Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 24, 2014

Ukraine: NSA "Leak" As A Threat To Merkel

The United States and the EU disagree about the Ukraine. The Europeans would prefer not to incite the Russians (hey, they deliver the gas that heats our homes) and would prefer some compromise outcome in the Ukraine. That was the very reason why the EU financial offer to the Ukraine was paltry to begin with and had to be rejected. The U.S. wants a confrontation with Russia and a totally compliant puppet regime in Ukraine. While Merkel would like to install her protege boxer Klitschko in the Ukraine she does not want to pay for it - at least not much. The U.S. dislikes Merkel's choice and wants to install its own oligarch. That the very reason why the neocon U.S. assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland said "fuck the EU".

Now the U.S. managed to take down the political structure in the Ukraine and it wants to take over the whole show. But it still wants Europe, especially Germany, to pay for the mess.

Thus this OpEd by a U.S. propagandist Ulrich Speck in today's NYT: What the West Must Do for Ukraine

Because the offer was so weak, the door was open for Mr. Putin to sabotage it and for Mr. Yanukovych to reject it. Now the European Union needs to come back with a better offer — not just association, but membership.
...
Ms. Merkel must now show courage and strategic competence. If Eastern Europe becomes unstable, Germany will be affected too — and deeply so. Only Berlin has the necessary weight and connections to bring all key players on board to make significant change possible.

Interesting how the "west" is now reduced to Berlin paying up - and nothing else is meant here. And notice that little threat if "Eastern Europe becomes unstable, Germany will be affected too"? "Nice house you have there. Too bad if something would happen to it."

There was an additional reminder this weekend for Mrs Merkel that she better do what she is told:

The U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) has stepped up its surveillance of senior German government officials since being ordered by Barack Obama to halt its spying on Chancellor Angela Merkel, Bild am Sonntag paper reported on Sunday.
...
Bild am Sonntag said its information stemmed from a high-ranking NSA employee in Germany and that those being spied on included Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere, a close confidant of Merkel.

A "high-ranking NSA employee in Germany" talking to Germany's most pro-U.S. broadsheet is not a whistle blower but an official issuing an authorized leak meant as a threat.

The notice to Merkel: Pay up and don't even think of brokering a deal with Putin behind our back.

Posted by b on February 24, 2014 at 17:45 UTC | Permalink

Comments

That's one of the main reasons I thought Putin should be more assertive publicly. Whatever his policies to safeguard the Russian interests are, his public posture should reflect, especially in time of crisis like that, principled positions. By showing firmness when publicly talking towards Germany for ex. he would have enormously dented the objectives of the "Western camp". Now, Eastern Partnership project, devised when the strategy in US/EU shifted from open agression to "defensive push", is back on the track and this is not something that is meant to benefit Russia.

Posted by: ATH | Feb 24 2014 18:17 utc | 1

Ah, Ulrich "Professor Anti-Semitism" Spreck himself, eh? (NOTE: maybe Mr. Spreck would care to comment on TODAY'S follow-up article by Lenni Brenner on the history of Zionist collaboration with fascist anti-Semites? I mean, how else is a rational person to make sense of the cooperation that radical Western Zionists like Nuland, McCain, Rice, et al. have given to the blatantly fascist and anti-Semitic Ukrainian protestors?)

Here's a piece Spreck did last November in the Swiss rag he works for, get a load of this sh!te (Google translated):

However, Armenia has the pressure from Moscow flexed. The country is dependent on Russian goodwill , given the half- frozen conflict with Azerbaijan over Nagorno- Karabakh can not afford tensions with Moscow. Ukraine , however , the most important country in the Eastern Partnership , refuses - although the President Yanukovych was long regarded as Moscow - hearing. But Yanukovych seems determined to lead the country in association with the EU, even against massive Russian pressure. Whether this will happen is still questionable . The EU sees the release from prison of opposition leader Tymoshenko as a prerequisite for signing .

With the preparation of contracts of association with the countries of the Eastern Partnership, the EU has entered into a geopolitical competition with Russia. After years in which the EU has asserted that she was only interested in win- win solutions for the mutual profit, it now turns out open competition with Russia. Because the association is exclusive : the countries of the Eastern Partnership can only bind to one side , since the terms of the agreement are incompatible with each other .

And yet both actors are not equal. For the Kremlin, who sees the world in a classic geopolitical terms of power and spheres of influence , it's about control and domination . For the EU , however, it is really about strengthening and stabilizing the neighborhood through the acquisition of the successful model of liberal democracy and the market economy. The EU offers help and lures, while Russia has threatened to open.

The fact that the EU can now occur on the common neighborhood in competition with Russia, is that Putin has lost despite all macho on the outside political influence. The Eastern Partnership countries feel threatened by a Kremlin Mr. occurring aggressive and abides by no rules , so they strive to west. The Europeans for their part have given up hope for a speedy modernization of Russia and are now largely immune to temptations and threats from Moscow . Europe towards Russia gained self -confidence and unity and is ready to play the game of geopolitics, which the Kremlin forced the Europeans.

Besides the HILARIOUS parts about the EU wanting "liberal democracy" - Greece? Italy? Ukraine? - and strengthening a "market economy" (cough - neoliberal slavery - cough), I like the part about Timoshenko's release being a pre-req for the EU deal.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24 2014 18:28 utc | 2

Some news left unnoticed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26259956
Phone-hacking trial: Blair 'advised Brooks before arrest'
A whole week has passed and no arrest warrant against Blair? It's time to accelerate the screwing of the EU! Things are getting really bad up there!

Egypt: it's always better not to have a government when hard positions are supposed to be taken, such as the recognition of Ukraine thugs.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/95116/Egypt/Politics-/After-ElBeblawis-resignation,-whats-next-.aspx
(and the good news here is that part of the purge is the infamous irresponsible interior ministry)

Posted by: Mina | Feb 24 2014 18:29 utc | 3

Another good article on the what awaits Ukraine:

The myth of prosperity to follow EU integration and bailouts is just that, a myth. The reality is pain and suffering on a scale far greater than the poverty and unemployment Ukraine, especially the western portion of the country, have already experienced. The most highly educated, those most equipped to take up the mantle of leadership, will flee en masse. Those leaders who remain will do so while lining their pockets and ingratiating themselves to the European and American financiers who will flock to Ukraine like vultures to carrion. In short, the corruption and mismanagement of the Yanukovich government will seem like a pleasant memory.

The “liberalization” that Europe demands will create massive profits for speculators, but very few jobs for working people. The best land will be sold to foreign corporations and land-grabbers, while the resources, including the highly regarded agricultural sector, will be stripped and sold on the world market, leaving farmers and city dwellers alike in grinding poverty, their children going to bed hungry. This will be the “success” of Ukraine. One shudders to think what failure would look like.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24 2014 18:37 utc | 4

A very sensitive and interesting analysis. And convincing.
It seems when nations are trying to delicately balance their diplomacy (like Germany was between US & Russia) their plans can best be scrambled by causing a crisis and making them choose sides.
The US doesn't like a strong Germany-Russia relationship.

Posted by: ess emm | Feb 24 2014 18:45 utc | 5

So Germany is supposed to pay for the high Russian price of gas :-))

Whatever they try, Putin wins.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 18:45 utc | 6

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24, 2014 1:37:30 PM | 4

Your welcome;)

Posted by: jo6pac | Feb 24 2014 18:45 utc | 7

I have to disagree with b here.

Germany is not at all "innocent", merkel has *not* tried to be friendly to Putin.
From what we know merkel and her foreign minister have been involved massively and they have payed terrorists.

I think the game concerning Germany is different. zusa attacks merkel for one reason only: to make it look like merkel had her own, different (from zusa) and "Putin friendly" approach so as to cover the truth. Germany still is an occupied zone and German chancellors still get their orders from washington.
It seems reasonable therefore to assume that merkel has been a tool of zusa all along, playing a seemingly somewhat line that, however, in the core was absolutely congruent with zusas line.

It should also be noted that merkel didn't do the least to calm the situation. Quite the contrary, she texted timochenko (and supported her anyway since a long time) and, even worse, she accepted to illegal "new government" of ukraine.

This was extremely stupid. Because now Germany has to be the bad party for zusa who has to pay and clean up while at the same time merkel provoked Russia in a major way.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 24 2014 19:03 utc | 8

Mr Pragma is right both US and EU of course hate the russians, I thought this was obvious after everything that have happend?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 24 2014 19:13 utc | 9

9) Of course not. You can be sure if you ask Germans close to 90% will consider Ukrainians to be Russians :-))

This is a recent survey:

Bezüglich der Beziehungen zu Russland ist die Gesellschaft gespalten – die Gruppe, die auf Zusammenarbeit setzt, ist fast genauso groß (48%), wie die Gruppe, die die Verteidigung der deutschen Interessen einfordert (43%)

German society is split on the relationship with Russia. 48% demand cooperation whilst 43% insist on defending German interests. And

Aus sieben Bevölkerungsgruppen, nach denen in den Untersuchungen gefragt wurde, empfinden die Deutschen am meisten Sympathie für die Holländer (55%) und die Franzosen (50%). In der weiteren Reihenfolge stehen die Amerikaner (43%) und die Briten (37%). Den Polen bringen etwa ein Viertel der Deutschen Sympathie entgegen, womit diese auf dem sechsten Platz, dem vorletzten vor Russland (15%) aber hinter den Griechen (34%) rangieren.

Translation: 55% have sympathies for Dutch people, 50% for the French, 43% for US Americans and 37% for British people, 34% for Greek people. About 25% for Polish people, 15% for Russian people.

Turns out Germans are pretty xenophobic as far as "sympathy" is concerned. That is not the same as "hate" though, and does not mean rejection of cooperation or acceptance.

Germans do have a problem understanding corruption and mafia like structures though.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 19:47 utc | 10

Germany's strategic policies towards both Nato and EU have a lots of inherent contradictions and potentially exploitable path by Russia. Merkel is the face of the public politic she'is not defining the interests of Germany, she's trying, or at least pretending to try, to execute a policy defending them.

Historically the most powerful continental power in Europe and located in the heart of its civilization, Germany cannot be completely anchored to an Atlanticist Nato circle, neither separated from the eastern Europe. The Nato current push to extend to the Eastern side by excluding and isolating Russia is not necessarily in the interests of Germany. Even if she thinks that the ultimate goal is to completely break-up Russia into European and Asian parts, she highly risks to get engulfed in an unstable and war-torn buffer zone on her eastern frontiers for an un-seeable future.

Being the economic engine of Europe, Germany getting absorbed by economic problems to her East, will definitely weaken a bit more the finances of the Western and Southern Europe, already in a dire straight. This goes ultimately counter to her strategic post-war choice of making trade and commerce in her neighborhood prevail over everything to prevent generalized wars.

The best policy for Russia here is surely to publicly show a non-adverserial but firm and principled position to Germany. This will oblige her to take public stance, exarcebating a little more the internal contradictions.

Posted by: ATH | Feb 24 2014 19:48 utc | 11

Right now the fascists seems to try to ban all opposition parties in Ukraine. This is the result when west intervene.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 24 2014 19:49 utc | 12

12) It is a desaster. But as b. says - the US presumably went for destabilization. I think the fascists are their CIA cold war connections. France, Germany, Poland tried to prevent the worst, but the power then was in the street, as the EU and US had effectively frightened Yanukovich off from defending the state. I am very suspicious on how these demonstrators' deaths were provoked, I think they were needed as justification to remove Yanukovich.
There is this study of the Manufacturing of the Rumanian revolution - including the sniper death needed to make the accusations stick.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 20:20 utc | 13

somebody

No EU are as bad as US have you already forgot who created Klitschko?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 24 2014 20:28 utc | 14

14) He has earned his wealth with his hands and his party is funded by the Ukrainian oligarchy. There is no reason to assume he is under the control of Germany in any way. But of course he has excellent contacts to German conservative politicians and the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung supports him. They are not really betting on a winner there.
Of course Germany was part of the operation. They just have different interests from the US.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 21:29 utc | 15

anyone interested in german foreign policy should have a look at www.german-foreign-policy.com.It is in english,done by german diplomats.You will see the dream of hegemony that Germany harbors ….Merkel is playing with fire and is a war criminal,selling gas to bahraini authorities to gas their own population(in some people some ideas die hard),participating in the destabilization of Syria.And I am not forgetting the obscene role of Germany in ex Yougoslavia.The elite in Germany is obviously taking the path of revenge for the past,Anyone listening to the german President very aggressive declarations and german think tanks grandiose plans to grab other countries resources?

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 24 2014 21:31 utc | 16

bribing people inn Crimea ... speeches atwitter at UNHCR twitter:

1. Dr.Marine Melkonian ‏@UNHRC_President 6 hrs
Armenia, as President of the UN Council for Human Rights, recognized the new government in Ukraine,

(that’s illegal as the new ‘government’ was arrived at by COUP not voting)

1. Dr.Marine Melkonian ‏@UNHRC_President 6 hrs
Armenia, as President of the UN Council for Human Rights, recognized the new government in Ukraine, and calls on all Ukrainians to unity
(is this the will of the Armenian people?0

1. Dr.Marine Melkonian ‏@UNHRC_President 8 hrs
The leader of the movement "Democratic and Free Ukraine", Minister of Defence of Ukraine,
(those words ‘democratic’ and ‘free’ are bogus words t gull the foolish)

NOTE:THIS is call bribery!
1. Dr.Marine Melkonian ‏@UNHRC_President 10 hrs
the recognition of the Armenian Genocide in Turkey by the Ukraine
2. Dr.Marine Melkonian ‏@UNHRC_President 10 hrs
The new Ukrainian Minister of Defence of Armenian descent, mr. Sergey Markarian promised the Armenian community in Crimea,

Posted by: brian | Feb 24 2014 21:40 utc | 17

Wow, somebody13, that is an amazing film on how revolutions are manufactured pretty much from scratch by CIA. Chilling.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 24 2014 21:41 utc | 18

somebody

Really, so what are US goal vs german/EU goal on Ukraine?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 24 2014 21:47 utc | 19

How dare the US/UK say they dislikes Merkel's choice
after she owns the whole bloody EU anyway.

Posted by: chris m | Feb 24 2014 22:52 utc | 20

@13,18. Chilling stuff. I look back at those times and kick myself for being such a sucker for the MSM. I remember watching the TV, getting all emotional for the poor "dissidents." I was played.

Posted by: ruralito | Feb 24 2014 23:12 utc | 21

Zbig also said Germany has to come up with some big cash. Here's a reference to it in Bloomberg but right after this sentence in the Charlie Rose interview, he specifically cited the Germans.

"'The Europeans have to face the fact that if they want to be true to their word, they also have to fork over some cash,' former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew K. Brzezinski said on the Charlie Rose show late last week, as events were unfolding that led to the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych."

Here is the Zbig interview:
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/zbigniew-brzezinski-charlie-rose-02-21-5_Gq5oTZQCWe1rKuNbaU8Q.html

And a couple of days ago, @zbig also tweeted that Europe has to provide swift financial aid. I took that to me, get the EU deal locked in before any elections are held.

Posted by: gemini333 | Feb 24 2014 23:19 utc | 22

From Common Dreams... Snowden 2.0: Is There a New Active Duty NSA Whistleblower?

Report in German paper cites "high level NSA employee," but it wasn't Snowden. Is there more where this came from?

Posted by: CTuttle | Feb 25 2014 0:22 utc | 23

Putin ordered Yanukovych to go

http://qz.com/180453/putin-may-have-helped-to-convince-ukrainian-leader-to-go/

Posted by: maimar | Feb 25 2014 0:25 utc | 24

I find it weird that outside commentators would question b's political judgement about a political process going on in Germany. His analysis sounds informed but it might be wrong; however it is better than opinions based entirely on ideology.

Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 25 2014 0:35 utc | 25

maimar (23)

What a stupid and base less hear-say-speculation piece.

For a starter, there is nothing proving him calling Putin. Someone tells that someone else has said tat he was going to call Putin. In other word: lowest level hear say.

But even if he did call Putin, one can not reasonably deduce from yanukovichs reaction - which again isn't directly observed; there merely is someone saying that yanukovichs reaction was this or that - that Putin has told "You should leave" (or give up).

Actually another interpretation sees far more realistic. yanukovich is pushed to give up. But he doesn't want to. So, as so often before he tries to play sides against each other, demanding Putin to protect him and to keep him in power. And Putin simply says "No, I will not send troups to save you".

And btw.. even the author of that doubtful "article", unlike you, does not say "Putin ordered Yanukovych to go". All he says is that according to his interpretation of things told to him it *might* have been like that.


ToivoS (24)

I find it weird that outside commentators would question b's political judgement about a political process going on in Germany.

First thing first: I utmost doubt that an intelligent and well experienced man like b needs help or protection by you.

And, well, ... OBVIOUSLY b WANTS his insights questioned and discussed. After all, he chose to run this discussion style rather than simply posting articles.

Last but not least: According to your "logic" we can all just leave MoA because we don't live in most of the countries we talk about. On the other hand, but this might be outside of your intellectual reach, foreigner who inform themselves and look for quality, actually quite often know more about political issues than most local people who, if at all, read the dailymail or the like.

Si tacuisses ...

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 1:45 utc | 26

maimar (23)

What a stupid and base less hear-say-speculation piece.

For a starter, there is nothing proving him calling Putin. Someone tells that someone else has said tat he was going to call Putin. In other word: lowest level hear say.

But even if he did call Putin, one can not reasonably deduce from yanukovichs reaction - which again isn't directly observed; there merely is someone saying that yanukovichs reaction was this or that - that Putin has told "You should leave" (or give up).

Actually another interpretation sees far more realistic. yanukovich is pushed to give up. But he doesn't want to. So, as so often before he tries to play sides against each other, demanding Putin to protect him and to keep him in power. And Putin simply says "No, I will not send troups to save you".

And btw.. even the author of that doubtful "article", unlike you, does not say "Putin ordered Yanukovych to go". All he says is that according to his interpretation of things told to him it *might* have been like that.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 1:45 utc | 27

ToivoS (24)

I find it weird that outside commentators would question b's political judgement about a political process going on in Germany.
First thing first: I utmost doubt that an intelligent and well experienced man like b needs help or protection by you.

And, well, ... OBVIOUSLY b WANTS his insights questioned and discussed. After all, he chose to run this discussion style rather than simply posting articles.

Last but not least: According to your "logic" we can all just leave MoA because we don't live in most of the countries we talk about. On the other hand, but this might be outside of your intellectual reach, foreigner who inform themselves and look for quality, actually quite often know more about political issues than most local people who, if at all, read the dailymail or the like.

Si tacuisses ...

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 1:46 utc | 28

Toivo @24 I wasn't questioning b's political judgment, if you're directing that barb at me, I shared it to show how the Left blogs are treating it...!

Glennzilla wrote about it also, today...

Yesterday, the German paper Bild am Sonntag reported that after President Obama ordered the NSA to cease its eavesdropping on the communications of Chancellor Angela Merkel, they responded by increasing their surveillance of her closest ministers and advisers. Aside from providing yet another illustration of the out-of-control entitlement that drives the U.S. Surveillance State, note that the report is based on “a high-ranking NSA employee in Germany”, which means that this is yet another NSA source to come forward to disclose the agency’s once-secret acts.

Posted by: CTuttle | Feb 25 2014 2:06 utc | 29

This is four years old (2010), but I can't find anything newer.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/

Ukraine Says ’No’ to NATO

Ukraine’s new governing coalition recently announced its intention to pass a law against joining military alliances, which will fulfill Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych’s campaign promise to prevent Ukraine from becoming a member in NATO. The new president’s opponents in parliament argue that this new strategy may result in pushing Ukraine back into the Russian “sphere of influence” and out of the European fold.

However, Yanukovych’s move to ban Ukraine from joining NATO is not without a base of public support. A September 2009 survey by the Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes Project, found that half of Ukrainians (51%) opposed their country’s admission to NATO, while only 28% favored such a step. Moreover, given the opposition to membership, it is not surprising that about half of Ukrainians (51%) gave NATO an unfavorable rating.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 25 2014 3:34 utc | 30

Sorry, OT, but this is incredibly interesting to me:

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/#comment-5000

via Greenwald at The Intercept (thanks CTuttle)

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 25 2014 3:40 utc | 31

@ 28
Nice find. That's an interesting factoid. It has other interesting facts like

More recent polling in January 2010 by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) found Ukrainians expressing an overwhelmingly positive view of Russia — more than nine-in-ten (93%) said they had a good attitude towards Russia.

Posted by: J. Bradley | Feb 25 2014 4:40 utc | 32

guest(#27)
It is a rather interesting turn of events, because I remember that in the 80's people were dying to get into EU. Turks used to think of it as their ultimate national dream -though to a much lesser extent they still crave for it (for reasons that are completely irrelevant to economics and prosperity but rather has very much to do with a fear of internal dynamics pushing Turkey towards an Islamic state). We have come from that to a point that EU for its expansion has to resort to coup based on fascism!

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Feb 25 2014 5:02 utc | 33

Overnight, I slept on that chilling film somebody@13 put up. Several realizations - when Nuland said "fuck the Eu", all she meant was 'forget the EU, this is our (US) show, and we'll handle this coup ourselves'. Also, when you think about how many coups the CIA has done since 1959, dozens and dozens, and how willing they are to spend years and years setting them up, it's seems apparent to me that, as Tom Perkins said in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" that there isn't a single country in the world that has the slightest immunity to being overthrown if the USA determines that's what they want to do, not even US' closest allies. What was so clear in somebody's film, because two CIA guys had starring roles, is that CIA is the lead terror agency in the world, AND, no one is safe from them if they come after you.

Here's some more info about setting up coups:

Overnight, I slept on that chilling film somebody@13 put up. Several realizations - when Nuland said "fuck the Eu", all she meant was 'forget the EU, this is our (US) show, and we'll handle this coup ourselves'. Also, when you think about how many coups the CIA has done since 1959, dozens and dozens, and how willing they are to spend years and years setting them up, it's seems apparent to me that, as Tom Perkins said in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" that there isn't a single country in the world that has the slightest immunity to being overthrown if the USA determines that's what they want to do, not even US' closest allies. What was so clear in somebody's film, because two CIA guys had starring roles, is that CIA is the lead terror agency in the world, AND, no one is safe from them if they come after you.

Here's some more info about setting up coups:

Overnight, I slept on that chilling film somebody@13 put up. Several realizations - when Nuland said "fuck the Eu", all she meant was 'forget the EU, this is our (US) show, and we'll handle this coup ourselves'. Also, when you think about how many coups the CIA has done since 1959, dozens and dozens, and how willing they are to spend years and years setting them up, it's seems apparent to me that, as Tom Perkins said in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" that there isn't a single country in the world that has the slightest immunity to being overthrown if the USA determines that's what they want to do, not even US' closest allies. What was so clear in somebody's film, because two CIA guys had starring roles, is that CIA is the lead terror agency in the world, AND, no one is safe from them if they come after you.

Here's some more info about setting up coups, etc:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 25 2014 5:20 utc | 34

Sorry folks, I have no idea how that happened.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 25 2014 5:21 utc | 35

Who would have thought! Via ZeroHedge:

Ukraine's President-In-Hiding Yanukovich Located In Russian Base In Sevastopol, Preparing To Depart For Russia

[...] his latest location is the Russian military base in Sevastopol, the one place where the Ukraine government, legitimate or not, will never dare to tread. UNIAN adds that Yanukovich will "board a landing ship of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, which the deposed president will use to go to Russia, according to TV channel ATR." [...]

And another article by ZeroHedge on one of the many screws Russia can turn to fine tune its relationship with Ukraine's new regime.
Russia Fires First Retaliatory Salvo, May Limit Ukraine Food Imports

[...] the IMF's first move to bail the nation out has now been met by a subtle punch to the country's kidneys as Interfax reports that Russia threatens to limit food imports on the basis of "veterinary and phytosanitary risks." [...]


Posted by: Juan Moment | Feb 25 2014 5:47 utc | 36

is it just coincidence that *uprising* tends to pop up when there's major event going on in china or russia ?

off hands these come to mind, there might be more.

*tam* erupted just weeks before gorbachev state visit to china in 1989

rioters gone amok in lhasa during the 2008 olympic in beijing.

jihadists perpetrated a bloodbath in xinjiang, 2009 while hu was attending the g8 meeting, he had to scurry back unceremoniously.

ukraine got regime changed while russia is basking in the limelight of sochi ?

could it be that whenever the chinese ,russians are planning a big party, someone in langley is also preparing a big *gift* to the hosts ?

the advantages are obvious,
1] imagine if the host country inadvertently committed a bloodbath right under the spotlight of the whole world, the asshole in langley would be wanking himself before the tv.

2] if the host country , trying to avoid such an outcome, order maximum restraint by the security forces, so much the better, it'd give the *swarming adolescents* a free hand in toppling the government.

either way, its win win for the sobs.


Posted by: denk | Feb 25 2014 5:59 utc | 37

@13 - somebody. thanks for sharing that video - checkmake- the strategy of a revolution in 6 parts.. anyone who hasn't seen it, would benefit from watching it. here is the link for anyone who missed it the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF-LSrsd0fw&list=PL964277E4AFA4946B

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2014 6:31 utc | 38

@31 okie - your comments are interesting. what is the end purpose for the mayhem in ukraine at present, if you are able to get inside the cia's mind for a moment, assuming that they have played a central role in this?
the only thing i can come up with is the cia serves financial interests and making ukraine economically dependent on the imf - ie - the world bankers who don't give a rats ass about anyone.. it seems short sighted to think the cia has some intelligent design in all of this, as opposed to them playing a role of destabilizing a country for the benefit of the world bankers.. that is how i see it, if indeed the cia is all that smart. to me they seem like a puppet in all of this as well.

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2014 6:38 utc | 39

This here is Bloomberg

The IMF loan won't be enough on its own. The U.S. and European Union should make it clear to Ukrainians that they are ready to chip in, on the condition that any transitional government is inclusive and follows the rule of law. The EU should, in addition, reopen negotiations to sign the trade and association agreement Yanukovych refused in November, as well as offer Ukraine a clear path to potential membership, something the bloc has until now refused to do.

Finally, although Putin overplayed his hand -- it is now inconceivable that a united Ukraine would opt to join his Eurasian Union, for example -- he continues to hold powerful cards. Russia can still throttle its neighbor's economy by closing the borders to trade, or by raising the price Ukraine pays for natural gas. It can also stir up pro-Russian populations in Crimea and the east, or even send in troops.

The trick is getting Russia to work with European nations in furthering its interests -- which are not necessarily at odds with those of the Western world. There is a deal to be had here that, in truth, has always been on the table: Ukraine will not join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which Putin sees as hostile, because a majority of Ukrainians don't want to. Ukraine will, however, slowly integrate further with the EU. Putin should now make it clear he will not stand in the way.


To translate this into a US context: It is like telling the US to open the border with Mexico.

But it now has all the ingredients of Yougoslavia. Western Ukrainian politicians will want to split Ukraine now as a) they have no majority in the whole of the country b) they hope to integrate their economy with the EU which is their Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian neighbourhood, people are told they will get EU passports as the US promises.

Western amabassadors will keep on demanding they should be inclusive whilst they ban Russian as official language, forbid the Party of the Regions and the Communist party, and parade their Fascists.

Eastern politicians know they have the majority of the population and will continue to be much more flexible. They will not put up a fight for the unity of Ukraine though, just defend their parts from a takeover .

Have a look how it worked for Ex-Yougoslavia: In the EU now - Croatia, Slovenia - the rich industrialized part. Not in the EU the rest. Western Ukraine is the poor agricultural part. I do not think the US has leverage to make the EU act against their interest.

But of course, in split off Western Ukraine there will be a majority for NATO.

It is out of German news now, it is too toxic.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 6:41 utc | 40

JEWS; UKRAINE, THE HARVESTING OF CHILDREN'S ORGANS

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 25 2014 7:07 utc | 41

38) :-)) from your link

Ukraine's Orange Revolution looked like a CIA operation to replace a set of pro-Russian oligarchs with a set of pro-American oligarchs.

Ian Traynor, in The Guardian 26 November 2004 (US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev.), described the Ukraine's Orange Revolution as 'an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing..."

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 7:25 utc | 42

The Ukraine: Neo-Nazi criminal state looming in the centre of Europe ...gouged out eye, cut off hand of a policeman...

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 25 2014 7:29 utc | 43

40) I consider voltairenet Syrian disinformation. It is not credible.

36) I think US cold war assets have acquired a life of their own.


Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 7:58 utc | 44

Brilliant & Easy to swallow , by Paul Craig Roberts :


...Who’s in charge? Certainly not the bought-and-paid-for-moderates that Washington and the EU hoped to install as the new government of Ukraine. The agreement that the Washington and EU supported opposition concluded with President Yanukovich to end the crisis did not last an hour. Even the former boxing champion, Vitaly Klitschko, who was riding high as an opposition leader until a few hours ago has been booed by the rioters and shoved aside.

The newly appointed president by what is perhaps an irrelevant parliament, Oleksandr Turchynov, has no support base among those who overthrew the government. As the BBC reports, “like all of the mainstream opposition politicians, Mr. Turchynov is not entirely trusted or respected by the protesters in Kiev’s Independence Square.”

In western Ukraine the only organized and armed force is the ultra-nationalist Right Sector. From the way this group’s leaders speak, they assume that they are in charge. One of the group’s leaders, Aleksandr Muzychko, has pledged to fight against “Jews and Russians until I die.” Asserting the Right Sector’s authority over the situation, Muzychko declared that now that the democratically elected government has been overthrown, “there will be order and discipline” or “Right Sector squads will shoot the bastards on the spot.”

The bastards are any protesters who dare to protest the Right Sector’s control.

Muzychko declared, “The next president of Ukraine will be from Right Sector.”

Another Right Sector leader, Dmitry Yarosh, declared: “the Right Sector will not lay down its arms.” He declared the deal made between the opposition and the President to be “unacceptable” and demanded the liquidation of President Yanukovich’s political party.

The Right Sector’s roots go back to the Ukrainians who fought for Adolf Hitler against the Soviet Union during World War 2. It was the Right Sector that introduced armed fighters and turned the tide of the protests in Kiev from peaceful protests in favor of joining the EU to violent attacks on police with the view of overthrowing the democratically elected government, which the Right Sector succeeded in doing.

The Right Sector did not overthrow the Ukraine government in order to deliver it into the hands of the Washington and EU paid “opposition.”

There is a tendency to discount the Right Sector as a small fringe group, but the Right Sector not only took control of the protests away from the Western supported moderates, as moderate leaders themselves admitted, but also the Right Sector has enough public support to destroy the national monument to the Red Army soldiers who died liberating Ukraine from Nazi Germany.

Unlike the US orchestrated toppling of the stature of Saddam Hussein, which was a PR event for the presstitutes in which Iraqis themselves were not involved, Ukrainian rightists’ destruction of the monument commemorating the Red Army’s liberation of the Ukraine had public support. If the Right Sector hates Russians for defeating the Nazis, the Right Sector also hates the US, France, and England for the same reason. The Right Sector is an unlikely political party to take Ukraine into the EU.

The Russian parts of Ukraine clearly understand that the Right Sector’s destruction of the monument commemorating the stand of the Red Army against the German troops is a threat against the Russian population of Ukraine. Provincial governments in eastern and southern Ukraine that formerly were part of Russia are organizing militias against the ultra-nationalist threat unleashed by Washington’s stupidity and incompetence and by the naive and gullible Kiev protesters.

Having interfered in Ukraine’s internal affairs and lost control, Washington is now issuing ultimatums to Russia not to interfere in Ukraine. Does the idiot Susan Rice, Obama’s neoconservative National Security Advisor, think Putin is going to pay any attention to her ultimatums or to any instruction from a government so militarily incompetent that it was unable to successfully occupy Baghdad after 8 years or to defeat a few thousand lightly armed Taliban after 12 years? In only took a few hours for Russian troops to destroy the American and Israeli trained and armed Georgian army that Washington sent to invade South Ossetia.

Where does Obama find morons like Susan Rice and Victoria Nuland? These two belong in a kindergarten for mentally handicapped children, not in the government of a superpower where their ignorance and arrogance can start World War 3.

Ukraine is far more important to Russia than it is to the US or EU. If the situation in Ukraine spirals out of control and right-wing extremists seize control, Russian intervention is certain. The arrogant and stupid Obama regime has carelessly and recklessly created a direct strategic threat to the existence of Russia.

According to the Moscow Times, this is what a senior Russian official has to say: “If Ukraine breaks apart, it will trigger a war.” Ukraine “will lose Crimera first,” because Russia “will go in just as we did in Georgia.” Another Russian official said: “ We will not allow Europe and the US to take Ukraine from us. The states of the former Soviet Union, we are one family. They think Russia is still as weak as in the early 1990s but we are not.”

The Ukrainian right-wing is in a stronger position than Washington’s paid Ukrainian puppets, essentially weak and irrelevant persons who sold out their country for Washington’s money. The Right Sector is organized. It is armed. It is indigenous. It is not dependent on money funneled in from Washington and EU financed NGOs. It has an ideology, and it is focused. The Right Sector doesn’t have to pay its protesters to take to the streets like Washington had to do.

Most importantly, well-meaning but stupid protesters--especially the Kiev students--and an Ukrainian parliament playing to the protesters destroyed Ukrainian democracy. The opposition controlled parliament removed an elected president from office without an election, an obvious illegal and undemocratic action. The opposition controlled parliament issued illegal arrest warrants for members of the president’s government. The opposition controlled parliament illegally released criminals from prison. As the opposition has created a regime of illegality in place of law and constitutional procedures, the field is wide open for the Right Sector. Expect everything the opposition did to Yanukovich to be done to them by the Right Sector. By their own illegal and unconstitutional actions, the opposition has set the precedent for their own demise.

Just as the February 1917 revolution against the Russian Tsar set the stage for the October 1917 Bolshevik Revolution, surprising the stupid “reformers,” the overthrow of the Ukrainian political order has set the stage for the Right Sector. We can only hope that the Right Sector blows its chance.

The American media is a useless news source. It serves as a Ministry for Government Lies. The corrupt propagandists are portraying the undemocratic removal of Yanukovich as a victory for freedom and democracy. When it begins to leak out that everything has gone wrong, the presstitutes will blame it all on Russia and Putin. The Western media is a plague upon humanity.

Americans have no idea that the neoconservative regime of the White House Fool is leading them into a Great Power Confrontation that could end in destruction of life on earth.

Ironic, isn’t it. America’s “first black president,” the person liberals thought would restore justice, morality, and reason to Western civilization, is instead now positioned as the person who will have to accept humiliating defeat or risk the destruction of life on earth...

Posted by: Sufi | Feb 25 2014 8:09 utc | 45

Somebody 15

So what are the difference btween US vs EU/Germany on the goal for Ukraine?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 8:14 utc | 46

gouged out eye, cut off hand of a policeman...

And the Brits have been asked to investigate!

Posted by: hans | Feb 25 2014 8:17 utc | 47

james@36, I agree with you, even the precursor to the CIA, Office of Strategic Services, fomented coups in South and Central America to benefit US multinational corps. Politics is basically about one thing - money. Everything else it's purported to be is propaganda whither it comes from left or right. Yes, US full spectrum intelligence/covert ops serves multinational corps slavishly. Evidently that's what they were created for. Wild Bill Donovan said as much.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 25 2014 8:19 utc | 48

Interesting that the US help installing fascists in power in Hungary and now Ukraine. Screwing the EU is just too easy to resist. They don't want to let them recover from the economic crisis and are happy to annoy Putin, who has not be conciliant on Syria. Then we'll come the NATO bases and missile launchers.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 8:25 utc | 49

Mina, US coup makers don't care if it's fascists or Islamic jihadists, they'll work with anyone. Witness the rice farmers in violent protest in Thailand. Anyone. Anyone, who will (or even might) do neoliberalization of their country. As we saw following elections in both Iran and Russia, when the coup makers fail, they just double down and dive into their next attempt. In fact, Fascism is neoliberal economics by an earlier name.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 25 2014 8:45 utc | 50

To meditate
http://rt.com/news/five-eyes-online-manipulation-deception-564/

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 8:46 utc | 51

Stories from Homs
http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/syria-fighters-and-mice-all-remain-old-homs

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 8:53 utc | 52

Russia Fires First Retaliatory Salvo, May Limit Ukraine Food Imports
Tyler Durden's pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on 02/24/2014 13:41 -0500

International Monetary Fund Ukraine

Russia represents over 25% of Ukraine's exports and is the divided nation's largest trade partner. As Ukraine remains deep in its self-described "pre-default" state, the economy languishes vainly in the hopes of a trade deal with 'someone' and a bailout from 'someone' else. However, the IMF's first move to bail the nation out has now been met by a subtle punch to the country's kidneys as Interfax reports that Russia threatens to limit food imports on the basis of "veterinary and phytosanitary risks."

Via Interfax,

Russia and the Customs Union could temporarily limit increased-risk food imports from Ukraine, given fears of loose safety control, said Sergei Dankvert, head of the Russian veterinary and phytosanitary oversight service Rosselkhoznadzor.

"My Belarusian colleague and I are extremely concerned about the situation in Ukraine. We do not rule out that curbs could be introduced on the imports of products of high veterinary and phytosanitary risks from Ukraine," Dankvert told Interfax after talks with his Belarusian counterpart Yury Pivovarchik in Bryansk, and telephone talks with Ukraine's Deputy Agrarian Policy Minister Ivan Bisyuk.

Restrictions could also be imposed on transit shipments, he said.

The conditions in which Ukrainian experts are working arouse queries and doubts that their work is being done properly, especially amid reports of African swine fever infections, he said.

Cooperation between veterinary and phytosanitary experts is largely based on trust, Dankvert said. If the conditions in which the Ukrainian service is working do not improve, moreover, if its leadership is replaced, the business contacts, built over the past few years, may be affected," he said. "They were not always cloudless, but our Ukrainian colleagues were trying to work for expanding trade between our counties," he said.
It might seem like an odd reason to suddenly do this but of course the timing is perfect - especally as the anti-Russian provinces tend to be the most agricultural and farming based - as opposed to the eastern (more industrial) regions that are wealthier and more pro-Russia.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-24/russia-fires-first-retaliatory-salvo-may-limit-ukraine-food-imports

Posted by: brian | Feb 25 2014 9:05 utc | 53

Posted by: Juan Moment | Feb 25, 2014 12:47:02 AM | 33
when the going gets tough...

“They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Frenchies seek him everywhere
Is he in heaven or is he in hell?
That damned elusive Pimpernel”
― Emmuska Orczy, The Scarlet Pimpernel

Posted by: brian | Feb 25 2014 9:07 utc | 54

43) US/NATO want to integrate Ukraine via EU. EU/France/Germany do not want to integrate Ukraine (as in "open border"). They do not mind an association agreement which forces Ukraine to change and does not cost the EU but adds to European security.

This is the text.

It is like inviting McKinsey into a morbid company for restructuring. You judge yourself if and when Ukraine will be able to fulfill EU requirements.

The EU has no interest to repeat the Greek scenario with a population of close to 50 million. They have huge problems selling the EU membership to their own populations. It is very much the equivalent of selling the US population on opening the border to Mexico.

The US wants to stop, impede the Russian customs union. The EU has no such interest as it would make EU trade with Ex Soviet countries much easier not more difficult.

There is complete silence on the EU US free trade agreement that is in the works. That presumably will be very difficult to sell to European populations, too.


Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 9:55 utc | 55

European population will continue falling in the hands of extreme-right parties. What is the plan? For the BXL Eurocrats to survive as "saviours"? Help the US screw it? (while on the ground, there is no much EU except for products: we cannot get unemployment money in another country, e. g. you've worked for a year in one EU country and move to another: you should have taken the unemployment money in the country you worked for, i. e. address the job center in their own language... good luck; we cannot get health care in our own country once we have worked in another EU country unless we work again or apply for the poverty dole to prove that we are actual residents again and come to the regular meetings at the job center to show we are activally looking for a new job, etc...)

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 10:02 utc | 56

BTW, Somebody, since you read German, I have a lot of difficulty finding articles on the neo nazis process in Munich that would be in English. If you see them, could you link them here? Thanks

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 10:03 utc | 57

I guess I need an open thread...
http://news.sky.com/story/1213951/prince-charles-joins-sword-dance-in-saudi

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 10:05 utc | 58

52) Add to the text link of the association agreement - I only had a brief look. Whatever I saw reeks of complete mistrust eg. the strange emphasis on metering the gas pipelines.

Basically, what the Russians put in minus the official take by Ukraine does not seem to equal what is delivered to Europe.

It would make a lot of sense for the EU to gang up with Russia on Ukraine.

54) Mina, just google "NSU trial Munich" and take your pick. Much more interesting is "nsu enquiry berlin" that is about 1000 documents (in German).

You may also google "Edathy BKA"

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 10:25 utc | 60

Have you heard the latest stupid propaganda? The "secret documents" by Yanukovich, too stupid to even comment!

somebody

EU of course want Ukraine in the EU, that US want Ukraine in US is totally false.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 10:37 utc | 61

uh I meant that US necessarily dont want Ukraine in the EU.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 11:10 utc | 62

59) "EU of course want Ukraine in the EU"

What for? To pay?

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 11:16 utc | 63

47) okie farmer, that is true.

We all know how the US founded the VietCong and how well that turned out :-))

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 11:27 utc | 64

somebody

Power of course and to counter Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 11:32 utc | 65

58) yep, it should give pause for thought though that it is actually the Voice of Russia that is spreading it.

Kyiv activists seem to have come up with the idea not to accept anybody in parliament above a certain amount of income. I applaud that idea.

The Eurasian Customs Union as the EU is a tool of standardization and legal control. Both intend to clean up Ukraine.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 11:34 utc | 66

somebody

Another funny news is that the thugs that rule Ukraine now "ordered" Yanukovich to go the ICC. Wow these are really stupid people.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 11:48 utc | 67

61 :-))

Well. lets take Germany and France who included Poland in this.

irony>Why should they. after Napoleon and Hitler, have an interest to try that again? I mean, Russian winters have not changed that much by global warming./irony>

France had had their revolution and Germany is past fascism. All the power Germany has is economic. France is nuclear, but so is Russia. Forget about a reincarnation of Napoleon or Hitler. No one is going to attempt to rob Russian resources by military means or start colonies of settlers there.

Economies do not "counter" each other. It is not in their interest. They trade as much as they can. You can try to rob in economies by financial tricks, by fraud, pocket theft, by bribery or blackmail but that is limited as markets do regulate themselves in the end and citizens do fund police forces to feel safe. In today's globalized world with multiple complex identities and interests you can no longer rob by sectarianism or nationalism. If you try, it will be short lived.

Ukraine is no prize to fight over. Remember how that turned out in Iraq or Libya, two countries which were a prize to fight over.

Ukraine is simply a nuisance between Russia and Europe.


Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 12:20 utc | 68

b,

So I wss right partially(in col Lang's site), that Germany will be asked to pay for this, monetarily. The only country with money is Germany and it's either all in or out for this types of coups. Ukraine is not for the faint hearted; so, onward with the sudden increase in gas prices and pipeline valve problems for the approaching winter from Russia.

Germany will pay, unhappily, in monetary terms. And to rub it in, the putsch will fail, and they will blame Germany's weak willed support for 'democracy' in Ukraine.

Posted by: shanks | Feb 25 2014 12:40 utc | 69

Oh, this here is the British Foreign Minister by the way.

We are not presenting it as a strategic competition between East and West: I think that would be a mistake to do so and so our continuous contact with Russia and recognising the fact that their approach to Ukraine will always be important in its stability will be a continuing feature of our policy.

So, Russia has a veto on what is going on in Ukraine according to the EU. Get used to it.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 12:45 utc | 70

somebody

Why do you think EU and US have interests in Ukraine? For human rights? EU US are equally bad on this.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 12:46 utc | 71

Re. "Russia considering to block ukraine imports"
Just a small but important detail: It concerns agricultural produce, or in other words, it doesn't harm eastern ukraine but only the western part.

Generally, again, the question isn't whether ukraine splits. The question is only about details.

I do not see any chance that the eastern part is ready to eat the shit that is served by the brainless demonstrator puppets, the nazis, the traitors, the terrorists. All in all, seen from the ethnic russians perspective their time in ukraine never was a good one and it became only so much worse since ukraine has become a state.

Similarly, Russia is fed up and had enough from zio-western games. One should understand that the "fuck you" leaks also have a component of giving a warning message, namely "It' not just zusa and zeu who can play dirty games".

In the end the Russians can only learn one thing from the situation: zusa/iszrael and their minions, dogs and whores will not - and can not (it's not in their character to do anything decent) - just see that their time is over and go. Obviously zusa needs to be terminated the hard way.

I predict that one and the most important of the outcomes of the recent zusa dirty war - during olympic games, a time all mankind agrees to stay peaceful. But then, evidently zusa isn't part of mankind - will be Russia taking a much harder stance, basically not only being ready for war but actually looking for it.
I assume, though, that the Europeans will be lucky insofar as the big thing will probably be around North Korea or Japan. Simple thing, that's the most "comfortable" theater for Russia/China and zusa can very easily be lured in a trap there.
I might be wrong; after all in war everything is possible. Possibly Russia simply wont stop in eastern ukraine; poland has profoundly and repeatedly earned a solid beating and so do the baltic micro-territory large mouth mini states. From there on, everything would depend on the countries in zeu understanding their real power and shutting up decently ... or getting crushed. And zusa won't do much for them, if only because besides having a big mouth they are (rightfully) afraid of Russia.
I'm quite sure, however, that Russia isn't looking for that (other than some cleaning up in ukraine). Simply because zeu and its states are rather irrelevant and anyway just satellites or dogs of zusa and izrael. What needs to be done is to crush and terminate zusa once and for all and Europe isn't the right place for that.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 13:29 utc | 72

So I wss right partially(in col Lang's site), that Germany will be asked to pay for this, monetarily. The only country with money is Germany and it's either all in or out for this types of coups.

Certainly the German President has been acting all gung-ho on this subject. Making speeches at NATO conferences calling for greater German involvement in "solving conflicts" - a euphemism if ever there was one.

That's R2P it seems to me.

Unfortunately it seems that things around the Europe/Russian borders are probably going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Merkel has never shown anything other than a willingness to adopt whatever pose is required in order to climb the greasy ladder of power - so despite appearances, I don't see much daylight between Merkel and her President.

As far as I know Presidents such as the German one, don't get to run around speechifying and thereby setting Foreign Policy for their Govt, all by their lonesome.

Posted by: brb | Feb 25 2014 13:48 utc | 73

66) Cold war left over has beens lobbying in the case of the US. US foreign policy has been driven by short term business interests and lobbying for a long time to the point where no one can find any sense in it. Most people in the US don't care about foreign policy, it is a huge country by itself.
Foreign policy is left to small interest groups and elites, people begin to notice when they find there is no budget left or they get drafted.

The EU has been interested in Eastern Europe's markets and resources (and beyond up to China) for a long time. They just do not have the funds any more for long time engagement with dubious returns.
So the EU has no interest to "counter" Putin's Eurasian customs union, especially Eastern European countries but export and resource dependent Germany, too, have an interest to make the EU not mutually exclusive with the Customs Union, as Custom Union tariffs would be prohibitive for their exports.
Most EU countries are dependent on Russian gas - they have to export to pay. Much of recent conflicts have been Gazprom wars.

I suggest we rewrite history with space for all crimes, all heroism and all suffering.


Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 13:48 utc | 74

68) yep, there is a phenomenon called cant.

Ukraine, I suppose should think about the history of robber barons.

If protesters in Kyiv think they will get EU passports soon, they are cheated.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 14:04 utc | 75

somebody

The whole idea of EU is to generate a powerful emperium and this is to counter Russia not only economically as you rightly say but also and most of it - politically.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 14:06 utc | 76

70) there is another expression "political puppet" - it appears to apply equally to both Ms Merkel and her President.

The Germans certainly should at least have some sort of foreign policy that is actually beneficial to their economic and strategic, political, interests

Unfortunately what they have appears to be a foreign policy that harms themselves and their neighbours, in real economic terms.

Unfortunately what they have is political puppets doing the work of NATO.

Posted by: brb | Feb 25 2014 14:21 utc | 77

Frau Merkel only gives political cover to American policies in Europe..In fact, most European leaders serve that role. it's nothing surprising..

Posted by: Zico | Feb 25 2014 14:28 utc | 78

72) Actually they are doing quite well.

Usually the player that avoids confrontation wins.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 14:36 utc | 79

Get back to us on the numbers after Russia starts messing with Russian Gas prices and Russian Gas supply to Gas PipeLines across Ukraine, Poland and onward to Germany.

Nordstream is not completed yet.

Helping topple the Ukrainian Gov't is not "avoiding confrontation", it's provoking it.

Posted by: brb | Feb 25 2014 14:57 utc | 80

75) I agree. That is why everybody is on the phone to Russia.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 15:08 utc | 81

Mr P.,

Once again, you assume that Russia is strong, and can punish ZATO. How could that be done? What could Russia do to harm Poland?

Posted by: Ozawa | Feb 25 2014 15:20 utc | 82

somebody @ 13: Thanks for the link, absolutely relevant. There ARE real monsters in our world, and they walk upright.

Posted by: ben | Feb 25 2014 15:34 utc | 83

Russia said today they wont interfere in any way in Ukraine, too bad for the crazy EU/US/NATO that wanted just that.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 25 2014 15:38 utc | 84

79) I think Russia got what they wanted - this is DER Spiegel confessing the truth

The pair came to the conclusion well before the current crisis that Yanukovych would not be around for much longer. They began carefully looking around for alternatives. Akhmetov, for example, had always gotten along well with Tymoshenko, in contrast with Firtash, and began supporting Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who took over the leadership of her Fatherland alliance when she was incarcerated. Firtash, for his part, backed Vitali Klitschko's party UDAR.

"In reality, Firtash early on placed people in Klitschko's UDAR Party, a former head of secret service, for example," says Vadim Karasev. "The contacts were made via the head of the presidential office."

"It may sound hard to believe," Karasev says, "but Firtash was looking for an alternative for the eventuality that Tymoshenko was released and claimed the right to the presidency. It would have been advantageous were Klitschko already there, as a puppet of Firtash."

That's how Akhmetov and Firtash built up options for a possible future without Yanukovych. When the protests broke out on Independence Square in November and both oligarchs saw how obstinately Yanukovych reacted, they began to distance themselves. It was clear to both of them that if worse comes to worst, and the West imposed sanctions on Ukraine, their businesses would be the first to be affected.

Akhmetov made it known that he was in favor of negotiations between the government and the opposition. Firtash also quickly called for a peaceful resolution of the conflict, emphasizing that people on both sides of the barricades were Ukrainians.

--- and so on.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 25 2014 15:55 utc | 85

Ozawa (82)

Sorry, I don't waste my time answering obvious questions. Just some patience and you'll see the answer yourself.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 16:00 utc | 86

Super potted history.

In the last melt-down (USSR) what we saw was chaos, impoverishment (specially but not only, Russia) break up (geography), and communism discredited and wiped away (even if many of the new countries retained ‘Communists’ in the power structure, etc.) Lodging Yugoslavia (1991 > 1999 Kosovo ..) under this rubric.

At the same time, the new single hegemon, US, became weakened - the new world order was unfavorable or mismanaged.

The US invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, in old-style violent colonialist adventures, dressed up of course, and unsuccessful except for those who made money.

Then came the age of Color and other cute-word ‘revolutions’. They have a previous history, tied to the break up of the USSR (E.g. Czechoslovakia, Velvet, Yugoslavia...), to limit to recent times, they continued:

Rose in Georgia, which threw out Shevardnadze, Orange in Ukr. which threw out Yanukovitch, and then a long string that were sometimes partly successful on some issues, or not at all: Kyrgystan, Lebanon, some results, Kuwait?, Belarus (“Jeans” revolution), Moldova (“Grape”, failed utterly), Jordan, Oman, Bahrein, and more..

Twined in, the Arab Spring, Lotus and Jasmine etc, many with a-hem let’s say muscular foreign manipulation and strong-arm intervention, with threats / money matters, or outright NATO bombing, etc.

Junked: Ben Ali - Tunisia, Moubarak - Egypt, then, bis, Morsi, Khadafi - Lybia, Saleh - Yemen.

The resistors - Iran and Syria - with full blown war in Syria.

At the same time similar movements in other places have had no or only very minor impact.

W - US “Occupy”, Isr. (demos), France, Spain, and others days of rage and the like, EU. Fossil-fuel energy rich or dependent - Bahrein, Algeria, Morocco, Mali, maybe Saudi Arabia. Some of course are special cases: Iraq (occupied), Sudan (now split) then there African countries, another long story.

International Gangsterism, as it is cheaper to mobilize some activists in the ‘brand-name peaceful protest’ line than to spend billions on a ground invasion. (See the neo-cons in the US joining that trend.)

To what end?

Not nation-building or democracy, nobody believes that.

Short term gain by selected actors - multinationals, specially the GlencoreXstrata type, finance and banking, military, powerful Corps, anyone who has clout and follows influence and hopes to acquire more. It is a form of privatization through various types of domination and threat. Oil-rich countries are left alone for now (more or less) since disturbance affects the spigots (e.g. Iraq) and in any case despots who insure export (e.g. KSA) can’t be touched.


Posted by: Noirette | Feb 25 2014 16:04 utc | 87

The process of disruption or soft coups that have been taking place in every country ever since the toppling of Milosevic all the way up to the "color revolution" recipe, is pretty consistent. These cabrones are so predictable, that the "counter soft coup" anti-dote should be patented as well by now.
Peace keepers by Russia and China, to carry out there own R2p ops.
Continous outing of CIA assets and companies.
The best way to knock these parasites out is by shining the light of truth on them. Look at Snowden and Wikileaks effects.
El imperio is carrying out offensives in Ukraine and Venezuela in a big way right now, because they believed that they could win quickly in a fast food type of operation since Putin was busy putting out western inspired fires in Sochi.
The fires were irrelevant, Maduro is holding his own, and that cobarde Yanucovich was useless, therefore, no big loss with him leaving the scene. Good riddance Victor, cobarde, pendejo!

Pragma, the place where USA and it's allies needs to be weakened is in Latino America. Weaken USA in Latin America and they are done.
Make Ibero America stronger to resist and push back against USA. You will see a significant reduction in American mierda!!

The push now is to bring up trumped up charges of mass murder against Maduro in the ICC. Those of you that can understand Spanish know the full level assault underway in Venezuela.
The amount of dead is 13.
USA wants to increase the fatalities to paint Maduro as a butcher.
The Mandelazation of Leopoldo Lopez in underway, the theif and crook Lopez is being groomed as the great white hope. He is currently incarcerated and is being portrayed as a martyr and a victim.

The ambassador to Venezuela in Dominican Republic was involved in a very nasty shouting match with tv journalist, Nuria Piera.

The journalist Piera, smeared the ambassador.

Piera, the humanitarian then fired a reporter (Paloma Martinez) who took the audacity to take a picture with Venezuelan ambassador Castellar.

Later, President Correa of Ecuador, correctly denounced the reporter Piera as a tool of the powers that be.

Piera is now in the middle of media war with Correa and Maduro.

I don't have the ability to put up any links, lo siento.

However please keep yourselves abreast of the goings on of the imperial offensives in Latin America.

Venezuelan President Maduro, recently conducted the CELAC meeting, this excluded the governments of USA and Canada.

Maduro amongst other things, called for the independence of Puerto Rico.

The independent line that Maduro expouses is anathema to Washington.

The fight for liberty begins in Latino America.

No justice, no peace.

Posted by: Fernando | Feb 25 2014 16:34 utc | 88

Noirette,
The answer to your rhetorical question 'to what end?' is obvious:
to empty the pockets of the middle class by using super high taxes into useless wars and more refugees;
to pressure them into keeping quiet and accepting jobs that are being paid lower and lower while thinking "it's not that bad here; this homeless guy could be me".

i. e. the old US recipe, now made into the EU stew.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 25 2014 16:49 utc | 89

Talking about Ukraine and 'leaks' here's a few from Council on Foreign Relations, today.

Putin could move against Crimea
(according to Richard Haass, president of US spin tank, C.F.R)
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s3952318.htm

This is an interesting interview. Haass lets slip, twice, that Yankees really do believe all their horseshit about being the World's policeman and arbiter of good governance and the problems they cause. It's about 10 mins of vid and includes transcript. Haass answers questions about:
1. Ukraine - has Russia lost?
2. Is this a new era of Russian involvement in Foreign Affairs?
(Syria, Ukraine, Snowden)
3. US over-reach and interference policies?
4. Slashing US Military budget?
5. How far will Obama go in defending US Free Trade policies?
6. Was the G20 goal of extra 2% growth in global economy just hokum?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 25 2014 17:07 utc | 90

Fernando (88)

I understand your attitude perfectly well.

There are problems, however, with your approach. For one, there is no clear - and reliable - power (state) in Latin-America (and Brazil). Also, basically the whole continent is infested with zusa cia vermin or even open bases. Another issue that (although zusa thug idiots do that on a daily basis) it is usually not at all prudent to attack an enemy directly at his doorsteps.

The worlds problem is that - at least without clear and undisputable reason such as a direct attack on Russia or China - a direct attack on zusa is pretty much a non-possibility.
First such a direct attack would match the issue, which is not to destroy zusa per se (no matter how justified und wonderful that would be) but rather to deny zusa the possibility to abuse, mass murder and generally commit whatever crimes they please.
Second, a direct attack would add immensely to the danger of zusa going nuclear. While they would normally not do that, if only for the fact, that they are in a strongly disadvantagous position in a nuclear war, they might consider a "samson" approach, i.e. destroying as much as they possibly can before they perish.
To start a nuclear war themselves, on the other hand is simply unthinkable for countries like Russia or China with their very high level of civilization, culture, and human values (at least and anyway when compared to barbaric, widely criminal, primitive, uneducated, violence ridden non-societies like the united states of abomination).

They way to go is to respond to zusa agressions and to do that in a way that accelerates the zusa demise.
For a military confrontation obviously the far east is ideal. Not only are both, Russia and China, present there but at the same time this force zusa to bring in troups and supplies on the longest and slowest route (Pacific). Do not underestimate logistics! That's also a major reason why a confrontation in Latin America should be avoided. Chances are that zusa, being forced to run supplies across Pacific would bleed out financially way more through logistics than through the war itself.

Another factor to consider is that one would ideally like to have a strong zusa partner around. Because avoiding to enter the war to help that ally would demask zusa and would ruin its "protection" scheme, which again is immensely valuable in keeping the dollar as the lead currency.
At the same time a war with a zusa ally would immensely increase the pressure on zusa to enter the war, which then would allow Russia and China to bleed zusa to death.
But there is yet another factor against zusa in far east: Unlike in ukraine or near/mid east their zato allies would think twice before joining; their route would be even more complicated than for zusa and it would be similarly long an troublesome.

South-Americas role in mankinds war against the zamerican and izraeli scum and criminals is a different one and some, for instance Brazil, already are profoundly involved (BRIC). This is no unimportant side-position! BRICS already has made major progress and accounts for a very large part of world trade, such putting the zusa $ in ever more acute danger. And after all, killing the dollar is as good as (although less enjoyable than) destroying zusa militarily.


Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 25 2014 18:22 utc | 91

Fernando, nice post, but I think you overestimate US vulnerability in Latin America, with one possible exception - if US were to lose Columbia it would be close to a death blow. US's project to convert the world to fascism has been going on since the end of WWII - TPTB never get discouraged, why should they, they're winning. It's a multi-generational effort to convert the world to fascism. And yes, it's all about money, both to hoard and to buy power.

Mina, good answer for Noirette, I would add that EU has now surpassed US in the race to establish fascism. Certainly the 'model' was US, but EU has done away with democracy entirely (eat your heart out US PTB) and handed all power to a neoliberal cabal ensconced in ECB and EC. I'm praying to the Great God Pan everyday that the EZ fails, just any little country exiting could make it happen, but the fascists that control Europe right now built their prison very cleverly - pain of death for the first to exit.

Nasty situation - pretty much worldwide, I'd say.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 25 2014 18:38 utc | 92

regarding revelations concerning Ukrainian/Chechen/Wahhabi hook-up: maybe a crazy thought but

    "What if the whole point of Syria was to show the Russians what could happen in Ukraine if they push back too hard there?"

a variation on the "Nice house you got there, shame if anything were to happen to it" method of seduction so beloved of the Western Mafiosi

Posted by: brb | Feb 26 2014 11:05 utc | 93

thx for the answers there are many we will have to think and see

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 26 2014 17:21 utc | 94

Fantastic post Fernando!

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 1 2014 2:17 utc | 95

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