News & views …
(other then about Ukraine)
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April 17, 2014
Open Thread 2014-10
News & views … (other then about Ukraine)
Comments
Someone on the last thread cited Marx as having said that the victory of the (global) proletariat was “inevitable”. I’m not content with this, and I shall explain briefly why. It’s very easy to reconstruct Marx’s train of thought on this, because he expands on it repeatedly. So it is equally easy to show that it rests on assumptions which are far from secure. A much better formula is Rosa Luxemburg’s “socialism or barbarism,” because barbarism is a permanent possibility. The contradiction which afflicts the proletariat may indeed be predicted to grow more and more pregnant with revolution, as long as any particular cycle of capitalist accumulation continues. But it is always possible for the capitalist class, the ruling class that is, to escape the contradiction and its consequences by starting major wars. These destroy the industrial capital base of entire countries, pushing them back up to 50 years in their levels of development. Thus, the global capitalist class gets a breather while it rebuilds the shattered industries of the devastated countries, which will be more labour-intensive than otherwise they would have been, and thus will yield higher profits. An excellent example is the so-called “German post-WW2 economic miracle.” But after 10 or 20 years of boom, the shattered country will have been brought back up to the equivalent level of industrial development, labour productivity, and capital-intensiveness, so its profit rates will fall back to the norm. At this point, another war is indicated. At the limit, a complete devastation of the entire habitable globe would produce (assuming the species survived at all) hundreds of years of industrial development with all the joys associated therewith, first and foremost labour-intensivity, because the species would be starting again almost from sticks and stones, but under global capitalist controls. Thus, “socialism or barbarism”. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 17 2014 11:52 utc | 1
Posted by: virgile | Apr 17 2014 12:23 utc | 2 Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 17, 2014 7:52:07 AM | 1
Sounds to me more like English gentlemen will win. Posted by: somebody | Apr 17 2014 13:09 utc | 3 There is a superb piece by Robert Parry on Consortiumnews today about the US media and the Ukraine. It’s hung on yesterday’s egregious NY Times article Russia Is Quick to Bend Truth About Ukraine, but its scope is broader.
The casualness of this propaganda – as it spreads across the U.S. media spectrum from Fox News to MSNBC, from the Washington Post to the New York Times – is not just wretched journalism but it is reckless malfeasance jeopardizing the lives of many Ukrainians and the future of the planet. Posted by: RBD | Apr 17 2014 13:27 utc | 4 For one of the best things on the (appalling) state of organized labor in the United States check out Gregg Shotwell’s excellently written and on the mark “A Practical Solution to an Urgent Need” in the latest Monthly Review. Posted by: Mike Maloney | Apr 17 2014 13:41 utc | 5 From RT: Posted by: ben | Apr 17 2014 13:57 utc | 6 Scientists Support Seymour Hersh Posted by: Virgile | Apr 17 2014 14:03 utc | 7 virgile: Obourne seems to be one of the few journalists in the West who challenges the mainstream media’s deceptions and blatant lies. Not so long ago, he managed to get a documentary on to national TV (a magnificent achievement considering the obstacles he must have encountered) here in the UK that exposed the Israel lobby and it’s intertwined relationship with all the main British political parties. I don’t know if you will be able to watch it because of TV rights restrictions but here is the YouTube url: RBD @4 Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2014 14:21 utc | 9
Posted by: ruralito | Apr 17 2014 14:24 utc | 10 From Truthdig on Palestine: Posted by: ben | Apr 17 2014 14:33 utc | 11 Mike Maloney @5 Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2014 14:51 utc | 12 USE THE HEAD, FORGET THE HEART
well, if you take that crypto-religious attitude to it (which unfortunately most people do and did), then yeah, it’s “inevitable”, it’s “destined, ” history has spoken” and so forth. But personally I do not see it as a matter of faith like that: that the prophet Marx said it will come so it will, like the second coming of jesus, or the return of the mahdi or the predicted messianic times in judaism. On the contrary, because I do not believe in total mechanical determinism when it comes to human decisions and actions, I would never make the (rather preposterous) claim that the clockwork of history must eventually strike the hour of liberation. So excuse me if I sound a little sarcastic with those comparisons. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 17 2014 17:13 utc | 14 There was nothing of this in the mainstream. God save the children and all suffering innocents of Syria. “According to the Jewish Telegraph Agency, Pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine say they didn’t have anything to do with it, despite the official-looking notice having what appears to be the signature of Denis Pushilin, the the leader of the pro-Russian separatists.” Posted by: Tom Murphy | Apr 17 2014 17:27 utc | 16 Sorry, I didn’t see the “other then about Ukraine” notice, I thought I read Open Thread same as was for the 9th. Posted by: Tom Murphy | Apr 17 2014 17:45 utc | 17 it is impossible to believe that any more-or-less uniformed and disciplined force would launch such a ridiculous exercise as that so-called “Proclamation to the Jews of Donetsk.” And the original report admitted that the CO, whose name I think is Pushilin, said that the letterhead etc looked genuine but the message was most certainly unauthorised and his organisation, the so-called “People’s Republic of Donetsk”, had no knowledge of it. BUT the disinfo merchants are out and running with this one, and they have now mangled that into this:
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 17 2014 17:47 utc | 18 @ 15 @ ANDY Posted by: virgile | Apr 17 2014 19:03 utc | 20 Bevin@9 Posted by: Knut | Apr 17 2014 19:31 utc | 21 Knut, it is funny that you should mention La Presse. For some extraordinary reason my English cousin reads it daily and says that it is a very good newspaper. Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2014 21:50 utc | 22 Mike Maloney @ 5 Posted by: Ken Nari | Apr 17 2014 21:52 utc | 23 The US is expanding its “footprint” in Africa under the umbrella of AFRICOM. Posted by: Willy2 | Apr 17 2014 22:00 utc | 24 Very good point US caught in own web of lies:
Posted by: ProPeace | Apr 17 2014 22:01 utc | 25 #25 I too worry that the Ukrainian crisis is going to undo progress in both Syria and Iran. I really think that Obama and Kerry were really ignorant about the possible repercussions of our meddling in Ukrainian politics. They probably thought that the US got away with it with Orange revolution and could do so again. I suspect that the neocons that advises Nuland had an idea how things might work out or at least they hoped that this crisis would happen. Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 17 2014 23:18 utc | 26 THE ROVING EYE Posted by: Santos | Apr 17 2014 23:42 utc | 27 @23 Everyone knows Jesus hates people who work together! Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 17 2014 23:54 utc | 28 Santos #27 That Pepe Escobar writes “Psaki, said that reports of CIA Director John Brennan telling regime changers in Kiev to “conduct tactical operations” – or an “anti-terrorist” offensive – in eastern Ukraine are “completely false”. Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 17 2014 23:59 utc | 29 Strangely balanced report on Venezuelan Collectivos Posted by: ruralito | Apr 18 2014 2:19 utc | 30 Look like ISIS ( or Da’esh ) is about to below up Iraq and unfortunately , unlike Syria , Iraq hasn’t any army to stand against them . Posted by: Tanha | Apr 18 2014 6:39 utc | 31 She Tweets Serious Allegation, THEN She Claims RT “faked the translation”! Posted by: Tom Murphy | Apr 18 2014 7:00 utc | 32 Posted by: Tom Murphy | Apr 18, 2014 3:00:01 AM | 32 Posted by: scalawag | Apr 18 2014 8:03 utc | 33 your site was down for a while last night, you might want to mirror it somewhere else Posted by: yoursite | Apr 18 2014 11:00 utc | 34 Three Easy Pieces Posted by: Chip Nikh | Apr 18 2014 11:47 utc | 35 major air defence exercise on day of 911, Posted by: denk | Apr 18 2014 17:01 utc | 36 I want to confirm as well that your site and Pat Lang’s have been inaccessible for varying spells of time over the last few days. Posted by: Maracatu | Apr 18 2014 17:02 utc | 37 @ 37 Maracatu Posted by: Yul | Apr 18 2014 17:31 utc | 38 It may be getting monotonous, but I just want to counteract that little plug for “Colonel Lang”. I decided some time ago, I think it was after looking at a Jones interview with Col Donn de Grand Pre, who “knows personally the pilot who shot down Flight 93 on 9/11,” and I said to myself, I’ve had enough of these goddam colonels. I cherish the most obvious and yet most intriguing of these, though, someone with whom I was in email correspondence for years, on and off. When I started making little jokes about al-CiA-duh he put me down, but he was fun. He was a retired Lt-Col from a specialist psyops unit, in fact he was the Lt-Col who created it (for the real in-crowd: I’m talking about Lt-Col Mike Aquino). The trick is to somehow manage to present oneself as a great “rebel against the establishment.” Obviously this is easier to do from the Right than from the Left. So communicating with someone like that is already an exercise in mutual psychological warfare from the word go. But it can be fun, and you can open up unexpected compartments in your own mind, that you didn’t know were there. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 18 2014 18:20 utc | 39 I just found this fun fact on wikipedia: “Slang terms for Lt-Col historically used by the US military include “light colonel,” “short colonel,” “light bird,” “half-colonel”, “bottlecap colonel” (referring to the silver oak leaf insignia), and “telephone colonel” (from self-reference as “colonel” when using a telephone). By contrast, full colonels are sometimes referred to (but not addressed) as “full-bird colonels” because of their silver eagle insignia, which are worn facing forward with head and beak pointing towards the wearer’s front. Of all US military commissioned officer ranks, only the colonel’s eagle has a distinct right and left insignia. All other commissioned officer rank insignia can be worn on either the right or left side.” Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 18 2014 18:42 utc | 40 Thanks for the links Virgile Posted by: Mina | Apr 18 2014 19:12 utc | 41 Speaking of Pat Lang’s blog there is a good one just up by Ali? titled where is Putin coming from. They have attracted some commentators at that site. Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 18 2014 19:26 utc | 42 Rebels funded by Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are doing a useful job at decimating each other
Posted by: Virgile | Apr 18 2014 20:06 utc | 43 Ken Nari@23, Posted by: Cynthia | Apr 18 2014 21:17 utc | 45 @44 Posted by: Chip Nikh | Apr 18 2014 21:49 utc | 46 @46 #47 b calling on b , there is a lunatic lose in the house. What are we supposed to do? Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 19 2014 0:06 utc | 48 the Natasha Poklonskaya machine just keeps rolling on! sex symbol of the Russian Spring? Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 1:15 utc | 49 Tove, Natalya, by the bye is just like Vladimir Vladimiyovich, an offering to frantic humanity from the just good God. Aren’t they beautiful. video.yandex.ru/users/gdl77/view/446/ Линда — Беги Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 3:22 utc | 54 Posted by: Michaël | Apr 18, 2014 9:38:44 PM | 51 Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 3:32 utc | 55 Be fair, scalawag, bernhard is travelling. He said he won’t be spending a lot of time looking at this thing for a day or two. So the mice come out to play. Mice with horns. One has to observe a certain farcical quality in all this, some of us butting at the hedge with our horns, and some of trying to butt out but finding our horns have become entangled in the hedge. My whole life has been like that, in one way or another. PS: note to kind & solicitous gentlemen & ladies of the NSA: The reference to butting at hedges is not intended as crypto-bin-ladenism. I don’t accept that the tape where UBL supposedly joked about the supposed 9/11 suicide pilots as butting at the twin towers, is even genuine. That’s the ‘banana nose’ video. Come to that, I don’t even accept UBL was genuine, or that Zawahiri is genuine. As far as I’m concerned, they’re all just false flag artists working for Bandar. Talking of which, your Col Lang’s article about Bandar’s resignation does not to me suggest a great counter-intelligence wizard at work. To me, the self-evident reading of it is that Bandar has gone off the official radar, the better to pursue his job, which is running AQ right across MENA. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 19 2014 3:51 utc | 56 Is it possible to refer to all these creatively-writing Lt-Cols as “half-bird colonels”? Or is that going too far? Cos they don’t have any birds on their shoulders or on their lapels or wherever, not even half ones, they just have bottlecaps. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 19 2014 3:55 utc | 57 Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 18, 2014 11:51:30 PM | 56 Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 4:03 utc | 58 “sucks ass. ;)” Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 4:11 utc | 59 @35 chip – enough w/ the ‘obama created africom in 2008’ nonsense – you were here posting your creative writings when we published the series on its standup linked in the left column on the home page – what’s the purpose of your revisionism? Posted by: b real | Apr 19 2014 4:20 utc | 60 ISIS spokesman Abu Mohammed al-Adnani said in a statement posted on Jihadi forums:
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 19 2014 4:26 utc | 61 It looks like Slavophilia is back, now with Russian government support:
To quote the Wikipedia article on the Slavophiles:
Typical of the Western press not to give any historical context, and to act as if this is something new. If B bans for antisemitism, why has Michael not been blocked? Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 19 2014 4:51 utc | 63 @Massinissa #63: #64 the juvenile references to ZUS, etc got very tiresome but the other problem with p was his utter lack of sophistication — many grandiose statements, with much factual (some of it accurate) in these interminably long posts that when distilled down to content were quite empty. Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 19 2014 5:28 utc | 65 Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 19, 2014 1:28:33 AM | 65 Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 5:37 utc | 66 I love this bloody array of actually respectable intellects. But we have been lied to from our cradles. The World Hate Establishment’s penultimate deception is that globalist anti-humanity is all a vast evil Jewish conspiracy. Its ultimate deception is that Satan does not exist. So there. #64 OK I can accept that from you — you think I am an inferior man, if I translated that correctly. Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 19 2014 6:56 utc | 69 Retweeted Nina Byzantina (@NinaByzantina): Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 7:11 utc | 70 Nina Byzantina @NinaByzantina 10h Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 7:22 utc | 71 Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 19, 2014 2:56:56 AM | 69
Shows you the weakness of the analysis. Posted by: somebody | Apr 19 2014 7:29 utc | 72 russkies corrupting locals against the pure ukrainian fatherland? Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 8:24 utc | 73 http://rt.com/op-edge/sipri-report-us-defense-costs-392/ Report indicates that US aligned regimes are preparing for war Posted by: scalawag | Apr 19 2014 11:25 utc | 74 a trojan horse? whatever is Snowden up to? lets call out Edward Snowden Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 11:42 utc | 75 no Mr Edward Snowden President Putin doesnt have to be called to account…certainly not by a person who sought asylum.The Q he asks , the only answer he will accept is: yes russia engages in mass surveillance….any thing else he can claim is a lie. Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 11:56 utc | 76 first south koreas Victor Ahn, then americas Victor Wild now a ukrainian athlete chooses to represent Russia #goodsign…note how they are all fleeing the US and its allies for the land of the really free! Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 12:02 utc | 77 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d08_1397763033 # UI0qMRDGqf8cLftq.99 Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2014 12:08 utc | 78 b did specify up top that this thread shouldn’t focus on ukraine news Posted by: b real | Apr 19 2014 12:30 utc | 80 Why Israel Is Staying On The Sidelines In Ukraine Crisis Posted by: Virgile | Apr 19 2014 12:44 utc | 81 brian in prev. thread wrote something about BRICS and finance, wanted to add but it was OT so > Posted by: Noirette | Apr 19 2014 14:22 utc | 82 One in Five American Children Don’t Have Enough to Eat. Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 19 2014 14:26 utc | 83 Ever wonder where all those “information jobs” – hold your laughter – are that were promised you during the lead up to NAFTA and other assorted neoliberal abominations in 90s? Why, here’s your answer, pissants!!! Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 19 2014 14:41 utc | 84 More news on how pathetic Poland is and how embarrassingly obsequious their leadership is to The Pimpagon. Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 19 2014 14:52 utc | 85 Marx, Engels, the proletariat, and so on. Posted by: Noirette | Apr 19 2014 14:58 utc | 86 The proper slang for Lt.Colonel is Chicken Col.I believe. Posted by: dahoit | Apr 19 2014 15:18 utc | 87 81;They are letting their American brethren fellow neolibcon Zionists do the heavy anti Russian lifting.This way,though I’m sure Russia is aware of it,they can play both sides of the street.But to think the Israelis don’t have a dog in this fight is laughable.And that dog is international capitalism,along with their historical enmity,which of course include Ukrainians also. Posted by: dahoit | Apr 19 2014 15:28 utc | 88 #5;Organized labor in this ongoing recession(that our poohbahs keep saying we have turned the corner on?)is on the outside looking in,and has become silent.And the employers are creating worse working conditions,taking away rights and benefits and screwing the American worker.Work retail today?Sales goals,# hours to claim health benefits,blocked out days you can’t take off WO penalty,points systems for sick time,and cutthroat fellow workers stealing sales while being exploited also.All this in a time of job shortage.And who are the CEOs of most of these chains?And all the other wealth stealing corporate criminals?Slavers all. Posted by: dahoit | Apr 19 2014 15:39 utc | 89 75:My take on Snowdens talk about Putin is he is trying to regain his corrupt accusers trust in his evenhandedness.Impossible task,as most of his critics have a neolibcon(and shh…Zionists-wait,I bet you haven’t noticed the Zionists have supported every terrible decision,of which it would take an hour to list, made by US in the last 13 years,and before,)bias against exposing their sh*tstained panties. Posted by: dahoit | Apr 19 2014 16:04 utc | 90 20,23;Jesus, and churches,and church members,are not the same.If the modern church had any real belief in JC,they would follow His teachings.The NY Cardinal just reenacted the Procession,but his silence on everything about our war of terror belies his actions.And almost nationwide,its the same.I think it’s just cowardice on these churches,as with falling attendance,they are afraid of losing more congregants,when I believe its the opposite, church hypocrisy,that drives the people away.I wish Pope Francis could influence his members more,we will see. Posted by: dahoit | Apr 19 2014 16:33 utc | 91 Obama signs ‘terrorist activity’ law aimed at barring Iranian U.N. envoy | The Raw Story
Posted by: Fran | Apr 19 2014 17:16 utc | 92 @86 Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 19 2014 17:26 utc | 93 Ukraine’s security services claim to have arrested more than a dozen Russian operatives and intercepted phone calls that reveal the unrest is co-ordinated by Russian intelligence agents Snowden got too pussy it seems. He didnt dare standing up to the neocons and critics in the west for staying in Russia. Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 19 2014 19:18 utc | 95 @93 Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 19 2014 19:49 utc | 96 @Anonymous #95: @97 Well there might be someone similar for, I dont know, domestic corruption or something, but certainly not surveillance, because Russia isnt a goddamn Panopticon like the USA is. Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 19 2014 20:06 utc | 98 @Massinissa #98: 97 Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 19 2014 20:24 utc | 100 |
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