Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 02, 2014

Billmon: The Ukrainian Grand Delusion

The patron saint of this blog, Billmon, provides us with a concise (though necessarily incomplete) history of meddling in the Ukraine:

U.S. and E.U. to pro-West Ukrainians: "You fucked up, guys. You trusted us."

  1. Fairly concise summary of why US/EU meddling in internal Ukrainian politics ended up being such a bad idea:  http://nyti.ms/1fS7wFD 
     
  2. billmon@billmon1
    Former Bush deputy NSA: “There’s nothing we can do to save Ukraine at this point."  http://nyti.ms/1fS7wFD 
     
  3. billmon@billmon1
    For more than a decade, US & EU elites encouraged Ukrainians 2 think their future was with the "West," despite clear Russian signals...(1)
     
  4. ...that any attempt to bring Ukraine into NATO would be deemed an attack on Russia's core security interests. (2)
     
  5. Ignoring Russia, the US/EU continued to speak (and act) as if Ukraine's eventual integration into the western alliance was inevitable. (3)
     
  6. Western allies offered the dream of EU membership (& EU living standards) & a false promise of generous economic aid...(4)
  7. billmon@billmon1
    ...on condition Ukraine reject Russian assistance. When offer wasn't accepted by Yanukovych, they encouraged pro-West Ukrainians 2 rebel (5)
     
  8. billmon@billmon1
    ..US & EU manipulated Ukranian political factions 2 get government they wanted - 1 that would impose neoliberal "reforms" and austerity. (6)
     
  9. billmon@billmon1
    But now, having raised the hopes & expectations of pro-West Ukranians & provoked an aggressive Russian reaction...(7)
     
  10. billmon@billmon1
    ...They say "there's nothing we can do to save Ukraine."  http://bit.ly/1fS9Tbv  Stupid, shameful, craven & destructive. Bastards.

b here:

The same happened with Hungary in 1956, Prague in 1968 and with the Shia in Iraq after the first Gulf war. The U.S. incited hope that it would come to help in revolutions only to then say that there is nothing it can do. What group will be the next one to be fooled like this?

Posted by b on March 2, 2014 at 07:32 AM | Permalink

Comments

If this were Mexico or Canada and the government was overthrown with Russian help, what would be the next step for us? And if you are the guy on the other side of the world meddling in the next door neighbor of your most powerful rival, what are your chances of influencing events on the ground when things heat up?

Bonus thought: what benefit is meddling in the next door neighbor of the second most powerful country in the world worth? Especially when said country's nuclear arsenal could wipe us off the face of the planet?

Posted by: Cynthia | Mar 2, 2014 8:02:17 AM | 1

1 think Cuba ...

Posted by: somebody | Mar 2, 2014 8:21:22 AM | 2

true? false?
Militant News @MilitantNews 1h
#Ukraine Fascist Right Sector group announces on social network it is sending 7,000 armed members to Kharkov

Posted by: brian | Mar 2, 2014 8:26:35 AM | 3

@brian Great! That means that those mercenaries are actually living dead now - will be obliterated soon by SO.

This sounds credible given the date on the video 2/26/2014: ADVANCED Russian S-400 AIR DEFENCE heading to UKRAINE

Marat Mucin from ANNA wrote about 8-10 groups of neonazi terrorist commandos sent by Turchinov already operating in Symferpol. French BFM TV crew supposedly captured them on video attacking governor's palace in Crimea.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 2, 2014 8:49:08 AM | 4

On a lighter note, for those of you interested in prophecies Edgar Cayce - 'Russia - The Hope Of The World'

The readings of America's greatest psychic remain an extraordinary body of data which often stagger the reader with its prescience and projections of future events. Many years ago, during the cold war, I remember reading about how Cayce claimed - while in one of his self-induced trance sessions - some remarkable things about Russia.
Today, much of the world views Russia and the brilliant leadership of Vladimir Putin as the only hope of stopping the malignant and deadly spread of
world zionism. The signing of the new Russian-Iranian strategic gas and oil agreement on Sunday, July 13, further seems to underscore that any attack on Iran may bring Russia directly and immediately into the conflict on the side of peace and the preservation of a free and independent Middle East and - some would argue by extension - the world.
The following two excerpts from Edgar Cayce readings are quite extraordinary by any measure.
FIRST -
In this first short example, Cayce - in the 1930s - indicated the 'sins' of the key nations:
America - has forgotten "in God we trust"
England - conceit
France - lust
China - isolationism
India - internalization of knowledge
Italy - dissensions
He said "Russia will become beacons of hope for the world." The statement about the 'conceit' (of the Zionist London Banksters?) in England is extraordinary. Just look at the Zionist conquest of Europe under the EU. The comment about America having forgotten "in God we Trust" is beyond eerily accurate. Remember, these statements were made in the 1930s
SECOND -
In this, more detailed account of his prowess, Cayce makes a number of nearly breathtaking projections -
Cayce predicted the beginning and end of both the First and Second World Wars, and the lifting of the Depression in 1933. In the 1920s, he first warned of coming racial strife in the United States, and in 1939 he predicted the deaths of two presidents in office;
"Ye are to have turmoils -- ye are to have strife between capital and labor. Ye are to have a division in thy own land, before ye have the second of the Presidents that next will not live through his office... a mob rule!"
President Franklin D. Roosevelt died in office in April 1945. In November 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas, when racial tensions in the United States were at their height.
"Unless there is more give and take and consideration for those who produce, with better division of the excess profits from labor, there must be greater turmoil in the land."
In October 1935, Cayce spoke of the coming war in Europe. The Austrians and Germans, he said, and later the Japanese, would take sides.
"Thus, an unseen force, gradually growing, must result in an almost direct opposition to the Nazi, or Aryan theme. This will gradually produce a growth of animosities. And unless there is interference by what many call supernatural forces and influences -- which are active in the affairs of nations and peoples -- the whole world as it were... will be set on fire by militaristic groups and people who are for power expansion."
(This 'unseen force' is clearly the Zionist banking cartel and its forcing the US into WWII against Germany via the chicanery of FDR and the London and Wall Street Zionist banksters. Few remember that the Bolshevik Communist Zionist Jews were within a few weeks of a massive invasion of Germany and all of Europe when Hitler beat them to the punch with Operation Barbarosa, hoping to destroy Communism/Bolshevism once and for all.)
Through Russia, Cayce said "comes the hope of the world. Not in respect to what is sometimes termed Communism or Bolshevism -- no! But freedom -- freedom! That each man will live for his fellow man. The principle has been born there. It will take years for it to be crystallized; yet out of Russia comes again the hope of the world."
Cayce also predicted the possibility of a THIRD World War. He spoke of strifes arising..."in Libya, and in Egypt, in Ankara, and in Syria; through the straits around those areas above the Persian Gulf."
Later on, when asked in June 1943 whether it would be feasible to work towards an equitable international world currency or a stabilization of international exchange levels when the war (WW II) had ended, Cayce replied that it would be a long, long time before this would happen. Indeed, he said, "there may be another war (WW III) over just such conditions."
_____
It does not get much more clear than that. The final paragraph from 1943 points to the world financial criminal cartel, doubtless the City of London banking and financial controllers, preventing the true and equitable stabilization of world economics after WWII ended. Today's 'exchange levels' are being set by the world's 'currency' masters - the oil and energy and banking cartels - and the control and manipulation of it all by this now not so 'unseen' force.
Cayce was peerless in his visions, and it appears that Mr. Putin and Russia are standing in the breach in terms of preventing, for the moment, the 'unseen force' (world Zionism) from taking total control of the West.
Russia is the only obstacle ('the hope of the world') to that, and the Bush/Cheney/Zionist cabal is unarguably attempting to force Russia into a war with the phony Bush protect-Europe-from-Iran 'missile shield' in Eastern Europe deployment efforts. Russia is now saying it will respond 'militarily' to such a deployment.
We are at the edge, seemingly very much along the lines 'seen' by Cayce over 60 years ago in the final year of his life. - Jeff Rense

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 2, 2014 8:55:12 AM | 5

The Ukrainian Grand Delusion
Speaking of "Delusions" here's The Guuardian's latest attempt at keeping us all up-to-date on the latest news from Washington about what Obama is up to right now, as his Ukrainian Neo-Nazi proxy forces set the stage for War with Russia.

I suppose one could call it "The Washington Delusion"

President Barack Obama and Vice-President Joe Biden take a jog around the White House in between meetings and signing documents. They carried out the run around the White House in response to a challenge set by Michelle Obama, who wants to raise awareness of her Let's Move campaign to get children keeping fit

bizarre - I cannot help but think about historical figures such as Nero (the Emperor Jogs while Ukraine burns), Caligula (the Emperor appointed his Ass as Vice-President, giving his Ass pride of place in the Senate) etc

Posted by: brb | Mar 2, 2014 9:23:57 AM | 6

Anyone suffering from the delusion that the Boxer Klitschko represents some sort of moderate-element in Ukraine should know that according to this Guardian "report" "Vitali Klitschko has called for parliament to convene and order a full mobilisation of the army"

Posted by: brb | Mar 2, 2014 9:40:10 AM | 7

Here's a recent quote for anyone the world over who would like to really understand the madness that comes from living day to day in the criminal US. This statement is typical in its utter absurdity, hypocrisy and shamelessness. Statements like this are made 24/7/365 about everything and anything. I've said it before but this must be recognized as beyond propaganda into a new realm where fantasy has taken hold:


"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 2, 2014 10:04:43 AM | 8

It's hard to win the war when your army joins the other side

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-military-russia-resign-437/

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/01/ukraine-one-regime-change-too-many/

by Ray McGovern

Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 2, 2014 10:04:54 AM | 9

Adding:

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

Again, how can a leader/ambassador/rational person from another country that has to deal with the US not just sit there and stare at someone, anyone - but much less the Secretary of State - would could possibly say things like this. I mean there's spin and there's diplospeak and there's fudging numbers and then there is madness and psychopathy.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 2, 2014 10:12:44 AM | 10

Well, who would have expected anything else than dirty biased Russia-hating propaganda from a zamerican "newspaper" and then of all the nyt?

What I personally find far more interesting is *how* zusa (incl. its presstitutes) try to smear Russia.

Actually I dare to postulate that this is increasingly turning against themselves. Simply because, no matter the situation, zusa always realiably uses the same few textblocks ("democracy" (they), "illegal" (the other side), bla bla). Obviously this usually works. ukraine, however, is *not usual*. Putins/Russias actions and facts on the ground *clearly and obviously* mark zamerican propaganda as lies.

In Iraq, for instance, people had a chance to believe that somehow Hussein was a terrorist friend who produced weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't easy for Joe Average to verify.
Now, however, it's easy to verify, it's obvious, zusa created the situation and this is well known and proven, and Putin hasn't yet thrown a single bomb or launched a single missile. On top of it, he doesn't need to because the ukrainian military, "zusas friends" run away from their units, many of them directly to the Russian side.

I can't help but to sometimes wonder how the world, many countries of which had the opportunity to experience zusa as a victim of zusa themselves, will deal with zusa once its inevitable demise is further progressed...

I personally have reached the point of strongly trying to avoid zamerican products, avoiding zamericans, where not possible to confront them in open aggression "Where do we go mass murdering today?"), threatening owners of pubs and restaurants serving zamericans to stop going there (forever) and to campaign my friends and associates to avoid them, too and more.
If I happened to be a doctor I would even refuse to treat zamericans, no matter the circumstances, except for children.
And I know from friends in Latin America, whose country was actively victimized by zusa, that they would go *way* farther than myself. They'd kill every zamerican they could possibly get hold of in a dark corner.

I think, the price zusa is going to pay very soon will be extremely high and brutal. But still not brutal enough.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 2, 2014 10:14:30 AM | 11

Cannot be compared to 1956 Budapest revolt when brave men fought an urban battle against Soviet tanks. It was the worst period of the Cold War and Soviet suppression of its people since WWII.

"Yet Washington's role in the Hungarian revolution soon became mired in controversy. One of the most successful weapons in the East-West battle for the hearts and minds of Eastern Europe was the CIA-administered Radio Free Europe. But in the wake of the uprising, RFE's broadcasts into Hungary sometimes took on a much more aggressive tone, encouraging the rebels to believe that Western support was imminent, and even giving tactical advice on how to fight the Soviets. The hopes that were raised, then dashed, by these broadcasts cast an even darker shadow over the Hungarian tragedy that leaves many Hungarians embittered to this day."

The Kyiv revolution pitted East vs West, a divided Ukraine. Russia's Putin is a pragmatist and will let the people of Crimea vote by referendum this month, their choice to reject the regime in Kyiv and ask for Russian protection. By piece meal, Putin will look at Eastern Ukraine and let the people vote by governate. In the meantime, the Russian army will ensure stabilization and security. The thugs of the Right Wing and Svoboda party in the vanguard of the revolt lacked humanity and democratic principles. In the end, the regime change was a violent coup d'etat.

Putin will not get involved with Western Ukraine.

Posted by: Oui | Mar 2, 2014 10:16:57 AM | 12

If this is what passes as "Strategic thinking" in the US Government, then I'd hate to see them caught off guard.

It's as if they had no idea any of this was coming. As if they had no idea Russia would, if it couldn't defend its interests, at least defend its people. So they act surprised. They issue stern warnings. They discuss god-only-knows in their meetings - probably nuclear war, the end of all of us.

During the Georgia War, they actually considered sending troops and bombing the Roki Tunnel.

Inside the Bush administration, there was discussion of more robust action, like bombing the Roki Tunnel to block Russian troops or providing Georgia with Stinger antiaircraft missiles. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice bristled at what she called the “chest beating,” and the national security adviser, Stephen J. Hadley, urged the president to poll his team to see if anyone recommended sending American troops.

Oh how they must shudder when they realize they do not control the entire planet!

These freaks are in a bubble. They don't talk to anyone, they just go hand out cookies to any fascist who will smile at them for half a second because they are so thoroughly hated in the world.

They threaten Russia with isolation, but it is them who will be isolated soon. The BRICS don't need anything from anyone. The United States is like some mean boss who will be sorely surprised when the new factory opens across the street, and everyone up and quits on him.

This picture says all you need to know about neoliberalism: the fat, "feared" thug protecting the skinny disliked technocrat ("I will be the most unpopular PM ever!" I don't even what to know what pathologies the CIA found useful in this scumbag) - both in the pay of the bankers from the "west".

Read this gem, talking about "fighting communists" and "partisans" in the Russian east. Make no mistake - the west wants civil war:

Steven Pifer, a former American ambassador to Ukraine now at the Brookings Institution, said that if Russian forces tried to move into eastern Ukraine, “there will be some Ukrainian units that will resist, and a flood of people from western Ukraine saying, ‘This is my chance to be my grandfather and fight the Communists.’ ”

Does this fine Steven Pifer chap have any clue as to what he is saying? Would he be pleased to hear the Germans say "This is my chance to be like my grandfather" and shove him bodily into an oven?

Yuri Lutsenko, an opposition leader, reached out on Saturday to residents of eastern Ukraine who might be watching on television, saying the protesters who had populated the Maidan, or Independence Square, in Kiev had never harbored anger at those in the east.

“We reach out our hands from Maidan to Donetsk, to Kharkiv, to Dnepropetrovsk and to Simferopol,” he said, talking in Russian, which is spoken by many in the eastern part of the country.

Mr. Lutsenko also discouraged street fighters from arming themselves immediately. “The hour for a partisan movement has not yet come,” he said.

Get real. These fuckers have lost their minds. They are condemning who knows how many to death - and millions to suffering, just as they did in Syria.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 10:28:27 AM | 13

@13
Pifer is right. The West Ukrainian Rusyn nationalists, the descendants of those who NAZI SS unit 14th SS-Volunteer Division Galician and regular army units Bataillon Ukrainische Gruppe Nachtigall and Battalion Ukrainische Gruppe Roland, will fight to death dreaming of killing as many Russians as they can.

I describe the nazi/Bandera history of the West Ukrainian Rusysns in posts: 194 and 197: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/03/the-crimean-anti-coup-move/comments/page/2/#comments

Posted by: CC | Mar 2, 2014 10:40:35 AM | 14

Easy, guest77, easy ...

First, actually I consider it possible (but not necessarily probable) that zusa seriously thought Russia would do nothing. After all Putin showed many years of patience, always tried to find diplomatic solution, always played nice.

Then the nuclear bomb. Forget it. Some of those insane psychopaths might dream of it but they won't seriously consider.
Simple reason: As things stand, Russia would end up heavily wounded and zusa would end up plain dead and inhabitable for millenia. Look at the relevant factors and you will find that Russias chances to completely destroy zusa, even in a response hit, are virtually 100% while zusas chances to create full destruction in Russia are virtually 0%.


"georgia war"

Forget it. Not comparable. In many respects. For instance: There simply isn't a "Roki tunnel" to bomb for zusa. It's zusa that had to go through more than one "Roki tunnel" this times.

Btw. "pifer" is a jewish name. Coincidence. Of course.

So: Easy, guest77, easy ... and just a little patience. I checked the options. Thouroughly. And I know what to look for and the relevant factors.

Let me tell you: It's no coincidence zusa blabbers, warns, and farts a lot - and doesn't do much.
Furthermore: If one wants to go into a situation like that, one wants to do it *early* and preferably surprisingly. Those very important elements are both on Russias side.
And then there is the big potential second trap: China. As soon as zusa does so much as try an intervention that wasn't necessarily doomed to fail from the start the China trap will spring and, oops, zusa is in a two front war with the two major powers and they have all advantages (like proximity to each other) and zusa has nothing but the shitpot.

If zusa ever wanted to react militarily they had to do it earlier, way earlier. Now they are basically check mate. They just don't want to understand it.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 2, 2014 10:50:42 AM | 15

don't forget the Cubans, even less attractive than the West Ukrainians, who helped kill JFK after their hopes of comprador reconquista were raised & dashed

--though JFK made a gaffe in the Orange Bowl and Bobby encouraged the hopes of the Cuban bastards, it was Allen Dulles & CIA who spread the blood libel that JFK was responsible for Bay of Pigs failure by "witholding air cover"

Posted by: Cu Chulainn | Mar 2, 2014 10:50:48 AM | 16

To stop U.S./Zionist tyranny, the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) including other countries, like Venezuela, other Latin American countries and Iran who view what the U.S. is doing as madness and a threat to world stability and peace should get together and find a way of replacing the U.S. dollar as the international reserve currency. The way to stop the U.S. and for that matter Zionist-driven foreign policy in its tracks is in the pocketbook! Sinking the dollar and replacing it with another currency is one of the major ways to reign in U.S. imperialism. Establishing an alternative to the G8 is antoher. Russia needs to step up and make this happen before we're all doomed to becoming the pawns of U.S./Zionist imperial hubris.

Putin was right to return to the Russian Presidency. We need someone like him to turn things around. This IS the time; this is the moment in history that must be seized. Radical changes must be made now to achieve world balance and stop U.S. hegemony that is greedy and irresponsible in every way. The BRICS needs to step up and lead this change, otherwise we are doomed to this evolving American/Zionist tyranny destroying our freedoms.

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 2, 2014 11:11:12 AM | 17

This whole episode is a reminder, if we needed one, that the current foreign policy establishment in the United States is the dumbest set of nincompoops since the the last ministry of Austro-Hungary. I'm not sure when it came to be taken over by second-raters, but it was no later than the first Clinton administration. Warren Christopher was the last Secretary of State in the classical mode. Mme Albright turned out to be an ideologue; Condaleeza Rice matched the incompetence of her boss, which is saying something and is why he chose her. Mrs. Clinton, though she seems to have been a competent administrator, had no previous foreign policy credentials and showed it. Kerry is a blathering idiot. Going from there to the Think Tanks, the Brookings Institution, which used to be home to liberals has been totally taken over by Neocons ever since Clinton. The Council on Foreign Relations is a disgrace.

US policy since Albright has been on automatic pilot and headed for a crash. There is nobody in a position of authority capable of independent thought, or any thought for that matter. It is a very scary situation when the only adults in the room are the military brass. For the life of me I cannot identify the source of the selection bias, but the foreign policy establishment is getting stupider and stupider as we speak. I do not think this can be attributed to what Mr Pragma calls the 'stupdization' of the American people, because they don't have any say and never have had a say in foreign policy. The establishment are so-called elites. I was once part of that elite: I don't remember us being that stupid, though maybe we were and didn't know it.

Posted by: Knut | Mar 2, 2014 11:49:58 AM | 18

@18

Not stupid as much as insane I would argue. Totally and completely fucking murderously insane. Once you abandon any semblance of acting like a human being - and American leaders long ago gave up that "nonsense" - you open doors to places that people should never go as you've become untethered from reality. They really do believe that "they create their own reality" now. The false flag of 9/11 was the starting gun for this complete and utter abandonment of rationality. It may have been a conscious decision at first but now they are either - as you say - just on psychopath auto-pilot or following some secrete mandate of which the outcomes are equally mad.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 2, 2014 12:09:13 PM | 19

Latest! Kiev just finds out that its newly appointed navy chief is a separatist!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt9efnLV4UY&feature=youtu.be

(from the bbc thread: "Breaking News: There's now video footage showing the Ukrainian navy chief Denys Berezovsky pledging allegiance to "the Crimean people". He was only appointed on Saturday by the new government in Kiev. "

Posted by: Mina | Mar 2, 2014 12:09:13 PM | 20

@ JSorrentine | Mar 2, 2014 10:12:44 AM | 10

Carved in granite, that CBS quote from Kerry would look good above each column of names of 9/11 WTC victims.
What a chicken. How come he didn't say it in Kabul or Baghdad?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 2, 2014 12:11:16 PM | 21

@21 Lol.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 12:41:14 PM | 22

@ pRagmat #11: Putin despises people like you.

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 2, 2014 12:53:05 PM | 23

@kalithea #17 You seem late to this game:
Russia's Plan For The BRICS To Dismantle The Dollar System
Next Step In Dismantling The Dollar And US Credit Hegemony

Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 2, 2014 1:08:15 PM | 24

Why is the Kiev junta calling for military mobilization, i.e. calling in the reservists? Do they not have an army already? Evidently not.

If the coup had been successful, then it would be time to stop the anarchy and restore law and order. Normally, by this time you would see tanks and troops all over the capital. So far I have not seen any organized professional security on the putschist side. (Forgot. This is not a coup, this is a revolution!)

So far this is not a military conflict, but a non-violent one à la Gene Sharp. (The Crimea is a separate case, but is already irrevocably lost.) There is no immediate military threat on Ukraine; Russia is extremely reluctant to interfere or invade. Control of the standing army should be sufficient for all immediate needs.

The conclusions one must draw:
1) The junta intends to violently suppress any separatism or non-compliance.
2) The junta has no control of the Ukrainian military, apart from their web servers.

to enlarge the army.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 2, 2014 1:35:37 PM | 25

Few remember that the Bolshevik Communist Zionist Jews were within a few weeks of a massive invasion of Germany and all of Europe when Hitler beat them to the punch with Operation Barbarosa... ( Jeff Rense) Posted by: ProPeace | Mar 2, 2014 8:55:12 AM | 5
That is not 'a lighter note', it is total nonsense.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Mar 2, 2014 1:48:09 PM | 26

@17 i totally agree with this quote of yours. " Sinking the dollar and replacing it with another currency is one of the major ways to reign in U.S. imperialism." question is - how does that happen when oil is priced in us$? the bretton woods agreement continues to favour a continuation of us$ hegemony.

@18 - i tend to agree with @19 on his take of your comments.

Posted by: james | Mar 2, 2014 2:04:46 PM | 27

Why hasn't anyone asked Hillary "Why didn't you purge the State Dept. of neocons?" For that matter, John Kerry? This is not "Hope nor Change" I can believe. If Hillary decides to run for President, everyone needs to ask her that question at every function and public event.

Posted by: kate | Mar 2, 2014 2:13:26 PM | 28

in fact the so called 'insurrection' in hungary in 1956 was an anti jewish pogrom. sold war warriors have concealed that favt ever since

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 2, 2014 2:19:38 PM | 29

How about the lack of -- no, not lack; how about total nullity, absolute zero -- organized political opposition to the ongoing U.S./EU insanity vis-a-vis Ukraine within the Western countries themselves. I can't pick up any from within the belly of the beast here, U.S. of A. Not even an e-blast from the usually reliable JustForeignPolicy.org. What about the Greens in Germany? Are they no longer the peace party (did Joschka Fischer end that by bombing Yugo)? How about the French Communist Party? I know Beppe Grillo has called bullshit, saying that "Since the collapse of the USSR, the United States in particular, together with their western allies, have in my opinion, the chance to claim responsibility for seven or eight wars of aggression!"

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 2, 2014 2:24:17 PM | 30

@30,the green party is a tool of the empire,one tool right one left it has been like this for a very long time.There are no mainstream parties that work against the empire parameter,not in zusa nor in zeu!

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 2, 2014 2:36:40 PM | 31

The people in Washington live in a different reality. Most people that achieve great wealth and power usually do. The great American comedian, Bill Murray said it best; "When you become famous, you usually become a big fat jerk, it usually last two years and you either snap out of it or it becomes permanent". I think he was referring to how he went through it and overcame it, while Chevy Chase did and became a HUGE COMEMIERDA!!!
Barak. Obama is now that huge comemierda. He believes the hype and myths.
USA, feeds us lie's and more lies. Hollywood fake, make believe stories about the grandiosity of USA. While making other countries seem unimportant. It does not even accept the degrees of people from other countries, with out making those extremely educated professionals jump through numerous hoops and jump over many obstacles. While the degrees from ESTADOS UNIDOS, must be accepted readily everywhere, no me jodas.
While Wall Street creates fictitious wealth. I don't know why people allow Kanye and the Cardashyans to influence them? Or why the stupidity of some fool saying that he is a homosexual athlete have any transedance.
USA robs the whole world of it's resources and best educated then it advertises itself as the greatest country on earth. I hate and love USA. I made my fortune here but I see the evil and wickedness behind it all. Bittersweet does not begin to describe the feelings in my throat and in my gut mis amigos.
In my country we have a saying;
A veces, hay que comer mierda para aprender a ser fuerte.

Posted by: Fernando | Mar 2, 2014 2:47:45 PM | 32

@26 Next up, s/he'll have some Nostradamus scrolls for us. "And the eagle and the bear will clash on blah blah blah..."

...

Listening to Obama and other politicos, you just realize how Orwellian the world has become. Everything is upside down. It just the same old horseshit. He continually invokes "The Ukrainian People" as if it is some magic word. As if this is a thing that is even possible to discuss after all that has occurred.

I hope that the demons in hell have turned up the temperature on that drunken bum Yeltsin's rotisserie, because it is on him to a great degree that the blame for this falls.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 3:05:41 PM | 33

@Fernando # 32

'The people in Washington live in a different reality....

In deed AND in the Pentagon as well , here an article by Gordon Duff :

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/21/351666/obama-purging-american-intelligence/

"Pentagon fairyland"

In discussions today with a high-ranking retired Army intelligence officer, I was told the extent of the problem. My first question:

Q: “Is it true that the report openly admits that the generally-accepted narrative about Al-Qaeda and 9/11, about the Taliban and our war on Iraq are now seen as not ‘errors’ but systematic deceit?”

A: “It actually goes much further. The entire system is in free fall, a total collapse. It isn’t just the lying and the fraud, it is more endemic than that. The majority of our intelligence officers seem to actually believe it all. It is as though they have been subject to mass lobotomies. Surviving as a flag officer within a typical command environment requires a certain amount of “mitigated responsibility. This goes much further. When an intelligence officer starts believing their own lies it is simply insanity.”

The current culture within the Pentagon, CIA, NSA and the Department of Justice/FBI has developed accepting the good vs. evil dialectic developed for talk radio audiences and those who believe professional wrestling is real.

What has changed is that, for the first time, an American administration has actually had to call on its intelligence assets for real information, something that never happened during the Bush presidency or Obama’s first term as well, it has turned out that no such capability exists.....

Posted by: Sufi | Mar 2, 2014 3:25:31 PM | 34

"The current culture within the Pentagon, CIA, NSA and the Department of Justice/FBI has developed accepting the good vs. evil dialectic developed for talk radio audiences and those who believe professional wrestling is real."

Brilliant!

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 3:36:58 PM | 35

b, there are persistent well founded rumors that the Ukrainians kept back some nuclear weapons when they were denuclearized. This is said to be well known in the West. Comments?

Posted by: phillip | Mar 2, 2014 4:13:49 PM | 36

@36
Are you sure you're not the source of those rumors?

I don't think such a conspiracy could work out.
Even if they did manage to keep a few - only to sale the plutonium to Iran or whoever buys it.

Posted by: Sergey | Mar 2, 2014 4:56:27 PM | 37

Polish troops are mobilizing and moving east towards Ukrainian border

this link shows armored vehicle line heading east with signs to prove it

http://www.kresy.pl/wydarzenia,wojskowosc?zobacz%2Fprzegrupowanie-w-polskiej-armii-w-zwiazku-z-kryzysem-na-ukrainie-

Posted by: Michele | Mar 2, 2014 5:29:05 PM | 38

Ukraine mobilizes:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140302

Russia - IMO - WILL NOT give up their Black Sea fleet stationed at Sebastopol without a fight. Russia will do whatever it takes to defend that fleet. No, the world WILL see more violence.

Depending on the actions of the Ukraine we could see a rift between the eastern and western part of the Ukraine. And then the eastern part will join Russia.

Given the fragile state of the world economy the EU & US have been playing with dynamite by supporting the Ukraine.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 2, 2014 6:00:08 PM | 39

"Given the fragile state of the world economy the EU & US have been playing with dynamite by supporting the Ukraine."

Supporting fascists in the Ukraine.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 6:05:54 PM | 40

If the Black Sea fleet would fall into Ukranian hands then the US would have free reign in the Black Sea.

This could lead to a nuclear war. Read this transcript:

"AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about significance of this, in terms of nuclear warfare in Russia? Do we have anything to fear along those lines?


COL. SAM GARDINER: Absolutely. Let me just say that if you were to rate how serious the strategic situations have been in the past few years, this would be above Iraq, this would be above Afghanistan, and this would be above Iran.


On little notice to Americans, the Russians learned at the end of the first Gulf War that they couldn’t — they didn’t think they could deal with the United States, given the value and the quality of American precision conventional weapons. The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons. They continue to state this. They practice this in their exercise. They’ve even had exercises that very closely paralleled what went on in Ossetia, where there was an independence movement, they intervene conventionally to put down the independence movement, the United States and NATO responds with conventional air strikes, they then respond with tactical nuclear weapons."

Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/11/up_to_2_000_killed_as

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 2, 2014 6:14:46 PM | 41

@guest77: Agree.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 2, 2014 6:24:35 PM | 42

@41 From the interview "McCain wants to throw Russia out of the G-8. That is absolutely the worst thing the United States could do..."

And here we go again...

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 2, 2014 6:37:51 PM | 43

McCain is bought and paid for by the arms manufacturers.

Posted by: Willy2 | Mar 2, 2014 6:54:49 PM | 44

According to the Opposition narrative in the closing days of the Maidan, the white armband is a device the Titushki (government provocateurs) use so that they can identify each other. This is supposedly "according to numerous reports"

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-intense-violence-in-kiev/

although if you google the phrase "except for white ribbon armbands so they can identify each other" you will find all the reports use exactly the same wording and it is very likely a sound bite fed by the opposition to journalists, which would allow protesters wearing while armbands to commit whatever acts of vandalism they chose and blame it on the government. This was the opposition line from early on - that its protesters were peaceful and just sang and waved flags and signs while all those who attacked the police were actually Titushki who were doing it to make the activists look bad. Although the Titushki were plainly able to move freely in their hundreds among the peaceful protesters, nobody ever captured one, although they were able to capture several of the Berkut riot police who one would think would make much tougher targets.

So I suppose the intent of the white-armband bunch who tried to take over public buildings is the groundwork for an Opposition accusation that Titushki are operating in the Crimea and attempting to frame the peaceful opposition. Why would government provocateurs attempt to gain control of a building which is already under control of the forces they wish to win the conflict?

Posted by: Mark | Mar 2, 2014 8:07:56 PM | 45


http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/articles/analysis/17013-ukraine-a-peoples-revolution

A power vacuum has been created and some very frightening forces could fill it writes Alastair Stephens


I would like to add an important point to this article: I see the coup / putsch / fall of the government as a "bolshevik type revolution", this time from the right and the far right. Yanukovitch government was a "Kerenski" type of government, elected by the majority but couldn't use its power in the interest of at least the majority; and the right wing parties are trying to catch the power center of the country (Kiev) to gain control over the whole of the country. But the ukrainian army was not involved in the events, just kept very quiet.

As the bolshevik did 1917 in St. Petersburg with taking control of the country's power center, the government structures and most importantly the army chain of command the unelected "new government" in Kiev also tries. Obviously they don't have any influence in the army, only in some parts of the police and security forces. Maybe in 1917 that kind of political gambling was justied for the moment to terminate the bloody war in Russia. But in today's situation there is no justification in a democratic sense for this kind of "revolution".

And all the western powers just crying foul against their russian counterpart because they want to keep the gift "Ukraine" which was swept into their arms just by chance, by a so-called revolution. All the window talk about democracy etc. disappears immediately when you see an opportunity....

Posted by: thomas | Mar 3, 2014 2:17:17 AM | 46

46) I don't find historical parallels helpful - they hide more, than they explain. There is too much history in the area already.

Like in a sorcerer's trick we are made to look at "the people's power of Maidan" and not see what was going on:

- a liberal/Western ultranationalist/fascist alliance
- a coup outside of elections and political discourse
- a political programme designed to cause tension
- the justification of armed struggle/insurrection within Europe in European mainstream media - all those historical parallels doing the same trick

In a German context it would be Westerwelle/Merkel uniting with Thuringian/Saxonian NeoNazis in front of Brandenburg Gate to take power from a Grüne/Socialdemocrat/Die Linke government by the barrel of the gun.

German politicians very wisely form coalitions across the political center to avoid this scenario. We lived trough this catastrophe before.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 3, 2014 4:22:41 AM | 47

Somebody,
Plainly speaking, it is just the same old bargain: 1991/OK, we'll solve the Palestinian issue, but the price to pay is Iraq, because our allies in the Gulf are anxious of these socialists and secularists; 2011/OK, we'll solve the Palestinian issue, but the price to pay is Syria, because our allies in the Gulf are anxious; 2014/OK, you were right about Syria, but the price to pay is Ukraine...

Posted by: Mina | Mar 3, 2014 5:05:33 AM | 48

By the way, I love Angie more and more. Didn't she say "I am between the devil and the deep blue sea, and that's a very uncomfortable position for a German chancellor," just 3 days ago, and this was a direct allusion to Ukraine, in my opinion.
No wonder the BBC and MSM have made the whole speech hard to find... (I linked to it 2 days ago but cannot find it anymore, neither through the bbc website or through google, although i find the video of the speech)

Posted by: Mina | Mar 3, 2014 5:15:16 AM | 49

49) That was presumably on a British split from the EU - Europe does not really work for Britain.

EU needs Ukraine like a terminal malady just US neocons con Western Ukraine into thinking otherwise ...

Posted by: somebody | Mar 3, 2014 5:50:58 AM | 50

Europe has worked very fine for Britain in bailing out their bankrupt universities with millions of euros in "projects" and "EU scholarships" while their universities were already very expensive to start with!

Posted by: Mina | Mar 3, 2014 6:06:10 AM | 51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IIvM_u5xfjo
In the above video, a Ukrainian Member of Parliament says that NATO snipers appear to have shot at both sides during the recent events in Ukraine.
(shades of Venezuela 2002, Syria 2011 egypt 2013 etc)

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/nato-troops-shot-both-sides-in-ukraine.html

Posted by: brian | Mar 3, 2014 6:10:28 AM | 52

A BBC journalist looks with anxiety at the only democratic possibility: a referendum:
"Mark Lowen BBC News, Sevastopol

tells the BBC World Service's World Update programme: "The concern for Kiev is that if Crimea is finally lost, if it is annexed by Moscow or indeed when they hold an independent referendum as is planned in a month, could this spread to eastern Ukraine proper, to cities like Donetsk and Kharkiv, where there have been large pro-Russia demonstrations? Will the Russian groups there look to Crimea and say, 'Well, if they can do it, so can we'?" "

Posted by: Mina | Mar 3, 2014 6:30:41 AM | 53

@ 47) what's the problem with drawing lines in history? and how can there be "too" much history at that place?? there is no too much or too little of it....

it's the first time that western democracies alltogether (!!), not a single exemption so far, are openly supporting an armed fascist driven insurrection or revolution, not the usual military or security forces coup d'etats or putschs we have seen in the last decades. All insurrections or revolts have been condemned by western democracies because they normally arise on the left. so it's very funny to now see all of them supporting this "bolshevik" type of insurrection.

Posted by: thomas | Mar 3, 2014 10:11:21 AM | 54

Oh the staggering hypocrisy and the irony! Here is what Obama stated a few moments ago in the Oval Office in the presence of the Zionist Netanyahu and his Zionist entourage:

"What cannot be done is for Russia with impunity to put soldiers on the ground and violate basic principles that are recognized around the world. And uh I think the strong condemnation that its received…indicates the degree that Russia is on the wrong side of history on this. John Kerry’s gonna be travelling to Ukraine to indicate our support for the Ukrainian people."

What he SHOULD HAVE said at that TIMELY meeting is:

What cannot be done is for Israel with impunity to put soldiers on the ground and violate basic principles that are recognized around the world. And uh I think the strong condemnation that its received…indicates the degree that ISRAEL is on the wrong side of history on this. John Kerry’s gonna be travelling to the Palestinian Territories to indicate our support for the Palestinian people.

Just imagine what the reaction of the Zionist masters would be???

How do you say NO MORAL AUTHORITY whatsoever???

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 3, 2014 3:52:18 PM | 55

Someone here appropriately described what happened in Ukraine as a "gift" that fell into America's arms. I agree that's how the U.S. dreamed it and that's why they're so bitter and vindictive that Putin rushed in to burst their balloon. IT WAS ALL A SICK DREAM.

Putin must have thought: Not so fast! You're not getting into my backyard by exploiting this situation.

Kerry's on his way to Ukraine on a fool's quest. Go home Kerry, stick your nose where it belongs and take your self-righteous platitudes and shove them where the sun don't shine. America's dsyfunctional, run by a patsy for ziocons, wolves on Wall Street and a bunch of crazy old buzzards in Congress sending other people's young off to die in insane wars that leave nothing behind but death and destruction in their wake and deplete the hard-earned wages of the working class. So much to be proud of - blech!

Posted by: kalithea | Mar 4, 2014 2:47:43 AM | 56

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