Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 09, 2013

Egypt: Today's Developments

Some developments in Egypt:

Over night the Supreme Command of the Armed Forces put out a new constitutional declaration and the path to a rewritten constitution and new elections. A first analysis shows that it is along the line of the not well written old constitution but with some changes that the Salafis had demanded. It is not good on rights and vague on essentials. The winner here are the judges, the military and the Salafis. There were some rather candid comments about this process and the "liberal" organizers of the protests that brought the coup called it "dictatorial".

There is a list of some 16 senior Muslim Brotherhood leaders that the army had put under house arrest or arrested.

The New Yorker found a witness who saw yesterday's shooting in Cairo in which some 50 people lost their life. It seems that indeed the army was attacked by some unknown men on motorcycles who did not belong to the Muslim Brother demonstrators who were holding a sit in. The army then shot back and likely in error hit lots of demonstrators. There are surely several parties who might have had a motive to instigate this clash.

A former finance minister was named for the premier minister position and former IAEA official ElBaradei was named as vice president for foreign affairs.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE promised $8 billion, partly as gift, partly as loan, for the Egyptian state and economy. The lasted offer from Qatar before the coup against Morsi was $5 billion. Egypt should reject all such offers.

Twenty-two AlJazeerah staff have resigned over the channels partisan pro-Muslim Brotherhood reporting on Egypt.

Posted by b on July 9, 2013 at 16:55 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Strange allies emerging over the Egypt coup. Both Saudi Arabia and Syria on the same side cheering the coup. Both Turkey and Iran condemning the coup.

Iran’s stance factors in that the coup strengthens the Israeli hand. The overthrow of the Muslim Brotherhood government weakens Hamas, which works in Israel’s favor. Besides, Israel has longstanding ties with the Egyptian military and security establishment and the Mubarak-era elites who are now on the ascendancy in Cairo.

But maybe Iran is being wise by offering to side with an isolated Turkey. Turkey is watching all its allies (EU, US, Saudi) supporting the military coup against a democratically elected Islamist party. It might be time for Turkey to shift closer to the resistance camp.

Without doubt, the resounding statement by Iran on Monday condemning the Egyptian military and alleging Western and Israeli involvement in the coup strengthens Erdogan's platform. Whereas he seemed a lone campaigner so far, Tehran's decision to join hands changes the matrix.

The two key regional powers in the Middle East have now openly challenged the military junta in Egypt. It will have a profound impact on the so-called Arab Street. A Turkish-Iranian platform will be hard to resist, in geopolitical terms, for the coup's Arab enthusiasts - Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, principally. For Israel too, the sense of jubilation may prove short-lived. Israel's best hope is that the coup in Egypt would split the Muslim Middle East, but from all appearances, ironically, it might end up unifying the forces of Islamism in the region.

Erdogan must be reviewing where he stands amoung the regional axis. He sided openly with the US-Israel-Saudi axis against Russia-Iran. But now the Syria war is going badly spreading refugees and instability into southern Turkey, moreover he supposed allies rushed to condemn him for his brutal crackdowns on protesters, then the EU snubbed him again in membership talks, and now it takes opposing sides with him over Egypt.

Maybe he should shift positions again. After all if one democratically elected Islamist can be removed from the Presidency by the military whats to stop another?

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Jul 9 2013 19:28 utc | 1

You've seen the clips of the snipers on the low roof, accompanied by a videographer who seems absolutely unworried about standing fully exposed for long periods filming. They're pretty obviously army; one of them is even wearing an army forage cap. I was worrying about these guys, because it sure looked as if they were firing into the crowd, in order to provoke those in the crowd with arms (probably only fards, which are village-made birdshot guns, but anyway), to provoke them to fire at the troops, which would certainly provoke the troops into firing back, and this seemed pretty evil. But supposing the army snipers on the low roof were shooting at the motorcycle guys (whom no-one appears to have managed to video, incidentally)?

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 9 2013 19:30 utc | 2


Heart-Eating Cannibal Demands Obama Send Weapons

“If we don’t get help, a no-fly zone, heavy weapons, we will do worse [than I did]. You’ve seen nothing yet.”

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
July 9, 2013
The Syrian rebel fighter who infamously cut out and bit into the heart of a dead soldier has threatened to commit even worse atrocities if the Obama administration doesn’t send the FSA heavy weaponry and impose a no fly zone over Syria
etc
http://www.infowars.com/heart-eating-cannibal-demands-obama-send-weapons/

Posted by: brian | Jul 9 2013 21:53 utc | 3

@Rowan Berkeley | Jul 9, 2013 3:30:46 PM | 2, If they (Military) had a cameraman, as it looks that way, it could suggest they are filming at what they are hitting, in that, I suspect this will be footage that will be released at some point, also evidence/suspect mapping (Participants, ringleaders, activists) and it might just show who is shooting who and for what - Then again it could be recording future 'Targeted arrests'(Participants, ringleaders, activists)?

As to 'only fards' - they are 12 & 16 gauge shotguns, a shot gun blast is a shotgun blast, there were many with small arms (Handguns) also with footage of small arm fire into ‘Responders’ - I don’t see the evil in shooting someone shooting at you or your men, that is simply an expected response, and if you are a provocateur of such actions, you would be the most likely target.

Evil - Chucking teens or anyone off roof tops then beating them to death if they are not already dead, now that is evil and not a known Egyptian MO - Or am I wrong? Just to fact check, one of the peaceful protesters was carrying the al-Qaeda flag during this incident and Pro-Morsi.

At the end of the day a peaceful sit-in was just a human shields for attacks on strategic targets across Egypt planned and carried out by the Brotherhood’s armed underground Al-Gihas al-Sirri, that to is 'Evil'.

On the other front; Syria and due to Egypt’s escalations - Iran and Moscow are now accelerating military aid and arms with focus to quell the battle for Aleppo. Assad turned down a proposal by UN Secretary Ban Ki-moon’s and the new Syrian opposition president Ahmad Jabra to declare a bilateral ceasefire for the month of Ramadan, and simply because the last Ramadan it made no difference and knowing this is a delay tactic – Hit them while its hot, and do it hard!

Posted by: kev | Jul 10 2013 2:09 utc | 4

Yes kev, well, another thing that struck me both times I watched the better of the two clips I've found of the low roof snipers is that the most prominent sniper appeared to be aiming high, well over the crowd in the square below, and in fact higher than the person shooting the clip, though this person was 30 or 40 degrees off the axis the sniper was aiming along, which is why one could see the angle of the sniper's rifle. Here are the two clips I have found showing these rooftop guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eq0Lq2--Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQrM51nJYtQ

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 10 2013 3:54 utc | 5

Even in Libya Egyptians have celebrated the fall of Morsi!
http://www.libyaherald.com/2013/07/04/border-closed-after-muslim-brotherhood-head-tries-to-flee-egypt/

(The article has interesting insights on the catastrophic economic management of Morsi that we won't read in the Western press)

Posted by: Mina | Jul 10 2013 5:29 utc | 6

6) Probably for the wrong reasons i.e. being more radical. Morsy's economic management - he did not dare to take the austerity measures the World Bank demands and was faced with "fleeing" investment - any Social Democrat can tell you what that means.

I think the issue who shot Muslim Brotherhood protesters is clear now

the videos are coming out

here is amnesty's take

Will the new government fight to make the army accountable? They will find themselves in front of a gun when their time comes.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 6:22 utc | 7

Declaration by 15 Egyptian human rights organizations

The undersigned organizations emphasize the responsibility of police and army forces in providing protection to all protestors, the supporters of the deposed president and his opponents alike.

At the same time, the undersigned organizations strongly condemn the ongoing incitement to violence and killing by the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters, and their encouragement of widespread clashes to further complicate the political scene. We condemn all forms of violence committed by some segments of the Muslim Brotherhood and allied Islamist groups in Manial and Maspero in Cairo and in the Sidi Gaber area in Alexandria.

We also condemn those violations that targeted the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters in Sidi Beshr, El Zgazig and some other regions, and the incitement against them in some media outlets.

The undersigned organizations stress the need to expose the circumstances surrounding yesterday’s dawn clashes and hold all those involved accountable. We stress that a fair, independent investigation into the massacre requires the participation of independent human rights organizations and entails the release of the findings to the public immediately, bearing in mind the politicization of the Egyptian judiciary under the rule of Mubarak and the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Also the practices of the Muslim Brotherhood and the deposed president over the last year have further compromised the integrity of the judiciary and the investigating authorities, dividing judges and making the judiciary a victim of political and ideological polarization.

The investigating committee should be comprised of judicial and rights figures known for their professionalism and impartiality, in order to win the respect of all parties and avoid challenges to its final report. We urge all parties, including the Muslim Brotherhood and its partisans, to support and welcome this demand.

Again, we urge to cease all forms of incitement to violence and murder, and refrain from undermining the civic peace. The continued incitement to bloodshed will make it practically impossible to re-launch a comprehensive political process that will lead Egypt to achieve the revolution's targets.


Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 6:48 utc | 8

and this here from Mursy's security reign - no citizen can accept something like that:

March 17, 2013

Egypt may replace police with private security companies

Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood group he once led has sought to co-opt the largely anti-Islamist interior ministry during their time in power, deploying them to use the same methods as their dictatorial predecessor and abandoning calls for police reform.

But the moves have apparently backfired. Police conscripts admit they are ill-equipped to patrol the nation’s increasingly restive cities, given the rising anger, and that the country’s slide into chaos needs radical political prescriptions.

Now, the Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) is spearheading the drafting of a law that would allow private security companies to control the population, possibly as a bid to sideline an increasingly unfriendly police force.

And its Islamist allies in the southern province Assiut — the former militant group, Gama’a Islamiya — are forming motorcycle-riding committees that blare Quran verses to monitor security there.

“Most protests do not need a security solution, but a political solution, which we cannot provide,” said Farag Ahmed Farag, a riot policeman who helped organize strikes in Cairo. “We definitely provoke more anger on the streets. When we are there, the protesters become more violent. We just want to be able to confront thugs and criminals.”

In Garden City, an upscale Cairo quarter just south of Tahrir Square that hosts the US Embassy, residents and shopkeepers say their lives are plagued by insecurity, both political and criminal.

“There is no security here. There are thefts and fights break out,” said 27-year-old Hazem Al Azaz, a local grocer. The Qasr Al Nil police station, which early last week temporarily halted its strike, is just blocks from his shop.

“Since the revolution, the police have not done their job,” he said. “We cannot see a difference between when they are on strike and when they are working.”

But the prospect of private security contractors — which operate outside the command and control structure of the interior ministry — arriving to police the area deeply worries Al Azaz and his neighbors.

According to a senior Brotherhood leader in Alexandria, Ahmed Al Nahhas, the justice ministry would issue special permits to security companies to procure arms and make arrests.

Nahhas says citizens would be able to appeal to the public prosecution in the event of any abuses by security contractors.

But, he says, “I don’t really understand how it would work.”

That inspires little faith among rights groups, who add that both the justice ministry and attorney general have taken a more active role in helping cover up police abuses.

“[Justice Minister] Ahmed Mekki made it very clear to us: he is unabashedly pro-police, and he denies systematic torture and abuse” among security forces, said Karim Medhat Ennarah, security sector researcher at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.

As a result, rights groups say, it is unlikely prosecutors will adequately investigate mercenaries with an already ambiguous legal status.

“Nobody will accept militias on the streets — this is completely unacceptable,” said 20-year-old Ehab Qandil, who sells snacks and cigarettes in Garden City. “They will cause problems and the people will clash with them. They have no authority.”

Egyptians say they would much rather see a better-equipped and reformed police force return to the streets than have law-and-order fall into the hands of vigilantes.

“The police have to change their behavior. But the police have to stay the police,” said Mustafa, the fruit vendor. “Nobody can secure the street except for the government.”

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 7:09 utc | 9

re 9

no citizen can accept something like that:

You don't evoke the obvious argument that the army and the police didn't really support Mursi, were not cooperating with his government, and were not doing their job.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 10 2013 9:31 utc | 10

@Rowan Berkeley | Jul 9, 2013 11:54:58 PM | 5, Its security, or staged, not Mil or a Sniper by definition - No optics, it’s an AK with iron sights, also had no stock, so not Mil issue or would it be a sniper, just the wrong kit for a Sniper.

Pro-Morsi demonstrators were armed and filmed firing at the Egyptian army. In fact it was pro-Morsi peeps that seemed to know where to film and when. One gunman (Hand gun) was pot shooting at riot police that were armed with batons and a shield, no side or long arms.

The footage is piss poor and if I am not mistaken the AK (Shooter 1) is silver, so 100% not mil issue. 26 sec, his face is covered in a cloth (If the same guy) improvised balaclava. The fire is also sporadic, never the same place or angle, in fact not aiming, just ‘motioning’ , they are not acting in any Mil coordinated action, and not targeting anyone even if hitting?

Then 1:20+ more people, one with a parker and hooded taking direct pot shots in the direction of the guy filming, then in civvies a cameraman films the carnage, take his time in doing so also. They are then joined by more, all scrappily dressed, taking a peek. In all and looking closely, no muzzle flash or recoil, not even sure if this was just blanks, or simply ‘imagery’ to simulate shooting and covering the real shooters? Looking for Dr. reports, most were gunshot wounds, others direct hits and not from elevated positions or distance.

The crux of this event is why would the Mil do this? They have nothing to gain and if they did want to take out via sniper fire they do have the gear far better suited and not so obvious. It is also known MB peeps are in the Army, and have been used to act in a manner to disrupt or harm the Army image.

Looks all like a staged and intended scene.

Posted by: kev | Jul 10 2013 10:31 utc | 11

#10) Don't you think a political leader then has to admit openly that he does not have the power he claims, has to team up with other parties that are potential allies against unchecked army and police power, call for the public to support the alliance, instead of trying to install private militias, Iraq or Libyan style?

As is, Morsy probably brought Egypt back to square 1, unchecked military dictatorship with the added benefit of the frightened public this time fully supporting the military, and only human right groups and a few "useful fools" supporting the victims.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 10:35 utc | 12

'Hariri has come out to directly implicate Israel in today’s attack – accusing the Jewish state of staging a grotesque bombing in order to inflame an already simmering political divide between Sunnis and Shias in Lebanon. The Daily Star reported Hariri’s bold statement today:

“[The blast] requires the highest level of awareness and vigilance in the face of dangers that surround the country and the entire region, especially while facing attempts by the Israeli enemy to push [Lebanon] to strife by organizing terrorist attacks, as happened today”.'
http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/07/09/car-bomb-rips-through-south-beirut-former-lebanese-pm-blames-israel/

Posted by: brian | Jul 10 2013 10:45 utc | 13

#1 Welcome to the Middle East, there is an interesting Afghan theory about frogs jumping from one side of the balance to an other just when you are going to weight something.

#10 The army was certainly doing its job at the borders and in coping for the anesthesized police (except when killing people at Maspero and elsewhere); a policeman, when called, was usually seeing a miraculous reconciliation of the two fighting persons who would then agree to beat him "for once".
Did the MB "do their job" by not letting the police and army act against the Bedouins who kidnapped people (both Egyptians and non Egyptians) in Sinai? Did they when they had no word for mob-lynchings in villages? Did they when conscript soldiers were regularly killed in Rafah/al Arish with no move to tackle the djihadist propaganda in Sinai?

What about the project of privatising the Suez Canal and giving the biggest share to Qatar? What about the reaction to Ethiopia's dam?

Posted by: Mina | Jul 10 2013 10:45 utc | 14

14) bet that someone else will do this project now :-)9

It sounds reasonable actually, depends on negotiated conditions. I guess Saudi Arabia or UAE will do it now.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 11:11 utc | 15

Interesting take on the current state of the Egyptian economy by an insider
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/3/12/76114/Business/Economy/QA-Egypt-economist-Samir-Radwan-on-postMorsi-econo.aspx

Posted by: Mina | Jul 10 2013 11:26 utc | 16

@kev | Jul 10, 2013 6:31:58 AM | 11 -- OK, I yield to your superior expertise there. Unless of course they were genuine govt troops deliberately using non govt issue rifles to avoid incriminating evidence of army issue bullets turning up in civilian demonstrators' corpses. But all this is academic, because Mina's Afghan frog (see Mina | Jul 10, 2013 6:45:25 AM | 14) won't jump to the other side of the scales and give us some footage of these mysterious gunmen on motorcycles, who are the logical targets of any govt fire. All I can find is this, of rather isolated pedestrian snipers, which has a Russia Today logo on it and presumably has been retransmitted all over the globe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aiP-vu677A

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 10 2013 12:00 utc | 17

So now the military dictatorship will arrest MB leaders.

http://presstv.com/detail/2013/07/10/313172/egypt-orders-arrest-of-mb-leaders/

Coup lovers will of course hail it.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 10 2013 12:05 utc | 18

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3924/muslim_brotherhood_activists_recruited_syrians_and_palestinians_to_shoot_at_anti_morsi_protestors#.Udzs4hpcSA4.facebookMuslim Brotherhood activists recruited Syrians and Palestinians to shoot at anti-Morsi protestors
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood is being investigated for recruiting Palestinian and Syrian fighters to fire shotguns at anti-Morsi protestors

Following an investigation conducted by Egypt's Qasr al-Nil Public Prosecution, the Egypt Independent newspaper has reported that the Muslim Brotherhood recruited Palestinians and Syrians to fire at protestors opposed to the rule of the now desposed Mohammed Morsi.

While details are yet to become clear, various examples were noted by the Public Prosecution, including the case of Mohamed Hassan al-Berdkany, a Syrian who was recruited to fire at protestors from the Qasr al-Nil Bridge, just a few hundreds metres away from Tahrir Square in Cairo.

Berdkany said he had fled the fighting in Syria and had come with his family to Cairo, wherein he met a young Syrian man named Ahmed al-Soury who was responsible for gathering Syrians to take part in the protests the Muslim Brotherhood was organising at Nahdet Misr Square.

Berdkany revealed that he used to meet with members of the Brotherhood in an apartment in 6th October City. There, he would meet with a local leader of the Syrian community who took him to another apartment where a number of young members of the Brotherhood were staying.

The Brotherhood members asked him to join them in their protests in return for 500 Egyptian Pounds (£47/$71) for each protest he would take part in.

Berdkany also stated that the head of the Palestinian community who paid Palestinians to protest for the Brotherhood is named Bassel al-Feroun. Their meetings also took place in an apartment in 6th October City and each participant was handed a shotgun and paid to go join the Brotherhood protests in Nahdet Misr Square, he said.

The prosecution has asked intelligence, national security, and criminal investigation authorities to conduct their own investigations to determine the movements of Berdkany and to uncover the identities of the suspects involved in the case.

Posted by: brian | Jul 10 2013 12:15 utc | 19

18) problem is, they seem to have called for martyrdom - which is incitement to violence, no?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 12:17 utc | 20

somebody

yeah those evool moosslems!

You should read Amnesty report and stop excite yourself with islamophobic nonsense.

http://presstv.com/detail/2013/07/10/313178/amnesty-raps-egypt-armys-use-of-force/

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 10 2013 12:33 utc | 21

Tariq Ramadan (grandson of the MB founder)

Egypt : Coup d’État, Act II

The Egyptian army has not returned to politics for the simple reason that it has never left. The fall of Hosni Mubarak was a military coup d’État that allowed a new generation of officers to enter the political scene in a new way, from behind the curtain of a civilian government. In an article published on June 29 2012 I noted an Army high command declaration that the presidential election was temporary, for a six-month to one-year period (its title made the premonition explicit : “An election for nothing ?”). The American administration had monitored the entire process : its objective ally in Egypt over the past fifty years has been the army, not the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). The latest revelations (see the International Herald Tribune , July 5, and Le Monde, July 6) confirm what was already clear : the decision to overthrow President Mohamed Morsi had been made well before June 30. A conversation between President Morsi and General al-Sisi indicated that the head of the country’s military had planned the overthrow and imprisonment of the president weeks before the popular upheaval that would justify the military coup “in the name of the people’s will.” A clever strategy ! Orchestrate demonstrations involving millions of people in order to make believe that the army truly cares about the people ! Coup d’État, second act.
...
President Morsi cannot be fairly criticized for not doing all he could to establish relations with the opposition, either by inviting it to join the government or to take part in a broad national dialogue. But his approaches were rejected out of hand, with the opposition bitterly opposing his every initiative. The fact remains, however, that his management of the business of state, his failure to listen to the voice of the people and even to some of his trusted advisors, his exclusivist relationship with the highest echelons of the MB leadership, his hasty and ill-considered decisions (some of which he later acknowledged as errors) must be unsparingly criticized. But on a more fundamental level, his greatest fault has been the utter absence of a political vision and the lack of clearly established political and economic priorities, his failure to struggle against corruption and poverty, and his egregious mismanagement of social and educational affairs.

Recommended reading - though I do not agree with his "America is behind this" attitude. I believe that the Egyptian military had its own justifiable reasons to take Morsi down. It did not need any push from the U.S. to do so.

Posted by: b | Jul 10 2013 12:37 utc | 22

Blogger Sandmonkey

Sandmonkey

The Murky Waters Of 30 June

Helping the Brotherhood survive is the narrative of outright lies that they keep spewing to the international media, thanks to their incorrigible spokesperson Gehad El-Haddad, who has been saying the word legitimacy so many times he is starting to remind us of Morsi’s last speech (57 times. 25 minutes where legitimacy was said 57 times), coupled with “military coup”. Nobody seemed to ask him what kind of military coup comes with a 48 hours ultimatum, since coups are usually surprising and immediate. I guess the military likes to give people it intends to overthrow a 48-hour head start to spoil their plan. I guess, according to international media, their sense of fair play extends to coups. The Egyptian military: nicest coup-throwers ever!

The problem with that narrative is that it relies on a number of assumptions, and none of them are true: 1) That the Brotherhood is democratically elected by millions of votes, 2) that their constitution was legitimately instated, and 3) that they are a legitimate political party through the FJP.
...
This leaves us only one last assumption to debunk: that the Brotherhood is a legitimate political party represented in the FJP. It is not. It is a terrorist organisation, and all of their allies are also terrorists. Before you roll your eyes, let me ask you the following questions:

How many political parties in Egypt have sent their supporters with guns to beat up opposition protesters, like the Brotherhood did in the presidential palace? How many political parties have snipers on their headquarters’ roofs that sniped and killed 8 protesters that were protesting in front of it? How many political parties send their supporters and allies to lay siege to the Supreme Constitutional Court and the Media City to terrorise the judges and media personalities from legally stopping or speaking against their own illegal constitution? How many political parties incite their supporters against Christians to the point that the Coptic Cathedral gets attacked for hours while the police don’t intervene, or where their elected president and allies incite their supporters against Shi’a muslims only to have four of them brutally killed in a despicable hate crime four days later? How many political parties have political conferences with their “elected president” in attendance as the keynote speaker that hosts known Islamist terrorists from Al-Jamaa Al-Islamiya who gave speeches announcing that anyone who goes out to protest on 30 June is an apostate and an infidel and thus deserves to be killed? How many political parties have their leaders and allies before 30 June state that if Morsi gets deposed they will “burn the country” and afterward announce that “terrorist attacks in Sinai will stop only if Morsi comes back to power”? Please provide examples, and Afghanistan doesn’t count.

Posted by: b | Jul 10 2013 12:49 utc | 23

HRW report will most likely give another blow to the coup-lovers fascination with the violent coup.

http://www.voanews.com/content/hrw-investigates-egypt-human-rights-abuses/1698465.html

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 10 2013 12:58 utc | 24

23) Yep, I saw that b., calling them terrorist basically outlaws them, it is not a good idea.
On the same principle you would have to outlaw all armed non state actors including Hezbollah and Hamas.
The surprising thing is how hardly armed Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood members seem to be, considering the near Leninist way Hamas came to power in Gaza.
I guess Egyptian army and secret service knew what they were doing all this time (or Iranian Hamas advisers were much better than Qatari advisers).

The US did have a Muslim Brotherhood strategy - from Turkey and Quatar to Libya to Syria and Egypt. If they intended to switch horses all along when things got out of hand is anybody's guess.
It sound a lot like the "let the hard core Jihadis defeat Assad, we will finish them off afterwards" strategy in Syria.

Of course at the same time the US also support the Turkish and Egyptian armies and guarantee Qatari (and Israeli) security.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 13:21 utc | 25

Assorted pundits idealising the MBs: Robert Scheer (Truthdig, Jul 9), Michael Scheuer (Foreign Policy Journal, Jul 6), and Eric Margolis (Jul 6). Margolis says: "Fears of the Brotherhood were whipped up among Egypt’s nervous Coptic Christians, 10% of the population, who form much of the urban elite." This is screwy: the attacks on rural, small-town or village Copts are real, not imaginary. Scheer says: "After the bloody Monday morning massacre of civilians at prayer by the heavily armed Egyptian military, interim Prime Minister ElBaradei disgraced himself by equating the violence of the armed with the resistance of the unarmed." This is also screwy: we have multiple reports of provocateurs firing at troops, and some, though not enough, video. Scheuer says: "If the Brotherhood and their Salafi allies cannot hold the power to govern they legitimately won by an overwhelming margin, they will decide quite correctly that it is time to reach for the Kalashnikovs. For Egypt’s Islamists, war is now a legitimate option." This is also screwy: only a CIA man could use the words 'legitimate' and 'correct' in this way. Finally, let me draw your attention to this Voice of Russia interview with Rick Rozoff, where RR implies that the anti-Mursi millions were precipitated by CIA-organised 'flash mobs'.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 10 2013 13:26 utc | 26

Isn't the New Yorker a hotbed of misinformation for Zion?Like just about every publication in America?
Sad to see the hypocrisy here,as coups are definitely not democratic,and will only bring about more strife and bloodshed for the Egyptian people.
Telling the Islamists that they have no option at the ballot box is unbelievably idiotic.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 10 2013 13:48 utc | 27

Exclusive: US bankrolled anti-Morsi activists
Documents reveal US money trail to Egyptian groups that pressed for president's removal.

AlJazeerah - so it comes with an agenda. Still lots of good information.

Posted by: b | Jul 10 2013 13:57 utc | 28

dahoit

You are correct. It seems a mixture of islamohphobia and MB's role in Syria twist the minds of some people here. Hasbara crew would be proud of this apologizing.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 10 2013 14:17 utc | 29

28) It is completely silly, b. as obviously Qatar and Saudi Arabia also bankroll a lot of people, and Germany does the same in a much smaller scale through Konrad Adenauer/Friedrich Ebert/ Heinrich Böll Stiftung ... etc. Basically all countries do it. The main US funding in Egypt goes to - guess who - the Egyptian army :-))


I mean, which patron Egypt is supposed to switch to - US allies Qatar, Saudi Arabia, US ... where is the difference ? US money being non-islamic :-))?


Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 14:33 utc | 30

And now, having creating a mess, the US is in the comfortable role of mediator between the clients it supports to fight each other

With the Qatari emir, Sheik Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Obama discussed their "deep concern about recent developments in Egypt" and agreed that the use of force is unacceptable, the White House said. The Gulf nation was a close ally of the Brotherhood and gave Morsi's government several billion in aid during his year in office.

The White House and State Department both urged the Muslim Brotherhood to reverse course and take part in the process but declined to respond to the group's complaint that it already had participated in and won a free and fair election, the results of which were voided by a military intervention.

"We will continue to encourage the Muslim Brotherhood, leaders from that group, to participate in the process," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said. "We know this is not going to be an easy process, but that's what we'll continue to encourage."

Psaki could not say whether any U.S. government official had contacted or tried to make contact with Morsi since President Barack Obama called him late last Monday to urge him to address the grievances of millions of demonstrators protesting his increasingly autocratic rule. The military removed Morsi from power on Wednesday and then placed him under house arrest along with other Muslim Brotherhood leaders.

Psaki said Secretary of State John Kerry had spoken by phone on Monday with Egypt's defense minister, Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, and pro-democracy leader Mohamed ElBaradei, who was selected to be interim vice president on Tuesday.

At the Pentagon, an official said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke for the fifth time in six days with el-Sissi on Tuesday as part of what has been almost daily effort to encourage the Egyptian military to reduce the violence and make a quick transition to a civilian government. The official said the frequent conversations were an attempt to set a defined rhythm of communications with the Egyptian leaders.

On Monday, after Egyptian security forces killed 51 people demonstrating in support of Morsi, the U.S. called for the military to exercise "maximum restraint."

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 15:05 utc | 31

The Emad Mekay article isn't completely silly, IMO. But at least one of the characters being bankrolled, ex-Police Colonel Omar Afifi Soliman, is so far off the wall that he sounds more like a provocateur intended to attract discredit and retribution on the anti-Morsi people than any sort of help to them. Esraa Abdel-Fatah's "drag the preachers out of their mosques" strategy is also so excessive as probably to be counter-productive. Isolated, violent mobs are not the way to start a revolution.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 10 2013 15:13 utc | 32

32 - well this here is Emad Mekay- guess who funds him

class of 2012


Emad Mekay ('12)

Founder, editor and publisher, America in Arabic News Agency, Cairo, Egypt

Project: Build an online news agency using Freedom of Information laws to make Arab regimes more accountable and U.S. Middle East policy more transparent.

Emad Mekay’s first story as an intern at the only English-language newspaper in Cairo was about children peddling tissue paper at the city’s suffocating traffic stops. He found this ability to expose injustice to be intoxicating, and that interest has defined his career. After graduating from Ain Shams University in Cairo in 1991, Mekay was a reporter in the New York Times’ Middle East bureau for three years. He later worked for Reuters and Bloomberg News. He covered the aftermath of Sept. 11 in the United States for Inter Press Service in Washington D.C. and has freelanced for numerous publications around the world. During a decade of working in the United States, Mekay became frustrated with both the Arab and American media’s coverage of U.S. foreign policy and actions in the Middle East. He decided to launch America in Arabic News Agency, the first independent for-profit publisher of news online in Arabic from the United States.

LOL

Or are there two journalists called Emad Mekay? They'd better cleared that up.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 16:00 utc | 33

This here is also an article by Emad Mekay

Mubarak Follows Crackdown With Smear Campaign Against Protesters

CAIRO, Feb 3 (IPS) – The regime of embattled Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has unleashed a media campaign to discredit pro-democracy protestors. That comes on the back of a violent crackdown by his supporters.

State-run television stations are airing reports that the young people who started the protests on Jan. 25 demanding his ouster have been handpicked by Israel, and given training in the U.S. and Qatar on destabilizing Egypt.

Mubarak’s regime has launched the campaign as the embattled president himself appeared in an interview on ABC television to declare he is "fed up" with ruling, and that he wants only to save Egypt from the Muslim Brotherhood and chaos.

The more it changes the more it remains the same.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 16:04 utc | 34

And this here is the Egyptian police officer mentioned in the article

Former Egyptian police officer directs protesters from afar

n a personal command center in a tiny apartment, 10 minutes from Washington, D.C., the revolution gets direction.

"God be with you. You are the ones. We are representing nothing without you," Omar Afifi Suleiman tells a caller.

Suleiman is speaking to protesters in Egypt via Skype, Facebook, Twitter and cell phone. Today, he hears from the Egyptian countryside, where 200 want to join the revolt.

"Are our groups increasing in number," the caller asks.

"Of course they are," Suleiman responds.

Another man calls after being questioned by authorities.

"The first thing they did was let us hear the sound of electric shock to intimidate us," the protester tells him.

Suleiman briefs activists on how to prevent confrontation. After 20 years as an Egyptian police officer, he says he knows all about that.

He wrote a book instructing ordinary citizens how to avoid police abuse. The book was banned in Egypt and Suleiman says death threats forced him out of the country - to America where he says he's been waiting three years to start a revolution.

"Our demonstrations will be popular, spontaneous, and peaceful. One hundred percent. No violence.," he says.

On January 14, Suleiman's YouTube video directed thousands on where and how to begin a revolt. He says he joined three other groups helping to organize protestors. It began 11 days later.

Suleiman says he taught protesters how to outsmart police by gathering in the side streets leading toTahrir Square.

"I know the police and he can control for 500, 600, 700," he notes. "But he can't control for 1,000 and 500. It's very hard."

Suleiman says he wants what the protesters want: President Mubarak's resignation and democracy now.

"Nobody can stop our revolution. Nobody," he insists.

But Egypt's Vice President Omar Suleiman -- no relation -- said the government will not tolerate prolonged protests in Tahrir Square, where some have set up tents. He was quoted saying he does not want to deal with Egyptians using "police tools."

Under a new government, analysts say that same police department would have to adapt.

"You have to change a whole police culture, you have to train them that slapping people around doesn’t work," says Fouad Ajami, a Mideast expert with Johns Hopkins University. "That kicking people around doesn’t work”"

Omar Affifi Suleiman agrees and estimates one out of seven Egyptian police officers is corrupt and abusive. He says only through retraining can the force establish credibility with the Egyptian public.


Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 16:14 utc | 35

and this here is the NED grant - 2009


"Mr. Omar Afifi Soliman is a Supreme Court lawyer and former police officer from Egypt. During his fellowship [at the National Endowment for Democracy ], he worked on a project to simplify the language of democracy and human rights for the average MIDDLE Arab citizen. On July 15, 2009, he gave a presentation at NED entitled “A Conversation with Omar Afifi: Developing a Democratic Dialogue in Egypt and the Middle East.” In the fall of 2009, his organization Hukuk Elnas (People’s Rights) was awarded a NED grant to establish EAST a legal aid clinic in Cairo. ...

He notes:

"As a former police officer and Supreme Court lawyer in Egypt, I witnessed numerous avoidable incidents involving ordinary Egyptians and the police. Most Egyptians possess little knowledge of their civic and political rights, while even those who are literate find it difficult to comprehend the complex language of the law, which is written infushaa, or high Arabic. “Developing a Dialogue Egyptian police routinely exploit on Democracy in Egypt citizens’ ignorance of their basic and the Arab World” rights, engaging in harassment Dates in Residence: and the unlawful detention of January–August 2009 innocent civilians. In response, I created a TV series and wrote a handbook in colloquial Arabic, “The path forward entitled How Not To Be Slapped on the Back of Your Neck, to teach Egyptians about their civil for democracy in rights. These products became an overnight success: the Egypt . . . is inex- book, in particular, sold 50,000 copies in two weeks before tricably linked to being banned by the government. This brought home to me the overwhelming demand among ordinary Egyptians for ed- strengthening the ucation concerning basic civil and political rights. An urgent rule of law, improv- need exists to educate Egyptians about the fundamentals of ing civic-education democracy and the benefits of transparent, fair, and effec- tive governance. My experiences have led me to believe that programs, and in - the path forward for democracy in Egypt—and the broader creasing awareness Middle East—is inextricably linked to strengthening the rule of the relationship of law, improving civic-education programs, and increasing between democratic awareness of the relationship between democratic gover- nance and an enhanced quality of life for all." [1]

"Ali Al-Ahmed, director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, which analyzes Middle Eastern politics, described Afifi's role as significant. He said Afifi "basically fired the first shot" when, on Jan. 14, in the wake of a popular revolt in Tunisia, Afifi released those YouTube videos calling for massive tests in Egypt on Jan. 25. Those protests were the biggest Egypt had seen in years and set the stage for the wave of demonstrations that on Wednesday prompted Mubarak to say he will not seek another term as president.

"Laith Kubba, a senior director at the National Endowment for Democracy, where Afifi recently completed a fellowship, said Afifi's credibility was established with the Egyptian public when he wrote his book, which was banned in Egypt and forced Afifi to leave the country." [2]

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2013 16:23 utc | 36

Posted by: b | Jul 10, 2013 9:57:08 AM | 28

US controls both sides

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/06/312583/us-controlling-both-sides-of-egypt-coup/

Posted by: brian | Jul 10 2013 22:53 utc | 37

Going throught the daily State Dept meetings - Intresting stuff if you read between the lines. This is from the 10th July, the link is here and just pick the date: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/

QUESTION:  Jen, could I ask about – you touched on this briefly yesterday, but there’s now a total of some $12 billion in economic assistance that’s been pledged by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Kuwait.  Could you comment on that?

MS. PSAKI:  Well, we – as you know, the Secretary and others in the Administration have been in touch with the Emiratis, with the Qataris, throughout this process – with a range of foreign leaders, I guess I should say.  It’s – we’re making our own decisions about our aid and what aid we will continue to provide from here.  Obviously, other countries are making their own decisions.  As I understand it, that aid has a range of purposes, from economic assistance to military assistance, I believe.  They have made the choice to do that.  There’s no question Egypt needs additional help on the economic front, and these countries clearly have the ability to deliver more on that along those lines.

QUESTION:  I mean, the $12 billion obviously dwarfs 1.5 billion provided by the United States.  Would this mean that you could then say, okay, we can freeze our aid because you’re getting it from someone else?

MS. PSAKI:  Wouldn’t draw that conclusion.  Obviously, our relationship with Egypt – well, I said it goes far beyond aid, and it certainly does, but we have strategic interests in the region. 

QUESTION:  Jen.

MS. PSAKI:  We have important – we believe that it’s very important that we continue to have that relationship, and aid is a part of that.

QUESTION:  So this is a positive move by these three countries to do this, to help Egypt in this economic situation?

MS. PSAKI:  Well, I don’t want to go too far in making an evaluation, aside from saying that each country is going to make their own decisions.  We certainly support each country’s ability to do that.  We currently do provide and feel that it wouldn’t be in the interests of the U.S. or Egypt for us to change that right now, though we’re evaluating it, as we all know, because we’ve talked about quite a bit in here.  And Egypt clearly does need assistance for security and for economic.

QUESTION:  And I just wonder if --

QUESTION:  But why there is like this confusion between labeling the military ouster of President Morsy as a coup, and at the same time, if this is a coup, you’re not stopping the aid?  So why this is a confusion between the interests of the United States for not stopping the aids to Egypt?  And at the same time, if it’s a coup, you have to do it by law.  But there’s a confusion between what some voices in the Congress are saying and what the Administration – which decision should take.

MS. PSAKI:  Well, I would disagree that it’s a confusion.  What we’re doing is we’re taking the time necessary to review what has taken place and to monitor efforts by Egyptian authorities to forge an inclusive and democratic way forward.  That takes time.  There’s discussions.  There are meetings to discuss that.  And of course, the – our requirements under the law are part of that as well.  So I don’t think that’s a confusion. 

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 0:59 utc | 38

@ b, both or all? Going throught the daily State Dept meetings - Intresting stuff if you read between the lines. This is from the 10th July, the link is here and just pick the date: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/

QUESTION:  Jen, could I ask about – you touched on this briefly yesterday, but there’s now a total of some $12 billion in economic assistance that’s been pledged by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Kuwait.  Could you comment on that?

MS. PSAKI:  Well, we – as you know, the Secretary and others in the Administration have been in touch with the Emiratis, with the Qataris, throughout this process – with a range of foreign leaders, I guess I should say.  It’s – we’re making our own decisions about our aid and what aid we will continue to provide from here.  Obviously, other countries are making their own decisions.  As I understand it, that aid has a range of purposes, from economic assistance to military assistance, I believe.  They have made the choice to do that.  There’s no question Egypt needs additional help on the economic front, and these countries clearly have the ability to deliver more on that along those lines.

QUESTION:  I mean, the $12 billion obviously dwarfs 1.5 billion provided by the United States.  Would this mean that you could then say, okay, we can freeze our aid because you’re getting it from someone else?

MS. PSAKI:  Wouldn’t draw that conclusion.  Obviously, our relationship with Egypt – well, I said it goes far beyond aid, and it certainly does, but we have strategic interests in the region. 

QUESTION:  Jen.

MS. PSAKI:  We have important – we believe that it’s very important that we continue to have that relationship, and aid is a part of that.

QUESTION:  So this is a positive move by these three countries to do this, to help Egypt in this economic situation?

MS. PSAKI:  Well, I don’t want to go too far in making an evaluation, aside from saying that each country is going to make their own decisions.  We certainly support each country’s ability to do that.  We currently do provide and feel that it wouldn’t be in the interests of the U.S. or Egypt for us to change that right now, though we’re evaluating it, as we all know, because we’ve talked about quite a bit in here.  And Egypt clearly does need assistance for security and for economic.

QUESTION:  And I just wonder if --

QUESTION:  But why there is like this confusion between labeling the military ouster of President Morsy as a coup, and at the same time, if this is a coup, you’re not stopping the aid?  So why this is a confusion between the interests of the United States for not stopping the aids to Egypt?  And at the same time, if it’s a coup, you have to do it by law.  But there’s a confusion between what some voices in the Congress are saying and what the Administration – which decision should take.

MS. PSAKI:  Well, I would disagree that it’s a confusion.  What we’re doing is we’re taking the time necessary to review what has taken place and to monitor efforts by Egyptian authorities to forge an inclusive and democratic way forward.  That takes time.  There’s discussions.  There are meetings to discuss that.  And of course, the – our requirements under the law are part of that as well.  So I don’t think that’s a confusion. 

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 1:00 utc | 39

Sorry last was to -Posted by: brian | Jul 10, 2013 6:53:05 PM | 37, and doubled up on the post, feel free to delete one.

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 1:02 utc | 40

So far among the analyses that I have read/watched/listened to regarding the developments in Egypt, the best analysis is the one to which 'Brian' linked from Chossudovsky in pressTV. I think that he captures the essence of what's been happening the best. Impatiently waiting to see what George Galloway has to say about Egypt on Thursday.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Jul 11 2013 5:06 utc | 41

Well, I would differ from Prof C in that I see Sisi and the coup as more responsive to Israeli demands than to US ones. I think the US was fine with Jihadis all over, but Israel (and Sisi, on behalf of Egyptian Army) drew the line when Jihadis started building up with Morsi support in Sinai (including truck-mounted Grad rocket launchers, among other things).

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 11 2013 7:17 utc | 42

Cairo seeking Israeli okay to widen Sinai offensive:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/cairo-seeking-israeli-okay-to-widen-sinai-offensive/

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 11 2013 7:30 utc | 43

'What is important to note is that the United States and Muslim Brotherhood have both tried to manipulate one another on the basis of their own converging agendas. Collaboration between the US government and Muslim Brotherhood goes back to the time of Gamal Abdel Nasser when they both worked against Nasser’s government. The particular arrangement between the Muslim Brotherhood and the US over the Arab Spring, which has seen the Muslim Brotherhood riding the 2011 wave of Arab upheavals into power, goes back to President Obama’s 2009 “A New Beginning” speech that was supposed to reset America’s damaged relations with the world’s Muslims. The Obama administration specifically asked that representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood be present when President Obama delivered the widely anticipated speech in Cairo.'
http://rt.com/op-edge/america-egypt-prevent-civil-war-838/

Posted by: brian | Jul 11 2013 9:23 utc | 45

To: Brian # 44
"mysterious snipers show up when someone wants a colour revolution"
I think that is likely scenario during Iran election 4 years ago , Mysterious killing of Neda Agha Soltan.

Posted by: Loyal | Jul 11 2013 9:32 utc | 46

Don’t know who posted references to Turkey, read it, but not sure who/where. But this market data is making his decisions more sterile and not as inflamed and it's hitting home.

The Central Bank of Turkey (CBRT) has intervened in the foreign exchange market six times already today to prop up the value of the Turkish lira.
Over the course of those six auctions, the central bank has flooded the market with $1.4 billion in hard currency in order to boost the lira against the dollar, but its dodo
The lira has been among the hardest-hit emerging market currencies since May, when rising fears that the Federal Reserve would begin to taper back monetary stimulus sooner than expected hit markets around the world.
Political unrest in Turkey over the past several weeks hasn't helped the currency.

What you get for stabbing Assad in the back and for the crackdown they did on the people of turkey in one way. Ye the other side;

The OPEC members can manipulate politics in the middle east and Muslim world quietly through their money, although and importantly, above the OPEC food chain, by the elite cabal that owns every central bank in the world including the fed and the CBRT - It could be a warning to stay engaged in the demise of Assad, thoughts?

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 10:19 utc | 47

Syrian and Egyptian currency also devalue against the Dollar, the Dollar devalues against the Euro ...

I guess when the Dollar floods markets countries with "low" technology exports are forced to do that to keep their industries competitive.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 11 2013 10:38 utc | 48

somebody | Jul 11, 2013 6:38:55 AM | 48, true - and we are dealing with a conflict where two, even three fronts are at play; in that mix is 'Economic', strategic and ideological (Includes religion), each with an agenda mostly 'Power and money'. The pisser is the average citizen is 100% (-1%) out of that loop, and they in turn are literally paying for it, i.e. funding and consequences - Absurd!

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 11:53 utc | 49

columbias servant Pres thought US was his friend
http://www.sibci.gob.ve/2013/07/colombia-to-the-us-spying-i-thought-we-were-friends/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
'Colombia’s Foreign Minister said concern focused on “unauthorised data collection” on Colombia’s territory through itsd embassy in Bogota.'......lucky..US also uses its embassies for other purposes!

Posted by: brian | Jul 11 2013 12:05 utc | 50

Posted by: Loyal | Jul 11, 2013 5:32:19 AM | 46

read the 2nd article for other egs

Posted by: brian | Jul 11 2013 12:06 utc | 51

http://www.timesofisrael.com/cairo-seeking-israeli-okay-to-widen-sinai-offensive/

Coup lovers here should start calling themselves zionists.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 12:25 utc | 52

Ever since Sadat signed the Peace accords, the US and Israel by extension have owned the Egyptian armed forces. So they are mercenaries for The Zionist entity.

Posted by: Fernando | Jul 11 2013 12:41 utc | 53

Fernando

Yeah you would know.

"zionist entity"

Its not the first time your posts bordering on antisemtisim.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/04/syria-nyt-starts-telling-the-truth-about-syria.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef017eeaa5edf9970d

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 13:06 utc | 54

@ Anon, the 'Extremist Islamic lover' so it seems, let’s hope not- Operative words here 'to root out "Islamic extremists". Have you been reading what is going on in Sinai since Misery was ousted?

Yes, sides will be played, but you don’t need to be blinded and so ‘Pro’ chaos and Morsi -We are talking about citizens, civilians, economics and a life choice, not ‘your’ political lean or ‘your’ religious lean; rather but life and lives and ‘that’ continuum without restraints and oppression and can have aspirations, wants and need to evolve, more so the children without the perils of radial/extremist domination and in turn retribution as a constant shadow.

You have not even lived yet, moreover not in that region, you are nothing but a ‘soft’ thorn stem; one that has been nourished indoctrination of sorts, let’s hope you can break free and flourish into a fragrant rose one day, rather than a puncturing bush -flowerless or ultimately a ‘stone rose fossil’.

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 13:11 utc | 55

kev

Thats the issue scottish, you use secterian, islamophobic, political arguments (apparently you dont even know arabic).
I use principles like uphelding rule of law, democracy. SOmething that is foreign to you.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 13:18 utc | 56

You think mabey the coup against morsi is US punishment for brotherhood affiliated FSA's failure to oust Assad.

Posted by: skybox | Jul 11 2013 13:57 utc | 57

@Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 8:25:30 AM | 52 : When you say "Coup lovers here should start calling themselves zionists," you're confusing two different things. One is whether the coup is viable, whether it will stick, or whether sufficient numbers of aggravated demonstrators, with or without small arms, could reverse it and put Morsi back in the President's chair. The other is whether one prefers Army rule or MB rule, on humanitarian, moral or geopolitical grounds. The first question is a question of fact. The second is a question of value judgment. There are no 'coup lovers' here, not a single person has expressed admiration for Army rule. Some have said, it's true, that they wouldn't like to live under MB rule if it's going to be sectarian in its expression, instead of tolerant of multi-faith and no-faith sectors of the population as it originally promised to be. But nobody is naive enough to imagine that the Army brass are pillars of pan-Arab idealism. We all know they are as corrupt as hell. So you are creating a very emotive and prejudiced sort of phantom opponent to argue against, who isn't actually in evidence here at all.

@Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 9:06:14 AM | 54: You say " 'zionist entity' - it's not the first time your posts bordering on antisemitism." I don't think it's "anti-Semitic" to refer to "Israel" as "the Zionist entity". It's maybe a little dated. But that's a matter of taste. And the other comment by Fernando you point to, "Why is it that I keep hearing Jewish names when in comes to Syria? Wouldn't their opinions be slanted towards Israel?" seems to me to be a legitimate observation. Mosser, who objects to it there, is someone I am familiar with from MondoWeiss, where he says exactly the same sort of things. And I am prepared to argue until they ban me that Jewish commentators, op-ed writers, other journalists and assorted pundits generally are biased pro-Israel, and it isn't "anti-semitic" to say so. Calling it "anti-semitic" is a hypocritical smokescreen. And since the two comments I have just singled out point in opposite directions, I wonder whether there are two anonymouses, one pro-zionist and the other anti-, or whether the one Anonymous is schizophrenic, or perverse, or just excessively emotional.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 11 2013 14:44 utc | 58

About, US bankrolled Morsi activists. posted at 28 by b, link,

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/07/2013710113522489801.html

Well...As the article points out, Democracy Assistance is fueled through all kinds of ‘programs’ from the US.

Many NGOs count on this kind of cash. Which is partly why there are so many of them, dealing with ‘democracy’, ‘human rights’, etc. without a clear agenda, rather than ‘worker’s rights’, ‘pollution’, ‘education’, for which you can’t get a penny from the US.

These actions are always going on, all the time. This is what the US does, often in a completely confused manner. One must suspect friend-funding, scams, as well, etc. (Funding individuals is another cup of tea..)
What impact or importance the funding has is ??, but it should not be over-estimated. - Most of the real action is behind the scenes.

The funding is used to encourage and support opponents to ‘Tyrants’ that the US does not like in color-revolution-type scenarios, to make a Society of the Spectacle - aka here the Street and televised images - more important than other dimensions, because the spectacle by-passes law, Gvmt. procedures, diplomatic relations, even democracy, quote unquote, and is easily manipulated by the complicit grasping media. Demos or more in Bahrein, Saudi Arabia, or US Carolina, Isr. are not touted as valiant citizens standing up to oppressive Gvmts. or green-clawed bloody Dictators. If they are reported at all.

Overall, this method is used because it is wondrously cheap.. And undermines all kind of other relations, agreements, ways of proceeding. Which is one of the reasons it is used so consistently and why the ‘human rights’ crowd has some power. Which they naturally will do anything to keep.

The case of Egypt makes some contradictions stark, not new, but massive spin required.

somebody at 35, control of the revolution from afar, that was interesting.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 11 2013 14:47 utc | 59

@Anon,أحا عبيط (ج) عبطاء

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 14:48 utc | 60

#59) yeah almost drone like :-)9

You have to look closely though, without the human rights people torturers would proceed without embarassment, and there are quite a few legit grassroot US civil rights organizations.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 11 2013 14:57 utc | 61

Rowan

Please dont justify antisemitism.
Saying that jews have a specifc mind or loyalty to Israel is if anything, racist.

Kev

Haha. Googling "arab insults" wont do it.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 15:04 utc | 62

@Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 11:04:10 AM | 62: The only people who adopt that sanctimonious, po-faced voice, if I can put it that way, are left-wing Jews and their left-wing Arab auxiliaries. I consider both of those groups so confused and hypocritical, even unconscious of their own hypocrisy, as not even to be worth trying to argue with. So as far as I'm concerned, you can go on making sanctimonious po-faced comments and I shall from now on ignore them. That way, we can exist peacefully in parallel universes of discourse that never meet.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 11 2013 15:24 utc | 63

Anon, but I called you a blooming flower in the making?

Posted by: kev | Jul 11 2013 15:37 utc | 64

Rowan

You even deny there is antisemitism now?
So anyone who use the term "anitsemitism" is "confused, hypocritical" and must be either an "arab" or a "jew"?
Yes you should ignore my comments as should "b" ignore your racist comments here.

kev

Haha no you didnt thats why I said you shouldnt fool yourself with googgling insults :)

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 16:32 utc | 65

@Anon

When a rabid supporter of "Political Islam" comes in throwing around accusations of sectarianism, you truly know their rhetorical magazine is spent of ammunition.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 16:44 utc | 66

Guest77

How am I a "rabid supporter of political Islam" for defending the rule of law in egypt and the elections in egypt? Thats projection by yourself since you are the one taking a political secterian position just like you do in the syrian threads.

By the way have you read the Amnesty report I gave you?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 16:54 utc | 67

"Oil-rich Persian Gulf monarchies that fear the Muslim Brotherhood rewarded the takeover with financial support. Kuwait pledged $4 billion on Wednesday, adding to the $8 billion in grants, loans and fuel promised the day before by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates."

This is incredibly disturbing. This is the state a year of neo-liberal Brotherhood rule has left Egypt. A beggar. Precisely the plan, I'm sure.

Note that all this cash comes from the UAE and SA, and not from Qatar. Note that the US is busily trying to act aas go between between these two factions of the GCC. Remind us again, Anon, how there is ZERO competition between the Gulf States in the region?

Form the State Dept. interview: "Well, I don’t want to go too far in making an evaluation, aside from saying that each country is going to make their own decisions.  We certainly support each country’s ability to do that."

To my mind, when the US says they "support" a country's "ability" that means to me they don't and fear that countries are acting independently. I may be entirely wrong, but I can't tell if the US is just reacting to events, attempting to be a broker between bickering allies in a faltering alliance ("Obama Speaks to Qatar, UAE Leaders on Egypt") or if it in complete command of the situation.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 16:59 utc | 68

@67

So you're bright enough to dress up your biases in the cloth of righteousness and "democracy". That's a real basic political trick. It's a thin material though, do you think no one can see through that? You're rabid alright. Right down to making their threats about moving towards extremism. Real "democratic" of you.

I'm sorry, I support all of the Syrian people - Christians, Muslims (Sunni and Shia) - fighting against the al Qaeda cannibals. I don't see much sectarianism there. Who are you fooling? Yourself maybe?

I must have missed the Amnesty report. Can you send a link again? There are several online currently. I don't know which one you are referring to.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 17:07 utc | 69

guest77

Yes anyone that respect rule of law and democracy must hide and "dress up" something, it must be a "trick".
Yes how can anyone 'defend rule of law and democracy'!?

No, you certainly dont respect all kinds of people which anyone could check throughout the comments you have made. Not a single time have you neither condemned the warcrimes commited by either SAA or the egyptian army.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 17:16 utc | 70

I condemn the war crimes of the SAA and the Egyptian Army. And I condemn the more heinous war crimes of the Syrian "rebels" and the acts of terror taking place in the Sinai. I also condemn the firing of rockets into Israel, but I condemn 1000x more them 1000x times more vicious Israeli attacks on the Palestinians. You're right if you're accusing me of choosing a side. You're completely wrong to think it is because I prefer one sect to another. That's your game, not mine.

Yes, your defense of "rule of law" and "democracy" is a lie, because you come out to defend these principals when it suits you and over that which of they are means to protect (and not ends in themselves): the sense of justice inside the heart of a human being that makes them rebel against tyranny.

You've taken the side of the MB over the mass of the Egyptian people. You'd rather pretend that some elections a year ago are as meaningful as the opinions and actions of the people today. That's your perverse definition of "democracy". I haven't heard once you say something positive about the fact that people have a right to make the decision to protest their leaders. You just demand they get in line and follow orders because there was an election a year ago. "Just wait three years" no matter what they're feeling. That's your lonely, bizarre definition of "democracy". It sounds like Hillary Clinton's definition. It sounds like the entitlement of the powerful to remain so.

You're really acting foolishly. It's apparent to everyone but you.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 17:51 utc | 71

Interesting article:
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/12876/the-june-rebellion-in-egypt
excerpt:
".... high politics continues its surreal course. It is the military that has now produced the “road map” to an eventual civic state, the original goal of the January revolution. But with the exception of Fahmy Howeidy, no one noticed that it had already been outlined by another, unexpected source: the road map is substantially the same as that President Morsi himself previously proposed. On 3 July the army suspended the constitution. On 4 July an interim president in his oath of office swore to uphold this constitution. Whatever he is supposed to uphold, he has the power to issue any constitutional declaration he wishes, checked only by the military. So this great struggle against a potential tyranny, which was at the heart of the June rebellion, replaced an ineffectual but democratically elected president with one who has unlimited power that is checked only by an authoritarian institution. The first acts of the new regime were to close down television stations, prevent coverage of Muslim Brotherhood demonstrations, and arrest their leaders. Nonetheless, throughout the country there is a palpable sense that what we see now is a great advance for the cause of liberty, progress, and–whenever it arrives–democracy itself.

"This puzzling sentiment seems rooted in the single accomplishment of the June rebellion: unfreezing the stalemate, and setting in motion another political process with perhaps more open horizons. This new process might be tolerated until it, too, hits the wall. But until then, we need to understand how the June rebellion exploded in an environment characterized by a frozen stalemate, which produced a pervasive sense of closed future horizons–unfortunately for it, not felt by the party in power. Thus one can understand why, in spite of the military coming back to guide political life, the absence of any elected body, of any mechanism for translating popular will into acts of governance, and of a constitution, large numbers of Egyptians, likely a significant majority, seem to regard this condition as an opening rather than a closing of the system...."

Posted by: bevin | Jul 11 2013 18:06 utc | 72

guest77

Once again you showing off your secterian hatred.

jews are according to you worth less than palestinian lives, palestinians casualties are worth "1000x times" more.
You condemn sunni rebels for their alleged "more..warcrimes" but refuse to condemn the SAA equally.

On top of this your secterian hatred for kurds and turks have been exposed earlier.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/05/syria-obama-expresses-concern-about-some-foreign-fighters.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef0192aa325716970d

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 18:30 utc | 73

"jews are according to you worth less than palestinian lives, palestinians casualties are worth "1000x times" more."

Who do you think is buying this? Israelis kill 1000 Palestinians for each Israeli killed is the math on that. Who do you think doesn't realize that is the calculation?

The rebels - heterogeneous in faith, fanaticism, and outlook - have been shown to execute people on film over religious differences, to cannibalize corpses, to behead civilians, and now to use nerve gas. Do you have evidence of equal acts by the SAA? You don't because they don't exist. You think you're going to sell that bill of goods to people here?

As for the Turks and Kurds comment, I'll let people read it and come to their own conclusion. I'm not worried anyone else will see it in the same way your active pathological imagination has.

You're really the worst troll that has even been on here. You're fooling yourself, and no one else, you worm.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 19:07 utc | 74

guest77

Dont be mad at me for your secterian, bordering racism, hatred, apparently you have denied these feeling and thats why you become so mad about it when I now in post after post expose it. :)

This is now, way off topic - so I respectfully departure from this discussion.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2013 19:14 utc | 75

"so I respectfully departure from this discussion."

Glad to see you run away. Once the stench clears out we can all forget you were ever here. Considering your posts lacked all substance other than the most transparent accusations, it will be pretty easy.

The increasingly lonely life and lies of "Anonymous". What a clown show.

Posted by: guest77 | Jul 11 2013 19:34 utc | 76

guest77

Once again you showing off your secterian hatred.

jews are according to you worth less than palestinian lives, palestinians casualties are worth "1000x times" more.
You condemn sunni rebels for their alleged "more..warcrimes" but refuse to condemn the SAA equally.

On top of this your secterian hatred for kurds and turks have been exposed earlier.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/05/syria-obama-expresses-concern-about-some-foreign-fighters.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef0192aa325716970d

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 2:30:38 PM | 73


this anon fellow seems to have wandered in here by mistake: the right/left wing FSA supporter blog is 2 blocks to the right! his 'condemn the SAA equally' is what the embarrassed media suppporters of cannibals are saying. If he goes to syria and speaks to the syrians he may find they see the SAA as saving them from foreign terrorists! They dont see ther SAA as equal to the FSA.

No wonder this guy is 'anonymous'

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 3:55 utc | 77

No, you certainly dont respect all kinds of people which anyone could check throughout the comments you have made. Not a single time have you neither condemned the warcrimes commited by either SAA or the egyptian army.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 1:16:28 PM | 70

Defending your country from enemies foreign or domestic is NOT a war crime MR anonymous. You must think this place is a strong hold of the FSA..it is not. Your lies about the SAA are dspicable, when its the SAA saving syrians from foreign terrorists:

what an ex jihadis has to say
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgFR9vYSmY

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 3:58 utc | 78

By the way have you read the Amnesty report I gave you?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 12:54:04 PM | 67


this anon is a proven supported of the FAS

as for Amnesty: that organisation has taken to hiring EX-US state dept officials

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 4:00 utc | 79

Its not the first time your posts bordering on antisemtisim.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/04/syria-nyt-starts-telling-the-truth-about-syria.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef017eeaa5edf9970d

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11, 2013 9:06:14 AM | 54


is this anon troll jewish? thatd explain his anti syria rant, and his support for events in egypt

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 4:01 utc | 80

brian

So you are antisemitic ("b", are these racist comments ok?), a warcrimes lover (and Saddam Hussein as shown in the last thread (http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/07/open-thread-2013-14.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef0192abf918fd970d) and on top of that you discredit Amnesty.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 8:05 utc | 81

and on top of that you discredit Amnesty.
Ha! He dares to discredit Amnesty! Take that man out & shoot him!

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 12 2013 8:19 utc | 82

Rowan

Of course, if Amnesty would say that syrian rebels commit warcrimes then you hypocrites hail Amnesty.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 8:41 utc | 83

"Another group": read, the MB

The second report is no less grave than the first. According to intelligence obtained by the CIA, another group with ties to al-Qaeda brought around 2,000 kg of explosives into Lebanon to use them in attacks against the Lebanese army, Hezbollah, and the Saudi and Kuwaiti ambassadors in Beirut, and possibly diplomats from Russia and China.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/cia-al-qaeda-dispatched-16-tons-explosives-lebanon

Posted by: Mina | Jul 12 2013 8:54 utc | 84

Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 4:41:10 AM | 83 -Anon, your so funny girl - HRG's go any way the funding goes - They condemn both side, so here is a Hail AI - "a recent report from Human Rights Watch noting armed Syrian opposition groups had been torturing and summarily executing detainees in Aleppo, Latakia and Idlib". If I cite all the AI against the rebels in Syria it would be a post of Hail stone! Once you finish your studies you can join the UN, or a NGO, even form your own little NGO/NPO get out there and see a little, you will have a vision (Required) but make sure it is broad enough to attract the funding, one day Egypt, the next a merry dance elsewhere, just as the wind blow, they all change direction.

Posted by: kev | Jul 12 2013 9:55 utc | 85

The question that article is asking, Mina, is: why would the CIA tell us this? And I have posted my answer, as a comment, which they have kindly printed. This is what I propose:

I'd like to put forward the suggestion, for which I have no direct evidence, that the Army coup in Egypt was not conducted at the behest of the US but of Israel, which ever since 9/11 appears to have held a power of veto over all US covert activity in the middle East and central and south America (though not in Africa, the Indian subcontinent or south-east Asia). The Israelis regard the Morsi-supported build-up of well-armed Jihadis in the Sinai as having crossed the proverbial red line. This, according to my hypothesis, has led to a functional cut-off of all US support for Jihadi groups in the region, including in Lebanon. There are elements in the CIA which are refusing to observe this cut-off, at least rhetorically, but the Israeli veto is the decisive factor. This explains the contradictory appearance of US policy at the moment. Clearly, the Israelis have no confidence whatever in the US's ability to distinguish between "moderate" and "extreme" Jihadi elements, and this is especially obvious in relation to Syria. Thus, Congress has blocked Obama's funding program, which is a face-saving way to stop it, without forcing Obama to publicly contradict himself. Similarly in the UK, Parliament is blocking Cameron's funding plans. This would be a logical way of implementing the peremptory Israeli veto immediately, with minimum controversy or fuss. And it would explain the information from the CIA regarding Jihadi plans in Lebanon.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 12 2013 9:58 utc | 86

PS: I think I've made a mistake in the above, which is too late to correct now but may cause some head-scratching by al-Akhbar readers. What I meant was that, the way I see it, Israel's veto over US covert use of Jihadis only really covers Israel's immediate neighbours, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, and by extension, Turkey and maybe Iraq and Sudan and other parts of north Africa -- ie, places from which real Jihadis (as opposed to phony, CIA- or Mukhabarat-controlled ones) might easily start attacking Jewish targets, and/or Israel itself. But for some reason, I started pedantically trying to list all the other regions in the world where I don't imagine Israel has this veto, and inexplicably I ended up saying that Israel had a veto on such activity in 'central and South America'. I don't think that's what I meant, unless I had some intricate calculation in mind that I've now forgotten. So sorry about that.


:-)

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 12 2013 10:15 utc | 87

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 4:05:34 AM | 81

anon is a zionist, supports an Amnesty shown to be in league with the US war machine, and saddams mistake was trusting the US

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/amnesty-intl-collapse-new-head-is-former-state-dept-official-who-rationalized-iran-sanctions-gaza-onslaught.html

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 10:25 utc | 88

Of course, if Amnesty would say that syrian rebels commit warcrimes then you hypocrites hail Amnesty.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 4:41:10 AM | 83

the FSA and alnusra are mostly not syrian and not rebels at all and they do commit war crimes.Your support for them marks u as a troll on this site

tunisian exjihadist tells it like it is
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgFR9vYSmY‎

Mother of Tunisian Jihadist Weeps as She Apologizes to the Syrian ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ays0BN081Ok‎

Guess who massacred at Houla
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-houla-massacre-opposition-terrorists-killed-families-loyal-to-the-government/31184

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 10:29 utc | 89

de ja vu

'The killing of more than 50 people at a demonstration in support of ousted Egyptian President Morsi in Cairo on July 8 has justifiably horrified many in Egypt and internationally. The pro-Morsi elements have placed the blame on the military forces, while the military claims it was attacked with live ammunition. While accusations are hurled back and forth, a new aspect to this story is emerging – the presence of a third force, namely snipers stationed on rooftops firing at both sides of the conflict. '
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fomenting-civil-war-in-egypt/5342463

snipers! HMMM now where have we seen THAT before?

in Venezuela and Libya and beyond
http://www.globalresearch.ca/unknown-snipers-and-western-backed-regime-change/27904

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 10:33 utc | 90

brian

Here is Amnesty condemning rebel warcrimes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/mar/14/syria-crisis-rebel-war-crimes-rising-amnesty-live

Are you still going to discredit them for being "zionists" "jews" and other antisemitic conspiracy theories?

kev

You seems quite obsessed with me, sorry I am not interested because I am heterosexual :)

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 10:51 utc | 91

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 6:51:29 AM | 91

lets take a look at what amnesty is reported to have said:
'Amnesty has warned the international community that arming Syrian rebels risks fuelling an increase in war crimes unless the rebels can demonstrate a commitment to stamping out growing abuses.

Cilina Nasser, Amnesty’s researcher who documented a rise in violations by rebels in today’s new report, urged countries like Britain to assess the human rights risks of arming the rebels.

Speaking to the Guardian she said: “Any state that is considering supplying arms to the armed opposition should be very careful. They should carry out a human rights risk assessment.”'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/mar/14/syria-crisis-rebel-war-crimes-rising-amnesty-live

so Amnesty is in favor of the 'rebels'(really foreign jihadis) but doesnt want them to do anything to jeopardise the public image .Their position looks suspiciously similar to FUKUS.

Imagine if Amnesty was to say about british 'rebels' or US 'rebels' armed by Iran, seeking to overthrow the regimes of UK or US...'please dont commit war crimes'

lets compare Amnesty( an anonymous committee) to a real HR person: what does she say?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=msA35ATXol8‎

You look like and are an apologist for the FSA alnusra terrorists currently killing in syria

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 11:42 utc | 92

brian

Amnesty dont make political judgment (they dont take a stance in conflicts, as secterians - as you do systematically do) they inspect that human rights are followed. Thats why they caution suppyling arms based on the warcrimes issue.

So again when Amnesty say rebels commit warcrimes, you certainly accept Amnesty reports. Thats hypocritical of you because when they dont, you call them "jews" "zionist" and other racist nonsense.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 11:56 utc | 93

@Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 6:51:29 AM | 91,I don’t get your drive, one second you are saying 'Of course, 'if' (Operative word in your delivery) Amnesty would say that Syrian rebels commit warcrimes then you hypocrites hail Amnesty' then you post AI citing rebel War crimes because you only gave one side of AI that suited you at the time, then you counter with some nutty abuse, irrelevant of what others say, your 'Words and argument' - you’re a confused lunatic, well, not really, just backtracking and being defensive!

You got that little thing going on there girl, the 'obsession thing' I am not the first you pushed this on, Fernando the last time I think; was it a childhood thing, very close father and all that?

Why on earth would a female say I am heterosexual to a guy? Have you or are you going through a procedure, hey fair dues, if you feel the need, but would not that be against the 'Sisterhood' thing you got going, just a question?

Posted by: kev | Jul 12 2013 12:13 utc | 94

amnesty dont make political judgements? well they did when they hired a former state dept person
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/amnesty-intl-collapse-new-head-is-former-state-dept-official-who-rationalized-iran-sanctions-gaza-onslaught.html

the 'rebels' are not rebels...was this man a 'rebel'?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgFR9vYSmY‎

most of the 'rebels' arent even syrian...so how can they be'rebels'?

nice try but Amnesty is history

Posted by: brian | Jul 12 2013 12:26 utc | 95

brian

If you knew anything about Amnesty they dont make political judgements.
You are free to read on their on site about this.

http://www.amnestyusa.org

How come Amnesty condemn Israel over and over if its led by "jews" and "zionist" Mr. Antisemitic?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 12:39 utc | 96

Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 8:39:01 AM | 96- Having worked with donor funding for 20+ years and know it’s all a chase; in short they follow the money. They all lean, it how they get funding - http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/amnesty_international

like I said once you finish your studies, you can get out an learn.

Posted by: kev | Jul 12 2013 13:06 utc | 97

kev

Again googling "amnesty criticism" isnt going to work, that your "20+ years" in the business havent learned you anyhing about how the charity department works at Amnesty is hilarious :)

Besides quite funny how you refer to ngo-monitor too, a pro Israel organization. :)

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 12 2013 13:31 utc | 98

NGO Monitor's grand table of NGO funding is widely cited by friend and foe alike:
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/ngo_leadership_in_boycott_and_divestment_campaigns#table

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Jul 12 2013 14:10 utc | 99


@Anonymous | Jul 12, 2013 9:31:10 AM | 98, So you are racist! And a bigot now; the very aspects you accuse so many of being! Wait, did you not cite ‘AI’ in this conversation; Ah, so you did... In addition, AI, Amnesty International UK and Amnesty International Charity Ltd - Both are UK-based organizations but only the latter is a charity, the rest and the main funding is donor based (Paid for what you can do).

Irene Khan received a payment of UK £533,103 from Amnesty International following her resignation from the organization, so very charitable! Kate Gilmore (DSG) received an ex-gratia payment of £320,000, very, very charitable. Now Kate Gilmore, Deputy Executive Director, UNFPA. I know her and met a few times.

Note: We neither seek nor accept any funds for human rights research from governments or political parties and we accept support only from businesses that have been carefully vetted. By way of ethical fundraising leading to donations from individuals, we are able to stand firm and unwavering in our defense of universal and indivisible human rights. AI did receive grants from DIFID, UK Department for International Development the European Commission, the United States State Department and other governments. Well, what can I say?

As for 'Google', sorry (Again), I have worked with the presence of ‘AI’ in Iraq, Kosovo, Serbia , Bosnia, Sierra Leone, the Philippines, Haiti and a few other conflict and well as post conflict regions. That is where we differ; you still need to have weight under your belt and to actually know what you are talking about…

Posted by: kev | Jul 12 2013 17:18 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.