News & views …
|
|
|
|
Back to Main
|
||
|
July 27, 2013
Open Thread 2013-15
News & views …
Comments
One source with ties to the intelligence community told Narco News that a “team has already been dispatched” to apprehend Snowden via extraordinary rendition — the extrajudicial removal of an individual from one country for the purpose of transfering the person to another country. “That team is now shadowing him,” the source claims. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 27 2013 18:21 utc | 2 1) surely, Benghazi prisoners are of a different kind from Baghdad prisoners? Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2013 19:04 utc | 3 This here is the BBC on the jailbreak
I guess the sinking ship of the Muslim Brotherhood (and Qatar) in Egypt affects Libya. Al-Mismari had blamed them the day before he got assassinated of corruption and of killing General Younis. Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2013 19:36 utc | 4 One of the aspects of the current economic crisis is that there is a very large reserve army of labour, millions of young people looking for work. And something to give meaning to lives consigned to the scrap heap. Posted by: bevin | Jul 27 2013 19:40 utc | 5 @4 Let’s not forget that not everybody in Libya hated Ghadafi. In fact a lot of Libyans thought he was OK. Posted by: dh | Jul 27 2013 20:06 utc | 6 Severe economic sanctions on Iran are a key part of the US/Saudi effort outlined above, while the USA prattles about Iran/Hezbollah “interference” in Syria as a pretext for further aggression, and Obama bows to kiss the hand of the Saudi king. 6) There seems to be a video of the jailbreak – looks very peaceful. Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2013 20:19 utc | 9 I smell blowback. Abdel Mesmari is related to Nouri Mesmari. Nouri was one of Old man Gaddafi’s inner circle. He got slapped around by Muammar, vowed revenge flew to France and offered his services to Sarkozy and cozzied up to pseudo philosoher BHL. Posted by: Fernando | Jul 27 2013 20:39 utc | 10 I guess the Muslim Brotherhood did in Libya what they did in Egypt – alienate/intimidate/threaten/assassinate every potential or real ally so that everybody now sides with the old regime against them:
Posted by: somebody | Jul 27 2013 20:48 utc | 11 There will be a lot of hoopla soon over Obama awarding a Congressional Medal of Honor. No doubt there will be claims that the war has been a US success, that the war is ending and that the Afghan Army is taking over.
What Obama won’t mention is that Ty Carter’s effort in Nuristan Province, northeast Afghanistan, was all for nought. This US battle loss precipitated a US decision to pull forces out of the province. It’s a simile for the entire misguided twelve-year fiasco in Afghanistan. The entire justification for withdrawing from Nuristan (and Kunar) was basically that the US presence in these remote areas fuels the local insurgency, and if US forces just left, the foreign (read: Pakistani and al Qaeda) support would dry up. So it took a while but the US pulled out.
But somebody forgot to tell the locals to ‘dry up.’
Liberals in the US are all exercised about the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline, like it would be something new. Approximately 20% of U.S. crude oil and products come from Canada. A substantial portion of this amount comes from tar sands, and it comes to the US in pipelines, as seen here.
“Liberals in the US are all exercised about the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline, like it would be something new.’ Posted by: bevin | Jul 27 2013 21:50 utc | 14 Of course a lot of the people who were calling for the “liberation” of Libya are now quiet uninterested in covering the anarchy it has left behind. Suppose they are all busy pimping for similar medicine in Syria. Posted by: Colm O’ Toole | Jul 27 2013 23:59 utc | 15 I assume that Libya and its US-induced chaos never got mentioned in the Power hearing.
Corporal Edwards — Patriot First Class This is a must-read for anyone who wants to understand Egypt.
Worth a listen from DU: Posted by: ben | Jul 28 2013 5:07 utc | 19 16) you forget the answer – in May 12,2011 when Nato was already bombing
Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 5:37 utc | 20 Programmer under oath admits computers rig elections. From DU: Posted by: ben | Jul 28 2013 5:57 utc | 21 Re Libya. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 28 2013 6:12 utc | 22 You have to read conservative websites to find out what is going on in Syria
Plus a good summary why Saudi Arabia does not like the US Muslim Brotherhood strategy. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 7:09 utc | 23 According to Human Rights Watch many of the killed protesters in Egypt were executed with shots to the head and chest..the military is going crazy. Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 28 2013 7:42 utc | 24 Somebody, that “good summary” contains one line of argument that I do not accept:
The MBs don’t have any more sympathy for Shi’ism than the Sauds do. Morsi’s visit to Tehran didn’t have any concrete results, nor I suppose did Morsi expect it to. It was the case that Iran subsidised Hamas, though no longer. Iran is always ready to try to coopt any MB branch that shows interest in being coopted. I personally have never comsidered Hamas to be a real “resistance” to Israel, anyway. What in fact has Hamas ever done for the “resistance”, apart from talk? Nothing, really. It provides Israel with regular pretexts to ignore the needs of the Gazans, that’s all. Anyway, here another Al-Monitor article on exactly the same subject: Iran’s ambiguous interest in the MBs. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 8:06 utc | 25 I wonder why Finian Cunningham, a very regular Press TV commenter without any political affiliations that I know of, is so certain that Sisi & Co are US stooges? Obviously the MBs say they are. They always accuse everybody, including Hezbollah and Assad, of being USraeli stooges. According to R Fisk, the MB demonstrators apparently painted “Stars of David” all over the nearest Army barracks. But seriously, Sisi & Co are not good news for the USA. That should be obvious. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 8:16 utc | 26 24) sorry, what you are saying is not true
Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 10:02 utc | 27 25) As always, the US hedges on lots of sides. So yes, Al Sissi, the Muslim Brotherhood and human right groups are all US stooges. Apart from that, and first and foremost, the fight for their own interest. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 10:06 utc | 28 Rowan Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 28 2013 10:18 utc | 29 The notion that the criminal brotherhood are moderates is nothing but Al Jazeera lies. Posted by: hilmi hakim | Jul 28 2013 10:21 utc | 30 @somebody, 26: It’s absurd to claim that the MBs are accepting towards Shi’ism. Especially now, when they’re up to their necks in sectarian killing all over Asia. Israel could be said to have pressured the West to support the military regime in Egypt, because Israel as I argued a month ago draw a thick red line when it comes to Jihadis in the Sinai, even if in reality the target of the Jihadis in the Sinai was Egypt itself, not Israel. You may remember I wrote a comment saying General Sisi might have rung up the Israeli equivalent of the National Security Council and said, “How do you really feel about the Jihadis in the Sinai? Because I don’t like them.” And the Israelis said, “You’re right, good and faithful General Sisi, why don’t you deal with them.” But by doing this they were bypassing the US, which in its mad, CIA-driven way, was still encouraging Morsi, because he wanted to join the Sunni Jihad against Syria, and the US were probably thinking this was all “good for the Jews,” whereas the Israelis wanted to put a limit on this global Sunni Jihad rampage thang. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 10:59 utc | 31 30) I find Assad’s explanation that the confrontation between Shiites and Sunnis was invented to counter the Iranian revolution quite convincing though obviously theological differences have accompanied political ones throughout. Let’s say the theological differences between Sunnis and Shias are not insurmountable (less than between protestants and catholics) but the bar can be raised if so desired (and theologians have to eat). Sunnis are quite diverse themselves. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 11:39 utc | 32 plus 30 It’s absurd to claim that the MBs are accepting towards Shi’ism. Especially now, when they’re up to their necks in sectarian killing all over Asia. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 11:41 utc | 33 Saudi prince defects from Royal Family
Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 11:56 utc | 34 Hmmm. I traced that back from defense.pk forums to al-Alam.ir, but looking at the latter, I see things I frankly don’t believe, such as that Israel is selling heavy artillery and tanks to the Syrian rebels: Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 12:06 utc | 35 34, you can have Turkish Hürriyet as a source if you prefer that.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 12:31 utc | 36 It’s perhaps significant that this story was originally headlined “Egypt’s New Nasser?” but the headline has now been changed. You can see a link to the old headline at the bottom of this story, in the “Read more on this issue” section, right above the comments. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 12:32 utc | 37 Barry has just declared that the US won the Korean war ‘for 50 million koreans living in freedom’ Posted by: heath | Jul 28 2013 12:34 utc | 38 Check this photo: Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 13:32 utc | 39 @somebody #19 39) That is what I meant. Gates was blatantly lying whilst saying frankly, truth and honest. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 14:34 utc | 41 The talk about religion is mildly interesting from a theological viewpoint, but the real issues concern political and economic power. National governments and political parties, not religions drive events. Who will control the countries in the region? Oil and gas. Who will make money off the Gulf gas field? It’s Iran and Russia and the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, the big dogs in the fight. Theology? Not so much. On religion, simply look at the U.S. The government uses religion to promote its interests. So we have prayer breakfasts, In God (i.e. Government) We Trust, military chaplains, the whole gamut of religious tools that the government uses to exert and disseminate control over its citizens and foreigners, when they can. If it weren’t Christianity, it would be some other religion, the government doesn’t care. And so elsewhere, because Americans aren’t so special in this regard. Good rant from a new player on Acronynym TV. Worth a listen. Posted by: ben | Jul 28 2013 15:20 utc | 45 The US has told Afghanistan that the Bilateral Security Pact must be signed by October. Good luck on that. First there must be a Status Of Forces Agreement (SOFA), and also the Afghans’ terms must be met, and the terms require opposition attacks to disappear when in fact they are increasing.
@heath #37
The war has not ended, although there was an armistice sixty years ago. There are 28,500 U.S. troops stationed on more than 100 bases stretching from the DMZ south to the port city of Busan. Plans call for consolidating the troops onto fewer than 50 bases, with the majority stationed in regional hubs in the areas around Pyeongtaek/Osan and Daegu. If the people of Israel were not using electric voting machines, I would applaud this decision: Posted by: ben | Jul 28 2013 15:50 utc | 48 Afghans are mostly illiterate, but they’re not mostly stupid. On U.S. aims, they get it.
Don @ 18, Thanks so much for the link. Neoliberal divide and conquer playbook spelled out so clearly. The Egyptians should seriously consider massive general strikes next. Just stop, sit down, whether in the streets or nay… shut down the country. Obviously all sides allowed to be considered at this point should not be considered at all. And what do the people of Egypt (and elsewhere) do about an entirely corrupt court system? Posted by: Eureka Springs | Jul 28 2013 16:12 utc | 50 There was an actual meaningful (if not sensible) discussion on teevee today, it appears.
@Don Bacon #17 Posted by: Crone | Jul 28 2013 17:08 utc | 52 Syrian army ‘makes key gains in Homs’
Kalidiya was their lifeline. Cut off they will soon give up. Fox News interviewer can’t handle a good scientist:
Catholics outraged over the death of a hermit and sisters of their faith by US and Israeli backed rebels in Syria It’s believed that Maroud a hermit was shot to death while defending many of the religious sisters from the US backed rebels. The monastery that gave them shelter was attacked and pillaged on June 23. The situation is unclear or what exactly being done to the sisters, as you know these men are guilty of rape, mutilation, eating hearts and other heinous crimes on innocent people. I do not even want to think or imagine what harm is being done to them. The world has gone mad and american politicians look like the worst people on earth for supporting the terror in Syria. http://rt.com/news/syrian-priest-rebel-attack-320/ Posted by: brian | Jul 28 2013 17:37 utc | 55 news headline Don keeps saying religion is not a factor in real politics, but I think he’s wrong. It’s a mass psychological factor of incalculable importance. And in its arch-hypocritical way, the US is going to launch a global crusade for religious freedom, except it won’t really be global, it will be highly selective, naturally. “Today, when religious freedom in many parts of the world is under siege, one of the aims of US foreign policy should be to combat such intolerance.” Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 28 2013 18:26 utc | 57 57) Agree, religion is most powerful, it is how we are taught to interpret the world as children, there is no way to shake that influence off in later life. And there are things most people aren’t strong enough to handle without religion – like death. Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 18:54 utc | 58 @RB #57 “No human being is truly rational.” “–In 2008 there were 234 million working age Americans and 145 million of them were employed. Today there are 243 million working age Americans and 142 million of them are employed. Posted by: bevin | Jul 28 2013 19:14 utc | 61 59) Now about those ecclesiastical differences between Free Will Baptists, Seventh Day Baptists and Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists … Posted by: somebody | Jul 28 2013 19:24 utc | 62 Homs is secure, aided by the Qusayr victory, Aleppo is next. Israel, ever helpful, has announced a 50 million dollar arms deal to supply Saudi Arabia with weapons and equipment for the insurgency in Syria.
Ramadan: Jul 8 – Aug 7
@23 “Qaradawi declared that the jihad in Syria against Assad and his Shiite backers — primarily, Iran-backed Hezbollah — is a duty for every able-bodied Muslim who is trained to fight.” Posted by: ruralito | Jul 28 2013 19:50 utc | 65 They are looking for, not a fight, but lots of little outbursts of anger to be suppressed, in an exemplary fashion. . . .there are no new jobs because there is no job creation.
headline, BBC News
To the economic comments: I thought this was an extremely poignant view of the changes that the United States has undergone in the last 30 years:
Posted by: guest77 | Jul 29 2013 0:16 utc | 69 @69 Posted by: guest77 | Jul 29 2013 1:12 utc | 70 @ben Posted by: guest77 | Jul 29 2013 2:03 utc | 71
Don, reductio ad absurdum is something the government do rather a lot. That should warn you not to do it. You seem to be defending yourself against a personal fear of the irrational. Consider the suicide bomber. You may maintain that the majority of suicide bombers are motivated simply and solely by the promise of their recruiter that after the execution of their mission, he will give their families a large lump sum. I don’t find that convincing, myself. Consider also the composition of the death squads. It makes rather a substantial difference whether they have military targets, or whether consider it their job to kill civilians of other sects indiscriminately. The decision as to which their policy shall be is doubtless determined by men with money, but it is not a non-religious decision. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 29 2013 4:26 utc | 72 It’s a given that “The American Dream” was a dream. For one thing, the US high-consumption high-refuse economy is unsustainable for the health of the earth. But the corresponding adjustments are, and will be, difficult. People who are used to living in large homes may have to accommodate to trailer living, and other down-scale changes. People who are used to taking a job will have to learn how to make a job for themselves, which is the case for most people in the world. 71)you are right guest77, the video in the comments is an interesting video Posted by: somebody | Jul 29 2013 7:02 utc | 74 @74 Posted by: guest77 | Jul 29 2013 10:52 utc | 75 75) I found the distinction between “there is nothing more dangerous than armed men with utopian dreams” and “a broad and abstract vision based on principles” quite intriguing. Posted by: somebody | Jul 29 2013 11:34 utc | 76 Well, after browsing around from that video back to the makers, all I can say is, this is totally phony, Madison-Ave-type scripting: Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 29 2013 12:27 utc | 77 Jub, you told us earlier you were a member of AIPAC. What is it about Nostradamus you find so inspiring? Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 29 2013 12:59 utc | 79 I am sorry for asking such a question, but: Where are the actual written documents and evidences which back Snowdens allegations? Did he just “say the NSA does this and this” (guardian, greenwald interview) or has he released at least some kind of written document in which he specifies what exactly he witnessed and who exactly did it? Id be happy for any hint. Ciao Posted by: Kal | Jul 29 2013 13:11 utc | 80 The slides, Kal. Many appeared in WaPo, some in Guardian, some in the Brazilian paper O Globo. All the slides are marked Top Secret. When the first batch appeared, some people remarked that they were very amateurishly made, which is true. But I don’t think that’s unusual, and I’ve seen lots of military briefing slides. Strictly speaking they aren’t slides, they’re PowerPoint images. Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 29 2013 13:23 utc | 81 @guest77 #75 I am sorry for asking such a question, but: Where are the actual written documents and evidences which back Snowdens allegations? Here’s a map of Sinai, showing US military base and terror incidents. Good news department-
#81, It is the equality, solidarity part that is missing from the freedom part in the US. Posted by: somebody | Jul 29 2013 17:01 utc | 86 “It is the equality, solidarity part that is missing from the freedom part in the US.” Posted by: bevin | Jul 29 2013 17:59 utc | 87 @81,83 thanx.I think its bizarre those slides arent shown (even if theyre sealed bla) around the world. There is something disturbing about snowden. I went to a rally in my german hometown on saturday, and political parties, representing the controlled opposition such as die linke, die Grünen und natürlich die Piraten were shouting out slogans like “edward snowden is our hero” and “stop stop watching us”. The speeches at the end of the rally were watered down fluffy-feel-good stuff, nothing subversive whatsoever. One guy who held a speech even said “we can be thankful the americans were protecting us from terrorist attack after 9/11 BUT, now enough is enough, yada yada”…I still think snowden is a good PR/ limited hangout. Apparently noone cares about it. We were about 400 in a city of 200.000 to take to the streets. Usual sheeples were lookin with that IDontKnowWhatToDo-Grin… Posted by: Kal | Jul 29 2013 18:16 utc | 88 They may not be shown on TV – I don’t have a TV, so I don’t know. But I have accepted for a long time that people who don’t take the trouble to look for things on the Internet just won’t find out about them. As it is, they are rather too scattered for my taste: When I wrote 81 I tried to find the collected slides (to go on calling them that) on WaPo and Guardian but they didn’t seem to have had the good sense to collect them all at one URL and mark it. But let me just show you some which I copied: Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 29 2013 18:45 utc | 89 @89, thnx, ive been searching the inet for it, and all it came up with “Snowden released documents”, “he has files”, “Snowden has had access to classified documents”…But anyway thanks! Posted by: Kal | Jul 29 2013 19:53 utc | 90 Al Jazeera, Mohammed Ayoob
@Kal: The slides are not sealed, Rowan was referring to the idicment against Snowden. The slides are widely available. See: https://www.google.com/search?q=snowden+slides&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PxH3UeG1BJS24AO7l4DYBg&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1171&bih=959 Posted by: guest77 | Jul 30 2013 1:26 utc | 92 @ guest77 #92
I could quote Thoreau forever. Have you read Walden recently? That’s the way I live, in my trailer, and I recommend it. (I was living in a VW bus for 5 years when I met my woman, and she upscaled me.) I’ve been on this orb for 76 years, so I think I’m qualified to give advice. No doubt you will too, when you’re “elderly” also. Hah. The problem with “the rich” is that, in order to protect their gains (which are almost invariably ‘ill-gotten’), they corrupt society. Posted by: bevin | Jul 30 2013 2:48 utc | 94 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 28, 2013 3:33:39 PM | 63 Posted by: brian | Jul 30 2013 5:00 utc | 95 #93 from Thoreau, Walden
There is also the Thoreau who came out in support of John Brown. I Posted by: somebody | Jul 30 2013 12:33 utc | 96
No, I was referring to the slides, because that’s what Kal asked about. S/he didn’t ask, “what is the evidence they’ve got against Snowden,” s/he asked:
In other words, what evidence did Snowden offer? And the answer is, the slides, of which there are apparently 41 in total, and of which we have seen so far, I think, 10. This is the original story, from before Snowden even identified himself. It says “slides and supporting materials”:
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 30 2013 13:30 utc | 97 Posted by: Eureka Springs | Jul 28, 2013 3:20:43 PM | 7 Posted by: brian | Jul 30 2013 16:59 utc | 98 @somebody #96 Where is all the media hype of the latest massacre in Syria? well, maybe this explains… Posted by: too many wtf | Jul 30 2013 17:51 utc | 100 |
||