Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 29, 2013
UK Has No Case For War On Syria

The British government is trying to construct a case to allow itself to attack Syria.

To this purpose the British Joint Intelligence Organisations issued a two page paper on Syria: Reported Chemical Weapon Use (pdf).
The paper cites the amount of propaganda Youtube videos of a certain incident as supporting “evidence”:

Unlike previous attacks, the degree of open source reporting of CW use on 21 August has been considerable. As a result, there is little serious dispute that chemical attacks causing mass casualties on a larger scale than hitherto [..] took place.

It blames the Syrian government for the incident because the other side could not have done it.

It is being claimed, including by the regime, that the attacks were either faked or undertaken by the Syrian Armed Opposition. We
have tested this assertion using a wide range of intelligence and open sources, and invited HMG and outside experts to help us establish whether such a thing is possible. There is no credible intelligence or other evidence to substantiate the claims
or the possession of CW by the opposition. The JIC has therefore concluded that there are no plausible alternative scenarios to regime responsibility.

The British JIO obviously needs some help in using the Google:

Al-Qa’ida and associated extremist groups have a wide variety of potential agents and delivery means to choose from for chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear (CBRN) attacks.

Does the JIO find those reports implausible? The whole argument of the JIC is

  • Lots of propaganda videos show something bad happened.
  • Maybe Al Qaeda didn’t do it.
  • Assad must have done it.

How can such a line of thought be called intelligence?

Even worse than the sloppy intelligence case is the legal case, based on the intelligence, the UK government is trying to assert:

If action in the Security Council is blocked, the UK would still be permitted under international law to take exceptional measures in order to alleviate the scale of the overwhelming humanitarian catastrophe in Syria by deterring and disrupting the further use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime. Such a legal basis is available, under the doctrine of humanitarian intervention, provided three conditions are met: …

“Humanitarian intervention” is highly controversial (pdf) in international law because it contradicts the charter of the United Nations, which is established and binding law, and has been frequently used as sorry excuse for illegal wars. It is not even a “legal doctrine” but simply the opinion of some government lawyers. Such a case for “humanitarian intervention” could also be made on Egypt where the military junta killed over 1,000 people who protested against its coup against a democratically elected government. Why isn’t Cameron making that more urgent case?

In fact both papers show that Cameron has nothing. No defining intelligence that the Syrian army used any chemical weapon nor is there a legal case for waging war on Syria. There would not be even be a case if the Syrian army had used chemical weapons. The Geneva Protocol of 1925 do not involve any enforcement clauses and Syria is not part of the Chemical Weapon Convention.

An AP report today about the U.S. intelligence case on the incident in Syria shows that it is just as weak as the JIO’s thin assertions: AP sources: Intelligence on weapons no ‘slam dunk’

[M]ultiple U.S. officials used the phrase “not a slam dunk” to describe the intelligence picture — a reference to then-CIA Director George Tenet’s insistence in 2002 that U.S. intelligence showing Iraq had weapons of mass destruction was a “slam dunk” — intelligence that turned out to be wrong.

A report by the Office of the Director for National Intelligence outlining that evidence against Syria is thick with caveats. It builds a case that Assad’s forces are most likely responsible while outlining gaps in the U.S. intelligence picture.

Are the U.S. and the UK really going to war based on a “most likely responsible” assertion fiddled from very thin and dubious actual information?

Comments

US emperor loses one of his figleasf: tony blair enraged; Aljazeera upset

Posted by: brian | Aug 29 2013 23:09 utc | 101

You can’t have a proper ‘humanitarian intervention’ without the Brits. It just doesn’t have the same cachet.

Posted by: dh | Aug 29 2013 23:09 utc | 102

Do you think Obama will go to congress and risk everything.
No way.
Just wait for the prvokacia before congress is back.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:10 utc | 103

These terrorists have plans for everything.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they order FSA to take the UN inspectors.
Then who will ask congress or house of commons.?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:13 utc | 104

“I wouldn’t be surprised if they order FSA to take the UN inspectors.”
Very bad move. Assad will rescue them.

Posted by: dh | Aug 29 2013 23:16 utc | 105

LOL

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:17 utc | 106

Assad won’t rescue anybody.
Now he has upper hand and can kick some ass.
Don’t you agree dh?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:19 utc | 107

What do you think Israel will do now?
Cameronn is weekend, Obama is confused and themselves scared to death.
Hezbollah is waiting round the corner, Kurdish separatists are on the move and Jordan is in between nowhere.
Go SYRIA Go!!!

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:23 utc | 108

Are you trying to drag me into some Yahoo type discussion? Don’t waste your time.

Posted by: dh | Aug 29 2013 23:23 utc | 109

In football it’s: FORZA SYRIA

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:24 utc | 110

Obama’s plan B seems to be to go ahead with Plan A alone.

The United States Thursday implicitly reserved the right to strike Syria, alone, in its own national interest, without waiting for allies to join an operation or for global approval. “We certainly are interested in engaging with the global international community on this issue,” said White House spokesman Josh Earnest.
“But at the same time, the president’s chief accountability is to the American people that he was elected to protect.

The US ain’t backing down. Don’t know if he will go to Congress, suspect the US Congress would be more warlike than the already fairly warlike British parliament. Still wonder how much weaker the loss of Britain will make any US strike (they will lose Cyprus airfields for one)
Also bad for the US that its “coalition of the willing” has only France, Saudi Arabia and maybe Turkey? Pretty pathetic for the so called great diplomat Obama. I hear he phoned Angela Merkel earlier and was told basically to go through the UN Security Council.

Posted by: Colm O’ Toole | Aug 29 2013 23:28 utc | 111

What a supreme Dickhead…! Obama Willing to Pursue Solo Syria Strikes, Aides Say

Posted by: CTuttle | Aug 29 2013 23:28 utc | 112

Never mind, I am not trying anything.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:28 utc | 113

@ dh
Never mind. i am not trying anything, especially with you.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:40 utc | 114

BTW what is a yahoo discussion?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:41 utc | 115

It’s quibbling over a trifle, but I’d like to point out that the American at #69 above is wrong in saying “Ed Milliband seems to be the man of the hour in UK.” Ed Milliband only changed his tune yesterday. Up until yesterday, he wasn’t talking about the necessity for “compelling evidence”. Until yesterday he was saying little, and the little he was saying was basically supportive of the UK government’s position. Tonight in the parliament there was a Government motion and Ed Milliband’s Labour Party motion, each for authorizing military action, with different preconditions. Labour’s motion was defeated by 332 votes to 220, a difference of 112 votes, yet the governing coalition in parliament only has a majority of 77 seats. The difference between 112 and 77 reflects Labour Party MPs and small-party MPs voting against Labour’s motion. The Government’s motion was defeated by 285 votes to 272, a difference of 13 votes. It lost because Labour voted against it alright, but more crucially because lots of governing-party MPs voted against it. In accordance with the Government’s motion tonight, there was necessarily to be another motion put to parliament next week, after more information, and tonight’s motion was not to be decisive. Hence some unknown but significant number of governing-party MPs voted FOR tonight’s motion while being essentially opposed to the spirit of it, knowing that they’d get another chance to vote next week after the UN investigators in Syria report their findings. After the vote on the motion tonight, Cameron said: “While the House has not passed a motion, it is clear to me that the British parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want to see British military action.” (ref) It is clear to him that larger numbers of MPs would’ve voted against it next week.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Aug 29 2013 23:42 utc | 116

@99 Obama still has to look tough. I wouldn’t mind betting he’s hoping the Cameron defeat will get him off the hook.

Posted by: dh | Aug 29 2013 23:43 utc | 117

When you tell somebody that * if you cross the red line I will kill you’ but wait I must first ask the police. Then come on and look tough.
Now who is Yahoo?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:50 utc | 118

@106 ‘Yahoo type discussion’ to me suggests endless one line banter that goes nowhere. Perhaps you hadn’t noticed but most posters on MOA are mature level-headed people trying to figure out the truth behind the barrage of MSM propaganda.

Posted by: dh | Aug 29 2013 23:54 utc | 119

Ok I see.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:55 utc | 120

But on the other hand I believe it is more constructive to be short and realistic rather the getting in ti traps of analyzing alot of endless statements.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 29 2013 23:57 utc | 121

It would be wrong to assume that the US Congress would support an Obama war resolution. Remember the very close vote on the NSA, just a few weeks ago. That took the full weight of the Democratic leadership to pass. It is a leadership that is losing credibility very quickly. As is Obama.
Obama will be risking impeachment, yes, really, if he attempts to repeat his Libya trick and order an attack without Congressional approval.
Something elemental is stirring. Something new, not a re-run of the 30s or the 1890s, but a new politics because there is a New Order. A world in which work is scarce, debt peonage is the natural condition of most people and war is permanent. A world without privacy or refuge in which the luxury of political apathy is no longer an option, is coming.
Changes of this sort are so powerful that they even find manifestations in institutions as corrupt and separated from reality as the Parliament in Westminster and Congress. Thus these two close votes: in the House of Commons against the dodgiest dossier ever written and in the House of Representatives against the Panopticon.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 30 2013 0:00 utc | 122

Well of course we are all different. Variety is the spice of life. Personally I prefer carefully thought out posts, possibly with supporting links, that cause me to reflect on complex situations. But I’ll admit to a certain flippancy in my own posts occasionally which may or may not be appreciated.

Posted by: dh | Aug 30 2013 0:02 utc | 123

My last post was in response to #109. Of course I also realize ‘b’ is the final arbiter of what should or should not be considered acceptable.

Posted by: dh | Aug 30 2013 0:04 utc | 124

Also bad for the US that its “coalition of the willing” has only France, Saudi Arabia and maybe Turkey? Pretty pathetic for the so called great diplomat Obama. I hear he phoned Angela Merkel earlier and was told basically to go through the UNSC. Posted by: Colm O’ Toole | Aug 29, 2013 7:28:30 PM | 99

Remember what Brzezinski said four days ago, on the 26th:

All of these things have to be dealt with in a larger context and not confined in my view to a solitary military response by a small number of Western countries, some of them with not particularly constructive historical experiences. I should think at the very minimum Turkey ought to be openly and directly involved if it takes place. And I think there should be some expression of approval for it and support for it from other powers that are very much dependent on some degree of minimal stability in the Middle East for their own economic well-being. In other words, I have in mind some of the Asian powers that depend so much on energy flowing stably from a Middle East which is not entirely set aflame.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 0:06 utc | 125

@110 Impeachment? I suspect the US Congress is perfectly OK with whacking Arab countries. That won’t change unless and until they feel pressure from voters.

Posted by: dh | Aug 30 2013 0:09 utc | 126

Parviziyi 104
24 hours can be a long time in politics.

Posted by: heath | Aug 30 2013 0:11 utc | 127

I can’t really decide on how to feel about this.
On one hand, I’d expect the “experts” to come up with some non-traceable evidence along with a massive media coverage and a second motion that basically says “without evidence, no war, but NOW that we know (that missiles have been fired from the republican guard’s parking lot) we must punish” etc.
On the other hand, this decision is so widely applauded (probably everywhere outside the german media) that the sheer symbolism of it is not in the interest of the warmongering elites. It seems to big of a public defeat to come on purpose.
In this situation I think (more than usually) it’s a media thing to decide which way things will go. It’s either “now with this undeniable evidence the close call need to be revised” or “the people refuse war above all”.
Wonder what the next days will bring. For a moment I’ll just enjoy the british parliament follow its people, for whatever purpose. It’s got some momentum to it.

Posted by: peter radiator | Aug 30 2013 0:20 utc | 128

I’d be careful about the UK vote, remember the US congress voted against the bank bailouts only to “reconsider” a few days later. It is a massive display of democratic level headedness for sure, but given time for the whips to get into gear, for the Israelis to make their calls, and the Saudis to make their threats and anything can happen these days.
Just have a look at this piece of excrement try to attack Galloway for suggesting Israel is elbow deep in this mess. This soulless clown, bought and paid for by the UK Israel lobby no doubt, he has all the moral weight of a second grader tattling on his classmate: http://youtu.be/eIddCee7P0c?t=5m59s
The UK being out is a big deal without a doubt – if they stay that way. But France is in tow no matter what. It appears Hollande already put all his chips in. For whatever reason, France wants this bad. Turkey needs something… anything to go right right now. The CD in Germany probably wants the NSA spying story (and Germany’s involvement in it) to go away more than even Obama. But I can’t imagine they’d piss off the Russians over something they have no interests in and know as well as anyone that this story has more holes in it than the Reichstag in 1945. But who knows what bribes are being made.
I’d expect now we will see the Israelis and the Saudis redouble their efforts. They want this so bad – by this I mean to use the US military as their own personal army. They’re the reason it got pushed forward in the media in the first place and they’re the ones pushing out the dodgy “intel”.
The fact is if Assad gets out of this, he has won huge. The rebels will see the writing on the wall and will likely start to slink away. We can only hope their first stop is Saudi Arabia. It may even cause the clothier in coventry can go back to mending trousers.

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 0:21 utc | 129

@ guest77
Agree 110 %

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 0:25 utc | 130

@115
I think his point was that Labour didn’t vote against war, per se
They voted against going to war under the conditions laid-down by Cameron
The Labour vote for Miliband’s war conditions proved that Labour agree in principle with the Obamanite doctrine of war&destruction under the guise of “R2P”

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 0:26 utc | 131

I’ll sleep on that until tomorrow.
CU all

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 0:27 utc | 132

@114 Bombing an Arab country for gassing AlQaeda is about the only thing i could imagine what will do that.

Posted by: dffg | Aug 30 2013 0:32 utc | 133

Looks like the O-Man could use a supporter, looking at this photo.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 0:35 utc | 134

I don’t know but I expect that the UK politicians below the top level aren’t under as much pressure from external foreign sources as the US ones.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 0:39 utc | 135

@123 Maybe less (it would be hard to be more) but still very considerable. George Galloway often speaks of not 20 years ago when the house of Commons was full of “independent minds” to how it is now.
Can some Brits speak to the strength of the Israel lobby in the UK?

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 1:22 utc | 136

This is good news:
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/events/national-demonstration-no-attack-on-syra

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 1:22 utc | 137

The new boundaries of debate: “well, maybe it wasn’t Assad, but it was still someone in the government going rouge.”
The White House ideally wants intelligence that links the attack directly to Assad or someone in his inner circle, to rule out the possibility that a rogue element of the military decided to use chemical weapons without Assad’s authorization.

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 1:24 utc | 138

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/canada-wont-join-in-military-strike-on-syria
Canada won’t join in military strike on Syria
Canada reluctantly supports its allies on the need for Western military intervention in Syria but will not join in an attack, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday.
“At the present time the government of Canada has no plans… to have a Canadian military mission,” Harper said after recently speaking with his American, British, and French counterparts.
“Our government has been a very reluctant convert to the idea that there needs to be some Western military action regarding the Syrian situation,” he said.
“We have been and remain concerned when we look at this conflict that it is overwhelmingly sectarian in nature and does not have at the present any ideal or obvious outcomes.”

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 1:27 utc | 139

@Guest77 who said “The UK being out is a big deal without a doubt – if they stay that way. But France is in tow no matter what. It appears Hollande already put all his chips in. For whatever reason, France wants this bad.”
Maybe part of the reason is the $1 billion arms contract France got for the modernization of saudis’ Navy: http://fr.finance.yahoo.com/actualites/la-france-signe-un-contrat-de-plus-d-un-milliard-d-euros-avec-l-arabie-saoudite-091825952.html

Posted by: Gregg | Aug 30 2013 1:35 utc | 140

RT banned from news section of extremely popular social bookmarking website Reddit … what a coincidence.
http://www.reddit.com/r/HailCorporate/comments/1lcb8m/rtcom_russia_today_banned_from_rnews_for_spam_and/

Posted by: guest77 | Aug 30 2013 1:36 utc | 141

Read this important article in the WaPo.
US military officials express deep doubts about wisdom of war in Syria:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-military-officers-have-deep-doubts-about-impact-wisdom-of-a-us-strike-on-syria/2013/08/29/825dd5d4-10ee-11e3-b4cb-fd7ce041d814_story.html
This is bona fide push back.

Posted by: anon4569245555 | Aug 30 2013 1:38 utc | 142

General Dempsey has long been negative on Syria, and countered Kerry on it once.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 2:32 utc | 143

Obama’s minions threw a few crumbs at the Congress late today, calling it “consultation.” I call it French democracy AKA no democracy.

Washington (CNN) — Call it domestic housekeeping, a political dotting of “i”s and crossing of “t”s on a checklist for launching punitive military strikes against Syria for last week’s chemical weapons attack.
The Obama administration briefed members of Congress late Thursday in a display of consultation intended to fulfill a murky obligation under law and address the inevitable complaints by minority legislators that no one ever talks to them.
Officials including Secretary of State John Kerry, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, National Security Adviser Susan Rice, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff were among those on the 90-minute telephone conference call, the White House said in a statement.
“The views of Congress are important to the president’s decision-making process, and we will continue to engage with members as the president reaches a decision on the appropriate U.S. response to the Syrian government’s violation of international norms against the use of chemical weapons,” it read.
A lawmaker on the call said that its main message was that the administration has no doubt the Syrian government used chemical weapons. No decision has been made yet on military action, and there is no time table, the lawmaker said.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 2:40 utc | 144

But actually the overfed spineless Washington politicians don’t want to have to defy AIPAC and vote on Syria, so we get “Feinstein Says Congress Need Not Vote on Syria.”
Feinstein, whose hubby made millions on Afghan construction contracts when Diane was chairperson and ranking member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee (MILCON) from 2001 through the end of 2005. Feinstein supervised the appropriation of billions of dollars a year for specific military construction projects. Two defense contractors whose interests were largely controlled by her husband, financier Richard C. Blum, benefited from decisions made by Feinstein as leader of this powerful subcommittee.
In 2009 it was reported that Blum’s wife Sen. Dianne Feinstein introduced legislation to provide $25 billion in taxpayer money to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp, a government agency that had recently awarded her husband’s real estate firm, CB Richard Ellis, what the Washington Times called “a lucrative contract to sell foreclosed properties at compensation rates higher than the industry norms.”
Feinstein never missed a vote that benefited her husband but as to representing Americans, who have even a lower view of the Syria war than they do of Congress? Feinstein Says Congress Need Not Vote on Syria.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 2:52 utc | 145

Obama is no more legally allowed to “reserve the right to strike Syria alone” than was the UK, or anyone else who pretends to subscribe to international law. Come on, is this the law, or is international law just “suggestions”? And if it is, what constrains any other country from striking such among its fellows as pleases it, having “reserved the right” to do so? The United States agreed to be bound by international law as written by the UN, and “but I had my fingers crossed” is not acceptable. The law either is the law and is to be obeyed by all the lawful, or it is just high-sounding words and can be freely disregarded by all, only fools considering themselves bound by it.
The law is clear, and there is nothing additional in “Responsibility To Protect” which allows any nation to unilaterally attack another without a UN vote. And any such vote would be vetoed by Russia and China. I don’t believe Obama is prepared to go ahead with it at all, he’s just “reserving the right” to blow smoke and hoping it will terrify Assad to death, but if he really does launch an attack he will be breaking the law on behalf of all his countrymen.

Posted by: Mark | Aug 30 2013 2:54 utc | 146

International law, in order to have credibility, must be applied consistently. If U.S. presidents had been prosecuted for wartime atrocities, including torture, assassination and destruction of cities, than perhaps other presidents could be similarly charged for atrocities if the evidence warranted it. But that hasn’t been the case, has it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 3:05 utc | 147

Justice? The U.S. isn’t a signatory to the International Criminal Court, for obvious reasons. So far, the International Criminal Court has opened investigations into eight situations in Africa: the Democratic Republic of the Congo; Uganda; the Central African Republic; Darfur, Sudan; the Republic of Kenya; the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya; the Republic of Côte d’Ivoire and Mali.
The Court publicly indicted 30 people, proceedings against 23 of whom are ongoing. The ICC has issued arrest warrants for 21 individuals and summonses to nine others.
All in Africa. None in western countries, only those ‘nasty’ Africans.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 3:14 utc | 148

I am reposting the link brian at #85 already posted. This may be the most damaging article ever written by a mainstream journalist. It may also have the effect of calling off World War III.
EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack –By Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh | August 29, 2013
Rebels and local residents in Ghouta accuse Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan of providing chemical weapons to an al-Qaida linked rebel group.
Basicaly the story says everyone in Eastern Ghouta knows who was behind the CW massacre. Locals, including rebels, accuse al-Qaeda and Prince Bandar bin Sultan of storing chemical weapons in underground tunnels. The story does not specify how the chemical weapons were deployed, did they stage a (false flag) attack, was it an accident, or did they just execute some hostages, as I have speculated.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 30 2013 3:27 utc | 149

That would explain why the U.S. wants the UN investigators out of there soonest, and why the U.S. concluded that only Syria could have supplied chemical weapons. (The government telling the truth would be rare.)

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 3:36 utc | 150

I’m not 100% with this translation:

And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions.

Is she really saying the entire event was caused by accident in tunnel? Or just:

And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set them off.

The latter seems to me much more probable, since we have multiple reports of casualties in the tunnels prior to the main event. Dale Gavlak (an experienced AP man, Petri tells me) was in too much of a hurry when he wrote this. He didn’t spot this ambiguity at all. Don’t tell me he spotted it and chose to pretend he hadn’t.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 3:56 utc | 151

The U.S. State Department continues to say that The Decider is considering all options, not just military ones. Meanwhile we are getting a constant flow of Pentagon leaks from anonymous sources about military preparations with various scenarios. The principal scenario, reflecting the alleged but unproven chemical weapon attack on August 21, concern the neutralization of Syria’s chemical weapons. Syria says that these weapons exist in order to counter Israel’s nuclear weapons so of course it would be a good idea for Israel’s good buddies Americans to neutralize them.
I doubt that the U.S. knows where Syria’s chemical weapons are stored, but we are supposed to believe that U.S. intelligence really knows something, a leap of faith, so let’s assume they do. The U.S. Air Force has exotic weapons which it’s claimed could destroy chemical weapons
Air Force Times

The Air Force has two Agent Defeat weapons, CrashPAD and the Passive Attack Weapon (PAW), according to Jennifer Cassidy, an Air Force spokeswoman. Instead of explosives, these relatively low-tech weapons use metal rods or fragments to pierce containers holding toxic chemicals, allowing them to escape.
To be effective in densely populated areas, an Agent Defeat bomb must destroy toxic chemicals without dispersing them.
In 2002, the Navy announced that it was developing the weapon and pairing it with bombs designed to penetrate fortified buildings. The Navy described it working this way: after bursting into a storage bunker, the warhead would spray copper plates at high speeds to tear into tanks containing toxic chemicals. Material within the warhead would burn so hot it would vaporize the chemicals that escape. A byproduct that explosion would generate chlorine gas, a disinfectant.
If successful, analysts say, the weapon would represent a significant step in the fight against chemical weapons. But destroying only part of the toxic chemical agents and spreading the rest would be a failure.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2013 4:00 utc | 152

Petri @136 That could also explain this tidbit from a recent Jpost article
Meanwhile, reports emerged from Al Jazeera that Syrian President Bashar Assad’s regime forces bombed the Jobar neighborhood in eastern Damascus with toxic chemicals in a mortar attack on Wednesday.
The Syrian Support Group tweeted the use of poisonous gases on Free Syrian Army Soldiers, stating Assad’s forces used chemical mortar shells on Tuesday against his citizens.
Syrian rebels said the attack was carried out near the northeastern Damascus suburb where a chemical weapons strike last Wednesday killed hundreds.

And, why Putin threatened Bandar Bush as pointed out here…!

Posted by: CTuttle | Aug 30 2013 5:05 utc | 153

136) That story makes sense. And for some reason it is AP journalists doing this. From your link.

However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack.
“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta.
Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels were killed inside of a tunnel used to store weapons provided by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, who was leading a fighting battalion. The father described the weapons as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.”
Ghouta townspeople said the rebels were using mosques and private houses to sleep while storing their weapons in tunnels.
Abdel-Moneim said his son and the others died during the chemical weapons attack. That same day, the militant group Jabhat al-Nusra, which is linked to al-Qaida, announced that it would similarly attack civilians in the Assad regime’s heartland of Latakia on Syria’s western coast, in purported retaliation.
“They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them,” complained a female fighter named ‘K.’ “We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons.”
“When Saudi Prince Bandar gives such weapons to people, he must give them to those who know how to handle and use them,” she warned. She, like other Syrians, do not want to use their full names for fear of retribution.
A well-known rebel leader in Ghouta named ‘J’ agreed. “Jabhat al-Nusra militants do not cooperate with other rebels, except with fighting on the ground. They do not share secret information. They merely used some ordinary rebels to carry and operate this material,” he said.
“We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,” ‘J’ said.
Doctors who treated the chemical weapons attack victims cautioned interviewers to be careful about asking questions regarding who, exactly, was responsible for the deadly assault.
The humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders added that health workers aiding 3,600 patients also reported experiencing similar symptoms, including frothing at the mouth, respiratory distress, convulsions and blurry vision. The group has not been able to independently verify the information.
More than a dozen rebels interviewed reported that their salaries came from the Saudi government.

So presumably Russia, US, Israel have satellite photos showing that there was no attack going on at the time.
The coincidence with war preparations though suggest it was more than an accident.
There is also this, which I find likely, though of course Al Manar is Hezbollah’s propaganda

The Islamic Republic of Iran rejected an AmeIran USrican deal that cancels the economic sanctions and acknowledges the Iranian nuclear rights in return of abandoning its support to Syria.
Sultan of Oman Qaboos bin Said indirectly transmitted the headlines of the deal to the Iranian leadership during his recent meeting with Imam Sayyed Ali Khameni who asserted that any Western strike against Syria would be faced by an uncontrollable storm of military responses.
Filtman: Western Strike against Syria Will Be on Sunday
The UN official, Jeffery Filtman, further stressed during his recent visit to Tehran that the American military strike against Syria aims mainly at forcing the Syrian government to attend Geneva II conference, not at eradicating Assad’s regime.
It was noteworthy that Filtman set next Sunday as the due date of the “limited” strike.
In response, the Iranian leadership rejected the deal and considered that the Iranian support to Syria cannot be swapped with any other issue.
The Iranian leaders also underlined none can guarantee that the counter-attack to the military strike will be limited, deeming the western action against Syria would endanger and destabilize the whole region.

And that is why Obama is now caught with his pants down. He deserves it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 5:12 utc | 154

This here is the Jerusalem Post, suddenly getting worried

Analysis: Are Syrian and Iranian threats just bluster?
By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON
08/30/2013 06:38
US military expert says Syria is capable of attacking Israel, as it has hundreds of scud missiles and others from Iran, such as the Fateh-110 surface-to-surface missile that has at least a 200-km range.

and with a lot of may, believe and perhaps which I would not like to risk living in Israel

Regarding anti-aircraft SAM weapon systems, he believes that much of Syria’s capability has been reduced by the civil war. Rebels have overrun and taken a number of SAM positions and support facilities, and many others have been involved in the ground fighting, which raises questions about their operational readiness, he pointed out.
The SA-3 anti-aircraft missile system has been modernized, he said, adding that the US understands the situation well.
The SA-17, he continued, is different in that it is a much more modern system, but it was one of the systems mysteriously struck, though it could pose a threat if ready.
Asked if previous alleged Israeli attacks against Syria show that the US may have an easy time operating in Syrian airspace, White responded that it provides some indication, however, previous attacks were special operations and brief, whereas the American attack planned against Syria would be less of a surprise and would carry on for a longer period of time.
“The airforce is going to want to have these systems neutralized,” he added.
Edward Hunt, an aerospace and defense consultant for HIS Janes in London, told the Post that Syria possesses more than 500 scud missiles and similar surface-to-surface weapons which could be fired at targets in Turkey or Jordan or at anyone on the ground in Syria itself.
Hunt believes that Syria has at least 20 of the P-800 Yakhont anti-ship missiles.
They also have “naval fast attack craft and Anti-Submarine Warfare helicopters plus the remaining air force combat aircraft,” he added. “But obviously they would be more vulnerable if they tried to attack a US or other naval vessel.”
Syria possesses a mixed range of surface to air anti-aircraft weapons, “some old and some quite new, like the SA-10, SA- 11, SA-19 and SA-22.”
“It is not clear how effective they would be when facing well-trained and equipped US, British [and] French pilots using stand-off weapons,” said Hunt. “In the absence of the S- 300 long-range SAMs that Russia seems not to have delivered, that’s probably the best they have outside of unconventional methods.”
Prof. Efraim Karsh, a scholar of Middle East and Mediterranean Studies at King’s College, who recently joined the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies (BESA) at Bar-Ilan University, told the Post that he sees a low probability that Syria would attack Israel.
According to Karsh, Assad knows that the strikes will probably be limited, “so he speaks in a large voice, but he probably is already in a bunker, waiting for it to be done and over with.”
He says there may be a silver lining in a Western attack in that it could foreshadow one with Iran. Syria’s military may be better than Iran’s, and if the West is successful, it may show that attacking Iran might not be as difficult as previously assumed, he said.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 5:59 utc | 155

He could give the green light to Israel for them to go ahead and do it. After all, Israel has shown the capability of and is proud of penetrating Syria’s defenses. That would be a very interesting turn out, given the whole world, including Zionist occupied terrortories (UK and France), has clearly said No to this escalation.

Posted by: Yonatan | Aug 30 2013 7:11 utc | 156

143) Actually, Israel has very clearly said that they would keep out of Syria – of course they have not done that in reality, but they tried to keep it very low key. The mutual deterrence with Syria is real. That deterrence is negated when Syria gets attacked anyway.
I think there is a rift between US neocons/Obama progressives and Israelis who actually live in a country that might get destroyed.
Like this article in the New York Times outing Israeli/Saudi Arabia pressure on congress in support of the Egyptian military.
Basically this destroyed Obama’s Muslim Brotherhood strategy he started with his Cairo speech.
AIPAC seems to have gone completely quiet on Syria.
For policians going for military “action” in Syria is absolutely no win as George Galloway brilliantly demonstrates here. British parliament’s decision is big news.
Obama does not have to win any more elections. Truth coming out on the Ghouta chemical weapons use would deter him though. Frightened Israelis, too. The fact that he would have to bomb Al Nusrah, too, to ensure “his” rebels win (and he cannot be sure if they are “his”), too.
Strikes just do not make sense except looking good (and that is tricky as the US public does not want war) and maybe getting concessions in the negotiations that are done in dual track.
After this, US negotiation position will be worse, not better.
The only reason for a strike now would be credibility improving the negotiations position. But if the retaliation is impressive – where to stop?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 7:44 utc | 157

Troubling that the no-war side only won slightly in the UK..

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2013 7:50 utc | 158

Obama blatantly lied to the ‘select’ congress critters they briefed thursday… US claims new death toll from chemical attack
…the administration shared intelligence with lawmakers aimed at convincing them the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people and must be punished.
The officials told lawmakers 1,300 men, women and children died in the attack, said Representative CA Dutch Ruppersberger, top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee… … The high-level officials who spoke to the lawmakers offered more details of the suspected chemical attack and their firm conviction that the Syrian government was to blame — but little new evidence backing up that conviction.
It remained to be seen whether any sceptics were swayed by the call, given the expectation in advance that officials would hold back classified information to protect intelligence sources and methods.
A number of lawmakers raised questions in the briefing about how the administration would finance a military operation as the Pentagon is grappling with automatic spending cuts and reduced budgets.

Posted by: CTuttle | Aug 30 2013 7:50 utc | 159

Oh US dont want to act alone? They want to drag down other states in the mess too? They think that if many people say yes to war-crimes it becomes legal? What a jerk obama is.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2013 7:52 utc | 160

@ somebody | 144
“Actually, Israel has very clearly said that they would keep out of Syria – of course they have not done that in reality, but they tried to keep it very low key.”
Not sure I agree with it, they might not be as loud as some neocons, but Israel is heavily, HEAVILY trying to influence NATO to start bombing:
1) Israel was pushing for Syria’s destruction (and occupation of its land) for decades, weakening of Hezb and Iran would be nice bonus.
2) Israel extensively supports terrorists with weapons (you can find more Israel’s produced weaps in Syria than by US), intelligence and logistics.
3) Israel’s puppets among politicians are 100% supporting terrorists and pushing for bombing of Syria.
4) Israel itself bombed Syria multiple times in recent months.
5) Israel’s influenced media just did 24/7 “bomb Syria!” campaign.
6) Most importantly, latest development – Israel’s provided recording was the main “evidence” which “convinced” major NATO members to start preparations of Syria’s bombing without bothering with UN or its investigation.
If anything, it proves Israel BADLY wants Syria to be attacked by NATO, and if not invasion, then at least bombed a la Libya.

Posted by: Harry | Aug 30 2013 8:05 utc | 161

More AIPAC confusion: From their website
“Rocket Attack from Lebanon Narrowly Misses Dozens of Holocaust Survivors”
and – tabletmag –
At IDF’s Faux Hezbollah Village, Israeli Troops Prepare for a Third Lebanon War
Last week’s rocket attack and the weekend’s car bombing in Tripoli add urgency to Israeli counterinsurgency drills

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 8:10 utc | 162

harry
Correct if it wasnt for Israel, US wouldnt be threaten Syria at all. I dont understand how even people here can deny that. “Aipac/Israel is silent” lol yeah right.
Remember what Ariel Sharon once demanded. First Iraq, then Libya, Syria, next will be Iran.
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2013 8:22 utc | 163

148) yep, but something clearly changed after John Kerry’s emotional speech.
The US/Israel seem to have counted on being able to get a deal with Iran cutting out Syria. They did not get that. Now Obama’s credibility is on the line and Israel has to consider if it can survive the retaliation – not knowing what it would look like.
They can attack Lebanon same time US attacks Syria – they won’t survive everybody on their borders throwing at them everything they have. After Egypt they even cannot be sure Hamas will keep out.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 8:34 utc | 164

As much as the push for war’s been defeated in UK’s parliament, the quest to “punish” Syria by the psychopaths is still on. These people have bet their houses, political careers etc etc on the fall of Assad (whatever that means) and have invested too much into the project to watch it all go in ruins. They will hurt Syria one way or another.
And btw, if David Cameron had any decency in him, he’ll resign as prime minister. He’s clearly there serving the interest of special interest groups like the defense contractors and the pro-Israel war parties. The British public, who can’t afford housing, schools etc etc be damned!!!
Syria will be damned if they don’t work to acquire nuclear weapons. It’s the only language these psychopaths understand.

Posted by: Zico | Aug 30 2013 8:39 utc | 165

@Christos banned for continue verbal diarrhea
learn to make comments which have some meat instead of silly one liners that disturb the discussion.

Posted by: b | Aug 30 2013 8:42 utc | 166

@144 zomebody made the nonsensical, untrue, claim that Israel has “kept out” of the war on Syria.
@148 Harry corrected this deliberate misrepresentation (lie?) of zomebody’s, by correctly pointing to all the evidence that proves otherwise, including the fact that that zio-nazis have attacked syria 3 times this year
@149, posted 5mins after harry, zomebody promply switches the coversation, ignoring Harry’s reply, to some zio-nazi bullshit mentioning “the holocaust”
A more obvious propagandist for the prefered zio-nazi narrative would be hard to find.

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 8:45 utc | 167

Don’t know what happened to the numbering system
Correct numbersthis time
@157 zomebody made the nonsensical, untrue, claim that Israel has “kept out” of the war on Syria.
@161 Harry corrected this deliberate misrepresentation (lie?) of zomebody’s, by correctly pointing to all the evidence that proves otherwise, including the fact that that zio-nazis have attacked syria 3 times this year
@162, posted 5mins after harry, zomebody promply switches the coversation, ignoring Harry’s reply, to some zio-nazi bullshit mentioning “the holocaust”A more obvious propagandist for the prefered zio-nazi narrative would be hard to find.

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 8:51 utc | 168

And, why Putin threatened Bandar Bush as pointed out here…! Posted by: CTuttle | Aug 30, 2013 1:05:51 AM | 153

Excuse me, dear CTuttle, but that is Sorcha Faal again. Do I have to demolish this nonsense all over again on each new thread?

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 9:01 utc | 169

He even managed to worm-in the word “existential” into the conversation the other day.
Seems hasbara central has requested that it’s minions try and turn the conversation around to how “threatened” the poor little zio-nazis are feeling right now, specially after they were so well behaved by not “involving” themselevs in war on Syria, according to zomebody anyhoo

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 9:02 utc | 170

The article refered to by Brian and again by Petri has many elements who show it is well researched. The KSA/Jordan connection is one. Add Morocco to the list. These are the very close partners, opposed to whatever Qatar/Turkey thought it would be allowed to.
In the interview given by Shaykh Ya’qubi to M. Barber of SC, the guy who they try to sell as a moderate (except that he cannot condemn djihad, sorry) is based in Morocco and announces he will soon open an office in Amman.
Petri, I suggest that you translate “Very hamm” (on your wikipage) as “Very important”. Otherwise it looks like an unfinished Google translation.
The Arab Street and its contradictions…http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/world/middleeast/looming-airstrikes-in-syria-pose-test-for-egypts-leaders-and-the-opposition.html?_r=1&

Posted by: Mina | Aug 30 2013 9:04 utc | 171

When zomebody finally adresses harry @167 he does not address ANY of the points harry made, instead throwing in some nonsense about “everthing changed” (echos of bush and 911) that has nothing to do with anything, acknowledges nothing, explains nothing.
He then proceeds to try and hijack the conversation by once again making allusions to how bad it is for the poor little, innocent and supposedly uninvolved Israelis
Propaganda 101

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 9:18 utc | 172

Just judging from the direction zomebody is trying to push this conversation into, leaves me wondering if the zio-nazis are planning some new atrocity, and have their professional hasbarists out laying the groundwork, spreading the notion of how “exsistentially threatened” they are pretending to feel right now

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 9:24 utc | 173

@b
You mean disturbing your digging in statements that are made to confuse people?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 9:36 utc | 174

173) The fun fact is that the Middle Eastern ally the US most heavily invests in will not be part of the shrinking war coalition Obama is trying to put together.
Turkey and Jordan have been really silent recently, leaves France …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 9:49 utc | 175

This here is the Egyptian military – another US investment.

CAIRO – Egypt’s foreign minister says his country strongly opposes military action against Syria and would not support possible punitive strikes by the United States and allies against the Syrian regime over alleged use of chemical weapons.
Nabil Fahmy says in a statement Thursday that Egypt condemns chemical weapons use by any side in Syria’s civil war and is asking the international community to bring perpetrators to justice after a U.N. team investigating submits findings.
The Arab League this week said Syria’s regime is responsible for the “heinous crime” involving chemical weapons. It did not state a position on foreign punitive strikes against Syria.
Arab League diplomats told The Associated Press the organization will not support military action. They spoke anonymously because of rules preventing them from being named.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/29/egypt-foreign-minister-says-his-country-opposes-possible-punitive-strikes/#ixzz2dRcy6w1n

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 9:52 utc | 176

And this here is some people getting cold feet – USA Today

Iran and others could cause major damage to U.S. and its allies

Posted by: somebody | Aug 30 2013 9:56 utc | 177

Regarding the point I raised earlier about the Mint Press News story. As you recall, I’m not 100% with this translation: “And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions.” Is she really saying the entire event was caused by an accident in a tunnel? Or just: “And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off explosions,” without the definite article, meaning, set off individual gas munitions prior to the main event. The latter seems to me much more probable, since we have multiple reports of casualties in the tunnels prior to the main event. I’ve posted the above as a query in the comments to the story at Mint News Press, so perhaps Yahya Ababneh will clarify from the original Arabic notes or recordings.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 10:21 utc | 178

Zome of us never thought that there would be an overt ZATO/ZUSA/ZUK attack anyway. Not just yet.
From the moment the UK ex-defence chief came out saying it’s a bad idea, it was clear the main purpose of this excersize was to fix “Syria=WMD” in the minds of idiots and the great unwashed ignorant masses. The pay-off is further down the line
The wittlin away of the willing is no surprize to any one that viewed this as a bluff from the getgo

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 10:50 utc | 179

And zomebody STILL has not acknowledged so much as one of the many reasonable and relevant points made earlier by Harry, when harry corrected zomebody’s deliberate misrepresentation of Israeli actions against Syria

Posted by: hmm | Aug 30 2013 10:55 utc | 180

I attended the rally outside Downing Street on Wednesday – a decision entirely vindicated after last night’s vote in Parliament. How much difference did we really make? I don’t know, but it made me feel a whole lot better.
I hope it emphasised the level of disquiet amongst the British public about intervening in Syria. One stirring speech in particular came from a representative of Britain’s largest Union, who has the ear of the Labour leader Ed Miliband. To say that he had contempt for Kerry’s recent mumblings about morality is putting it lightly.
If Nobel War Prize winner Obama wants to strike Syria then there will be no leading from behind this time – hiding behind the idea that action is to be taken by the ‘international community’, as if to legitimise any attack undertaken by the US and its few minions. Does he have the stomach for it?
What’s certain is that the opposition will now be looking to produce another attack to illustrate that any inaction will have made Assad feel untouchable. The propaganda will be unyielding.

Posted by: Pat Bateman | Aug 30 2013 11:01 utc | 181

Infowars link Posted by: Christos | Aug 30, 2013 7:22:31 AM | 182

P J Watson has fallen right into the trap I outlined in my previous comments. He has read the statement: “And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions” as meaning THE explosions, what I call ‘the main event’. But I do not think that is the intended reading. I think it means “And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off SOME explosions.” The Syrian army reported that they suffered from gas poisoning when they went into the tunnels. I’m not sure whether or not they reported that they found bodies there. But anyway, I’m reading this as accidents prior to ‘the main event’. Funnily enough, Mint Press News is currently unreachable from here (time out, taking too long to respond), but we have a verbatim copy of the relevant part of the story here.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 12:07 utc | 183

If you should look for Mint Press News as I did and find it unobtainable, it is because of P J Watson’s story linking to it at Infowars:

.@MintPressNews is temporarily down following a traffic spike. Stay tuned, and thanks for your patience!

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 30 2013 14:11 utc | 184

Press TV has picked up on the article by the AP reporter:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/30/321260/syria-militants-use-saudisupplied-gas/
So if this turns out to be true, will Obama bomb Saudi Arabia???????
And if Bandar is in bed with the CIA, yikes…there goes Langley too!
And what if the reason the Israelis planted the intelligence is because they had a hand in all this too……bye bye Tel Aviv!
Cause Obama’s ready to bomb “anyone” who uses chemical weapons!

Posted by: kalithea | Aug 30 2013 15:25 utc | 185

LOL

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 15:56 utc | 186

Something like. that but right now every except the Israeli’s need time. And the development says go slow but keep the fire burning.
Behind that napalm attack today at the school is probably Israel.

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 15:59 utc | 187

@ kalithea
Are you Greek?

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 16:04 utc | 188

This is the start up of plan B’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23906913#%22

Posted by: Christos | Aug 30 2013 17:31 utc | 189

Thе idea оf intervening in Syria, frоm thе point оf view оf Mr. O аnd thоѕе hе serves, iѕ ѕо risky аnd problematical, аnd ѕо unlikеlу tо result in a net benefit fоr them, thаt I find it hаrd tо bеliеvе аnуthing will асtuаllу happen. I suppose it’ѕ роѕѕiblе that, in thе hissy fit оvеr Snowden, thеу’vе lost thеir marbles.

Posted by: War in Syria | Aug 31 2013 5:40 utc | 190

190) Well they strangled themselves with a red line.
Judging from Kerry’s description “what we know” it is actually possible that all sides are reporting the truth just leaving out facts
So there were rocket attacks and shelling on opposition held and contested areas and the opposition had been inexpertly handling and storing chemical weapons as reported by Hezbollah and by the Syrian government.
Like this lebanon Daily Star article

BEIRUT: At least four Hezbollah fighters are receiving treatment in Beirut after coming into contact with chemical agents in Syria, a security source told The Daily Star Monday.
The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said between four and five members came into contact with the chemical agents while searching a group of rebel tunnels in the Damascus suburb of Jobar over the weekend.
On Saturday, Syrian state television said Syrian soldiers found chemical agents in Jobar and that some had suffocated while entering the tunnels.
The Hezbollah fighters were transported to Lebanon for treatment and are currently in a Beirut hospital in stable condition, the source said.
The source did not say what the chemical agent the fighters encountered was except that it was dispersed in the form of a gas.

So the rockets set off the chemical weapons depots. That would explain the many different areas affected and the contested areas affected.
It would also explain the mainly women and children on the photos – as fighters on both sides would have withdrawn in expectation of the shelling.
It is possible that the chemicals were meant to keep the government out of the tunnels and that the government exploded the gas by shelling knowingly to release it before moving in.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 6:25 utc | 191

191) It is also likely that Hezbollah/The Syrian government use some type of gas to clear the tunnels.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 6:31 utc | 192

Note that the source is as usual with this professiomal liar, completely anonymous
Zome people are so completely and utterly stupid, that they will keep basing theories on completely anonymous sources and keep being found out to be spouting bullshit from the getgo
Zome people never seem to learn from the fact that most what they post here turhs out tobe bullshit
Of course zome people actually come here to spead things that they know are probably untrue
For example 192 and 192
The c
proven liar above just wanted to post something that blamed hezb and the syrian gov’t for using gas

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 7:38 utc | 193

hmm
I doubted your claims on “somebody” but now it looks more and more that you are correct. Nice catch.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 31 2013 9:45 utc | 194

Yeah, #191 and #192 are very unconvincing. “The government exploded the gas by shelling knowingly to release it before moving in,” then “Hezbollah/The Syrian government use some type of gas to clear the tunnels.” Like anybody would fill a tunnel with poison gas then walk into the tunnel and get poisoned by it.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 31 2013 9:49 utc | 195

” Like anybody would fill a tunnel with poison gas then walk into the tunnel and get poisoned by it.

Oh they do that all the time, inside the heads of lying shitbag zionazi mouthbreathers like zomebody
Zomebody is of course yer common or garden zio-nazi racist
Oh he hides it well for the most part, but it slips out over time
Consequently he either believes that, not being racially zio-nazi, hezb really ARE that stupid, or more likely he want’s everyone else to believe that hezb are that stupid

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 10:12 utc | 196

you all believe the story of the white and the black knight? how old are you?
Tunnel warfare – the Vietnam experience

A SPECIAL BREED OF MAN:
U.S. forces were not aware of the tunnels at first. Indeed, when elements of the 25th Infantry Division arrived at Cu Chi in 1966, they constructed a base on top of one of the more elaborate complexes. However, it did not take long to discover the tunnels. At first, the response was to fill them with CS gas to flush the VC out, then to blow them up. But the intelligence value of materials inside the complexes soon persuaded U.S. commanders to send soldiers into them to recover bodies or documents and take on the VC face to face. These soldiers known as “tunnel rats,” needed a special kind of courage to enter a dark, narrow, foul-smelling and claustrophobic passage, not knowing where the enemy was or what he would do, was something only a few men could even contemplate.
Originally called “Tunnel Runners” by the 25th Inf Div, and “Ferrets” by the Australian Army, the term “Tunnel Rat” soon became their official accepted name. The US Army soon realized that trying to destroy the tunnels was a short-sighted policy that wasn’t going to work. Moreover this was also a loss as the underground networks could yield vital intelligence on the VC in the form of plans and documents.
A chemical officer of the 1st Inf Div, Capt Herbert Thornton a Southerner, was charged with setting up the first tunnel team.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 31 2013 10:18 utc | 197

I believe the story about the lying shitbag zionazi that never has a good word to say about any arab or muslim,
That always posts something about how bad things are for poor little zionazi Israelis,
that lies about Israels involvement in the war on Syrians,
that frequently posts stuff he knows is lies
That is the true story i believe

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 10:22 utc | 198

Btw the lies being referred to are your lies about hezb and syrian gov’t knowlingly releasing the gas by shelling
This is clearly just your usual baseless conjecture, based on nothing more than your own deliberately dishonest desire to spread lies about hezb and the syrian gov’t

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 10:29 utc | 199

Why doyou lie so much, zomebody?
Is it genetic?

Posted by: hmm | Aug 31 2013 10:30 utc | 200