Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 30, 2013

Bandar's Threat Comes True - Russia Will Respond

August 2013: Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria

As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord. “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” he allegedly said.

December 2013: Second Blast Hits Russia, Raising Olympic Fears

A deadly suicide bombing at a crowded railroad station in southern Russia on Sunday, followed by a blast in a trolley bus on Monday in the same city, raised the specter of a new wave of terrorism just six weeks before the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

President Vladimir V. Putin’s government has worked to protect the Olympics with some of the most extensive security measures ever imposed for the Games. But the bombings, in Volgograd, underscored the threat the country faces from a radical Islamic insurgency in the North Caucasus that has periodically spilled into the Russian heartland, with deadly results, including several recent attacks.

One doesn't attack Stalingrad without receiving a blowback. The Russian security forces will have an immediate harsh response on the local level. There will be pressure on Putin to also directly respond towards Saudi Arabia. Russia will feel the need to set a precedence. The response will therefore likely come, though probably delayed, in a rather spectacular form.

Posted by b on December 30, 2013 at 10:39 UTC | Permalink

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The key word in your quote is "allegedly". It is highly unlikely Bandar took responsibility for any terrorist attack that might happen.
We know from London court papers that what he says is along the lines "we will cooperate on fighting terrorism with you"

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 10:51 utc | 1

"Russia will feel the need to set a precedence. The response will therefore likely come, though probably delayed, in a rather spectacular form."

Yes. I agree. But I've always found it difficult to second-guess that delightful phenomenon known as Russian humour. But it's always worth waiting for and it never disappoints...
Although Prince Bandar and Mr Hopey Changey probably won't think so.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 30 2013 10:56 utc | 2

But the russian officials, who leaked the quote wanted Bandar to understand how they understood him.

Posted by: Peter Hofmann | Dec 30 2013 11:27 utc | 3

The Russian Empire is not worried about KSA - they are worried about this

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law would make spreading separatist views a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail. Under the law submitted to the Russian State Duma by the Communist Party, people will face a fine of up to 300,000 rubles ($9,200) for calling for action aimed against Russia’s territorial integrity.

Lawmakers said the legislation was an effort to curb increasing public support for the idea of relinquishing mainly Muslim territories in the restive North Caucasus.

Experts, however, criticized the measure for distracting attention from more serious problems in Russian society.

A good analysis how Putin's executive powers grew by the necessity of counterterrorism can be found here.

It also details Russia's - complex - policy towards KSA, Turkey and Iran - Turkey and Iran have been in a better position to destabilize North Caucasus than KSA.

"Fighting terrorism" is not just a US ruling technique - it is modern policy 1x1.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 11:42 utc | 4

Currently the U.S. and the Romanian government are negotiating the deployment about 3 thousand representatives of the terrorist organization “Mojahedin-e Khalq” (MEK) on the territory of Romania.

with terrorists bombing russia, US moves more into the region?

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 12:07 utc | 5

Note, that the Children's Khorovod fountain and statue is located right in front of the entrance to the Volgograd Railway Station.

Fountain symbolic of Stalingrad battle restored for 70th anniversary
The Children’s Dance fountain, an iconic photo of which became a symbol of the destructive Battle of Stalingrad, is back in its place in the Russian city of Volgograd. It marks 71 years since the beginning of WWII’s bloodiest and longest standoff.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 30 2013 13:00 utc | 6

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 2h
The fascist "liberals" that denounce @WikiLeaksParty for showing solidarity with the Syrian people's representative are the plebs of Empire.

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 2h
Predictably, Orientalist "liberals" are berating @WikiLeaksParty for showing solidarity with the representative of millions of Syrians.

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 2h
@antloewenstein & adding caveat "along with many rebels" is a cowardly attempt to sit on the fence. (3rd way opportunism). @WikiLeaksParty

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 2h
@antloewenstein "Sad" to see so-called "leftists" tow the demonisation line like the last 20 years of western agitprop passed them by.

Phil Greaves ‏@PhilGreaves01 2h
@antloewenstein So the majority of Syrians that support their govt should follow your advice? Why do you know better? WikiLeaksParty

(limits of Loewenstein)

Phil Greaves ‏@PhilGreaves01 4h
Wikileaks Party delegation with President Assad: & reasons why they chose to show solidarity: …

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 13:04 utc | 7

The three terrorist, killer b's need to be indicted. And Graham Fuller, the CIA godfather of al Qaeda, needs to be indicted for bringing the Tsarnaevs to the USA for indoctrination and training as well. Once the Tsarnaev boys got the drift of how things actually stood it was boom-boom in Boston instead of in Chechnya.

Terrorism, like charity, begins at home. Apparently.

Posted by: john francis lee | Dec 30 2013 13:22 utc | 8

If KSA (either directly or indirectly by turning a blind eye) is capable of doing that in Russia, then what does the 'future' portend for the United States? After all, doesn't KSA feel that the US turned its back on them in a similar manner?

Posted by: Maracatu | Dec 30 2013 13:31 utc | 10

A couple of things strike me about the way Bernhard has expressed himself in the post. First, there is an increased willingness to hold Bandar (ie the KSA) directly responsible for what all the various Chechen etc Mujahidin get up to (and by the way, I think it's worth trying to keep track of the proportion of suicide vs non-suicide attacks, because recruiting suicides is a whole nightmare dimension in itself); the other thing is, the dimension within which Russian retaliation could take place. By 'dimension' in each case I mean mode of operation: military, paramilitary, financial, diplomatic, all sorts of possible mixes. Bernhard sensibly doesn't speculate on this. My first response is to try to put this within its global context. There are two levels of deniability superimposed in whatever Bandar's irregulars do: first, the internal deniability of the KSA vis-a-vis these irregulars, and second, the deniability of the US (and in particular the CIA) vis-a-vis whatever KSA does. KSA on at least one occasion (though it was 17 years ago) used AQ to attack a US target within KSA itself, then blame Iran for it: I'm talking about the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing. I can remember when this was a dog-whistle for US Islamophobes comparable to the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing and certainly bigger than the 2012 Benghazi attack. By 'dog whistle' I mean that these events are played up to enormous symbolic and mass-psychological proportions by US media, and act as pivots for subsequent US foreign policy swerves.

My reading of the global situation is that AQ is now being managed by Bandar in Saudi on the basis of a somewhat unstable compromise, according to which the US increasingly openly but never quite formally or officially holds Saudi responsible for 9/11, while Saudi for its part never quite retorts that whatever it did in support of the 9/11 attack was in any case done under CIA instructions. This unstable compromise is the best the US, in the last days of its supposed global hegemony, can come up with, and its clients have to support it as best they can, even when as now they are asked to accept responsibility for 9/11 so as to save the US from its own truth. So in sum, we have these two levels of deniability, within which a great deal of mayhem can occur and Russia's ultimate recourse would be to blow the whistle on the entire foundational fraud of 9/11, but I don't think they will ever do that, because Putin in particular (and doubtless he is representative of the Russian grand bourgeoisie in general) has a notion of the necessary solidarity of 'great powers' which is quite delusory but which he (or they) could never abandon without becoming revolutionary anti-capitalists, which obviously cannot happen; the bourgeoisie as such will never transform itself into its own antithesis. And that's the weakness Bandar & Co can exploit: the delusory solidarity of 'great powers' on which Putin & Co are hooked.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 30 2013 13:36 utc | 11

Pavel Pechenkin, a member of the Buinaksk ring operating in Dagestan who was born in the town of Volzhsk in the Republic of Mari El, is suspected of the Volgograd railroad terminal bombing, a source from the law enforcement authorities said. He said Pechenkin joined the Dagestani militants in spring 2012. "Pavel's parents - Nikolai and Fanaziya - came to Dagestan in September 2013 and searched for him in the town of Buinaksk and the suburbs. The search was unsuccessful and they made a video address to their son, who had adopted the Islamic name of Ansar ar-Rusi. The parents failed to find their son and returned home," the source said.
Read more:

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 13:54 utc | 12

Anglo-Saudi axis of terror behind Volgograd bombings. Message to Russia regarding Syria, Iran etc. Londoninstan long harbored Islamic terror networks over official Russian protests. Brit media pumped Chechen terrorists over official Russian protests. Saudis #1 terror state in the world. Wahhabi ideology brainwashes desperate youth turning them into zombies.

Posted by: revenire | Dec 30 2013 14:05 utc | 13

KSA has long been sponsoring terrorism against Syria, Iraq, and Russia. Long past time for some harsh payback.

Posted by: Andoheb | Dec 30 2013 14:54 utc | 14

The reason the US is on the side of evil (KSA) is Israel. The absolute co-opting of our foreign policy as subservient to Israel's is the real issue here.

Posted by: evm | Dec 30 2013 14:54 utc | 15

The Graun in its well-nigh infinite hypocrisy chooses to treat Olympic spectacles as a game of moralistic musical chairs, in which by some uncanny coincidence, the music stops just before Russia gets the chance to sit down: "The Volgograd bombs are a warning over Olympic excess."

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 30 2013 14:58 utc | 16

Khodorkovsky crowd seeks political capital out of Volgograd bombing #shameful
Khodorkovsky Center ‏@mbk_center 12m
Putin's response to back-to-back #Volgograd bombings has been indifferent, but a slow fuse is burning. - @Bershidsky

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 15:05 utc | 17

a knockon effect is to embarrass saudi arabia and bandar;so far ive not seen a saudi response to thebombing

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 15:15 utc | 18

Thanks to RB @ 11 for an interesting speculation. The two very recent "terrorist attacks" in Russia certainly invite such speculation, but, of course, it is highly unlikely that we will be lucky enough to obtain solid evidence regarding the hidden hands behind those attacks. Even in the case of Graham Fuller and the Tsarnaevs it's not clear (to me) whether there was an unexpected initiative by Fuller's wards in Boston, or if they were merely manipulated and framed by other more mature and cynical operatives.
I suppose that the principle danger sites like MOA present to the powerful is the slim possibility that the speculation, reasoning, and evidence they present might enter into mainstream thought and reporting.

Here is a useful link which might serve in the effort to redeem this somewhat fulsome post, especially if someone takes the time and trouble to give some background on the site linked to. To me it is useful, but somewhat "fishy" in that the curator writes in such a way as to seem to be "on both sides".
That, however, may only be my take on his postings.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Dec 30 2013 15:28 utc | 19

Syricide ‏@Syricide 6h
#US #Russia comparison

#Volgograd #bomb victims r 2 b financially compensated
#Boston bomb victims had 2 claim health insurance 2 b treated

Posted by: brian | Dec 30 2013 16:07 utc | 20

Hannah, I'm quite sure they were framed. They were, as the jargon has it, 'patsies'. There are a welter of reasons for believing this, and I'm not thinking of trick photography, montage, video interpretation, video interpolation, or whatever they call it now, because I'm well aware that video evidence is the ultimate wilderness of mirrors. The welter of evidence I'm thinking of is uniformly negative, obviously: positive evidence would be a smoking gun, to return again to the jargon, and that is the one thing that the professional covert agencies are fully competent at not providing. But negative evidence can be conclusive, compelling, and really obvious to those not blinded by conditioned refusal to see, in the sense in which we say "I see" when in fact what we mean is we understand. This sort of seeing is actually more reliable than seeing visually, because the visual sense is utterly uncritical, a fact which TV exploits systematically, as when we say so idiotically that seeing is believing or even worse that the camera never lies. In fact, visual evidence is the easiest sort to fake.

Anyway the negative evidence that is cumulatively strong enough to be conclusive and compelling can be grouped as follows: (1) self-contradictory testimonies all simultaneously adopted by the govt case, comparable to saying, your kettle already had a hole in it when I borrowed it, but actually it didn't have a hole when I returned it, and anyway, I never borrowed it from you in the first place. (b) liquidation of both suspects and witnesses without independently plausible reason. (c) implausible confessions, direct or indirect, by suspects now dead, attempting to give body to supposed motives that are themselves nonsensical. (d) closed govt court to try or to hear crucial evidence regarding surviving suspects, attempting to minimise damage caused by the fact that damn suspects did not die when required by plot to do so. (e) drill paralleling supposed plot, causes large numbers of professionals to be on the spot and fully briefed up, not to mention equipped with 'dummy' charges for training exercise, diversion, substitution of real explosive charge, you get the picture.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 30 2013 16:09 utc | 21

meanwhile, the jihadists are perpetrating a bloodbath every other week in xinjiang.
whats the common thread to terrorism in russia n china ?
ask the Usual Suspects.

Posted by: denk | Dec 30 2013 17:22 utc | 22

11) Well, who paid for the attacks? No secret service can control what people are doing, but they can pay for certain acts. Any secret service can pay certain actors who depend on money for their cause. Or just for themselves.

The use of widows for suicide attacks culturally is on a par with burning them.

Quite likely spoiling the Sotchi olympics is a political act intended to make Russians lose their preference for empire and not a devilish Saudi plan. Umarov is in it for independence. Sure other actors can threaten to support him - or not, trying to get leverage over Russia. The support might not even be politically motivated - just sentimental (Islamic solidarity) As I remember Irish people in the US had a tendency to fund the IRA - that was not official US policy.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 17:53 utc | 23

No secret service can control what people are doing, but they can pay for certain acts.

Well in August, Bandar did say he controlled them. "The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us". In light of the double suicide bombings, that message is not exactly vague. As B summed it up in the title, Bandar made some threats to Russia and 6 months later they came true.

As far as I'm concerned the only mystery in this now, is what Russia's response will be. Wouldn't be suprised if Russia acts out through Syria, since that is the main theater for this Russian-Saudi conflict. Maybe send in Zaslon forces to assassinate Chechen fighters before they return to Russia. Or maybe give the Syrians a few more heavy weapons. But then again knowing Russia, I wouldn't be shocked if Bandar comes down with a dose of Radioactive Flu.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Dec 30 2013 18:28 utc | 24

24) We do not really know what Bandar and Putin talked about. We just have rumour and spin.

This here is a different spin - just as if not even more likely

The Russians were approached by the Egyptians in October 2013 to supply SS-25 ballistic missiles a range of 3,2,00 km (2,000 miles) and capable of reaching Iran.

It is, apparently, the Saudis who encouraged Egypt to bid for Russian armaments rather than from its traditional arms supplier the US.

The powerful Prince Bandar bin Sultan had previously discussed arms supplies with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Building such a new relationship would be a blow to US policy.

The Saudis in particular, and the Arabs in general, have three views when talking about Russia.

First, despite the fact that the Russians are seen protecting the Syrian regime with total support through thick and thin, this is paradoxically seen as a loyalty value which is rarely reflected in US policy.

Second, the Russians do not mind supporting authoritarian regimes which suits the Arabs.

Third, the Russian culture is seen as closer to that of the Middle East, and is consequently more understanding. Although the Arabs are close to the US, they have often whispered critically about US policy being unclear, unintelligible and failing most of the time in the Middle Eastern region.

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited Moscow on November 20 to lobby against the Iran deal. Israel has the same views as the Saudis on Egypt, Syria and Iran.

Russia would like a return to the Middle East. Today it only has one window - Syria - but it could easily open several doors.

Mr Putin is aiming to create an anti-American front to recover Russia’s international stature. We may witness several deals and agreements in the very near future between Russia and Egypt, sponsored by Saudi Arabia.

Moscow is likely to seize the opportunity to demonstrate it is the new strong player in the region.

Add to that the recent French Lebanon Saudi arms deal - and you get a pattern that makes sense. Saudi are hedging their patrons.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 18:47 utc | 25


We do not really know what Bandar and Putin talked about. We just have rumour and spin.

Well we have rumours, and we have spin, but we also have 2 suicide bombings just before the Sochi Games. And since one of those rumours, 6 months ago, concerned attacks on the Sochi Games and then they took place. It would lend credence to them. Sometimes if you can't trust a nations words, its best to look at their actions.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Dec 30 2013 19:36 utc | 26

I don't know whether it was the Saudis who sponsored the Volgograd attacks. If so, it was very foolish, unless well prepared.

A good proportion of the Saudi princes (the only people who count in Saudi) are scared of an active foreign policy. Their comfortable lives will be threatened. They will have to have been convinced that an existential threat exists. Even so Volgograd doesn't sound like an existential threat. Revolts are to be expected.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 30 2013 19:57 utc | 27

For mere mortals politics seems to go mysterious ways sometimes.

One of those riddles was the Sochi Olympics. The typical brain dead western "explanation" was Putins desire to show off ("Ya know how dey are, 'em dictators ...").
Factually, however, Putin is an almost astonishingly modest man and sure enough not eager to show off. But then, why in hell did he committ this second major idiocy (so it seems. His first idiocy being not having shot yelzin, his clanm, and his american "advisors")? Why and what for did Putin put Russia into such a sensitive and vulnerable situation, being forced to smile friendly when being insulted just to not endanger those f*cking games?

I think that we see phase 1, the start of a chain that will explain it. Gladly (yes gladly!) that zaudi arabian criminal bandar tried to blackmail Putin with the Sochi games and gladly, thanks to some coincidence bandars threat was leaked without Putin contradicting the leak. So there is a direct red line from ryad to chechnia/dagestan terrorists to Volgograd.

Sooner or later zusa just had to be kicked hard. But then, Russia, of course, wouldn't like to look like a party to start dirty things or even a war. Things would, of cource, be quite different, if Russia did act in self-defense and in an emotionally explosive situation - like now.

And it's a nice - and very, very smart - triplet. First, evidently, Putin will have a vast majority of Russians behind himself, when he sets hell loose in chechnia and dagestan, allowing him to cool down that troublesome piece of land once and for all. Next, you bet, one or more of the captured terrorists will confess that they were ordered and payed by zaudi bandar. And pretty everyone will believe it. Now, if one country sends killer commandoes to another country, that fully satisfies the international legal requirements for an act of war. So, in case you are a zaudi prince or a military officer, now would be a good time to relocate to, say, Antarctica. Is there anything, and I mean anything that could - and would - put itself in Russias way? hardly.
Third, Putin can kick zusas feet away (and create way more harm than would be needed to destroy the fragile zamerican system illusion) because with the house of zaud down and whaever new government (lmost guaranteed to be strongly anti-zamerican) the zus $ will go down.

As they say, zusa plays poker, while Russia plays checkers. And very brilliantly, too.

Ceterum censeo israel delendum esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Dec 30 2013 20:01 utc | 28

recently released: whoredovsky and 2 pussies.

now the 2 bombings.


Posted by: pluto | Dec 30 2013 20:04 utc | 29

"We do not really know what Bandar and Putin talked about. We just have rumour and spin."

No, no we have decades of Saudi-fomented terrorism worldwide and their very nasty disagreement with Russia over Syria (and Iran). That is what we have. Based on those facts we make an intelligence call.

Posted by: revenire | Dec 30 2013 20:09 utc | 30

@somebody, #25: you do pick the strangest sources. Let's look at the bio of the man who wrote the article you are quoting (which seems to imply right at the start that Saudi expect Egypt to fire Russian missiles at Iran!):

Dr Samir Nassif is Professor of Management and teaches leadership at the Executive and Master level. He has a special passion for geopolitics, and has taught courses on the 'Middle East crisis' over the last 25 years. Dr Nassif is a former Provost and Dean of the American-European University in Monaco (1993 – 2001), and President of the Centre for Research and Development in Monaco (1996 – 2000). He has directed more than 100 theses and chaired panels for 200 theses. Dr Nassif had some 20 years experience as a general manager in the field of large construction projects prior to joining academia. He has worked in the United Kingdom, France, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Monaco and has benefited from exposure to a broad international culture. After completing his engineering studies at the St Joseph University - Ecole Centrale de Lyon, Dr Nassif took a Master of Science at the American University of Beirut before awarded his PhD at the University of Salford in the UK. Dr Nassif joined the International Coach Federation (ICF) in 2003 and earned a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) credential. He is a graduate of the International Coach Academy (ICA). His field of expertise is training and coaching executives and leaders. On a personal level, Dr Nassif actively participates in social organisations including the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre, a committee of bioethics, the Board of Administration of the Scouts of Monaco, the Christian Leaders and Entrepreneurs, and has been President of Radio Maria France for five years.

This is not the kind of man I'd gladly go to bed with, personally.


Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 30 2013 20:31 utc | 31

We can put it this way - there is more logical connection of Saudi-Chechens terror than US had in 9/11 against Taliban. US had no evidence whatsoever (nor found any later), just fake accusations, which were used as a pretext for wars already planed beforehand.

Naturally, I dont think Russia would go US way about it, so there wont be a real war against Saudis. I'm curious what Putin will do, in my mind it ranges from clandestine retaliation, to more support for Syria/Iran to undermine Saudis further, or... nothing. The later would be disappointing to say the least, but resistance axis is doing just that for years now. Fat neo-nazi sheiks think they are untouchables, and nothing is done to prove otherwise.

Posted by: Harry | Dec 30 2013 20:32 utc | 32

We also have this guy - his threat was very public in July and we know about it.

Or if you prefer Voice of Russia - they report the same guy and his threat

In 2012 this guy - Umarov - held a conference in NATO Turkey.

May 2012 was probably thought of as an exceptional month as the North Caucasian jihadists planned an event that would illuminate the unity of the Muslims in the North Caucasus. On May 13, 2012, a seminar took place in Istanbul that changed its title several times over the past several weeks. Information about plans to hold an international conference at the University of the Fatih district in Istanbul first appeared on the Internet. The Fatih district is known to be the home to various Muslim organizations and committees that help the North Caucasians in their struggle against Russia. The event was dubbed the “Conference of Caucasian Diasporas,” but on its first day, the event was renamed the “Caucasian Congress” ( Turkish organization Imkander, which positions itself as a humanitarian and human rights-oriented institution, assisted in the preparations for the conference (

In fact, the title “Conference of Caucasus Diasporas” would have been the most appropriate option since the event’s participants were made up of Caucasus Emirate supporters. There were far fewer than the stated “450 delegates” present at the conference; counting women and children who came to the conference, as the jihadi websites did, was misleading. Yet, the importance of this event did not depend on how many people attended. Even if there had been only a couple dozen participants, it would still have been noteworthy since it was the first conference of its kind to be organized by the Caucasus Emirate and held abroad. The conference was designed to show the unified support of the Caucasus diasporas for the Caucasus Emirate and recognize its leader, Doku Umarov, as the only legitimate authority in the North Caucasus. All of the speakers at the conference expressed support for the Caucasus Emirate and its leader.

Above sympathetic reporting by the Jamestown foundation. Turkey is the logical place - most of the Caucasian Diaspora live there. US interest in anything that could destabilize Russia is logical also. Saudi Arabia has no reason to be there except giving the US a helping hand.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 20:41 utc | 33

It sounds like Sochi was a mistake for the Winter Games. Too near to the revolting Muslim world.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 30 2013 20:43 utc | 34


A pre-olympic attack?

Posted by: cloned_poster | Dec 30 2013 21:04 utc | 35

meanwhile, the jihadists are perpetrating a bloodbath every other week in xinjiang. whats the common thread to terrorism in russia n china?
In this case, anti-colonialism. There's no reason for the Chinese to dominate xinjiang other than a colonial motive, derived from the past. The Uighurs resist, but I don't have much hope for them. I'd be all in favour of a Uighur independence movement.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 30 2013 21:27 utc | 36

36) That is true in theory. In practice, history - ok colonial history - has mixed people. So any ethnic fight means driving neighbours out of their homes (best case), killing them if they do not want to leave (worst case), or splitting families as people have mixed everywhere. There is no going back in history without new injustice. The only possible fight is for equal rights for everyone and for the preservation of cultural identity - though the last one is a difficult one, as obviously cultures keep naturally adapting and changing.
In practice, also, Xingjang would not be economically viable on its own. So there would be no real advantage for their citizens. I don't know anyone who profited from the split up of Yougoslavia except the politicians who suddenly had a lot more job chances to be president.
Same applies to Caucasus. To fight for ethnic independence in a completely mixed region is the recipe for desaster for everyone.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 30 2013 21:45 utc | 37

re 37

To fight for ethnic independence in a completely mixed region is the recipe for desaster for everyone.
The 'mixed' population is Han from China. Neighbouring Kazakhstan, with a majority of Russians, succeeded its transition into a Kazakh state.

I don't suppose for a moment that the Chinese are willing to let go Xingjiang, but I don't agree that it wouldn't work as an independent state.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 30 2013 22:39 utc | 38

@ Alexno

I support every anti-colonialist movement there is in the world, but the Uighur's attempt to create an independent "East Turkistan" is not one of them.

Firstly the province of Xingjang has been ruled by China going back 2,000 years to the Han Dynasty, sometimes it was broken off from China (like when China split into 10 Kingdoms around the year 900-960) Or when the Mongol Empire seized the area for a few hundred years, but apart from that it has pretty much always been part of China these last 2,000 years. The only time in the regions history when "East Turkistan" existed as a state was in the 1820's and then it only lasted a 2 or 3 years.

Secondly the Uighur's are only 45% of the population of Xingjang and many of those Uighur's don't support this independence movement. This says nothing for the 40% of the population that's Han Chinese or the remaining 15% thats Mongol or Kazakh.

The claim of colonialism in the province is just something used to weaken China. China has gone to great effort to give the Uighur population rights that other Chinese don't even have (the one child policy for instance didn't apply to Uighur's), economic development in Xingjang outpaced most other provinces due to investment, and practicing Islam is open, while Christianity in most of China is basically underground.

Xingjangs main problem is that it has a massive border that can't be monitored. With a close proximity to Afghanistan and several other of the 'Stans, all with a heavy jihadist trend making it vulnerable to penetration.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Dec 30 2013 23:13 utc | 39

Necessary reading: first assessment of the bombings by the Saker

Posted by: Headache | Dec 30 2013 23:16 utc | 40

@ Headache

That was the best piece on the bombings I've read yet. Definately a necessary read. However cause of the blogspot system they might need to get onto the page via a google search for The Vineyard Saker rather than the link which changes country to country.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Dec 30 2013 23:50 utc | 41

back in 2009, russian oligarch Berezovsky was funding chechen terrorists:

Boris Berezovsky encouraged Chechen warlords Shamil Basayev and Salman Raduyev to kidnap people so that Berezovsky could finance them by paying ransoms, claims Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov.

In an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, the Chechen leader said he personally witnessed the agreement.

“He couldn’t just give money to the militants, so he invented this mechanism. In my presence, Berezovsky suggested to Raduyev and Basayev: ‘Capture people and I’ll ransom them. I’ll get good publicity and you’ll get money.’ He paid millions of dollars to Basayev,” Ramzan Kadyrov said.

During the time in question, 1996-97, Berezovsky was deputy head of Russia’s Security Council, and negotiated the release of hostages captured in Chechnya. This became a profitable business for rampaging warlords in the de facto independent republic.

Both Basayev and Raduyev held posts in the Chechen government under President Aslan Maskhadov.

Aleksandr Korzhakov, the former head of Kremlin security, says he believes Kadyrov’s statements 100 per cent.

“In fact, I'm sure there isn't a person in Russia who does not believe this idea. We've had statements from the people who were kidnapped during the wars. And their stories only support the claim,” Korzhakov said.

Many people seem certain of Berezovsky's guilt, but what does that change?

“This changes nothing,” says State Duma Deputy Aleksandr Khinshtein. “He can't be charged with anything, he was never directly involved in the kidnappings. Yes, there are witness statements – but they aren't supported by any evidence. It would be the same as if he, for example, accused me of being involved in the kidnappings. And even though we are certain of his guilt – there is no way of charging him with it.”

Kadyrov also said he believed Berezovsky was behind the killing of journalist Anna Politkovskaya. She was exposing crimes in the Chechen republic.

“We would need Politkovskaya today to show what she used to say, and what there is now. People arrive and walk freely around Grozny. A normal life! How could our enemies use Politkovskaya effectively? By killing her. Who did it? Berezovsky, I believe.”

The official investigation into the murder of the journalist never revealed who ordered it. Four men were tried for doing the killing, but were found not guilty by the jury. Russian prosecutors are now revising the case.

According to Kadyrov, 'Berezovsky and the likes of him’ have drawn Chechnya into two bloody conflicts to cripple and dissolve Russia.

“The people doing world politics chose our republic because they knew us: our strength, courage, spirituality… In the first and the second campaigns, they used us as a tool, dragged us into this war. The White House said: take sovereignty. They armed us and used us against the sovereign state of Russia,” Kadyrov said.

Boris Berezovsky is a Russian tycoon living in exile in London. He was an influential figure in the late 1990s and held several public positions.

He has been sentenced in absentia to a 6 year term in Russia for fraud and money laundering. He was also charged with planning a coup after publically admitting ‘working’ on a forced change of regime in Russia in 2007.

But Berezovsky has political asylum in the UK and London has repeatedly refused Russia’s extradition requests.

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 0:12 utc | 42


Yes, that's the best response on the net so far. Highly recommended for others.

Posted by: bingerlot | Dec 31 2013 0:17 utc | 43

converts are the most dangerous: they have the most zeal, ad if they are converted to a belligerent cult...
'The October blast was blamed on a Daghestani woman who had reportedly converted to Islam after marrying a North Caucasus insurgent leader and explosives expert.'

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 0:24 utc | 44

making headlines:
ABC will cover this story tonight

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 0:31 utc | 45

guess who has refused extradition requests???....give up?



But Berezovsky has political asylum in the UK and London has repeatedly refused Russia’s extradition requests.

in weak of Volgograd attacks, worth a revisit!

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 0:40 utc | 46

There is a simple and effective solution.

A) Tell them (in Dagestan) that each time a terror attack happens, the complete family of the terrorists will be beaten to death, incl. women, children (12+. Younger children will be put in state custody).
Also tell the zaudis that after each terror attack 3 of their princes will be captured and beaten to death and one state/kingdom building exploded.

B) To make them understand how serious you are, go ahead and kill the families of 5 former (and now dead) terrorists and 15 zaudi princes.

C) Dry their environment and particularly their support. Make it known that everyone giving information on the terrorists will get a nice sum of money - and - that everyone supporting them, no matter how, and be it just selling them bread, will have both arms broken; those providing more profound help like offering rooms/houses, arranging for weapons or transportation, will get both arm and both legs broken and his business or house burnt down.

Why? Because laws, order and the civilized state are considered as weakness by them. Because they think and act in terms of force and brutality. They may not care about their lives but they will care about their brothers, sisters, parents, children.

D) Be prepared for an initial period of anger and uprising and be ready to put it down with utmost severity.

Within 3 months there will be no more terror attacks. Within 1 year you will have get hold of all yet uncaptured tarrorists and know details and have evidence against them. Publicly beat them to death painfully, with utmost brutality and shockingly, and have the videos shown in Dagestan TV.

E) Invest heavily so as to provide a solid base for a civilized state, education, jobs, etc.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Dec 31 2013 1:03 utc | 47

There's a lot to be said for Russia delaying any overt response.
Nothing chews up more psychological energy, in guilty parties, than waiting for the sky to fall and trying to anticipate the manner and the timing.
Considering how much of their own bullshit the anti-Russia ideologues believe, the waiting could become more stressful than the actual event(s).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 31 2013 3:16 utc | 48

Mr P, with ideas like that, you should be working for the USA.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 31 2013 3:20 utc | 49

Thanks @43 for the link on the background on the Wahhabi Islam, Russia and the Stalingrad bombings. Mass Media is an utter failure. In my old age, propaganda and marketing reign; only web sites like this offer a chance to make sense of the ongoing collapse of Western Civilization.

It isn’t as if the way to turn the world around is unknown: Push Free Education, Quarantine Violence, Jail Law Breakers, Provide jobs for the Young, Halt Climate Change and Tax the Rich to pay for it.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Dec 31 2013 3:57 utc | 50

Dagestan Palestine egypt and syria meet in this radical conservative religious movement

Goals, methods, and organization

Hizb ut-Tahrir states its aim as unification of all Muslim nations over time in a unitary Islamic state or caliphate, headed by an elected caliph.[1] This, it holds, is a religious duty, "an obligation that Allah has decreed for the Muslims and commanded them to fulfill. He warned of the punishment awaiting those who neglect this duty."[8] One analyst, however,[9] quotes the work of Hizb ut-Tahrir founder Taqiuddin al-Nabhani[10] to suggest that once Hizb ut-Tahrir has succeeded in creating a unified, transnational Islamic state it should press on to expand the state into non-Muslim areas. According to al-Nabhani's work The Islamic State, Muslims abroad `should work towards turning their land where Islam is not implemented, and which [is thus] considered as Dar al-Kufr, into Dar al-Islam".[11] Hizb ut-Tahrir is opposed to individual liberty and freedom, rather it promotes the overthrow, both democratically or militarily, of democracies and dictatorships alike, arguing they are un-Islamic.[

In Hizb ut-Tahrir's draft constitution for its unified Islamic state, any non-Muslims living in the state may not serve in any of the ruling offices, such as the position of caliph, nor vote for these officials, as these positions require those who fulfil them to believe in the system. Muslims also have "the right to participate in the election of the Khaleefah [head of state] and in giving him the pledge (ba'iah). Non-Muslims have no right in this regard." However non-Muslims may voice "complaints in respect to unjust acts performed by the rulers or the misapplication of Islam upon them."
this group has as its ultimate goal a world wide caliphate....why think small?

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 4:12 utc | 51


Egads, man, I had no idea you were related to Idi Amin.

Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Dec 31 2013 5:03 utc | 52

Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation) with its smarmy ways sees itself as establishing the universal caliphate, whether the rest of us like it or not...#verydangerous

'What comes after the Syrian regime then? The leadership of Hizb ut-Tahrir seems certain that the regime will fall and an Islamic Caliphate state will emerge. Baba believes that the regime has lost its power. “Its extreme violence and the use of military power are nothing but an announcement of the end.” The party was not surprised by the degree of violence, “but by the high spirits of the people and the mujahedeen.”

Hizb ut-Tahrir “is not a religious party but a political party and the caliphate system is a political system,” Baba adds. “This system has restrictions that can not be violated whereas the democratic system has no restrictions.” Here, there is “hala and haram,” what is religiously permitted and what is religiously banned and that’s it.

Baba believes that the solution to the sectarian and confessional conflicts in Syria is the caliphate system, where there is no difference between Muslims – Sunni and Shias.'
read carefully, it can be seen that the fall of Assad would open syria to a lot of conflicting religious (or as he says 'political') opportunists! Chaos would ensue

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 5:51 utc | 53

alexno 36

would u say cia is doing something *good* in xinjiang , chechen etc ?

Posted by: denk | Dec 31 2013 6:07 utc | 54

was it a suicide bomber? alleged Volgograd station security cam video of the explosion:
mike rivero at comments:
'Note that the explosion is coming down from the ceiling, contradicting the official story of a suicide bomber at the security gate!'

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 6:52 utc | 55

38) alexno, I checked Kazakhstan in Wikipedia - they would be fairly reliable in things like this I guess

63.1% Kazakh
23.6% Russian
2.8% Uzbek
2.9% Ukrainian
1.5% German
1.4% Uyghur
1.3% Tatar
4.3% others

History wise, they did not change systems but kept Nazarbayev as president who used to be Vice President of the Soviet Union. They seem to have become independent mainly to keep free from the upheaval in Moscow.

Not really an example of a successful multi-ethnic independence fight against an empire.

Xingjang according to Wikipedia

Uyghur – 43.3%
Han – 41%
Kazakh – 8.3%
Hui – 5%
Kyrgyz – 0.9%
Mongol – 0.8%
Dongxiang – 0.3%
Pamiris – 0.2%
Xibe – 0.2%

So you would recommend civil war to the people of Xingjang? You realize the costs of blood and treasure?

Let's check Syria, when we are at it - map of ethnicities

To support any ethnic or religious group in an "independence" fight in a context like that means the support of ethnic cleansing and murder. Like for example Yougoslavia

Posted by: somebody | Dec 31 2013 8:22 utc | 56

re 39

Firstly the province of Xingjang has been ruled by China going back 2,000 years to the Han Dynasty,

You've been reading too much the Chinese version of history. Virtually everything you say in that post is distorted.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 31 2013 9:03 utc | 57


Posted by: Peter Hofmann | Dec 31 2013 9:08 utc | 58

the death of socialism: once again proving wrong men may take the right way, and the right way becomes the wrong way

irish socialist workers party : clueless or malign? attack president Putin with tweets
SWP Ireland @IrelandSWP 13m
Putins reign of terror produces suicide attacks. #chechnya #volgograd..
this is a level of nastiness even Netanyahu didnt stoop to

now who do SWP want to be president of Russia? Khodokovsky?

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 9:12 utc | 59

re 56

I checked Kazakhstan in Wikipedia - they would be fairly reliable in things like this I guess

The figures you give are present-day. It was not like that at the time of independence. the figure then was around 40% Kazakhs. Many Russians have left; all the Germans, except a few. Also the figures are from Kazakh sources.

They seem to have become independent mainly to keep free from the upheaval in Moscow.

They didn't choose to become independent. Moscow let all the republics go.

Xingjang according to Wikipedia

Uyghur – 43.3%
Han – 41%

That's precisely the point - the Chinese have been steadily importing Han, such that the situation is now as Kazakhstan was. Well, things can change, as they did in Kazakhstan.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 31 2013 9:14 utc | 60

57) You would not mean the Uighur empire and state from the 8th to the 9th century by any chance? If that is your point of reference for historical claims I will use my Germanic heritage to claim property in Italy :-))

Posted by: somebody | Dec 31 2013 9:20 utc | 61

alexno 60

each time the muricuns stirred up ethnic violence to demonise n destabilise a country, such as ex yugo, libya, syria, myanmar, iran , iran, china, russia etc.
there will be *progressives* who claim this time uncle sham is doing the *right* stuff , even tho it has committed heinous crimes before !

with *progressives* like this, who needs the nyt n war street journal ?

Posted by: denk | Dec 31 2013 9:45 utc | 62

60) That is what the whole of the Ottoman empire did - strategically settling ethnicities and religions.

What is your argument here? You suggest people should be forced to tick an ethnic box and be moved accordingly where that ethnicity settled in - which century?

Well, things can change, as they did in Kazakhstan.

Yep, like in Germany. Yes, I know that sentence has an ominous ring to it.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 31 2013 10:35 utc | 63

Posted by: alexno | Dec 31, 2013 4:14:21 AM | 60

Kazakhs have been poaching russian tennis players

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 12:25 utc | 64

CONNECT the dots, folks. The Saudi's desire to get America to bomb the Syrian regime is so that they can challenge the Russian's natural gas monopoly in Europe, but only if they can get their pipes up to Europe through pesky Assad's Syria. So the bombings are an attempt to weaken Putin, and by association, Syria. This ain't about Islam, except to the poor rubes who blow themselves up. It's about something far more nefarious than religion. It's about money and power.

Just connect the dots, and truth will emerge.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31 2013 12:49 utc | 65

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31, 2013 7:49:06 AM | 65

its syrian government....not 'regime'

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 13:42 utc | 66

strange noone has come forward to claim responsibilty for the Volgograd bombings

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 13:49 utc | 67


The Saudis warned Putin that if he didn't play-ball on Syria, they could expect a rash of terrorist attacks just before the Olympics.

Saudi Arabia is the center for evil on the Earth.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31 2013 14:04 utc | 68

the center for evil is in the human heart

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 14:05 utc | 69

@ #47

you obviously coming out from this category, One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows.

"Among religious groups, white evangelical Protestants topped the list of those rejecting evolution, with 64 percent of those polled saying they believe humans have existed in their present form since the beginning of time.

"This has been a staple of evangelical Protestantism for nearly 100 years," said Alan Lichtman, an American University history professor and author of "White Protestant Nation: The Rise of the American Conservative Movement.""

he, he, he
"...since the beginning of time", I wonder do WASPs have a concept of this? And 1/3rd is joke as well, it is double of that. Whenever I read a statistics data I multiply it by two; inflation, unemployment, etc.

The pathology and racism of the WASP's society, and for that matter of the Western civilization, has been shown here, in this post, whereby the poster counting ethnic groups maps and posting a charts, statistics, what not.

Aren't you all Little Eichmanns?

Posted by: neretva'43 | Dec 31 2013 14:09 utc | 70

Those who accepts evolution are, must be, a communists!? :)

Posted by: neretva'43 | Dec 31 2013 14:16 utc | 71

14:17 GMT: A video showing Sunday’s blast inside the Volgograd railway station has been published online by LifeNews TV channel. The 16-second CCTV footage shows an unrecognizable man in dark outfit approaching and then trying to go through the metal detector. The next moment a bomb went off.

A total of 17 people were killed in the blast, at least 44 were injured.

13:43 GMT: The Spiritual Administration of Muslims in Moscow has launched a fundraiser to collect money for the families of the bombing victims.

“Moscow Mufti Ildar Alyautdinov has personally donated 50,000 rub ($1,520),” the Administration press-service told RIA Novosti.

Volunteers from Moscow’s Spiritual Administration of Muslims are planning to go to Volgograd “to provide help and moral support”, the Administration said. In Moscow there will be organized visits to hospitals and blood donor stations if needed.

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 14:24 utc | 72

46: "guess who has refused extradition requests???....give up?
UK! in weak of Volgograd attacks, worth a revisit!"

Presently far greater powers than perfidious Albion refuse his
extradition: the man was murdered a while ago.

Posted by: sasha | Dec 31 2013 14:50 utc | 73

#69 "the center for evil is in the human heart"

The human heart is "shaped" by socio-political system where an individual lives in, nothing new here. It is not accident that 25% of prison population is in the US - thus the nation is very violent one.

This is one, an open one, of aspects of the Wasp's society. Many other forms of violence are hidden from the eyes of the bamboozled nation. That hidden violence is legislated in forms of the bill and the laws promulgated by the legislators. Mind and behavior control has been perfected by the WASPs.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Dec 31 2013 14:56 utc | 74

Late on the heels of this specious analysis, let me add a "Happy New Year" to my favourite conspiracy theorist website. MoA is Prison Planet for the reading class.

The key statement (paraphrased) is "leaked to the Russian Press and eventually published also in Hezbulloh press."

The ability of people to believe the benders they enjoy and then to disbelieve the ones with which they disagree is truly sinful. Its a lobotomisation of whatever useful viewpoint this site might otherwise add to the international discussion, for whatever that discussion is worth.

From my perspective, the nature of the Bandar-Putin meeting wrt "doing business" is the actual significance the reading class should obtain. The rather strained effort to tie Saudi Arabia into the bombings (thus absolving Putin's pragmatic neo-conservate realpolitik, as usual) is so goofy it doesn't even matter whether it is true or not. And of course, there is no truth that will satisfy the reading class except the one which they have already pre-determined anyway.

The fact is, blowback is a mutual game from which neither the goose nor the gander can escape having its pretty feathers ruffled.

Posted by: donkeytale | Dec 31 2013 15:16 utc | 75

"Bandar's Threat Comes True - Russia Will Respond"

For some, if not majority, this headline makes sense, it seemingly connecting a dots.

Lenin said: "The problem is always at home". By reading the news, in this instance, I did not notice that the Russians are looking for a causes outside of its borders. Nor, I've ever believed that such threat was uttered. However Russia, unfortunately, is showing all signs of the Western traits: extreme nationalism, xenophobia, populism. The mayor of Moscow is an exemplar of the Russian's internal/external strivings. Inevitable characteristics of the so-called liberal-capitalist-democracy? Yes, definitely.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Dec 31 2013 15:22 utc | 76

Colm O' Toole@24,

The Saudis are arrogant. Besides, there are no bears in the desert, so they won't know that poking one only works for a little while, especially in the winter.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31 2013 16:15 utc | 77

Revenire @30,

Look, we all know Saudi money funds these bombings. It's quite simple. Every time there is a bombing, the Russians should liquidate one of the members of the House of Saud on vacation, like sink one of their megayachts or something, or shoot down one of their big planes, etc. The point would be well taken and you will see the bombings stop. SIMPLE.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 31 2013 16:21 utc | 78

The posters here overlooked one important fact -- the fact that Russia and its predecessor, the USSR, forcibly occupied countries from Estonia, to the Ukraine, to Georgia to Uzbekistan, and more. The are still occupying Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia. None of these countries have forgotten the tender ministrations of that occupation. Caucasus suffered more than most. The Russian occupation there is perfectly described by our resident Russian poster in post no. 47. Read Anna Politkovskaya, for starters. This is exactly what she describes the Russians doing.. Since Russia does not allow journalists into the Caucasus, it is hard to gauge Russia's actions there today. If Bandar Bush offers the Chechens et al money to attack Russia, they will happily take it. They would have done it free.
I live in the Baltics. The fact that the Baltics prefers NATO is not because we love America. It is because we remember the atrocities of the USSR Russians just do not seem to realize how much they were, and in some quarters still are, hated. Because their actions were indeed close enough to pat no 47.

Posted by: kassandra | Dec 31 2013 16:32 utc | 79

Cynthia @ 65: "It's about something far more nefarious than religion. It's about money and power."

Yep, the rich and greedy have used the religious idiots as tools through out history, as means to an end.

@ 47: LOL, but, the sociopathic side of my nature, thinks that approach would work.

Posted by: ben | Dec 31 2013 16:35 utc | 80

Holy Sickening Stench of Hasbara Deflection and Narrative Building in some of the posts here, Batman!!!

Why, it now looks downright "coincidental" once again that right on the heels of KSA making the rounds again in regards 9/11 in the American press, we - after b's informative OP - are treated not with a close examination of the KSA-apartheid Israel axis of evil and how BOTH of these powers were neck-deep in Syria and every other bit of criminality in the ME over the last number of decades but now we have - according to some posters who've become very active again - the KSA telegraphing its evil punches for the world to see even though no one has claimed responsibility for the attacks. Yup, they just are soooo stupid that they can't control their own evil, right?

Remind me: which country recently took advantage of a bus bombing in another country that went unclaimed but which was used to create a narrative?

Remind me: in which Zionist occupied country did a blatantly false-flag "terrorist attack" occur at a major sporting event that created the narrative that the Chechens were on the warpath once again?

Remind me: which country's foreign policy profile - especially concerning Syria etc - has just slipped off the radar nearly completely in the Zionist US press and even on most astute blogs?

The answer to all of these questions my friends can be found when looking at the apartheid, genocidal state of Israel and which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone but when I read comments on a blog calling the KSA the center of evil on the planet and other such nonsense I get the feeling that a hasbara campaign is afoot.

Again, the Israel-KSA axis of evil is very alive and well and has been since at least 9/11 if not before so let's not forget about the Zionist scum, apartheid monsters and all around disgusting pieces of filth: the Israelis who - with the help of their bought off whores in the US government - continue to wage their own - often Western press-censored - end of this campaigns to turn the ME into a chaotic bloodbath over which they can better rule.

If there's evil taking place/roiling the Middle East, you can bet your @ss fascist apartheid Israel is neckdeep in it because in reading the annals of history it appears that Israel is ALWAYS involved especially when they are questions and shadings that aren't quite clear.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Dec 31 2013 17:01 utc | 81

@79 Kassandra...Atrocities is a strong word. Can you elaborate on your knowledge????

Posted by: georgeg | Dec 31 2013 17:23 utc | 82

Oh, and lest we forget, the Chatah murder last week. Oops, just another assassination that will roil things even more.

Gee, which country left fingerprints all over the Hariri assassination? Yeah, it's probably the Saudis.

See if you can find the word "Israel" in this UK Independent piece or any other major coverage of the event. Hint: you won't.

Nope, it's just those dirty Ah-rabs being dirty Ah-rabs I guess.


And which country is currently trying to get a bill passed in Congress with the aid of its traitorous PAC that would tie the hands of the POTUS if said country went to war with Iran?


Posted by: JSorrentine | Dec 31 2013 17:25 utc | 83

@ 81 JSorrentine

I don't think anyone here is overlooking the fact that Saudi Arabia and Israel are joined at the hip, and partners in choas. This thread is just focusing on Saudi Arabia, because it was Bandar who made the alleged threat to Russia, only for it to come true. My guess is that Saudi-Israel are using a dual track policy of spreading chaos. Israel is focusing on threatening Iran and sinking the American-Iran negotiations, while Saudi is focusing on taking out Iran's allies in Syria, Russia, Lebanon. Both have the same goal of sinking the Resistance Axis.

@ 79 Kassandra

I live in the Baltics. The fact that the Baltics prefers NATO is not because we love America. It is because we remember the atrocities of the USSR Russians just do not seem to realize how much they were, and in some quarters still are, hated.

That's a point which does often get overlooked. I know myself the problem of being a small country (Ireland) located next to a large power that has often invaded. I would argue that Chechyna, Dagestan and even Georgia are not like Estonia or Poland. The Eastern European states had a history of independence before the Russian takeover (like Estonia before the Russian Empire and Treaty of Nystad).

Chechyna, Georgia and Dagestan, I would class more as "breakaway provinces" than Independent States. But thats not to ignore the brutality of the crackdowns. If Chechyna and Dagestan broke away you would be looking at a threat of Russia as a state breaking apart, that was not something that Russia had to worry about with Estonia or other European States. Just my opinion.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Dec 31 2013 18:03 utc | 84

Seems to me that the Saudis are untouchable. No matter what they do, nothing seems to come back to them. The same seems to apply to Qatar. I agree there should be a Russian response. Bandar threatened them and this looks like the fulfillment of this threat. This could be just the beginning. There maybe more bombings on the way.

What about targeting the Saudi Oil Fields ? They look vulnerable to me. Perhaps go through a surrogate such as Iran to do it.

If there is no Russian response at all, they that will only embolden them further.

Posted by: James Sneller | Dec 31 2013 19:06 utc | 85


Being an American and thus extremely sensitive to the Zionist propaganda sphere I exist in, whenever I sense non-mentions of Israel in regards events in the ME and the creation of narratives that involve every "baddie" except them my spider-sense starts a tingling. That was the purpose of my post.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Dec 31 2013 19:13 utc | 86

Kassandra: geopolitical analysis should not be confused with popularity polling.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Dec 31 2013 19:14 utc | 87

Just to add my 2c to it all. Terrorist attacks in russia are nothing new, and an event like the olympics sure makes a nice target for just about every radical suicidal person in or outside of russia. So this might have been just about everyone, on direct or indirect order from Saudi or someone else. As far as i read, these explosions haven't had the power as eg the very massive ones in Damascus some time ago, means they may have been homemade bombs. One really can't tell. The notion of the bandar-leaks could also be, if true, just a coincidence. I'd bet there are more than only one terrorist group that has an interest in doing harm to russia at this time and I don't think "Bandar" controls every radical muslim on this planet...

Posted by: peter radiator | Dec 31 2013 19:33 utc | 88

3 points.

- ad 47/terrorism

Russia *has* understood that basic rights, international cooperation, etc. are the way to go - and they prove it by acting accordingly. And I agree wholeheartedly. To kill someone and even more so to kill someone presumably innocent for the large part like a relative of a terrorist is an extremely serious action that must not even be considered but in the most extreme of conditions.
However, just putting a cross in the "done" box because the (suicide) terrorist is dead basically comes down to an open invitation, to public weakness, to being an ideal candidate for blackmailing, and last but not least to bid a warm welcome to zio, zaudi and zusa scum.
And it directly translates to dozends of dead civilians who had every right to be protected by their state.

Therefore any and every means, preferably the most humane one available, of cause, is justified.

Any and everyone of you knowing a more humane - yet equally effective! - means to stop the "caucasian" terrorism can be sureI will listen closely to him.

- ad Russia occupying regions

Quite possibly, yes. And quite probably Russia would let e.g. dagestan go their own ways and maybe even handing them out some kind of start package - if only it was possible. It is not, however.
It is not possible because zio-nato BROKE every damn agreement, it is not possible because zio-nato amply proved that each and every region set free by Russia is immedetaly turned against them, weaponized, nato-ized, etc.
I don't know so well for China but I suppose that China would principly be open to more favourable solutions concerning e.g. the Uigurs, too - IF and when zusa and israel are broken.
Now, maybe the polish aren't the nicest example because they traditionally bend over eagerly for whoever happens to be the authority of the week. But just have a look. Now -against written and signed treaties!- the polish are fervant supporters of zato, zusa, zeu, and they are happily hosting zusa missiles against Russia, and they are behaving Herrenmenschen-like in Ukraine.

So, for the time being, dagestan et al. can live as well as possible but, absolutely no discussion about that, within Russia. Period. One sak-ass-wily, one georgia was enough.

- 3, general

It's nice to sit in a comfy chair and be an intellectual with golden and heroic ideals. In the real world out there, however, millions and millions had to die for zusa scum, and hundreds of millions are subdued and brutally punished for disobedience.

Russia, in particular, Russia with Putin is the one power to stop zusa, zato, izrael and their minions and dogs. China quite probably will support that; they do right now.

If it's necessary to kill some dozen or even hundred civilians (terrorist family members and supporters) in dagestan, so be it;that's a *very* modest price and less than what zusa asks every month. If it's necessary to kill some zaudi princes than gladly so; killing zaudi princes is no different from killing rattle snakes in ones garden.

Happy new year to every non everyone non zamerican, non izrael, and non zionist.

Ceterum censeo israel americamque delenda sunt.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Dec 31 2013 19:37 utc | 89

#89 Mr. Pragma
"To kill someone and even more so to kill someone presumably innocent for the large part like a relative of a terrorist is an extremely serious action that must not even be considered but in the most extreme of conditions."

I'd expect that these kind of measures are at least secretely considered, if not already used (not only by the russians but everyone who suffers from suicide attacks). Apparently suicide terrorism often works like "you're on of 8 children of a poor family: blow yourself up and your family will receive regular payments for the next n years" it's not too far off to come up with strategies that counter this and make it a little less attractive. I'd guess that some of the accidential bombings of mourning or wedding parties are part of this strategy. But that's just speculation. Would make some sense in a way and I don't think that the masters of war are too concerned about killing innocents if only it helps achieve their aims.

Posted by: peter radiator | Dec 31 2013 19:48 utc | 90

re 63

That is what the whole of the Ottoman empire did - strategically settling ethnicities and religions.

I never heard the Ottomans did much of that. It's an old tradition - exile of the Jews in Babylon, for example.

What is your argument here? You suggest people should be forced to tick an ethnic box and be moved accordingly where that ethnicity settled in - which century?

No, just a factual correction.

For those who believe Xinjiang has been Chinese territory for 2000 years, I recommend the map of the Great Wall of China in Wiki. One can presume that it represents the territory that the Chinese thought they could control securely at the time of construction. Even at its greatest extent, it only curls round eastern Xinjiang. Most was out of their control most of the time.

Western Xinjiang was thoroughly Islamicised. That is the reason for the Uyghur jihadis. Kashgar was a typical Central Asian Islamic city until the Chinese started demolishing it. And started importing Han Chinese population. Much like Tibet.

Posted by: alexno | Dec 31 2013 19:51 utc | 91

"I live in the Baltics. The fact that the Baltics prefers NATO is not because we love America. It is because we remember the atrocities of the USSR Russians just do not seem to realize how much they were, and in some quarters still are, hated."

I cannot say what the Russians did except they had liberated the Baltic states, and its puppet regimes, from the Nazis. Estonian, Latvian embraces Nazism wholeheartedly and committed lots of crimes. Just as you have done now with NATO. So, you are destined to serve and to be vassals state(s) either way. More importantly, I do not think that your beloved NATO is going to protect you if angry Bear decide to swallow you - again. Think Czechoslovakia and Munich Agreement. Who has brought more fruit? Well, with "structural reforms", privatization, desertification of land, sea and air brought by the IMF, I think with the Soviets everybody were better off. The same thing with the Ukrainians.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Dec 31 2013 20:23 utc | 92

weve seen it done to serbs and weve seen it done to libyans...the jihadi Dr Mengeles dont just have a taste for human flesh, they also need fresh organs for their crew of zombies

Organ theft from Syrian, operation conducted in Turkey: See this news report from ANNA (Abkhazian news agency) at 4.33 min video provides new information that terrorists have captured and sent people as prisoners to Turkey, where against their will various internal organs are surgically removed. A young man back in Syria shows his scares, a kidney has been removed. He said that usually, after such operations, people were killed, especially those who were in poor health, but for some reason he was not killed. His postoperative condition was normal. He managed to escape! English subtitles available with the video just click on the “captions box” in the bottom right of the video.

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 22:43 utc | 93

I live in the Baltics. The fact that the Baltics prefers NATO is not because we love America. It is because we remember the atrocities of the USSR Russians just do not seem to realize how much they were, and in some quarters still are, hated.

Definitely not so.

You did and do it because you are stupid enough to believe in the treacherous promises of western zionist "democracy".
Facts show that the main lesson you learned re. "atrocities" is that now *you* committ atrocities against the russian minority.

Basically neutral re. the baltic states, I changed my views when I learned how dirty and arrogantly the "new somebodies" (being proud zeu members) ignored Ukrainian souvereignty and dictated conditions.

While I do not consider it attractive or important for the Russian bear to re-integrate the baltic states, they certainly need a rough lesson to understand their position in the world, particularly concerning Russia. Seeing, for instance, that right now, latvia is integrated into the zeuro (wannabe) imperium against the will of a 60% majority of the latvian people should tell them sth. about zeu ...

No doubt, quite soon thos loud-mouthed baltic states will modestly beg to be friends with Russia again. Which, of course, is very unattractive after all Russia had to experience and learn about them.

Ceterum censeo israel americanamque delenda esse.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Dec 31 2013 22:54 utc | 94

the brits have the govt they deserve?
'In his first interview on the Syrian crisis since losing his ministerial post in the autumn reshuffle, Alistair Burt said the failure of MPs in August to back the principle of military action against the Assad regime for the use of chemical weapons had left the mainstream opposition forces "absolutely devastated".

Burt, who was the minister overseeing Syria policy for three years, said the rules on the power of parliament to sanction British military action were evolving and required clarity. He revealed that ministers were unclear after the Syria vote whether the British government was even permitted to provide intelligence or logistic back-up to a US strike designed to deter President Bashar al-Assad from using chemical weapons.'

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 11h
The inherent psychopathy of the UK establishment on full show as @AlistairBurtMP lauds the brutal murder of Gaddafi:

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 11h
Psychopath elitist @AlistairBurtMP alludes to Gaddafi's murder & joint NATO/Al Qaeda destruction of Libya as good FP:

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 11h
When UK Parliament actually abide by public opinion & not The Corporate War Machine it makes @AlistairBurtMP "Angry".

Phil Greaves @PhilGreaves01 11h
UK MP Alistair Burt (@AlistairBurtMP) shows his complete contempt for the British public he is supposed to SERVE:

Posted by: brian | Dec 31 2013 23:06 utc | 95

Please, remember your Latin grammar. Censeo esse delenda. Censeo takes indirect discourse.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 31 2013 23:38 utc | 96

96 lysias

How smart - and wrong.

Censere invokes ACI, where the 'A' stands for "Accusative". As I (as I did sometimes declare) do not attribute the country genus to izrael (and zamerica) but rather treat them as things (neutrum), "delenda esse" is applicable and correct.

Felix potuit causas rerum cognoscere.

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Jan 1 2014 0:22 utc | 97

mention of a hebrew palestinian accent giving orders from Jordan

Syrian Perspective

'Adraa Workers' Residencies: SAA frees over 5,000 citizens in a surgically brilliant operation slicing away at areas controlled by rodents of J.N. There was another attempt to break out toward the International Highway. It was foiled when MI intercepted orders coming Al-Mafraq in Jordan. The orders were given by someone with a Hebrew-Palestinian accent, believed to be a Zionist officer. It was stupid and the rats lost over 50 of their species.

#Jawbar - Al-Qaaboon: An attack by J.N. scavengers on an SAA command-control center at the Sironix Wall was blunted and then destroyed by SAA and security. Monzer confirms over 20 rats killed but can't get the names.

#Doumaa: Being cleaned out as we told you. A booby-trapped apartment building was pointed out by citizens near the Financial Center at Al-Koo' District. Inside the building were 29 rodents huddled together in anticipation of the long trip to Erebus on an Airbus. When SAA sappers triggered the fuse, all the rats were killed inside. So sad, really. No names.


Madhaayaa: Fighting with no details.

Posted by: brian | Jan 1 2014 1:13 utc | 98

The Volgograd train station bomb that killed at least 17 people on Sunday was set off by a Russian man from the nearby region of Mary El who had converted to Islam and joined Dagestani militants, officials said.

The suspect, identified as Pavel Pechyonkin, worked as a paramedic with an ambulance service but left home in 2011 and joined Dagestani militants after converting to Islam and changing his name to Ansar Ar-rusi.

In response to his parents' video appeals for him to come home, Pechyonkin posted his own video online this spring, saying he was following God's will and would not turn back.

"I have come here only to make Allah pleased with me, to earn heaven," he said in the video.

In a plea by his parents recorded in March, his father, Nikolai, admonished his son to "drop those weapons" before he would become a "terrorist."

"Do all Muslims go around with weapons?" the father said in the video. "You are the only one so stubborn. What harm have people done you? […] You are going to kill children."

His mother, Fanaziya, said that she was also a Muslim, and pleaded with her son that he should abstain from using violence.

"What kind of the Koran…" she said, apparently too pained to finish the sentence, before finding the strength to continue: "I don't believe that Allah has ever said that one must kill people."

"Pasha, I'm appealing to you — please come back," she said. "Imagine, what is happening to me now, how I am feeling. …I'm not living, I'm in hell."

"Imagine that somebody were to kill your parents, how would that make you feel? Why are you turning children into orphans?" she said.

For the video recorded message from Pavel's parents,

Posted by: brian | Jan 1 2014 1:32 utc | 99

Colm O' Toole @84, you're most right! Israel's role in this can't be overlooked. We are all familiar with the Saudi Arabian Intelligence Minister visiting Mr. Putin in Russia and issuing the direct threat to unleash the Saudi/Israeli controlled Chechen Terror Army against Russia and the Winter Olympics. This is not conjecture, the mainstream media even reported on this important meeting in which Saudi leaders arrived in Russia to tell Mr. Putin to hand over Syria to the terrorist army that has invaded that nation. When told by Putin that Russia would not hand over the Syrians to the NATO/Saudi/Israeli armed and funded terrorists and jihadists, the Saudis issued a direct threat to unleash their Chechen terror army against Russia. This has now clearly happened. Volgograd is an easy target as it is the major Russian city in the southern regions but is far enough away from the Caucuses as to not have had any direct involvement in the Muslim separatist fighting there.

Russia so far has shown a very weak hand, using law enforcement and special forces to track individual terrorists and confront them in open battle after attempting an arrest. This may change since Mr. Putin has it on record that the terrorists are part of Saudi intelligence apparatus. Given that proof, I think a direct attack on Saudi intelligence assets and terrorist training camps inside Saudi Arabia are legitimate targets. A Russian Naval vessel equipped with the naval version of Iskander missiles could level any target in Saudi Arabia. It is time to send a message to America's Terrorist Training camp, and Israeli's al-Qaeda-allied forces in Saudi Arabia that the game is up.

A good question to ask is, How often does Al-Qaeda make an attack on Israel of any Jewish entity around the world? I believe not very often in recent times. Al-Qaeda has been flipped to a US asset. I am fairly certain of this. The Winter Olympics should be called off in order to save lives, it is going to be the biggest terror target on earth. The USA/Saudi/Israel all stand to gain much by an all-out terror war on Russian soil. Why Russia sits by and takes it must mean they are militarily weaker than most of us could ever imagine.

Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 1 2014 1:51 utc | 100

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