The EU U.S. Tug Over Ukraine Policy
Yesterday I doubted that a certain Obama administration "leak" to the New York Times was truthful:
While Merkel and other EU politicians seems to want to calm the situation down the White House feels domestic political pressure to do more of "something". That is likely why we see this "leak" in today's New York Times:
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany told Mr. Obama by telephone on Sunday that after speaking with Mr. Putin she was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. “In another world,” she said.This does not sound like typically Merkel but rather strange for her. I doubt that she said that the way the "people briefed on the call" told it to the Times stenographer. It is rather an attempt to discredit Merkel and to make it more difficult for her to find a solution with Russia outside of U.S. control.
The German government, through the conservative, Merkel supporting daily Die Welt, denied the correctness of that quote. Die Welt writes (my translation):
The chancellery is unhappy about the report in the New York Times. Merkel by no means meant to express that Putin behaved irrational. In fact she told Obama that Putin has a different perspective about the Crimea [than Obama has].
No, I am no supporter or defender of Merkel, but the tug over the Ukraine is as much between the EU and the United States as it is between the "west" and the "east". Yes, the EU screwed up its Ukraine strategy by giving an ultimatum to Yanukovich to sign an association agreement and, when he rejected, by instigating trouble in Kiev. But what the U.S. is doing is worse. It managed to sabotage the February 21 comprise three EU foreign minister had negotiated between Yanukovich and his opposition and ordered fascist storm troupers onto the Ukrainian parliament to press it to illegally "elect" its favorite candidate to head the Ukraine. Six members of the fascists Bandera follower party Svoboda are now part of the illegitimate Ukrainian government. Certain U.S. policymakers seem to want war with Russia. The Europeans have very different interests.
All favored comments below the Merkel piece in Die Welt are taking the Russian position in this conflict and point out the fascists in the Ukrainian government. This in a paper with a usually conservative and very pro-American readership. The German public, despite an anti-Russian propaganda campaign in most main-strem media, is certainly not on the side of the United States and its NATO interventionists.
There is a long "tradition" of using fascist nationalist groups against Russia. That country lost over 20 million people fighting fascism and for Russians to see fascists ruling in Kiev is therefore an incredible assault on their national identity. Russians know their history and they certainly know who is standing behind these fascists. That is likely what Merkel told Obama about Putin's perspective.
The Svoboda and the RightSector in the Ukraine see themselves in the tradition of Stepan Bandera, a Galician ultranationalist, brutal terrorist, fascist and later asset of many "western" secret services. An eyeopening book by the U.S. National Archives about Hitler's Shadows - Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence and the Cold War (pdf) includes a chapter on "Collaborators: Allied Intelligence and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists". Some excerpts:
British operations through Bandera expanded. An early 1954 MI6 summary noted that, “the operational aspect of this [British] collaboration [with Bandera] was developing satisfactorily. Gradually a more complete control was obtained over infiltration operations and although the intelligence dividend was low it was considered worthwhile to proceed....”
...
Bandera was, according to his handlers, “a professional underground worker with a terrorist background and ruthless notions about the rules of the game.... A bandit type if you like, with a burning patriotism, which provides an ethical background and a justification for his banditry. No better and no worse than others of his kind...
...
In April 1959 Bandera again asked West German intelligence for support and this time Gehlen was interested. The CIA noted that, “It [is] apparent that Bandera [is] seeking support for illegal ops into Ukraine.” The West Germans agreed to support at least one such mission based on the “fact [that] Bandera and group no longer the cut throats they were” and because Bandera “supplied proof [of] existing contact with inside assets.” A team trained and funded by the BND crossed from Czechoslovakia in late July, and the BND promised Bandera support for future operations if this one were to be even “moderately successful.”
...
In June 1985 the General Accounting Office mentioned Lebed’s name in a public report on Nazis and collaborators who settled in the United States with help from U.S. intelligence agencies. The Office of Special Investigations (OSI) in the Department of Justice began investigating Lebed that year. The CIA worried that public scrutiny of Lebed would compromise QRPLUMB and that failure to protect Lebed would trigger outrage in the Ukrainian émigré community. It thus shielded Lebed by denying any connection between Lebed and the Nazis and by arguing that he was a Ukrainian freedom fighter. The truth, of course, was more complicated. As late as 1991 the CIA tried to dissuade OSI from approaching the German, Polish, and Soviet governments for war-related records related to the OUN. OSI eventually gave up the case, unable to procure definitive documents on Lebed. Mykola Lebed, Bandera’s wartime chief in Ukraine, died in 1998. He is buried in New Jersey, and his papers are located at the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard University.
There is little doubt that U.S. secret services and certain neo-con politicians are still pulling the strings of the fascist movements in the Ukraine. Who else would have trained them, as Putin alleges, in neighboring countries. It is their russophobia that is now threatening European peace.
Posted by b on March 4, 2014 at 10:11 UTC | Permalink
« previous pagefeels like Putin and Russia will come out of this much diminished. He lost momentum, showed indecision and sensitivity to browbeating on issues that should be of paramount importance to Russia. This is Putin's donkey moment as in that Aesop tale of a donkey and lion. He is the donkey and he will lose his standing in Russia soon...
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 5:58 utc | 102
Diverse details
The RT woman:
First I think it wasn't even "against Russia" (or Putin). Frankly, I think she's just plain stupid but well meaning (girly style pseudo intellectual peace! thingy).
Second, her accent and english *strongly* suggests that she's zamerican anyway. That's like the confirmation stamp of "stupid".
Will she be fired? Don't think so. It's tactically way smarter and more useful to keep her alive on air. She'll be dumped later. Not for failing to robotically praise Putin but simply for being painfully stupid. A journalist should be capable to see at least somewhat beyond the surface.
zusa/zeu sanctions or even mil. action:
Zamericans are dumb, O.K. But they can't be *that* dumb. By now their advisors must have explained to them, that doing more than making some threatening noises of the sort that mean plain nothing but sound nicely dangerous is about the smartest (and most tough) option. Anything beyond that will just turn against themselves.
Mil. action? Don't make me laugh.
Well, thinking again I wouldn't completely exclude it though. After all zusa already has good experience (in *their* eyes) with dumping nuclear waste somewhere. Someone over there might have the idea to dump worthless stupid zusa soldiers, too.
Negotiations and dialogue:
Actually I think that's one of the reasons pressing Putin somewhat and creating a tight schedule. After all, he knows that a) they just want to win time to b) start an even bigger PR war and to think up sanctions. He also knows that whatever he says will be turned against him and that the wezt still has one powerful weapon, their presstitutes. Last but not least he knows that weztern politicians lie even before moving their lips.
That's good reasons to prefer something like what I've drawn in my prognosis. It's also way more elegant.
ukraine UN remark (widely unnoted):
the ukrainian ambassador to the UN insulted Russian as well as jews, ukrainians and whomnot by bending some Nuremberg facts.
People in the west might consider this a small detail. Well it's not in the fore Sovjet sphere incl. ukraine. They are pissed off big time. And, of course, Russia plays it loud and paints it again and again in shrill colours.
But then we are getting used to smart and sensible moves by the ukrainian "government" ...
greenwald:
greenwald, according to some investigators has bought pants in a shop well known to be linked to an undercover communist gshq shop.
(Haha, just joking. But sure enough it would warrant a profound and lengthy discussion incl. his mothers favourite cake and why she use flour with red(!) letters on it)
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 6:01 utc | 103
What was the point of reading the letter from Yanukovich to Putin in the UN???? To justify invasion?? Does Russia really need a letter from that sniffling cowardly loser in order to act? If they invaded and liberated Kiev and Lvov from the nazis and then read the letter, that would be strength. In this situation it is weakness. Putin will be a loser by association with Yanukovich and rightly so...
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 6:05 utc | 104
CC
Well, frankly you do not deserve an answer after what you've written so far. But I'm generous.
That "sniffling cowardly loser" as you call him, happens to be the democratically elected and official acting president of ukraine. And no lies from kyiv, washington, berlin or wehereever can change that fact.
In fact, that letter is the legally relevant way to authorize another country to militarily engage.
It might have gotten lost to many in the zionistic wezt but, you know, actually there are binding international laws although zamericans, the criminal thugs they are, don't care about them.
Oh, and: Kindly include me in your dislikes, too.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 6:14 utc | 105
@105
An election to an office does not make one wise, brave, etc. Yanukovich's failure as a leader in large part led to this situation. And that characterization to which you object is not fully mine. In the press conference Putin says Yanukovich has no political future and was allowed in Russia on humanitarian basis. In other words, Putin did NOT call for restoration of what you call lawfully elected president to power. I mean that would've been such an obvious power play to provide funding and technical support to an unlawfully deposed leader so that he can restore order and return his office, right? But Putin did not do this! and backhandedly with that single sentence LEGITIMIZED the coup! Putin accepted the "facts on the ground" over the law. I wish he did not and stuck to principles, like you propose, but he did not...
My reading of Putin is that Yanukovich is a complete loser who has lost his power base and respect. I admit I am being harsh here, but this are harsh times and that is the essence. Yanukovich is a coward for running away. He is coward for doing nothing, no government in exile, no calls on the Ukrainian people not to recognize the coup, nothing... Many in the East were saying that Yanukovich is deficient but he is our president and we need to coalesce around him. People were going to vote for him again this coming May. But there is nothing from him but silence, which further LEGITIMIZES the coup. The coup leaders spread the rumor that Tanukovich has died...
And he snivels, just watch his final couple of interviews. I don't claim to be tough or wise or anything, then again I don't lead other men either.
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 7:01 utc | 106
very interesting group of young independent left wing ukrainians:
Posted by: thomas | Mar 5 2014 7:27 utc | 107
CC (106)
Wise, strong, whatever. That's all irrelevant or, more precisely was relevant *before* he was elected. The ukrainians voting for him should have looked closer.
Now he *is* the duly elected acting president.
That discussion with me makes no sense. Because I also think that he is an incompetent, spineless, corrupt asshole. But they voted him into office. Period.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 7:35 utc | 108
I imagine that Yanukovich a) hasn't been a 'reliable' partner for russia b) Putin thinks of him as a weak player c) is not held in high regard among the average ukrainian folks.
So he'll probably be used as a symbol for the illegality of the putsch and speak the lines that the kremlin wants him to, but not much more.
Just speculating, but I'd expect that one kind of deal (put aside referenda for an independent split-state) russia might agree with is a nationwide election to their conditions. If they come up with a proper and trustworthy candidate (most of all: not corrupt, second: neutral foreign policy), that might be a big win for russia. A neutral Ukraine, maybe even with some ties to the EU (much less leaning towards NATO) and extended russian influence in Crimea imho would be alright for russia.
The goldman/swoboda crew imho, if they ever had much of a support, won't have a chance in a *real* election with some half-decent rival candidate. People have already gotten a taste of what they want to do.
Unfortunately, US/Nato, at this point, won't be interested in real elections. Maybe some weeks or months from now, they'll be somewhat worn down and agree to a nil-nil?
Sorry for only speculating wildly, frankly I wouldn't bet on anything right now and am just curiously following things ;-)
Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 5 2014 7:36 utc | 109
It is a "game of oligarchs". Should we really back their football clubs or political parties?
British Officials Oppose Sanctions Because Russia's Elite Are London's Cash Cows
f you’re looking for Russia’s weak point at the moment, you could do worse than start at 88 West Heath Road, a house in leafy north London. It looks modest enough, but it would probably set you back $15 million.It is the primary residence of Andrey Yakunin. His father, Russian Railways chief executive Vladimir Yakunin, is a former KGB agent and longtime pal of President Vladimir Putin. He was also a lead organizer of the Sochi Olympics and heads National Glory of Russia, an organization that aims to protect Russians from Western culture. (In a barely-readable book called Problems of Contemporary World Futurology, he predicted the collapse of the West in 10-20 years). His wife, Natalya, is in the same trade. She heads Sanctity of Motherhood, which propagates the “many-child family” through traditional Russian values and Orthodox Christianity. Their son Andrey is a fund manager, a graduate of the London Business School, and a specialist in “mid-market business hotels,” particularly ones that adjoin Russian train stations. His son Igor, in turn, attends a posh English private school.
f you’re looking for Russia’s weak point at the moment, you could do worse than start at 88 West Heath Road, a house in leafy north London. It looks modest enough, but it would probably set you back $15 million.It is the primary residence of Andrey Yakunin. His father, Russian Railways chief executive Vladimir Yakunin, is a former KGB agent and longtime pal of President Vladimir Putin. He was also a lead organizer of the Sochi Olympics and heads National Glory of Russia, an organization that aims to protect Russians from Western culture. (In a barely-readable book called Problems of Contemporary World Futurology, he predicted the collapse of the West in 10-20 years). His wife, Natalya, is in the same trade. She heads Sanctity of Motherhood, which propagates the “many-child family” through traditional Russian values and Orthodox Christianity. Their son Andrey is a fund manager, a graduate of the London Business School, and a specialist in “mid-market business hotels,” particularly ones that adjoin Russian train stations. His son Igor, in turn, attends a posh English private school.
Putin may project a macho image by getting his guns out at any opportunity, but his actual power is based on elite support, and the elite supports him because he has made it rich beyond the dreams of avarice. For example, Vladimir Yakunin and Putin were neighbors in St. Petersburg. Putin made Yakunin head of Russian Railways, and now, Yakunin owns a palace outside Moscow, where the bathhouse alone has a reported floor area of 15,000 square feet.
...
English law regulates many energy contracts in Russia, and oligarchs love using the London courts to resolve their disputes. Reports in The Lawyer detail the sums of money on offer, with lawyers regularly picking up millions from oligarch clients. More than 60 percent of the London Commercial Court’s workload now comes from Russia and Eastern Europe, and the pay-offs are huge. Lord Sumption waited until he had finished defending Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich, for a reported fee of $5 million, before taking up a position on Britain’s Supreme Court.Cameron’s re-election hopes will be boosted by a buoyant stock market, and more than 50 companies that operate in Russia are listed on the main market of the London Stock Exchange. That means a lot of work for London financial professionals, not least in the debt market, which has been tapped by—among many other—Russian Railways.
And so on - the whole article is worth a read. This being exposed in the media now should give also pause for thought.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5 2014 8:01 utc | 110
That RT lady is the typical young idealistic fool that the West wants.
I don't think RT will fire her - there's no point in that. But she's isolated herself in that organization and will leave on her own accord.
But Western msm will "report" new of her "defection" from the brutal RT news organization.
She'll be given a heroic welcome back home for being on the "right side" of history etc etc. She'll write a book about her work under the brutal RT organization and be given a job at one of the msm - bbc, cnn, fox etc etc y'know to bump up ratings.
From her rants, she clearly lacks history lessons - typical of most American kids. Funny how no western journalist was that vocal on tv when their governments launched brutal wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc etc.. I guess there's more freedom of expression at RT than any of the Western msm????
Posted by: Zico | Mar 5 2014 8:03 utc | 111
@108
I understand your point, understand mine. This is a forum for an exchange of ideas. Did I call for his ouster? No. What I am saying is this:
a) Putin did not call for restoration of law/Yanukovich and legitimized the coup
b) Yanukovich did not call upon the Ukrainian people to rally around him and thus legitimized the coup and did not uphold the law
c) A majority of Ukrainian people would have rallied around Yanukovich because he is the president and they elected him
Here's a question, what do you do when an elected official does not appear to want the job and does not resign?
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 8:11 utc | 112
zusa and zato are completely irrelevant at this point. To say what they'd like or not like might be a hobby of theirs but carries no factual or legal relevance whatsoever.
Furthermore, *every* people is always gracefully accepting any chance for a referendum. All that needs to be done is to find and show evidence of the crimes, besides those that are anyway publicly experienced and known. Considering all the crimes that have already been committed by the wezts puppets as well as those that are currently going on behind the scenes, there will be no problem whatsoever to find ample evidence against bot zusa/zeu and against criminal their stooges.
*No* people likes alien powers to rob and plunder their country and to terrorize it with criminals despots and thugs.
This will almost neccessarily lead to constituational changes and even more so as the split ukrainian option will stay looming at the horizon.
Furthermore, the wezt has basically no chance to object if yanukovich prepares elections or a referendum. While it's not important, what zusa/zeu object or not, it adds a level of elegance and a solid slap in zusas/zeus face, if yanukovich proposes and implements strictly democratic steps.
In the end it's simple. The weztern powers tried and failed. And they have no chance to enforce their wishes militarily. Iraq and Afghanistan were almost too big as opponents for zusa. Against Russia any military attempt would prove to be suicidal.
That's why I'd love zusa to try it - and that's why they won't try.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 8:14 utc | 113
"The bathhouse alone is 15,000 sq feet"
This shows that this guy has no idea what he is talking about. A bathhouse in Russia usually includes one or more sauna, a Turkish bath, a swimming pool, and a gym.
But we are supposed to think that the princes and actresses the MSM talk about all day are not enjoying that in their Colorado private resorts or their UK countryside mansions...
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 8:24 utc | 114
By the way, about the Brits not ready to sell off their cash cows (piled on their little problem with Qatar/KSA it would really be bad luck), the BBC had an article which they ran at the same time when they keep the ultimatum hoax (long after it had been denied by the Russians: in fact they kept it all along yesterday among the hot points as if it was real, with a "ultimatum pass nothing happened").
The article was about a document "photographed" as it was carried by someone walking in Downing Street and which once zoomed into showed that they did not intend to place measures againt the Russian assets in the City (see here: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26426969 )
Since when would the BBC publish anything without a gov green light?
I must say they have reached unknown heights in hysteria yesterday.
The bogus ultimatum was said by some Ukrainian milutary "to be true but not official , it came by mobile phones", and a journalist trying to explain why the parolympics of Sotchi should be boycotted explained that it is "just 500 km from Crimea". etc.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 8:33 utc | 115
neonazis and alqaeda join forces in Ukraine with US and EU (of War on Terror fame!)
'The Ukrainian government installed by the coup has been recognized by the Western powers. It includes several members of explicitly Nazi organizations, including three leaders who have distinguished themselves by fabricating false images of violence and torture aimed to convince Western public opinion of the cruelty of the democratically elected president, Viktor Yanukovych. The Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine openly acknowledges his ties with Al-Qaeda.'
http://www.voltairenet.org/article182428.html
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 8:33 utc | 116
CC (112)
a) Putin did not call for restoration of law/Yanukovich and legitimized the coup
Weztern logic that regards external influence as standard.
The reality is simple: Putin isn't president of ukraine. So what should be his obligation or even just his right to demand anything in a matter that concerns purely internal issues of another country? None.
b) Yanukovich did not call upon the Ukrainian people to rally around him and thus legitimized the coup and did not uphold the law
I get your point but I'm afraid it's somewhat theoretical. And more importantly yanukovich did not legitimize the coup; he made it possible, yes, and probably he even made it easier by his gross lack of leadership qualities. But that's not legitimizing.
c) A majority of Ukrainian people would have rallied around Yanukovich because he is the president and they elected him
I doubt that.
Because - and that was a very smart if dirty move by the wezt - it started as legitimate demonstrations of honestly discontent people. And there *was* reason to dislike yanukovich, he *did* a lousy job. Furthermore the wezt smartly framed it as "zeu equals less corruption, more income and a better life", something even many yanukovich voters fell for.
For the average ukrainian there was no reason to suspect a coup or anything like that. That whole thing evolved gradually - so it seemd for the uninitiated; first there was a, still limited, level of rioting that could easily be mistaken as somewhat rude but "normal" for a strongly pissed off crowd. The level of violence increased rather slowly and care was taken to have the increases to coincide with alledged "police brutality" and/or politicians from weztern countries. When it finally reached a certain point it couldn't have been stopped anymore without considerable force which again would have incited discontent.
That's why it's so immensiley important to show *proof* to the people that they have been played and abused from the start and that the real plan was from the start to - if needed forcefully - establish a new government, namely those who seemed to be the heroes of the people.
Of course yanukovich was weak and dumb. And of course he lacked the guts to crush it down. And, of course it was extremely stupid to illoyally abuse the police and to send them out there like helpless and unarm marionettes.
I, for instance, would have rather early (when the riots began) a) collected evidence against the instigators in the wezt, b) arrested zamerican politicians and rudely forced them out of the country and c) crushed the riots with whatever level of force was needed.
But then, I wouldn't have had those demonstrations and riots in the first place because I wouldn't abuse a presidency for enrichment of myself and friends.
Once more, btw. Putin showed intelligence and elegance with his ngo financing laws. By this he simply denied alien forces the basis to try something like in ukraine.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 8:37 utc | 117
I guess I want an open-thread...
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/95904/World/Region/Israel-claims-to-hit-two-Hezbollah-fighters-on-Syr.aspx
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-were-it-not-for-the-french-hezbollah-would-all-be-syrians-fighting-on-their-own-governments-side-inside-their-own-country-9163596.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/03/219994/yarmouk-update-nusras-apparent.html
http://mideasti.blogspot.ca/2014/02/guest-post-prince-charles-sword-dance.html
and from a reader at SC
"Robert Ford who is retiring after 30 years of service at the state department gave a talk about Syria at Tufts University, the full article is published at CSM, here is a summary:
1. The future is bleak
2. Neither side can win, Syria is likely to become a collection of cantons
3. Not inviting Iran, hizbullah and other groups fighting in the war was a mistake (!!!)
4. Assad deserves most of the blame for the failure of Geneva but the opposition did not inspire or offer a formula that is acceptable to minorities. Alawites are ready to compromise but were not given a ship to jump to.
5. Assad should not run in June of 2014 but Ford admitted that clean elections are undoable in Syria today."
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 8:46 utc | 118
a) Yanukovich wrote Putin a letter... calling for an intervention... which Putin felt the need to show in UN all the while claiming that Yanukovich has no political future... am I the only one picking on some weirdness here..
In my view in the absence of the call to the Ukrainian people that letter is viewed as a result of Putin's pressure on the weakling...
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 8:47 utc | 119
Interesting op-ed, well worth a read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?hp&rref=opinion
Posted by: Johnboy | Mar 5 2014 8:48 utc | 120
Crusty details of Putin's talk yesterday
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/03/05/putin-harsh-on-kiev-but-open-to-dealings/
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 8:51 utc | 121
Ah.. and the palm of hypocrisy for Davutoglu speaking Kurdish at.... the "American University in Iraq" http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/9/95874/World/International/Turkeys-Davutoglu-cheered-for-speaking-Kurdish-in-.aspx
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 8:52 utc | 122
Thinking about it, I guess what Putin may be saying is that he does not give a hoot about Ukraine and Ukrainians. His only job is to protect the Russians. But even if this is so, why show the letter from Yanukovich? Mustn't he intervene to protect the Russians letter or no letter? Somehow somewhere Putin's apparatus failed to synchronize.
a) If your main motivation is to protect Russians, then what does it matter whether Yanukovich wrote you a letter
b) If you acted on the letter, then why did you undercut the very writer of it as "having no political future"?
Makes no sense...
By showing the letter, Russia appeared weak and reaching for an excuses to deflect criticism. Not a very promising development...
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 8:55 utc | 123
CC
You again and again mix up personal judgement with legal facts.
Putin presented a letter of the acting and duly elected president of the ukraine - and not of a nice and smart man or an asshole. Don't you get it? It's simply irrelevant.
Look at it the other way round.
Suppose a Russian soldier for whatever reason shot someone in ukraine, outside of the Russian base. Then one could Putin accuse to have performed an act of war against another country. If, however, Putin has a request from the duly elected and acting president of ukraine then he is O.K.
Simple as that and no matter whether that president is a nice guy or an asshole.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 9:00 utc | 124
CC (123)
End of discussion.
Your interest is evidently not to discuss, not even to accept the reality but simply to paint Putin in a way you like, no matter the facts.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 9:01 utc | 125
Mr P.,
Do you think ZUSA could actually unscramble the egg and go back to the EU agreement? Your talk of arresting American puppets is a non-starter, as how would they recruit scumbags in the future if they sold them out now? Besides, isn't ZUSA policy to wreck countries, the more, the merrier?
Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 5 2014 9:18 utc | 126
The letter DOES have a meaning in terms of "international laws" (at least when the US/UK are not involved). For this reason the BBC live thread pointed at the spot that the letter was purportedly dated 1st March while they pretend the extra Russian troops are in Crimea since 27/2. Putin's genial step was to probably send a few guys to be sure the white ribbons and friends do not manage to create the escalation that would have made a fully incontrolable fire -civil war- in Crimea, knowing that there is strictly no way to distinguish between a Russian and an Ukrainian of Russian descent...
This NYT op-ed is a good read, thanks.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 9:22 utc | 127
Qatar again... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26447914
"Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE withdraw ambassadors from Qatar amid accusations that it has meddled in internal affairs"
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 9:24 utc | 128
@117
I re-read portions of Putin's interview. He just needs to filter his language better. And better yet shut up about the internal politics of other countries:
Putin:
I think he [Yanukovich] has no political future - I told him that. As for playing a role in his fate, we did that purely from humanitarian reasons (Putin recounts a personal conversation without permission, patronizing)
[Yanukovich] practically gave up all his powers anyway. And I think he - and I told him this - had no chances of being re-elected (Putin needs to remember that he is not a private person, but a government official and anything he says about electebility of someone else in a different country could be construed as interference)
Journalist: Do you sympathise with him?
Putin: No, I have completely different feelings,
(meaning Yanukovich deserved his fate!)
Unbelievable....
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 9:27 utc | 129
I am not happy about what Putin said about Yanukovich in the interview.
End of discussion on my part too.
Posted by: CC | Mar 5 2014 9:28 utc | 130
Ukraine is not a banana republic!
The current crisis caused a brutal impact on millions of Ukrainians, though it was made not only in our country – the responsibility lies mostly on foreign governments. And the recent events in Ukraine just demonstrated convincing proof that the great powers – the USA, EU and Russia – see our country as a mere dependent colony – as a country that should be only a market for their goods and a source of cheap labor for their businesses.
The thoroughly hidden external dictatorship of the imperialist countries is being imposed with an overt cynicism. Actually the great powers see Ukraine as a kind of banana republic that should be governed by the clients of foreign capital under strict control of ambassadors-‘Gauleiters’. At present they brutally interfere into Ukrainian domestic affairs pushing us into the abyss of civil war. Some western politicians – baroness Catherine Ashton, Czech ‘euro-commissioner’ Stefan Fule, ex-president of Poland Alexander Kvasnevskiy, US right-wing senator John McCaine, Irish neoliberal Patrick Cox and a number of other high-rank officials that nearly weekly visit Ukraine in order to intimidate corrupted officials in Yanukovych government and to lend full support to the right-wing opposition.
The ambassadors of the leading EU countries and the USA don’t feel embarrassed to visit personally the bases of the ‘Right Sector’ so that to express their favor to these Nazi militants – that is to those who unleash street violence and torture innocent people in Ukraine. There is no doubt that they give not only full moral support (thus, legitimizing Nazism) but actually finance civil war in Ukraine.
The right-wing Ukrainian xenophobic politicians while all the way shouting about their patriotism actually sell our country out to imperialists for nothing. After all, the infamous and promoted by EU-officials economic association with EU will not bring Ukrainians Shengen visas they dream about. It will only open Ukrainian market to EU goods, therefore undermining the still remained domestic production. And IMF loan that they try to impose on Ukraine is accompanied with conditions that would lead to disastrous rise of the public utilities prices. It’s the essence of EU officials’ demands.
Thus, the union ‘Borotba’ starts national protest campaign against imperialist policy of the USA, EU and Russia. We’d like to show that Ukraine is not a ‘banana republic’ like the former colonies of the US that were de-facto ruled by Washington ambassadors plundering the resources of the countries. We are convinced that both the future of our country and its fate should be determined by its people but in no way by a gang of foreign politicians that try to turn Ukraine into ultra-right ghetto and cynically teach us how to live when economic crisis marches across the US/EU; when police of these countries brutally disperses social protests shooting at citizens.
That’s why we decided to occupy the territory near the US and other embassies in order to build a barricade of banana boxes that are being sold by western companies.
Ukraine is not a banana republic. We’ll decide the future of country by ourselves. We will not let them to turn the country into a battle-front of civil war.
Union ‘Borotba’ (‘The Struggle’)
Posted by: thomas | Mar 5 2014 9:39 utc | 131
More on Qatar (wouldn't be surprised if the news of djihadists being moved from northern syria to Ukraine with the help of the Turks happens to be true)
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/95916/World/Region/BREAKING-Saudi-Arabia,-UAE-and-Bahrain-recall-amba.aspx
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/0/94949/World/0/Libya-arrests-six-Qataris-at-Benghazi-airport-with.aspx
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 9:58 utc | 133
"Fucks"-News citing a ZIO-Gangster ( and I wish it's true ) :
'Iran, Russia working together to launch cyber attacks, former lawmaker claims'
...Iran has boosted its cyber capabilities in a “surprisingly” short amount of time and possesses the ability to launch successful cyber attacks on American financial markets and its infrastructure, former Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., told a panel of lawmakers on Tuesday....
Posted by: Sufi | Mar 5 2014 10:11 utc | 134
All this excitement about a failed hostile takeover attempt :-))
Definition of 'Hostile Takeover'The acquisition of one company (called the target company) by another (called the acquirer) that is accomplished not by coming to an agreement with the target company's management, but by going directly to the company's shareholders or fighting to replace management in order to get the acquisition approved. A hostile takeover can be accomplished through either a tender offer or a proxy fight.
Everybody calm down. US/EU/Russia will continue their "security cooperation".
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5 2014 10:14 utc | 135
In the western 'PainSStream' this was shown (I saw it on state-owned , MI6 controlled and Saville infested BBC )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms3y3lZqle0&feature=youtu.be
however NOT this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXdGljdcRKQ&feature=youtu.be
Posted by: Sufi | Mar 5 2014 10:27 utc | 136
Jim W. Dean , right on on track as usual :
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/03/03/353055/west-baits-putin-but-he-doesnt-bite/
.....The farce in all this is if the situation were reversed the West would be doing exactly what Putin and the Russian parliament are doing. They are sending a strong message that they clearly are not going to be intimidated by 'isolation' threats as they watch foreign aggression and subversion taking over a former Soviet state. So even though the Olympics are over, the West gets the Gold Medal for hypocrisy on this one.
The media fraud examples are almost too many to mention, but I have to cover my favorite. When the Russians sent a few hundred Special Forces troops into the Black Sea base, provided for under their agreement with Ukraine, and notified them, this was spun out to the media as an 'invasion.' So one of the first major acts of the new Ukrainian coup government was to blatantly lie to the whole world, giving us a clue as to what we can expect from them in the future.....
Posted by: Sufi | Mar 5 2014 10:44 utc | 137
Yesterday's BBC thread is an anthology. They need to express what they've been taught at Oxford once in a while and rant against the Reds.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26428296
Even aljazeera did its little part :
21:23: Al-Jazeera's Nick Schifrin has been caught up in the thick of confrontations between Ukrainian soldiers and a pro-Russian crowd in the Crimean city of Yevpatoria. He writes on his Twitter account that some 150 people stopped his car and prevented them from filming: "Crowd of 150+ stopped our car, wouldn't let us leave. At one point threatened to flip the van. Demanded to see video we filmed in base."
21:24: Nick Schifrin, Al-Jazeera tweets: Members of crowd watched video, seemed placated. Convinced rest to let us go. But then we realized one of our tires had been slashed.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 10:50 utc | 138
BTW for the award of "worse journalism ever", the Gulf is still far ahead. Read this one, it is competing for gold medal
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/world/2014/02/23/Saudi-Arabia-offers-U-S-solutions-over-Syria.html
(and written by a kaafir, but most certainly edited)
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 10:52 utc | 139
not the russian military:ChristianaRaht @ChristianaRaht Mar 2
Local self-defense unit surround Ukrainian military base in Simferopol after arriving on dozens of military trucks http://bit.ly/NJP736
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 10:56 utc | 140
sample of ukraine 'media':
Ukraine Reporter @StateOfUkraine 7h
Ex- #Berkut helps #Russian invaders to terrorize #Ukrainian military base in Yevpatoria #Crimea http://censor.net.ua/n274199 #euromaidan #ukraine
===================
Ukraine Reporter
@StateOfUkraine
Reporting and translating news from Ukraine without the propaganda
Ukraine, US, Russia .................without the propaganda,..right!
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:11 utc | 141
@117
I re-read portions of Putin's interview. He just needs to filter his language better. And better yet shut up about the internal politics of other countries:
.......
Posted by: CC | Mar 5, 2014 4:27:37 AM | 129
take your own advice
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:12 utc | 142
What is the Crimean fog supposed to dissimulate? A failed attempt to place ships near the Bosphorus?
http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/syrian-jets-bomb-east-lebanon
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 11:13 utc | 143
Posted by: thomas | Mar 5, 2014 4:39:55 AM | 131
no bananas!
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:18 utc | 145
Posted by: CC | Mar 5, 2014 4:27:37 AM | 129
snigger...'interference'....snigger
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:19 utc | 146
The full transcript in English of Putin's press conference yesterday about Ukraine is at http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6763 . I consider it mandatory reading for anybody who wants understand the Ukraine situation. In the bit from Putin he rules out the possibility of Crimea joining Russia and he adds that Russia does not encourage the Crimeans to create an independent State:
QUESTION: How do you see the future of Crimea? Do you consider the possibility of it joining Russia?VLADIMIR PUTIN: No, we do not. Generally, I believe that only residents of a given country who have the freedom of will and are in complete safety can and should determine their future. If this right was granted to the Albanians in Kosovo, if this was made possible in many different parts of the world, then nobody has ruled out the right of nations to self-determination, which, as far as I know, is fixed by several UN documents. However, we will in no way provoke any such decision and will not breed such sentiments. I would like to stress that I believe only the people living in a given territory have the right to determine their own future.
QUESTION: Mr President, if Crimea holds a referendum and the people there vote to secede from Ukraine, that is, if the majority of the region’s residents vote for secession, would you support it?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: You can never use the conditional mood in politics. I will stick to that rule. http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6763
more photo fiddling
Russian Market @russian_market 13h
Dear CNN,
This photo was taken inside of Russia and not in Ukraine as your screaming TV anchor claims.
Relax! pic.twitter.com/nhcP0dppw1
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:33 utc | 148
Russian Market @russian_market 24h
PUTIN: YOU CAN BUY RUSSIAN UNIFORMS IN ANY SHOP; THERE WERE SELF-DEFENSE TEAMS IN CRIMEA pic.twitter.com/mImvCALP1Z
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:37 utc | 149
It seems that the MSM have a duty in educating the brainwashed masses to the fact that only The White Man is worth bringing up in the news. Just as some dumb Syrians have been tricked into believing that the UN would intervene to help them (though they do not move a finger for the Palestinians), we are supposed to cry on Ukraine's 100 martyrs with Kerry in Kiev yesterday.
But what about the hundreds of thousands in South Sudan? South Sudan is another "US/UN" engineered success where the "freedom of self-determination" and "democracy building" were hailed by everyone from Hollywood to al Jazeera. But no journalist there, and no live blog, to report on the recent fightings and dirty civil war.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 11:43 utc | 150
@144
Loved the "stopped HIS car" and "didn't let THEM film"...
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 11:46 utc | 151
US f*** the EU or "we break it, you pay for it"
11:36: The European Commission's aid package to Ukraine will consist of 1.6bn euros in loans and 1.4bn euros in grants from the EU, in addition to 3bn euros in fresh credit from the European Investment Bank, AP reports Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso as saying. (bbc live blog)
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 11:50 utc | 152
I would love a South Sudan thread. Sorry for monopolizing... Must stop procrastinating.
http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article42594
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2013/pr13358.htm
http://www.ecosonline.org/news/2012/20120729_Why_GoS_should_accept_RSS_petroleum_offer/
http://www.economist.com/node/18929459
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/31/uk-aid-south-sudan-refugees
http://www.lse.co.uk/AllNews.asp?code=7652ydoe&headline=Onethird_of_EUs_2014_humanitarian_aid_budget_already_spent
Conclusion: better join the spiral tribe than pay taxes to these thugs!
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 11:58 utc | 153
Russian Market @russian_market 2h
Saakashvili says that Putin will invade Estonia after Crimea...
- Bloomberg TV please turn this guy off...
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
Russian Market @russian_market 2h
Saakashvili says on Bloomberg TV that Russia is invading Crimea because.. because there is gas in Crimea...
- Geez... what drugs is he on?
============
NOTE: Saakashvili knows all about invading
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 11:59 utc | 154
Nikolaus von Twickel @niktwick 5m
Kiev diplomat tells Interfax that 300 mainly American "soldiers of fortune" arrived in Ukraine!
http://russian.rt.com/article/23657 (RU)
#propagandawars
Posted by: brian | Mar 5 2014 12:33 utc | 155
brian
What could you expect from Saakashvili the tie eater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyNocJFUloA
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5 2014 12:40 utc | 156
Breaking on RT: Snipers shooting at people in Kiev hired by Maidan activitsts - leaked EU officials talks.
Posted by: guest77 | Mar 5 2014 12:44 utc | 157
Leaked phone call btween Ashton and estonian FM about Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8#t=211
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5 2014 12:46 utc | 158
158) yes was about to post the same - the Estonian Foreign Minister on the phone to Catherine Ashton explaining that it is becoming clearer and clearer that the snipers were hired not by Yanukovich but by somebody from the "new coalition".
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5 2014 13:43 utc | 159
In competition for best lie of the day
13:38: Tim Willcox, BBC News in Kiev
tweets:UN Dep Sec Gen Jan Eliasson on yesterday's confrontation in Crimea 'I thought it was a Sarajevo moment'
(bbc live thread)
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5 2014 14:02 utc | 160
158) yes was about to post the same - the Estonian Foreign Minister on the phone to Catherine Ashton explaining that it is becoming clearer and clearer that the snipers were hired not by Yanukovich but by somebody from the "new coalition".
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5, 2014 8:43:53 AM | 159
since it is essentially a NATO Coup, the Neo-Nazis are essentially doing the bidding of NATO, then the Snipers can be labelled NATO Snipers in my opinion ;-)
Posted by: brb | Mar 5 2014 14:09 utc | 161
Since this recording of ashton is more likely to have come from Russian intercepts and passed off as coming from Ukrainian sources, it certainly looks like a confirmation of the "prediction" somebody made a few days ago when he said in a conversation about the identity of the snipers that : "Russia will know"
Certainly looks like Russia knows it was the NATO side that arranged those Snipers
Posted by: brb | Mar 5 2014 14:18 utc | 162
@ Mina thanks for the South Sudan thread. I agree that the black out on the civil war in South Sudan is something worth reflecting on in contrast to the hyper ventilation over 'not a single bullet shot yet' Ukrainian fascist vs Russian Federation standoff.
Posted by: thirsty | Mar 5 2014 14:56 utc | 163
About the Abby Martin “speaking out” video linked at no. 44. and subsequent comments.
RT-America is a US branch of a global tv and you-tube empire.
Based in Washington, with studios in many places in the US. It is the second most watched foreign news service in the US, after the BBC.
wiki (didn’t read it thru but couldn’t find better)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)
This speech was scripted (by her perhaps, but certainly with help) and surely planned and agreed on before-hand. She is just doing her job, of course she won’t be fired. RT is smart enough to understand that doses of supposed sincerity and breaking the rules surprise ppl in the frozen media landscape. Don’t be fooled, it is just a new twist in “Reality TV”.. Had it been unscripted it would never have aired, not for 3 seconds.
She is right about the Ukranians being the losers. An easy, if legit, ploy.
Posted by: Noirette | Mar 5 2014 15:33 utc | 164
@164: Even if it is a ploy, why is it a ploy that the corporate media never use? Even Goebbels recognized that, if propaganda is to be effective, it cannot all be uniform.
Posted by: lysias | Mar 5 2014 16:11 utc | 165
Ukrainian PM Yatsenyuk invited to NATO on March 6:
The NATO Council and Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will have a meeting with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk at NATO headquarters in Brussels on Thursday, NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu said.
They aren't wasting any time, are they?
Posted by: lysias | Mar 5 2014 16:56 utc | 166
Much too late - The White House on the unhinged Putin: Ukraine crisis: Vladimir Putin is not 'unhinged', White House says
President Barack Obama does not see Vladimir Putin as "unhinged" and believes the Russian leader can be coaxed into a deal to withdraw troops and end the Ukrainian crisis, the White House said last night.The second part of the sentence tells me that Obama is unhinged.
Mr Obama and the German chancellor spoke for more than an hour on Tuesday about a diplomatic solution to end the most serious confrontation with Russia in Europe since the end of the Cold War.The terms of the offer would allow Russia to keep 11,000 troops in Crimea as long as they returned to their barracks, a White House official said.
Would ALLOW Russia? The people in the White House must be crazy if they think they can ALLOW Russia anything.
167) It is adding insult to injury basically making it worse :-))
You do not "coax" an adult person.
They are giving him the mad dictator treatment for some reason.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5 2014 18:20 utc | 168
b
Laughable, US have what, 650 bases on this globe and they try to decide how russian bases should look like!?
it is during these times one really see what a psycho obama really is.
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5 2014 18:49 utc | 169
b
Absolutely! Even funnier, what they would allow to Russia would be less than 50% of what Russia already is allowed by the legal treaty between ukraine and Russia.
So, *obviously* obama and his friends from the zato mental asylum are hopeless patients.
On another note: *Obviously* someone (CC) stating on one and the same page of MoA that a) Putin should tell ukraine what to do or not and b) Putin has no right whatsoever to tell ukraine what to do or not ... can not be taken seriously and is only about painting Putin bad, possibly being a payed online puppet.
Concerning all those "Russia will be forced to ...", and "Putin, in negotiations will have to ..." wet dreams - forget it. Putin has all bases covered and already has half of ukraine, probably more, on his side and/or beginning to understand what a clusterfuck they have been abused for. Also, although Kremlin in a rather typical tactical move put a question mark behind it, it has been made known that Russia also has a rather large "kill-the-zusa$ gun" ready to fire and, of course Russias military is ready.
Again, just consider how poorly zusa/zato performed against Iraq; how could anyone think zato might have any realistic survival rate against Russia?
I also think that the very recent Russian history is underestimated or even forgotten. That is *extremely* important concerning the zusa$-gun.
The misery Russia had to go through, with children living in the canals in the worst times, the hardships Russia experienced, the building the country up from almost nothing ... the fact that Russia did not earn money but actually had to *pay* for their own oil - all that is due to the zamerican "advisors" put into Russias ministeries and writing laws to their liking after jelzin (may he rot suffer in the worst part of hell for a billion years!) the ever drunken whore traitor let the zamerican scum in.
So, Putin knows, Russia knows, the soldiers know what they fight for (beloved Russia and they can be proud of her!) and what to fight against and rest assured, the Russian troups are very well prepared and motivated. And they know first-hand what a hell expects anyone falling victim to zusa.
And I'm very glad - not in the meaning of self-importance "see how smart I am", no, but in the meaning of "how good for ukrainians and for Russians!" - that I was about right so far in my prognosis. Hurray! Russia *proves* to the ukrainians that this never was about democracy or about their complaints, interests, and needs but pure and simple an illegal, dirty war by zusa/zeu against their country.
And once more Putin and Russia have shown quality and real strength and intelligence and they won. And once more zusa is looking bad and dirty and is losing; a war, their reputation, respect.
Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5 2014 19:26 utc | 170
Must be a virus ...
A second female host of RT has been bitching and publicly - and pathetically - announcing her departure.
One of her phrases started with "I'm proud to be an american".
No further questions your honour. Those words are enough to put the "braindead, cheap zio-zusa whore" on her file.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 6 2014 2:20 utc | 171
@165: Even if it is a ploy, why is it a ploy that the corporate media never use? Even Goebbels recognized that, if propaganda is to be effective, it cannot all be uniform. - lysias @ 165.
Because the US moving image MSM are gripped in both group-think and subservience to their masters.
They have lost the plot, and can’t be what is called: creative, different, adventurous, move inches away from the MSM spiel.
Plus, because there is a an existing varied opposition which has wide media reach (e.g. Alex Jones or sites like rense and the like) which they can’t acknowledge or tackle and can only condemn as ‘conspiracy theorists’, thus polarising against the competition, trying to keep ratings etc.
A last reason is surely that many of those hired are young, subservient, there for the pay check, and have no power, and no knowledge concerning propaganda. They just accept the corporate line, and if they don’t, quit quietly, while thousands jockey for entry to the vacated plum jobs.
Posted by: Noirette | Mar 6 2014 15:42 utc | 172
@ anon @ 24
Maybe "Pussy Riot" is writing THIER press releases... "In America, PUSSY RIOT writes YOUR press release"
Posted by: Solerso | Mar 15 2014 21:39 utc | 173
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia is sending a ripple effect through out Eastern Europe. With the prospects now for possible cold war starting all over again investors brace for sanctions against Russia. And with the already falling economy of the Ukraine, investors and business are bailing out as fast as they can.
During the next few years, the Ukraine economy will be pushed to its limits. Currently, the Ukraine desperately needs 30 billion in loans to survive, and with ousted former president Viktor Yanukovich having already pulled the country out from the European Union, and the new government wanting nothing to do with Russia, the government will be in dire straits.
The US State department has issued a travel warning urging Americans not to travel to the Ukraine. Tourism is a huge part of Ukraine economy. with hotels, airlines and restaurants depending on tourism. As these businesses cut back, the ripple effect in cities like Kiev, Odessa and Yalta will have devastating consequences on the economy. Just as when the housing market died in the US, the effects were felt world wide. Not only will Ukraine's economy continue to decline, but most of Western Europe's fragile economy will also feel the effects.
One industry that seems to thrive on the situation is the foreign bride market, A Foreign Affair operates four office in the Ukraine. Kenneth Agee the marketing director says, "In the last few weeks we have seen the biggest surge ever on women signing up. Not only have we seen the biggest surge, but we have seen the highest quality of women signing up; doctors, engineers, even some of Ukraine's most beautiful models, With the possibility of war looming over the horizon, American men are looking very desirable." A Foreign Affair 's new member Irina of Kiev says, "America is stable, American men have very good family values. These are important to Ukraine women; we want a good environment to raise our families. With Russian tanks rolling down our streets, I do not see a bright future here for starting a family.
The future does not look good for the Ukraine. Russia has no intention of letting Ukraine have complete independence. Most western Ukrainians have had a strong dislike for Russia for many generations, and will do what ever it takes to resist Russian influence or occupation. This being said, the country will have a long battle and many lines drawn in the sand, from serious economic sanctions to full out war. At this time, it looks like this struggle could go on for a decade or more.
Posted by: 1stworldview | Mar 16 2014 8:05 utc | 174
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia is sending a ripple effect through out Eastern Europe. With the prospects now for possible cold war starting all over again investors brace for sanctions against Russia. And with the already falling economy of the Ukraine, investors and business are bailing out as fast as they can.
During the next few years, the Ukraine economy will be pushed to its limits. Currently, the Ukraine desperately needs 30 billion in loans to survive, and with ousted former president Viktor Yanukovich having already pulled the country out from the European Union, and the new government wanting nothing to do with Russia, the government will be in dire straits.
The US State department has issued a travel warning urging Americans not to travel to the Ukraine. Tourism is a huge part of Ukraine economy. with hotels, airlines and restaurants depending on tourism. As these businesses cut back, the ripple effect in cities like Kiev, Odessa and Yalta will have devastating consequences on the economy. Just as when the housing market died in the US, the effects were felt world wide. Not only will Ukraine's economy continue to decline, but most of Western Europe's fragile economy will also feel the effects.
One industry that seems to thrive on the situation is the foreign bride market, A Foreign Affair operates four office in the Ukraine. Kenneth Agee the marketing director says, "In the last few weeks we have seen the biggest surge ever on women signing up. Not only have we seen the biggest surge, but we have seen the highest quality of women signing up; doctors, engineers, even some of Ukraine's most beautiful models, With the possibility of war looming over the horizon, American men are looking very desirable." A Foreign Affair 's new member Irina of Kiev says, "America is stable, American men have very good family values. These are important to Ukraine women; we want a good environment to raise our families. With Russian tanks rolling down our streets, I do not see a bright future here for starting a family.
The future does not look good for the Ukraine. Russia has no intention of letting Ukraine have complete independence. Most western Ukrainians have had a strong dislike for Russia for many generations, and will do what ever it takes to resist Russian influence or occupation. This being said, the country will have a long battle and many lines drawn in the sand, from serious economic sanctions to full out war. At this time, it looks like this struggle could go on for a decade or more.
Posted by: 1stworldview | Mar 17 2014 7:11 utc | 175
The comments to this entry are closed.
Mr. Pragma has been on a roll today. Si señor, if Putin is the bold and daring man of action I think he is. He will indeed use the aces up his sleeve. Yanucovich in Russia is worthless, he can be used to much, much greater effect in Crimea, Ucrania!!!
If He is there, than the Nazis in Kiev will tremble for they believed him done for. It will be return of the king, in Yanukovich's case return of the dirtbag, but you get my drift. "Yats" & "Klitch", would really be surprised.
Good posts Mr. Pragma.
Posted by: Fernando | Mar 5 2014 5:57 utc | 101