Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 18, 2014
Ukraine: Just Some News Items

The government of the Russian Federation continues to make fun about the sanctions the U.S. imposed because the people of the Crimea voted to reunite with Russia:

[Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry] Rogozin told journalists that the Russian government was not considering imposing sanctions against the U.S. and the European Union because it does not view the asset freezes and travel bans seriously.

Rogozin said the "search for accounts and property of people who cannot have them by definition is some angry joke," he said, referring to the ban on Russian state officials holding assets abroad, Interfax reported.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov is even impersonating Secretary of State Kerry:

"The sanctions introduced by the United States and the European Union are absolutely unacceptable and will not be left without consequences," the Russian foreign ministry said Lavrov told Kerry during a phone call on Tuesday evening.

"Absolutely unacceptable" and "consequences" are the typical words used by Obama, Kerry and other "western" leaders to push Russia around. Well, not this time.

President Putin's speech on the association of the Crimea into the Russian Federation was very well received in Russia. I recommend to read it.

I read some claims today that Crimea is poor and Russia will have to pay a lot to update its infrastructure. That would be expensive and a bad deal for Russia. That it would be expensive may well be right but there is a points the people who make such claims fail to understand. The Black Sea around the Crimea has plenty of hydrocarbons and the government of Crimea has seized the Ukrainian companies that are involved in bringing those hydrocarbons to the markets. These gas fields will now be part of the already huge Russian reserves.

There was a something like a sniper attack at a military base used by Ukrainian soldiers in Simferopol. One Ukrainian soldier was allegedly killed and one wounded. On the other side one member of the Crimean self defense forces was killed. Both sides claim not to have shot at each other. This may well have been a provocation by an unknown third forces which snipped at both sides of a potential conflict. From the BBC Live text (18:42):

An officer in the Ukrainian military describes the violence at the military base in Simferopol to Ukrainian television: "One observer was on a rooftop monitoring the situation; he sustained glancing wounds to the neck and shoulder. They say he is being operated on now. Our second observer was on the car park tower. He was shot dead. I personally did not see him. They say his body is still there. Representatives of the Russian Federation and of the Crimean self-defence state that they also have one fatality and one wounded. We did not return fire. We did not fire."

From Russia Today:

The Kryminform news agency, citing an unnamed local police source, reports shooting came from a house under construction opposite the center and targeted Crimean self-defense units as well the military center itself. “Earlier today self-defense units were informed that a group of armed men had been discovered in a partially inhabited building,” a source from the ministry said. “As they were taking measures to check, self-defense units came under fire. One man was killed, one wounded,” the source explained, adding that shooting came “in two directions from one spot”.

The Kryminform source claimed another man from the military center was wounded.

RT’s producer contacted staff inside the military center, who confirmed that the shooting did take place and came from a nearby house under construction. At the same time, the man had no information on the casualties.

Such provocations could start a serious incident. The Ukrainian and the Russian side should ask their soldiers to hold back form violence against each other. At the same time any sign of a third force must be followed up upon immediately and be hunted down.

The biggest and most difficult task now for the "western" foreign policy apprentices who sponsored the coup against the Ukrainian government is to get control over the fascist spirits that they called to help them with the coup. These spirits are likely to use extreme brutality against any perceived enemy. Should they make further trouble in southern or eastern Ukraine Russia will have to intervene against them.

Comments

Todd,
You are assuming that the West has a position of strength in the Ukraine, thus Russia would sell out Syria. Folks I listen to, such as Alexandr Dugin, feel that Russia is winning. He is well-known as someone Putin respects. Besides, the al-CIAduh army is just about wiped out. It’s pretty much all over except the shouting. In addition, any deal the West signs in the Ukraine could be broken, and it would ruin Russia’s reputation and position to let Syria down.
The putsch regime couldn’t get the military to follow them, and they are likely doomed. All Russia has to do is send in some non-lethal support and organizers and offer threats and rewards to incentivize the locals.

Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 19 2014 12:54 utc | 101

99) Simple, you don’t change borders like that in international law.
Assume eg, ethnicity xy lives on oil wells they do not want to share with the rest of their country inhabited by different ethnicities. So they declare independence and call for help from their ethnic brothers who emigrated and made it in the United States.
I agree, international law is pretty toothless however it does not allow for this scenario. Craig Murray is quoting Lavrov on Kosovo when Russia was on the side of international law.
When law is toothless people get their weapons out and fight for themselves. It is the road to all out war.
I am not working on the assumption that there are “good” or “bad” sides in a game of empire and monopoly.
I am also not working on the assumption that there is “us” and “them”

Posted by: somebody | Mar 19 2014 12:59 utc | 102

somebody @96

[…] What Putin is doing with Crimea is not international law. […]

Name the internationally recognised law and its relevant paragraph declaring that a country is not allowed to accept an independent new region into its territory after the population in said region has voted in no uncertain terms that it is their wish to join. Without such a reference your continued insistence that Russia’s actions were illegal should be considered NATO propaganda.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 19 2014 13:18 utc | 103

Nothing in the Khazak statement point in any way points to Putin/Russia in terms of “not international law”.
Nevertheless and no matter how justified one might consider that move it is a fact that Putin did step over a certain line when he didn’t limit himself to defending Crimeans or to even support their desire to break free from the illegal criminal kiev regime – but actually undertook a step to Russias advantage by taking (or accepting, call it as you please) territory into Russia.
Again, that may seem the right thing to do, it might look justifiable, Crimea might be considered Russian territory anyway (and correctly so) – but that doesn’t change the fact that it was ukraines territory and this fact has been signed – and later confirmed again – by Russia.
Well noted, a souvereign State Crimea might later have decided to join Russia (and such give up its statehood again). So my point is not that Crimea should or could not become part of Russia.
But the way it was done, incl. the timing can reasonably be perceived as at least doubtful and not fully legally correct. By accepting a regions newly gained (kind of statehood) on monday and incorporating that same territory on tuesday very strongly suggests that Russia and Crimea had that goal (bringing Crimea into Russia again) from early on and that Crimeas separation from ukraine was merely a necessary step but never really meant to be a lasting status per se.
Russia had to accept ca 35 years more pro forma and another 13 years de facto – and painful, no doubt – Crimea being taken away from Russia. I think it would have been a lot wiser to not hurry and such open a can of potential conflict and ugly accusations but to rather enjoy the – very major – progress of Crimea at least and anyway not anymore being part of ukraine and to slowly, well prepared, and later, say after a year or two, to finally reintegrate Crimea into Russia proper (where, no doubts, it belongs).

I do not discuss with fairleft, who has more than clearly shown his zionist affiliation and evil intentions, but as he happens to disturb again and again based on what doubtlessly is a malevolent “misunderstanding”, I will clear that issue.
Yes, most southern/eastern oblasts do *not* have a Russian majority, depending on how one counts, but that has *not* been my position anyway. What was my position is that those states have major parts of ethnic Russians. “Major” – not “majority”; the former meaning not insignificant and actually considerable portions, the latter meaning more than 50%. The term “major” is also justified by the language mainly spoken, which happens to be Russian, and by economic factors.
As Putins position certainly and doubtlessly was not to somehow “count favourably” in a way that makes as many regions as possible “Russian” by smart counting, but rather pragmatically to protect those regions with a major – as opposed to “small” or “neglegible” – portion of ethnic Russians, fairlefts relentlessly repeated non-point is moot anyway.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 13:19 utc | 104

99 / somebody
Again, WHAT international law is he breaking?
You keep saying over and over that Russia is breaing international law, so please tell us?

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2014 13:19 utc | 105

Sorry, “13 years” should, of course, be “23 years” up there in 103.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 13:22 utc | 106

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19, 2014 8:28:31 AM | 97
1. Russia should defend Russian speakers’ rights, but it should not defend them militarily.
Russia should defend human rights. Military is against human rights when the first right is the right to live.
2. It’s not imperialist if Russia uses economic weapons in order to defend Russian speakers’ language rights and the right to access to Russian-language media.
? I don’t think Russia is doing that. Russians use the economy to their advantage like everybody else.
3. The norms of international law are clear on the rights of minority language speakers, so it’s not unclear what Russia means when it says it will defend those rights for Russian speakers.
I don’t think there is any international law on languages. It would be very hard to define. Language has been used as a wedge issue in Eastern Europe since the times of the Austro-Hungarian empire. The American and US revolutions defined citizenship based on the territory of the place of birth.
Compare this truly revolutionary decision to the definition of nation by language or ethnic inheritance more than two centuries later. And no, the Soviet Union was not any better.
I think the preceding is all that Putin is saying. If you have a problem with either, I guess we’ll just have to disagree on that.
I think Putin is mainly interested in talking to his nationalist political base. He is alienating a lot of people he would need for his Eurasian Union to truly work.
Frankly, I wish there had been a Putin around when Latvia was denying Russian speakers’ language rights back in the 90s. That _doesn’t_ mean Russia should’ve reclaimed Latvia as part of its ’empire’, it just means it should’ve defended (probably through threatening and then carrying out economic sanctions) Russian speakers’ right to Russian media, an education in Russian-language schools for their Russian speaking kids, and similar. I wish Putin would do a little of that now, the Russian-language speakers in Latvia could use some help.
It is never a good idea to call for outside help, if you are living in Syria, in Libya, in Iraq, in ex-Yougoslavia or Latvia. You might get your country destroyed in the process.
Much better, and easier, to convince other Latvians that Russian is good for business.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 19 2014 13:24 utc | 107

@somebody
You have not answered a straight-forward request.
Name the internationally recognised law and its relevant paragraph

Posted by: DM | Mar 19 2014 13:29 utc | 108

Remember folks there are two ‘somebody’ on this blog, and one of them is a troll. Please ignore his nonsense – not too hard to spot.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 19 2014 13:35 utc | 109

journalists while making a reportage became witnesses as Right Sector captured two people. On the question “Who are they?”, Rright Sector answered: “Berkut helpers”. Captured were severely beaten and could barely react to what was happening.
Self-defense of Right Sector tried to intimidate journalists and stop filming. Deputy of Verkhovna Rada Olga Sikora tried to help but could not.
Reporters sent an official letter to the police trying to find out the names of those captured and sent an official request for clarification of this issue to the head of Maidan self-defense as well as to Interior Minister Avakov. Nobody ever answered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAQHRyt8iJU&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: brian | Mar 19 2014 13:51 utc | 110

Residents of Western Ukraine ask for political asylum in Russia
Governor of Tyumen Region Vladimir Yakushev received a letter after reading of which his hair stand on ends: “People come to us with guns and bury in the garbage.” People seek asylum. What they tell is hard to believe – it seems that the world is back to Nazi atrocities.
“….Our family is threatened constantly, after the raid of “Black Hundreds” we are forced to hide by friends avoiding death. We were twice robbed, beaten, under guns they “bought” our car, constant threats by telephone. They dont come at the day, they come at night and with guns. About such like us nobody writes in the news even after death as well as about buried in garbage.
Unconstitutional coup of fascist thugs led to the complete capture of power, government departments, law enforcement agencies and the complete loss of any control of them by the authority. Rovno entrepreneurs have to pay scot and lot to Alexander Muzychko ( Sashko Bilyi).
New powers who call themselves “elected by people” by hands of militants, people’s self-defense and Right Sector lynch of all Russian-speaking and dissidents. Looting going on. “Black Hundreds” collect data and make lists in order to begin their systematic harassment, destroying property, beating and humiliating those who do not support the fascist regime and do not proclaims Bandera slogans…”
At a meeting of the government of the Tyumen region was decided that the family from Rovno, who asked for political asylum in Tyumen, will be relocated under the program “Соотечественники/=Compatriots”.
http://el-murid.livejournal.com/1653705.html

Posted by: brian | Mar 19 2014 13:58 utc | 111

“ The KP” printed a letter from a reserve officer from Donetsk to the military analyst of “KP” Victor Barantsov
“At nights there arrests in Donetsk. What our law enforcers do – they come to civilian protesters and provoke them with words, shouting slogans, etc., while the provoked people answering, they secretly photograph them and 1-2 days later the person receives a paper from the the police department, allegedly for questioning as a witness, but once they get there, they become accused in incitement and participation in mass riots, swing on State Building and integrity of Ukraine ….
Now the new government brought about a battalion of tanks T-72 and I saw paratroopers on airborne combat vehicles, where they are deployed i do not know, I heard that they should be located along the border, but such a small force may only be used for the suppression of dissent in the area, otherwise they are just idiots …
Mass rallies held at the weekends – people work other days. Oligarchs support illegitimate power in Kiev. Expected the start of property redistribution between Taruta and Akhmetov – the second pinched so strongly the first that he ran abroad (there were rumors that he was in Poland – information has not been verified). We have nothing good.
Business freezing, services and trade too, except sells of medicine and products… Problems with products from Kyiv and Lviv – nobody wants to send to the east, they fear we would not pay them, here others are afraid that they will pay but goods would not be sent.
PS:
Some more, one of my friends called me, he was invited to join the Right Sector – 500 $ a month and additional money for each injured or killed – up to 1 thousand $, depending on the murdered rank – a simple citizen, activist, leader.. They press their invitations openly – they are not afraid of anybody…”
http://www.kp.ru/daily/26208/3093352/

Posted by: brian | Mar 19 2014 14:04 utc | 112

somebody at 106: There may not be international law on minority language rights, but there is EU and European human rights law to that effect. I think Putin is referring to that law and emerging international norms based on that law.
Speakers of Russian have tried to defend themselves rhetorically and have tried to persuade their fellow Latvians but have been unsuccessful. Anti-Russian feeling is still too strong, and too easy a vote getter, and during permanent hard times a great distracter from real problems. Russian language speakers face either destruction of the language within Latvia or enlisting the support of Russia. Actually, I think things are pretty hopeless now: the time when the help was needed was the ’90s.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 14:05 utc | 113

somebody @101

[…] I agree, international law is pretty toothless however it does not allow for this scenario. […]

That it does not explicitly allow for a specific scenario doesn’t imply it is prohibited, which is also the conclusion the ICJ came to in its verdict on the legalities of Kosovo’s independence.

[…] Craig Murray is quoting Lavrov on Kosovo when Russia was on the side of international law. […]

Craig Murray, and by quoting him you are totally missing the point. The statement of Lavrov he quotes is pertaining to a complete different scenario. Here his words:
Attempts to justify strikes as preventing humanitarian catastrophe were not recognized by international law, he said. – Lavrov pointed out that there is no legal basis for initiating a humanitarian crisis in order to stop one. Complete different circumstances than what has happened on the Crimea. Russia’s peaceful assistance to the regional government in Crimea was nothing of the sort NATO generals unleashed on the Serbian population.
The use of unilateral force would lead to a situation with devastating humanitarian consequences. – The use of unilateral force Lavrov spoke of did indeed have devastating humanitarian consequences, while the consequence of Russia’s unilateral actions in the Crimea did not.
No considerations of any kind could serve to justify aggression. – I for the life of me can’t see any aggressive moves by the Russians, on the contrary, all its actions were of a defensive nature as a consequence to an aggressive and murderous putsch in Kiev.
Violations of law could only be combated on the solid basis of the law. – Again, the principle Mr Lavrov states here has not been violated by Russia’s actions, unless of course you can produce an applicable legal document clearly prohibiting the steps Russia has taken in this crisis.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 19 2014 14:18 utc | 114

Letting us over-extend in Syria is actually smart, by selling out Assad we exhaust what capacity we have left to form any kind of barrier to Eurasia. Out of gas, out of energy and out of interest, Putin can rebuild the map, free from our interference.

Posted by: Todd Bennett | Mar 19 2014 14:22 utc | 115

Pragma at 103 now says:

Yes, most southern/eastern oblasts do *not* have a Russian majority, depending on how one counts, but that has *not* been my position anyway.

(Actually _no_ regions except the former region of Crimea have a Russian majority.) Actually, your position is seen in comment 244 of an earlier thread, where you said there were other majority ethnic Russian regions. You wrote that instead of recognizing Crimea now, Russia should have waited for regions in south/east Ukraine to join Crimea in breaking away from Ukraine, and Russia could then have said:

“See, we never wanted any piece of ukraine. We merely supported ethnic Russian regions that understandably didn’t stay in a nazi country …

244

What was my position is that those states have major parts of ethnic Russians. “Major” – not “majority” …

Sorry, but you don’t call a region an “ethnic Russian region” unless most of its inhabitants, a “majority”, are ethnic Russian.
Overall, I’m happy you’ve come around to the fact-based world. I assumed correctly that you’d pretend you hadn’t made a bonehead mistake and would ascribe my corrections to malevolence.
Keep reading, you’re learning and correcting your errors, and don’t worry about scary fantasy fairleft, that stuff ain’t real …

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 14:44 utc | 116

DM 107
It is called “territorial integrity”.
Article 2.4 UN Charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Now, who were those people in non-Russian uniforms standing around government buildings in Crimea, and who was blocking those Ukrainean Crimean bases?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 19 2014 14:45 utc | 117

http://www.novinite.com/articles/159035/Turkey+Threatens+to+Close+Bosphorus+for+Russian+Ships
Never expect any good from Erdogan

Posted by: Mina | Mar 19 2014 14:51 utc | 118

Somebody at 116: Mostly Crimean self-defense forces? By agreement with Ukraine Russia has a right to keep 25,000 troops in Crimea. That’s not Russian “threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence” of Ukraine. Crimea undergoes a revolution in which it breaks free of Ukraine. That’s not Russian “threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence” of Ukraine. The revolution is successful: there is no resistance from the Ukrainian military. That’s not Russian “threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence” of Ukraine. Russia does redeploy its troops to aid Crimean self-defense forces in their efforts to establish control over all Crimean military facilities. That might not be Russian “threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence” of Ukraine either, it might more accurately be interpreted as “”threat or use of force” to protect “the territorial integrity or political independence” of the new nation of Crimea.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 14:59 utc | 119

somebody
Was that the only thing?
russia hasnt threatened any state what they said was that they MIGHT, PROTECT, people that WANTED such help.
Besides what state? Crim doesnt recognize the coup-nazis in power.
Please tell us what international law say about SELF DETERMINATION.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2014 14:59 utc | 120

Svoboda according to the BBC (admitting in a slip that the Maidan protesters represent less than half the Ukrainians)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

Posted by: Mina | Mar 19 2014 15:06 utc | 121

Todd … Alexandr Dugin … is well-known as someone Putin respects … Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 19, 2014 8:54:34 AM | 100

Really? Well known by whom? I know Dugin has been making this claim for decades, that he is ‘influential’ and so forth, but I really can’t see how. He was, for a while, co-director with Edward Limonov of the National Bolshevik Party, now I believe classified as terrorist. That could hardly help.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 19 2014 15:07 utc | 122

118,119 – Russia did not just “protect” remember, they also “protected” a rushed referendum with questions that did not really leave much choice and had close to 100 percent results true to dictatorships and – then – they integrated Crimea into the Russian Federation thereby violating the integrity of Ukraine. If you want to believe propaganda you might as well believe Western propaganda. There is no point in critizing one and believing the other.
Self-determination – there is a right of self determination of peoples – so we are back to the drawing board on who is the people. If Putin defines people as Russian ethnic or Russian speaker this is the Eastern European recipe for war.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 19 2014 15:13 utc | 123

I’m not surprised that the zionist asshole does what zionists always do that is, to turn and bend reality to their liking. I simply pointed out fairlefts malevolent “misunderstanding” and I don’t care batshit how he interprets anything.
The cleaning job won’t be done by annihilating the criminal pseudostate iszael. Its society infesting vermin agents must – and will – be taken care of, too.
@Mina
Well, frankly who cares batshit about what cheap zus whore and meanwhile recognized embezzler and betrayer erdogan says anyway.
If he would indeed dare to ever block Russian ships, Russia would be entitled to enforce their right of passage. If erdogan “thinks” having made turkey a zato member would safe him he’s badly mistaken and even dumber than one thought.
If he still has any brains left he should carefully and urgently learn what has been so amply demonstrated by zusa; to win a war maybe difficult but to brutally damage and cripple a country, say turkey, is quite easy if one has the military power.
I’m btw. by no means against the turks; in fact it’s because I like them that I clearly say that they should get rid of erdogan and his zusa whore friends as quickly as possible. Some bullets will do just fine, no need to be elegant with scum like erdogan.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 15:20 utc | 124

As for the Crimea referendum, yes, one must be honest. It wasn’t that open and fair; the options indeed were grossly biased.
And I wonder why one acted so clumsily as it was perfectly clear anyway that even in a more open and fair ref. the result would have been “pro Russia” with overwhelming majority anyway.
I assume, and that would be understandable, that the Crimeans didn’t want to take even the slightest risk; after all they were under heavy threats from kiev and in a difficult situation.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 15:24 utc | 125

somebody
Russia has not intervened, they havent done anything they havent “protected” anything.
Stupid, its not Russia that created the referendum, of course it gave alternatives, either go with russia or get more independent.
Dictatorships?! Oh please now you are getting ridiculous, what does a democratic election have to do with dictators?! Obviously the people want to belong to the russians, heck, accept it and move on, what are you a german merkel fan now suddenly?
self determination is according to international law but now its suddenly a recipe for war according to “somebody”?!
Were you against West/East germany coming together too perhaps?!

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2014 15:33 utc | 126

Comments on the Crimea vote. At different levels, > just a list.
A) It was a symbolic vote with a foregone conclusion, these are always expected to return around or more than 90% “yes”. Such votes are implemented to claim ‘democracy’ legitimacy. So the 85 or so plus was guaranteed. They often take place in conditions or on questions that are not considered ‘legal’ or ‘proper’ by Western critics.
b) When two questions are put – for joining Russia, yes or no, for returning to the 1992 Constitution, yes or no, voters tend to parse this as an either/or alternative, which it is not, but that pulls votes to the most popular option. – 1
c) When a large majority, over 75% (general benchmark), is present, it will mobilize at least 2 – 10% extra – the undecided, non-voters, etc. (Depends on the issue. More important, more of the swing votes for the majority option.)
d) If one can muster an economic argument in favor of the ppl, one can get at least 2% to 10% extra, even if they hate you, your party, your position on other topics, the issue / proposition itself, the whole shmear, etc.
In Crimea, only the ‘yays’ campaigned, not that they needed to, but standard, such as, cheaper gas, higher and guaranteed pensions, possibility to go to Russian Universities (more mobility), etc. Salaries and living standards in Russia are higher than in the Ukr., that holds even in Crimea. Russia is Crimea’s Eldorado in a way.. (Afaik nobody mentioned that Crimeans would be conscripted and might be sent…to Chechnya..)
The ‘legality’ of this vote is open to many interpretations.
If I’m here and posting / reading, it is because I hope I – and others – can learn for the future, by for. ex. understanding what exactly went down in Urk. (The history books will be a long time coming and will be imho questionable at least for the first ones published..) So I offer what I know about voting, others can detail other aspects.
1 Do you agree to Ban all dogs? yes or no. Do you agree to Ban dogs of over 25 kilos? yes or no. Ppl who hate dogs vote yes to ban them all and no to the second option. Properly, a third question should be appended: if both alternatives are accepted, which do you prefer? 🙂 .. The second question in the Crimea vote was a move to attain a democratic ‘stamp’, an alternative was offered and not favored.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 19 2014 15:40 utc | 127

The aim is to isolate Europe from Russia. Petri K. @ 33
This is a no. 1 aim.
Geographical Europe, or the EU as controlled by Brussels, cannot be allowed to join with its natural close territorial partners or potential ones (trade, energy, pipelines, culture, etc.) but must remain absolutely under US domination.
Otherwise the US looses power, new alliances might be very detrimental to the US, it would be even more isolated and vilified and well… events would move forward apace.
For now, the US is managing, with military superiority and control, NATO, IMF (which it controls) threat and blackmail and general mayhem, to keep the lid on, though it is boiling. The US knee-jerk response it to reduce the recalcitrant, or anyone for that matter, to rubble. Make examples, e.g. Greece. The likes of Hollande and Merkel prefer to bow down.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 19 2014 15:55 utc | 128

somebody at 122: Russia did not ‘protect’ the referendum. What does that even mean? There was no threat to the referendum so there was no need to ‘defend’ it or protect it.
And now you’re saying it was illegitimate or ‘fixed’ without evidence and against the testimony of international observers.
Crimea broke free of Ukraine. If ‘international law’ has a beef it is with the legislature, leaders and voters of the former autonomous republic. (I side with the voters: they’re legitimate and law applied with great inconsistency is not.) Not Russia, which accepted Crimea into the federation. Is there international law against unifying with a country that asks for that?

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 15:58 utc | 129

Pragma at 123:

The cleaning job won’t be done by annihilating the criminal pseudostate iszael. Its society infesting vermin agents must – and will – be taken care of, too.

Pretty damn ugly and bloodthirsty, and anti-Semitic. Whoever raised you should be ashamed. Or do you even reveal this unhinged hateful side to your parents?
Okay then, let’s all ignore Prag’s evil bloodthirsty side and move on. Nothing to see here, move along. Don’t wanna get on his bad side now, do you?!

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 16:06 utc | 130

@96 somebody
uy!
What Putin is doing with Crimea is not international law. He is doing a “Bush” and “Clinton” here, however, that does not make it any better.
Unlike Bush who forced people to submit by force, Putin is fulfilling the will of a 96.7% majority of the Crimean vote and the majority of Russians both of whom yearned for this outcome. Unlike Clinton with Kosovo, in Crimea no shots were fired, no bombs dropped, no one killed to fulfill the will of the majority of Crimeans who felt rightly threatened by an imposed government; who’s first deed was to try to make ethnic Russians second-class citizens by revising a language law that as Putin put is was merely set aside for another time.
What Putin is doing??? Whaaht? Putin did nothing; Crimeans did it all; he merely made it official.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 16:09 utc | 131

Yeah right, izraels wanton mass murders are “the beacon of democracy”. Those, however, who think the world would be a better place without the zionist mass murderers are evil anti-semites.
What a lousy zionist scum bag …

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 16:12 utc | 132

@99 Anonymous
Your got somebody pegged. Very perceptive.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 16:15 utc | 133

kalithea
Let’s not split hairs here. Have you looked at the referendum banners? They even showed a big fat check mark in the “right” box. In any civilized country that would be called biased and in gross violation of democratic principles.
Again: Why those tricks tainting the referendum? It was clear that the vast majority would go for “pro Russia” anyway even under perfectly legal, clean and fair circumstances. So why those tainting tricks, all but inviting criticism and attacks on the referendum?
As far as I’m concerned there’s a bad smell with the referendum and with Russias very quick acceptance of Crimea into Russia. And it makes me – and probably others, too – thinking. After all, neither Crimea nor Russia were under any time pressure, the results were clear in advance, and both the referendum and the acceptance could, without risking any problems, been handled cleaner and wiser.
Crimea and Russia could – and should – have acted in a better way not leaving the slightest gap for zusa/zeu to hit on. And both were in an excellent position; Crimea was perfectly safe and very well protected and both, Russia and Crimea could be perfectly sure that Crimea would “return home”.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 16:24 utc | 134

fairleft # 129. We spend a lot of time here criticizing many states for criminal behavior. Is Israel somehow exempt? Let’s try this again: criticizing Germany /= hating Germans. Why oh why is Israel exempt? Their behavior in Gaza and the West Bank IS criminal, and I’ll be damned if anyone is going to tell me I can’t say that, A) in general: I have the right and I WILL USE IT; and B) because, as noted, criticizing Israel is in no way criticism of all Jews.
So stop. Just stop.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 16:26 utc | 135

I got home last night and saw some of Putin’s address on the accession of Crimea and Sevastopol with the Russian Federation. How refreshing! To hear the feckless lies of Obama, Cameron, Merkel et al. fulsomely exposed.
I followed that up with viewing video of a tired Biden pooping out his stale mendacity in Warsaw while his Polish counterpart stood by and fidgeted uncomfortably.
What a stark contrast! The West should do itself a favor and just unconditionally surrender. They have been thoroughly trounced, particularly in the information war.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 19 2014 16:33 utc | 136

@100 Ozawa
I don’t take anything Todd writes seriously, because his perception is clouded by American hubris. He sees the world and in this case Putin and Russia through a distorted prism made in America.
Why would Putin capitulate on the issue of Syria, when there are more extremist jihadis in Syria than in Chechnya, when there are more fascist salafis in Syria than neo-nazis in Ukraine, when Putin mentioned these kinds of fabricated revolutions in his speech, when these revolutions are made in the U.S. with the help of intelligence services and violent shit disturbers with the goal of expanding U.S. and Nato hegemony? Why would Putin capitulate to serve this agenda, when he’s trying to steer in another direction?
Todd here seems to think that Putin operates under the guidelines of the U.S. playbook. He seems to think that in order for a leader of another sovereign country to get something he must capitulate on his principles and his policy and submit something to the U.S. lordship because Americans just can’t believe that there is such a thing as moral victory against the U.S. because Americans think they are the moral rulers of the planet. Americans can’t conceive any other country scoring a victory against the U.S. They’re that arrogant. Well news to him; Putin will not capitulate to America’s specifications, and he will not play with their playbook, what he will do is use their playbook against them, use their playbook to set them up! There is a reason that Russia has always been viewed in America as the arch-nemesis. Americans know that if anyone can beat them at their game; it’s Russia only the rules will be very different, the rules won’t be set by the U.S. anymore. The U.S. has lost something very big – the respect of the global population. U.S. prestige and moral authority, if you can call it that, is on the decline.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 16:40 utc | 137

Mike Maloney
Indeed. I had similar thoughts. Next to Putin all those zamerican and zeuropean puppets look like brainless jabberers.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 16:45 utc | 138

Thomas;I think you are an investor in the Citizenchip,implanted at birth to control thought.Sheesh,another Zionist knucklehead.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 19 2014 16:49 utc | 139

kalithea, #136. Yes. This is in no way an excuse but it’s very hard to escape/de-program yourself from what you’ve been indoctrinated in since birth and still hear all the time everywhere around you. Add to that a serious trauma (the Holocaust, 9/11, whatever) AND serious propaganda efforts to inculcate and steer your fears and biases. Israelis and Americans are really to be pitied, bc they’re being used for geopolitical/geostrategic purposes without any care for their own well-being, like sheep or cattle. But Todd is here, and hopefully he’s learning; it’s just a long process to throw off all you’ve been taught your entire life. Hopefully, he’ll stick with the process!

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 16:52 utc | 140

Why is the name transliterated “Yanukovych” with a “y”, and not “Yanukovich” with an “i”? The name, in both Russian and Ukrainian, is spelt “Януко́вич” in Cyrillic. That last vowel, “и”, is transliterated “i”, not “y”, at least in Russian (where the vowel transliterated “y” is “ы”), but I assume also in Ukrainian.

Posted by: lysias | Mar 19 2014 17:00 utc | 141

Thomas, please share your contact information so that I may send you my actual pencil-written response. Thanks.

Posted by: BobS | Mar 19 2014 17:05 utc | 142

lysias
Oh well, those transliterations vary greatly anyway, often depending on the target audience. One can see that also with the Jachont missile that also gets transliterated as yachont, yakhont, and others.
And frankly, with many americans in any audience it’s quite meaningless anyway because they butcher pretty everything anyway. As in “cosmos” (which often freaks me out when hearing americans butcher that word) they pronounce the “ko/co” in Януко́вич anyway like the “co” in “co-operate”.
And then, of course, there is also the fact that cyrillic letters aren’t just other letters for the same sounds. The ‘Я’, for instance, doesn’t exist at all in any/most all other languages. So it’s not that easy anyway.
But well, I think, we all know who is meant.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 17:21 utc | 143

@133 Mr. Pragma
You know how much I enjoy your insight and your often humorous twist on things, but you must have been watching CNN’s take on ballot enhancement, and besides referendums have to have some aggressive publicity when so much is at stake. Sure there’s a little underestimation of the public’s intelligence – but why risk people spoiling a ballot or just reading things wrong? Not everyone has higher education. Crimean grandmothers who went to vote might need a little nudge; when it’s very evident why they would even come out to vote at their young-at-heart age and which side they were making the effort for. The leaders of Crimea wanted to get the message across without leaving the slightest room for doubt; that Crimea would be threatened and pursued by the fascists and Nato until their submission; until the fascist army and Nato’s fleet could access that port. When a huge threat is so imminent some parental guidance isn’t such a bad thing. I mean if there’s a child molester in the area; you enhance the safety precautions, you want to stress the safer direction to take. If you compare this referendum to U.S. elections where ballot boxes get misplaced and voting machines get fixed this referendum is about as clean as you can get under the circumstances.
And expediency was very necessary; how long do you think Crimean security could hold off the wolves at their door? How long do you think the stand-off would hold up before shots were fired, before the U.S. started playing some dirty tricks to unleash all hell and demonize and damage Putin irreperably, perhaps inside Russia, Chechnya, who knows what they would do if given more time to plot???

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 17:32 utc | 144

To Noirette @ 126
Generally interested in your comments but you were completely off-base here with a couple of points…
“…nobody mentioned that Crimeans would be conscripted and might be sent…to Chechnya..”
Hate to be the one to break it to you but Chechnya has been peaceful for about a decade, & the only non-Chechen Russian forces there tend to be elite contract soldiers – Spetznaz, VDV, etc.
You might of meant Dagestan or Ingushetia but the same applies – mostly contract professionals or local forces, & casualties are down to maybe a dozen a year for military personnel (mostly locals).

“…When two questions are put – for joining Russia, yes or no, for returning to the 1992 Constitution, yes or no, voters tend to parse this as an either/or alternative, which it is not, but that pulls votes to the most popular option…”
Completely false. This is about a wide a meaningful choice that could be put on the ballot.
A return to original 1992 Crimean constitution puts the power for most major decisions firmly in the lap of the Crimean parliament, while re-affirming that they are part of Ukraine. This would of allowed them to participate/negotiate with a Ukrainian parliament whose present make-up that most clearly don’t trust from the strongest position available as ‘Ukrainians’.
What the vote clearly demonstrated is that the majority of people in Crimea simply regard Ukraine’s state functions as broken – there is simply nothing meaningful left in the political process to participate/negotiate with.

Posted by: KenM | Mar 19 2014 17:41 utc | 145

kalithea (142)

And expediency was very necessary; how long do you think Crimean security could hold off the wolves at their door? How long do you think the stand-off would hold up before shots were fired, before the U.S. started playing some dirty tricks to unleash all hell and demonize and damage Putin irreperably, perhaps inside Russia, Chechnya, who knows what they would do if given more time to plot???

The security of Crimea depends on their own militia and on Russian troups who actually by far outnumber anything ukraine could bring to bear. It does *not* depend on formally being a free state or being a part of Russia.
Similarly zusas dirty tricks, demonization of Putin and Russia, etc. do *not* depend on Crimea being a free state or being a part of Russia. If at all, Crimea having become a part of Russia *added* to zusas anger and frenzy.
That’s one of the reasons I do not consider Putins way of handling the situation the best imaginable.
*if* there were major concerns about Crimeas security the Crimea becoming a part of Russia rather increased that danger; after all noboday doubted – or had the slightest reason to doubt – Russias readiness to go full scale military to defend and protect Crimea anyway, no matter what. Furthermore ukraines resources didn’t grow or shrink by Crimea becoming a part of Russia or not.
I’m still convinced that Putin is way smarter than the weztern puppets and I’m absolutely ready to accept that Putin might have known something that we don’t know. But then, our interpretations de nature rely in what we know and not on what we don’t know.
As for the referendum, I see all the reasons, the less literate grandmas aso., but that doesn’t change the fact that an official organization is not supposed to show posters with ballots which are checked with the “right option”. Grandmas have kids and neighbours and there were other and less tainted ways to inform them.
I’m about the least zusa friendly guy on this planet, rest assured, but you see, it’s the beginning of a dangerous path when one makes “compromises” in basic issues because there are “reasons”. After all, Hitler had reasons, too, and so had Stalin and even zusa has “reasons”.
This is, in fact, one of the points where Putin was (until now) perfectly well positioned; he simply didn’t make those questionable compromises. White was white and black was black; proper democratic proceedings were just that, no exceptions, no “reasons”, and so were agreements and international law.
Put this next to the zusa way … where congressmen end up selecting between diverse “reasons” and the amounts linked to them…
zusa is a perfect example where tainting here and compromises there for “reasons” leads to.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 17:51 utc | 146

kalithea,
One brilliant post after another on this thread. Thanks.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 19 2014 17:52 utc | 147

Haha, Kiev want Crimea to be de militarized, also they impose visa regime on Russia/Ukraine. Stupid since ukrainians are in need of russia for work, jobs etc.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2014 17:54 utc | 148

Nora at 134: I did stop and you continued. Please stop, just stop, dancing for the troll.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 17:56 utc | 149

Anonymous
The people are and the businesses. But not the criminal gang at the helm of ukraine. or at least they are too stupid and too criminal to understand it.
Rest assured – and the events demonstrate that every day amply – that the terrorist regime in kiev doesn’t care batshit about the ukrainian people.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 17:56 utc | 150

Mr Pragma
If they keep rejecting Russia their GDP will go down the toilet. Or will EU pay for it? Not the smartest people kiev..

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2014 18:05 utc | 151

This is, in fact, one of the points where Putin was (until now) perfectly well positioned; he simply didn’t make those questionable compromises.

I don’t understand why you’re blaming Putin for the mistakes made by the Crimean authorities. They were rushed, amateurish, and enthusiastically pro-Russian, and so those sorts of mistakes were made. Putin was being as hands-off as possible and likely had nothing to do with ballot wording and voting room posters.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 18:05 utc | 152

Ban Ki Moon is headed to Russia and Ukraine, presumably to present the deal already agreed upon, although the Syria thing is a side agreement. Russia has to play by our rules because our allies surround them. When they start signing alliances with China the paradigm shifts. That does not mean they can not have victories. It just means they have to beat us at what we do best.

Posted by: Todd Bennett | Mar 19 2014 18:06 utc | 153

#147 Huh?
a) You’re no troll and you’ve often got good stuff to say; b) I’ll remember you said you stopped; and c) I’ve been advising everyone to ignore trolls, so I’m hardly gonna dance for one.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 18:09 utc | 154

Todd, honest questions here: If what we do best is destroy (Iraq, Libya, etc., etc.), how does anyone stop us? And secondly, does Russia being bordered by our allies actually matter if Russia isn’t into empire like we are? I might add that Rome, Spain and Britain, the three I know most about, all lost their empires (and became very reactionary, to put it mildly) bc it just cost too much money — ultimately you can maintain the perimeters or keep up the polity at home, not both.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 18:16 utc | 155

@129 fairleft
Do me a favor; will you? Go spend some time in the Palestinian occupied territories or get more familiar with what Israeli Jews, the paragons of virtue are doing to Palestinians.
You want to see what “evil and bloodthirsty” really looks like: So far this year and ONLY in Gaza, mind you, 18 Palestinians were slaughtered and 110 injured INCLUDING CHILDREN – yes, as usual, children were killed and maimed as well by Zionist Jews! And this excludes protesters killed on the West Bank. You want to see what real evil looks like: Israeli soldiers shot young Palestinian athletes with promising soccer careers in the feet, and they’ll never be able to play again, and maybe not even walk again! And this because these Jews, Israeli Jews, who cares, they’re supported by the majority that live in Israel and the U.S.; they can’t stand the fact that Palestinians can rise up on an international level in sport and culture and get deserved recognition. Palestinian potential actually represents a threat to these Zionist Jews; so they brutally try to suppress it.
I can give you an encyclopedic reference of brutality and bloodthirsty evil committed against the Palestinian people. Sure anger against the inability of Jews to grow a conscience on this issue and put a stop to this brutality gets out of hand, but this evil, this cruelty, this theft, this carnage against Palestinians has been going on for decaaaades! How long must we all restrain our outcry against Jewish impotence on this issue, against their complicity on this issue, against their implicit abettement of these bloodthirsty acts on men, women and children held hostage in bondage for so many years? Can you control the primal scream for justice when no one seems to be listening on this issue??? I can’t! I refuse to judge those who just can’t restrain their anger any longer because this is what you get when justice is denied for so long! You get unrestrained anger – WHO’S FAULT IS IT? Jews who refuse to listen to these screams for justice that’s who! Jews who block their ears to the screams of men, women and children under the most brutal occupation in modern day history!
So, you wanna judge the unrestrained Mr. Pragma – start by screaming for justice in your Congress or your parliament or whoever the hell in your own country colludes with Zionists to enable this brutality!!! Start by judging them and yourself if you haven’t screamed out enough to stop this ongoing crime against humanity!

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 18:18 utc | 156

@somebody
i am curious to know what you think of the legality of the present gov’t of ukraine, or whether the transition process approx feb 20-22 area was all kosher based on your understanding? you appear to be suggesting a degree of unscrupulous action on the part of russia towards the crimea referendum, but within the greater context of what transpired with the ukraine gov’t feb20-22 area, how you do lose sight of the bigger context here as i see it?
thanks – james

Posted by: james | Mar 19 2014 18:21 utc | 157

Between the trolls, people feeding the trolls and people carrying on conversations between threads I’m lost here?!!??

Posted by: anti-zionist | Mar 19 2014 18:30 utc | 158

kalithea #156 AMEN. Any American who hasn’t at least spoken out about these crimes committed in our name and with our tax dollars, has no right to complain about anything else, anywhere. Just Google some pictures of Gaza and realize You. Paid. For. That.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 18:31 utc | 159

kalithea at 156: For no reason at all you assume I haven’t.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 19:32 utc | 160

@129 (Ukrainian News thread) fairleft
Do me a favor; will you? Go spend some time in the Palestinian occupied territories or get more familiar with what Israeli Jews, those paragons of virtue and democracy, are doing to Palestinians.
You want to see what “evil and bloodthirsty” really looks like: So far this year and ONLY in Gaza, mind you, 18 Palestinians were slaughtered and 110 injured INCLUDING CHILDREN – yes, as usual, children were killed and maimed as well by Zionist Jews! And this excludes protesters killed on the West Bank. You want to see what real evil looks like: Israeli soldiers shot young Palestinian athletes with promising soccer careers in the feet, and they’ll never be able to play again, and maybe not even walk again! And this because these Jews, Israeli Jews, who cares, they’re supported by the majority that live in Israel and the U.S.; they can’t stand the fact that Palestinians can rise up on an international level in sport and culture and get deserved recognition. Palestinian potential actually represents a threat to these Zionist Jews; so they brutally try to suppress it and in the case of these two young athletes destroy it permanently.
I can give you an encyclopedic reference of brutality and bloodthirsty evil committed against the Palestinian people. Sure anger against the inability of Jews to grow a conscience on this issue and put a stop to this brutality gets out of hand, but this evil, this cruelty, this theft, this carnage against Palestinians has been going on for decaaaades! How long must we all restrain our outcry against Jewish impotence on this issue, against their complicity on this issue, against their implicit abetment of these bloodthirsty acts on men, women and children held hostage in bondage for so many years? Can you control the primal scream for justice when no one seems to be listening on this issue??? I can’t! I refuse to judge those who just can’t restrain their anger any longer because this is what you get when justice is denied for so long! You get unrestrained anger – WHO’S FAULT IS IT? Jews who refuse to listen to these screams for justice that’s who! Jews who block their ears to the screams of men, women and children under the most brutal occupation in modern day history!
So, you wanna judge and shame the unrestrained Mr. Pragma? – start by screaming for justice in your Congress or your parliament or whoever the hell in your own country colludes with Jewish groups and lobbies to enable this Zionist brutality!!! Start by judging them, shaming them and yourself if you haven’t screamed out enough to stop this ongoing crime against humanity!
Because we are done with cheap talk, we are done with civil endless discourse and resurrecting extinct road maps and dead peace processes shattered in their wake by the blatant reality of facts on the ground, we are done with the farce of delaying justice and truth denying posturing while others suffer, we are done with collusion for the sake of injustice and done with Nakba denial! So it’s time for a unified PRIMAL SCREAM because this horror in a so-called democracy of evil intent against others, built by Zionism on the backs of refugees ethnically cleansed by the hundreds of thousands, and today’s millions living in abject misery and hopelessness in refugee camps and open air ghettos and prisons has lasted long enough!
So Mr. Ms or Mrs. whatever fairleft and tomas too! forgive the unrestrained blowback by some, specifically here – but never again! has been reserved for a select group of Nakba deniers who apparently hold the patent on those TWO EMPTY WORDS and such staggering hypocrisy and cruelty is starting to exact its price; it always does; a price that Jews were obviously willing to pay when they chose to hoard justice for themselves and deny it to Palestinians and other refugees in their domain under the guise of exclusive NEVER AGAIN ownership that is the tool of manipulation indefinitely used to facilitate the evil that Zionism has committed and is still committing for so many years.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 19:40 utc | 161

I reposted with amendments but meant it for another thread, sorry.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 19 2014 19:48 utc | 162

kalithea at 161: Why are you targeting me?

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 19 2014 20:21 utc | 163

@somebody,seems to me that you are mirroring the West defects and blatant dishonesty into others-in this case Russia and by doing so you are not doing yourself a favor.
@Mr.Pragma,most of the war nowadays is about perception and you cannot even start to contemplate how many -non europeans around the world are viewing the ukrainian drama.In the arab world for example people instinctively are ecstatic !Ecstatic about how Putin handled the Crimea affair,ecstatic about his speech that I personally found historic.Ecstatic about Russia showing the West that the game of using international law as a used tampax is over.Wish you’d read arabic ,you’d be moved to see how people felt vindicated for all the suffering inflicted by zusa,zeu and the zionist entity.And then it is in my understanding that in order to accept Crimea into Russia it was first necessary to acknowledge its independence.
On a lighter note Mr.Pragma if you wouldn’t exist one should really need to invent you,you are irreplaceable with your sarcastic sense of humor-as a KGB software of course!

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 19 2014 20:29 utc | 164

@Nora- There are no good guys and bad guys except the families that have to struggle through whatever hubris may bring to them. Lucky Luciano said, there is no good money, or bad money, there’s just money. Well there is no good power or bad power, there is just power. Both the west and east are full of self serving oligarchs looking to take advantage economically. Everything else is just a caricature, a projection designed to foment nationalism and support for an agenda. Do I want my country to win? I don’t want it to fight. If we fight of course I want us to survive and overcome. That does not mean I want our adversary destroyed, indeed, you should want to win, not defeat, the mentality is entirely different.
But what we do best is not bombing the middle eastern world, Nora.
What we do best is fooling the world.

Posted by: Todd Bennett | Mar 19 2014 20:37 utc | 165

Todd, I’m pretty much in agreement with everything up to your last two lines. Starting with Yugoslavia and going “color revolution” by “color revolution”, we’ve destroyed every place we went in to “protect”. Ukraine was a mess before we went it: do you honestly think it’s going to get any better? Our oligarchs couldn’t care less. And sadly, as for your last line, at this point there’s nobody being fooled but the American public. Scared of our capacity to destroy? Yes. But not fooled: We The People are the only fools left, and it’s a bi-partisan condition.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 19 2014 20:45 utc | 166

Nobody
Just between you and me: I’m not anymore KGB. Meanwhile I’ve become version 1.4 and FSB.
But officially I still print my version out as “V. 0.2 rusty (c) by KGB” to please weztern ideas about Russia.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 19 2014 20:48 utc | 167

Then you know most of our adventurism has been about drugs.

Posted by: Todd Bennett | Mar 19 2014 20:50 utc | 168

That is the thing I don’t get, the sheer iron balls to say, ok, you overthrew an elected President, established a puppet government, then you get all bitchy when Putin wants to establish stability where his freakin nukes are. Duh. He can’t risk extremists taking those subs, and if you think about it, he did us a favor, because nutjobs with nukes is not a good idea for a reality show. My question to Obama is if he gets overthrown, is that constitutional? No. So how are you going to preach about Ukraine’s constitution when I am fairly certain it does not have a murder officials and string up your leaders clause?

Posted by: Todd Bennett | Mar 19 2014 20:58 utc | 169

Quite good article about Ukraine in the March 20 London Review of Books by James Meek. He tries to be even-handed between the two sides, but nevertheless he makes quite clear what powerful positions the neofascists (Banderovtsy, they’re apparently called, i.e., followers of Bandera) have gotten in the revolutionary Ukrainian government.

Posted by: lysias | Mar 19 2014 22:37 utc | 170

(in general, but @Mr Pragma in particular)
as others have pointed out, the context in which the Crimea annexation counts a lot
a Nato-Nazi coup in Kiev, gangs roaming around, Us gloating convinced they “won”, fooled Russia (and the EU), taken a new pawn into Nato …
all of a sudden, Kerry talks with Lavrov about constitutional reform and neutrality for Ukraine
what caused the turn-about? I think Crimea sent the right message; the west upped the ant, and Russia responded in kind; I think it didn’t have a choice – either that, or declare defeat; the people in Crimea, Russia, the world over instinctively perceive this as a defeat of western colonialism
maybe the real issue when judging Putin’s action, is whether the situation was about to deteriorate for western forces and puppets; I think not; Ukraine seemed about to be taken over by increasingly aggressive western thugs, but then Crimea’s annexation showed Russia’s determination to fight over Ukraine, causing a change of mind of the Usa and EU

Posted by: claudio | Mar 19 2014 22:51 utc | 171

Todd’s just another troll, Nora. Gotta ignore him. Sounds like one of Rush’s ditto-heads. Wastes our time, like trolls always do.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 19 2014 23:24 utc | 172