Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 14, 2014

Open Thread 2014-12

News &n views (not Ukraine) ...

Posted by b on May 14, 2014 at 18:04 UTC | Permalink


Obama just said again that Assad must not be part of Syrian future.

Who the hell gave the US the right to dictate who should govern other countries?

Incredible arrogance and hypocrisy.

Posted by: Andoheb | May 14 2014 18:21 utc | 1

Everyone put in for vacation, get your effing barf bags ready and make sure you have $25 because...

The Official September 11th Museum is about to open!!!!!

The museum also looks at the lead-up to Sept. 11 and its legacy — and that has sparked some of the controversy it has faced.

Members of the museum's interfaith clergy advisory panel raised concerns that it plans to show a documentary film, about al-Qaida, that they said unfairly links Islam and terrorism. The museum has said the documentary is objective; Bloomberg said it took care "to make sure that nobody thinks a billion people who practice one religion were responsible."

[Hey, Mayor Mike, what about those pesky Israeli Mossad agents that were swarming the country before, during and after 9/11? What about them?]

While some Sept. 11 victims' relatives have embraced the museum, others have denounced its $24 general-public ticket price as unseemly and its underground location as disrespectful, particularly because unidentified remains are being stored in a private repository there. Other victims' families see it as a fitting resting place.

This is yet ANOTHER example of how evil - but particularly US war criminality - never ever rests but especially when it's imperative that a fabricated "reality" must be made to stick.

F*cking murderous scum.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 14 2014 19:07 utc | 2

@2 It's all about golf.

Posted by: dh | May 14 2014 19:47 utc | 3

The Boston bombing story psyop continues on its retarded wobble destroying every last bit of common sense and reality in its path.

So, the gun that one of the Tsarnev brothers SUPPOSEDLY used to SUPPOSEDLY kill the MIT police officer and which was SUPPOSEDLY thrown at the police when Tsarnev was SUPPOSEDLY in a shootout with police has been forensically tested and traced to a low-level drug offender in Maine who Tsarnev was OBVIOUSLY working with:

Note: remember that the uncle of the Tsarnevs was son-in-law to this CIA head-honcho but don't worry about that b/c the two paragraphs from the same story below are totally damning:

"Authorities believe Tsarnaev's ties to the illicit drug trade in Maine helped finance his six-month trip to the southern Russian republics of Chechnya and Dagestan in early 2012, where he became radicalized. Drug money, they say, also may have helped him buy components of the bomb that killed three people and injured more than 260 on April 15, 2013.

Oh, so Tamerlan was involved in the illicit drug trade and used the extra money to go and get radicalized and buy the pressure - guffaw - cooker to make the bomb that injured all those people, right? Pressure cookers are effing EXPENSIVE, DAWG, especially when you have to buy/fill them with the imaginary fairy dust shrapnel that they are supposed to contain!! But wait... (from the same article)

While Tamerlan Tsarnaev has not been tied to the drug trade, police believe he was involved in the killing of three people in Waltham where $5,000 and marijuana were found at the scene.

Get it, folks? He was involved IN the drug trade but he's NOT tied to it, got it?

Similarly - but in the converse - it's just like how Tsarnev's uncle was IN the CIA until 1988 but then was NOT tied to it later on throughout his illustrious career at the Rand Corporation, Hallliburton or USAID, got it?

Say, why not make a weekend of it, kids?

9/11 museum, Boston Bombing site AND then catch GG whoring it up at Harvard on his book tour!

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 14 2014 19:58 utc | 4

"Bloomberg said it took care "to make sure that nobody thinks a billion people who practice one religion were responsible.""
And did they make sure that they didn't explain the motive for the attack?
Watch What motivated the 9/11 hijackers? See testimony most didn't

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 14 2014 20:11 utc | 5

JSorrentine, all the stupid games of claiming it was a "fabricated reality" only serves to misdirect people away from the motive:
The Real 9/11 Conspiracy: Traitorous 9/11 Commissioners Served Israel Agenda

Ignorant claims that "spying on" is the same as "aiding and abetting" only serves to misdirect people away from the motive.

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 14 2014 20:15 utc | 6

There are definitely some choreographed moves underway to coincide with Brahimi's resignation: 1) UN Security Council vote on referring Syria (minus Golan) to the International Criminal Court, and 2) France's claim (backed up by the usual suspect, Human Rights Watch) that Syria is dropping chlorine gas on people. This was punctuated in today's NYT with a completely putrid piece of journalism comparing Obama's "inaction" in Syria to Clinton's handling of the Rwanda massacre of 1994.

The U.S. cannot get over its defeat last summer.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 14 2014 20:15 utc | 7

@1 - welcome to the warped reality of today..

@7 - mike maloney quote "1)UN Security Council vote on referring Syria (minus Golan) to the International Criminal Court"

can they do that with israel too?

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 20:45 utc | 8

speaking of the un....."The UN has voiced concerns over the apparent use of UN-marked helicopters by Kiev troops in their military operation against Donetsk regional militia."

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 20:55 utc | 9

"I like to think of it as a fireworks show: You want to save your best for last. There’s a story that from the beginning I thought would be our biggest, and I’m saving that. The last one is the one where the sky is all covered in spectacular multicolored hues. This will be the finale, a big missing piece. Snowden knows about it and is excited about it."

Glenn Greenwald in the GQ interview, promoting himself and his book, cashing in on the Snowden documents, while Manning rots in prison...

Posted by: anonymous | May 14 2014 21:28 utc | 10

Smart move by Russia, China.

Several weeks ago we reported that in response to ongoing alienation of Russia by the west Putin was aggressively setting the stage for Russia's eastward expansion, set to culminate with a "holy grail" gas deal with China. We said that "while Europe is furiously scrambling to find alternative sources of energy should Gazprom pull the plug on natgas exports to Germany and Europe (the imminent surge in Ukraine gas prices by 40% is probably the best indication of what the outcome would be), Russia is preparing the announcement of the "Holy Grail" energy deal with none other than China, a move which would send geopolitical shockwaves around the world and bind the two nations in a commodity-backed axis."

Posted by: ruralito | May 14 2014 21:33 utc | 11

Andoheb@1 "Obama just said again that Assad must not be part of Syrian future". According to some polls and anecdotal evidence from UN Agencies in Syria Assad has some 70% support. Obamas ratings in the US are below 50%, Congress as a whole can barely top 10%. As you say incredible arrogance and hypocrisy.

Posted by: harry law | May 14 2014 21:34 utc | 12

@Tom Murphy, of course the implosion of WTC 7, the presence of molten steel in the tower debris, thermite residue etc throws the whole 9/11 investigation into a cocked hat. But it also destroys al-Qaeda's
"punishment of the US" theory, since it points to a black-op by Israeli agents, as loopy as that sounds.

Posted by: ruralito | May 14 2014 21:49 utc | 13

...well, maybe not Israeli, but it's a reasonable guess.

Posted by: ruralito | May 14 2014 22:05 utc | 14

@13 what you are saying isn't true. See the videos in this playlist:
A reason those looy conspiracy theories have such traction is because this misdirect away from the main motive for the attack.

"... the Mujahideen saw the black gang of thugs in the White House hiding the Truth, and their stupid and foolish leader, who is elected and supported by his people, denying reality and proclaiming that we (the Mujahideen) were striking them because we were jealous of them (the Americans), whereas the reality is that we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries." -Osama Bin Laden , February 14 , 2003

WHO is writing that if what you think about 9/11 is true?

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 14 2014 22:14 utc | 15

Clinton is just another voice in the chorus. The idea is to add to the barrage of anti-Putin rhetoric. Putin is supposed to see the error of his ways and hand Crimea over to NATO.

Posted by: dh | May 14 2014 22:50 utc | 16

Some people believe that once you're on a payroll you can't get off the payroll. If that were true Hamas, once funded to thwart the PLO,
would still be owned by Israel.

I do believe though, Greenwald should devote considerable funds to Manning's defense and sundry other anti-imperial causes.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 14 2014 23:14 utc | 17

@ 15,

Sorry Tom, but the combination of the free fall collapse of WTC 7, the NORAD drill simulating multiple hijackings at the exact same moment of multiple hijackings, the outrageous options trading that the 9/11 commission report, the near total lack of security cam video in the Pentagon (one of the most places on earth) ETC, ETC, seems at the very least to suggest that the official narrative is missing something.

But let us say that the official fairytale is actually close to the truth. What would make you want to defend the government position? Is it because the poor devils have so little means of getting their story out through the MSM, and so you are stepping up to the plate to help out? The number of people catching on to the 9/11 truth movement is huge that's wonderful. And even if you don't believe it yourself, why not force the establishment to use their own resources to convince the public rather than helping them by freeing up their energies to demonize the next 3rd world country they want to bomb?

Posted by: Lysander | May 14 2014 23:24 utc | 18

@15, whatever,

item: WTC7 was barely damaged, yet it was dropped into its own footprint. Check out the video from the other side of WTC7. No flames, then whoosh! it falls straight down, all sides at an equal rate. Line up your cursor with one of the sides: straight down.

item: burning kerosene does not melt steel

item: al-Qaeda doesn't give a damn about Israel, or they wouldn't have attacked Syria. They're Islamic gangsters, words mean nothing to them.

"A reason those looy conspiracy theories have such traction" is that the official story has big holes in it. FTFY

Posted by: ruralito | May 14 2014 23:34 utc | 19

From GG's piece on Monday:

"All of the evidence highlights the implicit bargain that is offered to citizens: pose no challenge and you have nothing to worry about. Mind your own business, and support or at least tolerate what we do, and you'll be fine. Put differently, you must refrain from provoking the authority that wields surveillance powers if you wish to be deemed free of wrongdoing.

This is a deal that invites passivity, obedience and conformity. The safest course, the way to ensure being "left alone", is to remain quiet, unthreatening and compliant.

As you may know - and may disagree with (I'm just riffing in the open thread without the time required for intense debate) - I think that the Snowden flap is the obvious "2 punch" online-related psyop follow-up to the "1 punch" Occupy movement psyop operation. Both operations were aimed directly at the heart of dissent/activism in the Western world but especially the US. The Occupy movement through coordinated - and sometimes IMO staged - acts of state violence against peaceful protestors sought to psychologically deter protestors/activists from physically taking to the streets, organize etc etc. The harsh beatings, the harsh sentences handing down to protestors, the declassified "kill lists" of Occupy members, etc etc I believe were all part and parcel of an extremely well thought-out plan to bring to heel any nascent movements running contrary to TPTB.

Certainly the US is a fascist country - terrible terrible things happen here all the time - but even here the displays of said Occupy violence/punishment seemed meant to elicit an emotional response from viewers especially among targeted audiences.

The Snowden operation - as I said - I believe is the necessary 2nd part of this operation for now not only is it not safe to peacefully organize/demonstrate it is also now not safe to even electronically communicate about organizing/demonstrating or to criticize TPTB too harshly - e.g., safe red versus blue arguments are always welcome.

Clever, huh? In the wake of the "Arab Spring" psyops in Egypt, Syria, Libya etc and the continuance of the "Color Revolution" scheme in Ukraine, I think that TPTB knew that while the use of the fake "uprisings" were necessary cover to get their evil intel machinations underway in those targeted countries there could be some potential domestic offshoots as the American/Western "yute" might see what was going on in said "Arab Spring" etc countries and start their own little disturbances here.

What to do? Make it very unattractive to follow in the footsteps of those involved in the US intel-backed "revolutions" abroad.

I previously posted stories about 9/11 and the Boston Bombing. Both of these events to have been successfully carried off - which they were - needed willing participants - not too many but just enough to lead the unwittingly duped along as in the Arab Spring, Color Revolutions, etc - among military leaders, local law enforcement professionals, media whores and volunteers posing as "bystanding civilians". In each case there are scores of people who are proven out and out liars, people who will stick to stories in the face of incontrovertible evidence and people who will willfully/mindlessly repeat the lies of others knowing full-well their falsity. IOW, in the US there's no dearth of those willing to participate in such nefarious and criminal activities that distort people's perception of reality. It's the American way and it is on evidence every minute of every day here.

This brings me to GG's quote and how clever I believe this Snowden psyop is.

As I and others have previously iterated, during this entire psyop Snowden/GG and others have protected the war criminals and their crimes from scrutiny. The purposefully narrowed parameters of the "debate" of which Snowden/GG are leading the charge is one of privacy rights and NOT the murderous war criminality of our overlords and how to put a stop to it. Thus, when GG speaks to the social "deal" that invites "passivity/obedience" implicitly he is speaking to - specifically targeting, even - a post-Occupy psyop activist/conscientious/dissenting audience where not conforming no longer means physically resuscitating movements of the past - what and get 7 years in prison or shot or maced or beaten etc etc - but instead means still feeling as if you have the "freedom" - har har - to post what you like on your stupid glimmerpad and related social media platforms.

After the still trumpeted beatings/imprisonments of Occupy, Snowden and GG are inviting you to fight for your right to be an online activist/dissenter - that is, if you DON'T believe that the big bad NSA is creating a dossier on you. See how clever it all is? Some numbers of conscientious people/activists will now stay off line and needlessly(?) cripple their organization attempts while others - thanks to the awareness/transparency cultivated - again har har - by Snowden and GG - will stay online and fight but within the more "moderate" parameters of a group being surveilled for suspicious activity.

Maybe the NSA lacks the ability to filter through so much data? Or maybe it doesn't. Feeling lucky, activist boy?

Why, you could even throw in the high-profile "persecution" of a couple hacktivists - ie., Assange, Manning, Snowden, Swartz - to make it seem as if their efforts were really "damaging" to the plans of TPTB, y'know, sex it up for would-be Anonymous crowd, right? Make them feel like rebels!!

Anyways too long a post but one of the disturbing undercurrents I see in what Snowden/GG are saying is the cultivation of a TINA-esque perspective: there is no longer any alternative to having your entire life/society be online and that the only way forward is by fighting for the survival of said online life. Online privacy trumps thinking about any number of the MYRIADS of non-technology related issues that plague our civilization. I always like to start with the war crimes our leaders are guilty of but it's a matter of personal choice.

My thought: it was only 20 years ago that many US universities still weren't fully wired, the majority of people didn't carry cell phones/devices, laptops really didn't exist in large numbers, etc etc. IOW, less than one generation ago none of this techno-shit really mattered to the common person and yet now we are full-on being led into a reality in which we are being told our most sincere efforts should go towards preserving a mode of existence that most of us didn't engage in 20+ years ago. WTF?

For example, are these psyops designed to lead pissed-off/aware people away from - for example only , kids ;) - understanding that life/death/poverty/sickness are serious human issues above the cutsey-ness of the digital age and that throwing a brick through the window of a nefarious corporate office down the street instead of trying a DDOS attack on their web server may actually be 1) less dangerous/prosecutable for the thrower 2) more effective/make more people think and 3) more emotionally satisfying?

Now I'm not saying that people should start to organize movements using principles contained within successful and long-lasting organizations such as those seen in organized crime - am I? - but what I am saying is that instead of following the parameters of the fake debate as prescribed by Snowden/GG maybe we should instead be talking about the possibility of leaving our seemingly completely compromised and "safe" online lives behind?

And whatever you do, kids, please don't post long comments on Open Threads.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 14 2014 23:41 utc | 20

Should be:

what I am saying is that instead of following the parameters of the fake debate as prescribed by Snowden/GG maybe we should instead be talking about the possibility of leaving our seemingly completely compromised and "safe" online lives behind! Fuck yeah!

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 14 2014 23:51 utc | 21

"demonize gg" the rerun you've seen (here) numerous times.. it sure gets boring when that's all one can offer.. was gg responsible for 9-11 yet? how long do we have to wait til we hear that too, lol..

Posted by: james | May 14 2014 23:51 utc | 22

My congratulations to Germany. You are leading the way.
Germany Sets New Record, Generating 74 Percent Of Energy Needs From Renewable Energy

Posted by: juannie | May 15 2014 0:30 utc | 23

AQ hates Shiiism as much or more than it hates Zionism.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 15 2014 0:52 utc | 24

Greenwald has never advocated war crimes prosecution for WMD lies? I'd have to research that inference's veracity.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 15 2014 0:55 utc | 25

James, you don't seem yet to have learned not to use pseudo reductio ad absurdum straw man arguments. Your would-be comic suggestion has no relation to anything being said. and your lolling at your own humour is sheer mental masturbation.

Tom Murphy, how dare you call the work of all actually existing 9/11 analysts 'stupid' and 'ignorant', in two successive comments, citing two successive sets of propaganda videos by something which in the universally mendacious Usaian style calls itself 'representative press' and is doubtless just one more ideologically crazed talking head with a beginner's video tool? Who do you think you are?

Ruralito, the presence of thermite/thermate/nano etc in the debris does not point to a cock-up; there is no way such presence could possibly have been avoided given the basic nature of the operation. It's just an inherent feature of the plan. And in the event, what does it matter? There are always fools enough around to talk nonsense and the Usaian public is past the capacity for thought and long lost the courage to attempt it.

Amnspi whatever, hamas is as useful to the zionist entity as it ever was, and though some muslims may regard it as a symbol of heroic resistance, I regard it as a symbol of incurable stupidity. Even if it were not objectively a hindrance to any real resistance, either in gaza or elsewhere, Meshaal's public political prostitution throughout the region in search of money, much of which he keeps for himself, inspires nothing but contempt, and has done for several years. This contempt is deserved. Religious politics in general is a invariable road to extreme stupidity.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 1:08 utc | 26

Think Doktor Snowden will make the grade ... ?

German university votes to give Snowden doctorate

Members of the philosophy faculty of Germany’s Rostock University voted on Wednesday to grant Snowden the title in recognition of the “outstanding academic achievement” he made by exposing surveillance practices in the digital age.

The faculty’s scholars voted 20-1, with one abstention, but the decision can still be blocked on procedural grounds by the rector of the 600-year-old university.

Posted by: john francis lee | May 15 2014 1:10 utc | 27

@26 - rowan. fair enough.. i don't find the gg comments by jsore convincing or relevant, but more of a distraction which is actually pretty ironic, as that is what he is claiming they are all about!

Posted by: james | May 15 2014 1:31 utc | 28

Obama 'dropped in' the meeting between Jarba and Susan Rice.
Poor Jarda, he got no weapons but the usual tap in the back and some money to pay the hotel of the expat opposition while they roam in Turkey.
It seems that the Friends of Syria are in total disarray. They are now more concerned about protecting their countries from the returning "rebels" and opposing Al Qaeda take over of part of Syria, especially the area near Israel than to help replace Bashar al Assad by a bunch of losers.
Any rapprochement between Iran and Syria will be the end of Jarba and his pathetic bunch.
Lakdar Ibrahimi was a disaster. He is responsible for the continuation of the civil war and for the failure of the Geneva conference where he and Kerry sided on the opposition side from the first day.
Good riddance. Any other diplomat chosen for the job must show consistent impartiality and resist the West pressure to take side otherwise he will fail again.

Syria is entering in a new phase where the West will soon be obliged to ask the Syria Army and Hezbollah to fight Al Qaeda and prevent its expansion as the 'moderate' rebels are weak, divided and have being decimated by both the SAA and the Qaeda fighters.

Time for the West to officially declare that Bashar al Assad has won as he has resisted the overpowering attempts to overthrow him and that the West has no choice than to live with him for the next 5 years.

Posted by: Virgile | May 15 2014 1:40 utc | 29

J Sorrentine has an exuberant knockabout style. But it's pointless to defend Greenwald. His fan following is so huge and glittering that I am not joking at all when I say he would be the best candidate for Dem Pres after Hillary. As he says himself, a Gay Person would be the next logical thing after a Black Person and a Wimmin Person. And the most enduring lesson of the Obama presidency will be that it is perfectly realistic to act as if the public has no memory whatever. The public may have a memory or it may not, but officially it has no memory, because the mass media are 100% onboard. The flagship newspapers and networks of the Mighty Wurlitzer are the mass media. There is no other. So each successive Dem President can be just as apparently revolutionary (or at least, radical) in their exposure of the hypocrisies of the previous one, then once in office can do exactly the same things as before. And Greenwald says this of Hillary, that once in office she will do exactly the same things Obama did, which are the same things Bush 43 did. There is officially no memory of previous events.

Even the GOPsters are adopting this same strategy, which may give them some extension of their lifespan as a party (or it may lead to a serious split followed by fatal splintering, which is unlikely but possible): they are rapidly approaching the 'anointment' of Rand Paul, who is conducting a sort of Tea Party u-turn as he goes along. The best thing would have been to present him as an unregenerate Tea Party 'isolationist' and yet get him nominated regardless, in a spectacular pseudo revolt of the nominating convention - then, once he's in office, do the u-turn! But party managers are not quite omnipotent, and besides, Israel demanded the u-turn right now, if not before! There is humour in all this, and it's Jewish humour in the best and darkest sense. Did you ever read any of the other novels by Richard Condon, who invented and write the original Manchurian Candidate? They all have this blackly humorous contempt for the Usaian political circus, and they all make perfect movie material, but some are so extreme that Hollywood would be frightened by them. I remember one called The Whisper of the Axe, which is his take on the 1970s. It is absolutely surreal. It has Hillary and Obama prototypes as central characters, 30 or 40 years before they happened.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 1:53 utc | 30

"Ruralito, the presence of thermite/thermate/nano etc in the debris does not point to a cock-up; there is no way such presence could possibly have been avoided given the basic nature of the operation."

Huh? It was normal? It was always there? It wasn't there at the start but came into being...because of all the heat? Or, did you just leave out an important word that derailed your argument?

Posted by: ruralito | May 15 2014 1:59 utc | 31

Ruralito, I am no chemist, but it seems to me roughly as follows: your task is to prepare a material which can be shaped into wraparound cutting charges. Your teams (working from inside the liftshafts) have to wrap these things around each and every core column, every ten metres or so. each of the charges has to be fitted with a radio controlled electrical detonator. All these detonators will be fired in a ten second sequence from a computer control on the reinforced floor of building seven, the floor entirely taken over by the CIA long prior to the event and retrofitted with blastproof windows, as you doubtless recall. The charges have to take effect within a very carefully calculated and uniform period when detonated, therefore, otherwise the demolition sequence will be disrupted, as indeed occurred at one point, when the entire vast cube-like section of the south tower tilted over to an angle of 23 degrees from the vertical before disintegrating in mid air, one of the truly terrifying sights of the day. Since the columns taper as they go up, each charge has to be calculated to achieve cut-through at that point within the uniform time sequence of the whole operation; the maths for that alone must be exceedingly complex. Your only realistic way of doing all this is to use massive redundancy in the charges; that is, make all of the charges massively larger than is needed to achieve the cut. In that way, you can simplify the maths considerably. I have a photo of the north tower columns falling, and the charges can be seen still burning on the cut ends. It seems to me obvious that this is the only way to do it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 2:39 utc | 32

@30 - rowan, (even if that was or wasn't addressed to me).. i am not defending gg, or someone to quicly label in a derogatory manner as jsore does with his fanboy bs.. if gg was elected president of the usa i doubt if it would change much of anything, not that it is going to happen anytime soon. we live in the dark ages.. all the pointing of fingers at posters on moa - it can't get more silly then that - all the way up to pointing fingers are whistleblowers turned something else, even more opaque - whistleblowers who were never really being forthright about their nefarious backers - bringing this shit doesn't do much to change anything.. it is about as relevant as typing on a keypad to a message board thinking you are going to significantly change something. i think that is a foolish past-time which i and most others could easily be accused of.. if someone has some relevant news to share, fine.. if they want to make like they are moses with the holy grail - i reserve the right to laugh at them.. i think the question is not if, but how long before the usa implodes.. a related question might be how much shit has to happen before it implodes.. i suspect it could get much more messy then it is at present with the usa/financial system like a wild and wounded animal that you don't want to run across while they are looking for their next meal.

Posted by: james | May 15 2014 3:05 utc | 33

I don't think it's realistic to expect any of what we do to change anything, directly. What we can do, despite the incredibly obnoxious and terrifying nature of what we have to say, is get accustomed to saying it in as many ways as possible (if only to one another), so that, if I may put this way without sounding too pretentious, the discourse of freedom is maintained. It's like a little current, or many little currents, of fresh air in a stuffy sealed room.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 3:19 utc | 34

If you are wondering what is the last resort of currently losing global fascist oligarchy you should investigate the topic of "zombie apocalypse", in relation to modern biological warfare. A few weird cases of people eating other people alive are not coincidences, but like in many other cases, e.g. "Spanish" (born in US labs) flu, examples of testing such weapons in live environments. Check out "CONOP 8888" and see "World War Z". You may start to ponder why "some people" push the vision of Israel being attacked by "zombies" (Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, dissenters)... And then of course just defending itself...

Posted by: ProPeace | May 15 2014 4:40 utc | 35

Not exactly a problem here.

Burning kerosene does melt aluminum.

Posted by: John Smith | May 15 2014 4:41 utc | 36

we can see the bowing of the exterior load bearing columns and that bowing got progressively worse. The fires weakened the trusses which pulled in on the exterior columns to the point of failure:

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 15 2014 5:35 utc | 37

Tom, you are a no talent government stooge, but I bet you're getting paid to do this, which is more than can be said for the rest of us.


Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 8:10 utc | 38

@10, 20

Protests are being organized at Greenwald's book launches over his lack of support- and that of his employer Omidyar-for PayPal activists now facing 10-year jail sentences. Same page contains other links regarding Stratfor`s Duchin counter-measures targeting people like Greenwald. Maybe oooptation has proven to be the winning strategy.

Posted by: bassalt | May 15 2014 9:05 utc | 39

sorry, 'cooptation' and not 'oooptation' !

Posted by: bassalt | May 15 2014 9:07 utc | 40


that is no way to treat a tom,we all know that 9/11 was not some scary conspiracy with dancing israelis but a good ole full on smack in the face of uncle sam
How else can you explain american retaliation,in iraq,in iran,in libya,in syria and the middle east arab spring project of
terminate and consolidate
pull the tigers tail and it will bite you

Posted by: terence | May 15 2014 9:52 utc | 41

this is where i find sorrentine at his worst. to accuse people who are sitting in prison - or even dead - of needing the governments reaction to "feel rebel" denigrates them and their efforts. these were people doing what they thought was right and they paid for. same for the people at Occupy - for whatever the result. i would not suggest that these events and people are not open to manipulation, but to suggest that they and all of our reactions are all products of some plan worked out in a DC office park over a bag of donuts is really... wrong.

and sorry if i am psychoanalyzing, but i don't know how else to analyze such stuff. it seems to me to bear no relation at all to reality, and only to a very insecure ego that - somehow - feels more pure and righteous even than those languishing in prison for committing brave acts.

Posted by: guest77 | May 15 2014 12:21 utc | 42

should be "paid for it". sorry, am on my phone.

Posted by: guest77 | May 15 2014 12:22 utc | 43

Hacking paypal was a pointless criminal exercise. Hacking things just to punish them is not a valid revolutionary, radical or whatever methodology. Their protests against Greenwald are irrelevant, and from most points of view will help him.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 12:29 utc | 44

I am unable to connect to Iranian TV (in USA). Anyone else experiencing this?

Posted by: erichwwk | May 15 2014 13:13 utc | 45


It's not that I completely believe - there's just not enough evidence - all of the shit I speak to it's that I know I do not know everything. Thus, in broaching topics that are outside the mainstream "conversation" I hope that other people will add something I/we haven't thought about before. Look, the US PTB are war criminal monsters guilty of some of the most horrendous and despicable crimes humanity has seen in recent memory. That statement is not disputable. It's just a fact. Thus, in truly digesting/understanding the inhumanity of these scum in my mind there are really no limitations - that I can think of - as to their horrible capabilities especially as they have unlimited funds and seem to act with total/complete impunity cf. Odessa, Ghouta, etc etc etc ad infinitum

Yes, it is near sacrilegious to say/propose some things/topics but then again we have been told to swallow some of the most nonsensical horseshit ever promulgated by a ruling class in history. How do we really know what is real in a specific narrative given TPTB abysmal and ridiculous track record? I believe it is our duty to ask questions especially when a narrative SCREAMS to be put into place without any questioning/dissent. cf. 9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston Bombing, etc.

Knowing the US war criminal's trivial valuation of human life, is it really so far out there to think that they wouldn't set up some poor suckers/innocents - Manning, Swartz, Assange, etc - and then take away their lives forever - in actuality or imprisonment - especially when they do it DAY IN DAY OUT in the most cruel and inhuman fashions around the planet? Especially when they need those lives to advance a cause/operation/narrative - as is the case, IMO, with Snowden (although I think he's a witting dupe) and as was the case with those people who died on 9/11. The passengers on the planes is another story. ;)

Moreover, if they are willing to snuff out people's lives in a heartbeat then think of the non-lethal possibilities that exist for subterfuge and "human asset" utilization. Hey kid, we've caught you hacking/selling drugs etc etc. We can either throw the fucking book at you and you'll rot for every in prison - don't drop the soap, nudge, wink - or you do WHATEVER we ask and you'll serve 4 years in Club Fed once your "mission" is complete?

Seriously, there are so many potential variations on this theme - e.g. snitches, informers, etc etc - that situations that evil minds could throw people into are literally endless. Again, evil minds with zero evidence of conscience/morality/humanity.

Lastly, at LEAST 90 percent of the shit spoken about on this site - and I'm talking b's regular topical posts - you know is viewed by AT LEAST 90 of the US peon population as the most hair-brained conspiratorial horseshit they've ever heard. What, Assad didn't gas those kids?!! The US is involved in Ukraine?!! and on and on and on...

Thus, the value of this site is that the participants here are of such an inquisitive/skeptical/experienced mien that MOA is often the place where many others go to get a "truer" take on things. Certainly the conversation can get seemingly far afield and difficult but I think it is with the best of intentions, meaning in the pursuit of truth and not as a deliberate attempt to further obfuscate. I would be flattered if I thought me posting as one person on one site is actually "distracting" - thanks, james! - people from the incessant waterfall of shit that pours into the minds of mankind but I don't think that's the case. There's something underneath that shit waterfall and many here see bits and pieces of it and tossing out topics that may seem ridiculous/disgusting/outrageous at first is an attempt to navigate that shit.

Later, I've gotta go to the bathroom...

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 15 2014 14:29 utc | 46

@46 - jsore - thanks for that last part.. i agree with you and many of your observations.. i don't like the parts where you attack others here on the site. i think you can say your piece without having to resort to that. that's mostly it, otherwise - continue.

Posted by: james | May 15 2014 16:00 utc | 47

Anyone notice that Amiri Barakas son won the mayoralty of Newark NJ,despite a full court press of hate ads by the Zionists?And where does this hatred arise?Because,as Poet Laurette of NJ,he published a poem stating among many things,that Israelis failed to show up at the WTC that morning,and voila,in a heartbeat,lost that position.Has anyone ever documented that claim as true or not,or is it unwelcome truth?And did they design the WTC to collapse on its own footprint?Man,that's engineering.And the way the MSM fingered the perps,pictures and all,in 24? hours was the greatest feat of reportage in history wot?And shipping all that steel to China with alacrity,not bad in resource recovery and recycling eh?And finding the tail of flight 93 a half? mile away from the (alleged)fuselage,nice detective work eh?To say that 9-11 is full of holes is to insult swiss cheese.

Posted by: dahoit | May 15 2014 16:11 utc | 48

The UK foreign Minister after the "Friends of Syria" meeting: No mention of the formation of a Syrian transitional government, no mention of Bashar al Assad's overthrow, no mention of weapons for the "moderate rebels". Overall the usual ICC threats, some promised money for refugees and more importantly the urgent matter of dealing with the terrorists that are potentially creeping in the West and in Arab countries.

We have also agreed unanimously to take further steps together, through a co-ordinated strategy, to increase our support for the moderate opposition, the National Coalition and for its Supreme Military Council and associated moderate armed groups; to do everything we can to hold the Assad regime accountable for the terror it is perpetrating, including through Security Council referral to the International Criminal Court; to work together to counter the rising forces of extremism and to complete the removal of Syria’s chemical weapons; and to step-up our efforts to deliver humanitarian aid across borders and across lines irrespective of the consent of the regime. And we say at the end of our Communiqué we have directed our officials to implement a core group action plan.

Posted by: Virgile | May 15 2014 16:51 utc | 49

Virgile, perhaps the main purpose of maintaining this increasingly useless 'moderate Islamist front' is to reinforce the essential, fundamental legend that the West and al-Qaeda are deadly, planetary-scale entities locked in a fateful conflict the results of which justify all the crap the West has done. And it really is getting harder and harder to maintain the myth of the planet-stopping evil of AQ and the vital necessity of destroying multiple countries to get at it, because nobody in the real world pays any attention to Zawahiri, and clearly anybody can pick up the "brand" AQ and drop it again at will, just to be scary. So, the West has to have someone who (purportedly) is not AQ so that it can say, "Look! We're fighting it! We hate it! AQ! Honestly!" if possible forever.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 15 2014 17:22 utc | 50

Latest from Penny: Very interesting.

Posted by: ben | May 15 2014 17:45 utc | 51

@18 "But let us say that the official fairytale is actually close to the truth. What would make you want to defend the government position? Is it because the poor devils have so little means of getting their story out through the MSM, and so you are stepping up to the plate to help out?"

For goodness sakes, I am saying Bush and others lied about and suppressed the main motive for the attack! What I am doing ISN'T
defending the government position!" This is the main problem with the conspiracy mindset of the "9/11 truth movement" which is draining away rational thought and destroying basic thinking skills.

When an event happens, who the hell starts using terms link "official story" to label what happen other than people trying to position their theory as if it is a rebelling against he establishment? Look over the videos in the playlist, there has been a powerful agenda to protect the policy of supporting Israel and to keep the American people clueless so they won't reassess the policy of supporting Israel:

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 15 2014 17:55 utc | 52

Jesus Fucking Christ America is full of fascist fucking retards.

Hey kids, here's a psyop for the retarded right led by an ex-military dbag who was in charge of - surprise - Psychological Operations at various points throughout his career.

Operation American Spring

Yes, this a proposed 10 MILLION person march to overthrow Obama led by a bunch of nutter ex-military dbags.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 15 2014 19:23 utc | 53

Presented without much comment:

Sony Pictures Acquires Film Rights to GG's Book

Yeah, but I probably should quit ripping on that fucking fake journo/war criminal protector/psyop stooge, right?

My vote for GG's role? Sean Hayes.

Snowden, OTOH, will be totally CGI.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 15 2014 19:56 utc | 54

What's up with Boko Haram? LUNCH WITH MICHELE OBAMA

Posted by: ProPeace | May 15 2014 22:49 utc | 55

Greenwald sold the rights to Babs Broccoli, daughter of Cubby Broccoli, the incredibly talented Jewish producer who created the James Bond films, a true act of Jewish philanthropy in itself, for which thinking people including Greenwald should get down on their knees and thank God, especially if like Greenwald they claim to be total agnostics and only do yoga, because without such talented producers, Hollywood would cease to go round the sun. Babs Broccoli sold the whole package, with her as producer, on to Sony, which means more massive megabucks than ordinary eyes can imagine looking at in one place. I would think along the lines of "All The President's Men." But then, what do I know? I never watch movies at all, since I consider that to do so is to undergo brainwashing by TPTB without even getting paid for it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 16 2014 0:21 utc | 56

US is meddling in Western China

Posted by: Willy2 | May 16 2014 1:01 utc | 57

Virgile @40
Why are the US and the UK continuing to support the top representatives of the Syrian opposition although the insurgents have lost the war?
The top leaders of the opposition must know a lot of details about the way the war against Syria was started, about the question who instigated it, about the use of UNHCR refugee camps to recruit fighters against Syria, about the number of foreign mercenaries used by the western powers in Syria, about the training such unities received, about the time and details of the delivery of weapons to their unities, about the personnel used in such operations. The leaders of the opposition might well be in a position to identify the western decision-makers responsible for this war. They are certainly possessing a lot of information which, if published, could be harmful to western intelligence and western decision makers. That is why I believe the western powers will continue to support the leaders of the opposition; that is also why the US and UK gave diplomatic immunity to representatives of the opposition, thus avoiding any taxation for the payments they will continue to receive, avoiding examination of the origin of funds used for this purpose and avoiding law suits against opposition leaders.

Posted by: alpino | May 16 2014 8:05 utc | 58

It seems the US press is publishing interviews with Homs survivors. This won't happen in the French one (or only with the so-called rebels made heroes, as Le monde already started)

Posted by: Mina | May 16 2014 8:24 utc | 59

As a trusted friend of Israel, let me remind you to listen to your weekly 30 Minutes of H8, on National Propaganda Radio's All Things Considered, as Ms. Teri 'So' Gross interviews the former US Ambassador to Russia, Michael 'MIC' McFaul, as he slowly and meticulously paints his 'Cast Lead' figurine of President Putin into everything that O'Biden truly represents: media suppression, national espionage, black propaganda ops, global hegemony, economic war crimes and generally unconstitutional police-state policies,...uhh, did I miss anything?

That, my friends, is your portrait of 'Bad Guy' Putin, and Assad too, as long as we're painting international relations into a corner. Our current Ambassador to France has no State experience whatsoever, and doesn't even speak French, because America is truly the Last Best Hope of Mankind (not so much for pregnant women). Some Pigs Are More Equal™!

Then as a reminder, never, ever, ever let your online cookies collection include such Nexus of Nefariousness psyop websites as Aletho, Citizens Trade, or Climate Depot.

That would flag you as a Disruptor.

We most certainly don't want Americans to know that their IL leaders are planning wholesale annexation of Golan to house expatriated Ukrainians, or that US leaders are opening trade flood gates to Vietnam, which pays their workers $0.52 cents an hour, or that a stealth Climate Tithe has been enacted in the form of a National RFID Interstate Toll Program.

Remember the words of Democritus, 380 BC: "... the soul will either be disturbed, or it will be at rest, in which case it regulates thoughts and actions harmoniously. Freedom from disturbance is the condition that causes human happiness, and this is the ethical goal, ... a state in which the soul lives peacefully and tranquilly, undisturbed by fear or superstition or any other feeling."

You are either with US-IL-NATO, or you are with the AnaBaptists, and they will target you.

"E pluribus what difference does it make."
Good Queen Hillary

Posted by: Chin Bikh | May 16 2014 9:20 utc | 60

This guy didn't make it to the MSM. Ukrainians are more sexy?

Posted by: Mina | May 16 2014 9:27 utc | 61


If you read Sean Hayes biopic, you might chose again. A true self-made man is rare indeed.

So for the role of GG, I'd arrange for Johnny Depp to play the part of a: 'struggling investigative journalist who wins a Pulitizer Prize after selling the collected works of an American agent-provocateur, the evil 'Snowden''; while at the same time Depp can reconstrue for his fan base his once-in-a-life-time performance as profoundly-retarded 'Jack' in POTC:

"Up is down. That's just maddeningly unhelpful. Why are these things never clear?"

Posted by: Chin Bikh | May 16 2014 9:43 utc | 63


So you're saying '30 tons' (sic) of molten aluminum ...
when exposed to oxygen-deprived burning JP5 kerosene ...
reacts violently expolosively when it contacts water ...
such as has occurred at every single airport crash ...
when dowsed with water sprays from fire control ...

So just as WTC was the first-ever skyscraper to collapse after burning, WTC is also unique as being the first example ever of molten aluminum exothermic chemical reaction with water.

Is that what you're claiming? That molten aluminum "and a little rust" is exothermic
in contact with cold water spray?

Would you mind doing the stoichiometry? Here, I'll get you started:

Al + H20 -> Ka + Bl + Ue! + ~~~~~bazgillions of Btu's of craterous! energy ~~~~~~

It's no wonder America has been so easily looted down to it's undershorts. Take any
American 5-year old and then parboil them for the Vampire, ... their parents would put
up a yellow ribbon poster on the corner: 'Please help us find Johnny, and the missing $3.3 TRILLION the Pentagon's 'misplaced', and $8.4 TRILLION that Bernanke can't account for!'

Let's ask Larry: Silverstein Properties

Posted by: Chin Bikh | May 16 2014 10:42 utc | 64

west keeps going down...
Now boys need to wear skirts apparently.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 16 2014 13:37 utc | 65


My bad esp. for non-Americans. I really chose Hayes b/c IMO he looks like GG and was thinking he could reprise the Jack McFarland character so as to perfectly capture GG's hysterical self-serving bullshit nonsense.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 16 2014 13:59 utc | 67

Alpino @58

Yes, this is part of the reason, but I think it is also not to admit that they a moving toward a humiliating defeat.
The West has been going from defeat to defeat in the last 20 years. After having lost Syria, they now hang on trying not to loose Ukraine.
To do that they encourage violence and wouldn't care less of the disaster they are creating.
Yet they are getting worried that they may get back this violence on their own ground in a way or another.
They are torn between a growing apprehension of the pandora box they have opened and their imperialist desire of revenge toward Assad and Putin. This is why they are divided, just giving big words and promises and taking no serious actions.

Posted by: Virgile | May 16 2014 14:19 utc | 68

Was that a Hebrew School in France wearing skirts?Sounds normal,as the women rule their roost,do they not?sheesh.(maybe a source for their very large gender confused numbers)
And GG never has had any Israeli revelations,which arouses my curiosity.And yes,his fanboys are legion,but he has been better than most as an info source,and commenting is pretty filter free,which is definitely not the norm among most sites.

Posted by: dahoit | May 17 2014 14:19 utc | 69

If the "official government position" on 9-11-2001 didn't include advocacy of punishing gross criminal negligence and investigating possible Israeli knowledge, it was deficient.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 17 2014 20:50 utc | 70

thailand [another china friendly govt bite the dust], mh370 [i knew it's a ff from the outset], nigeria kidnapping [oops , nigeria has been cozying up to china lately], boko haram attacking chinese workers [is it obligatory for terrarists to *baptise* themselves with attacks on chinese ?], xinjiang terrorisms ......
now, an air disaster in laos [another china friendly country] in which the defence minister, his deputy plus a dozen of vips wiped out......
here's a simple math question, no conspiracy theory please, this is exact science,
whats the odds that this latest disaster in laos is just another coincidence ?

lots of problem with moa lately

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:01 utc | 71

thailand [another china friendly govt bite the dust], mh370 [i knew it's a ff from the outset], nigeria kidnapping [oops , nigeria has been cozying up to china lately], boko haram attacking chinese workers [is it obligatory for terrarists to *baptise* themselves with attacks on chinese ?], xinjiang terrorisms ......
now, an air disaster in laos [another china friendly country] in which the defence minister, his deputy plus a dozen of vips wiped out......
here's a simple math question, no conspiracy theory please, this is exact science,
whats the odds that this latest disaster in laos is just another coincidence ?

lots of problem with moa lately

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:08 utc | 72

thailand [another china friendly govt bite the dust], mh370 [i knew it's a ff from the outset], nigeria kidnapping [oops , nigeria has been cozying up to china lately], boko haram attacking chinese workers [is it obligatory for terrarists to *baptise* themselves with attacks on chinese ?], xinjiang terrorisms ......
now, an air disaster in laos [another china friendly country] in which the defence minister, his deputy plus a dozen of vips wiped out......
here's a simple math question, no conspiracy theory please, this is exact science,
whats the odds that this latest disaster in laos is just another coincidence ?

lots of problem with moa lately

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:09 utc | 73

thailand [another china friendly govt bite the dust], mh370 [i knew it's a ff from the outset], nigeria kidnapping [oops , nigeria has been cozying up to china lately], boko haram attacking chinese workers [is it obligatory for terrarists to *baptise* themselves with attacks on chinese ?], xinjiang terrorisms ......
now, an air disaster in laos [another china friendly country] in which the defence minister, his deputy plus a dozen of vips wiped out......
here's a simple math question, no conspiracy theory please, this is exact science,
whats the odds that this latest disaster in laos is just another coincidence ?

lots of problem with moa lately

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:09 utc | 74

sorry b
please delete the extras !

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:14 utc | 75

sorry b
please delete the extras !

Posted by: denk | May 23 2014 18:14 utc | 76

venezuela, ukraine, thailand, ph, vietnam, xinjiang, nigeria [kidnapping, attacks on chinese workers]....
now we have another air disaster in laos which coincidentally wipe out the defence minister n his colleagues.
the cuns are on a roll.

hmmm, almost forget about mh370, nobody is talking about it any more except the families themselves.
the priority now is *bring our girls [sic] home*, boko haram is now *our top security concern* [in addition to china, russia ], havent u heard ?
its so scary, what with all those direct flights from nigeria , blared the headlines !

mh370, cui bono ?
should be a piece of cake right ?

ask these cunts
[its a he, but his cunt face needs some re-arranging, its very inviting]

here's a real cunt, a she.
on xinjiang bloodbath...
*This is one group of Muslim terrorists we should support. They are leading the only rebellion in China*
on wapo, btw i fucked her real good.

Posted by: denk | May 25 2014 4:33 utc | 77

5/27/2014 - Webster Tarpley Analyzes European Elections

Posted by: Paty Kerry | May 28 2014 13:26 utc | 78

"TrueCrypt is not secure,” official SourceForge page abruptly warns

Sounds like they got handed one of the NSA's poison letters. Very suspicious timing, and the message seems worded to say "Can't trust us anymore, sorry folks!"

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | May 29 2014 4:59 utc | 79

‘A new level of integration’: Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan sign Eurasian Economic Union

Posted by: Paty Kerry | May 29 2014 8:22 utc | 80

*The U.S. can get away with almost limitless carnage in Africa*

africa, only africa ?

Posted by: denk | May 30 2014 2:10 utc | 81

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