|
Egypt: Today’s Developments
A big thanks to all the commentators in the recent Egypt threads. The discussion is lively and that is as it should be. Please hold off with ad hominems.
To continue, some points from today's after-the-coup news from Egypt.
There were attacks on army installations in the Sinai and some soldiers died there. This is pretty much off the radar in the news but will play a big role in the thinking and planing of the Egyptian military. Sinai is pretty wild in terms of Jihadi activities, there are lost of weapons there and is also of economic concern.
The Supreme Guide of the Brotherhood Badie was not, as was reported yesterday, incarcerated. Two other high MB leaders were released by the police. Former president Morsi is seemingly still in army custody.
The MB staged rallies all over Egypt today. There is little news of what is happening in the periphery even though that may, in the end, be more important than what is happening in Cairo. In Alexandria MB followers clashed with other demonstrators and also with the army. In upper Egypt an MB crowd tried to storm an orthodox church but was pushed off by army soldiers. In Cairo a demonstration was held at an army place where, allegedly, Morsi is held. The army told the protesters to stand off. Most of them did and MB guides tried to hold them back. But some tried to get to the concertina wire and were shot at. One to three where, reportedly, killed.
A quite big demonstration took place at the Rabaa mosque where the MB had a big stage and where many of the MB higher ups, including the supreme guide, held fierce speeches. From the TV pictures I saw I estimate the crowd there at 100-150,000 max. While the speakers called for peaceful protests they also added quite a bit of toxic sectarian poison. Not only against Copts but also against Al-Azhar, the Islamic high university, and against some Salafist groups. The general idea: The MB are the victims and everyone else is the enemy. The crowd got fired up. No one tried to calm it down.
In the evening groups of MB followers approached the bridges at Maspero towards Tahrir Square which led to a hefty clashes with anti-MB protesters who hold on to Tahrir. Neither the police nor the military intervened at this time. This is likely to get more ugly throughout the night.
The army seems, in general, to hold back and stay defensive. But throughout the day it made a lot of "show of force" noise by sending helicopters and jets into the sky over Cairo. Wasn't there some petroleum shortage? The army's message is: "We will let you protest but be reminded that it is us who have the heavy weapons."
My general impression is that the army is not seeking a fight and allows the MB followers to let off their steam. There is no sign of any harsh suppression so far but that may change anytime.
The silence of the "west" towards this military coup may well be the end of the neoconned "democracy promotion" campaigns we have seen over the last two decades. The hypocrisy is now so obviously stinking that any future mentioning of "democratic principles" in the Middle East by some sanctimonious "westerner" will be rightfully laughed off. The fall of the MB in Cairo has already a dampening effect on the "western" backed Syrian opposition.
“Yes, Israel is the clearly the winner here.”
No doubt many Israelis feel this, but they are wrong. So far we do not have a result, so we cannot proclaim winners or losers, but, in general terms, nothing is worse news for zionists than signs that Arabs are taking an interest in politics. The people of Egypt are awake, and before they settle down again they will have something to say about Israel’s behaviour.
Arnold, the vague semi-statistics that you regularly cite are wearing a bit thin: not only did very few people vote for Morsi, (about five out of eighty millions) but among those who did were all opposed to the re-election, in effect, of Mubarak.
And then there is the nature of the debate preceding the vote and the campaigning, neither of which was particularly edifying. And could not be said to have constituted a mandate. A popularity poll, maybe but not a mandate to govern.
You say: “It’s naive and flat out wrong to think this “all began” with an enormous outpouring of anger.”
But of course it did begin in precisely that way, In Alexandria, as I recall, and a couple of years ago.
The problem is that you have misunderstood what has been occurring: the revolutionary process which led to Mubarak’s fall, has been continuous and has now led to Morsi’s fall. Others too, including, perhaps, brother Baradei, will fall before this is over. There are many layers of compradors, poseurs, wannabe statesmen and clapped out international civil servants, to be worked through before we get down to something new, interesting and Egyptian.
Such is the nature of revolutions, and, when tens of millions of people, most of whom have never climbed upon the political stage before, are involved they need time and experimentation before they decide upon what sort of government, economy, educational system, justice, etc it is that they want.
And that is putting aside the complication that others, external forces, imperialists, for example, will interfere and try to shape the course that events take. Which will lead to reactions from Egyptians.
Revolution is a very complex process. Your world appears to be a very simple one, in which parties contest elections, votes are counted, winners proclaimed and, after a brief interval, the campaigning begins again for the next quadrennial or septennial event. Welcome to the real world: it is much more interesting than bourgeois kabuki productions.
Posted by: bevin | Jul 6 2013 2:54 utc | 40
@Arnold Evans | Jul 6, 2013 12:09:43 AM | 43, I see where you wiggling, bevin 44 gave a better narrative that I would have done, I am not that tactful. Just to point out: ‘To consider’- ‘C’; billion given to ‘Morsi’ by the US, so same shit, no better than the last, in fact Mosri took lots of kickbacks, not just the US ‘Again’, so he dad no loyalties other than suppressing those who spoke out. Going back, with 15+ million in poverty ($1 a day), and another 20 million just surviving, with less than 50% voting and from the voters were a great percentage who just wanted MB out, the whole process was nothing to do with democracy other than going through the motions of democracy, since nothing improved, it just got tighter. Then to reply – 1. “The revolutionary process which led to Mubarak’s fall, has been continuous and has now led to Morsi’s fall.” is spot on. All that got dumped on top was ‘Islamic’ and Brotherhood, more controls and more isolation. Even if you have a Islamic culture, is it right to enforce this on all, the new and old?
As for “The only thing that counts is your assessment of protests, even though you’re not Egyptian”. Are you, and where do you live? Hypocrite!
You have an extreme hate for anything other than your ideals that ‘Must’ be taken on board. As for you assertion; Islamophobia, (A repeating that anal one liner, do you sand in front of as mirror doing it?) a typical ‘Playing card’, you’re as fake as they come, riding a supposed intellectual white horse but exude toxic fumes from textbook referencing and possibly suffer from Xenophobia.
The reality is we all are bias, we all are not equals, we all are nationalistic, just in varying degrees; so call a spade a spade rather than pursue the victim blame game and sling mud as if you’re a saint, your not, you are just a arse -I know a crippled, black, gay Muslim who had an abused childhood, displaced and works to assist minorities that has more moral fiber in his little finger than you, and never plays ‘his’ armory of ‘Cards’, and he could. Its people with your ideals that excluding your own from economic, social, and public life, inside and out, what you are enforcing is utter segregation, nothing is inclusive or choice.
Posted by: kev | Jul 6 2013 5:28 utc | 51
|
