Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 11, 2014

Syria: More OpEd Nonsense While NYT Editorial Begins To Make Sense

A rather weird OpEd in the New York Times argues for a military "responsibility-to-protect" intervention to provide "human corridors" to allegedly starving Syrians:

If Russia blocks meaningful international action, and if the Assad regime or any rebel group refuses to allow humanitarian aid into the besieged areas, the sieges must be broken by any means necessary.

We should invoke the Responsibility to Protect, the principle that if a state fails to protect its populations from mass atrocities — or is in fact the perpetrator of such crimes — the international community must step in to protect the victims, with the collective use of force authorized by the Security Council. And if a multinational force cannot be assembled, then at least some countries should step up and organize Syria’s democratically oriented rebel groups to provide the necessary force on the ground, with air cover from participating nations.

So if Russia and China block a Security Council resolution there must be an R2P Security Council resolution which Russia and China would block making any further action obviously illigeal.  Then some countries could illegally use military forces to help the no-existing "democratically oriented rebel groups" to provide whatever.

The once blocked Yarmouk Palestinian camp has been cleared from fighters against the government and is back under Palestinian and government control. Nearly half of the 2,000 civilians in a small area within Homs city that was under siege and that also holds several thousand of fighters have left the area. The next big areas which are under siege and in need of relief are the 50,000 people in the Shia towns al-Zahraa and Nubl. They are besieged by insurgents. Are we to believe that "democratically oriented rebel groups" will provide for them? And which country would be crazy enough to send its military to Syria to receive the wrath not only of the Syrian and Russian governments but also of the al-Qaeda oriented jihadis?

Compared to that nonsense the main editorial in today's NYT makes nearly makes  sense:

[A] political solution is not out of the question if some right choices are made. The United States, for one, should drop its opposition to including Iran, which supplies arms and other assistance to Mr. Assad, in the negotiations. Russia, another weapons supplier, could send a powerful message to Mr. Assad by suspending its arms deliveries. Saudi Arabia and Qatar could send the same message to Mr. Assad’s opposition by ending weapons deliveries to the rebels. And Turkey could close its border to the foreign fighters that have turned Syria into a cauldron of extremist elements that threaten the entire region.

That is more realistic position than the so far uttered ones in the U.S. editorial world. But isn't it funny that it doesn't mention Jordan where the U.S. trains insurgents, provides them with weapons and then send them off to fight in Syria. Should that, in the mind of the NYT editors, continue?

Interestingly president Obama picked up one issue from that editorial today. In a press confernece with the French president Hollande Obama called on the international community to stop the flow of foreign fighters into Syria.

Was that directed at the Saudis and Turkey?

Posted by b on February 11, 2014 at 18:01 UTC | Permalink


O's comment wasn't 'aimed' at anyone. It was rhetorical, only for the cameras.

What I see as a struggle for power between Qatar's MB, and Saudi's AQ, witnessed by the internecine fighting between rebel groups, O, or any other power, is not likely to influence either Saud or Qatar to quit 'sponsoring foreign fighters'.

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 11 2014 18:42 utc | 1

Terrified Saudi Arabia is shifting its priorities after discreetly discarding Bandar Ben Sultan, just like Qatar did with Hamad ben Jassem.

Islamist threat at home forces Saudi rethink on Syria

While the sources who spoke to Reuters for this report were not able to say with certainty in what way Riyadh will alter its systematic support for rebels under the policy engineered by Prince Bandar, they said senior figures in Riyadh increasingly worry that toppling Assad will take longer than they hoped.

Meanwhile, radical groups in Syria have been getting stronger at the expense of mainstream groups that have been the main recipients of Saudi military and financial aid, training and logistical support. Assad's position has also solidified in the past year.

The failure to build a rebel force that can defeat Assad is partly due to logistical difficulties in working with many disparate groups spread across the country, but it is also because the strongest rebel factions are linked to al Qaeda.

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 11 2014 18:57 utc | 2

It's no surprise in view of the infantile and delusional strategies that the US, France and UK have adopted from the beginning in Syria.

Assad strongman strategy working

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 11 2014 19:03 utc | 3

Yeah, and I just read about zusa reserving its "right" to intervene militarily in Syria.

Frankly, I laughed. Because it's funny how self-important zusa feels, how they dumb-stubbornly continue their line of aggression, and, most importantly, how delusional zusa sees itself (Most of their high school graduates can't count and write properly but they feel "superior" anyway).
I mean, why on earth should any not militarily insignificant country be afraid of the zamerican PSTD worn coward military and its non functional weapons; not to even talk about Russia and China who clearly call the shots nowadays (yes, they still allow zusa to make noise but not much more).

If I had five minutes with Putin in private I'd ask him "Don't you see, Mr. President, how profoundly incapable the zamericans are to properly use your patient and friendly attitude to let them leave the stage in some dignity?"

zusa lost in Afghanistan, they lost in Iraq, they lost with Syria, they are losing and will continue to lose in Ukraine, and they will, of course, lose again in Syria. But if they dared to use their (non-existing) "right" to intervene militarily, they'll lose way more than their face; they'll be terminated physically.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 11 2014 19:17 utc | 4

Response to Mr. P. The dumbing down of the American policy elite mirrors the deliberate dumbing down (starting from an already dismal level) of the American public since the 1980s. The stupidity is palpable. There is a stock-flow aspect that causes the average quality of the stock decline with the leaving of the generally superior old cohorts and their replacement by clearly inferior young cohorts. Reagan's policies weren't as bad as we feared because the quality of the stock, whether one agreed with George Schultz or not, was still pretty good, and this was largely true through the first Clinton administration. Since then it has been downhill at an accelerating rate. Merit, assuming there is any and it can be identified does not seem to be a qualification for appointment to strategic positions. Ms Nuland is obviously a legacy appointment and there must be many others. The editorial boards of the New York Times and Washington Post are stuffed with them. There has been systematic adverse selection. The military are a little because despite the careerism, they have actually to know something and perform to get promoted.

Posted by: Knut | Feb 11 2014 20:48 utc | 5

Mr.Pragma,thank you!!!!!
I too have dreamed of asking President Putin this very same question for a long time now because zusa is just too corrupted in its very brain to understand that they are finish.They definitely don't want to ride gently away in the sunset .They desperately need a good kick in the ass,that is at this point the only thing they will really grasp!
What is your intake on Russia and the abomination state relation?this question puzzles me .thanks

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 11 2014 21:25 utc | 6

Knut @ 5

I think you're on the money. Our present-day elites are of such a low grade you would probably have to go back to the Hoover-era 1920s to find the same level of shit-sniffing cluelessness and self-congratulation. If you mark this degradation as beginning in the 1980s then we have to factor in the rise of inequality as a key factor in the erosion of the mental and moral faculties of the elite. Isn't there an old saw about high levels of inequality spelling doom for a society?

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 11 2014 21:56 utc | 7

Nobody (6)

What is your intake on Russia and the abomination state relation?

I can't answer you because I don't understand your question. Maybe you want to elaborate it somewhat.

Knut (5)

Well, yes and no.

Yes because there is some major stupidization going on, not only in zusa but generally in the western world.

I do not think, however, that it is targeting or widely affecting the elite. Actually I'm convinced that this stupidization is deliberate and targeting the general population.
It should also be noted (and, IMO underlines my assumption) that this goes hand in hand with a destructive corrosion of culture, religion and social bonds. The "modern citizen" is atheistic, fun and consumption oriented and basically alone. Which, of course, makes it quite easy to form and manipulate him.
That together with stupidization creates the perfect animal to vote as dictated, to consume as dictated and to lack any major orientation or option to verify what he is dictated other than the thugs who control that ugly perfidious game.

And it makes further programming, as needed, quite easy.

Actually, this is a very interesting topic that also touches military and other questions. Military both in the classical sense and in the "media" and system wars.

In the latter sense it helps to understand how zusa, zeu and similar cancer carbuncles *seem* so strong (to their victi ... uh, ... citizens). They work very well because the people are almost condemned to believe them, being widely at the mercy of their masters.
But - and ere it gets funny and corresponds with your view - the master become victims, too, victims of their own machinations; in that system, of course, they sooner or later (and definitely after decades) feel almost godlike and believe their own credo.
It is, I'm convinced, at least in part due to this that they splatter all that BS. They *really* believe in it, they are thugs and victims at the same time.

But military also in a rather classical sense. Just look at the example of zamerican soldiers urinating on their victims dead bodies. Those soldiers aren't human any more. They have been formed into fighting animals, even worse because even a dog in a pit is left with something those zusa soldiers don't have, some dignity.

At the same time the zusa military is lousy. PR, image and make belief having become the very core of zusa, it's not important whether your jets fly or your missiles hit; they aren't judging their capabilities on what they really have but rather on what their "news", which are hardly more than sales and PR shows, make them believe.
And their is another weakness. In a way dehumanizing their population and making them obedient worker, voters (believing in the power and importance of their vote), consumers and believers in basically a fairy tale (painted, narrated and controlled by their masters) they are handy (for their masters) but they lack major values and capabilities of good soldiers (assuming that "good soldier" means more than being ready to be brutal and to obey orders).
It is no coincidence that more and more zamerican veterans feel left alone - they are.

Zusa is a cancer and it should be treated as one. As should the controllers of their controllers with israeli passports.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 11 2014 22:37 utc | 8

@8,Mr.Pragma,by the abomination state I meant the zionist one.What do you think is the view of Russia toward this cancer?Does it really differ from the rest of the Resistance axis?thanks

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 11 2014 23:17 utc | 9

"Our Western partners in the Security Council ... proposed that we cooperate in working out a resolution. The ideas they shared with us were absolutely one-sided and detached from reality," the Interfax news agency quoted Lavrov as saying after talks with Algerian Foreign Minister Ramtane Lamamra.

Read more at:

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 11 2014 23:20 utc | 10

Nobody (9)

Uh, O.k.

Well I think that's not easy to answer. Looking at the surface it might seem that Russia has no attitude towards jews and israel.

Looking deeper, however, one dicovers many undertones and factors. One of them obviously being that Putin clearly - and correctly - is strongly associated with the christian orthodox church which happens to be the "state religion" of Russia. But Putin isn't against other religions in any way; he visited muslims and buddhists, for instance. As for the jews, that might (I don't think so) be coincidence I'm not aware of Putin ever visiting or interacting with them besides what necessity dictates.

Of course, Putin as an Ex KGB officer knows russian history very well and, in fact, he supposedly knows quite some things the average Russian doesn't know.
This is also true for his time as President.

Evidently, lenin and stalin, both intimately linked to zionism and alsmost certainly jews themselves and bringing many other jews (usually zio-related) into power and/or position, have done immense harm to Russia.
Decades later, when communism ended, the traitor whore gorbachev and later the drunkard jelzin completely sold out Russia and her wealth. And once again jews, typically with tight links to israel, are, to put it diplomatically, unproportionally well represented among those who baughts fortunes in resources and state enterprises for pennies.

So, simply speaking, almost every Russian has good reason to detest and hate israel and zionists. Many go one additional step and hate jews generally. And again, Putin knows more dirty details than almost everyone and he without doubt has the intelligence to see and understand the connecting factor.

Similarly, Putin of course knows about israels role. Does he hate israel? I don't think so; or at least he is reasonable enough to play it to Russias advantage.
In that regard I see two major points. For one if israel were destroyed the question might arise where to put all those people, in particular the ones fleeing a bombed israel. As a considerable part of israelis came from Russia it would seem natural to them to return to Russia - which, sure enough, is a very unattractive option.
Second, israel happens to be useful for Russia. For the simple reason that it is them who have completely eroded and broken zusa. Would it be wise to put oneself in their way? I don't think so; just let them go on ruining zusa.
I'm no expert on that matter but from what I've seen it looks like Putin and israel have found an arrangement. israel keeps from doing anything whatsoever against Russia, or else ... but they may happily destroy zusa.

In the long run israel will be destroyed because unfortunately it also infests and corrodes all other western countries, too, and also is the center of trouble in the near/middle east. But that will not be Putins or Russias problem. Sure, Russia will sell weapons but the wet job itself will be done by others, and quite probably - and cynically - it will be in self defense after being terrorized or attacked by israel. Iran, for instance, is an excellent candidate.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 12 2014 0:43 utc | 11

The US made a decision a long time ago, that Assad had to go, it made that decision with the destruction of the Arc of extremism in mind, first Syria [the low hanging fruit] then Hezbollah and finally Iran. With Assad still in place it has no plan B, it is only with the defeat on the battlefield of the head chopping perverts will US policy change, the weakening of Syria as an enemy of Israel could I suppose be seen as some kind of victory for Israel/US and if as a consequence hundreds of thousands of Syrians have to die so that US/Israel hegemony is preserved they will think those deaths [as Madeline Albright said in a different context] were worth it.

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 12 2014 0:46 utc | 12

"Compared to that nonsense the main editorial in today's NYT nearly makes sense:"

And 'nearly' is the operative word.
The NYT editorial is only a subtler smear campaign. The OpEd is there to make it look comparatively sane.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 12 2014 1:04 utc | 13

It's nearly funny how easily the most world's most cowardly and amoral mass-murderers can slither into Crocodile Tears Mode at the drop of a hat (or half-baked plot).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 12 2014 1:19 utc | 14


'democratically oriented rebel groups" to provide whatever.

The once blocked Yarmouk Palestinian camp has been cleared from fighters against the government and is back under Palestinian and government control. Nearly half of the 2,000 civilians in a small area within Homs city that was under siege and that also holds several thousand of fighters have left the area. The next big areas which are under siege and in need of relief are the 50,000 people in the Shia towns al-Zahraa and Nubl. They are besieged by insurgents'

snigger....this last sentence according to NYTs Danny Postel(jewish?) should read: 'They are besieged by democratically oriented rebel groups'

Posted by: brian | Feb 12 2014 1:34 utc | 15

i recall when 'democratically oriented rebel groups(DORG)' blew up the twin towers and WTC7.....bombed London tube and a bus, bombed Bali etc

that set off the War on DORG...


Posted by: brian | Feb 12 2014 1:37 utc | 16

@11, Mr Smegma, you spew bullshit: Lenin was an internationalist. He was opposed to any attempt to drive a wedge between working people of any ethnicity, be they white, brown, jew or hottentot. There is nothing he wrote, said or did that tended to favo(u)r Jews over others. Russia owes him a debt of gratitude as does the world.

Posted by: ruralito | Feb 12 2014 2:10 utc | 17

V.I. Lenin stated that the primary supporters of Zionism belonged to the Jewish bourgeoisie or their puppets. He also rightly pointed out that it was bourgeois culture and Zionism, combining together, that was desperately attempting to weaken the working class movement as a pseudo-progressive trend of thought. The position taken up by Lenin and the Bolsheviks was a counter-argument against the claims from the Zionists within the General Jewish Labour Bund (a Jewish union of sorts). Some of the members of the General Jewish Labour Bund eventually joined the Bolsheviks, leaving the Bund to dissolve in the early 1920’s. The remnants of the Bund claimed that their members were forced to join and denounced the proletarian government as anti-Semitic. The Bolsheviks suppressed the Zionists, and many of the Zionists in turn suppressed Jews who did not agree with their radical views, such as the Jewish section of the Communist Party.

Posted by: ruralito | Feb 12 2014 2:17 utc | 18

"lenin and stalin...have done immense harm to Russia."

You're Russian of course, so I hate to quibble with your own version of your own history. But it seems hard to me that you can point to the "immense harm" that Stalin and Lenin did to Russia, considering when they came to power, the country had collapsed under its own weight, too impoverished, too divided, too poor and too weak to even take on Japan or even survive the first world war. Even less so, I think, can one point to the "immense harm" done to Russia by building up industry, fraternity, patriotic feeling that allowed for the rallying of the country to fend off an attack of far greater magnitude than the one that had, only 20 year before, brought Russia to her knees.

There is no doubt that what Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroyed the country, but if it was not for the Communists, likely it would have occurred in 1917 and not 1991. At least in this case, the country was able to go to pieces to some degree on its own terms, not torn to pieces while occupied by hostile powers.

To claim that Lenin and Stalin did immense harm to Russia one would have to believe that a flagging Russia under the rule of the Czar, crippled by constant insurrection and protest from the Russian peasants and Russian workers - was some great success. And that, I think, is a hard argument to make. But you tell me.

You are right of course, that the US will lose in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and the Ukraine, but what's the real problem is that it still has potential to create trouble in all of these places at once. As I mentioned recently, the US has nothing to lose in starting these fires, and is proving just how amoral it intends to be, caring not if it takes sparking civil wars to secure its stature. My guess is that the only way to combat the US/Israel/NATOs plans for divide and conquer will be to bury nationalism and ethnic feeling, as Assad seems to be managing to do in Syria. It seems clear that - wether it was US strategy to begin with in Iraq I don't know (though, we might guess that it was) - it is now policy to foster civil war and complete societal breakdown all over the globe. To destroy by any means necessary that what it cannot secure.

This strategy of death squads, civil war and apartheid, honed in Central America but now duplicated on a grand scale and powered, no doubt, by its control over that great PR machine the internet - makes US strategy in places like Viet Nam look morally pristine.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 12 2014 2:33 utc | 19

Careful, we mustn't forget those other two great Jewish Communists, Mao Tse-tung and Ho Chi Minh.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 12 2014 2:37 utc | 20

@ Mr.Pragma,thank you for this very exhaustive explanation.I agree with all what you wrote.My concerns are two:the one million russian living in the abomination state and the gas offshore contracts and pipelines that Russia has secured with the zionist state and Syria(Lebanon is in the wing albeit not immediately because of the very complex situation /brothel it find itself to be now torn between the two axis the Resistance one and zusa's one).I am afraid that this two issues will hinder in the future the liberation of Palestine and the demise of the cancerous zionist entity.Because they will be no peace in the neighborhood as long as it prospers among us.

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 12 2014 2:59 utc | 21

No objective observer (certainly no academic with detailed knowledge of the region's history) who has been following the conflict closely could seriously claim in 2014: "some countries should step up and organize Syria’s democratically oriented rebel groups to provide the necessary force on the ground, with air cover from participating nations."

The authors of the OpEd have an ideological agenda:

Danny Postel and Nader Hashemi, the associate director and director, respectively, of the Center for Middle East Studies at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver, are co-editors of “The Syria Dilemma.”

Maybe the NYT realizes that it looks too obvious going to WINEP or the Saban Center at Brookings for all of its Middle East commentators.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Feb 12 2014 3:21 utc | 22

@19: "This strategy of death squads, civil war and apartheid, honed in Central America but now duplicated on a grand scale and powered, no doubt, by its control over that great PR machine the internet - makes US strategy in places like Viet Nam look morally pristine."
The "West" and its minions, don't mind losing battles to "win" the ultimate war, corporate dominance globally. As the oligarchs unite globally, using finance as a weapon, along with austerity to pauperize more and more nations workers, what nation can resist? I'm waiting.

Posted by: ben | Feb 12 2014 3:58 utc | 23

Ad "Lenin and Stalin"

Well there are different versions of history and I don't care to discuss that matter. Feel free to believe in and to propagate whatever version you happen to consider correct. Just don't expect me to dance along those tunes.

Ad "israel and peace"

I respect the diverse political views about communism, bourgoisie and whatnot.

It won't work, however and it doesn't need to. There is a chain of factors, some of which supported israel since it's deceitful creation and the first and most supportive link, zusa, is breaking right now. The next piece will be the zusa/zionist system. Already during the second step israel will quite openly turn to even more aggression in its neighbourhood. It will rely on its samson option and it will be destroyed by its own ignorance.

That's why Putin enjoys success. He is not stupid nor brutal, he doesn't play Poker but a Go and checkers. Just these days he talked about the soft way, the jiu jitsu way and this wasn't merely allegorical.
To put it in a somewhat religious way: zionists and to a large degree americans have tempted God in believing that they can understand and control everything - well they can't. They have lost track of some of the most important factors of all, of culture, of humanity, of wisdom, of humility. One can see that everywhere, in science, in war, in politics, in religion.
zionists, their servants and their slaves rely on the black magic of dehumanization through PR, media, deception, uprouting, etc.
Putin relies on truth and on values like intelligence, family, religion, but also on values the zionists buy and sell and talk about, like loyalty, and strength.

I know that many "modern and scientifically educated" people here will laugh at me but I also know that israel and zusa are rotting right now as I speak and they are beyond the point of no return.
Even their desperate attempts to keep at least the show, the image alive is failing more and more.

And Russia blossoms.

Tomorrow I will at the news and I will laugh again about zusa newest ridiculous stupidity and their subservience toward aipac.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 12 2014 4:10 utc | 24

Despite US full spectrum failure militarily beginning with Vietnam right through the present moment (unless you count Reagan's "invasion" of Grenada a success), it's very difficult to not understand that the MIC has taken over the entire domestic and foreign policy of US. In other words, blind, propagandized, gullible if you're a citizen, and essentially a traitor if you're a politician.

Why else would US keep doubling down in the face of proven, undeniable failures militarily everywhere they've 'intervened'. What's that saying about insanity?

Posted by: okie farmer | Feb 12 2014 6:36 utc | 25

My congratulations to the AlQaeda Department for Education for hiring teachers like this guy with such an excellent and practical hands on approach, I do hope they can hire more like him..

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 12 2014 9:07 utc | 26

Those were having a tourism seminar in a Crusader castle

Posted by: Mina | Feb 12 2014 9:43 utc | 27

Isn't it strange the way Nations fall in and out of love for one another, ten years ago the French [according to the US] were cheese eating surrender monkeys, then when they do the bidding of the US, gung-ho on Iran and Syria, they are the American's best friends, now that the French are trying to get their foot into Iranian trade first, Obama threatens them with sanctions, what Obama essentially told Hollende [Monsieur Hulo] was, these sanctions are US ones [the UN ones are inconsequential] and since we are the rulers of the world, you do as you are told, OR ELSE.

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 12 2014 9:45 utc | 28

I suspect they try to use this as another wake up call for the international djihadist brigades (not that they would go to help their borthers in CAR, but rather that they may get even more activated in Iraq/Syria/Lebanon/Egypt. It's the Spring cleaning: trash whoever you don't want anymore (you can still pretend you had 'too many genes of it already, like the Danish zoo...')

Posted by: Mina | Feb 12 2014 12:01 utc | 29

I think the reuters story that virgile quotes at #2 is pure disinfo, and this whole thread has gone off after that in error.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 12 2014 14:06 utc | 30

@24 Mr.Pragma,very wise words,especially those regarding zusa who believes it can outplay and outsmart God as if the Creator was a mere Mafia Thug!The West has lost touch with reality and millennia old wisdom ,it has for centuries worked hard at destroying whole civilizations from inside with the help of military bestiality and it never payed attention to the fact that the constant mining of tabus and beliefs that hold societies together will return like a boomerang eating it methodically from inside like the vermin it really is.Hence "human right"cult,"sexual diversity"status,systemic destruction of Churches (so that the only one remaining above all the other is the one that if criticized will lead you automatically to the comfort of a cell in our very democratic judiciary system),porn and violence as a rite in every MSM .It was all envisioned to advance corporation into power and lead decade after decade to the complete erosion of the West.We are approaching the End and I too envision a very brutal one to a zionist entity gone mad and a zusa unhindered by any control.The arc of instability on the planet is extending without an end in sight.

Posted by: Nobody | Feb 12 2014 14:12 utc | 31

The blunt reality

Mohammad Ballout, an analyst with the Lebanese daily As-Safir newspaper covering the talks in Geneva, said the world has no choice but to engage with Assad because it fears the collapse of the Syrian state.

“The alternative to Bashar Assad is not a democratic one, with all due respect to the opposition,” he said. “The alternative to Bashar Assad is chaos at best and Islamic fiefdoms with no central government at worst.”

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 12 2014 14:40 utc | 32

I'm afraid that's precisely the outcome the US/Israel wants. The hope is that they will learn their goals are beyond their means.

Posted by: Lysander | Feb 12 2014 15:15 utc | 33

The notion that Lenin and Stalin were Jewish, whatever that might mean, is one that Mr Pragma and the Black Hundreds are welcome to discuss at their own leisure. It would be interesting, however, to read the explanation of why it matters. And in particular of how Lenin's alleged religious prejudices could possibly have a bearing on the State of Israel, founded a quarter of a century after the Russian's death.
As to Stalin, the former seminarian, being a Zionist, I don't doubt that there is all sorts of "evidence" of this: he was after all an opportunist who in the course of his career offered his support to just about every cause available, including Hitler's. In Greece he supported Churchill, against the Communists. In France, De Gaulle; in China, Chiang. One thing is certain if he ever supported Zionists he will also have betrayed them.
The truth is that not only were neither Stalin or Lenin Jews, but that it would matter not at all if, like Zinoviev, Kamenev and Trotsky, they were. The same is true of their zionism: all the records indicate that Lenin was an opponent of zionism but supposing that he had a sympathy for it, which is not impossible, he called Russia a Prison of Nations, what bearing would it have on the subject under discussion?

I have a great deal of sympathy for Russian nationalism but it has no future if it is continually to be sidetracked into anti-semitic and and fascistic channels.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 12 2014 15:27 utc | 34

I read in the papers here a week ago that (on Wed 5 feb) a Swiss envoy met, in Teheran, the vice foreign ministers of Syria and Iran.

The three of them talked for at least a day and 1/2.

A few things were agreed on, some in a sort of ‘tentative or temporary’ way.

1) Sealed and attested aid packages (food meds etc.) would no longer be inspected, checked, or held up, or whatever. Damas agreed to that. (More work for the aid agencies though.)

2) Aid workers, foreignors, would be allowed to use radio communication.

3) Some evacuation of civilians in Homs could proceed. (Has started up but haven’t looked up details just now.)

This shows that tiny steps are being made, at the margins, because Iran is excluded.

Meanwhile, Geneva 2 is in round 2, and Brahimi was pleased with the first round - he said he had no aim whatsoever except keeping those there (anybody) talking, and not storming off into the hills. Now he seems to have stiffened a bit.

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 12 2014 15:58 utc | 35


Methinks you protest too much about sidetracking a topic. Whatever that might mean.

Posted by: Ozawa | Feb 12 2014 16:56 utc | 36

I ignore most of "the news that's fit to print" on th'NYT op-ed or any other page...r2p is shoite! r2p is zato bombs...just another screed on behalf of th'"international community" WETF that zato to act as al-cia-duh's airforce.

Posted by: bfrakes | Feb 12 2014 17:04 utc | 37


Yup, it's still hard to for many intelligent people to contemplate that rather than all of this murderous destruction and destabilization being the short-sighted failings of the US hegemon it may very well be exactly what the plan was all along.

Even beyond the fact that the entire GWOT perfectly maps to the Israeli Yinon Plan, there is this consideration: are the US elite so blind as to the domestic/international troubles that are brewing? Certainly there have their fair share of effing idiot puppets - e.g. Nuland et al - but let's be realistic, there's still a lot of money and power for the management to get their long-term agendas hewed to and that means hiring some brains. What to do, what to do....

Hey, here's an idea: burn down/destroy/destabilize as much as possible around the planet so that no one country/state/alliance can sweep in and take the hegemon's place. While the US takes a decade or two to "retool" etc, it at least won't have to worry as much about having events dictated to them as they can for a mere pittance keep arming mercenaries around the world to cause problems for any potential rivals.

In addition, I more than most rightly call out the leaders of the US as murderous war criminals but as far as sheer unbridled in-your-face domestic economic fascism I don't know if the American pikers can YET hold a candle to what's be going on in the EU over the last 4 years - i.e., Greece, Spain, Italy, Cyprus, etc etc - where the will of the people in the face of record unemployment rates etc has consistently just been ignored if not outrightly rejected on the order of the Brussels overlords who have a propensity to keep hiring/taking advice from Goldman Sachs and other alums from the American banker circle of hell.

Gee, it sure looks like the Euro's not going to replace the dollar any time soon. Who could have seen that? How fortuitous.

Next stop the ruble and renminbi....

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 12 2014 18:08 utc | 38


Think of it as the less dramatic, more limited "Samson Option": Oh, we're in decline as an empire/country all right but we'll make sure everyone has plenty to worry about when we exit the stage for a bit and "attend" to domestic matters etc. Enjoy!

The directive from the top would be as simple as: here's some money, go fuck shit up.

It's a win-win for the Americans: they can keep supplying weapons etc so that countries can deal with the shit they - the Americans - start/fund and it keeps their "allies" preoccupied with crap on their front doorstep so there's no talk about not needing the US for protection etc when other countries - the BRICS - continue to rise in prominence.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 12 2014 18:33 utc | 39

"Interestingly president Obama picked up one issue from that editorial today. In a press confernece with the French president Hollande Obama called on the international community to stop the flow of foreign fighters into Syria.

Was that directed at the Saudis and Turkey?"

No, it was directed at the dumbed down masses who wish to believe that Obama is something he is not.
That being a Nobel peace prize recipient and different from GWB
It smacks of left vs right nonsense...
Obama- trying to be diplomatic?
Just a whole heck of a lot of bunkum!

Posted by: Penny | Feb 12 2014 18:48 utc | 41


Yarmouk isn't cleared of insurgents yet, but there appears to be significant progress toward that goal. Interesting interview in Al Akhbar with some representatives of the Palestinian pro-regime factions in Yarmouk.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Feb 12 2014 19:11 utc | 42

From Reuters, re: transitional government benchmarks:

The Syrian opposition called on Wednesday for a transitional governing body to be set up that would oversee a total ceasefire under UN monitoring and be empowered to drive out foreign fighters deployed on both sides of the civil war.

The classified paper, obtained by Reuters, was presented to international mediator Lakhdar Brahimi and a Syrian government delegation at a joint session held at peace talks in Geneva.

"The Transitional Governing Body will prepare and oversee a total ceasefire by taking immediate measures to stop military violence, protect civilians and stabilize the country in the presence of UN observers," the five-page document said.

It calls on all parties to "cooperate with the TGB in stopping the violence including the complete withdrawal of troops and tackling the issue of decommissioning the weapons of armed groups and demobilizing its members or integrating them into the army or civil public sectors".

The Damascus delegation did not reply to the proposal, opposition spokesman Louay Safi told reporters. "At this point we have not heard any response...I would like to hear some positive response."

As far as "driving out foreign fighters," Assad just needs to tell some Iranian advisors and Hezbollah border brigades that their assistance is no longer needed and they will be gone in little time. Some of the insurgents' foreign fighters would be much harder to persuade to leave, even if their funding were cut.

Further, the Syrian government has already been reintegrating deserters back into the SAA, working out amnesty deals and in the case of some regions, allowing some insurgent groups to remain as long as they can guarantee that foreign fighters have departed.

So, why should the Syrian government agree to an unelected body (some members of which can't even control the fighters they claim to represent) taking over tasks that it has already initiated toward stabilization and reconciliation?

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Feb 12 2014 19:49 utc | 43

Lenin and Stalin, both intimately linked to zionism and almost certainly Jews themselves and bringing many other Jews (usually zio-related) into power and/or position, have done immense harm to Russia... Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 11, 2014 7:43:26 PM | 11
Neither Lenin nor Stalin was Jewish, but of course Trotsky was, and Trotsky was Lenin's own choice for successor. Trotsky, as the years went by in exile, revealed himself among other things to be a Zionist. Stalin to some extent allowed Jews to become a party-within-the-party during WW2, but in 1946 he started to purge them all. He authorised a very considerable supply of weapons to the Zionist entity when it was fighting its war of independence in 1948, but immediately came to regret this: I found evidence that Zionist emissaries had persuaded him that their entity would be pro-Soviet, rather than pro-US as it immediately announced itself to be, when it won its independence. Stalin's move to purge the CPSU of Jews must have intensified after the Zionist betrayal of 1948.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Feb 12 2014 20:36 utc | 44


Zionist emissaries had persuaded him that their entity would be pro-Soviet, rather than pro-US as it immediately announced itself to be, when it won its independence. Stalin's move to purge the CPSU of Jews must have intensified after the Zionist betrayal of 1948.

A purge of Jews (whether they were Zionist or not) would then have been used by Israel to claim that such a refuge was needed from anti-Semitic persecution. Hasbara can spin all sorts of events to justify the necessity of an ethnic supremacist state.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Feb 12 2014 20:50 utc | 45

My point wasn't to discuss the details of jewishness or being zionistic of Lenin, Stalin etc.
I was answering a question where this played a role. There is at least strong evidence pointing to jews, who happened to be zionists, having played a major role in the events in Russia taking place during about the first half of the 20th. century.
Furthermore, a major part (to put it very diplomatically) of todays oligarchs happen to have a strong affinity to israel (again, very diplomatically speaking); chodorkowsky, for instance flew directly to Germany (as if he had no chance to know that his mother wasn't there). Some days later he flew to Zurich and yet some days later when he wasn't that much in the media focus anymore (a point interesting in itself) he went to israel.

A factor traditionally underestimated by western countries (for good reason) is that Russians are by far better educated than most western nations (frankly, I wouldn't know a western exception). They may have learned an, to a degree, kept to shut up but they are by no means stupid; they think about what they see and Russia also has a vivid intelligentia.

Just look at the nineties. Of course Russians wanted jeans, hamburgers and walkmen. But while the west painted that as Russians longing to join the west it actually was a mere antithesis to communism and the desire to enjoy what they couldn't have before.
In fact, it were jelzins "young prime ministers" (and, of course jelzin himself) who invited and welcomed the western corporations incl. their cia agents, who brutally ruined what was left. It wasn't the people, it wasn't the average Russian.

And Russians, of course, notice that most criminals and oligarchs flee to israel. It doesn't create sympathy if certain bad people turning out (or being known in the first place) to be jewish who have stolen billions from the Russian people, get a warm welcome and security in a certain country.

And there is another factor to consider. Putin has learned and practiced to be very patient for years. When he started Russia got almost nothing (other than environment damage) from it's own oil proceedings; the zamericans basically robbed and plundered Russia and Putin couldn't do that much against it; Russia simply didn't have the power.
Today, after many years of brilliant planning and very smart political moves, Russia can tell zusa to get lost or else...
Sure enough this man will not bluntly and stupidly bring the whole world up against Russia by doing something that allows israel to distort it and accuse Russia of anti-semitism. Unlike western leaders, however, Putin isn't a cheap whore. He may let israel in to some small fish like some minor oil site, but he didn't bow in yad vashem (the holocaust memorial where every state visitor is dragged to and has to bow) and he sure enough doesn't trust israel even 1/10th of an inch.

In summary, if I were a jew (but not a zionist) living in Russia I wouldn't be afraid but I would make it abundantly clear that I'm against israel and that I love my country Russia. If, on the other hand, I were a zionist I'd pack in a hurry.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 12 2014 21:46 utc | 46

"Putin relies on truth and on values like intelligence, family, religion, but also on values the zionists buy and sell and talk about, like loyalty, and strength."

This is surely true.


I do think bevin's point is important insofar as it speaks to inclusiveness of the Old Left. The fact is that the Social Revolutions following the first world war, and Socialism in general, drew a great amount of their strength from their inclusiveness and their internationalism. Surely it was one of the things that allowed the Soviet Union to form from the various republics which could easily have split following the Russian Revolution. And this feeling was one of the reasons that the Soviet Union fell apart with relatively little bloodshed. Though surely the break up was a disaster, the peacefulness of it allows for, at best, its reformation, or certainly for continuing relations like we between Russia and the Ukraine today. A bloody breakup would have meant the end of any relations between the republics - to the "wests" glee for sure. Of course this bloodshed and bad feeling is precisely what the West is pushing for in Kiev today. Precisely what it has nearly achieved in Iraq between Sunni and Shia.

And the left gathers that same strength from its inclusiveness today, which is why - though it could and should strive to make common cause with populists and nationalists - can never ally itself with anti-immigrant fascists like the Golden Dawn, al Qaeda, pro-occupation Israelis, or those at work in the Ukraine.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 1:51 utc | 47

"And the left gathers that same strength from its inclusiveness today, which is why - though it could and should strive to make common cause with populists and nationalists - can never ally itself with anti-immigrant fascists like the Golden Dawn, al Qaeda, pro-occupation Israelis, or those at work in the Ukraine."

Add to that political islamists in general...

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Feb 13 2014 2:53 utc | 48

"Add to that political islamists in general..."

I don't know enough about the phenomenon in general, but it seems to me that there is nothing wrong with a sort of nationalist or religiously based parties, so long as they can peaceably combine with others. There are dangers of course, and my personal preference is that we'd see none of it. But a striking example of doing it right: the actions of Hezbollah during these recent outrages and provocations in Lebanon - Nasrallah calling for calm, singling out the Takfiris specifically and not Sunnis in general - shows the precise difference between being inclusive, and being supremacist psychopaths.

But I'm interested in your opinions, living with it, you know the phenomena and what it entails far better than I do. What do you think?

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 3:01 utc | 49

It seems that even if one doesn't support inclusiveness for inclusiveness sake, one may consider supporting it as an antidote to the current US tactics.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 3:05 utc | 50

I think Hezbollah is almost a one-and-only exception and that is mainly because -IMO- of the specific structure of Lebanon. It is this social mosaic of Lebanon which has led Hezbollah to be more of a "Lebanese" party than a "religious" party. I wonder how Hezbollah would have evolved had Lebanon been a country of 90% Shia, personally I think it would not have been the Hezbollah of today.

My personal observations tells me that it is a grave mistake to go under some sort of illusion regarding the nature of political islam, it is a mistake that many people have paid for with their lives. One must support even vicious animals like Taliban when they are fighting against occupation of a bully, but one must not go under an illusion regarding their nature. Remember that in Iraq the brunt of fight against occupation was carried by the 'Sunni fighters', all the while when Shia were behaving opportunistically and trying to brokering deals with the occupation forces. And these are the very same sunni fighters which now fight against Asad in Syria and Maleki in Iraq. Did we not support the sunni resistance fighters in fellujah when they were under siege by US forces and fighting heroically? So as long as any one even the devil himself is fighting against occupation we must support it without making an angel out of him.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Feb 13 2014 3:21 utc | 51

"So as long as any one even the devil himself is fighting against occupation we must support it without making an angel out of him."

Very wise words.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 3:40 utc | 52

Related: Is Obama Trying to Resolve or Prolong the Conflict in Syria?

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 4:01 utc | 53

Another blunt reality

US/UN Fears Assad Win in Free Syrian Election?

Ambassador Roknabadi:

[U.N. Undersecretary-General for Political Affairs Jeffrey] Feltman, during a visit to Iran last summer, asked officials to convince Assad not to run in the elections. The Iranian officials asked him: ‘What’s the problem if he runs,’ to which Feltman responded: ‘If he runs, he will win the elections.’
No wonder Secretary Kerry keeps desperately clinging to the US misread of the “Geneva I” communiqué, claiming without evidence that it is a regime-change agreement among signatories. Assad must be kept out of the picture, because the US is terrified of his popularity in Syria.

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 13 2014 5:35 utc | 54

while the Olympics are on:
another foreign backed coup attempt in Venezuela?
Hands Off Venezuela!
3 hours ago
More Venezuelan opposition lies: picture of a religious gathering in Barquisimeto presented as an opposition demo standard operatin procedure: as with libya and syria

Posted by: brian | Feb 13 2014 14:11 utc | 56

Observers told that they witnessed opposition protestors firing live ammunition indiscriminately into buildings, throwing rocks and attempting to storm a communal house in the city centre.

Today observed protestors in balaclavas forcibly stopping vehicles at a main intersection in Merida city's north. The masked protestors forced passengers off buses at gunpoint, and threw shrapnel at other motorists passing through the intersection.

While covering this story, the journalist was held at gunpoint by three protestors, who threatened to “kill” her. The group then attempted to rob the journalist.

“Give us your camera or we’ll kill you,” the protestors repeatedly stated.

On social networks and in the private media the opposition demonstrators have called their protests “peaceful” and claimed the police were repressing them. However, at least three police were injured, and many observers commented that after days of road closures, they wanted police to prevent the very small groups of students from blocking main roads by burning tires.

Posted by: brian | Feb 13 2014 14:56 utc | 57

Talking about American education;Jeopardy the other day had college champions.The final jeopardy query was a satellite map of Sicily,with Mt.Etna spewing smoke.All three couldn't finger Sicily(though one had it right,but crossed it out and put Crete.)one of the most distinctive shaped islands on earth,sheesh.

Posted by: dahoit | Feb 13 2014 16:21 utc | 58

@57 I checked-out the link; weirrd shit man! I suggest a quick study of "fourth generation warfare".

Posted by: bfrakes | Feb 13 2014 16:37 utc | 59

@57, 58

No this is just another instance of the 21st century U.S war strategy in which incessant/blatant lies and propaganda are coupled with incessant destabilization/color revolutions etc.

I and others have been searching for a name to really capture this American "fourth generation warfare" but nothing seemed to quite succinctly describe it. That is until I was sitting in my car today and I it came to me.

I - well, really the fascist American war criminals - give you : the SHITZKRIEG!!!!

On the propaganda front all you get is never-ending obvious nonsense horsesh!te coming out of the mouths of US leaders.

On the actual war front - read: independent sovereign nations that the US has decided to destroy/destabilize - you get never-ending shit-stirring by the US intelligence agencies and their paid mercenaries/domestic whores.

In either case it's shit as far as the eye can see and it is a deliberate strategy.

The SHITZKRIEG - coming to a country near you soon!!

Posted by: JSorrentine | Feb 13 2014 17:23 utc | 60

@ JSorrentine

SHITZKRIEG, brilliant and fitting name, will borrow it :)

Posted by: Harry | Feb 13 2014 17:31 utc | 61

As part of a campaign launched by Venezuela’s extreme right-wing opposition leaders, which they have called La Salida (The Ousting), groups of violent Venezuelan opposition thugs launched a wave of violent street disturbances in various parts of Venezuela on Wednesday 12 February. Tragically this has resulted in the death of at least two people with the authorities reporting that 23 people were also injured.
President Maduro has called the wave of opposition violence an attempt at a coup, after leading opposition leaders Leopoldo Lopez (a campaign manager for Henrique Capriles in the recent Presidential election) and María Corina Machado (a close George W Bush ally and signatory of the 2002 coup deceleration in Venezuela) among others, called on people to take to the streets to force “the exit” of the government. (See a video of Maduro here in English)
After the killing of two people yesterday (one a pro-government community leader and friend of President Maduro and one an opposition supporter), President Maduro drew analogies with the sniper fire against crowds of both government and opposition supporters in 2002 which was used as a pretext to justify the coup against Chavez (See video here in English).

Posted by: brian | Feb 13 2014 17:44 utc | 62

Ad Venezuela

Yet another case where left or right or other intellectual approaches fail.

There is just 3 things to do:

- get and bring forward proof for zusa remote controlling the "opposition" and show them to be what they are, traitors. Make it well known internationally.

- fight them. Physically. Kill the leaders like capriles. They are traitors and death is the penalty for treason. Incarcerate the rest of the agitators - but be sure to let go normal citizens who just have been lured to "demonstrations".
Have a spine and declare publicly, e.g. on TV, that demonstrations and legitimate opposition are a healthy and good thing but that agitators and traitors will be brought to court.
The same goes for the media; those just propagandizing for zusa should be closed and the criminals there should be put in jail.
Also open sth. like a monthly public discussion with the legitimate opposition. Be sure, the general population understand the difference between legitimate opposition and traitors.

- make all zamericans (and other western goons) leave the country. Recall your ambassador and tell the zusa ambassador to pack. Buy all shares held by zamerican, zuk, french corporations for fair prices and tell them to pack, too.
Do not make the mistake to think you can do what Russia can do; you can't. You can't, for instance, tolerate zamerican shareholders or joint ventures in your oil companies because you don't have the standing or the mil. muscle Russia has.
Be sure to have some dirty nuclear material somewhere in zusa, zuk, france and let them discreetly know that attacking your country militarily will be suicidal. As a backup, secretly arrange for a team to discreetly place bombs to destroy e.g. major internet connections such as those between ny and chicago and major railway points like critical, difficult to repair bridges. Don't bother for landmarks, stock exchanges and other well guarded targets; focus on unprotectable targets in the hinterland that are, however, vital. Have multiple options. If they send their army, have one of them destroyed to send a signal - do not forget that wars have price tags; making them excessively expensive for you enemy makes them highly unattractive.

And, of course, strenghten ALBA and your ties to Russia and China.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 13 2014 17:55 utc | 63

The events in Venezuela are extremely dangerous.

My prayers are with the good people of Venezuela. Make no mistake though - they do not need them. The people of Venezuela will not accept another fascist coup in their country.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 13 2014 18:47 utc | 64

The good people of Venezuela are just that, people. And so they can be manipulated like everyone if only propaganda can be applied to the long enough.

That's why it's so important to a) stop any kind of propaganda and b) make it known and clear to traitors and mind benders that they won't be tolerated.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Feb 13 2014 19:40 utc | 65

so its OK to support a foreign insurgency? then syrians can back insurgents in france
at 4:14...the SNC see themselves as the 'syrian people'? the syrian people dont see themselves as the SNC ...

Posted by: brian | Feb 14 2014 1:11 utc | 66

@65 You are right, but I don't think there few countries on earth that have been so focused on the political development of their people. Venezuela is fighting on the front lines of the 4th Generation War, and they know it.

Posted by: guest77 | Feb 14 2014 3:46 utc | 67

A video by the not-so-Syrian rebels about their recently failed attack on the Central Prison near Aleppo, Syria. The AQ commander is a Chechen, he speaks Russian. The attack thus starts with a propaganda talk apparently addressed to those who are competent in the Russian language. The video also shows beyond any doubt that Chechens and other foreigners are calling the shots and have commanding authority over the so-called "Syrian" militant opposition on the ground in Syria. The suicide driver who tried to drive a truck full of explosives into the compound was a Brit. He exploded on his way when he was hit by an RPG.

Posted by: brian | Feb 14 2014 17:21 utc | 68

Geneva/Montreux under the table, Haytham Manna, without the MSM distortions

Terrorists practices in Aleppo

Posted by: Mina | Feb 14 2014 18:00 utc | 69

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