Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 29, 2013
UK Has No Case For War On Syria

The British government is trying to construct a case to allow itself to attack Syria.

To this purpose the British Joint Intelligence Organisations issued a two page paper on Syria: Reported Chemical Weapon Use (pdf).
The paper cites the amount of propaganda Youtube videos of a certain incident as supporting “evidence”:

Unlike previous attacks, the degree of open source reporting of CW use on 21 August has been considerable. As a result, there is little serious dispute that chemical attacks causing mass casualties on a larger scale than hitherto [..] took place.

It blames the Syrian government for the incident because the other side could not have done it.

It is being claimed, including by the regime, that the attacks were either faked or undertaken by the Syrian Armed Opposition. We
have tested this assertion using a wide range of intelligence and open sources, and invited HMG and outside experts to help us establish whether such a thing is possible. There is no credible intelligence or other evidence to substantiate the claims
or the possession of CW by the opposition. The JIC has therefore concluded that there are no plausible alternative scenarios to regime responsibility.

The British JIO obviously needs some help in using the Google:

Al-Qa’ida and associated extremist groups have a wide variety of potential agents and delivery means to choose from for chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear (CBRN) attacks.

Does the JIO find those reports implausible? The whole argument of the JIC is

  • Lots of propaganda videos show something bad happened.
  • Maybe Al Qaeda didn’t do it.
  • Assad must have done it.

How can such a line of thought be called intelligence?

Even worse than the sloppy intelligence case is the legal case, based on the intelligence, the UK government is trying to assert:

If action in the Security Council is blocked, the UK would still be permitted under international law to take exceptional measures in order to alleviate the scale of the overwhelming humanitarian catastrophe in Syria by deterring and disrupting the further use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime. Such a legal basis is available, under the doctrine of humanitarian intervention, provided three conditions are met: …

“Humanitarian intervention” is highly controversial (pdf) in international law because it contradicts the charter of the United Nations, which is established and binding law, and has been frequently used as sorry excuse for illegal wars. It is not even a “legal doctrine” but simply the opinion of some government lawyers. Such a case for “humanitarian intervention” could also be made on Egypt where the military junta killed over 1,000 people who protested against its coup against a democratically elected government. Why isn’t Cameron making that more urgent case?

In fact both papers show that Cameron has nothing. No defining intelligence that the Syrian army used any chemical weapon nor is there a legal case for waging war on Syria. There would not be even be a case if the Syrian army had used chemical weapons. The Geneva Protocol of 1925 do not involve any enforcement clauses and Syria is not part of the Chemical Weapon Convention.

An AP report today about the U.S. intelligence case on the incident in Syria shows that it is just as weak as the JIO’s thin assertions: AP sources: Intelligence on weapons no ‘slam dunk’

[M]ultiple U.S. officials used the phrase “not a slam dunk” to describe the intelligence picture — a reference to then-CIA Director George Tenet’s insistence in 2002 that U.S. intelligence showing Iraq had weapons of mass destruction was a “slam dunk” — intelligence that turned out to be wrong.

A report by the Office of the Director for National Intelligence outlining that evidence against Syria is thick with caveats. It builds a case that Assad’s forces are most likely responsible while outlining gaps in the U.S. intelligence picture.

Are the U.S. and the UK really going to war based on a “most likely responsible” assertion fiddled from very thin and dubious actual information?

Comments

somebody
So to your defense your present what US did in Vietnam? What does that have to do with Syria?
1. US did x in Vietnam with chemical weapons
2. Syria have chemical weapons
=
3. Therefore Syria did what US did in Vietnam
Horrendous fallacy.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 10:37 utc | 201

Possible lethal effects of CS tear gas on Branch Davidians during the
FBI raid on the Mount Carmel compound
near Waco, Texas
April 19, 1993
There are lot of ways this might have happened not even contradicting the “we know” findings. To assume it was the Syrian Army firing chemical weapons with rockets is …. b. said it

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 10:42 utc | 202

So the fbi killed some people in waco
Ergo the syrians mudered people with cw?
What an asshole

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 10:44 utc | 203

203) I am saying this is what war is. To back any “side” on humanitarian grounds is madness. War has to stop for humans to live.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 11:00 utc | 204

Anyone that bothered to actually read the Lebanon Daily Star article @191 will note that, as usual, there is nothing in that article which would support any of the bullshit that zomebody has tried to foist on us here
The whole thing is based on anonymous sources, there is no mention of hezb or the syrian gov doing the things the liar has claimed they did.
That is as usual zomething the zio-nazi liar just invented so he could write a sentence where he could mention hezb and syrian gov being responsible for seting off chemical weapons

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 11:05 utc | 205

@204
You are lying again
You claimed that hezb and syrian gov deliberately shelled some cw in tunnels
You did so without any evidence whatsoever
You did so because you like to spread lies about hezb and the syrian gov
You have done this since the very start of this war against syria
You are a callous blatant liar

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 11:08 utc | 206

somebody
“To back any “side” on humanitarian grounds is madness”
So both sides are equal now?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 11:24 utc | 207

207 You give me a dictator and I give you Al Qeida – don’t you think people get cheated with this alternative …?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 11:31 utc | 208

@207
The liar is just donning a “war is futile” disguise, temporarily, in order to deflect from the fact that he has been caught lying
He does this sort of shite every time he gets caught lying,
He’s pretending to care.
But it is only a pretence
He only cares about slandring arabs, muslims, hezb and syrian gov, as well as posting lies about the imaginary “existential threat” to the poor little zio-nazis

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 11:35 utc | 209

Re: #208
The liar is trying to convince us that he invents lies about hezb and the syrian gov, but his motives are somehow pure nonetheless because he only invents these blatant lies because he cares SOOOOO much about the poor people

207 You give me a dictator and I give you Al Qeida – don’t you think people get cheated with this alternative …?

He lies because he cares so much, or so he would now have us believe

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 11:43 utc | 210

somebody
More bizareness, “dictator” you been watching CNN too much lately havent you? The fact that you cannot chose a sovereign state before a terror group says it all.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 11:57 utc | 211

He has chozen a sovereign state,
He choze Zio-nazi anti assimilation-land of Israel
Since the terrorists actually indirectly work for the zio-nazis, he feels it is his mission to slander their opponents, hezb and the syrian gov

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 12:01 utc | 212

211) Self-governing; independent: a sovereign state
Is there that choice for Syrians?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 12:22 utc | 213

Somebody
Yes there is a choice for syrians and that hes still alive after almost 3 years of war prove that a majority support him.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 12:26 utc | 214

Re #213
Like you give a damn
You were cheering on the ZATO murderers from the start, and attacking the Syrian gov, from the start
Your recent pretence to actually care about Syrians is just another pathetic example of the many many many lies that you post here

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 12:41 utc | 215

#212 : 211) Self-governing; independent: a sovereign stateIs there that choice for Syrians?Posted by: somebody | Aug 31, 2013 8:2

So your reaction to events in syria is to post obvious lies and bullshit about hezb and the syrian gov?
And this helps syrians how exactly?
Take yer lies and bullshit elsewhere, hasbara-boy.
Ain’t no one buying yer zio-nazi bullshit here

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 12:47 utc | 216

214) I was talking about sovereignty, independence …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 13:27 utc | 217

Yes, of course you were.
Anything to distract from the fact that you just got caught telling lies, eh?

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 13:35 utc | 218

Somebody
You say Syria isnt independent?

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 14:06 utc | 219

Well there is a guy in charge that doesn’t like zionazis
So, CLEARLY, not independent.

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 14:21 utc | 220

219)
depends how you define it
adjective: independent
1.
free from outside control; not depending on another’s authority
no
(of a country) self-governing.
yes
synonyms: self-governing, self-ruling,
yes
self-determining, sovereign, autonomous, free, nonaligned
no
2.
not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence.
no

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 14:38 utc | 221

In the first place, the West has always preferred what it itself calls ‘dictators’ in neocolonial countries, for the obvious reason that if those countries became democratic they would become actively anti-West. So the function of the ‘dictator’ is to manage the deprivation of the citizens, by being ‘firm’ with them, and this is what the West requires, for the sake of ‘stability’. This is very clear in all neocolonies. What is delusory is for the West simultaneously to demand that certain chosen neocolonies become ‘democracies’ without ceasing to be neocolonies, which is of course an impossibility. In fact they are merely targeted for ‘regime change’ from one ‘dictator’ to another. The drivel about ‘democratisation’ is the cover for the desired ‘regime change’.
In the second place, neocolonies can develop substantial urban middle classes with levels of education comparable to those of the West, without ceasing to be either neocolonies or ‘dictatorships’. This presents a problem for the West, because it reduces the rate of profit associated with investment there (for reasons too technical to explain here, but competent Marxists will be able to infer it). And this is why these neocolonies and not others are targeted for regime change, that is, the replacement of one ‘dictator’ by another. The West intends by this process (which is intended to become grossly violent and to devastate much or all of the neocolony concerned), to ‘de-develop’ the given neocolony substantially, ie return it to an earlier stage of development, and thus to restore the rate of profit associated with investment there (again, Marxists will be able to see why this is necessarily the case).

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 31 2013 14:49 utc | 222

So you atack the syrian govt and tell lies that help the zato murderers because you claim syria is not indepenent?
I get the part about you lying again about syria not being indepenent, even though it is as usual complete and utter bollix
What i don’t get is why you seem to think that that somehow justifies you coming here a posting lie after lie after lie
, how does you posting lies have anything to do with the sovereignty or independence of syria?
Claiming some sort of concern for syria as your defence for blatantly posting outrageous lies is fairly pathetic, even by your standards, tbh

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 14:55 utc | 223

somebody
Try derail this dicussion even more your agenda is exposed.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 14:56 utc | 224

219) depends how you define itadjective: independent1.free from outside control; not depending on another’s authorityno(of a country) self-governing.yessynonyms: self-governing, self-ruling,yesself-determining, sovereign, autonomous, free, nonalignedno2.not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence.no

By that defintion, your beloved zio-nazi anti-assimilation land, Israel, lacks “independence” and i suppose “sovereignty”
Can’t wait for when you start claming that the gov’t of zio-nazi land is illegitmate

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 15:00 utc | 225