Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 9, 2014
Ukraine: No Obama, It Is Not A Personal Issue

The United States and its appendixes seems to believe that the "isolation" of Russia with regards to Crimea is:

  1. feasible and
  2. can get Russia to withdraw from Crimea.

Both believes are obviously wrong.

It may be possible to somewhat "isolate" Iran or North Korea. But Russia is a veto wielding member of the UN Security Council and has lots of strategic nuclear weapon capabilities. The two biggest countries of the world, China as well as India, have already taken Russia's side. Economic pressure on Russia would hurt Europe and others more than it would hurt Russia.

Obama seems to see this as a personal conflict with Putin. Only an extraordinary narcissist could have such idea. It is not "Putin" who is taking back Crimea, it is Russia. No Russian president could have acted different without losing legitimacy in the eyes of his people. The White House thinking, as explained in this weeks Swoop, is therefore simply crazy:

[T]he perception is rising in the White House that, rightly or wrongly, the crisis has become a personal contest which can only be settled between Obama and President Putin. NSC officials tell us that this is both an advantage in that it lends weight to the exchanges between the two men and a drawback in that it involves Obama more intensively in the management of the crisis than he would otherwise wish.

As an NSC official commented to us: “Against all the odds, Obama continues to believe that he can do a deal with Putin. His telephone exchanges lead him to conclude that Putin is intent on building a position of strength from which he will then negotiate.” From talking to other high-level contacts in Washington, our sense is that Obama’s conviction that a deal is doable is not widely shared. Even in the State Department there are senior officials who are much less optimistic that Putin is interested in negotiating. The Pentagon is also skeptical …

Obama is very wrong in this.

Yes, Russia would make a deal. It has offered it several times but it seems that no one is listening. Russia wants a return to the paper signed on February 21 by Yanukovich, opposition leaders and three EU foreign ministers. That paper sets out a national unity government and a continued presidency for Yanukovich until new presidential elections this fall. Go back to that paper and Crimea may be allowed to stay as an autonomous federal entity within the Ukraine. Without any fulfillment of the Feb 21 deal the Crimea will soon be part of the Russian Federation.

Unfortunately no one has taken up Russia's offer and Obama, by threatening Russia, has already taken away his own ability to go back to that deal. The Republicans and Democratic Russiaphobes would eat him alive if he would try that now. Instead clumsy efforts are made to put "pressure" on Russia. The Kremlin will just laugh off sanctions and such. Take THIS deal or the Crimea is gone. If you can't take THIS deal, well, then the Crimea is gone.

According to this (translated from Kommersant) Putin himself had a hand in making the Feb 21 deal:

A Russian diplomatic source confirmed the statement by Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski that it was Vladimir Putin who, during a telephone conversation on February the 21st, convinced Yanukovich to make concessions to the opposition. According to this source, Vladimir Putin urged Yanukovich to abandon plans for a state of emergency and begin negotiations with the opposition to stop the bloodshed.

According to the source, President Barrack Obama and the leaders of Germany, France and Poland, requested Putin to influence Yanukovich on this matter. In return, these countries promised the Kremlin that they would ensure that the Ukrainian opposition would hold up their end of the agreement of February the 21st, which included the creation of a government of `National Unity`, constitutional reforms, early elections and surrendering the illegally acquired weapons. `Yanukovich completely fulfilled his side of the agreement but the opposition did not comply with anything`, the source said. `Now the EU and US wants us to behave like there was no agreement in the first place and `look ahead` but we will not do this.

If this is correct, and I believe it is, then the blowing up of the February 21 deal and the recognition of the coup government by the United States and the EU is another case of showing Putin and thereby Russia the dirty finger. But Russia is back. It will no longer accept such insults.

It is completely wrong by Obama to personalize the conflict. This is not about Putin or Obama at all. It is not a pissing contest and not about dick lengths. Ukraine is very near to Russia's national interest and very far away from the United States. Obama should accept that and let Russia, for once, have its interests acknowledged. Instead he is taking another step on the escalation ladder where each step up makes it much more difficult to come down again to sane grounds.

Comments

Merkel: She only offered criticism of the situation in Crimea, not Russia’s stance as a whole, suggesting she’s splitting hairs – to have her cake and eat it too.
O’s intention: Zbig has O’s ear first of all, but the neocons in State all still have their jobs, despite O having a chance to fire them when the phone leaks came out. Although it’s obvious that O isn’t in charge of US foreign policy, he’s quite willing to ‘enforce’ what TPTB are recommending/dictating. Looking at O’s record, both domestically and foreign policy-wise it’s obvious he’s a neoliberal shill, PLUS, onboard with the neocon strategy to establish US full-spectrum-dominance of the entire world – which fits perfectly with neoliberal orthodoxy to privatize all govts on the planet.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 10 2014 7:54 utc | 101

@95…
san fran used to be so politically aware

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 9:12 utc | 102

Ha ha ha, its a laugh a minute with these clowns. The Ukrainian News:

The Shevchenkivskyi District Court of Kyiv has ordered detention of Pavlo Hubariov, the commander of the Donetsk People’s Self-Defense organization and the self-proclaimed governor of Donetsk, for two months., the press service of the Security Service of Ukraine said. […]
According to the statement, criminal proceedings have been launched against Hubariov under Section 1 of Article 109 (actions aimed at violent change or overthrow of the constitutional order or seizure of state power), Section 2 of Article 110 (infringement of the territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine), and Article 341 (seizure of government or public buildings or structures) of the Penal Code. […]

Here we have a self appointed regime in Kiev, which just has just violently changed or overthrown the constitutional order and seized state power, as well as government or public buildings or structures, having the gall to arrest this man on those very charges. Kafka could hardly have written a better story.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 10 2014 9:14 utc | 103

brian
Jed Sunden for one funds the FEMEN, look him up.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 9:38 utc | 104

Some fresh news from Ukraine. The Russian language Ukrainian Pravda closed and went underground: http://ukrpravda.ua/news/ukrainskaya-pravda-blagodarit-svoih-chitateley. With maybe one exception, most Ukrainian sites pump pro-junta news that can be basically summarized: the Americans and NATO will go to war for us and make Russia pay! The EU will take us in, give us money and impose sanctions on Russia. A selection:
US will give Ukraine gas!:http://www.epravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/7/425847/
EU opens its markets to Ukrainian products: http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/7/7018006/
EU will sign the “political portion” of association with Ukraine before the May 25 elections: http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/6/7017941/
The above articles are from Ukraine Pravda, a newspaper started by Georgiy Gongadze, a pro-West journalist who was kidnapped and beheaded presumably because he exposed corruption.
The US will answer Russia by using it military (literal translation): http://tyzhden.ua/News/104405
In this light, a lot is expected from the meeting between Obama and the junta leadership on March 12.
I would imagine if the lofty expectations of gas, guns and $$$ do not materialize, the regime may find itself falling apart.
The neonazi “right sector” demands that the oligarch “government” parade before them on Maidan for approval. Their leader will participate in the May elections.
b was correct regarding criminality. The crime rate around Kiev is up: http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1314514-ozbroyeni-banditi-grabuyut-pidpriyemtsiv-na-kiyivschini-vidayuchi-sebe-za-yevromaydanivtsiv
The struggle between Rusyns and Cossaks is picking up in the East. An anti-junta leader from Donbas was grabbed by the Rusyns and moved to Kiev. Some other freedom fighters were also captured, but then freed by their brethren who attacked a police convoy. Dissatisfaction with the new regime has crept all the way to Poltava region.
As you may remember, the junta called up reservists. Nothing about it is in the news, which suggests to me that that was a total none-starter. Instead, the news is that military units from the Galicia are mobilized. Some news sources report that the military echelons are being applauded as they are moving toward Crimea…

Posted by: CC | Mar 10 2014 10:15 utc | 105

Oligarchs in east are created by WEST Banks. Oligarchs have access to credits. The City of London needs Oligarchs to survive. The Putsch in Ukraine is a stress test to Oligarchs. Their future is in danger. So EU is
playing bad game. EU has no interest in democracy in east. EU is now nacked.
Krim is essential for Russia to stop flow of weapons go in ukraine and russia

Posted by: ZX | Mar 10 2014 10:16 utc | 106

This just in Yanukovich will make a statement on Tuesday:
http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/10/7018267/
Rumors have been circulating that he had a heart attack and is near death.

Posted by: CC | Mar 10 2014 10:19 utc | 107

BTW,
There was a post that started “Ukraine is not a banana republic”. It was from “Borotba”. Do you have a web site?

Posted by: CC | Mar 10 2014 10:20 utc | 108

@99
two months — until after the elections… that’s they guy that I mention who got grabbed.

Posted by: CC | Mar 10 2014 10:31 utc | 109

Nothing short of a call on the people of Ukraine to rise against the junta would suffice from Yanukovich at this point. Admittedly a very very far fetched outcome would be for Yanukovich to engineer a push back against the occupiers, ride into Kiev and restore the office of the President. Then call for the next elections and leave the political life…

Posted by: CC | Mar 10 2014 10:42 utc | 110

Wow, they even trotted out the Grand Master of Failed Afghanistan Policy on this one:
“Brzezinski: The strategy of the West at this moment should be to complicate
Vladimir Putin’s planning. He should be given options to avoid conflict. But
he should also be made aware of the very negative consequences for Russia that
would follow the outbreak of armed conflict.
By options, I mean that we should indicate to Russia that we prefer a peaceful accommodation in Ukraine, and NATO should invite the Russians to participate
in its ongoing discussions about this crisis.
But, at the same time, we should let the Russians know we are not going to be
passive. First, we have to formally recognize the (illegitimate fascist) new
government (pro tem) in the Ukraine (without holding national elections), which
I believe expresses the will of the people there. (Ha, yeah, like Karzai
represented the will of the Afghan people.) It is the legitimate (sic) government.
And interference in Ukrainian affairs should be considered a hostile act by a
foreign power. (sic’r … UK/US State put their shoulder to the fascist coup).
Further, we should put NATO contingency plans into operation, deploying forces
in Central Europe so we are in a position to respond if war should break out
and spread. (code word for USA will provoke war to create perpetual conflict
drawing Russia away from Syria aid).
Any compromise solution that is acceptable for Russia as well as the West —
and that will avoid war and give the Ukrainians some hope of a future — will
involve serious economic aid and investment. Since Germany is the most
prosperous and strongest economy in the EU, it should take the lead.”
Sincerely,
The Big Zbig
————–
I’ve said it all along, MoA is too invested in the myth of ‘politics of change’. This is mafia oil cartels going at it. Like commenting on a komodo dragon dragging down a tethered goat. ‘Shoot her!’ The best strategy is to look away. Focus on where political analysis offers faint hope to the lost, otherwise this over-long thread topic borders on twaddle.
Sorry. I’m out.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 10 2014 10:45 utc | 111

#100 – thanks for the tip on Jed Sunden and FEMEN. No wonder the media is so lavish with attention to FEMEN and Pussy Riot.

Posted by: Ralph Spoilsport | Mar 10 2014 11:23 utc | 112

Ukrainian Defense News Network
26 mins ·
Unconfirmed:
“1,5 hour ago a column of buses left from Kharkiv to Donetsk and Lugansk – 28 large buses and 20 smaller “Gazell”-type with armed mercenaries of the Right Sector and foreign mercenaries – hired private mercenaries by the U.S. and Britain. +/- 400 people . All dressed in the form of the Ukrainian police. Probably there are some snipers among them.
Purpose – create a massacre and blame it on Russia, and give a chance to rise for the U.S. and NATO and let them bring their special forces “to restore order” & “protect the public”.
As well as to capture airfields in Donetsk and Lugansk region for landing of heavy transport aircraft. This special operation as a counter measure against Russia over the Crimea and revenge.”
– Source: Truth about the Situation in Ukraine FB group
– Posted by Mark Sleboda
https://www.facebook.com/ukrainiandefensenewsnetwork/photos/a.525787304207006.1073741827.525764934209243/532498763535860/?type=1&theater

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 11:33 utc | 113

protect the public?!

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 11:33 utc | 114

@95 wow. Really. Hook line and sinker. When rock n roll and art can be so easily bent to suck up to US murder policy – culturally, we’re finished.
@Juan great posts
@jSor baby/bathwater. don’t do it.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 10 2014 12:01 utc | 115

@95 i blame Vice media for a lot of this shit. Bad people, them.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 10 2014 12:02 utc | 116

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 3h
March 10: Govt of #Sevastopol, #Crimea, #Ukraine makes #Russian the official language for state/public documentation http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201403101044-a0h3.htm
———-
this will go down well in Kiev

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 12:09 utc | 117

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 5h
Govt of #Crimea prepares for possible diversions, incl. shutting off water & electricity by #Kiev http://goo.gl/C1mo3G #prepping #collapse

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 12:10 utc | 118

Out of the shadows …
Why is this “American agent”, an Ukrainian MP for the Fatherland party, quoted as a reliable source by the Washington Post?

Ukraine Partners Chesno (Honestly) – USAID
Publication in Дзеркало Tizhnya – Hennadii Moskal, MP from the Fatherland party [id. MP with sniper rifle in car], accuses:
WhoIs Hennadii Moskal
Not at all surprised, a USAID funded NGO Chesno with previous funding by Omidyar.

More goodies to follow, I will update here @MofA and @BooMan.

Found out shill-reporting for Russian oligarchs at Bad Orange and US websites using MP Hennadii Moskal as source. See The Interpreter and project for Modern Russia, registered by Pavel Petrovich Ivlev, ex Yukos lawyer.

    The Interpreter is underwritten by two registered non-profit organizations: the London-based Herzen Foundation [??] and the New York-based Institute of Modern Russia, of which the journal is a special project.
    Both organizations are committed to the advancement of democratic values and institutions in the Russian Federation.
    For More Information:
    http://www.interpretermag.com
    Twitter: @Interpreter_Mag

USAID projects for Democracy, Human Rights and Governance
Full story written here – Ukraine Partners Chesno (Honestly) – USAID.

Posted by: Oui | Mar 10 2014 12:16 utc | 120

dick cheyney is back again, now against russia.
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/03/10/354067/cheney-wants-military-option-on-russia/

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 12:22 utc | 121

William Hague has misled parliament on the legality of the coup in Ukraine,see my earlier comments at 57 and 58, will other members of parliament ask him to apologize? Late last year Hague asked parliament to take the UK to war against Syria, thankfully the British public rejected this call by pressuring its MP’s to vote against. Surely a Foreign Secretary whose call to war is soundly rejected must resign his position, that’s the least an honorable man should do.

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 10 2014 12:41 utc | 122

harrylaw
Do you got any sources for your claim, not saying you are wrong just want to get more info on this.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 13:19 utc | 123

brian (109)
Great news. That delivers evidence, witnesses, and training targets for well trained and armed ethnic (or actual) Russian forces that will by some coincidence be waiting for the terrorists.
Rest assured that Russia knew about those busses before they left Kharkov.
But it’s good for another reason, too. This will strongly suggest a need for the Russian army to protect all eastern and southern region.
Another remark on merkel.
Who was the one who proudly let the world know about her powerful suggestion to Putin during a phone conference to let in “neutral observers” into Crimea? Right, that was merkel bitch (Putins answer actually was sth. like “OK, one might principally discuss about that” which is far from saying “Yes, we’ll do that”)
And when trying it the OSZE observers got sent back right at the Crimea border. Actually the Crimea militia even shot warning shot.
That’s a MAJOR slap right into merkel bitch’s face. As I said; My understanding is that Putin’s patience with that snake has ended and now she’s uo for major trouble.
Hahaha. Great!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 10 2014 13:22 utc | 124

Anonynous @119 David Morrison at Huffington Post UK here..http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/ukraine-willliam-hague_b_4933177.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 10 2014 13:43 utc | 125

Guest77
The Strange Death… is very good. I also liked The Era of Good Feeling.
ZX: Either the state rules the oligarchs or the oligarchs rule the state. And, as you point out, the banks rule the oligarchs which means that…

Posted by: bevin | Mar 10 2014 14:00 utc | 126

Truth about situation in Ukraine shared a link.
25 minutes ago
Mariupol metallurgical enterprises rally with the slogans “Fascism will not pass!” “Mariupol, get up!”, “NATO – no!”, “Capitalism – no!” “Freedom for Gubarev,” “Russia for us!”
The fact is most employees of the region were forbidden to participate in pro-Russian rallies, the were threatened not only with a dismissal, but some from police with three years of prison.
At the meeting various social organizations, religious communities and nations – the Azov Greeks, Germans and Russian Jews were represented. At the end of the meeting a list with 10 demands was issued.
http://odnarodyna.com.ua/content/mariupol-prigrozil-ostanovkoy-metallurgicheskih-predpriyatiy-foto

Posted by: brian | Mar 10 2014 14:30 utc | 127

Is anyone familiar with this location, what does Google Maps hide??
Schloßplatz 3 10178 Berlin, Germany —

Google location shows a fogged/blanked building … hmmm.
Link here.

Posted by: Oui | Mar 10 2014 14:39 utc | 128

just a general observation about german media (again). skimming the “big” newspapers, it’s such a huge discrepancy between what the articles say and what readers think… e.g. the latest article in FAZ (which is germany’s biggest and most reputated, firmly conservative (meanwhile, that’s actually a good thing to say about them) print-newspaper is full of blame for putin and so on, more or less “the usual”, whereas 9 out of 10 reader comments are of a different opinion. And it’s the same almost everywhere. Why I rant about it here is, I can’t see this kind of schizophrenic attitude going on for much longer. The more this goes on, the more “average dumb john does” can’t help but noticing that the reality the media is constructing is very fragile. I expect major censorship and socketpuppetry measures to simulate a public opinion that’s in line with the news.

Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 10 2014 14:43 utc | 129

Posted by: Khalid | Mar 10, 2014 12:39:18 AM | 86
It’s OK. I wasn’t trying to intimidate you. I thought you might have an angle which the rest of us have overlooked. Don’t forget that Russia has had plenty of time to study US overthrow techniques and formulate strategies to overcome them. For example, not long after Pussy Riot made headlines, Russia evicted about a dozen US ‘NGOs’ on 24 hours notice and put the remaining ones on a short leash, and short notice, to be of exemplary behaviour – or else.
If it’s any comfort to you, I doubt that anyone except the Russians can predict what Russia will do next, but it usually turns out to be worth waiting for.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 10 2014 14:59 utc | 130

harrylaw
Thanks yeah I read stuff from Morrison before, hes good, check his homepage if you havent yet.
http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/‎

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 15:26 utc | 131

JSorrentine #89
No peddling here, sir: your POV is my POV. But I’m still frankly delighted anytime any American blogger gets even a bit of the big picture. And I thought there was some interesting stuff in it.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 10 2014 15:27 utc | 132

Huff Post
WASHINGTON — Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said Sunday that he believes Russia will ultimately control Crimea, the disputed peninsula in the Black Sea.
“I do not believe that Crimea will slip out of Russia’s hand,” said Gates in an appearance on “Fox News Sunday.” Host Chris Wallace asked Gates again: “You think Crimea’s gone?”
“I do,” said Gates.
Gates also said he expects Russian President Vladimir Putin to continue efforts to take control of the rest of Ukraine. “I don’t think he will stop in Ukraine until there is essentially a pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in Kiev,” said Gates.
Gates’ remarks came amid reports that Russia has been scaling up its military presence in the region. The question of whether Crimea should break away from Ukraine and join Russia will be decided in a referendum on March 16.
Gates also reiterated his previous remarks that his fellow Republicans should “tone down” their criticism of President Barack Obama over the Ukraine situation. Congressional Republicans have accused the president of being “naïve” regarding Russia’s actions and intentions in the region.
“Putin invaded Georgia when George W. Bush was president,” said Gates. “Nobody ever accused George W. Bush of being weak or unwilling to use military force.”

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 10 2014 15:28 utc | 133

Interesting point made by Prof. Marandi from the University of Tehran on how the EU and US anti-Iranian sanctions have severely damaged Europe’s position in its confrontation with Russia:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/10/354041/europe-stance-on-iran-hurting-europe/
“The Europeans and the Russians are now in major conflict. They could have had Iranian gas through gas pipelines, but they created a monopoly by placing an embargo on Iran and weakening their own positions. So, through confrontation with the Iranians, the Europeans have hurt themselves immensely economically and politically.”
The irony!

Posted by: Amar | Mar 10 2014 15:32 utc | 134

That is hilarious.
I wonder if Iran would be able to tell the EU to come and have their fill of cheap Iranian gas as payback for Putin screwing them over on their military defense equipment purchases.
And have the bonus of driving a wedge between the EU and the US which would of course go ballistic over even the idea of such a move by the EU.

Posted by: Kip | Mar 10 2014 15:39 utc | 135

All your neighbourhood needs to know about Ukraine?
A quick and clear guide
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/ukraine-the-sovereignty-argument-and-the-real-problem-of-fascism/

Posted by: bevin | Mar 10 2014 15:40 utc | 136

Russia in the western press is accused of taking over a base and have started shooting
Any truth of this? Any link to any other source than crappy msm?

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 16:13 utc | 137

Nevermind find it myself, not russians but MSM keep saying that..
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/shots-fired-in-air-in-crimea-naval-base-standoff-30079354.html

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 10 2014 16:17 utc | 138

… Putin would have neutralized the ‘Putin invades and captures Crimea’ narrative the US and US media is actively pushing. Crimea is now safer than it ever has been. It matters little to Putin if Crimea is actually part of Russia or not. It is already by the facts on the ground. Making it official gives Putin nothing but feed into the US’s narrative. – Ed Wood at 22.
Yes, mostly.., and it seemed to me (maybe I was over-interpreting along my own bias) that that is how Putin himself views the situation. In the interview where he was supposed to be ‘rambling and incoherent.’ (In fact he made a lot of sense but was disingenuous once or twice. Link for ref. below.) He left any armed response or take-over, open, naturally.
Besides the hysteria from the W media, what exactly would Putin gain by annexing Crimea (per its request, so to speak) ? In comparison with the status quo or something or other closely resembling it? I haven’t seen any worthwhile or convincing arguments at all.
Yet, it is certainly possible that the US-EU will squeeze him into a strong-arm stance. Because they want, by hook or by crook, to change the present landscape, anything for chaos, murder, civil strife or even war, in any direction actually.
I agree with Khalid at 62 in a way, see his qu. 3,: Putin is holding back, trying to give diplomacy (that is the unfolding of various forces on the stage) a chance, as any public negotiation(s) / reference to Intl. law / long UN discussions with many involved / common sense / etc. would be in his favor, or at least create a sort of stasis. Therefore, the other side is pushing event as rapidly as they can, bam, boom, etc., as they are aware of this.
Putin’s is in a weak-ish position, but that is the hand he was dealt through history. He has a pair of aces, not more (poker), but is smart.
interview Putin (Eng)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37889.htm

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 10 2014 16:26 utc | 139

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/lviv-ukraines-monument-to-ethnic-cleansing/
Patrick Cockburn on Lviv/Lvov/Lemburg

Posted by: bevin | Mar 10 2014 16:55 utc | 140