Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 06, 2014

Ukraine: Yuck, I agree with Kissenger

As yesterday's thread keeps filling up here are some noteworthy items on the Ukraine to keep the discussion going.

McClatchy also covers my story about the fake Merkel "Putin is unhinged" quote which the White House distributed through the New York Times. McClatchy:

The problem with stories like the one unfolding in Ukraine is that it is so easy to become a megaphone for propaganda, from all sides.
The current example of this is the New York Times' report posted online Sunday and in its Page 1 lead story on Monday purporting to know what German Chancellor Angela Merkel told President Obama after her conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin. In that story, the Times quotes an identified Obama aide supposedly briefed on the conversation that Merkel described Putin as "in another world."
The quote was too good to ignore and became the reporting line for every talking head and commentator for the next several news cycles.

As McClatchy, like me, found out, the quote was incorrect and Merkel simply said that Putin had "a different view" than the U.S. president.

The BBC finally finds out (video) that the Neo-Nazis are a threat to Ukraine. Even the New York Times admits that these are dangerous people though it still plays down their numbers:

Among them, at least on the margins, are factions that many fellow Ukrainians regard as anti-Semitic and reactionary, including Right Sector, which commands Sotnya No. 23.

Artem Skoropadsky, the Right Sector’s press secretary, took pains to distinguish its members from the rest of the opposition. But he said they shared certain goals, including serving as a check against abuses or halfhearted overhauls by any new authorities.

“Now it is clear that we can influence the government and the government structures,” he said.

Yes, indeed. And that is extremely dangerous.

The new government already tried to prohibit the official use of the Russian language, to disband the communist party which in the last election had 13% of the votes (more than the Nazi Svoboda party) and it kicked the Russian language TV which most people watch off the cable networks. That is a culture war against half of the population of the Ukraine.

Make no mistake. The neo-nazis, now holding all major security relevant government posts, will not voluntarily allow unbiased elections that would likely kick them out again. Not ever.

The parliament of the Crimea has voted to apply for membership in the Russian Federation. A public vote about the issue is now planned for March 16. That is quite early, too early indeed, but puts more pressure on the illegitimate new government in Kiev to find a way to some compromise.

Cringe-worthy as it is, I agree with Henry Kissinger on how such a compromise should look:

Putin should come to realize that, whatever his grievances, a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War. For its part, the United States needs to avoid treating Russia as an aberrant to be patiently taught rules of conduct established by Washington. Putin is a serious strategist — on the premises of Russian history. Understanding U.S. values and psychology are not his strong suits. Nor has understanding Russian history and psychology been a strong point of U.S. policymakers.

Leaders of all sides should return to examining outcomes, not compete in posturing. Here is my notion of an outcome compatible with the values and security interests of all sides:

1. Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe.

2. Ukraine should not join NATO, a position I took seven years ago, when it last came up.

3. Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. Internationally, they should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland. That nation leaves no doubt about its fierce independence and cooperates with the West in most fields but carefully avoids institutional hostility toward Russia.

Kissinger calls for the Crimea to stay with the Ukraine but with some autonomy and secured basing rights for the Russian Black Sea fleet.

That fleet continued its isolation of the Ukrainian navy by sinking an old cruiser at the entrance to an Ukrainian navy harbor area on the Crimean coast.

U.S. president Obama just declared the crisis in Ukraine to be a an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the U.S. which gives him additional powers to wage financial wars via sanctions. This is another escalation after yesterdays news that the U.S. air-force would station additional fighter jets into the Baltic states. This climbing escalation is one reason why some commentators believe that there will be war in Ukraine.

Posted by b on March 6, 2014 at 12:46 UTC | Permalink

next page »

The Spectator - Leave Ukraine to the Russians

We don't know what we're doing. So let's stop doing it

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 12:50 utc | 1

Posted by Saker recently

"Popular democracy" Ukrainian-style

[Video] Footage from a city hall meeting in the city of Vasilkov (just south of Kiev). No translation needed :-)

Someone did give me a translated summary : basically the fat Nazi guys are literally saying to the crowd of people

"You're the Opposition now. We're the ones in power"

Posted by: brb | Mar 6 2014 13:05 utc | 2

I found the bit at the end of that video to be a bit depressing, where they all obediently and quietly stand to attention as what I suppose is the Ukrainian National Anthem is played.

How easy it is to force people to stand and sit at someone elses whim, look how immediately everyone knows the required behaviour and follows along - even though most of the Nazi have left by that stage.

I shouldn't really be surprised seeing evidence that if you surround people with Masked-nazis-armed-with-clubs-and-guns no one will dare do anything other than stand respectfully if you just play some patriotic song, especially when some guy is videoing it all for Youtube, but still.

Posted by: brb | Mar 6 2014 13:14 utc | 3

At first it may seem that Crimean referendum is happening too soon, but after thinking about it, I would say the sooner the better, here is why (mainly addressing Craig Murray):

1) The pressure for Russia to return to bases is increasing on daily basis, and if agreement on self determination and referendum is reached, Russia will have to withdraw.

Problem is, agreement with the West and neonazis in Kiyev isnt worth the paper its signed on. Armed gangs (now probably promoted to official soldiers status) may take over as they did in Kiyev and it wont be as easy for Russia to recapture Crimea back, at least not without a lot of bloodshed.

Puppets in Kiyev also pushing hard for EU and NATO agreement, so if Crimean referendum would happen in a year, Ukraine might be in NATO by then, which would complicate things further.

2) Its not only about Crimea, but also other pro-Russian regions. If referendum is positive, and as those regions already expressed desire to follow the suit, they would either join Russia or receive highly autonomous status within Ukraine.

However if referendum would happen much later, neonazis will sooner or later consolidate the power and any secessionists will be persecuted and put to jail (or shot). Its already happening in some towns (demonstrators arrested, warrants on secessionists issued, etc), just Kiyev is not strong enough to impose it fully, yet.

Therefore the sooner referendum happens, the bigger chance pro-Russian population will have an independent choice, later choice will be made for them, with 24/7 pro-West propaganda and sky-high promises, while Russian media is banned. If that wont be enough to change population minds, "democratic bullets" may happen. Crimea has enough self-determination to withstand it, but will Odessa, Donetsk, etc?

Posted by: Harry | Mar 6 2014 13:43 utc | 4

The Crimean parliament has made a decision to ask the Russian leadership to “launch the procedure of Crimea becoming part of Russia.”

I do not think there is any need for the Duma or for Putin to get involved. The Crimean Parliament should simple ask the Constitutional Court of Russia to annul the illegal 1954 decision.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 6 2014 13:44 utc | 5

Another bimbo girl resign at RT.

Maybe RT should start hiring people that are this pathetic emotional.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 13:49 utc | 6

are NOT this emotional^^

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 14:00 utc | 7

P K @ 5
True, Russia signing over Crimea to Ukraine was a presidential cock-up, or a work-accident done in 15 minutes in the hallways between meetings, as a norwegian commenter said.

Posted by: Alexander | Mar 6 2014 14:40 utc | 8

The blockade of the ukrainian naval port is a resounding sign Russia is dead serious about maintaining control over the Crimea.

I fear, that the Ukraine is gliding down the path of full scale civil war and that will tear it apart into 2 sections. The Ukraine as we knew it today, is something of the past. I guess the russian planners are working overtime to plan the next (military ??) move.

No, it's NOT going to be "pleasant" going forward. Are the EU & US that blind that they didn't learn anything from their (disastrous) meddling in Libya, Syria, Iraq ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 6 2014 14:49 utc | 9

Does the new ukrainian government WANT a compromise ? Are they not actually deliberately avoiding any compromise and deliberately seeking more confrontation ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 6 2014 14:52 utc | 10

There is no compromise and they already showing that using the police forces to dislodge the pro-Russian protesters from the Donesk government building. But I'm not sure they want a war over Crimea right now, just like Georgia didn't start immediately, unprepared, a war for the Russian aligned regions. They will go for the US route of not recognition and may be at some point military actions.

And possibly 'terror' attacks or other disturbances from the Tartar minority in Crimea.

Posted by: ThePaper | Mar 6 2014 14:56 utc | 11

Good piece b, and good recommendations for settlement. Even Kissinger's, the war criminal.
But, does anyone believe the US and its' helpers want a true and just peace for the people of the Ukraine? Historical perspective says no. Putins no angel, but, can the West give up the quest for Hegemony? That, in my opinion, is the issue.

Posted by: ben | Mar 6 2014 15:16 utc | 12

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

...and Henry Kissinger can't either!

(What ever Kissinger has to say, he should have said it before Obama let the State Department and CIA destroy Ukraine.)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 6 2014 15:23 utc | 13

Following b's last link to the Moscow Times in his post, has anyone read through the comments?
Severe anti-Russian/Putin sentiments being expressed there.

Also some completely deranged comments e.g. 'Before we talk about neo-Nazis in Ukraine,
lets identify the true fascist in Moscow.'

Looks like a co-ordinated troll swarm. Our tax dollars/euros/pounds at work.

Posted by: 1 of 10 | Mar 6 2014 15:26 utc | 14

Sounds like b, Murray and Kerry wants Russia to somewhat accept the "facts" the western regimes has established at an incredible pace on the ground, and roll over. But as Harry pointed out, time is of the essence. The US fascist regime has conjured up the Nazis to be their Wahhabi´s in Ukraine. They are probably not going to slit throats and commence the US encouraged hunting season on Russians right away, the prospect of Russia coming in minutes after a threat to Russians and Russian speaking people appear is 100%. That keeps them and their terror regime in place, for now.

This IS an existential threat to Russia (and the rest of the free world) who not are going to accept any anti Russian regime and a NATO/US stranglehold with missiles on their borders, never. If the west backs off, so will Russia as Putin hinted yesterday, but the rhetoric suggests that the Zio-cons behind the hapless clown in the White house have smelled the blood (or so they think) and are hell bent on getting all of Ukraine with Crimea as the main prize. Russia just made that impossible. The February 21 agreement is the only way NATO/US and the Zionazis can get out of their corner otherwise they have to act on their threats. In such an agreement, in a referendum, west will loose what they have gained so far and the fascist will have to go back to under their rocks because nobody will vote for them. Having got so far, it´s impossible to put the genie back in the bottle or the devil back in the hole, even for Kerry.

Posted by: Not so fast | Mar 6 2014 15:27 utc | 15

I generally agree. With the backing of the US and EU, any referendum vote will be rejected by the 'Government' in Kiev - whether that's now or next year. The only difference will be the excuses used to delegitimise an entirely inevitable pro-Russia vote.

Crimea will not be allowed to determine its own destiny for this very reason, despite never being given the opportunity to do so.

Pulling Russian forces back to base may go some way to undermine cries of foul play, but nothing will truly do.

Crimea will always be referred to as occupied territory. Personally, I think one million pro-Russia voters in Ukraine and an existing signed agreement to keep the Russian Black Sea fleet in Crimea until the middle of this century is more useful to the Kremlin than seeing Crimea joining the federation proper.

Future NATO membership and home to a Russian fleet? How does that work?

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Mar 6 2014 15:32 utc | 16

1 of 10 /14

Moscow Times is an anti-putin western site.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 15:33 utc | 17

@1 of 10

The article is even worse."Moscow Times" is the equivalent of whatever newspaper the Miami Cubans might have, or the people of the posh suburbs of Caracas, in other words westernised brats.

Posted by: Not so fast | Mar 6 2014 15:33 utc | 18

While the war criminal Kissinger MAY be saying something, rational/civilized human beings should not even being countenancing a word that comes out of that fat fucking war criminal's mouth.

Again, this trotting out of the war criminal emeriti is US propaganda at its best (read: insidiously worst). The creation of continuity between the narrative arcs of war criminals past and present is a major objective of the American propaganda machine because if there's no time for people to truly reflect upon how worthless the lives of these murderous animals are to mankind, indeed, how much better the planet would have been without ever having had them grace this planet with their pitiful and disgusting existences - measured in the numbers of how many innocent lives saved/left whole, etc - then it all just starts to seem as if - gee, shucks - that's the way it's always been so it must be good or at least normal. This propaganda is especially effective with every new, ever more dumbed down generation who really won't know any better and so they are easily inculcated into thinking that war criminal Obama is just like war criminal Bush is just like war criminal Clinton and on and on....

This is exactly why we're now hearing the opinion of every American war criminal in the propagandosphere: to transmit to us a seamless narrative tapestry of elite-sanctioned murder and bloodshed but under the guise of "serious" people making "well-reasoned" decisions while dealing with a "complex" world which has - once again, glory be - just dealt the "God-fearing, freedom-loving" country of America another "bad hand" with which it must deal.

Really it's just a bunch of disgusting war criminals circling their wagons to protect their own murderous clique.

Fuck these murderers, their solutions, their suggestions and their musings no matter how seemingly rational or how much we may agree with them. Life on this planet would indeed have been a better place had none of you made it out of your witch-mother's wombs.

There are more than enough good, intelligent and rational people on this Earth that we can go to for advice rather than listen to continued and incessant jibber-jabber of mass-murderers.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 6 2014 15:44 utc | 19

10,000 miles away,and a threat to US.The whole thing is just neolibcon Zionist machinations in increasing their control of energy and the use of American power to implement.And look,lo and behold,Israel states they want the democratic process to decide issue.Given that every American or NATO diplomat are avowed Zionists,one might think its just more kabuki theater.And as the story of the freighter with the ground to ground missiles(yeah sure)was Panamanian flagged,one can bet our boys in Panama are in on the scam.Remember the ship with the NK missiles a few months ago?Maybe they just reflagged that vessel.Very convenient timing eh?And what right do these clowns have to stop a ship in international waters anyway?Oh,that's right,Yahweh.(Yeah,like they believe in him,hah)

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 6 2014 15:47 utc | 20

10) I think the US does not want to either, otherwise the Ukrainian coup government could not keep up their act. What we see is "either with us or you are against us". And yes RT's US media personalities are under pressure to resign or have no media career should they leave RT later. There is no US ambassador in Moscow just now and media people are withdrawn as far as I can see.
It is a reset of the reset. They now make Russia's (and Europe's) economy "scream".
It will be interesting to watch European countries react to the situation. They are still under the illusion they can bridge it somehow.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 15:48 utc | 21

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. It's not something to set your watch by. I'm just amazed Kissinger is still alive and not serving time in a prison somewhere.

Posted by: Jim T | Mar 6 2014 15:58 utc | 22

16;Was the 19th century Crimean War fought between GB and France against the Ukraine,or was it Russia?Obviously Russian territory.And nothing is written,so who knows the future as far as Russian or Ukrainian sovereignty.
For the life of me,I just can't see Americans supporting this idiocy of involving ourselves 10,000 miles from home,in an area where we have no skin,as 99%? of Americans are neither of Russian or Ukrainian heritage,but the to the Zionists,it's all former homeland,and isn't their criminal FM from the area?Of course Vietnam etc. was thousands of miles away also,so the snow job on Americans has its historical precedence,but as our nation is imploding economically,I just can't see support for this outside of the usual neolibcon suspects.Billions for foreign usurpers and we get squat.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 6 2014 16:05 utc | 23

The US government is reduced to officially lying.

This here is the text of the February 21 agreement according to the Guardian

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

these are the "facts" of the US state department

3. Mr. Putin says: The opposition failed to implement the February 21 agreement with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

The Facts: The February 21 agreement laid out a plan in which the Rada, or Parliament, would pass a bill to return Ukraine to its 2004 Constitution, thus returning the country to a constitutional system centered around its parliament. Under the terms of the agreement, Yanukovych was to sign the enacting legislation within 24 hours and bring the crisis to a peaceful conclusion. Yanukovych refused to keep his end of the bargain. Instead, he packed up his home and fled, leaving behind evidence of wide-scale corruption.

Western press just reports on what the state department is saying and does not dare to fact check.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 16:09 utc | 24

@9 quote "Are the EU & US that blind that they didn't learn anything from their (disastrous) meddling in Libya, Syria, Iraq ?"

they probably think they did pretty good on that front in spite of the pain and suffering they continue to cause.. nothing seems to be learned and it is just an opportunity for more exploitation under the guise of the "freedom and democracy" mantra.

@20 ditto that..

Posted by: james | Mar 6 2014 16:15 utc | 25

JSorrentine@19: Amen to that rant! If I could write, I wooda' said that.

Posted by: ben | Mar 6 2014 16:23 utc | 26

#21 They came to the rescue of their sister the UK who wanted to reset its relation with the EU (and certainly not accept another 47 million extra mouths to feed) but did not want to take the initiative.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 16:23 utc | 27

Liz Wahl: If you hated Russia so much because of your parents refugee experience years ago, why, oh WHY did you opportunistically take a job with Russian TV??? You accepted the job eyes wide-open to cash in, N'EST-CE PAS?

Does she honestly expect us to believe she was ever a loyal employee of RT and not harboring ill-will that she intended to use against her employer at an opportune time when it hurt this employer the most AFTER she cashed in for a few years? It defies logic!

Does she honestly believe that when she get's hired by the Zionist mainstream: Fox or CNN or whatever she's not going to be handed a BIASED outline to follow? Does she honestly believe she'll be able to speak her mind and that the mainstream hierarchy and corporate sponsors are going to allow her to stray from the usual propaganda line they feed the masses? If she does; she's delusional.

Lady, it RUSSIAN t.v., get it??? To think that this woman betrays her employer in this way while millions of Americans are pacing the pavement looking for work. This woman is an ungrateful opportunist who ended up betraying her employer publicly, when she was probably harboring resentment and vindictiveness all along and doesn't deserve the time of day.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 6 2014 16:25 utc | 28

Remember Homs, with journalists going to the sensitive areas and then pretend they are unable to get out because of the Syrian army?
BBC live:
" 16:08: The BBC's Kevin Bishop writes on Twitter that he and his crew were stuck on board the Ukrainian navy ship Slavutych in Sevastopol after a "dozen or more cossacks appeared on the quay, appearing to block our exit route". "
" 16:09: He posted a series of photos from on board the Slavutych. This one, he says, shows Cossacks blocking his exit from the quay. "

As for people "blocking" you can just see 3 silhouettes extremely far on a road that pass along the quay with a planted area between the quay and the road!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 16:29 utc | 29

Yeah, I know RT is very pro-Russian, but these questions from RT are legitimate and relevant.

Posted by: ben | Mar 6 2014 16:33 utc | 30

A revealing comment on the EU's attitude to far-right groups in Kiev, from the Daily Telegraph:

'Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia are pushing for harder language on sanctions. The wording on Georgia and Moldova is important for them as a warning to Russia that it will not be allowed to pick off countries wanting closer links to EU.
Diplomats tell me that the demand for “quick steps towards the dissolution of any paramilitary structures” could be dropped because it would also apply to Kiev groups, particularly the far-Right nationalist groups that are the backbone of the new government there.'

Posted by: kmf | Mar 6 2014 16:34 utc | 31

I can't wait to see one of them saying he was forced to be transfered to an Israeli hospital by his American/British/French instructor!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 16:39 utc | 32

I've been pleasantly surprised by coverage of Ukraine. With PM (Abbot) and FM (Bishop) both extolling the "virtues" of Zion and the US, it can't be easy telling 'both sides' of the story. A couple of days ago Lateline showed the clip of unarmed protesting Ukrainian Army personnel walking en masse towards very well armed 'Russian' troops. As the Ukes neared the red line, the 'Russian' commander ordered his contingent to fire warning shots over their heads. As they drew closer he shouted (wtte) "We're brothers we shoudn't be fighting each other. If you don't stop my men will aim at your legs."
That stopped them. And (apparently) they engaged in an impromptu game of soccer.

I couldn't help thinking that, had the 'Russians' been Yankees, the unarmed soldiers would be either dead or wounded.
Gutless Yankees are usually in a state of Medium to High panic on the battle field. Which I suppose is the reason the clip was made and released for public consumption...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 6 2014 16:45 utc | 33

Whats happening in Ukraine is nothing
compared to upcoming crisis in EU
+upcoming financial crisis

Posted by: chris m | Mar 6 2014 17:18 utc | 34


Bet this is connected, EU need war, just like the nazis earlier in history and now they have their nazis friends in ukraine ready to start fire on russians.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 17:23 utc | 35

Putin has masterfully manipulated the "political" world into the position where it will be no longer be able to prevent the (long overdue) legal reintegration of Crimea with Russia. Forget about the sound and fury coming from US and EU concerning Ukraine, because that is what it is, with no basis in international law, which Putin has scrupulously followed. Obviously, Crimea would choose Russia rather than the west given a legal opening and that is exactly what they now have. Of course international law has often been perverted in the past by the United States, but those days are changing as Russia gains strength. The original Crimean referendum had been scheduled for the end of May and note how the date comes forward almost on a daily basis. Any further delay will lead to continued confusion and further destabilisation and weakness within Europe, as well as in Ukraine. In my opinion, that is one of the "underlying and unofficial" goals of the United State regime.

It is somewhat naive that so many delight in pointing out the dumbness of the unimportant American public (it has always been so) and the apparent idiocy, ignorance and unscrupulousness of many American politicians (also the case). I would respectively ask them to consider that most of the "shocking revelations" deal directly or indirectly with corruption and incompetence and are damaging the "reputation" of the EU. If the unelected masters in Brussels are so stupid as to accept the bankrupt parts of the Ukraine, and even more amazingly, choose sanctions against Russia, those may be the straws which will break the Euro and them. Their inflexible and thoughtless socialist policies have brought western Europe close to financial and moral chaos. Should that scenario take place the US will shed crocodile tears, and laugh all the way to the bank. Someday their day of reckoning will occur as well, but not just yet.

Posted by: TicoTiger | Mar 6 2014 17:32 utc | 36

I was struck how much Kissinger, war criminal and all, piece in WaPo matched Putin's press conference. I see why b agreed.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 6 2014 17:34 utc | 37

I am not sure if this piece from Chris Bollyn has already been posted but it sheds more light on who the usurpers are Understanding the Crisis in Ukraine.Updated March 6, 2014
"...One of the leaders of the Svoboda mob of anti-government protestors is "Delta", an Israeli veteran of the IDF's Givati infantry brigade, according to a report from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency ( Delta, an Orthodox Jew in his late 30s, headed a force of 40 men and women, including several fellow IDF veterans, in violent clashes with government forces. As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda... What is most disturbing about the regime change that brought Yatsenyuk to power is that he seems to have been put in that position through the actions of Victoria Nuland, an official of the U.S. State Department who is married to Robert Kagan. The Kagan family, Lithuanian Jews of Khazar ancestry, seems to have a permanent fiefdom at the State Department... The coup in Kiev also made Oleksandr Turchynov the acting President of Ukraine. On February 25, Turchynov assumed the duties of the supreme commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. While some American Baptists are reporting that Turchynov is a pastor or an elder at his church, the Word of Life Center in Kiev, they are missing the point. The Word of Life is a Zionist organization posing as a church. It was established by a Swedish Jew named Ulf Ekman, who created a church called “Livets Ord”, which established evangelical churches throughout the former Soviet Union in the early 1990s with the express purpose of finding and funding Jewish emigration to Israel. As the Wikipedia article about “Livets Ord” says: In conjunction with Christian Zionists in the United States, Livets Ord operates a fund to supply money to Russian Jews who want to move to Israel. The fund, named "Operation Jabotinsky", is named after Russian Vladimir Jabotinsky..."

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 6 2014 17:36 utc | 38

So now EU have used sanctions on Russia, wow these are really stupid people, bet EU soon will start calling Pussy riot "rebels" and begin to arm them.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 17:39 utc | 39

My apologies everyone if for some reason this appears in triplicate (!) but the last two times it just wouldn't go through. What is Obama really doing here?

Office of the Press Secretary
March 6, 2014

Statement by the Press Secretary on Ukraine

As President Obama has made clear, the United States is pursuing and reviewing a wide range of options in response to Russia’s ongoing violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity – actions that constitute a threat to peace and security and a breach of international law, including Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter and of its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and that are inconsistent with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and the Helsinki Final Act.

Pursuant to the President’s guidance, today the State Department is putting in place visa restrictions on a number of officials and individuals, reflecting a policy decision to deny visas to those responsible for or complicit in threatening the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. This new step stands in addition to the policy already implemented to deny visas to those involved in human rights abuses related to political oppression in Ukraine.

In addition, the President has signed an Executive Order that authorizes sanctions on individuals and entities responsible for activities undermining democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine; threatening the peace, security, stability, sovereignty, or territorial integrity of Ukraine; contributing to the misappropriation of state assets of Ukraine; or purporting to assert governmental authority over any part of Ukraine without authorization from the Ukrainian government in Kyiv. This E.O. is a flexible tool that will allow us to sanction those who are most directly involved in destabilizing Ukraine, including the military intervention in Crimea, and does not preclude further steps should the situation deteriorate.

These actions build upon the previous actions the United States has taken, including suspending bilateral discussions with Russia on trade and investment; suspending other bilateral meetings on a case-by-case basis; putting on hold U.S.-Russia military-to-military engagement, including exercises, bilateral meetings, port visits, and planning conferences; and our agreement with G-7 nations to suspend for the time being our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G-8 Summit in Sochi in June. Depending on how the situation develops, the United States is prepared to consider additional steps and sanctions as necessary.

At the same time, as the President has said, we seek to work with all parties to achieve a diplomatic solution that de-escalates the situation and restores Ukraine’s sovereignty. We call on Russia to take the opportunity before it to resolve this crisis through direct and immediate dialogue with the Government of Ukraine, the immediate pull-back of Russia’s military forces to their bases, the restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity, and support for the urgent deployment of international observers and human rights monitors who can assure that the rights of all Ukrainians are protected, including ethnic Russians, and who can support the Ukrainian government’s efforts to hold a free and fair election on May 25.

As we follow developments in Ukraine closely, the United States reaffirms its unwavering commitment to our collective defense commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty. We will continue to pursue measures that reinforce those commitments, to include the provision of additional support to NATO’s Baltic Air Policing mission and our aviation detachment in Poland.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 17:47 utc | 40

I can't help but wonder if the irony in all this will turn out to be that, in spite of the disastrous neocon U.S. foreign policy in the Ukraine, the neocons end up the winners after all, ultimately rendering that policy disastrous only for the Ukrainians themselves (never a concern for the neocons): Some part (shred?) of the Ukraine will end up under a rightist oligarchy that renders the country an outpost of NATO and its economy just another victim of predatory Eurozone masters and the IMF. As someone else noted, it will be Greece without the tourism, and the West will have a new platform in the East for staging "war games," Russia ever more threatened notwithstanding its consolidated defenses in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

Again, I wonder if Putin has played this too cleverly by half after all and if it isn't the neocons who have gotten their wish for a deeper Eastern Front and a more belligerent and frigid state of affairs between East and West.

Posted by: M.Black | Mar 6 2014 17:48 utc | 41

The ongoing U.S./EU reaction -- sending F-16s to Poland & the Baltics, shrieking in OpEd after OpEd, in a remarkable display of hive-mindedness, about lawless Russian aggression -- tells me that the North Atlantic neoliberal neoconservative paradigm must be closer to collapse than we realize.

The whole thing is unhinged, bearing very little connection to reality. For instance, shortly after Yanukovych fled Kiev, it was reported in the NYT that the reason he fled was that his security detail had deserted him for fear of being gunned downed by Right Sector fighters armed with weapons from a looted arsenal in Lviv.

The fact that Yanukovych fled for fear of his life is now, as Somebody @ 24 points out, the primary rationale provided by the U.S. State Department in arguing that the putsch government is legitimate.

As JSorrentine often comments, these people are insane.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 6 2014 17:49 utc | 42

Tico, there hasn't been a "socialist" govt anywhere in the EU for over a decade. The neoliberal bankers coup that eliminated democracy (as you alluded "the unelected masters in Brussels") in Europe means that Europe will absolutely be savaged by neoliberal orthodoxy, with no hope within probably 3 generations of recovering even a semblance of socialism. you need to remember, too, that socialism worked in those countries in Europe where is was implemented. I agree with Mina on every point she's made about Europe, it's becoming a basket case as we peck at our keyboards. Establishing the Euro was a good part of the bankers' coup, but it's worse than that - the neoliberals now running Europe intend to privatize EVERY govt - entirely. As I've said before, I pray to the Great God Pan, every day that the EZ will vanish from the pages of time.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 6 2014 17:51 utc | 43

A very beautifully written piece by RT's editor-in-chief regarding RT's foreign (mainly American) journalists.
When "news" becomes a commodity, journalists become commodity producers for the market. Those who want to refuse to regard "news" as a commodity will face the challenge of economic hardship and a short cut career as what they produce is forced by the system to be sold as a commodity in a market which is controlled by the servants of that very system.
In the end the journalists face a very hard dilemma: "to be printed and not to be worth it, or to be worth it and not to be printed".

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 6 2014 17:53 utc | 44

Kissinger was right to be against a break-up (as quoted in the top post by b) in the interests of Ukrainians, if that was what he was thinking about.

Ukr. is a ‘young’ country, for sure, and many like to make a big deal about the language, cultural, etc. split between East and West, as seen from the outside, the usual discourse from the divide-to-rule Anglo world, both opportunistic and relevant of their own mindset (colored? worship a foreign god? speak russian,! etc. -kill.)

We have even seen maps posted (completely erroneous, not just misleading) about that divide here.

Ppl on the ground, just like in Iraq, often don’t feel that way at all until the bombs start to hit.

Many countries are bi-lingual, and more, citizens get on fine..anyway no need to argue further about that.

What is striking about the Ukr. gangster take-over or coup or whatever one calls it that hasn’t been mentioned much, is that West is quite poor while the East is very rich.

The difference is stark, more significant than I thought before looking it up.

We see a poor(er) region, squeezed, attempting to take over the whole country by repressing and subjugating the neighbors.

(posted about the language laws some time ago, laws have a long history, btw.)

An attempt at blanket take-over, a move for control of the ‘richer‘ region and holding power over the whole territory.

With support from rogue US elements, internal ‘fascists’, whatever. To be clear, not secessionist but authoritarian expansionist.

Which is why so many are speaking out for keeping the integrity of the Ukr.! bold it!

sidebar > Often, richer regions want to leave their poor neighbors behind (catalonia, flanders, northern italy, etc.) but in Ukr. the poor moved to take over the rich, simply put. With the gansta overthrow of the central Gov.

In West Ukr. (paper docs, no link, no doubt one can look some of it up) the GDP per capita is less than 1,600 (euros) or around that, in the East (industry, arms, agri, manufacture, etc.) more than double: to 2,000, 3,000, and more.

I was also surprised to see the fantastic richness of Kiev, - ok the bankers and movers, media, Gov, live there - more than 6,000 per capita!

(GDP is not a good measure, the numbers are shoddy, but they serve to illustrate.)

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 6 2014 17:56 utc | 45

@Mike Maloney #42 -- Google "Epistemic Closure" -- knowing only one's own echo chamber and believing it reflects the world as a whole was originally applied to today's Republican Party. But how is that different from our Military-Security-Industrial complex, or the NeoCons, or Wall Street, or... ? And yeah, impaired reality contact is a big part of the clinical definition of insanity. But then, indifference to the plight of others is just plain evil. So you can define these monsters in psychiatric or moral terms, doesn't matter: they've still got to be stopped.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 17:58 utc | 46

Pussy Riot staged that 'Cossack' whipping incident for sure, no? With actors? I just watched an extended version of it and there are people there from Vice there filming the whole thing for one of their 'documentaries'! (and also commenting on the spot about it afterwards).

Coincidence I'm sure.

(Pretty sure Vice film execs are either CIA affiliated or compliant - all of their docs have a weird voyeuristic feel, even the Snoop 'Lion' one where he hangs out in Jamaican slums and talks to old reggae stars ...and proves he's a lightweight w weed)

Anyway this video of them being 'whipped' is being used as a valid rebuttal in the Ukrainian keyboard wars.

If people can no longer tell a real event from a fake one where the fuck are we headed?

Posted by: L Bean | Mar 6 2014 18:04 utc | 47

#43 Thanks!
Asylum in DE is the sole option!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 18:18 utc | 49

Transparent democracy at its best "18:14:White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, now on the podium, refuses to name the individuals targeted by US sanctions." (BBS)

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 18:20 utc | 50

TicoTiger @36

Sure the EU has been financially irresponsible in the past, but are you actually pretending that U.S. Banks and Wall Street had nothing to do with the Eurozone recession? And you're forgetting about the 2007-2008 crash we all witnessed with mortgage derivatives and the bailout and underwater mortgage situation that followed. So Americans can't preach to anyone on fiscal responsibility.

It's not that we delight in pointing out the dumbness of the American public and the ignorance of American politicians; it's that both the latter and the former's dumbness has been the root of much of the late 20th and early 21st century disastrous wars and economic recessions precisely because of their ignorance, hubris and unscrupulousness. I'm sure no one delights in the consequences of America's irresponsible behavior.

The U.S. has offered a BILLION dollars to a neo-fascist Ukrainian government and already imposed sanctions on Russia which will no doubt be reciprocated by Russia. While the EU on the other hand has held back and been the one to say "not so fast" despite their initial impulse to sign an "association" agreement with the bankrupt Ukraine. You really think that after the Greece disaster Angela Merkel is going to jump into the Ukraine cesspool with her eyes closed? I hate to say it but so far it's thanks to her that WWIII and another depression haven't started (albeit she's motivated to stop and think by the Russian oil&gas imports and billions in Russian trade Germany benefits from).

Here's the thing, the ones who jumped into Ukraine's quicksand feet first are the Americans. And ironically, Russia's limited intervention stopped the EU from doing same and probably caused the Europeans to rethink the terms of their "association" with the newly-imposed Ukrainian government.

Americans may be laughing first, but they already jumped into Ukrainian quicksand by pledging a billion and more billions to come, so we agree on one thing: Americans won't have the last laugh, 'cause this latest foreign meddling of theirs is one too many. The U.S. right now has more than one brush fire burning out of control, and these'll come at a very heavy price to U.S. taxpayers.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 6 2014 18:21 utc | 51

#47 They've reached new heights since the Arab spring:
pics of the refugees in Tukey's camps carrying pictures of Asad with no mention of it whatsoever,
the famous CNN psyop of "the woman who tried to attack Asad's car" showing a video where you just see a woman getting close to him to talk to him through the car's window... etc.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 18:23 utc | 52

Tatars are being played by NATO's Turkey against Russia Ukraine: Crimean Tatars "Turkish FM Gave us a Guarantee". It will not end well for neither of the conspirators.

"The leader of the Crimean Tatars Kırımoğlu said “When I talked with Turkish FM Davutoğlu, he provided us an important guarantee. Turkish FM Ahmet Davutoğlu has guaranteed that if the Crimean Tatars face a threat, Turkey will step in immediately.”

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 6 2014 18:34 utc | 53

Too funny; Ukraine Issues Arrest Warrants for Crimea PM, Others:

"Ukraine’s interim government is looking to crack down on the Crimea’s autonomous parliament today for its move toward secession, issuing arrest warrants for the region’s Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov as well as the speaker of parliament and several other MPs.

The courts are saying Aksyonov, the head of the Russian Unity Party, was “illegally appointed” to Crimean premier, and that it was likewise illegal to organize a referendum on secession from the Ukraine..."

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 6 2014 18:42 utc | 54

More Pussy Riot Performance Art: Of course, just imagine if they had done their "chicken act" ANYWHERE over here...

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 18:45 utc | 55

@NSS2014 : Nuclear Security Summit will Obama and Putin attend this month in The Hague?

Posted by: Oui | Mar 6 2014 18:47 utc | 56

@17 and 18 : I had to check out the Moscow Times a few days ago because of a right-wing article …

Putin's Crimean Anschluss
By Victor Davidoff Mar. 03 2014 00:00 Last edited 21:01

Most frightening of all is that Crimea is rushing toward civil war. Vitaly Portnikov, an expert on Ukrainian affairs, wrote in his blog on "In Crimea there are a great number of people who identify with Ukraine, not with Russia and certainly not with a government made up of local 'thugs.' This includes tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians, especially young people who have grown up in the new Crimea in the new Ukraine. This also includes Crimean Tatars, who are well-organized, united and even have their own national parliament, the Mejlis."

Mustafa Dzhemilev — former head of the Mejlis, which represents 250,000 people — rejected any negotiation with the illegitimate authorities in Crimea. He wrote in Liga.novosti: "The Mejlis will fight. Even if we have to physically fight the usurpers. Units of Crimean Tatars who are battle-ready are being formed now."

Victor Davidoff is a Moscow-based writer and journalist who follows the Russian blogosphere in his biweekly column.

The Moscow Times is a part of Sanoma Independent Media – Founded by Dutch expatriate Derk Sauer in 1992. []

Sanoma's stock is listed on the Helsinki Stock Exchange. Its biggest owners include Aatos Erkko and other members of the Erkko family. The newspaper Helsingin Sanomat that was founded in 1889 as Päivälehti, is one of the single most significant products of the group.

Aatos Juho Michel Erkko (16 Sept. 1932 – 5 May 2012) was a Finnish journalist and the main owner of Sanoma Corporation and the Helsingin Sanomat newspaper. According to Helsingin Sanomat, for years on end Aatos Erkko was the wealthiest person in Finland. He controlled directly or indirectly 23.29% of the Sanoma Corporation shares, amounting to more than €453 million at the then-current trading price (29 July 2009).

Erkko attended Bilderberg in 1991 and 1994?

Posted by: Oui | Mar 6 2014 18:48 utc | 57

Commodity Traders, Finance and Big Agri holdings on the ground in Ukr. (who are increasingly linked!) have been afraid of a disruption in Ukr. agriculture. As is the rest of the world.

Ukr. is, in absolute volume, about the no 3 export country, world, for maize (corn) and no 6 for wheat.

Breadbasket is a sweet term for a tremendous agri powerhouse, making part of the country quite rich.

It has delivered about 70% cereals that were promised for export until now. (= last summer’s harvest.) Rest is halted.

A few old contracts continue to be honored at trickle pace, most are simply defaulted on.

There is no more wheat, corn exported on any type of ‘free, open, spot’ contracts from the Ukr. at present.

Traders are told, by Kiev thru phone, you have to pay x to Y to get the export contract certificate, or z or B, etc., yes, > individuals.

The traders don’t comply, hang up, it is a racket.


That may sound like Rogue Gvmt. take over. Maybe correct in some measure, but leaves out the farmers and big agri holders pov.

Prices for these commodities have risen in the past week becos of Ukr. yet farmers or agri-holders face their own costs, can’t keep up with the exchange rate, hesitate to deliver with a huge loss at old prices, etc. A mess.

They retain the goods because the biz model (good or bad as it was) is broken, and some say, I want to feed my people.

Spring planting is badly compromised.

Hello bread and tortilla riots anyone?

... from Swiss / other press, this is just my take really, spoons of salt.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 6 2014 18:52 utc | 58

That's why we're rapidly approaching system failure, Nora @ 46. An embrace of what Karl Popper called the "principle of falsifiability" was supposed to be the hallmark of Western "open" societies, as opposed to the totalitarian ones that were unable to generate a hypothesis that could disprove their worldview.

Neoconservative neoliberalism, which cannot handle the basic science of climate change nor the bankruptcy of its austerian economic orthodoxy, let alone the implications of its militarism, is as totalitarian as any Medieval dynasty. And like the Carolingians and Byzantium, it is headed for the dust bin.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 6 2014 18:54 utc | 59

Mobilization in Ukraine failed. There are operating Blackwater and other mercenary organizations
Recruitment offices in Ukraine are planning to use social networks to deal with the record low turnout of recruits in order to bring the troops in full combat readiness, RIA "Novosti" a senior source in the National Security and Defense Council. "Agenda with a demand to come in Sunday, March 2, the local draft boards have received only 10% of all persons liable for military service of the country. Moreover, follow this order, only a third of reservists citizens who agenda were still awarded," - he said.

Earlier it was reported that the turnout in the Ukrainian military draft on the first day of general mobilization has not exceeded 1.5% of assigned staff, and phone calls to home phones for military service did not bring results.

As previously reported, the Verkhovna Rada appointed Acting President of Ukraine Oleksandr Turchynov said that Ukrainian troops are on high alert.

But in Ukraine poyavlyutsya foreign fighters privat armies - mercenaries, ready for the money to do whatever their superiors.

Here is the latest news:
"According to our Ukrainian friends from the night on March 2 and Juliani Borispol charter flights began arriving strong young men in ordinary civilian clothes - but each with several bulky bags field. In which the U.S. Army typically carry sets of equipment.
Strange way all these people are employed by private military company "Greystone Limited" - daughter of the famous "Xe Services LLC" - former " Blackwater USA ". Just arrived already up to 300 people.

Objectives of these strong - and well-trained guys - can be very different from the protection of the new government of hundreds of self-defense "Evromaydana" sweeps reluctant to cities in the East and South-East of Ukraine.
The only question is how many of them eventually rally in Kiev - and who pays for this spectacular feast is not cheap.
Certainly not the upstart "Ukrainian government, I believe," writes blogger stbcaptain.

This means that the fight against the Russian Ukrainians do not want and will not!
And this - the best proof that the people are united!

But against the Russian and Ukrainians themselves against already thrown well trained mercenaries from different countries, mostly white people, to the citizens of Kiev could not immediately suspect them strangers.

They are not capable of carrying out major battles, but perfectly prepared to sabotage (explosions, acts of terrorism, arson, snipers, etc., etc.).
These "wild geese," as they were called in the period of their active work in Africa, now arrived on the Ukrainian land.
300 soldiers - not the army. But they are trained special operations. And everyone is able to act alone.

When the direct and immediate self-proclaimed Ukrainian government connivance and direct and immediate intervention in this adventure of the U.S. Embassy, ​​headed by Ambassador personally - these saboteurs in the near future a threat key objects life of Ukraine.

"He who has ears, let him hear, who have eyes, but see" that gets up the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine!

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 6 2014 18:55 utc | 60

bahahaha latest is:

"Obama and EU: Crimea referendum would violate international law "

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6 2014 18:56 utc | 61

Russia Adds Upgraded Warplanes to Armenian Base
Russia announced on Tuesday the deployment of newly modernized warplanes at its military base in Armenia that has already been reinforced with more sophisticated weaponry in recent years.

The Russian Armed Forces’ Southern Military District said in a statement that “a batch of fourth-generation multipurpose MiG-29 fighter jets” has arrived at a military airport in Yerevan after undergoing “capital repairs.”

The Russian base, which uses the Erebuni airport together with the Armenian Air Force, was known to have 16 MiG-29s until now. The statement did not specify whether the Russian military has increased their number or simply upgraded some of the existing jets. A spokesman for Armenia’s Defense Ministry declined to clarify that, referring all inquiries to the Russians...

The Russian military also plans to beef up the base with around two dozen combat helicopters later this year. It said in January that they will have “a wide range of tasks in aviation support for troops and transportation of personnel.”

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 6 2014 18:58 utc | 62

Noirette, That's really bad news for Egypt.
Reminds me of the beginning of the 2009 crash

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 18:59 utc | 63

@53 I just had to comment at that page. Tatar extremists are naive to trust the Turkish foreign ministry to keep such a loft promise, but given public dissatisfaction with the Erdogan government, I have to wonder what the Turks would really do.

Posted by: Jon Lester | Mar 6 2014 19:02 utc | 64

Europeans should look at the U.S.'s move to sanction Russia as a threat to their recovering economy and an affront to the sacrifices they have had to make to achieve this snail's pace recovery. All the hard work and fiscal sacrifice will have been for nothing! Americans' irresponsible and selfish behavior in this stand-off against Russia will affect Europeans more than anyone else.

The EU is headed for disaster if it goes along with U.S. sanctions against Russia.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 6 2014 19:24 utc | 65

To Okie: I apologise if I used the word socialism in an incorrect manner. You were right to bring it to my attention. I am as guilty as others of using words imprecisely. What I meant was that the unelected dictators of EU are destroying Europe and the US is helping them. Ukraine is just the latest example, although as a general principle, if the US can damage Russia and the EU that is win/win for them.

To Mina: Your analysis is right on as far as I am concerned. I don't pretend or excuse any actions of Wall Street directed towards anyone or any country. The primary impulses behind most US policies (and always when bullying weaker opponents) are to further their own political power in the world and further increase the economic bottom lines of the "oligarchs" who control the politicians. The banks and Wall Street are tools of those who wield power behind the scenes, while at the same time bankers always take advantage of every economic opportunity that comes their way, legal or otherwise to line their own greedy pockets. On a worldwide political scale, there are very few unintentional actions. I applaud Mr. Putin's strategy of gaining Crimea while avoiding direct confrontation with the US. MS. Nuland, when she said F$$k the EU, should more properly have said F$$k everyone in the world who stands in our way.

The stupid Americans and their stupid politicians (i.e Clinton, Obama, etc.) may well have jumped into Ukraine quicksand, but $1-billion is peanuts. On the other hand, if the EU, really pledges $10-billion or more to the "current" fascist leaders of Ukraine, they are the real dupes. Hopefully they are not so gullible. The ones laughing hardest at present are those who ultimately pledge allegiance to no flag. Nationalism is just another weapon used to destabilise and weaken humanity.

Posted by: TicoTiger | Mar 6 2014 19:26 utc | 66

Fun of globalized media: The Independent

Ukraine crisis: One person’s saviour is another person’s conqueror

The images in Russian minds are those of the pogroms and general lawlessness that Ukraine suffered before and after the First World War

On Ukraine, as I swiftly learnt by contributing to both Western and Russian programmes broadcast from London over the past couple of weeks, the twain do not meet. Indeed, they have been spinning apart since the violence in Kiev of 20 February. To me, this is one of the most disturbing aspects of the Ukraine conflict.


There may indeed have been, and continue to be, disinformation, but the two versions can also be explained by the quite different places from which East and West start in their view of Ukraine – and which are combined, uneasily, in Ukraine itself.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 19:27 utc | 67

Something changed.

CNN: Reign in Ukraine's Neo-Fascists

Editor's note: David C. Speedie is senior fellow director for the U.S. Global Engagement Program at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, an educational, nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that produces lectures, publications and multimedia materials on the ethical challenges of living in a globalized world.


Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 19:33 utc | 68

FYI - I think Mr. Pragma was asking about sniper ammunition.

Incidentally, German TV stations report this morning that the sniper ammunition that killed the demonstrators on Maidan square has turned out to be the same ammunition that killed the policemen on the square. Suspicions that the right-wing factions in the new Kiev government 'may have had a hand' in the shootings are openly voiced. We take this as a sign that there are factions in the EU's power elite that are trying to find a way of distancing themselves from Kiev, at least a little bit, by creating a backdoor that can be used as necessary. They probably want to avoid having their hand forced.

Posted by: sam s | Mar 6 2014 19:44 utc | 69

The Nation: The Dark Side of Ukraine's Revolt

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6 2014 19:45 utc | 70

Henry Kissinger, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)

Kissinger lies when he writes that Ukraine should function as a bridge between East and West. That is not an option for Ukraine. You don't have to live in India or Africa to understand that when elephants fight the grass gets hurt. Neutrality is not a viable option. Ukraine had to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea. Ukraine chose foolishly. The deep blue sea kills, but the devil also destroys the soul, which is far worse.

Kissinger lies when he writes that Ukranians are the decisive element. They are bit players. Their status is exacerbated by their lack of unity, but unity will not alter the fact that they are bit players.

Kissinger lies when he writes that "the root of the problem lies in efforts by Ukrainian politicians to impose their will on recalcitrant parts of the country..." The root of the problem is meddling by outsiders who have more guns and money than brains.

Kissinger lies when he writes that "a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War." As if the Cold War ever ended. The Cold War will not end until either Russia is broken up or the West stops trying to break up Russia. Kissinger knows this perfectly well, and for that matter so does Putin.

Kissinger lies when he writes that "It is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea." In the first place there is no world order. If there was, hot and cold conflicts would not exist on five continents. As for the operating version of the so-called rules, there is a single rule that Nuland summarized candidly.

Kissinger is a lying murderous asshole who should have been locked up long ago for war crimes. His lies should not be amplified by anyone.

Posted by: SingingSam | Mar 6 2014 20:10 utc | 71

It seems obvious to me that, as reasonable as kissingers words might sound otherwise, any future ukraine zeu association is a pipe dream.
Funnily not even because of Putins preferences but simply because zeu is increasingly recognizable as a) but a widely remote controlled zato entity and b) criminal and *obviously* wishing to plunder, rob, and break ukraine.

On another and independent but ukraine centered note I wanted to look closer at two aspects, namely the Crimea joker and Germanies probably way deeper involvement in very dirty endeavours.

First the Crimea joker.

I still stand by what I said earlier that is, that Putin quite certainly prefers a complete ukraine country.
On the other hand Crimea increased pressure in their intention to join Russia. One reason, as b already pointed out, obviously is to increase pressure and to cut the time frame shorter for kiev.

On the other hand, however, I'am convinced, it's also to be(come) an even more powerful joker for Putin as of all parties somehow involved only he/Russia have the power to convince Crimea to reconsider (and stay within ukraine).

From what I can see and reasonably assume, the issue has already been discretely settled between Putin and Crimea. It's sth. along the line of Crimea staying (if any possible) with ukraine but getting even more autonomy so as to be a ukrainian region in not much but name.

Now to Germany, possibly the spicier point today.

timochenko bitch was treated (in ukraine) by one of the leading guys from Charite, which seems to be the central university hospital in Berlin.
And right now a scandal is brewing about that very Charite because they have been found to have stashed 40 Mio zeuro (a hefty amount compared to their annual budgets in the 150 Mio zeuro region) away in secret accounts since years.

But there is more re. medicine and Germany. As it seems, the german military has planned to engage in a humanitarian mission in ukraine. They want to fly there with some kind of mil. transporter in order to fly out "persons wounded on maidan". I joke you not.

So, beginning a year or so ago, merkel begins what now becomes visible as a coordinated "medical" line by sending one of the chief guys from Berlins largest and most reputable hospital to treat merkels friend timochenko. Later merkel, for at least in a major part using some foundation of her party, finances Mr. "I got my brains crunched" klitchko on a mission that turns out to please zusa, zeu, and frees her friend timochenko.
And now we learn, that that very charite has black budgets since years and that merkel feels to have one more ace up her sleeve, a "humanitarian mission" to maidan. Guess, whom she will have flown out for treatment in Germany ...

But there is one more line. At the same time Germanys vice-chancellor and minister of economy and trade Gabriel (within a coalition of the conservatives (merkel) and the "left" party (gabriel) and, that seems noteworthy, a coalition that seems to have enough power to even change the german basic law) is in Moscow for "secret talks".
To fully understand one must know that gabriel is from the same left party as former chancellor schroeder was, a known Putin friend, high ranking Gazprom advisor, and manager of north stream.

My - possibly terribly wrong - interpretation is the following:

merkels party anyway and probably she herself, too, are known to be blind followers of the transatlantic religion with zusa being their god. *Evidently* merkel is deeply involved in very bad, ciminal and ugly things regarding ukraine.

At the same time, Russia was having quite friendly feelings toward Germany and, so it seems, planning to have Germany as one, possibly the, centerpiece of their european ambitions. And indeed this would quite nicely meet the needs of bot countries. To say it less nicely: zusa crumbling and Germany being hated in zeu (for arrogance, for money, and for merciless austerity demands) Russia is pretty much unconditionally vital for Germanies survival.

While Putin took many dirty hits from merkel patiently, this time she is, lets be clear about that, attacking Russias immediate security interests.

Looking at this whole mess it's also interesting to note that while merkels party got the largest share of votes - but considerably less than 50% - a closer look shows that German, at least many of them, actually voted red/green/dark red - and not black/red.

In other words: I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some leaks came up, showing merkel involved quite directly in quite criminal things and new elections came to be necessary, which the gabriel (and steinmeier) party together with dark red and green would win and if that new government chose a way more Russia friendly path ...

Again, I might be terribly completely wrong but life tought me that a series of coincidences probably is no coincidence. And that Putin has forgotten more about chess than merkel and obama could possibly learn.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 20:11 utc | 72

I wonder if the fact Le Monde has refrained from a Live thread today and tries not to follow the hysteria is because they feel France might be the target of the next colour revolution?
Elections in 2 weeks and many are afraid the extreme-right will be really high.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 20:12 utc | 73

sam s (68)

Thanks but this is already known. I was wondering about concrete data like caliber, sniper or standard issue, where it was produced, etc.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 20:13 utc | 74

How compassionate!
20:02: The US is considering how to use its natural gas resources to ease European reluctance to enact sanctions over the Ukraine crisis, deputy secretary of state William Burns tells a Senate committee (Reuters). Russia provides a quarter of Europe's natural gas, half of it through Ukraine.(bbs)
And no one will be able to object to shale gas anymore! Poland is delighted...

Posted by: Mina | Mar 6 2014 20:16 utc | 75

Most people find it counterintuitive and hard to accept but zionists are extremely comfortable with neo-nazis such as those in Svoboda.

At the most basic level this is because they agree that Ukraine is no place for Jews. It is the sort of thinking that explains the long history of co-operation between the Nazis and zionists, particularly the Jabotinskyites, such as Netanyahu, who also have it in common with the Nazis that they too are fascists.

This doesn't just mean that they admire the same sort of leather gear and symbols and both see the world as being divided into herrenvolk and untermenschen but that they practise politics in the same way.

As the CNN piece (see somebody's link @67) indicates the European Parliament see things rather differently and the majority of MEPs either regard fascists with disdain or pretend to do so. It is an attitude probably shared by the EU's leaders, with the exception of, for example, Catherine Ashton who is a Blairite and therefore a neo-con and an ultra-zionist.
But the EU's leadership aren't calling the shots in Kiev. That is being done, as events indicate, by a much cruder bunch who find the idea of handing over the Police ministry and the Defence Portfolio to a pair of fascists, whose party has virtually no support outside of Galicia and is a small minority there, as being perfectly acceptable.

It is interesting to note that any investigation of the sniping by the new US approved "government" is going to be carried out by the Public Prosecutor's office-which is held by a Svoboda fascist.
These are the US policymakers, all of them deep dyed zionists and neo-cons, who sponsor the legatees of those who fed the ovens in Auschwitz with no more qualms than an earlier generation of zionists welcomed Adolf Eichmann to Palestine.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 6 2014 20:26 utc | 76

The penultimate paragraph, in the post above, was inserted, erroneously before the final one. It was intended to be a note added.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 6 2014 20:29 utc | 77

Tico Tiger 65, $1 billion won't go far in Ukraine, but it would feed a lot of hungry Americans.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 20:30 utc | 78

Nora (77)

You mean, it would balance at least a tiny part of the brutal cuts made in welfare so as to allow large political dono ...uh, ... corporations to keep their billions untaxed?

Oh well, zusa, the mother of mercy and social justice!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 20:34 utc | 79

I hope the 'Merkel-Theory' of Mr.Pragma turns out to be true.
The Germans, although I don't have much sympathy for them, deserve better than 'SchweinefreSSe -Mutti'.

Posted by: Sufi | Mar 6 2014 20:38 utc | 80

"I still stand by what I said earlier that is, that Putin quite certainly prefers a complete ukraine ..."

I agree. It seems obvious that the main beneficiaries, electorally, of Crimean separation would be the western anti-Russian parties. The fewer Russian speakers and Ukrainian Communist supporters there are left in the country the better placed they will be.
From Russia's point of view maintaining Ukraine as presently constituted makes political sense. But not if, as seems very possible, the new state is going to be a neo-nazi dictatorship in which elected assemblies exist in the shadow of murderous thugs with concentration camps to fill.
So long as Ukraine is run by the current gang of bikers and filibusters, not only will Crimeans and others "want out" so will the Russians wish to insulate their critical naval base from the new iconoclasts and their foreign adventuring friends.
Who knows what statues and war memorials in Crimea or Odessa the Galicians want to demolish next?

Posted by: bevin | Mar 6 2014 20:42 utc | 81

Worse yet, Mr. Pragma: even if the Democrats were willing, the Republicans would NEVER go along with "takers" getting "more" of anything other than cuts in their already-meager benefits. Actually, I take that back: more unearned opprobrium is always ok.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 20:49 utc | 82

While I try hard to understand how Putin ticks and probably don fail too badly in that and while I consider to be THE country leader and statesmen, hands down ...

I should also be honest and openly state that, in my minds eye, he loses time - during which more harm will be created by zusa/zeu/zato.

I personally think that it would be smarter and better to destroy all zusa/zato ships in the black sea and to openly declare that any and all ships brought by zusa/zato into troubled areas (Syria, iran, ...) or staying there will be destroyed, too, unless they leave within 24 hrs.
At the same time I would declare that Russia has no intentions whatsoever to attack zusa proper.

Yes this is aggressive - but so is zusa. And more importantly, it has been shown again and again that there is only one language zusa understands, namely a hefty punch right in their visage.

In the end it will come down to war anyway. And in the end zusa has no chance, nada, zilch, zero to win that war. So why not bringing it to and end right now? Why should more people in more countries suffer because zamerican scum isn't willing to behave even modestly adequately?

It's simple. Sink 2 or 3 zusa carrier groups and zusa is weakened enough - and shown to be big mouths - to sail home and this world has a chance to become a decent place.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 20:55 utc | 83

Correction: Obviously it should be

... and while I consider him to be THE country leader ...

Sorry. Yes, it's time to buy a new keyboard (and maybe a fresh brain *g)

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 20:58 utc | 84

Mina, my neighbors who have declared for years, "Zarkozy est mon champion." have turned to NF, as far as I can tell all of them. This election is going to be a wake-up-call for France, Europe - and, the rest of the world to varying degrees. If Marine wins big, I'm at least hoping she will destroy the EZ. Certainly she is a dangerous character in ways my neighbors don't understand, but I don't know anyone who wants to stay with the EZ, except a couple of economists in Paris.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 6 2014 21:08 utc | 85


I strongly doubt that M. Le Pen is a more dangerous character than zarkozy or hollande.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 21:13 utc | 86

"...I personally think that it would be smarter and better to destroy all zusa/zato ships in the black sea and to openly declare that any and all ships brought by zusa/zato into troubled areas (Syria, iran, ...) or staying there will be destroyed, too, unless they leave within 24 hrs..."

I don't think that would be a very good idea Mr Pragma, although it would accord very much with what the neo-cons, the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex generally like to think that they want.

I see your point: this interminable series of vague threats, punctuated by vicious and extraordinarily violent attacks on undefended targets, is rather wearing, but that is no reason to bring the world an inch closer to the war of extinction that a nuclear conflict could be.

Recently published British documents showed that the idiotic adventurism of NATO war games in the 1980s almost led on at least one occasion to triggering war. It could easily happen again, given the imbalance of forces and the enormous number of extremely stupid people to be found in military high commands, not to mention the brainwashed fools running governments.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 6 2014 21:16 utc | 87

Mr. Pragma, you continue to crack me up. I'm laughing but I think you are right. Exactemant.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 6 2014 21:30 utc | 88

An anonymous commenter at Saker, referring to:, offers the following quote:

"Wednesday, a bill was introduced into the Ukrainian parliament that includes revisiting Ukraine’s status as a neutral state and reconsidering whether the country should join NATO."

Anyone wonder whether Obama will find those decisions within the confines of international law?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 21:37 utc | 89

Let me re-post that URL without the last comma: sigh

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6 2014 21:38 utc | 90

bevin (86)

An idea is good or not, and a way to handle a situation is good or not - and it's not good nor bad beause it happens to match what this or that group wishes or not.

That's one important point to get into peoples mind who have been way too infested with party logics.

In the end it's simple.

There is a cancer. And it has been spreading. Now, we can be sure that this is going to die, simply because zusa was too much engaged in PR and largely ignoring reality - and their people! - and has indulged too much in self-delusions.
Now, zusa is in all but name worse than bankrupt, it's economic basis has been largely outsourced for a quick accounting pseudo-plus, and it's military is worn out and largely worthless, up to the point that it an not even clearly win against a third rate opponent.

What is also clear is that zusa has decided to continue it's policy of lawlessness, brutality, violence and terror.

Accordingly and obviously the right thing to do is to cripple their tool, the military, so as to force them to look for other ways of policy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm *not* favouring telling zusa what to do in their own country. They should be free to do whatever pleases them with in the boundaries of zusa.

If a rapid dog is roaming your neighbourhood you shot him, simple as that. And the earlier the better.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 21:55 utc | 91

Uhm ... rapid? rabid? Well, agressive and foam around the snout, that's what I mean.
Apologies for my lousy english.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 22:05 utc | 92

Where are the FEMEN in all of this ?
Aren't they being paid by some rich European or one of them is the daughter of Mikhail Gutsol (spelling)?

Posted by: Yul | Mar 6 2014 22:07 utc | 93

@82 Mr.Pragma,I see too in Pres.Putin the man who can bring the world out of the jungle that zusa and zionists have created and I see this since he rose to power.But I have been baffled by russians attitude these last years especially since the war on Syria started.The idea that there can be a "reset"with zusa is incredibly naive as Syria's tragedy has proven,I think the core of the problem lays within the russian Foreign ministry establishment and the new oligarchs.You can't deal with the Beast like you are dealing with a fellow friend.Lines have to be drawn and quickly ,this is the last chance for the billions on this planet who have suffered unremittingly from Western and zionists atrocities on all continents.The world is watching Russia now and if the mood in Moscow goes back to posturing as with Geneva 1 and 2(Syria)in Ukraine then I sadly think things will get out of control and cost humanity seas of blood.Though I am completely sure that when push comes to shove Russia and its allies,from its most formidable to its smaller,from China to Hezbollah, will win.

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 6 2014 22:14 utc | 94

I like reading your posts Mr. P but the war talk baffles me. Surely the next war will go nuclear pretty fast. Nobody (pun intended)can be happy with that.

Posted by: dh | Mar 6 2014 22:22 utc | 95

as regards Crimea...its too late..and no the neonazis wont change...and dont blame Putin: what we see is the will of the ukrainians backed and aided by the US war machine or the free will of the anti facist crimeans

why are political mandarins wiser out of office than in?

Posted by: brian | Mar 6 2014 22:31 utc | 96

Obama and EU: Crimea referendum would violate international law "

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 6, 2014 1:56:20 PM | 60

rubbish, Obama and EU functionaries: it does not. It allows the expression of the will of the people, which the COUP did not

Posted by: brian | Mar 6 2014 22:32 utc | 97

Well, let's see, what has the war criminal US got to stir up the "fake" left in America/West so they can feel great about Putin bashing?

Anti-Olympic/anti-anti-gay rants meant to embarrass Putin since December. BOO HISSS!!! Check.

Freed psyop agents Pussy Riot fresh from an Amnesty concert in Feb in NY now involved in more altercations. How shocking! Check.

Fake RT journos who are seemingly sympathetic to some of the left's viewpoints - e.g, 9/11 truth - publicly pulling up stakes and standing by the US government. You go girls!!! Check.

What's next? As someone noted, where's FEMEN? Show us your tits, psyop girls!! You missed Mardi Gras, ffs!!

Wait...are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Yup, it's time for something Snowden!!!! AWWWHHHYEAAAAH!!!!!

His death? Disappearance? What would be a great narrative to further demonize Putin? How can the US intel salvage THAT anti-Putin failed psyop operation?

See, unlike some, I think that the Russia portion of the Snowden saga was ALSO meant to be part of this whole "coincidentally" timed psyop parade but his mission there - smelled out by Putin et al - was nipped in the bud. Who knows maybe time will prove me incorrect but I think the US not allowing him to leave Russia and come to the Western (read: crawling with CIA etc) hemisphere was the tell.

In either case, I just can't wait to see what tomorrow's news/propaganda cycle brings to make the fake left even more outraged.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 6 2014 22:34 utc | 98

Posted by: Nora | Mar 6, 2014 1:45:52 PM | 55

Pussy riot : the new SS: seductive and seditious

Posted by: brian | Mar 6 2014 22:35 utc | 99

Posted by: somebody | Mar 6, 2014 2:45:27 PM | 69

was there ever a bright side?

Posted by: brian | Mar 6 2014 22:36 utc | 100

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