Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 06, 2014

"To Respect The Independence And Sovereignty Of Ukraine"

Ukraine. Memorandum on Security Assurances

Budapest, 5 December 1994

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,

Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,

Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.

Confirm the following:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.


So here is the U.S. showing its legal commitment to respect the independence and sovereignty of Ukraine  by moving its puppets across the chess board:

In a conversation leaked online and posted to YouTube on Feb. 6, voices closely resembling those of U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt and U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland discuss loosely the roles of Ukrainian opposition leaders and the United Nations, and frustration over inaction and indecision by the European Union in solving Ukraine’s political crisis.
The voice allegedly of Nuland adds that Klitschko should not be given a role in government.

“I don’t think it’s necessary, I don’t think it’s a good idea,” she says.

“Yeah… I guess… in terms of him not going into the government, just let him sort of stay out and do his political homework and stuff,” Pyatt says.
Before the call ends, Nuland tells Pyatt she has “one more wrinkle” for him.

Commenting on European pressure put on Yanukovych – or lack thereof – she explains that she has spoken to the United Nations and has gotten an official there who said that Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, agreed to send someone to Ukraine to “help glue this thing and to have the UN glue it.”

She adds: “And you know, fuck the EU.”

“Exactly,” Pyatt replies. “And I think we got to do something to make it stick together, because you can be sure that if it does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to torpedo it. Let me work on Klitschko, and I think we should get a Western personality to come out here (to Ukraine) and midwife this thing,’’ he adds.

Victoria Nuland is the Assistant Secretary of State for Europe. Brussels will just love that call.

Thanks whomever for putin that call on YouTube.

Posted by b on February 6, 2014 at 16:28 UTC | Permalink


Loose lips (a symptom of Schadenfreude)?
LOL. Best post ever, b.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 6 2014 16:43 utc | 1

Yeah, that quote is going to be a "complicated electron". What a bunch of effing maroons.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 6 2014 16:50 utc | 2

Nuland has this psychopath voice.

Russia/Ukraine needs to expose this clip all over the world!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 6 2014 16:52 utc | 3

Sochi have same laws regarding homosexuals as some US states have.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 6 2014 17:21 utc | 4

fascinating! thanks b. everyone knows this shit happens, but having some material proof of it is unusual. how long before the youtube video gets taken down?

Posted by: james | Feb 6 2014 17:48 utc | 5

Even if the YouTube video was to vanish, the Kyiv Post article will remain. This is a really hot item. I suppose the NYT will find some way of discrediting it, or using the silver tongues of their innumerable Scribes & Pharisees, they will somehow spin it into triviality.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 6 2014 17:51 utc | 6

Very funny video
The words “a fistful of dollars” come to mind (the film, that is, as well as whats going on in Ukraine)

Kurosawa he also very funny
Because he sued the producers of above film(“a fistful of dollars” (1964), for copyright infringement (it was based on Kurosawas film Yojimbo (1961))
The case settled out of court , in Kurosawas favor.

Back to real world
In case of Ukraine, now who is going to end up suing whom?

Posted by: chris m | Feb 6 2014 18:23 utc | 7

The U.S. confirmed that the call is real:

The White House is blaming Moscow for a leaked phone call in which a top U.S. official can be heard saying 'f_ the EU.”

In the call, which was anonymously posted on You Tube, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt lay out their desired outcome for the crisis in Ukraine and accuse the European Union of not doing enough. White House spokesman Jay Carney said Thursday that the Russians tweeted out a link to the leaked recording, suggesting they were involved.

“I think it says something about Russia’s role,” Carney said.

Posted by: b | Feb 6 2014 18:37 utc | 8

Interesting B,

even though this has now been CONFIRMED, I've yet to see the AP, Reuters or any of the major western newswires cover the story as the hot potato it should be.

I guess they're too bust fabricating (yes, SOME of those tweeted pictures we've seen from them ARE being staged for maximum propaganda effect) stories about the "failure" of the Sochi Games based on the bitching of a few western journalists.

Posted by: RC | Feb 6 2014 18:48 utc | 9

typical of obama to blame russia for their "fuck eu" clip.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 6 2014 18:59 utc | 10

“I think it says something about Russia’s role,” Carney said.

Well, Carney sure got that right.
If Putin wants to make Yankees look like deluded narcissistic fools, then Russia's role is to relax, and wait for some help from a loud-mouthed Full Spectrum Dumb-inence Yankee ... or two ... or more...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 6 2014 19:03 utc | 11

Maybe some more choice photos of Ms. Nuland distributing bread to the gentle people on the barricades would help.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 6 2014 19:21 utc | 12

Oh this is too good.

The US ambassador to Ukraine and the Assistant Secretary of State taped colluding for the color revolution and talking about getting "a Western personality to come out here (to Ukraine) and midwife this thing,".

Nuland saying "Fuck the EU" and plotting to sideline Ukrainian thug Klitschko who is being groomed by Germany. Like European relations weren't already going down the drain with the NSA.

Then Obama's Press Secretary Jay Carney admitting its all true and blaming Russia for leaking it with the line "I think it says something about Russia’s role". Wrong Jay, it says something about the American role.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Feb 6 2014 19:27 utc | 13

Very interesting comments about this leak at The Saker. Seems to be an Israeli-inspired leak, which puts an entirely different complexion on it (and also explains why it is now being widely reported in the MSM instead of being buried).

Interesting to note too in passing that even in these circumstances Nuland favors "Yats" for some tribal reason.


Posted by: G | Feb 6 2014 19:49 utc | 14

Just a reminder that Ms Nuland, née Nudelman (Bronx, NY) is married to one of the Neocon Kagans. Her remark is no surprise at all. The surprise is her appointment to such a high position in a Demcratic administration. My guess is that the only foreign language she knows is Hebrew.

Posted by: Knut | Feb 6 2014 20:05 utc | 15

@13 Darn it. We had George Clooney all set to go.

Posted by: dh | Feb 6 2014 20:09 utc | 16

Oh man, I'm rofl-ing. Just imagine Klichko listening to that... *loool*. I wonder what his next public appearances will look like, respectively whether he'll be allowed to do any more at all. :-). Also, this is a nice play on all the NSA talk. Look, we can do things, too. This is just great. Hope it will get the attendance it deserves.

Posted by: peter radiator | Feb 6 2014 20:17 utc | 17

@ Peter

Also, this is a nice play on all the NSA talk.

Indeed, how dare those Russians monitor the private conversations of our diplomats during a summit... only the NSA is allowed to do that.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Feb 6 2014 20:30 utc | 18

Next time, consultations on the future govt for the ukraine better take place in the US or european ally territory ;-). Or try some codewords... "Klichko probably wouldn't be elected by the freedom-loving ukrainian people, geoffrey, don't you think?"

Posted by: peter radiator | Feb 6 2014 20:39 utc | 19

Thanks so much, b!

I mean, it was clear anyway to everyone with a brain and a spine. But now there is proof - and even confirmed by zusa * LOL

But there is more to it, way more.

For a starter this makes it clear and evident - once more - that moronic thugs (zusa) just don't stand the slightest chance against a bright and professional man like Putin and his government.

But also very interesting, in particular while there is a fat and ever growing nsa scandal, that Russia obviously a) has excellent presence in Ukraine and b) that Russias intelligence capabilities are excellent and sure, enough on par with zusas.
After all, you bet that communications between a zusa ambassador and a high ranking state department official are very well protected.

Another example of zusa "supremacy" and "superiority" (possibly impressing microbes but not homo sapiens).

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 6 2014 20:39 utc | 20

chris(m) #7

Oddly enough large portions of the film in question - Yojimbo - were taken from certain novels by D. Hammett and J.M. Cain. It's not as though Kurosawa made any secret of it.

Don't flame me for being off topic - I couldn't resist!

Posted by: rackstraw | Feb 6 2014 20:47 utc | 21

typical Russian humour

"We've got to do something to make it stick together, because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it,"

Posted by: somebody | Feb 6 2014 20:57 utc | 22


Didn't you have a link up at some point stating that this had been confirmed????

What happened to it?

Posted by: RC | Feb 6 2014 21:09 utc | 23

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki in the daily press briefing:
“Certainly we think this is a new low in Russian tradecraft in terms of publicizing and posting this,I don’t have any other independent details about the origin of the YouTube video.”
Psaki said that a senior Russian official had been the first to tweet about the call, and that “this is something they’ve been actively promoting, posting about, tweeting about.” (the official that tweeted the call was an aide to Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin,AP reported).
Psaki refused to confirm the conversation, saying “I am not going to confirm private diplomatic conversations.”
But without confirming the tape, Psaki said that Nuland had apologized to her EU counterparts for
“the content of the reports.”

The candid conversation heard on the call “shouldn’t be a surprise,”:
“Of course these things are being discussed. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s up to the people of Ukraine to determine what the path forward is.We have opinions about a range of issues, that shouldn’t be a surprise.”

Posted by: Some1 | Feb 6 2014 21:10 utc | 24

Posted by: Some1 | Feb 6 2014 21:11 utc | 25

I'm sure some Congress Critter will get on TV or in front of some microphone and say this proves that Edward Snowden was working for the Russians when he was with the NSA and is still working for them.

What are the odds?

Posted by: jawbone | Feb 6 2014 21:43 utc | 29

The similarity to how the US government is treating Syria must be clear to anyone following international news.

Same playbook, similar wording -- and, most of all, the arrogance of thinking an elected government of some nation which isn't kowtowing to The Hegemon can just be forced out and the US choice of leadership put in. Of course, it has worked for the US rather often, mostly to the detriment of the nation involved and often leading to bitter outcomes for the non-One Percenters of that nation. Similar to what happens in the US and now the EU....

Fuck the EU? Nuland and Pyatt reflect the US government approach of Fuck the people, the stupid little voters. Just like they do here at home.

Posted by: jawbone | Feb 6 2014 21:52 utc | 30

The candid conversation heard on the call “shouldn’t be a surprise,”:
“Of course these things are being discussed. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s up to the people of Ukraine to determine what the path forward is.We have opinions about a range of issues, that shouldn’t be a surprise.”

Posted by: Some1 | Feb 6, 2014 4:10:00 PM | 24

' it’s up to the people of Ukraine to determine what the path forward is'

what a novel idea...and quite UNamerican

Posted by: brian | Feb 6 2014 22:24 utc | 31

More Russian humour - everything you can do I can do better ...

Update from Kyiv Post in German - discussion by diplomats on the US Americans making the rounds and complaining about the EU being too soft on Ukraine

Posted by: somebody | Feb 6 2014 22:30 utc | 32

Great work b. And thanks too, Victoria (May I call you Vicky?) and Geoff Pyatt.
Presumably now the Ukrainian government informs the US that these two are persona non grata and asks them to take Ban Ki Moon with them when they leave.
Now I hope, most sincerely, that the conspiracy mongers don't put up a smokescreen of weird conjecture to obscure what is perfectly clear: these arrogant imperialists sport with the lives of millions with feline cruelty.
Happily they are as crass and idiotic as they sound: all their plans depend on employing violent gangsters. Them and a tame intelligentsia, including nine tenths of the journalistic profession, who market the criminality as "democracy.

On a not unrelated note: Marcy at emptywheel posts to the effect that she has been retained as a consultant by the group now employing Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. Her blog will continue but she will help analyse for the new enterprise.
Some will read this as another "sell out." I see it as a hopeful sign that an opposition media, which will obviously be potentially very profitable, is being established.
And, christ, do we need one.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 6 2014 22:38 utc | 33

looks like its going to be shoot-out
between Vitaly Klitschko and Arseniy Yatsenyuk
Klitschko wins

Posted by: chris m | Feb 6 2014 23:19 utc | 34

Thanks for posting this Bernard. Listening to the full tape is rather interesting. The context is that Nuland considers the EU an inadequate partner in US policy for Ukraine. So she's sidelining them and has arranged thru Jeffrey Feltman, the US guy at the UN (yes, that Jeffrey Feltman, ex-amb to Lebanon), to arrange with Ban Ki-moon to send an envoy, Robert Serry (Dutch, mideast peace process guy at UN now, used to be Netherlands amb to Ukraine). Serry was in Kiev meeting w/ Yanukovich on Jan 29. So the point the Russians are trying to make, assuming they did get & release the tape, was that Nuland isn't just saying Fuck the EU. She's doing it. Welcome to speculate what the UN can do that the EU can't/won't. SC Sanctions? Seems impossible. Await your illumination.

Posted by: China Hand | Feb 6 2014 23:20 utc | 35

Victorias new line of secret lingerie unveiled!

Posted by: brian | Feb 6 2014 23:40 utc | 36

Absolute saturation coverage on the MSM now. Who are the only operatives with the absolute power to ensure this? (See comment 14 above). Don't be naive people.

Posted by: G | Feb 7 2014 0:41 utc | 37

Victoria is now trending on Twitter

also this in:
Memo from EU to Victoria Nuland US State dept: 'Thanks Viki, but nooone here wants to fuck you..thanks for the offer!'

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2014 0:48 utc | 38

@ 38.
Speak for yourself.
One could do what some wag said Thomas L Freedman does before fulfilling his conjugal duties - tape a picture of one's own face over hers. I reckon Vicky would be a lively little filly. But you'd need to keep your wits about you and beat a hasty retreat before the afterglow subsided in case her preying mantis gene kicked in, and she ate you alive.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 7 2014 1:47 utc | 39

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 6, 2014 1:59:21 PM | 10

And yes to those that pointed out Snowden is the problem, just more hype in the Amerikan so-called liberal controlled press.

Posted by: jo6pac | Feb 7 2014 2:34 utc | 40

Very interesting comments about this leak at The Saker. Seems to be an Israeli-inspired leak, which puts an entirely different complexion on it (and also explains why it is now being widely reported in the MSM instead of being buried). Interesting to note too in passing that even in these circumstances Nuland favors "Yats" for some tribal reason. G. Posted by: G | Feb 6, 2014 2:49:29 PM | 14
Excuse me? Or rather, laying false politeness aside, what the hell are you talking about, "seems to be an Israeli-inspired leak"? What exactly "seems" to be "Israeli-inspired" about it, and to whom? Rather reluctantly, because I do not like being directed to blogs or to web sites of any sort without any link being given, but I went to find out. Let us see what gems are offered to distract from the absolutely obvious explanation, namely that Russian SIGINT intercepted this and 'leaked' it. Well, having looked, I can report that there is absolutely no 'there' there that even suggests that this was an "Israeli-inspired leak" except an exchange between a commentator and Mr Saker himself about a site called which happened to have posted the Nuland-Pyatt YouTube video 17 hours earlier. The first commentator hesitated to cite this because it is a site characterised by "*STRONG* support for Israel" and therefore presumably not the sort of thing that Mr Vineyard Saker can be expected to approve of; Mr Saker then jumps to the totally unwarranted conclusion that the rapid appearance of the video on a "pro-Israel" site indicates some significant support from Israel for the leak. All this is bilge, and subjecting it to successive Chinese whispers does not improve it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 7 2014 2:59 utc | 41

It was amusing seeing Obama flack J. Carney telling the world "the story here is the Russians" and seeing the Western MSM all follow suit; in lock step of course. Nothing whatever was made of Nuland's "frank remarks" about the EU, on account of she made a non-apology "apology".

However, suddenly seeing that this woman who was supposed to be on the same team with you, is secretly giving you the finger behind your back, and has been laughing at you all along, is bound to have a profound impact.

Will Obama make her walk the plank? Only if he can't lie his way out of it!

After all it was just 2 high level American officials caught on tape conspiring against the freedom, independence, and constitutional order of the Ukraine, and crudely disrespecting the European Union at the same time. Happens all the time, see?

As to the involvement of the Russians. If they have this one conversation, they have many more. They wouldn't reveal valuable intelligence methods unless they had some some greater strategic or political advantage to be obtained.

Getting closer to the EU while widening the wedge between EU and the US. Inhibiting the actual conspirators in the Ukraine, who are unsure how much is known (if they lived in the US they would already be doing a perp walk on the steps of the federal court house). Buying time to finish the Sochi Olympics and also to finish planning the counter-stroke against the rebellion. Drawing a line for the anti government forces in the Ukraine - something like "we respect the right to peaceful protest but not to violent foreign inspired 'insurgencies'". And showing the US "We can fight by your rules, too!" Draw your own scenaria.

Posted by: rackstraw | Feb 7 2014 3:36 utc | 42

the US needs its own Victoria Nuland. somebody come here and feed cookies to the uprising. if the EU won't help us win health care and living wages and equality of race/etc and stop police repression, then fuck the EU.
honestly, what a messed-up country we Americans live in. could they just stop getting us into wars? really we are to blame for not overthrowing them all. what a mess.

was funny to hear the news on BBC, but then hours later National Public Radio did its daily news hours... no mention of the story!! hilarious.

Posted by: anon | Feb 7 2014 4:44 utc | 43

I can't get over the fact that we're laughing about the US gov't engineering the gov't of another country, and LOOK at what we HAVE here! we can't even maintain a wealthy healthy country without trashing it into oblivion and sucking the life out of it.
it just makes me sick.
I hope Nuland never comes home from the Ukraine. I wish they all stayed in Iraq and Syria and Libya. we do not want them.

Posted by: anon | Feb 7 2014 4:52 utc | 44

35) A cold war with Russia is not in the EU's (in this case mainly Germany's) business interest. It is as simple as that.
So the Americans hit a EU stonewall padded with politeness and gestures, being boneheaded the Americans could not retreat and let go, but try a different solution by their guys in the UN.
Of course, the UN cannot do anything.
By the way, Ukraine seems to have quite an US American system. The same oligarchs are sponsoring the opposition and the government.
The US want a free East European resource market with corrupt elites. They got the corrupt elites but do not have the money to bribe.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 7 2014 7:22 utc | 45

@K:It's not a Russian but an American one...with *STRONG* support for Israel.

Wow!! Better and better. How fascinating indeed. Consider that a lot of Israelis are fully aware of the rabid Judeophobia of the Ukie nationalists and I bet you that a lot of them are siding with Moscow on this one (not the government, of course, but individual Israelis). Also, considering the numerous ties between Russia and Israel, the GRU/SVR/FSB could have easily used some informal "business" connection between the two countries to leak the recording. Whatever may be the case, I am very grateful for this true gem.

As I have said many many many times over, the best part of this blog is the first-rate commentators who contribute such fantastic stuff like you did.

Thanks a lot!! Cheers,

The Saker

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2014 7:48 utc | 46

It must really suck being a state department spokes person..This lady is trying hard to justify the unjustifiable by throwing all kinds of catch words and phrases they're taught in US diplomacy schools.

And what's this deal with UN Ban Ki Moon coming in the grace the occasion should the Ukrainian boxer win his revolution????

Isn't it time Ban Kim Fool is replaced as head of the UN???? The guy's a lackey, no question!!!

Take a look at this clip:

Posted by: Zico | Feb 7 2014 8:06 utc | 47

revealing: who does ungrateful Pussy Riot (unlike Snowden , free to wander and now being feted in the US empire) want in power?

Khordorkovsky is one of the predatory oligarchs weho work with US Halliburton to take control of russian oil....what would Amy Goodman of Democracynow, whop supportes Pussy Riot say?

'The freed members of the Pussy Riot punk band said Friday they still wanted Russian President Vladimir Putin out of power and would like freed ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky to replace him'

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2014 8:19 utc | 48

@Rowan Berkeley # 41

So, why has this gone mainstream on MSM, very quickly too, including the BBC etc that absolutely choose to ignore any US intervention angle and more so anything coming from Putin's Russia ? Just who do you think controls 90% of the Western Press and might benefit from switching US military interests from the Ukraine back to the ME where their true interests lie?

Posted by: G | Feb 7 2014 9:10 utc | 49

brian #46, why did you reproduce that (arguably nonsensical) comment from this vineyard bird, without comment? Are you saying it makes sense to you? Because it is just nonsense, AFAICS. The fact that someone on a supposedly "pro-Israel" blog reproduces a widely circulated news story proves nothing whatsoever, and I wonder whether the vineyard bird simply assumed the "pro-Israel" blog was hyping the story, without even looking at it (it isn't particularly; it's just reproducing it without comment, here). G #49, who originally posted the link, whoever you are, obviously I would expect you to generate your own bluster about Jewish control of the media, even though the fact remains that this supposed 'gem' is a total non-issue. I've been doing this for ten years now, and I have learned to dismiss ungrounded claims of Jewish/ Israeli/ Mossad involvement in anything and everything. But on my own blog, when I want to talk about Jewish control of the media, I have no compunction about doing so. I just don't use it as a red herring, to confuse people's comprehension of things it has no demonstrable connection with. By the way, I've included links to both because neither of you bothered to do so.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 7 2014 10:06 utc | 50

“There is nothing like a jolly good disaster (and plenty of 'glue' and 'stuff') to get people to start doing something,” says Bonnie Prince Charlie.

“People think there’s a rigid class system here, but dukes have even been known to marry chorus girls. Some have even married Americans,(so fuck the EU),” says Prince Philip.

"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall, (we should get a Western personality to come out here)," says Che Guevara

These WADC-NOVA critters are (-)$18 TRILLION in permanent Federal deficit debt N.U.T.S.
Remember, there is no problem that can't be solved, as long as we throw another TRILLION of our last life savings, that is never coming back again, at Mil.Gov.Sci.Edu.Pub's feet.

Go Blue Team!

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Feb 7 2014 10:22 utc | 51

In comparison with such momentous consequences, was the treaty not a scrap of paper?

Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg

Posted by: rtalcott | Feb 7 2014 11:08 utc | 52


Wonder if you recall HRH Hillary going off on Putin's re-selection for just one day, then she shut her yap pronto. After all, the former Soviets still monitored her five quid-pro-quo baaksheesh trips to Kabul, after HRH and Milliband grifted Karzai $5 BILLION, gouged out of US humanitarian aid, straight into his family-looted Bank of Kabul. Then after her Magical Mystery Tour five 'missions', her (-)$35 MILLION bleeding bankrupt and failed presidential campaign was magically bailed out by 'unnamed benefactors', and she was magically worth $50 MILLION, after only five years in government office. Milliband also got rich on that grift.
"85% of US aid is round-tripped right back to WADC-NOVA" -- our own US ambassador to OEF-A.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Feb 7 2014 11:32 utc | 53

The msm is 'hyping' the story because it's all over the blogosphere and they'd look pretty stupid if they just ignored it.

Also, listen carefully. Are they hyping it or are they doing damage control?

Posted by: Lysander | Feb 7 2014 11:58 utc | 54

@ Rowan # 50

Could you please stipulate and explain the credentials that make you such an expert, so much so that you can rubbish The Saker and others without stating either any proof or evidence of legitimacy ? Please don't just point me to your Web site but set it out, briefly, here. Thanks.

Posted by: G | Feb 7 2014 12:00 utc | 55

I've been reading the vineyard saker's blog since 2007 and I've learned an enormous amount 8from him and his other commenters. I don't think the israelis had anything to do with the intercept or leak.

Then again, if they think their US patron is growing weak, they might try to ingratiate themselves with someone else. Possible, but I don't think that's what's happening here. Sometimes the most obvious explanations are the right ones.

Posted by: Lysander | Feb 7 2014 12:16 utc | 56

So how did the Russians gain such international media prominence? Perhaps for the first time ever. Seen any favorable reports on the Winter Games for example?

Posted by: G | Feb 7 2014 12:22 utc | 57

Rowan, the first link to the video on Saker is in this location by Anonymous who writes that
It was posted by a Russian member on a military forum. The original source at the military forum is , not the one you link to. I think it's pointless to discuss now who is responsable for the leak, so far unless you would go with the SD logic that it was big bad Putin misbehaving and untill new facts emerge all one can do is guess. But, I must say, having folloowed the development from the original Saker coment, I was surprised how fast it spread on the msm with stress on the f word while the coments stress on said msm was here they go again subverting one more country.

Posted by: estouxim | Feb 7 2014 12:35 utc | 58

As a follow=up to Rowan at #50, just read before spouting more nonsense about your self=perceived bluster. I do suspect that you are a Hasbara mouthpiece,

Posted by: G | Feb 7 2014 12:43 utc | 59

Only Merkel has the courage to speak out against Nuland. I doubt we'll hear the same from Cameron/Hollande.
Having said that, I agree with G that even the EUrocrats know that the Ukraine problem has emerged solely as a lever by the US against both the EU and Russia. The EU, to get them to comply to the big Mideast plan of Kerry and allies, Russia, to put a bit of pressure on Asad.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 7 2014 13:42 utc | 60

off topic but:
why support edward snowden? well one reason is his critics:
take Edward Lucas

a sample of his cold wear thinking:
'They reveal how countries like Norway and Sweden spy on Russia. Why is it in the public interest to reveal how democracies spy on dictatorships?'

since when is Russia a 'dictatorship'? what does it mean to be a 'democracy' norway a 'democracy'(rule by the people)? is the US a democracy or a dictatorship?

'The Snowden affair is a story of secrecy and deception – but not on the side of the intelligence agencies.'

but thats just it: NSA is secretive and is Lucas himself. he reads like a coldewar spy who never came in out of the cold.

'They cloak their extreme and muddled beliefs in the language of privacy rights, civil liberties and digital freedoms. But where they part company with most of their fellow citizens is that they appear not to support the right of an elected, law-abiding government to keep and defend its secrets.'

since when has US ever been law abiding? Lucas with no evidence lines up 300 million americans ('fellow citizens') behind him....has he aske them what they think? if any disagree do they become targets for his patriotic wrath?

more from Lucas:

'Western protestations of concern for online freedom and privacy ring hollow. The reputation of the biggest Western internet and technology firms has taken a pounding for their supposed complicity in espionage. Their rivals in Russia and China and elsewhere are gleeful. The Snowdenistas seem oblivious to the idea that we in the West have enemies and competitors.

Instead, the great grievance of the Snowden camp is what they see as the arbitrary power of the NSA and GCHQ. Who gave these agencies the power to bug and snoop? The real answer to that is simple: the elected governments and leaders of those countries, the judges and lawmakers charged with supervising the intelligence services, and the directors of those agencies in the exercise of their lawful powers.'

'enemies and competitors' which is it..are russia and china (his main targets) enemies or competitors? is to be a competitor to be an enemy? what are australia canada, UK germany france? not competitors? friends, servants?

Lucas thinks electing a govt gives it the right to spy on the those who elect. 'lawful powers'....but who makes these laws....not the people(which is who should in a 'democracy') but 'governments' 'leaders' 'judges' 'lawmakers'...and who are these?..members of political parties, with agendas of their own, which they dont share with the electors.

'Far from denigrating American intelligence, we should applaud it. It helps catch terrorists, gangsters and spies. Moreover, its oversight and scrutiny is the toughest in the world'

Yet No american spy agency foresaw 9-11 attacks....or took action if they did to prevent it. They did not prevent 9-11. NSA is not in the business of catching gangsters...thats the role of the Police or FBI.

Lucas is his own worst enemy: he is lying deceitful, hypocritical, uberpatriotic/paranoid cold war warrior.

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2014 13:42 utc | 61

It just got even funnier.

Now, there is a new leak, this time it's a conversation between a high ranking eu diplomat (in ashtons team) and the eu ambassador in Ukraine.

She (Schmidt) is pissed and worried that the zamericans are painting the eu as soft on Ukraine. Another important point is that zusa, as usual, goes the bulldozer way while the eu prefers acting discretely. For one because this, so schmidt, is more effective. And, although she only hints at that, because those dirty operations would never ever be accepted by the european people; in particular the fact that eu supports both klitchko and the neo-nazis.
And yes, what the eu does and what the eu tells their citizens are very much different.

Another, not directly addressed, issue seems to be that zusa wants to keep klitchko outside of a new government while for the eu klitchko is the preferred candidate.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 7 2014 14:15 utc | 62

Mina, I don't think Angela Merkel is really 'speaking out' against Victoria Nuland, she's merely condemning Nuland's language while ignoring the content of her speech - that the US has the right to intervene in another state's affairs in such a blatant way. I suspect there is also a sub-text here. Of the Ukrainian opposition leaders, Klitscho is very much Germany's favoured candidate. Nuland's emphatic ruling him out of a government role in the US planned makeover points to competition between the US and Germany, erstwhile supposed allies, for influence in the new, madeover Ukraine.

Posted by: Fern | Feb 7 2014 14:15 utc | 63

US-a*slickning swedish fm blames russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 7 2014 14:52 utc | 64

US asslickning swedish FM blames russia


Posted by: Anonymous_test | Feb 7 2014 14:53 utc | 65


Its about syria, west cant accept russian role in there.
I would say this hate against russia is close to racism by western leaders.

Posted by: Anonymous_test | Feb 7 2014 15:28 utc | 66

usa via victoria nusland is now offering ukraine money if they will "reform" (read do things 'our way').. we've gone from bread to money.. maybe she can take another trip to ukraine and hand money instead of bread to her neo nazi friends?

Posted by: james | Feb 7 2014 17:10 utc | 67

Ha ha ha. Leaked conv. is all being spun by concentrating on the F*-EU insult leaving all the rest aside (after looking at many Google pages..)

What about this picture (Kiev Post, Friday at 5 pm) ?

Nuland stands with lap top computer showing leaked conv. between her and Pyatt, surrounded by Tiahnibok, “Yas” and “Klit”. Ha ha ha...if real!...

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 7 2014 17:12 utc | 68

More seriously (as compared to my previous post which I don’t see posted right now)..

I read somewhere or .. ? and thought for a long time now that Ukr. has a law that allows foreign Companies to repatriate ALL profits.

I haven’t read the law, or anything else about it, does anyone else know?

My short thinking was that this legislation protected Ukr. from color revolution (after the last recent one!), however obviously many others want a chunk of cake, or more, double iced, plus with candles if you please!

Ukr. has not only signed the NPT (almost right after independence, see b’s top post), but is a member of the WTO, IMF, etc.

It also has an agreement of cooperation with the EU since...1998.

Very low or nil tariffs etc. for trade; agreements of protection of investment with like 50 countries. Foreign direct investment is about for 80% from the EU, with 33% of the total FDI in ‘finance’... 50% of its imports are EU. from this link, but there are other sources, nos. ‘about right’

(this is a State site, not some fanciful Cos. fluff, and well worth a look. From 2011. )

Besides agriculture, and ‘other’, Ukr. is an industrial hinterland and a huge arms producer. It needs to sell its minerals, steel, chemicals, arms, machines, planes, nuke industry capabilities of a ‘support’ type.

Just one link:

(to read the full piece if no load, see title, and type that into Goog.)

Ukr. crashed recently (economically speaking, after a dire crash when it became independent) in 2008, as it is too exposed to international cos, banking, investment, risky borrowing and the like, the usual story. Heh! Goldman Sachs seems to be awol in this case.

Ukr. has received several ‘loans’ from the IMF...but the IMF balked when it raised minimum wage and pensions, and tried not to repay or put payment off to the future. > The refusal of the latest IMF proposition has a long history.

It recovered somewhat, or well, in 2011, according to official GDP-type stats.

To sum up, Ukr. is in an extremely bad, vulnerable, place.

(I have purposely left out energy matters, not that they aren’t important, other parts of the picture ..)

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 7 2014 17:57 utc | 69

Qu'ils mangent des cookies.

Posted by: lysias | Feb 7 2014 18:51 utc | 70

have fun!

Posted by: Some1 | Feb 7 2014 18:58 utc | 71

#58, #59: I've looked at your links, and they're just as inconsequential as before. If the rebellion in the Ukraine against the Yanukovich regime is masterminded by Jews (and there is very little evidence of this), then that has implications directly opposite to those of the leaks, which are designed to shore up the Yanukovich regime by revealing the moronic and totalitarian attitudes of the Yanks. The leakers are pro-Yanukovuch, and how is that supposed to advance Jewish power? What the hell do you think you are saying?

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 7 2014 19:06 utc | 72

Only Merkel has the courage to speak out against Nuland.
Posted by: Mina | Feb 7, 2014 8:42:18 AM | 60

Another leaked phone-call + this time German diplomats
Helga Schmid and Jan Tombinski(EU ambassador to Ukraine)

Helga is angry because the americans are going to say that the EU is too soft.She complains that the US is pushing too much and that this is not a competition,that the EU does have other tools than the US.And they shoud do what they have talked about earlier and do it clever and prudent.

Posted by: Some1 | Feb 7 2014 19:20 utc | 73

Germany earlier fostered the breakup of Yugoslavia by prematurely recognizing the independence of Croatia and Slovenia, both formerly parts of the Habsburg Empire. Now, she is meddling in the West Ukraine, which includes the formerly Austro-Hungarian provinces of Galicia and Bukovina.

Posted by: lysias | Feb 7 2014 20:02 utc | 74

Just a few points long after the blow out.
As much as the tin foil hat brigade want this to be an israeli leak because everything meaningful that happens is doubled triple reverse psychology ju -jitsu. Of course if people ever start believing that it was israel in any great number then the same twisted conspiracists will give the thing one more turn, on the grounds that if everybody is saying it was israel, why then it can't be true.
But the big question is why would israel leak the thing? Doing over Nuland is counter to zionist interest.

The zionists are part of the neo-liberal world domination project why would they sabotage it and one of their chief enablers to boot?

Anyone who thinks its because the Ukrainian thugs are Nazis is well wide of the mark. The zionists love nazis, after all where would Israel be today without the Nazis? Nowhere - that's where.
For the crooks who run the greater Jordan Valley colonisation and cultural sanitation project, Nazis make economic sense as well as having some great strategies for getting rid of sanitising undesirable cultures.
But most of all the existence of self confessed nazis in positions of power in Europe keeps the lie alive that judeophobia is ubiquitous giving the zionists the justification they need for their own genocide program against the indigenous people of the Jordan Valley.

One last thing - Obama won't sack Vicky - oblamblam couldn't sack her if he wanted too - and he doesn't want to - Say what you like about the creep he does have an innate ability to detect situations that could threaten his own progress to the top of the steaming turd heap.
Vicky could probably sack Oblamblam though - Mind you with the gig Oblamblam has sacking is usually more accurately called termination.

Let's not get this ass backwards. Victoria & Co are the onboard reps of Obama's backers. Her job is to make sure that Obama does as he's told foreign policy wise, the calls come through 'hubby' and Vicky passes on the messages about what micro policy is required to ensure that Europe does what is needed to keep the good old boys making money.

The one thing the gang forgot while they were running round expanding markets in the ME, and Africa, was to secure their position in Europe, a position which has sustained the creeps for 70 years as the chief source of lucre, Ms Nuland's job is to stop the rot, turn it all around.
I doubt she will be successful, the empire has already expanded beyond the point of manageability.
The same thing has happened in Asia and the pacific (the other long standing marketplace) where a heap of energy and effort is failing to prevent China's domination of that market. The TPP will fail, it had to been done and dusted in November '13 & wasn't. It has become too politically sensitive for governments to been seen to be agreeing to amerika (aka global capitalism's)insane anti-democratic terms. Eeventually something will be agreed but little of the over the top IP and corporate tribunal stuff will remain.

Amerika has nothing to offer, people around the world understand that it doesn't matter what el prez says, amerikan congress simply won't pass the legislation required for amerika to keep their end of the deal, the pols in the other countries know that signing up to a deal so obviously one-sided is the end of their careers.

There just aren't enough spins to keep all the plates up on the sticks, not while we can all see up the magicians sleeves. Hence Nuland's panic in Europe.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Feb 7 2014 20:51 utc | 75

"Thanks whomever for putin that call on YouTube."

Perhaps it was NSA showcasing their phone tapping capabilities!!! (lol)

Posted by: Rd. | Feb 7 2014 21:01 utc | 76

Not all the news is bad.
In Bosnia for example, there are real, old fashioned protests without a State department cookie in sight:
"...In Tuzla the trigger this week was the sudden collapse of four formerly state-run companies that employ thousands in the city. The companies were privatised, but the new owners sold the assets, sacked the staff and filed for bankruptcy.

"You have really hungry people who decided to do something," said Dunja Tadic, a Bosnian woman from Tuzla. "People here are not living lives, they are simply surviving. Maybe 15% of the population lives well, mostly those who are stealing and their relatives. They destroyed the so-called middle class. All in all I don't see how it can be any better here."

"In Sarajevo, the mood was little better.

"Everyone is here because everyone has a problem with this government," said a twentysomething male protester who did not want to be identified. "Young people don't have jobs. Older people don't have pensions. Everyone is fed up."

"In Zenica, another central Bosnia city, protesters set fire to part of the local government building.

"The prime minister, Nermin Niksic, has said he was keen to differentiate between workers affected by economic reversals and "hooligans who used this situation to create chaos", adding that police and prosecutors should take action against anyone damaging public property."

But the best news may be this:

"The protests were largely confined to the Croat-Muslim half of Bosnia but there was also a rally in Banja Luka, capital of the Serb half of the country. About 300 activists and citizens staged a peaceful march to call for unity among all Bosnia's ethnicities."

Posted by: bevin | Feb 7 2014 23:55 utc | 77

Mina: Have you read Thierry Meyssan on UK-France Lancaster secret treaty of 2010? If not, I strongly recommend you doing so.

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 8 2014 0:30 utc | 78

@brian #48: The newest news is that Pussy Riot just broke up: "
Pussy Riot members attack bandmates for appearing at Amnesty concert
Letter on Russian punk collective's blog says Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina 'are no longer Pussy Riot'

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 8 2014 0:39 utc | 79

More info on true nature of the "peaceful protesters" in Ukraine and their "oppresion":
Fake images in Ukraine, Maidan activists trained by NATO in 2006

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 8 2014 0:48 utc | 80

It's more about IMF's Structural Adjustment Programs which benefit multinational corporations and the Anglo-American establishment than about the EU in general as far the exploitation of people and resources of the Ukraine are considered. Read "Schock Doctrine" and "Economic Hitman" to learn more.

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 8 2014 1:44 utc | 81

This is a brilliant use by the Russians of a tactic long, long forgotten by US Apparatchiks - exposing the truth.

Just like the leaked calls following the recent Venezuelan elections in which we heard US toadie Radonski-Capriles discussing the fact that he knew he had lost fair and square while publicly proclaiming fraud.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 8 2014 1:46 utc | 82

#64 Carl Bildt has been a well known Bilderberger, NWO henchman and a CIA man for years, on of the most evil members of that global cabal. Maybe even has to do with the assassination of Olof Palme.

Posted by: ProPeace | Feb 8 2014 2:00 utc | 83

"Anyone who thinks its because the Ukrainian thugs are Nazis is well wide of the mark."

I think that it should be clear that the worry is not that these are going to be "Nazis" in some cartoon sense, goose stepping and driving Panzers into Kiev. The problem I think is with the racism, nationalism, and right-wing authoritarianism. And I think this is a very, very real threat.

There was a gentleman on a recent episode of RT's CrossTalk, Mark Almond, who put it very well I think:

During the Second World War, the Germans tried to recruit anti-Communist and anti-Russian Balts and Ukrainians to fight for them, we in a sense are reviving those ghosts of collaboration from 70 years ago. And this is a rather rancid and distasteful policy, but also one that is dangerous to the goals we are supposed to be pursuing, like democratization.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 8 2014 2:08 utc | 84

74) yep.

Basically Russia/Putin has won the pipeline war though the EU still tries to block Gazprom ownership of the South Stream Pipeline (Southern European countries already signed the contracts).

As is, Ukraine will lose its monopoly on the main gas trade route between Russia and Europe - and Russia is not in business for the love of Ukrainians. Europe will not go on a trade war with Russia, and the conflict in Ukraine will be solved peacefully. There is nothing the US/Britain can do on Russian influence in Southern and Eastern Europe including Germany except saying "fuck Europe" and support Fascist/Islamic thugs for blackmail. There is a whole rise of the bunch in Hungary, Greece, Ex-Yougoslavia whereever you look. Yes, they come with economic difficulties. They can be made to succeed though, or not.
79) Yep, the economic hit man should be basic school literature. Greece figures highly on these Southern pipeline routes to Europe.

Oh, by the way, things are getting rough in Bosnia, again.

Everybody here in Bavaria (skiing countryside) by the way is glued to their television screens for the Olympics. It is very hard to hate Russians.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 8 2014 7:29 utc | 85

There was a gentleman on a recent episode of RT's CrossTalk, Mark Almond, who put it very well I think: "During the Second World War, the Germans tried to recruit anti-Communist and anti-Russian Balts and Ukrainians to fight for them, we in a sense are reviving those ghosts of collaboration from 70 years ago. And this is a rather rancid and distasteful policy, but also one that is dangerous to the goals we are supposed to be pursuing, like democratization." Posted by: guest77 | Feb 7, 2014 9:08:30 PM | 82
I can remember Mark Almond, straight off the bat. Yes, here he is:
Here's a nice headline from him in the Daily Mail:

MARK ALMOND: China's battalions of brutality: As thousands of troops take on protesters, is time running out for this ruthless regime?

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 8 2014 8:16 utc | 86

84) Fyi, papers like the daily mail (probably every paper) employ headline specialists. Authors have no control over the headline.
Mark Almond's cv looks solid enough.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 8 2014 8:50 utc | 87

Putin must be reading Moon of Alabama!

Putin aide warns U.S. on Ukraine, says Russia could act – Reuters, Feb 6, 2014

Sergei Glazyev, an adviser to President Vladimir Putin with responsibility for relations with Ukraine, told a newspaper that U.S. "interference" breached the 1994 treaty under which Washington and Moscow jointly guaranteed Ukraine's security and sovereignty after Kiev gave up its Soviet-era nuclear arsenal.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 8 2014 11:02 utc | 88

Bosnia just to remember the EU-crats that they'd better keep snoozing, otherwise it may get worse.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 8 2014 11:18 utc | 89

84) Germany's sleepy Social Democrats have woken up now - Friedrich Ebert Stiftung criticizes Klitschko's union with Ukrainian Fascists - Klitschko is sponsored by the Conservative Konrad Adenauer Foundation.

Angela Merkel's government is dependent on Social Democrat's, Social Democrat Steinmeier is foreign minister.

There will be no agressive anti-Russian German policy concerning Ukraine. Ukraine's interests are to act as a bridge not as a battling ground.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 8 2014 12:53 utc | 90

Marriage Counselling

i like quote "Let me work on Klitschko, and I think we should get a Western personality to come out here (to Ukraine) and midwife this thing,’’ he adds.

and bit about plans to work on Klitschko's marriage (or are they)

Are they now into Marriage Counselling?

reminds of The Simpsons
("that could be anyones arse"---mayor Quimby to police Chief Wiggum)

Posted by: chris m | Feb 8 2014 14:19 utc | 91

i mean Marriage Guidance Counselling

ps when they refer to Ukrainian democrats,
they obviously to great democrats of US of A

and technocrats can mean anything you like.
Italy and Greece also have governments run by technocrats

Posted by: chris m | Feb 8 2014 14:37 utc | 92

The WSWS really is very good!

Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2014 15:18 utc | 93

@86 Thanks for the background Rowan, I'm not exactly sure what the point of your comment is.

Is he to be put in a hermetically sealed plastic sack and ignored forever because of what he wrote about China? Seems to me his point on the rightists in the Ukraine is quite valid.

He seems to have the best of intentions - for that slippery thing called "democracy", while also being firmly against that particular brand the US imposes on people.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 9 2014 2:10 utc | 95

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