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September 13, 2013
Open Thread 2013-19
News & views …
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Reuters just reported that the estimated death toll from Syrian chemical weapons attacks — 1,429 in the US intelligence summary — includes bombing victims. Reuters cited three Congressional sources who reported that administration officials conceded that the 1,429 figure included victims from bombings after the release of sarin. Posted by: Harper Langston | Sep 13 2013 16:07 utc | 1 Have events taken the wind out of Obama’s sails or what? Much better for him, and the rest of us, if he were to simply keep is mouth shut rather than be made to look so sad a face like he currently appears to this interested observer. Posted by: thecelticinme | Sep 13 2013 16:09 utc | 2 From Real News on Russian interests in Syria: Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2013 16:29 utc | 3 In my local news in Finland: Russia wants the UNSC al-Qaeda sanction committee to add a Finnish terror sponsor on the sanctions list. Britain, France and Luxembourg have blocked the proposal. (No opposition from the US.) Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 13 2013 17:00 utc | 4 A statement from way back in 1966. How prophetic is this statement? Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2013 17:01 utc | 5 I dont understand why this notice is not in MOA: Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 13 2013 17:06 utc | 6 What is Juan Cole smoking. His argument re: Putin’s op-ed appears to be written by someone who is presenting an essay to a 6th Grade elementary audience….. Posted by: georgeg | Sep 13 2013 17:14 utc | 8 8) it is “unpatriotic” to agree with Putin.
though US congressmen like Alan Grayson say this
A lot of people see themselves back in the times of the cold war. Posted by: somebody | Sep 13 2013 17:27 utc | 9 9)
Posted by: somebody | Sep 13 2013 17:28 utc | 10 Two excellent analyses from the Asia Times Online Posted by: Crone | Sep 13 2013 17:31 utc | 11 @ 4 Posted by: hmm | Sep 13 2013 18:20 utc | 12 @ 11: Thanks Crone, this “Silk Rd” thing probably scares the hell out of Western Capitalists. No doubt part of the rush to secure the resources of the Mid-East. Posted by: ben | Sep 13 2013 18:27 utc | 13 The only named source in this entire rigmarole is someone at WINEP:
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 13 2013 18:35 utc | 14 If you have the stomach to ingest a load of bile, which though aggravating to read is nonetheless a clear statement of the Western foreign policy elite, check out Roger Cohen’s “An Anchorless World.” Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 13 2013 19:00 utc | 15 I would love to hear an opposing view, but to me now that things have settled down from the amazing bit of diplomatic smackdown by Russia the US,Saudi Arabia,Qatar,Israel,and Turkey are facing total defeat on Syria and their wider plans for the Middle East. Posted by: Blinn | Sep 13 2013 19:31 utc | 16 Rebellion under the radar
Posted by: ruralito | Sep 13 2013 19:55 utc | 17 @6 Posted by: JSorrentine | Sep 13 2013 20:03 utc | 18 Crazy CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour want war.. NOW! Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 13 2013 20:13 utc | 19 The real new is that no mainstream US source mentions that the US shares the personal data of Americans with Israel. It’s like this never happened. Posted by: Tod | Sep 13 2013 21:26 utc | 20 @12 Posted by: lysias | Sep 13 2013 21:39 utc | 21 @4 Posted by: lysias | Sep 13 2013 21:44 utc | 22 @9 it is “unpatriotic” to get your head out of your ass too apparently.. Posted by: james | Sep 13 2013 22:04 utc | 23 And we all talk and talk and talk. Ooh, I wonder what’s happening. Here’s a song but you can only hear it if you watch a motherfucking commercial. Neat and kewl. From a long, long time ago. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:17 utc | 24 That was probably bullshit too. Hate to say that my entire life has been bullshit. Yeah, I hate it. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:20 utc | 25 This makes me feel good too. Whatever. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:25 utc | 26 Beyond another motherfucking commercial: Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:34 utc | 27 thanks tsisageya… I enjoyed the respite… music is good Posted by: Crone | Sep 13 2013 22:39 utc | 28 Oh sir, may I please have another? Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:41 utc | 29 I’m trying, crone. I really am. And actually to tell the truth I hate music. HATE it. I know, I know. Don’t school me. lol Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:51 utc | 30 Also, thank you Crone for bearing with me in my disgust. You’re very kind. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:53 utc | 31 I’m not being very Moon of Alabama, I guess. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 22:54 utc | 32 @tsisageya… Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Sep 13 2013 23:14 utc | 33 I do live in Alabama, though. I live in the wonderful capitol (capital? I always forget the spelling.) of Alabama—Montgomery. No, I don’t hate life at all. I love life. I only hate the evil that seeks to destroy. Does that make sense? Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 23:15 utc | 34 Dr. Wellington Yueh, thanks for the heads up but I don’t know what you’re talking about. I sure do appreciate your concern though. Posted by: tsisageya | Sep 13 2013 23:21 utc | 35 @hmm #12 Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 13 2013 23:27 utc | 37 As another commented/ wrote, “obama’s having his cuban missile crisis moment. it’s farce, and a badly written one at that”. Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 13 2013 23:38 utc | 38 Kenneth Roth: Human Rights for…war Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 0:19 utc | 39 if its music you want here is what is known as a good, old fashioned knees up: Posted by: bevin | Sep 14 2013 0:32 utc | 40 A lot of people see themselves back in the times of the cold war. Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 0:37 utc | 41 “A lot of people see themselves back in the times of the cold war.” Posted by: bevin | Sep 14 2013 1:51 utc | 42 Jackass due in Israel to discuss Syria with Netanyahu Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 3:23 utc | 43 god bless the muricuns, they seem to be at every corner of the world, always hard at work in some *humanitarian* missions ….. Posted by: denk | Sep 14 2013 3:35 utc | 44 Rowan,
I don’t think Assad has given any pledge-trusted or otherwise. He’s made clear that any decommissioning of Syria’s strategic deterrent is contingent on a guarantee of non-aggression from the US and an end to arming the Al Qaeda invaders. Putin has largely said the same. Neither of those conditions will be met and so therefore, The Syrian government’s chemical weapons are staying right where they belong. Note that this face saving gesture handed to Obama was just that and ONLY that. Obama got a rope to climb out of his rhetorical hole. There will be no tangible gains. Posted by: Lysander | Sep 14 2013 4:03 utc | 45 On our way to……… Posted by: Rodger | Sep 14 2013 5:02 utc | 46 A week ago, a US Air Force cargo plane left Charleston Air Force Base, home of Colonel Lindsey Graham, also “Senator” Lindsey Graham, one of the most powerful advocates for war against Syria (and Russia). Posted by: Rodger | Sep 14 2013 5:09 utc | 47 The distrust in U.S.-Russia relations was on display even in an off-hand parting exchange at the news conference. Just before it ended, Kerry asked the Russian translator to repeat part of Lavrov’s concluding remarks. Posted by: Rodger | Sep 14 2013 5:25 utc | 48 muricun multitaking from a to z, Posted by: denk | Sep 14 2013 5:43 utc | 49 43/44 – some people really, really yearn for the cold war – spy stories and all this fun. Posted by: somebody | Sep 14 2013 6:08 utc | 50 this one is voluntary…kinda, sorta Posted by: denk | Sep 14 2013 6:39 utc | 51 This man Ban ki moon… amazing, are Kerry writing his speeches? Complete moron! Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 6:48 utc | 52
Veterans today is absolutely full of shit. I would never believe anything I saw there.
On this, you have to watch — and I’m serious, this is unforgettable — Syrian Girl Partisan goes absolutely ballistic at the thought of Syria giving up its CW: link: “This is what this war is about! This is what our soldiers bled for. Only so we can give up our strategic defence? Why should #Syria not demand that #Israel give up its chemical weapons? From Our Cold Dead Hands!” Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 7:25 utc | 53 Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 13, 2013 11:23:42 PM | 39 Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 14 2013 7:58 utc | 54 3- A gas that spares women Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 8:23 utc | 55 @49 Posted by: Rodger | Sep 14 2013 8:44 utc | 56 Russians open up for ch. 7 (intervention) if this deal isnt working. Syria got ditched big time. Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 11:10 utc | 57 my letter to SFGATE: Hello SFGATE Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 11:31 utc | 58
Posted by: somebody | Sep 14 2013 11:37 utc | 59 As for the recently reported distribution of Syria’s chemical weapons to 50 cities, well, this seems to be the first source: Posted by: g_h | Sep 14 2013 13:18 utc | 60 After three days of joint talks between Russia and the US, a deal is reached. John Kerry has now stated that the ‘Assad regime’ must live up to its new commitments, with
For sure, the rhetoric will continue and the usual suspects will be scrambling around for tough guy sound bites to remind us that “nothing is off the table” and “there can be no room for games”. Posted by: Pat Bateman | Sep 14 2013 13:31 utc | 61
That’s what I’d expect. Also I guess that the “inspectors” are, like they did in the past, going to demand access to everything, doing on-the-ground reconaissance work. When accomplished, there’s still every chance of US/Nato doing their thing (i.e. destroy the syrian airforce, anti-air installations and armoured hardware) under some lame excuse. Posted by: peter radiator | Sep 14 2013 13:50 utc | 62 Rowan @ 49, Posted by: Lysander | Sep 14 2013 14:01 utc | 63 Uncle $,
Posted by: juannie | Sep 14 2013 14:03 utc | 64 ‘An American friend who knows Washington well recently told us that “everybody” there knows that, as far as the drive to war with Syria is concerned, it is Israel that directs U.S. policy. Why then, we replied, don’t opponents of war say it out loud, since, if the American public knew that, support for the war would collapse? Of course, we knew the answer to that question. They are afraid to say all they know, because if you blame the pro-Israel lobby, you are branded an anti-Semite in the media and your career is destroyed.’ Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 14:09 utc | 65 Interviewer: Why did Syria agree to the Russian initiative which proposes handing over its chemical weapons to the international community? Why so rapidly? Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 14:11 utc | 66 @40 “the china friendly nepalese monarchy has been toppled by a maoists government ……made in new delhi !” Posted by: ruralito | Sep 14 2013 14:14 utc | 67 brian @ 62: “President al-Assad: Over 10 years ago, Syria presented the UN with a proposal for a WMD-Free Middle East;” Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2013 14:28 utc | 68 P.S.- For that matter, how about a GLOBAL ban on these weapons? Oh, I forgot, only the US and its allies are allowed to have them. Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2013 14:33 utc | 69 Posted by: ben | Sep 14, 2013 10:28:43 AM | 64 Posted by: brian | Sep 14 2013 14:41 utc | 70
Sep 9 dateline on that. There were other stories in the english-language Israeli sites about the Ely Karmon 12-page ‘report’, but none of them picked out this ‘Unit 450’ business. Everyone refers to the ‘report’, but I cannot find it. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 14:58 utc | 71 I am still convinced that the deal on the chemical weapons is the right thing to do especially on the political front. It solidifies the position of the BRICS and their allies on the international stage. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 14:58 utc | 72 Further on that 12-page Ely Karmon ‘report’, I find I had an article from the same day, Sep 9, on it from Ynet. It says:
So already we see that this is not a matter of claiming that ‘Assad is dispersing them now to avoid detection’, as it is being spun. As for ‘Unit 450’, Ynet doesn’t mention it, but they do mention the parent organisation, the Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Center in Damascus, which they say predictably is ‘under Assad’s personal control’. At least they don’t say it’s entirely staffed by Alawis. God, I’m sick of this. Ynet’s story anyway is here. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 15:05 utc | 73 guest77 Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 15:06 utc | 74 Google News is absolutely lousy with content from Radio Free Europe and Voice of America. This is pure US government propaganda. And this was common from well before the recent revisions to the laws now allowing these organizations to propagandize American citizens. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 15:08 utc | 75 A shame we must take most every main stream report on anything with a grain of salt. But it seems the war machine has taken a hit. What nasty thing will they try next to achieve their goals? Posted by: therevolutionwas | Sep 14 2013 15:09 utc | 76 Anonymous i wont waste my time with your imaginary assumptions that you can offer no reasoning for. You have in the past made statements supporting every kind of racist goon who just happens to support the American Empire. Including those with plans to destroy Syria. You are a fan of Navalny and of Morsi and the empire and as such of course your only interest is in concocting sham arguments against anything the forces fighting the empire might do no matter how principled or decent. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 15:19 utc | 77 Aha! Found it! Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 15:27 utc | 78 Wondering if the Real reason US has backed off war mongering, is a Russian threat to bomb Saudi Arabia if US attacks Syria. Posted by: Andoheb | Sep 14 2013 15:29 utc | 79 On the Syrian WMD ban, proposed in 2003: Posted by: ben | Sep 14 2013 15:31 utc | 80 @75, Posted by: biklett | Sep 14 2013 15:37 utc | 81 guest77 Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 15:45 utc | 83 http://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/truthaboutkatyn.html Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 15:46 utc | 84 @79 you? Haha. Right. So you who we all watched support evey personality who would have Syria destroyed are suddenly a huge supporter of its survival? Piece of shit doesnt even begin to describe you or your ham handed attempts to cloak your real intentions. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 16:03 utc | 85 Biklett #77, I hardly think ICT Herzliya would let itself be hijacked by a trojan. In any case I have opened the link again and it’s fine for me. It’s the html introductory page to the famous 12-page report by Ely Karmon, to which the various other stories about Syrian CW refer. The actual report is a 12-page pdf that links from the bottom of the page I linked. In its first footnote, it refers to another ICT report, a 24-page pdf from last month. But neither of them mentions ‘Unit 450’. The Sep 8 one by Karmon makes no reference to any sudden move to disperse the CW to hide it from inspectors. So what this means is that the WSJ story which introduced us to the mysterious ‘Unit 450’ and its crash dispersal program is all new disinfo. Just to go back to square one, the WSJ story is here and I discussed it in comment #14. The contradiction is as follows. WSJ says:
However, in its summary of the Ely Karmon paper, Ynet said, as I quoted in comment #69:
So the magic number of 50 locations has been torn out of context and twisted by WSJ to suggest new, current, evasive moves to hide the CW. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 16:03 utc | 86 On second thoughts: it’s yom kippur there, so even ICT Herzliya might have been plastered with something and not react at once. I wouldn’t see it if it’s a Windows trojan, because I use Ubuntu, not Windows. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 16:14 utc | 87 guest77 Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 16:25 utc | 88 @ Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14, 2013 12:03:50 PM | 82
and then you go on to say @ Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14, 2013 12:14:19 PM | 83
Biklett deserves thanks for warning us rather than knee-jerk condescension from somebody who runs a non-standard O/S. Moreover Biklett is correct – every page on that site generates a warning from several malware detection packages. Posted by: Dubhaltach | Sep 14 2013 16:39 utc | 89 And calling Ubuntu ‘non-standard’ is appeal to authority of a singularly stupid sort. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 17:08 utc | 90 I was just listening to some so called experts who claim it was Bashars plan all along to let the extremists take over the opposition. I wonder, was it Bashar that brought alqueda to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Sinai? Posted by: hilmi hakim | Sep 14 2013 17:09 utc | 91 ruralito 63 Posted by: denk | Sep 14 2013 17:21 utc | 92 Veterans today is absolutely full of shit. I would never believe anything I saw there. Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 17:29 utc | 93 @ Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14, 2013 1:08:03 PM | 86 Posted by: Dubhaltach | Sep 14 2013 17:37 utc | 94 Syrian Girl is arguing against the compromise from an honest position. She wants best for her country and hates to see even the slightest bending. This is to be expected in any debate among partisans over any compromise. This is honest disagreement, but even Syrian Girl must certainly admit that it is the Syrian government who risks their lives like every other Syrian, who has weighed the options and found this to be the least worst of the available ones. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 17:39 utc | 95 guest77 Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 18:27 utc | 96 It’s going to be very entertaining watching the rebels attacking the OPCW teams and blaming the government army for it. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Sep 14 2013 18:40 utc | 97 The problem, Anonymous, is that you must simply be the last person on the planet who is blockheaded enough to maintain that support for the ejection of Morsi is the same as an endorsement of the Egyptian army butchers. Posted by: guest77 | Sep 14 2013 18:45 utc | 98 @92
Posted by: ruralito | Sep 14 2013 18:46 utc | 99 guest77
Thats another problem, you have. But now I see you try to distance yourself from these views, thus you admit you were wrong. Thats good progress but a bit too late. Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 14 2013 20:03 utc | 100 |
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