Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 23, 2014

George F. Kennan's Prediction On NATO Expansion Was Right

After the U.S./EU/NATO supported coup in Kiev Russia took steps to secure its vital seaport at Sevastopol on the Crimea. With their plans to use Sevastopol for themselves and to thereby blockade Russia from influence in the Mediterranean stopped by the Russian move various reactionaries immediately demand an expansion of NATO to somehow stop further "Russian aggression":

[T]he US should work with its allies in NATO to build consensus for an immediate announcement by the alliance that NATO membership will be extended to Montenegro and Macedonia and make the commitment to a Membership Action Plan for Georgia at the NATO summit in Cardiff.

These people invert cause and effect. Russia reacted like it did because of NATO's expansion since the late 1990. Such a reaction was utterly foreseeable and was foreseen when the very first NATO expansion towards the East happened.

George Kennan was the U.S. diplomat and Russia specialist who developed the cold war strategy of containment of the Soviet Union, though he later criticized its militaristic implementation. In 1998, when the Senate voted to extend NATO to include Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, Kennan was asked to comment. He responded:

"I think it is the beginning of a new cold war," said Mr. Kennan from his Princeton home. "I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever."
...
"It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are -- but this is just wrong."

NATO expansion and the putsch in Kiev are, as Kennan predicted, the reason that Russia acts as decisive as it does. A harsh Russian reaction because of NATO extension is NOT a good reason to extend NATO further. The Russian (and Chinese) reaction to that would likely be even harsher. No one serious should wish back the times when nuclear war often looked imminent. Luckily neither the public in the U.S. nor in the EU is willing to go that way.

Posted by b on March 23, 2014 at 17:12 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Fascists are always opportunistic and have no set ideology, they just drop a strategy quickly and move on to one that works better for them. We have seen the old tricks before, but this drama pragma is a real operation, folks. No more the stringers, the disaffected, the nihilistic kids, that come (for pay or not) to distract a community, and play havoc on the threads. You are witnessing a real operation at work.

Posted by: Copeland | Mar 24 2014 2:25 utc | 101

Demian

That's because Obama is a DINO (Democrat In Name Only). Clinton likewise. Also Carter. Elizabeth Warren is the only one I can think of who might not be, and she's mighty mum on foreign policy. Both sides of the aisle are all either bought and paid for or terrified into submission. And the few that did speak out paid for it mightily while Ron Paul probably retired so Rand's obiesance to the Zio-Cons wouldn't get tarnished by his refusal to toe their line.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 2:34 utc | 102

Lordy, these hasbara hall monitors are tiresome.

It's really a pain to start reading, discover it's more of the same and keep scrolling by until there's someone decent to read.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 2:36 utc | 103

@101 Wait Copeland, are you calling Pragma some kind of fascist disinfo agent or some shit?

Im confused.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 2:44 utc | 104

@102

Nora, theyre not DINO's, they ARE democrats.

THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS LIKE THAT. What 'Democrat in Name Only'? All Democrats have been like this since the 70s.

Theyre Leftists in Name Only, but they are most DEFINITELY democrats.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 2:45 utc | 105

So R'Giap and Copeland are 'bots' ?

Utterly pathetic and puerile.

The 'sum' of the relentless, disruptive posts of the true 'bots' is nothing more than drivel ... without reason or insight.

They are temporarily here, as always, merely to vomit, piss and shit on the floor, all the while issuing insults and seeking to sow division.

The posts are sausage factory fed into this blog, as always, in times of strife for the Empire.

They purposefully collectively post their shit to seek to have MoA labelled as 'Jew-Baiters', to diminish MoAs reach, credibility and thoughtful participation. All in vain.

They should be pitied for their submission of their humanity to the 'old gray men' ... and ignored with the total contempt they deserve.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 24 2014 2:47 utc | 106

Massinissa,

Yup. My language was sloppy but I guess so was a bit of my thinking. I've been so focused on the DLC but it's the whole party, and they are what they are. Open Housing scared any Leftishness right out of them, plus James Kilpatrick (properly?) denigrating the Liberal brand. So yeah, the fact that Democrats sell out and cave in is a feature, not a bug. Otoh, the current crop of Rethug office-holders are insane and significantly stupider than the average American, if that's even possible.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 2:54 utc | 107

you are right outraged & copeland

a real little operation

each time moon extends it reach because of the rigor of analyis bt b - there are those ready to dismantle it

the elections in iran are the last time i remember it at this level of intensit, georgia too if my meory serves me well & pretty well evet time b with his scientist knowledge has been weeks ahead of others on material that b has a specialist connaissance - but every time he opens up one of their lies - there is the attack of the swarm, as always with the same thing repeated again a again & again. much as you said outraged, a sausage factory

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 24 2014 2:54 utc | 108

more like baltic fishwives

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 24 2014 3:05 utc | 109

So we dare not deprecate Jews but Latvians are fair game?

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 3:15 utc | 110

I'm not sure which is worse. Zionist Jewish people or fascist leaning non-Jewish people. Both are far more represented in "democratic" western governments than talent, demographics or common sense suggest they should be in a democratic society, and both seem to be often allies.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 24 2014 3:25 utc | 111

scalawag # 114

james over at the Saker had a very good comment today:

"The thing is that both these parties to this orgy of destruction are violent supremacists. And this supremacism springs ultimately from psychopathy. Supremicismm IS psychopathy."

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 3:28 utc | 112

a bit more:

"Psychopaths will willingly join forces to devour a common victim for so long as the feast lasts, each party believing that they will get the lions share of the deal. "

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 3:29 utc | 113

@111

I know whats worse: Christian Zionists.

Theres more of them than Jewish Zionists, and by god theyre usually crazier.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 3:59 utc | 114

@110

Latvians dont have a lobby in Washington.

When Latvians get something like AIPAC, RGiap may start caring.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 4:00 utc | 115

Nora

In my opinion, what most people fail to recognize is that capitalism is based upon mass psychopathy. Quite literally. The root is feeding on others, and the more capitalist the society, the closer those other people being eaten are to the eater, and the greater the level of psychopathy among the culture needed to hold it together. Naturally, philosophies, and religions, and even bogus science, are needed to justify the feeding habits. More extreme feeding habits requiring more distancing from humanity and more reliance upon escapist fantasy. So is also a sense of superiority over the victims (such as Jewish zionism, "master races" and the related "bell curve" regurgitation of 19th century bigotry that's popular among the far right). Feasting upon an equal is considered uncouth. It can also take the psychopathy too far to where societal cohesion breaks down completely.

This is what was such a culture shock for many Native Americans, and often still is.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 24 2014 4:16 utc | 116

@24 Nora

I.e., the fairly substantial Jewish voice for Civil Rights got real quiet once academia and various neighborhoods and professions no longer limited their entry.

That's because they're exclusively tribal; the concept of universality exasperates them.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 4:46 utc | 117

Just to let people know that there are Americans other than the ones at MoA who get it:

Yes, Putin appealed to Russian nostalgia, albeit not for a lost empire or the Leninist project but for a country that didn’t have a rapidly shrinking birth rate, didn’t have a reeling drunk at its head, and didn’t allow a rising class of oligarchs to steal the nation blind. [Russian liberal ex-pat] Gessen’s hate for her own country doesn’t allow her to see this: she sees only a "catastrophe," never acknowledging that the corruption of the Yeltsin years was the real catastrophe. She views Russia only in relation to the US government: before Putin, Russia was "friendly" and "de-escalating." Yeltsin knew his place. Putin, who refused to accept subordination to Washington’s diktat, was a Hitler in the making. And now he’s on the march...

Posted by: Demian | Mar 24 2014 4:46 utc | 118

Top 10 jobs that most likely to attract psychopaths

"Dutton claims the professions that seem to have the most psychopaths are:

1. Chief executive officer
2. Lawyer
3. Media (Television/Radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergy person
9. Chef
10. Civil servant"

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_22/Top-10-jobs-that-most-likely-to-attract-psychopaths-0065/

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 24 2014 4:47 utc | 119

@91 Nora

You discern well.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 4:51 utc | 120

@102 Nora

You're a breath of fresh air after what I've endured on the Kaplan thread with Copeland, r'giap and TomGuard...Zionist hubris in spades! Way too much sh*t to shovel.

Anyway, don't you miss Kucinich? The only voice of reason in Congress.

I love some of the things Ron Paul had to say as well; but the Zionist gang tore into him like vultures over those "letters". I'm not liking Rand so much; he got a little too cozy with Zionists.

Everywhere you look, we're screwed. Zionists have it sewn up on both sides, but I'm still going to fight their tyranny.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 5:11 utc | 121

Ah yes, the rhetorical battle for hearts and minds continues, and even amps up, here at MoA. Copeland and r'giap are long time posters here, and as such, have a history of objectivity and fairness to all.

Zionists, and the state of Israel are committing gross evils in the world, but, are not the complete driving force, some here believe. They are but tools of the modern day Globalists,
pro corporate thugs, who wish to commoditize everything and everyone on the planet. They are the real evil. The "Global Plantation" is their goal.

Posted by: ben | Mar 24 2014 5:14 utc | 122

Confirmed: Canada 2011 polls fraudulent

Europe IS a colony, terrorized into submission by NATO's GLADIO network. It's a colony of the City of London/British Crown/Rothschild Empire - US, UK, Israhell, Canada, Australia, Saudis, all those countries ARE their colonies playing specifically assigned role in their global military / political / economic / ethnic / terrorist / financial / energy matrix.
US is the main muscle. Israel / Saudis (wahhabis have jewish/british intelligence roots) create the ME hot spot. Israel also holds many countries hostage because of the NUCLEAR BLACKMAIL (read Jim Stone), Europe's threatened in particular by SAMSON OPTION.

They have very, very sinister bioweapon research sites in Eastern Europe... Do you know where the Spanish flu *really* originated? The swine variety in the 70. started there too?

It's very simple who's at the helm - look the top of the list of the world's wealthiest people EVER and now. During current times we've been witnessing one of the biggest upward transfers of wealth in human history. There are weird cases of virus diseases developing now in Europe and other countries...

Read Carrol Quigley about Round Tables, RIIA, Chatham House, Cecil Rhodes...

But Chinese are coming with a vengeance, they NEVER forget, not the opium wars, not the avian flu, nor other suffering...

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 24 2014 5:15 utc | 123

@119

... Chefs? Wut?

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 5:15 utc | 124

@121

Ron Paul is a libertarian pretending to be a Republican.

Rand Paul is a Republican pretending to be a Libertarian...

I dont respect Ron Pauls economic policy positions, but almost all of his foreign policy positions are absolutely 100% commendable. Makes up for his almost laughable economic ideas very much IMO. At this point I almost dont care if USAs economy goes belly up as long as we stop terrorizing the world.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 5:19 utc | 125

@116

Scalawag, its a culture shock for me, and I was goddamn born here for gods sakes... And it still bloody shocks me.

You would think I would be used to it by now, but...

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 5:20 utc | 126

@ Massinissa @ 125: Yes, I'll second your comments.

Posted by: ben | Mar 24 2014 5:24 utc | 127

Majority of Germans recognize accession of Crimea

Funny comment:

when will we bring democracy to Germany? As Merkel was elected, according to Merkel, the only way to take her out is to hire Klitschko and Yatsenyuk and their mercenaries. No joke, 50 Euros a day to Maidan thugs could do it.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 24 2014 5:33 utc | 128

' A harsh Russian reaction because of NATO extension is NOT a good reason to extend NATO further. '

I think it depends on whether you want war or not. There has always been a camp in the US pushing war, even nuclear war, thinking they could 'win' it. Obama seems sympathetic to them. Not that he's in charge, but they've relied upon the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate's not standing in their way - in any way - and he's not disappointed them.

' Luckily neither the public in the U.S. nor in the EU is willing to go that way. '

Is that true ? German Green Party campaigns for war.

Posted by: john francis lee | Mar 24 2014 5:34 utc | 129

Re: Yatsenyuk meetings with EU and Obama - look carefully at the body language on the photos. There is conspicuous reservation towards Yats, what Obama shows is clearly disdain IMHO.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 24 2014 5:34 utc | 130

Think of Russia not as the bear but the bull. (I've decided to adopt Mr. Pragma's quirky zabbreviations, by the way) Zato, zeu and zusa are provoking, prodding, cornering and shaking that red cape with a concealed sword waiting for Russia to rush forward and impale itself. Ain't gonna happen. What is gonna happen is their worst nightmare. Putin's going to make what they consider unholy alliances and he's going to veto his way to their jugular at the Security Council. They won't be able to put anything through anymore.

Sidenote: Speaking of bears. Anyone see the Sochi games closing with that cute giant bear mascot blowing out the flame and shedding a tear? I have to confess; I turned to jello and started blubbering uncontrollably after that.

That's why I'm a warrior in every other way; gotta protect that inner child.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 5:37 utc | 131

@125

Ron Paul is right about the Fed. It'a a secretive, corrupt organization that should be torn down or turned into a museum.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 5:43 utc | 132

@130

Are you still projecting some hopes on him? Haven't you suffered enough?

Obama's a fraud; a bottomless pit of disappointment; who's still not finished letting everyone down. Can he disappoint and fool more than he's already done? You betcha! He's that revolting. I'm waiting for his final act.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 5:48 utc | 133

@132

I think we need some kind of national bank though. Its pretty much impossible to have a capitalist country without a national bank.

But we need a national bank thats beholden to the government instead of beholden to private banks.

The Fed was created by the banks, for the banks.

The government is corrupt but its better to have them deal with fiscal policy than the collection of self serving bankers from the banking industry running the fed. And you know, it would be nice if the government could create its own money instead of BORROWING THE CREATED MONEY FROM THE FED. Such a goddamn stupid scheme...

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 5:51 utc | 134

@132 part 2 So in short yes, I do agree with the Destroy the Fed part. The problem is though, is that something will need to replace it.

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24 2014 5:53 utc | 135

@122 ben

r'giap are long time posters here, and as such, have a history of objectivity and fairness to all.

Oh yeah real objective those two... *eyerolllll*

corporate thugs
...hmmm, real specific. But those who hold the bulk of the shares in those corporations, and have the last word, live in Wall Street's ivory towers.


Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 6:00 utc | 136

Ukraine's right wing and Klitschko's party call for civil war in Ukraine

Andriy Parubiy, the head of Ukraine's Security and National Defense Council, warned Ukrainians on March 23 that pro-Russian extremists are working in eight southeastern oblasts to stir up trouble as a likely pretext for Russia's invasion of the mainland.

...

Andriy Parubiy, the head of Ukraine's Security and National Defense Council, warned Ukrainians on March 23 that pro-Russian extremists are working in eight southeastern oblasts to stir up trouble as a likely pretext for Russia's invasion of the mainland.

Parubiy made the comment as thousands of people gathered for a rally on Kyiv's Independence Square as fears mount of a Russian invasion of Ukraine's southeastern provinces after the Kremlin moved quickly to annex the Crimean peninsula.

Parubiy recounted the start of the EuroMaidan Revolution on Nov. 21 that took three months to topple Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. It was triggered by Yanukovych's refusal to sign a political and trade association agreement with the European Union, a version of which interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk signed on March 21 in Brussels with EU leaders.

"At that time we knew that Yanukovych wants to sell us out to Putin," Parubiy said. "The Russian president can’t accept that Ukraine has an independent foreign policy ... Only a few believed in our victory, but we did it with our courageous people. Ukraine will never be a Russian colony. We should mention how we defeated Yanukovych and his riot police. Now, we need to unite against Russian troops that stand near Ukrainian borders from Chernihiv to Donetsk. They have more military forces than Ukraine, but Yanukovych had more riot police."

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 6:03 utc | 137

Ukraine's right wing and Klitschko's party call for civil war in Ukraine

Andriy Parubiy, the head of Ukraine's Security and National Defense Council, warned Ukrainians on March 23 that pro-Russian extremists are working in eight southeastern oblasts to stir up trouble as a likely pretext for Russia's invasion of the mainland.

...

Andriy Parubiy, the head of Ukraine's Security and National Defense Council, warned Ukrainians on March 23 that pro-Russian extremists are working in eight southeastern oblasts to stir up trouble as a likely pretext for Russia's invasion of the mainland.

Parubiy made the comment as thousands of people gathered for a rally on Kyiv's Independence Square as fears mount of a Russian invasion of Ukraine's southeastern provinces after the Kremlin moved quickly to annex the Crimean peninsula.

Parubiy recounted the start of the EuroMaidan Revolution on Nov. 21 that took three months to topple Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. It was triggered by Yanukovych's refusal to sign a political and trade association agreement with the European Union, a version of which interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk signed on March 21 in Brussels with EU leaders.

"At that time we knew that Yanukovych wants to sell us out to Putin," Parubiy said. "The Russian president can’t accept that Ukraine has an independent foreign policy ... Only a few believed in our victory, but we did it with our courageous people. Ukraine will never be a Russian colony. We should mention how we defeated Yanukovych and his riot police. Now, we need to unite against Russian troops that stand near Ukrainian borders from Chernihiv to Donetsk. They have more military forces than Ukraine, but Yanukovych had more riot police."

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 6:03 utc | 138

@135

U.S. Treasury?

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 6:18 utc | 139

Insulting r'giap is the same as insulting longtime MOA readers.You arrogant newbies are beneath contempt.

Posted by: turpentine moan | Mar 24 2014 6:32 utc | 140


@Demian #31 and others reflecting on Canada's positions

Obviously Ukrainian canadians are more anti Russian than others (than those having chosen Russia for a start!) most came to Anti-Russia, they wanted Canada to be anti-Russia. to be fair, others were socialists and contributed too (fought spanish civil war, founded communist party...). Look into it, it's quite interesting, I read the saga of Father Josephat Jean (a flexible christian fanatic: he took ruthenian vows to save those poor catholic Ukrainians from being Russian orthodox. it is big and weird. a small country is shaped by individuals and their views. Ukraine and Canada were and are)


@Mark #73

Nice and valid generalization on use of words.

@Pragma #96

Not to comment personal attacks might be wise but don't feel like you have to stick to your word, these answers of yours are lovely in their own way.

and Kalithea #121

too bad you're not a psychopath, you'd love all the attention you're getting from you know who. ;-) as massinissa this s*it isn't always clear. in any case know I'm shoveling it with you!

Posted by: emmanuelle | Mar 24 2014 6:40 utc | 141

The ex-US ambassador to Russia - fully involved in Russian politics

with some self awareness - but not much

But there are two important differences that weaken our hand. First, the United States does not have the same moral authority as it did in the last century. As ambassador, I found it difficult to defend our commitment to sovereignty and international law when asked by Russians, “What about Iraq?” Some current practices of American democracy also do not inspire observers abroad. To win this new conflict, we must restore the United States as a model.

;-)) let's see us how you do that. Go, confront the NSA.

But yes, the pivot now is off - China is safe.

Second, Mr. Putin’s Russia has no real allies. We must keep it that way. Nurturing Chinese distance from a revisionist Russia is especially important, as is fostering the independence of states in Central Asia and the Caucasus.


Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 6:45 utc | 142

offtopic, but picking up at #142's last paragraph:

I was wondering about russian-chinese relations in mid- or long term. I know there have been border conflicts after ww2 about siberian territories. Maybe the russian commenters here have a feeling about this. Is this still an issue that may lead to future discord, has this been on a mutual agenda in talks? How's the chance of these countries to live peacefully in the face of growing american aggression?

Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 24 2014 7:11 utc | 143

129) According to polls yes. On Russia, Germans oppose the statements of their elected government. Not necessarily because of love of Russians - there is a lot of prejudice, but because of good business relations, hate of war and rejection of the financing of Ukraine. And because the fascist components of the "Kyiv government" have become apparent. And because they realize that it was a putsch.

Large parts of the Green Party have gone the "transatlantic" route - they support all the liberal life style values, the "freedom", and they mainly see the autocratic nationalist ruler in Putin.
And they love demonstrations and go there regularly.

The programme of Social Democrats promotes good relations with Russia and that would be the position of their membership. Steinmeier has hardly said anything on the issue though when he said something he toed the Western line.

It is Angela Merkel who has the huge problem as her party represents the "Mittelstand" business community - smaller to medium sized business - and I suspect a few do good business with Russia.

She also has modernized her party in terms of acceptance of different lifestyles, liberalism and immigration alienating a few.

So a National Front, FPÖ anti-European, pro Putin conservative party has a good chance in Germany.

As far as possible, Ukraine is taken from the pages of the German press now, it is too toxic.

Everybody will be publicly hand wringing when civil war breaks out in Ukraine. Who would have thought.

What does not really get reported on are the huge demonstrations and the very real local separatism in Europe - in Italy, in Spain, in Britain.

The new cold war might be accompanied by the disintegration of Europe.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 7:16 utc | 144

#142:

We did not seek this confrontation. This new era crept up on us, because we did not fully win the Cold War. Communism faded, the Soviet Union disappeared and Russian power diminished. But the collapse of the Soviet order did not lead smoothly to a transition to democracy and markets inside Russia, or Russia’s integration into the West.

Translation: Russia's surrender to the Empire was not absolute and unconditional.

A revisionist autocratic leader instigated this new confrontation. We did not.

No, of course not. The US did not break its promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO, and Victoria Nuland didn't discuss the overthrow of the Ukrainian government with the US ambassador to the Ukraine, the purpose of which was to get the Ukraine into NATO, to place US missiles there.

Also, similar to the last century, the ideological struggle between autocracy and democracy has returned to Europe. Because democratic institutions never fully took root in Russia, this battle never fully disappeared.

Whereas they fully took root in the Ukraine, where the elected government was overthrown by a violent fascist coup.

And, as before, the current regime must be isolated.

So, the Russian government is a regime now? I thought the US reserved that word for countries it is about to bomb.

Mr. Putin’s Russia has no real allies. We must keep it that way. Nurturing Chinese distance from a revisionist Russia is especially important

What does "revisionist" mean here? The only thing I can think of is that the US understanding, produced by Yeltsin, was that with the end of the Cold War, Russia had submitted to the US absolutely, and that that was history set in stone, so that now that Russia is standing up for its national interests, Putin is engaging in historical revisionism.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 24 2014 7:26 utc | 145

143) It is not off topic - the test of Russian Chinese cooperation is in Afghanistan

Is trilateral China India Russia Cooperation in Afghanistan possible

Attempts to isolate Russia will be counterproductive - India

and there is this interesting bit

The EU imposed an arms embargo on China in 1989 over Beijing's crackdown on dissidents, thus cutting it off from direct transfers of weapons and defence technologies.

But China's military modernisation has made it less dependent on foreign arms.

There is a strong push in Ukraine to join the EU, and if it does, it might have to drop its arms trade with China to conform with the EU embargo.

In other news Pakistan now is officially Saudi Arabia's army. And Karzai recognized the annexation of Crimea - talking about the reliability of puppets.

So it will come down to a Saudi-Arabia/Pakistan/Taliban face off with India/China/Russia in Afghanistan and a NATO cold war destabilization campaign in Ukraine which will backfire as destabilization of Europe.

There is no way the US can "isolate Russia" in this setup.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 8:00 utc | 146

145) yep. It is Orwellian "newspeak".

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 8:04 utc | 147

it seems US control of EU politicians is a matter of media pressure aks publicity!you never see President Putin worried about media pressure...this serves to show the EU politicians are weak and lack character: the just have nice suits
http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/more-democracy-crimean-vote-253/

Posted by: brian | Mar 24 2014 8:17 utc | 148

148) You are an authoritarian brian, this actually proves that there is no "freedom of the press", no "fourth estate" in Russia.
But yes, Western main stream media is controlled by corporations or - in the case of Germany's state television - by the ruling political parties.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 8:32 utc | 149

The Soviet Union and now Russia were never out of the Zionists crosshairs. Early Ziocons, Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz and Leo Strauss created the "neocon" movement mostly because they were disillusioned with Liberal foreign policy that was leaning towards a detente with the Soviet Union.

Later the foreign policy doctrine which was thought to be "quintessential neoconservative thought" was authored by Zionist Paul Wolfowitz and is as follows:

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power."

Wolfowitz's doctrine was criticized by some, but history now proves that Zionists had their way and led with this policy right up to the present day.

Not intended for public release, it was leaked to the New York Times on March 7, 1992,[1] and sparked a public controversy about U.S. foreign and defense policy. The document was widely criticized as imperialist as the document outlined a policy of unilateralism and pre-emptive military action to suppress potential threats from other nations and prevent any other nation from rising to superpower status.

The doctrine establishes the U.S’s leadership role within the new world order.

The U.S. must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests. In non-defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order. We must maintain the mechanism for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.

The doctrine highlighted the possible threat posed by a resurgent Russia.

We continue to recognize that collectively the conventional forces of the states formerly comprising the Soviet Union retain the most military potential in all of Eurasia; and we do not dismiss the risks to stability in Europe from a nationalist backlash in Russia or efforts to reincorporate into Russia the newly independent republics of Ukraine, Belarus, and possibly others....We must, however, be mindful that democratic change in Russia is not irreversible, and that despite its current travails, Russia will remain the strongest military power in Eurasia and the only power in the world with the capability of destroying the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine#U.S._primacy

As you know, afterwards a younger crop of Ziocons William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Douglas Feith and their mentor Richard Perle all Jewish Zionists as well created a Ziocon think tank called PNAC that was set up for the purpose of global domination and hegemony and they also authored another imperial manifesto tailored for Israel. The document entitled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm dealt more with cementing Zionist control in the Middle East.

So as you can see from the excerpts of Wolfwitz's Doctrine, Russia was always part of the Ziocon plan.

Now good luck trying to prove me wrong for injecting Zionism into this discussion.

As I wrote previously, Russia's influence in the Middle East in Iraq, Libya and Syria was threatening Zionist/U.S. hegemony. I'll repeat what Wolfowitz wrote in his defense doctrine: we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.

This statement was directed mostly at Russia. Russia had a lot of influence and business going with Iraq before the invasion; also with Libya before Nato took Gadaffi down; Russia got screwed when it failed to veto that S.C. "humanitarian" Resolution on Libya, naturally it vetoed every S.C. Resolution on Syria and is remaining firm on its position. Russia has strategic intersts in Syria including oil and gas contracts, and possibly with Lebanon and well.

So Russia was becoming a big player and a threat to this Zionist-authored hegemonic strategy; weakening Russia was always part of the Zionist plan and this is exactly what's happening.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 24 2014 8:35 utc | 150

150) Why do you believe what neocons are saying? They are a front for US arms industry.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 8:52 utc | 151

Phew. Good. Obama has made his position clear

President Obama has told a Dutch newspaper that despite Russia's annexation of Crimea he does not want Europe to be viewed as a battleground between the East and West.

"That's the kind of thinking that should have ended with the Cold War," Obama said. "On the contrary, it's important that Ukraine have good relations with the United States, Russia, and Europe."

...

"If Russia continues to escalate the situation, we need to be prepared to impose a greater cost," Obama said in the interview, conceding that the sanctions the U.S. and Europe unleashed on Russia may affect the global economy.

Can we please translate this now into Ukrainian for stupid 17 year olds with automatic guns? Like "You will die for nothing?"

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 9:02 utc | 152

This here by the way is the party programme of Svoboda, the party EU shakes hand with (oh no, no, no there is no fascism in Maidan)

7. Set the graph "nationality" in the passport and birth certificate. Determine the nationality by birth certificate or birth certificate of the parents, considering the requests of the citizen.

8. Implement a criminal penalty for any displays of Ukrainophobia.

...

14. Oblige candidates for all elective offices to specify in their official biographies the nationality, all previous (from the Soviet era) party and government positions and convictions - repaid and unrepaid. Withdraw the registration of the candidates who concealed biographical facts or deprive deputies of their mandate, if the concealment was found after the election

...
. Adopt a new Citizenship Act, under which citizenship will be given only to those persons who were born in Ukraine or are ethnically Ukrainian, who returned from abroad for permanent living and working in Ukraine. Allow people born in Ukraine from foreigners or stateless persons to acquire Ukrainian citizenship upon reaching age of majority only under the conditions of Ukrainian language fluency, knowledge of Ukrainian history and content of the Constitution of Ukraine.

2. Allow to acquire citizenship of Ukraine in exceptional cases, to persons who are legally residing in Ukraine for at least 15 years and are fluent in Ukrainian, have knowledge of Ukrainian history and content of the Constitution of Ukraine., took the oath of allegiance to Ukraine and abandoned all other nationalities. Disallow these persons' right to acquire the citizenship of Ukraine, if they have criminal records.

3. Provide strict criminal liability for unlawful provision and obtaining of citizenship.

4. Eliminate the illegal practice of dual citizenship. Deprive of Ukrainian citizenship persons who hide that they are citizens of another state.

5. Confiscate property and capital goods acquired in Ukraine from offenders of the Citizenship Act to the state.

6. Facilitate the mass returning to Ukraine of ethnic Ukrainians. Ensure preferential terms for returning home of Ukrainians and their descendants born abroad.

7. Conclude bilateral agreements on the legalization of Ukrainian workers. Provide state protection of Ukrainians abroad by all possible means.

...

10. Ban the adoption of Ukrainian children by foreigners.

...

V. Information Space and Education: Preserving National Identity and Cultural Development

5. Implement a mandatory Ukrainian language exam for civil servants and candidates for elected office. Require all state employees to use Ukrainian language at work and during public appearances.

6. Include in the programs of all universities in Ukraine a compulsory "Culture of Ukrainian language" course of not less than 72 hours.

...

8. Cultivate the best traditions of Ukrainian pedagogy. Discontinue the practice of mechanical copying of foreign models, including the Bologna Process.

The Bologna process is the EU academic standard that makes it possible for students to switch between European universities ...

So this was sold as a pro EU movement?

LOL!

Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 9:43 utc | 153

Wow.

Bank of New York Mellon holds over a quarter of Gazprom shares

That is worth - what - 70 Billion?

Another piece of dramatic theater played for the taxpayer.


Posted by: somebody | Mar 24 2014 10:41 utc | 154

I have to agree with ben, " Zionists, and the state of Israel are committing gross evils in the world, but, are not the complete driving force, some here believe. They are but tools of the modern day Globalists,..."

rememberinggiap and Copeland have been on this blog as long as I have, and they deserve our respect. rememberinggiap is one of the people I asked b to put me in contact with when he shut down the blog. The others, like r'giap, I had limited correspondence with, but because b made that effort, my appreciation of him goes beyond what he contributes to the 'resistance axis' as this resistance blog is the oldest and best on the internet, to my knowledge.

I think I may understand r'giap's impatience with the 'ziocon' meme, as I quoted ben above, the neocon/neolib fusion is well documented, and doesn't need to be anyone's focus. Can't we just take it for granted?

I will post again the most definitive article on it I've ever read, David Gabbard's "Militarizing Class Warfare", which traces both neocon and neolib doctrine & aims back to their roots. And why they fused.

http://www.wwwords.co.uk/pdf/freetoview.asp?j=pfie&vol=5&issue=2&year=2007&article=2_Gabbard_PFIE_5_2_web

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 24 2014 13:22 utc | 155

ProPeace #123

I knew he stole it! Canadians are far too decent for a thug like him.

Scalawag #116

Yes. Most North American tribes had leadership clans and some had basically caste systems. But everyone was treated fairly, there were usually provisions for lower-caste people to assume leadership positions, just not inherit them, and the really BIG deal we imposed on them was that land, the true source of, well, everything, could be owned, purchased and sold rather than held in trust for the welfare of everyone. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederation) had a Great Law of Peace that took five days to recite in full, was known essentially by all, re-recited at great conclaves every one to five years, rigorously applied, and worked for several hundred years until we destroyed it and them. Franklin knew and respected it and them, and several chiefs strongly suggested we utilize it in our Constitution. Oh, and women were treated well and held real power.

Massinissa

Ron Paul's right about the Fed -- enough of these private banks and bankers -- but he is a documented racist, dammit.

Kalithea

"But those who hold the bulk of the shares in those corporations, and have the last word, live in Wall Street's ivory towers."

Yup. And whenever one of these hasbara can provide actual, you know, facts to refute this, I'll be willing to listen. Names of non-Shabbas-goyim oligarchs, please. We're waiting.

And a big YES to your #150 !!! I never thought those creeps would live down the hideous debacle of the Iraq War, but they're right back running things again.

somebody # 152

How do you translate weasel-speak into anything?

okie farmer # 155

As a longtime lurker I always took r'giap very seriously and wish him well. I'm almost thinking he's someone else now bc I've never seen him so vitriolic and ad hominem. It's one thing to be sick and tired of Zionists, Jews, whoever, always being discussed, but it's another thing entirely to attack people for daring to criticize them.

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24 2014 14:42 utc | 156

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24, 2014 1:15:58 AM | 124

"... Chefs? Wut?"

Yeah, I thought that too. But then I remembered one I worked for back in the 70's, and yup, chefs, definitely. :)

Posted by: Massinissa | Mar 24, 2014 1:20:58 AM | 126

"....You would think I would be used to it by now, but..."

Same here.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 24 2014 14:55 utc | 157

Posted by: Nora | Mar 24, 2014 10:42:28 AM | 156

Definitely.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 24 2014 15:11 utc | 158

For one I'm not a complete newbie here either. More importantly though seniority isn't everything; it helps when seeing a consistent mindset and a good track record but in the end, important is what one says now and here and how one says it.

r'giap behaves like an asshole since some days but I do not think that he *is* one; frankly, my assumption is more one pointing to the dancing yeltsin. Whatever it may be that drives him to recently behave grossly impolite and to offer little but personal attacks, it may be forgivable but it's not acceptable nor is it in any way helpful or constructive, no matter how long he's been here and no matter how many here dive in memories of the good old days.

So, is it the zionists? Or "global players"? Or evil forces? Or illuminati? Or the flying spaghetti monster? We do not know and we can not even really know. Certainly, a force that is powerful enough to make "big" leaders dance to their tunes, to make the media tell or not tell sth., to make bombs fall on any target, and to make billions of any currency flow around the globe, do have the power, too, to be seen or not seen or to be be seen in many suits.

So, in a sense the zionists are a symbol, too. Maybe I'm blaming this or that war these or those million deads on zionists when, in fact, party X was responsible. But then, if it was important to be just and fair to mass murderers of the worst kind, the price to pay for us would be to not name the guilty party at all if only it was capable of disguising its responsibility and guilt.
That is certainly not acceptable. And from what we can know the zionists have indeed been and are at least one of the worst evils this world has ever seen and consistently so.
Furthermore, there is nothing that should lead us to believe that there is sth. like democracy or shared responsibility on the top floor of real power, the floor where unjustified wars are decided and where agents are decided upon which then take care of the everyday management of the politician puppets.
*If* there were indeed two or three different groups in charge one would certainly notice some ripple effects as one would do in a city with two or three crime syndicates in charge, even if those usually would stick to any deals sharing the city.

We could delve deeper into this matter and, yes, we would certainly see different players and faces, players like master bankers behind the front of everyday banking, players like grey warlord emminences with just the right wires to analysts and generals, and others. But this would lead us nowhere because it's neither the bankers nor the warlords who really call the shots; there is yet another power behind those, a power with interests in all areas and controlling the whole game. It might not be 100% correct and always correct to name that power "the zionists" but it certainly is often enough correct enough to call "the zionists" *the* evil party behind all evil things or, at least, to use that as a label.

It seems that many jews play an important role in the ugly game. But beware, it's not as easy as calling out "the jews" as evil. First, zionism is linked to jews, maybe deeply, maybe just pragmatically, but anyway it's not "the jews" driving and controlling zionism. Actually I tend to think that the jews are just pragmatically linked, maybe even chosen in cold calcule. After all, they are everywhere, they are a rather small group, they, due to their culture, tend to value education highly and they are not too open but rather a close knit group; in short the jews are what an evil force might consider a very useful tool. And in a very ugly way (ugly for the jews, too) they have indeed been by being blamed by pretty everyone and his dog for evil things and most of all israel which perfidiously calls itself "state of the jews". But it gets even more perfidious. In going that way the zionist actually drive many jews to really feel that they should be linked to zionism and come to israel, a step that might seem to offer some security but actually also creates dependency.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems very important to me to *not* blame or hate the jews and to not paint them as evil as doing so just adds injustice and more problems and also plays into the hands of the zionists.

In fact we see that ugly game at work right now in ukraine. Some israels even openly said that israel is to profit from the ukraine nazis by making the jews there understand that they can find security only in israel. And indeed israel is winning in diverse regards. One of those being that european countries will be blamed to have created a situation in which the ukraine jews were put in danger by the european instigated and payed nazis unless, of course, they blindly obey and do as told by the zionists.

More as a sidenote I'm still uncertain about zusa and particularly obama. While that guy, of course, is foremost a politician, i.e. a lousy creature and remote controlled puppet, I'm under the impression that there might be some kind of opposing force that succeeded in putting him into place with the goal of breaking zusa free from israel. Of course no zamerican president can simply declare such a step; it must be split into many small steps. kerry may be puppet but he seems to be somewhat less pro-israel than others (like clinton bitch) and obama is relatively discretely but anyway consistent in his demands for peace by/and a two state solution which, of course, is perceived as a quite direct attack by israel; in fact there are even some organisations daring to boycott israel; granted it's not yet wide spread and it's not yet big organisation but ones like the architects guild of some country but anyway, there is a certain kind of movement that was unthinkable five years ago.
One issue that "poked" me particularly is the many high ranking officers in the zusa military that have been sacked. It might be interesting to see what kind of officers those were. I know only one case and that was some admiral (guette or similar) who in 2007 (I think) wanted to provoke a war with Iran and almost succeeded. So it might well be that many of those officers were very friendly towards israel.

Sure enough there will again be some idiots calling me anti-semite. Oh well, ...


Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 24 2014 15:59 utc | 159

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