Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 22, 2014

Ukraine: "From the spirits that I called - Sir, deliver me!"

What a deluge! What a flood!
Lord and master, hear my call!
Ah, here comes the master!
I have need of Thee!
from the spirits that I called
Sir, deliver me!
J.W. Goethe - The Sorcerer's Apprentice

The opposition in the Ukraine and its paymasters in the U.S. and EU called up the spirits of the right, the fascist, to wage a coup against the elected president and to push their selfish objectives onto the Ukrainian public.

Now those spirits won't go away:

It was difficult to know how much of the fury voiced on Friday night in Independence Square was fiery bravado, a final cry of anger before the three-month-long protest movement winds down or the harbinger of yet more and possibly worse violence to come.

Vividly clear, however, was the wide gulf that had opened up between the opposition’s political leadership and a street movement that has radicalized and slipped far from the already tenuous control of politicians.
...
Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of Right Sector, a coalition of hard-line nationalist groups, reacted defiantly to news of the settlement, drawing more cheers from the crowd.

“The agreements that were reached do not correspond to our aspirations,” he said. “Right Sector will not lay down arms. Right Sector will not lift the blockade of a single administrative building until our main demand is met — the resignation of Yanukovych.”

Even if Yanukovych resigns the demands of the fascist rioters will not end. Ukraine's chief rabbi tells Kiev's Jews to flee city and he has very good reasons to do so. Right Sector and the Svoboda party are well known for accute anti-semitism.

Yesterday sixty eight members of the ruling party of the regions changed over to the opposition which now has a majority in parliament. The parliament then changed the constitution to dismantle presidential powers, fired the interior minister who commanded the police force to defend government buildings and freed the corrupt gas-princess Tymoshenko from jail.

Putin will be smiling.

What the propagandists in the "west" always fail to mention is that Tymoshenko was jailed for a gas deal that favored Russia. She was in jail for agreeing to pay, allegedly, too high prices. Yanukovych, the man Putin hates and despises as a loser, is now out. Tymoshenko, the woman Putin loves signing lucrative trade deals with, is in. As the Ukrainian industry is not viable without access to Russian markets and the Ukrainian energy supply depends on Russian gas deliveries Moscow still has, and will continue to have, the upper hand over the Ukraine. At least half of the Ukrainian population is pro-Russian. No color revolution version 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 and no IMF austerity loan will change those facts.

Parts of the Ukraine will soon show signs of anarchy with those that protested and rioted without having any real aim moving towards criminal activities. The opposition, which is now empowered and will have to deliver results, will soon squabble and will again fall apart. The fascist forces, euphemistically called "nationalists" in "western" media, will win more power.

The sorcerer's apprentices in Washington and Brussels will come to understand that they can not control the spirits they called upon. They will need to call the master to put the spirits they awoke back into their holes. The international number they will need to call starts with 007 495.

 

Posted by b on February 22, 2014 at 14:19 UTC | Permalink

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More collusion from the empire/NATO. This from Truthdig:

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/cold_war_redux_in_ukraine_20140220

Posted by: ben | Feb 22 2014 14:45 utc | 1

b. you are underestimating Putin - and Yanukovic

A gathering of governors, provincial officials and legislators in Kharkiv approved a statement Saturday calling on regional authorities to take full responsibility for constitutional order on their territory.

Some called for forming volunteer units to protect against force by protesters from pro-European western regions. The assembly urged the army units deployed on their territories to maintain neutrality and protect ammunition depots.

and

Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovich has said that he will sign nothing with "gangsters" who are "terrorising" the country, during an interview with a Ukrainian television channel.

The embattled president claimed that his car was shot at, but showed no signs of injuries.

"My car was shot at. I am not afraid. I feel sorrow for my country," he told UBR television and Internet outlet.

and

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said that the Ukrainian opposition is being led by "armed extremists and pogromists" whose actions pose a direct threat to the country's sovereignty and constitutional order.

Mr Lavrov said the Ukrainian opposition failed to deliver on a deal signed with President Yanukovich on February 21. He called on Germany, Poland and France to use their influence with the opposition to ensure immediate fulfilment of the agreement.

:-))

So, the EU is stuck with Ukrainian agriculture whilst Russia links with the industrial business part of Ukraine and pockets Crimea.

The Russians are ordering another round of popcorn. It is the EU's move now.

Reporting in Germany on this has been abysmal by the way.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 15:06 utc | 2

This guy thinks it was all planned by Putin.

http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/32261422

I've posted this idea earlier, but I'll repost.
My take on this strategic game of geopolitical chess happening right now in Ukraine is that this crisis was engineered by Moscow.
Of course they attracted the stupid yankees in it as a decoy. The Americans are not that bright to begin with.
The plan was all along to partition Ukraine in 2 parts.
A couple of months ago Putin did not have tanks in Ukraine. Now it looks like half of Ukraine's territory, the most developed and with rich in resources, is about to "ask for protection" from Putin.
Look at it this way: Putin is advancing towards the West.
What we are witnessing is a masterfully played hand by Putin. It just doesn't appear that way at first glance, and superficial Westerners cannot see it.
This blond chick who was let out of jail.
Does anybody know what the trumped up charges were? I'll remind you: buying nat gas from Gazprom way above the market price.
That's right.
So you want me to believe that Putin, told Yanukovych in the past, "Hey tovariche Yanukovych , put that blond b****ch in jail, she wants to buy gas from me, and she wants to make me filthy rich doing so, I don't like that, I hate money".
And now she is out and about to rule the Western part of Ukraine, who will probably be the new Ukraine. My take, is that she is a double agent, and she is loyal to Putin.
So Putin will get a double agent of his in the western part of Ukraine as the ruler, while the naive populace will look at her as proEU, and his tanks in the eastern part of Ukraine, where he will be the ruler.
Hmmm... I just don't see what is he losing.
The Americans have been played. It's telling that in the compromise Germany and Poland were involved and not the Americans. Putin and Germany are in love, they just don't show it.

See folks, this is how strategic geopolitical moves are done. Very clever and very deceitful.
It smells of 1989 all over again. When Moscow allowed USSR to fall. Funny bunch the Russian, they make 2 step forward, one backward. And when they win something they make the enemy think they actually lost.
The Cold War never ended.

Posted by: Alexno | Feb 22 2014 15:13 utc | 3

When Medvedev calls you a 'doormat' you know you're a loser.

However, to see two elected Presidents ousted by mobs (Morsi and Yanukovych) will put Maduro and others on alert. It's a dangerous turn of events, which ever way you choose to look at it.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Feb 22 2014 15:19 utc | 4

3) Nah, that is silly. But it definitively has always been the fall back.
They do offer the EU the way out though to get control of their opposition. The EU probably control the politicians, they do not control the street. Which makes me wonder who does control the Fascists and what their plan is.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 15:23 utc | 5

Thanks Ben for the link to that amazing truthdig article with Professor Stephen Cohen, a must watch piece for all MoA readers, on the duplicity of the US/EU in Ukraine.

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 22 2014 15:40 utc | 6

The document that was signed between Gov and Oposition is very brief and difficult to interpret (link below.)

Yet, it clearly insists on the drafting of a New Constitution.

Not just on a return to the 2004 situation (Constitution dates from 1996, and it is a very generalist wordy document that has been violated many times, see 1) plus throwing out of all amendments (these can be voted in by Parliament in Ukr.) made since then, wording not very clear, but that was the aim of some of the protestors - but a complete re-vamp.

This will lead to endless quarrels at ‘higher levels’ using ‘principled arguments’ between parties who don’t have a clear mandate or position. Power-plays.

I understand that ppl want, feel the need, for a Constitution, though often it is of no use (see US Constitution, totally outdated and ignored)...this spells a long time stasis and time of confusion for Ukr. which is not good for anyone if considering broad interests. (Ukr. ppl, trade with Russia, EU, their interests, etc.)

It looks very much like a manipulatory, dilatory move, but who am I.

The signed doc does put a limit to the drafting, sept. 2014, but we all know that means nothing much.

1. Ex. from the present Constitution of Ukr.:

The land, its mineral wealth, atmosphere, water, and other natural resources within the territory of Ukraine, the natural resources of its continental shelf, and the exclusive (maritime) economic zone, are objects of the right of property of the Ukrainian people. Ownership rights on behalf of the Ukrainian people are exercised by bodies of state power and bodies of local self-government within the limits determined by this Constitution.

A-hem. Not. Plus, see the self-reference which leads to nowhere.

Every person has the right to free development of his or her personality if the rights and freedoms of other persons are not violated thereby, and has duties before the society in which the free and comprehensive development of his or her personality is ensured.

??

(from wiki, Const. Ukr.)

text of agreement. http://tinyurl.com/qzuwfqp


Posted by: Noirette | Feb 22 2014 15:42 utc | 7

Maybe Ia m too quick here but this might lead to a civil war and nato intervention and russian intervention, thereafter..

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 16:05 utc | 8

What a fucking murderous criminal embarrassment the United States is as a nation.

Check out this propaganda trash puff-piece from the NYT .

Hey Zionist propagandists of the NYT, can I ask you something?

Knowing that many of these people are fanatical fascist anti-Semites, are you going to run some similar puff-pieces disguising past murderous war crimes? I mean, it is documented that you Zionists only pay lip service to opposing fascist anti-Semites so why not give us some good, more truthful copy, kay?

How about these headlines for starters:

It's Official: Auschwitz Capos Like Strawberry Strudel Best

Eichmann: Can't Start Day Without Morning Cuppa

Himmler's Casseroles - Is More Butter The Final Solution?

I mean, I'm not calling you out as murderous, hypocritical war criminals that deserve - at the very least - to spend the rest of your natural lives rotting in a cold dark cell...oh wait, that's exactly what I'm doing.

Rot in hell, American war criminal propagandists. Truly, rot in hell.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 22 2014 16:21 utc | 9

LOL. Couldn't help myself from peaking over here to gauge the spin.

It is about as incoherent a take as to be expected from the proto-tankie crowd.

Victory for the "fascist" thugs! Yanukovich a coward who doesnt deserve Godfather Putin's support! He only killed a relative handful before slinking away with the rebellion unsuppressed. Not nearly as skillful or brave a Putin puppet as Assad.

Most incredulous spin of all---victory for Putin!

Havent seen that one anywhere else, not even from Putin's army of paid fakes on the MSM comment boards. Congratulations, b.

LMFAO

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 22 2014 16:31 utc | 10

"Which makes me wonder who does control the Fascists and what their plan is."

There is no plan. Just a general commitment to violence and subversion wherever there is less than complete obeisance to the Empire and its curious political economy cum religion.

We have seen the same thing in Syria, Libya, Iraq and dozens of other places in Africa and Latin America. US sponsored regime change movements, some successful as in Honduras, Paraguay, Cote D'Ivoire and so on, others thwarted as in Bolivia, Ecuador, Iran and Venezuela, have abounded in recent years. And the reason, the plan, is nothing less than dominance. Nothing less and nothing more, either, there is little co-ordination and less thought of the consequences. It is a paradise for adventurers, filibusters and fanatics: their mad dreams not merely tolerated but financed and protected by the Empire.

As to the Sorcerer's Apprentice: this one just cannot learn.

Or cannot change: he delights in all that offends most of humanity, he rides with the Four Horsemen, drinking blood, delighting in the sounds of suffering, wreathed with smoke and fire and glowing with radiation, he has no misgivings. Torture is his hobby, dismembering his avocation. At home he keeps millions of victims locked up-many of them going mad in solitary- to play with at his leisure.
The worst is that the more evil his acts are the more popular he becomes: where one would expect shunning and revulsion we find sniggering wannabes sucking up to him and emulating, in their own countries, his vile ways. Thus does neo-liberal callousness, privatisation and the abandonment of both young and old spread like a plague across Europe and elsewhere.

Solidarity, the infallible antidote, is his enemy which is why every wedge that can be driven into society is used to break communities, nations, peoples apart, replacing love and trust with envy, hatred and fear. Taking hospitals and transforming them into profit centres, putting turnpikes on highways, selling education and turning enquiring young minds into debt peons, trembling at the usurer's feet.

Cannibals don't need plans, just appetites.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2014 16:32 utc | 11

The gas princess arrival in the square - is this the point at which a stunned and mesmerized int'l audience will start to get skeptical of the over-the-top Disney movie playing out before their very eyes?

The fact that western media is consolidated, controlled, and slanted is not a surprise. The extent of it on display right now, especially the spread of it to social media, is stunning. People are usually smarter than this.

It's so over the top you have to wonder if the intel teams who work on these coups are toying with us, laughing and high-fiving as the crescendo begins, not caring too much about the aftermath that MofA predicts.

Posted by: gemini333 | Feb 22 2014 16:38 utc | 12

10) Maybe you are missing something

The interesting wild card in all of this is what happens with former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko. In the past, she found common ground with Yanukovych and also displayed a talent for being able to cut deals with Moscow. Might there be a scenario where Tymoshenko's release from prison could be in the works, facilitating her return to politics, and a good deal of behind-the-scenes politicking and negotiating with the key East Ukrainian oligarchs for creating a "soft landing" whereby Yanukovych's eventual departure from politics could be arranged—but with complete amnesty (and, important for any Ukrainian politician, preservation of his family's assets)—and with Tymoshenko able to do a better job in the diplomatic jiujitsu between Europe and Russia—striking a deal with Putin to modify the terms of the Ukraine-EU deal in ways which are not disadvantageous to Moscow's interests?

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 16:50 utc | 13

Excellent connection with the poem, b. These events are all quite poetic, even biblical.

Tymoschenko - I don't recall her name being thrown around with "Yats" and "Klitsch" by that beast Nuland. I wonder how they will sideline her.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 22 2014 17:11 utc | 14

gemini333

Its scary and tragic, people are really ignorant. This is real propaganda and it seems EU/US/NATO have won in Ukraine right now..
This " western attack" on Ukraine should wake up Russia, china, iran, syria and any other state that might think that EU/US/NATO can be trusted.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 17:12 utc | 15

In that Stephen Cohen, Democracy Now piece above, Obama is saying it is the responsibility of the Ukrainian Government to restore order in the streets and it should be done by removing its security forces from the streets. Unbelievable, and this guy is supposed to be a Professor of constitutional politics. Someone should ask him if a large crowd approached the White House with petrol bombs and clubs, would he stand down his security forces? He must think we are all as stupid as he is.

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 22 2014 17:14 utc | 16

@10 and the old troll farts and drools...

Posted by: bfrakes | Feb 22 2014 17:23 utc | 17

EU/US/NATO puppet Tymoshenko announced she aim for being the president.
And then I threw up!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 17:29 utc | 18

Let's assume that what is going in Kiev is truly a popular democratic uprising, a legitimate people-power movement, and not a ultra-nationalist fascist tail wagging the dog. Then the problem now for the U.S./EU is how to get the genie back in its bottle. Does Tymoschenko have any street cred? I don't think so. How about Ms. Nuland? Will she be back on the Maidan awarding loaves of bread for every member of Right Sector willing to climb on a bus back to Lviv?

Obama & Merkel have a mess on their hands.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 22 2014 17:30 utc | 19

Donkeyfail! The gift that keeps giving! Now, with even more Hysteria!

Posted by: ruralito | Feb 22 2014 17:33 utc | 20

18) She will split the vote, so what? Let's assume Ukraine can ever be glued together again, it would be Tymoshenko against this right wing guy against Klitschko (that is the "opposition") against Yanukovich (if he still got the nerve) or another representative of the party of the regions.

From the link above:

If Yanukovych resigns and agrees to hold new elections for both the Rada and the presidency, it is not automatic that pro-Western candidates would prevail in a new ballot. What would happen if south and east Ukraine essentially return the same people to office, for fear that a change in government that shifts to privilege Western Ukrainian interests would end up be detrimental to theirs? A new government could be seated that looks quite similar to the current one—at least in terms of its policies (including maintaining close economic links to Russia and maintaining the status of the Russian language). The problem that has always beset Ukrainian politics is that the West remains outnumbered—in terms of votes—by the south and east. If the latter regions believe that the westerners are attempting to gain by protest what they could not win at the ballot box, then a shift in government does not guarantee renewed political stability. If the triumvirate of the opposition were to take power in Kyiv, would key regions of Ukraine in the east refuse to recognize them as the legitimate government of Ukraine, and in turn begin to agitate for the creation of a separate East Ukrainian state?

So nothing happened, except the stupid EU Foreign ministers of Germany, Poland and France taking responsibility for an agreement that has already been broken.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 17:40 utc | 21

Mike Malony

Mess? Not at all, this is what EU/US/NATO wanted - a mess. They couldnt care less who runs Ukraine only they are pro EU/US/NATO which seems to be the result now if not something else happens.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 17:48 utc | 22

At this point I doubt Russia is going to do anything but just wait and condemn 'unlawful' behavior and complain about why US/EU/NATO never keeps on their promises (even for a few hours in this case). Like their response after the Orange Revolution they will go back to playing Ukrainian politics and commercial interests. If this evolves into a civil conflict between west and east Ukraine is something yet to be seen. I don't see much backing or will for action from the eastern pro-Russian side and Yanukovich can easily be ditched aside.

What would be interesting to follow on is how the state power and security forces just slip out of Yanukovich and his party control in mere hours after not that big incidents. It took much more in other recent events. Are the police and army so concerned about killing 'civilian' protesters? Protesters that we know were firing on that security forces. From the amount and distribution of casualties it could be said that the protesters even bested the security forces even being theoretically worse armed.

Who has and is calling and saying what to US and police generals? The lower officers will just follow orders, that's what they are trained and paid for. What about the information about Yanukovich party top members fleeing? If true, what do they know? That the security apparatus switched sides?

That's what I would interested to know, so I would thank anyone pointing to source for such details on the events if they exist.

Posted by: ThePaper | Feb 22 2014 17:53 utc | 23

@21 "If the latter regions believe that the westerners are attempting to gain by protest what they could not win at the ballot box ..."

Well golly gee Mr Perfesser man*, why oh why would they think that?!

*"professor of national-security studies at the U.S. Naval War College"

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 22 2014 17:55 utc | 24

Yanukovych's residence in Mezhyhirya had long been held up as an example of the Ukrainian elite's corruption and waste: It has been estimated to have cost $100 million to build. For most Ukrainians, however, this is the first time they've been able to see it up close.

In any country, a president who owned a zoo or a galleon might be viewed cynically. In a country with a per capita GDP of $7,300, such indulgences might be unforgivable.

Say what "lefties"?

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 22 2014 17:55 utc | 25

The thought I was exploring, Anonymous @ 22, was possibly events have outstripped U.S./EU management and possibly an appetite for direct action has been aroused among the Ukrainian citizenry. This will be a problem for U.S./EU when it comes to implementing the IMF austerity mandates.

On the other hand, if the analysis on this page is correct, and I think it is and has been, then the conclusion to draw is that the Right Sector and Svoboda street fighters will be brought to heel and things will muddle along.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 22 2014 18:05 utc | 26

Any idea why yanukovich released tymoshenko or was it simply part of the "deal"?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 18:06 utc | 27

If Tymoshenko manages to return to power, I'll be inclined to agree with the conspiracy theorist in the Guardian piece. If, as the piece in The National Interest, suggests, she could 'redo' the deal with Ukraine and EU, to include Russia in a tripartite deal, as Putin offered, she could be a superhero. Certainly the Germans would be grateful. Probably not the US though.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 22 2014 18:10 utc | 28

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html
Yanukovitch mansion, the vulgarity in gold. I think Msr Timoshenko has a great future now, Klistchko and Tiagnnibok will be eaten at breakfast. She is corrupted as the others but she is realist and pragmatic with a good relationship with Putin. Nothing will probably happen in the East if Russia has guarantees on Crimea and Odessa.

Posted by: André | Feb 22 2014 18:16 utc | 29

okie farmer

Its a win for US/EU/NATO regardless imo, the more pro-russian yanukovich is out of the game- thats what count for the west.


Ron Paul have some intresting articles on Ukraine up from his institute.
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 18:18 utc | 30

@27 Does Yanukovich control anything at this point? It doesn't seem so from open source news.

Now it will be interesting to see how they play the Tymoshenko card. Will the arrival of the promised hero-in-prison and 'mother of the land' 'appease the masses'? In my opinion that would make the story quite ridiculous.

Posted by: ThePaper | Feb 22 2014 18:18 utc | 31

Yanukovich, the idiot that couldn't shoot straight...What kinda of leader is afraid to use his own presidential powers??? The moment he caved in to the fascists demands, I knew something was wrong...Now he's trying to escape Ukraine into a third country??? Not even Russia will want him..That buffoon deserves every sh*t that comes his way..lol

Posted by: Zico | Feb 22 2014 18:35 utc | 32

23) people seem to have left for their home towns - which makes sense if they want to protect their family

Simon Shuster ‏@shustry 2h

Officer coming home to Sevastopol says they abandoned Interior Ministry in #Kiev yesterday. "It was full of guns. We just left it all."

It is possible that Ukraine uses a system whereby Kiev security is not recruited from Kiev. Just a guess.

Basically the opposition security has taken over, news are that police "defected" to them. The interior minister is opposition now, he has to write the pay checks, big question how.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 18:36 utc | 33

@32
Yanukovitch is not a stateman, that's all. He is partly responsible for this mess, not taking the good decisions on time. The results are Esatern Ukraine is left somewhere in the middle of nowhere with no direction.

Posted by: André | Feb 22 2014 19:03 utc | 34

The bitch Nuland is back in Ukraine!

Interesting live interviews from RT.
http://rt.com/on-air/

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 19:16 utc | 35

@30
If VY was so pro Russian why did he entertain the agreement with the EU? Can you imagine how angry that made the Russians? It's been widely reported that Putin and VY hate each other, on the other hand Timashenkco had a great relationship with Putin - she went to prison partly for that reason, and I will predict (that despite her paying too much for Russian gas), she will return to power. That's a win-win for Russia. The West will be co-opted if/when she returns to power.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 22 2014 19:21 utc | 36

My translation of neocon/neoliberal Tim Garton Ash's 'five things we learned' coup celebration in the Guardian:

Garton Ash the Neoliberal translated -- The West's plans for Ukraine and Russia:

1. Ukraine will be dismembered like Yugoslavia was. Mini-states are easier for The West to control.

2. The Eurasian Economic Union that Russia and other nations were attempting to establish: not happening. No such alternatives allowed unless they are subordinated to the US or the EU.

3. Whatever it takes, The West will teach Vladimir Putin that it is the boss.

4. The future, first for West Ukraine and then one more Eastern European mini-state at a time: EU debtor prisons.

5. There is no future for real revolution, but a great one for counterrevolutions.

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 22 2014 19:27 utc | 37

I think there is a major misunderstanding around timochenko.

timochenko did *not* make a deal that was favourable for Russia. In fact she made a deal that was ill planned by her and - certainly not by intention - turned out to be favourable for Russia.

How come? Well, consultants around timochenko, who bty. sure enough had neither Russias nor ukraines interest in mind but that of timochenko and her clan, strongly advised timochenko to link the price for gas to that of oil, feeling to "know" that oil prices would sharply drop. Well, they didn't, quite the contrary and so the deal turned to Russias favour.
Of course one can assume that Russia, after all a major oil market player (unlike ukraine), was in a better position to judge the deal and sure enough, they wouldn't have accepted it if it was bad for Russia. But that's not the point. The point is that timochenko did *not at all intend* to give Russia an advantage, quite the contrary.

And why would she? timochenko is a jewess and a well known Russia-hater who tried multiple times to harm Russia and who was rather leaning toward the west (if ukrainian politicians have leanings at all other than their own and their gangs advantage).

So, Putin certainly has no reason to be happy about timochenko returning to power (other than her being a stupid bitch that can be bought and tricked easily).

Was this whole ukrainian revolt and terror thing planned and instigated by Putin and blamed on the west?
Well, sure enough, some western thugs would like us to believe that. It wouldn't match, though. Not for the element timochenko (as alaborated above), not for Putins character, not for his modus operandi and not for the facts on ground; ukraine is a) simply too unimportant and b) would have its eastern/southern part fall to Russia anyway sooner or later.

Concerning the other issue, namely the street protests in some pro-Russia regions, that makes sense. They did that on the Crimea, too. But there is an immensely important point that is somewhat overshadowed by governors and other politicians and their powerful rising up and clearly standing up against the terrorists and thugs in kiev and the western regions. They are forming *militias* to be fully supported by (local) authorities. Which translates to "If you want to try you traitor games over here you's find tens of thousands of well equipped militias. And don't you dare to have state police trying a funny thing. As for zeu politicians visiting our part of he country: We have a bullet waiting for you".

The logic goes roughly like this:

The police forces are partly kiev controlled, so don't trust them and assume they might turn against you.
The military will most probably stay neutral. If not chances are (still) that they'll turn against opposition and police. In the remotely possible case of the military falling to the terrorists and traitors, the pro-Russia needed to "emergency defend" their regions for a day or two, both giving Russia a little time to deploy their military (having been asked for help obviously) and giving Russia an acceptable pretext. In that context, one must not forget that whatever funny things the terrorists incl. the parliament traitors and whores "decide" carries no legal meaning whatsoever. Such, if yanukovich, or for that matter, a governor or pretty much anyone halfway official, called Russia for help, Russias intervention would at least not be grossly illegal.

I do, however, not think the ukrainian forces, no matter whether state-/interior ministry police or military, will dare to create trouble in the eastern/southern part. Actually, I'd rather expect major parts of ukraines mil. forces to turn themselves over to Russia.

Putin didn't need to engineer anything in the background. Just sitting by and letting happen what had to happen was plain enough.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 22 2014 19:28 utc | 38

Many here were urging Yanukovitch to crack down hard on the street protesters and that is what he did on Thursday. This is the result. Too many police and people in the Ukrainian government would not accept that level of violence required to put down the insurrection and they therefore bolted to the opposition. At least for now the most militant street fighters control the streets of Kiev and probably most of Western Ukraine.

The big question today is how the Russian provinces react. The Crimea has already threatened to secede if the ultra right Ukrainian nationalists were to force Yanukovitch from power. I would imagine that Odessa might join them if that came to pass. Kharkov and the Don Bas region may also join. We really do not know. I have no idea how strongly the people in Eastern Ukraine care about how their government is ruled and if they would be willing to support a civil war.

However this plays out in the coming days or weeks it is not a situation that Putin wanted to see happen. However, he will have to react to events. One thing I am fairly sure of is the Russia is not going to willingly give up Sevastopol. Khrushev's big mistake giving the Crimea to the Ukraine, will probably be reversed at the least. There is a possibility that a new nation of Western Ukraine will end up completely land locked accept for access to the Black Sea via the Dnieper River. I am pretty sure that as of today there is no one running this show. US and EU meddled and empowered the street thugs of Kiev, but there is no way they could have planned or even wanted this outcome.

Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 22 2014 19:30 utc | 39

b

what are the possibilities of the south & eastern ukraine seeking the same assistance as south ossettia & abkhazi

tonight, my city nantes is an an armed camp with helicopters & state repression very evident on every street corner, to stop a large manifestation opposing an airport here

if the protesters are armed in ukraine or venezuela, it is o k

if people protest in the west, they bring out all their repressive force

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Feb 22 2014 19:34 utc | 40

Obama's poll ratings is around 30%..Does it mean Americans can unseat him with violence??? Funny how the gamers of this colored coup thing have managed to use the ignorant masses to destroy their own country on some flimsy pretext like "freedom" and "human rights" etc etc..We saw this in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Venezuela etc etc..

Often times, the government that comes afterwards is worse than the one before and people thus become worse off. But they can't complain so the entire nation suffers. Go to Egypt,Libya, Syria, Tunisia today and ask anyone what they think about the "Arab Spring". I'm almost certain many would say they wish it had never happened!! They're f*cked!! But they can't complain coz they're the main engine of their own downfall.

Ignorance of the masses in any country is a potent weapon for the enemy of that country...The new unelected/self-appointed leaders of Ukraine will have the daunting task of ruling from now on..They'll have to pay salaries and pensions. From where will they get that money from???? Like in the "Arab Spring" countries, the people will just suck it up and suffer in quiet. Suckers R Us! :^)

Posted by: Zico | Feb 22 2014 19:34 utc | 41

Toivos

Cracked down hard? According to who? Foxnews?
Besides to deny west wanting Yanukovich out of power, is naive, to say atleast. Then you havent understood whats going on at all.
You dont really belive US/EU did this for "democracy"?

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 19:45 utc | 42

okie

Timoshenko is pro-west thats why west supports her and want her free, I think MR. Pragma got it right about this her and Russia at #38.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 19:49 utc | 43

39) this here is Churkin according to the New York Times

Mr. Churkin reserved some of his most forceful comments for the situation involving Ukraine, accusing the Western powers, including the United States, of supporting politicians who are in turn egged on by fascists.

“Either they don’t understand the consequences of what they’re doing, or they’re engaged in a very provocative game of destabilizing Ukraine and therefore Eastern Europe,” he said.

Reading Timothy Garton Ash - 37) I agree with your translation - it is the latter.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 19:51 utc | 44

Live from timoshenko.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_LFrMcoEm4

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 22 2014 19:57 utc | 45

Ad "Sevastopol"

Many mix up things and equal Sevastopol (main black see fleet navy base) and Russias access to the black see.

Well, as the Olympic games have shown to many, Russia *does have* its own access to the black sea.

What many might not know: No, Russia is *not* depending on Sevastopol or ukraine. Putin, one again showing himself smart and professional, already a decade ago launched a major (and well financed) initiative to establish (the already existing major business port of) Novorossiysk, a city of about 250.000, as a, in the long run, the major Russian black see fleet base. The city lays around the "end" of a major bay (Tsemes bay) with excellent deep water port situation (depth 20 - 30m).

As it happens, Novorossiysk is just around 200 km northwest of Sochi and very considerably profitting from the infrastructure projects (e.g. railway) for the Sochi Olympic games ...

In simple words: Russia could take out their fleet from Sevastopol tomorrow morning and have an excellent, modernized, perfectly capable fleet base at Novorossiysk.

I felt it helpful to mention this as there are quite many speculations about ukraine having Russia "at the balls" over Sevastopol or about Putin *needing at pretty any price* to find a nice compromise with ukraine. Nope. Not so.


Ceterum censeo israel americanamque vehementer delenda esse!

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 22 2014 20:07 utc | 46

Ash's piece in the Guardian only had one sentence of truth in it

"...The EU miscalculated by delivering an "us or them" ultimatum last autumn, without offering Ukraine desperately needed ready cash or a clear perspective of EU membership."

Otherwise it's just propaganda.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 22 2014 20:27 utc | 47

Don't misunderstand zeu politicians meaning! If zeu politicians now "confess" even the smallest bit of responsibility then it's only for one reason and one reason only: To "explain" why the zeu citizens will have to pay a hefty bill.

If one *really* wanted to make this planet a better place to live, there would be only one thing to do: Kill (at least) the Top 5 levels of "government" and administration officials in zusa, zeu, all zeu countries and then completely bomb izrael home that is, to hell.

The problem isn't "economic", "financial", or "left" or "right". The problem is obama, zusa generals, merkel, cameron, timochenko, nuts-and-yahoo, jewland and accomplices - and their real masters, most of which happen to be a) jewish and b) beyond filthy rich.

(Yeah, go ahead and bore me calling me "racist")

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 22 2014 20:58 utc | 48

The problem of Eastern Ukraine is that they have no good leaders to lead a political fight at the moment, or we still don't know them. Yanoukovitch is a crook and pain in the ass and finished, Dobnin the Kharkov mayor who was barking, fled away, only Crimean people seem ready and I'm not even sure Russia will support them. They are like potatoes in a bag...

Posted by: André | Feb 22 2014 21:07 utc | 49

RT is trying to stir the nazi fear (as if the neoliberal 'democrats' in power in the Western Empire had any fear of their grandparents).

20:09 GMT: The radical nationalists Right Sector say they will not be leaving Independence Square, defying new Rada speaker Aleksandr Turchinov who has told all those who have manned the barricades for the past weeks to return to their homes, saying that all political objectives have been achieved.

“Insofar as we – Right Sector - are concerned, we are going nowhere,” said a statement from the movement on social network VK.com.

The group previously said that its demands – which include a ban on the Communist Party and the Party of Regions – have still not been met.

But even the BBC seems to be getting the feel that not all welcome The Seletected Princess:

While many of the tens of thousands of people in Independence Square cheered Ms Tymoshenko, the BBC's David Stern in Kiev says she remains a divisive figure in the opposition - partly blamed by many Ukrainians for chaos after the Orange Revolution. The BBC's Tim Wilcox, in the Maidan, saw dozens walk off during her speech, saying that she did not represent them.
Duncan Crawford BBC News tweets: Response to Yulia Tymoshenko's speech is quite mixed. Many in crowd sceptical saying they don't want her to be the next President. #Ukraine

Meanwhile our beloved leaders remain on their own happy world. Bring the IMF and convert Ukraine to the True God:

Carl Bildt Sweden's foreign minister tweets: New Ukraine government needs both radical economic reform package and radical international support efforts. Need to move fast.

Let's see how the 'new police' forces react to the people in Maidan:

(from RT) 20:14 GMT: The acting minister of internal affairs, appointed by the Rada earlier on Saturday, has announced a joint meeting of Ukrainian law enforcement, police, and security forces which have taken part in the protection of Independence Square during the violent riots. The meeting will also include members of the Freedom and Right Sector nationalist groups. “I have to say, honestly, the situation in Kiev is not simple. Trust in the police has been lost,” Arsen Avakov told local Channel Five TV station.

Avakov said that he and Valentin Nalivaichenko – newly appointed by the Rada to lead the Ukrainian Security Service – will lead the meeting, during which they plan to agree on joint actions and patrolling of the new Ukrainian police, which Avakov said is now on the side of the people.

“I think, in the shortest time we will restore control over the situation, and there will be no unpleasant incidents,” Avakov said.


Posted by: ThePaper | Feb 22 2014 21:19 utc | 50

Ukraine Protests: Israeli Ex-Officer Leads Militant Group

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-protests-israeli-ex-officer-leads-militant-group-094657071.html#bVoWrvs

Posted by: maimar | Feb 22 2014 22:13 utc | 51

50) This here is RT too, and presumably reflects closely the view from Russia

While the EU and the US State Department have been ceaselessly recruiting proxies on the ground and media spinning Ukraine, this former Soviet republic faces economic collapse and financial default. The economic situation in Ukraine is grave. Russia has decided to step away from its gesture of economic aid in the amount of $15 billion. When it was promised, there was a legitimately elected government in Kiev. Now the EU plan up-ends the political playing field. Will Victoria Nuland and Brussels bail out the rioters on the streets of Kiev? The good folks of eastern and southern Ukraine would like to know.

Some final thoughts...

Washington and Brussels have long wanted and planned regime change in Ukraine. This just might happen. But both should be wary of wishes coming true. The end result may be a failed western Ukraine state on its border – populated with people with less than "euro values" to say the least. Then there is Russia and its interests. Western mainstream media again are at their best when it comes to mediocre, lazy, and biased reporting. The fact is, Russia doesn't trust the political class in Ukraine – irrespective of its political tastes and preference. Whether it is Viktor Yanukovich, Viktor Yushchenko, or Yulia Tymoshenko, from the Kremlin's perspective they are all political losers and unreliable partners.

Ukraine is being torn apart. It is my guess that Washington and the EU will get the least desirable piece of the action. Regime change is a bad habit that historically leads to even worse outcomes. Sadly for Ukrainians, Western bad habits do nothing to make their lives better.


Posted by: somebody | Feb 22 2014 22:21 utc | 52

Mr.Pragma @48 you said it as i have been dreaming it for a long time!Thanks.
@bevin,Thanks for a very thoughtful analysis(as always…)
@b,thanks for ,in a very long fog of war that we are living,expressing always very clearly the geopolitical game and the cold perspective of the actions of a demented West.

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 22 2014 22:25 utc | 53

A bit off topic..Has anyone noticed how Italy's been handed an UNELECTED president, which is approved by the EU??? Ain't democracy just lovely..lol

Suckers R Us!!!!

Posted by: Zico | Feb 22 2014 23:10 utc | 54

Flashback, Thursday 25 November 2004, from The Guardian:

THE MILLIONAIRE REVOLUTIONARY

She has been a powerful voice during this week's protests in Kiev. But who is Yulia Tymoshenko?

Posted by: erichwwk | Feb 22 2014 23:29 utc | 55

@54 Yes. Another disaster in the making. He is referred to as "Italy's Tony Blair". In the new bizarro world we now live in, this is passes a compliment...

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 22 2014 23:52 utc | 56

Remembering Giap @40 -

Dear old comrade, it is great to see your name show up here. You are correct, of course, when local populations try to demonstrate peacefully against abuses or for constructive changes the government thinks nothing of bringing security forces and intimidation and violence in to quell it. That is the story of the October 2011/Occupy movement in the U.S.

(Do you have any new writing or poetry to share with us?)

Posted by: Maxcrat | Feb 22 2014 23:53 utc | 57

Ukraine:
More information is coming in about the "unanimous" vote of the Ukrainian parliament for the new fascist government in Ukraine. The whole delegation of the deputies from the Communist Party of Ukraine were detained and others voted using their cards. many of the deputies were beaten up. The party headquarters were plundered and destroyed. It appears that a number of the deputies from the hitherto ruling Party of the Regions were detained as well by the opposition's paramilitaries.
................govts should refuse to recognise any neonazi govt arrived at by COUP...here is a real test of character for govts media and HR groups

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 0:14 utc | 58

HRC was at the helm of the disastrous Libyan policy and she helped set the course for the Ukrainian policy as well. Her neocon spokeswoman at State was exposed in choosing the crew for the junta fronting the coup. How long will the Obama Administration continue with these failed neocon/neolib policies? HRC may need to support Zionist policies 110% in order to raise big money for a presidential bid, but the majority of the American public (and an even higher majority of Democrats) rejects such policies.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Feb 23 2014 0:15 utc | 59

#46, Pragma. It seems extremely unlikely that Putin will allow a Ukraine that joins NATO and the EU to keep the Crimea. In fact if they had to intervene to that extent, it seems they would not stop there. This is a fairly good read on what is happening in Sevastopol:
Link to WaPo

Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 23 2014 0:46 utc | 60

Next -- "revolution" eats its revolutionaries
Ethnic cleansing in the West and Center of the country
Civil war in the East
Poverty and misery

Ukraine is a Stalin's creation. Dismantle this grotesque badly lumped together land. There is no such thing as a Ukrainian. There are Ruthins in the West and Cossacks in the East. The two people had never been together in a thousand years until Stalin put them together. The Ruthins had always been under the Polish rule. Let them join Poland again and they will go to "sleep". The Cossacks defeated the Polish under Khmelnizki and will never recognize Polish superiority.

Posted by: CC | Feb 23 2014 0:48 utc | 61

Here is an excellent analysis of the situation, focusing on German interests in the Ukraine: link
....

Gennady Zyuganov, who came in (a distant) second to Putin in the 2012 presidential elections, sees exactly where this is headed: the attempted break up of Russia. And he names the main culprit - the racist nationalist and darling of the USA (anyone starting to see a pattern here?), Aleksey Navalny.


"The imperial West continues its Cold War against us. Its strategists consider the fact that Russia is a multi-ethnic state. In order to weaken the country they use both the nationalism of bourgeoisie in national regions and the Russian nationalism that is capable of undermining the strength of the nation-forming ethnos. Both threats can destroy the country’s integrity. This is what the world capital is after when they support the growth of nationalist separatism in Russia,” Zyuganov noted.

“The methodology of instigating interethnic wars had been tested long before the so-called Arab Spring. The provocateurs’ methods are working for the western expansion to this time,” he added.

Zyuganov said that the now famous anti-corruption blogger-turned-opposition politician Aleksey Navalny was a typical example of how nationalist rhetoric is used by pro-Western liberals.

“Although they pretend that cannot stand each other the liberals and Russian nationalists were standing side to side during the Bolotnaya and Sakharova rallies,” Zyuganov said referring to the most numerous opposition marches of recent years.

“Navalny is a direct offspring of their union. The Yale University graduate, the advocate of democracy and Human Rights is willingly digging into the nationalist field,” the head of the Russian Communists added. It should be noted that Navalny only spent six months at Yale in 2010 on the Yale World Fellowship program.

Speaking of Russian nationalism, Zyuganov directed the audience’s attention to the fact that many regional programs were sponsored and supported from abroad and this could only raise questions.

“The legitimization of separatism is often being held under the slogans of reviving some exceptional regional identity. In Rostov-on-Don they have already had a conference on the problems of forming the Southern Russian identity. The United States sponsored this event and reporters from Ukraine and Poland discussed different ways of splitting Russians’ national identity. There are groups in Siberia that directly state that as a colony this region has the right for self-determination,”

http://rt.com/politics/communist-russia-breakup-jail-479/

Navalny, of course, is a dangerous traitor no different than "Yats" and "Klitsch". The goals the USA has for him, though, are very different. Should he get catapulted to power (and it will be with the help of the same sort of fascists now at work in the Ukraine), his racist, nationalist leanings would be used to break up the SCO, the Eurasian Customs Union and finally Russia herself - ironically - in the name of "Russian Nationalism" that seeks to exclude minority groups that have always been part of the make up of Russia.
...

More on the attacks on the Ukrainian Communist Party by the fascists - no surprise here, this is what fascists do: http://cprf.ru/tag/ukraine/

A message from the Communist Parties of the former Soviet Union

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 1:09 utc | 62

Reading down the list of "educated" (read: f*cking imbecilic) comments by people who post at the American war criminal propaganda outlets such as the NYT and the WaPo, I have repeatedly run across this exchange in a number of iterations/variations.

Poster 1: Yanukovych was the democratically elected President of Ukraine in elections judge free and fair. This is a violent coup.

Poster 2 (read: f*cking delusional American troglodyte): Because Yanukovych used violece, snipers, blah blah blah against his own people he abrogated the rights he had as said leader and his ouster is entirely justified.

Having read this same exchange over and over at different sites, I find it a perfect encapsulation of the true depths of American exceptionalism as it exists as a brainwashing technique.

Excuse me, delusional American f*ckhead, but since the abrogation of international treaties, laws and whatnot seems to now be the criteria by which one can judge whether a world leader is legitimate or not, what does that say about our own murderous war criminal leaders and those of greatest ally the apartheid genocidal state of Israel?

The hoped for response response.


Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 23 2014 1:20 utc | 63

Christ, b. This blog is like it was written by a low-level FSB cog. I hope the money is OK. Otherwise, you should spend more time down at the harbor looking at the pretty shipyard cranes.

Posted by: slothrop | Feb 23 2014 1:36 utc | 64

@63
They are "delusional" for the same reason those 40-50+ members of the Party of Regions had been members of the party and then quit it and became "independent" as soon as Yanukovich left the capital.

Posted by: CC | Feb 23 2014 1:44 utc | 65

Anonymous Ukraine releases Klitschko e-mails showing treason
Vitaly Klischko
Photo: EPA
Vitaly Klischko

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Anonymous Ukraine is battling the forces in Ukraine that are funded and directed from the West and attempting to overthrow the democratically elected government of the sovereign country of Ukraine. Anonymous Ukraine is operating in what can only now be described as a war zone and the security measures they are forced to take are extreme. A member of Anonymous Ukraine who wishes to remain anonymous spoke to the Voice of Russia about the operations and the recent release of e-mails between Vitaly Klischko and the Lithuanian Presidential advisor. The e-mails show that Klitschko was intentionally planning to destabilize the country, is being instructed and funded from abroad and has his accounts in Germany. This is clear evidence of treason. The member of Anonymous does not speak for the entire Anonymous movement but comments as a member of Anonymous Ukraine. As Anonymous has no leaders and the situation is fluid operations may change at any point when consensus is reached.

Greetings citizens of the world. We are Anonymous Ukraine.
The Anonymous Hacktivist Collective worldwide is partially divided on the issue of Ukraine. This has to do with the western mass media propaganda and the conflicting reports that are coming out of the country. This is sad as some Anons are unknowingly supporting the dark forces at work in Ukraine. Members of Anonymous Ukraine are aware of the internal meddling by the United States, NATO and the European Union into the internal sovereign affairs of Ukraine. Anonymous Ukraine supports peace and the right of the people to self determination. The Bandera Nazis and fascist thugs that are beating and killing police and members of the security services of Ukraine do not represent the will or the wishes of the people of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine do not want European Union integration. The people of Ukraine do not want NATO on their territory. The people of Ukraine voted for President Yanukovich to lead them in fair and just democratic elections. The people of Ukraine plea to the President and to Russia for help in stopping the siege of Ukraine by Nazi thugs and murderous gangs. The people of Ukraine do not want to see their beloved capital Kiev occupied by Nazi killers and burned to the ground. The people of Ukraine want their independence to be recognized and be allowed to determine their own fate without pressure from US, NATO, European Union. The people of Ukraine want peace and want the Bandera Nazis to be stopped once and for all. Anonymous Ukraine does not like nor support what is happening in Ukraine now. The so-called opposition is trying to tear Ukraine apart. Anonymous Ukraine has released the e-mails of one of the leaders of the so called opposition and will continue to expose the moves by the west to subvert the sovereign country of Ukraine. The e mails released by Anonymous prove that Vitaly Klichko is a puppet of the West and is being financed through intermediaries in Lithuania. The e mails also prove that Klitchko has bank accounts in Germany and is receiving funding for his coup d’état from the West. We will continue fighting these puppets. The western puppet opposition leaders will hurl Ukraine into chaos. We appeal to the president of our country. The people of Ukraine urge you. President Yanukovich, to restore order and bring calm and stability and disperse the gangs of robbers and Nazis. Anonymous Ukraine will strike at all of the web resources of western hirelings and fascists. Anonymous Ukraine calls for Ukraine to be unified and independent. The government of Ukraine promoted the country's integration into Euro-Atlantic institutions despite the reluctance of Ukrainian people. Ukrainian citizens realize that signing of the Association Agreement with the European Union will lead to the collapse of Ukrainian economy in the near future. We express our support to the people of our country. We want Ukrainian government and EU leadership to understand that people of Ukraine do not want their country to become a raw material donor to Europe. Ukraine must be free. We do not want to be dependent on other countries or organizations. Ukrainian people do not need a speculative Association Agreement with the European Union. Ukraine does not need to be a part of Russia-led Eurasian customs union. We do not need to be servants of NATO. Ukraine does not need European Union. Ukraine does not need NATO. Ukraine should not be anybody's servant. We stand for independent Ukraine. We declare the continuation of Operation Independence. We will strike at the web resources of countries and organizations that pose a threat to freedom and independence of Ukraine!
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_02_23/Anonymous-Ukraine-releases-Klitschko-e-mails-showing-treason-3581/

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 1:46 utc | 66

@64
slopthrop
troll alert

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 1:47 utc | 67

ToivoS (60)

I disagree. What you say is right - *if* looking from the established (and outdated) "western" (basically dictated by zusa) perspective, according to which zato and zeu are immensely powerful and important. Seen like that, of course, Putin must never allow ...

But Putins reasoning is not guided by western fairy tales and self-delusion.

For a start, Putin is not losing anything but winning a lot (Crimea and eastern regions).
Even *if* zato build a base in rest-ukraine that base would be far more west than it could have been some weeks ago (well, theoretically).
More importantly though, Putin knows that zusa is about PR and show. And he knows about the impotence of western missile systems. *Of course* Putin complains about those systems and loudly! First that's a good chip in negatiations, an excellent reason for an "aggressive" stance and cancelling agreements, and a powerful trap because zusa loves nothing more than believing that evil Russia to shit in their pants because they're sooo afraid of zusas "supremacy" bla bla weapons.

In reality though Russia could hardly care less about those unreliable ancient missiles (seen from Russias perspective who actually does have high tech missiles).

But there's more. With the eastern regions Russia wins a *reliable* partner, virtually all of todays ukraines industry and economic power, and control over all of the northern black see coast, to name but a few.
With "Crimealand" (the southern and eastern part of ukraine) as partner in their eurasia union Russia wins >90% of what there was to gain with ukraine but only 5% of the trouble.


@CC (61)

You worded it somewhat harsh but I agree. And yes, nailing western ukraine to Poland would be one of the more preferable solutions. And as you said they fit; both will sell out their mother plus their daughter to whoever is there to be pleased. Talking loud and self-important, their military significance is about that of a dog kennel and an angry priest.

On a more serious note though, I don't expect poland to exist long enough to provide a long term solution.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 1:52 utc | 68


Yup, he gets it esp. about Navalny etc. But one thing that kind of gets lost in the shuffle is best depicted in
this story about how the having the CIA pose as doctors on an anti-polio vaccine in Pakistan may have potentially - oops! - led to more polio deaths.

Now, I don't believe a g*ddman word about ANY of the OBL fairy tale esp. his "death" etc, but in taking that story and extrapolating to the larger picture of the United States' war on reality one of the outcomes is that given another 5 years of needless murder, rape, maiming, theft, displacement etc carried out by the US in its Global War oF Terror, the terms "democracy" "human rights" "freedom" and any other false banners the US has been cynically using to commit said war crimes will be no longer be meaningful to humanity.

Throughout history - it seems that cultures - even warring ones - understood that there at the very very least had to be some sort of agreement/acceptance as to a shared reality and this would be reflected in analogous words in different languages, etc.

Not this time. The US is drastically perverting and attacking the very fabric by which humanity can speak transculturally and that is why people who participate in this campaign - of course, all of the American war criminals but also the Navalnys, Pussy Riot, Klitsch, etc - should be condemned - IMO - even more harshly than war criminals of times past.

Due to their evil machinations, they are damaging the means by which peoples of varying locations/cultures could indeed actually work together to help one another for the actual benefit of mankind/rise above their differences. Their evil will live long after they are gone and it will manifest itself not just in a distrust of one people against another but in a potential breakdown in the ability to communicate.

They are deliberately and blatantly crossing a line that - I would argue - was never so completely/willingly ignored before because it was seemingly inherently known that to cross it would be madness. Because the American war criminals haven't been stopped yet they attribute to their own cleverness in using these devices when it's partly because I don't think the world has quite YET caught up to the sheer magnitude of what the US is attempting to pull off.


Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 23 2014 1:59 utc | 69

guest77 (62)

I'd take that with some care. It's reasonable to assume that Zyuganov has blood-red eyes concerning navalny.

Of course, navalny is a criminal, a cheap whore, and a traitor. But he is also an propaganda asshole pretty nobody in Russia gives anything about. His credibility and importance is pretty much limited to a few scumbags who get their checks from the zusa embassy to "believe" and propagate what they're told and generally to make some noise.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 2:01 utc | 70

brian (66)

*** BEAUTIFUL ***

Unfortunately there seem to be no links supporting their statements.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 2:02 utc | 71

JSorrentine (69)

... and zusa (and zeu) is basically inviting anyone who pleases to do so to create havoc in their client states. All they have to do is to explain "Uh well, we did what zusa taught us to be human, democratic, legitimate".

Of course this is purely hypothetical because Russia, unlike zusa, doesn't not employ imbecile, incompetent maniac liars; neither in the security services nor in government.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 2:09 utc | 72

"has blood-red eyes "

This is some idiom I don't understand. What does it mean?

He certainly seems to have Navalny sized up correctly.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 3:29 utc | 73

guest77

It means he goes berserk mode as soon as anything is about navalny.
Understandably so because navalny is an immensely detestable low life.
And no, he doesn't size him up correctly insofar as he paints navalny bigger (a threat or in any term) than he is. De facto navalny is a rather insignificant as*hole virtually nobody in todays Russia cares about.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 4:23 utc | 74

Forgot to add up there at 61
Religious persecution

Ethnic cleansing for a pure Rusyns nation

A war as the Rusyns try to grab the wealth accumulated by the Cossacks in the East

Religious persecution to drive away Orthodox and bring in their Greek Catholic Church, a strange church imposed on the Rusyns by the Catholic Poles, followed by Catholics themselves

In every calamity, there is an opportunity. Perhaps, something should come out of this, especially for the Cossacks. A rise of a Cossack State would be a threat to Russia, as it would immediately be clear that those people living on the other side of Ukrainian boarder are not Russians. Just look at the names of those cities: New Poltava, New Cherkassy. Perhaps, the stars will align in such a fashion that the Cossacks ships will once again sail the waters of the Black sea...

Posted by: CC | Feb 23 2014 4:30 utc | 75

According to rumours (I want to be cautious and I have not yet seen proof) president Putin is ready to send a massive military contingent to protect Crimea in case Crimea, a quite autonomous republic, asks Russia for help.

I wrote it some months ago. Putin wanted to offer zusa a fair chance to leave the stage in dignity. Some time later it became obvious that Putins and (then) Xis patience got thinner and thinner. Meanwhile, as experienced the first time in the Syria crisis, Putin (and almost certainly Xi) have reached a point where they openly confront zusa and almost provoke it into a war.
The last stage, if zusa doesn't get the message and obeys, will be rightout military confrontation.

One scenario could - very soon - be China taking back their island (which the japanese call senkaku) and installing a mil. base there. Considering abe (jap. president or prime minister or some such) a military response can be assumed basically guaranteed. Doing that would necessarily involve zusa which - loudmouthed as usual - guaranteed japans security.
That would be a lose/lose scenario for zusa. If they shied back they'd lose their standing as a protective and leading power. If they engaged they'd find themselves in a multi front war they are bound to lose.

Lovely.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 4:52 utc | 76

Crowds gather in Sevastopol to demand reunification with Russia
Main square of Sevastopol, home of Russian Black Sea fleet: protest demanding reunification with Russia #ukraine
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/437224480495370240/photo/1

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 5:28 utc | 77

Mr P.,

You keep assuming that ZATO and ZEU are weak, while most in the West assume that Russia is weak. For one thing, there are far more folks that you would call traitors in China and Russia than in the West. A huge percentage of those with money and power in China have major assets in Western countries, if not their children or grandchildren.

So, if you agree with this difference of opinions, what do you see as happening? ZATO will keep pressing hard, so when and how will Russia or China respond? I doubt that China wants to occupy an empty island, especially when it would interfere with more important tasks, such as getting SE Asia to join the Chinese-favored trading system, and not the TPP. As a separate topic, you may be assuming that the Japanese government is pro-US. I would submit that they are not, but the only way to gain any independence from US pressure is to build a military and internal police force. And you are probably aware of the deals Japan is cutting with Russia to develop a fair bit of Eastern Russia and preparing for the massive development move into NK, which has tremendous natural resources. The US is very unhappy with these Japanese deals.

Posted by: Ozawa | Feb 23 2014 5:40 utc | 78

The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine

Paying upwards of three and a half thousand dollars, men from across the globe travel to Odessa in the hope of meeting beautiful young women. But despite accusations of being little more than a legalised pimping service, clients such as Arthur, a 65 year-old veteran of six romance tours, have no qualms with the service they offer. "It's like purchasing a very nice used Cadillac," he explains. "I need to drive it before I make a decision about taking it home and putting it in my garage."

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 6:06 utc | 79

Mr. Pragma, the problem with those islands is they are both tiny pile of rock, impossible to build a military base on. They are entirely of symbolic significance. Recall that both islands were owned by one man, who under US influence sold the islands to Japan - intending absolutely as provocation of China. I think it's more likely if military action comes it will be over China having declared a Zone of Influence or Oversight or something like that, and US/Japan will continue to challenge that Zone with possible military repercussions.

The other thing to consider is that China has, as best we can tell, entirely a soft power strategy everywhere in the world. Yes, they've built up their military over the last decade, but I see that as, first, a show of their scientific and economic power, and second, as letting the West know they will not be pushed around my threats of military force.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 23 2014 6:18 utc | 80

I know this isn't about Ukraine, but it would be a mistake to ignore Venezuela. And anyway the more I see of Yanukovich's little Versailles Palace, the more I think he's getting what he deserves - even if the people of the Ukraine most certainly are not.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10386

Further, on Wednesday a machine gun of Israeli origin was found in a safe house in Mérida. United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) governor of Mérida, Alexis Ramirez, said investigations suggested the weapon was to be used against security forces and opposition protestors to provoke an escalation of violence.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10391

President Maduro has ordered the arrest of retired General Angel Vivas, who promoted the use of wire at blockades in order to “neutralise” people on motorbikes. One government supporter on a motorbike died by such a method last night.

On 20 February Vivas tweeted “In order to neutralise criminal hordes on motorbikes, one must place nylon string or galvanised wire across the street, at a height of 1.2 metres”.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10390

Ukraine. Bosnia. Venezuela.

Tear gas. Masks. Water cannons.

Ours is an age of riots and rebellions, of radical self-creation in the heady streets: Spain’s indignados, the Occupy movement, Mexico’s Yo Soy 132, and of course the Arab Spring. We are understandably excited when we see people in the streets, and our pulse may even rise at the sight of masks, broken glass and flames, because for so long such images have represented the shards of the old world through which we can catch the perceptible glint of the new. Recent protests in Venezuela against the government of Chávez successor Nicolás Maduro might therefore seem to be simply the latest act in an upsurge of world-historic proportions.

Not so fast.

Despite hashtags like #SOSVenezuela and #PrayForVenezuela and retweets from @Cher and @Madonna, these protests have far more to do with returning economic and political elites to power than with their downfall.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 6:20 utc | 81

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina Feb 21
#PussyRiot trolled at Vnukovo airport w/ GIANT CHICKENS in ref. to the infamous "performance." http://goo.gl/nzV80w pic.twitter.com/kxf69umey8

Nina Byzantina may be useful twitter source of stuff on Ukraine

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 6:22 utc | 82

By calling Tymoshenko a "jewess," Mr. Pragma shows he is a stupid anti-Semite. Probably planted here so the neoliberal powers that be can dismiss the credibility of the excellent moonofalabama.org website.

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 23 2014 6:28 utc | 83

Gay U.S. figure skater Johnny Weir praises #Russia, #Sochi2014 | Джонни Вейр поддержал #Сочи2014. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/johnny-weir-discusses-his-time-russia#sthash.BIGNIott.uxfs … RT @RussianTruth1 #hadagaytime

in other words..gays had no problems....the US propaganda war on russia: Russia 1 US 0

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 6:37 utc | 84

Galloway has an excellent segment on Venezuela on latest Sputnik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lrjBMROH4Y

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 23 2014 6:52 utc | 85

worse than the jihadis?
Circuses of sadism: #Maidan rioters in #Ukraine remove the eyes of a (living!) police officer on stage. Graphic video http://goo.gl/4sFJ1G

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 6:53 utc | 86

Sure, senkaku islands are just rocks. But they'd nevertheless change the exlusive economic zone of China.
And they are good enough a reason to provoke japan into a war.

As for Chinas "mainly soft power" don't be fooled. Chinas mil. power is more than strong enough to control the whole region. It's not for fun that japan openly relies on and asks for zusa support. Another point is that China having DF-21 on/around senkaku, all major zusa bases in japan suddenly wake up in an easily enforceable denial zone.

Furthermore, what then is zusas power?

Let's be realistic. zusa has not fought against an enemy coming close to even a power like Germany or zuk, not to even talk a heavy weight like Russia. And zusa hasn't won a war other than against countries even danmark could conquer (like Panama or Grenada). Fact is that zusa got out pretty lousy in almost all wars.

And that was in better times when their soldiers were better and their weapons were really superior, not only in PR.
That's in fact one major reason I chose "MrPragma" as screen name; I analyse and compare military forces along multiple criteria, incl. historical data and weapon systems. I don't care about PR and I hand out positive marks for other (than Russia) militaries or weapon systems, too (like on of those gays the frech Rafale jet).
But turn it as you want, looking at facts and data, zusa is like a 70 year old movie diva that still thinks everyone wants sex with her when the truth is that people are friendly for politeness.

There are reasons that made zusa come out so lousy from Afghanistan, a poor and fractioned country, albeit with difficult terrain and well experienced fighters (the latter being the major reason for zusa losing). As I said before, zusa will fail in any real war against any major opponent alone for the fact that they trust in technology and widely ignore the real core of any army: the soldiers, no matter whether general or private. And even their weapons systems are aged and/or inferior. Do I need to address the - for zusa immensely vital - question of fighter jets once more? I don't think so, I think that when even zamericans are desperate and disappointed by the F-35 quagmire, the situation is clear enough.

Again: zusa had all their weapons at their disposal and as many soldiers as they could and wanted to send over in Afghanistan. Yet they lost - against "goat-herders" with outdated and too few weapons. Because those "goat-herders" were vastly superior in pretty all relevant aspects for soldiers.
One exception is to be conceeded: zusa succeeded in those countries to create immense first strike destruction (bombing, cruise missiles). But then it must be noted that those countries had basically no air defense and what little they had was outdated and relatively easy to neutralize. I think everyone here agrees that the situation in a war with Russia would be quite different.

So, again, all the PR and "zusa is a superpower" faith is nice and fine but let's not completely ignore the facts that show a very different picture - and the one that counts.

Or look at the navy. does anyone here think, zusa pissed off when told to do so, because they are so peace-loving? No, they pissed off because they knew that a kirov or slava class ship with their jachonts can sink a whole zusa carrier group without the zusa capable of doing much more than cursing or praying.
And don't forget: zusas position vitally depends on being considered the invincible super-power/keeping the fairy tale alive. Russia sinking a major zusa ship creates way more damage than a lost ship - it would destroy zusa superpowers status once and for all and consequently most of those "friends" that have been blackmailed into being "friends" and "allies" of zusa would fall off. In other words: A single sunken major ship would also sink zusas status irrevocably and would have a more devastating effect than a nuclear bomb on houston, texas.

The Russians made one incredibly important decision decades ago and have kept with it since and it was a brilliant decision: They would very much concentrate on missiles; ballistic missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-air missiles, whatever missiles. One could write essays about that and there is so much and so much intelligence and prudent vision behind it. And it played out very well; zusa has pretty much nothing to put against Russias missiles - and they wont because Russia is too much ahead by now.

You'll see either zusa caving in or zusa destroyed. And rather soon.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 23 2014 7:02 utc | 87

More on Remembering Giap's news.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/protest-against-new-airport-france-turns-violent-n36306

Violence erupted when about 20,000 people demonstrated against an airport project near the city of Nantes on Saturday, leaving six riot police officers injured.

The protest on Saturday in Nantes, homeland of French Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault, involved around 20,000, according to police, and was the first since local authorities gave the project a green light.

The protesters, including farmers, locals and green politicians, argue the new airport will damage the environment and is a waste of public money during an economic crisis.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 23 2014 7:11 utc | 88

Slothrop is correct. The discussion at the Moon of Alabama has changed over the years. bevin’s posts document this. The Iraq Invasion was crazy but that was just the starting point of the neo-liberal agenda that has led to a regional Sunni Shiite Jihad stretching from Beirut to Karachi, the initiation of a Ukraine Civil War on the doorstep of Russia, and an epidemic of Western joblessness.

I wish I could written the following but it expresses perfectly today’s world: “The policies adopted by the Americans and Europeans involve the worst of all possible worlds; a patent lack of concern with the physical suffering they inflict; combined with a complete absence of cold Machiavellian calculation about the likely consequences”

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/02/obamaite-r2pers-and-the-bushmen-by-confused-ponderer.html#comments

Posted by: VietnamVet | Feb 23 2014 7:53 utc | 89

Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 56m
Protesters in #Ukraine = "opposition." Protesters in #Nantes = "pillaging anarchists" (as per MSM like ABC) (video http://goo.gl/WuHcKU )

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 8:02 utc | 90

To: laurynas@delfi.lt
Subject: It's time to act
From: "Vitali Klitschko"
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:43:28 +0100 (CET)


Laurynas,

I think we've paved the way for more radical escalation of the situation. Isn't it time to proceed with more decisive actions?

I also want you to consider the possibility of increasing funding to pay for the services of our supporters.


Sincerely,
Vitali


***

To: laurynas@delfi.lt
Subject: From Kiev
From: "Vitali Klitschko"
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:05:12 +0100 (CET)


Laurynas,

I am very grateful to the President and all Lithuanian friends for such strong support. I will do everything possible to meet the expectations of my European partners.

Your colleague has arrived and started working with my team. He's a real pro and I think his services may be required even after the country is destabilized.

I've also met your people from the Embassy. The information about Yanukovych's plans they handed me is very important for our common cause. I would like to receive this kind of information on a permanent basis.


Sincerely yours,
Vitali


***

To: laurynas@delfi.lt
From: "Vitali Klitschko"
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 15:48:32 +0100 (CET)


Laurynas,

Following up upon our telephone conversation I think it would be useful to schedule a visit of some high-ranking officials from the EU. Maidan is in need of constant moral support. It would be appropriate to invite someone from Berlin. I have some top-ranking friends there but for some reason they hesitate.

Our American friends promised to pay a visit in the coming days, we may even see Nuland or someone from the Congress.

Another concern I want to raise is that Yanukovych keeps a low profile. It looks very suspicious. What's he up to? We would really appreciate some more information on this issue.


Sincerely yours,
Vitali


***

To: laurynas@delfi.lt
Subject: Thanks from Kiev
From: "Vitali Klitschko"
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 13:18:41 +0100 (CET)


Dear Mr. Jonavicius,

I am writing to thank you for your assistance. The meeting with Mrs. Grauziniene was very productive. We exchanged views on current events and discussed our plans for the future. Mrs. Grauziniene made some interesting proposals concerning my future. I need to give it some thought but in general I am willing to accept your terms.

Special thanks to all Lithuanian friends for financial assistance. Today my assistant visited your embassy where he met the Counselor. They discussed financial issues and plans for future cooperation. My assistant also provided Valentina with the details of my bank account in Germany.

I look forward to a successful working relationship in the future.


Regards,
Vitali

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 23 2014 8:10 utc | 91

russians do it 1 2 3 in mens ski xross country and make once again the doomsaying Sochi haters look miserable

Sochi 2014 ‏@Sochi2014 4m
Olympic classic: 50km Mass Start - the podium is all Russian #crosscountry #Sochi2014 Unbelievable!

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 8:59 utc | 92

Why this hate on Yanukovich here now? He was elected after all.

The love for tymoshenko in western media/politicians today is awful! Such useful idiots!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 23 2014 8:59 utc | 93

Right Sector attacks Russian Orthodox Monastery
"01:56 GMT: Armed protesters surrounded the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra on Saturday, also known as the Kiev Monastery of the Caves, a historic Orthodox Christian monastery under ecclesiastic leadership from the Moscow Patriarchate, Ruptly news agency reports.

Around 70 armed militants reportedly surrounded the church establishing patrols that made sure no one enters the premises. The militants demanded that the church be under direct control of the Kiev Patriarchate.

Together with the Saint Sophia Cathedral, the cave monastery which was founded in 1051 is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site and is the center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity. " -RT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKNa7YMLD5s

Posted by: brian | Feb 23 2014 9:09 utc | 94

Maximos (Jeff Martin) reappears, and writes with very good understanding of the big picture in the comment section here (italics removed):

...Ukraine is a manifestation of the broader geopolitical struggle – entirely unnecessary and onanistic – between the ‘West’ and Russia; between, that is, a West dedicated to a certain model of international order, encompassing transnational political institutions, neoliberal economic structures, and certain foreign policy postures, and a Russia which desires no part of any of these three systems. The incorporation of the Ukraine into the EU politico-economic space ... is part of the drang nach osten of the post-Cold War Western project; that project has received various expressions, from the pseudo-Hegelian nonsense of Fukuyama, to the ‘dismember Russia and feast on the carcass’ strategy of Brzezinski ... Russia just will respond adversely to continued attempts, on the parts of the US, the EU, and NATO, to encroach upon the post-Soviet space. Western policymakers have demonstrated by their actions, and articulated often enough, that their objective is to undertake something that to Russia, will be regarded as encirclement. This perception is reinforced by the Russian memory of the Nineties, when Western multinationals were all too eager to abet the primitive accumulation of the Russian patrimony, and to facilitate the rise of the oligarchs, provided they got their share of the flesh. The principal difference between the oligarchs of the Nineties and the siloviki of the present is that the corruptions of the latter are structured in such as way as to benefit the Russian state, and to prevent much of the nation’s wealth from vanishing into Western accounts.

Posted by: fairleft | Feb 23 2014 9:10 utc | 95

Right Sector attacks Russian Orthodox Monastery "01:56 GMT: Armed protesters surrounded the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra on Saturday, also known as the Kiev Monastery of the Caves, a historic Orthodox Christian monastery under ecclesiastic leadership from the Moscow Patriarchate, Ruptly news agency reports.

This anarchy, the dreadful destruction of Syria, soon Iran, Iran are all to do with control of the desert religions. The new Khazar empire requires subservient religious organisation, the only 2 branches of the desert religions not under Khazar control are the Shia's and Russian Orthodox. The USA or Europe has no say in what there are required to do, they just get some crumbs of the war spoils.

Posted by: hans | Feb 23 2014 9:49 utc | 96

Russia asks Ukraine to seek bailiut from IMF: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-ukraine-seek-bailout-loan-imf-082309440--finance.html#1hlg0q3

lol..The situation is beyond clusterfuck...We all know what IMF bailouts,reform etc etc etc come with. The Ukrainians are proper f*cked!!!

The West will now have to find REAL MONEY to sort out the mess..Will Germans,French etc be happy that their monies go to bailout Ukraine?

Posted by: Zico | Feb 23 2014 10:02 utc | 97

Ozawa@78

Germany is in the Ukraine. Japan is going to go to North Korea!?

The old Axis is back together again, with the USA as pivot this time. This snowball is rolling down the hill. I'm afraid that - one way or another - it's going to go nuclear.

Posted by: john francis lee | Feb 23 2014 10:04 utc | 98

93) Yep. "The West" has spent decades to corrupt Ukrainian industrial elites (this here is "pro-Russian" Yanukovich's backer with address Hyde Park 1), just for US/EU to blackmail them with sanctions, so that they enter an EU association agreement contrary to their business interests.

:-))

These democracy promoters are now faced with a Fascist fighting force, camping on the "democratic Maidan" being able to dictate their program to the politicians in parliament. It is too late to unfund them as in Kyiv they can extort their income if necessary.

Whilst the regions presumably stop to transfer taxes and rely on the cross border economy and refuge with Russia, Poland, Hungary ... and on their own security forces.

What exactly does the IMF want to fund? How does the EU suggest to integrate any of this?
Their only hope is that the kleptocracy needs the unity of Ukraine for their business interest and will find a way. With a huge financial crisis that is bound to encourage extremism I am not so sure.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 10:13 utc | 99

95) They won't bail out Ukraine. They do not have an address to send the money to.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 23 2014 10:26 utc | 100

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