Who Lost In Ukraine?
Who has lost in the tussle about the Ukraine?
The EU has provided Ukraine with €13.8 billion ($19.1 billion) in grants and loans since 1991. Aid from the International Monetary Fund, and from individual governments that include the U.S., pushes the total well over $30 billion. On top of that, Ukraine has received massive aid from Russia in the form of discounted natural gas—a subsidy totaling $200 billion to $300 billion since 1991, says Emily Holland, a specialist on energy policy in the region
With unfriendly relations of the coup government with Russia the Russian subsidies are likely to stop. That is an extra $20-30 billion hole in an already deep in debt yearly budget. And no, shale gas will not save the Ukraine.
No one will be willing to fill the Ukrainian deficit. It will now have to default.
Then consider these questions about the outcome:
Is Ukraine more united? more democratic? richer? Is NATO stronger? more attractive? How about the EU? Does it look like a good bet for the future? Are Washington-EU relations stronger? Is Russia weaker? divided? poorer? Putin less popular? Do the people of Western countries think their leaders are smarter, more competent, more electable than they did a month ago? Do people believe their media outlets? [...] And they just keep digging their hole deeper.
The result of the neocon meddling in Ukraine has created, as usual, a terrible mess for the "west" and even more so for the Ukrainians. Is there any way to prevent a repeat of such misdeeds?
Posted by b on March 22, 2014 at 17:40 UTC | Permalink
next page »Great job of keeping us informed! I can't add anything. However, I imagine the neocons will eventually re-focus their sights on Venezuela once they see they can't make much headway in Europe.
Posted by: Maracatu | Mar 22 2014 18:05 utc | 2
Unless the west doubles down on Syria, which I doubt they could, Venezuela is next on the menu.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 18:20 utc | 3
"The result of the neocon meddling in Ukraine has created, as usual, a terrible mess for the "west" and even more so for the Ukrainians."
So Zbigniew Brzezinski and George Soros are neocons? I didn't know that.
Posted by: scalawag | Mar 22 2014 18:35 utc | 4
@4 Maybe not in name, but as scripture tells us, "by their fruits ye shall know them." Hillary obviously didn't purge the self-identified neoconservatives during her 4 years at State, and she may well be PNAC's favorite for the 2016 presidential race.
Posted by: Jon Lester | Mar 22 2014 18:47 utc | 5
Well its obvious who won in Ukraine. Israel Shamir, over at Counterpunch has a new joke.
Israeli President Peres asks the Russian President:Peres: Vladimir are you of Jewish ancestry?
Putin: What makes you think so, Shimon?
Peres: You made the US pay five billion dollars to deliver Crimea to Russia. Even for a Jew, that is audacious!
Basically sums up the situation at present. Fireworks were going off in Moscow in celebration at bringing Crimera back into Russia. All the better that Putin got the US to pay 5 Billion dollars for the privilege. In Crimera the Russian Rouble is already being used as the currency. In Western Ukraine the Nazi's are making asses of themselves as everyone knew they would. It's a very real possibility that by the time this ends Russia will control all of Eastern Ukraine (all they have to do is sit back and wait for Ukraine to implode).
Merkel has also made an Ass of out herself and I think Germany will be a big loser. The Irish Times this morning accused Merkel of "Russia Bashing" and called for a return of Ostpolitik. Not sure if Merkel agreeing to sanctions was because of her personel dislike of Russia growing up in East Germany or whether it was the Christian Democratic Party line (which has always been Anti-Russian) but she messed up big time and I suspect will be left to deal with the fallout once the US turns its attention to its next Imperial project.
China is also a big winner. Latest news is that Russia is willing to sign the long talked about "1 Trillion dollar Gas Deal" to supply China. It had been stalled the last few years because of Russian reluctance to give China a discount. But the tension that could arise in the European gas supply means Putin will seek to strenghten the China supply lines to offset. Still its a good deal. 1 Trillion dollars over 10 years is no small amount.
Igor Sechin the head of Rosneft (Russian state oil company) said a deal could be signed in May. He added:
If Europe and the United States isolate Russia, Moscow will look East for new business, energy deals, military contracts and political alliances.
I'm sure the whore of Paris, Francois Hollande, will be worried about that since he just signed a 2 billion weapons deal with Russia before this whole mess erupted. Maybe he could get the Saudi's to bail him out again.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Mar 22 2014 18:49 utc | 6
Is there any way to prevent a repeat of such misdeeds?
Short answer: no.
As Robert Parry points out in the article to which you link the neocons are deeply embedded in the Washington power structure and they're not going anywhere. The history of the Bush administration has demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt that America's elite is so well entrenched and powerful that is absolutely above accountability - no matter how large the disasters they engineer (whether Iraq or mortgage backed securities) they can offload the costs and others while preserving their own positions and perquisites.
Of course, this can't go on forever. Hermetically sealed elites (a favorite term of Paul M. Kennedy in The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers - a book that should be on the reading list of anyone interested in America's near term future), cut off from feedback from below, is one of the recurring characteristics of empires on the verge of collapse.
Posted by: Lexington | Mar 22 2014 18:51 utc | 8
scalawag #4
Hmmmm. Perhaps we've all been looking at this a bit awry? Or, at least at this point, maybe we'd be better off not thinking of Neoconsevatism, Neoliberalism, Zionism, American Exceptionalism et. al. as separate faiths or clubs, each with their own dogma, articles of faith, behavioral requirements or whatever. Maybe those exclusions have become more or less irrelevant at this point? If you think of them Venn diagrams though, the one absolutely commonality is, they sure do end up destroying the lives and countries of people less "fortunate" than themselves.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 18:52 utc | 9
I'd line to add some issue to the picture b intelligently drawed.
Of, course, Russia will, no matter whether zeu really stops gas imports (which is rather unlikely) or not, have learned a lesson there and sooner or later extend their gas sales to China.
The funny point that I would like to shed some light on is closely linked. Because that trillion zus$ *worth* deal will *not* be in zus$ but in Rubles and Yuan.
Furthermore and very dangerous (for zeu, that is) Russia might come to the conclusion that all its hyydrocarbons should be sold in rubles and Yuan - and not in zus$ or zeuros.
This would mean multi 100bln zus$ and zeuros of international business *not* be done in zus$ (and possibly zeuro).
In the end the party(parties) with a cactus shifted deep into their ass wouldn't be Russia but zusa (and possibly zeu).
As for zusa there is no doubt; they are too completely zio-controlled, too stubborn and too stupid to change course. Good for us; the sooner zusa goes belly up, the better for this world. As for zeu I'm expecting to see it break it apart rather soon. As the saying goes "The frontier of friendship is money".
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 19:10 utc | 10
It's not who lost. That's too early to tell. It's a matter of who will lose.
You all are missing the point. The U.S. Treasury has sent Vladimir Putin a chilling warning: We know where your money is, and we can expose you for what you are.” The Treasury hinted at a “direct (financial) relationship” between Putin and owner of a shadowy oil trading company chartered in Switzerland, who happens to be on the sanctions list.
A reputable Russian Web site just published the news that Putin’s purported business partner sold his shares worth billions of dollars, yesterday, one day before being placed on the sanctions list. It does not seem that Putin is laughing at the joke any more.
President Obama announced today a second round of sanctions imposed on individuals in Putin’s inner circle, a Russian bank, and against key sectors of the Russian economy. Obama recognized that such sanctions will disrupt not only the Russian but also the global economy. However, these penalties are regrettably necessary if we want to live in a 21st century world that respects the sovereignty of nations, declared Obama.
Actions that hurt Putin, and over time will destroy Putin. Obama is patient, methodical, and has time. Putin’s popularity is fleeting. The more Russians find out who he really is, his corruption, his relationship with the oligarchy, the less popular he will become.
You see, it is not all hat no cattle. Not just words. Actions. It's The Banks versus The Tanks. The Banks always win. Always. Show me evidence of when it was otherwise, but keep in mind we're talking about the Long Game here.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 22 2014 19:13 utc | 11
i agree with other here, venezuela is next
so much so, that i misinterpreted ukraine as a feint by empire
Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 22 2014 19:18 utc | 12
Russia eould really not like to intervene in East Ukraine and their talk has been consistent on this since the begining of the crisis. Crimea too was not on the cards until the US backed fascists came to power in the coup. I feel similar circumstances aling with the current crackdown in the east would eventually drag Russia in. That will be "Round 2: payback" by the US-EU-Nazi alliance. Make no mistake, the US is not done yet. Their actionsall seem to be heading in this direction despite media announcements to the contrary with talk of federalization.
I think whats missing in the general lefty narrative of the imperial aims of the US is that it is a scavenging empire. A half deatroyed violence ridden semi Nazi government is still a success if atleast they get back the initial investment. Which they will through their phony deals, agreements and pacts.
Another point to note is that this kind of empire building is "easier". You do not need to satisfy some underclass of people. You merely coordinate with the elite, loot, rape, plunder and move on. Whats more is that you destabilize your enemy in the process.
From the US standpoint this is still a win.
@11
"The more Russians find out who he really is, his corruption, his relationship with the oligarchy, the less popular he will become."
That hasnt happened to Obama or any other US president yet.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 19:24 utc | 14
@11 New arrangements can always be made, much as I've done with my own alt-banking on a personal level in recent weeks. I think you also underestimate the vast potential of the coming Eurasian customs union, which I predict will grow rapidly, even as the EU loses the UK, and likely other states after that. Let's also not forget that the Collective Security Treaty Organization (or Shanghai Cooperation Council, whichever name you prefer) has been coming together over the last several years, as a counter to NATO.
Posted by: Jon Lester | Mar 22 2014 19:27 utc | 15
Yeah, I was waiting for the stories about Putin being a multi-billionaire with secret castles and yachts of pure gold, bla bla.
As for Venezuela I'm, of course worried but I don't think, Venezuela is on the menu for now.
Frankly, I'm wondering since some time now because *obviously* zusa is playing dirty games there but for some reason zusa didn't - and, so I guess, won't - attack militarily.
One idea I have about that (and I could be miles off) is that in that case Russia would very strongly fortify Syria and Iran and BRICS would go full scale berserk against zusa leading to zusa demise.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 19:33 utc | 16
13) I agree with that analysis. The Kyiv government is practically provoking Putin into intervening, as someone must have advised them to. Putin loses if he does and if he don't. Ukraine will lose anyway.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 22 2014 19:39 utc | 17
RE: #4--I've been calling the whole bunch Neoliberalcons because they all come from the same pot that's been stewing since the aborted 1934 coup attempt to remove their first really big ally, FDR.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 22 2014 19:44 utc | 18
I don't agree. Because if Russia enters ukraine the wezt will completele lose face unless they attack - which they won't and can't.
My understanding is that zeu (and to a degree zusa) try hard to limit and to de-criminalize the nazis and terrorists while at the same time they try to fix the status quo of ukraine minus Crimea as a souverign state.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 19:45 utc | 19
@16 You mean BRICS minus India though right? Usually India plays ball with USA.
I was honestly surprised they supported Russia in this Ukrainian thing though, but I dont think it signals any significant change of policy for India. India will continue being the most friendly of the BRICS to USA, if only because its still scared shitless of China more than USA.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 19:45 utc | 20
Here you go: http://www.globalresearch.ca/western-mercenaries-in-ukraine/5374815
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 19:54 utc | 21
Massinissa
Yes and no. You are right insofar as India indeed tries to not take sides. But one must not forget Indias history. I'm quite certain that India is strongly pro-BRICS and willing to go a distance, albeit without any readiness to really piss off zusa.
On the other side, it certainly hasn't escaped Indias attention that Iran was obviously too big a bite for zusa and sure enough India doesn't consider itself militarily inferior to Iran.
I'm not so sure btw. about India being oh so worried about China, In the end the BRICS countries will sort out any troubles in a more or less civilized manner. What probably troubles them more is Pakistans increasingly tight relationship with China.
Whatsoever, BRICS has been created to dethrone zusa and to create a multipolar world. India will certainly, at least to a degree, go along that path.
Disclaimer: I don't know a lot about that part of the world except from a military perspective. So I might be dead wrong.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 19:54 utc | 23
@23 Youre probably right, Pragma. India will side with the USA... So long as it does so without actually pissing anyone else off too much, or inconveniencing India too much.
They may be USA aligned but if they see USA going down, theyre going to bail, fast.
Maybe thats why they supported Russia on this Ukraine issue: India saw which way wind was turning on that issue.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 19:57 utc | 24
Nora (21)
Well, that was to be expected. But then, looking realistically at it, zusa (and generally weztern) mercenaries aren't to be taken too seriously because, frankly, their major forte is lawlessness and the readiness to employ brutality. Once confronted with a professional opponent they'll quickly run or die.
Which btw. is sth. that can be generally said about weztern special forces, mercenaries, seals and whatnot (they probably even have special bakers, special nurses and special waitresses ...).
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 20:00 utc | 25
Mr. P@ 25
Well, yes, and I still think part of the rationale is, better anywhere but here, and best of all if we also have no official responsibility for whatever damage they do.
I just tend to get hung up on the damage.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 20:05 utc | 26
Massinissa
Well, I didn't want to put it that frankly, but yes, you are right in that India is, uhm, the weird piece in BRICS. Being at being frank: I consider India militarily as largely insignificant although they seem to be in their way to change that.
In one point my understanding is somewhat different from yours. "siding with zusa" sounds far too strong in my minds eye. To me it looks more like "going with the flow" which just happened to be zusa controlled. Or, to put it differently, I think that India doesn't have any clear (and even less strong) position other than a certain rivalry with China and bad feelings for Pakistan.
"treat them respectfully and friendly but don't expect any clear position and don't care batshit about them" might come close to the attitude of most countries toward India.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 20:07 utc | 27
Nora
You touch an important - and interesting - point there.
Actually it is indeed zusa modus operandi to simply create maximum damage, preferrably with some kind of deniability, and to then harvest what is to be harvested and to leave.
Whenever they tried a real war they looked lousy.
And that's - at least in my understanding - where Putins policy increasingly aims at. To make those operations ugly and costly for zusa and to nail them, to disturb the coward deniability position of the zusa scum.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 20:11 utc | 28
@28
I dont understand... How is Putins policy making things more costly to USA?
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 20:15 utc | 29
This here is now insult to injury
Yet a successful street revolution, like any revolution, is never guaranteed to leave anything positive in its aftermath—or anything at all. In the West, we often now associate protests with progress, or at least we assume that big crowds—the March on Washington, Paris in 1968—are the benign face of social change. But street revolutions are not always progressive, positive, or even important. Some replace a corrupt tyranny with violence and a political vacuum, which is what happened in Libya. Ukraine’s own Orange Revolution of 2004–2005 produced a new group of leaders who turned out to be just as incompetent as their predecessors. Crowds can be bullying, they can become violent, and they can give rise to extremists: Think Tehran 1979, or indeed Petrograd 1917.The crowd may not even represent the majority. Because a street revolution makes good copy, and because it provides great photographs, we often mistakenly confuse “people power” with democracy itself. In fact, the creation of democratic institutions—courts, legal systems, bills of rights—is a long and tedious process that often doesn’t interest foreign journalists at all.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 22 2014 20:23 utc | 30
# 30
A Neocon and Sikorsky's wife. Now that they've gotten their assurances and military gear, they're backing away from any responsibility?
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 20:26 utc | 31
Massinissa (29)
Just one example: The jewland leak created, albeit for the biggest part away from public views, a major cost by stripping zeu and showing them a little dogs of zusa. This doubtlessly incurred, and will incur, costs to zusa.
Even more obviously the Russian even clearly stated that sanctions will prove costly for the criminals.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 20:28 utc | 32
b - thanks.
i like your deeply philosophical question ((Is there any way to prevent a repeat of such misdeeds?)) which i will give a short answer to below, but first -
@6 - colm o' toole... thanks for that post!
@8 - lexington. short term answer - i tend to agree with you.
@10 - mr. pragma. - that is an ongoing question - when does the us currency go bust? everyone likes to take a guess at it and maybe this will be one more nail in it's coffin, but i think it is hard to impossible to predict just when.
@11 - cold n. holefield. your 'banks verses tanks' and the banks always win comment is interesting in that you appear to be totally ignoring how the us$ currency is only as strong as the military that backs it up. if the usa, or the world banking system as described by the federal reserve and boe (along with whatever other systems are aligned with this momentary duo- japan and the euro) can only survive by enforcing these fiat currencies with the supremacy of the us$ thru the use of force - covert and overt - i think these same banks are in trouble.
@13- mightmo. i tend to agree with you. the usa at this point is trouble as i see it. the rest of the world is in trouble as a consequence. the usa seems to be getting closer to complete break down, but it's not their yet. hard to know how long it goes on.
as for b's philosophical question "Is there any way to prevent a repeat of such misdeeds?"
that is a question for people on the planet to answer collectively.. do we continue on in the barbaric fashion we have, or attempt to move out of the dark ages? the impression is, we are having a hell of a hard time moving out of the dark ages and some want to remain firmly embedded their.. i'd like to be hopeful on the fate of the planet earth, but their is a lot of cause for concern.. we need to learn how to live together as opposed to being motivated my greed and self interest. it seems like a hard lesson for us to learn.
Posted by: james | Mar 22 2014 20:38 utc | 33
UK journalist schools BBC re: Putin/Russia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kl2mfHQwQs&feature=player_embedded
Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 22 2014 20:39 utc | 34
Greeks must be PISSED! The EU put them through the ringer and now they're just throwing money into a bottomless pit called Ukraine.
Posted by: JohnH | Mar 22 2014 20:42 utc | 35
Remember this guy? Alexander Muzychko?
Here he is, relaxing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IgRAd_YH-U
I believe he's been tasked with organizing the National Guard.
Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Mar 22 2014 20:45 utc | 36
From someone on SC who follows the Syrian events, just to underline what the new smokescreen is about
"An Update on Kasab battle:
- Al-samra village is back under army’s control
- Nusra, Turkmen gangs and JI terrorists are still trying to capture 2 strategic positions near Kasab (position 45 and Eagle summit), there is no truth to the claims that the two positions were lost.
- Nab’3 Al-Mur is under rebels control (for now)
The picture will most probably change in 24-48 hours in army’s favor. What is different this time is the blatant support from Turkey and the intensity of fire power used by rebels including new weapons sent by the criminals in KSA.
Even if rebels retreat, and I think they will, and lose many fighters and commanders, and they did, they can still attack and terrorize until the army gets the necessary support to finish this odd situation in the borders with Turkey especially that most civilians in areas under rebel’s control have left and we are only left with foreign jihadists and home grown terrorists."
Posted by: Mina | Mar 22 2014 20:46 utc | 37
@Hole, From your(?) blog: "My writing is generally powerfully intense, provocative and critical."
You forgot to add: "a pastiche of sophomoric drivel garnered from the popular US press."
Posted by: ruralito | Mar 22 2014 20:46 utc | 38
No one could ever have predicted this. The IMF. It's such a surprise. I guess it's true. Who's to say? It certainly jibes with my logic compartment. Sorry, the rest of Ukraine. Too bad you're not Crimea. Wouldn't wanna be ya.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/22/ukra-m22.htm
EU-Ukraine trade pact paves way for brutal austerity
By Mike Head
22 March 2014
Amid intensifying US and European Union sanctions and military provocations against Russia, the EU and the Western-backed government in Ukraine yesterday signed a pact that paves the way for brutal austerity measures and free market “reforms.”
The EU-Ukraine Association Agreement is based on the deal that former President Viktor Yanukovych’s Ukrainian government rejected, leading to the US- and EU-instigated protests and violence that ousted him last month.
The pact, signed in Brussels, declares that the Ukrainian government must “embark swiftly on an ambitious program of structural reforms” and submit to “an agreement with the [International Monetary Fund].” The plans being drawn up are based on the “Greek model”—the savage cuts imposed on Greece by the IMF and the EU that have produced a massive growth in unemployment and poverty.
For all their claims of a “democratic revolution,” the EU leaders and Ukraine’s unelected regime of former bankers, fascists and oligarchs announced that they would delay finalizing the economic clauses of the EU association pact—and hence unveiling the austerity measures—until after elections in May.
The pact is another step toward realising the underlying objectives of the Ukrainian coup—Ukraine’s integration into the orbit of the Western powers, the transformation of the country into a cheap labour platform for global capitalism and the ratcheting up of economic and strategic pressure on Russia itself.
Posted by: me | Mar 22 2014 20:54 utc | 39
@38 ruralito - it is hard to take someone seriously who posts this on their blog - "Reality is a lie. Lying, therefore, makes this world go around. Accept it. Embrace it. Understand it fully. And most importantly, lie well and for all the right reasons."
perfect description for a propaganda vehicle though..
Posted by: james | Mar 22 2014 20:55 utc | 40
A pact signed in Brussels. What the fuck does that mean? I don't even want to know.
Posted by: me | Mar 22 2014 20:59 utc | 41
Finally MoA has mentioned the neocons! If I remember correctly, Moa took quite a bit of time to mention them in connection to Syria as well, but it did it in the end and even provided those of us who suspected them with good info from the horses mouth!
So, one thing is for sure! Israel and its supporters in the diaspora - ALL of organized Jewry - must not be too happy with the outcome in Ukraine.
Some threads back, while everyone was yelling about 'nazis' - many still are - I said BS, a main driving force behind the events in Ukraine were the neocons! And anyone who has taken the time to study neoconservatism knows that it is a Jewish movement as this info has even reached mainstream with,for instance, neocon Jacob Heilbrunn’s book 'They Knew They Were Right: The Rise of the Neocons'.
That is why despite ridiculous and constant hysterical calls about nazis and 'anti-semitism' in anti-war leftist(and even conservative) circles, Jewish leaders in Ukraine have said there is no such thing, have supported the coup and its leaders(but of course!) and have directed their anger instead against Russia and Putin in a letter.
See for yourselves:
here
As for the 'nazi' Dmitro Yarosh, leader of Right Sector, he even met with Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Reuven Din El, and told him that their movement rejects anti-Semitism and xenophobia and will not tolerate it. This according to a piece written by a dude who sees 'anti-semites' under every bed, the infamous ADLs Abe Foxman* himself, writing for the Huffington Post!!
*If he didn't the fat skunk would have to work for a living.
Next, i'll re-post an expanded version of my former post with a bit of info added.
Posted by: Luca K | Mar 22 2014 21:11 utc | 42
Something seems to have happened
So the Ukrainians are trapped between a rock and a place that turns out to be too soft to help them, On Friday, when their acting prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, came to Brussels to sign that Association Agreement, the EU was so embarrassed that the ceremony had to take place behind closed doors, away from the eyes of the media. The poor man was not even allowed a microphone, but had to shout out his wish still to see Ukraine as an EU member.The EU knows it is powerless to prevent Mr Putin in due course absorbing Ukraine’s Russian-speaking industrial heartland, leaving the EU to look after what remains of that bankrupt country, like a dismembered corpse. But there is no sign that those impotent nonentities who pose as our leaders have yet realised that their ambition to take over Ukraine must now rank alongside the euro as the two leading examples of how their collective act of make-believe is finally hitting the brick wall of reality.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 22 2014 21:15 utc | 44
Another US-Japan backed Fascist Coup d' Elite Going to Happen in Taiwan, China? P
ast several days an unexpected Taiwan student led occupation to their Congress had halt the government legislation and shocked the Taiwan, China. Taiwan under GMT Party who're US-backed fascist anti-communist war-loads defeated by Chinese Communist and fled to the Taiwan island 65 years ago, now "soft" on communism and want to work closely with People's Republic of China mainland for closer economic ties, while insisting on keeping their power and status quo on the island, want to pass new legislation to ave closer economic ties with mainland.
However, Taiwan's native-Chinese clan party DPP who have many close ties with Japan and US are against the Bill, without a successful veto it in the process, they organized thugs and "students" to violently occupy the legislative hall in the name of "democracy". Organizing a wild beer drinking party while chatting anti-Chinese racist slogans (while they're all Chinese, speak and write in Chinese) and lists of political demands.
Posted by: Kim Sky | Mar 22 2014 21:17 utc | 45
We will hold joint military exercises with Britain and US, says Ukraine Downing Street plays down announcement, saying Britain had not “committed” itself yet to the exercises
Posted by: somebody | Mar 22 2014 21:20 utc | 46
britain, what a fucking laughing stock, it is
chris bellamy, the great historian of the war in the east, quite clear on rt , a sublime victory for crimea
Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 22 2014 21:23 utc | 47
The “neo” labels are misleading; especially, “neo-liberal” since there is nothing liberal or progressive about 21st century Robber Barons.
The American Empire is in its last throes. The Western elite are looting anyone anywhere they can without risk of jail time; the poor, laborers, middle class, tax payers and professionals. Ukraine is next.
There is one guarantee in history that a surveillance state cannot prevent; human beings have to be treated fairly or, sooner or later, they will lash out at their tyrannical overlords. What is special about today is the mash up of true believers, gigantic risk takers, derivatives, peak oil, fracking, climate change, and nuclear weapons. This may not end well.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Mar 22 2014 21:23 utc | 48
@42 luca k.. read this and get back to me. thanks
http://www.dailystormer.com/ukraine-right-sector-leader-dmitry-yarosh-meets-with-israeli-ambassador-pledges-allegiance-to-the-jewish-race/
Posted by: james | Mar 22 2014 21:24 utc | 49
Re-posting my post with a bit of added info:
I've been reading the many threads here at MoA about the coup in Ukraine and
here as elsewhere in the alternative media/blogosphere, I detect this
ridiculous hysteria about "Nazis". YAWWWNNN, everyone, whether on the 'left' or
'right', when desiring to make a point, drag in the nazi boogeyman.
Who are these nazis? Are they people like "Delta", Ukrainian Jewish commander of a Ukrainian street-fighting unit and former IDF Givati brigade soldier?
The jewish Telegraphic Agency, JTA, has reported that 'Delta' "has headed a force of 40 men and women — including several fellow IDF veterans — in violent clashes with government forces." As for the "Nazi" Svoboda; "As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests. “I don’t belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their
team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me ‘brother,’ he said. “What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of [any]
anti-Semitism issue.”
Check out the article here
Odd, eh? Not really. The puppet the neocons installed as 'prime minister', Arseniy Yatsenyuk, is a Jew and has been working closely with (Svoboda's)Tyahnybok, the 'nazi'. Yatsenyuk has appointed as Dnepropetrovsk governor a Jewish oligarch named Igor Kolomoysky, who is a Israeli national.
Turchynov was made the acting President of Ukraine. Also has close relations to
the neocons through a church where he is a pastor or something.
The "Church" 'The Word of Life', reports Bollyn, 'is a Zionist organization posing as a church. It was established by a Swedish Jew named Ulf Ekman, who created a church called “Livets Ord”, which established evangelical churches throughout the former Soviet Union in the early 1990s with the express purpose of finding and funding Jewish emigration to Israel.'
So instead of wasting time on 'nazi' scarecrows, one should be able to clearly see that one of the main driving forces - I'd say the main one- pushing events in the Ukraine are the neocons.
Of course there are also others, like old Polish fart, Brzezinski and his disciples.
A 'cold war warrior' and an ethnic Pole, the guy hates Russia with a passion(old hatreds from the old world). There we see the overlapping interests of Zbig and his people with those of the neocons. Now, Neoconservatism is a Jewish political and intellectual movement. Main themes are Israel and 'what's good for the jews'.
Secretary of State John Kerry (Kohn) appointed as his Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Jewish Neocon Victoria Nuland (Nudelman). The woman is married to Robert Kagan, of the neocon Kagan clan. Robert, Fred, and their father, Donald Kagan, were the founders of the 'Project for a New American Century', which pushed for war against Iraq during the Clinton and Bush administrations. And got it!
Nuland has spent the better part of her tenure so far shuttling back and forth to Ukraine in order to overthrow the moderately(if even that) pro-Russian president and install someone more conducive to Jewish/Zio interests.
WHY are the neocons so hostile towards Putin and Russia? Part of the answer is the
Jewish oligarchs. Former CIA analyst Philip Giraldi wrote:
"The sustained pressure on the Ukraine over the past several months has likewise
been remarkable and, under other circumstances, it would all be difficult to explain but for the fact that it and Russia are essentially two halves of one policy that is being orchestrated by the same group of neoconservatives, some of whom have now, fortuitously enough, attached themselves to the party in power in the White House, which is the Democrats.[...]Like her husband, Nuland, backed by the White House and politicians including
Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, is consistently hostile to Moscow, possibly because the neocon world view favors the predominantly Jewish oligarchs who looted the Russian economy before being brought to heel by Putin."
For example, when Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Jewish oligarch and former head of Yukos, was put in jail, A-grade-neocon Richard Perle led the charge against Putin, calling for the ouster of Russia from the G-8.
The other MAIN REASON for such neocon hostility, is obviously Russia’s support of Iran and Syria, IsraHells perceived enemies.
Soraya Ulrich has also added a gas pipeline angle to the neocons wet dreams in Ukraine.
She writes:
"especially in light of the fact that Israel is poised to play a huge role in eliminating Europe’s reliance on Russian gas and supplying Europe with gas it has stolen from the Palestinians – and Syrians.
Or as the New York Post put it last month: “Israel’s fortune is Putin’s horror”
She refers to an article by David Wurmser, 'The Strategic Impact of Israel’s Export of Natural Gas'.
he writes “Israel and its neighbor now sit atop roughly two years’ worth of European consumption”. He further suggests “even modest amounts of Israeli gas exports can carry significant strategic leverage”. Wurmser opines that “The short-term inflexibility of gas trade and the difficulty of replacing disrupted supply also imply that energy prices for consumers and revenues for suppliers can be easily manipulated by marginal increases or decreases.”
Citing Europe’s gas vulnerability, Wurmser posits “Europe’s grim reality could represent a unique window of opportunity for Israel to nail down
long-term agreements and align export policy with a broader effort to reset Israeli-European relations.”
Now I say;
Does anyone here think if Russia was controlled by the Israel Lobby and Jewish interests as much as ZUSA is, this s**t would be happening??
Posted by: Luca K | Mar 22 2014 21:26 utc | 50
Cold Holefield
Tanks never beat banks?
You might consider that history is cyclical and Oswald Spengler posited that "blood power"
eventually defeats "money power."
You might consider that as Putin rallies the Russian Slavs.
Posted by: amspirnational | Mar 22 2014 21:29 utc | 51
Neocon. Neocon? The west is all about the neocon.
The name DailyStormer does not cut it for me. Announcement: White people, just stop it.
Yes, I'm making assumptions. Please get a restraining order.
Posted by: me | Mar 22 2014 21:35 utc | 52
Stupid obama
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/03/22/355708/us-fears-russia-forces-near-ukraine/
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 22 2014 21:35 utc | 53
Luka K
Well said.
And yes, the "chosen ones" and their cohorts are excessively pissed of by the fact that not only can they control Putin but in fact, he forces rules on them in Russia.
And they are pissed off because they were wrong in a vital point. They were mistaken by considering the catholic church to be dangerous and therefore all but destroying it when, in fact, the Russian-Orthodox church was the one that would provide a super power with strength in a "marriage" of church and state.
Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 21:45 utc | 55
@48 Theyre not liberal in the new FDR sense, theyre liberal in the 'classic' sense of people like Adam Smith.
Technically, the Robber Barons WERE classical liberals.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 21:46 utc | 56
sorry. Obviously it should be "...not only can they *not* control Putin ..."
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 21:47 utc | 57
@49
You have GOT to be f*cking joking. A white supremacist website? Are you f*cking serious? Dont link that trash here. It cant possibly be taken seriously on any subject.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 21:50 utc | 58
@52
Its a white supremacist website. I even clicked on it. Its logo is the celtic cross, one of the most famous white supremacist symbols.
I wish James wouldnt link that goddamn trash here.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 21:52 utc | 59
@50 Just because the Zionists are working with the Nazis does NOT mean Tyanybok and the others are not in fact nazis.
There were zionist collaborators with Hitlers nazis, and obviously youre not claiming Hitlers nazis were not real nazis because they had zionist collaborators.
Zionists and Nazis hate eachother, but theyre more than willing to work together if it means their mutual interest. Which is why there is mutual Zionist-NeoNazi cooperation in Ukraine.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 21:55 utc | 60
Massinissa
Cool down. Linking to an article on an ultra right wing site isn't equal to condoning ultra right wing views.
It can, in fact, be educational to see how ultra right wing groups condemn the cozy israel-nazi relationship in ukraine.
And honestly: Who is surprised to learn that not that few nazis actually are yet another front of the zionists.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 22 2014 21:58 utc | 61
Massinissa and Mr. P
Evil people have no compunction using anyone to further their ends so of course they'd use each other. A perfect example are the Christian Fundamentalists whom Reagan courted along with the Likud: the Christian Zionists don't give a damn about Jews, they just want to "help" Armageddon arrive (I kid you not), and that means gathering the right number of Jews into Jerusalem where they did while good Christians get Raptured (scooped right up out of their clothes, presumably into God's arms). And yeah, it doesn't quite exist in the Bible that way, but a con-man named Scofield was paid quite well by a very wealthy Zionist to write a commentary-Bible that the Fundies all use. Yup. True dat.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 22:12 utc | 62
darn it: into Jerusalem where they "die" while good Christians get Raptured
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 22:13 utc | 63
@Nora #62:
Scofield was funded by a Zionist? I didn't know that, but it makes sense.
Dispensationalism is a Christian heresy. I wish liberal Protestants weren't so tolerant of it.
The Ukrainian people are the obvious big losers.The IMF and EU will wring every penny they spent in Ukraine back out of the land and out of the hides of the people
Posted by: Marc | Mar 22 2014 22:38 utc | 68
@54 - okie.. irony is cool. i look at the contents from the same poster since there arrival here and haven't formed a positive impression which continues to be the basis for my position here.
@58 - massinissa. my post was in direct response to lucas k's post @42. in fact it was arguing the opposite of what his huffington post link suggested. i am sorry if the website isn't cool for you. truthfully, i didn't even think about that until you pointed it out! i was focused on the content. it doesn't look like you read any of it. that will make following any conversation especially tricky!
@61 - mr pragma. thanks for saying that, although i don't know if the one you directed it to is all that receptive.
Posted by: james | Mar 22 2014 22:38 utc | 69
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22, 2014 2:52:53 PM | 9
Nora
"Perhaps we've all been looking at this a bit awry? Or, at least at this point, maybe we'd be better off not thinking of Neoconsevatism, Neoliberalism, Zionism, American Exceptionalism et. al. as separate faiths or clubs, each with their own dogma, articles of faith, behavioral requirements or whatever. Maybe those exclusions have become more or less irrelevant at this point?"
At the top these distinctions can be irrelevant. Though the zionist fanaticism is real in some quarters and in some areas they do unify in purpose, even if in other areas they do not, more than any other interest group among the western oligarchs. But as for the neolibs and neocons, this is more on the policy wonk level. The policy wonks work out strategy, the oligarchs pick and choose what of it they want to use, or which people to entrust with carrying it out. They make the decisions, the policy wonks are employees.
It is a mistake to assign western actions in the Ukraine to a group of policy wonks because it is the whole western establishment that is behind this sort of major campaign, such as the coup in the Ukraine, or the terrorism against Syria, the beginnings of similar in Venezuela, the Iraq and Afghan wars and so on. All these actions have been done by the oligarchs, with input from various policy wonks on what would be the best strategy.
This is the reason I singled out that line in the header article for questioning. Neither Brzezinski nor Soros are in the neocon "camp". Brzezinski is a policy wonk, retired but still very influential, but he isn't zionist and doesn't seem to particularly welcome zionist interference in his planning. Russia and eastern Europe is his special field, so he, or his "apprentices" are heavily involved in the take down of the Ukraine.
Soros is an oligarch, like a Saban or Rockefeller, an equal, not an employee, like Brzezinski, and is publicly known for being opposed to neocon strategy, though not their goals, and similarly, a loyal zionist. He has been one of the most influential, if not the most influential heavies behind the eastern European coups, and he and his people are no doubt very heavily involved in the Ukraine now.
Both Brzezinski and Soros, and their people, are probably closer to the real driving force behind this Ukrainian coup, than the neocons. They have the experience. The neocons are a sideshow to take the heat and provide the media with their "celebrities". That seems to be their usual role. Essentially political "performance artists", since their "strategies" tend to mimic the fantasies of freshman college students who have not discovered the other sex yet.
What is really harmful about blaming the neocons for the coup in the Ukraine is that it lets the people above the neocons (in the western capitalist food chain) off the hook. As the neocons are minor players, the major instigators remain free to continue as before. Yank the neocons out of the picture, the coup against the Ukraine would have still happened, and would follow along the same general path. There would be different players in front of the media, the theatrics would be different (maybe worse, maybe better) and some tactical moves would therefore be changed, but the overall program would be as before.
Posted by: scalawag | Mar 22 2014 22:42 utc | 70
@james,Im sorry if I was a bit testy on the matter. But even still, I dont think a site like that has much credibility on much of any subject. Perhaps if you linked to a site that wasnt openly antisemitic and racist to, well, almost everyone, I would be more receptive. I dont really care whether or not one group of Nazis thinks another group of Nazis are not properly doctrinaire Nazis, no offense, which was pretty much what was happening with that article.
Regardless, im much relieved to know you yourself are not a neo-nazi.
But anyway, Lucas K is BSing if he thinks theres no anti-semites in Ukraine. As I said to him in my own response to him.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 22:45 utc | 71
anti semites and neo nazis, I should have said. The antisemitism doesnt bother me quite so much. I mean it does bother me, but If they were peaceful antisemites instead of ones that overthrew governments violently I wouldnt be quite so peeved or alarmed...
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 22:47 utc | 72
@70 I agree with everything you say here I think.
Speaking of zionists and oligarchs, does anyone know of any western oligarchs off the tops of their heads that are NOT zionist?
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 22:49 utc | 73
scalawag
Beautifully stated description of what's going on right now, how these particular pieces fit together well enough, at least, to destroy a lot of people's lives. It's not a fixed state, the various pieces and playahs can all move around when they think it suits them, but this is what we're up against at the moment.
The bottom line is, they're all monsters and they all need to be stopped. Again, given this particular configuration, the issue is how.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 22:51 utc | 74
#73 Ken Langone, owner of Home Depot, is a (very) outspoken, reactionary Catholic, and throws his money around big-time. Not sure where he is on foreign policy issues, will try to check, as well as think of anyone else.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 22:55 utc | 75
Oops -- Langone's just got the biggest mouth; he has two Jewish co-owners. dang
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 22:58 utc | 76
@71 massinissa.. thanks. i understand. that link was just in response to the viewpoint being expressed in lucas k's post. i didn't agree with the viewpoint lucas had given or the links to justify the viewpoint. that link was the 2nd one that came up after the huffpo article via a google search using the 2 names i put in. i don't read huffpo. i think the huffpo website if full of shite, so i don't read it!
Posted by: james | Mar 22 2014 22:58 utc | 77
#73 The Koch Brothers, secret funders of just about every reactionary astroturf anything in America, up to and including the Tea Party. (And where did their John Birch Society-founding father make his money, you may ask? How. About. Stalin.)
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 23:39 utc | 78
#73 Not sure about support for Israel, but considering hes saying that democrats 'sound like nazi's' for wanting to tax the rich (very similar to what Perkins was saying a few weeks ago...) means he is PROBABLY a zionist...
Though I wouldnt know. I do know hes an idiot, however. Anyone who calls people who want to raise their taxes Nazi's MUST be an idiot.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 23:42 utc | 79
@78 Pretty sure the Koch Brothers count as zionist.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 23:44 utc | 81
Or if theyre not theyre imperialist enough so that it doesnt matter.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22 2014 23:45 utc | 82
Massinissa, here's where we get into that overlapping-directorate problem -- the Kochs, and Langone, really just care about making money and not parting with a penny of it unless it's for something they want. From what I can tell of either the Koch's various nasty astroturf organizations or Langone's revolting comments, they couldn't care less about Israel, or actually, even, "American Empire". It's just company profits. BUT you may rest assured that they'll do anything they can to ensure same, so of course they'll grease a Zionist (or any other) hand if the returns to their bottom line are good enough. But that doesn't necessarily make them Zionists, just fellow-travellers when and if it suits them. It might as well be the same thing, of course, but these guys would sell out their mothers to make a couple extra bucks, so of course they'd sell out the US, Israel or anyone else. Hey, business is business, greed is good, yada yada yada.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22 2014 23:51 utc | 83
Bacevich isn't always my cup of tea but for anyone interested in how Americans got quite so stupidly militaristic, the (semi-) grown-up-comic-book oligarch Tom Clancy certainly contributed:
http://thebaffler.com/past/tom_clancy_military_man
Posted by: Nora | Mar 23 2014 0:11 utc | 85
20th March 2014, city Sevastopol, Crimea, Russia.
Soldiers of Sevastopol riot police "Berkut" and members of self-defense forces have arrived home in Sevastopol. Since late February, they stood at a checkpoint in northern Crimea and protected our peninsula from the fascists and provocateurs. They stopped the smuggling of weapons and explosives, which were carried even by journalists and priests of Ukrainian Catholic Church.
Now, at the checkpoint, they have been replaced by Russian border guards.
People on the stage were congratulating each other, saying solemn words and thanks for the service and heroism.
People around the scene, in the square, just rejoiced.
You cannot understand the words without translation, but you can see the happy faces of the people.
Happiness looks the same on the faces of all the people and does not need translation.
I would like to look into the eyes of the mainstream media liars who write about a Russian gun-muzzle aimed at Crimean people. Watch the video and shut up, idiots.
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAD4WdTF52A#t=100
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 0:16 utc | 86
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 22, 2014 6:49:07 PM | 73
"Speaking of zionists and oligarchs, does anyone know of any western oligarchs off the tops of their heads that are NOT zionist?"
Really good question. Off hand I really cant think of any modern ones. Plenty of zionist ones, or debatable ones, but clear cut and dry opposed to zionism? I don't know. They all seem so "happy" together exploiting the rest of us. Maybe a good litmus test to determine a zionist predilection might be if they acted in the interests of Israel in a way that seriously harmed their own "portfolio"? I'm sure more than a few non-zionist oligarchs are members of WACL, but taking the time to wade through that cess pool, one by one...
Posted by: Nora | Mar 22, 2014 7:51:30 PM | 83
Thanks for earlier.
The "greed factor" and the psychotic desire for power over others seems to underlay all of it. The resulting turf wars, religious and cultural chauvinisms, and similar, I'm fairly sure stem from those traits. And the personal insecurity. Most of the western oligarchs are out for themselves. What may give the zionist leaning members is they are more unified. So when they together want something, they can bring more weight into the equation.
Posted by: scalawag | Mar 23 2014 0:32 utc | 87
"What may give the zionist leaning members is they are more unified."
Members more clout.
Posted by: scalawag | Mar 23 2014 0:34 utc | 88
Now that the OSCE monitors' access to rump Ukraine has been agreed, it ought to be interesting to gauge their assessnent of the state of play on the ground once the practical effects of the accords signed by usurper "Yats" kick in. Looking forward to the Western MSM take on events ahead...
Posted by: Cortes | Mar 23 2014 0:41 utc | 89
Russian Truth @RussianTruth1 26m
A McFaul tweet about the possibilities of being nuked by #Russia develops into one about porn & cheeseburgers. https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/447239859350953984 …
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 0:52 utc | 90
brian (86)
It should also be noted that again and again common people there (happily) shouted "Thank you! Thank you!".
It is absolutely evident and there can not be the slightest doubt that the events in Crimea are driven by the people and not by any outside force (as some wezterners and kyiv criminals alledge).
And those "Thank you!" are well deserved. The Crimean people, police, Berkut, and militia have very well protected and served the people of Crimea and, even better, they have done it with a minimum of force or shooting.
Actually we should join them in saying "Thank you!" because they demonstrated that we *can* stand and win against the zionist crime and terror gangs.
спасибо!
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 23 2014 0:55 utc | 91
The chair of Donetsk Regional Council began preparations for the referendum
The chair of the Donetsk Regional Council Andrey Shishatskiy gathered a working group on holding the referendum on the territory of the region.
As was previously reported, the Regional Council adopted such decision on March 3. The working group already conducted the first meeting.
Holding the referendum on the status of the region is one of the major requirements of mass rallies Russian Spring, which are held across the whole south-east of Ukraine since the beginning of March. Participants of rallies also require giving Russian language the status of the state language, as well as release of the people’s governor Pavel Gubarev.
http://nahnews.com.ua/the-chair-of-donetsk-regional-council-began-preparations-for-the-referendum/
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 1:16 utc | 92
NOTE: On Monday, March 24, at the upper house of Russia’s Duma will hold a ceremony of adding the new flags of the Russian Federation – the Crimea and Sevastopol.
-------------
Rep office of the Republic of Crimea set up in Moscow
22.03.2014 08:54 Crimea, HIT, Politic
крым
Republic of Crimea opened a representative office in the capital of Russia, following the decision taken at the meeting of the State Council of the Republic on March 21.
Permanent Commission on Resorts and Tourism at Crimea State Council will supervise implementation of the draft resolution on the Crimea representation office in Moscow.
Head of the State Council Vladimir Konstantinov said that the country has always had a rep office in Moscow, reports the press service.
“In different periods, it either worked successfully or was idling. Then, it was liquidated. Now is the time to restore justice – to restore the Office of the Republic of Crimea,” said Vladimir Konstantinov.
According to the head of the State Council, the Office will have many functions.
“First and foremost, it’s coordination of work with authorities of the Russian Federation,” said Vladimir Konstantinov.
On Monday, March 24, at the upper house of Russia’s Duma will hold a ceremony of adding the new flags of the Russian Federation – the Crimea and Sevastopol.
On Friday, March 21, extraordinary meeting of Federation Council ratified the agreement on Crimea’s secession to Russia and formation of the new subjects within the Russian Federation. Earlier, the State Duma approved the document.
http://nahnews.com.ua/rep-office-of-the-republic-of-crimea-set-up-in-moscow/
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 1:20 utc | 93
Euromaidan massacre: what really happened in Kiev on Feb. 20,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXYY23A_ZI&feature=youtu.be
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 1:25 utc | 94
Putin’s popularity is fleeting. The more Russians find out who he really is, his corruption, his relationship with the oligarchy, the less popular he will become.
You see, it is not all hat no cattle. Not just words. Actions. It's The Banks versus The Tanks. The Banks always win. Always. Show me evidence of when it was otherwise, but keep in mind we're talking about the Long Game here.
Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 22, 2014 3:13:00 PM | 11
Hope you've got some tasty sauce to sprinkle on those words when the time comes to eat them...
Putin has been popular in Russia (more so than ANY Western leader in his/her homeland) for more than a decade. Bullshit from Mr Hopey Changey & friends won't reduce Putin's popularity to Western 'leadership' levels.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 23 2014 1:33 utc | 95
@95 Yes, like Obama and Francois Hollande. Dont both of them have record low popularity ratings, or something close to it? I mean my god, as soon as a president in the west gets into office, within a few months it dips to worse than his predecessor, because western presidents ALWAYS DO THE SAME DAMN SHIT AS THEIR PREDECESSOR.
Take Francois Hollande for example. What 'socialist'? The man is even more into austerity and foreign imperialism than Sarkozy was! The only real differences between Hollande and Sarkozy is that Hollande has a different political party, wears glasses, and has a less attractive wife. That is IT.
Putin, instead of doing austerity measures and foreign imperialism that noone likes domestically like western leaders do, actually, you know, betters peoples lives and does things that make them happier and more secure.
Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 23 2014 2:32 utc | 96
The Telegraph is reporting that South Stream gas pipeline is cancelled so Russia may not be the winner immediately, and also that Russian companies require over 190 billion $ of financing this year. Maybe the Chinese will step up.
Posted by: Michele | Mar 23 2014 2:34 utc | 97
@brian #94:
After that video, I don't see how anyone can deny that the "peaceful protesters" were shooting at the riot police. Ukrainians have to either accept that they are living under a regime that came into power through the same means as the Bolsheviks, or live in denial.
And the demands of EU officials like Catherine Ashton (who has just met with "dissidents" in Iran) calling for an independent international commission to investigate the shootings are deafening.
Afghanistans Karzai shows his displeasure at US: Afghanistan respects Crimea's right to self-determination
Afghan President Hamid Karzai told a US congressional delegation that he respects the decision of the people of Crimea to reunite with Russia. His comment follows the March 16 referendum in which 96 percent of voters opted to join the Russian Federation.
The events in Crimea and Ukraine were among several issues discussed in a Kabul meeting between Karzai and the group of Democratic and Republican congressmen. The bipartisan delegation was led by Senator Kelly Ayotte.
Karzai made it clear that Afghanistan respects the free will of the people of Crimea and Sevastopol to decide their own future, the Afghan president's office said on its website.
Despite Western claims that the accession of Crimea to Russia will never be recognized internationally, Afghanistan and many other nations have backed the decision made by the Crimean population.
On Friday, Ukraine recalled its ambassador to Armenia after the country's president, Serzh Sargsyan, told Vladimir Putin in a phone conversation that the Crimean referendum was a "model for the realization of self-determination."
http://www.sott.net/article/276092-Afghanistan-respects-Crimeas-right-to-self-determination-Karzai
Posted by: brian | Mar 23 2014 3:03 utc | 99
@98 "Ukrainians have to either accept that they are living under a regime that came into power through the same means as the Bolsheviks, or live in denial."
What the hell are you talking about? The Bolsheviks hired snipers to shoot their own? I'm going to need to see some citations, preferably not Wikipedia.
Posted by: ruralito | Mar 23 2014 3:04 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I'd like to see the Ukraine default, not out of schadenfreude, but because it would set a good example to the rest of the world. It's basically all they have to offer.
Posted by: Knut | Mar 22 2014 17:48 utc | 1