Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 08, 2014

Ukraine, March 8

Nothing new by me but a pointer to a somewhat decent (wrong conclusion at the end) piece by the Globe & Mail's Mark Mackinnon: How the West lost Putin: it didn’t have to be this way:

In Ukraine, it’s Mr. Putin who is bending the rules and distorting the facts in the same way he has accused the West of doing elsewhere. But the battle for Ukraine is existential for him. Ukraine is central to Russian history and culture, and crucial to Mr. Putin’s ambition of restoring a sphere of influence over Moscow’s post-Soviet neighbours. He’s almost certainly not going to back down, whatever the cost. There “will be mutual damage,” Mr. Putin said when asked about the possibility of Western sanctions over Crimea.

A sane "western" policy would try to keep the damage as small as possible. The chance for such a policy is currently low.

Posted by b on March 8, 2014 at 17:08 UTC | Permalink

next page »

following on from the previous thread.

But then, there's no "Ukrainian people" in the first place. There are diverse groups.

- Mr. Pragma, xx in the previous thread.

Against the grain, for background, though it is of course impossible to attribute a ‘national unity score’ to x country, or to use such as a basis for the prediction of future events. Maybe wasting space or being OT ..


The two main langs, there are many other local ones, plus German, English etc. are pretty much mixed up throughout the land, though there are more R speakers (a third about overall) in the East, or rather in certain Oblasts, + Crimea:

This kind of categorization is of course misleading, as a good chunk (a third, half?) of Urk. citizens are bi-lingual, tri-lingual and there are all those who ‘can manage’..

‘Russian speakers’ in a census like the above means ppl who chose Russian - in a census or study - as their ‘native’ / ‘mother tongue’ / language spoken at home. This last, and odd category, shows that Ukrainians themselves accord importance to this classification.

So, some are lodged as R speakers and % vary wildly depending on sources ...while, e.g. they speak Ukrainian at work and at their sports club.

Ukranians often communicate in the two languages in one conversation without knowing they are doing it. The lexicon (in studies that may be shoddy) is shared for 60% or more.. Ukr. is closest to Bielorussian, which two langs. are mutually comprehensible..

This language categ. is more salient in Ukr. than say in the US, which favors nutty ‘ethnic’ boxes.

One wouldn’t assume that Spanish speakers in the US don’t speak English and are fans of say Chavez or Castro (not) or Christina Kirchner or King Juan Carlos. :)

The trend on the ground since 1991 has been towards increased Russification, which may make purist, nationalist, Ukr. speakers upset. (As we have seen, beyond pol. manipulation.)

This is a natural phenomenon not an outcome of Russky propaganda (I mean since 1991, previous very strong persecution / repression does play a great role I’m sure, and since 1991 the very confused State lang. policies, school policies, have favored Ukr., as is usual in such new nation situations or split off efforts, see Basque, Catalan, for ex.), but of economic ties with Russia, as well as the fact that Russian is a major, international, language while Ukr. a local one.

According to one wiki link (? indicative only) over 60% of print media (87% for books!) in the Ukr. are in Russian. Only 4% of songs on radio are in Ukr. with 60% in Russian, the rest, foreign.

The present top 40 in Ukr. I just checked shows Eminem at no 6. I promise you, you don’t want to hear about no.1.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 8 2014 17:31 utc | 1

From b's link:

"The immediate triggers for Mr. Putin’s fury are now plain. The Kremlin feels (and has evidence) that the West put its shoulder behind the Ukrainian opposition that toppled the government of Viktor Yanukovych last month following a deadly week of street battles between protesters and police."

This SHOULD be the news quote for anyone discussing the Ukraine situation. Simple, to the point, and true. Maybe even, the American sheeple could understand it.

Posted by: ben | Mar 8 2014 17:32 utc | 2

bill Blum has a new anti-empire report, largely about Ukraine out:

Posted by: bevin | Mar 8 2014 17:41 utc | 3

# 3 Wow. Blum's postscript:

"Ukraine’s interim prime minister announced March 7 that he has invited the NATO Council to hold a meeting in Kiev over the recent developments in the country. “I invited the North Atlantic Council to visit Kiev and hold a meeting there,” Arseny Yatsenyuk said during a visit to Brussels, where he met with NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen and EU officials. “We believe that it will strengthen our cooperation.”

Uh, what could possibly go wrong? Looks like they want it to.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 17:58 utc | 4

Nicholas J.S. Davies lists 35 Countries where we've supported fascists, drug lords and terrorists. Please don't laugh, this is an honest question: outside of both World Wars, have we ever supported anyone decent?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 18:20 utc | 5

thanks b - i haven't read the g&m today yet.. i tend to get annoyed with Mark Mackinnon's comments on this topic and find them very one sided..he has been doing articles in the g&m on an ongoing basis.

it is nice he points out how putin is being painted as the new 'hitler'.. how often do we have to see this story re-created to not acknowledge those who make it are full of shite? short term memory - osama morphed into hitler, but then he morped into saddam who quickly morphed into hitler.. assad - morphed into hitler.. now it is putin who morphs into hitler.. the story line gets so frigging tiring!! anyone with 1/2 a brain can see how empty this is and what the real intent is behind it..

unfortunately our stooge in power harper is nothing more then a boot licker and rubber stamp guy for anything that comes out of washington that is interested in murder and mayhem. i guess i should expect this from someone who claims to go to church on sundays, but i tell you - it gives a very bad rap for these same folks who go to church on sundays.. don't they ever think about all the murder and mayhem they are supporting? tell me they are not that stupid!

someone send harper a video link to those guys with the yellow arm bands and tell him and his dumb foreign affairs minister john baird to wake up.. bairds e mails is - - i will send it to him..

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2014 18:26 utc | 6

#6 Harper knows full well what murder and mayhem hes doing. Hes probably still pretty stupid though, but not so much that he doesnt know what hes creating or what interests he is serving. He just doesnt give two shits.

Most pols are like that. You think Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and whatever other western politicians usually arnt stupid: They just have no goddamn moral compass. They just dont care about anyone. They know what theyre doing full well.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 8 2014 18:34 utc | 7

One of the best sources of coverage of the Ukraine crisis is the World Socialist Web Site.

james, the long history of links between Harper's murky political predecessors (SoCred in Alberta; fascist emigre groups in all the major cities and the right of the old Tory party) is one that non-Canadians are unfamiliar with. The tendency is to regard him as just another Conservative and his party as the Diefenbaker/ Clark/Mulroney party. This gives it a legitimacy that it has no right to. It is time that someone wrote a book on Harper and the political antecedents of scoundrels such as Baird and Kenney. Put me down for two copies.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 8 2014 18:37 utc | 8

If history could teach us something, e.g. about the role of OSCE in conflicts:
'The Special Relationship' - NATO Backed Islamic Terrorism In The Balkans

"Macedonia, with its large Albanian minority, was the KLA's next target. In February 2001], its forces moved against this small and newly independent democracy..... [In May 2001 Bush Administration] U.S. diplomat Robert Fenwick, ostensibly the head of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, in Macedonia, met secretly in Prizren, Kosovo, with the leaders of the Albanian political parties and KLA representatives. Macedonian officials were not invited. It was clear the United States was backing the Albanian terrorist cause. This was confirmed a month later, when a force of 400 KLA fighters was surrounded in the town of Aracinovo near the capital, Skopje. As Macedonian security forces moved in, they were halted on NATO orders. U.S. army buses from Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo arrived to remove all the heavily armed terrorists to a safer area of Macedonia. German reporters later revealed that 17 U.S. military advisors were accompanying the KLA terrorists in Aracinovo. In August, fearing the Macedonian forces might be able to defeat the KLA, U.S. Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice flew to Kiev and ordered the Ukrainian government to stop sending further military equipment to Macedonia. Since Ukraine was the only country supplying Macedonia with military assistance, the Macedonians realized continued resistance against the KLA terrorists, the EU and NATO was futile. Macedonia was forced to concede defeat and obliged to accept all the terrorist demands.”

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 18:43 utc | 9

It is very difficult to get a clear idea how the strongly the pro-Russian half of the Ukraine consider themselves as Ukrainian. It seems clear that there was not a secession desire on their part even a few months back. However, now that the ultra Ukrainian nationalist that control the Kiev government are moving to suppress the Russian language that could change very quickly. It is difficult to predict what is going to happen.

I watched the breakup of Yugoslavia. There were two Yugoslav colleagues of mine here in the States who discussed this issue with me. Both identified themselves very clearly as Yugoslavian. In about a 6 month period that changed -- one became a Croatian and the other a Serbian. They both agreed that when they lived in Yugoslavia those ethnic identifications were not important. Once violence and the civil war broke out that changed.

My point is that polling data from a year ago is not a reliable indicator for what might happen in the eastern and southern regions of the Ukraine. Support for a secession movement in the eastern half will grow with each new insult against the Russian speakers. The arrest of the popular leader of the pro-Russian movement in Donetsk and his transfer to Kiev in the last two days is another little insult that will add to the passions.

Right now the politics will be carried out on the streets in the form of mass protests. Anyone who thinks that free elections can work in this environment is deluding themselves. I understand that an arrest warrant has been issued by Kiev for the first Russian who has announced his candidacy for the coming presidential elections. Imagine a Russian candidate that tried to campaign in Western Ukraine in an effort to attract the 20% of the voters there who support the proRussian position in that region. Right Sector assassins would surely make that impossible.

I have doubted for some time that Putin wants to see a secession movement in the Ukraine. However, what he wants and what happens are two different things. Putin will come around when forced by events as he has shown in Crimea.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 8 2014 18:44 utc | 10

@8 Very hard to figure somebody like Harper. There has been a religious revival in Russia. Church goers there are very conservative. But Harper obviously prefers so called punks dancing in cathedrals and topless demonstrations. Very strange.

Posted by: dh | Mar 8 2014 18:44 utc | 11

Nora 5 "outside of both World Wars, have we ever supported anyone decent?" Who's "we"?

excerpts from the book Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony C. Sutton

[The] build-up for European war [WWII] both before and after 1933 was in great part due to Wall Street financial assistance in the 1920s to create the German cartel system, and to technical assistance from well-known American firms ... to build the German Wehrmach.
... The contribution made by American capitalism to German war preparations before 1940 can only be described as phenomenal.
[The] interplay of ideas and cooperation between Hjalmar Schacht [Hitler's financial advisor] in Germany and, through Owen Young, the J. P. Morgan interests in New York, was only one facet of a vast and ambitious system of cooperation and international alliance for world control. As described by Carroll Quigley, this system was "... nothing less than to create a world system of financial control, in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole."
This feudal system worked in the 1920s, as it works today, through the medium of the private central bankers in each country who control the national money supply of individual economies. In the 1920s and 1930s, the New York Federal Reserve System, the Bank of England, the Reichsbank in Germany, and the Banque de France also more or less influenced the political apparatus of their respective countries indirectly through control of the money supply and creation of the monetary environment. More direct influence was realized by supplying political funds to, or withdrawing support from, politicians and political parties in the United States, for example, President Herbert Hoover blamed his 1932 defeat on withdrawal of support by Wall Street and the switch of Wall Street finance and influence to Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Politicians amenable to the objectives of financial capitalism, and academics prolific with ideas for world control useful to the international bankers, are kept in line with a system of rewards and penalties. In the early 1930s the guiding vehicle for this international system of financial and political control, called by Quigley the "apex of the system," was the Bank for International Settlements [BIS] in Basle, Switzerland. The B.I.S. apex continued its work during World War II as the medium through which the bankers - who apparently were not at war with each other - continued a mutually beneficial exchange of ideas, information, and planning for the post-war world.
Two cartels, I. C. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke, produced 95 percent of German explosives in 1937-38 on the eve of World War II. This production was from capacity built by American loans and to some extent by American technology.
The I. G. Farben-Standard Oil cooperation for production of synthetic oil from coal gave the I. C. Farben cartel a monopoly of German gasoline production during World War II. Just under one half of German high octane gasoline in 1945 was produced directly by I. G. Farben and most of the balance by its affiliated companies.
... American assistance to Nazi war efforts extended into other areas. The two largest tank producers in Hitler's Germany were Opel, a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors (controlled by the J. P. Morgan firm), and the Ford A. G. subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company of Detroit. The Nazis granted tax-exempt status to Opel in 1936, to enable General Motors to expand its production facilities. General Motors obligingly reinvested the resulting profits into German industry. Henry Ford was decorated by the Nazis for his services to Naziism. Alcoa and Dow Chemical worked closely with Nazi industry with numerous transfers of their domestic U.S. technology. Bendix Aviation, in which the J. P. Morgan-controlled General Motors firm had a major stock interest, supplied Siemens & Halske A. G. in Germany with data on automatic pilots and aircraft instruments. As late as 1940, in the "unofficial war," Bendix Aviation supplied complete technical data to Robert Bosch for aircraft and diesel engine starters and received royalty payments in return.
In brief, American companies associated with the Morgan-Rockefeller international investment bankers - not, it should be noted, the vast bulk of independent American industrialists - were intimately related to the growth of Nazi industry... General Motors, Ford, General Electric, DuPont and the handful of U.S. companies intimately involved with the development of Nazi Germany were - except for the Ford Motor Company - controlled by the Wall Street elite - the J. P. Morgan firm, the Rockefeller Chase Bank and to a lesser extent the Warburg Manhattan bank.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 18:50 utc | 12

Check out the zoomed-in picture of British National security recommendations for crisis at Guardian

Posted by: ess emm | Mar 8 2014 18:55 utc | 13

NBC is presenting the opening ceremony of the Paralympics and censored Putin's opening of the games cutting to commercials. They didn't even show the Russian athletes entering (technical problems) and cut the ceremony short. Shame on the Zionist Lamestream U.S. media for resorting to such vindictiveness at these games!

Obama is sending fighter jets to Lithuania and fighter jets and troops to Poland. Disgusting escalation during the Paralympics!

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 8 2014 18:59 utc | 14


Since the early 1920s, numerous pamphlets and articles, even a few books, have sought to forge a link between "international bankers" and "Bolshevik revolutionaries." Rarely have these attempts been supported by hard evidence, and never have such attempts been argued within the framework of a scientific methodology. Indeed, some of the "evidence" used in these efforts has been fraudulent, some has been irrelevant, much cannot be checked. Examination of the topic by academic writers has been studiously avoided; probably because the hypothesis offends the neat dichotomy of capitalists versus Communists (and everyone knows, of course, that these are bitter enemies). Moreover, because a great deal that has been written borders on the absurd, a sound academic reputation could easily be wrecked on the shoals of ridicule. Reason enough to avoid the topic.

Fortunately, the State Department Decimal File, particularly the 861.00 section, contains extensive documentation on the hypothesized link. When the evidence in these official papers is merged with nonofficial evidence from biographies, personal papers, and conventional histories, a truly fascinating story emerges.

We find there was a link between some New York international bankers and many revolutionaries, including Bolsheviks. These banking gentlemen — who are here identified — had a financial stake in, and were rooting for, the success of the Bolshevik Revolution.

Who, why — and for how much — is the story in this book.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 19:01 utc | 15

10) As I understood it Ukraine is run by oligarchs who pay the politicians or go into politics themselves.
Donetsk/Kharkov oligarchs were coopted by the Kyiv government and have no interest to be taken over by Russia. It would not be a friendly takeover, Putin made that clear. Neither do they have an interest to be controlled by the EU, but that will not happen anyway.
The only political news of any significance in this situation would be people going on strike - they don't. I guess people know it is not their fight.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 8 2014 19:09 utc | 16

ProPeace Sloppy wording on my part bc yes, our oligarchs certainly made a bundle while supporting... whomever, starting with Lincoln, actually, and Roosevelt at the very least egged on Japan. But since 1945, has the US ever supported a truly democratic regime? Really, have we?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 19:21 utc | 17

Now two R-Senators have written to FIFA . Wonder whether they play the ACTUAL and REAL FOOOOOTBALL:
Two US senators have written to Fifa, the governing body of world football, to request that Russia be banned from the 2014 World Cup in Brazil and stripped of the right to host the 2018 tournament, over its invasion of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.

Yep the USofA did abide by the UN in 2003 :(

Posted by: Yul | Mar 8 2014 19:28 utc | 18

Russians are just waiting for current regime in Ukraine to implode
which shouldn't take too long at current rate
perhaps 6 weeks (they've already had 1 week)

Posted by: chris m | Mar 8 2014 19:44 utc | 19

bevin @8 - thank you.. i was aware of all that and the sad history of the old conservative party, only to be taken over by these stooges.. i am in my late 50's and have watched a lot of this in real time. also, i can't believe how ignorant most canucks are about stuff like this..

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2014 19:56 utc | 20

@17 Yul

FIFA cannot exercise a double standard when the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq on trumped up excuses and caused massive destruction to property and life there. Besides Russia hosted an excellent Olympics and is doing a great job with the Paralympics so there is no sporting justification for such action.

Issssssssrael, America's best buddy, on the other hand is in deep doo-doo and ISRAEL SHOULD BE BANNED FROM FIFA AND THE IOC for its repeated brutal attacks on Palestinian sports and culture. Check out their latest attack on soccer players:

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 8 2014 19:59 utc | 21

chris m

Not so fast 16 of march (referendum) is going to decide how the future will be for russia, ukraine, nato, west.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 8 2014 20:05 utc | 22

new threat by US according to RT: 'us closing door for dialogue if russian doesnt change its way in ukraine'.

wow obama is really f*cked in the head!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 8 2014 20:23 utc | 23

@ 22

They all seem to forget those 6 humans in the ISS if they close the door of dialogue. This seems very childish coming from inside the beltway.

Posted by: Yul | Mar 8 2014 20:29 utc | 24

@14, your boy Sutton liked to say(or it was said on his behalf) "persecuted but never prosecuted". That's strange because if you google his name and any of the bankers or industrialists he mentions you will get zero persecution and multiple breathless accounts proving Wall St paid for the rise of Communism. But even Sutton has to admit that the bankers and corporadoes longed to get their hands on Russian ore, water power, timber, grain etc. This was not lost on the Bolsheviks, who let them indulge in their fantasies.

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 8 2014 20:42 utc | 25

But even Sutton has to admit that the bankers and corporadoes longed to get their hands on Russian ore, water power, timber, grain etc. This was not lost on the Bolsheviks, who let them indulge in their fantasies.

Keeping as much as possible of it out of the International markets was just as good for the bankers and corporadoes - once the Bolsheviks set about destroying Russian society, intelligentsia etc that helped keep the country in enough turmoil to keep russian resources off the Market.

It was not until after the 2nd World War that the Russians really started to exploit their Oil resources for example, and this helped keep prices high for the Western Oil Barons until then.

The dirty little secret of Oil CO's is that they are much more interested in keeping prices high thus ensuring max profit from every drop of oil pumped out of the earth, than they are in keeping supply plentiful.

Russian Oil entering the market after WW2 caused a drop in World Oil prices, which p'd off the Oil Co's no end.

Posted by: brb | Mar 8 2014 20:52 utc | 26

India sides with Russia over Ukraine crisis:

Political representatives from India have weighed in on the crisis in Crimea, boldly taking the side of Russia, putting forward an even more explicit show of support than China offered earlier in the week.

National security adviser Shivshankar Menon said India wants the confrontation between the West and Moscow over Ukraine resolved peacefully. However, he added that they also hoped that the interests of Russia were taken into account.

“We hope that whatever internal issues there are within Ukraine are settled peacefully, and the broader issues of reconciling various interests involved, and there are legitimate Russian and other interests involved…. We hope those are discussed, negotiated and that there is a satisfactory resolution to them,” Menon said.

Menon’s reference to Russia’s “legitimate interests” provoked anger from interim representatives in Kiev.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 21:03 utc | 27

Nora 16 The US government has not. But some of the US citizens have...

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 21:07 utc | 28

blurb, what is your point other than to remind everyone that Communism "destroyed Russian society"? Oh, really? For being "destroyed" they sure came a long way.

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 8 2014 21:10 utc | 29

To kill and maim and cause mayhem, and then declare - in the most self-righteous of tones - that others are doing the same (when, really, they've done nothing similar) is, I suppose, the prerogative of the powerful.

But I cannot see that this can stand up to the scrutiny of world public opinion.

I think what we see in the US, the ridiculous media coverage which has become for all intents and purposes an anti-Putin campaign (you won't believe the latest "water cooler" talk) comes as a direct reaction to the praise Putin received for his handling of the Syria crisis. Even in the US Media, opinion even gave him the title of "world's most powerful person". He was seen, at that moment, as a brilliant statesman and a leader standing up for peace and against al Qaeda.

You might say that Putin, through his principled stance on Syria, masterfully took over the "war on terror" narrative created by the United States: he became its hero and the protagonist of the most moral aspects of it (standing up against terror and fanaticism) while avoiding all of the dirtiest aspects (oil, Israel, drones and torture).

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 8 2014 21:12 utc | 30


I hope this doesn't turn the thread, which is about the Ukraine, not Harper, but Harper is deeply engaged in the Zionist project, not so much because he believes in it (though he might), but because he is angling for Jewish money and Jewish votes in the next election, which will be next year. He is making a big push for what he regards as marginally possible like Ville-Montreal, where he ran an orthodox Jew (Saulie Zaidel) who has been charged with taking bribes (along with our last mayor, Mr. Appelbaum, who lasted about six months in the office). Harper is an opportunist and an ideologue. Very much like Sarkozy but personally not as corrupt. He is basically a Neocon and believes in the USian project.

Posted by: Knut | Mar 8 2014 21:20 utc | 31

brb 25 ruralito 24 The game of usury and global monopolies has been around for some time already:

Confessions of a Monopolist:

This is the story of something for nothing—of making the other fellow pay. This making the other fellow pay, of getting something for nothing, explains the lust for franchises, mining rights, tariff privileges, railway control, tax evasions. All these things mean monopoly, and all monopoly is bottomed on legislation.

And monopoly laws are born in corruption. The commercialism of the press, of education, even of sweet charity, is part of the price we pay for the special privileges created by law. The desire of something for nothing, of making the other fellow pay, of monopoly in some form or other, is the cause of corruption. Monopoly and corruption are cause and effect. Together, they work in Congress, in our Commonwealths, in our municipalities. It is always so. It always has been so. Privilege gives birth to corruption, just as the poisonous sewer breeds disease. Equal chance, a fair field and no favors, the “square deal,” are never corrupt. They do not appear in legislative halls nor in Council Chambers. For these things mean labor for labor, value for value, something for something. This is why the little business man, the retail and wholesale dealer, the jobber, and the manufacturer are not the business men whose business corrupts politics.

No law can create labor value. But laws can unjustly distribute labor value; they can create privilege, and privilege despoils labor of its product. Laws pass on to monopoly the pennies, dimes and dollars of labor.

But monopoly does not end here. Even the sacrifice of our political institutions, even the shifting of taxes to the defenseless many, even the control of all life and industry by privilege, do not measure the whole cost of monopoly. These are but the palpable losses, the openly manifest ones. Monopoly palsies industry, trade, life itself. It encloses the land and the nation’s resources. It limits opportunity to work. It erects its barriers about our resources; not to use them, but to exact a monopoly price from those who do. Monopoly denies to man opportunity. It fences in millions of acres of soil, of coal and iron mines, and of city lots. It closes the door to competition and to labor. This is why America is not only the richest, but in some respects the most poverty marked of nations. This is why enterprise is strangled, and labor walks the streets looking for a job.

Here is the confession of a monopolist. It is the story of no one monopolist, but of all monopolists. It shows the rules of the game. The portrait presented is not the portrait of any one monopolist Senator; it is the composite of many, and the setting may be laid in any one of the Northern States. For the United States Senate is the refuge of monopoly. Its members no longer are representatives of the Commonwealths which name them, but of the big business interests whose directors, attorneys and agents they are.

And also Unequal Protection: Jefferson Versus the Corporate Aristocracy

The Three Threats. Thomas Jefferson’s vision of America was quite straightforward. In its simplest form, he saw a society where people were first and institutions were second. In his day Jefferson saw three agencies that were threats to humans’ natural rights: 1. Governments (particularly in the form of kingdoms and elite groups like the Federalists) 2. Organized religions* (he rewrote the New Testament to take out all the “miracles” so that in The Jefferson Bible—which is still in print—Jesus became a proponent of natural rights and peace) 3. Commercial monopolies and the “pseudo aristoi,” or pseudo aristocracy (in the form of extremely wealthy individuals and overly powerful corporations)

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 8 2014 21:26 utc | 32

Office of the Press Secretary
March 8, 2014

Readout of the President’s Calls with President Berzins of Latvia, Prime Minister Cameron of the United Kingdom, President Grybauskaite of Lithuania, President Hollande of France, President Ilves of Estonia, and Prime Minister Renzi of Italy

The President spoke separately with Prime Minister Cameron, President Hollande, and Prime Minister Renzi today about Ukraine. The President welcomed the strong, unified stance of the United States and the European Union regarding Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine, including in the conclusions of the March 6 European Council. The leaders reiterated their grave concern over Russia’s clear violation of international law and reaffirmed their support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The President also spoke with President Berzins, President Grybauskaite, and President Ilves on a conference call today. The President reaffirmed the United States’ unwavering commitment to our collective defense commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty and our enduring support for the security and democracy of our Baltic allies. The Baltic leaders welcomed the provision of additional support to NATO’s Baltic Air Policing mission, and the leaders agreed to continue coordinating their efforts closely.

All of the leaders agreed on the need for Russia to pull its military forces back to their bases, allow for the deployment of international observers and human rights monitors to the Crimean peninsula, and agree quickly on the formation of a contact group that could lead to direct dialogue between Ukraine and Russia to de-escalate the situation and restore Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The leaders rejected the proposed referendum in Crimea as a violation of Ukraine’s constitution and underscored that all decisions about the future of Ukraine must include the government in Kyiv. The leaders made clear that Russia’s continued violation of international law will isolate it from the international community. They also discussed the need for the international community to provide strong support to the government of Ukraine as it works to stabilize its economy and prepares for elections in May. They agreed to continue close coordination, including through appropriate international organizations.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 21:29 utc | 33


US, UK, France, Latvia, Lithuania, Italy, Estonia

God what a pathetic bunch of warmongering racists.

US could pull back its troops from their 600 bases around the world.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 8 2014 21:34 utc | 34

#31 -- Yup. Also, Merkel is rather conspicuous by her absence.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 21:51 utc | 35

Say it Obama, you little bitch, say it:

It's a Coalition of the Willing!! (snicker chortle guffaw etc etc)

Or is that shilling? wilting? swilling?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 8 2014 22:00 utc | 36

Italy? Does Italy have a government now?

Posted by: lysias | Mar 8 2014 22:12 utc | 37

US, EU, Nato could send whatever types of planes to europe, they really believe us to think they would start attacking Russia? They are so desperate now.
EU must be the most pathetic, its a lapdog to america!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 8 2014 22:20 utc | 38

I do wonder what Western Europeans think about this. Judging by comments to an FAZ story about the leaked conversation between the EU diplomats about the Ukrainian snipers shooting people on their own side, at least half of Western Europeans are not buying the US propaganda that their own media outlets are throwing at them.

It could be that with the US and EU governments supporting a fascist coup in the middle of Europe, the Empire has finally jumped the shark.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 8 2014 22:31 utc | 39


But then, there's no "Ukrainian people" in the first place. There are diverse groups.

- Mr. Pragma, xx in the previous thread.

Against the grain, for background, though it is of course impossible to attribute a ‘national unity score’ to x country, or to use such as a basis for the prediction of future events. Maybe wasting space or being OT ..

I'm afraid you got it - and are - wrong.

Ukraine was never a country - it was a patchwork construct created by wanton decisions and happenstances.

While language is not the only parameter, it is a very important one. Most importantly, however, ukraine, since it became a state, decidedly disadvantaged and often enough even terrorized the ethnic Russians. That's an important factor because it fractions national coherence and creates tensions.

The fact that the ethnically russian parts of ukraine basically earn the states income while being ransacked, doesn't help neither.

And that is still the very fucking reason why ukraine can't afford to let go the eastern and southern parts. Blunt as it might sound, without them the ukrainians will rapidly turn from "quite rotten insignificant periphery region" (both to east and wezt) to "completely broken trouble and rat infested shithole" status.

Quite obviously the ethnic Russian parts feel - rightfully - to deserve better than being the money earners who get terrorised by those who live off them.

Simply speaking ukraine was a lumped together troublebox with major infections since long. (In a perverse way) accordingly oligarchs from *all* sides (and, sure enough most of them with israeli passports) recognized ukraine as what it was, namely, a small scale version, albeit a more troublesome and explosive one, of what Russia was meant to be but gladly survived, a "serve yourself and take as much as you possibly can" station.

The core problem of ukraine was - and still is - that actually nobody wants to have it and consequently that nobody did or does what would be the fucking only way to help ukraine to become sth. like a remotely viable state: To pour in tens of billion and again tens of billions, basically risking a major bet the only result of which might be some of the plagues of ukraine coming back and going for the generous investors.

And then came zusa and its zeu minions and saw that ukraine might be a good place to blow up and hope that some of the poisonous dirt would hurt Russia. THAT's what happend, plain and simple.

And just btw. Putin was since long the only one to sometimes at least throw some crumbs to ukraine. That wasn't much but it was a lot for someone who had no obligation whatsoever toward ukraine - and it was *way more* than zusa or zeu ever did for ukraine.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 8 2014 22:37 utc | 40

a practicesd at fact bending western journalist has the gall to say president Putin is distortng the facts?

Posted by: brian | Mar 8 2014 22:39 utc | 41

This video offers significant evidence that the use of snipers on February 18, 2014, in Kiev was planned beforehand and it also shows how it was executed--by the leaders of the Maidan. Some snipers were acting from the hotel Ukraine, which was on that day seized by Maidan protesters. From the same hotel, a party of snipers fired into the back of a group of protesters who were ordered to move forward through the space covered by the camera:

Posted by: brian | Mar 8 2014 22:40 utc | 42

ProPeace. You have already been asked politely to refrain from posting lengthy excerpts

Posted by: DM | Mar 8 2014 22:42 utc | 43

Posted by: dh | Mar 8, 2014 1:44:46 PM | 11

hard to figure Harper out? not at all....hes a politician and most of this species are corrupt

Posted by: brian | Mar 8 2014 22:43 utc | 44

Poland evacuated Crimean consulate, must be expecting trouble, well they started it, Maidan...Polish shit stirrers..

Posted by: brian | Mar 8 2014 22:51 utc | 45

The Vineyard Of The Saker reports Thursday on a large lynching party that took place on Feb 20th. A convoy of 8 buses of Crimean Russian-speaking citizens was ambushed by neo-Fascists, who systematically "burned, murdered, tortured and humiliated" the riders, apparently filming some of the results [see transcript below].

This new information offers a unique opportunity for Pres. Obama and Sec. Kerry to save America from a terrible mistake, and move the situation in a new and positive direction. As this State letter illustrates, Pres. Obama and Sec. Kerry are obviously unaware that neo-Fascists are going out of their way to lynch Russian speakers--that at least one Church leader is a neo-Fascist advocating pogroms against "Negroes, Jews, and Russians"--or that incidents such as this synagogue firebombing have recently caused a Kiev Rabbi to advise Jews to flee Ukraine if possible. Given the light of these new facts, the Russian reaction seems measured and reasonable.

America should remember the hard lessons on relationships taught by R.A.Wilson's "Prometheus Rising", Gottman's "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work", and Harvard's "Getting To Yes". Everyone has their own reality tunnel. Most differences cannot be resolved, and you're not going to change your partner's mind, so co-existing in a small world means going along to get along. Contempt avalanches to conflict. Turn towards, and keep talking; never turn away. Work together to solve the problems that CAN be solved. Separate the personalities from the problems. Focus on interests, not Manichean positions. Insist on using objective criteria. Invent options for mutual gain.

In this case, both the interests of the US and of Russia are that Russian citizens in Crimea and Ukraine are safe from lynching attacks of neo-Fascists. Both want a stable Crimean region, and would prefer a stable Ukraine. Both want the gas flowing. Both want fairness, and the rule of law. And both want to avoid unnecessary warfare, which is counterproductive and leads to instability of homeland economies already overspent and overextended.

When the State department reacts to this new information and acknowledges that Russian-speakers actually ARE getting lynched in the Ukraine, this will save face on all sides and allow a constructive reset. And when Russia can continue to have patience and explore the world-view of State with probing questions to establish mutual understanding, both sides can help the other side to save them from themselves. The goal is a stable world where the US and Russia continue to be partners, with mutual respect, as in December '13, so as to solve difficult world problems together.

Pres. Obama is a highly intelligent, decent man with many alternatives. I am sure he would not knowingly choose to fund neo-Fascists who treat human beings like baby seals, making them crawl on the ground and clubbing the life out of them for sport.

The key is in over-communication, meta-communication, and creativity. Whoever comes up with the best ideas, wins.

Direct link:
Saker's Page: Neo-Fascist Ukrainian insurgents attack a bus with Russian civilians near Cherkassy
Translation by V.o.t.Saker [comments by self]:

Reporter: On February the 20th, in the Cherkassy Oblast, a mob of armed insurgents stopped several buses with citizens from Simferopol. The passengers were beat up and dragged out of the bus. They were then piled up upon each other, they were forced to walk crouching on their heels, and forced to sing the Ukrainian anthem.
[video: about 30 prone (live?dead?) bodies on ground in large pile, hands are covering heads, surrounded by large crowd of insurgents with long clubs]

Interviewee: "They were hammering the buses and pouring petrol on them, on one of their checkpoints they were executing people with shotguns, the buses there were all burned, they were throwing buckets of petrol on our bus and setting fire to it. When people fled the bus there were killed with baseball bats. We could have resisted, of course, but they all had firearms which they were not hiding. They go around in the middle of the day with assault-rifles and shotguns taken from the Berkut, with hunting rifles and sawed-off shotguns."

Reporter: Some of the buses were simply burned down. In Simferopol the passengers came back as if they had just returned from the enemy's side of a warzone.
[video: Green Transportes Publicas de Andalucia busliner with rear windows completely beaten out, right front windshield smashed, covered with dirt or soot]

Interviewee: "They stopped the bus and they began shooting at them, they forced people out and then began shooting and pouring petrol. We were all beaten. They broke my arm and my collarbone with a rebar. I am only a citizen of Crimea. I am just from Crimea, do you understand, why do we need such a Ukraine? They think that they are above everybody else, for them we are nonhumans only because we speak Russian!"

[video: Busliner completely engulfed in flames at night]

Reporter: the Crimean authorities did inform Kiev of what happened. No reaction. The Revolution does not punish its heroes.

Posted by: Imagine | Mar 8 2014 22:52 utc | 46

Mr. Pragma,

The U.S. Ambassador to the USSR at the time of its breakup put it this way:

If I were Ukrainian I would echo the immortal words of the late Walt Kelly’s Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us.” The fact is, Ukraine is a state but not yet a nation. In the 22-plus years of its independence, it has not yet found a leader who can unite its citizens in a shared concept of Ukrainian identity. Yes, Russia has interfered, but it is not Russian interference that has created Ukrainian disunity but rather the haphazard way the country was assembled from parts that were not always mutually compatible. To the flaw at the inception of an independent Ukraine, one must add the baleful effects of the Soviet Communist heritage both Russia and Ukraine have inherited. [...]

The current territory of the Ukrainian state was assembled, not by Ukrainians themselves but by outsiders, and took its present form following the end of World War II. To think of it as a traditional or primordial whole is absurd. This applies a fortiori to the two most recent additions to Ukraine—that of some eastern portions of interwar Poland and Czechoslovakia, annexed by Stalin at the end of the war, and the largely Russian-speaking Crimea, which was transferred from the RSFSR well after the war, when Nikita Khrushchev controlled the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

It's funny how no one from the Western media has found it fit to interview Jack Matlock about the events in the Ukraine. The only way his voice gets heard is by him writing on a blog. The media silences even solid members of the establishment if they do not stick to the current official narrative.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 8 2014 22:55 utc | 47

Reading that WH press release doesn't instill much confidence that these nut cases will back off until some real damage is done

Posted by: DM | Mar 8 2014 23:00 utc | 48


my though exactly but the absence of germany does have some delicious ironies

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 8 2014 23:13 utc | 49 Aahhhh, the Saudis. I was wondering what they were up to.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 23:17 utc | 50

Merkel is currently in Dublin telling little Paddys how terrible the berlin wall was and how her belief in God helps her cope

No mention though of her actually being a member of the communist party, an information officer or somesuch.

As far as I know membership of the party was not compulsory. Also a belief in a "higher being" would certainly have been incompatible with her membership of the party

Posted by: tsk | Mar 8 2014 23:19 utc | 51

Aaand in other news, two passengers on that downed Malaysian plane apparently had stolen passports. I wonder if that really means anything.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 8 2014 23:39 utc | 52

knut @29 - harper has gone out of his way to embrace all things israel for some time. as the article that b mentions points out - canada has not shown any interest in visiting russia..however, harper was recently involved in a state visit to israel where he swore allegiance to all things israel.. he has been doing this for quite some time now.. he probably doesn't even know where russia is on the map, and clearly he has no interest either.. he is a huge embarrassment to us.

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2014 23:50 utc | 53

WARSAW: Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said on Saturday Poland had evacuated its consulate in Ukraine's Crimea due to disturbances by Russian forces.

Sikorski said on Twitter: "Because of continuing disturbances by Russian forces there, we have reluctantly evacuated our consulate in Crimea, Ukraine."

The consulate is in Sevastopol, the home of both Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the Ukrainian navy, where Russian troops drove a truck into a missile defence post and took control of it overnight.

The Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs added that the consulate in Ukrainian city of Odessa would take over the duties of the Sevastopol unit.

The ministry called on Polish citizens to leave the Crimean peninsula and avoid travelling to eastern areas of Ukraine.

......while west ukraine and kiev are safe? revealing

Posted by: brian | Mar 8 2014 23:53 utc | 54

@51: Sikorski happens to be the husband of Washington Post op ed columnist Anne Applebaum. I strongly suspect he was involved in the Polish government's decision to house a CIA torture prison at the former Soviet air base at Szymany. He was certainly in the Polish government at the time.

Posted by: lysias | Mar 8 2014 23:58 utc | 55

I've been looking through the German press. Pretty much the same thing is going on there as in the anglophone press: the "news" articles and commentary take the current line of the empire, whereas around three quarters of readers' comments sound like what one reads here.

What is most disappointing is Süddeutsche Zeitung, which is considered to be Germany's "left" newspaper, analogous to the Guardian in England. It too is taking a strictly anti-Russian line. In a way, that's more disturbing than when the NY Times or Wash Post do it, since die Süddeutsche Zeitung is in Munich, where the Nazis created their power base. And yet, the editors of that paper have no problems with neo-Nazis taking down a government (even Hitler came to power legitimately!); instead, the paper goes on about "Russian aggression".

Posted by: Demian | Mar 9 2014 0:19 utc | 56

@52 What more evidence does one need that the world is run, more or less, by a clique.

And it is this group - centered around the neocons - which are in command of the US and most of the NATO governments, and aim to dominate the world. C. Wright Mills The Power Elite should be essential reading.

There are only a few centers of power that are not close to this clique. And their goal is to replace them with people who are. Even if that includes riding into power on the back of outright fascists. It will be interesting to see how this new model works in the Ukraine. Of course the US has had many, many, many dalliances with fascists - but this is the first time that I know of (please correct me if I am wrong) that they have tied to join not with a military clique or members of a native, wealthy elite, but with a non-class based ultra-nationalist movement (though al Qaeda is pretty close).

Wether they truly think they can control such fanatics, I have no idea. I only wonder why the Right Sektor supports an IMF drone like "Yats". Is it the guarantees he brings of Western support and cash? Do they know that he intends to put the county's economy in the neoliberal electric chair?

Noirette, thanks for your earlier post. I am curious: what's the number one song in Ukraine?

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 9 2014 0:23 utc | 57

EDIT: "What more evidence does one need that the 'western' world is run, more or less, by a clique."

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 9 2014 0:24 utc | 58

I've made this point in another thread, but I'll repeat it. The US's foreign policy is beginning to mirror their financial sector's, where larger and larger gambles were taken in order to reap larger and larger gains. We all know the catastrophic consequences - for the whole world - of that peculiar mix of gambling, greed and hubris.

They are behaving likewise in their foreign policy initiatives and, chance being chance, are likely to miscalculate badly sooner or later. Were the cost of that miscalculation to be born by them alone, one would let them get on with it. But it wont, they are going to drag the whole blinking world down with them. Time to put a stop to this irresponsible phase they're going through.

Posted by: Cynthia | Mar 9 2014 0:29 utc | 59

Cynthia @56: very interesting.

This is in part connected with the fascist death wish. And something to do with the sense of invulnerability that impunity gives them.
Those responsible for the current Depression, probably fearing punishment, loss or public contempt, in practice found themselves rewarded, their bad investments being bought up by Central Banks and the taxpayer. Their victims being punished while they grew richer and more powerful.

Those responsible for torture, kidnapping and a thousand violations of constitutional and common law, international treaties and moral consensus, were promoted, protected and rewarded whereas those who attempted to enforce the law were prosecuted, jailed and otherwise persecuted.

It is unsurprising that this tends to reinforce the adventurous and the rash among the ruling class. And it is inevitable that such behaviour will, sooner rather than later, lead to disasters.

I'm sure that the Chinese have a proverb to the same effect as our English: "Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves."

As you suggest, the trick is to ensure that, when they hang themselves-or blow the place up- the common people, not to mention our dogs, the birds in our gardens and the fish in the seas don't get caught up in their fate.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 9 2014 0:53 utc | 60

bevin @ 57

It used to be sort of axiomatic in the juvenile "justice" system that it took about six crimes before a person got caught (even if for something they actually didn't do). But each time they'd get away with something, they get more self-assured, and more careless.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 9 2014 1:01 utc | 61

I am highly highly skeptical of Max Keiser's "what we need is real capitalism" thesis because I am quite sure that this collection of crony restricted markets and high barriers to entry we have IS real capitalism - but he did have Dimitri Orlov on, and he is always worth a listen. With a focus on the Ukraine.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 9 2014 2:09 utc | 62

About 10 people with guns and bats attacked activists returning from a rally against the government in Kiev. Presumably, the activists of the "right sector" started fire in the center of Kharkov and attacked citizens returning after a rally in support of the referendum and join Russia. Among the protesters were members of the so-called "Left sector" Three of them were going by car from the city center and stopped at Prospect Pravdi to congratulate women on March 8.
- At that moment, a minibus "Volkswagen" came, from which jumped out and ran 7-8 people with bats and firearms. They opened fire and wounded back of my friend! - Says one of the injured Sergei Korneev.
According to an activist of "Left sector”, the attackers hid faces behind masks, acted very quickly and did not bother that women were there.
- They threatened to kill us, beat us with pipes and bats! I closed my head with my hands, so got injured on the hand. We even did not have time to understand anything, - says Sergey - Girls were standing next to us, and besides - downtown - anyone could be hurt. My friend was wounded in the back; he is in a hospital now.
Gunmen left as quickly as attacked. Someone ordered them and the young people immediately ran back to the van. The victim is sure - they were beaten by activists of "right sector." - It was the "right sectors" from Dnepropetrovsk - the first letter of vehicle number plate corresponded to the region. In addition, we have information that a group of gunmen arrived to Kharkiv is from Dnepropetrovsk, these are so-called "titushki " - said Sergey .
In Kharkov about 15 thousand citizens took part in rally against Maidan usurping and Crimea support.

Posted by: brian | Mar 9 2014 2:24 utc | 63

If you're wondering why US helping overthrow this govt, spurring this international crisis and working so hard to portay Putin as the new Hitler, at least one reason is right here:

I've been waiting for something like: 'we have to change our laws and policies to allow export of our natural gas for our friends in Europe because they're helpless against big bad Russia'

There is huge resistance to natural gas export because it will cause a rise in prices for energy and food in the US and because the whole fracking boom and environmental damage was sold to the country as "energy independence" and "reducing dependence on foreign oil". Exporting the gas will of course bring a higher price.

Here is Speaker Boehner:
"I hope President (Barack) Obama will heed this call from our allies to use his 'pen and phone' to direct the Secretary of Energy to immediately approve pending natural gas export requests and do everything possible to use American energy to reduce the dependency on Russia for our friends in Europe and around the globe".

Pretending that US intelligence didn't think Putin would respond to the threat on Crimea is just bullshit. Of course they knew they'd be provoking this very reaction.

Posted by: gemini333 | Mar 9 2014 2:32 utc | 64

Pretending that US intelligence didn't think Putin would respond to the threat on Crimea is just bullshit. Of course they knew they'd be provoking this very reaction.

indeed - so it seems very unlikely that all out war is their aim.

So presumably they have something else in mind -

Posted by: brb | Mar 9 2014 2:49 utc | 65

Nora: re yours @5.
The list in question is very much a brief summary. I didn't see South Africa or Somalia, for example. And what about Angola and Mozambique? Then there are Thailand and Malaya.
And many more. I was glad to see France included but why not Italy where, notoriously, the 1948 Elections were fixed to keep the Communists and the left Socialists from power? And where the old fascist politicians melded with the mafias were fixed in power for decades. Then there is the UK in which the US Embassy wielded an enormous influence: the defeat of Labour in 1983, generally attributed to Thatcher's jingo campaign, was actually the result of the split in Labour and the formation of the Social Democrats. I have no doubt at all that the US was ear deep in financing and helping organise that.

And Spain? Franco's ability to retain power from 1945, when he should have been put down, well into the '70s (his successors are still in power) was entirely due to US support which included building military bases there. Portugal takes us back to Angola and Mozambique, where Salazar's fascist regime was shored up by the US and its ally South Africa.
We're still only scratching the surface: where is Vietnam? Where the corrupt and, in terms of the Geneva Agreements, illegal Diem regime, and its successors-all authoritarians, all puppets- was put in power by the US.
As was Synghman Rhee in South Korea and the long line of his successors-all chosen from the narrow class of collaborators which served Japanese fascism until the end of the war in 1945.
And what about Australia? There are many around here who can refresh our memories of some critical interventions in Canberra.
And Mexico? Where the left has been counted out of at least two Presidential elections in the past few decades. Or Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador? Jamaica anyone, or the Dominican Republic?
And what about Japan? Georgia? Azerbaijan? Ethiopia. And Sudan, for Christ's sake, split to US specifications last year.

Not to mention Guyana where Chedi Jagan's election victories were twice nullified at US insistence. It was the US, acting in part through the AFL/CIO (the original NGO front for the State Dept, which organised and financed the strike which brought Forbes Burnham, formerly Jagan's comrade, to power and gave rise to decades of violence, repression and corruption. It is too bad that Walter Rodney is no longer around to explain the US role.

It was a fine article and thanks for the link but it just begins to elucidate the problem.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 9 2014 2:49 utc | 66

gemini 333
Fracking is also, I believe, a big potential money maker (and aquifer poisoner) in Poland.
As to the US no doubt the Keystone pipeline will also be justified now on strategic terms: "our European allies desperately need bitumen from Alberta to spare them the fate of becoming Putin's clients etc etc."

Posted by: bevin | Mar 9 2014 2:56 utc | 67

bevin @63 Also forgot Venezuela, for gosh sakes. So the list now is:

Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Ethopia, France, Georgia, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Korea, Laos, Libya, Malaysia, Mexico, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Panama, Pakistan, Peru, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Thailand, Turkey, The Philippines, South Korea, Sudan, Syria, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Zaire

Any others?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 9 2014 3:22 utc | 68

gemini333 #61 Pretending that US intelligence didn't think Putin would respond to the threat on Crimea is just bullshit. Of course they knew they'd be provoking this very reaction.

It may be obvious today that Putin would react against this threat against Crimea but it was not a few weeks ago. One Mr P here at MoA, who seems to respected by many, vigorously criticized my suggestion that this would happen if it started to look like Ukraine would seek NATO membership.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 9 2014 3:42 utc | 69

The idea that the US can liquify enough natural gas and send it to Europe and actually make a difference is rather silly. If it were possible, they would have done it a long time ago. There is no way the US would have let Russia have all that business if it could grab it for itself.

Iran, OTOH, would have been a very good alternate source for Europe had it not been for sanctions...I love a good irony. I suspect now that, if they really intend to be confrontational with Russia, then the west will be much more willing to negotiate a square deal with Iran.

I hope Russia preempts this with their own offer. I wonder if a Caspian sea pipeline can be built and Iran's Nat Gas sent east to China via Russia's network? If so, the Russians should be sending somebody to Iran to work that out ASAP. The Russians would get a nice transport fee and a continued lock on the European market, Iran would get a huge economic boost and as well as a great sanctions bypass, and China would get a reliable energy source.

More importantly than all that, the resistance axis would gain strong ties and dependency on one another, making the empire's divide and conquer strategies much less effective. And it might persuade other countries that there is a real alternative to US/NATO hegemony.

Posted by: Lysander | Mar 9 2014 4:02 utc | 70

It may be obvious today that Putin would react against this threat against Crimea but it was not a few weeks ago.

(Well, it was to some of us, but anyway)

There was no immediate "threat" against Crimea a few weeks ago - Yankovitch was still holding the reins of power, and as long as he was still Prime Minister Crimea was fairly safe - The Russians only moved when Yankovitch legged it and the Nazis took power.

Posted by: brb | Mar 9 2014 4:40 utc | 71

Time to put a stop to this irresponsible phase they're going through.

How? No adults in their playground!

Posted by: DM | Mar 9 2014 5:01 utc | 72

@64 Poland always blindly follows the U.S. lead. The U.S. says jump and Poland always replies: how high? Poland was part of the "coalition of the willing" that followed blindly into Iraq on the pretext of non-existant WMDs.

I guess Poland isn't aware that multiple U.S. states have contaminated water supplies thanks to fracking.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 9 2014 5:19 utc | 73

Austrian ORF features OTPOR/CANVAS (in German) the professional revoluotionaries - paid by the USA.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 5:25 utc | 74

71) Conclusion of the Austrian documentary: The goal is a Middle Eastern Free Trade Zone, same as in Eastern Europe.

The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his "natural superiors," and has left no other bond between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous "cash payment." It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervor, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom--Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation


Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 5:56 utc | 75

*coalition of .....killing* ?

fukus culture = Bullets, bombs, breasts, bloodbaths., that says it all !

Posted by: denk | Mar 9 2014 6:03 utc | 76

Pretending that US intelligence didn't think Putin would respond to the threat on Crimea is just bullshit. Of course they knew they'd be provoking this very reaction.

It may be obvious today that Putin would react against this threat against Crimea but it was not a few weeks ago. One Mr P here at MoA, who seems to respected by many, vigorously criticized my suggestion that this would happen if it started to look like Ukraine would seek NATO membership.

And Mr. P still thinks you got it wrong.

Russia got into it, if one can even say that, when the ukrainian regime and their criminal terrorist helpers gave reason to assume that they would go fullscale against the until then relatively quiet ethnic Russian regions, in particular Crimea.

That whole thing (for Russia) is next to nothing to do with zato. One of the points ToivoS doesn't get is that there is zato anyway; if Russia took ukraine whole they'd have zato at their borders, if they didn't they may still get zato at their borders.

I heard that same bullshit some years ago. Then it was "Russia is afraid of zato getting into georgia, that's why they attacked". No, Russia did *not* attack, georgia attacked. Civilians. And Russia defended them. In fact they even left that war criminal and known lunatic sak-ass-willynilly in power. That's how much Russia respects other nations souvereignty.

This time it's the same stupid bullshit about ukraine. Again they make up bullshit stories about Russia neing oh, so aggressive and attacking ukraine.
No, Russia did *not* attack, they did not even defend "their" people (because that need didn't arise), they merely *prepared* to defend them.

The ones who attacked in both cases were zato friends and zato sponsored criminals.

And btw: Russia doesn't care batshit about zato. And why should they?
Why on earth should a *real* power be afraid of a bunch of losers? Whom should Russia fear? zuk, whose last heroic adventure was decades ago when they were victorious against an almost broken Argentina; a country that today is left with but a sorry rump of what was one a powerful military force, a country that is so deep down that they need to make any not insignificant mil. project with another more or less broken country (france), both of them so immensely powerful that they had to ask zusa because they were out of ammunition against a 3rd rate Libya that had been cooked for months before?
Or maybe Russia is supposed to be afraid of zusa, the country that spent sth. like half of a fucking trillion for their new superiority supremacy next generation high-tech jets ... and now quietly orders old F-18 because those dinosaurs at least actually fly?

Of course, Russia isn't liteheartedly start a war. After all Russia is a civilized nation with an intelligent leader who actually thinks and respects human life (sorry, I know that a very surprising and far off concept for zamericans).

But the mighty mighty (haha, just joking) zato certainly is not the reason for Russias desire to solve political problems diplomatically, peacfully and rationally.

How about risking a glance at reality from time to time? Maybe, just maybe there is a reason that zusa had made lots of noises and threatening blabla but hasn't moved so much as the mil. pendant to a small finger against any, say, at least 2nd rate (militarily) country? Maybe, just maybe it's because their generals tell them something like "Sir, we looked pretty lousy in Iraq and Afghanistan. We should certainly not provoke an actual military confrontation with China or Russia"?

But then, in zamerica centric "minds", no matter whether they are openly pro-zusa or just rotten and hardwired to believe in the ever more mystical power of zusa, every-fucking-thing on earth must be somehow centered around zusa; whatever whoever on earth does must be a reaction to something someone in wa$hington farted in his chair.

The reality is evident for everyone with eyes and some basic brain functionality. Russia did not, does not and will not allow ethnic Russians to be terrorized or Russias security played with. That happened in georgia - and Russia reacted swiftly and successfully; that is tried now in ukraine and Russia has responded with a clear "Njet" and a clear statement that atrocities against ethnic Russians will not be tolerated. The very fucking day ukraine - or whosoever - dares to attack ethnic Russians in ukraine, georgia will be repeated. Simple as that.

I don't mean to insult anyone but one can put it simple: zusa/zato is wanking on girls they can't get while Russia has the girls and the balls to do the real thing.

zato is done. Unless, of course, their opponent is even weaker than a broken Iraq with illoyal soldiers was. Because Iraq fucking obviously was too big a chunk for the mighty, mighty zato coalition of the willing (wankers).

Guys, if you want to understand what happens in this universe you might want to very seriously consider that the cosmos isn't turning around some office chair in the zusa senate, the pentagon or langley.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 9 2014 6:30 utc | 77

Oh, and as we just happen to chat, let me help out with some info that might help to explain the urge "democracy" for ukraine:

In the Dnieper-Donets basin there is one of Europes largest shale gas deposits.

I guess one might call zusas mission "democracy fracking".

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 9 2014 6:48 utc | 78

lysander #67. Good point. It did not make any sense when I first heard that the US could replace Russian natural gas with the fracking gas produced in the US. This would require shipping the gas to some US east coast port, liquifying it and then shipping it to some European port. Then transferring it to European gas lines. The infrastructure required for something like this would be huge and my intuition is that it would take years to build and cost many billions of dollars. I am not an expert this area but the talk that the US could replace Russian gas is absurd.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 9 2014 7:03 utc | 79

Arsenc and old Yats: setting Ukraine up for ruin (odd seeing Forbes break free of the media pack)
Ukraine’s interim prime minister, Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk, may prove to be arsenic to the beleaguered nation.

“Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said ‘we want Yats in there.’ They like him because he’s pro Western,” says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. “Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism,” Signorelli said. “He’s the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding,” he said.
“Yatsenyuk was saying that what the Greeks did to themselves we are going to do ourselves,” said Signorelli. “He wants to follow the Greek economic model. Who the hell wants to follow that?”
Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement “very unpopular measures” to stabilize the country’s finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

Posted by: brian | Mar 9 2014 8:12 utc | 80

ToivoS, that fracking gas fantasy, both of 'serious' people in EU and US, is a fantasy for exactly the reason you state. But it's worse than that, fracked gas wells have extremely fast decline in production. The first ones have now been shut-in - they're done. I saw a chart on oilprice a few weeks ago that showed precipitous decline in production after 10 months to 18 months, and unlike oil wells salt water injection won't help declining gas production.

This fracked gas fantasy to Europe is an extension of "US independence from ME dictators" meme which was used to sell sheeple on poisoning their water forever if only fracking were embraced. Ie, extension of propaganda meme.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 9 2014 8:16 utc | 81

Posted by: brian | Mar 8, 2014 5:40:46 PM | 39

I do keep an open mind about who ordered the snipers, you know. All we know is there were snipers and same snipers shot at both sides (and at random bystanders) to kill.

Meaning the intention was
a) to create a blood bath at the exact time Western diplomats were present to force Yanukovich from power
- making a compromise impossible
at the same time
b) delegitimizing the protest as violent
c) forcing the police off the streets (that is the part which creates huge problems for the EU now, but is fine for militia power)

At the exact time Russia had been putting pressure on - whom? - by saying their bailout was off whilst there was no security. What were the conditions of the Russian bailout?

Ukrainian oligarchs are neither pro-Russian nor pro-West, they are threatened by hostile takeover from both. So it is in their interest to

- make sure "the West" and Russia do not come to an agreement that could squeeze them, neither agreeing on EU conditions nor Russian conditions which would presumably center on the operation of the gas pipelines.

Depends now how much stupid people they can rally to fight.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 8:21 utc | 82


g: Iraq oil ministry reports crude production soaring to 2.8 million barrels per day the greatest increase in global oil production since BitCh-eney destroyed the $12 Iraqi oil.
No impact on US oil prices however, which means it's being sequestered, bicycled and held off the market as long as possible into the US driving season, to set the summer prices.
Then BitcHo-bama will sign the gas export and KXL pipeline deals to keep the prices high.
We are in an epoch of perpetual supply destruction, or tithe-taxation, it's the same.

But that's nothing compared to the US Biofuels Initiative Mandate, already destroying
880,000 square miles of pristine tropical forest and prairie every year --- the Biofuels
Mandate has a built-in doubler, scheduled to force Americas to burn TWO THIRDS of our
GMO food grains by 2018, after which it will double yet again. There is real terrorism.
There is murder. 10,000,000 3W children are already faced with biofuel-caused Famine.
That makes Ukraine-Crimea seem almost a carney side-show on the Silk Road to Persia.

On to Tehran! ZUSA commands you!! The Blood of Christ compels you!!!

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 9 2014 8:31 utc | 83

79) To clarify:

The sniper shots were done in a way to garantuee maximum media coverage.

This here is ABC coverage from Hotel Ukraine where all the media stayed and where snipers shot from windows. The snipers did not hide themselves, journalists reported at the time that there were shots from the hotel windows.

I think it is possible that the Ukrainian Right Wing have a plan of their own and that they infiltrated quite a few places - as in CIA asset biting back. It sure would be classical Neocon Al Queida style.

As this Video points out protesters must know who sent them into the media shooting range.

I think like in Syria, all Russia has to do is wait for European "security cooperation".

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 9:29 utc | 84

somebody 72 "The goal is a Middle Eastern Free Trade Zone"

Frank Lamb, one of the best experts on the ME matters, confirms: War by Another Name in Syria

Consequently, an 18 month old US-led Plan B has been dusted off by the Obama administration according to Washington Congressional and Beirut diplomatic sources. If successful, there is growing confidence among pro-Zionist neocons in Congress that while Syrian regime-change has failed for several reasons that thwarted the Gulf funded military campaign, Syria can still be brought to heel through an economic campaign dressed to look, well, down right “humanitarian.”
With respect to Syria, the “ equivalent of the Marshall Plan” currently being finalized is very different from what General George |C. Marshall explained to his Harvard University audience, 66 years ago this month, when he announced the post WW II initiative.

The already project Syria amounts to 19th century economic imperialism as a means to achieve control of Syria by hijacking its economy while shielding Israel from the rising tide of protests in this region, as armed groups across the spectrum are beginning to focus on directly confronting the Zionist theft and continuing occupation of Palestine.

Posted by: NoMoreWar | Mar 9 2014 9:39 utc | 85

I think like in Syria, all Russia has to do is wait for European "security cooperation"

There could be pictures, videos, signed confessions from snipers - what difference would that make?

These people don't give a shit about the snipers, or who says what about the snipers. That's history. They are busy making their new reality while you/we discuss the fucking snipers - endlessly

Russia has to do more that "just wait" - because it should be pretty obvious by now that Russia has nothing to lose - and everything to gain - by shutting down the government/gangsters in Kiev.

Posted by: DM | Mar 9 2014 10:07 utc | 86

It is very difficult to get a clear idea how the strongly the pro-Russian half of the Ukraine consider themselves as Ukrainian. Toivos at 10

In a recent survey (*before* Maidan), put a completely open-ended question, “What is your Homeland?” all over Ukraine (results divided into 5 regions: E, W, S, Center and Crimea) only 4 responses were obtained.


“Ukraine” 35 %

“Soviet Union” 10%

“Russia” 1%? (tiny)

“Own Oblast” (regional district): 55%


USSR was a popular response, and more pop. in the Center, South and East than in Crimea. Russia was a minority, negligible response all over.

As for the “Own Oblast” nobody except the Crimeans proffered it at over 3%.

For contrast: the West: “Ukraine” 92%, “Soviet Union”, 5%

The East: “Ukraine”, 68%, “Soviet Union” more than 20%


Another study (Dec. 2013) shows 35 % Crimeans endorse independence, 56% oppose any change.


As for general political orientation (2013) - pro EU vs. pro Russia (no other alternatives were on offer): 5 responses were possible, strong / weak preference for EU / Russia, and undecided.

We see that 50% Crimeans have a strong preference for Russia, with 16% or so having a weak preference for Russia, and 10+ undecided. (The remainder being pro-EU.)

At the opposite pole, the almost perfect contrast, West: 52% strong preference for EU, 17% weak preference EU, 22% undecided.

- The other regions fall in between and don’t really have a clear preference imho. The Center has 37% undecided, which is very large for such a survey, where ppl tend to ‘make choices’, specially when the question is ‘theoretical’.

In case of referendum, one might expect 80% of Crimeans to embrace Mother Russia.


Mr. Pragma, I wasn’t really trying to argue with you, as this post itself shows! - just exploring some other aspects. These identity questions are very complex, and who knows how to define a country?

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 9 2014 10:10 utc | 87

> guest77 at 54. ha ha, it is pretty awful.

Here is the song which I can’t translate:

Here is a bio of the singer, Tina Karol:

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 9 2014 10:19 utc | 88

Good article on Ukraine by the expert Cohen!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 9 2014 10:29 utc | 89

83) It could make people stop to rally around any flag for example, remember there are people needed to fight these conflicts (ok maybe not much longer with drone wars). People just won't go when they find out how they are fooled.

The analyzis of this guy here is probably true for all future conflicts that are planned:

His conclusion from his research on the issue was that the conflicts of the Cold War were "not fought to restrain communism", since the United States, through financing the Soviet Union "directly or indirectly armed both sides in at least Korea and Vietnam"; rather, these wars were organised in order "to generate multibillion-dollar armaments contracts"

They always work for both sides in a conflict, the goal is always "to generate multibillion-dollar contracts".

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 10:34 utc | 90

84) This is your statistics, Noirette

The conflict is completely artificial. It is a carneval of historical and modern flags.

People want a job and freedom to travel.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 11:28 utc | 91

84, Noirette, it is save to assume (as in 86 anonymous the Stephen Cohen article you link to, that people simply prefer to keep the economic relations they have - the ones with their bordering countries.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 9 2014 11:37 utc | 92

somebody at 88, 89, well for sure, I thought that was my point in a way.

See my previous posts, where I stressed the stereotyping of outside interpretations of ethnic / language / historical etc. divides in Ukr., saying outside observers make too much of it, probably for their own agendas, and would never have such a pov on their own country...

This is not an argument with two sides. It is a discussion to explore various aspects.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 9 2014 12:13 utc | 93

i'm stuck at home, apologies if i am over-posting, one can skip

This is all starting to look very gruesome.

Particularly alarming, imho, is the absolute nonsense about energy and the suggestions to render the EU / the Ukraine less dependent on gas from Russia, by, for ex. sending US gas to Europe (!!) or even more incredible, sending gas from the EU (which comes from Russia for a large part) in a “reverse” pipeline to the Ukraine. (!!!)

These suggestions are completely infeasible and will never happen. The only way anybody is going to be less dependent on Russian energy is by Putin closing the tap.

Now, we are all used to hype about energy, hydrogen!, bio-fuels will see us thru!, electric cars will take off! etc. etc. but this is normal hype, designed to put ppl to sleep, or, most often, propaganda for purely commercial reasons. But using similar kinds of fantasies in a situation where hyper sensitive international politics is in play shows a willing disconnect from reality, a sort of hysterical grandstanding. Cynthia (I think) mentioned the resemblance to the financial sector, where hubris and the willingness to simply create events out of thin air (or by using actions that seem immaterial in a way, take place in some kind of abstract sphere, no that many of the results aren’t concrete but they are distal and don’t impact the instigators) can find their way.

One might also mention the growing extravagance - la fuite en avant - of an Empire that is not exactly dying but has lost some of its sure-footedness and so becomes vulnerable to its extremist elements, clique, etc. (Which is in part what happened in the Ukraine itself btw though it is not an empire.)

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 9 2014 12:18 utc | 94

@66 ToivoS Even three weeks ago it was obvious, at least for our Pentagon and the many retired military brass in the US. It had to be obvious to Russian scholars and analysts at think tanks too -- the ones who get a chance to speak in the media (not many). It certainly was obvious to Steve Cohen, NYU professor, who has been on numerous cable news shows. And he is now saying this is the worst international crisis since the Cuban missile crisis. His voice of reason is severely in the minority among all the other interview guests, and as for the propagandist talking heads -- most of them seem to know very little about anything. They are there to look nice and read well and follow the instructions of the person talking into their ear. They are paid very high salaries and don't want to risk their jobs or risk getting blacklisted if they rock the boat. See Phil Donahue, MSNBC, pre-Iraq invasion.

This was posted on the blog of a retired US military intelligence officer on Feb 15:
"In a recent discussion with a retired four star admiral, I was taken somewhat aback by his assertive response to a query about the unfolding events in Ukraine. Asked about the issue of Russia's longterm leasing treaty with Ukraine for the naval base at Savastopol on the Black Sea, my friend noted that 'Anyone with serious military experience knows that, for the Russians, the Black Sea port issue is an absolute red line. No one in their right mind should be stirring up this issue, because it can be a war trigger.' I was not surprised to find out that for Russia, the existence of their key naval base on the Black Sea is of supreme importance. I was, however, taken by the intensity of my friend's alarm at the unfolding events in Ukraine. In hindsight, I am sure that he is correct."

And the 4-star admiral did not even get into the emotional attachment to Crimea or the issue of the Russian sentiments toward the prospect of having NATO on their border elsewhere in Ukraine, which only strengthens his argument. You cannot convince me that knowledgeable US military, retired military, intelligence, analysts did not know this. We have 17 intelligence agencies and countless Pentagon analysts. We have more intelligence reports than anyone can even read.

I believe that we are being lied to with the stories in the media about how US intelligence didn't predict that Putin would react strongly to the overthrow of the govt. in Ukraine and the attempt to take control of the govt. in Crimea. It's just not credible at all. It's more spin -- like the way certain factions in US intelligence cooked the intel before the Iraq invasion. After all, our govt can't very well tell the country that they helped overthrow the Ukranian govt. and helped plan a (failed) overthrow of the Crimean parliament knowing that it might provoke a war with Russia.

The vast majority of American people are fiercely against new wars, meddling in other's business with international conflicts right now. The entire country stood up and said "Hell NO" to bombing Syria. Many polls show this sentiment. Yes, I know that is not apparent, based on the way our government and elites behave. But it's true.

Posted by: gemini333 | Mar 9 2014 12:29 utc | 95

A professor in Moscow, Professor Aleksandr Buzgalin, claims that at least half the people in Ukraine don't want to join the EU. He doesn't offer concrete evidence. I don't know if any evidence exists. You'd think they'd conduct some polls in Ukraine over such a critical issue, or get a referendum ballot out there to their citizens, but it seems that nobody is even considering asking the Ukranian people what they want. An honest government would inform the Ukranian people about what the IMF "reforms" will mean, and ask them if they want to join the EU.

Anyway, this professor offers an interesting and informative point of view. He's being interviewed by TheRealNews, a small independent, internet only, left-leaning media organization in the Baltimore, Maryland. They tend to cut through the propaganda in the US. The interview, titled "A Struggle Amongst Oligarchs in Ukraine" has two parts. It's available on YouTube and also at their website

Part 1:
Part 2:

Posted by: gemini333 | Mar 9 2014 12:38 utc | 96

@64 bevin:

Not just Poland. Ukraine apparently has huge amounts of shale gas too.

"While Secretary Kerry may believe Russia is behaving in '19th-century fashion', the biggest threat to Moscow, in our view, may well be 21st-century shale technology," Bank of America Merrill Lynch said this week.

"With NATO military protection, European capital, and American technology, Ukraine could potentially become a competitive gas supplier to EU markets. After all, the pipeline infrastructure is already in place," the bank said.

[Emphasis added]

I've also read that the fracking efforts in Poland have not been going as well as expected, and environmental activists "have halted exploration plans in the Czech Republic".

Posted by: gemini333 | Mar 9 2014 12:54 utc | 97

gemini, I don't think that there can be much doubt that the Ukraine has been a series of provocations directed at Russia.
The only people who could possibly believe that it is surprising that Russia has reacted to these actions are the fools who still believe what the media tells them in the western countries. This is a prime example of the dangers of an education system that teaches people how to read and how to avoid thinking. It is specialisation of labour: "you work and we will form opinions for you."

But there has to be a limit to the ability of the ruling class to persuade people to commit suicide, and I think and hope that we are approaching it despite the fact that the carefully constructed alternative cultures, which go back to the earliest days of capitalism, the radical press, trade unions, cooperatives and workers education have all been-thanks in large part to social democracy- absorbed and turned by the capitalists, from organs of criticism into bulwarks of class dictatorship.

It is a noteworthy fact that public opinion, in political matters, is far more sophisticated and reasonable in countries where most are poor and uneducated than in those in which education is compulsory and a relatively huge percentage of the population have been to college and have the debt as well as the ability to swallow unlimited amounts of falsehoods and glaring improbabilities.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 9 2014 13:15 utc | 98

kalithea 70 "Poland" is a broad concept, Polish people are becoming farther apart from their government.

A Polish village says 'no' to fracking July 24, 2013

The people of Zurawlow once supported the proposal to drill in the "Grabowiec concession," a gas-rich region running beneath southeast Poland, in the hope that it would create much-needed jobs in the region. But that changed when two families' well water turned black after Chevron's seismic tests in 2010. People researched fracking online and found evidence that contradicted what they had been told.

"We were at a village meeting with the head of Chevron Poland. He told us the chemicals they will inject into the ground will be salt and lemon juice. That's when I realized they treated us like we were ignorant," says Wieslaw Gryn, whose 600-hectare (1,400-acre) farm is one of the most productive in Poland.

Occupy the Pipeline : Poland Farmers Stand Up Against Chevron to Fight Fracking June 9, 2013

Poland's government has been very fracking friendly to various gas companies, in an attempt to become "energy independent" from Russian imports. Hmm, sound familiar? There are plans to limit fracking protests to groups that are at least a year old, limiting the legal reach of groups in newly endangered areas.

Poland's fracking enterprises are troubled in that wells already fracked have not produced according to expectation of this being a particularly rich deposit area. The government is contemplating increased taxes on profits and the severity of regulation appears that it will be greater than expected. Several gas companies have already given up and left Poland, including ExxonMobil, Marathon and Talisman.

Gas corporations are not happy that Poland plans to have a state owned company involved in the gas drilling mix. How dare the country have anything to do with its own natural "resource."

Chevron files suit against Polish anti-shale gas protesters | Reuters Nov 8, 2013

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 9 2014 13:27 utc | 99

TheRealNews, a small independent, internet only, left-leaning media organization in the Baltimore, Maryland.

The Real News’ vs. The Real Truth"

In my criticism of the not-so-real ‘The Real News’ I emphasized the significance of the partisan corporate-foundation backing of news outlets- whether by those on the wrongly-named ‘Right’, or, completely-misguided ‘Left.’

I always ask my readers to ask and answer the following question: Why do corporate foundations such as Rockefeller-Ford-Soros-Carnegie-Packard … (you name it) dish out millions of dollars in funds to particular organizations (news or NGO)?

How could there be no string(s) and expectations (and influence) attached? How could the recipients ever go against the hands that feed them? Well, all these points and questions apply to ‘The Real News’ and its founder Paul Jay. Here is how:

In his threat and rant-filled e-mail Mr. Jay did not go as far as denying his mega-dollars funds coming from mega corporate foundations and mega corporate families and individuals. In fact, he openly admitted to a few (only a few; we are yet to be provided with others-the complete list)-[All Emphasis Mine]:

    “…we have received money from three corporate foundations.

    In 2005, we received $250,000 from the MacArthur Foundation.

    The same year we received $100,000 from Ford Foundation.

    The only other corporate foundation grant we received was $250,000 from the Knight Foundation in 2010 for improving our website…

    TRNN funding comes from two primary sources. About a third from small donors, and the balance from small family foundations or large donor individuals.”

Interestingly, nearly one million dollars of Mr. Jay’s ‘Real News’ funding comes from some of the same foundations we covered and talked about in our series last year. Now, Mr. Jay is careful not to mention the names of his ‘small family foundations’ or ‘large donors.’ You see, when we covered DC lapdog NGOs funding sugar-daddies (and Mommies) we talked about several Rockefeller and Rockefeller-like owned and operated ‘small-er family foundations’.

How many of such ‘small family’ foundations fund this ‘Real News’? … well, we don’t know.

How many of these very wealthy individual donors are active mega-corporate heads and or in charge of Democratic Party HQ operations? … hmmmm, we don’t know that either. In fact, here is a glaring fact:

If you visit ‘The Real News’ website, click their ‘About Us’ section, and then click the ‘Financial Information’ button, aha, then you see … NOTHING.

Comb their entire sanitized website and you won’t find a single piece of information on corporate foundation backers such as Ford, MacArthur or Knight.

You will find zilch on Mr. Jay’s tiny-meeny-miny-moe family foundations that may (highly possible) include Rockefeller, Carnegie, Soros or the like.

When you are clean, and when you are not hiding anything, you don’t ‘omit’ information like that.

Posted by: brb | Mar 9 2014 13:29 utc | 100

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