either a fucking clueless unwitting bullshitter or a propagandist war criminal. Period. This means when speaking to the crimes in Odessa..or Syria...or Libya...or Iraq...or Afghanistan...or Central America..etc etc these following topics if broached should brand you as fucking POS bullshitter or a war criminal:
1) the "evil" nature of the leader as in: the situation in Syria is terrible BUT Assad...Odessa was terrible but Putin....
No more of this fucking seemingly insightful "analysis" should be tolerated by ANYONE who reads it and if you do then realize that YOU ARE ALSO either a fucking nimrod or aiding and abetting war crimes.
2) moral relativism as concerns atrocities as in: Odessa is bad but those Maidan protestors who got sniped....Iraq is terrible but 9/11...or any of that fucking nonsense.
You scribes have had at least 10+ fucking years - but more like 20? 30? 40? - to have done the research/studied history and to have come to the same conclusions that many regular people already have: the US is a nation led by murderous psychotic war criminals who are/have been INTENTIONALLY needlessly murdering/raping/maiming millions upon millions of innocent people.
Fake left writers, if you are really NOT fuckhead bullshitters or willing war criminal propagandists, then grow the fuck up or at least grow more human and demand - IN EVERY FUCKING COLUMN YOU WRITE - that the US leaders needs to be prosecuted for war crimes so that that every common pissant should begin to think "war criminal" whenever they hear the names "Obama", "Clinton", "Bush", "Kerry", "McCain", etc etc etc mentioned on TV or the Internet. Grow a fucking pair and correctly label the events of 9/11 as the false flag it was so that many of the well-intentioned but still sleeping peons can begin psychologically waking to the dystopian reality that has been apparent to many for years.
The process of coming to terms with the sheer and utterly murderous nature of the TPTB is - especially in the American/Western propagando-sphere - difficult and it takes even some of the brightest people a while to fully acclimate themselves to this "new" reality. QUIT FUCKING STANDING IN THEIR WAY AND HELP THEM, YOU FUCKS!
Any waffling, mitigation or analysis you may bring to the table however well-intentioned (fucking gag me) - and contrary to what your inflated paychecks and cushy celebrity lifestyles may tell - you does NOTHING to further mankind along a path of ending America's aggressive War of Terror. It just doesn't.
Why? Why do I get so pissed when I see seemingly intelligent people either say that America's murderous war criminality is either 1) a complex issue that needs study and analysis and 2) a product of sheer incompetence or a mixture of both?
Pay attention, now kids:
Because these are the EXACT SAME tactics/techniques that defense attorneys use to get their murderously guilty clients off the hook: if you can't confuse the jury by blinding them with expert witnesses - read: think tankers, pundits and propagandist journos, etc - then try the incompetence route as then the jury/judges will allow your client to cop to a lesser please e.g. manslaughter, criminal negligence, etc.
Yup, 9/11 was just the product of complexity and incompetence...as was Central/South American, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine etc etc.
I guess rational people have just NO OTHER choice than to let said murderous war criminals off scot-free. Oh well.
Gee, it's almost like a conscious strategy employed by TPTB, huh? Naaaaaah.
This is why I get so fucking pissed at fake left writers who mildly suggest that they and their readers are finally coming around to recognizing the true nature of America's war criminals: it's because they really are NOT getting any closer and are in fact - in this latest war of aggression, the GWOT - AT LEAST 10+ fucking years behind as concerns their perceptions of justice and all the while with TPTB a la Odessa not slowing down a bit.
Many lesser folk already know that Odessa is of course just another stop along the war crime trail that the US has been engaged in for decades and that every person who is even tangentially involved in ANY OF THESE OR PREVIOUS war crimes should be vilified, reviled, prosecuted, jailed and....?
However, until those who write/opine actually and consistently start to treat these murderous war criminals as such and NOT as complex/conflicted actors or incompetent bunglers - as the carefully constructed will we begin to see perceptions begin to change in the masses.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 6 2014 19:52 utc | 155
@L Bean #142:
It is of course possible that I am misreading The Americans, given that I am effectively bicultural, belonging to both Russian and American culture. However, from the discussion of the show I saw at IMDB (haven't looked recently), I did not get the impression that the audience is being "programmed" to be anti-Russian.
I think the show needs to be considered as a successor of Breaking Bad. Walter White, originally a school teacher down on his luck, turns into a monster driven only by his vanity and avarice. The show is notable for having its main character be utterly amoral. The Russians in The Americans, in contrast, are most definitely not portrayed as amoral. Their motivation is portrayed as perfectly rational—loyalty to their country and authentic belief in its political ideology—and they are shown to suffer anguish at what they have to do in order to perform their jobs. For example, Philip initially refrained from playing to Martha the doctored recording he made, when it seemed that he could get her to do what he wanted without playing it. When KGB agents kill in the show, they do so for rational reasons, as part of their jobs. When the FBI or CIA kills, in contrast, they do so purely for revenge. (The sole exception I can think of is when Philip and Elizabeth's original handler killed the CIA guy who ran the assassinations of KGB officials in Moscow, but that character was portrayed much less sympathetically than any other Russian. She also has the widow of a Russian agent killed, but she keeps that from Philip and Elizabeth.) The only time Philip or Elizabeth kill out of revenge, they kill a high-ranking KGB official, who had raped Elizabeth when she was in spy school.
Finally, Philip and Elizabeth often express their bewilderment that the US government can be so evil. I really think that this series is more of a mirror on America than a propaganda vehicle for demonizing Russia.
Falseflag operation details leaked.
Link to В Донецк привезли российскую военную форму для провокаций
(Yandex translation)
In Donetsk brought Russian uniforms for provocationsSource RIA in power Agency reported that ammunition and identity are planning to use in the simulation of attacks on the Ukrainian border guards.
According to an anonymous interlocutor of Agency, the Russian form and forged documents were taken from Khmelnitsky.
- The SBU sent from Kyiv to Donetsk about twenty people from the bodyguard of the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk region Kolomoisky. In Donetsk, the group met representatives of the "Right sector". The group was accompanied by the cargo, which consists of around 200 sets of military equipment of the Russian military, and about 70 of the forms of identity cards of officers of the Armed forces of Russia, - said the source of RIA.
According to the source, form and documents required for use in the simulation of attacks on the Ukrainian border guards:
- The task to carry out an attack on the Ukrainian border guards in uniform Russian sample and record what is happening on the camera," he said.
Kolomoisky in the thick of it again. 20 of his personal bodyguards were to dress in Russian soldiers uniforms, even carry forged Russian documents, use Russian arms matching those of Russian soldiers and carry out a falseflag attack on an Ukrainian border guard post. This would be filmed as it happened for the usual demonizing propaganda effect.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 20:01 utc | 157
Demian, the propaganda is not in the sympathetic characters or the writing - it's in their actions, which are anything but, and to add, the real 'Americans' in the show are never portrayed in this way. The protaganists may moan about their enemies' actions but everyone(the audience) 'knows' that the FBI and CIA only have America's interests at heart.
The audience processes the actions of the Russians no matter how sympathetic their characters are in their personal vignettes. And by their actions they are brutal, duplicitous, immoral, and completely alien in nature given their manchurian candidate-style upbringing and arranged marriage. The premise of the show is what backs the meme up - as IF Russia would basically breed spies to be 'real Americans' from adolescence, and as if "Russians" would be so depraved as to allow this type of policy, which includes murdering a few people a month and carrying on parallel fake marraiges to their already fake 'real' marriage - well of course, they're eeebil commies, natch! Barely human, these guys!
The 'anguish' displayed by the operatives is facile vis a vis their actions, which is what sticks in the mind of the audience. On any given episode they present as serial murderers, polygamists, neglectful parents. And then there's the unstated opulence of their home, and their successful travel agency 'front' - no human in their right mind in that situation would 'hate America', only the inscrutable commie with his devilish ways.
Like I said it's subtle, and really very well acted so of course there will be no discussion of this on IMDB - IMDB posts/reviews are 99% politically ignorant. There is however, one review from a Russian ex-pat who has basically the same impression of it that I do.
Posted by: L Bean | May 6 2014 20:21 utc | 158
VoR now has an article published on the falseflag.
Link to Ukrainian forces prepare provocation against Russia in Donetsk
Russian military uniforms and fake IDs of Russian officers have been taken to the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk to stage an attack on Ukrainian border guards, a Ukrainian law enforcement official told RIA Novosti Tuesday on condition of anonymity. "The task is to stage an attack on Ukrainian border guards by people dressed in Russian military uniforms and make a video of it," he said."The SBU [Ukraine's security service] has transferred about 20 personal bodyguards of Dnepropetrovsk Region governor [Igor] Kolomoisky from Kiev to Donetsk. In Donetsk, the group was met by members of the Right Sector [ultranationalist movement]. The group accompanied a cargo of about 200 sets of Russian military uniforms and about 70 [blank] IDs of Russian military officers," the source said.
The Nuland harpy is already preparing the media for the falseflag:
Link to Kiev intensifies military op in Eastern Ukraine LIVE UPDATES
18:59 GMT:There’ll be more sanctions put forward against Russia if its troops cross the border to “destabilize” the Ukrainian election on May 25, Victoria Nuland, US Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, warned.
However, she stressed the doors for a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine crisis aren’t yet shut, Interfax news agency reports.
Also, recently, the American NATO commander, Breedlove, had publicly lamented the fact the west has failed to get Russia to invade the Ukraine. It's obvious a Russian entry into the Ukraine is very important to the western gangsters/banksters planning. Pity those Russians are being so uncooperative.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 20:24 utc | 159
scalawag 157
Exactly hopefully Russia wont go into the trap. Russia is "sorta" winning by doing nothing while nato cries and lose.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 20:31 utc | 160
Kolomoisky in the thick of it again. 20 of his personal bodyguards were to dress in Russian soldiers uniforms, even carry forged Russian documents, use Russian arms matching those of Russian soldiers and carry out a falseflag attack on an Ukrainian border guard post. This would be filmed as it happened for the usual demonizing propaganda effect.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6, 2014 4:01:55 PM | 155
These sort of reports/rumours makes one wonder about the accepted "respectable" views of events leading up to WW2
Gleiwitz, for example
There's a theory knocking about that Gleiwitz 1939, was a flase flag event, carried out by the Polish nationalists (or whatever ye wanna call em, certain people here being very emotionally attached to their easy to understand/overly-simplistic labels after all ;-) under Piłsudski
Given the sort of duplicitious nonsense we see every day now in the MSM, such theories become less and less "fantastic" by the minute
Of course this theory is promulgated by the sort of people that also promulgate the theory the Russian forces were so unprepared for Operation Barbarossa because they were about launch their own Barbarossa against Germany, and so had all the wrong maps, Info etc. so certain regular commenters here will probably have an apoplectic fit after reading what I just wrote, but that can't be helped cos they're kinda prone to apoplectic fits after all ;-)
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 20:32 utc | 161
Ukraine Liveblog: Tymoshenko Claims Ukraine Needs Another Revolution if She Loses Elections.
http://inagist.com/all/463711738094161920/
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2014 20:36 utc | 162
For a great example of the kind of fucking bullshit I mean here's journo celebre Bobbie "Fuck You 9/11 Truthers" Parry ending his "Ukraine’s ‘Dr. Strangelove’ Reality" column with this sentence:
What the Reagan administration apparently didn’t understand three decades ago – and what the U.S. State Department still has not seemed to learn today – is that there is a danger in stirring up the old animosities that divide Ukraine, east and west.
Really, Bobby you little whore? The State Dept - much less the murderous war criminals in the Reagan admin - just DOESN'T/DIDN'T UNDERSTAND what they are/were doing?!!!That documents in REAGAN'S FUCKING LIBRARY paint a softer more moral/incompetent picture of the boys Ronnie employed?!!Gee, lucky Ronnie's archivists saved those papers for posterity so you and your ingenue eyes could lap them up, huh, Bobby? Holy fuck.
Wulp, I guess you can't blame any of them then, huh? That they just did not know what kind of murderous shit they were trying to instigate then and they just have NO IDEA of what they're really trying to do now, huh?
The only real question left:
Robert Parry: stupid fucking clueless bullshitter or bought-off war criminal?
Because while it APPEARS that he's really taking it to The Man about how bad the reporting on Odessa/Ukraine is he still sure ensconces himself safely within the realm/role of war criminal defense attorney with his closing statements.
Those bad bad NYT reporters!!Tsk tsk.Don't listen to them!
Instead, listen carefully, fake left kiddies, as I tell you one of my favorite bedtime stories:
"The Little American Leaders That Could (Not Get Anything Right As They Successfully Murdered Millions and Millions of Innocent People, Displaced Millions More and Stole All of Their Shit for Decade and Decades)"
Yup, 30+ years covering the murderous American deep state and the jury is still out in Parry's mind.
Man, TPTB must have some kind of defense attorney, huh?
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 6 2014 20:50 utc | 163
Posted by: Anonymous | May 6, 2014 4:36:55 PM | 160
"Tymoshenko Claims Ukraine Needs Another Revolution if She Loses Elections."
Here is an idea the Ukraine could try to alleviate its Tymoshenko problem. Recognize her as the Emperor Of The Ukraine, like San Franciscans did with this gentleman:
Link to Norton I
Emperor of the United States and
Protector of Mexico
Provide her with all the pomp and circumstance such an august position requires and I'm sure she will be happy.
Posted by: scalawag | May 6 2014 20:54 utc | 164
@161
Its the "incompetence theory" writ large.
Perfect tool of the fake left, cos it absolves all the guilty parties.
It absolves the perpetrators cos, like, they're just poor old incompetents who don't know their ass from their elbow, aint they?
And it absolves the fake leftists that promote this ridiculous theory cos they can then avoid responsibility for their constant attempts at misdirecting everyone when it comes to apportioning blame where it really belongs
For example just the other day, right here on this very website, one of this sites premier "incompetence theory pimps", the fake left pseudo-intellectual pompous Canadian pseudo-dissident Professor himself, was shilling like a jonesin' whore, running interference for the fucking Rothschild clan, of all things
Cos, as any fool knows, the fucking Rothschild Clan may very well be the most put upon discriminated-against and misrepresented Billionaire-clan in the universe, the poor likkle dears. And obviously only someone as bad as Hitler would ever stoop so low as to disparage their good name.
Apparently now its considered not only divisive but by golly downright antisemetic to dare to discuss the methods employed by the Rothscild clan to hide the extent of their power and wealth.
Shame on me apparently for even mentioning it.
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 21:37 utc | 165
"Incompetent discriminated-against Multi-Billionaires!"
What a truly magnificantly moronic fake-left invention
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 21:45 utc | 166
@153
Correction:
However, until those who write/opine actually and consistently start to treat these murderous war criminals as such and NOT as complex/conflicted actors or incompetent bunglers - as the carefully constructed media personalities they have crafted dictate - will we begin to see perceptions begin to change in the masses.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 6 2014 21:51 utc | 167
PS
I sincerely apologise to every crack/heroin-addicted sex-worker in the universe for my needless and insulting comments in a previous post when I erroneously and very insensitively compared them to one of this site's premier "incompetence theory pimps", the fake left pseudo-intellectual pompous Canadian pseudo-dissident Professor himself.
It was a completely unwarranted and unessecary comparison, for which I sincerely apologise, since, due to the crippling effects of their addictions, crack/heroin-addicted sex-workers have at least a damn good excuse for what they do for a living, whereas anyone shilling for the fucking Rothschild clan, of all people, really has no excuse at all at all for their behaviour, other than being a complete and utter duplicitious little cunt
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 23:02 utc | 168
@103
'
It’s also true that Vladimir Putin could never have gotten to his position at the top of Russia, counter to the interests of U.S. capital, without playing dirty and aggressively.';
eh? id like to see evidence on that typical caveat.....
the fear most people have is of being attacked if you say anyting nice about President Putin...for me...bring it on! ive seen nothing to remotely suggests Putin got his position by 'playing dirty and aggressively' and bis time in office has been a godsend for russians....which is why he is attacked as aggressively and dirtly as he is by just about ever middle class pro. Others whio also sufffer the same were Chavez and gadaffi, are castro, Mugabe Assad ...
as for Floyd:
'This is the rotten foundation upon which the increasingly ugly regime of Vladimir Putin is built. A culture, a country, a people savaged over and over through a century of unprecedented upheaval and violence were once again subjected to a firestorm of chaos that killed 3 million innocent people and left millions more stripped of hope, of opportunity, of meaning. Now Putin, who emerged from the dark nexus of power blocs that saved Yeltsin, fills this moonscape with empty symbols that play upon the fears and resentments of a battered people: hysterical nationalism, cartoon history, blustering machismo, fake religiosity, and "traditional values" more aligned with American Tea Party tropes than anything that has actually existed in Russian culture. He rails against the West but he rules a mirror image of it: a violent, militarized crony-capitalist pigsty that degrades and deceives its own people while directing their anger and confusion toward outsiders. In many ways, it's the American Cold Warriors’ dream come true: we have finally turned the Russians into us.
The conflict in Ukraine has many causes -- not least the meddling of American apparatchiks and oligarchs to engineer the overthrow of the elected government and destabilize the region. But if Western governments find themselves puzzled by the motives and moves of the Russian regime that now vexes them, they need only look in the mirror, and it will all become clear.
'
http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2389-smoke-and-mirrors-the-roots-of-russian-revanchism.html
he cant see thru the selfgenerated smoke...FYI floyd..the crisis in Ukraine has ONE cause...US empire burlesque. ITEM: note for Chris, west has 'governments' russia has a 'regime'
Posted by: brian | May 6 2014 23:06 utc | 169
Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 6, 2014 11:04:27 AM | 130
Louis quotes a NINI article focusing on a Golden Dawn attributed atatement which articulates what i'd take to be the truth...
you dont need to be Einstein to grasp Louis business here...For the Unrepentent Fascist..sorry Marxist...MOA is equivalent to Golden Dawn
Posted by: brian | May 6 2014 23:25 utc | 170
VICE is proof you can go to a country and still not understand whats happening, mainly because you too are infiltated with the worm of russiaphobia
so following Louis, VICE says:
'But the real lesson is that if a person either claims they are fascist or screams about someone else being fascist, then it's probably pretty safe to ignore them. By no means should anyone ever form a serious opinion on anything that person says. Also, don’t believe everything you read on the internet.'
lets forget the marches for Bandera or the nazi era, the use of nazi sigils...there is NO repeat NO fascisn on offer in Ukraine...and you can be safely ignored if you say there is!
is this a new way to wean readers off Russia Today?
Posted by: brian | May 6 2014 23:31 utc | 171
I hate to defend Chris Floyd but more of his kind of writing, should it get released into the mainstream, would be a positive development. At least, he is asking people to look at what the US did to Russia in the decade after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, he then has to trash Putin's Russia probably to prove to his fellow progressives that he is really on the side of the humanitarian left.
Reminds me of Albert Camus who spent the Algerian war of independence objecting to violence on both sides. To one degree that was a politically irrelevant position, but then he probably helped turn the French public against continuing the war.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 6 2014 23:38 utc | 172
in Mariupol
Russian Market @russian_market • 5h
1 killed, 3 pro-Russian activists injured at the checkpoint to Mariupol
• ReplyRussian Market @russian_market • 5h
#HappeningNow Church bells heard ringing in Mariupol to alert residents of the incoming threat.
• ReplyRussian Market @russian_market • 5h
#HappeningNow Ukrainian forces start storming #Mariupol
Posted by: brian | May 6 2014 23:49 utc | 173
I realise my comments, when taken all together, might seriously confuse certain individuals as to motive etc, . . . BUT . , . Perhaps brian, you could enlighten us with your truly magnificent thoughts regarding this apparent BBC (British Govt propaganda apparatus) puff piece concerning the seemingly austere managerial style of Mr Putin
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XfbWnDXCx8
"Staged" or "unstaged", would you say?
Enquiring minds wish to know!
Before you answer, it might be constructive, mayhap, to consider the possibility, however slight, that maybe, just maybe, it might first seem desirable to certain vested interests, that in order to actually have a "successful" truly large-scale war (i.e. MUCH bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan) , one must first manipulate a rather large section of the population, on BOTH SIDES, into wanting one
AND, consider that it might also be deemed desirable, by aforesaid hypothetical "vested interests", to stage certain rather barbaric provocations, such as the recent slaughter in Odessa, in order to manipulate large sections of the populations on both sides, into desiring war, if only for base "revenge" purposes
Posted by: lol | May 6 2014 23:50 utc | 174
From the latest Guardian article on the Ukraine:
The official figure for those killed in the clashes between pro-Ukraine groups and pro-Russia activists currently stands at 46. Local police refused to rule out that more deaths could be confirmed. An investigation with the assistance of experts from Europe and Israel was ongoing, said Odessa's new police chief Ivan Katerinchuk.The government in Kiev intensified its efforts to reassert control, with the appointment of a new governor and the arrival of national guard units from Kiev.
A new interior ministry law enforcement group called Storm would be used to guard many public buildings, according to Katerinchuk. […]
Kiev has accused Russia of stirring up tension with propaganda that the interim government formed after President Viktor Yanukovych fled in February was made up of "fascists"…
You can't make this stuff up.
Let's hope the bulk of the actual experts who expose the Odessa attack for what it was don't also insist we believe Sandy Hook, Aurora, Colorado, Edward Snowden etc etc are all false flags and that war criminals can't be both criminal and incompetent.
Posted by: truthbetold | May 6 2014 23:55 utc | 176
What if russia sends a high level diplomat peaceful observation group to each city in trouble?
Could the ukranian army risk to kill those russian diplomats?
Posted by: JJ | May 7 2014 0:17 utc | 177
demian #173. The inclusion of Israelis in that Odessa investigation struck me as odd also. It does, however, make some sense and might even be positive. We all know that in the last three decades about 1.5 million "Russians" immigrated to Israel. What is not so obvious from that claim is that many (close to half?) came from Moldova and Ukraine. Many of these emigres have ties to family in Ukraine. So it stands to reason that they would have a good understanding of the local politics, culture and language. There is a reasonable chance that these people could play a positive role in these investigations. After all, Israel made itself absent in the vote against Russia over Crimea. The Israelis have a policy independent from Washington here and they may want to ingratiate themselves with the Russians.
I would not automatically distrust having Israelis involved in this investigation.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 7 2014 0:19 utc | 178
JSorrentine: anywhere the names of Obama, Bush, Hayden, Rice, Brennan, Kissinger et. al. appear in print, the prefix 'war criminal' should be appended. The same in speech. This trend has is already in the wind, see the recent Rice Dropbox/Rutgers incidents . . .
Posted by: anonymous | May 7 2014 0:57 utc | 179
Hoping the Russian Federation: keeps powder dry until Oct; utilises contract law Jul/Aug/Sep to gradually divert gas supplies away from Yats n Co's grasp, maybe even resiling altogether (circa late Oct) from any contract to supply to NATO countries and then pivot supply east to China; stop NATO supply/evac route via RF territory; secure Manas airport in RF friendly hands; beef up missile defence capabilities in Crimea, Rostov, Kaliningrad, and make available state of art systems to Syria and Zimbabwe...
Posted by: Cortes | May 7 2014 1:07 utc | 180
Ahhh, the despicable apartheid genocidal pariah state of Israel ONCE again to the rescue!!!!
Hmmm, wasn't Israel in the news just today about something?
Oh, that's right, it's spies on its greatest ally more than any other country on the planet even while the US is busy giving Israeli scum nuclear spies Oscar awards.
Yeah, I'm SURE they're REAL independent, huh? Like so independent that they would jeopardize having a direct tap into raw US intel data?
Yup, what a great fucking friend the apartheid genocidal state of Israel is to the people of the United States who don't get to partake in the fruits of Israeli sex trafficking like the American PTB, huh?
So, besides the fact that Mossad's fingerprints are all over the false flag event of 9/11 what other "events" has the apartheid genocidal state of Israel "helped" the US/world investigate?
Boston Bombing? You bet!!!
Nairobi Mall Massacre? Of course!!
Advising the good people of Sandy Hook? Natch.
Yup, whenever something happens that's totally fucked up, why, the apartheid genocidal state of Israel in all of its fascist glory is there to "help investigate" and "advise" everyone.
What a great idea!!!
What's that? Oh, you want me to repost the link to the article that documents the Zionist collaboration with the Third Reich before and during WWII so that the current Israel aiding and abetting of today's neo-Nazi anti-semites doesn't seem so surprising.
Ok, here ya go, Zionism in the Age of Dictators
And remember, kids, like Noam said about Syria, the apartheid genocidal state of Israel is probably also sitting this Ukraine shit out, too.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 7 2014 1:23 utc | 181
@ToivoS #176:
Good points. Yes, of course the Israelis that come might have local connections. Also, one can expect Israelis to be more objective than Poles, English, or even Swedes, whose government now seems to be one of the worst EU governments when it comes to Russophobism.
I just wonder how Israelis helping with the investigation was justified, given that there appear to be no USians or Canadians, for example. But then, in many respects, Israel often gets lumped together with Europe for diplomatic purposes.
note:
Here's the link to the apartheid genocidal state of Israel "helping" the US investigate the OBVIOUS false flag at Boston.
Yup, Israel's shown the world time and time again what a trustworthy, honest and altruistic nation it is.
Oh wait. That's NEVER been fucking true EVER and any who thinks the world can/should trust the Israelis concerning anything - much less a sensitive criminal investigation with massive implications - only further confirms my belief that the common person is sooo fucking brainwashed/retarded that altering mankind's self-destructive course is well nigh impossible.
Really, we should trust the Israelis. Holy holy fuck.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 7 2014 1:40 utc | 183
And here's the link I effed up to Israel and 9/11.
Sorry for the bad links. I think I may have pissed my pants - I'm not quite sure yet - when someone said that it probably was a good idea to include the Israelis in the Odessa stuff. I'm going to call in a specialist from Tel Aviv to confirm. Will keep you all posted.
Posted by: JSorrentine | May 7 2014 1:58 utc | 184
Yo, JS try to calm down a bit. Israel does have its own national interests that are not dependent on US imperialism (oh, if only the reverse were recognized in the US, but that is another problem) and with respect to Ukraine their interests align with those of us who wish to see Russia become a world force independent of US imperialism. New alliances are being formed right now and the BRICs are a big factor. Israel, in spite of its efforts to oppress the Palestinians, recognize this new reality. The Israelis recognize a change in international relations that seem to have been lost on those who guide US foreign policy.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 7 2014 2:07 utc | 185
I'm sure the Israelis will opportunistically abandon the United States on which they have been parasitic for so long, just as Zionists had no problem turning on the British colonialists who helped them get a foothold in Palestine; but I have absolutely zero trust in Israeli investigators in a situation of this sort. Clearly there is considerable involvement of Zionist neoconservatives in the Ukraine coup, and they still want to punish Putin for interfering with all out war on Iran and Syria. Whether Israeli leadership is now seriously at odds with western Zionist neocons, I have my doubts, although I guess it's possible in principle they could diverge on significant issues. But if there are going to be international investigators, they should be from non-aligned states. Israeli investigators of politically charged atrocities like these--what a sick joke.
Posted by: RudyM | May 7 2014 2:24 utc | 186
The Israelis recognize a change in international relations that seem to have been lost on those who guide US foreign policy.
Posted by: ToivoS | May 6, 2014 10:07:38 PM | 183
'scuse me! It is the ISRAELIS who guide US foreign policy. Your comment makes no sense - OTOH, realizing that the US is in decline, they are probably looking toward a new "host" -
Posted by: crone | May 7 2014 2:28 utc | 187
@JSorrentine:
I guess you're the one to go to for links about nefarious activities of Israel in other countries. One thing I've wondered about is whether Israel assisted Chechen terrorists the way that the CIA did. I do not recall ever reading about Israel aiding this anti-Russian terrorism. Do you have anything?
@ No, Its Stalin's daughter. Putin Raised her from the dead with his "KBG black arts" .I actually read this in the New York Times, so it must be true, right ? the ,um paper of, uh, record..or something.
Posted by: Marc | May 7 2014 3:04 utc | 189
Posted by: brian | May 6, 2014 7:06:51 PM | 167
I don't have any evidence, it's a guess. It's also a guess that playing nice in a country targeted by US capital will leave you on the sidelines or dead.
Just occurs to me that the lady in the photograph is taking the wrong approach. She should dance topless in a cathedral and get invited on all the talk shows.
Posted by: dh | May 7 2014 3:38 utc | 191
@fairleft #188:
This has been mentioned here before, but it's worth bringing up again in case you missed it. It seems to be the standard Web reference on this subject.
But they basically had to … one of the things that Putin had to do to gain trust of the disloyal oligarchs or the agents who turned, was that he had to be involved in some of these little scams and there was a transaction of precious metals and what not, a hundred million euros here and there, unaccounted for, and Putin had to be involved in these, in these mafia like crimes, to gain the trust of these mafia like oligarchs. Many of them were American and Israeli citizens and agents as well.He had to play the role of double agent, but once you’re in a double agent role, I won’t digress here, but once you’re in a double agent role actually it becomes a little bit easier because things that make you look like a triple agent you can justify, you can excuse under the role of being a double agent because you’re going back and forth. So things that make you look like you’re actually … you’re already known as someone who works on both sides so you can always explain things has having to keep up appearances.
This is nothing but speculation, but it's interesting. How could a man so highly principled as Putin apparently is become president of a country that was as rotten as Russia was under Yeltsin?
(Chris Floyd would probably have an apoplectic fit if he read that.)
@JSorrentine:
I guess you're the one to go to for links about nefarious activities of Israel in other countries. One thing I've wondered about is whether Israel assisted Chechen terrorists the way that the CIA did. I do not recall ever reading about Israel aiding this anti-Russian terrorism. Do you have anything?
Posted by: Demian | May 6, 2014 10:31:50 PM | 186
not JSorrentine, but here's article you might find interesting...
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/19/chechen-terrorists-and-the-neocons/
Posted by: crone | May 7 2014 4:04 utc | 193
Posted by: Demian | May 6, 2014 7:52:31 PM | 173
I think Israeli investigators are being brought in with the EU because Kiev (and everyone behind them) knows that they have a have a serious public relations problem (they really look like Fascists now) that they really are not capable of spinning on their own.
Putin's early concern and outrage about the hand of Neo-Nazis in Maidan is appearing to the world to ring true now.
.
Posted by: Tea | May 7 2014 4:18 utc | 194
@crone #191:
Thanks, but that article doesn't say anything about the involvement of Israel as opposed to American neocons. We all know that the neocons hate Russia and want to destroy it. The question being considered in some recent posts is whether Israel is pursuing a similarly Russophobic policy as is USG. Israel is at least pretending not to be, given its not showing up for the anti-Russia vote at the UNGA concerning the Crimea.
This is why I wanted to know whether Israeli intelligence aided the Chechen terrorists as the CIA did. Someone here has mentioned that Russian Jewish oligarchs which Putin later neutralized aided the anti-Russian terrorists. I don't dispute that, but again, Jewish oligarchs are not the same thing as Israel. Israel is a state after all, so it has reasons of state, and those may influence it to not be hostile to Russia in the way that USG and its European puppets are.
Posted by: Demian | May 6, 2014 11:41:10 PM | 190
This is nothing but speculation, but it's interesting. How could a man so highly principled as Putin apparently is become president of a country that was as rotten as Russia was under Yeltsin?
Putin has been a civil servant all his life and he was trained to be a civil servant. A business man is a complete different mind set.
The "nomenclatura" of the Soviet Union never lost power, nomenclatura means all leading posts - business and politics - were decided by the leadership of the communist party. It was an elite network and there were differet types of people in it. Jelzin had worked in construction - which is corrupt in any country. Putin in the secret service - you have to be a completely different animal for that.
The Russian deep state is professional and the experience of Western market economy was new for them. The realized they needed someone different from Jelzin if they wanted to keep their power against foreign interference. Putin was chosen by them, he did not look for the job himself.
You can see that being a politician is something that does not come natural to Putin. He has huge problems with his body language and is unnecessarily confrontational. I don't think he likes being the Russian ideologue in chief, but seems to have been convinced it is necessary for Russia inc. You can find old statements from him where he refuses to do it saying it infringes on personal freedom to chose own beliefs.
Presumably it is best to ask a laid back business paper on what Putinism means - from December 2012.
Judging from his speech, this may be a mishmash of patriotism, the cult of the mother, sport, the church, and the revitalisation of a “provincial intelligentsia”. This experimentation with ideology fits Mr Putin’s identity as a “case officer” says Clifford Gaddy of the Brookings Institution, a think-tank; a man who “finds out what people want” and “cleverly tries to manipulate them”.The biggest problem for Mr Putin and for his efforts to forge a new national consensus is the colossal lack of trust between people and the state. For example, this is what holds back domestic investment and helps explain Russia’s estimated $75 billion in capital flight this year. The numbers speak for themselves: polls by the Levada Centre show the number of those who trust the president falling from 44% to 34% between March and November alone.
Restoring trust may be even harder than articulating a new national idea. Over the past years, says Boris Makarenko of the Centre for Political Technologies, a sizeable number of Russians have come to consider themselves as citizens, not merely subjects. This part of society “wants to make inputs”. Trust in power, Mr Makarenko says, will only come when they are given the unencumbered means to create those inputs, beginning with credible and legitimate elections. Will this fit with Mr Putin’s new ideology?
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 5:00 utc | 196
Oh this is nice. We now have our little far-right sockpuppet bouncing around calling the Banderites "Nazi-Loons" and declaring that the West seeks to "stain Russia's image".
I guess that's some sort of progress considering this is the guy who has done his level best to put forward the Svoboda version of history [2] in every thread he can, declaring that anti-fascists are just "intolerant" poseurs trying to "be Rebel" [1] (who thinks he should go tell that the the anti-fascists fighting those Bandera-Nazi-Loons today... let's vote).
Funny, you seem to see now how the west is trying to smear Russia with lies about what monsters they are. I guess you figure that the United States just came up with this whole "smear other countries" idea. Because when it comes to the many bad things said about the Soviet Union, you take that as bible truth (and even add your own flourishes - such as adding 4 million to the famine death toll and declaring it a planned genocide).
Hell, you've even come around to a positively Chomskyite view of the Syria situation: that NAZO's main interest in Syria is not to overthrow Assad but to cause death and destruction.
I mean, fellow MoAers, I'm almost ready to say that the long re-education is quite complete. Though I am still deeply troubled by this little gem:
"Thats not the subject - the subject is what people in Poland, Czech, Ukraine, Belorus, Lithuania, Latvia etc etc, thought was worse, communism or nazism..The Nazis only stayed 4 years in those places - the Soviets stayed nearly 50 yrs."
He really declares that all of Eastern Europe would have much preferred being slaughtered by Einsatzgruppen, worked to death in slave labor camps, and be ruled as slaves by nazi subfurhers to.... having to put up with shoddy consumer goods through the end of the 1980s. And that he followed it up by saying "the Nazis only stayed 4 years and the Soviets 50" as if the Nazis weren't driven out by the Red Army and partisans of all shades (Poles, Czechs, Ukrainian, Belorussians, Lithuanians, and Latvians), you know, just got a real sense of their humanity and decided to take up knitting. Let that statement sink in - "The Nazis only stayed 4 years in those places - the Soviets stayed nearly 50 yrs."
Yeah. Yeah - that's the kind of stupid that there is no being redeemed from. But still, I'll take this is as a banner day. I think we've won. Wasn't it Ghandi who said: "First they hmm..., then they sheesh, stfu, foff, and lol, and then you win"? Absolutely prophetic.
But seriously though. This guy is a real dangerous jerk. Anyone who falls for his "pseudo left" nonsense is flirting with the devil. JSorrentine - I accept his "pseduo-left" rants because I think he has a good, if not a bit irrational, heart. But when the kind of scumbag who can say "The Nazis only stayed 4 years in those places - the Soviets stayed nearly 50 yrs" starts trying to win points talking about "the pseudo left".. well, you really ought to question it.
[1] "Oh quick, over here: the NAZI's - they're like ":The WORST people ever" and given all that's happened in the world these last 10 years it's totally REBEL to diss the NAZI's, and my hero referenced them in an irrelevant rebel-pose sometime somewhere ergo he's got balls o'steel and worth ten times any o' you godammed non-Fanboi ingrates!"[2] On the Ukraine Famine: "it is clear that they knew the effect of their proposed actions before they took those actions - that makes it a genocide"
Posted by: guest77 | May 7 2014 5:47 utc | 197
You can't make this stuff up.
Posted by: Demian | May 6, 2014 7:52:31 PM | 173
the Guardian and does..its readers know its making shit up...but does so anyway..as if it had a death compulsion.This sort fo strange behavior can be seen in politicians and media, as if they didnt care they there were exposing themselves to the world as liars and frauds
Posted by: brian | May 7 2014 5:49 utc | 198
Nationalists inside the Odessa Trade Union Building - featuring a very professional video camera no fire, some people can be recognized on camera.
Nationalists inside the Odessa Trade Union Building - now there is fire
This was triple or more false flag. And quite a few of the people taking part did not know what they were used for.
Posted by: somebody | May 7 2014 5:50 utc | 199
JSorrentine @ 153: Loved the rant, and, I have to say, that past history of the US, and their war crimes against humanity, justify your passion. All in the name of ever increasing wealth for a few.
Posted by: ben | May 7 2014 6:53 utc | 200
The comments to this entry are closed.
I hear that British troops (mercenaries?) are also on the ground
as well as everybody else.
Wonder if a few Chinese might soon be making their presence.
(After all it's soon Eurovision Song contest time,
and thats open to any crappy songs)
Posted by: chris m | May 6 2014 11:37 utc | 101