Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 23, 2014

Ukraine: Move To Replace The President Is Illegal

The Ukrainian opposition claims it wants to associate with the European Union because they desire the rule of law. Why do they then break the law and try to illegally remove the elected president from his office?

The parliament now says it has temporarily handed the president's powers to speaker Oleksandr Turchinov, a top ally of gas oligarch Yulia Tymoshenko. But that move certainly did not follow Article 111 (impeachment) of the Ukrainian constitution:

  • The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime.
  • The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
  • To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.
  • The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
  • For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.
  • The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.

As far as I can tell none of the highlighted points have been met. Replacing the president through a simple vote is clearly illegal. It is also breaking the agreement achieved two days ago with the pressure from three EU ministers.

Instead of leaving the place as had been agreed the fascist groups on the Maidan are growing with more radicals arriving. In the east pro Russian Ukrainians are preparing self defense groups.

By each hour the situation is getting more and more out of control. The sorcerers apprentices, though not admitting it yet, are now helpless. Who will be the first to call up Moscow and to ask Putin for help?

Posted by b on February 23, 2014 at 16:00 UTC | Permalink

Who will be the first to call up Moscow and to ask Putin for help?

Funny that you mention it. Reuters reports that Putin and Merkel spoke on the phone Sunday morning. The Russian statement is short and sweet "The latest development of the situation in Ukraine was discussed."

My view on the situation is that its fairly desperate. Obviously Yanukovich is no Assad or no Putin. A few months ago I wrote that Yanukovich needed to find his balls, obvious from him fleeing the capital, they are still missing. A President who flees from his own capital city doesn't deserve to be President.

His passive concessions to the Fascists have failed. He gave them everything they asked for and they still seized the Presidential Palace anyway. Only thing left to do now is go to Eastern Ukraine, build an Army modelled on the Syrian NDF or the Lebanese Hezbollah and take back the country from the Nazi scum.

When you look at Hezbollah its a similar social context that is needed in Ukraine. In Lebanon its the Shia South Lebanon that Hezbollah recruits from. They govern there area, defend its people, and promote there interests. East Ukraine needs a similar organisation now.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Feb 23 2014 16:28 utc | 1

Good summary !
As you explained the illegality of this action from a legal point of view, I adopted on my own website (in French, so I won't link) the moral point of view.

Obviously an illegal move in a state that desperately need solid and trusted institutions. Instead, we have some kind of political bordello with no rule at all and crooks from one side replacing those from the other. Included a political shift from Ianukovich's former supporters, whose loyalty must then be questionned.

Posted by: Rhysaa | Feb 23 2014 16:29 utc | 2

OT: Spectacular/breathtaking games Russia! Best alongside Vancouver and Calgary!

And predictably, Americans, once again, proved themselves to be the party-poopers of the world, and in this case of the games: Oh the security! Oh-oh the SKY IS FALLING! It's gonna be in the toothpaste - no in the shoes - under the bed? Oh the venues! Oh the snow! Oh the weather! Buaaaaaah, we can't win because there's too much snow; uh, too little snow? OHHHHH, and finally the ring didn't open! LOLOLOL! Endless bitchin' What an embarrassing load of American ignorance.

Amercans made idiots of themselves - what else is new?

CONGRATULATIONS RUSSIA! Truly beautiful games.

Posted by: kalithea | Feb 23 2014 16:31 utc | 3

ukraine,syria, win some lose some...irony alert: i'd love to see this sort'a thing happen in zusa,but it won't...ain't never gonna happen 'cause the MONEY ain't behind it...i remember some wag say
"ther'll never be a coup in th'USA, 'know why? no US embassy(nest of spies/agents provacateur)...shitsnacks!!

Posted by: bfrakes | Feb 23 2014 16:32 utc | 4

I feel sorry for Russia but this is the reality now and they cannot change it.
Anyway this shows how corrupt EU and US are a global resistance must be started against this madness.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 16:32 utc | 5

Colm o Toole

So you mean they should have stayed and probably murdered by the fascists?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 16:33 utc | 6

Bear with me once more: SHAME on every government that didn't send their leader to the games because they heeded ignorant American fear-mongering and endless bullshet lies. Egg on your face!

Posted by: kalithea | Feb 23 2014 16:46 utc | 7


And shame on west for waging a war during the games against Russia/Ukraine. These are sick people!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 16:55 utc | 8

1) You are definitively into civil war. The Russians to their credit aren't.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 16:59 utc | 9

@1 What was ridiculous was to see the PArty of Regions MPs leave parliament and be set upon by the "protestors".

This President couldn't even protect his own allies form being beaten in the street - is there any wonder that so many decided to bolt his party? Because between the future of one's country and the future of one's skin - the choice is easy.

Really pathetic display.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 17:17 utc | 10

@ Posted by: Rhysaa | Feb 23, 2014 11:29:07 AM | 2

I adopted on my own website (in French, so I won't link)

Amazingly enough there are plenty of people who frequent this site who are entirely capable of reading and indeed writing in more than one language. Our host for example is German but writes in English. I'm pretty certain that I am not the only denizen of this site who is capable of reading your doubtless deathless prose without having to resort to babelfish or similar.


Posted by: Dubhaltach | Feb 23 2014 18:05 utc | 11

@ Anon

So you mean they should have stayed and probably murdered by the fascists?

He shouldn't have made the concessions in the first place. Handing over power of the police, changing the constitution, all for these fascists who never won any election. He was showing his weakness well before he fled the capital.

@ somebody

You are definitively into civil war. The Russians to their credit aren't.

I think another civil war, this time in Ukraine would be devastating. But did you see the photographs of the rioters. The civil war has already started. Its not a choice of civil war or not. It's a choice between counter attacking or just sitting around and offering concessions in the middle of a regime change operation.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Feb 23 2014 18:10 utc | 12

Some material on Tymoshenko:

Posted by: g_h | Feb 23 2014 18:14 utc | 13

@12 But did you see the photographs of the rioters. The civil war has already started.

I'm afraid that's true.

Posted by: b | Feb 23 2014 18:45 utc | 14

14) Russia/oligarchs seem to have told "their" people that they would get no support opposing the government that is put in place. They act accordingly and won't start anything.

I doubt the Fascists will walk into regions where they are not welcome. And where defense groups were set up.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 19:00 utc | 15

@15 Perhaps, but I doubt they would be willing to split the country.

One has to wonder where the military is in all of this. Surely they will be the final arbiter of the future of the country.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 19:13 utc | 16

The illegality follows the very same script as the 1940 events that Wikipedia now describes as the "Soviet occupation of the Baltic states."
(Do not read the article, it is all wikipropaganda. It puts far too much emphasis on unrelated troop movements. In reality it was all #joy and #peoplepower and #revolution and #celebration and #democracy!)

One must give Yanukovych credit for at least calling out the illegality of the putsch, something that Estonian President Päts never did. In fact, in Estonia no one raised a finger to voice his protest at the events. I do not think there is a single contemporary written source from Estonia from 1940 (at least one that would have survived to the present day) that criticizes the illegality of the revolutionary events.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 23 2014 19:44 utc | 17

16) They seem to have a conscript police force - which explains a lot -

Internal Troops of Ukraine

The army are bound to be conscripts, too, you can forget about them in civil conflict.

Authority on security seems to be regionalized.

I don't think the Fascists have the military power to prevent secession. Secession would not happen anyway without Russian agreement and protection.

Actually I would suspect Fascists would be in favor of secession - better to rule in Lviv than be a minority party in all of Ukraine.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 19:45 utc | 18

I posted previous about the Ukr. Constitution and its idealistic weirdness.

Not that the sentiments, expressed in weak or strong statements are in any way detrimental to the ppl of Ukr. or to be dissed.

But a Constitution needs to be applicable, realistic.

Most are so only in times of ease, satisfaction, economic stability, solid Gvmt. If then. That applies to all Constitutions.

When trouble hits, the Constitution is ignored, forgotten. Most actors don’t know about it or don’t care and can’t refer to it anyway, in the sense of successfully arguing for enforcing its articles. It becomes irrelevant.

Syria (Bashar) wrote a new Constitution in 2012, voted in by referendum.

It knocked away the previous ‘Baath party organises Syria’ article (= single pol party), while stipulating that any new pol. party could NOT be organized along ethnic, tribal, religious, regional, professional status or occupation, social class, race, origin, gender etc. lines, and would need Gvmt. approval to be accepted officially. > Article 8 alinea 4.

Article 150, 4 stipulates that Constitutional Change can be voted in by the People’s Assembly with a 3/4 majority.

The Constitution has 157 articles, most with many sub-points. (Still applicable today in law..)

The key points, outlined above, generally escaped notice except of course inside Syria by those who were paying attention.

Much good did this Constitution do for Bashar - except to look like a reformer abroad on his claims (who read it? huh?) - and it certainly did not help the Syrian ppl. Or do them any harm.

one version 2012, English)

Previous constitution (from yale), English

Apologies, I went off to Syria, but, Constitutions, hmmm.

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 23 2014 19:52 utc | 19

Start lubing up Ukraine, here comes your EU/IMF loan package!

The EU's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, said earlier this month that the EU was exploring with the U.S. and international institutions the possibility of providing an aid package to help Ukraine meet its short-term needs. But officials in Brussels have stressed that any aid is conditional on a new government moving quickly in pushing through urgent economic reforms to be determined with the International Monetary Fund.

"We are ready to give everything we can, from loans to budgetary support and macro-financial assistance. We can also provide technical expertise. But of course we'd need the conditionality of an IMF deal," the official explained.

If Kiev advances on its talks with the IMF, the EU has pledged to deploy a wide range of financial assistance tools. These would include bridging loans and credit lines from the EIB and EBRD, as well as funds from the EU budget and currency support measures. The EU has already earmarked EUR610 million in funds for Kiev if Ukraine signs a new IMF agreement.

The IMF has insisted that any aid would come with strings attached, including a gradual reduction of energy subsidies and a devaluation of the Ukrainian currency.

How many effing times are the people of this planet going to allow this exact same scenario to play itself again and again and again?

Holy f*ck.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 23 2014 20:50 utc | 20

Someone seems to be forgetting that the fascists in the streets are quite anti-EU. In fact quite more anti-EU that Yanukovich and his party (who just wanted to bargain a better deal between the EU and Russia). Let see how so much boot-licking from their 'chosen' representatives in the Parliament to their IMF/EU masters pleases their tastes.

It would be 'interesting' to see a replay of Egypt counter-revolutionary re-coup with the now compliant police and army killing even more 'protesters' and the US/EU remain silent because this time is their government doing.

Posted by: ThePaper | Feb 23 2014 20:57 utc | 21

This is the new preisdent of ukraine, what a thug!

And he have already made speeches against Russia and pro-EU.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 21:14 utc | 22

21) It will go downwards from here

18:46 GMT: The Ukrainian port city of Sevastopol has voted to stop paying taxes to Kiev, as it is seeking independence.

The Fascists have some stupid fantasy of "Ethnic Ukraine". What that translates into on a map you presumably have to be either a specialised historian or an Ukrainian fascist to be sure of. In all probability however this map causes problems with EU Poles, EU Hungarians and EU Rumanians. Not to mention Jewish Ukrainians. Never mind EU values. Or Russians.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 21:15 utc | 23

“#Russia militias in #Crimea, a man demonstrates to new recruits how to use a kalashnikov”

“many pro-#Russia protesters even form local militias that will fight for self rule of #Crimea”

“Meanwhile in Ukrainian city of Kerch (Crimea) the protesters put #Russian flag on the roof of City Administration”

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 23 2014 21:16 utc | 24

"Someone seems to be forgetting that the fascists in the streets are quite anti-EU."


Um, let's see...Ukraine is broke and they're not going to get any Russian money so unless they have a unicorn that shits gold they are going to bend over and feel the ramrod of IMF austerity up their backsides like good little boys and girls.

Ooooh, I'm sure the American/EU bankers are really scared of a bunch of anti-EU hoodlums. Maybe they should have thought about what eventually happened to the Golden Dawn and other overtly fascist scum in Greece and other countries lip-locked to the EU/IMF teat.

That's right, once the word came from Brussels they were outlawed and replaced with good little technocrats.

Anti-EU fascists, please.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 23 2014 21:22 utc | 25

Situation has reached boiling point. While it is bit difficult to me to comprehend differences between people with same religion and race and what not, obviously a history playing its role.

has differences reached point of no return? Situation in Ukraine and Crimea can be seen very, very graphically from this video:

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 23 2014 21:26 utc | 26

Let East go to Russia and let the west deal with the retarded and bankrupt west!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 21:40 utc | 27

And that, neretva and others,

is just the beginning.

Those people won't be stopped by some smart politicians talking sweet.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 21:41 utc | 28

Crimea will be breaking away...Sevastopol has sacked its Kiev appointed mayor and appointed a local favorite

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 21:52 utc | 29

This geopolitical Eurasia map from 2009 based on gas is fun.

Ukraine is already divided there.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 21:56 utc | 30

Here's a statement made by the new "leader" from 2009:

Why, far from being anti-EU it looks like they're old golfing buddies!

The Mission of the International Monetary Fund is arriving in Ukraine on Wednesday. The Vice Premier Olexander Turchinov said this opening the government meeting, “Ukrainski Novyny” agency reports.

“I want to begin with the pleasant news: today in the afternoon the Mission of the International Monetary Funds is arriving in Ukraine, and we resume active and, I hope, effective cooperation”, - Turchinov said.

At that time, he noted that the international financial organizations marked the anti-crisis measures taken by Ukraine.

Turchinov underlined that the return of the IMF mission is a positive signal for Ukraine.

According to the statement of the Media Relations Department of the Cabinet of Ministers Secretariat, in frames of a visit the IMF representatives are going to hold a meeting with the participation of Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

As it was earlier reported, the IMF mission intends to discuss obtainment of the second loan tranche by Ukraine.

Tymoshenko considers that the decision of IMF to send mission in Ukraine for discussing obtainment of the second loan tranche of stand-by credit confirms the property of economic actions, which the Cabinet of Ministers takes.


Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 23 2014 21:59 utc | 31

Masses are showing, again, its stupidity.

Both sides instead, united as a one, to attack and wipe out the oligarchy and the ruling system they fight each other. As if they (commoners) have anything to do with establishment in Moscow and Kiev and neither of them will solve their everyday problems. Not only that their problems will gradually worsen, it will increase exponentially since "Moscow agree with the IMF". Epic manipulation is coming from Moscow, Brussels and DC.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 23 2014 22:03 utc | 32

in a repeat of the muslims ugred to go no jihad to syria:

Doctor FrankenTan ‏@FrankenTan ·2 hrs
I think I tweeted it but swedish nazis are being encouraged\encouraging members to go to ukraine to 'help the revolution'. :|

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 22:35 utc | 33

The tax revolt has all the properties of the French Revolution after the storming of the Bastille. If big swatches of the Eastern and Southern provinces simply withold taxes it is game over for Kiev unless they invite in NATO to do the collecting for them. The question now is whether the breakaway provinces have enough cohesion to survive as political entities.

Posted by: Knut | Feb 23 2014 22:50 utc | 34

34) I don't think they will break away, that would start all kinds of recognition, sanction and visa/passport issues. They will use the tax to get politically what they want from Kiev, I don't think Kiev got the message yet though, their immediate problem are the campers in front of parliament.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 23:22 utc | 35

Populism in its worst. This pretty sizable gathering was followed by famous and iconic song from WWII, The Sacred War it is enough to read lyrics to realize that some form of the mobilization of ethnic Russians is well underway. Russian's brinkmanship or not, it is very threating. At the end Russian of video an extremists burned Ukrainian flag. As the 40% of Crimean population are Tatars with ever fresh memories of its own recent past overall picture becomes very grim.

“SOS! In Sevastopol burned Ukraine Flag and began to create separatist Russian armed groups”

I guess a homogenization of "god chosen" people is everywhere same. Thus, I saw this by when Milosevic henchmen's paraded in the eve of war(s) in Yugoslavia.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 23 2014 23:25 utc | 36

Destroying history and heroism.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 24 2014 0:11 utc | 37

36) Yep, but those "Euromaidan" orange revolution fools started the Stepan Bandera reliving and rewriting of history.

This here is a report from Donezk. Fascists better not go there.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 0:26 utc | 38


Well...yes, there are a fascists. But, I would say there are no different from Tea Party movement which unofficially is part of Republican party in US, whose characteristics is political extremism internally and externally. Ukraine fascists are member of the Alliance of European National Movements whose members are ruling Jobik party of Hungary, British BNP. And there is just few minutes separation from other European mainstream parties who are xenophobic, predatory, imperialistic and cloaked with various meaningless slogans.
All in all, it is pure chauvinism and extreme nationalism which they copied from its big neighbor as well as from the west.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 24 2014 1:14 utc | 39

This is, in some sense, Munich (or the aftermath) in reverse. After promising "peace in our time" and territorial integrity of Czechoslovakia/Ukraine, the "Great Leader" and his minions have marched triumphantly into Prague/Kiev, welcomed by throngs of Sudentenlanders/Western Ukrainians basking in the triumph of "justice" for these people. In some sense, Putin's choice is not dramatically better than Chamberlain's: although Ukraine is much closer to Russia than Czechoslovakia was to Britain, the balance of power is far less favorable to Russia than it was to Britain in the spring of 1939. Still, a very dangerous development...

Posted by: a different anon | Feb 24 2014 1:32 utc | 40

a couple of links that some here might enjoy reading..

Posted by: james | Feb 24 2014 2:15 utc | 41

@37 That is a disgusting and biased report. Why bother posting it?

Are we to be shocked that some people in Donetsk have baseball bats and have bad things to say about the EU after all that has occurred?

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 24 2014 2:40 utc | 42

Here are who the fascist fucks in Ukraine are shitting on the memory of:

Bernard Storch: holocaust survivor, soldier, and liberator

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 24 2014 3:53 utc | 43

This whole thing now smells like an overthrow of one group of oligarchs by another. The Tymoshenko camp is victorious. Next:

send the Rusyns back into their deep forests in the West
calm down the Russians in the East
ensure that the "right" person becomes the president

re-establish control over the economy, reward the supporters in Germany and elsewhere.

The Rusyns knew or suspect what their role was. There is a video. Tymoshenko and her boy Yatsenyuk are driven in black luxury vehicles. A group of Rusyns stops them and tells them not to forget who did the "revolution". He is clearly annoyed and irritated, she is more skillful. She blurts something, followed by "Slava Ukraine". The Rusyns pick up the chant "Slava Ukraine" and she takes off...

They tricked me for a minute here, seemed like this Stalin created country would be no more...

Posted by: CC | Feb 24 2014 5:26 utc | 44

41) I am pretty sure it is true. There are rednecks on all sides.

38) They reinforce each other. That Stepan Bandera thing was there but it was consciously reinforced. No doubt on some US or German think tank advice to create an "Ukrainian identity" to poke the bear in the nose.

43) yep there is a Mafia story behind all that, however it is doubtful if they can put the genie back into the bottle.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 6:04 utc | 45

on topic - removing the president is illegal

State Duma International Affairs Committee Chairman Alexei Pushkov suspects that Western partners of Viktor Yanukovych will call off their guarantees.

"Yanukovych will tell the court, which will be trying him, about "the security guarantees" he received from his Western partners. And they will refute that with a smile," Pushkov wrote on Twitter early on Monday morning.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 7:33 utc | 46

@44 I doubt that this whole thing was an American "revolution". That "F*** EU" conversation revealed that the Americans, at least the two that were talking, were less than aware of what was going on. They discussed Klitchko and Yatsenyuk as actual leaders, not realizing that both were for the most part fronts. Now, Yatsenyuk assumed his role as a personal secretary to Tymoshenko and Klitchko has been inactive. If the Americans had anyone, their boy was Yanukovich. And the Americans would've used the students, not an equivalent of hillbillies. The Germans probably gave a blessing and were asked for support. There is a picture on Wiki of Tymoshenko's daughter allegedly speaking at a gathering of the CSU party in Bavaria. I would've loved to hear more about that. Overall, this seems to be a home-grown "revolution"...

What they are trying to do with the Rusyns: a) integrate them into the regular militia by at first conducting joint patrols with the regular forces b) a billionaire promised a ton of money to the families of victims c) there was some chit chat about privileges for the families of those who participated in the uprising, such as free higher education for the children. If the Rusyn leader has enough balls, here's his chance to grad the power. But I doubt that he will do it. The talk is about "monitoring" the new power, as if the Rusyns have some right or resources to do so.

Finally, a Russian billionaire said that if Ukraine captures assets of the Yanukovich clique, and he lists about half a dozen names, there should be enough to retire a third of the country's debt. Maybe me think, maybe Russia was on it as well...

Posted by: CC | Feb 24 2014 8:11 utc | 47

This here is Heinrich Böll Stiftung marketing the Ukrainian uprising to Germany's liberal progressives - the Greens have an abysmal record in this since the ex-Yougoslav wars

Short translation

There are some right and left wing radicals among Maidan protesters, however, the movement reflects/represents the whole of the Ukrainian population

From this construct they assume the legality of the putsch. Further down they tell people that they are tbe specialists and anybody not knowing Ukraine should keep out of the discussion, which is a very democratic attitude indeed.

Timothy Snyder who has been rewriting his own history in the New York Review of Books is among the signatories.

They explicitely mention the danger of "working for Putin" if people should dare to mention the obvious racist and antisemitic subtext of Maidan.

This agreement on the language that can be used on the Ukraine conflict led to Der Spiegel (and Haaretz in a correction) to denounce the Chabad Rabbi who warned of attacks on Jewish Ukrainians as "Kremlin led".

It is the Ukrainian mafia fighting it out all right, but it is also geopolicy and "Kulturkampf" and the use of red neck fascism. If a few stupid red necks, a few policemen and a few stupid intellectuals standing in the way die, these people do not care.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 9:36 utc | 48

This here is Heinrich Böll Stiftung marketing the Ukrainian uprising to Germany's liberal progressives - the Greens have an abysmal record in this since the ex-Yougoslav wars

Short translation

There are some right and left wing radicals among Maidan protesters, however, the movement reflects/represents the whole of the Ukrainian population

From this construct they assume the legality of the putsch. Further down they tell people that they are tbe specialists and anybody not knowing Ukraine should keep out of the discussion, which is a very democratic attitude indeed.

Timothy Snyder who has been rewriting his own history in the New York Review of Books is among the signatories.

They explicitely mention the danger of "working for Putin" if people should dare to mention the obvious racist and antisemitic subtext of Maidan.

This agreement on the language that can be used on the Ukraine conflict led to Der Spiegel (and Haaretz in a correction) to denounce the Chabad Rabbi who warned of attacks on Jewish Ukrainians as "Kremlin led".

It is the Ukrainian mafia fighting it out all right, but it is also geopolicy and "Kulturkampf" and the use of red neck fascism. If a few stupid red necks, a few policemen and a few stupid intellectuals standing in the way die, these people do not care.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 9:36 utc | 49

perception management on euromaiden Ukraine

Posted by: brian | Feb 24 2014 9:36 utc | 50

a decent analysis of the euromaiden:

'There have been dozens of comments, and I’ve accepted all of those with the exception of some simply too extreme, or specific even.

To reply to some of the points raised -

- I don’t consider all the Euromaidan protesters terrorists, but, a proportion of them are. Svoboda are orchestrating the whole operation, and Svoboda is a fascist party.'

Posted by: brian | Feb 24 2014 9:43 utc | 51

'Why are you almost never reading the truth about Euromaidan?

It’s quite simple, because much of the media chose the sides of the protesters early on, and now, they would simply lose too much face to admit that even ‘if’ Euromaidan was once an idealistic struggle for a better Ukraine, it’s long been an extreme far-right attempt to overthrow Ukraine '
good blog

Posted by: brian | Feb 24 2014 9:50 utc | 52

56) Of course the US worked for the coup.

There is this

International Business Conference, sponsored by Chevron. Ukraine-in-Washington lobby group

National Press Club - December 13, 2013

Speech by Victoria Nuland - Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasian Affairs

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 9:51 utc | 53

The End of Ukraine

Anyway, in the interview, which when it’s up on YouTube I’ll post up, I stated that Ukraine, as we know it, is over. And that’s true. Ukraine can never return to as it was. Less than 2 years after the young country pulled off a pretty triumphant Euro 2012, it’s over for Europe’s 2nd largest nation. Kiev will be brought into control in time, the reparation operation will take months, perhaps years, but Kiev will be back, the capital could even be so under Yanukovych.

However Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil, historically 3 of the main cities in former region of Galicia, these days the seats of ultra-nationalist Svoboda’s vote – they are never coming back

Posted by: brian | Feb 24 2014 10:02 utc | 54

There will be war...

Posted by: Zico | Feb 24 2014 11:34 utc | 55

I am still optimistic. There is this federal idea on the table.

Ukrainians would be stupid to fight it out. There is no real EU offer on the table. Timoschenko tried to lie about it much to Merkel's chagrin. The association agreement is nothing.

And most of all. "The West" is now forced to save Ukraine's state from default. For the banks to write that money out of their books because of civil war would be fatal.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 12:07 utc | 56

Spengler (who I disagree with on lots of things) over at Asia Times, seems to have nailed it:

The fall of Yanukovich is an embarrassment to Russia, and a well-deserved one, but that does not leave Russia entirely without options. Russia most likely will adopt the same stance towards pro-European Union politicians that the Egyptian military and its Saudi backers took toward Egypt's the Muslim Brotherhood: let the opposition take the blame for economic and social chaos, and then move in when the country is on its knees. The Brotherhood ruled Egypt for a year, and then the food and fuel ran out, 30 million Egyptians, more than half the country's adult population, demonstrated to oust it. The military obliged in August 2013 and immediately obtained emergency loans from the Saudis."

Posted by: Irshad | Feb 24 2014 12:25 utc | 57

Side note: Yanukovich signed a $3b deal with China, for the Chinese to build a new port in Crimea, when he was in China in in December 2013.

Posted by: Irshad | Feb 24 2014 12:28 utc | 58

Acting President/Speaker of the Legislature tells the Rusyns to go home: (translate)

Mentioned there is the Acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is from Kharkov and apparently still has connections there and loyalty. He is a Tymoshenko person like the acting president. There are news that a number of deputies of Rada are for sale, having lost their former backers. Big time oligarchs could not accept Yanukovich's "family" style of running the country, plus Yanukovich went too far extorting money from businesses.

The news is also that there is a search for someone who would take the blame for the worsening economic conditions in the short term, someone from within the Tymoshenko camp, before she will assume the presidency and they restore the presidential constitution.

Go home people, the revolution is over ... haha....

Posted by: CC | Feb 24 2014 13:47 utc | 59
Anyone who believes Washington is deeply enamored of `democracy' in Ukraine must hit eBay, where Saddam Hussein's WMDs have been found, and are on sale to the highest bidder.

Or pay attention to the non-denial denials of the Obama administration, which swears on a daily basis there's no `proxy war' or Cold War redux in Ukraine.

In a nutshell; Washington's bipartisan Ukraine policy has always been anti-Moscow. That implies regime change whenever necessary. As the European Union (EU), geopolitically, is nothing but an annex to NATO, what matters is NATO extending its borders to the Ukraine. Or at least Western Ukraine - which would be a valuable consolation prize.

This is a purely military-centric game - the logic of the whole mechanism ultimately decided in Washington, not in Brussels. It's about NATO expansion, not `democracy'. When neo-con State Department functionary Victoria Nuland had her 15 seconds of fame recently, what she actually meant was "We're NATO, F**k the EU." No wonder there will be an urgent NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels on Wednesday, centered on Ukraine.
...Every informed analyst knows the mastermind of this `policy', since the 1970s, is Zbigniew `The Grand Chessboard' Brzezinski. Dr. Zbig was US President Barack Obama's mentor at Columbia and is the Talleyrand of the Obama administration's foreign policy machine.
...As we're now on the road (again) of regime change in Ukraine, that seems not such a lousy deal for only $5 billion - the amount volunteered by neo-con Nuland herself. Compare it to other lavish Bush-Obama continuum foreign adventures, from Afghanistan and Iraq to Syria. Yet expect major bumps ahead.
... Most arguably progressive, as well as some rabidly right wing, Google generation denizens in Western Ukraine and in Kiev seem to entertain the notion that the country, under regime change, will be accepted as an EU member, they will get an EU passport, and will find a good job in Europe, just as Polish plumbers and Romanian restaurant managers did.

Well, not really. If only they could board an EasyJet and see with their own eyes what's going on, job market-wise, in southern Europe or in London for that matter, now terrified of a horde of Eastern Europeans seizing English jobs.

As for the ultra-nationalists and frankly neo-fascists - totally anti-EU - the only thing they care about is to get rid of the Russian Bear's embrace. And then what?
...The country's GDP is roughly $157 billion. That's one fifth of Turkey (which may become the new Pakistan). As it is, Ukraine holds no economic value whatsoever to the West (even less if it becomes the new Syria). The only `positive' would be NATO's warped strategic advance.
...Back to hard facts: Ukraine cannot survive without Russian gas, and the Ukrainian industry cannot survive without the Russian market. One can mix all shades of Orange, Tangerine, Campari or Tequila Sunrise revolution, and throw in the requisite IMF `structural adjustment' correction - these facts are not going to change. And forget about the EU `buying Ukrainian'.
...Here's a very possible scenario. Eastern and southern Ukraine become part of Russia again; Moscow would arguably accept it. Western Ukraine is plundered, disaster capitalism-style, by the Western corporate-financial mafia - while nobody gets a single EU passport. As for NATO, they get their bases, `annexing' Ukraine, but also get myriads of hyper-accurate Russian Iskander missiles locked in their new abode. So much for Washington's `strategic advance'.

Posted by: vbo | Feb 24 2014 14:16 utc | 60

58) :-))

Do you think that Russia and the EU could cooperate to get rid of the kleptocracy? I mean under cold war conditions they will get a better and better deal but not when both decide enough is enough and start to cooperate?

This here is the Polish Foreign Minister:

“The new Ukrainian government needs to be in touch, needs to have a conversation with Russia, which is an important neighbour, just like Poland,” Sikorski said in an interview with CNN.

“Because, apart from anything else, Ukraine needs the lower gas price and doesn't want Russia to play the separatist card,” he added.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 14:21 utc | 61
Good advice, wrong address: Russia responds to Susan Rice ‘no tanks to Ukraine’ warning

Russia sees merit in the advice against use of force in Ukraine which US National Security Adviser Susan Rice voiced, but believes it was wrongly directed towards Moscow. Washington would be a more appropriate recipient of the piece of wisdom.

“We have noted the expert assessment of Susan Rice based on multiple cases when American troops were sent to various places of the word, especially those where the US administration believed the norms of Western democracy were in danger, or where the local regimes were getting out of hand,” a Russian Foreign Ministry source told news agencies on Monday.

The source added that, “We expect that national security adviser would be giving to the US leadership the same advice on the mistaken path of the use of force if it decides to conduct a new intervention.”

Posted by: vbo | Feb 24 2014 14:32 utc | 62


Why? Kleptocracy is probably the most prevalent form of government right now. Representative democracy = representative aristocracy. I can't speak for all of Europe. I can speak for the US. The Ukrainian form of governance is no different than what it is in the US. All they (Ukraine) need to do is to pass a law to legalize it as lobbying and start doing it openly. As you may know in the US if you do it opening, you do it legally. Being a president in the US makes you a very rich person. By some reports, Clinton has made a cool 100 mil since he left the office. Obama will make the same or more. What is that?

If I were Poland, I would be worried over the emerging axis between Germany and Ukraine. The latter two are natural allies: no border disputes, industrially and agriculturally minded nations, both make good solders (the East Ukraine at least), great respect in the East for the German organization. The Polish got it all wrong. It is the Cossacks who dug the grave of Poland and then invited the Russians to push them over.

Berlin to Warsaw -- one tank of gas...

Posted by: CC | Feb 24 2014 14:50 utc | 63

The Russians say it was "armed mutiny"

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia questioned the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian authorities on Monday, with its prime minister saying it sees the turmoil in Ukraine as a threat to both Russian citizens and Russian interests in Ukraine.

The statement by Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev was the strongest criticism yet from Russia, which had backed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who fled the capital of Kiev after striking a deal with the opposition. The Ukrainian parliament on Saturday quickly ousted him and set new elections for May, and its new speaker has been named Ukraine's caretaker president.

Russian news agencies quoted Medvedev as saying the new authorities in Ukraine have come to power as a result of "armed mutiny." He lashed out at what he called the EU's recognition of the new authorities as an "aberration of consciousness."

While the WSWS takes the view that it was more of a "fascist-led putsch"

The intervention of the United States, Germany, France and other European powers in Ukraine led to a putsch by far-right forces on Saturday. The negotiated settlement that Foreign Ministers Frank-Walter Steinmeier of Germany, Laurent Fabius of France, and Radoslaw Sikorski of Poland imposed in Kiev, aiming to provide a semi-legal façade for the opposition’s power grab, did not survive for a single day.

On Friday, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych agreed to form a national unity government within ten days that included opposition representatives and to reinstate the 2004 constitution passed after the US-backed Orange Revolution, depriving him of control over the heads of the security services. Presidential and parliamentary elections were to be held by December, during which time Yanukovych was to remain president, though only as a powerless figurehead.

The agreement signed was worthless.

France, Germany and Poland, with the United States operating in the background, had worked hand-in-glove with opposition leaders Vitali Klitschko of the Udar party, Arseniy Yatsenyuk of oligarch Yulia Tymoshenko’s Fatherland Party, and Oleh Tyahnybok of the fascistic Svoboda. As the opposition had relied on fascist thugs to provide the muscle for its street protests, a negotiated settlement with them was impossible.

After signing the deal Friday night, Yanukovych fled the capital Kiev, clearly fearing that if he stayed he would meet the same fate as Muammar Gaddafi, who was murdered at the end of the NATO war in Libya.

Why can't they see that this is democracy in action?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24 2014 15:01 utc | 64

62) But, sure, we do not wish to relive any of this?

I don't know about the US, but in this country, Germany, the kleptocracy is kind of regulated. Regulated in a way, that it is very hard to become newly rich. It is especially difficult to get rich on government money.

I hear, cheap gas paid for by public funds meant for private households in Ukraine is bought and sold at high price?

I don't think the US tea party would let this happen. German taxpayers neither.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 15:17 utc | 65


Well, maybe it's because the old money wish to knock the ladder from underneath the feet of ambitious wanna-be rich.

And yeah, the German model is not suitable for the American kleptocrats who want to run their country like a plantation. Watch VW will be kicked out of the US for seeing a human being in the worker. I don't know what gas deal you mention, but there are a million ways to profit from the government: from direct no-bid contracts to your friends to setting down competition rules to favor some over others, etc, etc, etc... I have a theory as to why no one went to jail in the US for the financial shenanigans. That's because the sons and daughters of the congress folks all work in the financial sector. Whose daddy would be heartless enough to put a company out of business so that his children would be unemployed. Plus, of course these "businesses" provide a nice living. In the US, this state of affairs arose "naturally". In China, the US financials had to hire prince-lings consciously.

And the US Tea party is a shell, what is described by a nice German word Lumpenproletarier. The kleptocrats rely on the Lumpenproletarier to thwart any legitimate efforts to mitigate their harsh rule.

Posted by: CC | Feb 24 2014 15:42 utc | 66

A story in the NYT today explicitly documents the putsch:

But Andrei Levus, deputy head of the Maidan “self-defense” forces, the umbrella organization of militant activists fighting the government, knew he had reinforcements on the way. Protesters in Lviv had overrun an Interior Ministry garrison and were en route to Kiev with the captured military weapons.

“I’m reluctant to talk about this because we are protesters and not illegal armed groups,” Mr. Levus said. “But the square was about to look different. There would be more people, and they would not have had empty hands.”

Despite the dwindling of the protective fires, the protesters decided to hold on to the square long enough for both sides to consider the significance of the arrival of the weapons in the capital.

Using a member of Parliament as an intermediary, Mr. Levus opened a line of communication with a deputy interior minister, whom he declined to name. It appeared that Mr. Yanukovych, perhaps sensing that his security forces were reluctant to press the crackdown, was inclined to turn to the army for help. He had fired the armed forces chief of staff, Col. Gen. Volodymyr Zamana, on Monday.

“We understood they had a few hundred fanatical riot police, but the rest of the police would not fight,” Mr. Levus said.
Several street fighters who were on the barricades early Thursday morning said that they saw police officers walking away from their positions, and that this emboldened them. Some protesters fired hunting rifles and shotguns. Police lines crumpled.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 24 2014 16:56 utc | 67

Now the fascists have apparently attacked 2 jews. This is what EU/US wanted?!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 24 2014 17:18 utc | 68

And the subjugation by the US/EU/IMF continues on schedule!

Treasury Secretary Jacob J. Lew told Ukrainian leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk that Ukraine has support for an international aid package centered on the International Monetary Fund and urged him to seek assistance, a Treasury official said.

Lew and IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde agreed that the fund would be the best foundation for advice and financing if sought by a fully established Ukrainian government, the official said in an e-mailed statement.

Lew and Lagarde spoke on the way back to Washington from a meeeting of the Group of 20 nations in Sydney.

and to apply a little more pressure:


But it seems we have an answer... (from the newly-installed Ukraine central bank chief)


Fuck, those freedom-loving Ukrainians are sure dropping trou pretty fast, huh?

Which Ukrainian whore will be the belle of the ball?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24 2014 17:29 utc | 69

More on the whoring out of Ukraine to the neoliberal West:

Ukraine's Finance Ministry and National Bank, along with parliamentary speaker Oleksandr Turchynov, have suggested to the country's international partners - particularly Poland and the United States - that a financial assistance credit of around $35 billion be extended in the next week or two.

"During the last two days we have had consultations and meetings with ambassadors from the EU, USA, other countries, and financial organization over Ukraine getting urgent macro-financial aid," acting Finance Minister Yuriy Kolobov said in a statement issued on Monday, Feb.24.

Kyiv is also proposing that there be a large international donors conference involving the European Union, the United States, Poland, the IMF, other countries, and international financial organizations on the extension of aid for modernization and reforms in Ukraine, as well as achieving an association agreement between the country and the EU.

Modernization and reforms, eh? Gee, where have I heard that before?

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 24 2014 17:35 utc | 70

I think that Putin will first and foremost rely on a well proven strategy, truth.

I strongly assume that FSB and others are working hard to analyse and compile all dirt (read: proof of highly criminal involvement and actions) they've gathered in order to better understand the dirty details, players and interactions. But, of course, also to leak or publish some of it - which might quite dramatically change the situation on the ground.

Unlike the "expert" of (the zamerican) associated press quoted above I do not think that Putin is basically afraid and in a dilemma, trying everything to not lose too much. (Actually I think that's bullshit)

Putins interests are simple. He doesn't want ukraine to be turned against Russia, he doesn't want the eastern part of ukraine to suffer or to get into a harmful situation and he wants to weaken - and in the long run to destroy - zato.

Afraid or seriously worried he is certainly not. After all, the mere fact that the zusa/zeu cowards timed their dirty attack to coincide with Sochi shows clearly how weak they are.
As for the Putin and timochenko get along well line, I don't fall for it.

In the end, I think, it will come down to some few critical factors:
- Will the well being and the not-zatoization of the russian speaking eastern part of ukraine be guaranteed or not (with whatever government ukraine will have)?
- Will the "russian" part of Ukraine accept any new government and constitution or will they demand to separate and/or join Russia?
- Will any new government be or not be evidently and unilaterally pro-zeu/zato?

As for the "russian" part, things probably will turn out difficult. The people there have suffered a lot, are not any more in the mood for experiments and, most importantly, have already entered into what I perceive a highly autodynamic and increasingly weaponized anti-ukraine vortex.

The central (and pro western) kiev government, who and whatever that will turn out to be, will *have* to make major concessions to the eastern part; after all it's the eastern part that earns almost all the money. On the other hand, Crimea, for instance, already is highly autonomous. Any further concessions would basically create a situation that's unacceptable for the western part. Because one major desire desire of the eastern part, namely to not finance a rotten country that works counter their interests, will naturally be absolutely inacceptable for kiev.

That issue (eastern parts) and the fact that the instigators zusa/zeu actually have not interest at all in ukraine itself (other than as a tool on the geastrategic map) is the very core of the problem (and not yanukovich, timochenko or whatever other polit-gangster).

And eastern ukraine doesn't need western ukraine or kiev; after all they have been "thrown in" decades ago. But kiev needs the eastern part; that's ukraines life-blood, without it ukraine has no viable existence.

I elaborate this to some detail because it shows once more a major the problem of the zusa/zeu/zato world: They plan and act based on maps, theories (most of them weird or insane), plain stupid "because I took that decision", and calcule - usually far away from reality, no matter whether it's about F-35 fair tale, about ignorant mid east dreams, or about a country like ukraine.
*theoretically* it may even have looked smart to them. Down on the ground, however, the situation is very different from what their "think"-tanks came up with.

Fittingly the "new government", no matter which puppets will staff it, is a wet dream, a somewhat berserk theory and no more. ukraines life-blood is in a part of the country, they won't even dare to go to. And they can't dictate by force; because they have none and because, if needed, Russia will stand behind "their" russian fellows.

So, Putin sure enough is not afraid, nor has he reason to be; and he did the smart thing: He let them stir their wet dreams, take decisions, create resolutions .... and it's all meaningless puppet theater. Just given them some time to find it out, and, being at it, find out that zusa/zeu will *talk* about financial help - but not shell out any reasonable amount of money.

In the end the question will be "Do the eastern regions break away in all but name or in name, too?"

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 24 2014 18:07 utc | 71

66) Believe me, there is nothing like the money that can be made in a corrupt place from privatizing public enterprises. It is much better than nationalizing bad business.

This here is Carlos Slim.

Yes, I do believe US oligarchy got out of hand. They seem to be short of public funds though recently.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 18:12 utc | 72

Anyway, right wing, fascist Bandera Svoboda Party got the post of Prosecutor General in Ukraine. Swobody would be illegal in most European countries.
With their right wing thugs they now have the power to "cleanse" Kyiv.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 18:21 utc | 73

73) more on those fascist democrats - Max Blumenthal

An Anarchist group called AntiFascist Union Ukraine attempted to join the Euromaidan demonstrations but found it difficult to avoid threats of violence and imprecations from the gangs of neo-Nazis roving the square. “They called the Anarchists things like Jews, blacks, Communists,” one of its members said. “There weren’t even any Communists, that was just an insult.”

“There are lots of Nationalists here, including Nazis,” the anti-fascist continued. “They came from all over Ukraine, and they make up about 30% of protesters.”

One of the “Big Three” political parties behind the protests is the ultra-nationalist Svoboda, whose leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, has called for the liberation of his country from the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.” After the 2010 conviction of the Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk for his supporting role in the death of nearly 30,000 people at the Sobibor camp, Tyahnybok rushed to Germany to declare him a hero who was “fighting for truth.” In the Ukrainian parliament, where Svoboda holds an unprecedented 37 seats, Tyahnybok’s deputy Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn is fond of quoting Joseph Goebbels – he has even founded a think tank originally called “the Joseph Goebbels Political Research Center.” According to Per Anders Rudling, a leading academic expert on European neo-fascism, the self-described “socialist nationalist” Mykhalchyshyn is the main link between Svoboda’s official wing and neo-Nazi militias like Right Sector.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 24 2014 19:06 utc | 74

Apply for an urgent loan at 3%interest. email us on [email protected]

Posted by: williams | Feb 28 2014 0:56 utc | 75

To: [email protected]
From [email protected]

Subject: 3% Loan

Mr. Williams,

We are in need of a loan. We are looking for approximately $35 Billion. Desperately need money for natural gas, Stepan Bandera statues, and $3 Billion misunderstanding with the China.

Will degrade the people of the Ukraine to any degree to get it. What do you want? Our daughters? Our sisters? No problem. And we don't let little things like people's hunger and misery get in the way of your investment.

As for the legitimacy of our government - do not worry. We are already recognized as legitimate by a neighborhood in Benghazi, the American Enterprise Institute, and those islands that vote for Israel in the UN. We also have a YouTube shout out from either Leopoldo Lopez or Madonna (we can never tell them apart). We have a promise to establish diplomatic relations with two companies of Syrian rebels... but we haven't heard back since yesterday.

3% is quite generous. If you funnel a few billions to account AYY12445232 in the Cayman Islands, we'll get the Ukrainian people to pay 10%. They won't notice - they'll be working to hard digging their own graves.

Thanks for your time. I have to run - I'm moving into a large estate that was recently vacated.

Thank you,

Arseniy Yatsenyuk

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 28 2014 1:30 utc | 76

Washington's Man Yatsenyuk Setting Ukraine Up For Ruin... which is precisely the plan!

“Yatsenyuk was saying that what the Greeks did to themselves we are going to do ourselves, he wants to follow the Greek economic model..."

...Yatsenyuk promised to implement “very unpopular measures” to stabilize the country’s finances. ... His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

“The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I’m going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country,” he said. “But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements....”


It is unclear the kind of measures Yatsenyuk will tolerate, but it appears austerity is the path forward. That includes a regimen of tax increases, interest rate hikes and further currency devaluation.

Yanukovych resisted the International Monetary Fund’s demand to raise taxes and devalue the currency. Yatsenyuk doesn’t mind. For economists who think austerity is a disaster, Ukraine is on a path to ruin.

“We saw this in the 90s and what the IMF did to Russia with Yeltsin. They’ll do that to Ukraine,” said Signorelli. Remember Slobodan Milošević in Yugoslavia? After the IMF finished with Yugoslavia it was only a matter of time before the separatist movements gained traction,” he said. “I think things in Ukraine can get really really bad.”

A real man of the people, this scumbag. The fact that the parliament voted him in 400-1 says all you need to know about who fascism works for.

These people are insane.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 28 2014 1:41 utc | 77

Link for 77

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 28 2014 1:42 utc | 78

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