Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 28, 2014

Media Neglect Turkish False Flag Attack Leak And Its Implications

Some more thoughts on the leaked tape from a meeting in the Turkish foreign ministry which is only very selectively reported in "western" media. A video with recorded voices and English text is available as is the seemingly complete text in two parts.

The setting of the recording is this:

The voices of the illegal recording believed to belong to Davutoğlu, National Intelligence Organization (MİT) Hakan Fidan, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu, and Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Gürel. According to the information obtained from sources, the recording consists of a chat between four officials in Davutoğlu’s office before the commencement of the official meeting with the participation of more civil and military bureaucrats in another room at the Foreign Ministry.

It is not clear when exactly the meeting happened. It would fit the situation late last year or early 2014.

The major points from my view:

  • Turkey has delivered 2,000 trucks of weapons and ammunition to the insurgents in Syria.
  • There are plans for false flag attacks on Turkey or Turkish property to justify an attack from Turkey on Syria.
  • The Turkish military has great concerns going into and fighting Syria.
  • The general atmosphere between these deciders is one of indecisiveness. Everyone seems to be unclear what Erdogan wants and is waiting for clear orders from above.
  • U.S. military has shortly before the meeting presented fresh plans for a no-fly one over Syria.

Then there is the fact in itself that this tape and others leaked. Internal government communication in Turkey and personal communication of Turkish official has been thoroughly compromised. This will hinder future decision making and will erode any trust Turkish government allies may have in it.

It is somewhat astonishing how "western" media avoid the content of the leaked tape. An AP report on it makes a lot of the youtube blocking the Turkish government ordered in reaction to the tape. Of the recording itself the AP only mentions this:

The four are allegedly heard discussing a military intervention in neighboring Syria, a sensitive political issue in Turkey, although the context of the conversation is not clear.

The Washington Post filed that AP report under Technology. This is an incredible disservice to its readers.

The Guardian report based on Reuters is not any better:

The move by the TIB came hours after an anonymous YouTube account posted a leaked audio recording allegedly of a confidential conversation between Turkish intelligence chief Hakan Fidan, foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu, undersecretary of the foreign ministry Feridun Sinirlioglu and deputy chief of the general staff, Yasar Gürel, discussing possible military action in Syria.

There is no mentioning at all of the false flag attack. The Wall Street Journal comes somewhat nearer to the truth:

... a leaked recording published anonymously on the platform purported to reveal a conversation in which Turkey's foreign minister, spy chief and a top general appear to discuss how to create a pretext for a possible Turkish attack within Syria.

For once kudos to the NYT which at least touches one point but leaves out the other important ones:

... the officials were heard discussing a plot to establish a justification for military strikes in Syria. One option that is said to have been discussed was orchestrating an attack on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah ...

German media did not do any better.

A NATO ally is planning a false flag attack on its own territory which would implicate NATO Article 5 and other NATO countries' forces and the media do not even touch the issue? This is ludicrous.

Related to the Syria issue is another thinly sourced trial balloon, the tenth or so, by the unofficial CIA spokesperson David Ignatius in the Washington Post:

The Obama administration, stung by reversals in Ukraine and Syria, appears to have decided to expand its covert program of training and assistance for the Syrian opposition, deepening U.S. involvement in that brutal and stalemated civil war.
Details of the plan were still being debated Thursday, but its likely outlines were described by knowledgeable officials: ...

It follows the list of issues that have been discussed on and on over the last three years, more CIA training for insurgents in Jordan, more weapons, maybe some MANPADs. Ignatius source is here seems to be the CIA friends in the Syrian opposition:

The expanded program would “send a clear message to the Assad regime that there is no military solution to the struggle,” according to a March memo to the White House from the opposition. Assad “has no incentive to talk” now, the memo argued, because he thinks he is winning.

The rationale, bluntly stated, is that to reach an eventual diplomatic settlement in Syria, it is necessary now to escalate the conflict militarily. This has been a hard pill for Obama to swallow, but prodded by the Saudis, he seems to have reached that point.

There are so many caveats in here - "appears to have decided", 2still being debated", "seems to have reached that point" - that I do not believe a word of it. The loudly announced, by Ignatius and others, attack on south Syria has yet to appear and the halfhearted attack by the Turkish supported Jihadists in the north seems to be stuck.

I do not anticipate any bigger action by Turkey or the U.S. especially as the such action right now would likely lead to harsher reaction by Russia.

Posted by b on March 28, 2014 at 10:34 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Nice work and a great piece of sleuthing, b.
And keeping in mind that the Yankees and their NATO allies are as weak as piss and twice as yellow. your last sentence sums up the buffoonery in a nutshell:

"I do not anticipate any bigger action by Turkey or the U.S. especially as the such action right now would likely lead to harsher reaction by Russia."

That makes two of us.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 28 2014 11:34 utc | 1

I do not anticipate any bigger action by Turkey or the U.S. especially as the such action right now would likely lead to harsher reaction by Russia.

And maybe to make sure of this was another intention of the leak in addition to being a pretext for shutting down youtube.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 11:46 utc | 2

Perhaps someone (Pirouz_2?) would like to paraphrase this one:

I completly disagree with b.

Turkey has delivered 2,000 trucks of weapons and ammunition to the insurgents in Syria.

Old stuff of 2013 all of the informed public knows.

There are plans for false flag attacks on Turkey or Turkish property to justify an attack from Turkey on Syria.

There have been dozens of the kind mentioned (4 guys firing rockets / artillery grenades) in the last 2,8 years, routine manoeuvres to get a headline, not even in the international press, but domestic. They are meant to exhibit power (NATO approval) and resolution to mute local resistance, specially in the border provinces, to the overtly turkish / CIA coordinated low intensity war on Syria, with Robert Ford (who resigned some weeks before!) all over the places and the MIT - Special Forces threatening on gun-point border and provincial military police which recently tried two or three times to intercept trucks and convoys full of arms and ammunition delivered. All this went with big Headlines all over the turkish press!

And there ist no "attack from Turkey on Syria" at all mentioned! But an attack on Syrian territory on jihadis, the MSM put it perfectly right.
They even informed the Syrian authorities in advance, both overtly and covertly.

The one thing that is in it: They want to pass it, sell it with headlines "attack on Syria". They would be compromised, if Syria just keeps shtum. Because then the ISIL could sell it as an attack not only on them but on jihad in Syria alltogether.

That's the only conclusion making sense, since they are talking about going in and out. Why talking about pulling out of a deep incursion that is meant to last or being advanced when it's even still not decided?

The Turkish military has great concerns going into and fighting Syria.

No. They are talking about an assault detachment covered by some tanks, even not of an battalion. They are concerned it could be annihilated by the jihadis if there is no air cover.

The general atmosphere between these deciders is one of indecisiveness. Everyone seems to be unclear what Erdogan wants and is waiting for clear orders from above.

No. Erdogans mandate was perfectly clear, but the participants are puzzled what the mission behind the mission would be. Dep. Foreign Ministry says "domestic" - and none objects. But they aren't sure. Then Davutoglu says Kerry demanded, they eventually at last fuckin' should act against the jihadis and there were even a no - fly in the pipeline. This reassures them, but in respect to what E. might be up to, because it's perfectly clear, that the no - fly wouldn't be declared to cover "Tombstone".
So the no-fly is for a wider scenario that is up to come:

U.S. military has shortly before the meeting presented fresh plans for a no-fly one over Syria.

See above.

So the southern offensive will come and I have pounds of evidents for that, but for the moment I give you just one. The blabla of Ignatius is also old stuff.
Look at Obamas press conference with "King playstation" Abdullah II of Jordan 2/14/14:

But we’re also going to have to solve the underlying problem -- a regime led by Bashar al-Assad ... We are going to need a political transition in that region.
And we’re going to continue to strategize on how we can effectively change the calculus inside the country so that we can have a Syria that is intact ... We don’t expect to solve this any time in the short term, so there are going to be some immediate steps that we have to take to help the humanitarian situation there. There will be some intermediate steps ... to apply more pressure to the Assad regime.

And more precise with Joe Biden:

The Vice President and the King agreed on the urgent need for greater humanitarian access inside Syria

Well, btw:

Frederic Hof, Feltmans allegiance, was allowed to the Atlantic Council FEBRUARY 27, 2014 with:
Syria: Time To Review the Bidding

wherein is said:

"The stakes in Syria are enormous: Assad, his confederates, and his external supporters are demonstrating to political criminals the world over that literally nothing is beyond the pale when it comes to targeting civilians: not even localized genocide. Assad, his confederates, his external supporters, and other bad actors are learning the wrong lesson: the civilized world is powerless to stop the most outrageous of depredations. Getting Syria right should, given the nature of the challenge, trump rhetorical gamesmanship."

An unmistakable hint at Ukraine!
Those guys knew what was to come!

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 11:50 utc | 3

A NATO ally is planning a false flag attack on its own territory which would implicate NATO Article 5 and other NATO countries' forces and the media do not even touch the issue? This is ludicrous.

Absolutely. Home run. Like a child's birthday wish, if you say it out loud, it won't come true.

"Discussing Syria" was about the most that I got from scouring the news last night. Why was there no detail? A France 24 correspondent, Jasper Mortimer, went so far as saying that one might sympathise with the position to ban Youtube, given that sensitive information had been leaked. Are you kidding me?

Never forget the cacophony of noise from the media orchestra banging their war drums last August. That desire is still simmering.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Mar 28 2014 12:13 utc | 4

Nope, the exact date of the meeting is clear: 13th March.

Posted by: Erman | Mar 28 2014 12:13 utc | 5

The US and western media is now acting precisely as the Soviet media was portrayed - lying by omission.

Always bad, since the Ukraine coup started they have been abominable. They seem to be in full-on war mode. The self-censorship has rarely been more obvious.

They do the whole world a great disservice. The lurch towards what could turn out to be conflict on a global scale is occurring with the most important aspects hidden from the public.


Posted by: guest77 | Mar 28 2014 12:25 utc | 6

Even less reported was the Ashton/Estonian FM leak about the snipers. Around me, no one had heard about it, even as recently as a few days ago.

Some here will suspect the Russian FSB behind this

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 12:37 utc | 7

And talking about unreported events, what about Obama today in KSA (and yesterday in the Vatican, the seculars in Europe will appreciate the symbol)

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 12:45 utc | 8

And again more recently the Tymoshenko leak. Because legitimising Russian fears that they will be persecuted by a new Nationalist regime would justify Putin's "phoney pretext" on Crimea.

Now we can't have that, can we.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Mar 28 2014 12:52 utc | 9

I second this - from Hürriyet

However, the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) said both the content of conversation and its leak was “fateful.”

“The top brass’s plans for Syria are fatal, and the leaking of these conversations due to a security weakness is an open failure,” MHP deputy Şefket Çetin said on March 28.

The AKP is afraid of the local election results and therefore wants to cover up corruption allegations by creating an “atmosphere of war,” Çetin said, adding that the government’s banning of YouTube after blocking Twitter had nothing to do with protecting state secrets.

Though I suspect the MHP is close to fascist.

I guess in this case international media is right not to be the AKP bandwagon.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 12:54 utc | 10

efe kerem sozeri @efekerem – 9 h
#Turkey's renowned diplomacy columnist @MuratYetkin2 writes that the #Syria leak was recorded on 13 Mar 2014 in #MFA Ankara şokta: Gizli Suriye toplantısı dinlenmiş

Posted by: Oui | Mar 28 2014 13:09 utc | 11

Main opposition leader Kemal Kilicdaroglu this month warned that Erdogan "could decide to move the army into Syria before the elections" and cautioned the military against it, saying: "Don't send Turkey on an adventure."

Read more:

Puts pressure on Erdogan not to join a southern offensive until Sept. 2014.
I don't know which amount of pressure, but it adds to other determinants. And Turkey would have an hardly dispensable role in a no-fly that would be needed for a big incursion into the south.

I don't think of NSA, Mossad or FSB at the origin of the leak. Russia would be well served with Assad exiled in a "Alavite"-Dwarf-state at the coast. It has pocketed the whole of Gaz to find there in advance and would keep Tartus.
It would also suit Netanyahu, leaving in all likelihood the rest of Syria as stateless provinces, with the exception of those southern parts occupied by Israel and Jordan as "safety zones".
And no pipeline to distub the circles of Gazprom.

No, I think of the Syrian Mukhabarat resp. it's allies in Turkey. The guys that also helped out in the case of the bombings in Hatay. Or some clandestine Alevite group.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 13:10 utc | 12

efe kerem sozeri ‏@efekerem – 1 h
@MatthewKeysLive @TorEkelandPC ..and this is the complete English translation of it, with screenshots: ELECTION DRIVEN WAR PLANS – I :: v batu mulligan @castizbey

Posted by: Oui | Mar 28 2014 13:12 utc | 13

The modus operandi in most western msm is that if it doesn't fit the narrative, they won't even look at it let alone touch it..

Turkey's been promoted in the Arab/Muslim world as a model democracy that other Arab/Muslim states must follow..Exposing their true nature will only ruin the project - dammit!!!

At the moment, Erdogan's serving his role very well. False-flag opps, terrorism, assassinations etc etc are all acceptable now...

Posted by: Zico | Mar 28 2014 13:26 utc | 14

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28, 2014 9:10:41 AM | 12

I still think they did it themselves. They do not want to go to war, remember? They are business people. For war they would need the generals they do not like. And even the generals had managed to avoid most of World War II which cannot have been easy in this geographic position.

The guy who did the - almost finished according to China - Chinese missile deal got fired. Reason unknown.

But somehow the word cyber security is in this bit of news

NATO has strictly objected to the integration of the systems, saying it would not be possible to integrate the Chinese-built system with NATO and the U.S. systems due to cyber security threats. The company is also on a U.S. sanction list for violating the Syria, North Korea and Iran nonproliferation act.

According to Murad Bayar, Turkey’s top procurement official, Turkey selected the Chinese system because it was better than the rival bids in terms of “price, technology, local work share, technology transfer and credit-financing terms.”

Turkey has extended a deadline for rival bidding companies to submit their proposals until April 30.
Turkey announced its decision to negotiate with China’s Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp. (CPMIEC) to co-produce anti-ballistic missile systems last September.

It then extended the deadline to April 30, after firm statements from NATO and U.S. officials that the Chinese MD-2000’s would not be interoperable with the NATO defense architecture. Turkish leaders said the deal had yet to be finalized, and that Ankara remained open to new offers from the other two bidders.

So maybe the US was sending them a message. Or maybe he was responsible for the equipment in this Foreign Ministry room, too.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 14:22 utc | 15

Does anyone know where Mr P is these days? As in, another site?

Ignatius couldn't say the truth if his life depended on it.

Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 28 2014 14:23 utc | 16

It is somewhat astonishing how "western" media avoid the content of the leaked tape.


The fantastical, physical-law defying, common-sense raping, narrative "explaining" the nature of the false-flag event - i.e., 9/11 - that catalyzed the entire GWOT and the subsequent murder/maiming/displacement of millions of innocent people worldwide and which continues very much to this day vis a vis Syria etc. was hewed to - and still is to this day - by every single person in the Establishment - obviously, mediawhores included - and people are surprised that the Western media is NOT reporting anything resembling reality when one of America's whores continues down the same murderous path?

There are two major types of subspecies of war criminal minions in the Zionist Western Establishment: 1) witting dupes and 2) unwitting dupes but in either case it shouldn't deter people from recognizing that in either case if they happen to dribble out something resembling reality it was either an accident or a nefarious cog in a larger narrative.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 28 2014 14:40 utc | 17

Neither did Rumsfeld getting senile reached the MSM

Arming the Syrian opposition is on top of the agenda of O'Bomber's visit to KSA

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 14:44 utc | 18

@17 But the mechanics of it are intriguing. There must be an office somewhere, above editorial level, that decides on what the news will be for a particular day.

Posted by: dh | Mar 28 2014 14:52 utc | 19

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28, 2014 9:10:41 AM | 12

The Daily Star transcript is identical to the one published yesterday on Good Morning Turkey except that it also includes the original Turkish convos. I think it's pretty clear by now that the conversation was real but who, how and why is still up for grabs. MY own feeling is that it's part and parcel of some kind of internal power struggle going on.

What is outrageous (but par for the course) is how the western media has almost completely ignored the contents.

So what next?

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 14:57 utc | 20

Guest 77:

They seem to be in full-on war mode. The self-censorship has rarely been more obvious.... The lurch towards what could turn out to be conflict on a global scale is occurring with the most important aspects hidden from the public."

So true.


Yes it is.

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Mar 28 2014 15:20 utc | 21

When will someone do an in-depth article on the US history of backing the Ukrainian fascists (and the UK or Germany, too)? The documentary evidence is easy to find on line. Is it lazy researchers, or fear of swimming against the flood of imperialist war propaganda?

One could start with the National Archives own recent publication, "Hitler's Shadow: Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence, and the Cold War." Take a look at Chapter 5: "Collaborators: Allied Intelligence and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists." The CIA's own downloadable documents on the OUN and Lebed are also available easily for the most casual researcher at the CIA FOIA Reading Room online. Here: I'll do the search for you:

If I must do this myself, of course I will. But for various reasons my time is limited.

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Mar 28 2014 15:26 utc | 22

Posted by: dh | Mar 28, 2014 10:52:33 AM | 19

Simple, no specialists on Turkey in the newsroom, no Turkish speakers and not much interest from the public ...
But the - often broken - rule is not to report rumour.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 15:36 utc | 23

Go for it Jeff Kaye!

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 15:40 utc | 24


Yes, it is intriguing regarding the mechanics. An instructive guide is obviously to look at how successfully the Zionists have been in muzzling Westerners over the last 60 years in regards to the apartheid genocidal state of Israel. Part bribery, part subtle threats, the occasional public "drawing and quartering" of those who stray to close to certain red-lines, cynically playing upon people's hopes and general good-naturedness etc. all of these techniques and more employed day in day out create the officially "unacknowledged" rules of discourse in the Land of Freedom so that the "machine" almost runs on its own after a while as the rules become thoughtlessly habituated by the mindlessly ambitious "best and brightest" - i.e., next generation of avid gatekeepers. Just keep hammering the most nonsensical premises into the minds of the peons - e.g., Israel is America's greatest ally, OBL and 19 hijackers... - and - voila - once those horseshit premises have taken hold most of your work is done.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 28 2014 15:41 utc | 25

Strange that there is no protests by the turkish people against this, or have I missed something?
If turkey attacks i really hope syria respond this time, enough of this crazy regime.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28 2014 15:42 utc | 26

"I do not anticipate any bigger action by Turkey or the U.S. especially as the such action right now would likely lead to harsher reaction by Russia."


When a politician is fighting for his political life, he could care less about "Russia" - worry about that after the election.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 15:44 utc | 27

Syria can't attack because of NATO article 5 would be instantly invoked. NATO would hit Syria with everything handy. That's why Turkey's planning a false flag, to get Syria to respond. That's why I give some credence to Kerry references in the leaked conversation.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 15:52 utc | 28

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28, 2014 11:42:47 AM | 26

I hear, the imams in the mosques today preached against facebook and twitter. Social media is sinful.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 16:04 utc | 29

"It is somewhat astonishing how "western" media avoid the content of the leaked tape."

Is the sky blue on a clear day? You can take their lack of coverage as a given. It would be incredibly astonishing if they didn't ignore it. The info is damaging to the western polygarch interests. It lays out plans for an attack on Syria, based upon a false flag Turkey will create to justify it. It says the Americans are pushing for something like that and have the planning for a no-fly zone finished and ready, which will be implemented once the Turks attack. The western media have either ignored all the other recent damaging leaks or tried to discredit them when it was clear there had to be something reported. They ignored the fact Georgia had invaded South Ossetia, waiting till the Russians pushed the Georgians back out to then report the war as a Russian invasion of Georgia.

It can be reasonably assumed the western media is completely useless as a news source. Why even continue to pay attention to these serial propagandists? Plenty of others who do report news still.

What is in the leak is vastly more important than how the MSM doesn't cover it.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 28 2014 16:08 utc | 30

okie farmer

I guess you are right, however if turkey is the one that attack Syria, nato cant legally use that paragraph.


What about people on the streets, I mean there seems to be protests quite often in turkey but not now? Strange.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28 2014 16:12 utc | 31


Syria could certainly destroy whatever Turkey put into Syria. And the Russians would back them, both with support, such as satellites or electronic warfare, but also diplomatically.

Posted by: Ozawa | Mar 28 2014 16:23 utc | 32

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28, 2014 12:12:32 PM | 31

Why should they? Everybody is eating popcorn.

You think the twitter ban is working?

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 16:29 utc | 33

Agree Ozawa.

Anonymous, it doesn't matter who attacks first. Article 5 makes no distinctions about who starts the aggression - it simply requires NATO forces to defend any member no matter what.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 16:32 utc | 34

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28, 2014 12:32:26 PM | 34

Official war is so out of date, car bombs, militias ... I hear though that NATO is still partner in the war on terror, that would apply.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 16:38 utc | 35

Okie farmer

I think you are wrong, it is only for defense , but it doesnt matter for nato, since they break the law every time anyway.


I am thinking of the anti-erdogan protest people, shouldnt they protest?

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28 2014 16:48 utc | 36

"It is not clear when exactly the meeting happened. It would fit the situation late last year or early 2014."

The leak mentions Kerry was personally pushing on Ahmet Davutoglu to get things rolling.

"AD: He would say, you could not even defend your own land, we often talk in a friendly way with him, Kerry has said to me, have you yourselves decided about this, this attack, this…"

Kerry met with Davutoglu in Jan. 12 in Paris. Remarks With Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu After Their Meeting

At the end of that meeting:

"SECRETARY KERRY: And we’ll be meeting – we’ll be seeing each other in a few days.

FOREIGN MINISTER DAVUTOGLU: Yes, in a few days, and several telephone calls."

So they met later. A few days later, Kerry was in Kuwait discussing Syria. Details of Travel to Paris, Vatican City, and Kuwait City, January 11-15, 2014

The leak states:

"FS: Look, three days ago something has happened at the Chief of Army Staff, they have had a crisis coordination meeting. I saw him for the first time. The Americans
YG: No, we do it regularly!
FS: No, but the Americans have handed out the plans for the “no fly zone” at this meeting. For the first time in this meeting. Did you know about that?"

So it was likely the American military command in Turkey who handed the Turks the actual plans, and this appears to have happened after Davutoglu talked with Kerry.

Going by this info, and that the Turks did try and entice Syria to attack them just recently, I would guess the timing of the meeting leaked was after the middle of Jan. 14. It appears the Turks modified the ideas they discussed and decided upon a less intrusive attempt on Syria, probably hoping shooting down a jet and some shelling across the border would bring the wanted Syrian reaction. Something else seems to have happened at the border, a possible Turkish army incursion in support of terrorists there, but it is unclear. Whatever went on, it doesn't appear the Turks stayed around. This would seem to indicate the Turks went ahead with the provocation, but altered their plans to something less overtly war causing. This is really only just guessing.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 28 2014 17:05 utc | 37

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28, 2014 12:48:28 PM | 36

I guess, it is party rally time now. The leak had nothing in it they did not know before.

Russia Today's translation has an illuminating comment

Why are they (main stream media) not reporting the Turkish Government wanting to stage a false flag terror event to lead their Nation to war? Because the Youtube conversation cannot be verified as authentic, and raises the possiblity if the double reverse false flag.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 17:07 utc | 38

It is also possible the Turkish government found out there was going to be this leak and deliberately scaled back their provocations, possibly even after the operation started, due to the damaging info that would be exposed.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 28 2014 17:10 utc | 39

Anonymous, I could be wrong, but 'coming to the "defense" of any NATO ally' is exactly what 5 is about. But as somebody said, NATO will use ANY excuse if they want to attack - anyone!

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 17:13 utc | 40

@TomGard (#3)
I am not quite sure if I understand what you are trying to get at. In my opinion these leaked tapes are GREATLY IMPORTANT news. Never had Turkey before so openly and brazenly admitted into its criminal activity inside Syria. Essentially they are committing horrendous war crimes and now it is open on the records brazenly admitted by them.
As for the link you have provided, I will give a rough general translation; but personally I find both this article and the one from the “radikal newspaper” provided by a link in a tweet by “Efe Kerem Sozeri” which was mentioned by Oui as revolting.
Essentially both articles (ESPECIALLY the one by radikal newspaper) have taken the word “chutzpah” to new extremes by completely ignoring the “false flag” operation plans, outright lies that have been said to the Turkish public, and the activities by the Turkish government which unambiguously amount to unprovoked aggression against a sovereign state and war crimes; and instead focusing on the “scandal” that security and confidentiality of the “state” and “foreign office” have been compromised and then they ask now what? Next organization to be compromised is MIT? None of them bothers to ask the content of what was leaked, and how come the highest levels of the state are so busy with criminal activity and committing war crimes while they discuss how to lie to the Turkish public, but rather they are outraged by the fact that the jig is actually up!!! Probably there are other examples of such utter contempt for the public (essentially treating public as sub-humans) in the world but the only ones that I can recall right now and equal to this are the US governments attempts to catch and arrest E. Snowden and Iran’s reaction to the leaks made by Ahmadinejad regarding the corruption of Larijani family.
Anyway, as to the short summary translation of the milliyet article to which you linked:
Title of the Article: Turkish Military’s Plans Regarding [the tomb of] Suleyman Shah
In case the threats by ISIL are realized, Turkish Military has its extensive action plans ready. Three different plans are being mentioned. In case of a probable attack [on the tomb], as a first step the air force will attack determined targets. If that does not suffice units of land forces will get involved. The third phase would involve attack helicopters.
Turkey is passing through days tenser than it has ever experienced in its recent history. Both internally and externally. The shoot-down of a Syrian jet which violated the Turkish airspace happened in the midst of great tensions regarding the Sul. Shah shrine which is located 30KM inside Syria.
It is well known that the threats by ISIS regarding Sul Shah shrine, has approached the limits of the patience of the Turkish government in the past week….
Then the article gives a long “history”(!! ) of the threats by ISIS to Sul. Shah shrine. And also mentions that Turkey had taken precautions and measures of readiness before the threats had started. And then it gets to the explanation of the three phases of the detailed plan.
So it goes (in summary):
First in case of a possible attack by ISIS there will be an air attack on targets which have been predetermined long time ahead of the would-be attacks by ISIS. In fact according to the article the locations occupied by ISIS have been already determined.
If the air raids do not produce the desired results then in the second phase special force units of the land forces will be sent in by skorshy helicopter.
In the third phase in case that the first two phases do not produce the desired results Cobra helicopters will be sent in for “heavy intervention”.
The article mentiones that between 500-1000 ISIS militants are believed to be in the region.
Also exhibiting an unbelievable example of chutzpah –according to the article- Turkish military feels offended by the actions of the leader of CHP because he has apparently warned the Turkish joint chief of staff not to be a cheap tool for political gains and because of CHP has had the audacity to say the obvious fact that Syria is not a threat to Turkey!!

Posted by: pirouz_2 | Mar 28 2014 17:16 utc | 41

The Syrian SANA news service has an article connecting the leaked plans to the recent Turkish across it's border around Kassab in support of the terrorists. Posting the whole piece, instead of just a link, since access to SANA is intermittent.

Leaked recording shows Turkish officials discussing military aggression against Syria

Mar 27, 2014

Ankara, (SANA) A leaked recording has revealed Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and Turkish officials discussing a plan to launch a military aggression on Syria in coordination between Turkish intelligence and armed terrorist groups in Syria.

An anonymous YouTube account presents the recording as being of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu, and Deputy Chief of Staff Yasar Guler and other officials a possible military operation against Syria and, if needed, creating a trumped-up excuse to do so, in coordination between Turkish intelligence and terrorist groups operative in Syria.

The excuse, the recording reveals, might be directing limited military agreed on strikes on the Turkish territories or the tomb of Suleyman Shah in Aleppo countryside.

It can be construed from the recording that Turkey, through its intelligence apparatus, runs and directs several armed groups in Syria that it has so far provided with around 2,000 trailers of military assistance. The leaked audio tape shows Fidan as anticipating several implosions to ensue in Syria after a planned military operation starts because ''the borders are not controlled.''

Qatar is shown to have a role too, as Guler says that "Qatar is looking for ammos too, so let them pay in advance and we can provide them with it.''

The tape reveals Guler and Davutoglu as describing the armed militants in Syria as "an asset we can permanently use."

Also according to the audio tape, Fidan says ''we suggested sending a general to Syria, picked one and he did go there.''

Fidan is revealed in the recording as shrugging off as ''illogical'' a suggestion by Davutoglu to send tanks.

Erdogan's government is orchestrating an unprecedented military aggression against Syria in Kassab border area since last Saturday when Turkish tanks and artillery shelled the Syrian lands to provide a cover for armed terrorist groups to enter Syria from Turley.

Turkey bans YouTube after Syria talk leaked

Turkey has taken down YouTube on Thursday after it was used to spread damaging leaked audio files from a state security meeting that discussed possible military aggression in Syria.

Implicitly owning up to it, Erdogan said that the recording was related to a national security meeting and vowed to "punish" those behind the leaks.

"They have leaked something on YouTube today," he told a campaign rally in the southeastern province of Diyarbakir. "It was a meeting on our national security. It is a vile, cowardly, immoral act. We will go into their caves. Who are you serving by eavesdropping?"

M. Ismael

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 28 2014 17:24 utc | 42

Le Monde has an interview of Ziadeh with a title that has nothing to do with the contents. The title points nevertheless to obvious intents of partitioning the country on the side of the expat opposition. It might be that because of the elections in France, things were left in a standstill. The second tour of the elections is next sunday and the talk of the town is that Fabius will become prime minister. He would probably immediately poll of less than 20% approval, from what I can hear and read.

In parallel, Le Monde has an article giving a mild image of Svoboda, with no mention of their 5 ministers in the governement or of their neonazi affiliations.

Meet the North African djihadists who are fighting in Kassab

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 17:30 utc | 43

Does anyone know why Turkey has a shrine 30km INSIDE Syria?

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 17:34 utc | 44

I think you are close to it.
If it is as for the Nuland conversation, the publication of the leak will have no consequence on their ability to move forward. What will will come from elsewhere.

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 17:37 utc | 45

If my speculation that release of these leaks has prevented a more serious attack against Syria than what took place around Kassab is correct, then it appears the leakers were probably Syrian or Russian, with the CHP in Turkey using the leak for their reasons against Erdogan's people. This is consistent with Russian strategy and tactics where to try to prevent these actions from happening, rather than respond after the fact.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 28 2014 17:40 utc | 46

Has anybody considered the fact that the timing of the release of the conversation (March 13) is linked to NATO-inspired attack on Latakia and the commensurate attack in the Golan area (out of the NATO base in Jordan)? (see Tony Cartalucci's piece on this)

If it is, and I'm sure that it is, it would point to the Russians doing the eavesdropping, for surely these two attacks (by both Turkish and 'rebel' forces) was possibly the prelude to the false flag attack on the shrine?

That in forestalling the false flag attack, the Russians have taken the wind out of the sails of the imperialists' proxy war. Timing is everything.

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 17:45 utc | 47

Because the French gave it to Turkey in 1921, while Syria was under French mandate.
It is not even the real grave

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28 2014 17:50 utc | 48

Speaking on nato, now US have chosen norweigan Jens stoltenberg as the new leader for nato.
he seems to be as asslicking toward the US as Ban ky moon.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 28 2014 17:51 utc | 49

BTW, the BBC still has only published two, yes just two stories this week on its website (I referred to one yesterday) and only one of these referred to the leaked conversation. There is an almost total news blackout here in the corporate/state media.

This is how Channel 4 'News' (mis)informed its viewers/readers today 28 March:

YouTube was blocked on Thursday after an anonymous account posted what it presented as a recording of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing possible military operations in Syria with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Deputy Chief of Military Staff Yasar Guler, and others.

The conversation appears to revolve around a possible operation to secure the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman empire. The tomb is permanently guarded by Turkish special forces and is located in an area of northern Syria largely controlled by militant Islamists. - 'Turkey blocks Youtube'

And we wonder why our citizens are mute.

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 18:05 utc | 50

Not surprisingly, the BBC has carried just two stories on Turkey this week and only one on the conversation.

And this is how Channel 4 'news' (mis)informed its readers on the subject:

YouTube was blocked on Thursday after an anonymous account posted what it presented as a recording of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing possible military operations in Syria with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Deputy Chief of Military Staff Yasar Guler, and others.

The conversation appears to revolve around a possible operation to secure the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman empire. The tomb is permanently guarded by Turkish special forces and is located in an area of northern Syria largely controlled by militant Islamists. - 'Turkey blocks Youtube, Ch. 4 News Website

Is it any wonder our citizens are silent.

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 18:10 utc | 51

The dumbasses in Kosland and Hufferpuff are insisting it's just a bad translation and "all very confusing" wrt Kerry's involvement. Are they all retarded? I give up. Welcome to the future I guess.

Posted by: L Bean | Mar 28 2014 18:11 utc | 52

It is in German main stream media now FAZ has huge coverage including a video with German subtitles

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 18:15 utc | 53

Apologies for the double posting but the first one didn't show up until I'd posted the second one! Perhaps b can delete the second one please?

Posted by: William Bowles | Mar 28 2014 18:18 utc | 54

Posted by: Mina | Mar 28, 2014 1:50:02 PM | 48

FAZ comment section thinks it is about Syrian semi-independent Kurdish areas Turks are getting nervous about.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 18:34 utc | 55

French MSM, Fail.

Today they only write about the upcoming elections in Turkey, the blocking of YouTube and Twitter “because of pressure from the social media” and “corruption scandals” (no details) and “a possible operation in Syria” (4 words - l’Express.)

Libération is even worse, quote, “Erdogan says he is a victim of a plot formented by his ex-allies, that is the Brotherhood of Muslim preacher (prédicateur), Gulen.” - nothing more.

La Croix (sometimes better..): “Erdogan is trying to douse fires lit by anonymous internet leaks of embarrassing conversations” .. - Erdogan is fighting the plotters, an influential Imam - paraphrase.

Le Figaro does detail this story in a short paragraph but making light of it (in the direction of TomGard above at 3, from a corr. on the ground, maybe the only one?)


Le Monde (internet ed.) leads with Twitter but has 3 sentences at the bottom.

Getting boring, enough.

Olivier B. has collected the identical headlines of all the French print MSM on the Russian troops in Ukr. - 100,000 Russian soldiers massed at the border(s). Something to behold, even I was surprised. Just scroll down and look see..

The French Press is dead, finished, stick a fork in it. I remember the days when I used to on occasion defend an article from AFP when x / y was jeering about slant, cowardice and freedom fries. :) fun times :)

Almost all of French Press is owned by mega-corporations, such as the conglomerates of Lagardère, Bouygues, Dassault, Arnault, Bertelsman, and Vivendi-Universal, not exhaustive. (They also control the book market, magazines, and a good part of telecoms..! tv left aside for now), they are not just media magnates but industrialists and arms peddlers. Plus, the MSM print is quite heavily subsidized by the State.

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 28 2014 19:03 utc | 56

Quoting from the Wikipedia article on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah:

In accordance with Article 9 of the Treaty of Ankara (1921) signed between France and Turkey, the tomb "shall remain, with its appurtenances, the property of Turkey, who may appoint guardians for it and may hoist the Turkish flag there."

Interestingly, Wikipedia also has this to say:

On 20 March 2014, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant threatened to attack unless the Turkish troops were withdrawn within three days. The Turkish government then reiterated that any attack on the tomb would be treated as an attack on Turkish soil.

The source for the claim is this article in the Today's Zaman:

Erdoğan: Attacking tomb of Süleyman Şah means attacking Turkey

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), has threatened Turkey, according to recent press reports, and demanded in a YouTube video that Turkey lower its flag and withdraw within three days its troops protecting the site, which contains the grave of the grandfather of Osman I, the founder of the Ottoman Empire. The video was uploaded on March 20 but has since been removed by YouTube due to its threatening content

I do not know if ISIL really ever made these threats. They could as well be part of Erdogan's false flag. Note, that all this points to a March 13th timing for the tape.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 28 2014 19:07 utc | 57


Much like how the the intermittent hot flashes in the US/Zionist wars of aggression against hopelessly lesser-armed combatants are used by the war criminal PTB to - among other things - showcase their firepower and advanced weaponry for use in selling weapons abroad, the Turkey censoring highlights how truly massive, ingrained and effective the US propaganda system is compared to other countries and how other nations - I'm looking at you, EU - could benefit from the propaganda aegis of the US and its media minions if they would only drop trou and take it like good little pissants.

In the US, there's really no need whatsoever for the government to have to get all ham-handed and shut down YouTube or any other information source or platform b/c of the stated effectiveness of its massive propaganda system that has already turned the minds of most Americans et al in to mush. Anything even remotely threatening is just ignored or ridiculed by legions of propagandists of all flavors and there are other teams of professionals meant to spread so much disinformation that eventually said threats get buried and/or relegated to "conspiracy town". The horror.

Remember, "shock and awe" was not just for the innocent murdered Iraqis to suck on, it was to whet the appetite for US weapons for the like-minded war criminals around the globe. Israel does the same thing in Gaza from time to time and a recent documentary has some Israeli war criminal bragging about that very fact.

Just like the military "shock and awe" the ability of Western Zionist war criminals to evade any sense of justice and/or retribution must "shock and awe" other like-minded murderers around the globe into understanding their need to get themselves some Western Zionist "media consultants". Erdo clearly needed a consultant. Did he miss a payment? Not jump high enough or quick enough for his masters?

Hmmm, could - in the same vein - the Edward Snowden psyop have been "shock and awe" meant for the world's intelligence agencies and political leaders?

We'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 28 2014 19:16 utc | 58

@Jeff Kaye - #22 :: German BND intelligence operating with Gladio/CIA against Communism and the Soviet Union. I did some digging in past weeks and posted a summary with many links … [part 1]

Secrets Reveal CIA Covert Ties to Neo-Nazis
Ukraine Shooting a False-flag Operation?

Posted by: Oui | Mar 28 2014 19:25 utc | 59

thank you jeff kaye, for the material

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 28 2014 19:28 utc | 60

Mina #43

The title points nevertheless to obvious intents of partitioning the country on the side of the expat opposition.

Has the title been changed meanwhile? Now it reads:
"En Syrie, « la transition est sanglante, mais elle est en cours » "
An I don't grasp your impression or conclusion. Ziadeh produces the usual series of featherbrained lies whith the only "substance" being the imperial zionist mantra "THIS IS A SECTARIAN WAR" that Josua Landis follows like a knight without any intellectual self esteem left. And in the end there is announcement of genocide:

La Syrie se dirige vers deux scénarios possibles : soit le chaos total, qui est malheureusement le scénario le plus probable. Soit une reprise par Assad des zones libérées, ce qui est presque impossible. La transition est pour l’instant sanglante, personne ne peut dire quand ni comment elle se terminera, mais elle est déjà en cours.

Or would you object?

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 19:46 utc | 61

Jeff Kaye @22 Bad as the Fascists are in Ukraine, they don't equate to the organ eating Jihardis, who are equal opportunity killers, who regard anyone not like them, even some pious Sunni Muslims, as worthy of death, both groups of course supported by the exceptional nation or as I prefer to call them, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, the arrogant gob shites.

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 28 2014 19:56 utc | 62

they do not fall from the heavens

they are both tools of empire

their use has been an integral aspect to every empire's theatre of operation

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 28 2014 20:12 utc | 63

Lots of interesting tidbits. The controlled media's censorship/avoidance/bs is their immediate desperate tactic but it's just another nail in their coffin.

Assuming that the translation is ok:
Feridun Siniroğlu: “Our Prime Minister must give clear orders in this direction again….”

Then :F.S. “Tonight an order to launch attack has been already given….”

Implying that the attack order had not come formally from the P.M.? Or that the P.M. has been trumped?


YG: “We could not implement the decision, for various reasons we have been paralyzed, that is our concern, sir. The instruments of state are defunct at the moment”

AD responds: “I cannot accept this,….”

YG: Sir, you’re so right. [you scare me]

the no-fly zone. This implies escalation and a direct collision between Russia and US.

Feridun Siniroğlu: "There are some serious shifts in global and regional geopolitics. It now can spread to other places. You said it yourself today, and others agreed… We’re headed to a different game now."

What is this big change??

Engdahl offers food for thought, regarding Turkish shift away from ‘west’.

@19, 25 re: various media control means and mechanisms: Barrie Zwicker in his book Towers of Deception about the 9/11 media cover up, recounts his appearance on a Canadian radio talk show where he comments on the London Tube bombing false flag as the news on the bombing is just breaking. He offers a conjecture suggesting false flag, and the radio station immediately goes off the air.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Mar 28 2014 20:14 utc | 64

As I said before, I believe that this was done by the FSB. This is because (1) the response of the Turkish government to the leak makes clear that the recording is genuine. (2) Internal political Turkish opposition would never leak something like that, because it is just too embarrassing to Turkey as a nation. (3) This was a confidential policy discussion at the highest levels of government; it is unlikely that anyone but a top intelligence service would have the capability to intercept such a conversation. (4) The standard tradecraft is not to leak conversations that have been intercepted, because that reveals an intelligence agency's capabilities. I can't recall the NSA ever leaking the contents of something they intercepted. By making these leaks, the FSB is making the implicit point: the Turkish government is a bunch of jokers: they can't even keep highly sensitive conversations they have secure. Second, by releasing the conversation to the public, the FSB is implying that it does not think that the Turks are competent enough to take effective countermeasures to the interception of conversations in the future. (5) RT reported this in the same way as the Nuland "F*ck the EU" conversation and the EU diplomat conversation saying the Maidan snipers worked for the opposition: giving an extended transcript, little or no comment, and not bringing up who the source might be.

RF (the Russian Federation) is highly concerned about Western soft power in the form of propaganda/psy ops. Russian television regularly shows how Russia and its actions are portrayed in Western media. (Notice that Western broadcasters cannot do the same, because it would make the truth slip through, and thus undermine Western propaganda.) RF wants to counter the incessant, always on-message Western propaganda barrage. One way of doing that was setting up RT. Independent individuals like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden also undermine Western propaganda with their leaks. But RF leaks intercepted conversations between diplomats and government officials itself, for the same purpose, as we have seen, I believe, three times.

RF knows perfectly well by now how Western propaganda functions. Thus it has formulated a strategy to counter that propaganda. This is (1) having a platform that continuously provides a counternarrative to the current Western psy-ops narrative; (2) supporting that narrative with occasional leaks. Notice how the reason it is so easy to see the idea that the US was behind the coup in Kiev as simply a fact is that we heard Nuland discussing who would be in the new regime while the elected government was still in existence, with it not occurring to anyone that it would be violently overthrown. And the idea that the Maidan snipers worked for the opposition can't be dismissed off-hand as a conspiracy theory because we heard an Estonian (!) diplomat say as much, and we could tell by the tone of his voice that he really believed that.

People in this thread keep expressing surprise that the Western media are not reporting the content of the conversation between the Turkish officials. That is simply Western media taking countermeasures (a news blackout, in this case) to Russian countermeasures to Western psy-ops.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 28 2014 20:17 utc | 65

pirouz_2 #41

I apologize to importunate you, but I don't understand your agitation. To my knowledge hundreds of turkish nationals have been killed or captured by the SAA and at least dozens of them had ignored orders and kept their military ID's on them. In one alleged incident they showed up in Aleppo on four or five trucks, around 150 to 200 men. Even if that was a lie - any turk who isn't completly evasive to the war should know the turkish involvement.

And if now a "geopolitical shift" changes this insofar, as the turks main reason left for sending the scum in is to get rid of it (in my opinion thats the case since several month now), and the Syrians can't grip the turks by the ears and command them to forbear it, why shouldn't they make a fuss when the turks depollute their country at least of a portion of the scum they fostered? Because they likely would leave the corpses instead of carrying sanitary vans?

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 20:23 utc | 66

JSor, I don't know what you mean: "...Hmmm, could - in the same vein - the Edward Snowden psyop have been "shock and awe" meant for the world's intelligence agencies and political leaders?..."

It definitely occurred to me that Russia's eavesdropping ability has improved since Snowden got stranded in Russia. Of course, I'm attributing both Ukraine leaks and this Turkish leak to Russian surveillance, with no more proof than others. It is without doubt that Snowden could school Russian intelligence on at least a few things, and maybe some of importance.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 20:25 utc | 67

Correction, sorry: why should they make a fuss

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 20:25 utc | 68

Posted by: Demian | Mar 28, 2014 4:17:21 PM | 64

That's a bloody great post, buddy, way to go!

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 20:35 utc | 69

64) But they do report. This has been through all the main online German press now - without der Spiegel - but Zeit, FAZ, Süddeutsche with emphasis on the false flag (and the worry that NATO/Germany could be drawn into), translations, background, links to the video, transcripts. Germany has a huge Turkish community.

It is also in the Wall Street Journal now - with a twist

The emphasis here is on Turkey fighting ISIL/ISIS ie. fighting terrorism. Never mind false flag or Syrian sovereignty.

I do not feel Erdogan's people are unhappy about the "leak". They have the attack from outside now they needed, never mind it is cyber and the enemy is interior.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 28 2014 20:37 utc | 70

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Mar 28, 2014 11:26:52 AM | 22

To get to the root of it…to get to the root of anything––you must Follow The Money.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 28 2014 20:41 utc | 71

Demian@64: Well said. I think you're right. I think Russia has figured out an effective, asymmetric way to counter the Western media monopoly/information war. Part of that depends on a fertile blogosphere.

As for Western intervention in Syria, something is definitely being cooked up. What I find strange is why Obama thinks the political costs have lessened since last summer. There are a lot of different answers to that -- for one, Ukraine -- but the one that I think is operative here is a shift away from Assad to Al Qaeda. Last year the USG was on record (Kerry's congressional testimony at the time of Ghouta sarin attack) denying Nusra was a significant player. Now no one denies that Nusra and ISIS control broad swaths of northeastern Syria and western Iraq. Obama can use the existing 2001 AUMF against Terrorists to launch a unilateral strike on Syria.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 28 2014 21:06 utc | 72

- The news would fit a campaign/strategy to weaken Erdogan.
- But it seems others (CIA, .... ) are (hell) bent on action in Syria nad want to force Obama's hand to do something in Syria.
- No, Russia is (for the time being) "out of the picture" when it comes to having influence in Syria.
- One remarkable tid bit is that in spite of the US demonizing Russia John Kerry met Sergei Lavrov in The Hague in the fringes of the 2 day nuclear summit in the past week. Seems the US anti Russia stance isn't that extreme. Don't know what to make of it.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 28 2014 21:13 utc | 73


I don't want to go too OT so will be brief and maybe we can take it to an Open Thread:

It is without doubt that Snowden could school Russian intelligence on at least a few things, and maybe some of importance.

I don't believe this statement whatsoever in any way shape or form. To say that Snowden, his saturated media presence, his perfectly manicured demeanor/words, his fantastical back-story, his warmed-over "revelations" and his continued insistence that there are "responsible" journos in the West all point to him being - at least - an unwitting dupe/patsy who had smoke blown up his ass for a limited hangout op which would start a "debate" in the West that - much less than calling for the complete ending of all unconstitutional spying - will via Obama codify the increased powers of the NSA. And the suckers in the US will thank him for it.

In addition, like the military and propaganda versions of "shock and awe", the Snowden "revelations" were possibly - this was my conjecture - meant to give other world leaders a taste of what siding with the US would mean - especially as they may have been growing weary of all this cold-blooded murder and mayhem. They too - if they played their cards right - might a la the apartheid genocidal state of Israel get some access - or at least some benefits of that access to the advertised information treasure trove of secrets. Or - gulp - if they didn't agree would their entire private lives be open season for the NSA? Was the NSA bluffing? Isn't it safer to not rock the boat and be a compliant and well-paid bitch? Why, in addition, you could even clamp down on the Internet traffic running through your own country all in the name of - get this - protecting people from the evil NSA!!! Delightfully clever.

Unlimited defense and intelligence budgets can buy you a lot of impressive toys but you still have to advertise. Now, how to advertise that you can tap into any world leaders info stores etc etc? And that's the shit the NSA's telling everyone about.

Russia's no slouch and has had no reason to need to tell everyone what they are in fact capable of sigint-wise until recently forced by the psychotic US war criminals and their incessant murderous insanity. The Russians didn't need no two-bit patsy to help them out with anything but obviously the more they leak the better picture US intel has of their said capabilities - don't get too clever with proven murderous war criminals with unlimited budgets. On the flip-side, the Russians are doing some "advertising" of their own and I'm sure making some leaders think twice about all of the nonsense that the NSA fed everyone via the Snowden campaign and their capabilities which I'm sure included the term "full-spectrum dominance" or some such shit.

Again, a bunch of conjectures that need more data. Gotta run.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 28 2014 21:18 utc | 74

If the tape was recorded in the first months of this year then it would suggest that the US still wants to push Turkey into action of some sort in Syria.

Remember: According to Sibel Edmonds (Boiling Frost Post) the US ORDERED Turkey to prepare for an attack/action in Syria.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 28 2014 21:18 utc | 75

Don't know if anyone saw this one yet. Seems to be touching all the points in our previous links and discussion but with a different flavour.


Posted by: Alaric | Mar 28 2014 21:32 utc | 76

@44 Have you never heard of the 'Ottoman Empire'? Which was Turkish?

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 28 2014 21:34 utc | 77


jeff kaye

i would like to suggest to you
michael wildts the uncompromising generation
john erickson's two books in the russian defeat do fascism in the very greatest detail - place the role of collaborators within a larger framework - every bit as rigorous as raul hilberg - road to stalingrad & road to berlin

a book by mark aroons in australia which may be out of print - which covered the australian intelligence use & instrumentalisation of right wing ukrainians balts & other mostly eastern european muscle in the 1950's in the right wing catholics demolition of the communist party & other social organisations - with their Movement - that was fascist in every respect & helped to destroy civil society; the same was true in france

the american writer john loftus also details this & this basic fact that still remains true they were both ideologically committed but also common bandits

the modern takfiri is little different

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 28 2014 21:34 utc | 78

JSor, you might be right. Or not. I think Snowden was at the very least naïve, he apparently didn't have a plan (which goes with your theory it was a NSA psy/op) and appeared to be winging it once he got to Hong Kong. But if it was an NSA planned psy/op how could they have been so stupid to get him stranded in Russia? With all that knowledge? With those thumb drives?

Snowden's working now for an unidentified Russian IT outfit. He knows he can NEVER return to the States. He knows his future is in Russia. Why wouldn't he be working for Russian intelligence?

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 28 2014 21:43 utc | 79

@76 @44 Okie Farmer, I wrote the wrong empire. Apparently its the Seljuq emperors tomb, also Turkish.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 28 2014 21:48 utc | 80

pirouz_2 #41 again

I think you didn't understand what I wrote #3 because for you it's the "Empire" (or choose another name) against Syria and Russia and Iran. But it isn't that simple. Isn't it strange that so many people decline to believe any word of Empire-representatives, EXCEPT when they say: "We go for Syria, Russia, Iran"? Then they take any word literally.

I can't deploy the whole picture as I see it, so just one point. To aim at destroying Syria thoroughly, to kill as much people possible, leave no institution, no tradition, nothing intakt, in one word: create chaos, is utterly opposed not morally, but strategically to ousting the syrian despoty in a way, that leaves a stock for rebuilding a kind of order, preserve the state and giving away two provinces at most. So if there are such two factions, and I claim there is, although I pictured the front ideal-type like, there is a war within the war.

The information-snippets I put together in my post point to five and a half factions (and Syria, the prey, in the center), two in the US, one and a half in Russia, Turkey, Israel and Iran.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 21:48 utc | 81

The International Business Times claims to print the full transcript:

However, I don't see the Kerry thing, and the no-fly zone is missing. I'm not impressed.

Posted by: g_h | Mar 28 2014 21:54 utc | 82

Alaric | Mar 28, 2014 5:32:07 PM | 75

Of the intro from Strategic Culture:

"Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan sees any attack as an "opportunity" to increase troop presence in Syria"

statement based solely on conjecture, hence a simple lie.

Interestingly German TV (ZDF Tagesthemen) goes by the same simple fallacy to base all comment on it.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 28 2014 22:00 utc | 83

Ukraine: details of the training during in September in Poland (in Legionowo, Warsaw suburbs, police training center) of the snipers to be sent later to Maidan. This a polish weekly magazine, pro-socialist, actually anti-establishment, owned by former PR director of the polish regime in the 1980 (and a Jew). Usually reveals and comments on in very blatant, cynical, satirical, sometimes vulgar terms the corruption, scandals, hypocrisy, double-dealing, stupidity, weakness in all establishment circles. The whole piece available in print, probably available in polish centers in Western Europe. Automatic translation, sorry no time to translate myself. Tajemnica stanu, tajemnica Majdanu | NIE - dziennik cotygodniowy.

Ukrainian grimacing mouth only in a strange grimace. For the Polish came a year ago in search of work and prospects. I ended up on the illegal working ass off on site.
With difficulty I manage to control the laughter. Sitting in front of me a man mason certainly never was - hands are smooth like an unemployed pianist. And the sport is practiced may mini polo 3 goals, because moves with the grace of a tanker. What he says about others, but it is more interesting than what he says about himself.
According to his information, 86 militants then still prepared Euromaydan flew over the Vistula River in September 2013 at the invitation of the Polish Foreign Ministry.
The pretext was to be the start of cooperation between Warsaw University and the National Technical University in Kiev. The devil that some students from Ukraine did not have final exams, they had for it after 40 years - it's important that created the appearance. The last thing that anyone would be interested, visit the geeks behind the Bug River.
Instead of building the university, visitors from the East were by Vova transported to for three civilian buses to Legionowo. Here in the Police Training Centre , had to spend the next four weeks. According to what he writes on his website CSP is available is intended, inter alia, hall, specialist laboratories, a library, sports facilities, gym, stadium, swimming pool, shooting complex, cafeteria, buffet, two lecture halls with booths for simultaneous interpretation, forensic room for classes, as well as hotel facilities with satellite TV and the Internet. In short, everything you need to access an accelerated course of this explosive affair.
- Maybe I just looked for a cheap accommodation for foreign state guests? - I ask.
- Of course. MFA surveyed portals of hotels and this was the best offer!

Busy Day of the Jackal

Vova pulls the computer and shows me a series of documents, videos and photos from the training held here. Almost each bearing the same type of man: bald, tattooed thug in type murdered recently Sashka White with Right Sector. From the sweaty t-shirts can be seen tattooed with swastikas, eagles or runes. Between the "students" from the East scrolling in various poses men in balaclavas. This - he says Vova - Polish instructors. There are of course wearing any symbols indicating that they are representatives of our armed forces, but just look at the wall to see that the action takes place in Legionowo. The blocking of the large sign "Police Legionowo" or hanging on the wall a portrait of Chief of simply forgotten. Typical Polish poplin...
Ukrainians trained long and passionately. Day 1 and 2 - Accommodation, acclimatization and light exercise. Day 3 and 4 - Theoretical: crowd management, choice of target, tactics and leadership. Day 5 - Training of behavior in stressful situations. Day 6 - Free without the possibility of leaving the resort. Day 7 - Preclinical. Day 8 - Protection against irritating gases. Day 9 - Building barricades.
And so on, and on, for nearly 25 days. In real hits: repeatedly recurring classes at the shooting (including three with sniper rifles!), Tactical and practical training with the storming of the buildings, and even - pay attention! - Meeting with representatives of the Polish organization hooligan and patriotic.
- Did I get it? Legia hooligans or the Vistula and the extreme right-wing activists on the invitation of the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Ukrainian fascists learned how to make a riot! - I ask spitting a Coke.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 28 2014 22:25 utc | 84

remembererringgiap @77 - Thanks for the references. I have read the Loftus material. Right now I'm reading Steve Dorril's 'MI6' - lots of material in there on the Ukrainians, Hungarians etc. fascist movements, backed by the West, incl. Germany. Good documentation for those still claiming Bandera and Lebed and club were just nationalists opportunistically using Nazi backing. Uh, yeah. Tell that to the thousands of dead Jews, Poles, etc. all to make Ukraine racially "clean."

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Mar 28 2014 22:32 utc | 85

From Counterpunch: Ukraine: New Leaders, Same Oligarchs

The government is counting on the oligarchs to try to compensate for the failure of the state and almost total disappearance of its apparatus. It is trying to involve them in the defence against the “Russian threat”, given that a lasting conflict would be disastrous for their interests. [...]

Chains of command are unclear at all levels of the security forces. Central administrations, where new leaders have been appointed, are barely functioning: “As far as corruption is concerned, the prosecutor’s department is relying on the information that we journalists can provide, because the archives have disappeared,” said Anna Babinets. Since the Ukrainian army, according to interim president Oleksandr Turchynov, has just 6,000 combat-ready men, parliament has voted to establish a national guard. This force, which may incorporate nationalist extremists, including members of the far-right Pravyi Sektor (Right Sector), stands little chance of fulfilling security needs, but does risk fuelling the distrust of the people in the east. In Kharkiv on 14 March, Pravyi Sektor activists clashed with pro-Russians, with fatal consequences.

With the state apparently falling apart, the history of the “revolution” may already be a tale of missed opportunities. [...]

The people of eastern Ukraine might have joined those of western Ukraine in a single opposition movement against the oligarchs and corruption. But over-enthusiastic Ukrainian nationalism has turned off Russian-speakers in the east, and supporters of the former president talk of the “the fascist threat”. In just a few weeks, the manipulation of these fears and identity issues has brought the country to the verge of civil war.

Meanwhile, the IMF is going to give Ukraine a "Greece-like Depression".

Posted by: Demian | Mar 28 2014 22:59 utc | 86


First I must make a clarification: My agitation was not to you but to the two atricles one of which you had linked to, so no need for any apology.
This however, does not mean that I agree with you.

There is an old poem by a famous Iranian poet, its name is "the story of cat and mouse". It is about a cat who feels guilt pangs after devouring a mouse and goes to mosque to pray and ask for forgiveness. The more he prays the more he gets overwhelmed by emotion until he starts crying aloud and yelling that he had repented and would never ever harm a mouse again.
A naive mouse was in the corner of the mosque and hears his repentance. He gets over-excited and goes and gives the "good news" to the mice, that the mighty cat has repented and was swearing in the mosque that he would never ever devour a mouse again. Naive mice become extremely happy with this "good news" and to show their appreciation send 7 of the fattest mice with gifts of various sorts as "ambassadors of good will" to the mighty cat so that they can sign a peace treaty so to speak.
As soon as the the cat sees the fat mice, the nature kicks in and he attacks the mice and devours five of them with the remaining two to barely escape and give the horrible news called "reality" to the mice community....

Had Turkey repented as a result of the "geopolitical shift", it could always stop "polluting" rather than "depolluting" by stopping to discuss how they should actually further empower the "rebels" (whether by man-power as Mr. Davutoglu suggests, or by providing more ammunition as General Guler suggests).
If Turkey stops "polluting", in no time at all Syria will depollute its land on its own! "Polluters" never ever "depollute"! It is the moral of the story I just mentioned before.

However, very often people need to believe in the good news that "the cat has repented"! That is where the leaks of tapes like this become very important.
If even such a straight-forward conclusion (regarding the purpose of Turkey in doing an incursion into Syria) based on common sense is not beyond debate and does not seem self-evident to some then perhaps you will understand why I think that leaked tape of conversation between the four Turkish officials is so important: I would say that perhaps the "well known facts" -as you seem to imply that they are such- are not so well known and we need even more leaked tapes to prove the "obvious"?
Maybe we need a tape in which Erdogan goes on record and says openly that his main goal is not to fight AQ but to remove Assad and replace it with a Western friendly government?
Maybe then thanks to such a new tape some people who still think that Turkey is trying to "depollute" will finally realize that "polluters" never "depollute"? Because apparently not just the history of the Syrian war, but even the recently leaked tapes don't make the picture completely unambiguous?
But then again, even if Erdogan himself goes on record and admits to what I just said, there will be people who will in all likelihood say that that "tape" had no real significance and that "everyone" already knew it from long time ago that Erdogan was not after AQ but he was just trying to help Americans do a regime change in Syria!

At any rate the amount that we really do know is very small -extremely small- compared to what actually takes place behind the closed doors, that is why documents get archived by states as "classified" for long decades sometimes even for a century, and that is why such leaked tapes -even as infrequently as they surface- are so important as "documents of proof"!

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 28 2014 23:06 utc | 87

GLADIO, Bin Laden to Erdogan, Belhadj and Hamas: Mossad´s and NATO´s Dirty Underwear 2012.

...After the terrible events on board of the vessel, which were traumatizing for many, it must be even more traumatizing to learn that their courage and integrity has been cynically abused by the Turkish and Israeli intelligence services, NATO, and parts of the governments of Israel and Turkey...
Turkey and Israel may at times be adversaries in international and Middle East affairs, but none of these diplomatic differences could cover over the fact that Turkey is Israels closest ally in the Middle East. The alliance is in fact so sensitive, that the former FBI Language Specialist Sibel Edmonds had more gag orders put on her than any other citizen of the USA before her. The reason ? Sibel Edmonds uncovered not only facts that strongly indicated that the truth about 9/11 was covered up. Edmonds also discovered Turkish Israeli ties with respect to nuclear proliferation, arms trade, drugs trade and espionage. In fact, an attempt was made to recruit Edmonds into a Turkish Israeli Spy network that is operating in the USA and Globally, AIPAC (24) and The Turkish American Society (25) being the intelligence hubs inside the USA. In fact, Edmonds discovered that this arms, drugs, and nuclear technology dealing spy network was not only operating in the USA, but that she was gagged, fired, and subsequently kept silent about it when she reported the fact to her superiors at the FBI...
On 25 January 2012 nsnbc received information from a reliable Palestinian Intelligence Source, known to nsnbc. The Palestinian who is resident in Turkey, confirmed that an article, stating that Abdelhakim Belhadj had been on board the Mavi Marmara (27) was indeed correct. He also drew attention to the question how it could be that all of the persons that were murdered by Israeli troops on the Mavi Marmara were Turkish citizens. There were many people from many nationalities on board, the situation on board was chaotic. How, and particularly why would Israel target nine Turkish citizens ? Because the IDF troops had been well informed about the situation on board, and because nine members of the Muslim Brotherhood in Turkey, who were opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood´s involvement in the armed insurgency into Syria were ensnared into participating in a non-violent activity against Israel. The agent who co-ordinated the NATO / Mossad Operation was Abdelhakim Belhadj, who is now in charge of NATO´s training of the so called “Free Syrian Army“...

Turkey lifts veto on Israel’s NATO activities despite frictions

Syria, Turkey, Israel and a Greater Middle East Energy War

...Turkey’s Muslim Brotherhood-friendly Foreign Minister, the inscrutable Ahmet Davutoglu, is the government’s main architect of Turkey’s self-defeating strategy of toppling its former ally Bashar Al-Assad in Syria...
According to one report since 2006 under the government of Islamist Sunni Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his pro-Brotherhood AKP party, Turkey has become a new center for the Global Muslim Brotherhood [3]. A well-informed Istanbul source relates the report that before the last Turkish elections, Erdogan’s AKP received a “donation” of $10 billion from the Saudi monarchy, the heart of world jihadist Salafism under the strict fundamentalist cloak of Wahabism [4]. Since the 1950’s when the CIA brought leading members in exile of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood to Saudi Arabia there has been a fusion between the Saudi brand of Wahabism and the aggressive jihadist fundamentalism of the Brotherhood [5].

The Turkish response to the single Syrian mortar shell, which was met with an immediate Syrian apology for the incident, borders on a full-scale war between two nations which until last year were historically, culturally, economically and even in religious terms, closest of allies...

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 28 2014 23:08 utc | 88

@ProPeace interesting link. it seems the Polish and Baltic states have done the most belligerent rhetorical posturing, and if this transcript is any indication, much more besides. I am sitting just south of Poland, and our leaders here are battling an election campaign with one saying he'd argue against an article 5 engagement and the other saying he'd double down. The people seem fairly apathetic at best given the 20 percent or so turnout at the first ballot, but most "people on the street" seem to oppose this NATO annexation ploy, feeling it will backfire. The combined escalation attempts seem to be coming to the final confrontation. Nobody I talk to here seems to think that NATO has any idea what Russia is capable of. Hopefully Erdoghan and various EU puppet states can hold off from nuclear annihilation, but growing up next to the main Pacific nuclear sub base made me kinda blase about nuclear armageddon.

Posted by: Alaric | Mar 29 2014 0:29 utc | 89

The anti-Snowden conspiracy buffs should have really researched and continue researching an experts blog as the facts unfold.
It would save them a bunch of generalized hollow guesswork.

Posted by: truthbetold | Mar 29 2014 0:47 utc | 90

@ 70: Thanks for the link, think I'll Plagiarise the saying WWON,(world wide oligarch network) it fits.

Good article.

Posted by: ben | Mar 29 2014 0:58 utc | 91

The Counterpunch article @ 85, also good. Appears we have a commonality that is spanning the globe. The unabashed linking of mega-business and government. The architects of the "Global Plantations" are very happy.

Posted by: ben | Mar 29 2014 1:18 utc | 92

For the most part, American MSM not only has not been covering the full story, they aren't even asking the hard questions. The first questions related to Turkey/Syria were asked at the State presser on Thursday, March 20. The State spox said that she didn't have information. The specific questions switched to the Turkey/twitter angle for a few days. A lone reporter continued to ask vague questions about the tomb and recordings, but the spox continued to say that she had no comment about third hand allegations and besides, she doesn't speak Turkish. Yesterday, the questions finally got more specific, with more follow ups. But they still weren't asking the kind of questions that we're raising here.

Finally, today, the State presser began with a statement by the spox condemning the targeting of Syrian Armenians in Kessab. There was some follow up by reporters, but no challenge to statements that are clearly contrary to facts on the ground.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Mar 29 2014 1:22 utc | 93

According to Rebel Radio/TV (BBC) Anders Fogh Rassmussen is being 'retired' by NATO and will be replaced soon - presumably by someone who can sound even more like Hitler than Anders could.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 29 2014 1:35 utc | 94

turkey false flag

its not russia going to invade Ukraine ...which the 'international community' is ourtraged by,...its turkey going to invade Syria , over which they are silent

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 2:44 utc | 95

'The Turkish military has great concerns going into and fighting Syria.'

as did Egypt which is why Morsi was removed

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 2:51 utc | 96

'It is somewhat astonishing how "western" media avoid the content of the leaked tape. ;

not at all...they also did with Vici (Fuck the EU)Nuland leak and the Ashton leak

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 2:55 utc | 97

What am I missing here: Why does the Turkish military have "great concerns" over going into Syria? It seems to me that Assad has his hands utterly full just dealing with the existing international rebels, how in the world could he possibly take on an additional organized Turkish army? It seems to me that his resources would give out and the defense collapse, especially with a US or NATO no-fly zone, "legal" or not. Is it that Russia would step in against Turkey?

Posted by: Christopher | Mar 29 2014 3:11 utc | 98

Steiner ‏@Steiner1776 15h
"Society needs protection against extremism in times of colored revolutions" - #Putin #Russia #Ukraine … Agree 100%

Posted by: brian | Mar 29 2014 3:34 utc | 99

Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat

Right Sector activists blocked the parliament (Rada) building in Kiev on Thursday night and smashed windows.

They blamed the interior minister for the killing of a Right Sector leader. [...]

At a parliament session on Friday, Mr Turchynov, called the Right Sector rally outside parliament "an attempt to destabilise the situation in Ukraine, in the very heart of Ukraine - Kiev. That is precisely the task that the Russian Federation's political leadership is giving to its special services".

Right Sector activists are furious over the death of Oleksandr Muzychko, better known as Sashko Bily, one of their leaders. The interior ministry said he died on Monday night in a shoot-out with police in a cafe in Rivne in western Ukraine.

A member of the far-right group in Rivne threatened revenge for the killing of Mr Muzychko.

"We will avenge ourselves on [Interior Minister] Arsen Avakov for the death of our brother. The shooting of Sashko Bily is a contract killing ordered by the minister," Right Sector member Roman Koval was quoted as saying by the Ukrayinska Pravda website.

The Right Sector played a prominent role in the Kiev protests - and the clashes with police - which led to the removal of Mr Yanukovych from power. Its main support base is in western Ukraine.

'We are watching you', protesters warn Ukraine's new leaders

"We will stay here until the authority becomes normal and not corrupt, until everything becomes okay," insists Roman, 23, who is among the die-hard protesters still living in the tents covering the Maidan square and an adjoining boulevard. [...]

"Maidan will only win when we see significant changes".

He and other youths in varying states of military dress mill about smoking between the tents, where the acrid smell of fires permeates the air, while some ladle out soup for the needy: the weary routine of a not-yet finished revolution.

The tinderbox atmosphere that took hold here when protests first began in November over ousted president Viktor Yanukovych's decision to reject closer ties with the EU in favour of old master Russia, has given way to one of an extended camping trip.

But as Ukraine gears up for snap polls on May 25, the protesters are staying put until they see the changes they fought for.

"I am going to be here until the end, until the presidential election on May 25. We don't trust anyone... we are just watching them," Sergiy, a 31-year-old actor from Odessa told AFP.

"It is necessary to show the new authority that we are here, and we control them. We want them to remember that they were elected by Maidan, it is their responsibility."

I guess teh Maidan protestors haven't figured out yet that the IMF is going to run the economy, which is what Yats has said all along. (1) It will be interesting to see (1) if elections will be held in May; (2) if there will be new Maidan protests in response to the elections; (3) if force will be used to disperse the protestors and shut down Maidan for good.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29 2014 4:29 utc | 100

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