Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 22, 2013

Syria: The Messed Up Neighborhood

The recent bombing that killed 51 in the Turkish town Reyhanli received only scant coverage in the local media. While the Turkish president Erdogan accused the Syrian government of committing the crime he did not want the facts to be out in the public. But he is not the only one to have power in Turkey.

The Turkish hacker collective RedHack liberated several documents from the Turkish gendarmerie intelligence. The documents mention that Turkish intelligence had since April 25 information that the Jihadist Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria was preparing three car bombs for attacks in Turkey. If these documents are as genuine as they look the Turkish press will hardly ignore them and Erdogan will have to do some explaining.

The Reyhanli cover up and this leak point to a growing spat between the Erdogan followers and the followers of his former allies in the Gulen movement:

Beyond such arguments that there might be a cover-up in the establishment, there are even bigger mysteries. For instance, nobody explained yet why a corpse was tied to one of the car bombs with copper wires, even though this photo was in almost all newspapers in Turkey including Hurriyet, Milliyet, Sabah and Aksam just after the bombing.

In the end, fifty people died, Turkish society is even more divided and many people don't have any trust for the official investigation. The only indisputable outcome of this process is how the crime scene became another arena in the silent fight between the Gulenist-dominated police force and the Erdoganist-dominated national intelligence service (MIT).

The other countries in Syria's a neighborhood also experience related interior trouble. In Lebanon the issue has turned bloody and the northern city of Tripoli has seen several days of now heavy fighting including mortar barrages:
Around 4:30 a.m., a 300-strong force of Salafist fighters from the mainly Sunni Bab al-Tabbaneh neighborhood, which backs the uprising in Syria, tried to launch an offensive against gunmen loyal to President Bashar Assad in the opposite area of Jabal Mohsen.

They were repelled by Lebanese soldiers, who opened fire with heavy machine guns.

The complicate relationships between various religious trends in Lebanon is well describe with this report of clashes over where a Sunni turned Shia and Hizbullah fighter who died in fighting in Qusayr should be buried.

Iraq has seen many serious bombings in recent weeks against various sides and against different population groups. These seem to be calculated to induce a new sectarian war. Reidar Visser finds that Iraq can pull back from the brink and avoid another civil war. The leader of the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) Massoud Barzani closed the border with Syria after the PYD which rules in the Kurdish parts of Syria detained some people belonging to his Kurdistan Democratic Party. In Israel a commentator warns prime minister Netanyahoo of reckless behavior especially toward the Russians. He mentions that in one of Israel's wars some planes on the other side where actually flown by Russian pilots. The writer, as I did earlier, seems to think that a further Russian intervention on the Syrian government side is possible. Should the Syrian government fall the military situation for Israel would be even more complicate.

For the Jordan king Abdullah the political problems over nearly half a million Syrian refugees are getting bigger. Jordan now closed its border for any new refugees coming from Syria. But traffic in the other direction still seem to flow:

A good summary of the rebels’ conditions for Geneva came in a telephone interview Monday with Gen. Salim Idriss, the commander of the rebels’ Supreme Military Council. He spoke from Jordan, where his forces had just received a new shipment of 35 tons of weapons from Saudi Arabia; Idriss said these weapons will help, but they aren’t advanced enough to combat Assad’s tanks and planes in Qusair.

Idriss said he would not attend the Geneva talks unless the United States and its allies establish “military balance” by giving him modern anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons. “It’s not valuable to go to negotiations when we are weak on the ground,” he said.
Rebel forces are chronically short of ammunition, Idriss said. According to one rebel source, he has privately asked the United States for 700 tons of ammunition each week over the next month to help strengthen the rebels’ hand and provide leverage before Geneva.

King Abdullah is openly arguing for negotiations over Syria. He fears that a victory of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria would cost him his throne. But one wonders how that fits with weapon deliveries through Jordan's borders. When he recently was in Washington his escorts leaked what might be future U.S. plans.
[S]ources from the king’s escorts in Washington confirmed to Al-Monitor that the Americans informed him that attempts at a peaceful political solution will not last beyond the end of this year. If these efforts were to fail, Jordanian diplomatic sources told Al-Monitor that they expect the Americans will resort to powerful military intervention in Syria, either with extensive logistical support for the armed opposition or what has been dubbed the “Serbia scenario,” in which air strikes would weaken Assad and lead to a final shift in the balance of the forces.
Having again messed up the whole neighborhood the colonial "friends of Syria", now shrunk down to a mere 11 countries, are today meeting in Jordan. This is the first time that no one from their sponsored exile Syrian opposition is attending such a meeting. Those SNC folks will meet tomorrow in Istanbul to quibble again and to receive the new orders of their colonial masters. The SNC still demands that Assad must go before they can agree to any serious negotiations. As this does not fit the current "western" plan for negotiations the group, already in terminal crisis, will fall even further apart.

I do expect that today's meeting in Jordan will here some arguing for more weapons to flow to the foreign supported insurgency in Syria during the time the sham Geneva negotiations take place. Even the German intelligence service, after predicting Assad would soon fall, now believes that the Syrian government is likely to win. Without more supplies the insurgents will continue to lose their hold on the Syrian countrysides and with each town that falls back to the government the "western" parts of the Geneva negotiations will lose leverage. But the problem of who should receive those weapons is still not solved. Even "suck on this" Thomas Friedman is now warning against arming the insurgency without further deeper thought.

Meanwhile the fighting in Syria continues. The insurgents have send some convoys from Aleppo and Homs to reinforce their colleagues in Qusayr. They threaten to wipe out Shia and Alawite towns should Qusayr fall to the government. The town is now the propaganda Schwerpunkt for both sides.

Posted by b on May 22, 2013 at 15:48 UTC | Permalink


"The recent bombing that killed 51 in the Turkish town Reyhanli received only scant coverage..."

Not at all. Or, maybe for WSJ and for its "closed minded" stuff.

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 16:16 utc | 1

Hey all. Alleged beheading of an army recruit in London. BBC has already said they shouted Alu Akbar (sorry for poor spelling). BBC has witness on air saying they were Afghans.

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 16:59 utc | 2


Dr Usama Hasan, of the counter-extremism think-tank Quilliam Foundation, tells BBC Radio 5 live that although the full details are not known, the fear is the attack was carried out by "seriously crazy militants".

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 17:21 utc | 3


Home Secretary Theresa May confirms she has been briefed by the Director General of the Security Service MI5 on the "sickening and barbaric" incident in Woolwich.


Labour leader Ed Miliband tweets: "Shocked by appalling events in Woolwich. Whole country will be horrified by what has happened."

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond will also attend Cobra meeting, says BBC's James Landale.

Commander Letchford adds: "There will continue to be an increased police presence in this area, and the surrounding areas this evening. That presence will continue as long as is needed.

"I am asking people to remain calm, and avoid unnecessary speculation. I will update you again as soon as I am in a position to do so."

Whitehall sources say it is "a fair supposition" that the Woolwich incident is a terrorist incident, reports BBC political correspondent Norman Smith.

Met Police Commander Simon Letchford confirms officers shot two men at the scene.

He said he believed "from early reports" that both men were carrying weapons.

Numerous pictures have been taken by witnesses and others who arrived on the scene after the incident.
1754: James

an eye-witness on the scene told LBC: "These two guys were crazy, they just were not there, they were just animals. They dragged the poor guy - he was obviously dead, there was no way a human could take what they did to him. They dragged him from the pavement and dumped his body in the middle of the road and left his body there."

Senior aides to Mayor of London Boris Johnson describe the Woolwich killing as a 'sickening deluded deranged act of violence', says the BBC's Robin Brant.

Senior Whitehall sources have told the BBC that the Woolwich attackers are thought to have tried to film their attack whilst shouting "Allahu Akbar" - God is Great, says political editor Nick Robinson.

The Prime Minister is expected to speak to the Home Secretary at 18:15 BST from a train to Paris about what is now being treated by government as a suspected terrorist attack, Mr Robinson says.

Witness Graham Wilders told the BBC he arrived on the scene to find a car crashed into a wall and a man on the ground.

"Two people were lying over him and I thought they were trying to resuscitate him," he said.

But Mr Wilders said he drove on to park his car, and when he returned another witness told him the two men were stabbing the man on the ground.


Prime Minister David Cameron tweets: "The killing in #Woolwich is truly shocking - I have asked the Home Secretary to chair a COBRA meeting."

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 17:23 utc | 4

sorry to hi-jack, I'm sure there'll be a thread soon.

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 17:28 utc | 5

RE: Saudi Arabia
something has been going on there for a while.. Haven't been able to figure out exactly what, but, there is some type of discord between the elite families

Not so sure SA is completely smitten with Qatari involvement

Just an observation

For those interested:

Posted by: Penny | May 22 2013 17:37 utc | 6

BBC News said at about 17:30 UK time that one of the assailants had been killed. Now they are just both injured. BBC live news feed on the website has not said one was dead. It seems there is some confusion,


Defence Secretary Phillip Hammond, Met chief Bernard Hogan Howe and London Mayor Boris Johnson have all arrived for the Cobra meeting, says the BBC's Robin Brant.


BBC correspondent Dominic Casciani tweets: "Here's the only public image of COBR(A) - Whitehall's emergency briefing room where ministers are meeting #Woolwich"

Home Secretary Theresa says in a statement: "It has been confirmed to me that a man has been brutally murdered this afternoon in South East London. Two other men were shot by armed police and they are currently receiving treatment for their injuries."

Prime Minister David Cameron is expected to give a press conference when he arrives in Paris, where he is on his way to meet French President Francois Hollande shortly.

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 17:40 utc | 7

@BillyBoy - stop the nonsense.

Some targeted killing of someone for whatever reason somewhere in London. Who cares ...

Posted by: b | May 22 2013 17:42 utc | 8

b is right. A man, possibly a soldier, is killed in London, and the world weeps.

Dozens of civilians in Syria, sometimes hundreds in Iraq, are killed every day, generally by agents of Dave "crocodile tears" Cameron, and all Whitehall applauds, sends more ammunition, sword sharpeners and SAS snipers.

War is Hell. Don't start them. News is propaganda. Get a grip.

Posted by: bevin | May 22 2013 17:50 utc | 9

So now we have the takfiri/wahabi nutjobs slaughtering people on the streets of London..These are the same people the British government is so much in love with in Syria and just today, William Hague promised them more support to kill more Syrian people.

Sometimes I wonder what it takes to become a politician in the West...Do they select the best idiot and it's just that there're no clear thinking politicians out there..The funny thing is, nothing will be learned from this and the government will continue the same policies. IDIOTS!!!!

All Wahabi/takfiris MUST be eliminated from all countries that want to prosper!!!

Posted by: Zico | May 22 2013 17:51 utc | 10

EU(SRAEL] reaching a new low with planning of label Hezbollah terrorists for their participation in Syria but the FSA have commited no terror oh no.

Posted by: Anoymous | May 22 2013 17:51 utc | 11

Ok Guys no worries. I suppose its not a bomb in Boston. I'm seeing it as part of the global picture.

Posted by: BillyBoy | May 22 2013 17:53 utc | 12

"...I suppose its not a bomb in Boston."

Wrong, "suspect" just (ostensibly) killed by FBI agent after questioning.


Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 18:28 utc | 13

oh heck, one surefire way to know b has hit a real nerve of truth is by the multiple spam diversions stacking up in the thread right off the bat.

good going b. btw, didn't see this post before noting the german intel's new ptv in the other thread this morning. it just got me wondering if this was a sudden change of heart or something they had been considering for awhile. the reason i asked is my ears perked up reading the info posted in the other thread about foriegn spies captured

and wondered if there was some truth to it. and perhaps is really wiped out more than has been reported other than just 'discovered some tunnels.' maybe they took a very serious hit.

Posted by: annie | May 22 2013 19:00 utc | 14

About murder in UK, any bets who will be blamed? I wouldnt be the least surprised if Hezbollah is accused, just in time for voting in EU to declare it terrorists organization.

Posted by: Harry | May 22 2013 19:10 utc | 15

Harry @ 15,

EU noise about blacklisting Hezbollah as terrorist organization while at the same time pushing to arm the throat-cutting, heart-eating, suicide bombing al-nusra/al-qaeda takfiris will be the lowest of lows Europe has ever been and they'll be the laughing stock of the world. It will be the final nail in their credibility coffin.

The real reason for their noise against Hezbollah is the lighting strikes Hezbollah's dealt to their "freedom fighters" in Al-Qusir. They need to be seen as doing something to help their terrorist buddies. Ignore it and move on..At the end of the war, EU influence in the ME will be almost 0.

Posted by: Zico | May 22 2013 19:16 utc | 16

See this amazing video on Russia Today. The BBC carried not a hint of the interview with a young black man (British by the sound of it), with bloodstained hands carrying a machete and a knife. The victim's body is in the middle of the street behind the young man.

'Man beheaded in suspected terrorist attack outside army barracks in London'

Posted by: William Bowles | May 22 2013 19:19 utc | 17

Hey all, b spent a considerable amount of time on a diary which spans the Middle East, with 23 links, which you won't find on Google News. The other crap you WILL find on Google News. It's his blog-site, after all, not ours.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 22 2013 19:26 utc | 18

Go here for Google News. Now back to our regularly-scheduled program.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 22 2013 19:30 utc | 19

Sorry if this gets posted multiple times:

More on RedHack:

kasamaproject DOT org/repression/4265-hackers-are-not-terrorists-hands-off-red-hack

Posted by: guest77 | May 22 2013 19:32 utc | 20


Oh yes, the insidious blog comment conspiracy.


Posted by: guest77 | May 22 2013 19:40 utc | 21

In Syria, since things are not going so well for the West, there have been new chemical weapons charges.

A senior Western diplomat said on condition of anonymity that there have been "new incidents" of chemical weapon use by Assad's government since April. He declined to elaborate.

"The Secretary-General (Ban Ki-moon) remains gravely concerned about the allegations of the use of chemical weapons," Robert Serry, the U.N. Middle East peace envoy, told the U.N. Security Council.

(Apparently Ban is so gravely concerned that he's speechless.)
There is an impasse between the US-puppet UN and Syria. The UN wants unfettered access to anywhere, and Syria wants the UN to visit only Aleppo. Of course so much time has passed that any visit to Aleppo would probably be fruitless.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 22 2013 19:41 utc | 22

Nice to see this popping up in NY Daily News comments. At least some people are paying attention.

J Fearing 14 minutes ago>/i>

This is truly horrific. But please understand - this is what the UK, US, and France are FUNDING in Syria. It is the Syrian rebels who are murdering, torturing, kidnapping, etc, not Assad's forces. THEY are fighting the SAME enemy we have. STOP sending money that DOES end up with al Qaeda and many many other Islamists extremist militants in Syria.

Posted by: guest77 | May 22 2013 19:51 utc | 23

@23 Sorry, to clarify, that was in the comments section of an article about today's London attack.

Posted by: guest77 | May 22 2013 19:52 utc | 24

On UK attack:
Here we go again, when an alleged muslim carry out a crime its "terrorism", when a white kid in america gun down people hes just called "irrational", "murderer" etc.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 22 2013 20:12 utc | 25

London attack, another national-security-state's operation!? like Boston and Reyhanli.

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 20:33 utc | 26

@26 Or maybe it's a real terrorist attack. They really do exist.

Posted by: guest77 | May 22 2013 20:57 utc | 27


Yea? Where?

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 21:12 utc | 28

this guy explains

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 21:13 utc | 29

I hope the attack in London doesn't overshadow the Redhack leak. It sure is one hell of a PR stunt for the Jihadi's. Public opinion will surely bolster against the Syrian government which is fighting these same idiots...

Regarding Turkey:
Erdogan sure has a lot of shitstorms to stomach.
Rebels photographed wearing Turkish uniforms

And the Redhack leak. I'll ask my Turkish colleague tomorrow to translate that article because all I get is gibberish with google translate. Really curious as to wether the MIT knew about it and wether or not the AQ/Raqqa story is true (this was mentioned incl link here on MoA). If this pans out then the whole Reyhanli censorship/Spin it to blame it on Assad will cause the shitstorm to reach epic proportions. I believe the censorship was also partly imposed to censor all the protests against Turkey's Syria policy which is growing more impopular by the day.

Posted by: Gehenna | May 22 2013 21:14 utc | 30

or, this one:

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 21:15 utc | 31

As it is known, Gehenna, Government(s) are those who leaks! Secondly, as it is usual as well there is nothing new in that leak. At least not for those who follow events. It seems to me there is methodology and traces of Wikileaks in it. You are asking, sort of, naive questions. Well, I guess, propaganda and journalists wouldn't exists at all if all were so obvious. The problems is even if you show the truth to the people they wouldn't trust you, that's how people are "trained". The truth doesn't matter, and people have short attention span, memory is non-existent.

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 21:29 utc | 32

"They threaten to wipe out Shia and Alawite towns should Qusayr fall to the government"

Bloomberg reported that straight up!

The article in my piece presented that in such a way as to obfuscate the obvious meaning to what was being said

"Rebel leaders have warned of sectarian revenge attacks against Shi'ites and Alawites on either side of the Syrian-Lebanese border if rebels lose Qusair."

Notice the vagueness?

Typical msm drivel. Rest assured, I clarified

Posted by: Penny | May 22 2013 21:51 utc | 33

@ neretva'43 #32
I'm referring to the RedHack leak. I can't read it so I don't know what's in it. I sure hope it exonerates Assad (face it the whole DKHCp and TKHCP or whatever just doesn't make sense). Same argument goes for the Chemical Weapons drivel you see everywhere. Assad has nothing to gain by using CW and by bombing Turkey.

The whole AQ/Raqqa story makes more sense.

As to RedHack. I made no mention who is behind it. RedHack is a known turkish group of hackers. Known for defacements of websites and cyberwarfare (if I'm not mistaken there was an online war between them and Israeli hackers during the Mavi Marmara crisis). If the MIT and police force is indeed struck by powergames between Gulenists and Erdoganists then this sure makes things more interesting.

Could even be a leak on purpose to make the whole coverup even more damaging for Erdogan.

Posted by: Gehenna | May 22 2013 22:23 utc | 34

Fethullah Gulen raises its murky head yet again. This is one of the creepier cults that I have come across. I had no idea that they have succeeded in infiltrating Turkish police forces and are major power in Turkish politics. I first met them about 10 years back when my partner was mayor of our modest burg. Gulen followers showed up and invited us to a dinner honoring some muckymuck or another. The followers all had impeccable but almost identical manners. They went on and on about peace and goodwill and charity but it was nearly impossible to get any sense of their organization. I wasn't even aware that Fethullah Gulen was the name of their supreme leader that his followers have difficulty talking about him without crying. Talk about a cult. They offered to fly us to visit Turkey but the whole thing was way too creepy to do.

It looks like they exert their influence in Turkey by using their police powers to frame critics. They also seem to have infiltrated major newspapers. It seems they don't openly own things, but their followers are everywhere. Other than supporting a mild form of Islamism it is difficult to know what their agenda is. Perhaps political power for its own sake.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 22 2013 22:31 utc | 35

The Gulen following is indeed a cult and I liken them to the Muslim brotherhood.
Overt talks of peace and democracy but they're all about the powergrabs. Gulen plays the long game.

In my country there was a scandal about a schoolboy (Atatürkce) who got expelled from his school for holding on to his beliefs (secularism/nationalism). It's a perfectly normal school but all the turkish teachers press their students to follow after hours "study" classes where they're indoctrinated into this cult (Islamists).

This sure sounds like a powerstruggle to me.

Posted by: Gehenna | May 22 2013 22:38 utc | 36


It is not in my nature to be blunt, but what you are saying is pure rubbish and fantasy. If I must to make a parallel with something it would be than "apologist" for imperials, that is blaming Zionism for mayhem in West Asia. Or, these years blaming Islam for terrorism. Instrumentalisation of religion(s) is continuous process for centuries perfected by the West since 1930s, and in post WWII/Cold War period, in particular.

To clarify, Zionists and Gulenist are just a tool in hands of imperialist, instruments of an imperial hegemony. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a "moderate" and a "jihady" Muslim, you won't hear or read that there is such and such Christian.

I do not know whether you this on purpose or not, but it is inexcusable. To say that a Muslim can came in the U.S. and set up educational chain of school just like that is more than silly. Decisive influence on internal affair of Turkey state is well known thing, and not only Turkey whole Mediterranean area and Europe. All this thing resemble on Strategy of Tension so no surprise here.

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 23:00 utc | 37

neretva'43?? I have no idea what your objection is here. Was it something I said?

Posted by: ToivoS | May 22 2013 23:06 utc | 38

OK, you post #35 is, put it modestly, fantasy!

You understand this word, fantasy. From Dictionary.

1. The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy. See Synonyms at imagination.
2. Something, such as an invention, that is a creation of the fancy.
3. A capricious or fantastic idea; a conceit.

If not clear read #37

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 22 2013 23:14 utc | 39

"To say that a Muslim can came in the U.S. and set up educational chain of school just like that is more than silly."

Provided he keeps the FBI informed of his flock's activities and gets out the vote for his local congressman, why not?

Posted by: ruralito | May 23 2013 1:22 utc | 40

Seems like Israel is reading the message prominently on display all over Syria: In an upcoming war, should the NutcaseYahoo decide, Israel will have to battle HA, Syria, and Iran - all three and all at the same time. The days of keeping it localized to Lebanon are long gone.

So Israel is back to school to re-learn math.

Posted by: MikeA | May 23 2013 2:42 utc | 41

If the Syrian gov can staunch the flow of weapons from the Jordanian side it would be a major coup. Maybe Abdullah will feed Syrian intelligence info concerning the movements of these criminals so that the Syrians can just wipe them out as they are crossing the border. If he did Abdullah wouldn't be as dum as he looks. If Syrian perspective is right about the amount of intelligence operatives captured in Qusayr that would also help the Syrians present more evidence to the international war crimes tribunal.

Posted by: Fernando | May 23 2013 2:59 utc | 42


Maybe I'm a little confused on where you stand on these issues. I need an education.

The Boston Bombings were carried out by who exactly?

The Beslan School Massacre. Who did that?

The USS Cole attack?

Today's UK attack?

Have there been false flag attack in which a sitting western government targeted random citizens of their own country? Certainly not the Reichstag, the Gliewitz (sp?) incident, the USS Maine, Operation Gladio, or the Gulf of Tonkin.

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 3:05 utc | 43

@N'43 I really can't believe that you have some sort of evidence (or even think) that every single act off terror ever committed is a false flag operation. Every single one. Lebanon Barracks Bombing. Beslan. Really?

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 3:16 utc | 44

I'll reiterate my position:

The entire Syrian crisis has been manufactured by several states with specific interests of their own. For example, the motivations of Saudi Arabia and Qatar are well known.

However, what MATTERS is the end strategic result.

That result will be that Syria and Hizballah in Lebanon have been degraded by foreign military intervention - to include the US, NATO, Israel and probably Turkey (cooperating as a NATO partner but with their own agenda) - so that their missile arsenals cannot be effectively used against Israel in an Iran war.

The ENTIRE purpose of the Syrian crisis is to produce the strategic result that Syria and Hizballah will not be effective actors in an Iran war.

Anyone who thinks Obama is not fully on board with this result is a fool. All of this nonsense about his being "unwilling" to involve the US directly in Syria is just that: nonsense. He simply does not want to be BLAMED - and thus tarnish his Nobel Peace Prize - for STARTING another war - either in Syria OR Iran. But he is PERFECTLY happy to let someone ELSE start it - and then commit US forces to it. This was true in Libya, and it will be true in Syria AND Iran.

The US and probably NATO, Israel and Turkey will very likely be bombing Syria before the end of the year. This will be followed (or concurrent with) an Israeli invasion of Lebanon via both southern Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley via Syrian territory.

After those situation have been resolved, the final push for an Iran war will begin.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2013 5:26 utc | 45

re 8 Some targeted killing of someone for whatever reason somewhere in London. Who cares ...

No. You will have seen the video, on all the news sites, with a black guy, African I think, with a butcher's cleaver in his hand, declaring that the murder was blow-back for all the Muslims killed by British soldiers. I have no doubt it is genuine. They made no attempt to escape.

What is curious is that they were then shot by the police, though not killed. The police claim they were shot at, but I think it may well soon turn out that the black guys had no firearms (you can't see such in the videos (in the plural)).

Cameron is panicked, or perhaps he sees an opportunity (to manifest patriotism). I don't think he is right. Brits are fed up with the government intervening in the Middle East, where no British interests are at risk, and this is the consequence.

Posted by: alexno | May 23 2013 5:59 utc | 46

The town is now the propaganda Schwerpunkt for both sides.

A more interesting question is why the rebels are allowing themselves to be sucked into a meat-grinder. If they had any sense, they would remain loose, in the guerilla strategy. The Syrian army, with its heavy weaponry, can reduce al-Qusayr to fine powder, without necessarily suffering too many casualties itself.

So what is there in al-Qusayr which forces the rebels to defend it? The answers I've had so far revolve mainly about it's being a transport hub. But given the number of cross-border routes between Lebanon and Syria, I find it difficult to believe that Qusayr is vital.

I would have thought there's something else, like incriminating evidence of Western involvement. But I don't know.

Posted by: alexno | May 23 2013 6:12 utc | 47

Richard Steven Hack,

What you claim may be the goal..But reality on the ground is different..And by degrading, what do you mean by that? The Syrian army has a massive stockpile of weapons, that is always replenished by Iran and Russia..They have eneough to blow up all of Israel if need be..And Hezbollah's arsenal won't be degraded.

If anything, Hezbollah's not fighting the nusra/fsa combo with missiles and rockets..Those are reserved for Israel..

Posted by: Zico | May 23 2013 6:19 utc | 48

This place has really gone downhill. Even when it was totally dominated by leftie bourgeois whitefellas, peeps would intersperse their ramblings n minor falling outs over arcane dialectic, with links to sites offering facts which tended to support their point of view.
Now all we see in here are ego-centric lunatics behaving like 7 year olds in a school yard. No evidence, just unsupported opinions.


A "Everything is a false flag conspiracy to advance the interests of zionism"

B "No it is not"

A "Yes it is"

B "Why?"

A "Cos I said so in a post further up the thread than your post. Nya Nana Nyah"

What is the purpose of this? It can't possibly convince anyone of jack shit because everything posted in the threads here seems to be just opinion based on supposition, incapable of educating & informing anyone else, or bringing them to an alternative point of view, much less stopping greedies from killing innocents.

The backlash from the two unwhite englanders in Woolwich killing the other englander - apparently a soldier, will be huge and counter productive to the fight, but even what they did (killing a self described combatant -he had a T shirt on proclaiming himself a 'hero') is more useful in advancing the cause of resistance to global capitalism, than alla the posts here proclaiming every half baked conspiracy that has ever been dreamed up, all put together.

Maybe that is the idea say the conspiracists. If that is so - why respond?

It doesn't matter what anyone claims to be the 'truth' about anything, no matter how much you may disagree with what is said, if someone has posted something without any evidence it is best ignored cause unsupported, whatever one anon claims, is worthless, no one will listens to opinions.

Unless you argue with them - then maybe some fools will take on-board what they said because your protestations will appear to give the opposing point of view validity.

Posted by: debs is dead | May 23 2013 7:05 utc | 49

@45 All well and good, but what if the Syrian Army upsets all those plans and manages to win this war by transforming itself into a Hezbollah-on-steroids?

After all, the rationale behind the Israeli invasion of Lebanon was to fracture the Lebanese state, and that ended up creating a force that seriously dented the reputation of the IDF in 2006.

The same might happen here i.e. the West might think they are reducing an already corrupt and inefficient Syrian Army, only to find that it becomes an army that has learnt not to take a backwards step when the going gets tough.

Posted by: Johnboy | May 23 2013 8:20 utc | 50

Back to Turkey. I must say the Turkish intelligence services seem to operate in a manner similar to the western intelligence outfits. They have information that Alqaeda is planning an attack, yet somehow the attack is not stopped. Where have we seen this before? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The few individuals that can see through this bullshit are just not sufficient to counter the Zionist controlled mass media who will do all they can to push the "official story". what a f..d up world we live in.

Posted by: Hilmihakim | May 23 2013 9:24 utc | 51

An observation:

When Israel bombed Syria twice (on two occasions) did "Debsisdead"
condemn the terrorist attack?
The violation of international law?
The immorality of striking ones neighbour for no reason whatsoever?
Unless I missed the comment? Which is possible? I saw nothing.
Debs is dead always 'appears' to defend the honour of Israel.
Which Debs clearly affiliates with the elitists political agenda of Zionism.
Debs engages in adhominems

"ego-centric lunatics"

"leftie bourgeois whitefellas"

And the ever present ad hominem "conspiracists"

Debs offers nothing of value. Just profanity/insults and rants.
Debs wishes to turn participants away from MoA

I have seen this type of activity play out in the moderated comments at my blog.

Just an observation

Posted by: Penny | May 23 2013 10:58 utc | 52


Fuck off Debs. It's puerile, and after 10 years, tiresome.

Posted by: DM | May 23 2013 12:04 utc | 53


The reason I press the point to get an idea of the person's worldview, one which is so common now that it is beyond my understanding. I do my best to not take on people based on their personality (except for that one retard a month or so ago), so much as samples of the thinking of different segments of the population at large.

So I asked to get to the bottom of what seemed TO ME to be such a wildly absurd statement, to see exactly what creates it - pathology, misunderstanding, my own ignorance, or what.

It certainly isn't anything personal. I just hate to see the same concepts thrown out without trying to get to the core of the thought. Many of us are here day after day - the vast majority presumably, as Walter Lipmann said, gleaning what we can from the press and constructing the rest out of our own backgrounds and stereotypes (though obviously the fact that we are here at all shows we are trying to do one step more than that).

It's just interesting to try and discover what motivates these stereotypes, that's the only reason I asked.

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 12:27 utc | 54


If the whole point of your essay was "don't feed the trolls" well I couldn't be more sympathetic, except the guy is not a troll. He's a regular participant.

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 12:42 utc | 55

Oh, looks like another American got (sub)due(d by being ground into) process(ed meat).

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 12:45 utc | 56

"debs is dead"

Thanks for that post. With you pseudo-sociological-intellectual "explanation" and vocabulary, I am not sure that even you understand what you are trying to say.

What I see is very familiar writing style which appear many times under different names. Why secrecy? Yet, your arguments are same along with those of the Government when blasting "conspiracies". So, you are asking for "evidence"! What's the problem: unable to think...criticality, or lack of healthy dose of reasoning and suspicion?

"This place has really gone downhill." Really, you are Supreme-Judge, do you have some divine touch or thought, I bow to you Supreme-Judge. Out of curiosity who is here "ego-maniac" Oooo Supreme-Judge?

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 23 2013 13:04 utc | 57

Daily Newscast of Syrian TV, the state television, wednesday 22 May 2013

Good to see that Mrs.Yerado Krikorian is back, these people really loves and fight for their nation no matter what. At least two Sana reporters has been killed by ZATO´s vermin to my knowledge, Krikorian found that her house was being used as headquarters. Nothing remained of what was – no memories, no comfort and no place to call home and so she fled to Armenia.

Posted by: Mrs.Magma | May 23 2013 13:04 utc | 58

"guest77" and "debs is dead"

Same individual? How many more nicks do you have?

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 23 2013 13:11 utc | 59

Debs, I love ya man, but if you have a problem with the quality of the commentary, then why don't you do something to change it, like comment more, instead of just popping up to complain?

Posted by: lizard | May 23 2013 13:13 utc | 60

A followup to my note on the video of the young man in Woolwich. The video has now been removed and for obvious reasons given the Mayor of London Boris Johnson's statement that the murder had nothing to do with the UK's foreign policy (of blowing up people around the planet). According to the Guardian, young man said:

“You think [British Prime Minister] David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start bussin’ our guns?”...“You think politicians are going to die? No it’s going to be the average guy, like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so you can all live in peace.”

Posted by: William Bowles | May 23 2013 13:14 utc | 61

"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

"guest77", "debs is dead" and etc. What's your "groups, parties, nations", i.e. Tribe. Given what I read from you, it is not too difficult to figure it out.

Posted by: neretva'43 | May 23 2013 13:41 utc | 62

Jesus, deb. You must miss me.

This blog is basically a euro-left version of freerepublic and infowars. That's on b.

Posted by: slothrop | May 23 2013 14:53 utc | 63

Debisdead I have seen nothing worthwhile from you in ages and the slop you do bust out with is usually worth a damn so work on YOUR game. I highly enjoy the particularities that come forth in this blog/forum. If I need to add a link I will do so or at least say where my info has come from. Good day Debs.

Posted by: Fernando | May 23 2013 15:15 utc | 64

@ neretva'43

Debs is Dead is an valued old time commentator here and his opinion is based on more experience and fact than your nutty theories.


A quite explaining State Department Background Meeting - fully committed to stay on its criminal cause.


14-year-old Citizen Journalist Killed Covering Clashes in Syria

Who the fuck gives a 14 year old kid a protection vest, a helmet and a camera to film active combat?
My hunch is that the organization behind this is U.S. financed.

Posted by: b | May 23 2013 17:24 utc | 65

Mouaz Al Khatib wants a pony:

9- The current president leaves the country along with five hundred people whom he will select along with their families and children to any other country that may choose to host them;
10- There are no legal guarantees for the current president or any of those five hundred departing because this matter should be referred to a legal council agreed upon by the Syrian people;...

Posted by: b | May 23 2013 17:26 utc | 66

Turkey confirms that the RedHack papers are genuine:

Officer in custody over leaks on Reyhanlı attack

A gendarmerie officer suspected of leaking secret documents to a Turkish hacker group has been taken into custody, ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) spokesman Hüseyin Çelik has said as the prime minister called on the media to act in a sensitive manner in such issues.

“This is not an issue of hacking,” Çelik told reporters today in Ankara. “A private from gendarmarie took photos of the documents with his mobile and sent them. This was made clearand he was detained,” he said. The case was a leaking, he confirmed.
“The [documents] were not procured by hacking the Gendarmerie General Command’s website,” Interior Minister Muammer Güler said still in Ankara yesterday. “It was determined that an identified officer at the provincial Gendarmerie command has taken a picture of these papers, which were due to be sent to the subordinate troops, and transmitted to the hackers via email. The investigation on the incident is continuing,” Güler said.

He also implied that the leaked documents were authentic. “Some of the information mentioned referred to intelligence reports on attack preparations of certain terrorist groups. There are some parts related with Reyhanlı,” Güler said. He also added that the Turkish authorities were certain that the May 11 bombings were carried out by individuals linked with the Syrian intelligence agency, the Mukhabarat, as previously stated. “We don’t have any doubt about who organized the Reyhanlı attack.”

Deputy PM Beşir Atalay confirmed that the Turkish officials already had information about al-Qaeda plans.

Posted by: b | May 23 2013 17:48 utc | 67


Lol. There's really no words for how dumb you make yourself look. Yes its another blog post conspiracy. And the tribe thing? I'm italian. And catholic. And youre apparently a racist idiot.

And you still cant provide an answer except that apparently youre a 'seer of truths' or something. Wow. Take that to court.

Sorry all. Youll here no more questions from me, n'43.

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 18:23 utc | 68

'14 year old citizen journalist'.

That's the most tortured phrasing i've heard since 'homicide bomber'.

Posted by: guest77 | May 23 2013 19:21 utc | 69

Debs, I’m sure you are not guest77.... Informed by my contact in Secret Services, ha ha. ;)

Ppl don’t like being called whitefellas I guess, again ;) Stay strong.

Posted by: Noirette | May 23 2013 19:59 utc | 70

Back on topic:

Anyone got a translation for the Turkish documents from RedHack? Too busy at work to have it translated. Does it support the initial news that MIT had info about an attack from inside Syria by an al Qaeda affiliate (AQI or al Nusra for example)?

Posted by: Gehenna | May 23 2013 20:27 utc | 71

This is what I've been looking for. An hour long film by? about? RedHack.

I vouch or endorse nothing about it. Even that it is about RedHack entirely. I saw it blogged on that Kasama site I posted earlier a few months back.

https://www.cyberguerrilla DOT org/blog/?p=10049

Posted by: guest77 | May 24 2013 0:03 utc | 72

so who is in these FSA convoys? how many are syrian? the islam of the insurgents is proving a promoter of violence and chaos, yet the religious leaders who promote it either are not aware or are happy to see the supplanting of shia by sunni

Posted by: brian | May 24 2013 0:24 utc | 73

debs is dead (49)

Now all we see in here are ego-centric lunatics behaving like 7 year olds in a school yard. No evidence, just unsupported opinions.

While I tend to agree with your "unsupported opinion" I also see it as such, as an "unsupported opinion".

Usually b (and a few others here) find the balance; they quote some news-pieces/information/declaration, reflect it and complement it with some usually well educated thoughts of their own.

Unfortunately many rather seem to just spread clips of newspieces (if they are kind. Sometimes whole lengthy articles are quoted, often enough without any company of meaningful thoughts of the quoter him/herself).
And, yes, you are right, often those quotes are simply selected and abused to lend weight to ones own musings.

But then, for fairness sake, what are the alternatives? Should they quote news-clis contradicting their views? While that might be intellectually honorable or at least amusing I'm afraid that's asking too much from most humans.
Or should they elaborate their views in a - hopefully solid - academic manner? That would doubtlessly explode the frame of this forum and also risk to kill those among us who are used to gather their world views by reading headlines, or, at the maximum teasers only.

Last but not least: Don't you consider it somewhat "ego-centric" to embed your thoughts about that matter at hand within a rough and btw. inconsistent scolding of your peers here?

Possibly you are older and/or wiser than myself but I'm not a youngster anymore myself. And I have learned again and again that pointing sofa-heroes toward a more realistic and consistent or at least interesting direction is so much more promising than telling them hardly disguised that they are incapable intellectually masturbating assholes.

felix potuit rerum causas ...

Posted by: Mr. Pragma | May 24 2013 0:53 utc | 74

Time for being candid in Syria

"Another Coalition member told AFP on condition of anonymity the Geneva 2 proposal “is the same piece of hashish the international community gives us every time. They lure us into thinking the end is nigh, and then it just continues."

I guess, Qsayr is what this "rebellion" is really about - having a strategic piese of real estate next to Hezbollah positions facing Israel. And of course Western media does not explain that but invents an "Alawite heartland" Assad is trying to withdraw to.

Posted by: somebody | May 24 2013 6:19 utc | 75

how to get the masses to support your invad Iran cause? make a film about it:
while waiting for Hollywood to make a film about Guantanamo, H is set to make yet another film on Iran....
che must be rolling in his grave: Gael Garcia Bernal, who played Che now gets to play an iranian Xpat to play in latest Hollywood film on Iran

it may sound like a prison drama...but its set during the 2009 elections, and clearly is meant to send a message to the masses

Posted by: brian | May 24 2013 8:40 utc | 76

Turkey has taken a page out of the US book, that sucking up to Saudi Arabia (and other Gulf despotic states) pays off big in foreign military sales.

Hurriyet, May 24

Syria war may bring Saudi deal for Altay

Turkish arms makers and defense officials are expecting to win more contracts from the Sunni bloc of countries, spearheaded by Saudi Arabia, as political solidarity with Turkey over the Syrian civil war deepens and could pave the way for “preferential treatment” in defense deals.

"War is a racket. . .the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." -- MajGen Smedley D. Butler, USMC, double recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor, 1939

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24 2013 12:58 utc | 77

On Reyhanli & RedHack-

Hurriyet, May 24

A gendarmerie officer suspected of leaking secret documents to a Turkish hacker group has been taken into custody. . .

RedHack leaked some documents on May 22 belonging to the Gendarmerie Intelligence Department that claimed that an anti-government group in Syria with links to al-Qaeda was planning a car bomb attack that might occur in Turkey.

“The [documents] were not procured by hacking the Gendarmerie General Command’s website,” Interior Minister Muammer Güler said still in Ankara yesterday. “It was determined that an identified officer at the provincial Gendarmerie command has taken a picture of these papers, which were due to be sent to the subordinate troops, and transmitted to the hackers via email. The investigation on the incident is continuing,” Güler said. . .

Some 18 people have been detained in the Reyhanlı investigation so far, among which 12 were arrested, while six were released pending trials.

Suspect innocent, victim of witch hunt: RedHack

Meanwhile, the hacker group said the officer detained for allegedly leaking the documents was innocent. “If that officer is the person that leaked us information, how is that we knew before them that a witch hunt was launched among the military that they would sacrifice ‘innocent’ officers?” the group said via Twitter.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24 2013 13:05 utc | 78

Geneva 2, it seems from all indications, will simply be another obvious Western failure, especially if it's forced to admit Iran.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24 2013 13:08 utc | 79

just a sidenote: Spiegel uses the term "government" in their headline. What? No more talking of "regime" or "clan"? Subtle changes in official press terminology.

Posted by: peter radiator | May 24 2013 13:54 utc | 80

The new-coming war in Syria will be on Latakia. Turkish government shut the Yayladagi border gate which is near Latakia. Latakia is an Alawite town and also ise a gate to Meiterranean for so-called rebels. Turkish plan is to ignite secterian strife around Latakia and to contribute fragmentation of Syria to Alawite, Sunni and Kurd states.

Follow Latakia.

Posted by: Erman | May 24 2013 14:05 utc | 81

@61: Here's a link to the complete Woolwich videos put out by Liveleak!

Woolwich Videos


Posted by: William Bowles | May 24 2013 16:57 utc | 82

A couple of interesting articles at Al Akhbar about Assad being pressured to make further neoliberal economic "reforms" and the role of Syrian administration defector/UN official Abdullah Dardari in pushing those changes:

A backgrounder on Dardari from 2011: Dardari: The Trojan Horse of Neoliberal Syria

Dardari's latest initiative: Future Plans for a Capitalist Syria

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | May 25 2013 23:12 utc | 83

I had never seen that Thomas Friedman "suck on this" footage from the Charlie Rose Show. Wow. That is ... demented.

Posted by: J. Bradley | May 29 2013 4:35 utc | 84

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