Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 08, 2014

How Does The NPR Distinguish "Protesters" From "Mobs"?

The U.S. National Public Radio on Ukraine:

December 9 2013: Ukrainian Police Threaten To Drive Protesters Out Of City Buildings

Police are also threatening to enforce a court order to drive protesters out of city buildings they've been occupying.

April 7 2014: Mob In Ukraine Seizes Provincial Building, Declares Independence

On Sunday, pro-Russian mobs also stormed buildings in Luhansk and Kharkiv, two other cities in the country's east that have large numbers of Russian speakers and strong pro-Moscow sentiment.

What is the NPR's stylebook definition of "protesters" when people occupy government buildings? And how does that differ from a "mob" doing just the same?

Posted by b on April 8, 2014 at 7:04 UTC | Permalink

next page »

interesting. npr seems to be taking a side here and i think it's a conscious.. you are protesters when you want your country to sign a eu deal (with nuland serving cake), but you're a mob when you are pro-russian.. sounds about right coming from npr..

Posted by: james | Apr 8 2014 7:13 utc | 1

people have the media they deserve

'mobs' vs 'protestors' is an eg of perception management....hoping the emotional conditioned public will respond like the pavlovian rats society tries to turn us into

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 7:15 utc | 2

here is NPRs facebook page....

people may like to tell NPR what they think

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 7:17 utc | 3

the way the kiev gang are spinning it -

Posted by: james | Apr 8 2014 7:17 utc | 4

US Ambassador Michael McFail tweets this article is bullshit. Must be amazing stuff!

Ukraine: A US geopolitical failure of historic proportions – John Robles, Voice of Russia,

The latest geopolitical adventure by the US in Ukraine is failing for the same reason they failed in Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Russia, Iran and elsewhere, namely because the isolated Washington elites living in the fantasy world they apparently live in, know absolutely nothing about the people in the countries they want to takeover.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 8 2014 7:26 utc | 5

How Does The NPR Distinguish "Protesters" From "Mobs"?

You really have to ask?

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 7:30 utc | 6

Do people still pay attention to NPR? They are kind of dull compared to Fox. No real difference in material.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 7:37 utc | 7 Anti-terrorist operation starts in Kharkov, city center blocked – Ukraine Interior Minister

NPR's spiritual butt pals resumed their attacks in Kharkov.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 7:54 utc | 8

Re: Mob

I think the correct term for "pro-Russia", anti-putsch, anti-junta, antimaidan, Russian Spring forces is loyalists.

(Varvara calls them patriots.)

Generally, when speaking of the collective actions of the people opposing the junta and the implicit NATO occupation one can speak about the people, citizens, or citizens united!

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 8 2014 8:17 utc | 9

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 3h
#Dnepropetrovsk police on the side of the people, wears St. George's ribbons, according to @NOVORUSSIA2014


Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 8:29 utc | 10

the virtue of employing terrorists.....Kievs thugs attacking protestors in east ukraine
Crimea&East ‏@IndependentKrym 48m
@NinaByzantina here's an HQ version,shockingly they even used a car with no lights to ram down tents/protesters

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 8:46 utc | 11

the virtue of employing terrorists.....Kievs thugs attacking protestors in east ukraine
Crimea&East @IndependentKrym 48m
@NinaByzantina here's an HQ version,shockingly they even used a car with no lights to ram down tents/protesters

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 8:48 utc | 12

back in 2007. Putin was popular then as now to the disgust of those who want a controllable leader of russia :
'Whether his new post is prime minister, president emeritus, chief executive of Russia Inc, or simply Kremlin boss in the manner of Ivan Grozny does not really signify. Upwards of 80% of Russians firmly expect Putin will continue as chief guide and arbiter of the nation's fate. More than 50% would make him president-for-life.
the problem russias 'managed democracy' has for the western states,,,,is well,,..they cant manage it! and so they are livid and will do all they can do reduce Putins public image

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 9:09 utc | 13

Putin would be well advised to follow the German appeal to abstain from any input to Ukrainian unrest. This would mean: unequivocally reject acceptance of SE-Ukraine in the RF and exclude military intervention in favor of separatists.

If Russian government is serious with its stance for federalization - and I think so - then I assume, it is professional enough to know, that federalization is not an actual option. Or at least I don't see the regional parties and figureheads preparing to integrate the conflict lines, having a stance for regional interest as much as for commitment to a future federation.

With the actual turmoils the switch to civil war has already happened because absent a viable federational option there is no alternative to civil war unless a real pathway to federalization is opended.
I'm rather optimistic, that this first phase of civil war will be capped and provocateurs from the west will be isolated, but that has to be done with provocateurs from the east either.
As far as I know this was aptly done in Odessa where the regional authorities apeased the activist by promises, they would be protected from violence and given opportunity to publicly bring forward their case. The pathway to federalization has to be opened by local people.

Posted by: TomGard | Apr 8 2014 9:54 utc | 14


Remember the Third Metric™.

Don't think. World Post will think for you.

Power and Wealth are not yours to have.

You don't want Power or Wealth.

You want Leisure. And lots of Stuff.

You just wanna have Fun!

You want repurposed gew-gaws and gimcracks.

You want a refracted yet somehow renewable power system.

And sure, you want to Do Your Share for The Party™.

You just realized you love Big Brother.

Now go back to sleep.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Apr 8 2014 10:16 utc | 15

NPR had a role in launching the Benghazi events. Just listen to the archives. But they have probably been edited.

Out of topic, slightly,
Welcome Ashton!!

It is the superiority complex of the Egyptians: they will show they can do better than both KSA and Syria

This one will get on track before UN and EU-crats can even agree on a date for Geneva3

Posted by: Mina | Apr 8 2014 10:24 utc | 16

Responding to a comment in the previous thread. (As the word "mob" is used, I guess this is on-topic!)

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 7, 2014 8:44:31 PM | 74

Re: We right now get to watch two competing powers operate in the same country using roughly similar tactics (I doubt Russia is craven enough to pull the "sniper" gambit) to achieve similar ends.

The Western script for the Maidan putsch – down to the last details of the sniper false-flag attacks – is spelled out in an OP/ED piece on Forbes by Paul Roderick Gregory, a "research fellow" at the Hoover Institution. This is evidently based on inside knowledge of the plot, only in this fantasy piece the actors have been swapped. Projecting one's own evil onto the enemy is the common theme in all Western sources.

Putin's Attack On East Ukraine Began Today: What This Means For Europe And The US

The Russian assault’s first covert phase aims for the utter and complete destabilization of key cities that lie near the eastern border. As I write, mobs, directed by Russian special ops forces, FSB operatives, and local thugs are directing rent-a-crowds in Lugansk, Donetsk, and Kharkiv to storm public buildings, rough-up unarmed security forces, and demand referendums to join Mother Russia. As a slight variation, Donetsk demonstrators demand a “free republic.” The propaganda machine is at work full force. Babushkas are brought before the cameras to plead that all they want is peace and to be together with their brothers and sisters in Russia. They are sincere, but they serve the interests of their masked puppet masters lurking in the background.

Russia’s economic destabilization program began weeks or even months ago. Russian businesses cancelled their contracts with companies in Donetsk and Kharkiv. Desperate employees are going without pay. Russian propaganda…

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 8 2014 10:38 utc | 17

NATO: Further Russia moves on Ukraine to have grave consequences

Can anyone tell nato that no one belives their lame accusations against Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2014 10:50 utc | 18

the kiev junta wll not allow anyone into ukraine who has Simferopol stamped in their passport at 2:35 Rutly media was refused entry for this reason

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 12:03 utc | 19

Jews flee Ukraine

obama will say no the kievrulers are "democratic"!

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2014 12:04 utc | 20


bizarro world journalism

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 12:04 utc | 21

@21 Exactly, it is absolutely impossible that the people writing such things do not feel the dissonance compared to what they wrote just a couple of weeks ago.

Talking of "Babushkas are brought before the cameras" when we had all just seen at NATOMaidan these old women waving Ukrainian flags?

The only question is this: Are these people just hypocritical propagandists, or are they complete morons who lack all self-awareness?

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 8 2014 13:37 utc | 22

Communist Party intends to open its political office in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv and support local residents to monitor violations of the rights and freedoms of Russian-speaking population in Ukraine. This was announced by the deputy chairman of the Party Central Committee Valery Rashkin.

April 8, 2014, 16:43
"We must understand that the people involved in the actions and rallies in these cities, against which the authorities are ready to apply repressive measures up to use the army, defending their right to freedom, to a decent life, to life itself. Today these people are between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand - and the aggressive-minded radicals in relation to the Russian-speaking population of the western regions, on the other hand - the forces that came to power after the armed seizure and who do not make anything right now to end the crisis and protect the Russian-speaking population of the south-eastern regions . In these circumstances, the Communist Party intends to open its political office in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv, and possibly in other cities "- quoted by RIA Novosti Rashkin.

Оригинал статьи:

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 13:37 utc | 23

did they not remember South Ossetia in that Putin does not bluff. Almost like they want to instigate Russian involvement.

Posted by: too many wtf | Apr 8 2014 14:00 utc | 24

For NPR the difference between a "mob" and "protesters" is the same as the difference between a "regime" and a "government". As in "the Venezuelan regime", the "Iranian regime" the "Assad regime", vs the "Israeli government", the "Saudi government". In other words: code words so their listeners know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

Posted by: Peon | Apr 8 2014 14:01 utc | 25

Euromaidan peacemongers in action: phsyical agrument (including ponytail) in today's ukrainian rada.

youtube link

yeah, you know how it is, there's always a bit of a painful transition from evil dictatorship to freedom and democracy.

Posted by: peter radiator | Apr 8 2014 14:03 utc | 26

Wtf is wrong with these people?

pro-eu-us right wing extremists attack politicians

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2014 14:06 utc | 27

thats right

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 14:09 utc | 28

Allan Edward Tierney ‏@LowMaintainLife 24m
This cd be significant: #Putin to hold "emergency" govmnt mtng "due to extreme sit. in #Ukraine"


Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 14:19 utc | 29

Rock Solid Politics ‏@BradCabana 4h
#Ukraine parliament extends prison terms for separatism up to 15 years … … #Ukraine #cdnpoli

how much for coup d'etats?

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 14:23 utc | 30

Peon @ 25: You just nailed it. Simple, to the point, and VERY true.

Posted by: ben | Apr 8 2014 14:27 utc | 31

Rock Solid Politics ‏@BradCabana 9m
BREAKING:LIVE CRASH OF UKRAINE CURRENCY … … #russianspring #kharkiv #ukraine #kiev #donetsk #euro #hryvna #sos #cdnpoli

Posted by: brian | Apr 8 2014 14:27 utc | 32

The only question is this: Are these people just hypocritical propagandists, or are they complete morons who lack all self-awareness?

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 8, 2014 9:37:09 AM | 22

The question might be enlarged:

Dishonesty and spin has an ancient lineage. It may predate humanity. There was the curious case of the chimpanzee who had been taught deaf sign language. An errant poop appeared on the rug, and one of the humans asked the chimp if the chimp was the guilty party. The chimp replied by identifying one of the humans as the guilty party. Now the chimp may have been telling the truth, or may have had a good sense of humour. But strategic fibbing to protect its social standing is a plausible explanation.

An acquaintance was in a University lecture hall with perhaps 200 people. They were asked if they would indulge in a dishonest act if no one would possibly know and it would be to their advantage. 199 indicated a willingness to do so. Who can say whether the oddball was sincere in explaining that for themselves, having to live with oneself, subsequently, would be a powerful deterrent to doing so?

In any case, the spinners in the media are getting a paycheck for being willing tools. That is a simple explanation for specific cases.

In more general terms, a culture that values dishonesty over honesty is valuing the unreal over the real. This is the hallmark pf insanity: being out of touch with reality.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 8 2014 14:31 utc | 33


Overthrow Oblast government: 15 years prison.

Overthrow federal government: You get government position!

Sort of like the "Kill one person youre a murderer, kill a thousand youre a hero" rule, only stupider.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 8 2014 14:36 utc | 34

@33 But-but-but, arnt the journalists just using Steve Jobs' "Reality Distortion Field"?! It worked for him!


Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 8 2014 14:39 utc | 35


Very good article by a dissident from America's Puerto Rico colony, a dissident who has paid for his stance by being "exiled-by-passport-revocation" by the Bush administration. Much like Snowden was.

Living in Moscow in March 2007 John Robles applied to have his US passport renewed at the US Embassy. His passport was revoked however and the embassy refused to issue him with a new one. An accusation was made that Robles owed child support in Yolo County California. Robles disputed this as he had full custody of his 2 children and had raised them on his own. He claimed neither he nor his children had been in the US since 1995. He had been issued a new passport previously in 1998 after it had been stolen. It was after his passport was revoked that he was granted political asylum in Russia. Robles had been running a political website critical of the actions of President George W. Bush and hosted in Russia since July 2003.

From the article, words very true from someone who knows the situation that all USAians face:

Yes you read that right, I said the Untied States of America is failing in Ukraine. The coup is not sticking and the events will soon take an unexpected turn that should once and for all convince the American populace that they should finally put their neocon geopolitical global "chess players" in padded cells before they kill any more of the world's citizens and drag further generations of American taxpayers into the poor house.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 8 2014 14:43 utc | 36

McCain update. He wants Obama to supply Kiev folks with 'modest' military equipment. Whatever that means.

Posted by: dh | Apr 8 2014 14:56 utc | 37

The Kerry-bot has been given new talking points.

"14:56 GMT:

US Secretary of State John Kerry squarely blamed Russian agents on Tuesday for separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to lay the groundwork for military action like in Crimea.

"It is clear that Russian special forces and agents have been the catalyst behind the chaos of the last 24 hours," Kerry told lawmakers, adding this "could potentially be a contrived pretext for military intervention just as we saw in Crimea."

Sounds like the fascists are getting worried.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 15:16 utc | 38


Modest military equipment: Everything short of nuclear weapons.

Cant have the Gas Princess nuking east Ukraine.

USA is so merciful!

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 8 2014 15:17 utc | 39

Swoboda in Ukrainian parliament attacking a speaker with their fists, parliamentarian brawl
Same video as
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8, 2014 10:06:17 AM | 27 different cut, German explanation.
Chorus of "fascists" in the end. The person who gets attacked by Swoboda tries to tell them to listen to the opinion of people in the East.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 8 2014 15:29 utc | 40

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 8, 2014 4:17:19 AM | 9

"I think the correct term for "pro-Russia", anti-putsch, anti-junta, antimaidan, Russian Spring forces is loyalists."

I've noticed that they consistently refer to themselves and each other as antimaidan or antimaydana (антимайдана) or as partisans or patriots.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 15:36 utc | 41

Foreign mercs among forces sent by Kiev junta to quell dissent in Kharkov. В форме бойцов "Ягуара" в Харькове работают иностранные наемники

"In the form of fighters "Jaguar" in Kharkov employing foreign mercenaries"

"In Kharkov, in the central area comes more and more people. Near the building of regional administration appeared tent. Near armed men, some of them in the morning did not say a word and turn away every time someone accesses them.

One of Kharkiv police working near the building of RSA, told the LifeNews, in the form of special forces soldiers "Jaguar", which is usually used to suppress domestic protests, in particular prison riots, foreigners work.

- They do not speak in Russian and do not understand Ukrainian, - says the source in the form of LifeNews. - All the time silent and even avoid contact with us. They are here called "deaf jaguars."

Morning of April 8 at the direction of the new Ukrainian authorities conducted a special operation to suppress protests in Kharkov. Armed men broke into the building and replaced the Kharkiv Regional State Administration. More than 70 people were taken away in an unknown direction.

Gave orders to sweep personally appointed by parliament illegitimate Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. He later reported that the operation was "smooth" and without being affected. However, his statement immediately denied Antimaydana activists who spoke about their losses. According to them, law enforcement officers acted very hard and used firearms and grenades. Injured protesters are afraid to go to hospitals because of possible reprisals.

In February, Ukrainian oligarchs Igor Kolomoisky and Sergei Taruta offered Kiev draw for solving internal problems of Ukraine private military company Graystone Limited.

At one time the company "famous" as a division of Blackwater. It is an American corporation mercenaries notorious cruelty of their employees to work in Iraq and Libya."

The Kiev junta is trying to conceal they use mercs and nazis to attack protestors in the east.

"11:18 GMT: Sergey Pashinsky, the interim head of Ukraine’s presidential administration, told journalists in Kiev that no nationalist militias or foreign private security companies have been deployed to the country’s eastern cities. “I do confirm with full responsibility that neither the [ultranationalist] Right Sector nor American security contractors are operating in Kharkov, Donetsk or Lugansk,” Pashinsky said."

The use of foreign mercs and nazis by the Junta, really by American handlers of the junta, since it will be Americans commanding the foreign mercs, is why the Kerry-bot is now accusing Russia of instigating "chaos" in the east. These scum are always quick accuse others of their crimes, often right before they commit them, or news of them is known to be about to surface.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 15:51 utc | 42

From the frontpage NYT story today actually a couple decent points:

The seizure of government buildings by pro-Russian protesters has provided a particular public relations challenge for the new Ukrainian government because demonstrators in Kiev who helped oust Mr. Yanukovychhad long occupied government buildings in the capital, including City Hall.


The turmoil in eastern Ukraine also makes it extremely difficult for the provisional government in Kiev to begin putting in place austerity measures and financial overhauls required by the International Monetary Fund as a condition for an $18 billion loan package that the country desperately needs to avert a default on its debt.

Cui bono. The putschists are not stable enough to withstand the implementation of the IMF mandates. Right Sector and other Maidanistas will irrevocably split from the rump government once they go into effect. So conflict in the Donets Basin benefits the putschists and their Western benefactors in the near term by delaying structural adjustment.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Apr 8 2014 15:59 utc | 43 Депутат призвала расстреливать протестующих на юго-востоке Украины

So who is the chick and what is she saying?

"The Verkhovna Rada call to shoot protesters in the eastern regions of Ukraine. This opinion was expressed by the deputy of the nationalist party "Svoboda" Irina fArion, according to which today's sweep administration in Kharkov was stiff enough."

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 16:23 utc | 44

It may be "National Public Radio," but some underwriters give more than others, of course, and not for nothing.

Posted by: Jon Lester | Apr 8 2014 16:41 utc | 45

The Party of Regions has expelled 3 of the 4 presidential candidates from the east. Dobkin is the only one remaining. He has said Crimea should be returned to the Ukraine, but is also in custody of the Kiev junta. A fact which may influence what he says because now the bandera nazis are arresting anybody and everybody with their hypocritical anti separatist laws. Dobkin doesn't appear to have much eastern support now.

Yesterday, one of the expelled flipped off nazi Oleg Lyashko in the Verkhovna Rada while the latter was bloviating about MPs being agents of Moscow and not having the right to be in parliament. A video of it. 8.04.2014 Царёв показывает Fuck You Ляшко

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 16:41 utc | 46

The flipper was Oleg Tsarev.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 16:43 utc | 47

It's an unfair comparison. The Russian is outnumbered.

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 17:19 utc | 48

Beware the Russian speaking bogeyman, coming to a town near you.

Russia's South Stream pipeline in deep freeze as EU tightens sanctions noose

Key details emerged in a leaked briefing by the European Commission’s chief, Jose Manuel Barroso, to Bulgarian politicians, warning the country not to stand in the way of the EU’s tough new line on the project..
Mr Barroso said there are “people in Bulgaria who are agents of Russia

Ukraine Accuses Russia as Protests Seize Offices in East

The aim is to divide Ukraine and turn part into “a territory of slavery under a Russian dictatorship,” Yatsenyuk said in televised remarks from Kiev. “It’s crystal clear that an anti-Ukrainian plan” is under way.. Ukraine says Russia has sent agents to foment unrest and justify carving off more of the nation.

What we know about the Kiev snipers

Valentyn Nalyvaychenko, the new head of Ukraine's security service (SBU), said.. "Agents of [Russia's Federal Security Service] the FSB took part in both the planning and execution of the so-called anti-terrorist operation," he told reporters. Unidentified Russians were present at SBU headquarters during the protests in Kiev this winter, he said.

Kerry: 'Russian agents' behind unrest in Ukraine

US Secretary of State John Kerry squarely blamed Russian agents on Tuesday for separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to lay the groundwork for military action like in Crimea.

Lurking in the shadows, hiding under your bed, undermining the democratic aspirations of the Ukrainian people.

Just wait until the IMF 'rescue' package bites. I suppose "Russian agents" will also be the ones demanding the return of their jobs, pensions and savings..

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Apr 8 2014 17:20 utc | 49

Posted by: peter radiator | Apr 8, 2014 10:03:07 AM | 26

"Euromaidan peacemongers in action: phsyical agrument (including ponytail) in today's ukrainian rada."

You know who the owner of the ponytail is, dontcha? Humiliation: Ukrainian MP & thugs beat state TV Channel head into resigning (VIDEO)

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 17:36 utc | 50


My god, theres as much fear about Russian Agents today as there was in the 1950s.

The Cold War started back up without anyone telling us, apparently. Maybe it never ended?

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 8 2014 17:36 utc | 51

@49 "Just wait until the IMF 'rescue' package bites. I suppose "Russian agents" will also be the ones demanding the return of their jobs, pensions and savings."

Good point. I bet those Russian agents at Templeton Funds will want their $6 billion back too.

Posted by: dh | Apr 8 2014 17:45 utc | 52

Pat Bateman

Good job!
This shows the crazy anti-russian views of the west.
Whats wrong with these people!?

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2014 18:04 utc | 53

More McCain

The U.S. should consider forcing major American companies such as General Electric (GE) and Exxon Mobil to suspend business in or pull out of Russia if President Vladimir Putin attempts to take more territory from Ukraine or other neighboring nations, said Senator John McCain of Arizona.

“I know that that’s a tough call and I know that we don’t want to hurt our own economy, but what are the consequences of Vladimir Putin just being able to act?” McCain, a Republican from Arizona who advocates military assistance for Ukraine, said in an interview for Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt” airing this weekend.


In addition to GE and Exxon-Mobil (XOM) Corp., the companies with the largest business interest in Russia include Ford Motor Co. (F), General Motors Co. (GM), Citigroup Inc. (C), JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) and PepsiCo Inc. (PEP)

Templeton is sure Ukraine will make it.

Russia and Europe would come to an agreement on how to handle that situation, Mobius said with optimism.

Russian agents, everywhere.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 8 2014 18:17 utc | 54

Someone should republish Christopher Simpson's THE SCIENCE OF COERCION which details how the Mighty Wurlitzer was constructed between 1945 and 1960.

Also, someone should note how many cultural leaders and information sources and signifiers are provided by our intelligence services. Before Gloria Steinem was America's feminist icon she worked running a propaganda shop for the CIA at International Youth Festivals. And guess who worked in her shop? Cokie Roberts and her husband.

When Cokie comes on NPR and stakes out the limits of thought on various subjects, she serves as the blinders that the CIA et al want you to wear.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Apr 8 2014 18:34 utc | 55

Speaking of media/intelligence agency nonsense:

Awwh, how f*cking adorable. Edward "Psyop" Snowden's latest "revelation" is that the NSA spied on HRW and Amnesty!! Will the horror never cease?

Anyone still think Snowden is a hero and NOT an intelligence stooge? Really?!

Give us all a FB, Snowden and shut your f*cking CIA piehole. Or should we write our local "responsible" journalists so that they can pass the message on to you?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 18:58 utc | 56

@Bob In Portland #55:

Someone should republish Christopher Simpson's THE SCIENCE OF COERCION…

Didn't know about that. Anyway, the Russians are on it.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 8 2014 19:07 utc | 57

@Bob In Portland #55:

Someone should republish Christopher Simpson's THE SCIENCE OF COERCION…

Didn't know about that. It is available for free on the Web.

I tried to give a link to it, but my comment wouldn't post. b's software must filter out comments that contain links to "copyright infringing" Web sites.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 8 2014 19:13 utc | 58

Sometimes it's worth going back to watch some old news - here is a Democracy Now from 2004.

The AP reported Bush Administration then gave $65 million to "underwrite exit polls" and for "train groups opposed to the Russian backed candidate".

This is the latest in an old war...

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 8 2014 19:24 utc | 59

BTW, that would be the same HRW that helped provide the "evidence" for the Syrian government's involvement in the "gas attack" as detailed by Robert Parry here.

Oh, don't worry fake left enthusiasts, Parry is still - like Chomsky - a little gate-keeping propagandist bitch. I really like the sentence in the article a la Hersh which says that intelligence agencies were worried about a rush to judgement. That CIA et al., always so concerned about rushing into things, huh? Check's in the mail, Bobby!

In addition, in the same article Parry once again recycles/hews to the old narrative that it was the Iraq War and its lead-up during which America's "reality-crafting" began in earnest and not - don't say it, JSorrentine! - during and immediately following the false flag event of 9/11 like any half-awake child can see. Here's my favorite line from propagandist bitch Parry in the current article:

Despite the glaring weaknesses of the U.S. government’s case, these blogosphere defenders of the old conventional wisdom are dissecting Hersh’s exposé looking for tiny points to criticize rather than joining in a demand that the Obama administration finally lay whatever evidence it thinks it has on the table.

Nearly 4,500 U.S. soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died because of false and fabricated intelligence disseminated about Iraqi WMD in 2002-03. Yet, almost no one in Official Washington was held accountable.

That's right, Bobby, funnel everyone's attention back to the official narrative time-frame now that you've re-burnished your image among the fake lefties vis a vis Ukraine, huh? How clever.

If you'd like to read why Parry should be known far and wide as a gate-keeping whore, please revisit his column on 9/11 "truthers" from 2011. Motherf*cker didn't need to work a day in his life after he penned that one, I bet.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 19:27 utc | 60



"Neocon Propaganda Radio"

Posted by: Cal | Apr 8 2014 20:20 utc | 61

An analysis of Maidan footage shows at least one clear-cut instance where unarmed protesters were being filmed being shot down by a sniper from behind & above the skirmish line, the same angle used for filming. A missing bullet hits a tree from right rear flank; a man takes cover behind the tree, exposing himself to the front. Ghouls who shoot people for news footage to start a war deserve to be...

Youtube video:
original page:

Posted by: Imagine | Apr 8 2014 20:23 utc | 62

Posted by: Cal | Apr 8, 2014 4:20:21 PM | 60

LOL and Thanks:)

Posted by: jo6pac | Apr 8 2014 20:25 utc | 63

A nifty way to discredit Snowden would be to have US intelligence agency trolls hit internet forums, claiming he is obviously a CIA stooge, sort of an inverted disinformation campaign.

Posted by: Gareth | Apr 8 2014 20:36 utc | 64

Or maybe Snowden could stop trying to sell everybody on the f*cking preposterous idea that HRW and Amnesty are NOT intelligence outfits themselves/deserving of our sympathy and that therefore claims that the NSA are spying on them are retarded and only to be entertained by troglodytes. Oh wait, I get it, the CIA - i.e., HRW, Amnesty, etc - is the GOOD US intel agency unlike the - boo hiss - bad NSA, right? Brother.

So, let's see, boy genius Edward Snowden believes that there exist "responsible" journalists in the West that people should put their trust in esp. w/ their secrets/leaks AND he believes - or is at least telling us - that HRW and Amnesty are legitimate human-rights organizations even after all of their documented involvement in war crimes over the decades including but not limited to Syria, Libya etc. Got it.

Would someone FINALLY ask this Snowden imposter where he stands on 9/11 and the apartheid genocidal state of Israel so we could be done with this f*cking nonsense already?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 20:51 utc | 65

Judging by the latest report by the Saker, the Kiev regime will be able to put down the revolt in southeast Ukrainian cities. The most noteworthy point is that the Russian-speaking protestors lack anything like the organization that the Maidan putchists had.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 8 2014 21:09 utc | 66


What are you talking about? Chill. Why punch snowden all of a sudden?

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2014 21:10 utc | 67

Here is the text of my message to NPR:

"So, in December NPR characterized a mass of people forcefully taking over and occupying government buildings in Kiev as "protesters".

But now, a mass of people forcefully taking over and occupying government buildings in Donetsk is a "mob".

The "mob" in Donetsk may just have been energized by having one of the first actions of the Kiev putsch be to vote to strike the Russian language as an officially-recognized state language. This despite this being the mother tongue of most of Eastern Ukraine, and unsurprisingly so as that region is largely comprised of provinces originally part of Russia. And then the putsch has resisted the idea that a strong federalism might serve to reassure these areas enough that they would feel safe continuing as part of Ukraine. So when the people of current Eastern Ukraine are confronted with an intransigent coup regime, dominated by violent ethnic extremists and neo-nazis, abominating their language and culture, and then further refusing to make any effort to accommodate their apprehensions, it comes as no surprise that they will "protest", even vigorously so.

Your craven submission to the propaganda line of the Washington Consensus is clearly telegraphed in your choice of words to characterize the actions of the fearful citizens of current Eastern Ukraine versus those which you chose to apply to the partisans of the putsch in Kiev. You have thereby abandoned any pretense to journalistic objectivity.

NPR, because of this transparent "vaulting of the propaganda", a phrase from the lips of George W. Bush, you are now officially and finally dead to me."

I think that that about says it.

Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | Apr 8 2014 21:18 utc | 68

Re: Snowden: Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8, 2014 4:51:24 PM | 64

I agree that the Snowden caper smells to high heaven, but I have encountered people both bright and prominent in politics, academia and spookdom who were also amazingly obtuse, seriously brainwashed, and quite naive when it comes to things like 9/11 and Amnesty. On the other hand, most any blue collar dude who has engaged the real world of say metals and kerosene and paper passports can understand in a blink of an eye the impossibility of the official narrative re 9/11 - when the obvious is pointed out.

So what extent Snowden is naive, a dupe or an accomplished operator is not perfectly clear to me.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 8 2014 21:24 utc | 69

Why punch Snowden? Hmmm, maybe because even after the murderous war criminal campaigns in Libya and Syria which groups such as HRW and Amnesty cheered on from the beginning, normally conscientious people are STILL falling for the same sort of propagandistic nonsense - e.g. Ukraine, Crimea - pushed by said HR groups all the while thinking that they have a champion in Mr. Snowden who just today reiterated his not wanting to harm any US intelligence operations:

"Snowden made clear he did believe in legitimate intelligence operations. "I would like to clarify I have no intention to harm the US government or strain [its] bilateral ties," he asserted, adding that he wanted to improve government, not bring it down."

"I am proud of the fact that despite the dramatic protestations of intelligence chiefs, no evidence has been shown by any government that the revelations of the last year have caused any specific harm,” he added. “My motivation is to improve government, not to bring it down.”

Fuck Edward Snowden, the CIA stooge.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 21:36 utc | 70

Sorrentine's idiotic attacks on Snowden's credibility are precisely what the NSA and its defenders hope to see. They must be rubbing their hands and tuning up another troll to widen the split he is so intent on making between Snowden, his associates and that part of the internet community which distrusts the empire and exposes its lies.

Their fear is that the public will slowly awake to the fact that this whistleblower- now in exile and threatened by a state which ruthlessly punishes people who act as he did- has done a great service by revealing the extent and depth of the surveillance being practised by the US government and its satellites.

By denouncing Snowden on the incredibly sectarian grounds that he has mot-so far as J Sorrentine is aware- denounced the state of Israel or publicly associated himself with those who regard the 9/11 attacks as a false flag operation, and, by suggesting that far from being a truth teller, Snowden is in fact likely to be a US agent employed to confuse and misinform the public Sorrentine objectively serves the very forces which he, implausibly, suggests employ Snowden.

The bottom line is that the NSA revelations have been demonstrated to be both true and embarrassing to the government and that is enough. And a damned sight more than Mr Sorrentine has ever done.

Next up, no doubt, is Seymour Hersh-the Sorrentine hit list grows longer and almost everyone on it is a declared opponent of the state.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 8 2014 21:43 utc | 71

Jsorrentine, I think Snowden is just a naive stupid knownothing.

MOST people, which includes Snowden, thinks HRW and such are perfectly honest NGOs.

Its not like HRW being US government stooge organization is public knowledge.

Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 8 2014 21:44 utc | 72

@70 - bevin. thanks. i wish you would post more often. my thought on snowden is he is a hero.. this is how i see bradley, or chelsea manning as well, and i view julian assange the same way.. people who can't see what they have done, or are only intent on taking away from what they have done - i can't understand that.

Posted by: james | Apr 8 2014 21:56 utc | 73

What, did a Twitter alert from @IWUVSNOWDENQTPIE wake you from your reveries at the Fanboy Forum? I understand, I've gotten lost in the photo gallery, too! Did you see the one where's he wearing that blue sweater? (tee-hee) #blush #drool

Sorrentine objectively serves the very forces which he, implausibly, suggests employ Snowden.

Wait a like calling bullshit on obvious US intel stooges like Snowden is actually HELPING US intel agencies because in trying to call attention to the truth of the matter I am further confusing the populace and thus it's probably better that we should just have them confused. Holy f*ck.

Are you feeling ok? I ask because that has got to the be one of the stupidest f*cking things I've ever read.

Let's play along with all of the nonsensical narratives that American intelligence agencies craft because - murder/maiming/mayhem...all that trifling shit aside - it just addles the weak-minded and clouds their manufactured/manipulated senses of right and wrong. Won't SOMEONE think about the f*ckheads?!!!

And a damned sight more than Mr Sorrentine has ever done.

Hey, I get the feeling - from the nature of your response - that I actually AM DOING a lot!!You yourself claim that my even HINTING that Snowden is a fraud is damaging the very fabric by which thousands of pea-brained fake progressives understand reality. Is that not something? Obviously, it's not donning a "V for Vendetta" mask and marching around with a Snowden Fathead but it's something as you yourself seem awful piqued.

By denouncing Snowden on the incredibly sectarian grounds that he has mot-so far as J Sorrentine is aware- denounced the state of Israel or publicly associated himself with those who regard the 9/11 attacks as a false flag operation

Look, there are two main issues which are litmus tests in America/West that no sensible person can deny exist and which no "hero" can hope to avoid and those are: 1) 9/11 and 2) Israel. If a person wants to be known as credible and wants to prove that they are willing to really step "out of line" and tell the truth vis a vis TPTB, all they have to do is profess where they stand on those two issues which are laden with propagandistic narratives miles deep. Sounds easy enough, huh? Too bad NO ONE seems to ever do just that so I do think my request is not very outlandish. Edward has repeateldly told us that he won't harm the US government and has NO DESIRE to, so, why do I get the feeling that he's NOT going to take Israel to task OR tell us that the 9/11 fairy tale is just that?

Next up, no doubt, is Seymour Hersh

I hate to break it to you but others here at MOA f*cking destroyed Hersh three threads ago and I didn't play much of a role although I enjoyed it, y'know, as he just happened to write the CIA and other war criminals completely out of the gas-attack story. If you don't think that it will confuse you, you might want to check out what some other MOA posters wrote there. Good stuff.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 22:27 utc | 74

The "Stylebook Definition" courtesy by: - UCMC -
That's: Ukrainian Crisis Media Center, an international
PR-netting against russian propaganda.
Financed by: George Soros, ukrainian "transitional" gov
and a ukraine subsidiary of Weber Shandwick, again a sub
of IPG, that's it.
One german public-law-broadcaster already admitted using
their (should I say)"sources".
Like McCann's credo: "Truth Well Told"

Posted by: slirs | Apr 8 2014 22:27 utc | 75

why shouldn't NSA spy on HRW and Amnesty? If the CIA is running them, then spying on them would be of interest to NSA from the point of view of inter-agency rivalry. From the same point of view, all of these revelations of NSA crazyness, serve CIA. The Common Dreams article is nothing but a summary report of a video address, which itself is here, and it still is there, I just checked:

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 8 2014 22:33 utc | 76


This was meant to say:

Let's play along with all of the nonsensical narratives that American intelligence agencies craft because - murder/maiming/mayhem...all that trifling shit aside - if we don't it'll just addle the weak-minded and cloud their manufactured/manipulated senses of right and wrong. Won't SOMEONE think about the f*ckheads?!!!

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 22:33 utc | 77


That's the storyline I was alluding to in the Good CIA/bad NSA comment but in calling attention to HRW and Amnesty Snowden also threw around the words "innocent civilian" organizations and even included the UN's Children Fund in the mix so I don't think that's what he was going for unless it really is a three-way turf fight between the NSA, CIA and the UNICEF. Who knows?

Both HRW and Amnesty reps were also there in the Russian airport so that Snowden could give them his doozy of a statement that began "Hello. My name is Ed Snowden. A little over one month ago, I had family, a home in paradise, and I lived in great comfort. I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates" and which started the narrative rolling.

(sniff)Read the whole thing again. (sniff) It's so beautiful to this very day.

HRW = UN Children's Fund = Amnesty

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 8 2014 22:46 utc | 78

Something the Western media is conveniently ignoring:

Russian Language Enjoying a Boost in Post-Soviet States

Gallup Poll results underscore the prevalence of national language use over Russian; when asked in what language they preferred to conduct the Gallup interview, only respondents in the Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Belarus overwhelmingly chose Russian. Ukraine and Kazakhstan retain larger Russian populations. In Belarus, where the interethnic differences between the Belarusians and Russians are minimal, Russian is one of the official languages.

83% of Ukrainian respondents chose to take the survey in Russian. And yet the fascist regime is refusing to give Russian equal status with Ukrainian. which only 17% of respondents chose to take the survey in. (The poll was done in 2008.)

When I saw Pat Buchanan, I think, write that Russian is more popular in the Ukraine than Ukrainian, I was dubious, but it turns out he was right.

Posted by: Demian | Apr 8 2014 22:54 utc | 79

Re: Snowden:

I think a clear distinction should be made between the process by which Snowden happened and who was attempting to play whom, on the one hand, and the motivations of Snowden on the second, and third, well let's throw in a foot, the effect of Snowden as 'very prominent whistleblower'.

In so far as the first goes, Webster Tarpley and especially Jon Rapaport have written about their perception of sleight of hands at work. Sibel Edmonds has questioned Grunwald's role, to much criticism.

Whatever was actually intended, the effect of Snowden has been imo extremely positive: apart from giving to a broad public info on the extent of the surveillance state, just stoking cultural support for whistle blowing and providing a role model for such is a very serious threat to the system based on very large numbers of loyal stooges. In an age when not just government specialists but the public itself is acquiring more and more technological capacity both to whistleblow and to efficiently receive and send on the info, the capacity of states to contain secrets is slipping away.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 8 2014 22:56 utc | 80

@79 - robert snefjella. - i agree. the fact that snowden might be, or is oblivious to the role that hrw and amnesty international play gets blown out of proportion and becomes the most important talking point, instead of acknowledging the good he has done in revealing what we only suspected beforehand.. being bitter and hostile about everything seems to appeal to certain types more then anything else.

Posted by: james | Apr 8 2014 23:15 utc | 81

Not much different from the neocon propaganda transmission center The Washington Post where the likes of Jennifer “Dog Face” Rubin, Charles “Dr. Strangelove” Kraüthammer and the new Russiaphobe on the anti-Putin beat Kathy “McDonalds Pulls out of Crimea” Lally launch their fusillade of bullshit. The entire state-corporate media in Der Heimat is now nothing more than a full-fledged propaganda arm of the Deep State and the underlying shadow government of the war machine. The unified concrete wall of bogus narrative has been erected to protect those freedom fighting neo-Nazis that are subsidized by US taxpayer dough.

Posted by: Donn Marten | Apr 8 2014 23:18 utc | 82

If Snowden is an active American agent, why are the Russians being so nice to him? VoA hosts a "Thank You, Edward" ad and has had it displayed on their site probably for more than a year. Right hand side.

Is it because they are stupid and have been taken in? Let's see. The people who made the entire American, Israeli and EU establishments look like complete fools over Crimea and the Ukraine. The same people who have probably thoroughly penetrated the intelligence branches of all 3 of those entities are fooled by one "double agent". Is that really a plausible scenario? Is that realistic? :)

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 23:20 utc | 83

"VoA hosts"...VoR. Some howler, eh?

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 23:23 utc | 84

@ #54

Comrade McCain sounds like one of those GASP - dirty commies - that neocon swine like him continue to invoke in order to justify their endless military interventions. Having the US government force corporations out of Russia and Ukraine seems to run counter to all of that truly patriotic American practice of the sending the NGOs in to instigate coups or simply launching military strikes to pave the way for McDonalds, Chevron and WalMart.

When will this crazy old bastard finally be packed off to a hospital room like other anti-Commie fanatics like James Forrestal?

Posted by: Donn Marten | Apr 8 2014 23:34 utc | 85

Cartalucci compares the Kiev coup with the protests against the Thai regime. A Tale of Two Protests: Ukraine and Thailand – End Game

This is how he ends the article:

"Within the West’s global order, armed Nazis seizing power in Kiev is “democracy,” while court decisions against overt corruption and abuse of power in Bangkok is considered a “coup.” What determines these considerations is clear – the utility of those it is backing in regards to Western hegemonic global expansion. While the Nazis in Kiev willingly offer Ukraine up to the European Union for plundering, Thaksin Shinawatra has been willingly doing so for decades with Thailand in the form of free trade deals, selling off national assets, and committing Thai troops and territory to the West’s global military adventures.

In Ukraine, the West appears to have at least a tenuous foothold in Kiev, even despite losing Crimea altogether and with the threat of eastern Ukraine peeling off next. The end game is still unclear, but as the West’s influence wanes elsewhere around the world, it will only further embolden those opposed to the new regime in Kiev to rise up and challenge it.

In Thailand, it appears that the regime of Thaksin Shinawatra has reached the end of its lifespan. The courts appear poised to remove his sister Yingluck Shinawatra from power, and having mismanaged the country so poorly since 2011, much of his once formidable support base has either melted away, or worse yet, joined the opposition.

His permanent removal from Thailand’s political landscape will, like Egypt’s success against the Western-backed Muslim Brotherhood, continue the irreversible decline of Western influence. While the West has busily set the narrative for a what it claims will be a “civil war” in Thailand, demographically and statistically it is impossible. Instead, the end game for Thailand will be one of terrorism employed by the ousted regime of Thaksin Shinawatra, one that will only further cement his departure from Thai politics and obstruct any associated with him from ever returning to power again."

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 8 2014 23:46 utc | 86

oops. Spelling error That's Jon Rappoport. Here's a compilation of his stuff on Snowden.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 8 2014 23:47 utc | 87

Petras compares the methods used by the USA to control Colombia and the Ukraine. Violence and Terror: The Ukrainian and Colombian Road to Empire Building

His conclusion:

"Large-scale, long-term subversion and organization in Ukraine and Colombia, as well as the funding of paramilitary and civil society organizations (NGO) has enabled Washington to: (1) construct strategic allies, (2) build ties to oligarchs, malleable politicians and paramilitary thugs and (3) apply political terrorism for their seizure of state power. The imperial planners have thus created “model states” - devoid of consequential opponents and ‘open’ to sham elections among rival vassal politicians.

Coups and juntas, orchestrated by longstanding political proxies, and highly militarized states run by ‘Death Squad Executives’ are all legitimized by electoral systems designed to expand and strengthen imperial power.

By rendering democratic processes and peaceful popular reforms impossible and by overthrowing independent, democratically elected governments, Washington is making wars and violent upheavals inevitable."

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 9 2014 0:02 utc | 88

How does NPR distinguish between public versus private? It doesn't, but it calls itself public anyway which is less than ingenuous. Public Radio was well-intentioned when it first rolled out, but now it's just another form of corporate autocratic containment. However, the meme that it's public lives on; so many "Liberals" still believe it's the most objective news source out there and that it's still really "public" since they donate a portion of their Starbucks budget to it. Speaking of memes, there's this:

A Trip Down Meme…ory Lane

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Apr 9 2014 0:14 utc | 89

Robert Snefjella

"Whatever was actually intended, the effect of Snowden has been imo extremely positive"

of course.

james | Apr 8, 2014 7:15:34 PM

"@79 - robert snefjella. - i agree. the fact that snowden might be, or is oblivious to the role that hrw and amnesty international play gets blown out of proportion and becomes the most important talking point, instead of acknowledging the good he has done in revealing what we only suspected beforehand.. being bitter and hostile about everything seems to appeal to certain types more then anything else."

yes. this type gets banned frequently. I don't mean e.g. the type who insist on a particular false flag reading of 9-11-2001. I mean the type who insist if you don't sgree with their reading you are part of the conspiracy.

hard core cranks.

Posted by: truthbetold | Apr 9 2014 0:53 utc | 90 Quinoa Is Kosher For Passover, But Mom May Not Approve

Posted by: scalawag | Apr 9 2014 1:11 utc | 91

truthbetold: "yes. this type gets banned frequently. I don't mean e.g. the type who insist on a particular false flag reading of 9-11-2001. I mean the type who insist if you don't sgree with their reading you are part of the conspiracy."

exactly. snowden never stated "HRW is really good guys who never work with CIA", he just reported basic facts as he understood them. he also revealed that the US spies on germany. and on huawei, etc. is that endorsing germany and huawei as the true pure good guys? no. it's reporting basic facts. in addition to enemies, the US spies on entities which are de jure allies, or that otherwise may be cooperated with or be manipulated. spying on them in fact serves those ends. exerting 100% control is grossly inefficient and unrealistic, ability to intervene tactically to manipulate (which requires awareness) is the smart way to run things.

snowden didn't explicitly spell out he is a true believer in whatever 911 conspiracy these nuts would prefer he believes in, he didn't explicitly spell out his exact stance on israel. so what? fact is, he is way more credible for just reporting to the world facts which he personally can verify, rather than ranting on his personal politic beliefs. really unfortunate this slop ends up polluting the debate.

Posted by: mutantsushi | Apr 9 2014 1:58 utc | 92

JC, I thought that maybe once the propaganda onslaught a la NPR - which is why I posted this all here - concerning Obama, Syria, Libya, Ukraine etc etc were exposed to be the nonsensical fairy tales that they are people might not allow themselves to be suckered by yet another intelligence crafted tall tale. Oh well, everyone needs a hero REAL BAD these days I guess. Yup, Snowden and all of the horeshit warmed over stale info that he leaked - but which his buddy GG and others will finish releasing by about the year 2075 at the pace they're going, but I digress - sure has helped people understand that to be a good little whistle-blower one should:

1) NOT dump information onto the Internet
2) SURRENDER all information to Establishment journalists who can then leak it at their leisure (or not) after partnering with Establishment billionaires etc.
3) ENSURE that NO war criminal intelligence assets are compromised
4) ENSURE that NO war criminal murder/mayhem operations are jeopardized
5) ENSURE that people opposed to Constitutional violations join the pre-framed "debate" and work WITHIN the system - yes, the system that created said problems in the first place - to effect change.
6) ENSURE that people DO NOT start talking about ditching their glimmer-boxes and demanding a return to OFFLINE life. Notice how Snowden et al never talk about getting OFFLINE? Gee, wouldn't reducing your online footprint be the BEST way to ensure one's privacy? Y'know ditching F*ckbook, Twatter, etc? SHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Just use Tor, dbag!

Yeah, that Snowden guy sure seems on the up and up to me! It's just spooky how correct he is about everything!!

As concerns treating him well, Russia tried to get rid of him but the US wouldn't let him leave - funny that, huh? - so Putin had to walk a fine line and treat him with kid gloves b/c you know for a fact if they had treated him at all like a spy etc the narrative - brought to you by HRW, Amnesty etc, natch - would have been more Pussy Riot-esque nonsense just in time - again - for Sochi. It's my belief that Snowden - being an arrogant jag-off who had smoke blown up his ass for his entire CIA career - was told his mission was one that might end in him having to make the "ultimate sacrifice" or some such cooked up romantic silliness and he took the bait because he was assured he'd be remembered as an "American hero" by the peon hordes for EVAH! Get your Edward masks on, boys, Agent Snowden demands that very least of your respect.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 9 2014 2:10 utc | 93

NPR is government funded; no better definition of state radio than that. If they don't tow the line, its kaput!

Posted by: Chastity | Apr 9 2014 2:17 utc | 94

@89 - yes exactly.

@92 - what does the jc stand for jesus christ? lol.. stick to the humour as the bitterness is too much for some of us here to want to stomach.. i was wondering how long before you wanted to demonize glenn greenwald again- didn't take long, lol.. he is also one of my heroes even if he is now on the paid staff of the wrong person according to your holy fucking version of reality.

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2014 2:17 utc | 95

this type gets banned frequently.

hard core cranks.

really unfortunate this slop ends up polluting the debate.

Debate? What fucking debate? From having taken reading after reading of websites/blogs there is EXACTLY NO debate in the minds of Snowden fanboys - i.e., the fake left blogosphere - as to the veracity of his person and his fairy tale. Or are you referring to the "debate" that Greenwald and other billionaire bitchboys want us to engage in? Y'know, a debate kind of like the Obamacare "debate" where the conclusions were already planned out ahead of time? Where the parameters of the "debate" were sharply defined and rigorously enforced? THAT kind of "DEBATE"?

The post-Pragma boys - as I like to call them - that have seemingly crawled off of HuffPost over the last two weeks or so here are really something to behold.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 9 2014 2:21 utc | 96


So what about the leaks? Is the NSA in on it too and they are they completely phony? Or when you say "CIA stooge" is your theory that there is some unprecedented internal infighting going on amongst the security agencies?

Yeah, Snowden clearly feels himself "a patriot", and he isn't at all looking to bring down the United States government. He is working for Greenwald, who seems mostly interested that the citizens of the Empire have "privacy" rather than taking the whole thing down and is hooked in with Omidyar - a man who is actively throwing down cash to advance it. He could have gone the Wikileaks route - he didn't. He is in Russia doing god knows what, probably waiting for the political winds to change so he can come home and be a hero - all while the Empire continues on its way.

Yeah, Snowden is pretty far from ideal. Chomsky too - I wish he'd stop saying stupid, untrue shit about the Soviet Union and disown Tariq Ali and the Proyect faction and get off the fence about Syria - but I'm not going to call him a "capitalist bitch" or anything because I know where he is coming from and even though its not where I'm coming from - he has still done lots of useful work.

My point is, I am interested in discussing all these things, but can you please do it with the retard dial turned down? You make Glenn Greenwald's bitchy internet replies sound like the Lincoln-Douglass debates. Most of the time you just sound like someone with grave emotional problems and a keyboard.

You have your opinions, that's good. That's why we're here. But I don't think you're smarter than everyone here, even if you do think everyone is "stealing your bits" like some third-rate, paranoid comedian.

Please don't use this as an opportunity to complain about being "scolded", either.

Posted by: guest77 | Apr 9 2014 2:58 utc | 97

Re: JSorrentines post on this thread:

Imo they are a valuable contribution here, and furthermore have the virtue of not being cutsey, but heartfelt. Many valid points: the Russians were put into a quandary re Snowden; the spying details, which with little exception comes as no surprise to people who have been paying attention, has been unveiled at a slow beguiling pace, a turtle's peep show.

One of the hallmarks of dirty debate pool, often substituting for sound argument, and often a deterrent to self examination, is the ad hominem attack. The empire is especially gifted in this regard. Everybody the Empire intends to destroy gets a prominent demonized place in the gallery of Hitler clones. Which doesn't mean we should go to the opposite extreme and slobber over each other. That's what dogs are for.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Apr 9 2014 3:01 utc | 98

There seems to be, in the comment sections of this and other sites, a fair amount of concern with who is/is not/might be a "troll" or a "paid CIA stooge", etc., and this is frankly a bit ridiculous. Just evaluate the comments on their intellectual merits, fact check them, and move on. Trolls only affect the intellectually weak and emotionally pliable members of society, and one of the reasons I like reading the comments here is because there seems to be a relatively low volume of such souls participating. More explicitly: if you don't enjoy, for example, the humorous and sarcastic dishes that JS is serving up, then offer some substantial refutations or forgo consuming said dishes altogether.

Now, along those lines, it is certainly the case that Sorrentine is not alone in his suspicions regarding Snowden et al. Any defense of Greenwald must these days start with one of his billionaire sugar daddy, and in my mind this defense should include up front an explanation of the extremely unfavorable optics of a guy who stands to lose a ton of credibility, somehow pulling off the media coup of the young century by buying out the entire stash of potentially incriminating materials that should, as pointed out by "troll" JS, have been dumped on the interwebs for all to see, rather than being parceled out over the next thousand years a la Chinese water torture. Sibel Edmonds has belabored that point quite a lot in the recent past, check it.

And Greenwald's new pal Scahill ain't no peach either, as pointed out by Max Keiser for example a few weeks back. Why no mention of the financial terrorism that underlies all of the themes in his Dirty Wars film? Is this a limited hangout as they say, or is Scahill just a useful hipster idiot who knows not what he does? Not claiming to have the answers (that's for sure!), but the point is that there are a lot of arguments on both sides. Labeling anyone with a strongly worded and opposing opinion a troll is intellectually useless.

Posted by: W.H. Brewer | Apr 9 2014 3:01 utc | 99

guest77 #96:

My point is, I am interested in discussing all these things, but can you please do it with the retard dial turned down? You make Glenn Greenwald's bitchy internet replies sound like the Lincoln-Douglass debates. Most of the time you just sound like someone with grave emotional problems and a keyboard.


Posted by: Demian | Apr 9 2014 3:13 utc | 100

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