Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 12, 2014

Open Thread 2014-05

News & views ...

Posted by b on March 12, 2014 at 19:02 UTC | Permalink

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Australia, a dark horse yet still in contention for "Most Fascist Society of the Year 2014" - or the Maidan Award - delivers with their "move on" law which passed recently:

The government's Summary Offences Bill will probably pass the upper house by Thursday, extending police powers to move protesters who block access to buildings or cause others to ''have a reasonable fear of violence''. Anyone who ignores a ''move-on'' order could be arrested and face a $720 fine.

Legal, community and civil rights groups have raised serious concerns about the laws, which will also let police ask a court for exclusion orders banning a person from a public space for up to 12 months - with those breaching a ban facing up to two years in jail.

Several critics said the laws were reminiscent of those brought in by former Queensland premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen to quash opposition.
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Under the changes move-on orders can also be issued to people who police believe have committed an offence in a public place within the previous 12 hours.

Australian Human Rights Commissioner Tim Wilson said the laws were ''excessive'' because they gave police the power to fine people whom they suspected of a possible offence.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 12 2014 19:23 utc | 1

Good discussions on all the threads of late. I find much of interest and worth both from b's headlines and then commentary. Thanks b, for keeping the trolls trash out of the bar.

Many thanks to all.

Posted by: juannie | Mar 12 2014 19:25 utc | 2

Repost - if you like to include links in the "a href" format there is a Firefox extension called "Easy Copy" that facilitates that (Ctrl+Shift+Y to copy).

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 19:32 utc | 3

@1
Interesting but I'm still putting my money on Mr Abe's government in Japan. See Lawrence Repeta's atticle at http://japanfocus.org/home

Posted by: bevin | Mar 12 2014 19:49 utc | 4

this is a repost from a different thread that i believe needs to be discussed. kathilea points out some differences as well, but i want to repost this as i think it is very relevant.

"I haven't seen mentioned what I consider America's greatest hypocrisy in this crisis. That is: what did the US do when ITS naval base in Bahrain was threatened in 2011? The oppressed and majority Shia citizens of Bahrain thought it was their turn for an Arab Spring. Their peaceful demonstrations were crushed, martial law declared, and Saudi military entered in force. All this was green lighted by the US. If Shias allied to Iran had taken over, then the US Fifth Fleet would have been kicked out. Is this analogous to the current Crimea situation? I think it is.

Posted by: Cynthia | Mar 12, 2014 1:59:24 PM | 98"

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2014 19:59 utc | 6

Words fail me, how blatant is that?

Bank of England Drops a Bombshell on Parliament: It Shredded Its Crisis Era Records


The bombshell came in the following exchange between the Chair of the Treasury Select Committee, Andrew Tyrie, and a very frightened appearing Paul Fisher, the Executive Director of Markets at the BOE, who has served in that position since 2009. Apparently neither Parliament nor the public knew prior to this exchange that the records of the pre-crisis year of 2007, the financial collapse in 2008, and the monetary policy maneuvers in subsequent years to prevent another Great Depression had been destroyed in one of the world’s most important financial centers; not to mention the fact that critical recordings potentially relevant to the Foreign Exchange probe are also gone.

Obviously the commoners do not need to know.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 20:04 utc | 7

Coming Soon?

"Norman Quijano, the mayor of San Salvador and candidate for the right-wing Nationalist Republican Alliance (ARENA) party incited a crowd on Sunday night to not “allow this victory to be stolen from us like it was in Venezuela.” He declared that ARENA was “prepared for war” and called on the international community and the Salvadoran armed forced to “defend the country’s democracy” in the face of the supposed fraud carried out against them...."

Posted by: bevin | Mar 12 2014 20:12 utc | 8

The hypocrisy does not stop there: Ukraine: How to Hide a Nazi Army


Arseniy Yatsenyuk would go as far as stating - when his views regarding homosexual marriage were labelled “conservative” – that:
”I do not agree. If a man has normal views, then you label him a conservative, but those who use drugs or promote sodomy – you label them a progressive person. All of these are perversions.”

Remember western fierce anti-Russian campaign during Sochi bashing alleged anti-gay policies? Where are those people now?

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 20:14 utc | 9

@5

Ah yes, the Japanese "state secrets" law, I had almost forgotten. That is guaranteed to catch the attention of our judges this year in a race that is just chock full of quality entrants. I would love to introduce our judges but they have declined to come forward and identify themselves. Their R.S.V.P. said something about "there being no need for us to know anything", "pissant peons are lucky we're not shoving a red hot poker up their asses while we rape their" blah blah blah "maybe next year", "hope everyone has a great time", "cheers". Folks, don't forget to register your vote for choice of the actual "Iron Maidan" Award. Will it depict a

1) boot stomping on someone's neck
2) lightning bolt shooting out of John McCain's ass
3) naked Victoria Nuland pulling a freedom cake out of her oven
4) American flag?

You decide (disclaimer: your decisions will be monitored and changed if need be by our judges ) at www.fascistfreedomsociety.org/awards/ or at twitter @ffs #democracy#USAID#NED#freedom#didIsaydemocracy#free

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 12 2014 20:19 utc | 10

Funny how Bloomberg is again deceitfully promoting the portrayal of Gen. Dempsey (and indirectly Obama) as a warmonger and some fools, like ZeroHedge, fall for that. Or maybe fear mongering is that site's business model too?

Chairman Of Joint Chiefs: US Ready For "Military Response" In Ukraine

There is absolutely nothing neither new nor threatening in Dempsey's statements, just re-iteration of the status quo.


Different take on Dempsey: Second Facebook Town Hall with General Martin E. Dempsey

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 20:35 utc | 11

some fools, like ZeroHedge, fall for that. Or maybe fear mongering is that site's business model too?

Bingo - that is exact what ZeroHedge have been doing since this thing started.

Posted by: brb | Mar 12 2014 20:44 utc | 12

@#10

It was Alexander Turchinov from Yulia Tomyshenko's party who said that;
http://www.amnesty.be/doc/IMG/pdf/doc_18433.pdf

On 22 August 2007 Alexander Turchinov, of the Block of Julia Timoshenko, replied to the accusation that his stance on same sex marriage is typically conservative: "I do not agree. If a man has normal views, then you label him a conservative, but those who use drugs or
promote sodomy you label them a progressive person. All of these are perversions

Posted by: Yul | Mar 12 2014 21:02 utc | 13

More goodies from the communication intercepts department, I wonder if it develops into a major story with some sort of confirmation:

Hacked Email from U.S. Army Attache in Ukraine - For False Flags to occur so U.S. can take military action against Russia

Email from Jason Gresh (Assistant Army Attaché U.S. Embassy, Kyiv...) to Igor:


Events are moving rapidly in Crimea. Our friends in Washington expect more decisive actions from your network.
I think it’s time to implement the plan we discussed lately. Your job is to cause some problems to the transport hubs in the south-east in order to frame-up the neighbor.
It will create favorable conditions for Pentagon and the Company to act.
Do not waste time, my friend.
Respectfully,
JP

Email CCed to Igor from Vasyl (Ukraine official):

Oleg , an urgent need poshumity on behalf of Russians at the airport in Melitopol. This should be done by March 15 . Sam understands why.
First of all you must contact Pasha Tarasenko. You must know him , he is a local Liberty and has a theme.
Before you arrive 10-12 boys from the Centre. Top fighters Trident . Chief Mike there , you should know it too . Details will know him. We need people to meet and provide everything you need.
Proceed with caution. Speak only Russian. 25 team is executing combat missions , so do not do them much damage to aircraft . There is a lot of scrap metal, with it you can do anything . Damaged aircraft you specify. It is essential that all was as real attack neighbor's Special Forces. But without corpses.
Give me again your account. The money will come in time, do not worry.
See the appendix . This is an example of action. Decisions are made in person.

Email to Vasyl from Igor (Chief, General Staff, Armed Forces of Ukraine):

Basil , you must quickly carry out proactive in Melitopol. There's 25 aviation brigade . Must zamaraty our sworn friends and good neighbors. I think you understand me.
Just proceed carefully and cautiously. 25 brigade combat mission out , so do not do them much damage to aircraft . There is already damaged aircraft , that He can do everything. Yihny board numbers you give. Remember , you need everything to be as real attack of the Russian Special Forces.
Brigade commander there is a reasonable man . Details of know he will not, but in extreme cases it can turn to. We did come.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 21:08 utc | 14

Hello all, you all know me from my blog.

Love Moon of Alabama, even when I disagree with it (and I disagree plenty insofar as Crimea is concerned; Putin and the Russians are trying to re-create the USSR, and annexing Ukraine is a big part of that agenda. It has nothing to do with “stopping the fascists in Ukraine”, which is just an excuse for a good old fashioned land-grab.)

I'm shamelessly peddling my new novel, “A Secret History of The American Crash”

https://liraspg.com/a-secret-history-of-the-american-crash/

I hope you all go check it out—there's a free 80-page sampler, if you're interested.

Cheers,

GL

Posted by: Gonzalo Lira | Mar 12 2014 21:33 utc | 15

But wait! We have a winner!!!!

The "Iron Maidan" for 2014 - once again - goes to the apartheid, genocidal pariah state of Israel as the FM has called for a reoccupation of Gaza Strip!!

Once again, the starving, killing, imprisoning, maiming, beating and stealing of land from the rightful Palestinian landowners has proven just too much for the other fascist Western societies to match.

Israel: Queen of the Fascist Ball!!!

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 12 2014 21:36 utc | 16

@16
" Putin and the Russians are trying to re-create the USSR, and annexing Ukraine is a big part of that agenda. It has nothing to do with “stopping the fascists in Ukraine”, which is just an excuse for a good old fashioned land-grab.).."

You certainly have a real talent for fictional invention but you must remember not to strain your readers' credulity too far.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 12 2014 21:40 utc | 17

Yul 14 You're right, that's weird that Tony made such mistake.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 12 2014 22:21 utc | 18

@18 - maybe @16 is hoping for strong usa/euro sales, lol...

Posted by: james | Mar 12 2014 22:24 utc | 19

I caught a bit of Obama's message to Putin today on local WNYC (PBS program or local, not sure).

Obama sounds just like BushBoy and Cheney. Uses "what Russia/Putin needs to do" wording to say do what we want or we'll sanction the hell out of your financial system and economy. Next thing he'll come up with is that everything is on the table to threaten military...what?

And, of course, no realization that allowing coups to stand is highly disruptive to international relations.

The Deep State in the US, or whatever it calls itself, seems to have Obama completely under its thumb.

Posted by: jawbone | Mar 12 2014 22:32 utc | 20

Ukrainian Jewish head raps Israeli reticence on Crimea crisis

(Reuters) - A Ukrainian Jewish leader opposed to the Russian takeover of Crimea failed to drum up support this week from Israel, which is sitting out the crisis pitting its U.S. ally against Moscow.

Edward Dolinsky, head of the Ukrainian Jewish Committee, made a lobbying trip to Jerusalem with influential Ukrainian Jewish lawmaker Alexander Feldman. They were not received by officials from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government.

I guess there are enough people from the former USSR in the Israeli state apparatus for the Israeli government to know how this is going to end.

Now if only the dog would catch up with the tail, things would be a lot calmer.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 12 2014 22:38 utc | 21

#15

The "Assistant Army Attache" whose email was hacked, Jason P Gresh, is married to the Deputy Economic Counselor in the US embassy in Kiev. Talk about a partnership.

Elizabeth Horst currently serves as the Deputy Economic Counselor at Embassy Kyiv, Ukraine. Most recently, as the State Department’s Afghanistan Training Coordinator in Stability Operations, Elizabeth led the team training more than 1200 civilians for tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. She previously served as the Senior State Department representative at the U.S. PRT in Zabul province, Afghanistan (2008-2009), where she worked on an interagency team focused on governance, security and reconstruction. She was the point of contact for governance issues for five different military units in the province. She received a State Department Superior Honor Award and Department of Defense award for Outstanding Civilian Service for her efforts to bolster local Afghan institutions and combat corruption.
Entering the Foreign Service in 2001, she served her first tour as the political and consular officer in Lahore, Pakistan (2001-2003). Following a year at the State Department Operations Center in Washington, D.C., she studied Russian to serve as head of the political and economic section in Dushanbe, Tajikistan (2005-2007) and then Deputy Press Attache at U.S. Embassy Moscow (2007-2008), including a two-month stint as acting Embassy spokesperson during the 2008 Russian-Georgia conflict. Prior to the joining the Foreign Service, she worked as a Peace Corps volunteer in Niger, West Africa. She earned a B.A. from the University of Kansas and an M.A. from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. A native Minnesotan, she speaks German, French, Russian and Hausa. She is married to a U.S. Army Foreign Area Officer, Major Jason P. Gresh.

This is one of the faces of the Ambitious Young American. The other are the mercenaries he employs. With a certain glee and self-righteous fervor, of course. Note the wife who's an environmental policy type. How precious. Helps them sleep at night in their posh Kiev apartment I'm sure.

If this is a legit leak and there is one honest man left in the Ukranian parliament, he needs to stand up and kick every last person out of that US embassy and make them take their rats and their fleas with them.

Posted by: L Bean | Mar 12 2014 22:48 utc | 22

@21 I doubt if he'll fall for the old Red Line trick again.

Posted by: dh | Mar 12 2014 22:51 utc | 23

german spiegel link

Sorry, only a german link. In short: russia invites several european right-wing parties, among them front national and fpö (austrian nationalists party) for observing the crimean referendum.
Unfortunately, the article says nothing about who else got invited.
Nevertheless, this, again, is a smart move! The way I see it, these parties, who like to pose as an "oppostion" to the european political establishment have to show how much "opposition" they really are and whether they can take it to accept a russian invitation (to a somewhat neutral mission).
My first thought: nah, they're all really part of the esatbalishment, just waiting for their turn. Give the choice, they'll cuddle up to the US/EU power elites that they want to be part of.
Second thought: some, maybe even many members realize that russia, no matter what happens in ukraine, will be a european power and probably gaining influence in europe, even if they have to take a momentary setback in ukraine. Much more if they can turn this "ukraine crisis" into a win. So there will be a tendency to reach out to russia and make friends for the future.
This might indeed crack up the homogenous political landscape, at least a little.
Maybe I'm overestimating this, but as I see it now, a very smart move, once again.

Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 12 2014 23:33 utc | 24

From the White House, and thoroughly vomit-inducing: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/12/1284235/-Remarks-by-President-Obama-and-Ukraine-Prime-Minister-Yatsenyuk-after-bilateral-meeting

Posted by: Nora | Mar 12 2014 23:34 utc | 25

On Ukraine, Yatsenyuk Admits IMF Is "Not the Sweet Candy," Cites Tatars
http://www.innercitypress.com/ukraine1yatsenyukdc031214.html
"Yatsenyuk said he knows the International Monetary Fund program is "not the sweet candy." Inner City Press covers the IMF and can only say: ask Greece."

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 12 2014 23:47 utc | 26

25) The position of Europe's right wing populist parties eg front national is interesting. Ukraine's Svoboda does not like it.

This here is Austria's FPÖ complaining about EU paying for Ukraine.

I guess for them it is a way to a) disassociate themselves from fascism, move to the center where the votes are, b) they know that European mainstream politicians go against mainstream opinion with their position on Ukraine.

So Russia sides with right wing populists in Europe whilst Europe sides with right wing fascists in Ukraine.

I guess this is postmodern cold war now.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 13 2014 0:43 utc | 27

I don't think it should be surprising that right-wing Austrians are not eager to help the geographical region currently known as the Ukraine, whether its government is legitimate or not.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 13 2014 1:30 utc | 28

@ 28 somebody,

Except, of course, Russia has not engineered a coup using neo-fascists, whereas the US/EU has. That's kind of an important difference.

Posted by: Lysander | Mar 13 2014 1:50 utc | 29

#25, #28,

Sorry, I have no French, and the link concerning the FPÖ is broken, so my comment is made in ignorance of the reactions of these parties.

Very interesting. These European right-wing parties espouse nationalist sentiments by and large, and the Russians here are subtly reminding them that they, too, are nationalists. They believe in the right of nations to not only exist, but to adopt policies that serve to maintain their unique status, and to preserve their sovereignty.

This is rather unlike the nature of the E.U., an entity that is neither fish nor fowl: it lacks a unified, popularly-elected executive, having merely a spurious European Parliament; an powerful rule-making bureaucracy not fully answerable to that Parliament, and certainly not under the direction of a popularly-elected executive; a currency union existing alongside national central banks (a genuine recipe for success during a crisis when each central bank acts in its own perceived interest); and a real hodgepodge of a military organization. In these conditions, Europe is ripe for the picking by the single-minded U.S. It is little wonder that Victoria Nuland has little respect for the E.U.

Of course, it is also little wonder that the strongest states in the E.U. have no desire to surrender their current advantages by dilution of their powers and prerogatives through embracing a truly unified, one man, one vote overarching political structure.

This situation is galling to those who wish to preserve genuine nation states, precisely the parties who are being appealed to by the Russian offer to observe. And as an added benefit, the referendum vote is an explicit acknowledgement of the right of a populace to change its political status (within limits, as this is not an invitation to Chechnya to secede from Russia...). This is red meat to nationalist parties. It also serves to remind the individual nations of Europe how very much their own wishes and best interests have been meekly surrendered to transnational organizations (NATO, EU, NGOs, etc.) that are functionally unanswerable to the citizenry, as whatever accountability such organizations may have is on the level of their national elites, who are themselves susceptible to the siren call of the New World Order. These national elites do not consider themselves as accountable to anyone besides themselves.

Additionally, the offer by the Russians points out that they are receptive to having the referendum vote be monitored, but not by transnational elite-serving entities such as the OSCE which are unarguably captive to the interests of the US and its elite lackeys in Europe.

Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | Mar 13 2014 1:59 utc | 30

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CubaNews/conversations/messages/145582

Letter from Vladimir Putin to Nicolás Maduro, March 3, 2014

(unofficial translation)

Dear Mr. President,

Dear Nicolás,

One year has passed since the premature and terrible death of the extraordinary Venezuelan leader and my great friend, Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías. On remembering this exceptional man, I cannot but admire his willpower, his courage, his inexhaustible energy and his personal charm. A fervent defender of his homeland, faithful to the ideas of the great Liberator Simón Bolívar, in the few years of his life, he knew how to achieve many successes for the development of Venezuela and for the good of its people. The vigorous international activity of Hugo Chávez garnered for him deserved respect not only in Latin America but also in other regions of the world.

He always harboured friendly sentiments toward Russia, showing a real interest in the culture and history of our country. With his active personal contribution the firm and lasting bases of the strategic Ruso-Venezuelan alliance were laid.

I reaffirm with great satisfaction that through our joint efforts we will continue carrying out the ideas of Comandante Chávez, making our bi-national ties mutually beneficial in different spheres. I express the conviction that under your leadership comrades in the struggle and followers of Hugo Chávez will achieve new goals in the construction of a strong, sovereign and prosperous Venezuela.

Yours sincerely,

Vladimir Putin

Moscú, Kremlin

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 13 2014 2:00 utc | 31

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 12, 2014 3:23:15 PM | 1

That's New South Wales state legislation. It's a reaction to many drunken idiots and a number of king-hit deaths. Sydney is becoming rather more violent of late. They are curbing 24 hour alcohol in trouble spots.

So in this case, a bit of a balancing act between the rights of groups of drunken idiots, and the rights of others not to be attached and killed, no.

Posted by: DM | Mar 13 2014 2:16 utc | 32

Demian #29: Not sure I follow you. Austria ended up w/Galicia when Poland I believe was partitioned out of existence. Is that what you're referring to? (Do they really want it back as much as, say, Brezinski, who I swear lusts after his family's noble status and then some in the old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?) Or else, I'm just missing something (hey, I'm an American, I'm not expected to know anything).

Posted by: Nora | Mar 13 2014 2:23 utc | 33

GL @ 16: Seriously?

Posted by: ben | Mar 13 2014 2:54 utc | 34

@33

Sorry, I should have provided links.

No, the specifically labeled anti-protest laws which are being used to stifle protestors and called "move-on" are in Victoria state.

While the NSW 'one-punch laws' are something else entirely, it appears.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 13 2014 2:56 utc | 35

More on GLADIO:
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921

Interesting.

Posted by: ben | Mar 13 2014 3:03 utc | 36

Nora #34, my point was pretty simple, and a bit rude. (btw, I'm American, too.) Austria was united with Germany under the Third Reich, and part of Nazi ideology was that Germanic peoples ("Arians") are not just superior to Jews, but also to Slavs. The idea was to conquer lands occupied by Slavs and use the occupants as cheap labor, basically. I don't really know anything about contemporary right-wing Austrians, but I was suggesting that something from the ideology of their right-wing grandfathers might linger.

On a more serious note, we all know that the German government does not feel that it owes southern Europeans anything, so that it's fine to impose austerity measures on them. If Germans are not willing to treat Greeks and Spanish as equals, and so deserving of being helped, why should one expect the Austrians to treat Ukrainians that way? From this angle, being ultra right-wing (as opposed to just right wing, like Merkel) has nothing to do with it.

I'm sure that it doesn't enter any Austrian's mind that they might gain control of some more territory. Austria doesn't border Ukraine. The Ukraine's Western neighbors, as you know, are Poland and Slovakia (which used to be part of the Austro-Hungarian empire), both of which are stable states, unlike the Ukraine. I share your suspicion that some Poles wouldn't mind getting some of Western Ukraine back.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 13 2014 3:06 utc | 37

@33 No, the specifically labeled anti-protest laws which are being used to stifle protestors

Oh, I see. And I just realised that I never watch tv or read newspapers. Sorry, missed that one.

Posted by: DM | Mar 13 2014 3:16 utc | 38

@32
thanks for the president Putin letter!

Posted by: brian | Mar 13 2014 4:04 utc | 39

Posted by: Gonzalo Lira | Mar 12, 2014 5:33:54 PM | 16
dumb american?
Putin and russians NOT trying to annex anything, unlike NATO.

as for your peddling your stuff, yes it s shameless...read ity? no thanks

Posted by: brian | Mar 13 2014 4:15 utc | 40

china's satellites seem to have found some debris ,prolly from flight 370

been thinking, scs is of special interest to fukus

fact is, even before this socalled asia pivot,
fukus spy planes n ships have been combing this region for ages , eavesdropping on everything from emails, mobile phones, to china's nuclear submarines.

http://tinyurl.com/pfw8d6p
http://www.g2mil.com/May2001.htm

u bet fukus spy satellites', which are much more advanced than the chinese version, would have this region covered 24x7 too.

then there are those ultra modern xband radars in japan, sk which are zeroing in on the chinese mainland, scs, ecs .
i'd have thought even a mosquito cannot move its ass around here undetected by fukus !
how come the evil one has nothing to offer so far on the disapperance of a whole god damn 777 ???

Posted by: denk | Mar 13 2014 4:48 utc | 41

Does anyone know if Obama or any US official has been asked by a member of the press why the US couldn't wait for the planned elections in Ukraine? Particularly with regard to the $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, why couldn't that have waited until a government was democratically elected in Ukraine?

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 13 2014 4:53 utc | 42

Tom murphy

You really believe u.s. Care about elections?

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 5:21 utc | 43

I'm beginning to think that the idea that was circulated in the US media that Cossacks living in the Crimea were unhappy about the region going back to Russia was spun out of thin air. Cossacks, like Americans other than people inside the Beltway, understand that Russia is not the USSR. For all I know, it's possible that Cossacks have no more of a concept of the Ukraine as a real country than ethnic Russians do. (Putin indicated recently that the exit of the Ukraine from the Soviet Union did not follow the Soviet constitution, which means that the Ukraine is not a legitimate state.)

Posted by: Demian | Mar 13 2014 5:32 utc | 44

@44 I know that U.S. officials don't care, what I was wondering is if any journalist has even asked anyone from the WHite House or State Department or anyone why the U.S. couldn't have waited for the elections before doing things like giving billion dollar loan guarantees. I'm just curious if the question even got asked.

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 13 2014 5:33 utc | 45

#25 #28 addendum

I posted that late yesterday evening, already tired. Looking into that article again, it's of course not russia itself that has invited observers; the article only says "invited by a russian ngo", which one that is they don't mention. So, apart from that imprecision in content (and putting it in the wrong thread), i notice how much influence common mainstream memes still have on me (willingly swallowing the indicriminate "russia" headline).

Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 13 2014 7:40 utc | 46

Jersey@31, terrific comment, thanks.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 13 2014 8:12 utc | 47

Tom Murphy

Dont want to repeat my self, but US dont care for elections. And their "yats" wouldnt have won anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 9:17 utc | 48

#45 Demian: Cossacks or anyone in Crimea can see that, based on the two countries track records over the last 15 years, it is a very good economic bet to go with Russia rather than Ukraine.

Good to see Kalithea of Moon of Alabama comments section represented in Counterpunch today:

“History shows that wherever the U.S. meddles; chaos and misery are soon to follow.”

- Kalithea, comments line, Moon of Alabama

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 13 2014 9:38 utc | 49

8

SOW, Americans paid BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars for 'Operation Y2K', ostensibly to backup all Federal documents ahead of the Great Zero Event ... which event, of course, never happened, but those NJ data warehouses continued to function as Fed data backup centers, ...after all, we PAID for it!

Surprising then, that the Sep11 event destroyed all those SEC and IRS records of the 2000 Wall Street looting of America's 401ks (and looted the WTCs gold bullion in the process!), as well as destroying all those Congressional investigations of SoD Rumsfeld's 'missing' $2.3 TRILLION he was forced to admit to the very day before Sep11 (watch on You Tube).

Wait! No problem!! All those investigations of deepest fraud and deepest larceny and deepest corruption are safely backed up in NJ Y2K warehouses!!

What? They erased the files?! Comment est-ce possible!

And you never heard a single word about Y2K data backup after Sep11, because those data warehouses are now filled with NSA supercomputers, freely spying on every Americans life.

"E pluribus what difference does it make!" Clinton-Emanuel 2016!!

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 13 2014 9:42 utc | 50

@GL/16
And dreams of world rule and really cares less whether the little crappy peninsula is here or there or whether Ukraine is "democratic" or whatever.... but that's not the point

BTW
Watch first round: Senate O CIA 1...

Posted by: CC | Mar 13 2014 9:48 utc | 51

Correction: And the US dreams of world rule...

Posted by: CC | Mar 13 2014 9:49 utc | 52

23

I was called to Kabul to lead a mission by the Afghan government itself. We traveled the Highway of Death at high speed, and settled in the Kandahar Governor's Guest Compound. We listened and learned, we contacted international associates, we planned and budgeted, and came up with a 100%-Afghan development plan for the region, to foil Taliban recruitment.

(The meme of Afghans as 'Stone-Age' of course, is from USAs Nexus of the Dark Age Lords.)

We took the plan to OEF-A-KDR Command, and they approved it for presentation to USAID-KDR. Quit nice folks at the base, got our teeth looked at and had some flown-in soft ice cream. Then back to the Governor's Palace, a lovely Casa Blanca surviving from the Silk Road Era.

We waited in the hot sun for an hour, until She rolled up between two huge military escort vehicles, as a dozen armed football front-line Marines spread out huh-huh-huh in defensive formation, right there in the Governor's tranquil rose garden. Hard not to smile, really.

This is rich. She walks out of the heavily armored Toyota like Venus on the half-shell, dressed in light camo, took my arm, steered me away from my Afghan hosts, explained she was the wife of a Houston oil mogul, there in KDR to 'Learn State' so she could advance into her diplomatic corps dream, then asked me, 'So what the hell are you doing here!?'

I smiled and said I just wanted to get the project funded, and get the hell out of there.

She laughed, her head thrown back and her coiffured curls dancing in the spring sunlight, "How delightful! But the Afghans don't decide what gets built in Afghanistan, the State Department does! And there's nothing getting built around here (Kandahar) anytime soon!"

So there I was, at the wrong end of the Highway of Death, and the sun going down on Kabul.
You know the rest of the story. But if Karzai signs the US MIC Mafia Get Out of Jail Free Card, then there won't BE an end to the story.

The SOFA Clinton-Kerry is pushing down Karzai's throat allows DoD/CIA to enter and exit the country without inspection or visa, allows them to smuggle anything in or anything out without inspection or tariff, allows them to surveil and to target anyone they want for murder or assassination, without fear of arrest or trial, e.g. The Empire Strikes Back.

I think She went on to Kyrgyzstan in her mission to become the Next Madeleine Albright, and I could tell you a very funny story about that region, ...but we're out of time.

I'm out.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 13 2014 10:34 utc | 53

That abby martin is some pathetic girl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T1oK-xpnVw

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 11:05 utc | 54

Frau Merkel and funny face Hollande have both issued the most absurd threat yet to Russia...Do these countries think they live far away from Russia???

They keep harping on about economic sanctions..But they stand to loose greatly if they carry on their threats..This is how they bluffed themselves into the Ukraine mess..They never learn!!!

Posted by: Zico | Mar 13 2014 11:15 utc | 55

"insofar as Crimea is concerned; Putin and the Russians are trying to re-create the USSR, and annexing Ukraine is a big part of that agenda. It has nothing to do with “stopping the fascists in Ukraine”, which is just an excuse for a good old fashioned land-grab."

Pretty stupid. Think I'll buy the book and read just enough of it to write a shitty review.

Posted by: Kepler | Mar 13 2014 11:42 utc | 56

Zico (56)

I think there is too much focus on gas alone.
Actually the Russian minister for economy (A. Ulyukaev) hinted at something way more deadly. He said that one attractive way for Russia to counterbalance any weztern sanctions would be to demand payment and to pay in national currencies.

In other words: If zusa/zeu want to play that game, Russia (and quite probably not Russia alone) will unpack and use the big fat gun against zus$ and zeuro.

As for "Russia needs zeu more than the other way round": A vast part of the goods purchased from zeu can as well be bought from China or other sources. Japan, for instance, would certainly just love to sell to co-produce their cars in Russia.

Last but not least, from what I hear (my partner is German) most people in zeu don't believe their politicians any more and would certainly be on the streets if their homes were cold next winter.
Similarly many european enterprise have vast investments, businesses, and opportunities in Russia and won't just hold still when merkel and the other european criminals completely fuck up relations with Russia.

My personal guess: Putin will (and possibly already does) intensify pressure on western business interests in Russia. Any damage done by weztern sanctions will simply put on top of the gas price and at least for some years europe is completely dependent on Russias gas.

And again, I would not at all be surprised if Putin would quite soon push merkel (the worst bitch of all together with poland) into a really bad situation through some "accidential" leak.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 13 2014 12:14 utc | 57

nothing has changed in the empire
“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country(Chile) go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people.” —Henry Kissinger, June 27, 1970

Posted by: brian | Mar 13 2014 13:20 utc | 58

Posted by: Enejo | Mar 13 2014 13:27 utc | 59

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3iPP-tHdA

Posted by: whoops | Mar 13 2014 13:34 utc | 60

Not only have I actually lived in Ukraine, in both Kiev and Dnipropetrovsk, I'm still in regular contact with people there.

Yanukovych was a Putin stooge who ran off in the face of popular discontent. He was the not driven off, he ran off in a cowardly fashion, to Russia (surprise).

In the face of the majority of Ukraines wanting closer ties with the west at the expense of ties with Russia, and using the opportunity of a momentary power vacuum in the country, Putin is making a naked land-grab for Crimea. In time, Putin will make a try to annex the eastern half of Ukraine as well.

He did the same in Georgia, for all those who didn't notice.

brought to you by “A Secret History of The American Crash”

Posted by: Gonzalo Lira | Mar 13 2014 13:48 utc | 61

watch out Gonzalo Lira...any deviation from the groupthink here will be severely punished, they swallow everything the kremlin says, without even critical analysis. It's quite funny to read, completely delusional and without any idea of the actual reality in that part of the world.

Posted by: Another Jeff | Mar 13 2014 13:58 utc | 62

Another Jeff

Groupthink? Comes from someone that have racist views against Russians and watch MSM and must let everyone here now know every now and then.
Get a job troll.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 14:07 utc | 63

Gonzalo Lira

Not only have I actually lived in Ukraine, in both Kiev and Dnipropetrovsk, I'm still in regular contact with people there.
Like anyone here doubt you are in regular contact with Kiev. Say hey to Svoboda from here will you?

Always funny with people coming here making ads for their useless blogs and books.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 14:10 utc | 64

Hey, Another Jeff, find those WMD yet?

Posted by: Kepler | Mar 13 2014 14:21 utc | 65

@ 62: ".any deviation from the groupthink here will be severely punished"

Rhetorically, for sure.

Posted by: ben | Mar 13 2014 14:35 utc | 66

Gonzalo Lira (61)

Wow. A living bullshit factory!

yanokovich was no Putin stooge but he actually was rather anti-Putin and Putin despised him because y. was imcompetent and corrupt.

As for the "ukraine majority" you probably spatter about some demonstrators, who do *not* represent any seizable part of ukraine population. The majority of ukrainians want a democratic legitimate government, jobs, and a halfway decent life.

Btw., I myself, my neighbour and my cat that is, the majority of Europe, just decided that you are a stupid rat. How's that for a "majority"?

Putin made *no* landgrab in georgia. Russias borders haven't changed.
Neither does Putin make a landgrab in Crimea - although he has been politely asked by the Crimeans to do so.

And now piss off and try again, when you understand at least some basic facts.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 13 2014 14:48 utc | 67

#41 One thing yet to make it into any coverage of that missing plane is the fact that three (3) passengers listed on the manifest were... wait for it... Americans. The whole thing smells very bad.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 13 2014 15:01 utc | 68

Anonymous@48 You are missing my point. What I am asking (to see what extent that MSM plays along with the agenda) is if any reporter has even asked any US government official a simple question about why these loan guarantees couldn't wait for democratic elections to take place in Ukraine and THEN they could decide if they want to give that new government loan guarantees and the new Ukrainian government could decide if they wanted that kind of deal.

"Financial support sought by the U.S. for Ukraine’s interim leadership would violate American law barring aid to any regime that uses force to take power, the Russian Foreign Ministry said yesterday in a statement. Russia considers the ouster of Moscow-backed Yanukovych a coup, an assertion rejected by the U.S." http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2014-03-12/russia-calls-u-s-aid-to-ukraine-illegal-amid-standoff.html

BTW, I am still trying to get the facts out about how US power players don't care about democracy so if anyone wants to help spread that message, you can use the YouTube tools below this video to help share it with others: http://youtu.be/mBAB_unT2kM

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 13 2014 15:06 utc | 69

@63
Another Jeff doesn't believe in groupthink. He indulges in group 'do as you're told.'

Posted by: bevin | Mar 13 2014 15:12 utc | 70

Tom Murphy

Why? Well thats obvious, US buy their allies. Why wait? No point from US POV.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 15:25 utc | 71

Hey, Gorgonzola, what do I get if I sign up for your "Plan"?

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 13 2014 15:33 utc | 72

Mr. Pragma@57. I agree. And I would add that I think all the tough talk on economic sanctions by Merkel is a bluff. The argument currently being made is European trade with Russia is 1% of GDP, while Russia has 15% of its GDP tied up in European trade. Therefore, the argument goes, once sanctions kick in it won't be long before Russia's oligarchs exert pressure on Putin to negotiate with the putsch government in Kiev. But I think, as usual, the West is applying its own rancid, plutocratic standards to Russia. Putin has a much firmer hold of his oligarchs than Merkel has on hers. Merkel is the one who is more vulnerable to oligarchic influence.

Also, I wanted to endorse your comments the other day about the U.S., both at home and abroad, acting only when it can be comfortable that it has 10-to-1 advantage.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 13 2014 15:48 utc | 73

For those interested a great essay on Counterpunch:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/07/the-indoctrinated-west/

Posted by: ben | Mar 13 2014 15:49 utc | 74

No kind word for juannie despite all the many great posts over the years?

If, because of his own lack of scruples and willingness to ignore our hosts requests-we have to put up with this lamentable stain-and it is clearly the same one in style and in substance, changing ips, being a rude asshole- then the least we can do is stand up for one another.

Ask-why is he here hon MoA having been asked to go by our host? Clearly he goes through special steps to beat the ban. Is this the act of someone who just wants to share his views? A simple case of "asshole"? Or is this something else?

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 13 2014 15:50 utc | 75

Mike Maloney (73)

Of course. And that 1% vs 15% logic conveniently and self-delusionally ignores that those 15% are, at least short and mid-term not at zeus disposal; they *have to have* that gas.

Re. zusas 10:1 strategy, I have to confess that I was somewhat pissed off. Because once more I went into the "while you write a long and thoughtful post MoA opens the 3627th. thread re. ukraine and your post will be largely ignored" trap. It pisses me even more off because I happen to think that my post might have been helpful to understand the big line better.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 13 2014 15:57 utc | 76

Guest77
I don't understand. What is the problem re "juannie" whose cheerful post is at the top of this thread?

Posted by: bevin | Mar 13 2014 16:04 utc | 77

One thing no one seems to remember in the West is that South Ossetia had a referendum before Georgian troops attacked, and both the turnout rate and the pro-independence percentage of the vote were in the high 90's.

Posted by: Jon Lester | Mar 13 2014 16:04 utc | 78

Hey, the Pentagon has a lot of money to blow on psyops, and it's a given that paid stooges spam message boards to push the PNAC agenda. All anyone can do is find as much info as possible, avoid Crimestop, refuse to be selective or biased, remember actual history rather than the sanitized, dressed up version that most Americans seem to prefer, indulge in a little honest moral evaluation and draw one's own conclusions.

Facts as they stand are that the US spent 5 billion to power up some fascists in Kiev, someone used snipers to shoot at cops and protestors alike after the elected government agreed to a truce and concessions, and now the same country that invaded Iraq, that wanted to attack Syria, has a long history of overthrowing elected governments to benefit their richest members, and has an ongoing campaign of aggression around the world is jumping up and down and screaming foul about Crimea.

Gee, can't imagine why.

Maybe some bases and missiles in Ukraine will make it all better. Can't dominate the world until the east buckles, right?

Posted by: Kepler | Mar 13 2014 16:10 utc | 79

Kepler @79' What a truly excellent post.

It really ought to be clear to anyone paying the tiniest bit of attention that there is a very good case for presuming the guilt of the US wherever it is involved.

In the past the assumption in the "west" has been that the US is generally well motivated if not always right.

It is an assumption that is born not just of a lifetime of brainwashing/education but of centuries of imperialism justified on the basis that history involves a progress from primitive, hunter gatherer, societies through peasant agricultural to commercial and finally capitalist industrial societies. The last being either the acme of development (according to the caoitalists) or the necessary preliminary to the inauguration of socialism.
Both theories spell equally hard times for any cultures caught stalled on the road to the future. The crude "marxist" parody differing only marginally from the crass capitalist worship of Providence which is power. Which is why not only the capitalists cheer the fascist militias being assembled in Kiev but vulgarians like Tariq Ali and other believers in "progress" go along with them.

(Alternative fictional reading to Gonzalo @15's novel:
#1 Dead Souls by Gogol.)

Posted by: bevin | Mar 13 2014 16:39 utc | 80

@53 Chip Nikh - interesting and entertaining post.. would enjoy more posts like that!

Posted by: james | Mar 13 2014 16:41 utc | 81

from RT "Ukrainian oligarch Firtash arrested in Vienna – reports

Austria has arrested one of Ukraine's richest men, Dmitry Firtash, at the request of the US, which has been investigating him since 2006, Reuters reported, citing government sources. The Federal Crime Agency on Thursday identified the suspect only as Dmitry F., 48, but government sources said it was Firtash. “Based on years of investigations by the US FBI and an arrest warrant issued by a US federal district court, Vienna prosecutors issued a national order to detain the businessman,” the agency said. He was suspected of bribery and forming a criminal organization in the course of foreign business deals. There was no immediate confirmation from the FBI or US Justice Department."

Posted by: james | Mar 13 2014 16:45 utc | 82

further to my last post - from wikipedia - "Certain analysts and Ukrainian politicians believe that Firtash is a secret force behind the sentencing of Yulia Tymoshenko in 2011 either as revenge or because of his "lucrative relations" with Russia he is deliberately hindering Ukraine's European Union integration.[29] Firtash was accused in a New York court of “masterminding” Tymoshenko's imprisonment; the case was dismissed in March 2013.[30]

In the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election Firtash was perceived as being one of UDAR’s main sponsors.[31] This has been denied by UDAR.[32]

On July 23, 2013 brothers Ilya and Vadim Segal, the New York-based owners of Dancroft Holdings brought charges against Firtash and Nadra Bank, Ukraine's eighth-largest bank, in New York County Supreme Court.[33] The suit accuses Firtash, the banks owner, of seizing their assets via “sham lawsuits” over debt, and of using his connections with President Viktor Yanukovich to guarantee the outcomes in court cases.[34] The suit stated that the former head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valeriy Khoroshkovskyi, is a business partner of Firtash, together with head of the presidential administration Serhiy Lyovochkin, and former Ukrainian energy minister, (at the time of the complaint) Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boiko. According to the complaint, the SBU, in bringing charges against the Segals, was simply acting on behalf of Firtash.[35]"

Posted by: james | Mar 13 2014 16:49 utc | 83

Forget wikipedia for anything remotely political. In those matters wikipedia is a propaganda tool like all other western organizsations.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 13 2014 17:06 utc | 84

Nora 68

it sure stinks.
for one, it took malaysia more than 5 hrs after losing contact to break the news.
right now recriminations is flying thick n fast bet china n malaysia, which arguably is the most china friendly member in asian, the malaysians have so far desist in joining the fukus orchestrated anti china posse.
http://www.onenewspage.com/n/Asia-Pacific/750cn6zj9/China-slams-Malaysia-over-%E2%80%98chaotic%E2%80%99-response-to-hunt.htm

cui bono ?

*********************************

air france flight 447 redux
*Theories about the Boeing 777's fate are rebounding around mainstream and social media, with terrorism top of the list. But that was also the case with AF447 in 2009. "Two names on doomed Air France Flight 447's passenger list also appear on a list of radical muslims," said the Fox News network on 10 June 2009.*

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25194-search-for-missing-malaysian-plane-goes-high-tech.html#.UyHbtM6MXBI

on flight 447 was a top chinese scientist who's engaged in a top secret project with the brazilians, chinese sites reported that the man was regarded as a genius by his peers.

http://www.airfrance447.com/06/03/xiao-xiang-35-scientist-chinese/

*I am so saddened to see this happen. I am praying for all the people and families involved. I hope that all countries involved or at least several countries will do their own investigations into what caused this to happen. Everyone knows the country I live in can't be trusted for any reason whatsoever. I hope that all involved will find peace and comfort someday, as only time will allow. If anyone would like to read the truth about world events please visit: rense dot com, globalresearch dot ca, infowars dot com. Please watch internet movies: Zeitgeist the movie, Wake up call, and ENDGAME:Blueprint for global enslavement. There is no church or religion above the TRUTH. Always search for the TRUTH, wherever it may go, whoever it may lead to*

.amen

Posted by: denk | Mar 13 2014 17:08 utc | 85

Firtash seems to me another powerful man infected with hubris. What in the world was he doing in ANY western country after Yanukovych was taken down? I suppose he thought his wealth and power made him safe - big fail.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 13 2014 17:28 utc | 86

denk, #85 Well, those three as-yet-unnamed Americans sure seem like the dog that didn't bark: can you remember any crash, anywhere, involving an American where a fuss wasn't made here? Those three people, if they ever did exist, haven't had their names listed, their relatives hounded for interviews, ad nauseum. And yet there were three putative American passengers listed on the manifest. I'm thinking the Malaysians are bumbling in terror bc they're caught between some kind of rock (US) and hard place (China). And God only knows what the real families of the real victims are going through -- I can't even imagine.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 13 2014 17:30 utc | 87


the pentagoons have finally spoken
*Pentagon officials have told ABC News that they believe missing flight MH370 ditched in the Indian Ocean.

Officials in the U.S. are so confident that they are repositioning USS Kidd to the area to start a search following reports that the plane may have continued for another four or five hours after disappearing from radar.

The official said: "We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean*

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3236617

Posted by: denk | Mar 13 2014 17:32 utc | 88

Nora 87
*And God only knows what the real families of the real victims are going through -- I can't even imagine.*

have u noticed images of grieving chinese who lost their families in *terrorist attacks* seem to be a very common sight these days ?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/us-malaysia-airlines-crash-china-idUSBREA2709E20140308


Posted by: denk | Mar 13 2014 17:46 utc | 89

@ 84 Mr. Pragma.. i generally enjoy your posts and you or others have made this comment on wikipedia many times before. it hasn't gone un-noticed... perhaps you have something else to say too which would be interesting, but here you are just repeating yourself. thanks.

Posted by: james | Mar 13 2014 17:48 utc | 90

#89 Sure have.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 13 2014 17:53 utc | 91

Time for a musical interlude....

http://listen.hatnote.com/

Posted by: dh | Mar 13 2014 17:55 utc | 92

@53 thoroughly enjoyed reading that...

Posted by: anon | Mar 13 2014 18:24 utc | 93

ben @74 I agree with you. The link you gave is to a superb article. I agree with about half of it. And all of it, if that makes any sense.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 13 2014 18:54 utc | 94

@bevin a post by the troll, signed "scientology", insulting juannie was up, but b appears to have rightfully removed it.

But no one responded to the insult of junkie, and i was suggesting that if tolls cannot effectively by banned due to tech constraints, then at least we can let juannie and others know the vast majority opinion is against the troll and provide an antidote to his social poison.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 13 2014 18:58 utc | 95

The good news is: When Putin is done with zusa, they won't have the money anymore to pay social agents to disturb.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 13 2014 19:19 utc | 96

30 The broken FPÖ Link

It is basically a populist shot against paying for Ukraine, and against the "EU following Washington without thinking for themselves".

It is an obvious political strategy as mainstream conservative politicians seem to have left that territory.

Austria's FPÖ definitively is pro Putin though.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 13 2014 19:37 utc | 97

juannie has been here for a long long time, one of the first if i remember correctly

u s imperialism has humiliated every nation, every culture, every people on earth. they remain without question, the freatest threat to humanity. period

russia is not the socialist motherland but it pains me physically to see her humiliated, she clearly possesses the intelligence, her quick reaction in crimea, was evidence of that, but i hope she possesses the force to counteract the empire's very real threat of violence, there is no question that the empire will make allies with takfiris & fascists to seek their goal

the real people who put effort here are b & those who share generously of their knowledge or even of their questioning, those who come to do harm here are very very transparent

Posted by: rememnererringgiap | Mar 13 2014 19:47 utc | 98

Somebody

How popular/small/big are "FPÖ" as a party?

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 20:09 utc | 99

Now the attacks against russians have begun, 1 killed.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-protest-donetsk-dead-674/

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13 2014 20:17 utc | 100

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