Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 28, 2014
Media Neglect Turkish False Flag Attack Leak And Its Implications

Some more thoughts on the leaked tape from a meeting in the Turkish foreign ministry which is only very selectively reported in "western" media. A video with recorded voices and English text is available as is the seemingly complete text in two parts.

The setting of the recording is this:

The voices of the illegal recording believed to belong to Davutoğlu, National Intelligence Organization (MİT) Hakan Fidan, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu, and Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Gürel. According to the information obtained from sources, the recording consists of a chat between four officials in Davutoğlu’s office before the commencement of the official meeting with the participation of more civil and military bureaucrats in another room at the Foreign Ministry.

It is not clear when exactly the meeting happened. It would fit the situation late last year or early 2014.

The major points from my view:

  • Turkey has delivered 2,000 trucks of weapons and ammunition to the insurgents in Syria.
  • There are plans for false flag attacks on Turkey or Turkish property to justify an attack from Turkey on Syria.
  • The Turkish military has great concerns going into and fighting Syria.
  • The general atmosphere between these deciders is one of indecisiveness. Everyone seems to be unclear what Erdogan wants and is waiting for clear orders from above.
  • U.S. military has shortly before the meeting presented fresh plans for a no-fly one over Syria.

Then there is the fact in itself that this tape and others leaked. Internal government communication in Turkey and personal communication of Turkish official has been thoroughly compromised. This will hinder future decision making and will erode any trust Turkish government allies may have in it.

It is somewhat astonishing how "western" media avoid the content of the leaked tape. An AP report on it makes a lot of the youtube blocking the Turkish government ordered in reaction to the tape. Of the recording itself the AP only mentions this:

The four are allegedly heard discussing a military intervention in neighboring Syria, a sensitive political issue in Turkey, although the context of the conversation is not clear.

The Washington Post filed that AP report under Technology. This is an incredible disservice to its readers.

The Guardian report based on Reuters is not any better:

The move by the TIB came hours after an anonymous YouTube account posted a leaked audio recording allegedly of a confidential conversation between Turkish intelligence chief Hakan Fidan, foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu, undersecretary of the foreign ministry Feridun Sinirlioglu and deputy chief of the general staff, Yasar Gürel, discussing possible military action in Syria.

There is no mentioning at all of the false flag attack. The Wall Street Journal comes somewhat nearer to the truth:

… a leaked recording published anonymously on the platform purported to reveal a conversation in which Turkey's foreign minister, spy chief and a top general appear to discuss how to create a pretext for a possible Turkish attack within Syria.

For once kudos to the NYT which at least touches one point but leaves out the other important ones:

… the officials were heard discussing a plot to establish a justification for military strikes in Syria. One option that is said to have been discussed was orchestrating an attack on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah …

German media did not do any better.

A NATO ally is planning a false flag attack on its own territory which would implicate NATO Article 5 and other NATO countries' forces and the media do not even touch the issue? This is ludicrous.

Related to the Syria issue is another thinly sourced trial balloon, the tenth or so, by the unofficial CIA spokesperson David Ignatius in the Washington Post:

The Obama administration, stung by reversals in Ukraine and Syria, appears to have decided to expand its covert program of training and assistance for the Syrian opposition, deepening U.S. involvement in that brutal and stalemated civil war.

Details of the plan were still being debated Thursday, but its likely outlines were described by knowledgeable officials: …

It follows the list of issues that have been discussed on and on over the last three years, more CIA training for insurgents in Jordan, more weapons, maybe some MANPADs. Ignatius source is here seems to be the CIA friends in the Syrian opposition:

The expanded program would “send a clear message to the Assad regime that there is no military solution to the struggle,” according to a March memo to the White House from the opposition. Assad “has no incentive to talk” now, the memo argued, because he thinks he is winning.

The rationale, bluntly stated, is that to reach an eventual diplomatic settlement in Syria, it is necessary now to escalate the conflict militarily. This has been a hard pill for Obama to swallow, but prodded by the Saudis, he seems to have reached that point.

There are so many caveats in here – "appears to have decided", 2still being debated", "seems to have reached that point" – that I do not believe a word of it. The loudly announced, by Ignatius and others, attack on south Syria has yet to appear and the halfhearted attack by the Turkish supported Jihadists in the north seems to be stuck.

I do not anticipate any bigger action by Turkey or the U.S. especially as the such action right now would likely lead to harsher reaction by Russia.

Comments

C-Span, US media, calls this an ‘apology for tyranny’: for americans there is only 1 free and democratic state…their own
‘“Why are we pretending otherwise? Why are we speaking about naked aggression, why are we speaking about stealing Crimea, why are we speaking about bullying, or the new Soviet Union, or thuggery, or audacious power grabbing, or bully bear Putin, or Cold War two?” Grayson went on.
“This is not some new Cold War that’s occurring,” he said. “In fact it’s quite the contrary. We should be pleased to see, pleased to see, when a virtually bloodless transfer of power establishes self determination for two million people somewhere in the world, anywhere in world. And in fact what we’re seeing here instead, is the vilification of Putin, the vilification of Yanukovych, the vilification of anybody that we try to identify as our enemy.”
etc
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4488111/alan-grayson-opening-comments

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 4:52 utc | 101

Posted by: Christopher | Mar 28, 2014 11:11:11 PM | 97
Just as Turkey has proxies in Syria (and ISIL as probably one of them) Syria has proxies in Turkey they can activate. Syria possibly can also “encourage” Kurdish factions. Syrian/Turkish border is artificial through families, tribes and ethnicities.
ISIL attacking an Armenian villiage under cover from Turkey opens up very bitter memories.
So what they fear is a terror campaign in Turkey.
I still consider the leak staged.
Because what they actually did is this

Three days before the assault on Kessab, the leader of Turkey’s opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP), Kemal Kilicdaroglu, called on Chief of General Staff General Necdet Ozel “not to embark on an adventure” with a military intervention in Syria, saying that “He [Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan] could decide to move the army into Syria before the elections.”
Kilicdaroglu’s prediction seems to have come true when the Turkish air force gunned down a Syrian warplane on March 23, in an area where al-Qaeda affiliated groups have been battling the Syrian Army and National Defense Forces (NDF) over control of a border crossing. PM Erdogan congratulated his army in an election rally in northwest Turkey.
Analysts believe this could be Erdogan’s last card before local elections in Turkey take place on March 30. Some Syrian observers believe this escalation on the part of Turkey is a provocative act aimed at dragging both armies into a direct confrontation in order to mobilize the Turkish public and regain some of the support Erdogan lost in the last few months as a result of the corruption scandals and restrictions on media freedom. With Erdogan’s popularity in decline, he is seemingly hoping to export the internal crisis abroad to gain a moral victory which could help him in the upcoming elections.

They acted in support of ISIL not fighting ISIL as the leak claims.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 4:52 utc | 102

The Kerry “no-fly zone”
This here from the translation b. links to – and no this was not in the German press only the false flag plans

FS: No, but the Americans have handed out the plans for the “no fly zone” at this meeting. For the first time in this meeting. Did you know about that?
HF: Now, what I’m trying to underline, sir, is if we are going to make this decision, such a serious decision on the grounds of Suleyman Shah, if are ready for it…
FS: No, not just Suleyman Shah…
HF: No, I’m saying, if we’re ready we should have made this decision long time ago. Based on the threats and interest at hand. That’s what I’m trying to say. As a state, it’d appear impotent to…
AD: Yes, if we made that decision at a smaller scale we would not face this choice now.
YG: But no, we DID take this decision…
HF: But it wasn’t implemented
YG: We could not implement the decision, for various reasons we have been paralyzed, that is our concern, sir. The instruments of state are defunct at the moment
AD: I cannot accept this, frankly, I look at it on my side, with my mores. Would you accept such a thing; that affairs are delayed at the Foreign Ministry due to political discussions… that wouldn’t be legitimate! Everyone will continue with his duties in a resolute manner. If an ambassador said, sir, they can sack me, they sack everyone, what would you say? Would we not say to him, then go ahead and resign, we will find someone who can undertake the duty, right? That’s how one has to view the situation. That’s how things work in a democracy…
YG: Sir, you’re so right
AD: Right now the state operates on a few units and persons who can take good decisions, I…
YG: Exactly, sir, exactly
AD: So are we going to back down from this then?
YG: No, sir, we won’t back down
AD: Anyhow, let’s move to the other room

To me it sounds like they are telling the US – sorry, we cannot do what you want us to do – let us get rid of our internal enemies first.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 5:07 utc | 103

The purge has started.

A columnist regarded as close to the Gülen Movement was detained in Ankara March 29 as the first suspect in the investigation on the leak of a recording of top security officials discussing possible military action in Syria.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 5:12 utc | 104

So now, Erdogan’s narrative is set – enemies of the Turkish state are leaking false allegations – never mind sex, corruption or false flag.
And he is justified in persecuting his enemies with the full power of the state.
Very convenient, don’t you think?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 6:36 utc | 105

Demian@64,
Thanks for your post. I’ve never seen American media in full blown war mode before and I have watched it since the Korean War. Tonight’s broadcasts were all about Russia massing troops to invade Ukraine. Also, there are news hints that the USA is going to do something about Syria. It is really time to be frightened. The world is going insane.
Due to peak oil, climate change and greed, western corporatists have decided to destabilize Russia, once again. Chaos is starting to reign from Polish border south through Ukraine and Turkey to the Golan Heights. This is by choice. Thanks to ignorance and ideology, the western establishment refuses to see that the chaos will require Russian intervention and a conventional war between two nuclear powers will unavoidably escalate and end with Armageddon.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Mar 29 2014 6:42 utc | 106

truthbetold89, There is little to do but “hollow guesswork”. Ed Howard was my across he street neighbor, years ago in Santa Fe. Pleasant chap, nice family, immediately striking in conversation for his brilliant mind – rather like Snowden, I’d say. Well, Howard had been working for Russian counterintelligence for years before CIA/FBI began to catch on. When he escaped from Santa Fe to Russia he went into permanent exile; will always be on ‘wanted’ list by FBI etc, and has built a somewhat satisfactory life in Russia.
When we first started following the Snowden story, I kept thinking of Howard. What if Snowden had been working for FSB for years? What if he needed a cover story to get himself to Russia? The way that “stranded in Russia” story played out was a little too cute, I thought, and still do. Yes, this is definitely more ‘hollow guesswork’, but entertaining if I don’t take myself too seriously. 😉

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 29 2014 7:14 utc | 107

“near total or absolute knowledge and understanding of self, adversary, and environment; rapidity and timeliness in application; operational brilliance in execution; and (near) total control and signature management of the entire operational environment.”
‘Shock and Awe’, rebranded from Shekinah, The Shekinah Glory of the Chosen

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 29 2014 8:07 utc | 108

Interesting links: KILLING KIDS ON A FIELD TRIP; ERGENEKON AND 9 11

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 29 2014 8:20 utc | 109

If Mr P were still here he would have jumped on this with both of his two, large, Russian, clod-hopping feet, but since he is unaviodfably detained elsewhere until further notice, I shall do it. Not content with pissing on everyone who disagrees with his archaic prejudices, ‘Rememberinggiap the Maoist’ is now plugging heavy-duty, professional, inside-track Zionist versions of modern history: Raul Hilberg, Mark Aarons, John Loftus:

i would like to suggest to you michael wildts the uncompromising generation john erickson’s two books in the russian defeat do fascism in the very greatest detail – place the role of collaborators within a larger framework – every bit as rigorous as raul hilberg – road to stalingrad & road to berlin a book by mark aroons in australia which may be out of print – which covered the australian intelligence use & instrumentalisation of right wing ukrainians balts & other mostly eastern european muscle in the 1950’s in the right wing catholics demolition of the communist party & other social organisations – with their Movement – that was fascist in every respect & helped to destroy civil society; the same was true in france the american writer john loftus also details this & this basic fact that still remains true they were both ideologically committed but also common bandits the modern takfiri is little different Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 28, 2014 5:34:47 PM | 77

It’s amusing that he affects an air of being too busy with lofty philosophical matters of state elsewhere to be able to spare the time to spell and punctuate properly.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 29 2014 8:25 utc | 110

Obama off to Riyahd, Lords of the Dark Realm,
to green-light man-pads for Syria. Cyclone II.
Saudis also out to destroy Iraqi oil production.
Os feint to Kiev achieved it’s rebranding intent.
Russia is the Renegade Evil Empire™, once again.
Putin is bottled up in Sebastopol, ‘castled up’.
So US:UN back to Damascus. Shut down the skies.
Overrun the Syrian bases. Send in UN ‘observers’.
Shut down the Syrian air defense system radars.
Straight shot, deniable, stealth alley to Tehran.
Boeing rebuilt Zio’s FB launch rails to carry nukes.
Obama sold the Zios the nukes, the stealth radar,
the inflight refueling. All arranged by Hagel.
Tick tock. Check, and soon mate. They’ll claim the
Iranian reactor was ‘destroyed by saboteurs’ and
the radioactivity raining on our troops in OEF-A.
Iran oil supply destruction, oil over $145 a barrel,
US heating oil over $4 a gallon. “Mommy, I’m cold.”
National Carbon Tax will follow shortly afterward.
You are just another useless mouth to feed and heat.
Islmaic banking destruction, total lockdown of all
currency and account access. Extension of retirement
age will follow soon after, then devaluation. Again.
Ask around, … the wire transfer net is tightening.
And looting the Iranian crown jewels, richer than the
Queen or the Pope, combined. The trappings of Empire,
as HRH Hillary ascends the throne, unopposed in 2016.
The Fifth Reich of 1000 Years. Ululululululululululu.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 29 2014 8:31 utc | 111

Tom,
Sorry I have not time to develop (I’ve procrastined too much yesterday and can’t repeat today). What I meant about le Monde article is that the title “the transition is bloody but it is taking place” makes the reader think he is going to read something about agreement processes (such as the ones taking place locally in the last few months). But the content of the interview is the same garbage and wishful thinking, plainly ignoring any fact or actual data. It means, imo, that journalists are just quickly sampling what they are given, and that the headline betrays the real intent…
Interesting comment posted by “M” on Syrper
Hahahahaha, Serbia and Russia catched Barak Obama lying in front of 2000 reporters and guests in Brussels on 26/03/2014. In his speech he said that the Kosovo become independent after an democratic referendum. Only referendum that happened there was in
26th to 30th September 1991
, organized by kosovo albanians against the (then) F.R. Yugoslavian law. The referendum was so democratic that even US haven’t accepted its results. The ONLY country that accepted its results was neighboring ALBANIA, wounder why… Then what really happened;
After (staged-confirmed) “Racak” massacre NATO attacked Serbia. The operation was not authorised by the United Nations and was the first time that NATO used military force without the approval of the UN Security Council and against a sovereign nation that did not pose a threat to members of the alliance. The strikes lasted from
March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999.
United Nations Security Council resolution 1244, adopted on 10 June 1999 ended NATO bombing end here are the main features of resolution
-Demand in particular that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia put an immediate and verifiable end to violence and repression in Kosovo;
complete verifiable phased withdrawal from Kosovo of all military, police and paramilitary forces according to a rapid timetable, with which the deployment of the international security presence in Kosovo will be synchronized;
-Place Kosovo under interim UN administration (performed by the United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo, UNMIK);
-Authorize a NATO-led peacekeeping force in Kosovo (currently performed by the Kosovo Force, KFOR);
Allow for the return of an agreed number of Yugoslav and Serbian personnel to maintain a presence at Serbian Patrimonial sites and key border crossings;
-Direct UNMIK to establish provisional institutions of local self-government in Kosovo (PISG);
-Reaffirm the commitment of UN member states to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (succeeded by Serbia)[note 1] and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2 of UNSCR 1244 (an annex that envisions, inter alia, a Kosovo status process);
-Require the UN to assure the safe and unimpeded return of all refugees and displaced persons to their homes in Kosovo and to ensure conditions for a peaceful and normal life for all inhabitants of the province;
-Require that the KLA and other armed Kosovo Albanian groups be demilitarized;
-Authorize the United Nations to facilitate a political process to determine Kosovo’s future status. Kosovo’s future status would take into consideration the Rambouillet Agreement which Serbia refused to sign in 1998, and which calls for the “will of the people of Kosovo” to be one of the guiding principles in defining Kosovo’s status, another being the respective compliance of the disputing parties to the Agreement. The resolution reaffirms calls for
“substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo”.
Anybody sees any “Independent” country of Kosovo there?
Previous “negotiations” (read ultimatum) called “Rambouillet Agreement”, on 18 March 1999, the Albanian, American and British delegation signed, while the Serbian and Russian delegations refused. The accords called for NATO administration of Kosovo as an autonomous province within Yugoslavia; a force of 30,000 NATO troops to maintain order in Kosovo; an unhindered right of passage for NATO troops on Yugoslav territory, including Kosovo; and immunity for NATO and its agents to Yugoslav law.
It was rejected by both Serbia and Russia because it means factual occupation of Serbia by NATO.
Here it comes now;
17 February 2008
The 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence was adopted by the Assembly of Kosovo. The albanians unanimously declared Kosovo to be independent from Serbia (against Serbian law), while all 11 representatives of the Serb minority boycotted the proceedings. The assembly “decalaration” is used by US to proclame the kosovo as an independent country.
1)The resolution was forced on Serbai (then FR Yugoslavia) by millitary attack, how democratic…
2) US had NO RIGHT under resolution 1244 to take the part of Serbia and call it independent. I have to stress the part of the resolution: “substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo”
3) The US recognized kosovo independance after their DECLARATION, there was no democratic referendum.
Pure lie, there was no “democratic referendum” like he said. Another possibility is that he is seeing things that don’t exist, in which case – I am sure, they have some appropriate institutions in their country for him.
US is behaving like a classic thug on international scene, but at those times there was nobody to help Yugoslavia against NATO, USSR was gone and balance of powers was gone too…
Conclusion;
According to US if any part of any country becomes overrun by one ethnic minority they can take that part of the country, on a democratic referendum, and proclaim independence.
Why is that wrong? I will just give an example:
According to them, if Turks become majority in Aleppo they can declare independence, because they are majority now, from the rest of Syria.
Do you see how wrong that is?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 29 2014 8:59 utc | 112

@Christopher #101
Re: Syrian/Turkish border is artificial through families, tribes and ethnicities.
Yes, very artificial!
For most of its length the border follows the right-of-way of the Berlin–Baghdad railway, with the railroad tracks and stations on the Turkish side. The Kurdish resistance has made this arrangement very… unpractical. On the Syrian side the fields extend all the way to the tracks. The Turkish side hosts an Inner German border-style death zone with 500 meter wide sand traps and mine fields.
I would guess this makes maintenance work on the railway quite difficult, not to speak about terrorist threats emanating from the Syrian side. (Somehow all this makes me believe the al-Qaeda terrorist in northern Syria are not really interested in attacking Turkey, but are rather controlled by Turkey!)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 29 2014 10:43 utc | 113

A political cartoon about the invasion point: the land and people of Kessab, Syria.
http://www.armeniapedia.org/wiki/File:Kessab-turkey-cartoon.jpg

Posted by: Paul | Mar 29 2014 10:51 utc | 114

Re Turkey’s “concerns” over attacking Syria.
Is it that Russia would step in against Turkey?
Posted by: Christopher | Mar 28, 2014 11:11:11 PM | 97

Yes, that is precisely what would happen. And not just Turkey, either.
The Russian flotilla off-shore from Syria is combat-ready and definitely NOT on holidays. The bluster and rumours about a no-fly zone over Syria are pure fantasy. If Turkey or Israel or NATO itself declares, or attempts to enforce, a no-fly over Syria, Russia will “own” it within 4 hours and any attempt to thwart Syria’s ability to use its air force for self=defense will be severely punished by Russia.
US-NATO may be a bunch of eerily inept self-deceivers, but they’re not stupid enough to hand Turkey’s or Israel’s air force (and air defense systems) to Putin on a plate. And that’s what the result of a NATO-sponsored no-fly zone over Syria WILL be.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 29 2014 12:22 utc | 115

Mina 111 and also Pirouz_2
Mina, I confess I hoped you would say something else 🙂
Here your link again:
http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2014/03/28/la-transition-ne-commence-pas-apres-la-chute-de-bachar-al-assad_4391760_3218.html
plus a narrative to the background:
Remember Haitham Manaa and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coordination_Committee_for_Democratic_Change
the only elegible opposition force inside Syria except for the PYD in Rojava renouncing to participate in Geneva. Manaa said, being forced ultimatively by Kerry via Robert Ford to abandon having an own voice and mandate the Washington / Riad stooge he retracted. But that was only half the truth, because this was foreseeable. Why then had he participated in the preparations?
Well, simply because he had believed in Lavrov vaguely promising Geneva should and would be “inclusive”. And after Manaa was in, they let him down and the State Department / CIA it’s will.
Similar with PYD and it’s speaker Salih Muslim. But the pathway was different with the PYD, because this revolutionaries don’t nourish illusions about Russian aims and purposes in the ME and Salih Muslim being not a politician with high personal ambitions, like Manaa.
As you will know the stooges reject kurdish self-determination in Syria, like the west did in Crimea, although PYD and its allies in the Supreme Kurdish Council didn’t ask or vote for independance, but for federational autonomy. But in this case the RF evades and circumvents the item.
So Muslim rejected Geneva in case there would not be an independent delegation of the SC. Lavrov tried to catch Muslim like he did with Manaa, but Muslim refused and asked to be received in Washington directly. He was not – and just in this same time FSA and Al Nusra – NOT ISIL!! – started a heavy offensive against Kurdish self- defense (YPG) all along the turkish border which was directly coordinated by MIT. I can prove this.
This way Muslim – who lost his son to this offensive – was coerced to accept “audience” with Lavrov who fed him his usual vage baits and in the end decided (as Musl im reports): “No, time is not yet ripe for an independent Kurd delegation, you have to stand back til the next round.”
You guess my point?
Now Radwan Ziadeh (who was kind of promoted in Geneva while the Ford / Bandar Bush stooge, forgot his name, was sacked) comes up with this “transition before the fall of Damaskus”.
One has to remind, the bloody nerdy pragmatic Assad told Al Akhbar-reporters in a casual interview that he accepts the partition of Syria as it is for the moment being. He said: “Daraa region is now beyond our accoutability, it’s Jordan which is in charge there for now.” We can conlude it’s similar for the North, the Northeast and most of the region Deir Ezzor (in fact Iraki armed forces tried to intervene at the border but were repelled and distracted to Falludja)
So this “bloody transition before the transition”-talking leaves the factual partition as it is with the exception of Damaskus and its countryside!
Therefore I said it was genodidal talk beyond the rhetoric.
It’s still hard for me to write in english and costs me a horrible amount of time, so I leave it at this point, hoping I gave enough hints, why in my opinion by far the most important information within the leaked audios are the references to Qatar!

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 12:50 utc | 116

I can’t see where we differ. Even your English sucks just as much as mine.
I’ll drop by your blog more often and we can continue the mumbo-jumbo.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 29 2014 13:06 utc | 117

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 8:50:12 AM | 115
This here is the latest BBC map of the conflict. I guess they count the YPG as opposition – they aren’t – this here is the Wikipedia summary of the ISIL/Nusra against Kurds fight.
There are no Geneva negotiations, just everybody waiting for Assad to win.
The funds have not dried up yet though, so people still get paid for what they are saying and doing.
The funding will end when there is an agreement with Iran.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 13:20 utc | 118

Oh, here it is – cooperation between FSA and YPG
How come Turkey continues to give cover to ISIL?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 13:33 utc | 119

Mina @ 111: Thanks for the good synopsis. Your English is fine.

Posted by: ben | Mar 29 2014 13:57 utc | 120

is US behind the turkish false flag?
‘But the YouTube posts that resulted in the massive video sharing website being blocked in Turkey had little to do with the prime minister cavorting with mistresses or accepting bribes.
Instead, it was a recording of a meeting in Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu’s office which included intelligence chief Hakan Fidan, army deputy chief of staff Yasar Guler, and Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu.
In the meeting, the four discuss conducting a false flag attack–blamed on Al Qaeda–in order to justify war with Syria.
The conversation revealed that John Kerry had been pressing Davutoglu to strike Syria.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287823/-Updated-Turkey-Planned-Fake-Al-Qaeda-Attack-in-Syria-to-Justify-Invasion#

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 14:03 utc | 121

Aleksandr Kalinin @ aleksiskander 1h
Resident in # Donetsk – we want to be with # Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmF4nEyySSg&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 14:35 utc | 122

Mina@111, nice post, thanks.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 29 2014 14:41 utc | 123

@89
Srsly, dude? You tell people who are skeptical of the nonsensical horseshit Snowden story to read an article written by someone who is now one of those bought-off stabled whores – sorry, journos (chortle) – employed by the billionaire Omiydar who helped fund the fascist Ukrainian coup?
I think this site would be more your calibre.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 29 2014 15:04 utc | 124

@Rowan – Can you suggest books on the same topic by different sources?
The books are about an important subject the United States relationship with the remnants of Nazi power. You agree this is an important subject? If so, if the the version they offer is somehow furthers the agenda of zionism, then certainly there must be other scholars who have looked into the same subject and provided a non-biased look.
In any case, you must also be able to give some very broad outlines – obviously having some familiarity with the authors or their work – about what makes them purveyors of the “heavy-duty, professional, inside-track Zionist versions of modern history.” I’m curious as to what that is, broadly.
Otherwise you are just doing some accusatory sleight of hand to get people to lose interest in a very important subject before even investigating it. And that is certainly a heavy-duty thing to do.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29 2014 15:53 utc | 125

somebody | Mar 29, 2014 9:33:31 AM | 119
I know Wladimir van Wilgenburg very well. He personally participated in the eviction of YPG’s from Al Safirah, Sheik Maqsoud and another quarter of Aleppo I forgot the name of. Wilgenburg propagated several false flag attacks which led to SAA-bombardements of SAA of Kurdish quarters, checkpoints and stronghouses, taking them between three frontlines. Main actor on the mercenary side was Ahrar al Sham – indeed this might have been their “journeyman’s piece” – which to this time was counted “islamist” against “secularist” FSA. But indeed – as you probably know – Ahrar al Sham coordinated with FSA (to which it later officially allied) and this coordination was done in Turkey.
The article you link to was published June 7, the date, when the delegation of Muslim was on it’s way to Moscow:
http://www.mesop.de/2013/06/09/salih-muslim-pyd-in-moscow/

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 16:46 utc | 126

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 12:46:34 PM | 126
I assume if he sues you can prove what you are saying. The date you give however is clearly inaccurate as the article dates from
March 27, 2014

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 17:12 utc | 127

following on from Demian at 100. (OT of course.)
Muzychko was a thug. He was under mandate for arrest for several common-law crimes and infractions.
The police report he was killed in a shoot-out. Others that he was found dead handcuffed in the back. Yarosh thru a spokesman claims that Russia has established a list of 7 Pravy Sektor types to be annihilated, justification: war crimes in Chechnya.
local color: Pravy Sektor occupies a floor at the Hotel Dniepnr, and a large part of the Central Post Office on or close to Maidan. They have set up a training center in the underground floor – martial arts and shooting. (And is now as we know a Pol Party in association with other groups.)
> from Swiss Press
Pravy Sektor claims the ‘assassination’ was allowed or coordinated by the Minister of the Interior, Avakov. A big wheel in “The Fatherland” party (Yulia and later in a deal between Yulia and Yats) and in the Gvmt since 2012.
Imho, shows:
1) r giap references above though I haven’t read them all yes, absolutely, yet the opportunistic nature of such groups plays a huge role, they will jump into any power vacuum
2) ad-hoc alliances in ‘failed states’ soon start to eat each other up: Yulia, Yats, Avakov, and Pravy Sektor (to mention only those) were all ostensibly on board for the latest ‘revolution’… and Avakov’s latest press release says he wants rebels to ‘join in facing down Russia’..
Btw, accordin’ to wiki, Avakov was on the Interpol wanted list and detained in Italy. That apparently was sorted out by the Ukr. parliament? Idk anything about that.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 29 2014 17:21 utc | 128

plus 127) The Kurdish leader you mention now is in Norway – same info on YPG fighting ISIL/ISIS March this year.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 18:14 utc | 129

somebody | Mar 29, 2014 1:12:03 PM | 127
Okay, I didn’t read more than the title and there was this Picture dated June 7. But that’s the point, the events I told about were ca. Feb. until May 2013.
Btw. Wilgenburg now has another job. His reports are still selective but not to an unusual amount, and his facts seem to be overall correct.
And he can’t sue, because I wouldn’t claim he knew about the nature of the operations he wrote about in “Rudaw” or participated on purpose.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 18:53 utc | 130

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 2:53:33 PM | 130
I don’t claim do know anything about Kurdish politics and its intricacies. But from a brief look it seems like Turkey might not be on the same page as the US, actually might be at the same page as Syria, on the Kurdish question.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 19:05 utc | 131

@130 @131 – re kurdish question. my very limited understanding of this is the kurds would like to have an area that runs thru iraq, syria and turkey.. of course turkey and syria are opposed to this, while the kurds have been encouraged thanks to usa/israel war on iraq. the usa/israel tag team would like nothing better then to get the kurds to cause havoc in syria and turkey as it serves their ‘divide and conquer’ interests.

Posted by: james | Mar 29 2014 19:11 utc | 132

Posted by: james | Mar 29, 2014 3:11:41 PM | 132
That is my understanding. As areas in Syria near Turkey are mixed Arab/Kurdish Kurds seem to have formed three cantons they are trying to connect.
This would be neither in the interest of Turkey nor of Syria as the final outcome.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 19:21 utc | 133

JS
Yeah I do, because she is not bought off and her material is not favorable to “libertarian conspiracy.”

Posted by: truthbetold | Mar 29 2014 20:00 utc | 134

#132 / #133
Thats cheap propaganda anybody can refute with a relatively short Google-research. The PKK only recently followed the social revolutionary (in german “sozialrevolutionär”) Agenda of PYD, renouncing a national revolutionary (“nationalrevolutionäres”), separatistic program, following the aspirations of the last two kurdish generations of Kurds. While Iraki Kurdistan is ruled by a mafia that is fiercly opposed to both, armed skirmishes inclusive.
But thats not the topic here, the topic is Russia siding with the turkish terror- and attrition war on Syria since Nov./ Dez. 2011 when Turkey gave them the licence for South Stream for literally ZERO. That is to consider when talking about room and scope of turkish ambitions today.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 20:00 utc | 135

135) ?? Map of Nabucco versus South Stream
South Stream, Turkey ?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 20:17 utc | 136

somebody | Mar 29, 2014 4:17:54 PM | 136
Yes, for geological reasons (I assume) South Stream has to cross turkish territorial ground of the Black Sea.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 20:35 utc | 137

somebody | Mar 29, 2014 4:17:54 PM | 136
Well, perhaps that changes now, with Crimea being russian? Perhaps I’ll try to check it tomorrow.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 20:39 utc | 138

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 4:39:28 PM | 138
Don’t bother, South Stream does not run through Turkey.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 20:43 utc | 139

south steam agreement with russia and turkey – http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a.TM4QijmIMk
and this with translation below http://kommersant.ru/doc/1847418
Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at a meeting with the Minister of energy and natural resources of Turkey Yildiz Tanerom thanked the Turkish Government for issuing a final permit for the construction of South stream in the exclusive economic zone of the country. The document was signed today in Ankara Turkish Energy Minister and representatives from Gazprom. The parties also agreed on long-term contracts to supply gas to 2021, 2025.
In addition, the Deputy Chairman of the gas giant Alexander Medvedev said that Gazprom would not abandon the South stream if we can reach an agreement on the management of the gas transportation system (GTS) of Ukraine. “Even if we count the Nord Stream, South stream, Nabucco, CNG shortage still count (of gas supplies to Europe-ed.) — 15-20 billion (cubic meters-ed.), “said Mr Medvedev.
Responding to a question about the route of South stream, “the Deputy Chairman of the Russian gas holding company did not rule out that the gas pipeline will pass through the North of Italy, but finally determined the route at the time of making an investment decision on the project.
The “South stream” pristroât Zavod
Delayed for six months Turkey has given Russia permission to strip of its territory of the South Stream gas pipeline, but only a preliminary
Recall gas pipeline South stream, “which would link Russia to southern European countries, is planned to be built by 2015. At the end of last year, the project was halted due to Turkey, which demanded the results of seismic survey route a pipe will be laid. In the project as shareholders are Gazprom, Italy’s Eni, France’s EdF, German BASF.

Posted by: james | Mar 29 2014 20:53 utc | 140

Posted by: james | Mar 29, 2014 4:53:04 PM | 140
Thanks! From Wikipedia

Because of the Russia–Ukraine gas disputes, the pipeline is routed through Turkey’s waters to avoid the exclusive economic zone of Ukraine

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 21:18 utc | 141

somebody | Mar 29, 2014 5:18:43 PM | 141
Oh, you’re welcome

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29 2014 21:25 utc | 142

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 5:25:20 PM | 142
:-)) more South Stream – in German
Translation: South Stream pipeline project might get less expensive – 10 billion dollars could be saved by shortening the line via Crimea

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29 2014 21:29 utc | 143

Turkey will do some kind of investigation. Busted!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/29/turkey-election-idUSL5N0MQ07320140329

Posted by: notlurking | Mar 29 2014 21:53 utc | 144

New Video: Bombshell: Turkey-Syria False Flag Leak YET Media Suppression!
USA Today runs a report which downplays what is a very dramatic story of Turkish officials conspiring to carry out a war crime! First of all, Reuters whitewashes what is in fact a crime, it is a war crime to attack another country like this but Reuters, like much of mass media, is in the business of selling wars so they don’t like to that point out. Second, this is such an over the top evil plot yet Reuters reports it matter of faculty as if it is acceptable! And the opening sentence says “as an excuse to wage war on Turkey” when I think it should say “on Syria.” See this video on the media trend of suppression and downplaying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btNnBoV3D1A&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dTkI6NkaRy-dJso1lHQyv3-

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 30 2014 5:03 utc | 145

143) more South Stream – Bulgaria will be pipeline country, right?
Now this

March 29 (BTA) – US Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland will visit Bulgaria on March 31, said the Office of the Spokesperson of the US State Department. The media note said: “Nuland will meet with senior Bulgarian government officials to discuss bilateral and regional issues, including our shared commitment to transatlantic values as members of NATO, the development of our economic partnership, and Bulgaria’s energy diversification efforts.

She is up against this

It is not in Bulgaria’s interest to stand firmly behind EU sanctions against Russia, according to the Foreign Minister Kristian Vigenin.
“At the moment Bulgaria has no alternative for deliveries of gas. Whatever stance we take from here on (regarding Russia), we must keep this in mind”, Vigenin told Darik Radio.
“It is not worth taking a clear position for or against potential EU sanctions against Russia”, the Foreign Minister added.
Vigenin outlined that even many of the EU member states are cautious about major sanctions against Russia. He noted the importance of acting rationally in the current crisis, rather than emotionally.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30 2014 10:36 utc | 146