Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 25, 2014
Ukraine: Purge Of The Fascists?

(There was no time yet to read through all your comments on yesterday's thread so I am not sure how much of this has been mentioned yet.)

The fascist defense minister Tenyukh, who wanted to start a war with Russia, is probably being dismissed today by the Ukrainian rump-parliament. The provisional president designated one Mykhailo Koval as acting minister of defense. But Reuters reports that Tenyukh himself asked to be dismissed and that the parliament lacked the votes to accept it. Other claims differ. I have not yet found the reasons for this move. Was it because Tenyukh wanted to start a war or because he did not manage to do so? Or was it the fact that about 80% of the Ukrainian troops on Crimea defied his orders and decided to move over to the Russian side?

In other news one of the most dangerous leaders of the Pravyh Sektor, the muscle paramilitary side of the fascists in Ukraine, was shot down and killed near the west-Ukrainian city of Rivne. It is unclear who killed him and why. According to the (anti-Putin) Moscow Times:

Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Doniy said on his Facebook page that unknown assailants blocked off Muzychko's car, dragged him out of the vehicle, cuffed his hands behind his back, and shot him twice in the chest.

Vse and another Rivne website, ChaRivne, said that townspeople believed that Muzychko had been gunned down by a "Russian subversive group."

"Those who killed him made sure that he was not wearing a bulletproof vest and then shot him in the heart," Right Sector activist Yaroslav Hranitskiy said, ChaRivne reported.

Muzychko earlier this month accused the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office and police of planning to kill him or capture and hand him over to Russia.

"I am not afraid of death," he said in a YouTube video. He said his "friends, brothers, patriots" would "continue the battle."

Voice of Russia as well as Associated Press report that Oleksandr Muzychko was killed by Ukrainian police forces:

Ukraine's Interior Ministry says a prominent member of a radical nationalist movement in Ukraine that played a key role in recent anti-government demonstrations was killed during a police operation to detain him.

Police say Muzychko was sought for organized crime links, hooliganism and for threatening public officials.

The Interior Ministry said Tuesday that Muzychko was shot dead after opening fire on police.

Muzychko was an embarrassment for the government. The allegation that the February 21 coup in Kiev was executed by mostly fascist forces is based on the roles that Tenyukh, Muzychko and others played in it. Removing them now may be an attempt to clean the image of the putschists.

Comments

Timoschenko made it to Yahoonews, but not the BRICS! (after all they met Monday!!)
I wonder if the whole Ukraine smoke is not just an escalation about Syria. After all, at each time there was a positive development on the ground in the last 3 years, the West and the Gulf have answered with escalation. It’s just TINA. The West NEEDS to keep Gulf $$ in its banks, and the Gulf cannot bear seeing Asad winning and the Syrians supporting him, or simply, a multicultural society.
This is on SyrPer tonight:
SYRIAN PERSPECTIVE CAN CONFIRM SIGHTINGS OF TURK TANKS INTRUDING INTO SYRIAN TERRITORY IN THE AREA OF KASAB. The Syrian Army’s Third Army Corps is readied for confrontation with Turkey. We can also confirm sightings of Russian battleships approaching the Turkish coast. This is it. More news to follow.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 18:54 utc | 101

kalithea
Thanks and thanks for considering to stay here.
Think again! What’s the best way to fight zionism? Is it to laugh at them and to expose them with fervour? Or is it to expose them rationally and in cold blood and such taking away one of their major tools and an important part of their very base?
They have already lost their most dangerous and poisonous vipers teeth in that it is increasingly widely and well known and accepted (!) that anti-zionism is *not* equal to anti-semitism.
Some years ago they still could simply scream “anti-semitist!” and it would stick. Today, it’s fully sufficient to demonstrate that one is not at all wishing any harm to jews and, bang, their allegations crack and they have but some smelly air around their nose.
In fact I’m even grateful to b for his intervention. Simply because seeing israels and generally zionists evil one easily gets carried away and after some point one becomes insignificant because most people are commodius and just disregard what they perceive as witchhunt, no matter how justified it may be.
I’ve now some 20 years in my back investigating (and exposing) the inner workings and the ugly machineries of zionism. And let me tell you, the most valuable tools haven proven again and again to be intelligence, enlightenment/constructive exposure, and – very importantly – staying a sensitive, warm human being rather than being led to the path of a warrior only.
There are weapons only the luciferians can use and while it might look like a disdavantage that we are not to use those, it is not because using them is tainting humanity and soul.
You dispose of intelligence and that’s immensely valuable as intelligence and a sharp mind is highly valued by zionists, even up to a point of betraying their own and of pure arrogance which quickly makes feeble.
While I will not bend over even for a split second, I do see the high value of MoA and b’s work and I do see that his reprimanding you and me was not evil or unjustified. Furthermore I remember from my fighting training (physical) that any challenge or barrier can – and should – be considered a chance for growth and getting a better fighter.
So, again, put your coat to the wardrobe, have a seat and a cup of tea with me instead of leaving without solid reason!
(And don’t make me write and hold you back again because I *want* to respect b’s ruling and this very discussion might be perceived as zionism rather than matter related).

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 25 2014 18:55 utc | 102

Sean # 99
Yes. The Homeland Security industry has made a lot of money since 9/11 selling anti-terrorist training packages and equipment. Small towns terrified that they too will be attacked by Bin Laden’s minions now have cameras on their piddly-little street corners and rural fire chiefs (i.e., NO towns or even intersections with curbs) now drive around in military vehicles. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, so now ALL Americans can be treated like people of color always have been. At least police brutality is finally equal opportunity…

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 19:02 utc | 103

A bio of Muzychko. Like Tymoshenko, this “Ukrainian nationalist” wasn’t even Ukrainian.
http://rt.com/news/ukrainian-nationalist-muzychko-antics-093/ Murderous Ukrainian ultra-nationalist dead – after 2 decades of violent thuggery
Yoshi’s evil twin is upset:
http://rt.com/news/yarosh-nationalist-resign-killing-157/ Muzychko killing: Ultra-nationalist mastermind demands cops’ arrest, Interior Minister’s dismissal
“You killed boyfriend, you Moskal putz! I’ll get you for that! But first, I’m going to sit down and have a good long cry.”

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 25 2014 19:07 utc | 104

As I said, *every* criminal and undemocratic regime needs forces to suppress and keep down the people that are lied to, plundered, and oppressed.
In ukraine it’s the “right sector” thugs, in zusa it’s the increasingly and increasingly overtly paramilitarized “police”.
No surprise there.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 25 2014 19:08 utc | 105

Pirouz_2 | Mar 25, 2014 2:30:48 PM | 96
Yes, well I should be writing for my site but frankly I’m so depressed with things that there doesn’t seem to be much point. Until recently I’d been writing for my site since 2003 non-stop, but I’m burned out. Plus, I had a heart attack almost 2 yrs ago that kinda took the wind out of my sails. Hopefully, I’ll reenter the fray after my projected trip to NYC where I will chill out with my companeras and companeros.

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 25 2014 19:09 utc | 106

william, it does that to you, but can i suggest richard pryor’s routine on his heart attack, lightens the depression with a little self mockery
the leader of right sector talks from the side of his mouth, they will be cleaning their cadre in more ways than one

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 19:16 utc | 107

Mr P # 105
Not sure it was (totally) deliberate but it sure is convenient. The interesting thing here is that the segment of our population that is already angry is already well-armed and addicted to buying more, but they’ve been very well brainwashed to blame their non-white fellow-victims. (Yeah, in most cases it was a pretty easy job given their pre-existing attitudes.) The ones who really don’t get it yet — and that’s most people on the putative left — would probably need training on how to hold a gun let alone fire it.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 19:18 utc | 109

Posted by: Sean | Mar 25, 2014 2:47:11 PM | 99
It is called escalation. You pay for the guns twice, privately and as tax payer.
On Ukraine: Germany won’t make it, sorry Victoria Nuland
Der Spiegel: Kiew’s government risks civil war
– in German
short summary: Yatseniuk unable to integrate demands of Ukraine’s South and East because he refuses to separate from right wing coalition partners
Wonder why Yats does that. It is unusual for a politician to just work for the poorer geographical half of the country.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 19:22 utc | 110

Kali,
don’t forget to close the door behind you!
In the record book of ignominia, another staged “investigating reporting”, no matter what Reuters answered, which is pure bogus. Thanks to the Angry Arab who mentioned it
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2014/03/were-reuters-boy-in-a-syrian-bomb-factory-photos-staged/

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 19:24 utc | 111

Sean # 99
It’s called ‘ordinary fascism’, not yet of the jackboot variety and apparently, the jackboots are not needed as for the most part, we have retreated into our inner selves. Plus of course, it’s BIG BUSINESS (see my essay, ‘Banking on Terror – The NCS Pearson Story’ written way back in 2003, on the TSA at the request of a TSA employee)

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 25 2014 19:29 utc | 112

Haha! I’ve just learned that now merkels puppet klitchko is sniffing a chance and not only, of course, makes some noise about “right sector” somewhat tainting democracy (really? What a smart guy) but actually begins to, although still somewhat carefully, go against the other regime thugs.
How funny, an increasingly recognized as guilty and criminally involved merkel teaching her dog tricks way beyond his base.
Ad “zusa”
Due to a lack of interest in an ex-superpower I’m not that deeply knowlegdable in that but it seems increasingly likely and credible that zusa might face some separatist problems, too. That’s gonna be funny to see 2 or 3 or 4 “superpowers”, some of which will be smaller than canadian states (or whatever they call their regions) or Venezuela.
Sure enough it won’t take them long to attack each other and to engage in regional wars with a clear winner, the rest of the world.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 25 2014 19:29 utc | 113

So the best way to fight Zionism is to preach the MoA readers, who are obviously already convinced, at least for about 99.9 percent of those who express themselves?
Why not spending so much energy in the readers’ corners of the mainstream, such as NYT, WP, Guardian, BBC, etc, where you might touch thousands more, and reach them with the true gospel? Frankly, how many words a day are you guys pissing? Considering that the current trend is for people to read news on tiny phone screens, do you realize how many people you actually kick out of attempting to read any comment on this website?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 19:33 utc | 114

plus 110) gem from Der Spiegel article

Die neue “Nationalgarde”, zu der Jazenjuk die jungen Ukrainer ruft, spaltet die Nation. Denn die Garde wird zum Sammelbecken von Nationalisten vor allem aus dem Westen des Landes. Im russischsprachigen Odessa begrüßten junge Demonstranten die Truppe mit dem Ruf “Verräter!”

Short Translation: The new National Guard collects the nationalists from the Western parts of the country and thereby splits the nation. In Russian speaking Odessa young demonstrators welcomed the Guard chanting “traitors”.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 19:35 utc | 115

Stupid obama doesnt realize its over.
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/03/25/356020/obama-crimea-remains-a-part-of-ukraine/
tell that instead to israel obama you wimp!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 25 2014 19:37 utc | 116

really, mina i am convinced they do not care about this site , at all – after a 10 minute renunciation, back again

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 19:44 utc | 117

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25, 2014 3:33:25 PM | 114
There’s one problem with what you are saying re the MSM, namely you’ll be excluded. The bbc, the guardian et al, routinely excise anything they don’t like.

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 25 2014 19:52 utc | 118

just blocked Mr. Pragma and kalithea for lack of decency.
b.

Posted by: b | Mar 25 2014 19:56 utc | 119

Gotta love the NYT.

For years, Mr. Putin has complained about the West moving unilaterally to reorder the Continental balance of power — promoting Western capitalism and democracy — with little indication anyone was heeding his concerns. Its courting of Ukraine, apparently, was a step too far. . . .

Is that what they call this putsch? Courting Ukraine?
I wasn’t going to even read this but I thought, well, this looks a little more reasonable for the NYT, let’s give it a chance:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=0

Posted by: RudyM | Mar 25 2014 19:57 utc | 120

Mr P # 113
We’ve wondered for years whether Lincoln shouldn’t just have let the South go, but the real divide here is for the most part rural vs. urban. And yeah, I think it was part of a deliberate strategy, Nixon aiming for the ethnics and unreconstructed Confederates, Reagan beginning his presidential campaign in the very place some Civil Rights workers were murdered, etc. Meanwhile, the Dems, uh, did whatever the hell it is they always do…
imo the biggest problem with the ongoing decline of the US is what happens with all our armaments. I don’t think much of the world will have a lot of sympathy for (the remains of) We The People, but it would be nice if we could simply slide downhill without harming anybody else.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 20:00 utc | 121

Meet the Americans who put together the coup in Kiew

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 20:05 utc | 122

To get back on topic: who ordered the hit? I came over here tonight because the hit was reported in today’s Le Monde, and I figured there would be some speculation (it would be irresponsible not to) here about who ordered it. The report stated that the hit was carried out by Ukrainian police, but since they aren’t independent agents, you have to wonder whether it was Yats people (the CIA)the blonde’s people,or the KGB. I figured it was a mini night of the long knives, which seems to be B’s take, which means that’s what’s left of the Ukie-Nazi’s want to cleanse the more visible agents of their operation. How much authority do they have? Who’s next? Curious minds want to know.

Posted by: Knut | Mar 25 2014 20:07 utc | 123

@William Bowles
Your correct sir. I have lost count of how many times I’ve
had posts deleted and this is not just in zamerican and
brit msm media outlets, but in fact everywhere in all
of the Western media and, even more outrageous, even in
many supposed ‘alternative’ media outlets.
Which are in many cases nothing but ‘controlled opposition’.
Mina also forgets that many people come to this blog for
good insights and info, not only from B, but also from
some of those who comment here.

Posted by: Luca K | Mar 25 2014 20:08 utc | 124

Mina & remembererringgiap. Your dramatic theatrics have gotten old. Put a sock in it, the adults want to have a conversation now.
…………….
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 25, 2014 3:29:51 PM | 113
“but it seems increasingly likely and credible that zusa might face some separatist problems, too.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/25/alaska-petition-secede-russia-going-strong-18k-sig/ Alaska petition to secede to Russia going strong at 18K signers
There is a similar satirical petition up for Donetsk to join the UK:
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26716281 Ukraine: Campaign for Donetsk ‘to join UK’
It’s good to see people keep their sense of humor in the west despite the hate propaganda blitz that’s going on in western media and from western regimes. It’s also heartening that people in the Ukraine are also able to do so, despite the intense divisiveness the western hegemon is inciting there.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 25 2014 20:09 utc | 125

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 25, 2014 3:52:10 PM | 118
“There’s one problem with what you are saying re the MSM, namely you’ll be excluded. The bbc, the guardian et al, routinely excise anything they don’t like.”
Not just the “MSM”:
Posted by: b | Mar 25, 2014 3:56:03 PM | 119
“just blocked Mr. Pragma and kalithea for lack of decency.”
It’s a common double standard among every Jewish dominated media sites that I’ve seen, whether MSM or alternative, left, middle or right.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 25 2014 20:15 utc | 126

Posted by: Knut | Mar 25, 2014 4:07:53 PM | 123
“To get back on topic: who ordered the hit?”
Some different questions. Why was he killed and not simply arrested? He was handcuffed, so his death was intentional. What threat was he to them alive, but in custody? How would he be more valuable dead, rather than alive?

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 25 2014 20:22 utc | 127

i have a feel like ut was a night of the long knives, as i said before

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 20:24 utc | 128

scalawag
# 127 As a warning?
#126 Yup.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 20:25 utc | 129

they can be a committed cadre a gangsters simultaneously
the loudmouth risked their imagined riches from the empire & e u

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 20:32 utc | 130

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25, 2014 4:25:56 PM | 129
“As a warning?”
Yup, that’s a good reason. Another I’ve seen is that the dead cant defend themselves when used as a fall guy for the crimes of others. As in pinning the Maidan snipers rap on good ole [dead] Sashko. This is a common tactic favored by western rulers. That might be something to look out for in the near future.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 25 2014 20:34 utc | 131

After the Fascists are purged from the Ukraine, perhaps they can be purged from Russia after Putin gets done using them. No?
The following is not surprising, but Putin’s latent xenophobia is showing. Shadows of Stalin and Hitler…but still just shadows. Still. For now.
Convenient Fascism

There are two ways to talk about a Russian person or thing in the Russian language. One way, “Rossisskii,” refers to Russian citizens and the Russian state. Someone who is ethnically Chechen, Tatar, or Ukrainian can be “Rossisskii” if they carry a Russian passport and live on Russian territory.
Up until now that is how Russian President Vladimir Putin has always referred to the Russian people. Even the rather aggressive pro-Putin Russian youth movement of a few years back, Nashi (or “ours”) — with its summer camps, mass calisthenics rallies, and ugly jeering at opposition politicians — was always careful to use the word “Rossisskii.” While some critics like Valeria Novodvorskaya portrayed Nashi as if it were some kind of updated version of the Hitler youth, the group in fact never took on an ethnic slant.
That all changed on Tuesday. In his Kremlin speech to the two houses of the Russian parliament, Putin made a fateful choice. Instead of sticking to the word “Rossisskii,” he slipped into using “Russkii,” the way to refer in the Russian language to someone who is ethnically Russian. Putin said, “Crimea is primordial “Russkaya” land, and Sevastapol is a “Russkii” city.” He went on to say, “Kiev is the mother of “Russkie” cities,” in a reference to the ancient city of Kievan Rus’. (This reference must have grated on the ears of Ukrainian nationalists; as scholar Andrew Wilson points out, the historiography of Rus’ is fraught with the question of contested national origins.)
When speaking of the collapse of the Soviet Union, Putin added, “Millions of ‘Russkii’ went to sleep in one country and woke up in another, instantly finding themselves ethnic minorities in former Soviet republics, and the ‘Russkii’ people became one of the largest, if not the largest, divided nation in the world.”
Putin thereby signaled a crucial turning point in his regime. He is no longer simply a Russian statist, an old KGB man who wants to recapture Soviet glory, as Brookings analysts Fiona Hill and Clifford Gaddy argued in their fascinating 2013 biography. Instead Putin has become a Russian ethnic nationalist.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 25 2014 20:34 utc | 132

..gossip column.
From pix it seems that Yats is extremely keen on Condoleeza Rice. 🙂 Mrs. Yats, beware!
Their first official meeting, in 2007. http://tinyurl.com/ozdmaar
He buddies up to her whenever and wherever he can and she seems to appreciate the attention. (OK anyone can make anything of a bunch of pix.)
More seriously, a partial summary of Yats’ social calendar for the year 2012.
Jan 27, Davos Ukrainian Lunch (photos) – April 4, Jarl Hjalmarson Foundation (Sweden) (photos) – April around 20, Kyiv Security Forum (photos) – 2-3 June, meets Komorowski (photos) – Sept 16, Yalta Annual meeting of YES, Yalta European Strategy (photos) – Oct 27, European Regional Meeting of the Trilateral commission (schedule – no photos.)
Kouchner and Soros appear close to him as well (in photos.)
See also Yats’ foundation Open Ukraine partners here:
http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners
which includes NATO – its info center! – ha ha. Plus de Dpt. of State, USA!
As I outlined a while ago how UDAR (The Boxer’s party) was founded 3 years ago as a more respectable alternative to Svoboda, basically, one supposes, by Merkel.
Yulia and Angie might just become more public, or not. Two of 50 or so kissy pix:
http://tinyurl.com/nd7uc6y
http://tinyurl.com/nsughtd
sigh.. I try to make light, and provide some content at the same time. Probably no use. But this is the last time I’m trying.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 25 2014 20:39 utc | 133

Luca
Precisely I come to this website for the comments and really appreciate many commentators who provide LINKS. But the daily rants on the same topic just became too much lately. As Rowan had disappeared for a while and left the threads a little bit less paranoid, the newbies started from day one of creation all over again. Frankly, people who come here know about it enough, and I understand Americans can become totally obsessed, but there is simply much more to the story.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 20:42 utc | 134

#132 Cold Hole
“Russian ethnic nationalist” You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 20:42 utc | 135

imo the biggest problem with the ongoing decline of the US is what happens with all our armaments.”

imo also. Signs of the inability to manage out nuclear stockpile are rampant.
Then there’s the issue of the local police, trained in military tactics, with all that heavy hardware. When choices get made under processes VERY different from “best practices” with that much potential for rather large mishaps, we may well have some unpleasant scenarios unfolding at home, as well as wherever the armaments are scattered overseas.
When Russia dissolved, (except for the looting of Soviet wealth under cover of privatization, US enabled), at least there was a party willing to be a chaperon. Should a similar meltdown/spring uprising occur domestically, who (if anyone) is envisioned to be the responsible adult to assist in a soft landing?

Posted by: erichwwk | Mar 25 2014 20:45 utc | 136

erichwwk # 136 I can’t imagine anybody wanting to come here and do it. Elsewhere, probably anyone who thinks they and their might be in the firing line?
We’re going to be on our own. And MAN, is it gonna get ugly.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 20:53 utc | 137

Rudy M@120: That’s as good as it gets for the NYT, which, all in all, I thought was a pretty decent piece, particularly on the trade war moves by the United States and Europe that preceded the putsch:

Andrew S. Weiss, who worked on Russia issues in the administrations of Presidents Bill Clinton and the elder George Bush and is now vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Mr. Putin’s actions were logical, even if not compatible with Western interests, in seeking to destabilize Ukraine rather than allowing it to fall into Europe’s sphere of influence.
“There is a very straight line rational strategy at work here,” Mr. Weiss said.
Mr. Weiss also said that Europe repeatedly refused to hear Russia’s concerns, effectively forcing a conflict by insisting the trade deal with Europe was incompatible with joining Russia’s customs union, a trade bloc it formed with Belarus and Kazakhstan. Europe also resisted three-way talks with Russia and Ukraine.
“In some ways the E.U. has taken maximalist positions with the Russians and acted as if they were surprised that Russia took offense or got angry,” Mr. Weiss said.

The NYT continues to downplay the U.S. role and the role of Right Sector and Svoboda in the putsch government, but I thought Herszenhorn’s story properly framed the crisis as an outcome of U.S./EU neoliberal expansionism.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 25 2014 21:04 utc | 138

i have not read one book on putin, in english french or italian which isn’t a misreading, often very profound misreading
instinctively, i think he is changing too but that is also within a changing dynamic of a larger society. it still seems to me an infantilised form of history to base it on one person, though sometimes people are a form of synthesis
in the same way andreotti was a man of synthesis of all that was corrupt in the italian republic, this man was its death

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 21:09 utc | 139

Noirette,
Thanks for the Julia/Angie pics. That’s truely eye opening indeed.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 21:11 utc | 140

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25, 2014 7:18:24 AM | 5
without Putin, thered be no russian people for yo to defend. How does russia differ from US or US or france? eams sort of people: the difference is the leadership: which means Putin
only a tool belives leadership is not important: that any leader is OK cause the people are what matter.
Seriously, you need to do a bit more investigation of these matters

Posted by: brian | Mar 25 2014 21:22 utc | 141

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25, 2014 7:18:24 AM | 5
without Putin, thered be no russian people for you to defend. How does russia differ from US or US or france? eams sort of people: the difference is the leadership: which means Putin
only a tool belives leadership is not important: that any leader is OK cause the people are what matter.
Seriously, you need to do a bit more investigation of these matters

Posted by: brian | Mar 25 2014 21:23 utc | 142

no you are wrong, quite wrong- societies remain complex mechacnisms, they are not a cartoon. the leadership comes as it does in venezuela by collective leadership, there it is open – in the west it is concealed because in that chorus are alos, self evidently ‘interests’

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 21:27 utc | 143

139) He is pretty impressive – he, or the people who wrote this speech.

The unipolar world that had been proposed after the Cold War did not take place either.
The history of humanity certainly has gone through unipolar periods and seen aspirations to world supremacy. And what hasn’t happened in world history?
However, what is a unipolar world? However one might embellish this term, at the end of the day it refers to one type of situation, namely one centre of authority, one centre of force, one centre of decision-making.
It is world in which there is one master, one sovereign. And at the end of the day this is pernicious not only for all those within this system, but also for the sovereign itself because it destroys itself from within.
And this certainly has nothing in common with democracy. Because, as you know, democracy is the power of the majority in light of the interests and opinions of the minority.
Incidentally, Russia – we – are constantly being taught about democracy. But for some reason those who teach us do not want to learn themselves.
I consider that the unipolar model is not only unacceptable but also impossible in today’s world. And this is not only because if there was individual leadership in today’s – and precisely in today’s – world, then the military, political and economic resources would not suffice. What is even more important is that the model itself is flawed because at its basis there is and can be no moral foundations for modern civilisation.
Along with this, what is happening in today’s world – and we just started to discuss this – is a tentative to introduce precisely this concept into international affairs, the concept of a unipolar world.
And with which results?
Unilateral and frequently illegitimate actions have not resolved any problems. Moreover, they have caused new human tragedies and created new centres of tension. Judge for yourselves: wars as well as local and regional conflicts have not diminished. Mr Teltschik mentioned this very gently. And no less people perish in these conflicts – even more are dying than before. Significantly more, significantly more!

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 21:30 utc | 144

Voice of Russia had a terrific interview with Edward S. Herman so I included key parts of in in this important video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUZi8vZ7nnk&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dTtNjUvtcsezs5WcoLqwTNe
(please use the Youtube tools to share it, more Americans need to hear these things, including what former Ambassador to USSR had to say (I included his key points in that video too)

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 25 2014 21:31 utc | 145

military strategy is the closest you get to classic leadership, but even there – there is synthesis, what made rokossovski such a deft general, it id not fall from the heavens, it was experience appropriation & listening – giap too listened
i am too tired tonight but there is a story about him & ho & dien bien phu by i will recount it at another time but it is about listening & shared leadership
it is the opposite to the elites & why i cannot support conspiracy theories, elites are organically divided by their interests
& in kiev tonight there is a lot of card plating & cleaning of guns

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 21:33 utc | 146

On a different note, enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-aO-5k-_g

Posted by: Mina | Mar 25 2014 21:35 utc | 147

Muzychko alive was worth more to Russian than Muzychko dead. No way the Russians killed him. He was a major embarrassment to the current Ukrainian junta. They couldn’t arrest and put him on trial because his backers have already shown their power on the street. A quick extra-judicial assassination was probably the best way to get him out of the way. Whoever inside the interior ministry ordered this probably also hoped that this might peal away some of the Right Secotor’s fellow travelers — opportunists and outright criminals — and weaker members of the movement. Maybe now they can arrest some of the other criminals in the right and put them on trial without having to worry about massive street demonstrations. The new government has just sent the right that good old fashioned Chinese lesson: better to kill one chicken to scare the monkeys than fighting all of the monkeys. It will be interesting in seeing how far this purge goes.
It does seem that some of the more fanatical Right Sector members might respond with their own assassinations against the current junta though it is very unlikely that such activity will gain them much support from the Ukrainian people.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 25 2014 21:35 utc | 148

Two attempts to post failed, most likely due to hyperlinks. Pls read my comment here …
Ultranationalist Leader in Maidan Protests Is Shot Dead in Ukraine (Video)
My diary @BooMan – Making An Enemy – Demonizing Putin Endangers America’s Security.

Posted by: Oui | Mar 25 2014 21:35 utc | 149

148
& rishs a sharing of the supposed spoils the empire will or will not be offerring

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 21:41 utc | 150

@somebody:
That Spiegel article is very illuminating. I haven’t seen any English language publication make the same point. What do you think the chances are that that article is going to end up in the international (English) edition?
The Steve Weissman piece is the best article I’ve seen showing how the coup is a US product.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25 2014 21:51 utc | 151

@ToivoS (148)
I was about to write a comment just along the same lines as yours, but you beat me to it!!! 🙂
I think either the West or the pro-West ukrainian neoliberals are behind the assassination. He was an excellent asset for Russia to use and expose the nature of the putsch government, so I highly doubt that it is Russians’ work. So I wont be surprised if it turns out that one of the Western intelligence services is behind it (Mossad comes to mind).

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 25 2014 21:51 utc | 152

@58 – william bowles. thanks for the article. it is quite insightful.
@123 – knut.. good ongoing question – who killed/murdered him? i don’t know that we will find out any time soon, if at all.. the blame will get spread around, but the questions will remain. think of how some do or don’t believe who was behind the feb 21st transition in ukraine. it all depends on the information given us, and how it gets filtered.
@132 – while the fascists are being purged from ukraine they can be purged from the usa starting with folks like nuland. that to my mind would be a good first step.

Posted by: james | Mar 25 2014 21:58 utc | 153

@Pirouz_2:
Why do you think a Western intelligence agency is behind the assassination? Ukrainian nationalists may be incapable of governing, but I’m sure they know how to get people killed.
Also, the head of Right Sector thinks the Ministry of Interior is behind the assassination.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25 2014 22:01 utc | 154

james #153 At the moment, they’re in the catbird seat. How on earth do you dislodge them? Obama theoretically had the opportunity — maybe he did, maybe he didn’t — but they’ve certainly risen like a phoenix from the ashes of Iraq. It really looked for a while like they’d been thoroughly discredited, but Kristol, Brooks, Cheney et. al. never really did admit any culpability in that hideous debacle, and I don’t see any efforts, anywhere, to purge them. Nuland never even got a rap on the fingers from what I can tell.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 22:09 utc | 155

@b,Why are you shunning the two best commentators on your site?I,for my part am coming here to read your invaluable and on the spot analysis and views but I frequent the comment section especially to read the intake of Mr.Pragma and Kalithea.Mr.Pragma had the chain of events proving him more than right and more than one time while at the same time he has made observations that I, a perfect nobody ,conserve in my heart very dearly.It is called food for thoughts,a very rare commodity these days and time.Plus nobody here can match his sarcastic sense of humor that is having a direct effect on my mood in these times where I see ALL what I love systematically destroyed and soiled in my native region.And that brings me to Kalithea who has expressed in my name and I am sure in the name of millions who have been traumatized and still are,ALL our feelings.Her analytical value is irreplaceable.So b,you have here a bunch of passionate and less passionate people commenting with more or less,me included ,value for the other readers,you have also a bunch of A… writing here but that is fine even if some of them make me cringe and think of the utility of the guillotine,because discussions entail two parts,OPPOSED.

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 25 2014 22:12 utc | 156

Well, well, this is good news indeed:
Most Americans don’t think the U.S. is obliged to intervene in the recent annexation by Russia of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea. A majority of 61 percent of Americans do not think the U.S. has a responsibility to do something about the situation between Russia and Ukraine, nearly twice as many as the 32 percent who think it does. There is widespread bipartisan agreement on this.
Public opinion about U.S. responsibility in Ukraine is similar to views about U.S. responsibility in other international conflicts. Majorities of Americans did not think the U.S. had a responsibility to intervene in Syria (68 percent), in the fighting and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia (65 percent) or in the mass killings in Rwanda (51 percent). In contrast, 54 percent of Americans believed the U.S. did have a responsibility to intervene in Kosovo, a situation where the U.S. began a bombing campaign against Serbian forces in cooperation with NATO.
More specifically, 65 percent of Americans do not think the U.S. should provide military aid and equipment to Ukraine in response to Russia’s actions, while only 26 percent think the U.S. should. Majorities of Republicans (59 percent), Democrats (67 percent), and independents (69 percent) are opposed to providing military aid and equipment to Ukraine.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-say-us-doesnt-have-a-responsibility-in-ukraine/
Unpacking just who exactly are Independents is a bit tricky, as a lot are Tea Party members and other such, while a smaller, shifting number are Dems who dislike the party but see no other options; very few tend to be genuinely undecided. And of course the proportions in there vary from state to state.
But it’s pretty safe to say the Rethugs and Rethug-leaners, for all their vainglorious militaristic spittle, are opposed to this, if only because it’s on Obama’s watch. That 67% of Dems, though, might — just might — be a sign of hope.
Here’s hoping!

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 22:18 utc | 157

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25, 2014 5:51:45 PM | 151
I think Germany has just withdrawn their support from “Yats” and “Klitsch”. I am not sure they want to translate that into English.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 22:20 utc | 158

somebody, # 158
How scared is Merkel? How vulnerable?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 22:22 utc | 159

159 – Why should she be scared? Obama said in an interview in the Netherlands that he does not want the EU to have to choose between Russia and the US.
As b. analysed there presumably is an US/Russian agreement on the federalization of Ukraine.
William Engdahl thinks Pravy Sector tries to clean their right wing image

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 22:33 utc | 160

Here the is the BRICS story has hit the WSJ:
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/T650zeLZqDbUJl5NhxgQ3M/BRICS-countries-oppose-ban-on-Vladimir-Putin-attending-G20.html

Posted by: Haralambos | Mar 25 2014 22:38 utc | 161

@b, I’ve tried to sort my thoughts a bit before responding to your banning kalithea and Mr. Pragma, but Nobody’s comment is sort of spurring me to action. After your warning, I was getting ready to ask you for further, more specific guidance, partly bc I know I’ve voiced some of the same stuff but also bc, at least to me, the big deal isn’t voicing it (as long as it doesn’t veer into any kind of supremacism), the big deal is the endless ad hominem garbage into which these discussions too easily descend (some of which, I might add, is still going on). But you only banned one “side” in this brouhaha, without even cautioning the other despite the obvious personal attacks and outrageous attempts at derailment.
I’m trying hard not to believe that the message to the rest of us is, “speak carefully about Israel and know that’s it’s fine for people to attack you outrageously for even doing that”. But I don’t really believe you mean that, do you? I know I’ve learned a lot from this site and I’d like to think I’ve contributed a bit, at least to peoples’ knowledge of how things work here. But I’m not feeling quite so free to do so right now, and I’d like to, very much. Maybe it’s just me, being a bit dense, but could you please explain things a bit further?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 22:42 utc | 162

Nora #157,
Self-determination is a very American idea. Woodrow Wilson made it prominent.
Also, perhaps most Americans remember that the Cold War was a struggle against an ideology, not a country. (At least, that’s how it was portrayed.) And despite their being brainwashed by TV, most Americans know that the US started wars of choice against two countries just in the past decade, one of which is continuing, so the hysterical rightful indignation at Russia bloodlessly regaining a little territory is something even they can see through.
Unsurprisingly, the 99% does not share the one per cent’s totalitarian impulse.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25 2014 22:47 utc | 163

@Nobody #156:
I think their not being able to keep themselves from replying to the Zionist trolls is what did those in. Still, it’s not exactly fair that they got banned but the trolls didn’t.
I learned things about Russia I never would have known if it wasn’t for Mr. Pragma.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25 2014 22:53 utc | 164

I wouldn’t have the guts to request any clear definition of fascist, or to rant about Zionism, but merely offer the mercifully brief evidence here that horrid Hitler was something else.
On this thread however, do observe that ultra-nationalism called fascist-ism & racism is strictly unique to that ancient race naturally superior to the rest of humanity; also that false flag nationalism – hate thy neighbour and hate Jews – is a routine globalist ploy. Routinely, as in Ukraine, their numbers are minuscule but highly organised and directed from the West. Also, amid current confusion/deception, those alien Hate freaks are getting recognised, and neutralised with attitude by blocs of frantic Ukrainians who don’t hate anybody.
And proof that racism does not really exist is that it is hurled only at whites, whatever a white is.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 25 2014 22:55 utc | 165

Posted by: Haralambos | Mar 25, 2014 6:38:04 PM | 161
sorry, not true, it is an Indian website, they just partner with the Wall Street Journal
BRICS Monday declaration that they support Russia still not in the Main Stream Media on Wednesday with the exception of Canadian The Globe and Mail, a declaration by Brazil, Russia, China, India, South Africa – more than half of the Globe, so probably an “international community”.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 23:04 utc | 166

On topic
Someone has mentioned before it’s not the style of police, SBU or other interior ministry operations to leave corpses for anyone to see they were done away like dogs. And if so it is a declaration of war.
Furthermore, if ever there was a normal bureaucratic command chain in the interior ministry and also in it’s services, now it is not. So if someone of the ministry declares, Avakov consigned the operation this means nothing. Avakov can’t afford to disclaim, can he?
So, talking about who did it, who ordered it, is guessing at most.
I think most of you, with the exception of ‘somebody’ perhaps, grossly underestimate what german services and their allies can and would do to counter the attack of US-led allies on them. Nuland et al should know well that they can inflict really serious damage on the RF solely, if they risk collapse of the world currency system. There are three power-centers, who could survive such a collapse.
1) China, because it can’t yet be isolated from the pacific without nuclear apocalypse.
2) The US, because they would nearly automatically turn into an allamerican block.
3) Germany. together with Austria, Swisse, Netherlands, Danmark and even Poland, because this is an economic power center that could, associated with russian and chinese assets, become a core of a new world-currency. German banks, investment fonds and private equity hold about one trillion foreign investments, a big deal of them industtial and commercial – not financial. It’s common knowledge, that Germany could give up the Euro and return to a Deutschmark if it decided so. It couldn’t be forclosed militarily, because occupation would destroy what is meant to be kept.
What the Nulands et al are doin in Ukraine is not chess, but a kind of straight line carambole with Russia and Germany-EU as alternate cue- and target-balls. But the “count” is done by driving the cueballs apart, not together, like in real carambole.
Why and to which end?
I can’t say that, because of lack of business english. But you can have a description by the old crook Soros himself, who argued publicly with Hans-Werner Sinn, President of the ifo-institution who is an intimate of German finance minister Schäuble, the real chancelor of Germany.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/soros-versus-sinn–the-german-question
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-resistible-fall-of-europe–an-interview-with-george-soros
http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2012-07-26-krastev-en.html
And in a new-year feature Soros announced nearly in plain words, that Merkel and Schäuble have to and will be pressed militarily because of their stubborn disobedience:
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/george-soros-maps-the-terrain-of-a-global-economy-that-is-increasingly-shaped-by-china
There you can also discern, what a bloody ignorant megalomaniac this old man is. This kind definitely doesn’t know with what they are gambling. Will of power overrules calculations.
Why is this so?
No, its not Zionism, its not dumbness or ignorance, nor greed, absence of ethics or the LUCIFER himself, it is just the rule of the game!
Because the “trick” of playing at this level consists in making your adversary responsible and the competent authority to avoid, minimize or dodge the damage done to drive him to the direction or place you want. This is the chess-component of such carambole.
And it’s simple. Every clerk and commercial officer has to learn this game to climb the echelon. The higher you end, the more reckless you have to be and can be.
So the Germans have their counter-game in Ukraine, and if anyone asks I shall make the effort to translate some parts of this German think – tank paper.
Or perhaps b or somebody take over here:
http://www.swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/aktuell/2014A15_hln_stw.pdf

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 25 2014 23:15 utc | 167

I recall the day when b carefully parsed the universe of conflict in Iraq as venerable nationalism versus “US imperialism.” b discovered pretty nuances in the complicated leaderships of Qaddafi, the Iranian mullahs, and the most “gracious” leadership of Assad. The sensitivities to the particularities of these multifarious conflict was weepingly sophisticated.
But, now, every Ukrainian stashing piles of rocks to throw at Russian tanks is a “fascist.” So much for nuance. Who doesn’t like an overarching, overlording concept in service of convenient dogmatism?
Make no mistake, if the Russians re-invaded Afghanistan tomorrow, b would declare V. Putin as the Archangel of freedom.
You’re a joke.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 25 2014 23:16 utc | 168

the brics agreement was run on telesur television in spanish

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 25 2014 23:20 utc | 169

#168:
What content can there possibly be to Ukrainian nationalism other than fascism? Even Ukrainian nationalist leaders speak Russian with each other. The Russian and Ukrainian ethnicities are pretty much identical, since the two populations are so intermixed. Ukrainians make borsch with beets; Russians make it without beets. Ukrainians like salo; Russians don’t. What other difference is there, other than Ukrainians having feelings of resentment against Russians for various irrational reasons?
As for Afghanistan, nobody denies that the life of Afghans was much better when Afghanistan was in the Russian sphere of influence than it is now.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 25 2014 23:31 utc | 170

Well, the ethnicities and histories of, say, Galicia and the Donetsk area are totally different: Rusyns/Ruthenians don’t consider themselves Russian and certainly under the Austro-Hungarian Empire German, or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the formal languages were German and Polish, not Russian. So it’s only a rather ugly 20th century history that ties this “country” together, just as other groups of peoples were under other rules of Empire (see: Africa, the Middle East, etc.).
Can groups with such a disparate history learn to live together as one nation? Does anyone have any examples, because what I’m thinking is, they really have to *want* to, rather than having it imposed on them. Whereas in Ukraine…

Posted by: Nora | Mar 25 2014 23:44 utc | 171

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 25, 2014 7:15:45 PM | 167
The think tank paper you quote last is basically what Der Spiegel article reports, they are recommending Germany/EU dialogue with all political actors and all parts of society of Ukraine, and steps of money given tied to political actions.
If that think tank paper gets translated into reality (which I doubt) Ukrainians will have not just lost economic sovereignty but political sovereignty, too.
There is a huge black hole in the think tank paper – they assume full EU power/funding and ignore Russian presence in Ukrainian politics.
It will crash down when the money gets counted I suppose.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 25 2014 23:45 utc | 172

somebody | Mar 25, 2014 7:45:01 PM | 172

If that think tank paper gets translated into reality (which I doubt) Ukrainians will have not just lost economic sovereignty but political sovereignty, too.

No. There is no sovereignty left over for years. Ukraine is plundered and bankrupt, its industries at the brink of collapse. Reconstruction and modernization would need several 100 billion Dollars. I’ll find the links tomorrow, but Putin also said this in this four-hour press conference three month ago. The resources would have to be capitalized nearly from zero on, not only for the EU but also for the russian demand.

There is a huge black hole in the think tank paper – they assume full EU power/funding and ignore Russian presence in Ukrainian politics.

No, not exactly. The paper proposes peacemeal setting of new standards, acquisition, investment, moderization lead by EU (German) capital. That implies russion-ukrainian trade and cooperation going on and becoming part of it. Its a partition – plan, but with power sharing and that should exactly fit into Putin’s plans and wishes. Demilitarizing, putting the “devil” in the details and the fight on the local level.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 0:17 utc | 173

“piecemeal” – sorry for that, it’s late in Berlin.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 26 2014 0:26 utc | 174

I dont mind the banter/sparring but when it consumes 50% of the topic and not on topic it becomes anal. So do a vit of krav maga while on topic at least for the rest in mind.

Posted by: kjs | Mar 26 2014 0:26 utc | 175

@173 I think you are right. Too many people have bought into the ‘evil Putin’ propaganda. They assume he is out to ‘grab land’ or make life miserable for Ukrainians in some way. Crimea is back where it belongs (thanks to American miscalculation)….now people just need to let the dust settle.

Posted by: dh | Mar 26 2014 0:29 utc | 176

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 25, 2014 8:17:12 PM | 173
Yep, that is the point. I see Russian capital, but not EU (German) capital.
Remember they are gazprom and we pay for the stuff.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 0:35 utc | 177

Putin is not an “ethnic nationalist.” By appealing occasionally to the Russian core Slav dominant group is he not advocating removal or suppression of any other Russian grouping.

Posted by: truthbetold | Mar 26 2014 0:40 utc | 178

There is another issue. If German capital takes over it would end like the take over of the GDR – ie de industrialization.
Ukrainian market is fine, but not Ukrainian competition.
Ukrainian industry is competitive – arms come to mind, lots of other stuff. Both Russia and Germany have an interest in talking the value down, if they plan a take over. And that is what they do.
The money talked about is not for investment, it is to pay Ukraine’s creditors.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 0:45 utc | 179

@Demian (#154)
Obviously I don’t have any evidence, so what I am doing is just speculation based on common sense.
I think Muzychko had become a liability for the putsch government (for the sects of the putsch which were favourite puppets of the West)
Russians were using his actions in a very effective manner to expose the true face of the Western supported putsch government and they really had no reason to kill him.
As ToivoS very beautifully said, he was much more useful to the Russians alive than dead. So I don’t think that Russians were behind the assassination.
I don’t think that the right sector and Svoboda was behind the killing as Muzychko was one of the right sector’s leaders (and I don’t think the right sector thought of him as an embarressment or a liability) and I don’t see Svoboda as different from the right sector.
There remains the rest of the putsch government. It is quite possible that those guys were behind the assassination but then again people like Yatsenyuk and klitschko are just western puppets and would not make any such move without their masters knowledge and approval. Were they capable of carrying out such an attack? I really don’t know. I don’t know anything about the challenges involved in carrying such an action nor do I know the capabilities of the putsch government. Maybe they could do it without the help from the Western intelligence services.
All I am saying is that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that one of the western intelligence services -say Mossad for example, they are good at assassination, and the fascists were doing anti-semitic attacks too- is behind the killing.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 26 2014 0:45 utc | 180

I think the proof will be in the pudding. I.e., will more thugs get killed, or will they just fade away? And which ones? What other attacks will be made, and on whom? Bullies tend to be cowards so this warning may suffice, but, another hackneyed phrase, violence begets violence, so will any particular group now feel emboldened?
My best guess is, this was done by pros, and therefore somebody had to pay them. But it didn’t have to be from, or at the order of, say, Merkel, or Obama — the actual order/decision could have been quite a bit further down the food chain.
In any case, what happens next will be telling. Even if it’s nothing at all.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 0:52 utc | 181

@slothrop Make no mistake, if the Russians re-invaded Afghanistan tomorrow, b would declare V. Putin as the Archangel of freedom.
There is actually someone presently invading Afghanistan. Though no bad words for them ever pass slothrop’s lips.
Slothrop seems surprised that the Iraq war – one of the most craven and cowardly butcheries perpetrated by a powerful nation on a weaker nation in all of history – should have radicalized people. Just because the hundreds of thousands of dead and millions displaced didn’t appear to have much of an impact on you, doesn’t mean the rest of us are so devoid of a sense of justice.
………
@Nora I’m trying hard not to believe that the message to the rest of us is, ‘speak carefully about Israel’
I’m sorry Nora, but I saw no actual conversation regarding Israel or its policies. I don’t think you should take b’s extinguishing of a flame war as some evidence of MoA’s desire to “tread lightly” on Israel.
Mr. Pragma got a bit of a raw deal. There is certainly enough blame to go around. The accusations of “anti-semite” when all he really was doing was making idiotic jokes is ridiculous. His tactless “jewland” comments might make him a crass clown when he makes them, but they do not make him an anti-semite. Anti-semites do not make jokes – they make accusations. They do vicious deeds. So that was absolute hyperbole and those who engaged in it, I think, should, at the very least, not feel so sure of themselves.
But Mr. Pragma and others should know that being disgusted by such witless comments doesn’t make one “a zionist”. People do not like things that smack of bigotry. It is that simple. What’s more – is actually quite disgusting to try and cover ones predilection for offensive jokes by invoking one of the greatest struggles of ours or any time – the struggle against Zionism. That was equally foolish talk on his and Kalietha’s part. Perhaps this corrective will help Mr. Pragma realize that It is not some great virtue to be offensive. It is simply crass and dull.
That said, this is a bit of a surprise. Mr. Pragma’s commentary was extremely valuable and on point. Especially in regards to his breaking down American exceptionalism and his insights into Russia. I hope that it would somehow be possible for him to return, and soon.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 0:56 utc | 182

as the sicilians say look who brings flowers to his funeral

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 0:58 utc | 183

enough r’giap, they’re gone, you’ve “won” — aren’t you tired of it yet?
And guest77, I’m pretty sure we talked about Israel and its policies — I know I did. And I also know I’m going to miss kalithea’s passion and Mr. P’s knowledge.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 1:07 utc | 184

nora i am speaking of the late & unlamented ukrainian hoodlum & führer to be

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 1:16 utc | 185

Okie,
Perhaps there are wish lists, and plans running from A to F. So the Syrian war has been a relative failure, but they did succeed in destroying the economy for many, many years, and making it so pipelines and gas development are going to be hard to do. In the case of the Ukraine, destroying the economy in the East and kicking out Russia from the Crimea would have been high goals, but just weakening Russia’s economy and image would be lower ones.
Mr P.,
ZATO neutrality means they will come in as advisors and such. The media in the West is controlled, so they won’t say the US is breaking some treaty. In other words, who cares if Russia complains? Anyway, the problem is that the Ukraine doesn’t have a real state, just some corrupt oligarchs willing to sell everything.
As for protecting the Eastern Ukraine, well, first, who is going to capture these Blackwater guys? They travel in groups. Next, what about Odessa, or areas far from Russian soil? Can Russia deal with serious oppression there? It’s entirely possible that ethnic cleansing or nastiness will aim at those areas.

Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 26 2014 1:18 utc | 186

US seem to live in a parallel world – Robert Gates

He (Putin) also has a dramatically different worldview than the leaders of Europe and the U.S. He does not share Western leaders’ reverence for international law, the sanctity of borders, which Westerners’ believe should only be changed through negotiation, due process and rule of law. He has no concern for human and political rights. Above all, Mr. Putin clings to a zero-sum worldview. Contrary to the West’s belief in the importance of win-win relationships among nations, for Mr. Putin every transaction is win-lose; when one party benefits, the other must lose. For him, attaining, keeping and amassing power is the name of the game.

Western investment in Russia should be curtailed; Russia should be expelled from the G-8 and other forums that offer respect and legitimacy; the U.S. defense budget should be restored to the level proposed in the Obama administration’s 2014 budget a year ago, and the Pentagon directed to cut overhead drastically, with saved dollars going to enhanced capabilities, such as additional Navy ships; U.S. military withdrawals from Europe should be halted; and the EU should be urged to grant associate agreements with Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.

I think we should give them the “mad” treatment. The first part is obviously what psychologists call projection.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 1:26 utc | 187

article some might enjoy.
http://www.winterpatriot.com/node/830

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2014 1:31 utc | 188

somebot
even the really mad are not capable of writing such endless shit, gates, absolutely drenched in blood has nor right, no mind, to give lessons to anyone anywhere about anything
if we want the language of the end of the empire we have to look no further than gates ‘reflection’

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 1:32 utc | 189

somebudy 187

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 1:33 utc | 190

189) Yep. Lost contact with reality.
“New Europe” is not going to make it.

Economic sanctions against Russia would endanger some 20,000 jobs in the Czech Republic in the first stage but their secondary effect could hit up to 50,000 people due to the ties of a high number of sub-suppliers to Czech exporters, according to the Economic Chamber’s survey.
The chamber has therefore called on Czech politicians to be sober in their stance and actions during talks about potential sanctions against Russia due to Ukraine which are the topic of a EU summit Thursday.
The political pressures came at a wrong time, the chamber said. The number of new orders has started growing and after a hard period of time, companies are finally able to start growth.
Russia and Ukraine rank among the key territories for Czech exporters.
The current volume of exports to Russia is Kc116bn a year. Moreover, Russia ranks first among the Czech Republic’s trading partners outside of the EU.
Exports to Ukraine are worth Kc35bn. Despite the seemingly not too high share in Czech exports, Russia and Ukraine have been lately showing a two-digit growth.

Go US, go pivot to China.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 1:36 utc | 191

Maybe this is a good time to repurpose an old lawyer joke:
What do you call the death of one Ukrainian fascist? A good start.
Assuming I have the right guy, the Interior Minister who the Right Sektor fascists are demanding resign is not even a Ukrainian – what must the ultra-nationalists think about that? He is also, apparently, on Interpol’s most wanted list. A minor detail for a high government minister in the putsch government..
Nora is right: will more thugs get killed… And which ones? What other attacks will be made, and on whom? will answer the question of wether we are looking at a “night of long knives” or the beginning of a general power struggle between the far-right and the center-right. This is the moment where I think we’ll start to see the government either come together, or completely fall to pieces.
As pointed out many times here: if the Right Sektor intends to put on the suits and ties and get involved in politics, then cleaning house of their most malevolent publicity seeking thugs (and he was that) is certainly in their favor. After all, Muzychko was the “star” of some of the worst videos to come out of Ukraine. And these videos mean just about everything these days. They are the lifeblood of fourth generation war. One only has to consider the utter embarrassment – not lived down to this day – that the cannibal video gave to the Free Syrian Army. Perhaps this is an attempt by the new government, Right Sektor included, to prevent any such unfortunate media spectacles.
This seems to be a crucial moment – Russia has made its moves and seems to be staying put, at least for the moment. The US/EU have met with Yatsenyuk and he knows the limits of their support. It is now time for the top leadership of all of those parties involved in the putsch to either congeal into something resembling a functioning government, or to start killing each other ruthlessly.
I hope for the second, personally. Mounting chaos in the west of Ukraine would put the reduce to nothing the effectiveness of the governing “coalition”, it wouldd ease the pressure on the Russian speakers in the east, and it would seriously begin to freak out the EU.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 1:39 utc | 192

@187 somebody
Thanks for the laugh. Just when you think they couldn’t get any more self-righteous.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 1:49 utc | 193

As a relative newcomer to the site I am really disappointed to see the bans which took place above. I deeply appreciate a site like this one for the excellent links and diverse commentary which the community bring. I have found myself more and more often landing here first in my search for insight on events, and to escape the vacuum of US MSM I like to read the commentary of the Maoist as well as the anti Zionists. When they get to flinging mud it is sometimes amusing, when it gets lame and boring it’s not exactly difficult to SCROLL ON BY. They do not, in my opinion, detract at all from the site; they are quite knowledgeable and articulate, as is the Maoist. But, this is the thing, the Maoist on his own is going to be DREADFULLY BORING. For a blog, content is everything, and these commentistas are your content creators. I truly believe that when the ban-hammer comes out, the blog is doomed. Sad to have to keep looking… thought I had found a goodie.

Posted by: Chas | Mar 26 2014 1:57 utc | 194

#187 r’giap, I am so glad! :~) That guy was one sick pup. I wonder if even his mother misses him.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 1:58 utc | 195

104) I am surprised at your interest as the so called “anti-zionists” kept repeating themselves.
Anyway “Die Linke” paper “Junge Welt” has found another culprit for the extermination of Pravy Sector – the European Union.

Die EU hatte die Entmachtung der nichtstaatlichen Milizen zu einer Bedingung für Finanzhilfe an Kiew gemacht.

The EU conditioned financial help on the disempowerment of the non state militias.
duh!

Posted by: somebody | Mar 26 2014 2:04 utc | 196

Paul Craig Roberts with a bit of American history, i.e., same stuff different century:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/25/three-who-made-a-war/

Posted by: Nora | Mar 26 2014 2:08 utc | 197

very simple to me, i am not here for the entertainment
b has built a solid bar that has lasted the test of time & has had many many many guests; some get thrown out, on occasion, i think i may have been too, at some time
b tolerates more than i or many others could & he has given us over a decade of prose that has perceived much
if people wear out their welcome here then b is as i said more tolerant than i am so a better judge witness what is covered here & i dont see any groupthink, i never have

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 2:08 utc | 198

no i am convinced it was one of his own, the night of the long knives, they like that kind of mythology – his loudmouth & bad lanners led him where the normally lead
honestly other than a failed state – the empire & the eu are clueless but already clear that they have opposite obkectives even though the eu is also a vassal bloc

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 26 2014 2:12 utc | 199

@james 188 Who is trolling who here?

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 26 2014 2:14 utc | 200