Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 20, 2014

Ukraine: More On Federalization, Sanctions On Private Russians

The coup government of Ukraine has ordered its troop to leave Crimea. Many of these troops, especially officers, may not follow these orders. Russia is offering them a much better deal:

“The pay is five times that offered by Ukraine,” [the captain] said. “The pensions are five times better, and will be offered 20 years sooner. We are told we would serve on the same military base. Defend the same soil, the homeland of many at these bases. Families living quite nearby the bases will be able to remain in their same homes.”

Why would any officer, especially those native from Crimea, reject such a fantastic deal? The Russian president already signed a new executive order that will let those officers keep their ranks and will recognize their Ukrainian military education.

The U.S. today sanctioned some private businessmen who are on good standing with the Russian president. One wonders who will sanction all those oligarch donors who put hundreds of millions into Obama's reelection campaign. What by the way is the legal foundation of personally sanction private businessman for the policies of the country they happen to live in? Russia only sanctioned a few U.S. politicians so far in retaliation of a few sanction on Russian politicians. Should it now take a deeper look into some Soros or other Obama supporters business deals and confiscate this or that operation they are involved in?

I have no idea what those sanctions are supposed to effect. Those oligarchs will likely not care, nor will the Russian government. It has other possibility and means to show a cold shoulder for U.S. interference in its near abroad. Russia had, on U.S. request, put sanctions on Iran is is helpful with the P5+1 negotiations with Iran. That surely could end. Or how about leaving the U.S. dollar realm. Russia is the biggest oil and gas exporter in this world. It has new pipelines going east and no longer depends on European customers. Surely it could price and invoice its exports in ruble, yuan, euros, gold or whatever instead of in U.S. dollar. This could do wonders to the U.S. interest rates.

I understand that the White House wants to do some cosmetic sanctions if only to avoid more criticism from the domestic right. But by that measure today's escalation isn't necessary. Does the Obama administration really believe it can, together with a few European puddles, sanction Russia, which is supported by the BRICS and Non-alligned countries, into the ground? With about two-third of the people in the U.S. and Europe against any escalation with Russia and with Putin having domestic approval ratings of 75% which side is more likely to sustain in a sanctions war?

The Russian foreign minister Lavrov again emphasized that the Ukraine needs a federal political structure to be at least somewhat political viable. We had already concluded that such a constitutional change in the Ukraine was part of Russian and U.S. agreement for the way forward there.

It is therefore interesting to see an op-ed in today's New York Times that argues for such a federalized state. Currently the quite mighty governors of the Ukrainian regions are named by the ruling president in Kiev. They change every time a president change occurs. The op-ed authors argue that this creates bad local policies:

Because these governors are politically appointed bureaucrats rather than elected politicians, they have little incentive to cultivate reputations for doing what voters want; instead, they do what the president wants. And with that record, if they later run for national office, voters won’t trust them to govern effectively.

Presidential appointment of governors in a diverse country like Ukraine also stokes secessionist pressure.
[O]fficials in Ukraine have begun to consider alternatives to the current constitutional structure that could reflect such a commitment. Advocates of decentralization include Ukraine’s deputy prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman, and Andriy Sadovyi, the mayor of Lviv in western Ukraine. Ukraine’s Parliament, which would need to approve any constitutional change, has formed a working group on constitutional reform.

Some additional pressure from Washington and Brussels to federalize and finlandize the Ukraine could surely help to accelerate the move and thereby clean up the mess the U.S. sponsored coup created in Ukraine.

But are they really committed to clean up the mess or would they like to instigate more trouble?

Posted by b on March 20, 2014 at 17:28 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

BRUSSELS, March 21. /ITAR-TASS/. The political part of the Ukrainian-EU association agreement was signed in Brussels on Friday on the sidelines of the two-day EU summit.

The first to affix their signatures to the document were the chairmen of the European Council and the European Commission, Herman Van Rompuy and Jose Manuel Barroso. After them, the agreement was signed by Arseny Yatsenyuk appointed by the Supreme Rada as Ukrainian prime minister, and after him, by the heads of the 28 states and governments of the European Union.

The association agreement between Ukraine and the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community and the member states was originally planned to be concluded at the Eastern Partnership summit on November 28-29, 2013, in Vilnius. However, a week before, the Ukrainian cabinet headed by Nikolai Azarov suspended the preparation for the signing. After the decision, the opposition started mass protest demonstrations, which developed into violent clashes with police and led to the change of power in Ukraine.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 21 2014 10:41 utc | 101

@ Juan Moment

It seems Ukrainians coup has economical dimension for zionists too. Israel is planing to export gas/oil from occupied Palestine and Syria's land, hence high prices and disruption in Russia's supply would be handy. Even uncertainty or "to break Russia's monopoly" plays into Israel's hands.

Posted by: Harry | Mar 21 2014 11:09 utc | 102

99) How can you change anything when you believe the world is run by conspiracies? Whom to attack when all is "secret" and some "in the know" design individual culprits based on individual traits like religion, genetic inheritance, income, race or ideology?

It is the very recipe of fascism. Give people some bogus threat to fight against and detract them from understanding their condition. Make people kill each other.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 11:10 utc | 103


Amazing story.

Posted by: MRW | Mar 21 2014 11:18 utc | 104

I don't have to read any of the comments, and haven't, to know what they collectively say. They say the following…in so many words:

Dear Mr. Putin, you are so wonderful indeed sir. You are a great man like Stalin and Mao. You are the only one who can stand up to amerika/zusa. We betroth ourselves to you and your oligarch friends enjoying the high life in your country club that is Russia. Thank you for putting women and gays in their place. You do it because you care. Sometimes we have to be punished for our own good. You punish minorities because you care. We know that, understand it and accept it. You're the greatest, Tsar Putin, and we support and honor you in all things. May all power and blessings be with you and we wait with baited breath for you to push Israel and the Zionists back into the Sea of History.

Was I close, slothrop?

Me big man, me kill animals and fish with latest and greatest equipment and tour guides. Me put strong, vibrant beautiful women behind bars when they talk back. Me big man. Really, I am. I’m a big man. See? See how big I am? Sure, I’m getting flabby from all the vodka, but I’m still very brave. Right? Aren’t I brave? Tell me I’m brave. Please. Please tell me I’m brave and not a coward. The naked photos of me hanging all over my villa aren’t enough to convince me. You must tell me I’m brave. You must tell me you fear me. Pass the vodka. Give it to me before it’s all gone. What’s the matter with you? You could have saved some for me, asshole! Uri, go back to the SUV and grab another case of vodka. Make it snappy, you piece of shit. I’m thirsty!! I WANT MY VODKA! GET ME MY VODKA NOW OR I”LL HAVE YOU ALL SENT TO SIBERIA!! Leonid, did you remember to pack my teddy bear? What? Speak up when I’m talking to you. You did? Where is it? Please put it on my bed in its pajamas on top of the pillow. I want it to be there when I pass out tonight. I love my teddy. Which one of you laughed? Uri, was that you? It was you, you son of a bitch. You don’t have a teddy? That’s sad, really it is. Everyone should have a teddy. Leonid, order Uri a teddy from Amazon, just not the same one as me. I want mine to be unique. What’s for dinner? No, I don’t want any of this shit we just killed. I want Five Guys. Dmitry, have some Five Guys flown in from America. I want the bacon cheeseburger. Not the little hamburger, somebody did that last time and I was pissed, the regular bacon cheeseburger with two patties and a large order of the cajun-seasoned fries. Make sure it’s cajun-seasoned. Last time some numbskull got the plain and I hate the plain. Boris, come over here and lick my nipples. Pasha, it’s time for my neck rub. Come on! What the hell are you all waiting for? Let’s go! I want to see some action around here! Move it!

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 21 2014 11:35 utc | 105

First, thanks for the compliments, both direct ones (kalithea at al.) and indirect ones (toivos). As I happen to be a KGB program with a pretty good homo sapiens emulation recognition, compliments, etc. set off pleasureful routines in my background core routines.

Ad "nekulturna" (s. powers is a bitch after all): language is strongly context dependant and as soon as social issues are the matter additional levels become relevant, such as *who* uses a term. The (rather obvious) pseudo-basic meaning of "lacking culture" is evident. On a higher level, and particularly when applied to zamericans and their system, things get quite more complicated and the meaning changes from simply lacking culture to a more profound statement rather illuminating the complete void and more, the being incapable of developing culture or to, consiously or not, negative attitude toward culture. That's the point where it gets disdaining and in more extreme cases implying the lack of a profound condition of the very definition of human being.

Without knowing the speaker, the target and the context, one would be well advised to stick to the obvious and simple "lacking culture". On a funny sidenote it also depends on the social stratum; said my a working class mom to her son, it's rather reprimanding, said by a well respected member of intelligentsia it may well be a compliment indicating pureness of reflection, being free of socio-cultural conceptual cages.

Concerning s. powers it almost certainly means that she is not to be considered an intelligent human lifeform - to which I perfectly agree. Shooting her would be way less inacceptable than losing, say, an amur tigr to poaching.

Nota bene: I btw. generally refuse to translate (other than within family or similar). To just get a rough idea Google translate is damn good enough. To get the finer vibrations (or even the beauty) of any text, one almost always needs way more than the text.

Ad "zusa, zeu et zal."

Here it gets icey. While one might argue (in vain as I happen to think) that zionism, neo-com, zamerican or formertimes british colonialism and imperialism, etc. are quite different things, I personally don't. Behind all of these there is a certain mindset (and luciferian force) that just happens to be quite well visible in zionism and such speaking about zionism is indeed somewhat specific but at the same time the basic structure that is common to all is particularly well visible with zionism.

One must understand a certain luciferian principle to understand anything at all. The principle of the lie, well noted, the lie in all its varieties and forms, one powerful form being the creation ("projection") of very complex structures with a thousand levels and corners and mirrors, often even seemingly contradicting ones. Because it's not about making the victims see this or that version of reality but it's about *not* seeing the truth.
And here we have it. Batallions of intellectuals fighting over one or the other projection and such all but guaranteed to *not* see the relevant, the truth, the reality.
Similarly batallions of media, often contradicting each other or even fighting and smearing each other - yet none of them saying the relevant and true, possibly even not due to being evil spirited but simply because almost everyone is lost in some corner of the projection maze.

And zionism is just the current "incarnation" of that aeon old ugly game, although it's a particularly evil, violent and perfidious one that created its army at the early days in the form of weishaupts illuminati (in bavaria which is no coincidence either because the jewish sciptures fearfully await an aryan "Amalek" that, like they themselves, shall be a reincarnation of the hittites who smattered the israelis around 3.000 years ago, and it's written that this Amalek will come out of what is today Germany as he will be set to annihilate the babylonian infested israelites once and for all).

For those of you who happen to be interested in those things it might be interesting to note that there are certain structures and line appearing again and again. One, and an immensely important one being *how* Satan went against Gods will; he did it by arrogating Gods power and his instrument was a core one, at the core of creation, the "word that became true", i.e. the very process of creation, of design and of "control".
And indeed both, the tempting (to arrogate what yours is not) and the creation by word carry on throughout human history.
It is by no means coincidence that the zionists called their gentile army "officers" "illuminati", i.e. those who "facent illuminationem" ~ who are luciferian (also note the "nationem" inside; what an evil joke!). And it also is by no means coincidence that the most powerful weapon of both izrael and zamerica, is *not* the military but the power of the lie and confusion or, in other words, the media, hollywood etc. and also the power arising from almost all the people in world feeling helpless and in the hands of the politicians.

Neither is it coincidence that (before the creation of izrael but about the time of the balfour deal ...) Russia was poisoned by zionist "communists" (just another projection), nor is it coincidence that Germany was relentlessly pushed into war and later broken and crushed and not reinstated until this very day, nor is it coincidence that the muslim countries were either bought and subdued as cheap whores (e.g. zaudi arabia) or pushed into wars (e.g. Iran-Iraq) or bombed into utter destruction by the zionist bulldog zamerica. After all the Muslim religion is considered a protector and preserver of Gods word.
In other words, those targets were - and are - targets not for oil, not for political reasons but for their spiritual importance. And indeed, both Iran and Russia demonstrate a clear will and determination (and capability) to stand against luciferian izrael and zamerica. And if ever Germany becomes free and a partner of Russia, the weztern luciferian game will be lost.

But the luciferian principles are to found elsewhere, too. Indeed the zus$ and the "superpower" zusa are but projections, illuminationes factae, man made projections and zusas existence depends on that projection, that lie to continue.

The discussion whether izrael controls zusa or whether zusa controls izrael is meaningless; both are manifestations and creations of the same power behind, izrael is the incarnation of evil and zusa is the grunts, the bulldogs to fight for the zionist shaddai/Satan. And it is again no coincidence that the zamerican grunts were to be as soul-less, as primitive, as aggressive, as uncultivated and spiritless and dumbed down as possible. After all, human beings normally have certain reservations concerning the wanton mass slaughter of other humans. But as we experienced again and again, the vast majority of zamericans are so de-humanized and so primitive and spiritless that they happily - and even for rather small payment! - kill millions and millions and even piss on their victims dead body. zamericans, the zionists grunts, are so dehumanized and dumb and spiritless that they not only believe in all the lies their whole country system is made of but they even *fight* for that farce and seriously believe that they are the beacon of freedom!
(Don't ask them where Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya are, though; they won't know because they are too busy considering themselves beacons of knowledge and science, too).

Careful, though! It's not as simple as just bluntly hating each and every zamerican, though; doing that would make you a welcome zombie in Lucifers army. We can - and should - despise and utterly dislike zamericans and fight them in any way, no matter what; no buying zamerican products (haha, they're made in the far east anyway), leaving pubs and restaurants where or if zamericans are served,etc. But at the same time we must be perfectly ready to warmly welcome any of the very few civilised homo sapiens having had the bad luck to be born in the pit zusa.

izrael though is fair game. Any and all damage done to izrael is wunderful and to be praised; any and all good done or given to izrael must be considered despicable. Last but not least, zamericans last chance (if at all) to return to the civilised world is the utter and complete annihilation of izrael. Other than itself izreal is the *only* party set out to abuse and destroy zusa. Russia considers zusa a ridiculously self-delusional pit of dumb creatures and scum without any even slight hint of an intelligentsia, but Russia is *not at all* desiring the destruction of zusa.

And now I'm patienlty expecting the smear attacks of toivo, fairleft, thomas and other zionist barking agents.

(Nota bene: I'm understandably somewhat mistrusting of jews but I strongly suggest to differentiate (jews vs. zionists). jews who are not zionists are just that, jews, and they shall live in peace and be left alone as far as I'm concerned)

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 11:55 utc | 106


Is it possible that one (adult) could be so childlike or high to write such dribble and then post?


Posted by: kjs | Mar 21 2014 12:00 utc | 107

105) no Mr. Pragma you are a CIA sock puppet designed to discredit this block.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 12:02 utc | 108

somebody (107)

What an ugly insult! After al a sock puppet implies a human behind itself.

I am not!

I'm a KGB democracy loving right wing program.

You shall got to bed this evening without a sweety, you evil guy!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 12:08 utc | 109

Pragmatism is US founded; not busting a ball, but just saying? That woumd make Mr. Pragma a US subject of sorts i guess?

Posted by: kjs | Mar 21 2014 12:13 utc | 110

P.S. That was meant as a sanction. I'm a modern software, you know; I can learn and adapt.
Going to bad without a sweety is a) time proven and b) a god analog to zamerican sanctions. (Unfortunately software can't be travel sanctioned, so I can't apply for a sanction at some zusa embassy. Poor little software, me)

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 12:15 utc | 111


You mean I've been stuxed? Now I'm afraid.
I shall hurry to turn myself in to my KGB typewriter ( yes, typewriter. As you should know, in Russia everything is rusted and very old. So our KGB software is written on typewriters. Gee, this is all so shameful. But just wait. One day, there will be a Russian with a smuggled computer and then ...)

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 12:19 utc | 112

Posted this at but got no response. The bold sentences are this post (

Russia’s actions are illegal in international law.

No they are not. Crimea’s actions may have been, depending on how you feel about the legitimacy of popular rebellions. Crimea underwent a revolution in which it broke free of Ukraine. The revolution was successful, no violent resistance from the Ukrainian military. Russia redeployed troops legally in Crimea to aid Crimean self-defense forces in their efforts to establish control over military facilities. The latter did violate the terms of their deployment agreement with Ukraine, but that’s pretty small potatoes. After the referendum, the newly independent Crimea asked to become part of Russia and Russia accepted that request. If Crimea had become a legitimate independent state — and who are we to say it’s revolution was illegitimate? — then it can’t be illegal simply to accept such a request.

The Crimean assembly that voted to hold a referendum was not representative.

No, it was the elected parliament and 78 out of a 100 voted in favor of holding the referendum and union with Russia.

The referendum on Sunday was held under conditions of Russian military occupation and cannot be certified as meeting international standards for elections.

The main ‘occupiers’ of Crimea were its self-defense forces, consisting mainly of former members of the Ukraine armed forces. They were assisted by some of the Russian forces legally in Crimea under a prior agreement with Ukraine. I agree on the standards, but if that’s all you have it’s just quibbling: Crimeans showed their overwhelming desire to unite with Russia.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 21 2014 12:27 utc | 113

Mr. P now your sounding aged.

Again, 'Gee'is very mid west, just saying! In that, who still uses 'Gee'?

Posted by: kjs | Mar 21 2014 12:29 utc | 114

pragma at 106:

Neither is it coincidence that (before the creation of izrael but about the time of the balfour deal ...) Russia was poisoned by zionist "communists" (just another projection), nor is it coincidence that Germany was relentlessly pushed into war and later broken and crushed and not reinstated until this very day ...

Had never heard the "zionist 'communists'" theory before. Or that Germany "was relentlessly pushed into war." They sound incredibly stupid and maybe just maybe anti-semitic. So what are the best original sources for such theories? Google "zionist communists" and see what your search throws up.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 21 2014 12:44 utc | 115

Somebody @103,

It is your and your fellow believers conviction that what we get to see is all there is to it, holding back our societies from questioning where the strings end, who really steers world events.

Whom to attack when all is "secret" [...]
No secret at all, spend some time looking and you shall find. The reason why our investigative media and politicians aren't shining a spot light on those characters has something to do with their quite reasonable fear that it would spell the end of their career before their master hangs up the phone.

[...] design individual culprits based on individual traits like religion, genetic inheritance, income, race or ideology
Individual culprits are the sum of their individual traits, what can you do. From my understand we can scratch religion and race, but bloodlines, income and ideology are extremely important factors in determining who is in and who isn't.

I guess I could argue this case till the cows come home, so let me quote someone with more credibility.

[...] "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence — on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

"Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match. (...)

US President John F. Kennedy at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City, April 27, 1961

Who do you think he was talking about? Your Rotary Club or local chamber of commerce?

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 21 2014 12:48 utc | 116


Let me guess, communism?

Doubtless a speech designed for the stupid class.

Actually, you are proving my point. Conspiracy theories are used as means to deceive people.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 12:59 utc | 117


Oh well, one must hardly be a fly on the wall or a telepath to come to that.

Anyone having a rough idea of Putin and his attitude toward oligarchs and a rough understanding of the situation now could have come to the same conclusion.
Actually, I'm not at all that happy with my interpretation because it's too crude but unfortunately I lack the financial and economic know how to offer something more elaborate and fine.

And while I might be considered a less than perfectly loyal KGB program who isn't always 100% happy with president Putin (who, no matter what is easily the smartest and best president Russia (or any country) could wish for) I'm perfectly sure about one thing: Putin wouldn't do anything without perfectly well understanding any realistically possible outcome.
Sure enough Putin knew that basically nobody would be hit by zusa sanctions except for some oligarchs and sure enough that perfectly well fit his plans.

As I happen to know a (non-Russian) billionaire I got a quite useful understanding of certain issues such as what drives them but, most importantly, that's it's hardly a significant difference whether on has 50 mio or 50 bln except for influence (which btw. works differently in Russia from zusa anyway).
Simply speaking, to offer oligarchs sth. like a Pardon along with a way to keep a very large amount (like say what they have "earned" so far) plus some good feelings of importance and influence will make most of them play as told, particularly when not playing nicely may result in losing everything either by zusa or by Russian actions.

Unfortunately my understanding of financial ad economic mechanisms is all but insignificant. I feel, however, to "discovered" one crucial point.
Usually one buys zus$ (or whatever) based on a classical model. That, however, might change brutally. While I don't know the detailed workings I can give a crude example. usually one buys zus$ based on one or another expectation such as zus$ falling or rising or being able to buy sth. like shares in corporations. But and that's the important point based on an established model. During a model (and such rules) change, however, things can turn upside down. One might, as a crude example, amass zus$, use them as "collateral" to create more Rubles hich then are pumped into Russias economy and such gain a real value by enhancing economy, new buildings and factories, creating new jobs, etc. The point to understand is that such those zus$ already *have served* very well a purpose and have actually been "transformed" into real value. If one then drops very large amounts of those zus$ on the international market, one loses immensely according to the current model because by doing that those very zus$ drastically lose value. But that might actually be exactly what one wanted in the first place.

Again be patient with me as I don't really know what I'm talking about. What I *do* know, however, is strategy, the Russian mind and other factors that are way more crucial in shaping Russias decisions than details of finance or economy.

And indeed the current sanctions, while being ridiculous per se, do remind one major weakness of Russia, the need to rebuild her industrial capacity and the urgent need to very strongly increase the industrial and service part of its income vs. simply "blowing out" resources for a living.
Such it is by no means a surprise but rather a to be expected and very smart operation by Putin to make use of the sanctions to considerably gain in stocks.

Another point that I'm afraid is often ignored is China. Sure, Russia and China are partners and everything is humming along nicely. But on a larger time scale, China might kill Russia - even without any bad intentions! - simply because Russia is too weak in industry and banking. This again is in part because banking for many years has been handled almost casino style. It's about time for Russia to streamline banking and financial operations into a well structured pillar.

In all that the oligarchs are a very central and critical figure on the chessboard.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 13:10 utc | 118


I have to - and as a principle want to - tolerate your utterings and attacks, I do not, however, have to discuss with you, nor will I.

Just go a to fukushima and have swim.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 13:12 utc | 119

somebody at 108: Great link and pragma is a classic, displays all the standard behavior. Change subject, falsely accuse, ridicule, ad hominem. Repeat tirelessly.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 21 2014 13:12 utc | 120

@all the zionist agents

Feel free to relentlessly paint me as a nazi, a conspirationist, an anti-semite.

Nothing of that can or will stick with me. But you are free to enjoy your "success" that you believe each other.

If I were a nazi I would hardly be so furious about the nazis in ukraine. If I were an anti-semite I would hardly insist again and again to differentiate between jews and zionists.

As for "conspirationist" I simply don't care. That label quite reliably indicates that one is about right and the assholes are out of arguments.

The jewland leak, the bank of england revelations, to name just two examples, again demonstrate that a well founded "conspiracy" easily carries more weight than official statements by governments, bankers and similar thugs.

Similarly the "show me proof" attempt is shown for what it is, namely a symbol of the arrogance of the criminals thinking they planned and hid everything so well that nothing against them can be found. Well, reality proves otherwise.

So, all in all: Thanks for the compliments, you thug supporters.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 13:22 utc | 121

# 88 "You seem to believe in genetics. That by definition is fascist."

Uh, no. Look up fascism. Racism/nativism maybe -- but noting that Zionists (not all Jews) are doing something one finds objectionable has more to do with what they are doing that is objectionable, than what they happen to have been born. And believe you me, the US is overrun with Christian Zionists, in far greater numbers than our Jewish population, not all of whom are Zionists.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 13:35 utc | 122

Demian # 91 And also Somebody, again, the issue isn't being Jewish per se. The issue is anyone -- Jewish or not -- who does objectionable things in support of the hyper-objectionable state of Israel.

Mr P #106 Thank you! And sorry, I don't read Cyrillic and totally forgot about masculine vs feminine endings. When I heard it used, I took it to be something like the "street" term "ignorant" -- only with a lot more punch. And for Powers to have the chutzpah to bring up Tolstoy and Checkov while lecturing a fellow diplomat, well, my blood still boils!

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 13:51 utc | 123

122) So what were you trying to say by pointing out some Ukrainian politicians are Jewish?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 14:01 utc | 124

fairleft # 113 Juan Cole, unfortunately, is a CIA asset.

kjs # 114 Gee, I hadn't realized the term disappeared. Everyone I know still uses it. I guess you don't have to be old or Midwestern to be unfashionable...

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 14:05 utc | 125

somebody # 124 Huh?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 14:06 utc | 126

"95 You too seem to think it is genetic. Would you mind being called fascist?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21, 2014 6:08:52 AM | 99"

"plus 92) The analyis in the above link is a threat to any European politician trying to win elections - or parties, wishing to win seats in the European parliament.

It seems that the harsh rhetoric, quite beyond the pale, is meant to cover up the gross inaptitude of the Brussels bureaucracy, who badly mismanaged the entire EU Ukrainian enterprise, and its zero-sum motive to engineer a Cold War type geopolitical grab on Russia’s borders to be financed by EU taxpayers’ money.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21, 2014 5:10:56 AM | 95"

Doesn't make much sense. Is "somebody" a computer program?

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 21 2014 14:11 utc | 127


Not possible. zeu doesn't have a KGB.

But zeu has a rather complex self destruct mechanism with elements called (among others) merkel and van rompuy. Not computerized, though, as a wise precaution against zusa igniting it *g

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 14:18 utc | 128

Pragma at 119: Again, you don't respond and instead insult, a classic operative response. Why don't you just tell us how a 'non-anti-Semite' 'accidentally' quotes and repeats classic and extremely silly/stupid anti-Semitic conspiracy theory? Or just tell us you subscribe to those conspiracy theories. Well, that last point is obvious: you're quoting them so you do.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 21 2014 14:27 utc | 129

fairleft, I have an honest question I wish you'd really think about. I'm assuming you're an American, like me. And we have no compunction praising our fellow Americans when they do something in accord with our values, and criticizing them when they don't. I.e., we're not blindly zenophobic, right? And I think that's pretty generally true for most of the people here, whatever their ethnicity: they can criticize "their own" when they find it warranted, based on what the person, or group of people, did. So I'm wondering about your blind spot: are all Jews blameless just by definition, or might some of them, sometimes, do something objectionable? And if so, why is no one allowed to say so? In my family's background are lots of different peoples who at various times were subjected to hideous repression, ethnic cleansing and yes, genocide, but I still see no reason not to criticize them when they're doing something wrong -- why can't you? And please don't invoke the Holocaust: I can trump you in my own background by hundreds of years and millions of people. Really: not all Jews are perfect or blameless, and we're not really talking Jews anyhow, we're talking support for criminal acts by the state of Israel, supported here in America by a LOT more Christians than Jews. I.e., Zionism.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 14:51 utc | 130

Nora#125- true, Indians spring to mind, though cooking with it... apart from Mr. P and yourself (you being American) its rather outdated unless your a sleeper, awoken some decades to late? But all is in jest, no need for you to be a knight for Mr. P again...

Posted by: kjs | Mar 21 2014 15:10 utc | 131

Retweeted GrahamWPhillips (@BritinUkraine):

That's not racist then? A new website letting Ukrainians book hotels with 'no Russians' -

Posted by: brian | Mar 21 2014 15:10 utc | 132

Give people some bogus threat to fight against and detract them from understanding their condition. Make people kill each other.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21, 2014 7:10:07 AM | 103

You should know when distractive confusion is your signature modus operandi and raison d'être on this site.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 15:11 utc | 133

further Fallout from the ukrainian crisis...but this one pleasant :

Japan's gaming community has developed a crush on Crimea's attorney general
What does it take for Japanese gamers to develop an interest in Crimean politics?

One adorable attorney-general, that's what.

Natalia Poklonskaya, Crimea's attorney-general, has captured the hearts and minds and a little something extra of Japanese gamers, thanks, it appears, to her winsome face and her ability to blink many times in a row.

Posted by: brian | Mar 21 2014 15:12 utc | 134

Let me re-post that in its proper form:

Give people some bogus threat to fight against and detract them from understanding their condition. Make people kill each other.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21, 2014 7:10:07 AM | 103

You should know when distractive confusion is your signature modus operandi and raison d'être on this site.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 15:13 utc | 135

Of course world is run by conspiracies - people form them when the STKAES ARE HIGH. It so basic that any careful observer con notice this mechanism at local and even personal level: e.g. family members
CONSPIRE to exclude others from inheritance, town authorities receive bribes to sign beneficial contracts. Didn't the president of the Bayern football club get convicted for similar reason? By DEFINITION there was CONSPIRACY involved.

Obviously it goes up to the country level - lawmakers pass bills that with special clauses (usually added at the very last moment) that only certain people "in the know" can exploit.
Companies CONSPIRE to fix prices, it happened many times in the music industry, with construction companies and others. THAT'S WHY ANTI-TRUS LAWS WERE CREATED - to fight CONSPIRACIES.

The Ribbentropp-Molotov pact was a conspiracy, other inter-state agreements too.

But somehow, magically, by some unknown force, conspiracies involving shadowy banking elite steering the governments CANNOT happen! It's really exceptional that such scenarios are simply not allowed! "Tin foil hats, conspiracy nuts" and just plainly vulgar names are hurled for people who dare to suggest such a phenomenon!

Of course people who fall for the propaganda pushed by the agents of the shadow elite and the her shills spare no effort, no money, no airtime and no bandwidth to make the public believe that analyzing conspiracies EQUATES to be being PARANOID - which is obviously NOT. Paranoid are the people who think that other are following them on public transportation, that their hairdresser is an alien, that EVERYBODY conspires against them. Such arguments are spread all over the place to keep those who challenge official accounts in check.

Not so long ago people suggesting total state surveillance where ostracized, called ugly names, ridiculed. today it's different,isn't it?

BTW - the argument that believing in conspiracies makes people powerless is the most silly thing i have read in a long time. It's the opposite - it mobilizes the public to push for greater transparency, for careful maintenance of checks and balances, for EDUCATING people about the mischievous mechanisms the shadowy elite employs against us.

News Flash — CIA Invents “CONSPIRACY THEORY”:

It is a little-known though well-documented fact that the origin of the campaign to ridicule research into conspiracies was initiated by the CIA in 1967 to undermine the credibility of those who questioned the official claims of the Warren Commission regarding the so-called facts of the Kennedy assassination...

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 21 2014 15:17 utc | 136

ksj #131 Huh? If you're a program, you need some work. If you're a person, likewise.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 15:18 utc | 137

135) thanks for the cue - back to topic Ukraine

Michał Baranowski ‏@M_Baranowski 22m

#Zoellick suggest that if Ukraine decides to fight, US will need to consider military assistance, at least by providing arms #BrusselsForum

Some people are planning World War III

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 15:26 utc | 138

somebody #138

If who in Ukraine decides to fight what?

silly me -- I guess it doesn't matter, does it. Wow.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 15:30 utc | 139

@somebody #13 and #28

no one in Europe wants Ukraine
The EU leaders do
Europe wants Russian gas
What Europe really wants, badly wants is to break the Russian gas monopoly
That's what the Us really want, not Europe

@kalithea #45

The only reason I can see the EU wanting another welfare state
I think you both havent' grasped what the EU is all about: an obscure bureaucracy at the service of lobbies of all sorts, whose core mission is to bust welfare states, lower labor wages, privatize, and protect private finance;

Ukraine would be more territory to exploit and more business opportunities;

But Europeans wouldn't risk confrontation with Russia over Ukraine; it's NATO that is really pushing the issue here, and showing who's the real boss

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 15:37 utc | 140

I think that we should take the attacks, smearing campaigns, and the kicking and struggling by the zionist front simply as what it is: thugs spotted in flagranti.

Sure enough we can not expect them to simply confess. After all liars aren't about truth but about lies and distractions. We can, however, enjoy their screaming "anti-semite!" as what it is, a confession and a clear demonstration of their willingness to do just about anything to disguise, destruct, and deceive.

Let's not forget that zionists are the real anti-semites because they hide behind the jewish semites (and such cause immense harm to them) and are set to extinguish other semites like the palestinians.

Why should anyone care about the made complaints of mass murderers and their agents.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 15:38 utc | 141

Mr P, Sometimes it is, and yes, I guess it's an honor, but sometimes it's just group-think by otherwise decent people who've been frightened and brainwashed their entire lives and might possibly be reachable. Gilad Atzmon, Israel Adam Shamir and Philip Weiss, to name just three, all started out like that too -- and then grew. I was trying to give fairleft an opportunity to open his mind a bit; he can take it not, as he chooses.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 15:52 utc | 142

The game of usury and global monopolies has been around for some time already:

Confessions of a Monopolist:

This is the story of something for nothing—of making the other fellow pay. This making the other fellow pay, of getting something for nothing, explains the lust for franchises, mining rights, tariff privileges, railway control, tax evasions. All these things mean monopoly, and all monopoly is bottomed on legislation.

And monopoly laws are born in corruption. The commercialism of the press, of education, even of sweet charity, is part of the price we pay for the special privileges created by law. The desire of something for nothing, of making the other fellow pay, of monopoly in some form or other, is the cause of corruption. Monopoly and corruption are cause and effect. Together, they work in Congress, in our Commonwealths, in our municipalities. It is always so. It always has been so. Privilege gives birth to corruption, just as the poisonous sewer breeds disease. Equal chance, a fair field and no favors, the “square deal,” are never corrupt. They do not appear in legislative halls nor in Council Chambers. For these things mean labor for labor, value for value, something for something. This is why the little business man, the retail and wholesale dealer, the jobber, and the manufacturer are not the business men whose business corrupts politics.

No law can create labor value. But laws can unjustly distribute labor value; they can create privilege, and privilege despoils labor of its product. Laws pass on to monopoly the pennies, dimes and dollars of labor.

But monopoly does not end here. Even the sacrifice of our political institutions, even the shifting of taxes to the defenseless many, even the control of all life and industry by privilege, do not measure the whole cost of monopoly. These are but the palpable losses, the openly manifest ones. Monopoly palsies industry, trade, life itself. It encloses the land and the nation’s resources. It limits opportunity to work. It erects its barriers about our resources; not to use them, but to exact a monopoly price from those who do. Monopoly denies to man opportunity. It fences in millions of acres of soil, of coal and iron mines, and of city lots. It closes the door to competition and to labor. This is why America is not only the richest, but in some respects the most poverty marked of nations. This is why enterprise is strangled, and labor walks the streets looking for a job.

Here is the confession of a monopolist. It is the story of no one monopolist, but of all monopolists. It shows the rules of the game. The portrait presented is not the portrait of any one monopolist Senator; it is the composite of many, and the setting may be laid in any one of the Northern States. For the United States Senate is the refuge of monopoly. Its members no longer are representatives of the Commonwealths which name them, but of the big business interests whose directors, attorneys and agents they are.

And also Unequal Protection: Jefferson Versus the Corporate Aristocracy

The Three Threats. Thomas Jefferson’s vision of America was quite straightforward. In its simplest form, he saw a society where people were first and institutions were second. In his day Jefferson saw three agencies that were threats to humans’ natural rights: 1. Governments (particularly in the form of kingdoms and elite groups like the Federalists) 2. Organized religions* (he rewrote the New Testament to take out all the “miracles” so that in The Jefferson Bible—which is still in print—Jesus became a proponent of natural rights and peace) 3. Commercial monopolies and the “pseudo aristoi,” or pseudo aristocracy (in the form of extremely wealthy individuals and overly powerful corporations)

Thomas Jefferson

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

"Bank-paper must be suppressed, and the circulating medium must be restored to the nation to whom it belongs."

"By a declaration of rights, I mean one which shall stipulate freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of commerce against monopolies, trial by juries in all cases, no suspensions of the habeas corpus (por. neminem captivabimus), no standing armies. These are fetters against doing evil, which no honest government should decline.” - in a letter to Alexander Donald, on February 7 1788

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"

Grand Duke Alexander said this about his visit to the U.S. during a visit in 1913:

As a matter of fact, there was one startling change which seemed to have escaped the attention of the native observers. The building of the Panama Canal and the stupendous development of the Pacific Coast had created a new form of American pioneering; their industries had grown to where a foreign outlet had become a sheer necessity. Their financiers who used to borrow money in London, Paris, Amsterdam had suddenly found themselves in the position of creditors. The rustic republic of Jefferson was rapidly giving way to the empire of Rockefellers, but the average man-in-the-street had not yet entirely caught up with this new order of things, and the bulk of the nation was still thinking in terms of the nineteenth century (Once a Grand Duke, p. 242).

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 21 2014 15:59 utc | 143

More for fairleft (and anyone else who might be interested): Norton Mezvinsky and Israel Shahak, "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel", Israel Shahak, a Holocuast survivor, btw, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion", and a piece up on CounterPunch right now:

You seem like a decent person: please read these. It won't be easy for you but they're more than worth it.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 16:00 utc | 144

@Juan Moment #99

considering that NATO are Israel's ultimate henchmen, it can be rightfully argued that any development strengthening NATO's position must be also in Israel's interest, regardless where on planet Earth this may be

this is a total white-washing of present, real, out-of-control US colonialism

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 16:02 utc | 145

ProPeace, Juan Moment and claudio (and others): Isn't the real issue the convergence of various groups and people seeking power and profit at the expense of everyone else? They don't have to take marching orders, they just all of them do what they do, sometimes in concert, sometimes not. The real issue is how the hell do people not in power, and with no way to get into power or even have their voices heard, stop them. And Americans who "get it" are every bit as powerless as the average Ukrainian, Syrian, Iraqi, Afghani, Serbian, etc. They just don't know it yet.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 16:19 utc | 146

@Nora #146

I partially agree; if we think of how we can reunite "the forces of good" (the powerless?), then we must think along the lines you suggest, and national, ethnic, religious, etc distinctions are meaningless;

but if we try to make sense of what's happening in the world, what forces and motives drive the events we watch, then distinctions *do* matter;

an Israel lobby could exist in the first place only because of western colonialism; and
western colonialism will continue unabated even when Israel will long have "vanished from the pages of time"; it will continue until an array of counterpowers in the world and within our societies manage to radically reshape our mental landscape and question our mythologies centered around the concept of a "superior western civilization"

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 16:45 utc | 147

claudio # 147

Yes. And at the basis of colonialism is some sort of mercantile interest plus a myth of superiority which either already existed or was carefully-inculcated as a rationalization. Speaking in more generalities, but trying to get at the process behind all these horrifyingly similar events, you then have idealists among "the people" trying to get a movement going without a clue as to what to do next, then in come (from wherever) the thugs and everything reverts to an even more brutal status quo ante plus, of course, even more misery and destruction.

So, how to change that process?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 16:58 utc | 148

Pepe's take on sanctions in Ukraine.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 21 2014 17:03 utc | 149

Bills of Attainder (singling out one individual by law rather than submitting them to Due Process) are illegal under our constitution. What Congress did to ACORN was found to be a Bill of Attainder, although too late to matter. Magnitsky -- "sanctioning" a whole bunch of people in Russia for what was done in Russia to (I believe) a Russian but in any case NOT an American -- is a Bill of Attainder that, were we not now living in bizarro-world would never have happened. And I swear these "sanctions" of individuals for what their government did are equally unconstitutional, Scalia, Roberts et. al. notwithstanding.

Not that it much matters: we ARE in bizarro-world.

Oh, and Obama gets altogether too much credit for teaching "constitutional law" -- as a (presumably well-paid) adjunct, he taught one course, I believe, on Civil Rights Law. It could have contained anything but hardly required mastery of any other aspect of the body of law that has developed since the constitution was written, signed and put into effect.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 17:14 utc | 150

@147 claudio

I believe you're either very deluded or deliberately misleading.

Zionism is the litmus test for all humnity to once and for all wake up and abolish supremacy whether it be colonial, economic, political or mediatic. The Israel Lobby is a cog, a tool in the wheel of Zionism's multi-leveled complexity. And as much as we'd like to think of some country, Russia, for example other counterpowers coming to our rescue to free us from this oppressive system that is fixed on behalf of supremacy; it is so perfectly rigged on a global scale in so many countries even in Russia and intertwined with the economies of those countries that resist that we will be ultimately challenged by our responsibility as INDIVIDUALS to disseminate the truth and singularly and collectively fight this supremacist force for evil, by exposing it first concretely and shaming it repeatedly and yes throwing our support behind the greater forces for world equilibrium that could derail and sabotage this supremacist expansion.

Do not shut down what others feel in their gut that we are dealing with an Anglo/Zionist empire, colluding to cement and legitimize supremacy.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 17:39 utc | 151

Oh and when I write Anglo/Zionist empire which in fact is not a term I coined, so I don't want to take credit; I mean it in the reverse, it should be reversed, even though phonetically it sounds better in that order. The tables turned some time back when everyone was distracted with other events such as the sexual revolution, peace and love, the Cold War, the Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War. While everyone was fixated on these events the two power brokers were starting to change places in order of wealth, power and geo-political influence.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 17:56 utc | 152

@kalithea #151 I agree that Zionism is a good litmus test for humanity: it's at the forefront of evil, the last racist state on the planet, a real relic of the age of european nationalistic imperialism, when it was conceived;

I don't think of counterpowers coming to our rescue, rather in them being capable to resist and talk the only language we understand, that of force, and so force us to step back and open up mental spaces where we can start to think again;

"fight this supremacist force for evil": I think there is a suprematist force at work since centuries, far stronger and more dangerous than Zionism, and that is Europeans' (and then US) quest for world domination; Zionism is just a chapter in this story, although particularly repellent

it seems obvious to me that, no matter how deeply entagled the relationship between Us, Uk, other European countries, and Israel is, western colonialism can do without Israel, not the other way round;

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 18:05 utc | 153

@Nora #148

So, how to change that process?
good question for all!

as a first step, I would suggest rehabilitating the paradigm within which politics operated, among many hypocrisies and contradictions, after WWII: the world as a community of sovereign nations, social equality as an aim the governments where called to work for, public policies and state intervention as a means to that end;

those hypocrisies and contradictions where questioned by the movements in the sixties (albeit based on old and inadequate ideologies) and by the non-aligned movement; after they ended, we had a barren landscape where theocons, neolibs and neocons determined a real anthropological mutation of our societies (and where, by the way, Zionism started to exert unprecedented influence)

on a deeper level, we could start rethinking the XXth century, opposing the fairy tale of Absolute Evil and the White Knight that comes at the Victims' rescue and giving a second chance to the cowardly Europeans; and recognize instead how western countries, racist and war-mongers, went in a race to conquer the world at the end of the XIXth century that brought to WWI, how unleashed capitalism brought the Great Depression, how Mussolini and Hitler were admired among the upper classes of other countries, etc; and of course, how Zionism was at the time just another european racist project among others, at the service of more powerful countries' colonialism, and collaborating with Nazi discriminatory Nuremberg laws, and how all this returned within our midst when the Roosevelt-Keynesian paradigm was buried as the USSR's challenge vaned

but already at these preliminary considerations, I know we won't have unanimity among us

(we're wandering off-topic, but not more than all the discussion over Zionism)

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 18:12 utc | 154

@kalithea @152

when everyone was distracted with other events such as the sexual revolution, peace and love, the Cold War, the Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War
my reading of the sixties is, as you can tell also by my previous post, very different

the Vietnam war a distraction? the sexual revolution a distraction? the Civil Rights Movement a distraction? please ...

you are in urgent need of a wider perspective on the world's problems

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 18:23 utc | 155

Just a little warning.

As this thread so amply demonstrates we are the danger or getting stuck in some kind of looping paradoxon akin to the cogito ergo sum half-truth.

As any scientist or engineer will happily confirm measurements are only as reliable and precise as the measuring equipment. Unfortunately our equipment comes from dubious sources. Our parents, our teacher, media, and other sources have formed us - and our perception and thinking - more than we should like.

Actually it's even worse, even hardcore science like physics is quite rotten. To name an example: When nature/universe showed einstein to be wrong the einsteinians quickly pulled "dark matter" right out of their asses to keep the holy credo alive. Somewhat later their model (read: projection rather than observation) broke again; no sweat, this time they pulled dark energy out of their asses. Current status: more than 95% of fucking everything in the whole universe is supposed to be dark matter or dark energy.

Now guess how bad things are in policy, social sciences, etc. when basically the last 50 years of physics, *the* "hardcore" science, was more of a relentless celebration of holy einstein than anything one would reasonably call "science" ...

The ugly truth is that one can trust pretty nothing that one did not thoroughly inspect down to its foundations oneself, well understood, only after one even more thoroughlly inspected and verified ones logic tools and ratio.

Everything else, Pardon me, is little more than guessing and examining mirror images of projections and finally fighting for or against some projection. I'm particularly warning of a not profoundly reflected "self responsibility" position or arguing against "white knights". For one there have been wight knights in mankinds history; and: maybe withe knights only help people at least not excluding their existence and preferably doing what little (or much) they can do to solve problems.

Last but not least, we should from time to time reconsider (or re-discover) the value of modesty, a virtue that has become rare in the self-obsessed weztern world, although it seems to me that shockingly many had every reason for modesty.

I for one will certainly not be lost in zionist projections and mirror images nor will I play catch up with those projections. Maybe I'm too simple and straight a man but I've only one thing to say to the puppeteers: Fuck you and burn!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 19:08 utc | 157


I think you, claudio and I are responding to various manifestations of the same thing. The British started it quite early with their vicious de-humanization and subjugation of the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh, then imported and "refined" it over here as the "Great Game" expanded to the New World. I can't speak as well to the Spanish, Portuguese and French variants, but know enough to know they were pretty damned ugly too. So it's pretty much Western European in origin; European Jews didn't get a chance to play until they were emancipated (literally, from rabbinic control and put under the laws everybody else was already subject to), basically at various times in the 19th century. Jewish thinking had always been atavistic though, so for those who were interested it kind of fit right into the various ways people could be classed as superior/inferior. And no moral person could possibly defend Zionists' treatment of the Palestinian people any more than they could any other example of the same thing, whether "lost" in history or still going on right this minute. This monster has many heads, and as far as I'm concerned at least, they're all equally evil. The real issue is, what can we do to stop it, and I think claudio has some better thoughts than I on what we can do in addition to supporting the boycott.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 19:09 utc | 158

Mr P #159. Pretty effin' profound for a democracy-loving computer program!

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 19:21 utc | 159

Mr. Pragma, leave Einstein out of this; he never even accepted the "mysteries" of quantum physics and was soon sidelined by the physicists' community; his theories were never "proved wrong", and - from what I recall - they couldn't be, because they were mathematical elaborations of basic laws (Maxwell's equations, in particular the fact that the speed of light in a void space is a constant); dark matter, for which I have your same skepticism, was invented by the fans of the "big bang" to keep their theory alive;

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 19:34 utc | 160

With all due respect and honestly not meaning to attack anyone: All that intellectual tinkering is bullshit to the square. EVIDENTLY the politicians do whatever they fucking please and no matter what their "citizens" mean, think, or want or want not.

There is an immensely valuable lesson to be learned in ukraine and unfortunately one that is widely ignored.

The police and even the military there refused to be sent against the citizens.
At the same time in pretty much all weztern countried the police is more than willing to brutally cripple any no matter how small resistance against their politicians.

So how come the ukrainian police doesn't simply do the dirty work for the regime?

THERE is a very important lesson that could - and should - be transposed to weztern countries.

They didn't turn against the citizens because they understood that the regime is criminal.
Granted it was easy and fucking obvious and even less bright people just couldn't but see how illegal the regime is.

From what I hear the comment sections in european propaganda media just carry on spreading their lies but more and more readers tell straight out that they had just enough of all the lies.

And that is the only way I see so far. Spread the word, point out the lies, wake the people up, help them to understand how they are ignored, lied to and fucked everyday by "their" politicians!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 19:36 utc | 161

Meantime Harper is in Ukraine to see Svoboda’s fresh faces who are scarcely different from the old: one of its freshmen members of parliament is the founder of the “Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre” and has hailed the Holocaust as a “bright period” in human history. Harper doesn't care about that though. To sell his dirty oil and to get the Ukranian/Canadian vote.

Posted by: TikTok | Mar 21 2014 19:37 utc | 162

@ Mr.Pragma,thank you once again for your analysis on the marks of the beast.That is what I tried to demonstrate in my previous posting @9 I think from another angle ,inspired by the passion of Kalithea for the oppressed and my being exasperated by folks who are blinded willingly.The Truth shall set you Free.The older I get the more profoundly convinced I am of the value of these Words after which no words can come.
Mr.Pragma,do you think your very outdated and rusty KGB software will accept me as for example an arthritic typing machine?

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 21 2014 20:13 utc | 163

@155 claudio

Oh for gawd's sakes! I wasn't trying to undermine the gravitas of those events! How stupid do you take me for! I'm just saying that while our attention was directed there, power was quietly/discretely changing places behind the scenes!

Your attempt to condescend my opinion confirms my suspicion that you're deliberately misleading with a deceptive narrative that conveniently gels with the masses naive/blind view of who to lay the blame on, which at present fails to zoom and specify and merely generalizes the culprits, exactly like you do!

Here's another reply I meant for you, but now that I'm starting to see where you're coming from; it's mostly for the benefit of others who want to move from the general arena to the more precise.:

claudio, the only reason that the Zionist role in the advancement of imperial supremacy is coming to light now more and more finally! is ironically because of Israel, because these Zionist power brokers in their ivory towers where hundreds of billions of dollars trade hands in venture capital and equity capital investments and holdings in a whole spectrum of industry, domestic and foreign, have mistakenly shown their hand in their unequivocal support for Israel.

The depravity taking place in Israel and all that advances supremacy and expansion there through their lesser agents like the Lobby (whose power and influence on government was only recently exposed) and its global counterparts which these Zionist power brokers support is exposing their wider agenda. It is because of the indiscretion of these powerful individuals in regards to their unconditional support for supremacy taking place in Israel that the light is turning on them, and we begin to see how they influence the greater imperial goal with the financial/acquisitory power they hold and amass. Their role in a broader imperial supremacist agenda is coming to light because of their unscrupulous support for Zionism.

Israel is a snapshot of the bigger moving picture; advancing Zio/Anglo imperial supremacy, and it is the advancing strength and already-gained hegemony of the latter that sustains the former indefinitely no matter what manner of inhumanity goes on there, in Israel, inhumanity which is also happening on the wider global scale. Of course the supremacy being imposed globally is much more nuanced than that in Israel, especially in Western countries, but recently in countries that try to resist this imperial amalgamation; it gets just as messy and inhumane.

Only when the world's people, and countries that resist, finally start to see what's happening in Israel and its connection to power brokers that rule industry and influence policy to advance an equally depraved, imperial supremacist agenda globally to keep Zionism from capitulation, can they defeat this evil and put an end to all the devastation it wreaks.

It's not so difficult for Zionists from their ivory towers, to move and sway economic unions like the US and EU, who's history is so knee-deep in colonialism and who benefitted from it to view the advancement of imperial supremacy as a good and progressive agenda. But who's influencing whom? This is already a weakened European union and a weakened America. Most civil Western societies today would like to leave the horrors and injustice of the colonial past behind them as is demonstrated with their weariness rejection of empire building, and rightly so, but Zionists who only started with Israel, have more than one reason to advance this wider agenda, none of which is noble or justifiable, and to pull these other two back in and they, Zionists, are regrettably in an enviable position to do it, but not morally enviable.

So if these former colonialists US,EU, UK can live without Israel, as you say, but it without them, why haven't they done something to run Zionism of its rails considering how bad it makes them look to their citizens/constituents?

Zionists are so deep in their financial system and pockets and have them so tied up in guilt that they have no choice but to march onwards and forwards with this disastrous agenda of global control.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 20:17 utc | 164

J Bradley @b 76 -- Oh, I so agree with your comment. But, of course, the Obama administration has cemented in US policy what BushBoy and Cheney did so openly: Play The Red Queen of Alice in Wonderland and execute first, judge (and/or investigate) later.

Obama, our Nobel Peace Prize president, with a former job as a Constitutional scholar. What a farce.

Please, any who can, do call the WH, along with any political figures you can think of. Write LTE's; get this idea out there.

Also, since Obama reserves the right to execute anyone he can label as a terrorist, including US citizens, without due process, I'm sure he won't be averse to imposing whatever punishments he wishes against any state, and any of that state's citizens or those with that state's heritage

I keep wondering how long the world will put up with the US as not only the military hegemon but also the controller of everyone else's currencies and policies....

Posted by: jawbone | Mar 21 2014 20:27 utc | 165


thanks for linking to a book which at first glance looks like it confirms the conspiracy facts I was talking about, banking families beyond what we would call wealthy were cutting deals with all sides. They also financed Hitler, they finance anyone and everything, especially in conflicts, coz no matter which side wins, they'll be there celebrating with them.

You can continue to stick your head in the sand and hum yourself to sleep, but the sad truth staring in the face of anyone prepared to investigate is that many wars fought over the past centuries were banker wars, instigated by forces out to ensure privately owned central banks are given the monopoly on issuing currency and lend out money at interest they don't have.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 21 2014 21:23 utc | 166

@kalithea #164

so what you believe is that our civilized western society wouldn't act as criminally as it does if wasn't for those evil Zonists forcing us to do so?

Posted by: claudio | Mar 21 2014 21:30 utc | 167


Not "forcing". At least not in the usual sense. But actually worse.
By completely controlling the whole stage up to the point of creeping into peoples minds.

Just look at peoples reference systems. All rotten. It's as if a child grew up in a weird sect; the parents tell the sects world view, school telling it, the newspaper telling it, the neighbours telling it ...

They don't need to force. People will happily do as told because it will look just reasonable and right. On top of it there's plenty of ways to push gently or less gently.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 21 2014 22:02 utc | 168

Well, yes and no. Jews certainly control our media, and Hollywood, but ever since Reagan, there's been a HUGE unholy alliance between Likudniks and American Fundamentalists -- hell, that and idiotic ethnic union workers who thought their newfound prosperity was due solely to their own hard work. So this Zionist world-view is reinforced here, in schools and work and daily life, not so much by Jewish Zionists as by Christian ones. It's in the very air you breathe, I swear it.

And the point is, it doesn't matter: cut off one head, it'll just grow another, and 99% of the 99% will never even notice.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 22:15 utc | 169

#169 let's try again: hell, that and idiotic ethnic union workers who thought their newfound prosperity was due solely to their own hard work is precisely what got him elected in the first place.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 22:18 utc | 170


Don't be so freakin' cynical! I we just put an end to everything they're doing in Israel and dragged those bastards to the Hague - THAT WOULD BE A START! Because there have been enough crimes committed against people and nations to sustain that shit democracy that's really an excuse for endless slaughter, ethnic cleansing and the legitimization of supremacy!

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 22:23 utc | 171

*If* we

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 21 2014 22:23 utc | 172

kalithea, #171

Yes. Yes.

But how?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 21 2014 22:30 utc | 173

By the way, this is the Ukraine thread.

Ihor_Tenyukh - member of the neo-fascist Swoboda Party - Defense Minister of the Kiew putsch government

News Release - US Department of Defense

Readout of Secretary Hagel's Call With Ukrainian Minister of Defense Tenyukh Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby provided the following readout: "Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel spoke again today with Ukrainian Minister of Defense Ihor Tenyukh. "In the 35-minute conversation, Secretary Hagel repeated his praise for the restraint demonstrated by Ukrainian forces in Crimea. He also commended Minister Tenyukh's leadership. "For his part, Minister Tenyukh updated Secretary Hagel on the situation in Crimea and throughout the country. "Secretary Hagel re-affirmed the United States' support for Ukraine, stressed that we are actively reviewing Ukraine's request for military assistance materials, and agreed to stay in close contact with Minister Tenyukh moving forward. "Both leaders agreed on the need to find a diplomatic, peaceful resolution to this crisis."

Posted by: somebody | Mar 21 2014 22:32 utc | 174

Here is a gem from Israel Shamir's latest, "Putin’s Triumph":

The Russians enjoyed the sight of their UN representative Vitaly Churkin coping with a near-assault by Samantha Power. The Irish-born US rep came close to bodily attacking the elderly grey-headed Russian diplomat telling him that “Russia was defeated (presumably in 1991 – ISH) and should bear the consequences… Russia is blackmailing the US with its nuclear weapons,” while Churkin asked her to keep her hands off him and stop foaming at the mouth. This was not the first hostile encounter between these twain: a month ago, Samantha entertained a Pussy Riot duo, and Churkin said she should join the group and embark on a concert tour.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 21 2014 22:38 utc | 175

Team Pragma (Nora, Kalithea, Pragma and so on):

Again, none of you respond and instead change the subject and make groundless (ad hominem) insults, classic operative procedure. Why doesn't any of the 'non-Pragmas' attack Pragma for paraphrasing and promoting classic and extremely silly/stupid anti-Semitic conspiracy theory? You have the Pragma quotation ... do all of you sincerely think there was a phenomenon dominating the USSR called 'zionist communism' and so you're here to promote classic anti-semitist theory? Or are you just operatives here to discredit this blog?

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 22 2014 1:55 utc | 176

The term "conspiracy theory" is intended to shut down debate. If you don't want to debate, fuck off.

Posted by: DM | Mar 22 2014 2:10 utc | 177

The term "conspiracy theory" is intended to shut down debate. If you don't want to debate, fuck off.

Well said, 'DM'.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 22 2014 6:47 utc | 178

News Flash — CIA Invents “CONSPIRACY THEORY”:

It is a little-known though well-documented fact that the origin of the campaign to ridicule research into conspiracies was initiated by the CIA in 1967 to undermine the credibility of those who questioned the official claims of the Warren Commission regarding the so-called facts of the Kennedy assassination...

Long before '67 ... UFO's and Conspiracy Theories were created and managed as official cover stories by Agencies and then used to distract, divert and discredit re Area 51 and the 'Skunk Works' projects as well as may other locales and compartmentalized programs ... 'deceive and misdirect' ... 'divide and conquer' ... 'discredit and demonize' ... goes all the way back to Sun Tzu and beyond ... these days relentlessly, exponentially more sophisticated ...

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 22 2014 7:08 utc | 179

Here's yet another article pretty much confirming what had been already suggested here...

Ukraine: U.S. Pulls Back, Agrees To Russian Demands

& as always it's a pleasure to read this blog , as well as being another learning experience.

Posted by: readerofthisblog | Mar 22 2014 7:18 utc | 180

Apologies! for the previous posting..that was your own article . My eyes are tired from reading...
however, there's this,

Posted by: readerofthisblog | Mar 22 2014 7:52 utc | 181

I finally started peeling through the whole cloth ‪‎fabrication of the Russian ‪‎invasion of Ukraine / Crimea on March 1. After watching 43 seconds of video I found the first Big Lie! The footage on ABC News shows 5 Russian APCs – in Russia – while the newsreader declares in an agitated voice: "They are unmistakable, Russian military vehicles. A convoy of Russian marines now operating on the roads of Ukraine's Crimea." Another broadcast the same day finds even more tank footage: Russian T-72 ‪‎tanks operating in the ‪snowy Crimean landscape. (Remember the Winter Olympics? Plenty of snow in there fucking ‪‎Siberia!)

Five Russian BTR-80s? - Talk:Russia invades Crimea – on A Closer Look On Syria

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 22 2014 9:21 utc | 182

Claudio @140 But Europeans wouldn't risk confrontation with Russia over Ukraine

It is an illusion to think that Europeans are today taking independent decisions concerning their relations with Russia. In the same way as Mrs. Nuland decided who should be Prime Minister of Ukraine, the US, since a number of years, have succeeded in putting their puppets into positions of influence in EU-countries in the governments, the media, diplomacy and intelligence. This is why the Ukraine crises is so dangerous for Europe, because the US might well be able to force an end of Russian gas-sales to EU-members. One of the consequences of such a decision would be much higher energy prices in Europe, which would have severe repercussions for the European economy especially for its ability to compete with the US.
What should the EU do against it?
They should learn from the people who followed Mrs. Nulands conversation with her Ambassador in Kiev and published her illegal meddling. In the same way the NSA is following European politicians, the EU-intelligence services should follow very closely US diplomats in Europe. Whenever they try to put US candidates into positions of influence in EU-countries or when they try to blackmail or threaten, such behavior should become public knowledge, as it has happened in the case of Ukraine. If the Europeans want to defend successfully independent European decision making, they have to use similar means the US is using against them.

Posted by: alpino | Mar 22 2014 12:43 utc | 183

Thousands are demonstrating in Spain today
Clooney, Ashton, McCain anyone?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 22 2014 13:11 utc | 184

Fairleft, I think you are justified (accidentally, since this is just a target of opportunity for you), in attacking Mr P for "zionist-communists". I have had a lot of fun with this mythical two-headed beast, which consummates who knows what unholy deal in what lavatory of its soul. I have also had some traumas with it. I mean, it does actually exist, in the form of what is still called ha-Shomer ha-Tza'ir and various associated youth networks, also in relation to the leftmost, secular synagogue networks (not Masorti, which is actually centrist). But in relation to Russia, the real point of reference for the mythical 'zionist-communists' has got to be the 1946-1948 arms shipments from Stalin to the soon-to-be-independent Jewish State; I have established at least to my own satisfaction that emissaries of the (Jewish) Palestine Communist Party and what was also then called ha-Shomer ha-Tza'ir, and represented the communist wing of the Palmach, fooled Stalin into thinking the then-to-be-independent Jewish State would become a Socialist Republic, in the full anti-UKUSAian sense of the word, whereas of course as soon as Ben Gurion assumed power, he dissolved the Palmach and so to speak 'joined NATO', which caused Stalin some irritation, as I attempt to document.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 22 2014 14:53 utc | 185

Mr Pragma i am your fan. I think than Libertanian Politics is suited for big economies. Smal economies fall much earlier than big libertarian economies. So big economy can eat and consume the fall out of a small economy. Nevertheless bid libertanian economies also suffer from capitalism but much more does small economies.
amd this is the cause for war for those coutries that don`t want to fall down. so they are crushed either by money changers or by war.

Posted by: ZX | Mar 23 2014 16:55 utc | 186

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