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March 25, 2014
Ukraine: Purge Of The Fascists?

(There was no time yet to read through all your comments on yesterday's thread so I am not sure how much of this has been mentioned yet.)

The fascist defense minister Tenyukh, who wanted to start a war with Russia, is probably being dismissed today by the Ukrainian rump-parliament. The provisional president designated one Mykhailo Koval as acting minister of defense. But Reuters reports that Tenyukh himself asked to be dismissed and that the parliament lacked the votes to accept it. Other claims differ. I have not yet found the reasons for this move. Was it because Tenyukh wanted to start a war or because he did not manage to do so? Or was it the fact that about 80% of the Ukrainian troops on Crimea defied his orders and decided to move over to the Russian side?

In other news one of the most dangerous leaders of the Pravyh Sektor, the muscle paramilitary side of the fascists in Ukraine, was shot down and killed near the west-Ukrainian city of Rivne. It is unclear who killed him and why. According to the (anti-Putin) Moscow Times:

Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Doniy said on his Facebook page that unknown assailants blocked off Muzychko's car, dragged him out of the vehicle, cuffed his hands behind his back, and shot him twice in the chest.

Vse and another Rivne website, ChaRivne, said that townspeople believed that Muzychko had been gunned down by a "Russian subversive group."
…
"Those who killed him made sure that he was not wearing a bulletproof vest and then shot him in the heart," Right Sector activist Yaroslav Hranitskiy said, ChaRivne reported.

Muzychko earlier this month accused the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office and police of planning to kill him or capture and hand him over to Russia.

"I am not afraid of death," he said in a YouTube video. He said his "friends, brothers, patriots" would "continue the battle."

Voice of Russia as well as Associated Press report that Oleksandr Muzychko was killed by Ukrainian police forces:

Ukraine's Interior Ministry says a prominent member of a radical nationalist movement in Ukraine that played a key role in recent anti-government demonstrations was killed during a police operation to detain him.
…
Police say Muzychko was sought for organized crime links, hooliganism and for threatening public officials.

The Interior Ministry said Tuesday that Muzychko was shot dead after opening fire on police.

Muzychko was an embarrassment for the government. The allegation that the February 21 coup in Kiev was executed by mostly fascist forces is based on the roles that Tenyukh, Muzychko and others played in it. Removing them now may be an attempt to clean the image of the putschists.

Posted by b on March 25, 2014 at 10:23 UTC | Permalink
Comments

@200 – guest77.. usually i read the posts and acknowledge a few of them in a respectful manner. occasionally i share an article that i think some might enjoy reading. if you define that as trolling – so be it. thanks for putting it in the form of a question. did you want to have a conversation, or were you more interested in labeling me in an unfriendly way?

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2014 2:17 utc | 201

Nora @109–
I live in the state of Iowa where everyone is armed with rifles and shotguns, yet has an extremely low homicide rate even by Canadian or some European nations’ standards. It’s also a state where the typical rightwing US extremism hasn’t found much of a home.
So, when you talk about armed Americans, don’t necessarily buy into the MSM meme and overly generalize.

Posted by: sleepy | Mar 26 2014 2:44 utc | 202

Hola chicos, I think Kalithea and Mr. Pragma are the best posters on MOA. I don’t think b reprimanded them as much tried to steer the concervastion to where he wanted it to be. Rembering crap, anybody can’t be seen as having carteblanche, everytime they write they’re lack of brain matter is revealed.
Hasta luego 🙂

Posted by: Fernando | Mar 26 2014 2:48 utc | 203

sleepy #202,
I live in the state of Pennsylvania and unfortunately we’ve got a lot of armed rightwing nutcakes here, and homicides. And I say that as a gun owner with a very healthy respect for what those things can do.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 2:53 utc | 204

1. b, I believe you are a penetrating and sensitive analyst, but I have to say Im skeptical that from the assassination of one fascist gangster you can foresee the liquidation of the fascist leadership. And even if Tenyukh resigns, there are still Sych, Avakov, Paribii and Yarosh in key positions in Kiev. Perhaps the fascists wont go without a civil war.
2. I come to this site to read b. Some of the commenters seem to believe that somehow this is their site, that people come to read their comments/analysis. Their hubris is astonishing.

Posted by: ess emm | Mar 26 2014 2:56 utc | 205

Nora @204
Sorry if I came across as a bit of a scold. I’m not a native Iowan nor from the Midwest. It’s just that much of the upper Midwest is somewhat of an outlier when it comes to the simplistic MSM framing of cultural/social issues such as gun control, etc. And of course it goes without saying that the media dumbs down and propagandizes everything else–heck, that’s what 90% of this blog ends up critiquing, lol.
Of course, I understand your perspective living in Pennsylvania.

Posted by: sleepy | Mar 26 2014 3:00 utc | 206

Bring back Kali and Mr. Pragma por favor.

Posted by: Fernando | Mar 26 2014 3:03 utc | 207

sleepy # 206
You weren’t a scold — and the rural parts up there truly are different than they are just about everywhere else. May they remain that way!! I used to live in the South, and sometimes it feels like I never left… It wasn’t always like this here though; that’s the interesting part.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 3:13 utc | 208

I’m sorry james, forgive me.
I’m confused by the author’s assessment of the Russian Revolution as “hobbling the country’s advancement”.
After all, they did come to power when Russia was a backwards, demoralized and starving monarchy and proceeded to fend off a civil war and foreign invasion. They industrialized the country within a generation – enough to turn back history’s most devastating invasion. An invasion launched by the world’s most industrially advanced country (backed by the other advanced nations) which cost them 24 million dead and incalculable amounts of physical damage. Nor did the revolution hobble them so much as to prevent them from rebuilding from that horrific invasion to emerge as one of two global super powers – a super power which was at the forefront in helping to liberate the third world from the colonial powers which had dominated it.
I guess if the author wants to say that, 70 years later, it was the revolution that hobbled the Soviet Union and caused it to succumb to the machinations of the United States (unscathed during the war and collaborating with exiled Nazis) and to traitors like Yeltsin, that would be a tough argument to make. Especially seeing how, for all the mighty pain caused economically and socially, Putin was produced by the schools and institutions of the Soviet Union (every dark cloud and all that…).
Its just hard for me to see how the author defines that mighty history as “hobbled”, that’s all. Maybe you can understand my why I’m surprised you found anything interesting at all in there.
Not to mention the dumb “communists jews” horseshit. But really, we’ve done all of that to death lately. I’m over it.
The video was fantastic though. Putin’s “Give me my pen” moment was a classic I have never seen before. So thanks for that. But the rest… bah.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 3:16 utc | 209

I read this, I know someone posted it the other day, but is this a reasonable description of what took place between Powers and Churkin? I can’t find anything, and the link he provides says nothing about what he claims in his piece. It sounds good though…

The Russians enjoyed the sight of their UN representative Vitaly Churkin coping with a near-assault by Samantha Power. The Irish-born US rep came close to bodily attacking the elderly grey-headed Russian diplomat telling him that “Russia was defeated (presumably in 1991 – ISH) and should bear the consequences… Russia is blackmailing the US with its nuclear weapons,” while Churkin asked her to keep her hands off him and stop foaming at the mouth.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38023.htm

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 3:29 utc | 210

#197 – Nora, Paul Craig Roberts cannot be expected to grasp and articulate the simple historical fact that the 13 colonies were constituted by a sufficiently powerful influence specifically for world mastery, because it sounds like treason. But that is purpose for which the USA was constituted. Roberts wrote quite reasonably,

Hearst needed a war to build his newspaper circulation. Roosevelt needed a war to slate his blood-lust and desire for military glory. Lodge needed a war to reinvigorate American manhood and to enlist American manhood in his “Large Policy” of American Empire.

Elsewhere the “Large Policy” is called America’s manifest destiny which right now, amid the “last battle of the Cold War,” we see deep into terminal crisis. The World Hate Establishment, or in my closeted language the 1688 Glorious Revolution, is nearly finished. An age of peace is on the horizon. I want to weep.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 26 2014 3:34 utc | 211

guest77 @ 209,
when Vladimir Vladimirovich told that oligarch prick “And give me back my pen,” he had the entire echelon of kleptocrats thoroughly cowering – simple because the man is what we in the West have no experience of. Putin is a statesman who, don’t laugh, loves his country! Duh? And this must be why b and the Russian population so revere him, and why our hate blinded media barons are berserk with moronic frustration.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 26 2014 3:53 utc | 212

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25, 2014 7:37:34 AM | 9
i wont argue that Yeltsin waw rhe disaster that struck russia.
the article is by Dmitry Orlov, who seems to have left out Yeltsins antics.
However, we should not forget Gorbachev made Yeltsin possible…just as Krimeas return to Russia is an unintended side effect of Vicki (Fuck the EU ) Nulands scheming!
Moral: even it is broke, dont fix it

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 4:31 utc | 213

The fascist defense minister got fired because he “lost” the Crimea. He “was accused of being indecisive and slow to give orders to Ukrainian military units in Crimea”.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 26 2014 4:38 utc | 214

I think r’giap is to be thanked for clarifying issues over the past couple of days. I have been reading here as I often do, most every day.This resource that b provides is really a cut above any other blog I read. It is quality, and most of all hard work, and “rigor” as r’giap has said. There was a programmatic quality about the two that b has seen fit to block. It was more, there was more going on, than the manic regurgitation of one issue, that went on without respite of any kind. I believe that they worked with a systematic intent; and there was, I think, a clear psychological process of disruption at work. But I hope we will hear from bevin again, as the dust clears around here. I do miss his sharp perception and intelligence.
Thanks b, thanks again for watchfulness over this place that has become dear to so many who come here.

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 26 2014 5:28 utc | 215

@Copeland:
You are paranoid.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 26 2014 5:55 utc | 216

These days I just read b and skip the miles of horseshit beneath him. I may miss a little bit … not much.

Posted by: john francis lee | Mar 26 2014 5:57 utc | 217

I don’t think so, Demian. And b is clearly not paranoid, And the pragma and his acolyte have been blocked; and the reason b gives is for lack of decency; which is a sufficient reason, and perhaps more essential to understanding than the reasons I give. But it’s alright to disagree.

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 26 2014 6:07 utc | 218

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 25, 2014 11:16:11 PM | 209
This sober academic here does not think Russia was backward in economic terms when the Bolsheviks took over. He is just looking at the economic evidence.
Wall Street funded the Bolschevik revolution

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 6:16 utc | 219

@Copeland:
“You are paranoid.”
“There was a programmatic quality about the two that b has seen fit to block. It was more, there was more going on, than the manic regurgitation of one issue, that went on without respite of any kind. I believe that they worked with a systematic intent; and there was, I think, a clear psychological process of disruption at work.”
“But it’s alright to disagree.”
Oh, goodie! Copeland, what a lot of codswallop. Why bother posting such pointless ruminations?

Posted by: DM | Mar 26 2014 6:47 utc | 220

Monday’s BRICS – Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa – statement in support of Russia is still not in the Main Stream Media, apart from Canada’s Globe and Mail. Funny enough the Globe and Mail felt obliged at the exact same time of the statement to do a hit piece on BRICS telling their readers that more than half of the world is “Basket Case, Ruffian, Inflation Central“.
XINHUA – The official Chinese media organization now has come out with additional information

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said his country expects positive results from the upcoming BRICS Leaders Meeting to be held in July in Brazil.
He said the summit should focus on promoting two major projects — a development bank and an emergency reserve — and sending out signals of confidence, unity and cooperation.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 6:49 utc | 221

There were surveillance cameras around the cafe. The Pravy Sector leader was killed by the state. They admitted as much.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 7:01 utc | 222

They mean it. This here is the interior minister on facebook
Swears to arrest anyone with unregistered guns. Warns that a “Somalia, with gangs dividing power” would be in the interest of the Kremlin justifying occupation.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 7:12 utc | 223

I have seen so many alternative sites to go from objective viewpoint towards more pro-zionist view. Like armscontrolwonk, etc. I’m afraid ‘b’ could be heading the similar path. While his own posts still isnt “on the dark side”, but he is allowing zionist trolls to flourish on his blog (I cant remember him banning any of them, they still post), but profusely banning those who are exposing zionists agenda (like 10 or so during the year).
I dont believe in coincidences, so what gives?

Posted by: Harry | Mar 26 2014 7:12 utc | 224

somebody #222
“Pravy Sector leader was killed by the state.”
There is no state.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 7:32 utc | 225

I hope Mr Pragma returns. He is insightful and knowledgeable in ways that these comment threads will miss. As guest77 at 182 writes, maybe he can just learn not to make ‘jokes’ like ‘Victoria Jewland’ … I think things are worse than that, and have blockquoted exactly where I think Pragma jumps off the anti-Semitic cliff, but what I wanna say is that I don’t think his political beliefs are what got him blocked.
You have to look at these comment threads from b’s perspective, and it’s perfect somehow that the first words in this post, the one where kalithea/pragma were banned, are these:

(There was no time yet to read through all your comments on yesterday’s thread …)

b wants the comment thread to be useful to him, and many meters of long-winded off-topic comments cancels that potential usefulness. The threads are useful to b and people like him if we mostly add ‘news’ that’s on topic, our own on-topic insights, or _new_ news and analysis from the internet that’s interesting to MoA readers.
And Pragma has done that and can do it again. He is multilingual and has access to internet sites others of us don’t, and he comes from a Duginist perspective that’s rare on the nets and generates unusual and interesting insights.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 26 2014 7:38 utc | 226

r’giap

[…] why i cannot support conspiracy theories, elites are organically divided by their interests […]

A couple of points. The elites you are talking about are divided to a degree, in as that they have competing business interests. And yet this greed is also the glue that binds them together, it is mutual and can be built upon.
Many on the face of it competing business tycoons were found out to have engaged in anti-competitive conduct by secretly fixing prices or joining forces to destroy other competitors. Working hand in hand is no problem if it benefits both parties.
The recently uncovered LIBOR scandal where the big banking houses secretly manipulated global interest rates to their mutual benefit, raking in many billions in the process, is just one example.
Secondly, the group of people at the very tip of the pyramid, where asset values aren’t expressed in billions but trillions, have managed to get and stay there because of their ability to keep things in the family.
Definition: A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses two or more persons, a group, or an organization of having caused or covered up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an illegal or harmful event or situation.
Are you seriously doubting that the bastards worth gazillions of dollars and who for centuries now have been financing one war after another are not and were never engaged in secretly planning an illegal event? Its what they do for a living.
Nora @162

[…] “speak carefully about Israel and know that’s it’s fine for people to attack you outrageously for even doing that”. […]

You really haven’t been reading here long, otherwise you’d know that b and many of the commentators labeled as zionists by Mr P and kalithea have countless times expressed their rage at and discussed Israel’s fucked up actions and brutal military dictatorship in the occupied territories. No need to speak carefully about USrael, just not all the friggin time.
Demian @163

Self-determination is a very American idea. […]

No it isn’t, the idea is nearly as old as mankind.
Demian @164

I think their not being able to keep themselves from replying to the Zionist trolls is what did those in. Still, it’s not exactly fair that they got banned but the trolls didn’t.

You have the same problem as the two who got banned, no idea what a zionist troll is but yapping on as if you did. Pointing out the obvious – that zionism is a hideous idea responsible for the incredibly sad and continued bloodshed happening in the middle east but that it is not the driving force for every murderous aggression the US empire chooses to unleash – does not make one a zionist.
As numerous barflies have stated already, the British and US war machines have been building and brutally enforcing their empires for centuries before zionism was even born as an idea.
One has to wonder how many new keyboards Mr P and kalithea had to buy over the years because the letter ‘z’ stopped working from all the hammering it has gotten.
———–
On topic, as I mentioned after the successful Crimean referendum, the west will now have to consolidate its political assets and get rid of personnel liabilities. Muzychko’s execution is part of this process. But regardless of who is responsible for taking him out, they have done so in a fashion designed to make a statement.
Him handcuffed, shot and left for the world to see, rather than just having him disappear, is clearly a signal to his fellow storm troopers to better stay out of the headlines or else.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 26 2014 7:45 utc | 227

“Polite people” from #Crimea have their own promo video. Needs more puppies! | #вежливыелюди трейлер http://t.co/RH9zP5xzEx
in fact is is a celebrated victory!

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 8:03 utc | 228

Posted by: sleepy | Mar 25, 2014 10:44:24 PM | 202
so if so safe why be armed?

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 8:05 utc | 229

posted by: Harry | Mar 26, 2014 3:12:57 AM | 224
freedom of speech?

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 8:06 utc | 230

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26, 2014 3:32:43 AM | 225
I think there is. Just no unified control of the state.
There seems to have been confusion if he was supposed to be arrested or killed.
It certainly was not done the European way.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 8:43 utc | 231

Meanwhile, Victoria Nuland’s boy Yats seems to have announced a newer, deeper austerity for Ukraine. Here are some of the cutbacks (but note I’m not familiar with this Ukrainian website so can’t vouch for its reliability):

To increase the retirement age by two years for men and by three years for women. To eliminate the right for early retirement and dual-rate (one year for two years) for employees of dangerous undertakings. …
To increase the price for gas for municipal enterprises by 50% and two times for private consumers. To increase the price for electricity by 40%, to increase prices for municipal services in accordance with the growth of prices for gas. To increase the excise duty for gasoline by 60 Euros.
To cancel benefits and to increase transport tax by 50%. To refuse from increase of living wage.
To privatize all mines and to cancel subsidies. To cancel benefits for companies of housing and communal services, transportation, etc.
To cancel state support of childbirth, free nutrition and textbooks at schools.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 26 2014 8:55 utc | 232

Tenyukh lied about his actions. He did not give any order to shoot at the Russians, and was not even in touch with the commanders in Crimea. When his real actions came to light, he was allowed to leave quietly… some said that his actions amounted to Treason..
Tried to post this with a link yesterday, but my posts kept being not posted…

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 9:09 utc | 233

somebody | Mar 25, 2014 8:45:24 PM | 179

Ukrainian market is fine, but not Ukrainian competition.
Ukrainian industry is competitive – arms come to mind, lots of other stuff. Both Russia and Germany have an interest in talking the value down, if they plan a take over. And that is what they do.
The money talked about is not for investment, it is to pay Ukraine’s creditors.

There will be a lot of conflicting “expert” assessments and ratings, but you can judge by yourself:
What would you do if you were an oligarch in a country squeezed pinced by imperialism and upcoming russian assertiveness since about 2001?
You would do the least possible to “stay in the money” and sip off, wouldn’t you. Especially if you accout for two and a half stable factors:
1) For geopolitical reasons you can sip off a lot of the huge extra-profits in the energy sector where the warring factions compete on the highest level:
Gazprom, Lukoil, Rosneft are competing with Chevron, Exxon, BP, Stratoil, Total, Wintershall within the same basket. They are competing each other while standing together to a solid extent against the interests of other industries and producers and the needs of states like Irak and Iran, against the chinese and indian needs, titles and demands for modernization, restructuring and consolidation.
2) You can pauperize the workforce at will, because the IMF, the Germans and even russian Sberbank will intervene to prevent the worst. And the rest is devested of by making them migrant workers all over the eastern territories of Ex-USSR.
3) This pattern fits also and especially the arms-industries. They produce solid hardware with and of robust technical standards of the sixties and seventies of last century, with second grade steel amended with cheap but skilled artisanry.
And one of the biggest creditors of Ukraine is Sberbank which is also one of the biggest investors outside finance and services.
So, no, Ukrainian market isn’t fine, to be accurate their isn’t a market at all.
So there is a converging interest of the RF and parts of the EU, especially Germany (and you named Czech Republic, which I forgot yesterday) to do the same in Ukraine that Putin started in Russia 10 years ago: To bring the oligarchs into terms with market economy.
The SWP-paper also hints at that by making the cause the “Ukrainians” had to participate in setting the gauges for reconstruction and association to the EU – it’s easily seen the “Ukrainians” meant are the oligarchs!

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 9:15 utc | 234

BTW, Klitschko called on the speaker of the legislature, Turchinov, to resign, there was a vote of confidence and the Tymoshenko oligarchs-controlled legislature voted to keep him. No surprise there, Turshinov is a Tymoshenko man.
Kilitchko said that decisions are made without consultations with all involved…
As I mentioned before, this is all likely to be part of electoral positioning. Tymoshenko needs
— earn street cred — done with a tape in which she threatens to kill Putin and as many Russians as possible — everyone saw this, it is on Yahoo now
— remove similar candidates to prevent vote splitting, with a move way to the right she need to remove Yarosh, Klitschko, and that other guy Tyuhnibok.
— get as many candidate running in the East as possible
that will get her into a run-off, then she would have to move back to the left to win the run-off. I don’t claim to be super expert on Ukraine elections, but that seems like a reasonable path. There are probably other ways to do it. some say Poroshenko will run, but he is another Yanukobvich and a Tymoshenko man. If this is the case, then maybe they have him as a figure-head and then concentrate power in the hands of the prime-minister, which would be appointed and presumably be held by Tymoshenko…

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 9:28 utc | 235

Well, again, the third rail on UKUSAian notice boards, whether conservative, liberal, or revolutionary left, is not ‘zionism’ but DA JOOZE. Notice the sarcastic way in which I pre-empt the inevitable sighs of disgust by satirising myself as an ignorant neoanderthal who cannot spell. But the issue that bernhard is so assiduously fending off is precisely of this neanderthal nature: is it or is it not the case that the USA is effectively (not formally) controlled by people who ‘just happen’ to be Jewish? This is the third rail, because it is logically prior to US support for Zionism, and a lot more frightening, and there are established, empirically-based lines of defense against it, viz, the richest single dynasty in the USA is probably still the Rockefellers, and so on. But avoiding this fundamental question is just cowardice. People research it somewhat clandestinely, and the austere ‘maoist’ strictures against ‘conspiracy theory’ coming from ‘rememberinggiap’ are the least of their reasons for clandestinity, since no-one cares much what ‘maoists’ think about anything. But more to the point, we all know that the Newt Gingriches of this world can turn on a dime: they could just as easily spew hatred against ‘Jews’ as against ‘anti-Semites’, depending entirely on their perception of who controls the solid centre of the GOP (possibly the Koch brothers, who are not Jews).

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 26 2014 9:41 utc | 236

CC #235
Yes, seems reasonable.
But I think while the inside players are naturally focussing on power-struggle and infight there are those outside steering forces the Spiegel hinted at, who try to circumvent early elections and bring about a viable body for constitutional revision first.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 9:42 utc | 237

RT report how ukraine now block all russian tv channels in Ukraine.
Wonderful democracy according to obama one bet!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 26 2014 9:55 utc | 238

234) let me explain – from Germany’s point of view you can sell a lot to the Ukraine, but you would not wish to modernize industry to be in competition with your industry.
The Ukrainian oligarchs who backed Yanukovich are not interested in getting regulated by the EU. They do not need/cannot compete in EU markets.
I agree, IMF bailouts that do not tax them, are perfect for them.
The EU as a whole has no interest in Ukrainian agriculture – they subsidize their own.
So this geopolitical mess is not Germany’s idea.
Gazprom, Lukoil, Rosneft are competing with Chevron, Exxon, BP, Stratoil, Total, Wintershall within the same basket
Gazprom and Wintershall are partners in an asset swap. Germany’s and Russia’s interests in this area are probably aligned.
Ukrainian oligarchs compete within the same basket in the area of resources, too. To profit from that they need control of the state, if that is not possible regional control and private armies.
There is a long term strategy part. Russia wishes to integrate its sphere of interest. How attractive that prospect can be for Eastern European partners remains to be seen.
Germany more or less has withdrawn from further economic and political EU integration. Merkel’s refusal to issue Eurobonds – based on German national interest – made sure of that – thanks for your interesting links.
There is no EU faction amongst Ukrainian oligarchs, the EU made a non offer.
There is a transatlantic Victoria Nuland / John Mc Cain faction making money/deriving influence from the US Russian geopolitical conflict and there is a Russian faction dependent on trade with emerging markets and also taking advantage of the US/Russian geopolitical competition.
The EU is the hope of the Ukrainian middle class, in a straitjacket of corruption and crime.
That SWP think tank paper you link to is very “green table planning”. It does not have a chance in the real world.
Obama needs Russia for successes at the end of his presidency and a good economy for the time of the next elections. So the US will presumably withdraw (I would not bank on it).
Russia will be nice to Germany, but they will do what they want in Ukraine. No German think tank paper is going to stop them.
But the “Kiew government” is certainly sidelined. Every visitor now makes a point of going to the provinces.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 9:58 utc | 239

‘b’-ernhard, why don’t you give us an open thread to “da jooze”? I am convinced there are enough people here who could cooperate to soberly explain what the role and function of jewish diaspora was about in the rise of bourgeois in the transitions of corporative system from feudalism to merkantilism and colonization, to absolutism and capitalism. And then: What a republican state is all about and what democracy adds to it, and what democracy doesn’t add to it.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 9:59 utc | 240

The minister of Internal Affairs calls “right sector” bandits…
It’s on baby, it’s on…
http://tsn.ua/politika/avakov-nazvav-praviy-sektor-banditami-i-poobicyav-priynyati-viklik-341821.html
Next would probably be Svoboda…

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 10:03 utc | 241

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26, 2014 5:59:24 AM | 240
‘b’-ernhard, why don’t you give us an open thread to “da jooze”?
Problem is Moon of Alabama would be found in Google (that already happens) with all the anti-semite keywords attracting more and more psychotics who believe an outer force controls them and are glad to have finally found a place that accepts them and supports them.
b. is very relaxed about reputation management in the comments, but that would certainly be the end of the reputation of this blog.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 10:10 utc | 242

somebody
I dont really want to make comments on it since it just take space/time. But you are right. Enough of the uncalled antisemtic or zionist-conspiracy theories.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 26 2014 10:13 utc | 243

somebody #239
“There is a transatlantic Victoria Nuland / John Mc Cain faction making money/deriving influence from the US Russian geopolitical conflict and there is a Russian faction dependent on trade with emerging markets and also taking advantage of the US/Russian geopolitical competition.”
Yes, exactly, and german commercial and state interests are woven with both but strongly opposed to damages to export and deluting the financal clout of the Euro and German state credit further. So Schäuble has to develope a path of his own, and green table planning is part of it.
I think we got a lot of points together.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 10:16 utc | 244

@239
Agree with all of that. US may want Ukraine in NATO. US may use this situation as a pre-text to perhaps replace Russia as the main gas supplier to EU and thus bind and stymie EU as a potential competitor. EU does not have any clear cut interest in Ukraine, even as a market, Ukraine is too poor for EU expensive goods.
All of this at the beginning had no further goal than getting Tymoshenko out and preserving wealth of her camp in the face of Yanukovich’s take over… now that that is done … what? And nobody knows. Klitschko is rumored to have said that Ukraine can’t just wait for Western support. But seem like that is exactly what they are doing. The vacuum in leadership is suffocating. Somebody with clear head and healthy mind must take over and it is hard to see who it would be.

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 10:26 utc | 245

Retweeted Левада-Центр (@levada_ru):
Putin’s approval rating has now reached 80% (21-24 March 2014)

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 10:28 utc | 246

Posted by: CC | Mar 26, 2014 5:28:20 AM | 235
representative ‘democracies’ look an awful lot like cronyism

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 10:32 utc | 247

The survey was conducted on 21-24 March 2014 on a representative sample of the All-Russian urban and rural population of 1603 people aged 18 years and over 130 settlements in 45 regions of the country. Distribution of answers given as a percentage of total respondents with data from previous surveys. The statistical error of the data from these studies did not exceed 3.4%
BUSINESS IN THE COUNTRY GO TODAY IN GENERAL in the right direction, or country moves on the right track? etc http://www.levada.ru/26-03-2014/martovskie-reitingi-odobreniya-i-doveriya

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 10:42 utc | 248

Somebody with clear head and healthy mind must take over and it is hard to see who it would be.
Sounds like Putin. Let’s see if he is soft hearted enough to invade. In cold blood he would let them have their civil war first.
Only hope is the well educated Ukrainian people will not fall for it.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 10:48 utc | 249

@246
Watch for a huge spike in the birth rate… the future of Russia is preserved at least for now, while the Baltics and even Germanics depopulate themselves… Things work in mysterious ways and freedom and security does wonders to people…
@267
I would add ‘dynamic’ and ‘energetic’ cronyism, but that’s the best we got, although in this age of internet and the spread of information, one would think that direct democracy is technically and information-wise possible…

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 10:53 utc | 250

@249
One needs to go to war if that is the only way to protect your livelihood, your family and property. But it seems to me that the situation changed dramatically, civil war is no longer on the agenda. The struggle is against the ruthless oligarchs who went in with Tymoshenko and who are reported to hire Blackwater/Academii to intimidate citizenry. The oligarchs may be giving a run for it now…
Putin abandoned Ukraine when he “dismissed” Yanukovich. He would take the country over if it was need to prevent it from joining NATO, beyond that he will do nothing…

Posted by: CC | Mar 26 2014 11:06 utc | 251

Somebody @239

from Germany’s point of view you can sell a lot to the Ukraine, but you would not wish to modernize industry to be in competition with your industry. […]

You are right, competition with the German industry would not be wished for, but investments in industrial sectors Germany’s own industry isn’t focused on.
It is after all advanced machinery, industrial supplies, and the like which Germany derives a lot of its export profits from. So helping the Ukraine to grow in non competing industries, requiring German machinery, trucks and supplies, will in return add to the pile of things that can be sold to Ukraine. This way the Germans make sure that at least some of the cash they will transfer east will come back.
The biggest export item Germany produces are cars, expensive quality cars. Unless the Ukraine is modernized and has a population able to afford Audis, BMW’s, Mercs or Siemens washing machines, Germany’s major exporters would gain no advantage.
Ukraine used to have and in some parts still has a productive and sophisticated manufacturing base and being the biggest European country by land mass has enormous agricultural potential. Once the rampant corruption would be gone and the handbrake is off, Ukraine is in a position to economically take off more than many other European countries.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 26 2014 11:11 utc | 252

#236 RowanBerkeley
And TomGard @240
QUESTION:- Who controls/directs Judaism, Jews or satanists? First, can we agree that Satan and Freemasonry do not exist unless religious/conspiracy nuts think they do? The question Who Runs It should sound reasonable to anyone who grasps that Judaism is not a religion. How many religious Jews does anyone know? I suggest it is precise, dedicated and energised anti-religion and this is why the great majority of Jews have always been floundering in the anguished process of assimilating out – in unmentionable fear for their sanity and humanity. Thus, for 1984 years, Jewish communities have been not small but minuscule. Further: Are its roots in Abraham, Heber, Moses etc., or in “His blood be upon us and upon our children?” Does Judaism, the syndrome of attributes actually start at 30AD, id est, did it really start as anti-religion? Which religion? The one true, the one hated religion of the one hated God whose name alone the rabbis teach Jews to curse. Which one? That religion of baby raping pederasts and God hating heretics, the one that went down like a brain shot elephant fifty years ago? Yes, that one – tho truth does not change.
The question is actually central and critical to our age and should be reserved to a fresh thread. We’ll see, b?

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 26 2014 11:39 utc | 253

TomGard, #240: What you’re offering amounts to a lengthy way of saying, “well, even if it’s true that the US is effectively controlled by people who just happen to be Jews, so what? It’s a meritocracy.”

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 26 2014 12:04 utc | 254

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 26, 2014 7:11:04 AM | 252
Ukraine cannot compete with Asia in the production of cheap components. What they do – old fashioned functional advanced stuff – is good for developing markets but for Germany it is competition.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 12:20 utc | 255

Posted by: CC | Mar 26, 2014 7:06:39 AM | 251
Yep, they have to find a way to tax the oligarchs or there will be nothing to eat after the IMF bailout.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 12:32 utc | 256

Der Spiegel now in full pro Putin mode
New Cold War has to wait for another time, I guess.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 12:36 utc | 257

Russia Prepares Mega-Deal With India After Locking Up China With “Holy Grail” Gas Deal

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 26 2014 12:40 utc | 258

UKRAINIAN NAZIS ATTACK CARS WITH RUSSIAN FLAGS.
Nazis at the road blockages on March 23th, 2014 in Zaporizhia attack people, who have Russian flags.
Watch at 0:20 how the driver is dragged out of the car !
This is the Demoktratie, which funded the federal government in Ukraine and supported by the west …!
(the time on the car table set wrong)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=519051571549253&set=vb.240283046092775&type=2&theater

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 12:43 utc | 259

Thanks Brian for the video. The West’s post-news-media propaganda is completely blanking out this stuff.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 26 2014 12:53 utc | 260

Of course world is run by conspiracies – people form them when the STKAES ARE HIGH. It so basic that any careful observer con notice this mechanism at local and even personal level: e.g. family members
CONSPIRE to exclude others from inheritance, town authorities receive bribes to sign beneficial contracts. Didn’t the president of the Bayern football club get convicted for similar reason? By DEFINITION there was CONSPIRACY involved.
Obviously it goes up to the country level – lawmakers pass bills that with special clauses (usually added at the very last moment) that only certain people “in the know” can exploit.
Companies CONSPIRE to fix prices, it happened many times in the music industry, with construction companies and others. THAT’S WHY ANTI-TRUS LAWS WERE CREATED – to fight CONSPIRACIES.
The Ribbentropp-Molotov pact was a conspiracy, other inter-state agreements too.
But somehow, magically, by some unknown force, conspiracies involving shadowy banking elite steering the governments CANNOT happen! It’s really exceptional that such scenarios are simply not allowed! “Tin foil hats, conspiracy nuts” and just plainly vulgar names are hurled for people who dare to suggest such a phenomenon!
Of course people who fall for the propaganda pushed by the agents of the shadow elite and the her shills spare no effort, no money, no airtime and no bandwidth to make the public believe that analyzing conspiracies EQUATES to be being PARANOID – which is obviously NOT. Paranoid are the people who think that other are following them on public transportation, that their hairdresser is an alien, that EVERYBODY conspires against them. Such arguments are spread all over the place to keep those who challenge official accounts in check.
Not so long ago people suggesting total state surveillance where ostracized, called ugly names, ridiculed. today it’s different,isn’t it?
BTW – the argument that believing in conspiracies makes people powerless is the most silly thing i have read in a long time. It’s the opposite – it mobilizes the public to push for greater transparency, for careful maintenance of checks and balances, for EDUCATING people about the mischievous mechanisms the shadowy elite employs against us.
News Flash — CIA Invents “CONSPIRACY THEORY”:

It is a little-known though well-documented fact that the origin of the campaign to ridicule research into conspiracies was initiated by the CIA in 1967 to undermine the credibility of those who questioned the official claims of the Warren Commission regarding the so-called facts of the Kennedy assassination…

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 26 2014 12:54 utc | 261

Syricide ‏@Syricide 12h
#Jew|ish mogul to run for #Ukraine presidency -#Svoboda will be delighted I’m sure. http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-mogul-to-run-for-ukraine-presidency/ … pic.twitter.com/G5MkcQC65e

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 12:54 utc | 262

Russian Market ‏@russian_market 20h
#BOOM Ukraine Police now claims they didn’t kill the Right Sector Leader Muzychko. He has commited suicide. http://vesti.ua/lvov/44270-v-milicii-soobwili-o-verojatnom-samoubijstve-sashi-belogo …

Posted by: brian | Mar 26 2014 12:57 utc | 263

Michael #211 Why do you peg it to the Glorious Revolution? If I’m reading you right, you’re talking about British mercantilism + colonialism, which really happened with Cromwell and his Dutch financing, the development of banking/fiat money, etc., plus of course improving on Good Queen Bess’ “plantations” in Ireland by sending what men they didn’t kill to North America and the Caribbean as slaves, followed shortly thereafter by starving women and children. Much cheaper than Africans, I might add, since there was no purchase price and the shipping distance was shorter. Then the British East India Company came along and as we say, the rest is history.
In any case, God bless Putin: I’d like very much to live long enough to see an age of peace. My country has not known any since the first whites set foot here.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 13:11 utc | 264

Also Michael, or anyone else:
Could you or someone else explain to me why the concept of “rights” is criticized. Is it the rights themselves — and if so, why — or is it because they were derived from Natural Law, or considered God-given, or state-given, or what? I’ve always considered them important, and stemming from the development of law, so I’d really like to understand the thinking behind this.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 13:31 utc | 265

@chas 194 totally agree. I hugely appreciated the insights of Mr Pragma and the ban certainly makes the blog much less compelling.

Posted by: be | Mar 26 2014 15:03 utc | 266

@209 – guest77. thanks. what i enjoyed about the article is the suggestion that money – fiat currencies specifically – are used to control things. russia isn’t a part of the game. i don’t know that china is either.. the us$,euro, and yen form an important alliance monetarily, but they don’t control everything. i think the idea that this is why russia is seen as a threat is valid. i think denominating oil in us$ has been a successful ticket to letting the usa get a free ride internationally. i think if this was to change, it would be the beginning of the end for the supremacy of the us$. essentially i think a lot of war revolves around money and the game of money as it is presently played in the world.. as for his theory on the origins of communism, it was of 2ndary interest to me. yes – i enjoyed the video of putin as well!

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2014 15:14 utc | 267

@ b
Oh b, b, b… so u banned Kalithea and Pragma… but we know it had nothing to do with ‘lack of decency’.
You acted one-sidedly, using flagrant double standarts as Nora, Nobody and others have noted.
Shame on you.
@Nora
you wrote to b:
I’m trying hard not to believe that the message to the rest of us is, “speak carefully about Israel and know that’s it’s fine for people to attack you outrageously for even doing that”.
Unfortunately Nora, that may well be the case… or perhaps that Jewish Power should not be discussed,as Pragmas posts, oftentimes in a humorous way, hinted at such power.
But perhaps we should cut b some slack… the man is German and in the ‘freest’ and most democratic'(buahhahahahah) Germany of all time, people are still thrown in jail for thought crimes!
For up to 5 years no less!!
Remember some threads ago, when a certain ‘thomas’ threatened to go to the authorities in Germany(said he also lived there) about the ‘anti-semitism*’ and other such things dear to the chosen on this board? Remember how several a**holes harassed people on such issues and even had the nerve to tell us what we could or could not say here? Maybe b got their ‘message’. Or maybe he was always a good pc German from the beginning.
Rembember Nora, there is no real freedom of speech, not even in zusa, where it’s still protected by the constitution. The special interets won’t put u in jail, like in Germany, but u’ll be destroyed. Ask Norman Finkelstein, who recently complained he is unemployable
in Zamerica and is seeking work in Turkey or Iran!
As a disclaimer, I am a Brazilian* of German ancestry,
my grandparents and greatgrandparents coming from Germany, or what used to be Germany before the country was mutilated of much of its territory. So it just saddens me to see what the country has become, Pragma is correct when he points out that Germany is a zusa satrapy. Which also means a Zio one.
G died in 1945. RIP
*Some may be surprised but Brasil has the second largest population of german origin. 12,000,000[87][88][89]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_people
In fact we have a large slavic population as well,
about 1.3 million polish and ukrainians. 3 of my cousins are half polish.
There are even a couple of hundred thousand Russians!
MR.PRAGMA, if u see this, enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiPnQY9CFYA
Best regards

Posted by: Luca K | Mar 26 2014 16:25 utc | 268

@Mr.Pragma!
You should start a blog of your own. As a Brazilian
i would very much like to continue to hear your
perspectives, even more so given that the brazilian
media is pure s*it, pro-zusa and anti-russia.
If possible contact me at PCstinks@gmail.com !!
@guest77, fairleft and other assorted tinfoil hats!
anti-semitism(YAWWNNNN), real meaning: Ideas, people,
countries, etc, that Jewish supremacists and their
minions do not like or approve of.

Posted by: Luca K | Mar 26 2014 16:34 utc | 269

Thank you, Luca K. And yes, I do think you’re right and as a result have no desire to post here again, or even read what anyone has to say.
I do want to thank all the decent posters here, I’ve really learned a lot, and as for the rest, well, marinating in your fears is a pretty pathetic way to live but you’ve chosen it, so enjoy.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 16:39 utc | 270

Also, Maoism, my ass. The Cultural Revolution was Such. A. Good. Thing.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 16:45 utc | 271

Posted by: john francis lee | Mar 26, 2014 1:57:43 AM | 217
“These days I just read b and skip the miles of horseshit beneath him. I may miss a little bit … not much.”
Opposite for me, mostly. There is a wealth of data in the comments following “b” articles. Especially links to other sources and material. The comments make a handy search reference for additional info. After a while I learned who had useful comments, and who didn’t. Thanks for alerting me to the fact you are of the latter category.
The articles by “b” generally lack the depth of the material linked to after them, and often tend to obfuscate the more important aspects of many issues. Or miss those important aspects entirely and instead concentrate one some petty related side issue. The bias expressed by “b” in his comments and his selective choices of censorship of subjects and banning of comment writers explains why rather clearly.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 26 2014 18:25 utc | 272

who the fuck are you & 272 to judge b, you twerp
what i actually read, in reading what too many people who are being critical of b, from my reading do not even read b’s post, do not even show the minimum of respect in somebody else’s house, nor any historical understanding of the site itself or the breadth of issues it has covered
their analysis if it can be called that pisspoor & very parasitic of what b has actually written
attack me all you like you little pricks but have the common humanity to understand the work required to write as regularly as b does, the extent of the issues he covers & just the acrual work to maintain such a site
for those who cannot show a modicum of respect for that, fuck you now & forever
& anyone who criticises you cretinous opinion is for you evidence that they are hasbara, well fuck me jack, that is about as dumb as it gets, given that yhe people who are called that have been in the forefront of attacking the illegality of the state of israel? research the fucking site you fools
i don’t feel like being polite, you don’t know when you have a jewel in your hand – fuck you

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 19:11 utc | 273

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26, 2014 3:11:44 PM | 273
“who the fuck are you & 272 to judge b, you twerp
what i actually read, in reading what too many people who are being critical of b, from my reading do not even read b’s post, do not even show the minimum of respect in somebody else’s house, nor any historical understanding of the site itself or the breadth of issues it has covered
their analysis if it can be called that pisspoor & very parasitic of what b has actually written
attack me all you like you little pricks but have the common humanity to understand the work required to write as regularly as b does, the extent of the issues he covers & just the acrual work to maintain such a site
for those who cannot show a modicum of respect for that, fuck you now & forever
& anyone who criticises you cretinous opinion is for you evidence that they are hasbara, well fuck me jack, that is about as dumb as it gets, given that yhe people who are called that have been in the forefront of attacking the illegality of the state of israel? research the fucking site you fools
i don’t feel like being polite, you don’t know when you have a jewel in your hand – fuck you”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWkZ_StRjU0
And sometimes, they don’t outgrow it. 🙂

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 26 2014 19:19 utc | 274

& you say this about moon
& have the moral parasitism to post on the next topic
what gall
how little respect

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 19:30 utc | 275

@scalawag
Buahahahahhahha, the vid was such a perfect answer
to rememberwhatever..
:-}

Posted by: Luca K | Mar 26 2014 21:38 utc | 276

@William Bowles: Great Beaudrilliard link, I almost thought the the point might have been grokked, but then the bannings began.

Posted by: Alaric | Mar 26 2014 22:21 utc | 277

@scalawag 274: classic 😀

Posted by: Alaric | Mar 26 2014 22:31 utc | 278

Nora @ 264/265
You are quite correct.
Now see the undercurrents. England had been ruled by bestial anti-Christianity since King Henry’s new “aristocracy of money” determined to keep Church property they looted. A century later, Oliver C was financed by controllers of the Dutch commercial empire to *kill the king and to *re-admit Jews to England. Catholicism and Judaism are history’s only globalist institutions. After the 1656 re-admission, English satanism got augmented by Judaic globalism. The 1688 revolution was immediately recognised by the victors as truly Glorious because the English monarchy was relaced by the violent William/Mary fraud, followed by the imported House of Hanover enormity that we see posturing “above politics” to this day purporting to legitimate unprovoked globalist anti-humanity.
Also “right?” Rights are claims in justice guaranteed by God for performance of duties to God and are, therefore, inalienable except by sin. Civil rights flow from civil duties and are inalienable except by crime. To steal our rights by removing their basis in duties, the Hate freaks devised inalienable ‘self evident’ Rights of Man, and innumerable counterfeit rights to discredit all rights, then bills of rights legislated by the state because what the state gives the state can take away.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 27 2014 2:48 utc | 279

Here‘s some more or less up-to-date stuff on the right sector’s protests in Kiev.
My personal guess is that some of the more radicals that are in exponated positions will be taken out of the spotlight and they’l try to find some agreement with the ptb. So far, there haven’t been more assasinations. One or two “white sashas” more and I’d guess things might escalate between the old-fashioned and the western-backed fascists.

Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 28 2014 8:03 utc | 280

This person ‘rememberinggiap’ seems to have an excessively high opinion of himself, and of the early days of MoA, which he regards as something like infallible revelations from the mountain of god.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 28 2014 10:55 utc | 281

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