Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 03, 2014

In Cuba Another U.S. Government Abuse Of Online Communication

The Associated Press has an interesting story about another USAID project to overthrow the government of Cuba. USAID used several front companies to create a Twitter like SMS phone service in Cuba which was, after becoming popular, supposed to be used to initiate anti-government flash mobs and civil strife:

At its peak, the project drew in more than 40,000 Cubans to share news and exchange opinions. But its subscribers were never aware it was created by the U.S. government, or that American contractors were gathering their private data in the hope that it might be used for political purposes.

"There will be absolutely no mention of United States government involvement," according to a 2010 memo from Mobile Accord, one of the project's contractors. "This is absolutely crucial for the long-term success of the service and to ensure the success of the Mission."

Somewhat astonishing is again the long term effort, the tenancy and the seemingly unlimited amount of money going into such subversive U.S. programs.

USAID has long been used to "promote democracy", i.e. to overthrow any government the U.S. government does not like. Several foreign governments have have taken the right steps and banned USAID activities in their countries. But with the use of front companies in various countries and methods similar to the CIA some critical USAID work is off the record and often hidden behind seemingly native and harmless programs. The open and legal USAID work, for example some 65 projects in the Ukraine, is often only a cover for its deeper projects.

As in the case the AP story uncovers USAID and various other government services may create and use online tools to influence masses and abuse them for their own purpose. Russia Today is promoting a new app through which people can "vote" like in a Occupy general assembly. But unlike such an Occupy assembly, where people are physically present, such an online vote tally can be easily manipulated to pretend a consensus for something that is not consensual at all.

It is important not only to be aware of the possible manipulation but to also warn others, especially younger people, of the danger of accepting "virtual" persons, movements and politics as a replacement of the real world. While it is also possible to manipulate the factual reality it is much more expensive to do so than to abuse the "virtual" online realm.

While USAID had to create a Twitter clone for its purpose in Cuba it does not have to do so in other countries. There Twitter is already established and can be readily (ab-)used by foreign governments just like USAID had planned for its Cuba clone. Blocking Twitter, as Turkey has recently done, may be at times necessary to prevent U.S. sponsored "regime change" endeavors.

Posted by b on April 3, 2014 at 9:21 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Since 2007 the U.S. has spent $516 on 'intelligence' operations. They have to spend it on something, and I bet 'democracy promotion' as you define it takes up the biggest chunk of the budget.

Posted by: fairleft | Apr 3 2014 9:45 utc | 1

Money used to create flash mobs and foment protests in dissident countries; money to counter protests in one's own country. Money now flowing "leitimately" to influence elections. And there is an attempt to whitewash and give this sort of thing legitimacy. How would they like it if someone else did it to the US? Well, there is at least one case where this is openly done with clear results.

Posted by: Maracatu | Apr 3 2014 10:29 utc | 2

"leitimately" = legitimately

Posted by: Maracatu | Apr 3 2014 10:30 utc | 3

The "real world"? Increasingly, there is no "real world" if ever there was. The virtual world is increasingly the "substance" of existence. That's where the action, or is it inaction?, is. Hence the focused effort to manipulate this new reality. Build it and they will come.

You mention USAID, but there are so many others, and it's not just the West. Anyone with a stake has a leg in the game, and that includes Russia, China and some notable Middle Eastern tyrannies. Information Clearinghouse, for example. There's Ivy League-educated Taliban actively recruiting in that virtual space.

Or your very own comment section. IMO, it's spook central. The patterns are obvious. It's spook talk, layered thick, heavy and repetitiously with over-analysis. The average reader tunes it out and submissively, and subliminally, incorporates the misdirectional sentiment and ends up unable to see the forest but for the trees. Mission Accomplished.

Let's not forget, both Obama and Putin come from a background steeped in these social-engineering protocols. Obama's mother was in the employ of the Ford Foundation which is essentially the same thing as USAID…just another name plate. Obama's father was a CIA recruit. His grandfather was military intelligence…similar to Pat Lang. I have no doubt Obama's grandfather wore that hat until the moment he drew his last breath and beyond.

The intelligence services, at least the Western variety, like their potential future leader recruits to be fatherless, i.e. Clinton and Obama. This way, the intelligence service fills the fatherless psychical gap and it's considered family, jewels and all.

Putin and Obama; brothers by another mother…or is it another father?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Apr 3 2014 10:53 utc | 4

Posted by: fairleft | Apr 3, 2014 5:45:08 AM | 1

Oops, that should be $516 BILLION ...

Posted by: fairleft | Apr 3 2014 11:09 utc | 5

The USA promotes "business" and "democracy" and then uses it to overthrow popular governments. Then, when those in the crosshairs try and fire back, there is a media barrage against "dictatorship" and "repression". But of course The USA doesn't care about business or democracy, in fact it does great damage to both with its tactics. It cares only about dominance.

Cold Handjob in @4 claims there are spooks here, if so, he ought to name them instead of making empty accusations.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 3 2014 12:10 utc | 6

hahaha and so much for respecting other states (as US claim that russia arent doing!)

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 3 2014 12:46 utc | 7

$516,000,000,000;And we get sh*t sandwiches.Divide and conque rears its ugly Zionist head again.

Posted by: dahoit | Apr 3 2014 13:01 utc | 8

only an american could be this stupid:
'Coats, a Republican senator from Indiana, was deeply disappointed by the ruling, saying, “FIFA suggests that outrageous misbehavior by member states does not matter because such decisions are irrelevant to soccer.”'
after all when it comes to 'outrageous misbehavior' USA is in a league of its own! war on iraq,...2 million dead...war on Afghanistan 1 million dead...war on Libya, support for alqwaeda in war on syria....bombing yemen somalia pakiatan etc etc ad infinitum..

Posted by: brian | Apr 3 2014 13:04 utc | 9

until countries BAN US embassies and agencies, expect more from the sociopathic entity....US is now the greatest danger to the free world and must be shunned

Posted by: brian | Apr 3 2014 13:06 utc | 10


Maybe a rumour.
FIFA threat to kick out Israel.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 3 2014 13:27 utc | 11

@ 4: Think I agree with most, if not all, of that post.

@ 6: No need to name anyone here. IMO, to assume paid trolls didn't visit, would be a bit naive. Read, and judge for yourself.

Posted by: ben | Apr 3 2014 14:14 utc | 12

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 3, 2014 9:27:51 AM | 11

"Maybe a rumour."

Looks legit enough. FIFA threatens to boot Israel, rebuffs American congress trough feeders? FIFA will be hit by a color revolution and soccer games will become the next Al Qaida targets for sure now.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 3 2014 14:57 utc | 13

@9, FIFA doesn't even ban members when it is relevant (ie Israel's army arresting / shooting footballers from Palestinian national team for years...), so the russian (non-)"case" must have been easy for them to judge ^^

Posted by: zingaro | Apr 3 2014 15:02 utc | 14

From RT on Cuban Twitter clone:

Posted by: ben | Apr 3 2014 15:19 utc | 15

thanks for the post b.
i agree in part with @4, but where is their willing attempts to overthrow gov't's in faraway countries in anything like a similar manner that the usa works so hard at in the example that b gives? perhaps @4 can enlighten us on them. instead we have a country - the usa - which turned iraq into a shithole, trying to do the same in syria.. next stop iran, or have they finally figured out it might be smart to get some balance of power to control their fanatical friends in saudi arabia? the usa's meddling far exceeds that of any other country today and while it is easy to claim ''everyone is doing it'' this attitude overlooks the seriousness of the usa's actions.. describing it as hypocritical doesn't do barely any justice to their actions.

Posted by: james | Apr 3 2014 15:29 utc | 16

Libya might be the most egregious example of invading, destroying and looting... On "phony pretexts" no less. Amazing and heartbreaking interview

Posted by: Colinjames | Apr 3 2014 15:55 utc | 17

Makes one wonder if the charges against Alan Phillip Gross for allegedly plotting against the Cuban state for U.S. intelligence services by bringing satellite phones and computer equipment into Cuba for the island's Jewish community in fact are well-founded.

Posted by: lysias | Apr 3 2014 16:03 utc | 18

@16 james: yeah, and then there's the fact that the US creates situations where the only possible reaction is to try to use the same tactics. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Cold War (or should we say Cold War I?) is the best example. Then there's the fact that any nation can be said to have a right to legitimately defend its own interests. The trouble is that the US defines its own interests as anything that happens anywhere on the planet... and beyond.

Posted by: Snake Arbusto | Apr 3 2014 16:29 utc | 19

#18: I always thought the Alan Gross case was extremely well-founded. The Cubans displayed a whole range of unmistakably espionage- or subversion-orientated tools, from textbooks to radio gadgets, taken from his person and from his pad. Of course, you can say the Cubans just planted all this stuff on him, and that in reality he was and is a harmless philanthropist and family man, blessed with an especial love for his fellow Jews wherever they may be, and so on.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 3 2014 16:34 utc | 20

The CIA has amassed billions from its drug running operations over the decades to the point it can operate independently of whatever congress provides in its budget and thus the increase in the Empire's destabilization efforts without increasing the overt budget for such actions. The next tense region will be the South China Sea now that Indonesia and Philippines have filed for arbitration at the Hague, with Vietnam likely to join the process. There're also interesting events happening in Taiwan.

But the biggest problem remains US/NATO basing policy on its Big Lie regarding Ukraine. Yet, there're also happenings in the Balkan countries that should be watched as potential blowback for NATO.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 3 2014 16:53 utc | 21

The Cuba case is very interesting because in Dominican Republic, it is quite the opposite. The island is a frenzy of USAID activity!!!
They pay the local people in American wages, so the loyalty to their nation is quite suspect.
The online newspaper, actually developed the same way Zunzuneo did.
Light local stories, sports, and cultural stories. They developed a critical mass of readers.
They recruited a large group of the best loca journalists as the editors, etc & presto.
They now have an unofficial organ that expresses the views of the USA, veiled behind supposed local voices.
It's nefarious!!!
Why is the USA so wicked?
Dios mio!!!

Posted by: Fernando | Apr 3 2014 17:04 utc | 22

And now about the freedom loving, democracy supporting Cuban community in Miami.
Well they were armed tooth and nail by the CIA, they received exceedingly generous tax benefits and patronage from the federal government.
The local mini empires this community posses is staggering, logistics, trucking, construction, finance, healthcare, hospitality, entertainment.
You name they have it.
While engaging in terrorism, fraud, narcotics as well.
No other Hispanic community has achieved the unparalleled success of the Cubans, gracias Uncle Sam!!!

Posted by: Fernando | Apr 3 2014 17:13 utc | 23

@4 Only spooks accuse others of being spooks.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 3 2014 17:18 utc | 24

I remember discussing the general topic once with an acquaintance. "How can they [the CIA] waste all that money?" he asked. I explained to him that they were wasting our money, so they weren't bothered at all.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Apr 3 2014 17:19 utc | 25


Theres a joke in Latin America.

Why has the USA never had a regime change?

Because it doesnt have a US embassy.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 3 2014 17:19 utc | 26

Detailed account of Gross and his shenanigans from actual Cubans!

One of the double-agents who nabbed him:

Testimony of another double-agent:

Posted by: ruralito | Apr 3 2014 18:00 utc | 27

@26: Actually, the U.S. has had a regime change, a violent one at that. On Nov. 22, 1963.

Posted by: lysias | Apr 3 2014 18:15 utc | 28

China Hand wrote an excellent piece, discussing how the US could fund and engineer a Ukrainian equivalent in Taiwan.

From Kiev to Beijing...and Taipei

A certain amount of attention, and rightly so, has been paid to the discomfiture of the People's Republic of China (PRC) with Crimea unilaterally declaring independence from Ukraine. The PRC abstained on the UN Security Council condemnation of the vote, instead of supporting Russia with a "nay". The PRC possesses or covets several significant territories whose inhabitants, if given the opportunity, might eagerly defy the One China policy to announce, organize, and pass a referendum of independence: Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, Macau, and Taiwan.

Certainly, the PRC would have preferred that Russia persisted in its relatively principled and consistent opposition to the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo (which the West engineered at the expense of Serbian sovereignty and in order to get around footdragging by Russia on the adoption of a Kosovo constitution that would have led to independence anyway in pretty short order). Instead, Russian diplomats cited that instance of unilateral Western high-handedness to excuse the shenanigans of Crimea's parliament.

However, the PRC regime has more reason to worry about what happened in Kiev, not Sevastopol. [...]

One of the awkward truths of US China policy is that it appears to be increasingly driven by an anxiety that the PRC is becoming stronger and more aggressive, and the United States is under a certain amount of pressure to make a move to cut China down to size "before it's too late".

If the United States-either the Obama administration or the even more confrontational outfit that will take over if, as expected, Hillary Clinton claims the presidency in 2016-wants to stick it to the PRC, quickly and on the most favorable terms, and despite the PRC's determination to avoid a direct contest with the United States-Beijing's key point of vulnerability is Taiwan.

With the precedent of Ukraine, let's say that Ma Ying-jeou and the KMT decide to insulate Taiwan-mainland relations from the possibility of a KMT defeat in the 2016 polls and accelerate the development of cross-strait ties. This shall not stand! Declare the hard-core independence militants. Crowds appear before the presidential palace and refuse to disperse until their demands-maybe for reduction of cross-strait ties, maybe for a new unity government, maybe for a referendum on independence-are met. In Chen Shuibian, currently about halfway through a twenty-year sentence for corruption, there is even an imprisoned leader whose release could be demanded. Things get violent as the government, with its approvals hovering near single digits, encounters angry defiance as it tries to put an end to the crisis.

Taiwanese yearning for democracy and freedom outside the baleful shadow of communist China becomes a cause celebre. NGOs, politicians, celebrities, journalists, and money from the West and Japan come in. Japan, in particular, remembers its locally very popular history as the colonial ruler of Taiwan from 1895 until 1945, and offers moral and tangible support to the markedly pro-Japanese and anti-PRC elements in the Democratic People's Party. [...]

I think a more likely scenario for violent political unrest in Taiwan is that pro-independence forces, if egged on by the United States and Japan with the promise of recognition, might foment a political crisis in Taiwan, overwhelm the current government, declare independence, and dare the PRC to respond. That's pretty much what happened in Ukraine.

A Taiwan declaration of independence backed by Japan and the United States would force an existential choice on the PRC: does it swallow the humiliation of backing down on Taiwan, revealing itself to be a paper tiger in front of its Asian interlocutors? Or does it make good on its bluster and launch an attack to subjugate Taiwan? [...]

And so it comes as no surprise that Putin is willing to lend a hand in China's efforts to keep the United Snakes at bay.
Putin gives green light to sale of S-400 missile system to China

Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, has given a green light to sell the country's newest S-400 air defense guided missile system to China, which Russian media claim will give Beijing an edge in the airspace of the Taiwan Strait and over islands in the East China Sea at the center of a dispute with Japan, reports the military news website of, the Chinese-language website of China's Global Times. [...]

I look forward to the day when Russia, China, Venezuela and other nations plagued with nefarious US interference are turning the table and jointly start financing and actively helping opposition movements in the US to bring about the long overdue regime change in Washington.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Apr 3 2014 18:16 utc | 29

Does CounterPunch get CIA money? It just published a piece critical of Erdogan, mentioning Fethullah Gulen, but failing to note that he is backed by the CIA.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 18:29 utc | 30


Do you honestly think EVERYONE knows Gulen is CIA?

Not everyone knows.

Not really trying to defend counterpunch per se, but you cant use one piece of evidence missing, which is only common knowledge in the fringe of the blogosphere fringes, as evidence of Counterpunch being CIA.

Maybe it is CIA, but this is flimsy evidence.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 3 2014 18:50 utc | 31

I don't think blocking Twitter or other social media should ever be done, let alone justified, but I get where b is coming from. If we Americans were really in the business of promoting "democracy," then we wouldn't make a habit of leaving behind a new Islamic republic or fascist regime after every foreign adventure.

Posted by: Jon Lester | Apr 3 2014 18:57 utc | 32

@Massinissa #31:

Sorry, that was a flippant post. But I do get the impression that editorial quality control has gone down at CounterPunch since Alexander Cockburn died. Maybe it's just me.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 18:57 utc | 33

@30 "Does CounterPunch get CIA money?" It can be hard to tell.

The piece also left the reader in the dark re the content of Turkish officials' private-conversation-debut-appearance on YouTube, with no link even to a transcript.

Later, "Instead, it is now Erdogan who is seemingly getting closer to the methods used by authoritarian regimes, like the current one in Egypt, in employing a conspiracy-driven anti-western political rhetoric that casts local opposition as outsiders and against the Turkish nation. And to make matters worse, his authoritarian tendencies are not only restricted to habits of speech. In addition to banning YouTube and Twitter, and reorganizing the judiciary and the police, the AKP has also been contemplating Turkey’s version of the Patriot Act."

Sounds like a spooky hatchet job.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 3 2014 19:16 utc | 34

i was wondering how long it would take for the ' jewish conspiracy' would appear in a country as unlikely as cuba

but it seems some coever their prick with the protocoles

the very few jews in cuba have played an honorable role in the revolution & in the process of creating a country of defiance. in north america it has been jewish comrades who have been in the front line of the defense of cuba

they have names but they are known by their acts - nothing like the little fascist behind their keyboards

u s imperialism is the principal enemy not only of cuba but the world

in one century with over 100 coups, putsch's, destabilisation that the empire has organised - you will fin abglo irish names, bill donovan, dulles brothers, james jesus angleton, john negtoponte, cheney, negroponte petraeus,mcchrystal - no jews there, only us chickens

the real planners of the empires plans & hopefully its defeat are anglo irish, with a few greeks & italians

i will concede that in the middle east there are those of jewish origin but they are not the headliners nor the initiators, they are the donkeys, like wofowitz who would shame any decent jew - the plan however was drawn up by gringos - crackers if you like

israel britain & australia etc are pitiable vassals even if they are jackals

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Apr 3 2014 19:27 utc | 35

Erdogan is a piece of crap. He closed YouTube because of the leaking of a falseflag attack
to engage in Syria and rally the turkish sheep around him. The previous election he used
MaviMarmara-convoy (with a little help from his ziofriends)for his reelection. Disgusting!

Posted by: slirs | Apr 3 2014 19:30 utc | 36

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3, 2014 2:57:47 PM | 33

"Maybe it's just me."

I don't think I've seen much difference in their articles since Cockburn died and I've been reading Counterpunch since the 80's. Counterpunch has great variety of material, from very good to outright poor. They also have a large variety in the views expressed by the writers. One day they will publish something from James Petras, then the next something by Uri Avnery, for example. For this reason, they are one of the most independent sites on the web that I've seen.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 3 2014 19:30 utc | 37

lysias @28--

The first regime change in USA happened in 1787 when the Articles of Confederation and the governing structure it established were overthrown by the "Founding Fathers" semi-secret cabal that met in Philadelphia. The failure of that action to be taught properly is one major factor preventing action today. The difference between the two modes of governance is massive, with the Articles being fundamentally democratic, while the 1787 constitution is fundamentally authoritarian.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 3 2014 19:39 utc | 38

@slirs #36:

Erdogan is a piece of crap. He closed YouTube

As Sybil Edwards observed recently, in a matter of months, the Western press turned from portraying Erdogan as the great hope of Muslim democracy to being a corrupt dictator.

@scalawag #37:

They also have a large variety in the views expressed by the writers. […] For this reason, they are one of the most independent sites on the web that I've seen.

Fair enough.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 19:45 utc | 39

Another aspect of USAID:
I was looking into one of the partners of the Arseniy Yatsenyuk Foundation called Horizon Capital & found both their founders on the board of something called WNISEF, which is a private equity firm partnered with USAID.

Natalie A. Jaresko, co-founder & Chief Executive Officer – the former Chief of the Economic Section of the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, a member of President Yushchenko’s Foreign Investors Advisory Council, Jaresko still serves on the board of another company called the Western NIS Enterprise Fund, an equity fund that is in partnership with USAID in Ukraine & Moldova. Among WNISEF’s partners are Whitney MacMillan, multi-billionaire & the former CEO of Cargill, the world’s largest agricultural trading company; along with the former Chairman of Sippican, a subsidiary of defence contractor Lockheed Martin.

More details can be found here:

Posted by: KenM | Apr 3 2014 19:50 utc | 40

i will concede that in the middle east there are those of jewish origin but they are not the headliners nor the initiators, they are the donkeys, like wofowitz who would shame any decent jew - the plan however was drawn up by gringos - crackers if you like. israel britain & australia etc are pitiable vassals even if they are jackals. Posted by: remembererringgiap | Apr 3, 2014 3:27:59 PM | 35
"Wolfowitz would shame any decent Jew." There we have it, an old-fashioned (and completely hypocritical) Jewish defense. And the argument is absurd. Of course the headline imperialists have not been Jews. Hardly ever, in any modern empire, have the headliners been Jews. Disraeli, Lasalle, or the dreadful Milliband Brothers, are mere sports or flukes. The eternal Jewish genius is not a headliner but a power behind the throne, or presidential chair. You may, if you find it helpful, saying that I am "covering my prick with the Protocols." I don't think it has much remaining shock value.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 3 2014 19:56 utc | 41

i use it because i find your position completely idiotic, not worth analysis or reflection

but ot

what is happening to the american exit passage in russia from afghanistan

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Apr 3 2014 20:06 utc | 42


Theres a word for that, its called 'incompetence'. It doesnt necessarily mean its been taken over by spooks.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 3 2014 20:42 utc | 43

OT: Russian Federation Sitrep 3 April 2014

The Ukraine of six months ago no longer exists; it has been destroyed by the scheming of Brussels and Washington. If there is to be something on the map named “Ukraine” at the end of the year that in anyway resembles what was there six months ago, Moscow’s plan must be adopted. Autonomy for the regions so that one half can’t bully the other half; minority language rights; neutrality, neither NATO nor Russia. As to Crimea, it is part of Russia; that is done. If it offends you to call this the Moscow plan, you may call it the Kissinger plan. If these principles are not accepted, and fairly soon, then by the end of the year south and east Ukraine (known as Novorossiya – New Russia – for two centuries) will be independent or part of Russia while rump Ukraine will be in full economic collapse and even civil war (and eventual absorption by Poland?). The only thing left undetermined will be the border of Novorossiya and rump Ukraine. None of this was necessary; all of it was predictable.

I think that about sums it up. Meanwhile, USG still can't get its temper tantrum under control.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 21:35 utc | 44

no it can't it seems, still giving orders to one & all

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Apr 3 2014 21:40 utc | 45

re Counterpunch: That they publish a wide variety of views of varying quality is pretty much a given for many places inside and outside the web.

Imo, the critical question is, how does Counterpunch handle the biggies?: 9/11, JFK, the global private banking cartel, the power of the Israeli lobby in the US; and other pertinent but largely or entirely missing from MSM subjects like: Obama's history, Geo-engineering, what actually happened in Libya? On the latter I would second the motion of 17 above linking to the James Corbett interview with J. and J. Moriarty.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 3 2014 21:51 utc | 46

OT again: Since I'm a Russian American, I've been devoting almost all my attention to the Ukraine, so I hadn't realized how bad things have gotten in Venezuela. It appears that unless Madura brings in the army to get the "peaceful protestors" under control, we will have another case of regime change.

By the way, I've noticed that Nora has been much less active since Mr. Pragma and kalithea got banned. What a pity.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 22:09 utc | 47

the situation in venezuela very very delicate

the empire is going all out

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Apr 3 2014 22:20 utc | 48

I believe that the Israeli govt.,and in turn ,the US govt. prefer military rule in Turkey.Israel won't forget(anything-but we're not allowed to remember anything)Erdogan and that aid convoy,the way it besmirched Israel.The thugs hate being exposed.So maybe that's why Erdogan stopped the social media.Erdogan,and Turkey want that EU membership,so they are gonna be played.Bad move by Turkey,they should integrate better with their close neighbors,not a bunch of Eurotrash.(leaders)

Posted by: dahoit | Apr 3 2014 22:24 utc | 49

'Erdogan as the great hope of Muslim democracy '

egypt also had its MB ma Morsi trying to create a muslim democracy in egypt and eventally like Erdogan tried to use his office to wage war on syria. Egypts military, backed by most egyptioans, acted responsibly, said no, and had him removed. Will turkeys military show the same quality?

Posted by: brian | Apr 3 2014 22:33 utc | 50

@dahoit #49:

Here's Sybil Edmond's take on what Erdogan did wrong:

No matter how we look at it Erdogan’s days are numbered. One will not get away with having a major rift with the CIA [by getting on the wrong side of Imam Fethullah Gulen]. That’s one commandment. Violated. Thou shall not buy weapons from China or Russia regardless of quality or price advantage. Thou shall only feed the Empire’s own fat Military Industrial Complex players. That’s another major commandment. Violated. A puppet shall only be a member of clubs solely owned and operated by the Empire. Joining others’ clubs, even thinking of joining others’ clubs, shall come with severe retribution. This rule has been written with inerasable ink- Violated. Well, these should take care of the Empire’s three-strike rule. Erdogan should begin looking for a shelter; a refuge. Either it’s that, or the Turkish people taking the matters into their own hands-where they belong.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 22:41 utc | 51


Thanks, Demian. I take it as an honor to be attacked by hasbara but they're still a pain in the ass and b gives them free rein. So I read here but comment elsewhere.

Posted by: Nora | Apr 3 2014 22:56 utc | 52

Brian, that is bullshit. All of it. If you look deeper, the military was NOT backed by the majority of egyptians. And how could voters freely consent, or not even now? It's more than clear that Morsi was set up, the military lied to him - him thinking Sisi was ethical, honest. The judiciary, as well, is corrupt, and, having read the writing on the wall, Morsi tried to correct it but was perceived to be making a power grab when his intention was to keep on top of the malignant forces at play.

Posted by: talbot | Apr 3 2014 23:21 utc | 53

Hehe, Brendan Eich should move to Russia and found a startup there:

Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich quits amid anti-gay marriage controversy

Eich had built a strong following as co-founder of Mozilla, a savvy fighter for the Web, inventor of JavaScript, and leader of the Firefox and Firefox OS projects. His promotion to Mozilla chief executive officer from chief technology officer last week was a rare techie triumph over the usual business-school demographic.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3 2014 23:22 utc | 54


Now if tey could only get rid of this guy:

The NSA played a significant role in the origins of Extended Random. The authors of the 2008 paper on the protocol were Margaret Salter, technical director of the NSA's defensive Information Assurance Directorate, and an outside expert named Eric Rescorla.

Rescorla, who has advocated greater encryption of all Web traffic, works for Mozilla, maker of the Firefox web browser. He and Mozilla declined to comment. Salter did not respond to requests for comment.

Posted by: b4real | Apr 4 2014 0:02 utc | 55

@50 - brian - i disagree with your viewpoint on all that as well. the usa would rather continue on with it's support for a military dictatorship, then any form of democracy. in this case 1 step forward and 2 steps back. as for turkey, erdogan has support of large areas of turkey outside the main city of istanbul. as for the turkish army - they also seem to be in the backpocket of nato and it's bullshit agenda as well.

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2014 0:44 utc | 56

This article on Cuba was very recently on Information Clearinghouse. While there, be sure to avoid all the "Ivy-league educated Taliban Recruiters" (see @4)!

Interview with Ex-CIA Collaborator: “The CIA’s Plans in Venezuela Are Far Advanced”

Raúl Capote is a Cuban. But not just any Cuban. In his youth, he was caught up by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). They offered him an infinite amount of money to conspire in Cuba. But then something unexpected for the US happened. Capote, in reality, was working for Cuban national security. From then on, he served as a double agent. Learn his story, by way of an exclusive interview with the Chávez Vive magazine, which he gave in Havana:

And this by hero dissident and CIA whistleblower Phil Agee - a very basic (and old, from 2003) but nevertheless great piece on the CIA/USAID nexus:

Former CIA agent tells: How US infiltrates "civil society" to overthrow governments

Indeed, “regime change”, as overthrowing governments has come to be known, has been the continuing US goal in Cuba since the earliest days of the revolutionary government. Programs to achieve this goal have included propaganda to denigrate the revolution, diplomatic and commercial isolation, trade embargo, terrorism and military support to counter-revolutionaries, the Bay of Pigs invasion, assassination plots against Fidel Castro and other Cuban leaders, biological and chemical warfare, and, more recently, efforts to foment an internal political opposition masquerading as an independent civil society.

And while I'm here, a great talk by another hero of mine and also a CIA whistleblower turned peace activist - Robert "John" Stockwell. Great to put on for an extended listen.

THE SECRET WARS OF THE CIA: How 6 million People Were killed in CIA secret wars against third world

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 1:01 utc | 57

The thing to keep in mind is that the US power elite treats us (for the US citizens here) in the exact same way as they treat the Cubans. Co-optation and manipulation are the order of the day here as well.

We have long known about the sockpuppet army of the US DoD. The Snowden leaks (coming out at Omidyar/Greenwald's glacial pace) have shown us the very specific manipulative (read: repressive) tactics used by the GCHQ (and most certainly the NSA) on the web. The DoD program is meant explicitly for a foreign audience, but there is no such limitation on the GCHQ program. And in any case, is it possible that the countries of the so-called 5 Eyes - deign to unleash such tactics on their own citizens - allow their partners free reign to do so?

The above covers those tactics which are (were) clandestine, but there have been recently been even public government forays into shaping domestic US public opinion. The Broadcasting Board of Governors - a US government agency responsible for broadcasting the US line into "unfriendly" countries the world over - are now getting into the domestic news business. Just last year, a law restricting their propagandizing inside the United States was lifted. I say "business", but of course, they are not beholden to the "free market" they tout in other countries. They are funded entirely by the US congress to the tune of three quarters of a billion dollars per year.

Of course this doesn't get into the main culprit - the "private" and "free" corporate media who - like some kind of satire of the loyal Old South house negro - have used their privileged position and freedom to "speak truth to the master" to lay down a line of bullshit so impossibly loyal that it seems, to many outsiders, as pure farce.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 1:52 utc | 58

Constant linking to Edmonds and boilingfrogs shill site here in the comments. Ugh.

Posted by: gemini333 | Apr 4 2014 2:17 utc | 59

The Saker hits the nail on the head when it comes to today's Europe:

Europeans have lost any sense of self-worth or dignity. They have become what Malcolm X used to call "house Negroes". Listen to Malcolm X himself speak about this, listen carefully, and ask yourself this basic question: is there a single word spoken by X here, just one, which does not fully apply to modern Europeans? Just one?

Don't Europeans treat their AngloZionists masters *exactly* like the "house Negro" treated his masters? […]

Europe has become a continent whose leaders can openly vote in support of a vicious and openly neo-Nazi regime in Kiev without any backlash at all. The EU will send the Banderists in Kiev money which it denies to the Greeks, and these same Greeks then vote in support of the Banderists.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4 2014 3:59 utc | 60


Good point about the Egyptian color revolution. Morsi was a total stooge, promoting the Israeli war against Syria, and facilitating the recruiting terrorists to go there for Israel and America. The "Arab Spring" was the west's version of color revolution adapted for Muslim countries.

The Egyptian military who ousted Morsi are no angels, but at least they stopped the support for the terrorist bloodbath in Syria that Israel is engaged in. One can bet Egypt wont be sponsoring any more western terrorist campaigns, either.

It amazes me how supposed leftists support the Muslim Brotherhood, given it's long term support for rightwing fascism, being a front for western fascist corporate interests, and now their disgusting recruiting for Israel's covert wars.

Well, I probably shouldn't be surprised, considering how most western leftism has now been corrupted into another mouth piece for zionist fascism, imperialist war making and corporate exploitation.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4 2014 4:55 utc | 61


My instinct is to prefer a secular Arab autocracy, like that of Saddam Hussein or Assad, to a democratically elected Islamist government, like that of Morsi.

But I have a question for you: if the new Egyptian military government "won't be sponsoring any more western terrorist campaigns", why did USG support the coup? Are you saying it made a mistake in doing so?

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4 2014 5:13 utc | 62

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4, 2014 1:13:58 AM | 62

"why did USG support the coup?"

They probably didn't have much choice if they wanted to remain relevant in Egyptian politics. It was a compromise forced on the west. The difference between MB and the military is also probably small in the corporate corruption sphere, and neither will rock the boat with Israel. So on the surface there is not that large of a difference other than the support for Israeli covert war making.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4 2014 5:26 utc | 63

@63 scalawag - i think that is a pretty naive answer personally. the fact there has been silence on the overthrow of morsi, while it was cool in ukraine ought to tell those paying some attention something smells wrong with the transition to military rule in egypt. it is back to the same bullshit as before and the usa and israel are quite happy about that!

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2014 5:43 utc | 64

I don't know what the tweet says, but the image pretty much sums up what's come out of the US media recently (...or forever maybe):

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 6:03 utc | 65

Posted by: james | Apr 4, 2014 1:43:58 AM | 64

"i think that is a pretty naive answer personally"

From what I've seen posted by you on this blog, that means little.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4 2014 6:09 utc | 66

BTW, James

Take a look at this vote:

That was the recent vote on Crimea where the USA twisted as many arms as it could to get a condemnation of Russia. Egypt still abstained. Egypt has also recently begun talks with Russia about arms trade, something they have not done in decades. Morsi would have not done either of those things. The world is not black and white as the neocons and the western media would have people believe.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4 2014 7:00 utc | 67

This question of what really happened to precipitate the anti-Morsi coup is an enormously important one. Despite the evident dislike shown by some posters here towards Sibel Edmonds and Boiling Frogs Post, there is an essential preliminary understanding to be gained from her which would be hard to find elsewhere, that over the decades the CIA has sponsored at least two successive waves of Gladio-type underground subversive networks in eastern Europe and western Asia which are quite incompatible with one another, so that launching the second involves ditching the first, or conversely, reviving circuits from the first involves ditching the second. It would not be possible to merge the networks in their entireties, because the first network is built on WW2-era anti-communists (including fascists) and their families, whereas the second wave is built on Islamists and their families. Sometimes you can borrow elements from one network to aid the other, as when (reputedly) a few Jihadis turned up to help the rebels in Ukraine, simply out of shared anti-Russianism. But really these are completely different networks with mutually exclusive world-views, each of which a good CIA officer would prefer to keep cocooned separately.

Within the Islamist network management scheme, which Edmonds calls 'Gladio B', this CIA tendency to develop antithetical networks simultaneously underwent a further stage of its development. We ended up with what I might call 'Gladio B1' and 'Gladio B2', ie two antithetical networks within the Islamist network scheme, which itself was antithetical to the old Gladio A scheme which used secular right-wingers. Clearly, one dimension of this phase was the rivalry between Saudi and Qatar, which caused the sections of the CIA's Islamist networks which they managed, to become hostile to one another: that is, the Qataris backed the MB networks, while the Saudis spent some years developing separate Salafi networks, and the two came into collision in Syria, much to the CIA's embarrassment. That much we know for sure.

My own personal theory regarding Morsi is that it was Israel and not the US which precipitated the coup against him. As we all saw, Anne Patterson for one was conspicuously wrong-footed by it, and so was the whole State Dept. That in itself is pretty strong evidence that the coup was not orchestrated by the US. If the CIA had arranged it, they would certainly have told the State Dept, precisely to prevent the sort of extraordinarily damaging outcome vis-a-vis the US which actually ended up occurring. I think that, if indeed Israel precipitated the coup more or less against the US's will, and forced the US to swallow the resulting global humiliation, this constitutes a strong example for the thesis that Israel effectively rules the USA. As to why Israel did this, I believe it was because Morsi dared to cross an Israeli red line in the Sinai.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 4 2014 7:51 utc | 68

Poor Crimea: McDonald's is pulling out. (God willing, it will pull out of all of Russia.)

I'm not sure what to make of the same Guardian story saying that Russia has stopped providing heroine addicts with methadone, however. (I'm not up to date on what the prevailing medical opinion is on methadone programs, as opposed to getting addicts off opiates entirely.)

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4 2014 8:49 utc | 69

The world is not black and white as the neocons and the western media would have people believe.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4, 2014 3:00:23 AM | 67

True, but neither is it Jew or Gentile as some of you MOA squatters would have us believe.

Who are these people who inculcate rebellion across the globe? I think we know the answer, but let's just say, Obama's mother was one of them in her day....and George Bush Sr. was one of her bosses, or in the least, the boss of her boss's boss. Also, people tend to forget this, but Mohamed Morsi was employed by NASA. This shit goes so deep that the name Alice and a certain hole (haha) come to mind.

The situation in Egypt, at least in a general sense, reminds me of what played out in Iran during its revolution. Many don't know or realize this, but the revolution began, was the brainchild of, the far-Left Marxists in Iran, but they knew they couldn't pull it off, overthrowing the military dictatorship disguised as a Monarchy, without the aid of the Islamists as muscle. Just like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. I know, the MB in Egypt pretty much forced itself on the scene and usurped the movement to its own ends, but in effect, that's what the Islamists in Iran did and the Left stood by, weak and feckless in the face of the budding of another tyranny. When displacing a power, it's crucial to take into account the power vacuum that follows. Forces know of it, and position themselves to fill that vacuum they've helped create whilst the rest celebrate a victory that's not yet complete.

Here's an excellent article on the Iranian Revolution and the mistakes made by the Left. The authors are not optimistic. It is their contention that the Left seems incapable of learning from these mistakes but they offer this sage advice nonetheless.

Defending unconditional democratic freedoms, even of one's opponents, is for the left a central task for all times. The populist left placed a Chinese wall between the struggle for democracy and that against imperialism. Indeed one was subordinated to the other: fighting imperialism took priority. And anyway the 'anti-imperialist Imam' was doing this so well. The battle for freedoms in the streets, in the universities, in the factories - which was a battle against the Islamic rulers - was distracting, nay obstructing, the anti-imperialist struggle, so the argument went. We were to sacrifice everything to a bogus anti-imperialist struggle conducted at the top by the Islamist rulers of Iran.

But even those who did not subscribe to this thesis, in practice, downplayed the democratic struggle. So it was that when women marched in their thousands on that first post revolutionary International Women's Day (March 1979) against compulsory hejab (Islamic covering) for entering government office, the left turned its face away: after all these were 'perfumed' women from the more affluent suburbs. The left was again silent when a few month later thugs ransacked the offices of the daily paper Ayandegan. It was 'liberal' - nothing to do with us. Within a year progressive newspapers such as the Bakhtar-e Emruz were also shut. And finally the left underground press was annihilated. The Iranian press scene went into total darkness for 15 years.

The left saw political democracy as belonging to the bourgeoisie. At best the era of 'bourgeois revolutions' was a ladder to socialism. Personal freedoms, such as the freedom of expression, were 'liberal' demands, either to be ignored or tolerated - for the time being - but not high on the agenda. Indeed liberal was used as a pejorative term, a swear word. The 'anti-imperialist' mullahs were far preferable. It was thus that the left dug its own grave.

Democracy and political freedoms, including individual freedoms, is the air the left breathes. This air is as necessary while building socialism as when fighting for it 3. This debate is not confined to Iran. The European left and the left in the Middle East should take heed. Many so-called 'bourgeois' freedoms would not have been achieved, nor sustained, without the struggle of the working class. Democratic rights are also a product of the era of proletarian revolutions. As such they form the struts of the future socialist society, to be expanded upon and deepened, not discarded.

A most important element in these freedoms is the freedom to associate. Here too the record of the Iranian left was disastrous.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Apr 4 2014 10:24 utc | 70

@Rowan I can see that the two groups were not from the same circles, but I don't see at all how they were antithetical to one another. They seem to me, ideological twins in the sense that both are authoritarian, supremacist doctrines - believers in might-is-right principle and devotees of socially regressive regimes like the USA and Saudi Arabia.

In fact there has been much overlap, based on anti-Russian feeling, but then that has been the near solitary goal of all the USA's programs - for Gladio A it was the defeat of any drift towards Eurocommunism, for Gladio B to dig into the "soft-underbelly" of the Soviet Union through toppling all governments friendly to China and Russia (by definition those governments most strongly anti-Israel).

Of course the danger is that we will see more and more links between the Nazis and the Takfiris, already seeing the Tartars activated and jihadis in Kiev and had previously seen the Ukrainian fascists fighting in Chechnya.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 12:12 utc | 71

I guess my point is that the two are entirely compatible because they were built to be so, both for the same purpose. It isn't some accident that they share an anti-Russian outlook - it is the main reason for their being created (at least funded, brainwashed and trained into a substantial force, obviously the strains of thought existed before to be built upon) by the CIA.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 12:18 utc | 72

Nevertheless, Salafis and MBs will quite possibly end up attacking each other with guns and bombs just as often as either group does it to the Shi'ites. And yet, Salafis and MBs were not intended to waste their time and other people's money by fighting each other. So incompatibilities abound, albeit over issues too arcane for most of us to even grasp. If you were to train Jihadis and secular ultra-rightists together, and this in fact is the great nightmare that western media are too frightened of to even mention when they can help it, but if you do it, you will get some very strange graduates from your course, much surer of what they hate than why they hate it. This would not work as a basis for underground groups, because morale and esprit de corps would be zero.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 4 2014 13:10 utc | 73

Putin and Obama; brothers by another mother…or is it another father?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Apr 3, 2014 6:53:44 AM | 4

spoken like a NINI troll..the sort who way ISIS/FSA/USA is bad and Assad is equally bad

sorry but no Putin and Obama are not brother in any sense, except that mystical one that yokes good and evil in traditional twin lore

Posted by: brian | Apr 4 2014 14:04 utc | 74

guest77@58: Thanks for the " to many outsiders" link. Another voice, crying in the wilderness. Mr. Pilger is more optimistic than I. Well worth the investment in time to listen to.

Posted by: ben | Apr 4 2014 14:20 utc | 75

In addition, recent weeks have seen visits to Georgia of high ranking US military commanders who have provided assurances regarding troop mobilization and military and logistical support against Russia.
For years, it has been clear that expanding NATO to include Georgia is a fundamental part of the aggressive strategy pursued by the West as a means of encircling, and ultimately dominating, Russia. The Russia-Georgia war of 2008 – begun by Georgia’s aggression in South Ossetia and Abkhazia – was a strategic wake up call to anyone who still doubted NATO’s true intentions in the former Soviet republic. So, NATO looks to absorb a country which shares a border with Russia and has a history of aggressive military action against Russian interests. Sure seems to fit the definition of “provocative.”

Posted by: brian | Apr 4 2014 14:24 utc | 76

Divide and conque [sic] rears its ugly Zionist head again.

You know, I like this site, but there is far too much tolerance of anti-semitic language. Same, IMO, goes for the otherwise interesting Saker, with his "AngloZionist" label.

I consider myself anti-Zionist, and believe Israel/Palestine should be a secular state with multiple nationalities, the right of return for all Palestinians, with full compensation, etc..

Here's why it's anti-semitic: not because it is anti-Israel, but because it uses anti-Zionism, which is fully supportable -- the Zionist's crimes and discriminatory outrages upon the Palestinians are outrageous and must be opposed -- because it elevates Zionism to one of the main, if not the main, cause for the world's problems today.

The discussion was about the U.S. intelligence budget and activities. So dahoit attributes "divide and conquer" to Zionism. While divide and conquer is a technique used by the Israeli authorities, it is a technique with an ancient derivation, and is usually attributed to the actions of an empire. While irredentist, an aggressive regional power, propagating apartheid-like policies, Israel is not by any reasonable use of the term an empire.

That leads me to Sakar's use of Anglo-Zionism. While the Zionist state is a major partner of the U.S. and UK, it is not a greater partner than say, France or Germany or... Canada!. The latter could be said with greater specificity to be partners of US imperialism. They also have greater economic clout (particularly Germany).

The attention drawn to the Zionist state out of proportion to its contribution (indeed, it is subsidized by the imperialists) is what makes this anti-semitic, because such a stance aligns itself with the out-and-out anti-semitism of the fascists. The latter label the Zionists, and the Jews, with which they conflate the Zionists, as the primary danger in the world, pulling all the strings in a secret conspiracy (dreamt up by the Romanovs and the Ohkrana). It also means that the recent historical derivation of the rationale of the Zionist state -- the massive genocide of Jews in Europe -- is never mentioned, or denied. The Holocaust is the primary emotional engine for nationalist feelings among many Jews. Zionism was not the right answer to the holocaust, but without taking into account what happened, it means that Jews feel politically isolated and endangered once again.

The only substance to giving the Zionist state of Israel such prominence is, one, its nuclear capacity. But once again, this does not differentiate it from other powers, such as France, or even putative sometime ally India. And two, its collaboration with repressive agencies of a number of states. But in this, once again, they are not differentiated from other U.S. collaborators, including the French, the British, and the Germans. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Long ago, August Bebel derided those within the socialist movement who were obsessed out of all proportion by the activities of the Jews (and there certainly are or have been, for instance, powerful Jewish financiers, historically -- just not controlling the world or totally financial markets; yet ask yourself, how much does Israel control the world's stock and commodity exchanges... mainly not at all!). Bebel called such socialism, the "socialism of fools."

I know this kind of behavior won't probably change here, but I could not let such casual anti-semitism, even if not meant to be anti-semitism, pass by.

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Apr 4 2014 14:28 utc | 77

@77 James Petras's book The Power of the Israeli Lobby in the United States describes the situation well, imo. The Jews of the United States have a power and influence very disproportionate to their numbers, both over internal politics and in US foreign policy. Some of this influence is diabolical, as in the attacks on Iraq, Libya and Syria. This subject is long taboo in MSM, and references to it here indicates not 'hatred of the jews' but affection for free speech.

re: Sibel Edmonds: she has shone much light on Gladio B and related matters. Apart from her own writings, the Corbett Report has several hours of interviews with Edmonds re such.

War is now everything dirty except for armies from countries facing off against each other.

The extensive interviews with Fletcher Prouty – Len Osanic has collected many hours of these – are illuminating in many respects, including the nominal vs the actual role of the CIA. Prouty points out that the CIA was given the role of coordinating various US intelligence agencies, and was not given a legal mandate for operations or intelligence gathering.

He identifies Allen Dulles as the person most responsible for initiating the creation of a vast sadistic outlaw CIA.

Prouty maintains that Kennedy's oft repeated vow to break the CIA into a 1000 pieces had already been begun by Kennedy at the time of the coup: Kennedy by a Presidential Directive – 55 (?) if I recollect correctly – removed primacy in terms of intelligence briefing from DCI to the chairman of the JCS.

But it was not to be so. What subsequent geopolitical horror story has not involved the Outlaw CIA?

One of the basic enablers of the CIA and assorted other similar organizations is the mantra of 'free trade' and its related 'freedoms'. It's global open house, for the most part, for every devil.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 4 2014 15:20 utc | 78

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Apr 4, 2014 10:28:44 AM | 77
Yet another anti-anti-Semite parachutes in from the legions of light to correct our ways of darkness. Listen, Jewish politics since the inception of the concept 'Jew' (ie since the time of the Roman label 'Judaeus'), and Israelite politics previous to that, were obviously based on trade. It is not known who first discovered the fact that silver and gold traded between India and Europe trebled in exchange value with every trip, but it was evidently some Semitic people, either the Phoenicians or the Israelites. Then Jewish history recounts twenty centuries or so in which wealthy Jews apparently had a great deal to do with financing successive empires. This, as relatively sensible and courageous Jews like Disraeli realised, was something better flaunted than hidden. But for you, in your high-principled USAian complete ignorance, imagine that you can divorce questions of US imperialism from questions of Jewish power, and you are of course wrong.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 4 2014 16:07 utc | 79

@77 "Zionism was not the right answer to the holocaust, but without taking into account what happened, it means that Jews feel politically isolated and endangered once again."

Then the answer is simple: Jews, forswear your jewdihood and join the rest of humanity. Crop your sidelocks and toss your yarmulkes.

Posted by: ruralito | Apr 4 2014 16:36 utc | 80

Posted by: Demian | Apr 3, 2014 5:35:00 PM | 44

See this piece by the Ukrainian Borotba Party over at Global Research which pretty much echoes your sentiment of a neutral Ukraine but whether such a creature will be allowed to exist is, at least right now, improbable unfortunately.

The Role of Fascism and the Oligarchs in Ukraine

Posted by: William Bowles | Apr 4 2014 16:37 utc | 81

In ref to all this talk about anti-anti-semitism and the confusion around, Jew, Israeli, zionist, it's really quite simple. It's not about being Jewish. So my mother was an atheist, communist and a Jew, historically speaking. That is to say her parents were also atheist, communist Jews, historically speaking. As there's no such thing as the Jewish 'race', it leaves two other options open; either you practice Judaism, in which case that's your religious preference or, you consider yourself Jewish by 'culture', which is another can of worms.

Zionism on the other hand is directly linked to imperialist ideology, indeed it's the product of imperialist ideology. Thus Zionism has nothing to do with being Jewish anymore than Israel has anything to do with being Jewish. Thus the linkage is between Zionism and Israel, its imperialist expression. In fact, Zionism and Israel are the most anti-semitic expressions I can think of.

Israel is an imperialist, settler colony masquerading as an underdog in order to facilitate an imperialist agenda but it certainly has nothing to do with being 'Jewish'.

So all this free interchange that pundits here engage in between Jew, Israel and Zionism merely serves to confuse the issues.

Posted by: William Bowles | Apr 4 2014 16:54 utc | 82

No, William: the situation of any actually existing person who thinks of themselves as a Jew is, as it has been throughout history, determined by two quite different clusters of social forces which the Jew in question may perceive as antithetical or as concordant, and so may keep carefully separated or may combine, namely:

(1) The cultural in-group pressure by means of which family (in the first instance), rabbi (as functional mediator in inducing the individual into Jewish life), and Jewish community as a whole (being of course some particular Jewish community distinct from others, eg Ashkenazi, Diasporic, Francophone, and so on into subcultural minutiae), which induces the individual to think of themselves as 'Jewish' and to act in what seems to them to be a 'Jewish' way, thus securing their membership of the group;

(2) The political pressure from outside the Jewish group which forces the group into a positive or negative alignment vis-a-vis the rulers both local and distant, and especially those rulers who aspire to empire, because - and this is the critical point - Jews play and have always played a useful double role: first as imperial subjects like any others, and second as members of a diasporic ethnic network with branches in practically every inhabited country.

Jews are not free to ignore this complex reality. Their Jewish loyalties will, with the cooperation of their so-called 'leaders', be exploited by the empire every time it claims to pose as their protector. Posing as a Leftist actually makes no difference, because the empire has its own usefully modified version of Leftism harnessed in the form of the doctrine of R2P, and Jews are expected - yes, expected - to rally to the cause of global R2P for 'Jewish' reasons, and to rally others, with the usual rhetoric, which in some cases has become not only second but first nature.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 4 2014 18:47 utc | 83



For the last time, anti-zionism has NOTHING to do with antisemitism. Being against zionism is theoretically no different than being against another political ideology like Liberalism or Fascism or Communism or Environmentalism or any other political ideology you care to name.

A jew can easily be anti-zionist. There are some. And most zionists in the USA are devout Christians.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 4 2014 18:52 utc | 84


Genuine Anti-Semites like yourself do the anti-zionist movement a disservice.

Whats needed is for morally upright jews to denounce Israel as the apartheid state that it is.

Villifying all jews is ridiculous. Please keep your naked antisemitism out of MoA.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 4 2014 18:54 utc | 85

@82 I would like to applaud your sensible comment. Thank you oh so very much.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 4 2014 18:55 utc | 86

CounterPunch has a photoessay on the Ukraine.

The maliciousness and brutality of the Empire, the propaganda and lies that the mass media are spreading, are reaching top gear. They are increasingly determined, but also progressively primitive and desperate. It must be obvious even to a child that the Emperor is naked!

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4 2014 18:56 utc | 87

@67 scalawag. many of the african countries abstained. i don't think that vote tells us all that much frankly. what does it mean on the chart where it is blank, as it is in a number of countries. does that mean they just didn't vote?

@68 rowan berkeley. thanks. your last paragraph is very plausible. the recent geopolitical events of egypt is a complex issue and i don't profess to understand it, but i will be damned if the usa is going to get a green light for it's typical duplicity on display regarding morsi's removal from power.. thanks for your other posts as well.

@82 - ditto that. wish more people would make those important distinctions.

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2014 19:41 utc | 88

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 4, 2014 2:47:52 PM | 83

"Determined throughout history"? What kind of old bunkum is this? And what the hell does it mean, throughout history? Don't tell me it all started in the Old Testament?

And then you give us this:

"Jews are not free to ignore this complex reality. Their Jewish loyalties will, with the cooperation of their so-called 'leaders', be exploited by the empire every time it claims to pose as their protector. Posing as a Leftist actually makes no difference, because the empire has its own usefully modified version of Leftism harnessed in the form of the doctrine of R2P, and Jews are expected - yes, expected - to rally to the cause of global R2P for 'Jewish' reasons, and to rally others, with the usual rhetoric, which in some cases has become not only second but first nature."

I've never read so much bullshit in my life masquerading as political analysis. In theory, you're subscribing all these to me, to my alleged Jewish loyalties. I'm Jewish by your definition. Strikes me that is pretty much as anti-semitic as you can get, dealing as it does in stereotypes.

What a lot of bollocks and frankly I'm tired of hearing this crapola, it's been going on for years...

Posted by: William Bowles | Apr 4 2014 19:50 utc | 89

@William Bowles #89:

that is pretty much as anti-semitic as you can get, dealing as it does in stereotypes.

I suppose you think that Gilad Atzmon is antisemitic, too?

Posted by: Demian | Apr 4 2014 20:05 utc | 90

@85 "Villifying all jews is ridiculous. Please keep your naked antisemitism out of MoA."

Rubbish. The ghetto walls have fallen(with the exception of Shtetl Israel). Jews are free to go, work and marry where they please. Jewdihood confers no special privileges OR restrictions. That's not anti-Semitism, it's common sense.

The answer to the Jewish Question, is that there is no Jewish Question
-Ilya Ehrenburg

Posted by: ruralito | Apr 4 2014 20:09 utc | 91

"Somewhat astonishing is again the long term effort, the tenancy and the seemingly unlimited amount of money going into such subversive U.S. programs."

The American People and the people of the World DEMAND an accounting. While your at your desk mr Obama please provide us with an accurate estimate of persons killed in you "signature" summary execution by drone program

Posted by: Marc | Apr 4 2014 20:14 utc | 92

Posted by: james | Apr 4, 2014 3:41:24 PM | 88

"@67 scalawag. many of the african countries abstained. i don't think that vote tells us all that much frankly."

Those votes can tell one quite a bit. What are the most recent nations who were visited by the western sponsored "Arab Spring"? Egypt (Morsi regime), Tunisia and Libya. Of those 3, Tunisia and Libya voted yes. Egypt abstained. If Egyptian Sisi regime was an American product, logically, they should have voted yes. The western sponsored Morsi regime would have most likely voted yes, but the Sisi regime bucked the consensus. That says they are more independent and voted in their own interests before those of the USA, something one wouldn't likely see happen with a freshly coup'd regime.

"what does it mean on the chart where it is blank, as it is in a number of countries. does that mean they just didn't vote?"

They didn't vote on it, for whatever reasons.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 4 2014 20:56 utc | 93

Jeff Kaye says

"That leads me to Sakar's use of Anglo-Zionism. While the Zionist state is a major partner of the U.S. and UK, it is not a greater partner than say, France or Germany or... Canada!. The latter could be said with greater specificity to be partners of US imperialism. They also have greater economic clout (particularly Germany)."

"The attention drawn to the Zionist state out of proportion to its contribution (indeed, it is subsidized by the imperialists) is what makes this anti-semitic.....

American leadership ad nauseaum expresses its abiding, irreversible support to Israel but not to France or Germany. Take the matter up with it-better yet replace it, it will not reform.

Posted by: amspirnational | Apr 4 2014 22:46 utc | 95

@95 it is a good point. You will never hear a US official say something similar to the "Old Europe" comments regarding the regime in Tel Aviv.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 4 2014 23:35 utc | 96

@93 scalawag. thanks. i did note what you comment on prior to you pointing it out. what you appear to be thinking is that becuase the military dictatorship is now back in the saddle in egypt, we can expect them to continue on with the previous relationship they had with russia. is that what you think? as i understand it egypt has for a very long time received the next biggest subsidy after israel in terms of $. i don't know that that has stopped, or lessened and perhaps someone can correct me on this, as i am going on memory.. until such time as the usa no longer tries to buy off israels neighbours, while also busy making covert or overt war on them, i will conclude that the relationship the usa has with egypt hasn't changed much at all.. the real fear was the thought that morsi would have remained in power.. if as rowan berkeley suggests, israel was primarily responsible for that - we can also thank the us taxpayer for their largesse in allowing a few countries in that part of the world to remain at the financial trough and ideology that has come to define the usa..

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2014 23:51 utc | 97

@97 - re- subsidy - from the usa.

Posted by: james | Apr 5 2014 0:15 utc | 98


Good news for Russia! McDonalds is unfit for human consumption

Posted by: Jim T | Apr 5 2014 0:52 utc | 99

ot - speaking of buying the good will/support of others - " from rt - US to provide Tunisia with $500 mn in loan guarantees

The US has approved $500 million in loan guarantees to Tunisia as part of an aid package aimed at revitalizing the country’s economy. The loan guarantees are meant to make it easier for Tunisia to borrow money to achieve financial stability. US President Barack Obama announced the guarantees on Friday as he met with Tunisian interim Prime Minister Mehdi Jomaa. The North African nation needs to fill up to a $3 billion hole in this year’s budget, AP reported. The country was the birthplace of the Arab Spring revolutions which began in late 2010."

Posted by: james | Apr 5 2014 1:02 utc | 100

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